The Ringer NBA Show - Golden State Comes Back, and a Cavs–Warriors Finals (Again) | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 278)

Episode Date: May 29, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor discuss the Golden State Warriors’ comeback win in Game 7 of the Western Conference finals (00:30) before previewing another Finals matchup between them and the Cleveland Cavaliers (50:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ringer NBA show, I'm Chris Farnan. Joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.A. Kevin O'Combe, aka Kevin O'Climber. Kevin O'Brien. Verno, what's going on, man. What a fun night.

Unbelievably, for the fourth consecutive year, we are going to see the Warriors and the Cavs. And those that scoff at the NBA and say, ah, we already know the way it's going to end up. going to be the Warriors versus the Cavs. Unfortunately, they remain correct. At least it took two game sevens for us to get to the Warriors and the Cavs.

Someone tweeted me right before we got on, Chris. They said, Cavs Warriors 4 is going to be direct to DVD trash. And that's what it could be. It really could be because Golden States just on another level than Cleveland is. We'll see. You never know. Yeah, no, obviously we'll end up talking about that at the end. first we got to get through tonight's game, which was for the first half of that game,

I really thought, boy, the Warriors are screwing around here. They're doing the hole. We'll turn it on when we want to turn it on. And this is a dangerous game to play, especially in a game seven. But, you know, tricks on me, right? Because they got out hustled. They got muscled. You know, that end of the, you know, everything about that first.

half was told in the last four and a half seconds where Eric Gordon just straight line drived all the way to the basket and unimpeded and makes a layup as they go to halftime. And then everybody in the free world is saying, watch out. Here comes the third quarter warriors. And sure enough, that third quarter, unfortunately for the Rockets told the story as they got outscored 33 to 15. Absolutely. And on the other end of it, Houston never got going on the offensive.

end of the floor at all for the entire game. Seven of 44 from three. 15.9%. They didn't shoot worse than 20% once this entire season, Chris. So for Houston, it's like, yeah, they had the effort in the first half, which, you know, it's not like their effort

faded away in the second half, but they never got going on offense like Golden State that they were tremendous and both into the floor. Whereas with Houston, shot, they just had their worst night of the season shooting the ball. Well, and listen, it's game seven. it's nerves, it's tired legs.

I mean, there's a lot of reasons why that could be there. Definitely tired legs. Yeah. That's one thing for sure. I mean, there's a lot of reasons. Listen, and there is nobody to calm you down and say, hey, cut this crap out. I mean, I, you know, I tweeted out in the middle of that third quarter. This is where losing Paul is so crucial because, you know, Hardin's not that dogmatic personality.

He's not settling anybody down. He's part of the problem. And I thought you saw it with the Celtics last night, actually. You know, Horford would be the veteran guy, but he's not a, he's not like your, your vocal leader, let's just say. And he also doesn't have the ball every time he comes down, right? Unfortunately, Terry Rozier had the ball every time. Oh, geez.

Right. You see that possession of Roseer dribbled the ball up, then brought it under the rim, and then dribbled to the corner three and turn around and pulled him off the dribble. Just awful. awful play. Worse than Trevor Areza tonight. And this is the moment after a couple of empty possessions where Chris Paul settles you down and gets you into a pick and roll.

It gets you into something, right? Throws a lob to Capella, whatever it may be. You just got to, you've got to stop the wave. But because once it, you got to at least get to the free throw line. But like not only did they get hit by the wave, they could not stop it. And that has been the story with the Warriors. I mean, that is, I've talked time and time again about it's almost impossible to beat them,

especially four out of seven games. But if you have a chance, that's the way. And instead, the rockets, I thought, just totally played into it by continuing to take the long threes, which they're not making, which as you tweeted out, are leading to long rebounds. and now you're in scramble mode and you're not able to set up your defense and you're just getting bombed out. I mean, it was just, I don't know.

You know, I was thinking about this tonight while I watching the game, Chris. You know, we've talked about it before how Houston they trust the math, right? We've discussed that before and it's worked in their favor for a lot over the course of the season and tonight they did that.

They just as easily could have gotten hot at the end of that game and flip the script and won it. They could have. Like, they could have gotten hot. That just didn't happen tonight. And I was just thinking to myself tonight, it would have been nice to have another type of option to turn to a more diverse offense where maybe you post-harden when shots aren't falling just to give a different wrinkle, a different look. And that would completely

deviate from their system, which has been unbelievable the entire year. But to have the extra look, maybe it would have been nice for a night like this when the shots, like you said, just, were not falling from anybody and fatigue was clearly a factor for harden off the dribble especially with that stepback which has been lethal for him this season he can't hit that with tired legs and everybody else with trevor a reason it's just unexplainable but nobody was hitting shots in that team and it would have been nice maybe to have something a little bit different to turn to well the other thing is this Kevin this has been the overwhelming criticism of of this style of play right There's a randomness that occurs with it.

And beyond that, it's that when it comes down to you having to adjust and move to something, like if they're not falling, like, and I get it, right? Well, if the threes would have fallen. But it's not just tonight. They only got held to under five or to under 100 points, I think 10 times the entire season. The Warriors just held them to under 100. five times. So it's not just tonight throughout this entire series. Now, their defense was so good. And Houston, I will freely admit, I did not expect that they would have the defensive

prowess or the ability to smash Golden State on the boards as they did in the first half of this game tonight in order to stick around with them. But, I mean, we can say, like, that's been the criticism of Dan Tony. And that's been the criticism of this stuff. is that when it gets to the highest level that it can fail you and you can't just put up 100 every night like you do throughout the regular season when somebody's seeing you, you know, on a Tuesday night in Orlando or whatever on a second half of a back to back. I mean, and it's impressive that they did it 72 times. But, I mean, I think it stands to reason if they got held to under 100, five different times,

it didn't work the same way. That's true, Chris. But then again, and you could also say Chris Paul missed game six and game seven. And they still really pushed Golden State totally healthy aside from Andre Ugadala. Right. So you could say that maybe having Chris Paul will be a completely different story where Hardin doesn't have as much on his plate, where they do have that stabilizing force because not having CP3 cannot go overlooked here. Their system still put them in a game seven against the team that everybody says has

said ever since July 4th, 2016 is the inevitable NBA champion, their systems still put them in the spot. So despite the criticisms that I had that you have, it's still got them right here, right? This is where you wanted to be. There's no doubt this is exactly where you wanted to be. And they forced the seventh game and they lost Chris Paul and we'll never know, right? What would have happened if Chris Paul was in the lineup? And I don't think the Iguodala thing could just be brushed over. Now, they have more stars for sure.

But Iguodala has been essential to their success over the course of the last couple of years. And that was a big loss for them. Like, he impacts them a great deal. And in fact, impacts them a massive deal as we put an eye forward towards the NBA finals. Because he is clearly the best option to throw out there against LeBron James. If LeBron is able to do the impossible, right? which who knows you never know

but I'm just saying the Iguidal thing is no small thing and then what was weird is watching this game play out listen my criticisms of Hardin have been severe and here we go it's a third quarter

this is when you have to have your superstar show up and Curry did and Hardin didn't it's a simple that when it was time when it was go time and you're sitting there with a lead on your home court in a game seven he did less than nothing i mean he was a negative

in that third quarter where courage is bombing him out of the building that happened yeah you know i think with james hardin again it's i do wonder how much if it is conditioning he shot the ball poorly the entire series like let's go game by game here five for nine in the first game great then three for 15, two for six, three for 12, 0 for 11, 4 for 12, 2 for 13, that's all from three point range, just incredibly poor the entire series aside from game one. And you've hit on this in the past, Chris, where he's been the game, the game one superstar. And then after that, his numbers have declined. I wonder how much of this is due to the demand Mike Dan Tony's system puts on the point guard with the ball handling duties and everything else that comes

with attacking the rim, drawing fouls, stepping back, pulling up from three. There's so much physical and mental demand for that position where taking those threes that he had just so successfully utilized over his career, especially under Dan Tony, that falls off a cliff naturally when you're tired. And if you're Houston looking forward next season, you need to find a way to make sure that he's in peak condition when it comes to these games in late May. I don't think you can play him 36 minutes, 37 minutes per game over the course of the season. I think maybe you need to rest him quite a bit more during the year.

And then in the playoffs, you can finally unleash him when he has fresher legs rather than incredibly tired ones as we've seen the last two playoffs with him. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know if I buy the fatigue thing with him. It's got to be. Is it at least a factor though, you think? You know what I mean? it's not just a choke job it's it he's not choking he's kind of joking he's kind of joke he's kind of joking

yeah he's got to I mean with the I mean listen the game's in the balance the guy's doing nothing okay so this gets into the the the mental toughness discussion right where you have to have the mental toughness to fight through fatigue right you know the most mentally tough players don't feel fatigue. They battle through it. And they don't let it diminish their skills. Well, you got to fight through the fatigue and carry Marcus Morris into the third row, too.

Yeah. I mean, obviously LeBron creates an unrealistic expectation. I saw my buddy, I saw my buddy Ryan Rosillo post that today. And I was like, you know what, you got a point of there.

But here's the thing. The exploits of James Hardin have been rather documented over several years. And if you're watching the game, I don't care he ended up with 32 points. He took 29 shots to get it. He's 2 of 13. And when that game, when they needed him, they needed to stop the bleeding, he wasn't there. He wasn't there.

Now, the other thing is this. Paul accentuated a bit of an issue in that they're short in terms of bodies. Gordon is the one that theoretically should be coming off your bench and be able to run your second unit and give you some pop off that bench. I mean, they got three points. off of their bench tonight. Three. And that included minutes from Ryan Anderson

and Joe Johnson who like never play. Ryan Anderson was awful. Awful. I mean, oh my good. Like he was worth experimenting with, I think,

but eight minutes like was eight too long. Like the second he went in there, he was getting exploited. It was like, that's enough. Take him out of here. I can't look at this anymore. Boy,

I tell you this, what do you do with, I mean, is there anybody that would take that contract? Can you imagine that you pay and Ryan Anderson is going to cost you Clint Capella maybe? I mean, this is the tough part. You know, everybody like, oh, LeBron goes to Houston. LeBron will go there.

It's like, well, yeah, good luck. Good luck dumping Ryan Anderson. Right. You're going to have to give him up. And then everything else, like it would have to be a sign and trade with Cleveland, not to get into this, but it would have to be a sign and trade with Cleveland. I would think where you're unloading Ryan Anderson and then other salaries, probably Eric Gordon. and then you have to give up your entire future

and then you also have to hope Cleveland is willing to do it because they would need to sign off on it as well and maybe they'd rather just let LeBron walk them take on Ryan Anderson. Yeah, you know, they needed some surprising efforts tonight out of some guys clearly without Chris Paul and they got it, man, out of Capella, because he was 9 to 10 from the field, 20 points, 9 rebounds, you know, and he's fighting his heart out for sure.

sure in the first half of that game. It was pretty involved in the offense. Outside of just his offensive rebounding, the thing was what you don't expect is an absolute nothing for Marisa. I mean, 0 of 12, 0 of 9 from 3, 0.0 points is just unbelievable. Unbelievable. It like cancels out the good performance. performances you got because you got your role you got a couple of your role guys to step up

Tucker got your 14 Capella got you 20 and obviously I think we're talking low end on a reason if he gets you 10 guess what you lost by nine right he just gave you nothing I mean he gave you nothing tonight zero points which is I mean in 42 minutes to get zero is pretty hard to pull off, honestly. And I'm a big or Risa fan, but this one's going to haunt him for a long time. I mean, him and Terry Rosier

and got to have a chat after their games. The Terry, listen, Terry Rozier, turning into a pumpkin, hurt my soul. It really, I was all in. I was in on scary Terry, Kevin, and all the people like, trade Kyrie,

get Terry Roseir, trade Kyrie. Well, I tell you this, you better. You better reconsider your whole Marcus Smart. I'd rather have Terry than Marcus Smart thought. No way. No way. Fine.

No, you're changing that. No, no. Terry has better, we're not going to get into that. In a way, they shouldn't be compared. Marcus Smart is like a weird Ford who happens to pass. Rozier is more of a traditional point card. But anyway, Trevor. Areza, 0 for 12 tonight, it's disappointing because, you know, you have him as a 3 and

D player and he's out there to try and make life hard on Kevin Durant, right? Who scored 34 points on 21 shots for tonight with Aresa is one of his primary defenders. And he just shoots over guys, no matter who's defending him. So you would hope he's at least just making things tough on Katie, which he does. He's a good defender still. But 0 for 12 from 3, 0 for 9 from 3, worse shooting performance. for him of the entire season, probably of his entire career. Just really, really sad if you're a Rockets fan because he's been so good all year for them.

And what a sour ending. Yeah, that was rough for him for sure. And again, I mean, I talked to you about keeping the scores low. That was my opinion on the way you got to play this team. And that first half was perfect. They hold the Warriors to 43. They grabbed 26 rebounds in the first half to only. 17 for the Warriors.

They forced 10 turnovers. They end up with 51 field goal attempts to the Warriors 40. And they go to the line more. Like everything about it was perfect. And it was the game plan that the teams that have had success against the Warriors in the past have been able to pull off, whether it was Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Memphis, whoever has been able to do it. And I'm like, geez, if they could, I mean, now, even the first four minutes of the third

quarter because that's where I was thinking they better watch out. They didn't, they didn't, that lead didn't evaporate really quickly. It was really that last eight minutes of that quarter because I recall tweeting out at one point, they got to do this for 20 more minutes. And then they just fell apart where they're just chucking threes and then they let the wave hit them and that was all she wrote. But I mean, I still thought they were playing. I mean, I was, I would have been over the moon.

if I'm them with the way they had that game going until they just lost their mind and we saw it with the Celtics last night and we saw I think that is you know it befell both teams these last two nights where it's like I don't know I mean I think I thought Brad Stevens should have done it

I thought Danone you should have done it I get the whole process I get the trust the math all this stuff you know take the ball to the friggin' hole get in the bonus and fracture this game because we're just missing every three and they're getting runouts and we have no chance in scramble mode defending them and it was you know what we see i think you and i have watched

80 we've watched over 80 miss threes the last two nights oh ugly ugly but but but you know it depends on the quality of the look like you like you said in that third quarter they were taking some just horrific shots, just chucking the ball up early in the clock when they, when they would have been better served seeking out higher quality shots, like with Boston, Terry Rose here with a shot I mentioned earlier where he dribbled the ball up to court, then into the corner and for some godforsaken reason jacked it up, just an horrific shot. And there are a couple other instances with Boston like that as well, as it was with Houston. But I do think Houston got a lot of quality looks as well.

It's not like you just stop taking a freeze. But this is what I super hated about it. The method of which they had built their lead and had been putting the Warriors down was by once they started jacking all those threes, it took the offensive

rebounding out of play. And Capella and Tucker both were just shoving guys out of the way and getting the ball. I mean, hell, they had what, I think Tucker had eight offensive rebounds. was just pushing KD out of the way and grabbing the ball. And same thing goes with Capella.

And so that made it even worse. Now, obviously, the energy level of the Warriors went up. But still, once you start taking all those long shots and they're all clanking off, you're taking that advantage away because you are, I mean, they were just out musseling the Warriors for the better part of whatever, 30 minutes of that game. And instead, you know, I mean, like you said. There's no excuse for missing 37 threes.

That's just, that's outrageous. 37. Come on. I mean, I guess that's the way you play. That's the way you play. And even when it got to the fourth quarter, when it got, I still thought when the going got tough, you saw this is going to be interesting too. If the calves can get them into this kind of game, they were just throwing it to KD and he was going to work, isolation.

that whole like fourth quarter it seemed like didn't it chris yeah you're kind of right in a way so in the first half 48% of their shots came within eight feet of the rim and the second half 41.5% of them did so they took fewer shots with you got to go back to the play-by-play because at least five of those are eric gordon layups at the end of the game when the game's okay so now you want me to take a garbage time i'm just saying you know you know you know that the thing was already decided by the time they went to the rim again. Fair. Fair.

But it's, you could all, if you're a Rockets fan, you're shouting in your car right now, like, they also weren't getting a whistle. Oh, they weren't getting the whistle. If you're a Rockets fan, that's what you're shouting right now. I'm just saying, I'm just putting that out there. Did you think the officials

put a major role in this game? And for what it's worth, before garbage time, so I just put this with three minutes left. They still took 42% other shots within eight feet of the rim in the second half. So it's still quite a lot. Did you think that the refs played a role in this game?

The significant role. The refs were certainly noticeable over the course of the game, yes. In whose favor? In Golden State? Yeah, I mean, it doesn't change. It didn't change the fact Houston shot 7 of 44 from 3. That's why they lost. But

it was noticeable at times. It was noticeable when Clay Thompson was on the bench by the time the first quarter breaks. I know. Exactly. I agree.

I agree. I'm just saying they were noticeable. You're just not going to say which way? In the second half, it was more noticeable. One way. In the first half, it was more noticeable the other way. You thought Houston got a bad whistle? No.

Golden State got a better whistle. I thought. That's what I'm saying. Aside from Clay Thompson getting, racking up three files early, I thought, There were times in the second half where just Houston was able to get a call. Well, there were certainly a couple of those.

To be clear, it's not why they lost. Seven for 44 from three is why they lost. No. Well, and obviously you saw the hardened stuff, right? Like the foul hunting, he just doesn't get the calls as much. And he should have got there's at least two that he should have gotten. I even I admit that. I detest the foul hunting.

But there's at least two that he probably should have gotten. Like the three point shot that he hit and it should have been a four point play like that one. That's one of the rip through. I know it's a shooting motion. That one was at least close to me. There were a couple. I don't get that rule. I don't get it.

And I also don't get the kicking rule that like sometimes when the defender kicks his leg out. Like in the last, the Boston Cleveland series, they called one against Marcus Morris when he clearly was not kicking. his legs. They called an offensive file. And then the next game, they called one on the defense when I thought Jalen Brown, I believe it was, clearly was kicking his leg out. Because apparently, according to Steve Javvy, referee propagandists, said, oh, they made contact at the hip. It's just a whack rule. I don't understand it. It's like, to me, it's like the, it's basketball's version of the NFL catch rule, which is a much bigger issue. Well, and I will say this. I'll say, I'll say the bad calls against Houston were much more noticeable ones.

And part of that's right. Part of that's the crowd going crazy and you're getting the replays of them more. It seemed, right? Like you didn't see Golden State going to the line all that much in the second half. That was not a game that was decided at the free throw line. But when they were going to the basket, there's the one where Gordon, I mean, he got fouled by two guys. I mean, he got killed. You know what I mean?

And he didn't get the call. And there were others. There were some that were pretty egregious that they didn't get. But I honestly, I don't think Houston lost because of the officials. I thought they lost because in the third quarter, they just lost their minds and allowed that wave to hit them, which you know is coming. And instead of slowing that thing down, they just kept jacking early threes, letting the long rebounds go, and then Steph heat it up, and then Hardin was the invisible man once again

when you needed them most. And so now it's Golden State versus, oh, well, let me let's, before we wrap this one up, you think it's different if Paul plays? Obviously, it's different. Let me just ask you the real question. Do you think they win if Paul plays? I would lean yes however 7 for 44 from 3 and a lot of those were open looks I'm not sure much would change if Paul were delivering those

shots but maybe it would be different if he were the one taking them right well I also don't think I also don't think those happen Paul is the guy that goes and yells like slow to ask Stop, right? He turns it into, he will bang it into the ground a lot more.

And if River Reza's missed every three, like, I don't think Chris is, especially in the game seven, the guy's going, just keep on shooting. Just keep on shooting. Like, he's like, what are you doing? Give me the ball, right? I'm going to go slow this thing down, run a pick and roll with a capella and throw him a lob. And we're going to get a bucket here because we got to stop this bleeding. And so I actually do think that if now you never know the way it's going to play out. And so maybe you could argue they dicked around because they knew Paul wasn't in the game.

But if they dicked around like they did tonight and Chris would have played, I absolutely think Houston could have beat him. Because that Warriors team played arrogant. And it served them. I mean, what can you say? They end up winning the game by nine points, right? they did exactly what they probably thought they were going to do, which was turn it on when it's time to turn it on.

But I think they would have had a lot harder time. And I don't know if they would have been able to turn it on like that if Chris is in the game. Because he was the one, you remember? He had played a pretty crappy, the home game there in Houston, where he was pretty crappy in the first half. And then that second half, it was just like, we're not losing tonight. And he was pumping up hard and remember that? That was, what was that game?

Yeah. Was that five? It might have been five. I believe so, yes. Yeah. Might have been five. It's a shame we didn't get to see it. It really is.

Yeah, it was the one that he got hurt. It was the one that he got hurt at the end. But, I mean, he had really, you know, he put that team on his back and just said, we're not losing tonight. And they could have used that boy. I think they could have caught him, actually. And so now, before we get into,

what the final sets up. What if Houston? Is this a one-year deal? Because obviously you know, roster's going to look a little different. Everybody thinks there was a wink-wink that went on with Chris Paul or else he wouldn't have gone there in the first place.

And so how do you run it back? It's tough. You just lose Capella? You just lose Capella? I do wonder what not. they'd be willing to go to with Clint Capella. I mean, the market is tough to gauge this summer. Obviously, all it takes is one team to give a hell of a contract to a guy.

But I wonder, what's the line Houston would be willing to cross with Capella? Or would they be willing to just let him walk and go with a younger option, whether it's somebody they trade in for into the draft or that's signing a veteran free agent or maybe Joe Chi their Chinese big man prospect is maybe they secretly feel he'll be ready and willing to take on a bigger role. Maybe they don't

think it's necessary to pay a big man that much money, but it's certainly going to be interesting this summer to see what happens, especially if LeBron were a guy that is interested in Houston. I'm not, I don't know how realistic that is on paper, but Daryl Morey is one of the best

general managers at creating cap space and I'm sure he'd figure out a way to make it happen. But it's going to be an interesting summer for Houston, that's for sure. I think changes do need to be made. Really? Yeah. You think changes do need to be made? Little tweaks, sure.

Yeah. I think you can... I think we just both kind of agreed that if Chris Paul's there, they could have won that game. Yeah, but you also have a situation here where Chris Paul is a free agent. Trevor O'Reese is a free agent. Clint Capelle is a free agent. Luke Bobham. Mutay is a free agent. Gerald Green's a free agent.

A bunch of guys in this team are entering free agency. So if they're all back, maybe yeah, you run it back. But there's a chance. One of them walks. So yeah, changes will have to happen. Yeah. Obviously, that is, boy, a better reason. I hopes that's not his last game in a rocket's uniform. You'd like to be able to get some level of redemption there. I know you've always been a big Capella fan.

Do you think, what are the chances? Capella, obviously you benefit by playing with Hardin and Paul, right? But is he a guy that you think is capable of even more than what he did there? Because I think it's fair to say, does he go the way of Sir Jabaka, right? Almost, I don't want to say never to be heard from again, but obviously the opinion was much greater when he was playing with Russ and KD. I think we would admit that, right? people had a very high opinion of Abba.

He's just far past his prime. No, no, no, but people had a very high opinion of it. And by the way, Abaka should not be way past his prime. I don't understand why he would be. What is the guy's, it's not like he's 40 years old. I don't know. Hell, maybe he is. Oh, is that a thing?

Is that a thing? He's 28. He should be in his prime. No comment. Oh, great. I mean, he's going to, it should be. theoretically you should be in your prime when you're 28. Or if you're LeBron 35 or whatever the hell, 33.

No comments. Okay. Well, here's the thing with Capella. Do you think if somebody spends, what's, I mean, you think Capella gets like these $20 million contracts that are being, that have been doled out? You think he gets, I mean, what's Abaka get? He gets 12, 12 and a half.

No, he gets more than that now. What was his new contract? Capella got a big contract this last year, right? That when they signed him to the extension of Toronto, which I think he's a 20, 21, 20, something like that. Or maybe 22, but I think that might be his average annual. Yeah, 20, yeah, it goes 20, 21.6, 23. God, 23.2 in 1920.

Yuck. Oh, boy. Oh, no. It was that. Okay. Oh, no, but this is a good question. It was three years 64. Would you give Capella 364?

If I'm a team that needs a younger center and has a guy like Hardin, like a Devin Booker type, you know, then sure. I think so. Yeah. Hell no. 364 for a center? No. And I like it.

And I like Capella a lot. I like Capella a lot. if you're Phoenix maybe don't you think you can find Clint Capella you think he's that special that you can't find you know what I mean

I'm just saying Jordan Bell played in game seven right like you could probably find a real you could probably find a guy that could finish a lot of James Hardin and Chris Paul Lobbs and when I just when I say Phoenix I mean like in a vacuum

they're gonna take Gianjory Aiton with the number one picking on a likelihood so you're probably then you're not going to spend that money on a center. But I mean, in a vacuum, that's the type of team that I would be talking about that would make some sense. But in the real world, I'm not sure which team out there makes sense. Maybe, maybe if you're a team like Dallas, maybe, would you like your rim running centers out there? If you're able to create a cap space to make an offer sheet, maybe a team like that makes some sense. Well, and obviously that would, their defense was much, much better and especially, as we said,

in the playoffs. Capela was a force of nature in the Utah series and you know he's the back line of a defense that was that was good this year and so they that is a big replace I mean I don't want to pay him 20 million bucks but I'm also aware that that may be the cost of doing business if you want to keep a guy like that and he greatly affects their defense I mean the way he in a pick and roll league I will say this I mean I don't, with as many guys that get overpaid, at least he does totally essential things, which is he can rebound,

he can protect the rim, and most importantly, you can switch, you know, guards onto him and like, I watched a whole series where Joe Ingalls and Donovan Mitchell and everybody else on that jazz team could not take him off the dribble,

which that's just like otherworldly stuff. If you've got a big, that when they switch on to you, it's still a big problem. But geez, I don't know. I don't know. 20 million bucks.

It's going to be tough. It's a tough choice either way because of how important to the team that he is, but also the fact that he's a center who at times against Golden State, not other teams, but against Golden State, you're better with him off the floor than you are with him on.

It's a tough, tough riddle for Houston. and every other team for that matter. Yeah, because it's really just, because it's really just them too, right? You saw the series before against Utah where he's so useful because they've got a guy that plays close to the rim. And so he gets to stay close to the rim.

But when Draymond is like playing at the top of the key half the time, he can pull you away from the basket. And so, I don't know, the Warriors, the Warriors, much like LeBron, like make us question, and everything. And the Warriors, you know, this is four straight years. And we sit there and go, well, if you're not good enough to beat the Warriors, or if you're not good enough to beat LeBron, you better change some stuff.

And so that's the position Houston's now in. What about Paul? What do you do with him? You give him a three-year deal? Ideally. I think ideally it's going to be a three-year deal for him. He turned down the max. full five. He turned it down, right? Well, I mean, he wanted the five-year supermax. And they were going to give it to him. And that's scary. The fact that he'd be 38 years old and he's a guy that always seems to get hurt in the playoffs. That's scary. Like if you're Houston, you know that's going to be a bad deal by the end of it. You're paying for the first two, three years, essentially. And maybe that's worth it if you get a title out of it. But if you don't,

Those last two years are going to be scary. All right. And so now we look ahead. And in fact, we'll do that right after these words. Today's Ringer MBA show brought to you by Microsoft Teams. Microsoft Teams is your hub for teamwork in Office 365. With so much to look after, wouldn't it be great if there was just one place to look? Teams is that single workplace where you can work, share, and connect with the people in your work life.

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All right, Kevin, you and I didn't really get to speak much on the Celtics game against the Cavaliers, but LeBron James was heroic. The Celtics were a clank fest in that game. A lot of guys that had been very, very good for them, not the least of which was. Terry Rozier, the guy with the ball in his hands, an awful lot. were not nearly as good. And in fact, the antithesis of good in their biggest game of the season. And we saw LeBron get there once again.

I will tell you, I really thought the Celtics were going to win game seven. I did. I mean, they were 10 and 0 at home so far in these playoffs. And I thought it was just a collection of, you know, some of all parts thing. I'm aware they don't have LeBron and you're going up against him in the game seven. but I thought you would, you know, he had like a 42 point triple double in one of the game, in like game two and they lost, right?

So I kind of thought we would get this monster game out of LeBron, which we did, and that the Cavs would lose because of the way their role players had played in Boston thus far. So I freely admit, I kind of thought Boston was going to win that game. But here we are. once again with LeBron James in the finals. Oh, the other thing, by the way, is I am a believer that, you know, the defense will show up when it matters most. And frankly, would they give up last night?

They gave up 87. I mean, you have to win a game that you give up 87 points. You have to. You've got to win that game. I mean, they had given up 89 on average in their home games. and they gave up less than that last night in a game 7 and still lost. And so I guess I was kind of right about the defense. But here's the thing, Cleveland's defense, which by all the metrics is abysmal or has been abysmal.

You know, they play a game 7 and the other team score 79. We can make all the excuses in the world and say that's just because they missed 100 threes, but that happened. and so you know yeah i i think you know with last night's game chris it's nice that this young celtics team without their two of their three best players and gordon heyward and kaird irving went all the way to game seven against lebron james the greatest player of this generation and maybe the greatest ever um when it's all said and done it's really a remarkable story that this team did that um that's but it's but it also doesn't change the fact that it it was a significant missed opportunity for this team.

The difference between Boston's horrific shooting night, seven for 39, and Houston's tonight, seven for 44, is that Houston force-fed the ball to their two best players, James Hard and Eric Gordon. Boston didn't. Jason,

Jason Tatum was ready to take on that role, but instead what happened was Terry Rozier just jacking up, countless, countless bad three-point shots early in the clock, poor contested mid-range twos. What happened was Marcus Smart just having the freedom to launch shots at will one for 10 from the floor. What happened was Jalen Brown, who had a horrific shooting night, just allowed to take tough contested shots, instead of feeding the ball and getting the hell out of the way from the best player on that team,

that's Jason Tatum. And that's where I think the missed opportunity was for that team. Maybe they still would have lost anyway. Maybe Cleveland would have doubled and put pressure on Tatum and he would have turned the ball over. But I think Tatum would have given that team a better chance down that stretch. And we didn't get an opportunity to see that. And great story for Boston this year. And their future is as bright as any team in the entire league,

but they also missed a chance to go to the finals. Yeah. In a night where Cleveland, yes, they held them the 79, but that was largely because of Boston just ice cold from three. They missed some wide open looks at that game. And I think they underutilized Tatum. It felt like it could have been and should have been a 40-point night for him. Well, and this is the thing they are alike in is that I do think that they're missing that guy.

You know, Tatum has to be that guy, but he's a rookie. He's just doing, he's going through all this for the first time. And so he's not going to be the, this is what we're doing or give me the damn ball. Right. Of course not. And that's exactly like a guy that can control the game. That's what superstars can do. When push comes to shove, and that's where Chris Paul was missed so badly in that Rockets,

when Sting started to fall apart in that third quarter, he didn't allow it to in their game five there. And I don't think he would have allowed it to happen tonight. And the Celtics, you know, it's the downside of the Brad Stevens empowerment, right? and you know, I mean, I follow Brad Stevens to the abyss, but... Me as well. But, I mean, the downside to the empowerment is Terry Rozier taking 10 threes and everybody feeling like they can take any kind of shot. Because, you know, most teams have a guy that will, like, can stop it and say, hey, you dumbasses. Like, no, right?

Like, that's exactly what LeBron does. It's exactly what Chris Paul does. It's exactly what so many teams over the years have that guy. And with young teams, many times that guy has to be the coach. And in the course of action, when everything's so stressful and you've got all these nerves and everything else, you just felt like how many of their threes could be transcribed as panic threes? It's just like, this thing's slipping away. we need to take a three.

And so they did. And it was just all out of sorts. And they were never able to calm down. Well, you know, when it comes to those panic threes, I refer to this play earlier. But Boston trailed by five with 90 seconds to go. And Roseir dribbled the ball up the court. He penetrated the lane. He was closed off by Tristan Thompson.

Then he dribbled it into the corner, the right corner. And he launched a three contested by Thompson with 15 seconds to go on the shot clock. It was just a, actually, I believe it was contested by Jeff Green, I want to say. But either way, just one of those weird shots that you're referring to, Chris, where it's like, get your offense going. Well, and the Tatum thing is, you know this. This will be the last year that he does not feel like he can go to the huddle and say, give me the ball. I don't know. I disagree.

Because Kylie Irving and Gordon Hayward come back next year. Oh, yeah. That's fair. That's fair. That's fair. he'll still be the he'll still be a young guy on that team yeah i wasn't thinking ahead to i don't know danny age may coldly trade both of them away what if gary would have gordon a word gets traded before he ever plays with the celtic

you can never rule anything out with danny age that's for sure chris um but but it's going to be interesting to see what does happen with boston having so many guys on that team who can can score um that's where like the brad stevens empowerment we're talking about one of the downsides of it when Terry Rozier and Marcus Morris and Marcus Smart are allowed to do whatever the hell they want. Well, next year, it'll be a little bit different when the five guys closing games is Al Horford, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, Kyrie Irving, and Gordon Hayward. It'd be a hell of a lot different next season when the options and the equal opportunity system are a lot stronger. And it'll be interesting to see what becomes of Tatum because it appears he is, listen, when you,

you when you do what he did in the most high leverage situations possible, he is very, very close to like big time stardom, obviously. Listen, there's a lot of stars that don't come up as big as that kid did over and over again. So he is so close to stardom and what happens, right? I mean, he had this season where it was like he started off like a house of fire, then it kind a then it slowed down a little bit. But then by the playoffs, this kid was just out of his mind. As, you know, for many games, him, sometimes Brown, were like the leading shot takers.

And so what happens, development-wise, with him? Because it certainly looked like he could be the man on a team, right? But you know, Kyrie went there to be the man. so that's going to be fascinating you see how that plays out I know kev that you uh you wanted to see that ball go to jason tatum more than scary terry down the stretch

and that seems totally logical i mean you know i've loved jason taitem pre-draft man i mean it was nice to see him blossom into the star that that he's become as a young player a young rising star but there's still there's still more there was more in last science game It's like with Utah, I thought they really empowered Donovan Mitchell to beat the man.

He averaged 22 shots per game in the playoffs. Tatum averaged 13.7. And look, Tatum was on a better overall team with more options. Options on the team. But I would have been nice in that game seven just to see him empowered to take 20 plus shots like Mitchell was for a large part of the playoffs for the jazz. Earlier in the episode, we talked about what. becomes of Houston and now we pivot to not only this matchup between the Cavs and the Warriors but then like what becomes based upon what takes place in it right um you know does does lebron

look at this now and go why would i leave the east right why would i leave the east we'll figure it out i'm still i'm getting to the finals every single year and look at this lot around me. And I'm still in the finals. So why am I going to go and try to, why am I going to try to go out west where everybody else is already? And I know you always have supreme confidence in yourself. But if you're looking for that opportunity to have a team that you can get to the

finals and then whatever happens happens, I don't know. Where are you at on LeBron? in Cleveland. I've always thought he was going to go somewhere else. But now after getting there again, do you think it matters how this series goes? Like if they get bombed out, then he'll for sure leave or if they play it close. He's more willing to stay. What do you think? It's not about getting to the finals. It's about winning it. So if the best opportunity is in the West, then it's in the West.

If the best opportunity is in the East, then it's in the East. It's about winning it, not just getting there. but you got to get there to win it and you know you're always there fair and until you're not you wouldn't be there if Carrie Irving and Gordon Hayward there for Boston right I don't know he probably thinks he was

he probably thinks he probably does right he probably thinks he can win the Atlanta Hawks right and who are we to say he hey and who are we to say he couldn't I would not rule it out. That's what damn short. That would have been a funny exercise. What Eastern team could we put?

He couldn't do it with Brooklyn. I don't know. Well, well, that's the way I look at it is. You'd have Russell. You'd have, you'd have Damare Carroll,

you'd have Spencer Dinwiddie. I don't know. I mean, when you look at the, if you took the rest of the Cavs roster, you'd just take LeBron out of it. Who were they better? better than.

Yeah. I've done this exercise a couple of times during the season. It's like if you either clone LeBron James and put him on all 30 teams, how do they rank? Or if you just eliminate LeBron off the calves. No, I'm just saying the east. I'm just saying the east. I'm just saying the east. If you just put him on that team, do we think his supporting cast is worse with anybody else?

it's hard Atlanta I mean Atlanta doesn't I mean Kevin loves a good Kevin loves a good player Yeah well I wasn't counting him Because he didn't play last night

Yeah that's fair that's fair So so like minus Kevin Love Because he wasn't about Yeah what he did What he won game seven with last night Jeff Green Tristan Thompson George Hill J.R. Smith Larry Nance

Jordan Clark and Kyle Corver Let me address this Because I got chirped about this Because I said earlier If Lebron James well, won the title with the team with Jeff Green on it, then I would elevate him over Jordan. Let me just say, I said win the title, not get to the finals. The guy gets the finals.

He could have four rags playing with him and he'd get to the finals. It's winning it. And they're obviously really up against it against Golden State. You know, you do have to wonder, this was a great story where the Celtics. they were also a team that's led by like rookies and second year guys and Toronto was a joke I think that's fair to say and and Philadelphia was doing it for the first time I mean we knew this going in it was because you know stars went west and don't forget Indiana but this is partly a function of the east in fact in large matter of function I'm not trying to take away from LeBron James accomplishments so let me just get the stands off of me before but Come on, the East sucked. And so... Oh, come on.

It did. It was terrible. What? What are he talking about? Indiana took him to seven games. They were a tough, gritty team. All right. Now you're messing with me.

I mean, Toronto won 59 games, Kevin. I saw them. I saw them in the playoffs. Their third best player, Serge Abaka. Get out of my face. Here's what we know. They're in the... And by the way, Cleveland was a 50-win team this.

year. That's how many games they won this year. It's just a function of LeBron, like, continues to prove he can do it with anything. And I also think, you know, the, the teams that he went up against this year were, there were teams led by very young players. There's a lot of awesome young players in the East, unless you want to throw Toronto in there, because obviously they did beat Toronto. But, now, Now they face Golden State. And I'll say this. Everybody in the free world thinks they're going to get trucked, right? Do you? You think they're going to get trucked? Yeah, four or five. Probably five.

The only... I mean, this is just an early, you know, prediction, by the way. No, I know. The only thing... I'm going to dive deep into it, but I would think five. The only thing I could see is that the warriors have this real propensity for screwing around. and so can they get them into this like you remember the old it's almost like the team the year that uh that uh that uh they lost kevin love because of the olinic thing and they lost uh kairi irving to the blown out kneecap that year and it was like lebron and delavadova and the rest of that group and they just i mean he went absolutely supernova and they just turned it into bonafi bonifova bonifova qualified caveman ball.

I think that's what they, you know, that's what they're going to try to do. I just don't know if they can. Good luck. Well, and the Warriors, they have screwed around. You will admit,

right? They've screwed around. They have been, and I just don't think the calves are the team that can make them pay for it. The rockets were. Rockets with Paul were. We've also seen what happens

when Golden State stop screwing around. Like, that could also happen in the finals. where they just say, we're done screwing around. We're going to go hard from start to finish now. I thought they were going to do that against Houston. They wanted to.

I thought so, too. You remember? They might not have it in their identity to do that. But I'm like, I just mean that they could. Yeah, but I mean, that that was the thing. It was like, oh, everybody's talking up Houston. Everybody's going to talk about talking up Houston. We're going to just bomb them out.

And they didn't bomb them out. They won their, they won game one and then the lost game two. And they, right? And then even tonight, sometimes it happens during the course of the series, sometimes it happens during the course of the game. And Houston was the one team that could honestly make them pay for it. I just don't think Cleveland can. But you know how I know this? I saw earlier tonight, one of these gambling Twitter feeds that I follow said something like they were 0 and 7 against the spread in the first half.

And you know they're like always favored, right? But that they were like 0 and 7 against the spread. And that like throughout these playoffs, they're like, it was some, I mean, I'm going to get the number wrong. But it was something crazy like 5, 17, and 1 or something in the first half. And so that just tells you, like they don't take the first half all that seriously. And Chris Paul's Rockets were the one team that actually made them pay for doing that. The other teams couldn't. But they were down at half.

they've been down at half a lot of times and so I just I don't know if Cleveland I don't know if they got the firepower to be able to do it they just have to they they would have to win these like I don't even know like I guess

they hold them to 91 points to pray they could get to 92 because I will say the Warriors defense was super impressive if they just held the Rockets to under 100, what, five times? It's going to be a tough hill to climb for Cleveland, put it that way.

It's going to be quite a challenge against this Golden State roster. I mean, you think about some of the... Golden State has three better offensive players than Boston has on their entire roster. And Kevin Durant, Clay Thompson, and Stefan Curry. And even against Boston, there were moments where

Cleveland had a hard time defending. A rookie, a 21-year-old in Jalen Brown, Al Horford. Never mind when you're going against Kevin Durant, one of the greatest isolation scorers and greatest three-point scores ever. Stefan Kari, one of the most unique, weirdest three-point shooters in history. And then Clay Thompson, one of the greatest three-point shooters we've ever seen in the game, it's going to be a challenge for Cleveland. I mean, I would, listen, we'll obviously talk a lot about the NBA finals.

would, I'd start love with Tristan and I would just try to hammer the offensive glass and just try to get as many extra possessions as I can against them. And Tristan Thompson and Kevin Love would both have to have big, big rebounding series. That's like, you know, listen, I mean, I'm grasping at straws here. I'm just saying if you could play them, if you could drag that game totally into the mud and you, you know, can play the if you miss it we get the ball if you miss it we get the ball thing maybe maybe we could get some competitive games if not it will be a sixth finals loss for lebron and it'll be three out of four titles for the warriors and here we are that's likely shocking kevin warriors calves. How shocking.

Number four. I was trying to see, I was trying to see if there's a, before we get out of here, if there was a line that has already been posted for the game, and I will, for the series, I'm going to imagine that this is an insanely

prohibitive favorite. The first one, I don't see it yet. I don't see the, all I see is game one. Oh, Jesus. They've already posted game one, which is Thursday. Yep. Golden State minus 12.

Okay. Oh my. They're going to be favorite in every game. Yes, they're going to be favored in every game. Mine is 12. I got a double-digit friggin final. That was the wild thing about tonight's game. Golden State was favored by six and a half, I think it was, over Houston, on the road against a 65 win team with one of the best offenses and defenses in the game.

that was a that was a that that line would have been i bet that line would have been closer to three if paul was there paul was there golden state would have still been favored but it would have been a tighter line for sure i think i think paul would probably be worth at least four so i mean there's probably would have been a possession line and he should have been worth more than that honestly after watching them go seven for a thousand from three all right kevin NBA finals are said it's going to be start by the next time we speak, we'll have already had a couple of finals games that we have digested and here's

hoping for some competition that you or I don't seem to be counting on all that much. Let's get a good series. Please. Please, basketball gods. If not, we'll just start talking about the draft. Hey, man.

Hey, hey, that's my favorite time in the year. Draft Free Agency Summer League. Let's do it. All right. Kevin, I'll catch up with you next week. Thanks, brother. Have a go on, Chris. All right, man. That's going to do it for another Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing.

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