The Ringer NBA Show - Gordon’s 0.1-Second Miracle Dunk Saves Denver. Plus, a Steph Classic and Offseason War Rooms for the Grizzlies and Heat. | Group Chat

Episode Date: April 27, 2025

Justin, Rob and Wos are back to recap Saturday nights games. They start with the thrilling Nuggets win over the Clippers that culminated with Aaron Gordon's absurd game-winning dunk. Then, they discuss Golden State’s unlikely win over the Rockets without Jimmy Butler before wrapping up with the Thunder sweeping the Grizzlies and the Heat going down 3-0 to the Cavs. They also take a look at how the Grizzlies and Heat should move forward this offseason. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto This episode is brought to you by Degree Deodorant. Grab the original Cool Rush at Walmart or Target today. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me. Rob Mahoney, Figuas, recording this a little before 9 p.m. on Saturday night. So I would say, you know, two to three hours after one of the greatest buzzer-beating final shots

that I have ever witnessed. I remember going through the first half of the Rockets Warriors game, and I still not sure I totally comprehended what was happening because Aaron Gordon's big bucket to win it against the Clippers in game four was that important. What did you guys think? Just when you think you've seen it all, you know, a two-handed put-back dunk to beat the buzzer by, I have to say was,

I think the slimmest margin I have ever seen any basket beat any buzzer in the entirety of the time I've been watching basketball. It was nuts. And the fact that Yokic, he did a Sambor shuffle to try to win the game. And it ended up being a Kobe assist instead. I know. Which was just crazy, man. Our guy can't stop giving, you know?

Even when he tries to shoot, it turns into a wonderful assist. People were mad that he didn't get the assist. And they were saying that if it was in Denver, the scorekeepers would have given it. So after the game on the, I guess that was T&T. broadcast. He was talking to, I believe it was Ali LaForce, Gordon was, and he just was at a loss of words. He didn't know

what to say, dude. And I think we all felt that way, having watched the entire fourth quarter where Denver just literally is melting down. Turnovers, giving up wide-open layups. It was just, couldn't figure out a two-three zone, apparently. And

I was just like, wow, their season is coming down to this. And somehow, man, they held Dawn and Aaron Gordon was able to get that incredible putback, which I thought in real time, I was like, no, that's good. Yeah. But then on the replay, I was like, wait a second. This is way closer than I thought.

Even after the fact, if you looked at a lot of the clips that were circulating, it looked like his hand was still on the ball and that there was still like 10 to 15 percent of ball that hadn't quite gone through the rim yet. But fortunately, the NBA official Twitter account made sure to tweet out the actual replay review angles. And if you go look at at NBA official on Twitter or whatever platform you want to choose, you get to see a very definitive look from above, I think, where within a split second, it might be 0.1 seconds. It might even be less than that. It's got to be less. You let me talk to me milliseconds where just as he lets go, like right off of his fingertips, it goes through the

nets. That's how close this game was. So what did we learn? I learned that that angle exists. A camera angle I've genuinely never seen before on any broadcast. for any use. I learned that the lights that border the backboard that light up at zero zero, apparently happened kind of incrementally in a wave. And so there are some shots where the fingertips are on as some lights are on, but not all lights are on. I also learned that those lights technically are turning on before zero zero so that they

can fully be on by the time they hit zero zero. It's just been a really educational evening courtesy of Aaron Gordon. I have no choice but to thank him. It was a crazy just a series of events that even led up to that. because we had the Sambor just falling away practically out of bounds to the point where Yokic seemed like based on as he was walking away, one, he didn't think that Gordon shot went in. And two, it almost, he said after the fact, like, I thought that was a terrible shot. Like, what was I doing?

So I was good to hear that from him. But on top of that, obviously Kauai goes and tries to double with Zhu. They get the bad shot to force up. But underneath the basket, James Hardin is left to basically box out, not only Aaron Gordon, but also another player because Norm Powell just kind of gives up. And so I don't know what was happening there with the clip. It was like, Chris Dunn wasn't even on the court for that play. It was not a times out play, but bogey was on the court and not done. And so I don't even know why we got to that point because listen, it was a fluke thing. Maybe this never happens a hundred

times out of 101 times. But, you know, maybe a little extra effort on the box that would have helped just a little bit. I mean, can you blame them under these circumstances? As you're saying, it's so fluky, it's so unprecedented. I would never have guessed there would even be time to make such a play. And so I, for me, I'm putting less fault on James Hardin or even Norm Powell and more Aaron Gordon's presence of mind and sense of timing in that moment is some truly supernatural shit. Like, to even be there in the first place to collect that shot, I think is a tremendous play on his part. But to get it in the timing he did, I've never seen anything. like it. And he just boomed this thing through, man. Like, like that thing, he dunked that with such

force. That's what kind of threw me off. Because, you know, I'm watching the shot. I'm like, oh, okay, yo, could you got this off? Maybe this will be a buzzer-beater. Then it just felt like out of nowhere, this man just grabbed this thing with the hand of God and, you know, wins the game for these dudes at the end. That was, that was crazy because I would have just assumed that that shot was the last shot of the game. And so there is no box out. There's no tip in. There's no any of that. I would have assumed that I thought it was the, when it went up, I thought it was the last shot of the game. Play through the whistle or play through the nine different cascading lights that apparently go on at the backboard in these sorts of situations. I think it was

apropos that it was Gordon because a lot gets made of the pick and roll combination between Murray and Yokic and just the kind of synergy that they have. But like just the mental mind melt that the two have between Gordon and Yokic has been something special. You saw it in the finals run where every time that Yokic got doubled, it was always Gordon making the right cut at the right time. The fact that he was the one collecting the ball at the right time with the presence of mind to put it back in. It's just, this is what the Nuggets have been for the past couple years. And it speaks to just like how important he is. There's a reason why he is Mr. Nuggett in addition to Yokit's just being everything and anything for the nuggets. It's absolutely true. And rightly so, the focus will be on

this dunk, which is a highlight that will live on in NBA history. Throughout the bulk of this game, him running the floor hard, setting up in transition, drawing fouls on Kauai. He was his own kind of menace within the body of this game. And the kind of counterpunch that Denver has been looking for in all of these contests, right? Like it's been Yokic kind of front and center. I thought in this game, Yokic was probably as aggressive as he's been at any point in this series. I would say it's the first truly great Yokic game of this first round so far, which is a delight to see. But having Aaron Gordon as a counterpunch was huge. Having a good Christian Brown game was huge. Having Michael Porter

with one arm, having his highest scoring game of the series was a goddamn miracle. And Denver needed all of that stuff because they really had no other bodies to pull from. We got Vladko Chanchar minutes in a real-life playoff game. So that's really the state of things. Yeah. And all those guys you mentioned,

you didn't mention Jamal Murray because he was basically a ghost. He just hasn't been good in this series at all. And, you know, I know, I know a lot of people gave my guy Tom Habistro some guff for saying that Yokic has never played with an all-star. Was that me? I think I mean, I guess I was one of them. I think it's a little, it's a little fuzzy with the math. But yeah, okay. Yeah, but okay. But has Jamal Murray played like an all-star to you in this series?

Justin doesn't defend Jamal Murray until it comes time to poke at Nicola Yokic. That's the only reason he will ever defend Jamal. I think, no, okay, we're going to divert just slightly so I can explain myself here. Please do. I think it's, I think it's a little. weird that like after the fact we kind of redo history to make it seem like every superstar just didn't have a super team around them when the nuggets in particular with a model for NBA team building up until the past two years when Calvin Booth just kind of undid what they did. So for that finals run, like that team was the product of like 10 amazing moves. They built that team perfectly. And now we're going to like pretend like just the fact that one of them didn't make an

all-star team. He didn't have a great team around him. Like, come on. It was a good team, but I think the whole reason that they're a model, and the reason we're getting into this conversation now about like how they are hitting certain walls, how they're running into difficulty against teams like the Clippers is because they don't have a definitive traditional second star. They have a guy like Murray. They have a guy like Murray who has been that in the playoffs at times, but was not in this game. And they have like a rock solid starting five, whether it was KCP back in the day, where Christian Brown now, Bruce Brown kind of in between there as like a toggle option. But they have a rock solid. But they have a,

don't have a lot of alternatives, right? Like they have built themselves in a way that is, that makes cogent sense, but isn't always adaptive in the way that playoff teams need to be adaptive. And I think that's where you find them right now where if you're the Denver Nuggets, once the like elation of the Aaron Gordon game winner fades away, you do not feel good about the way your season almost imploded in your hands, the way you gave up a 22 point lead by not playing defense, by not securing rebounds, by not, like, not guarding until they became too late

and then panic over rotating and giving Lauren Powell like practice threes, right? Like everything went wrong for them starting with the fact that they could not penetrate a Bogdan Bogdanovich led zone defense for minutes on in, for basically the better part of the fourth quarter.

It was insane. I want to be clear to like, I don't think the nuggets are somehow, you know, the first era of LeBron and Cleveland. This is not Ben Wallace cooked. Sasha Palvovich, Booby-freaking Gibson,

who was basically out of the league after LeBron left that team, and he was their second best player in a bunch of players. No, that's not what Denver is, but the bottom line is, like, why it's nice to have stars on your team. They're more consistent than role players.

Like, you just can't expect role players to be excellent series to series, where stars, you expect them, no matter the matchup, to have a huge impact. And, you know, the bottom line is, Jamar Murray specifically is just not having a huge impact on this series. Yeah, I don't even think we mentioned that Russ wasn't playing here and now maybe that helped

in some some ways, but the fact that like they didn't have a bench at all, like the entire bench was virtually useless. And like on the one hand, I think you guys are right. I think Denver has to be like, man, we got away with one, probably in a similar fashion that they did in game one. On the other end, the Clippers, this is the second time this happened. And you really have to be. smarting yourself because they could easily be up for a at the very least they should have a three one lead on this series but they didn't really kick into gear until the end of the game their bench didn't really come through all those ancillary guys that chipped in in the blowout game just in game three like but tomb wasn't really hitting bogey was fine uh chris dunn was so bad offensively you

had to worry like about even playing him because i think he missed like eight of his nine shots in this game harden a ghost until the fourth quarter and even quai like he was so fine for a while and he kicked in in the fourth quarter so like they really had no business even being in the fourth quarter they did storm back but like man like i was ready to hammer them before they came back here because this was a whole opportunity for the clippers this should have never been close they have way more better players than the nuggets even though yokitch was incredible here it's just these things just keep happening to the clippers like the opportunity was there to be taken seriously and they just kind of let it slip through their fingers it's

true. I think if anything, as far as like turning points in the series strategically, things that might actually change now there were four games in. The Chris Dunn thing feels like it's starting to become a real problem overall for the Clipper offense. And he's someone who they rely on. They rely on his pressure defensively, even if they didn't lean on it so much in this one. They made their run when he went to the bench. And the Nuggets had somebody that they no longer could rotate off of with Norm Powell in there. That was straight up it. Like him going one for six from three in this game was a huge problem. Nicholas Batum finally missing some shots was a huge problem.

And Derek Jones. Every time he misses, I'm shocked. I'm not going to lie. Well, the first couple games conditioned us that he's just going to come in and hit run breaking threes every single time. And it looked like based off his first make, he might do that again, but then just like could not cash on

open opportunities that the Clippers desperately needed. And yeah, if Hardin is having basically a zero game, one of those guys is going to have to step up. And Norm kind of started to, as you mentioned, JV and Kauai kind of had his moments, but overall, just not enough to like surmount this kind of

Nicole Yokic effort in particular and the way he was picking them apart through three quarters. I also have to give shout to the referees here. Zach Zarba and crew probably the first and only time will ever give shoutouts to the referees here because not only did they get there. Is he a Brooklyn guy? Yeah, he's a Brooklyn guy.

Of course. He's so street smart. He knew what he was doing out there. Not only did they get the call right at the end of the game, they also did not toss anyone based off of the firm shoving match that broke out in the middle of that? Can you imagine not having Gordon on the floor? It's really close. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh my God. There's so many of those guys. And so everyone got the one technical that all offset. And everyone just went about their day. It took 30 minutes to do it, but they ended up in the right place. And I'm glad they did. The fact that it was six distinct and perfectly offsetting text is just a piece of performance art.

I think we- And I feel like he, did he? alternate between teams or did he do the first team, their first three? It seemed a little more dramatic than that. I feel like there was like one nugget thrown in during the clipper section. And then one clipper thrown in during the nugget section. And then the last one at the end was like, okay, see, but now, okay, nobody's even going to shoot a free throw here.

All right, cool. So, Was, what are you feeling going forward here? Who feels better coming out of this? I got to say, man, I just think the clippers, with their big three, they just feel more reliable. Kauai, Zubb who played another monster freaking game. He's a problem, dude. Like, he's just having a huge major impact on this series. Like, everything, first of all, Tailu, stop with the Simmons stuff.

You got away when they for three games. They finally cracked it. They just stop. The impenetrable code of the Ben Simmons hitters. He played texting these guys. I can't text to these guys. And it went haywire. In the second half, the second half, the second half, was bad. In the first half, he was like, whatever, he was fine.

He had like one or two nice plays actually. I kept texting these guys for three games. Like, they can't keep getting away with this. But it did. Five minutes. Yeah. But yeah, I just think Zub, Kawhi, and Hardin can be more reliably good to great than Yokic, Murray,

Gordon, or if you want to throw Porter Jr. in there. I just think they're just more consistently, you know, up to the task, man. And that's why I think you've got to like their chance. in the last three games of this series. Like, I've been changed on that. Like, Kauai and Hardin are constantly putting Denver's defense in compromising positions.

That fourth quarter was just like, they just cut through these dudes, okay? Like, they were paper mache. And so to me, I think you got to like the clippers, man, going down the stretch of this series. I think the only thing that gives me hesitation is that the moments when the nuggets have really hit a wall have been against sort of off-speed coverages and things like that. It is the zone. It is the Ben Simmons minutes. It's stuff that they clearly just like weren't fully prepared for or expecting.

And that's not an excuse. But to say it's a little harder when it's all of your default stuff. And as the series goes on, we're already starting to see it on the Clippers side. It's just going to be more 44 minute nights from Kauai and Zoo and James Hardin and all the core members. God knows the Nuggets are already doing that throughout their starting lineup. They have to play 42, 43 plus minutes.

it's going to start kind of normalizing into this is your base stuff. This is all you have left by the end of a series, right? You're kind of stripped away for all those gimmicks, all those parts, all the rotation players who can't hang anymore. And what are you left with? You're left with the best player in basketball on one side who's, I think, finally starting to get into gear. And most importantly, finally starting to shift from Nicola Yokic, you know, neighborhood,

like your friendly neighborhood playmaker who's trying to get everybody involved to, oh, I'm going to actually make a quick move on the catch every time. Oh, when there's like a quasi double team, I'm just going to throw up the shot anyway. And I'm probably going to hit it because I'm one of the best scorers in the league. Like he needed to go through that mental shift. And I do think we saw that here in game four. He made a big shot before the Sambor shuffle. Like this 101, he does like 20 different Kevin McHale upfakes and just cash is a fake.

Like one of the hardest shots you can take in freaking basketball was Zoom all over this time. Yeah, he was on it. And he made a huge, like he was just great today, finally. And yeah, I guess that's what they can hang their hat on. Nicole Yokic has the ability to be all-time great. But goddamn, man, some other people got to do stuff too. Very true. But that's the worry, though.

Like, the Clippers have so much in their favor. Their bench has not only just, like, been more consistent, but there are multiple guys that you could hope for that could chip things in. Like, Batum has been very good in this series. Derek Jones, Jr., even though he hasn't given them much offensively, just consistently good defensively. three today. Bogey game.

Really, really good. He came alive after three games, just like, he's hounding Jamo Murray in the back court. Like, I'm like, what am I watching? Like, Jamoomir, why are you getting hounded by boat? Like, this is not a thing. Yeah. But that's the thing.

When the margins are this close, that's when the Yokish's vantage just comes to the four. It was a real, like, you're supposed to turn Yokish into a score. Like, okay, bet, sort of game for him. Like, this is not the opportunity you want to give him because he more times and not will all execute a team in these type of situations. History also tells us to, like,

this can change. Granted, it's a two-two series. Anything can have from this point. They have two-home games. They do have two-home. I'm not even saying that. I'm saying usually when you look back at the ends of these series and they're this close, you look at the team that's like, man, they really had that one in their hands and they gave it up.

And the Clippers having two of those games, on the one hand, you could take to mean, on balance, they've been the better team, because I would say they have been. They have been. They've also squandered two crucial opportunities out of seven. And that rarely do you get through that alive, unscathed, without that coming back to bite you. Guys, it's ultimately the clippers.

You know, I don't know if they feel the weight of history, but all of us do. And all of us are also like counting meticulously the Kauai Leonard minutes or the Kauai Leonard good minutes. That could just go away in a blink of an eye. And so you really need to make the most of your opportunities. And this is the classic example of like, this is the exact game you do not want to lose because that fatalism starts to creep in. It's creeping in for me and I barely even like I wouldn't consider myself a fan. I'm just like aware of the history. Can we do a little betting pool now,

which is whenever whatever like the deciding game of this is, the elimination game for the Denver Nuggets, whether that's a closeout game seven, whether they're on the brink of elimination, how many Denver Nuggets appear in that game? Is the canker rule here? The John Charmits did not go. Here's where we're at now is there was a moment in this game when the lineup was Jalen Pickett, Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr., Peyton Watson, and DeAndre Jordan. And I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. That's kind of all they got. Like, if you're not, if you're going to give these guys any rest at all, that's what the lineup is going to look like. And if, how many Westbrook's foot injury is serious, I don't know how you get

away with anything but either that or playing these guys 47 minutes. Yeah, I was going to ask, like, how many arms does MPJ at that point? Like, if he just has stubs, is he still going out there and and given 30? Yeah. Black Knight Monty Python style. Like he's just gonna have to kill him out there. Question for both of you guys. So whose advantage is it that

David Adelman looks like the mad TV mascot? Is that to somebody's advantage? I had that same thought during the game. He does look a lot like that. I stole it from Twitter. Okay. Well, mine was already. No.

Waz created it. The people on Twitter stole it from Waz. It's like that madman thing where he's like, I came up with the idea of some type of marketing. It already existed, but I came up with it independently. The Pete thing. I guess you guys don't remember that. It's fine.

It was a good reference. I would also say Christian Brown fucking baller. That guy just comes through in big moments. I just want to shot him out here. Yeah, I agree with you guys. I think the Clippers have it all. I just, I wouldn't be surprised if the Nuggets pull this out. Yeah.

I'm glad we're here, though. Great series, though. I'm glad we're at the two, two, because three one would have felt so deflating, just as on an entertainment value. But, yeah, it's just incredible basketball to watch. Definitely. All right. Let's flip to the nightcap now.

We have the Warriors going up to one on the Rockets, despite not having a single Jimmy Butler minute, just a classic stuff performance here, just all phases of the game. There was one point where he had a little like Russell Westbrook Cotton shot where he just pulled up quickly on Jabari Smith. And I was like, God damn. Like my knees like felt the phantom pain of him doing a 37 year old just doing this. The fact that he could still do that and he can move like that is so incredible. He also had nine assists in this game.

But I have to say, Rob, my kind of big takeaway from this one is like what the fuck of the Rockets doing? Like you got to win this one. You really have to. You have to. Their offense was complete sludge. Like this wasn't even like stuck in. the mud offense. This is like bottom of the tar pit fossilized in amber. Like no movement,

nothing going on whatsoever. And I think for at least that, the half and maybe a half in change, they were able to kind of pull Golden State with them and kind of bring them down to their level and eke out points enough of a slight advantage to make it feel like they had controlled the game until Steph was Steph. And that's where like, I agree with you, JV. Like this was, this is a really special Steph game. It's not against the highest level of competition but what he was able to do in the fourth quarter, and I guess in the third, because he was already starting a massive scoring

and assisting run in the third quarter, but down the stretch, weaponizing Gary Payton the second into a full-time crunch time weapon was unreal. And it was just happening because the rockets were freaking out every time Steph moved in any particular direction. Like, that is power.

That's a power that we had never seen before Steph came into the league in terms of that kind of off-ball impact. And frankly, I'm not sure we're ever going to see it again. because for all the Steph copycats out there, no one moves like him. No one can do that. Two takeaways, man. Obviously, echo you guys as sense,

Mr. Steph Curry, doing this at 37, still giving us these kind of performances that I get to sit on my couch and watch this guy's wizardry is a blessing. The second thing is, what is the NBA regular season, man? Like, that this team could be the two seed in the West, when 52 games, essentially guys, on effort.

They try harder than everybody else in the regular season. Now that everybody's trying hard, Golden State doesn't have their second. Like, he's a star. Like, as much, like everything we're saying about Jamal Murray, not being that for Denver, is what Jimmy Butler has been for Golden State. Bankable, you know, basically for freaking 30 games

since he got traded, just a bankable star. He's out. And the Warriors basically punked these guys. anyway. And Fred Van Vleet is taking 14. She's out shooting Jalen Green in a game. Okay. A men Thompson who, God bless him, we love him. He's our favorite guy. Five for 16 because that's not his bag. He hasn't arrived at that moment yet where he can be a guy who shoulders the burden in a big got-a-half playoff game. And like, what am I watching here with this team? It's like, yes, you guys play good defenses. And I think even me, I fell for the last regular season game.

which is hounding Steph and, you know, basically Stephs couldn't even get a dribble off. And I'm like, man, these guys are scary. And then you see tonight where it's just like, bro, your offense is just, this is JV. You're just not a varsity big boy type of playoff offense at all. Yeah. And I don't see how that changes over the course of this series. It's not a bad thing to be JV. Let me tell you.

Did you get hit with that a lot growing up? No, I didn't really get JV until I, started working in sports. And if anything, maybe not even told the ringer. Wow. Oh, my God. I don't know why this made me think of this. But my god, Pablo Torre, was telling me a story that, like, when he was younger,

kids would spell his name Pablo with a WF. What is even the bit? We're just talking about nicknames now? that was it like what did they call JV when he was young and I just thought about that story sorry guys

it's all good no well speaking of young player sorts of things like amend Thompson just had like 30 of those moments in this game Jayland Green had the classic come down after his meteoric sacking game Shen Goon

just seemed like he missed just a shitload of shots I think he missed like his first six shots almost at the basket and so at a certain point like, you know, that will happen, but it almost felt like just misses combined with young stuff, combined with just the same old problem that we always have with the Rock is just they don't have anyone to stabilize their offense just all kind of came to head all at once.

Yeah, Amen just doesn't have the game for it yet. You can see the way that, you know, someone like Draymond will pick him up on a possession. He doesn't have counters. No counters. And Draymond's just standing basically at like the restricted circle and giving Amman Thompson any shot he wants outside of that and he can't hit like a little free throw line floater or even a step in kind of runner

just isn't being able to redeem any of that kind of offense and so long as that's the case and you can see him working hard you can see him trying to find his angles they're just not there and they're not there for Jalen Green either he had against some moments in this game but it really was just moments. Shangoon I was

kind of shocked to say that he only had one turnover in this game because I felt all night he was kind of soft and sloppy with the ball and it must not have manifested in turnover but it did manifest in people deflecting and kind of throwing him off his spot. He would have to reestablish, kick the ball out. He would recollect or he would get a shot up, but it would be bothered by somebody's contest ultimately. That's not the way you want to leverage size in a game like this.

Like you're the bigger, more physical team. You have to play like it. The Rockets certainly do that on defense, right? They played defensively well enough to win. They just, they could not and have not been able to score enough consistently in the series. And we thought Jimmy Butler's downfall might be the one average. they have to consistently outscore the Warriors. That did not happen.

And now if Jimmy Butler is able to come back at any point in this series, it feels kind of like a foregone conclusion that Golden State can at least string together enough buckets to win. Yeah, the problem for Shangun is that the thing, and, you know, we make these jokes about him being Yokic light or the Boris D.L. of Nicola Yokic is and all this kind of stuff. But the problem for him is that he's not Yokic.

Like the thing that Dremont Green made his name in the NBA, with those small ball lineups with him at the five, and it's because he could stonewall centers in the post. That's why those lineups worked, that there were no centers in the league that could just get the ball and eviscerate Draymond Green in the post and get shots, you know, basically within three feet that are the most bankable shots in the game.

And him just trying to do that straight up against Dr. Mark, it's just not going to happen. You know, like this is what this guy does. I would argue it's his superpower, besides his processing ability. It's like, dude, like he can just straight up guard any center in the world one-on-one on an island. And so, yeah, I think Shangu just ran up against that, man. It's kind of got to be Jalen Green.

It's got to be a men Thompson. It's got to be, dare I say, Fred Van Ville, who shoots these guys back into this series. Along those lines, like coming into this game, Houston was scoring more of its points in the paint than any other team in the playoffs. like in terms of the percentage of their offense Golden State was the exact opposite, the lowest percentage of their offense coming from the paint in these games. In this one,

the Warriors outscored the Rockets 44 to 38 in the paint. This cuty little jump shooting Golden State team managed to get to the rim by leveraging what Steph was doing, by getting all this cutting activated. And on the other side of it, Draymond, and I'll say Quentin Post too, really high level rim protection from those guys. Whether it was Amen Thompson crashing in,

Tari Isson coming in, all this transition play that the rockets are trying to access. Golden State was getting back, walling off the basket, really contesting those shots heavily, and taking away really the only way that Houston has to score consistently, and I guess throw in there intentionally fouling Stephen Adams here and there as well, just to try to milk the system a little bit, and it worked. Who do you think Draymond Green hates more? Is it Jalen Green or is it Buddy Healed?

Why Buddy Healed? Was he getting into Buddy this game? Oh, my God. But Jimmy was. He got ripped basically at half court by a center. By Stephen Adams. Not just a center. Stephen Adams.

Pick your pocket. Took your cookies from you at half. That's insane, bro. That is a clip that lives in the group chat forever. Like, anytime you try to get a little mouthy with somebody, they just drop in the clip. It just seems like every year. And now increasingly maybe every couple months, Curr just like has a guy that he really just sticks in his car.

For a while, was Bejemsky. But it seems like it is turned over to the healed era where watch the clip of Steph just staring blankly into space while like Jimmy basically tells Buddy to stop dribbling is one of the best thing. There's the clip before where it's like, hey, buddy, welcome to, welcome to Steph Curry. He's like one of the best players of all times. Yeah.

Yeah. Buddy was pretty good in this game. He really was like. He really was. freeze, man. Yeah. He just keeps having those moments. And it definitely draws the iron, I think, of some of the old guard guys.

But having him as that pressure release on the weak side was huge. And it's the reason you can play guys like Peyton ultimately. And why Pajemski, I'll say, too, deserves a lot of credit for his play in chaos, right? Against all of these stilted defensive rotations, these weird transition situations that Steph creates where the rockets are pressed up way too high. And you just see Pajinsky cutting through all of it to draw fouls and to get to the rim and to open up shots for other people. notably absent at the end of this game was Jonathan Cumminga who started it and I will say Steve Kerr

did everything possible reconfiguring the entire starting lineup to suit Jonathan Cuminga in Jimmy Butler's absence and if there was going to be a Cuminga game this was going to be it he had seven points on seven shots was not a consideration by the end of the game I think we can really put this one to bed guys

but he stayed ready though well Moody was right ready, who came off the bench after starting how many games in a row. Yep. He didn't seem affected by it. No, it's a gamer. And the thing is, Moody knows how to play. That's the difference.

That's simple. It's really that simple. Like, commingled is just lost out there. Couldn't do anything, right? And, you know, again, it's like you want to empower these young guys because he thinks of himself as a ball, dominant kind of guy. I'm going to break guys down off the dribble. all of that. And he was doing some of that, but he was breaking himself more than he was breaking

the rockets. And, you know, it is what it is. And I wonder to, like, and this is me, this is not me having talked to anybody or whatever. I wonder if this was a lake up thing. Like, yo, Jimmy's, Jimmy's out. Like, our guy comminga has to get in here, right? And no, he doesn't have to. I think it probably was a Kerr thing. Just like, again, you kind of saw it in the first half. Like, where else are you going to get offense with Jimmy out? Like at least throw a theoretically dynamic offensive player into the starting lineup and try to get as much shooting around him as possible. Try to play into the sort of like counter punching offense that he can give you

relative to the Steph Beautiful game. It just wasn't there. And you saw, you saw like a really kind of painful balance for Kumingav. Like he was kind of trying to get other guys involved, but he's not very good at it. And then some positions he would just fall into his worst instincts and hold on to way too long and pump fake 12 times into a turnover.

It wasn't good. It did not work. And again, you see some of that from young players on the Rocket side too. The one exception to that, and I was not prepared to say this, Jabari Smith Jr., I thought played a rock solid game. And this is a great contrast point for him and Jonathan Kuminga. Jonathan Kuminga is a really fluid athlete, a guy who will pop if you watch him in a one-on-one workout, if you see him in certain highlight reels.

Jabari gets grief all the time for being a little too mechanical, a little too mechanical. robotic, pretty rigid athlete ultimately. What did he do? He stood in the corner, took quick decision catch and shoot three's fucking canned him every time they came his way. Also, on defense, I thought was just completely locked in

and dedicated on the Steph scouting report. As far as what you can realistically ask a big to do switching on to Steph, Jabari Smith did it. And these are the little things that make Jabari Smith a successful like 20 to 25 minute player in this game and ultimately Jonathan Cumminga

not and ultimately not even be able to play that much for the Warriors when they desperately need him to play. Jabari Smith will look really good doing that off of Devin Booker this offseason because they know a little bit of offense. They only scored 93 points in this one. I'm sure that's what led to the Kaminga start because they thought Kerr probably thought they were going to have to score more than 104. But this was kind of a weird game.

Did you guys, since we're always talking about what people are eating before games, did you guys hear the note that Brandon Pajemski apparently had food poised? visiting last game. It was because of he said some bad sushi. Yeah. If you guys ever had bad sushi? One, are you eating sushi? Is sushi before a game like the type of thing

you guys would reach for? Well, I think it was implied there was like an off day kind of thing maybe. Well, even in, in between games. Like, would you be sushi? Like a light situation. Is that wrong with sushi? Like, that's way better than Alfredo pasta. Yeah. But was he going out to like a fancy sushi place or

was he going to like a bodega sushi place? he's getting like 7-11 sushi or something? Oh, yeah. There's even a side swipe at like, oh, getting sushi in Houston. Houston has plenty of great sushi. This is a wonderful seafood city. Don't, don't mess around like this. Don't do that.

Shimi? Are we talking? Like, I could see some crab or something like that. Well, there's great sashimi. There's great both modern and traditional sushi in Houston. This is uncalled for. They should stick to crudo. Is that what you're saying?

I think you should be like crawfish broils or something like that. It's not just a crawfish city. It's a Vietnamese fusion crawfish city. And in addition to that, a very robust sushi scene. So I thought I thought that was needless, frankly. I spent the weekend out in Houston in 2022, one of the most big-backed cities in the history of America. I'll tell you that much, boy. That's nothing to do with sushi. My Lord, at mercy. Yeah. I'll say this. I do think California is the type of place that has good quality sushi at low quality establishments. You know, it's easier to find good sushi in low places. At that point, when the ringer first opened, we had an office downtown Hollywood.

And there were a lot of people from the office that would make the track long walk to like Hollywood proper right by the Arklight Simona. So like really in the heart of Hollywood to, I think it was a Walgreens that had just like a ton of fucking sushi. And for the while, I was like, what are you guys doing? You were all going to die. And I tried it once, not that bad. I still think we're going to die if they continue.

That's the kind of roulette I don't want to play. Okay. Walgreens, come on. I'm telling you, next time you're in L.A., go hit up a Walgreens. I will not. I will be pleasantly surprised. Simply will not. All right.

Anything else from this one? How are you guys feeling going forward? Anything swayed you in the rocket's direction? You know, a lot of times in these playoffs series, like, what's the adjustment? What are they going to do differently? Are they going to guard Steph differently? Are they going to try this? Are they going to...

There's no adjustment. You got to make shots. Yeah. That's it. That's the adjustment. You know, not shoot collectively 39% from the field. Like, you got to make shots. That's it.

Especially when I thought they played maybe two full quarters, maybe two and a half quarters of pretty good technical defense on Steph. Like, you know, Fred Van Vliet was doing a good job. I meant Thompson was doing a good job. I thought they were handling it as bad as well. as they could. I got 12 in the first half. They had it there if they could only put any kind of scoring run together.

And like, that's the trouble right now is once all the water gets shut off in transition, once the offensive rebounding game kind of equalizes, where are you finding your advantages? And right now, their athleticism, and they have a lot of it, is just not manifesting any kind of sustainable offensive advantage. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fandul. The NBA playoffs are finally here, and there's no better way to be a part of the action. then with Fandle, America's number one sports book. After another competitive season, the top teams are ready to battle their way through the

playoff bracket in hopes of taking home the championship. And if you think you know how it's all going to go down, then make those predictions pay off with Fandall and NBA profit boosts. Simply make your bet, activate your boost, and go for even bigger winnings. So we're looking at Sunday's slate jam-packed with four games. we're looking at that late game. You're right. Yeah, I'm going to go with the Indiana Pacers plus four and a half at Milwaukee.

A little confused about this line. I know that Janus has been just awesome this postseason. He probably will again. Dame also came through. But I don't know. Are they that good? I'm a little surprised that they are giving points in this one. So I'm taking the points with the Pacers.

I know. I don't love the Pacers, but I think they're considerably better as a team. and that's what we're betting here. Give me Pacers plus four and a half, game four in Milwaukee. Lock it in. And don't just be a spectator this postseason. Head to fandul.com slash ringer MBA to download America's number one sportsbook and make every moment more.

Must be 21 plus in present in select states or 18 plus in present in D.C. Opt-in-required bonus issued as non-witrable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration in max wage or amount. See terms at sportsbook.com. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-dashhelp.com. This episode is brought to you by Degree, original Cool Rush Deodorant. So remember last year when people got really mad when Degree changed their Cool Rush formula?

One dude even started a petition. Well, guess what? Degree listened, admitted they messed up, and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back. You've got to love when a brand can own its mistake. weeks. And it's in Walmart, Target, and other stores now for under $4. Grab some and find out why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. The original degree, Cool Rush, is back, and it smells like victory for all of us. Well, while the rest of the West is arm wrestling, game in and game out, the Thunder are skipping

straight to the second round. They win the series in a sweet furrow against the Grizzlies. Pretty good showing from the Grizzlies. They get the golf clap for showing up, two straight games in order to end this out. They didn't have John Moray and this one who refused to be on camera just for the people in the booth to pick an alternative to you and stay on employees.

Inspired. That was really good. I think if we're looking at the Thunder side of this before we look ahead on the Grizzlies, I think they checked a lot of the boxes that you were hoping for for a first round suite from Thunder. Consistent scoring from J-Dub,

20, pretty much every single game. Including a couple big buckets in this one in order to close it out. You saw a legitimate, moments from Chet Holmgren, especially in game three, but he had a nice steal toward at the end of this game. The defense showed up. You know, there wasn't any sort of like rotational issues.

They just seemed dialed in, Rob. Is there anything else that I'm missing in terms of like check marks you were hoping to see that you did or did not see? I guess just kind of like lower stakes training wheels clutch situations, really? They actually had some competitive games over this last week. And so the idea that, okay, you get to trot out your, what's going to be your closing five, which is Isaiah Hardstein, not in that group. Alex Caruso subbed in and we've seen the chaos that he can create.

Kevin Pelton pointed out, of ESPN, pointed out that that lineup, basically the starters, but with Caruso instead of Hardinstein, only played 16 minutes together in the regular season. All the guys in and outs. Caruso obviously missed a lot of time. It was, I think, kind of strategically probably held back in spots to load manage his way here so that he could be this player in this moment. And you're seeing why. I'm sure some of that is matchup dependent, right?

Caruso, we saw neutralized Jared Jackson, and Jr. multiple times over the course these last couple games. It's clearly an incredibly skilled perimeter defender in his right, guarding all kinds of matchups. But that looks like a really tough group to have to mess with in crunch time. And Chad Holmgren came up with a huge crunch time steal on Scotty Pippin Jr. That forced Scottie Pippen Jr. to foul him and foul himself out of the game in the process. Just like huge plays in a game that ultimately doesn't mean that much.

But it means something. You're in the somewhat pressure pack situation. You get to practice fouling up three. You're going through the paces of what it's going to take strategically to close out some of these games. And for the Thunder, that's an incredible luxury after the dominance of their season. I got to say, Rob, I completely disagree. These people got functional equivalent of a first round ball. They have not started playing in the playoffs yet, bro.

No? This team, first of all, one of these games, they beat them by 50. Yes. Okay. We're throwing that one out. We're throwing that one out. That's not a playoff game. And in this game right here, John Moran, it's not even playing.

Like, they, first of, they allowed this group of Grizzlies to drop 115 on them. What do we know? They didn't try on defense. They were just like, this is not a serious game. These guys, this is not a serious opponent. We're going to sleepwalk through this thing and ultimately close them out. I would say, like, they didn't have a playoff series, you know. And shouts to them for taking care of business.

Like, you know, Memphis isn't a serious outfit and they treated them like that and got them up out of here for four games. But I do think, like, this has kind of been a joke. to be honest, this entire series. Smoked them by 50, then another win by 20. And then finally, you know, Memphis has one good half for the entire series and still end up losing that. One of the biggest comebacks in playoff history. Yeah. You know, I'm not even saying this was like a 48 minute like professional clinic from the Thunder.

Oh, they fouled down through their practice and they play. No, this is a playoff series. This is a joke. This series is a joke. And Memphis made it so. let me ask you about this because I think we were all pretty high on Jaron Jackson coming into this postseason really kind of recalibrated at least from my perspective like where his ceiling might lie wasn't the best performance with him kind of in the spotlight where are you Rob like maybe in terms of Jackson did this like postseason bring you a little bit lower on him or did you end up probably in the same place you ended the regular season with him I'm maybe slightly lower but ultimately the Thunderer are bad matchup for him. A team that's this small, that's that active with their hands is not going to be his best place. Like, he's better punishing bigs than he is punishing smalls ultimately.

Plus, he's just not a credible first option on a contending team. That's not who he is. And he's had to be that for the Grizzlies at many points this season because of their injury situations and because Jaws as kind of up and down as he is, even when he is healthy. Ideally, you have a playmaker who's putting the ball in his hands and you're not having Jaron Jackson, bring the ball up court as your point guard. But the Grizzlies had to do that sometimes. Like that's ultimately what their lineup looked like by the end of this series. And so I think this is a bad matchup.

I think this is a bad spot. I think he had some awful games within this series. This close out one included like just was not good enough from Jaron Jackson Jr. But ultimately, I think of him as a really good second or third best player on a team that's really fighting for something. And the Grizzlies aren't fighting for something because they don't have those players. Yeah, nothing's changed for me. I've never really been crazy high.

I think he's a good player, obviously. I'm not, you know, doesn't take a scientist to figure that out. It's just for me offensively, he doesn't have a thing. You know, like, what's his go-to? What is Jaron Jackson really good at on offense? I don't think he has anything that you can say that about. And that's my main issue with him as, you know, a star. Like, your first star better be somebody who can just go supernova on offense

and create for others and create these advantages because Jared Jackson Jr. just will never put defenses in any kind of panic. Even though, you know, he's a credible shooter, but nobody panics when Jaron Jackson is shooting. And maybe there's just biased because he's got one of the ugliest forms. But like it's just he doesn't put defenses in a bind. And that's ultimately why I'll never be too crazy about him

in terms of his ability to carry a team through in the postseason. but you know John Moran got hurt again and so here we are with Memphis yeah yeah I do think not only the performance here not only Jop being out but also this is an entree into probably a bigger picture conversation

which I think the Grizzlies are going to have to look in the mirror this off season and say what do we want to be do we want to hitch our wagon to Jha and still go through the motions of like well he won't he play and also some of the off the court sort of stuff or have we seen enough without him that we're ready to move on. If we are going to move on, what does that look like? What should we be targeting in order

to do so? And so I want to assemble my war room here. I want to get all my assistant GMs here, my tape guy, my my personnel guy. And we're going to come to a conclusion here because I have decided that we're going to trade John Moran. That is the issue on the table here. Okay. And you've not gone Nico Harrison and met with somebody in a coffee shop and already traded John Moran. You want to have a conversation with us about it? I may have lined up some stuff in advance, but I do want to get your feedback here because I appreciate the give and take here. This is a full functioning front office. Okay.

No, he checks. I think you can go one of two ways, and I do wonder if they will do one of them. You could either say, we want to trade our problem for someone else's problem. We are built to win now. We have all these guys on the same timeline, on Jaws timeline. What we really need is someone to just be there, a star that we could hitch our wagon to. and just basically have a same but different version of what we have, right? That's door number one.

Door number two is like, well, actually, that's tough to pull off, first and foremost, like, who is that guy? And do we actually want to take a step back? We still are pretty young overall, and we also kind of nail every draft pick, except for Zeyer Williams. And so just to get a high pick is actually what we want. Do either of those, Rob, appeal to you more if we do indeed want to trade? Jha. If you want to trade Jha, I would go the first route. I think the Grizzlies are still

competitive and there's a lot to the roster to like to the point that it would, honestly, it would take some work to tear it down to the point where you're going to actually lose a lot of games unless people are just hurt and out of the lineup like we've seen from them in recent seasons. So given that, I would be looking for a different kind of guard play. Because we've seen even like Scotty Pipp and Jr. in there gives them a kind of like decent level of execution on a baseline level that can help them do some things, not against the thunder, but against a lot of different levels of competition in between. What do you think, Wes?

I don't know, man. Like, obviously, I think the door number one is my favorite is to keep this thing rolling. Like, if you trade job for some reason, you get somebody who can actually go out and get you a bucket or, you know, be somebody that can play, make for others on the team. Because if you don't do that, you're what the Houston Rockets were tonight against Golden State. You're just not a credible playoff offense whatsoever. And I think if you're, you know, Zach Climman and them in that front office, and you can trick yourself into thinking maybe we get a coach in here who can get our guys

to consistently play more like the team we saw in the first half of game three more often. And that's what you maybe hang your hat on. But like the idea that they go out and get like, I don't know, the kid from Baylor or something, like that, try to get a pick for Jai, I hate that, honestly, as an option. Again, you started this season 34 and 15 with this group, with a bunch of guys in and out of the lineup. We know the regular season is kind of a fraud, so, like, obviously it doesn't mean the world, but it's like, there's the bones of a real team here.

And maybe I'm an idiot, and this group will never put it together for whatever reason. need to bring in new blood, but like, I'd rather stand pat or if somebody's, and I don't even know who this star is. Like, is it Devin Booker? Is it? No, I'd be surprised if you can get Booker for. That's what I'm saying. Like, who are you even doing that with? Let me, let me throw this out there. Would you trade Jha for Tray Young? No. I'm interested if I'm being honest. Right. Because it's really just the guy who's ceiling is higher, but the day-to-day product is a little bit messier, at least in terms of playing and not playing, versus probably the, I don't know, is he more cantankerous? Is he tougher to deal with on a personal level in Trey? But is pretty consistently going to be out there. So at least you have that sort of certainty. That's, I think what you're looking at here for a jaw trade level, because like if anyone's trading for them, they're not going to give away their best assets for someone who isn't playing and might get into trouble off the court. It's very true. And I think the other issue with that is for as much as like I appreciate a lot of elements of

Trey Young's game he is not the downhill threat that John Morant is and if your co-stars are Jaron Jackson Jr. and Desmond Bain you need someone with actual downhill umph so are you just are you just going to make an entirely jump shot driven offense from three guys who I will say two of them percentage wise are not always the best shooters in the world that doesn't sound super sustainable to me I'm not I'm not doing that I'm not doing a a stray young thing. Like, is La Mello Ball?

It's a good name. You know, like, Charlotte's put, already put it out there. Like, listen, we're open for business. If you guys want to make a deal, call us about this kid. We do not care to have them on our team anymore. Who, like, again, like, who else is even out there? Yeah, it's stuff. Like, at one point, Deeran Fox would have been out there, but now that he's spoken for, right? Like, that's, the market gets kind of weird once you clear past these first names that we've

mentioned. Yeah. It's a tough one. I would assume they do nothing, but I think they have to very least look at it. Can we talk about that decision to do nothing?

And ultimately, you came to this war room, Justin, with I want to trade John Morant. I'm pretty conservative with this stuff when it comes to giving cores of teams time and letting them find their way and letting them find their shorthand

and working together and kind of a developmental progress that is unified as far as guys learning how to grow and play together. This team has had like five years together. You know, like they've had chances and they have run into more or less the same walls over and over and over. And so I think it's fair to come into the offseason with something resembling that kind of decision. If not Jha, at least like we want to come into next year with a team that looks and feels different than this.

That we have seen what this looks like. We decided we wanted to fire our coach. We were so displeased with the product. On the one hand, that says you expect more of your roster than you were getting. But I think more realistically, you should expect to change. change in this roster if you want different results. Like that's probably what it's going to take. That was going to be my next question is, did Isolo do enough in the, I think, fewer than

10 games that he had at the helm there? He's fired. Get out of here. Did the Marvin Bagley minutes convince you that like this guy is on to something? They pulled the plug on those, by the way. They did. So it was a one game experiment, really. He got put in an impossible position.

It's not his fault. Yeah. But, yeah, no. I need my Kenny Atkinson. I need my guy that's going to turn this outfit around and not just change the way you play, man. And the crazy thing to me is that, you know, three, four years ago, they were known to be one of the best defensive teams in the NBA. That is just gone. That identity is poof up in smoke, man.

Like, there were just moments against OKC, which like, let's keep it a thousand. This is not some dynamic offense. They're not. it's a pretty good offense led by one of the best offensive players in the world. I'm not saying it's a bad one. It's not like it's impossible to conceive of a way to contain this offense from being like explosive. And they just straight up could not do that at any point in this series, which is just, I think

that's just, you know, they got to do something different. Yeah. Yep. I know Aislow is just getting some buzz for other sorts of jobs here. So yes, I don't think he acquitted himself, per se and a lot of those openings are starting to close pretty quickly. But he is someone at the very much on the short list, I think you'll see for other organizations. He also makes more sense for plan B of what you described, Justin, then plan A.

If you want to maintain with a star and compete now, then you probably want more of a Kenny Atkinson-style coach. And if you want to tear things down and take a step back and maybe even get younger than you are, then why not? You know, roll it with Tuamus Isolo and see kind of what he can bring to this group from like a more formative standpoint. Because I do like the young talent here. As far as some of the younger guys,

like, you know, Jalen Wells didn't have a chance to participate in this series, but proved himself to be Memphis's best defensive option on the wing for sure. And one of their better two-way wings overall, they might have something in Zach Eady. I gotta go back and forth on it, to be honest with you. He's doing a lot of stuff.

And sometimes it's too much of the wrong stuff. But you also see, you just don't see players block Chet Holmgren multiple times in the same game very often. And so anyone who can do that, is going to open my eyes a little bit. And I think there's some real possibility there. And, you know, Scotty Pippin Jr. is not John Morant, but he's a really good young player who's found his way into the league,

found a spot with this team, and has two more years under contract, which is not nothing for the Grizzlies. Last one on the board here, Cavs just absolutely toasted the Miami Heat. And despite Tyler Hero saying after the game, we're not going down for O. I'm sorry, my guy, you're going down for O because something amazing would have to happen for this not to be a sweep. Caves just dominated. even without dearest carlin out there, they just had their way with them

pretty much from the jump. Anything that's jumped out to you, Rob, about the calves over these three games? Is it basically like, your passing with flying colors? How many gold stars are we giving Kenning Atkinson and the boys here? Quite a few.

I think, for one, I feel like, if you want to, like, zoom out, say you didn't watch this game, and you just check in on the box score and you see Max Drews had 18 points, nine rebounds five assists. That's a good Max Drews game.

Those are Deniavdiabia numbers. Those are Dennyiavdi. Avdia numbers. I feel like a good Max Drews game means a good flow game for the Cavs. It means that ball is popping. It means they are dribble penetrated,

kicking out, everything is working in good Lord. Like the ball movement in this game in particular against what is ostensibly a defense first heat team. Just blinding. Like 32 assists on 48 shots

is fucking nuts. No matter who you're playing against, even if it is an Eric Spolster team, even if it is a team that is in the current state of this group. I just, I find myself so impressed by even at this level of competition, we were, you know, we were talking about the Cavs as a team to like, okay, did they take their foot off the gas down the back part of the regular season?

Did they have anything interesting to play for? Or, you know, did they peak a little earlier in the season than they might have liked? They're not leaving a lot of doubt right now for interpretation on that particular front. Like, they are taking care of business in the most emphatic way against the only opponent put forth in front of them, which is not a playoff caliber team, mind you. but it is one that they're just running up the score on, frankly. I think you could have said that the first two games were a little bit closer than probably we would have anticipated just because I don't hold this Miami team in very high regard.

But this was a game where it's like, no, this team is not close to us. They cannot touch us. We smoked them on their own floor and basically, yeah, ended the series effectively today. And they deserve props for that. Like, I'm happy to see them playing this way because, you know, at various points in the season, I'm like, man, I don't know. Is this the kind of team that could challenge Boston, like seriously in the Eastern Conference finals? And just watching these guys handle their business and play at their best, they feel like a championship contender type of team, which is exciting to see. Because, like, unlike OKC, where, you know, most people are like, no, yeah, yeah, no, this is a championship contended team.

I think the cabs people had to be brought along with that thought the five All-Star Hawks coming up and stuff like that. I think it's been nice. I thought it was nice today that they showed that they were a little bit more than just some nice story.

I know it's not groundbreaking to suggest that like getting an easier opponent if you finish with the best record is an advantage. It feels like more of an advantage than it ever before because if you look at like the Thunder for instance, Like, let's say the Nuggets make it out of that presumably six, probably seven game series.

Like, is Yokic going to have to like use a marionette in order to be his fifth teammate at some points? Versus the, you know, like the calves, for instance, are going to waltz probably into the second round. Whereas, like, you have Jalen Brown basically complaining that the magic are playing too tough against him. Like, that might go six. And all of a sudden, like, those guys might be more injured. Like it does seem like those like compounding effects matter more than ever before. And just getting the first seat is probably going to make a huge difference more so than it has in the past. I think especially because the Cavs bench is so good.

And so when you get into some of these later series when the stars on other teams might already be feeling the effects of playing three series in a row, one against Orlando Magic. You know, the other one might be more of a dog fight than they expect. And all of a sudden you're playing the Cavs. We're already seeing how like Ty Jerome and DeAndre Hunter can kind of keep applying pressure. on teams when they come in and like the fact that those two guys get to play with either Jared Allen or Evan Mobley for basically all their minutes on the floor, an incredible luxury. And one that I think is what lends itself to the Cavs being really over the course this entire season, but we saw it in this game in particular, just one of the best burst

teams as far as like they can roll off an 18-0 run, a 20 to 2 run like it's nothing. And some of that becomes down to like their offense and the firepower being what it is. But like those guys can guard too. Like they can get after. They can protect the rim. they're not that way all the time, like fully on a string defensively every minute that they're out there,

but they guard at a high level enough that you really feel the heat coming from their offense. It's good. Feel the heat. I say what you do there. I wish I hadn't, unfortunately, but sometimes you walk into it.

Hunter was awesome in this game. Tide Jerome, always awesome. Can't wait to see him later in the playoffs when he'll get more shine. I know. He's been very good and he's will continue to be very good. Jared Allen, a playoff career high 22 points. Friend of the pod,

Jared Allen. Just carving these dudes up on the backside. Unfortunately for the heat, we're not going to wait for their fourth game. We have to convene the war room because we need to get ahead on the long-term planning. Just a little barely because nothing else is going to go on here. I would say the heat at a similar place as the Grizzlies where they have something, maybe on a lesser tier, but they have something, but I'm not quite sure where they go from here. their picks slightly encumbered because they owe a lottery protected pick in 2027 to the Hornets that becomes our project next year.

It just becomes a little difficulty, a little difficult with the Stepian role there. But they basically have an option to determine who they are at this point. And I think they have a similar sort of question where it's like, do you want to take a step back or do you really want to punch it forward? And you guys might be saying it's fucking South Beach. Like what are we talking about here? My problem is like, let's say they get anybody. Let's just say Kevin Durant for a sake of conversations. Sure.

Is Kevin Durant, Tyler Hero, Bam out of bio, like lighting the world on fire at any point? It's not nothing. It's not nothing, but is it enough in order to deal with the cabs, for instance? But again, you sped past the operative point here, which is you work for Pat Riley. And therefore, we are moving forward. No, I am Pat Riley. Oh, you're Pat Riley. Oh, you're Pat Riley.

Okay. In that case, you're not yelling at us enough. You need to be much angry. We can make that happen. Yeah, I just think there's never going to be a point at which they really step back. I think it's just going to be forward, forward, forward all the way through. But what is your advice, Waz? Like, this is, speak freely here.

I mean, what's out there besides KD? And I wonder how much it would take to get them in there in terms of what they have to send back to the Sons. again, we just mentioned the names, Trey Young, like, who were they going to call about that would realistically be available? Would you call on someone like Zion? Yes.

Yeah, I think that would be the kind of low-risk kind of move. Low risk? Yeah, I mean, it's a team-friendly deal. I mean, that part, yes. And if they could be like, look, we get this guy a change of scenery and we do the military shit that we do down here where we like literally measuring guys body fats

on their guts and all of that stuff. Like that's something I would take a flyer on it. Like how much years is left on Zion's deal? It can't possibly be like... There's a couple more. Yeah, a crazy amount of years. That's the, yeah, that's a fun kind of idea because, you know, you basically bet on your institutional excellence

to get this guy over the hump. And I still do think Zion, when he's right, is capable of being an all-star level player, but when is this guy ever been right? And I mean, I think you gotta believe at this point it's just not going to happen

for him in New Orleans. So he's got three more full seasons guaranteed, three more full seasons under contract, partial guarantee slash non-guarantees ultimately. Like if something devastating happened, you would not be financially responsible. But, I mean, I don't even know what it would take to get Zion at this point.

Like, his market is impossible to establish, is there a realm of possibility for the heat to trade for someone like him without giving up Bam or Tyler Hero who are the core of your team at this point? I think Norland wants to get rid of Zion despite what they're saying, pulling back and basically be like,

there's no mandate to get rid of them. There's a mandate to get rid of them. They don't change the organization over just to bring back the same problems that they had. And so I would guess he's available for what, I would say probably less than me assume, but you're inheriting all the same problems on the one hand. I think Zion needs Miami.

He needs rigidity. He needs the structure. Unfortunately, I think there's like a very real possibility that he ends up with like Sam Rockwell in the White Lotus. And he just goes off and we just don't hear from that guy for years. He's doing all types of stuff. He thinks he's some other type of person.

I'll tell you what. There's no shortage of the type of chick. Zion has shown himself to be into it South Beach. I'll tell you that much. These are the type of scouting reports. You don't. get outside of the war room. There's no shortage of them, boy.

I just don't know what the heat are anymore, which is surprising because even in the post-Labron period. But it's what they always are, though? Like, when they're not actually really good, they're always in some in-between purgatory phase. Like, this is always it.

This is the white side years. This is the Dionne Waiters' years. Like, this is what is always happening with this organization. And like, would you guys recommend getting, I guess getting KD would be just a lot better than what they are right now. Yeah. More fun. They'd be fun.

Yeah, it'd be a fun, like top four seed probably. And, you know, they've been dying for KD pretty much since he went to Golden State. Like, they thought they were in on KD for, on the, when he did the Brooklyn thing. They thought they were in on him when he ended up going to the Phoenix Suns. And so, yeah, maybe they finally get their guy, their white whale. if you will and they complete the circle. I don't mind it

and I don't mind it in part because I think Tyler Hero has done a good enough job of being a functional point guard but not the kind of functional point guard that's going to make your offense elite on its own. He needs a really high level offensive player to kind of co-pilot with. Is Kevin Durant that guy at this age

more or less, certainly hyper-efficient on individual level, but we saw what happened in Phoenix when he was playing alongside a night quite good combo guard. And it wasn't anything good, frankly. But these are the options that I think the heat are going to have in front of them, right?

They are just good enough offensively for us to praise Tyler Hero and admire what he's doing. They're just competent enough defensively for us to look at Bam and say, job well done, bam out of bio. Like, you know, you're a really good team defender and kind of just consistently outside that really elite class of defender

that could carry a system all your own. What do you need to get over the top? The answer's like, a little of everything in every place of the rotation. Like the depth is not good enough. The high-end star power isn't good enough. But spots number two and three on the depth chart are quite good. I just don't know what you do with a team like that.

And see, this is what I want to go out on because at a certain time, maybe like a year ago or two years ago, I'd say the heat are very good at drafting lower in the lottery or even beyond that. They find guys, hero and bam, were two draft picks that they built up into the players that they are now. Well, but that's the thing. beyond where it gets a little dicey a little quickly. Hakez

can't even get into a playoff rotation where there's a lot of guys. He should be beating out at this point. He'll Ljvich. Definitely his wane since last year he showed promise. Don't think he's ultimately going to be a solution. He had some injury issues as well this season. It's like maybe a healthy Yovitch season is a little better

than this, but it's not changing your world. Yeah. And so like they have the 20th pick in this draft. They basically fall five places from the draft pick they're giving away to the thunder they get back the warriors so not that much different they're going to get a similar type of player that it's really more of a bet probably a rotation player probably not much better and so the feeder system just isn't there at this point like i just they're like they lack talent in a way that i'm surprised by because they actually maintained a lot of the assets that they would typically trade away in previous years can i tell you the good news

the bottom of the Eastern Conference is dog shit and they're going to be right back in the plan next year even if they don't do anything facts can I ask you this if you were to rank the young players how would you organize them if it's where Hakez Yovic I mean where's number one with the bullet

yeah for sure what is the next suit such a toolsy guy I mean Yovic is playable Hakez is had a really rough trajectory just a terrible player this year that's crazy yeah it's got to be yo vitch he actually played in games that mattered this year

what's the coach is just telling you like this guy's not good he just doesn't have it what's the cutoff for young players like is davion mitchell still a young player he's 26 i want to say yeah i mean he's a little bit older um going on his second contract next year which is probably the line of demarcation yeah but certainly well as we compare heat teams present to past you know like the uh ultimately the teams that they overpaid for, the James Johnson, Dionne Waiters, kinds of teams. The good news is, even though this team technically overperformed and technically made the playoffs, there aren't a bunch of guys in line for huge paydays, right? There's not a bunch of expiring contracts where you're going to say, you know what,

Kelly Olenick, here's your big new deal to carry us into the new era of heat basketball. Like, this is their team. And they're kind of locked in at their current salary numbers unless they start moving guys, like Andrew Wiggins, I'm sure has more value elsewhere than here, frankly, given his fit with the team. Like, I understand why they would want someone with this kind of like situational upside, but I don't know. I just, I just don't like this roster very much. Yeah. Eric Spolstra showed up to the postgame press conference with like a gold chain on, like a very like divorced dad sort of thing going on here. So like, boy. It's a whole new era.

South Beach, baby. Let's go. Last thing before we get out here, uh, before game three, we in the group chat, group trap, we're talking about the horse heads that they gave out on the wall, which I thought was inspired. Apparently, for this game, they gave out a bunch of stuffed dino chicken nuggets to distract the nuggets. What's the story there? Because they're nuggets. Well, but why would that distract them?

Wouldn't you just say what's with that stuffed dinosaur? How would you even idea it as a nugget? Maybe it was like a playoff of Mr. Nugget. Maybe they're like trying to get in Aaron Gordon's head. Marketing needs to go back. GameOps needs to go back to the Jordan. board with that. I feel like this was Jurassic World Spawn

Con. Like they infiltrated what was a good bit into now a marketing bit and I don't appreciate it. Those horse heads aren't going to pay for themselves you know. What are they? 9.95? Like they can't be that expense. Okay, nothing is 995 these days. 1995? Maybe some sushi.

Maybe some Wal-Queen sushi. Probably definitely made in China too. Yeah. All right. I want to know the tariffs on the horse heads. What are we paying? I'm just like, bro. All right.

Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz for staying up late with us. We'll be back Wednesday night into Thursday morning for the next round of games. We will talk to you. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C. Gambling problem.

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