The Ringer NBA Show - Gilbert Arenas on Playing Against Great Defenders, Evolving Into an NBA Superstar, and the Lakers’ Overreliance on LeBron James | Real Ones

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

Logan and Raja are joined by three-time NBA all-star and cohost of the ‘No Chill’ podcast Gilbert Arenas to discuss what it was like playing against Raja and the constant push and pull between primary defenders and elite scorers (1:41). Next, they talk about how Arenas evolved from a young scorer to a superstar in the NBA, what it takes to make that transition, and how the empowerment of stars has changed over the years (12:54). Along the way, the guys talk about what Jordan Poole needs to do if he wants to successfully lead the Washington Wizards and how that compares to Arenas’s time with the team (38:20). Later, they react to the early ups and downs of the Los Angeles Lakers and why still relying on LeBron James at this point in his career is unsustainable (45:45). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (60:31). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Gilbert Arenas Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody? It's Austin Rivers from Offguard, and I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guide Pasha Giggi is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. It's Phaven. Real Ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there.

Roger, you got a little smile on your face for the next guest that we have. You know, usually when we have an NBA player, I let you hold it down. Who we got in the building, bro? Who we got in the building? Hey, man, this is one of the best scores that I ever played against.

Bag was, like, completely full, bursting from the seams. He beat us. With the Sons, we had a 17-game win-street, Logan. Like, Pete Game. We were 17-game win-street. They held us over in a snowstorm in Denver, right? like snowstorm in Denver, didn't get to play two days, flew the morning we had to play these cats on national TV.

And then they expected me to go out there and stop Agent Zero Gilbert Arenas. It wasn't happening. They broke our windstreet. Welcome to the pod, bro. Oh, thank you for having. Thank you for having. I'm like, what the fuck I'm supposed to do with that, man? I'm fresh off for three days in a hotel room and flying all day.

I don't know what to tell you. What was it like playing against Rod, Gilbert? What was it like playing against him? Man, listen, I don't think people really, like to be a real score, you had to play chess with defenders. And Raja, you have Raja Matrix, right? You have them both on the same team. And my calculation, so my algorithm on offense was their defense is set if I'm playing against Steve Nash, right? So that means the help defenders are ready, me going against Steve Nash.

So my job was to try to get Steve Nash off of me and get one of their better defenders off of me because the defense is not set to help them. Right? So that was my job. If I can get Matrix or, you know, Rajah on me, Steve Nash ain't helping. Right?

But if I keep Nash guard to me, Rajah and Matrix are in perfect defending mode to help him out. So I was already in mind, let me attack the weakest defender first to get the best defender on me so it can be more of a one-on-one. game. You know what's funny about that? And it comes to mind, man, we were in D.C. and it was a good game. They always played us well, though, because they could score with us. Like, so this was, man,

I forget what year it was, but he, Gil got exactly what he wanted, though, because he had me on it. It was late game. They're down maybe one. And I don't know if you even remember it. It kind of, but I remember it because I gave up a game when it shot. It was ISO. So, like, they were able to kind of flatten it out, and he got me in the crosshair. So there was no help. And he was able, he drove me right to like the free throw line, put the brakes on. I think I got bumped off with a little forearm. The rest didn't call it. Nah, but he cashed it out. And it's to his point. There was no help, right? Like I was primary, so there was very little help, you know, coming at that point. He was able to raise up and knock it down. But I was talk about that, Gil, like, for all of you that were

like primary world-class scores, there was a game within a game always going on. From your side, from my side. And the lonely part about it, I try to explain to Logan. Fans don't want to hear it either is I could do every single thing correct, every fucking thing on a possession correct, and still get hit in the face with a mid-range jumper.

It's just what happens. Good, you know, good offense is going to be good defense regardless. Yeah, you know, as a great defender, you know, your job is basically to make it harder. Right. You know, the real elite players, especially on offense, They're studying how they're being guarded. They're studying the best defenders, right?

So, you know, our advantage is what a defender don't know, like, how you stopped me during the season, I'm paying attention and I'm working on it all summer. So that's my advantage that I get to see all summer on how you play defense. Oh, he guarded Kobe like this. How did he shut Kobe down? Okay, so when Kobe went by him, what did he do? All right, he had Kobe pump fake.

How many times does he stay down on Kobe's pump fake, right? So you're seeing what their natural thing is, to do. Okay, he doesn't, you know, try to block the shot, right? He's not there to block a shot. He's there to stay down on it. So that means, okay, if his natural thing is I'm going to wait for the pump fig, then I'm just going to go straight up on him. Right?

And if he gets it the first time, all right, the next time, I'm going to try to give him a little hezzy, back him up a little. So we're working on that the whole summer because of how we were guarded, you know, in a game. I was watching, I think it was Kobe doing work

by Spike League. And he was talking, and then in the in the movie, Kobe was talking about how sometimes he would save maybe a free throw. He would maybe save a jumper. Maybe he wouldn't shoot a jumper in the first quarter because he would, he said, I can save that till the fourth. What kind of things, are those types of things that you're thinking about? Like maybe I need to get to the line now. My shot's not on at this point.

I need to get to the line to get my rhythm back. Like, what are you thinking throughout the game as you're trying to get your scoring rhythm? Yeah. So it's, it's, you have a first quarter game. I could end of the quarter game, right? And you have a fourth quarter game. So, you know, by the time you get to the fourth quarter, you want your defender all over the place, right?

You don't want him knowing you're going to go to this move. So if I know the fourth quarter, you know, I want to shoot the jumper. The first three quarters, I'm doing a lot of driving, you know, to make sure he's on his heels for the most part. So when I'm coming at him, I can, and I know he's going to back up, I'm going to shoot it. If I've been shooting jumpers the whole game, then more of it's going to be, the Hesi to go buy him for the fourth.

So, you know, by the time you get to the fourth, you want this game to be a little bit of a mixture. And it all depends on the defender, too. I can't do the same moves that I do on Raja that I do on this person, right? So I have to really understand how this person plays defense to know, like, all right, okay, I got this package for Raja. I got this package for the Matrix.

And then I'm sitting here playing both of them. So sometimes I do have to turn down a three because I've shot the three against this person, but I didn't shoot against them, so I got to drive, make him. You know, so it's gains within the game. Well, Logan, you know, I talk about it all the time. And, you know, on the flip side of that,

it's so fascinating, bro, because it really is, like, from an elite score to a primary defender on an elite score, that is just a, it is a battle of physical battle. It's a battle of wills. It's a battle of IQ. There's a lot going on. So my thing would be, and I talk about it a lot, to whatever ability I can convince my coach to participate in this, right?

I want to give Gil different looks. Like, first, when I guard him, I'm going to give him a different look as much as I can without getting torched, right? Like, obviously, there's some looks that he's just going to tear up. So can't give him a lot of those. But I might give him a couple, like, to his point, just to kind of bait him into that might be there. But really, it's on the coach and the defensive assignments of everybody else.

Like, he can't know what this pick and roll coverage is every single fucking time. Like, if he knows what he's getting, like, these dudes are so, like, laser sharp with the offensive skill set that I'm going to change the look up individually. But damn, I need some help from coaches and my teammates to give him something else to look at. So he doesn't, like, focusing on, okay, they're just going to keep giving me this because that's a rat. I didn't know how great of a defender you were because, you know, you guard the shooting guards. I think it was 0405. You know, I used to go to the game very early to, in Los Angeles, to play the Lakers. Yeah.

Right. You know, I just wanted to see what Kobe was working on. And he was working on the elbow pull-up jumper with his trainer. And he did a pump fake. He did a pump fake. Trainer came down, and then he went over and shot it, made it. Then spas. That's not how Roger Bill is about to play by the defense.

Oh, shit. You're not. playing them for another two weeks. And he's sitting there. He's not going to do that. He's not going to go for the pumpback. And he's just like, he's living. And I'm sitting there like,

Rasha Bell, like, and I'm sitting there, when is the game? Looking at the schedule, like, what are them? We don't have Roshabell on our team. He's preparing for you two weeks in advance. And it's like, oh, let me go ahead. This guy, I got to see how he plays Davis. This is ridiculous.

Hey, boy, I say this affectionately. Affectionately, that is some maniacal, like, when you're on that type of stuff, like, that's a wild level of preparation and just obsessiveness, man. But that's what, you know, like, that's why you are who you are. Did you have a list like that, Gilbert?

No. I didn't. I'm preparing for game by game. I mean, the only two teams, that I really was the sons that year in Portland is because of USA basketball with Dan Tony and McMillan, right? That was the only, but other than that,

I really didn't think of defenders like that, right? It was just, that was a whole other level. But it put people on my radar to like, hey, if he's really, like, he don't care about us or the next four teams, he's already on that, like, oh my God, this is how you, you prepare. Just watching greats, let you know what type of level they really are on.

And it's sometimes some of these guys are on a whole different planet. Let me, let me fire a question, Logan. I know we have not started like on script here, but like since we are in our proverbial bag, allow me. Because I often say, yeah, I often say that because of what you just kind of described, like late in my career, I had an opportunity to maybe go play for the Lakers. And, you know, financially it didn't make sense and it didn't work out. But if there was a regret, I mean, I have a few,

but one of them would have been to play with him, Kobe, that being, so that I could have seen that on a daily, to some degree, seen if I could keep up with, like, not the player, but like the work ethic to see if you could live up to the standard. Do you have a dude like that where you were like, man, I wish I would have been able to see that up close and personal on the daily? It's the same. It was him and MJ, right?

It's him and MJ. That's why when I heard that Kobe was at the gym, you know, three hours, four hours before the game, right? That's what put me in that mode. Like, but I, you know, the only time I got to see it was two times a year. Well, when I was in Golden State, it was, you know, four times a year. And then, you know, once I got to watch it, it was two times a year that I got to see it. And never disappoint, right? Like, it was like game seven before the game, right?

and I seen Steve Nash shoot before the game a few times. The most consistent was Kobe and Ray Allen. Now, think about in history. Like, I'm there from 2001 to basically to 2010, right? And Kobe every single time, even games he didn't play, and Ray Allen. Out of all the greats we had, it's like those two were consistently in the gym that early. So it's like being able to like pick his brain, watch him every single day in practice, it lets me know how as teammates you really don't capitalize on the greatness in the moment, right?

So when people are talking about, yeah, I'll spend $100,000 to work out with this guy for two weeks. And I'm like, well, when you had it for free in your locker room day in and day out, You didn't do it then. So cap. I have two reference points to you, Gil. One was when you played for Golden State, because I'm from the Bay. And so watching you played, seeing you as a young score, and then seeing that evolution to the second reference point, which is you playing against Kobe, which is my favorite

player growing up and that 60 ball that you gave him in L.A. Can you walk me through the evolution of how you. you became, because me and Roger talk about all the time on this pod, the difference between a, a young score who is, who can get buckets, but it's always, maybe in spurts or it's up and down, maybe he'll get 25 points one night and maybe he won't be as effective the next night. But what was the evolution for you to, from that score to every night, I'm going to get 25 attempts? And maybe some nights I have to get to the, the, I'm going to play against. Kobe and I got to drop 60. How do you get from Golden State to that? Studying, right? Studying film, studying history, studying the game. What makes Kobe more consistent than, you know, let's say a Ray Allen at that time, Vince Carter. What is separating these grates? And it was, who is the most consistent day in and day out, right? Who is preparing day in and day out.

Who is sacrificing day in and day out? You have NBA players who become NBA players when the season starts, meaning that when the season starts, that's when they want to party the most. I'm going to club, I'm in every city. I'm hanging out. I got the girls.

I got the drinking. And there becomes the professional. When the season starts, right, that's when they hone in. That's when the six months is locked in. where they might go out one or two times that year. You know, they probably don't drink. They probably have a diet.

They probably are resting the most. And right, it becomes this whole thing. So once you find your rhythm, once you find, you know, who you want to be from there is just, you know, dialing it in and stay in focus to what your routine is. And most people don't have, most players don't have an in-season routine. They have a summer routine. So, you know, when I figured out, everyone does the same thing in the summer, right? Everyone is running the beach and preparing and working out two times, three times. Everyone does that.

To separate yourself, it has to be during that six months during the season where, you know, you have end-season routines when everyone else doesn't. Everyone is going by, we're going to practice for an hour and a half. Some might get shots up after or before, you know, coach says, we have, you know, two days off. they really take those two days off. I had an end-season program where, you know, I'm, you know, I'm getting up in the morning, you know, I'm going to the gym working out, team practice, working out after, you know, massage, going home. What's the day in the life of an end-season Gilbert arenas?

What's that day? Like, so I'll wait. We practiced back then 11 o'clock, so I'm in the gym 8, 8.30. You know, I'm going through my full workout routine of, you know, like, skill development, not just working out. skill development. Someone on staff or you got a guy? So back then, you know, we didn't, y'all was more advanced than everybody else. I had to hire a ball, a high school kid to be my ball boy, right, the rebound for me.

So I, you know, like, you know, that first workout, all right, I'm going to work on pick and roll, rejections, you know, step back to going left, right? That would be that workout. And then I have a team workout. And then at night, it might be pick and roll threes or just, you know, pull. pulling up threes, right? And I might do that for the first week and then go from there. So I worked out three times a day, got around anywhere from 500 to 700, you know, shots up. Right. How important is that part of it, right? Because we see like, I covered the league, you know, you've been around the league your whole life. How, what is, how important is it for the,

the end season version of it when, you guys aren't, let me have players don't practice that much in terms of sanctioned practice. So you guys have to have those workouts. How important is taking those seriously, like on the off days or, you know, if you're not playing before the game and scrimaging, right? How important is that? Well, it's super, it's super important. You know, when you're someone, you know, like Gil was at that point, when you're tasked with being the focal point of an offense, you know, making sure that that skill set is sharp and always reliable, it means getting in the gym and doing it on your own. Because as you get into the meat of the season, like, you know, the overall. team, they're not keeping you in there long enough to really, you know, stay as sharp as they need to say. Can you dig what I'm saying? Now, as you get older and maybe, you know, let's say there's a player that's not really the primary focus of an offense, well, he's still going to have to do something. It might just revolve around his body a little bit more, right? Like maybe this is, you know, yoga or getting in there with, with a guy who's going to help you work on your back or whatever you have going on outside of the scope of what the team's doing. And real talk, it becomes super

And I always ask people just give it. I'm going to go back to it. It's my old tried and true. It's important to have someone in your locker room, at least it was for me, to show me what that looked like. You know, like I had, and I talk about them all the time. I had the Aaron McKees and the George Lynch's and the Eric Snows. And then, you know, maybe even more importantly, because I was a young dummy at that time. When I got to Dallas, I had Steve Nash, Dirknewitzie, Mike Finley, Nick Van Exel. I don't give a damn. I try to beat them in the gym, like on an off day, thinking I was doing something special in there with. with my soon-to-be wife shagging balls for me. We get there, and Dirk's an hour into a workout. You know, Finn, I can't even get on the basket because Finn is on the other end working. And that's critical to have people in your locker room that show you that path, right? If you haven't been, you know, raised in a basketball culture

that you already understand that. So who was yours, Gil? Who was yours? Did you have a guy? Who was your vet like that? Mark Jackson, Philly Mark Jackson. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Jack O.

Yeah. When I first got into the league, right, you know, we all, we don't know what, like, being NBA players is. We know what being great college players are. We don't know what being an NBA player is. So we're trying to figure out what is what, right? And me not playing, everything was faster, everything was stronger, everything was more athletic than my brain can really process, right? If it wasn't for Mark, I would have been overseas. And what he told me, this was like game like 2025. And I'm sitting here like, I'm in practice when I practice. And I don't get to practice. I don't get to play.

Right? I'm not doing nothing. And he was like, man, listen, I played the last 25 games of the season. I got 25 million. The coach is going to call your name one day. And right now you ain't ready for it. So I come here trying to get ready for the season because he had like a calf train. And he was like, come up.

me every morning. So six o'clock in the morning, me and him are playing half court one-on-one, full court one-on-one. We're working on moves. And he was like, listen, stop looking at everybody's greatness as greatness. What can you do against them? He said, you're faster than everyone. For point guard, you can shoot this shit out of the ball. That's your strength. So now when you watch the game, watch how you will be playing versus how everyone else is playing. Like, you know, you grab the, so we're sitting there. So we're sitting there. He's like, yeah, you know, grab the rebound. Like, look at the lane. And so now I'm, instead of watching Muki Baylock played how he's playing it, I'm watching it how I play it.

So I'm getting all these reps in without really getting reps in. So Mark Jackson made me look at the game a whole lot different versus how I was looking at it before. Everybody was great. Oh, Vince Carter. Oh, my God. I can't, you know what I mean? I was so scared.

I was so scared of. You're still a fan. You're still a fan lightweight because you're just coming in. Logan, I can't express to you, bro. like, you know, like it sounds crazy. It sounds crazy, man. But this league, it happens all the time. And forgive me for what I'm about to say, Gil, because it's, but it's real.

Like, their talents, they come into the league and they don't get the benefit of a Mark Jackson grabbing them and saying, hey, bro, you're lightweight fucking this up. And you never get to know who they are. Like, they just, they don't get raised in the right environment once they come in. They don't learn how to work the right way. They don't, they're not smart enough to do what Gil did, which was, you know, look at some of the greats and kind of. model and figure out what they're doing to be better.

And for that reason, they're in and out. And, you know, somebody's going to tell you 10 years from now, hey, there was this cat, man, we had him in training camp two years. This motherfucker could go. And you ain't never heard of it. It's crazy. It's crazy. Who was that person for you, Gil?

But I had Nick Young. I had Nick Young and I'm not a lot of- I hated him, bro. I hate it guarded him. He's so talented. I hate it. Hey, oh, man. Well, I want you to do.

to tell you Nick Young story. I got a lot of love for Nick Young. I covered the Warriors for a few years before I got to the ringer. And Nick was my first, Nick was my first year. So he was like, I don't know how you guys like look at it. But for us, it was like the one player that was kind of like the vet for the media in the locker room, right? Like this was the person that would just be cool to the young person. Like Nick was always he was always hella cool. And would every, he was also hella goofy as Gil I'm sure knows. But every before every, before every. game he would after his workout he would dribble back to the to the locker room and would just try to shake the shit out of everyone right like just would try for security guards

he was trying to make them guard him and then there was a media member every game that would try to steal the ball and he would shake the fuck out of him every time except for once where my dog Mark Bedina got him and just stripped his ass but

he was a really good like like player to media vet. I fucked with Nick Young. Nick Young was cool. Yeah, he was probably, when it came to skill, natural skill, he's probably the most skilled player I've ever played with. Right. It just, he just didn't,

it probably was a little my fault, to be honest, where when I got hurt, that's when he came in. So I wasn't on my three times a day type of vibe, right? It was more like I'm healing, you know, I'm trying to hang out for the, first time. So he caught me at the wrong time. If I had him when I was younger, you know, I would have demanded so much from him that he had no choice but to be, but to be what he's

supposed to have been. How was that time for you, man, when you, when you two are near, because you were, like, regard as one of the hardest workers on the, on the wizards in, or in the lead, damn there. Like, what, how did, what was that injury in the aftermath like that for you? Because after a certain point, you get the deal and then, like, it kind of, it kind of, it, just that you never were able to fully recover from the knee and then, you know, obviously other things happened. But how, what was that time like for you? Depressing, right? It's the, it's, you know, as athletes, we think we're Superman, right? We think we're invincible. We can't get hurt. So I didn't, I didn't think this knee was that

big of a deal. All right. They say, you know, six weeks. All right, I'm going to train. So I'm still training. I'm doing a parachute training. I didn't really understand how. important this was, you know, to my career. And, you know, me, I'm like, worst case scenario, I can just be a spot up shooter. That's still a Hall of Fame career, right? I can be a natural point guard, you know, who can't just pass the ball around and shoot threes.

But, you know, I didn't take it. I didn't take it that serious. And, you know, you can see, injury after injury, I have the injury. Like, I wish there was load management back then, where they're saying like, look, we don't need you to come on the court and perform right now. We don't need to worry about the season ticket holders. We want you for the longevity of the game.

I'd rather have you for, you know, 15, 20 years than, you know, think about the contract that's coming up. One of the things that, at least that's current, that I really wanted to ask you about, we all know about the James Harden Trade. And one of the things that, you know, we knew we were going to have you on. I kept thinking about is the evolution of, you know, just how a star moves over the, you know, the last 10, 15 years since you were in the league versus now, whereas not just James Hardin, but it's, it seems like a lot of players are, you know, throwing up a lot of trade requests.

And they have as much power, I think, as they've ever had. Where do you, where do you stand on how, how star players go about things right now? because it doesn't seem like there is players that, you know, maybe want to stay on the same team or maybe want to continue to do that. When you see how the Hardin thing has played out from Houston to Brooklyn to now, to Philly to now L.A., how do you see that evolution from when you were a star to now how they move now? I think it's always been there. It's always been there where either star player wants a trade request.

Usually it always ended back for the player because it's, oh, he's a big. bad locker room guy because, you know, there was really no social media back then. It's a little bit of everything. It's social media plus the income. The income doesn't define the player anymore. Like you're talking about like Wembe is making $55 million as a rookie, right? Before his three years is up, he would already have signed his first, you know, deal, which would be $200 million.

So in the first three years, he's unsigned $200 million worth. if he wants a trade request, there's nothing holding him back. Like, he's already set for life. So what ends up happening is when a player is unhappy, you can't use money against him, right? And Kauai Litter showed you that where he's really one of the only players, him and Kevin Durant are really the only players that just actually turned down money

and said, hey, oh, I got $130 million here. Hey, I'm going to just go to Golden State for two years, you know, $52 million. And like, wait, what? Right? Back then, back then is like, who's going to trade and sign you? So you're going to sign me to my max deal and then trade me for some things.

So now the players are like, you know, if I don't like it here, I just want to leave, right? You put so much emphasis on winning championships to seal my legacy. Now these players, that's all they think about now. They don't think about the, let me build the stats for the next five years.

and then, you know, try to figure out how to win. These kids want to win now because that's where their legacy lies. Like when Jordan Poole said, yeah, my legacy is already inked. Right, you just got into the league. You don't even have $4,000. You mean your legacy is in. Because championship ring makes it seem like that is your calling card when it's like your career is your calling card first.

And I don't think guys want their career. They want that ring first. And so now you got these guys just chasing, you know, the ring more than chasing, you know, a legacy. Is there any part of you? Because there is a part of me. I'm just going to be, I'm going to keep it a buck. I am all, look, when you're in that fraternity, right? Like, and you've been a part of it.

You're always going to feel good and support to the best you can players for having a voice. Because there was a time even before us, Gil, where they had less voice. You know, we didn't have a phenomenal voice in what was going on. but we had more than the ones that came before us, and these guys have more than we did. But there is a part of me at some point when the frequency of it, like, you know, and it's not, it's not every, it's not every player.

And I don't mean to make this pointed, but do you ever cringe at, at a request or two, like, not a good look? Like, are you full like, hey, man, fuck it. You got the leverage. Because the reality is that the leverage exists because it was collectively bargain. And you're not doing anything that you're not, like,

allowed to do, right? So, like, really, I mean, good for you. But sometimes I cringe. Sometimes I'm like, oh, shit, man, that ain't a good let. I do until I see, like, stories like Jim Jackson, right? Where, you know, he has, you know, 10 years, 12 jerseys. Like, come on. Like, you traded this man.

Like, he's one of the players that actually never got a chance to really, you know, try to, you know, make a mark on a city because everyone's putting him in trade. So it's like if the owners are, you know, if the owners are capable of just trading us anytime we want, when they're not happy with our performance, you know, a player, you know, they should have the right to say, well, I don't like the way this franchise is going. I won out.

Fair? Hey, that's fair, dog, because that's the real talk. Hey, they're not asking, they're just putting you in some shit and you are off. You know, you know what makes it kind of like the double-edged sword for media. If a player sits in the city just collecting money, you call him a loser.

Right? If he demands a trade to a winning situation, now it's, ah, you don't want to win by yourself. Like, wait, cold on, you care. Like, because in the sense, we will, I mean, if you look at it in theory, he, James Hardin is keep trying to go

to better teams to win. Right. So it can't be a selfish thought if his destination is I'm trying to win something versus keep putting me on these bottom feet and teams where I can just average 30. Fair. But what about the car? Okay, this would be my pushback though since we're in it. Here, number one.

Let's get in the bag. Let's get in the bag. No, it's good because, listen, I was a throwing piece in trades. So if anyone can relate to like, man, if I had some power, I would wield it. you know, it would have been me. I just ain't never had no damn power, so I wouldn't wielding shit. But my pushback to James would be, A, he was pretty much moving to really good teams. These were teams where his insertion into those lineups were kind of supposed to get him over the hump, and that didn't work out.

But for whatever reason. And the second part would be, like, from the player's perspective that was in my league of player, all of the wash that happens because of that, right? Like, we're just, like, you know, throw-ins in the deals. We become the carnage and the wreckage behind the man asking for the trade over and over again. And what that looks like to his brethren? Like, you know what I mean? I'm like, goddamn, James. Like, fuck, man, I ain't asked to get traded, bro.

I'm not trying to be traded five times just because you're trying to get up and out, you know? No. And, you know, like, the aftermath was if you've seen Gil's Arena with Kenya Martin, where he had tears. We're talking about Kenya Martin. where, you know, it really affected the family where, you know, they're sitting there, you know, buying season tickets, getting ready for, you know, the game. And it's like, wait, he's been what? Right.

Because of him. Oh, no. Like, you know, right? It's uprooting families, you know, that's, you know, especially right now. Everyone just got to school. Like, it is difficult. But, you know, I guess when you have that power, you will rather be the lead horse than the things that be. being carried along with it.

Right? So if he was traded somewhere else, he would be complaining about his family and uprooting and whoever came with it. So it's business. I mean, we've heard people being traded. Like they're on a team playing. And by the time they landed, they got the update.

Yeah, you've been trading now. He got to go take a... Hey, bro. I've been a part of a few of those. Some wild stories. It's a wild story. And the other part of it is, not to cut you off,

but the other part of it is, you do only get a finite amount of time to play in that league, right? Like, and, you know, I've heard general managers say, I'm going to come in, I'm going to make this in the mold that I see it, you know, working the best. And if it doesn't work, that's on me. So basically saying, I'm doing it my way. And if it doesn't work, I have no one else to blame for not getting it done, but me.

Like, I don't want to look back and say, I did it somebody else's way. And I wasn't true to myself. And so I would say that about a player, too. Like, James only has a certain amount of time to play. He's taking control of his own fucking career. Like, look, this is what I think I need to do. I only get so many years to do it. and I'm going to try to orchestrate getting to my end goal as best as I can.

And if it doesn't work out, it'll only be me to blame, but I trust that I have a vision and it'll work out. And at the end of the day, I can dig that. Yeah, it's just, it's different, right? You know, the Colby's, the Jordans, you know, before he went to Washington, the dirt, you know, the Tim Duncan's, you know, there's going to be just a few. You know, the Magic Johnson's, the Larry Burr's. There's only going to be a few, but that's what makes them top, top.

tears. They stayed with the same franchise, like, you know, their whole career, but that's the franchise also. That's not the player themselves. It's the franchise doing their part, right? You're doing your part to want to win, to keep bringing in pieces to try. Think about all the trades that just your team would have made if it was up to the players, right? Everybody at them there have championships or these competitive teams. The relationships we have with each other, like, hey, you know, I know you're making $3 million, we got three, we got

four and a half over here if you want to come to the like, and then the owner's like, ah, yeah, we don't need that player right now. Like, how do you know we need? Right, right, right. Well, I'm telling you what I mesh with, what plays well, what we need to be successful.

You know, there's, there's deal that players would have made if they had to checkbook that would have got organization championships. That's fair. What was the biggest almost in your career, Gilbert, where you almost played here, you almost played here that you thought, damn, that could have been cool.

Like the near misses on a trade or anything, maybe when you were in your prime, who do you think you could have played with, the almost? Okay, so when I was in my first free agent year, 2002, 2003, I think, is that the D-Wade? So sign in Miami, as a free agent teaming up with Duane Wade. Yeah.

And maybe later Shaq, I don't know how to numbers will work. I don't know. It would have been three years later, it would have been championship with Shaq, or four years later, been championship with Shaq. Same year going to my original destination, Denver, with Melo coming in. Oh, ooh. Yeah, with Melo coming in. And, you know, that's Kenyon Martin would have came in two years later.

Like, you know, but that's all. Like, I could have been one of the pieces that was traded for Shaq to get Shaq over there. Right. So, you know, that year when I was a free agent and signing as a free agent to the Lakers were with the play with Kobe, but that was right after the gun situation. And that you sabotage that, didn't you? You sabotage that workout, didn't you? Oh, man, I was on kill mode too.

It felt great. But out of the respect of my battles with Kobe, the player that he went against wasn't the same player. You know, I wasn't as confident. The knee wasn't as, you know, strong. And I just couldn't give him the age and zero. I was falling more back to being Gilbert Arenas, right, at that time in my career.

So it's like, yeah, this is not the product I give a soldier. Out of respect. Out of respect. Jump into the NBA action with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook. Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 money line bet. Plus, all customers get three months of NBA league pass, courtesy of Fandual when they place a $5 bet on the NBA. Tonight, I think I'm going to take Joel Embed playing the Raptors. I'm going to take the overall points for him.

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issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Limit one pass per customer. Restrictions apply. See full terms at vanduil.com slash sportsbook. NBA League Pass. Local blackout restrictions apply. You referenced Jordan Poole. I want to talk about more of the situation than the player.

You came under similar circumstances, I think. You came to the Wizards in 03 where it's, I mean, they have a new front office, so I don't want to put it too much on, you know, just being that as dire maybe is your situation. But how do you, whatever you want to say about Jordan Poole, he at least says he wants to lead this team to a whatever to heights. How do you do that as a young player, specifically in that organization? How do you, how would you approach that when you are at the bottom? Because you were a part of teams, you were helped build them with Antoine Jameson and, you know, they're using a lot of these guys. but how do you build that from the ground up

when you're with an organization historically hasn't been successful? He has the blueprint because he came from, you know, Golden State. So he knows how, you know, practices are ran. He knows what, like, Steph looks like, right? He really understands the guide

that, you know, people are comparing to Magic Johns and you know what his work ethic is. So, you know, what he stood on, the principle he stood on, for a lead guard, right? You take, so you have a mode, you have a foundation to take, right? Now you just imply that to your everyday practice. Now, when it comes to just the game itself, the way he's playing a game, he's playing it from a four-time champion now versus, you know, the 2004-5, you know,

Steph, where Steph wasn't doing a turnaround shot. He wasn't taking the silly shots to make sports in her. And I think that's where Jordan Poole is falling right now. It's like you want to be more of a highlight reel in a gimmick, right? Instead of being like a star player, right? A star player, 95% of your game is basic basketball, just get in your buckets, playing the right way. And when you're on fire, that's when you, you know, hype up the crowd. But for the most part, you're making just great plays.

Right now he's 95 to 5. 95 is he's trying to entertain and trying to get the woo's and eyes. And, you know, that's the gimmick player. Yeah, that's an interesting point. And I had never really looked at it from that perspective. But it makes a ton of sense, right? Like he, you know, you're essentially saying instead of modeling himself after, after Steph and picking a good place on Steph's arc as a superstar to insert himself like earlier on the arc,

He didn't skip all of that, and he's inserting himself right into the finished product. And that would be something if I were a teammate that I would look at as kind of flaw, kind of some bullshit. You know what I mean? Because you know, like I know, we see through that shit real quick. Like, I have a lot of respect for you if you come in there, you know, on the humble with winning, you know, in your DNA because you've been there. And you approach it. Like, listen, this is work, fellas.

Like, we're going to let me show you how to get from here to there. But you can't come in and say, yo, I'm already there. Let me just start catting off and acting a fool. And to some degree, I can dig what you're saying there. And I got a question for you, Gil, because it was never really my, you know, in high school and college, yes, I was a primary score.

But in a situation like that where you're coming in, there are other people on that team that feel fully capable in their ability to score the ball. And you know, like I know, it's not always an easy dynamic amongst young teams to figure out who is going to be the primary. Like, people can talk that shit, but everybody who can score thinks they should score.

You know what I'm saying? So how did you, like, and it could be as simple as I just bust everybody's ass every day in practice, but what did that look like, that pathway to like, yo, I'm here, I can score. I know some of you want to score too. Like, no, fuck, look, I am the engine that makes this shit run. Everybody understands that now.

Now we can fill in around, you know, the edges with supplementary pieces. Everyone can play a different role, but I got you all. What did that look like? So with me going to Washington, you know, there's Larry Hughes already there.

We got Jerry Stackhouse there, right? You know, he averaged 20 with Jordan, and him and Jordan was, they didn't think he could have the backseat in Jordan, so we know what I mean? Right.

So, and then we have, you know, Kwame Brown there, right? Who's, you know, he's supposed to be the emerge of when Jordan left. So I got, I got to D.C. the middle August, call Larry,

I'm coming to town, let's start hooping, right? So when you're talking about earning respect, right? It has to be in the work ethic first, right? It's like being a show pony, right? You know, it's like when you're getting ready to race your car, you rubbing the engine up first,

like, oh shit, what he got under the hood? So when I first got there, it was conditioning for me. So before we played pickup, right, I'm running the bleachers, the top tier bleachers. I'm running full then coming down to play, right? You know, oh, I got this dude picking up full court, letting Jerry Stackhouse and them see, yo, like, I'm here to, like, win.

I'm here to be a part of it after running the bleachers up and down. So they're seeing this dude, like, because if you can't beat me in practice, then we're going to have, you know what I mean? So I just stood on that. I'm going to let my work ethic for the next month push me in front of all the other guys. So, you know, forget my pay, judge me on my work ethic. So from there, it just gained the confidence of, you know, Larry Hughes and Jerry Stackhouse. So, you know, when we first started, like, it was no, like, it was no class for me,

but the young guys, you know, me, Kwame Brown, you know, Jerry, it was one of them things. And then, you know, we had a conversation with Jerry was basically like, yo, you know, you're not going to go, you know, he was talking to one other players. You're not going to go from five to 30 points, right? You went from, you averaged five last year. You're going to average about seven, nine this year. And that right there, that says basically Gil, you have the green light.

And once I got the green light from, you know, you know, the alpha on the team, I just took off. And then from there, it was just making sure when they decided to judge me, they're judging me that, you know, dude comes to practice. Every single day, hard, he's going hard, he this, this, this. So when they be like, yo, GA passed the ball or that rep, my work ethic stood tall. And I don't think a lot of people understand that.

Like, your work ethic has to stand first. So when people want to challenge it, it's, ah, you know, he comes in early, leaves late, like, I can't, you know what I mean? I can't really. Logan, you remember when you asked me, this was maybe four pods ago, how Jordan Poole had to approach that when he went there to lead that? Do you remember what I said? It was almost verbatim what Gil just told you he did when he went there to kind of grab the reins of that. Come in on the humble. It's a lot of work. Just watch what I do. Yeah. Just watch. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. I think also about the wizard's tenure of your career as just even defined by the battles you have with LeBron.

right, where, you know, you play against this young guy that is, that is, you know, coming of age, as you're coming of age, you guys are the stars of the league. What does it seem like for you to see kind of how far he's taking it? And, you know, you've also seen him, you guys have close and you always, you know, you reference, you know, his work ethic in L.A. And just how he's kind of evolved there. But what is the biggest evolution you've seen from the LeBron that you played against to LeBron he has become now? if someone asked me, if I'd never seen LeBron the last 19 years, and I seen him the first time I seen him when I came to the condo with Larry, he would play the same 20 years later.

From that first introduction of LeBron, I would be like, I can see that. When I first walked in, right, he had the four TVs with the TiVo inside of him, and it looked like a sports bar where he's watching everything. High school basketball, girls, basketball, soccer. Like, it was a machine-like mind where he's watching everything. And that's what we lost to.

We lost to someone who was just smarter than us, right? So now when you fast forward and look at him now, it's a guy who studied history, right? I understood where, all right, where did Jordan fall, where did Shaq? How did this guy play 20 years? What was he doing? You know, I'm pretty sure he's the type that will have called Kareem. Hey, when did you start taking yoga?

Oh, 38. I'm going to start doing it at 34, right? Right, that was, that's the type of guy that he is where he's trying to figure out all of people who lasted this long, understanding longevity, right? Going to the gym at 1.30 to prepare for the game at 7.30. right so it was just it was it's the preparation that he took it serious he he went into it i need to play 20 years and that's what he accomplished i mean let's let's stay on the lakers then because uh as as great as great as he is um and is remarkable i mean last night was incredible right

like somebody in that like who does that it's incredible shit um i am still of the mindset that you can't ask him to be on that at that pace for that many minutes over the course of a season and expect him to be able to bring you home at the end of a season. It's just it's never been done before. And if anyone could, it would be him. I concede that. But why risk that, right? So then it brings me to like the supporting cast and, you know, I'm on AD a lot.

And I am. And listen, look, I'm not saying that he's not a phenomenal player. I guess I would be asking you, what do you think they need to do? Is it a move? Is it simply, do you believe in AD to be the one that can carry that in a way that will allow them to win a championship? If LeBron isn't able to kind of, let's say he's playing 60 games or 65 games, and it's not an every night thing in the playoffs where you're going to get that performance. Is AD capable?

Do we need another piece there? What is Gil think? Yes, I think as a Laker fan, I think that the Lakers organization is delusional. And the delusion is... Our producers are Laker fans. Relax. I'm a Laker fan, but that's what makes me say it, that the delusion of what you're watching, right, We know how he's playing, right?

But to go into the free agent as LeBron's the number one option was the mistake that you're making, right? You should say, all right, mentally, LeBron is 38, right? He's 38, 39. We need someone to come in as our first to second option, right? We need our Jason Tatum. We need our Karee, right? That should have been a big move for them, knowing that we do have LeBron James,

but if you take him out of the equation, how good is the team? Because in a sense, if you're relying on a 38, 39-year-old, you are delusional. I don't care what he's looking like. He's 38, 39. Man, I saw him at Sacramento.

He looked every bit of 39. He still, he looks, I mean, he's still LeBron. But he's still, he's old. He is old. I know, but that's what I'm saying. It's like, so that's what, if we're relying on 39 years old, then something is wrong with us as an organization. We should have made all the right moves to get someone in here who can carry the team knowing that we got LeBron. We do have LeBron.

And I think we went into a saying, we have LeBron. We don't need anybody else. Yeah, you need that insurance. You need that damn insurance policy. You need an insurance policy. And I think while we get on AD is we know he's where Joel and Bede and Yokech and Greek the freak is. We know that's the level you're on. The difference is they are playing every goddamn game.

They're there for their team. You speak at Rogers' language right now. I don't even know. Right now, what's stopping you from averaging 32, 31, and 20? Him? They're going to the NBA besides yourself. Yeah, him. Jesse, he's the one stopping it.

Yes. Look at them empty eggs over there, man. Come on. Coughing them things up so we can get the moving, man. We put LeBron. This is what we, if we take LeBron James and put him in Philly with Maxie and Jolambi, that's what the lake, that's what we should be looking like on this side.

Yeah. Just get it done, AD. Like if AD turns into the number one option where he's like, yo, I'm 33 and 12, and we have Bilo playing the way he's playing. LeBron 20. We're good. Correct.

Because we still got LeBron. But the problem is 80 is taking the backseat of LeBron, which kind of like, come on, he's 38, man. Just let you get out the way, brother. I got this. That, look, that, so, you know, as we work our way through the weeds on that, right? Like that, I think, is one of the most underrated parts of it.

And it's not touched on enough. LeBron thought that torch was going to be passed, right? It didn't get passed. Now, this is going to sound crazy, but part of that is LeBron's fault. Not because of anything he did, but because of the reverence that I think that, like, an AD has for LeBron. Can you dig what I'm saying? Like, he's still, you know, they're boys, but I think still kind of probably in big bro. that's big bro. Do you know what I mean?

And that's what I touch on with AD. It's not a skill set thing. It's a mentality thing. Because dudes who will take that torch and run with that shit, they don't have a big bro. Yeah. They are big bro. They are Debo. So they're like, yo, get the fuck out of the way, LeBron. Like, sit down.

I mean, they're Kyrie. They're Kyrie in 2017-2018, 2018. Straight up. Straight up. And so like that's the thing, right? Like you, you know, that's the crazy part about the makeup of the individual. in that situation might prevent him from fully saying, yo, this is mine.

And LeBron is okay with this being mine because LeBron knows it needs to be mine. And I don't think he's at the, for whatever reason, he ain't on that. But to your point that it always comes with chaos though, right? If you want to, if you want to, there's no passing, no torches. Torches get taken. They don't get passed.

Like the same with, like you had that with Kyrie a few years ago and you had that with Kobe with Kobe and Shaq where he's like, nah, man, this is my team. I want this right here and it causes friction. I don't see a world where you just pass batons. Even like in San Antonio Kauai, they had trouble doing that. You know, like it's hard. You can't pass it because it has to be earned.

And when you feel you earn something, you're not asking for it. Right? You're not asking. Even though the guy's like, here you go, that has to be earned. Just give it. Yeah, just give it to it. I know you hold it, but let me. Like, I can grab it softly or just go ahead and give it to me.

Like, that makes like, oh, okay, you want to be a big boy now. All right, let's say it. Right? And I don't think that's where they are. Even no matter how many conversations you have, that's not something that can be talked about. Like, nobody realized when I was in Golden State, the last four or five minutes, I was a guy taking all the shots. I was the fourth, fifth option on the team.

the last five minutes, I'm the number one option. There was no conversation. This is what I'm going to do, right? If you can do it better than me, ask for the ball at the end. And then I had to prove points where I wouldn't shoot the whole game. Now we down. Now, hey, G, A, you going to shoot? Ah, yep, there we go.

We need you. There we go. That's all you had to say. Right? And from there, so when, you know, I left and then Antoine, came back, there was no conversation on who was the number one option. Right? There was none.

You know, he just won six men in a year. He's the max player. He's coming here. There's no conversation. We already know. It's already been established two years prior when we was at Golden State together. I think you're both right, but I don't think LeBron fights him for it. Can you dig what I'm saying?

Like, Shack wasn't ready to. LeBron understands in a way that, that, I mean, because he's one of the greatest of all time and he's played longer than it. Like he, he understands his time. So I don't think he fights him for it. But to the point you all made, AD got to take the shit. Like, LeBron's got to see you want the motherfucker before he says, I'll give it to you. Yeah, I mean, he's trying to give it to him without even seeing you want the motherfucker.

He's like here. He's like, please take it. Even with Kyrie. Like, look, I don't think people understand how, like, smart LeBron is. Like, he understands what he can do and what others can do. Like, there was no fight over the ball. with Kyrie. He understood, hey, I'm going to do my thing

first three quarters. There was a game in San Antonio their first year together. You remember that, you know? There was a game where they went to San Antonio and Cairo had like a 50 ball. Damn, they won the game by himself. It was like a double over. That was the time where

that give me that fucking baton game. I was like, no, this is mine. Thank you. And then he understood what his talent is. Oh, you're a finisher. Here you go. And that's how they played the game. And that's what made them so successful. Last question for you before we get to ruin it a week.

Who's the contender we're not talking about right now? Who's the one that we probably should be getting a little more pub that we're not giving at this moment? When it comes to contenders, there's only usually like four or five. There's really not a whole list you're going to have, we have Boston, Milwaukee. You have, I mean, if Lakers can get there, you have Lakers, sons, and, you have Lakers, sons, and Denver. Those are your,

your, your five, um, a dark horse. Ah. I mean, it's, you know,

it's like a dark horse out of the group. Ah, can. I mean, you know, Clippers. I mean, but I mean,

once that trade happened, everybody's, oh, clippers might be the favorite. So, I don't think so about, I don't think so on the clippers. And,

man, I don't see it. I don't see it happening. I don't know if they, have the health and nor like also a bigger thing that I was talking about earlier with someone you just need continuity to win a championship right like they're going to be learning on the fly with each other um kawai kawai and pg have not shown to be healthy you have to integrate another person that has to have the ball at all times of james hardin i just don't see that happening in time

whereas a denver who was just a well-oiled machine then you have uh phoenix who pretty who knows each other and then you have all the teams are the ones Boston, who the two Js, I just don't, I just know you have to win championships with continuity and I just don't think the kill-uppers will have that. Now, you know, like, that's the surprise, though. This is not February.

This is not February. This is like. It's a good point. I've never seen a trade this early in a season, you know, right out of training camp, right? So when you're talking about only three to four games in, right? Other than the last time James Hardin got traded. You know, we're talking about three to four games into the season.

So, you know, they're going to build this chemistry, especially since they are friends from summer, from childhood. If James Harden decides to be a shooting guard, like I need to be, you know, clay type, a guy who can spot up, a guy who can come off screens, pin downs. little Ray Allen style type of game, just make sure I'm not holding the ball as much.

They actually will be scary because even without the two that usually get hurt, James Hardin and Westbrook is good enough to hold down the fort while those guys are down. So the fact that you got four guys that can really put the ball in the basket, that can really just take over games, that's unheard of, especially since they're all young, in a sense.

You know, it's not like when GP and Carmelon went to the Lakers in 04 where, you know, they're about two years earlier than that, but they're almost there. They're almost there. I mean, Kauai has the body of like a 45-year-old man at this point. I mean, he has no knees at this point. I don't know. We'll see, Gil. We'll see.

They can do it, though. They probably can. And I'm not a Clipper fan, so I don't really want to see it. We'll see. Let's get to, before we get you out of here, it's Thursday, so let's get to a real one of the week

where we shout out of the person entity organization that won the week. I'm going to start, and then we'll go to Ron, and then we'll go to Gil. I'm going to start off, and we'll go with Bruce Bochy of the manager of Texas Rangers.

I remember when he was at, with the San Francisco Giants, won all them chips, and I did it in the American League. So shout out to Bruce Bochie. Who you got, Roger? Man, that was so superficial, though, bro.

You tell me something about Bruce Bowie. Gocee. Give me some. He was a manager of the San Francisco Giants. This guy. It's a slow week. It's a slow week. It's a slow week.

All right, listen, because it's that slow, and I'm just super proud, I'm going to give my baby girl, Kya Kroy, the real one of the week. She is on her first travel soccer team. She's playing seven you. And they gave out the first gold jersey award of the season for this team, which goes to like coachability, hustle, hard work, overall attitude. And she earned the first one of the season for the Western Select Girls 7 and 8 U soccer. So real one of the week, Kyakroy.

Oh, let's fucking go. Yep. Who's your real one of the week, Gil? Real one of the week. As a Laker fan, it's only been two games, but I might have to give it to DeAngelo Russell. I mean, it's of the week, Gil. It's up the week. The A ice veins.

He's been thinking about the last time we seen him in the playoffs last year, you know, he, you know, he gave us O and four and three and two. So the fact that he's been 20 plus for the last. That's all I need from Delo. Just give me back ice veins. And that's what I'm giving. That's who I got to be proud of. I'm not even going to lie. That takes all.

88 step it up. That takes all pressure from LeBron. For sure. You know what? I was, I was, I was superficial my ruin of the week. I'm not replacing it, but I do need to give a shout out. Shout out Cheesecake Factory, because the name

has been gone through the mud over the last week and a half. And it is endured. It is endured. So shout out to Cheesecake Factory. Hey, take the sweat off of Cheesecake Factory's name and go get you some cheesecake. Stop playing. If we go and pay like that, then I have to give it up the Joe Smith wife.

Hey. Oh, shit. Man, okay. Whatever brings in the basement, I guess. Oh, Jesus. Anyway, you can check out Gil. You can check out Gil on Gilzerita. No chill with Gilpot.

Hey, shout out to what y'all doing, Gil Zarita. Brahma fed. Shout out to Josiah. Shout out to Lexi. Shout out to all the homies. We'll have you on again soon. bro. I love what you're doing over there, man. Can you tell all the viewers when we can see it?

I think it's Tuesday to Fridays, but I want to make sure that you guys are. Monday through Thursday, 1130 a.m. Pacific time. So, you know, right now we're just trying to, you know, be an athlete and, you know, get our voice across and, you know, give our little funny takes. That's what's up. For sure, man. We'll have you on again soon, man.

Thanks so much. That was another edition of Real Ones, C, U.S. you guys on Monday with Howard, motherfucking Beck. Talk to y'all soon. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and president select states. FanDuel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement

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