The Ringer NBA Show - 'Group Chat': Houston Is Good, OKC Is Bad, and Hezonja Is Back (Ep. 178)

Episode Date: December 14, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are joined by Danny Chau and Haley O’Shaughnessy to throw out some LeBron relocation theories (0:50), try to pinpoint what's wrong with the Thunder (3:30), gush about the Rockets (14:45), and answer some rapid-fire questions (21:10). Then they bring back 'Take Tank' (27:25) and try guess the narrative for the upcoming Lakers-Cavaliers game (41:25). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Basketball is very good. The Rockets are better without Chris Paul. Janus will win the MVP. What if Kyrie Irving is actually God? Basketball is very good. Hello, and welcome to NBA group chat. My name is Chris Ryan. I am joined by Danny Chow.

Hello. Justin Verrier. Hi. Haley O'Shaugh. Oh, it's a new look for you. I know. It's hard to say hello. Guys, great day in the NBA.

Any day is a great day in the NBA, because that means there's basketball. And then we were to talk about it. We were going to start with the Thunder. I'm wearing a Thunder hat. I feel like the ringer is getting a rep for being anti-Thunder, and I just want to be a bulwark against that, you know? Counterpoint, everyone is turning anti-Thunder.

We'll get to the Thunder in just a second. I do want to leave with LeBron. Just because Justin's eyes lit up at the thought of the king coming to his hometown, Well, not your adopted hometown, I guess. Of Connecticut, Hartford, Connecticut? Yeah, so there was an article that did it go up today? Yes, on ESPN. Yeah.

Yeah, basically, it was just kind of reading the tea leaves of what's going on with LeBron. Brian Winhorst, Ramona Shelburne. I think some of the didn't really pinpoint any team specifically, but it kind of laid out just, you know, the groundwork for what's going on with him. It's basically saying, you know, let's wait until the end of the year. Let's see how all these teams do. I just thought it was interesting some of the nuggets. they dropped in there, specifically about the rockets.

Okay. That's the team I think that is kind of built momentum as kind of the destination du jour of one LeBron James. Jonathan Sharks wrote about it for us on the ringer. Maybe I'm a kind of USA Today thinking about it. Right. So there's definitely, there are whispers in the background and this could be a legit destination. And I think it was just kind of pointing out that maybe the ties to Chris Paul aren't

necessarily what's going to dictate it. Sure. I don't know. Danny, you had some thoughts, right? Do I? I really don't. Is that more because you're just like, it's way too early to start wondering where LeBron should go?

I mean, kind of, this is kind of the, the news cycle that happened in 2010 when he was, you know, planning his decision back then. It was like basically every team that he went to

that was a possible destination, there would be some sort of piece that came out being like, oh, let's lay out the possibility here. It's just like, Ola Depot and Turner? Could that be the place? It's a little too early.

It's a little too early for me. LeBron once liked a picture of an Indy 500 car. Haley, is this something that you want for your life? Is Laker LeBron? Laker LeBron? Yeah. Oh, definitely. I thought you were going to say Rockets, LeBron,

which I do think would work out in a way that the Thunder Big Three hasn't. But because we've seen like Chris Paul, you know, like he doesn't need to handle everything all the time. And I thought that he was lying when he said that's like, not what he wanted because I'm like, you're Chris Paul. But I do think that it would work out in a way. I mean, Miami is a good example of him working out with two other really talented players. But he was definitely the alpha there. And he was.

And Wade and Bosch changed their games to adjust to him. Right. And we are getting to that point where LeBron is at once the best player in the league. But I do think that if he were to move teams again, I guess if we went to the Lakers and the Lakers essentially built the team around and we wouldn't be saying this. But if you were to go to the Rockets, I think that there would be an adjustment. And that actually does segue in talking about the Thunder a little bit, who won last night, 195 against the critical darling Indiana Pacers.

If you have not had a chance, please read Kevin O'Connor's piece about Victoro on the Ringer this week. It's really great. And he just goes into real great detail about how eating gluten will turn you into an all-star shooting guard, apparently. I will never be an all-star shooting card. Yeah, eating gluten will make you a good blogger. Can we just go fake news, real news? like you just stop eating gluten and you get you get swole like that he looks incredible after like two weeks but like it's like may 15th to june 3rd that's nuts yeah he just looks like a completely different

person there's this instagram with a before and after i just want to know what he is eating instead of gluten yeah like i eat sandwiches at least twice a week like is it mostly plant base what's going on there's gluten free bread okay so he still has just don't eat bread yeah yeah yeah well what is it what is the upside of gluten free bread you still have have imitation bread, I guess. But is it like the carbs or what? I honestly have no idea. This is the worst conversation

for possibly be having for me. I guess it's like Odules. You just need that in your life. Yeah, you just want the sense memory. Okay, great. So let's go from O'Dul's to the Thunder. They won a game last night. They won a game despite Mello, George, and Russ

going 10 for 45 from the field. After the game, and I'm paraphrasing for the LOLs, but Mello basically said that one of the problems they've been facing is the shots that they're getting are too good and that they're all used to like creating their own shots, creating their own space, having to create their own offense. And the few times per game that the ball does swing to the open man, they're almost stunned with the opportunity.

I love that. Strongly disagree. Quick snap pull. What do you think of that? I love when anyone can say something is too good. That is true. Never too good. Nothing can ever be too good.

Now, to be fair, I'm definitely rewriting Mello's quote, but not significantly. No, and I think it's telling that now after a Thunder game, pretty much all of NBA Reddit is like plays where Mello is like full of shit. Yeah. It's like Mellow doesn't get back on defense. Reddit slash Justin. Yeah, I wish I had my own page. Someone should do that. No, but it's like Mel not getting back on defense or Mello kind of glaring at Russell Westbrook because Russell Westbrook didn't get back on.

defense. It's really turning in. It feels like for a while it was very much against Russ, but now it feels like the tide is turning toward Mello because he is kind of the squeaky wheel of this entire operation. Okay, Sarah, Huckabee Sanders. Haley, the Thunder feel like a college football team to me now because it feels like every game they play

means so much. It's under so much scrutiny. The same way like in college football, they're just like, well, did you win, but did you win by enough? And did you win, like, did you have a cool, like, was this, if you did get a victory, was it against an opponent that we can like, actually tells us something about your performance. And that's unlike any other team out there right now, like, we're 16 and 11 or 14 to 14. And it's like, oh, good. Good job, Pelicans. You guys are

keeping it together. Yeah. But the thunder. Yeah, it's like they didn't win again. You know what I mean? They haven't won the last four of six or whatever. I'm just making that number up. But college football, they play like a seventh or an eighth of the game. Sure. So those are definitely more important, but I know that the heat is on them. But I also think it's like the same problems with them are consistent through everyone. Mello won't spot up. Russ won't move without the ball. I mean, there's that video going around showing all these examples of him passing the ball away. And if it's not his possession, he's just hanging out at the three-point line. He just is like 35 feet away from basketball. And Paul George won't like initiate his own offense. You know, I don't know what the deal is, but he's like taken a

back seat to not being quite as involved in that sense. And so I think that it's kind of off-putting for him too. Do you know who isn't struggling right now? Go for it. So have you always been A Brina's hive? Is this recent? Is it because of your similarities in like, you know, beard structure? I wish I had the chops that that guy has, both playing wise and facial hair wise.

No, honestly, I remember before the season hearing about like how he was set to like break through before. I think they even got mellow. I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then when I was like required to have a take, I was like, that's my take. Is it just come? Is this the key?

No, it's just come to life. So I guess the moral is just, stick to your guns and hope that they are correct. Danny, you're a connoisseur of offense. Seven seconds or less, changed your life. The other night, you tweeted a lovely Brett Brown drawn-up play. What was that one for the Sixers play? Yeah.

Double snap. It was snap double. Well, no, no, I was sharing from a tweeter, I believe. His name is Ryan Wynn. Okay. Great X is a nose guy. You should follow him on Twitter. Yeah, where are you going to?

Well, I was just wondering, like, as some, you know, so you do recognize. nice good, good plays when you see them. Billy Donovan came out and was pretty chippy about, you know, he's like, look, the thing that you guys need to understand is that I love the way our offense is playing and I think we're really moving the ball. They are last in the league and passes per game, so he's wrong. There's a lot of things that are up for debate, but this one isn't. That being said, is there anything about this under offense that you think is working?

And is there anything that you're like, oh, you can kind of see where they could just have some small improvements and get better, or is it too many of the wrong pieces trying to fit together? I keep going back to the idea that, you know, the shots that they're getting are too good. And it, it's, so basically Donovan is alluding to the fact that, you know, his players aren't accustomed to having that kind of rhythm, and they basically aren't being able to generate that kind of rhythm. The weird thing is, I've never really thought of Westbrook as a rhythm player. He's just a guy who has, like, all out energy, and that energy is kind of what's stains him on the court. So I don't think he's factoring into this, but like Mello and Paul George,

they both come from very different situations where, again, they're both alphos or whatever. So yeah, I mean, I guess that kind of plays into the whole offense here. Like, they don't know what to do with their hands when they have an open shot, I guess. But I don't know. Like, I feel like that is a pointed, you know, comment to his other two stars, because you can't really do anything with with Westbrook in that scenario because back when Westbrook and Durant were kind of 1A, 1A, 1B, Durant was a mismatch for everyone in the league,

so it's not like he needed to get into rhythm. He was kind of always in that rhythm. They both kind of played off the fact that neither of them needed to get into a rhythm because they could just generate whatever they needed. With Mello and George, it's an adjustment, but... I actually do think that the one person that we haven't really been hearing from much

in this whole season, more or less. and it's not that unusual, given his relationships of the media. But Russell doesn't really talk that much. You know what I mean? And his answers, you can only evaluate them based on their tone. You can't really evaluate them based on this quotes themselves. So a lot of his answers are just like, we just have to play better. He sounds like Belichick, honestly.

He's just like, we just have to do our jobs better and execute better down the stretch. But you get some of that kind of more thoughtful and engaging stuff from Paul, George, and Carmelo and even from Donovan. And I don't even, it's interesting because I just feel like Russell is so stubborn and won't kind of even say like, look, like I have a speed that I play at and these guys need to play at that speed. Or maybe I should play off the ball in terms of initiating the offense because for as much as my full court bull rushes can get us a lot of points in a game, they're clearly like leaving out for the other four players who are like used to a different kind of setup. I don't know. I will say this. I don't mind where they're at the season,

but this is the same thing we have with Cleveland in the beginning of the year. We're like, what's going to happen to Cleveland? Their defense is so bad, they're going to figure it out, and then they just rattle off double-digit win streak and are basically, they're basically winning all their games and just dropping little ones here and there now.

I just cannot, that is not something I can see for the Thunder this year. I don't see them rattling off 10 in a row. I think that they're going to squeak into the playoffs, and I have really bad feeling about the way that this all ends up next summer. What do you think? Well, yeah, because it's like if they don't figure it out, Paul George isn't going to be around. Right. I think that... Maybe mellow. Yeah, maybe mellow too. I think that a lot more of this might be on Russ wanting more. And maybe that's why he's so

quiet. Maybe he wants Paul George to be more of an alpha. I feel like this is like a weird comparison. You don't think so? I'm wondering if like he expected it to be kind of like, okay, finally, like Katie left. Like I had to do everything. You know what I mean? mean and now he's like, well, this is the thing. We don't know. We don't know whether he actually secretly loved it being Russ and the bad news bears and him having 45 point games against Orlando Magic to win in the last second.

And every night it was like Rudy or something. Yeah, but don't you think he knows with the way he plays that that's not sustainable? Well, it seemed like he was having a really good time last year. And not only just playing the way he was playing, but even the way he turned it into like WWE off the court, just kind of feeding into the Kevin Durant thing. I think that's an interesting parallel where Durant, for obvious reasons, but also because of his personality, he kind of shies away from that whole part of it, the cupcake stuff. Like, yeah, he took some shots after he won a title, but he really kind of abstained from

that conversation, whereas Russ was going full on trolling with his outfits, with what he was saying in interviews. And so I think he likes the theatrics. And I think he likes kind of being the antagonist, just like in general, just like that's like his base level. But being the villain gets old. Remember that? For us, for sure.

Yeah, well, no, even for the players, I think. And, yeah, Westbrook is kind of like to an extreme with his personality. But when LeBron was in Miami, you know, after the first year, he was like being the villain sucks. Yeah. But by the end of Miami, he was, like, doing commercials where he's riding bikes around Miami with kids. And it's like, oh, LeBron, Miami, this is so fun. The Beatles, you know, it's like. Right.

So, yeah. The other thing is, like, LeBron feeds off joy. Like, early in his calves run, there were, like, the team there, like, it didn't have a lot of stars, but they got along so well. Like I remember when he was on those MVP runs, just those photos of where they would pretend to take team photos, like right before the game. Like, LeBron is like a really joyful, good teammate.

And it seems like the villain part of it, like, took him out of who he was, whereas I feel like Russ almost like that is his base level. Like that's who he is. And it's more drawing out the good stuff out of him in order to make him successful. Like when I look at Russ these days, I just see him going full Kobe to a certain extent. Yeah. It's really interesting. And this team is playing like that Lakers team with Nash and Howard.

A hundred percent. And it's interesting to see Russ do that in this age, whereas like what we knew about the game, kind of like the advanced analytics, like what like leads to good basketball, kind of caught up with Kobe. Whereas like the ground was laid for Russ to where like if he kept playing this way, it was going to catch up to him. And I think that's part of why the backlash has been so significant. So they, that's a super team that's obviously not working out.

The Rockets, though. We ever, I feel like, I don't talk enough about them, probably. I have to say, though, it was an unremarkable 10896 victory over the Hornets last night. They were home. The Hornets did not look like they wanted to be there. I feel like the Kemba Walker's full, like, his like white undershirt is like a metaphor for how he's feeling right now. I just haven't quite figured out how. But at one point in the game, the Rockets went on a 25-0-0 run.

That was the closest thing I've seen to the Warriors other than the Warriors in the last. four years. And it was the first time that I was like, they could go after these guys. Also, just watching the way that Dan Tony staggers minutes and watching Chris Paul just incinerate the Hornet second unit. It is unbelievable. And then when he's playing with Hardin, I remember he had said when he first got there and he was only played like a couple of preseason games and he played like the first game obviously before he got injured. And Drew League. But he was like, this is so cool. I don't have to dribble the ball as much. I don't have to orchestrate everything.

And I was like, come on, man. Like, you're really going to not want to orchestrate everything? And then last night, I was just watching, he's like standing on the wing with his hands on his knees. Like, the kind of thing that would usually get you yanked from like a youth basketball game. And he's just like, I'm chilling. Like, this is fine.

Hardin can have an ISO. They lead the league in isolation plays, percentage of isolation plays per game. I don't know. The idea of just Paul being on the court, they have a plus 37 net rating. These are just, like, insane stats. And the fact that this is what Dan Tony's doing other than Donovan,

different than Donovan, is he is like, I have all these pieces on any given night, I can rest this guy a little bit, but still play it. I can throw this lineup out there. I can play Ryan Anderson at 5. I can play Chris Paul against a backup point guard, which is essentially torture. I mean, I actually still find them a little dull to watch,

but they are, actually, I do think they are a threat to the Warriors, for sure. Well, that's where the Warriors comparison comes in, right? or even people asking the question, can they beat the Warriors, is that the great thing about Golden State has always been that one of their guys can be gone and they'll still be good. And something that's so clear with Hardin and Chris Paul is that, yeah, they play together and it's amazing, but they can also play without each other and still be great. Yeah, they're definitely an interesting team to juxtapose with the Thunder just because you look at what Dan Tony has been able to do. Chris is laughing at it.

just what Dan Tony's been able to do with two guys, who stars who seemingly have like overlapping skill sets that might butt as a result of only having the one ball. And the way he's been able to stagger them and just take advantage of what they do so well has been amazing. And the fact that Hardin had his moment, he's still probably the leader for MVP,

if not LeBron James. And now you see Chris Paul kind of get back from the injury and kind of kick it into his second gear where he could still be that guy. And like, honestly, you should show Mello these games. Like, this is what you can do if you just mesh with what everyone else is doing. Yeah, I know, I'm going to orchestrate a trade to Houston next year.

It's a lot easier to buy in when you're winning. Yes, obviously. Yes, yes. That's a thing. Yes, but also the Thunder aren't winning because of Melo. He's right. There was a play last night where there was like, Paul was bringing it up and he had Ryan Anderson and Trevor Rees on the wings.

And Trevor Reza was wide open. And had run the full floor, like had done something on defense to get the turnover and then like sprinted. and I think you could just feel like he was just like and for my reward I get the ball and Chris Paul sort of looked off he looked him and then no looked to Ryan Anderson on the left and Ryan Anderson sunk like a 33 footer and it's like if that goes in

everybody will be happy if it doesn't Trevor Reza is like what are you doing like somebody else is like hey I was like running the court like I went the whole length like you gotta slow it down and hit me up I mean the thing is they also take like 43s a game so like everyone is getting those shots Yeah. But yeah, like this Chris Paul is exactly the Chris Ball I thought was going to happen

because Jonathan Charks has written about this in the past. He's just so smart. He's so good in the regular season because he's so smart and he's so perceptive of every team's weaknesses, especially like a team like the Hornets who aren't very good. You know, he's going to be able to beat up on these teams with his eyes closed. And so this is just kind of like he's playing, you know, shoots and ladders right now. Yeah.

Well, I feel like Paul is the type of. guy based on the conversations we have about him, based on his lack of success in the playoffs, that's the type of thing that eats at him. Like, he's going to do whatever is possible to change that mellow. I'm sorry to say, is this type of guy who's just going to go off and do mellow and like sell hoodies now. Well, I think the other thing to consider with all these thunder comparisons, which I agree with all of them, is that Chris Paul, you know, and James Harden talked before he went there. And Chris Paul was probably like, this is exactly what I want. And this is exactly how I feel like we'll be better is if I'm off the ball.

And with Paul George and with Mello, they were both like, look, get me out of here to their old teams. So they didn't really pick the thunder. They didn't really pick Russ. It was more about leaving that situation than finding the best situation. Right. Yes. And I think we've talked about this before about the idea of whether the Mello trade was a trade too much.

Was just like one extra like heat check move. Are you doubting? No. Actually, I'm just saying if they, we talked about this, if they had just run out Russ, PG, Adams, and then shooters and defenders, they probably would be in more games,

and I actually think the expectations for them would be a little bit better adjusted. Let's just do some rapid-fire questions based on... We can't even talk about the Rockets without matching with us. Oh, I'm sorry. Who's your favorite Rockets bench guy? I wanted to ask it. PJ Tucker.

Pejee-J-Tucker. He's not a bench guy, but I just want to shout out Capella. Capella is awesome. Oh, my God. He's great. Pella is basically like, oh, like, let's reboot D'Andre Jordan. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, Luke is my favorite. Is he going to be out for a while? He is going to be out for a little while. He is a shoulder thing we were talking about before we recorded. But like, this dude is basically one of the most important role players on one of the most important teams at the end of his career. That's like amazing. Plus minus God, anybody else besides those guys that you want to shot?

This is so like, whatever, Haley, that's not creative. But it's Eric Gordon. Yeah. How could it not be Eric Gordon? Yeah. I mean, he's amazing. He could be like a very important player for another team. And he says like, I'm going to hang here and, you know, kill.

Oh, man. Remember those Pelican's days? I try not to. Here's some rapid-fire questions that are kind of drawn from last night's action before we move forward. Haley, is Hizonia good? After last night, I'm going to say, yeah. Yeah? No, but I want him to be good so badly.

And now we clear out for Danny. My God. Okay, so I haven't had that much joy watching a magic game in at least two years. He was incredible. What happened two years? ago. Good question. I don't remember.

You got 20 and 20. They lost to the books. There was a play. Hosonia almost dunks in Aleut. He gets fouled on it, so he gets the two free throws. But there was another play where he was dribbling the ball up the court. Alfred Payton was calling for the ball because he's the point guard. Hazonia waves him off, throws a pass straight to their big man.

I can't remember who actually caught the ball scored. But it was just like, holy shit. It was Vooch. It was like that he had to get through like a bullet pass underneath to boot. Yeah. Hazonia should be playing point guard. He should be playing stretch four for them. He's Duran.

He's Duran. Hoseonia Hive on Twitter has gotten to me. So, uh, we're here. Uh, I don't know if he can dribble in the NBA. Just FYI. There's a couple of like, I dribble like that moments. Haley, is Trey Lyle's good? Uh, almost.

Okay. Almost? Justin. Probably not. He had a really good dunk last day. And he's getting minutes. That's why I thought I would... Yeah, I think it speaks more to the Nuggets

just having so many, like, backup fours and that like none of them work every single night. It's good that they have a lot of them. They could just, like, shuffling up. And he's in his third year, which is usually when guys pick up. I love them come out of college, though. I thought he was like...

Because he played that three and that, like, huge Kentucky team. I thought like, oh, maybe if you just slide him down a little bit, he has enough shooting. But he's almost like too much of a big for that stretch four these days, I think. He had a really good game in front of his hometown.

in Indiana. He was hitting, he was like four or five from three in that game. So he looked really good. And it's, with him, it was just like, he had a really promising rookie year. And then last year he kind of was put to the end of the bench because they were a playoff team. They couldn't really risk putting out, you know, a youngster out there. But with him, it was just a matter of getting minutes, getting an opportunity.

I think he's fine. I don't know if he's like their future. Here's just, I, this is something I would love to see in the NBA is that every player just basically has to go play for their hometown their home state or hometown team at some point. Because the Oladipo on the Pacers thing has really gotten me like, what if Lyles went back to the Pacers? That would be dope. Like everybody should just go back to their hometowns

just for one season. Only if they like their hometowns. Maybe it's like this is a same. I don't care about that. I just want to see them in their hometown. Yeah, last night was the first Pacer game. I think I watched all seasons. So maybe not. Maybe not the Pacer specifically. Okay, last one before we move on, are the Raptors the best team in the East?

Not quite Not quite Cleveland LeBron still exists Boston has been good So Justin Raptors still a snooze fest to me You know what

I'm holding out hope That their bench returns Sorry for the ringer curse you guys But I will stick with it They are the best team in east My contribution to the ringer curse broke last night

Because Portland won Okay So and The ringer curse is that every time We are like We write about a team And we're like Glowingly

Who's right? Yeah. Yeah. And thank God that nothing has impacted Yonis yet. But for the most part, when we write about teams, they tend to go on losing streaks. I think the, like the subtle thing about this is that we just write about all the teams. Yes. And then we can take credit for all the streaks.

Yeah. So eventually we're going to be wrong at some point. I really want to say that the Raptors are the most complete team in the East. And I... Okay. Sure. I just... There's an argument for that.

But it's hard because, like, I watched them against Phoenix last night. I was like, this is impossible to judge any team against Phoenix. But I liked all the different looks they could throw at them. and I liked how even towards the end of the game, I felt like they were going to Jonas a lot. And it was just like they can be big, they can be small, they can be all shooters,

they can be running you off the court. So I like the variety of looks they can throw, but I think Boston also could do that. Yeah, Gordon Hayward walking around without a boop and playing video games. So inspiring. That's a shtick. That's cool. Okay.

Actually, I do have one more rapid-fire question, and it's, will the jazz ever win again? I'd like to read off their schedule. Hit me. In the future. on December 15th they play the Celtics after that back to back they play the calves then they'll play the rockets then they'll play the thunder

which maybe then they play the spurs then they play the thunder again then they play the nuggets which hopefully will be some relief then the Warriors calves and pelicans how many times they play the calves they're twice in that that's wild yeah it's terrible do you think they won again

in 2017 In 2017? Yeah, I think at least two times. Okay. I think one of those Thunder games will be a bailout. Sure. All right. What's the problem?

With what? The jazz? The problem with them never beating any of those teams? Any teams. Aren't they also like, how many of they lost? Aren't they like losing games now? So yeah, they're on a three, no, four game winnings. Oh, you mean the current.

Okay. Yeah. The current problem. They're on a four game losing streak. Right. To the, their last loss was to the Bulls. Not great. but Mirage season.

Yeah, Mirage is back. Haley, maybe it's, maybe they're emphasizing Donovan Mitchell too much, like a little too much too early too soon? Absolutely not. Probably. I mean, when you think about it, they had such balance,

you know what I mean? Maybe it's time to turn. They had such balance in what? In what? I'm just messing with you. Let's stop and take a break from our sponsors. Hey, this is JJ Reddick. You may know me as a basketball player.

You may have seen me play during my college career at Duke University. or perhaps over the past decade playing in the NBA for the magic, the bucks, the clippers, or the Sixers. Well, today I'm here to tell you about my show, the JJ Redick podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. This is where you can find me interviewing athletes as well as in-depth conversations with celebrities. So make sure to subscribe to the JJ Reddick podcast wherever you get your podcast. All right, welcome back to group chat. This is a segment we like to call Take Tank.

We're dusting this off. We did do a video of Take Tank a long time ago. you can find it on all of the proper ringer video channels like YouTube and etc. We can even tweet it out, maybe, if you guys are unfamiliar with it. But basically the idea is this. You present a take. The panel of sharks here decide whether or not they're going to invest in that take based on its validity. So we're going to start with Haley.

You know, I'd actually like to go last. I want everyone to be warmed up, you know, ready with their investments. Okay. Wow. Justin. All right. Hello, sharks. I have the perfect investment for you guys.

I would like to introduce to you a guy I call Paul George. Paul George, All-Star in the NBA, also going to be a free agent next year. I think everybody is assuming that he's going to just flee to Los Angeles, his hometown? hometown? Yeah? Yeah, like, right? He's L.A. adjacent, right? Okay, he's in the general vicinity. Palmdale, yeah. Sure, yeah. Yeah, he probably has a vast collection of sunglasses or something. So I would... That's just because he owns a sunglasses hut franchise. Yes, exactly. A lot of Raybans. So I think it's assumed that he would go to Los Angeles. Maybe LeBron James would follow him there to be a part of that scene.

I would say this. I think one James Harden had a good idea. Well, he got traded, but I think it worked out for him going from the Thunder to Houston. Paul George should follow him because that's where all good Thunder superstars go. The Trevor Arisa upgrade button. So how would that work? Tell us how that work. It would be very tough.

I think the way you would work it is that Chris Paul. and maybe some of the free agents that the rockets have right now would have to take the pay cuts in order to work George into there. I think Paul is the type of guy who might be willing to do it. I thought it was interesting just in the story on ESPN today. Basically, LeBron isn't willing to go below the max. He's very interested in his agency and just kind of being the CEO of the league sort of thing. And I think for me, that signals that the rockets are going to be a tough fit,

that he would really have to change his just general disposition and position on the way he approaches the league to fit there. I think George makes a lot of sense with what the Rockets are doing. They're already kind of doing that sort of team where they're playing a little bit small on the wings, but still with Capella, I think he would just be an upgrade over Trevor Reza. How many guys would they have to, like, get rid of and renounce in this process?

It would be, it would be tough. Give me the ones they're going to hurt the most. Would they have to get rid of Eric Gordon? Gordon may be. Ryan Anderson is the big contract. I think he's making around 20 million. and as you've seen, he's kind of just falling back into this role as like a giant spot-up shooter.

And Arezzo as well, probably? I think Arizo is a free agent, right? So he would be coming off the books. Here's my thing with these teams that are having really hot starts or really great beginning parts of the season and a lot of them are playing 10-11 guys a night and they're getting good minutes from them. Boston was running out.

I thought there were guys coming in out of the crowd to play for Boston last night. If I'm like to Antonio and you're this good, I would really, really want to see what I could do against the Warriors this season because I like the depth. And I like the sort of the way you can mix and match a lineup. And I wouldn't want to give up too much to get Paul George. And I know that sounds weird. And Paul George is an elite perimeter defender and is a better player than Trevor oriza.

And probably he's better playing there, Eric Gordon. But I wouldn't want to lose too many pieces for that. No, I get what you mean because even for Chris Paul, I was like, oh, that was my favorite thing about the Rockets. Yeah. They had a million guys. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you.

I want to see what they do against the Warriors this year. I guess it just comes down to what they can do in the playoffs because obviously that's when your top guys are going to matter more than ever. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to have my Cayman Island and Shell Company

through a third party in Delaware make a shadow investment in this take. But I'm not willing to put my name on it. Danny, what's your take? I'm out on this take because he's going to be a warrior. Okay, so. You really think that's going to happen? Paul George of the Warriors?

where would he go? Like where can they fit him? Yeah. I don't know. I've seen plenty of warriors. People say Paul George is the next one up. If that happens, I'm officially getting into baseball.

I might not still do it. If Machado goes to the Phillies and Paul George goes to the Warriors, I would consider that a sign. And then I would just become, I would become Mr. Baseball guy. Yeah. You know that guy?

Utani seems interesting, so I could get on board with that. All right, Danny, do you have a take, Tank take. Wait, I didn't tell you guys if I was buying or not. I'm sorry, Haley, go ahead. I know, I'm like, what?

My bad. I will because I'm under LeBron's agency, so I'm overpaid. Your clutch? Yeah, I've got extra, so I'll buy it. You've peaked my interest. Yeah, so I wanted to bring this back to the ringer curses, and I just want to clear my name. So my take is Stan Van Gundy's decision to put Reggie Bullock

into the starting lineup will basically, supercharged the Pistons once again they will steamroll their next 10 games thereby absolving me from this curse and making me look like a genius again. You know, they play the Hawks next. They have the Hawks today. They played the Hawks. They played

the Magic twice. It's just their last seven games in which they've lost which were immediately after a post that I wrote. Let's take the Pistons. That was like it's time to take Andre Drummond and the Piston seriously. Yeah, I remember. Seven straight losses. Great headlines.

Great headline. It was very clickable. It's a lot of engagement. Very clear about what you're saying. Exactly. No, I ride for Reggie Bullock. I remember when the Clippers drafted him, I was like, oh, this is the guy that the Clippers need.

He's going to be the one that, like, opens things up. Didn't the Clippers drafting him throw you off that, though? It should have. But I was just like, oh, spot up shooter. Yeah. Like, this is what this team needs. Yeah. And then he never played for four years.

He barely played. He was in the D-League, like, almost his entire career. There are some teams you just get it together against. And I think that no. offense, but like the hawks and the magic. Have you thought about, I mean, what are some, have people been hitting you up and being like, can you write about this team? Can you write about it?

No. I mean, have you gotten any of my burner tweets that are like, I think Jason Tatum is really, really needs the Danny Chow treatment? No, actually, I didn't even find this on Reddit myself. I think it was Sean Yu that had posted it in the Slack that brought it up to my attention. And I tweeted it out. I think a lot of people had a good laugh at that. I don't think anyone's seen it as, like,

like a malicious thing that I'm not like out to, because look, I'm writing like lovingly about. Yeah, you're not being like, yeah, like get this guy out of here. But apparently the people of Detroit via one of our intern shocker have asked me to apologize. Look, I'll apologize if I'm wrong about this take. Do you think after that then you'll have like the yips and you'll just write like super safe take like take like this man, this stuff curry guy.

Like he's pretty good. I mean, I wrote that about Kauai last week. So, yeah. I care about you. I care about your ability to visit scenic Detroit in good health and just be able to stroll the streets and find and find the underground restaurants that nobody knows about. So I'm going to go, I'll go 50% on this take. If anybody wants to go in with me. Yeah.

They're beating the hawks. Great. We'll go 150% together. That's great. You're fully funded. Here's my take. Carl Anthony Towns. Unicorn.

Great podcast guest on the JJ Reddick. podcast this week. Fantastic. Let me tell you something. He is never going to recover from the Carl Anthony Cantor's nickname. Name an NBA superstar who has ever been saddled with a nickname that is like, you're bad at something and is recovered from it. Can't play Canter. Yeah, it's not great.

Well, I will say it wasn't a nickname, but I feel like we've gotten past the James Hardin can't play defense thing. Have we? At the very least. Oh, Hardin. Yeah, sure. Right. We don't like needle him every freaking night like we used to.

Right. But I think that that's probably also because he wasn't playing for Tibito. You know what he mean? And it was sort of the implication was that Mikhail maybe wasn't making him play defense or that they were saying like save yourself for the offense because you've got to do so much for us. Whereas Towns, I think the offense was there and we were like, Tibbs is here. He's going to turn him into this defensive dynamo and he's going to be the best player in the NBA and he's going to be in the MVP conversation. and it's gone from that to his teammates openly yelling at him on the court.

And I don't know where it originated from, but now people are joking about his nickname being Carl Anthony Cantor. And I just don't remember anyone making funny Tim Duncan jokes or anything like that. You know what I mean? Like it just feels like it's a vulnerability. So my take is that he is never recovering from this and that he is always going to be a good stats, bad team guy. Well, it's always been like kind of an undercover thing

about his defense. Not undercover, but it's like, who was watching Minnesota? You know what I mean? Minnesota. Yeah. And I don't know why, but me. Yeah. And now it's like a mainstream thing. Yeah. You know, he's not good at defense. So now people are like watching those games, of course, also because it's a sound cloud take that went into the charts. Yeah. Exactly. That's exactly what it is. So that's tough. You actually have to start playing defense. Like if nothing changes, yeah, that nickname's ride with you. I was already worried. But then he for some reasons tried to go at Joel Allen Bede on Joel Embed's own Instagram? It's like, what are you thinking?

And then Joel immediately just like took him out. Shut him down. Like, TK.O. Like, what were you doing? So Joel was like, it's a picture of him doing like his finger roll off the Eurostep. And he's like, we Euro stepped through Minnesota. And Carl Anthony Town's gotten Joel's Instagram comments and said, Trash photo quality, bro.

No, this caption is as trash as the photo quality. Right. It's like, what did you do? And then what did Joel say is like, better quality than your defense. I got to think that's. Come on, dog. I gotta think that's a joke. But even if a joke, like, that cuts deep.

First of all, both those guys are dorks. That's a really bad trash. Excuse me, sir. Not as bad as your photo image quality, sir. It's like, all right. Did you hear Joel, like, during one of their games, talking about, like, how he likes to, like, make jokes? He's like, I've always been a really funny person.

And I just like to joke around all the time. And I was like, funny people don't say that they're funny. When do they play the Kings? Somebody's going to rock Joel. Like, somebody is really. really, really going to do that. He's going to get bullied. So what do you guys think? You guys committing to my venture? I'm out. I believe in the youth.

Thanks, Danny. Yeah, I think I might be out too. Too much potential. Really? Hardcore in. Thanks. He's a nerd though. Like I'm out as on Kat as just like a person. I don't need you, man. I got Haley money. Let's go. Let's go mass production. You're back and clean up. Here's my take. Trade George Hill. Okay. Okay. You already have Deer and Fox. Right? You've already committed to playing him no matter how many turnovers, how many bad shots. It's clear that they're like, we need to make him a star. Let's give him these Donovan Mitchell minutes, right? Well, not minutes necessarily. Because as I wrote earlier,

they're splitting their bench minutes and their starter minutes. They're the only team in the league to be doing that. But they're starting him. Frank Mason has proved to be good, or at least somebody that you should start and give serious time to and believe in. George Hill had that. There was this article that it was reported, so, you know, from sources, so we're not 100% on it that said George Hill was under the impression that they would be going for a championship, which if if that's something you seriously, if that's something you seriously believe. It was a playoff run. No, they said for a championship, though, right?

They said for a championship run. Where is George Hill get his scouting report? I know. I'm seriously, like, sincerely, George Hill, if you really believe that, like, let's talk. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like I can help you. count. Yeah. But anyway, even if that's not true that he's unhappy about that, or if that, you know, really transpired between him and Perry, I can see in his body language that he's not happy.

Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. So many, only so many turnovers can happen before you discover, you know, that you don't want to be on this team. Or that just also happen in the process. Okay. It's a team of young guys. Yeah. That's just what young guys do. This is the big question facing all these teams that are like investing in youth, whether it's Phoenix, whether it's Philly, you know, how do you go about getting these guys ready to play real NBA minutes? Do you do it by just throwing it out there and seeing if they can swim in the deep end? Or do you bring in guys like J.J. and Amir Johnson or in J.J. and Zsaac and Zsaac and they eat into their minutes, but maybe they show them the ways of the force. That's exactly what you need. You don't need someone like George Hill who's like,

this is my time. You need a mirror Johnson who's like, I can start or I can play five minutes. I'm really not going to. You need Zibo because he's in this point of his career where he's like, yeah, this is what I'm going to do this is what I can do. Yeah, I mean, it is a little weird. I am of the opinion that you don't need to necessarily be so binary about it. You don't need to be 100% young team, 100% old team, like, going for it. I am a little worried that some of those veterans might give them too many wins, and maybe they'll end up being like third worst, third worst, as opposed to first worst.

But at the same time, like Fox is getting minutes, healed is developing. A lot of their young guys are getting reps. And so for me, that's the only thing that really matters with this team. Those guys are playing. They're getting experience and they'll figure out the rest later. So trade George, though. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Especially what you want to do? We're a third of the way through the season. You know what I mean? Yeah. He has the contract clause where you can't trade him until. That would be sort of an ingenious, almost like baseball way of doing things. Right. It's like, oh, I'm just going to bring these guys in.

And when it turns I'm a seller, then I'll find somebody who needs point guard help. And I'll find somebody who wouldn't mind taking a flyer on Vince Carter going down the, the back stretch and then I'll just play the kids and play for the lottery. I like that. I like the take. George Hill is not like the, you know, he's not sitting Wall Street on fire, but I'm in. Thank you. All right, guys, we got to get out of here, but I want to do really quickly guess the narrative

where we just decide, we project into tomorrow what we will be saying about tonight's Lakers Cavs game. Are we, I mean, like, what do you guys think? Is this going to be LeBron meets his new teammates? Is it going to be Lonzo Ball gets totally screwed by, like, LeBron? where, like, I feel like LeBron has taken it on himself to really torch guys like Ben Simmons over the course of the season. Do you think that's going to happen with Lonza?

So what do you think the narrative is going to be tomorrow? I think that the narrative is going to come after the game. Because it's, if LeBron has asked something about Lonzo, which he absolutely will be asked about Lonto, if he says something glowing, which I'm predicting he will because he has before, then, yeah, that's going to be the narrative. Because that also is kind of like a hint to maybe he wants to be with the Lakers. maybe he's, you know, really into Lonzo. Yeah, and he dodged those questions this morning.

So at some point he's going to have to address them after the game isn't ideal, but he's kind of set himself up for this. I'm going to go on my limb here. I think Lonzo's going to have a breakthrough game, triple double, and we're going to say that the Lakers are fun and talented and they don't need LeBron James. That's my take. So piggybacking off that. How much did Magic Johnson just pay you?

Protect Lonzo. Do you sound like a Twitter card that comes out when Lonzo? Lonzo has like 11, 10 and a 10. And they compare him to like the first ever game that, like, Magic John did that. And he's also got seven turnovers in his negative 19. Those are my favorite ESPN stats where it's just like Lonzo's the first Lakers rookie in the first trimester of the first half of the season to average, you know, 10 points, five rebounds, five assists.

On a Tuesday. Yeah, five, two and like seven of his stats. But so the last time Lonzo got a triple double, Stu Lance, an announcer for the Lakers broadcast, could not stop talking about how she got his triple double, his second career triple double on the exact same day or the exact same age that LeBron got his. 20 years and 23 days.

Wow. So if Lanzo if Lanzo gets his triple double against LeBron. Basketball reference is ruining us. It's going to be game over. No, I'm back in on Lanzo. You see him wearing that like Nause album cover with his face on it? I'm all in on this. Okay. My guess

the narrative is that the person we're going to be talking about after this Cavs Lakers game is Brandon Ingram. Tiny dog. I think that all the attention is going to be on Lonzo or it's going to be on LeBron. And in the meantime, if it got a night-to-night basis, Ingris is really starting to bring it, which is really what you want from these guys. It's not the one 28-point explosion and then going away for two weeks.

It's every night, you're the best player on the court, you're the guy, you're the guy's in his aggression in going to the hoop and watching how he's so uniquely gifted at making shots for himself with his size and his ability to just sort of use the entire backboard. He's like, it's almost like, it is, it is, it is Durantish. But like sometimes when I watch him, I'm just like, oh, this is kind of like the way Kyrie just finds these impossible angles. It's just in a Duranty body. This is a great LeBron pitch.

This is a great. Well, I mean, look, the Ingram thing is really interesting because some people are like, you just, Ingram is the untouchable. And some people are like, Ingram is the biggest, is the biggest trade piece you have if you need to include him in something. I remember them talking about, though, that like Ingram was the guy that they wanted to keep. Yeah.

You know what I mean? And maybe not publicly saying, like, he's the guy, but that we want to keep. But they were saying he's the guy. And I remember watching him earlier in the season and he still kind of had that, like, deer with its legs tied together vibe to his game. And I feel like he's just, the aggression has really solved a lot of that. He's just like, I'm just going to the hoop and we'll see what happens. If I go to the line 20 times a game, that's great.

Okay. So that's been it for group chat for Haley, for Justin, for Danny. I'm Chris Ryan. We will have a show next week. I probably will not be on it. So happy holidays if you're listening. Thanks for listening to Group Chat, and we will talk to you. I will talk to you next year.

Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.