The Ringer NBA Show - Group Chat Live All-Star Weekend 2024

Episode Date: February 18, 2024

Justin, Rob, Wos, and J. Kyle Mann were live during All-Star Weekend at HI-FI in Indianapolis sponsored by State Farm! They began by drafting a starting 5 of current white American NBA players. Then they answered mailbag questions from the live audience (49:50). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, Wosny Lambre and J. Kyle Mann Producer: Isaiah Blakely Social: Jomi Adeniran and Kiera Givens Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

March Madness may be over, but the action on One Shining Podcast is just heating up, and we will be delivering two episodes a week Monday and Thursday. And on Mondays, we will have the ringer's very own Jay Kyle Mann to break down basketball and everything beyond with me once a week. And on Thursdays, we will have a jam-packed show full of amazing guests. We've also had some great guests so far, whether it's ESPN's Jay Billis, the icon Bill Walton, or our head honcho Bill Simmons. It's all happening on One Shining Podcasts.

Come join us wherever you listen to podcasts or on the Spotify app now. Group chat live. I am Justin Barrier. This is Bigwas. What up, what up, what up? That's Rob Mahoney. Hey, guys, what's going on? And that's Jay Kyle Mann over there.

Hello. The fourth chair of group chat. I know. We keep calling you that. But as I was explaining to you before, we keep asking you on the pod. But you're never on. No. I'm a very busy man

I got a lot of tape to grind and crush so you don't got to watch there's a lot of EYBL games to catch up on right Justin I'm just whatever so before we came on here Rob and I were both like clinging to each other because we've never done this before

Waz was yelling at his phone watching screaming Man City Chelsea we're about to drop points to the bum-ass Chelsea it's nasty it's fun to see people in their element when they actually care about

a game because you know most people you know like uh just to see wise riled up was a treat i enjoyed that yeah well you're in for a show let me tell you thank you for giving questions uh we're still taking some so if you have any we're going to do a mailback portion at the end of the show so keep sending those in and we have people going around so uh they'll get you there but can anyone tell based on our jerseys what the theme of the show is Hmm There we go It's Pacers

But But also White Pacers Not just white Pacers White Pacers That's right America America motherfucker

White America USA motherfucker We have the world's foremost Anthropologists What do you want to call yourself Of the white American NBA player here

Anthropologist Historian There you go That works It's like When Braun said he was a historian of music, I'm a historian of white American hoopers. That's right.

So I have Dunleavy. You have Mullen. Yeah, Chris Mullen. Brad Miller for me. Mine's a little more of a cut. Hey. That's a deep one. Signed.

Signed. That's right. I was curious if you were standing on a cliff and John Cougar Millen Camp and Damon Bailey, you could save one. Who would you guys say? Right? Oh.

I understand. We have Rex Chapman. I get it. You know, we got our boys. Now we got Reed Shepard. We got our boys. So we are going to do the white American draft. So we have compiled all the white Americans in the NBA right now.

Right now. We're going to go through it and draft teams. Believe it or not, there is enough to field four teams. We didn't think we would get to four. But it's kind of the heyday of the white American in the NBA, wouldn't you say was? We're having to come back. For sure. We.

We are having a comeback. We absolutely are. Before we begin, by the way, though, we have to say thanks to State Farm who's presenting this show and then you do the high-fight indie for having us. Absolutely.

Now let's draft some white guys. And we got to say, too, that this is on the basis that these teams are playing each other. We had to clarify that. Is that what we decided? I actually don't think we decided this. As a GM, I was going through,

well, I need this. There's some problems that just weren't going to be solved by the group of players. Yeah. And also our What problems are those? I think you could imagine. I mean,

when I got to the switchable four threes who can, you know, I'm like, I need somebody that can guard the ball who's over 6'9. I was starting to have issues with that. So I just wanted to be clear about that. This is going to be a great last day to be employed by the ringer. Oh yeah. It was our discussion

of who and who is not white backstage was a podcast that would end our careers. Yes. The degree of difficulty here is very high. point that out here. Starting with... I wanted to call the list of brotherhood, but nobody would let me. Jesus Christ. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. So we were also wondering who is eligible for this because there are some that are clear as day, one might say. But there are other guys who were born in America, but then moved overseas. They have overseas

parents. So starting with... Well, I think maybe they just come up as they come up and we refute them. No, see, you're not doing this shit. Because Rob's trying to... to manufacture the draft. Rob is trying to circumvent the rules. He's been doing this for a few days now. I came up with a list of players and I gave them to these guys. A master list, if you will.

No. No. I wouldn't call it that. Okay. I just did. And apparently I forgot Gordon Hayward. I don't know why. I just... Sickle. Like, think about the... I'm sorry. Think about the, like, just...

that is such a blasphemous. That's a sin. I feel like you to repent for that, especially where we were. I was just over at Butler earlier. Just the joy. Okay. Stop pandering now.

And I love David Letterman so much. But no, I mean, they're still rocking the Hayward jerseys over there. Of course. We got it. We got to have our guy. Luckily, there aren't any churches here, so we don't have to worry. No repenting done. But so for instance, I do think we need to clarify this up top. So, DeMonis, the bonus is the one that comes up.

born in Portland, moved to Spain at 8, went to Gonzaga for college. Wow. Wow. Well, so... I think Waz is the arbitrator. I heard somebody say American, which is even better.

That means you're especially American, yeah. Look, these borderline guys, if you're born on the soil... You're a citizen. You're a citizen. We're going to let them have... So, Sabonis is in. Sabonis is in. Yes.

Oh, that changed... Are Vita Sabonis is anchor baby? I did not account for this. What is in? What does that mean for our guy? Oh, wait, no. So, so bonus is a borderline. Who else do we have on the borderline?

Anybody else want to go through? Well, Hartenstein. I don't think we need to get into that. He's black. Unfortunately for him, he's black. As you can see. So, Watson says no. Hartinstein is out, despite what he looks like.

Okay, so bonus is in them. It's just like there are no, there's like quantum mechanics now. There are just no rules. Like, what do we do it? I don't. Well, Waz makes the rules. It's the Waz draft. One drop rule, baby.

I didn't make that up. I didn't invent that one. Good Lord. It is what it is. Welcome to the last group chat live here in Indianapolis. We had a strong base line before this. Where we're going. So we need to pick an order.

I think we decided because it's Black History Month that was. That's right. Black History Month. Martin Luther King Day, Juneteenth. A few times you showed a black some deference. So, Isaiah, do you want to pick the order outside of that? Everyone give it up for Isaiah. Shout to Isaiah in the back.

Producer Isaiah in the back. Keeping the trains running on time. Rocking the T.J. Leaf today. Autographed. That's a boo. Autographed T.J. Leaf. No love for the Leaf. Wow. No love for the Leaf.

That's crazy. Do we have an order? Kyle. Kyle a shoe. It should be one. I'm the guest. But whatever. We're doing, are we snake in it? I got the four and the five.

Yes, you do. Okay. This is over. Anything else we need to clarify rules here? So we're building a lineup. We're building a squad. Yep. Five guys each.

Yep. Positionally as vague as you want to be. And as vague as a group of a bunch of shooters will allow you to be, I think. So, Bons, I believe you have the floor. Yeah. With the first pick in the white American draft. I'm looking. White America.

A lot of Iraq looks just like this. White America. Let's go. Okay. That was booming. All right. All right. Was not ready for that.

So I'm looking at my big board. This is the big was big board. Shouts to Mel Kiper. The first pick is obvious to me. I think it's obvious to everyone. It's Chet Holmgren, of course. That's a good thing. What can I say more?

about Chet, full core fits alum, so we're basically brothers. Defensive monster, shooter, handles it, I mean, passes it, screens it. What do you want from this guy? He does everything

and he's so clearly part of the future of the league, man, I think this guy's going to be making all-star teams. He's going to be making deep playoff runs. It's just obvious to me that Chet Holmgren is the number one pick. Well, and you're dodging the big stiff territory. We're going to into real quick.

Yeah, he's not as this. I worry about the rest of our center crop, but we'll see what we get. It's true. So we have a rookie expert on stage here. So Kyle does our rookie rankings at the ringer.com. Please check those out.

Please do. Anything you want to add about Chet? Because the rookie of the year race is kind of heating up here. And it's funny because we had this discussion the last time you were on the pod years ago because you don't come on the pod. But we were talking about.

Did you bring me here to corner? me. Yeah. It's just an intervention. I'll come to India. It'll be really fun. It's actually, yeah, it's just a, it's an indictment. Us and hundreds of our closest friends here to tell you hard truths.

But we were talking specifically about winning, impacting how you voted on it. And Rob scoffed at the notion. This is kind of becoming the whole thing. If you reward winning with Chet, the Thunder, one of the best teams, the league versus Wemby, who's crushing it on a very bad team. So where are you generally on the race right now? I think Wimby's pulled back in front. And I kind of said that in our last,

update. I mean, I think once the spurs made all their kind of, you could have that, it's another discussion. But Chet, Chet joined a team that was sort of middling in a lot of different metrics. And if you look at the exact same lineup from last year, they just switched him in for Arkansas, Jalen Williams, just swapped them out. And they immediately rocketed up and became a top five, both sides of the ball. I haven't checked it today. But I mean, they just, it was what they were needing. And I was just saying there was, there was an obvious Chet's shaped hole. And he allows them to play five out. And then, you know, when you add like a Gordon Hayward, To what we, and I was speaking to avoid that.

Shasta Gordier. We were having this discussion. I was like across the league. I don't really know how many teams are going to be able to play five shooter handler pastors at the same time who also can play defense. I mean, like the Celtics could do that. Some versions of the Nuggets could do that. If you slide MPJ to the four, you know, things like that, I'm just saying,

I can't think of another team that are in the position that they're in. And I think Chet is uniquely qualified to make that happen. Second pick? Should we go straight to you? This is tough because I'm like, okay, we're talking on ball juice. You got an Excel spreadsheet? Leave me alone. I need organization.

My mind is chaotic. So I need something to help me stay a little bit grounded here. We were talking on ball juice backstage. And if you look at the just crowd of on ball juice guys here, I'm like, the separation isn't crazy between our like, our like, you know, handlers, second side guys. defense kind of is where my mind goes. I start thinking, okay, because it's hard to come by in this group, so you can kind of follow where I'm going.

Or do I want to go with another, you know, rim protector because the rim protector is sort of like, it's the gold rush in this draft. So do I want to pick a wing stop or do I want to pick a rim protector? That's the thought process I'm going here. I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with Alex Caruso. Interesting. I feel like this was...

Was, were you not the number one? I think that... This could have been your number one pick if you were a little later. He was definitely in the mix, for sure. He's definitely in my tier one white American hoopers, for sure. If the pick got back to me,

he would have definitely been my next pick. And for obvious reasons, like, he's a monster. So I'm kind of stunned by this pick. Really? Because we just put Subonis into the mix. Well, I forgot about that to be honest with you. it's already into the league. You can't put it.

I'm ruined. It sinks. Well, yeah, he wasn't on the spreadsheet, damn it. It's all about the spreadsheet. No, I mean, Caruso is like the best, I think he's the best defender in this group. He's, he's an assignment guy. He's disruptive. He's smart.

In a scheme, he's incredible. And in terms of you're looking at like, like I'm saying, like the group of creators that we have in this group, I feel good about the value I'm going to be able to get elsewhere. I feel like Caruso is the guy that's, I'm not. going to be able to go get a Caruso later. That's what I'm saying. Really? These guys are all hustle.

Justin, do you think that there is a defender on his level left in there? We don't. We don't play defense. He was a tough as shit point guard in college too. So that's a guy with a high threshold. You'll watch Alex Caruso in college. This guy could hoop. When he came around it annoyed me, everybody was like, who is this scrappy young guy?

Oh my God. Has been good. You would watch college. College hipster bullshit. Well, these are my college people. I'm just appealing to him here. So I'm just saying, no, I love Caruso. I think he's, why do you think everybody was wanting the Bulls to trade him?

Because he's the thing that could put a championship team over the top. Yeah. And I'm going to lock down whoever you pick. I'm just saying. Does he play enough Caruso to go this high? You're talking injuries? Injuries are on. This is an NBA 2-Kown.

Oh, I thought we were doing like a Marvel Secret Wars thing where we were like, this is a simulation. No one's getting hurt. Justin, we were going to draft like 10 guys who play 12 minutes a game. Yeah. Like, that's the reality of what this exercise. is. So I'm up, right?

Yes. I'm clearly going Subonis. You just completely fuck yourself, Kyle. Thank you. I'm devastated. This is why I didn't want to tell you about Sabonis.

Devastated. I will never forgive you for this. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm still mad about this. But Sabonis, 50 double doubles this year out of 54 games. Yeah.

Just right off the top of my dome. I didn't even look that up. No. I mean, I've been one of the biggest Sabonis skeptics, not realizing he was white American, so that was a fuck up on my. What won you over?

Was it the playoff series, or this last year? When did you shift? When he's not, he was a white American, I think. This year, the playoffs last year, he kind of got bullied by the Warriors. Oh, yes, he did. Like, they out physicaled him, which is like his main thing is his physicality. And he couldn't have that as an advantage. I just think he's been pretty close to their best player this year, pretty consistent

on defense for once. So, you know, I'll give it up to him now. Best rebounder. But he's not my first thing. Do I even need to make the case for a bonus? Because I think very clearly, he could have gone one in my... He's the best respect. Player right now of all these guys.

For sure. Legitimate all-star. And now he's playing biz, yeah. I feel great about my draft so far. And as you could see, Elizabeth is putting them up on this big board just to give track. Shout to Elizabeth. Give it up posterity. Thank you to Elizabeth.

She put this whole thing together, y'all, by the way. By herself. The best. Best in the biz. Best in the biz. But there's been a run on Bigs. And by that, I mean, two players. this is why I'm swerving.

I'm seeing the lack of juice, as Kyle put it. I'm looking at who can dribble more than two times. How's Caruso could dribble? In this entire list of remaining players. And so I'm going to try to corner the market here. I have back-to-back picks. I'm taking Austin Reeves and Tyler Hero. Wow.

That hurts. And I'm going to say, have fun with Peyton Pritchard, y'all. Wow. Enjoy yourselves. That hurts. I'm going to take a couple of ball hands. There's a couple of creators, a couple of scores. I feel really great about my situation right now.

See, I thought you were going to go big in order to make sure you had one. But I'm not. Very clear. You're going to draft another big to put with Subonis or, you know. He's not playing defense? What do I have to worry about? I'm feeling okay about it, you know? If we get into Kevin Love territory, we get into Kevin Love territory.

Well, Caruso's crossing one of your guys off. So, Chessboard, you knock that off. So you have won when you play me. It's all right. It's Tyler Hero time. How are you feeling about Tyler Hero? Not good. Not good.

Yeah, what do you think about his season this year? Because people are talking about him like he's been a complete scrub. It's just like, you know, he fans are like, oh, he's good enough to get Dame Lillard in here. And I think clearly that hasn't been the case this year. Not so much. The Devin Booker comps coming out of Miami looking tough. They're falling apart. They're falling apart.

It's looking tough. I mean, he's got that like, I don't. losing player is strong, but a little empty calorie, a little bad process when he's the guy driving so much of what you do. So that's why I'm having to have an Austin Reeves to counterbalance. You know, we got good vibes, bad vibes running the offensive team Rob. I feel like you took Reeves just to hurt me. Probably. And because you look like him.

There is a player on this list that looks a lot like Justin and might have to take him out of spite. No, you better not. All right. Reeves doing well this year. Have you seen that? He's back. Was he gone? He was gone for a while.

Yeah, at the start of the season. Yeah, he had a little snub. I don't think that was really his fault. Yeah. Your coach is Darvindham. Okay. You're playing with Tori and Prince a lot. Like, what do you want?

All right. Yeah. Well, I'm up. I'm stalling a little bit because I'm at a crossroads here. So I could basically take the only other big left on the board who's worth drafting, pretty much. Or I can go guard. I'm going to go Walker Kessler in order to

beef up the front court. So you got some bonus and Kessler? Oh yeah, we're not shooting three. That's not going to work. You're running a full like 195 lineup. We're going to dominate the boards, baby. Packing the paint against the white American team somehow. Dominate the Brownsie board.

We're in Indiana. We're playing in the backyard. No three point line. We'll get Matt Painter to coach this team and it'll be great. Just Mike and drills all day for Team Justin. we'll hire a videographer and shoot everything in black and white. Yeah. It'll just go.

It'll be a concept team, you know. But I will say, Kessler, having an underrated sophomore season, they were playing them off the bench for a while, but the rim protection numbers are elite. Always good, yeah. Like, other than KP and Gobert, pretty much best room protector by the bullshit numbers on it. Kyle, how are you feeling about Kessler? I mean, it's been kind of messy.

Inconsistent role. Offense is like his range is as far as he can reach effectively. if he hands, but like defensively, he's, he's pretty special. Yeah, I mean, he's, he's sort of a park at the rim big. I mean, like, he moves pretty well. And what's interesting for him is that, like, he always had that offensive ambition.

It's just we were always, you know, he transferred from North Carolina to Auburn because he wanted to shoot threes. You see him shoot a couple threes. You're like, you just kind of silently pat him on the head. I'm sure Bruce Pearl was like, all right, buddy. Yeah, that's going to happen. I don't know that that's ever going to come around. but I mean, yeah, he's a solid, you know, I guess the question just becomes like offensively,

what are you got to put around him? You know, I'd assume a lot of movement, a lot of skill, which, you know, they've, it's a bonus. The spacing issues, I feel like you're going to get interesting for you, Justin. Like, you're going to have to lean pretty hard. In a draft of shooters, you've somehow picked two non-shooters. Yes. I salute you. Points a bonus, baby.

Who's next here? Is it Kyle? It should be Kyle of next. Yeah. Okay. well, I got the best defender on the board other than shit. I'm pretty mad about that. That was I wanted that one.

Let's see. I probably need size. I probably need another handler. Very quiet here. Were you guys sad to see some bonus go? I mean, was how hurtful. I mean,

Halliburton was, okay. He was caught in the way. Sad to see some bonus go. Come on, man. Come on. It's all the matter of what you got.

Because the. The kings love him. I'm just saying, well, you all have the Miles issue, so I'm sure. Halliburton is so much better than this dude, man. He's so, like, Halliburton is an all-star starter. He's not a wild card.

I'm not comparing them one to one. I'm just saying did they like him, is all I was asking. Yeah. He liked him. It was just kind of dissonant, right? I mean, the Miles thing felt like it was never going to work as long as the bonus was here.

He's so much more comfortable. You never took some old shoes to, to Salvation Army or Goodwill, that was Sabonis. Right, get out of here. You don't choose? Yeah. When you think about the upgrade of like,

everything has changed not at Tyrese's here. Like, you got to compare it to what they got him out for. It's like, of course, I'm done with this. I don't want to wear this anymore. I wrote 6,000 words about this shit. There you go. Big, big tisbury into the crowd. Of course.

All right. It's what we do. Yeah, Rob's article was one of those. You ever, like, touched the screen in the little,

like, bar that tells you, that tells you how long it is. I, like, barely touch that. I was like, oh, we're a fucking ride.

Wow. We'll TLDR that thing. Don't worry about it. No, no, I read every bit of it. He's so talented. Okay.

All right. How long have you been on the clock now? Listen, there's no rip protection on the clock. I'm making choices here. All right. I'm walking here. All right.

I can either go with great movement shooting or I can get a handler. You've lost vamping time. You got a pick. Like, bro, make a pick. All right. For the love of God. You got to pick.

I'm going to go with the best most creative passer on the board. This will be shocking to see you. Brandon Pajemski is who I'm going to put in. Oh, pods off the board. I was going to pick him. Pods.

If it wasn't Kassel. All right. What you're getting with what you're getting with Pots. I'm sure, yeah. Well, yeah. With Pods, you get some reload shooting. I think I really, he's,

he's a really really creative pastor. He fits their system great. He's honestly, I worry about him to get targeted defensively. That's always been my worry about him. But he's good. I love potts. Pretty much in crunch time,

a lot of times is he's the second best score after Steph Curry, which is freaking crazy to say. We are seven players in. And scouting report wise, we haven't said sneaky athletic one time. That's true. That's a great point.

We haven't really talked about three at all. Well, Luckily, just wait. No one has slapped the floor. We needed to have Jomey hit a gong. Like, we should have had a gong up here. Just, wow, every time we said. A lot of prop opportunity for us going forward, I think.

So my first pick up was just so obvious. Center need, versatile, all of that stuff. Like, just turnkey kind of guy. All the scouting jargon. But, however, this one is for me, and this is Kevin Herder. Hurder Hive. Wow. Yeah.

That's early. And I love Heter for the simple reason that he passes dribbles and shoots, right? And he's got a little bit of size. Yes, he's not the most fleet of foot guy in the world. We get it. But you talk about movement shooting. You talk about every now and again,

he can punish a really, a guy who's way smaller than him. Very high IQ, ring the bell. I've just always been a Hurt of guy, plus he's an upstate New York guy. Like, come on. Kevin Hurtt. Who did you say he looked like in the back? I've been calling Kevin Hutter,

the butcher's boys since 2018 than the draft. From Game of Thrones. It's ridiculous. Google it on your phone. You're welcome to. The ginger hate on this panel is just crazy. So, hurt her pretty early. I got to be honest. Not for me. Not when I look at the rest of this list.

Well, you have a second pick in a row though, so you've got to go again. So I go again. Yeah, you got one more pick. Snake draft. There's more gingers if you want more gingers. Oh, I'm going to go with Gordon Hayward. Gordon Hayward. Gordon Hayward. Gordy Hayward. Butler's own.

So Hayward is somebody in his first in Utah, the team with him, George Hill, Rodney Hood. I just developed a sick fascination with that team. Those are the hallmarks of that team for you? George Hill and Rodney Hood? And Gordon Hayford. Yeah. I respect you.

Those were the hallmarks of the team. And I just always love what he brought to the table, right? Again, size, playmaking, which is under. rated on him. He's not as good as shooters you would expect, given who he is. Are we talking recently or? Underrated defender, too, when he's right. He's an underrated defender.

I just always been a big Gordon Hayward guy. I would argue group chat is as pro a Gordon Hayward podcast as you will find. Yeah, you got the shot quality with Charlotte. You always got to take it. I mean, all things in context is what I would say with Hayward. Yes. Also, hasn't played since Christmas. Don't even worry about it.

Don't worry about that. Who's worried about that? It'll be fine. Also, just the idea that they send Gordon Aweger, everybody knows it, you know. That they send Gordon Hayward to the prairie is just, my chef's kiss. I used to call Russell Westbrook the king of the prairie because it was like, oh, Russ stayed. Oh, we love Russ, because he stayed, because he's, even though he demanded the trade. But Russ stayed, he stayed.

Now Gordon Hayward gets to be the new king of the prairie. Yeah, we talked about this on the pavia. the day. You weren't there. You had, what was it? Scheduled off? Scheduled. A scheduled absent. What was, what was that scheduling relative to your birthday? What was the schedule? Well, like, what was the coincidence of that? There was no coincidence. That's why it was scheduled. How close was it to Wazda? It was the next day. I scheduled the absence because it was my birthday. Guys can't take their birthday off anymore. What else going on? We're out here, grinding Gordon. Hayward take. Is this not America?

Two days after the trade deadline. I wanted to ask you, though, what did you think about the trade and the fit overall? Because we talked about that's true. I mean, it's just obvious, right? This is a need that they have the secondary ball handling, right? And if he's healthy, he's going to provide all it. And playmaking, too, because as much as people like Kaysen Wallace and some of these other guys or even J-dub, they don't pass. Right?

And Hayward is a good connector. He'll make an open shot. Like, it's obvious they need him. He just has to play. Have you guys seen the Hornets lately? Have you guys seen the Hornets lately? Three straight? Wait, that was more yeses than I expected.

These are our people. That's a great point. That don't count. They've got the element of surprise going for them right now too, but they're weird. I mean, you and I were texting them during that game where it's like, this is working? I don't like, I'm sure as soon as the book is out on them, it'll change. But yeah, it was fun. I like to watch the surprise new lineup thing hit a new team.

It's just fun. They're still burying Meechich, though, unfortunately. Unacceptable. Or shit. Did you bring the Mietchich broom out here? I did not. No, I wouldn't fit my carry-on. Why is it a broom?

I didn't have a pole. Okay. Yeah. It's still in my office if you want it. I do. A Mietch broom? What are you talking about? Don't even worry.

Listen to the pod. This is one of various bits. Don't do any call back to the pod. We don't even understand the bit. That's what I'm trying to clarify. It was a very clear bit. It was a, a. Festivis celebration.

Yes. I did not have a poll. Maybe I missed that one. What does Mechich have to do with Festivis? He's the spirit of Festivus. Okay. I accept it. Yeah.

Copy. Very fluid joke. Fuck off. This is why you're not on the podcast, Kyle. I think you're up. Who's up? Do you do it under 10 minutes this time. All right.

Shut up. It's getting more and more adversarial as we go. That's true. I mean, I need a. big guy, but I'm just kind of like looking at the, again, looking at this, I'll just get one later, honestly. Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it now. I probably need more defense, but, you know, a guy that I really, really like, and I think

that his offensive impact, I think it's underrated, just his presence. I tried to make up a word as I'm apt to do and have been criticized and told to shut up frequent times anti-usage, guys that can affect the game just as much when they have it as if they don't have it. And I think like movement shooters who are like this, and you all know who I'm going to pick just by the way I'm describing this. I'm going to take Duncan Robinson. Duncan Robinson, no matter else who I pick, he's going to make their lives better. I think he's underrated. Like, I think he's a better athlete than he gets credit for. He moves better. Ring the gong! He can shoot. He can shoot at volume. He's shooting 41 percent. He can shoot it off screens.

he can shoot off pin downs and shoot it in transition. He doesn't, he can, his weird load-ups, he could catch it high. As of last spring, he's learned how to dribble. He's been dribbling now. He's clutch. He's made big shot. He's buried shots in the garden in game seven. You know, like, come on.

I mean, he's like, he's a guy. I like Duncan Robinson. That's my pick. He is a guy. It's good pick. He has size. You don't have a lot of size on your team right now. Yeah, there we go.

He's going to be playing center at this point. Im and Drew Banks are going to figure it out. All my guys begin with an H. Oh, something about the letter H. Triple H. What the fuck are you talking about? Sam Hauer still on the board. There's something about the letter H.

Presented by Sesame Street. I guess it is kind of like the family that names their kids all with the first letter. Oh, yeah. It's a very white American thing. I was about to say. I can't talk shit. I have a family in our family that does that.

Oh, no. We didn't mention. You're from the Heartland. They're great. So I'm torn between a shooter or someone that could actually dribble. And so I could go with, for instance,

Grayson Allen, who's leading the league in 3. percentage at 48.2%. He also has a laptop. Off the top of my head. I'm definitely not looking at my notes here. But I think I have to go Dante Debencenzo just to get another ball hand. Big Raggoon. I wanted

that one. So since he started, 16 points, 3.6 rebounds, 2.9 assists. Basically, the list of guys who could dribble at this point is I think it's just him and maybe one or two guys down the road here. And I actually have a question about Devin Chinslow I've been considering here. So white guy with a shape up.

How do we feel about this? First of all, he's a Guido. So obviously he gets a pass for being, it's New York City. Like, my man, Pauly might be in here. My man, Pauli, Palli, Peralta, he's in New York City, Guinea. He gets a shape up. So regular. That's just this regular.

And his name is Dante. Come on now. Come on now. That guys listen to a lot of rap in his life. He's got cuts in his eyebrows before. He's done the whole thing. He's dated a black chick named Lucretia before. He's done it all.

One of us. Same question. Sorry, I don't think the mic... I was just about the same day. Sorry, yeah, I don't know. That's so weird. But I'm feeling good about my team. right now. You got the bonus Kessler

DeVincenzo? I mean, Devencenzo not anti-usage. This guy will take lots of shots. A little daring in a way that I think for a white American draft, you want someone who's going to go out there a little bit. Too many guys playing in their roles on these teams. Were you considering him for this next

two-sum? I would, were I not already so guard-heavy? So I need a little more size and more wing help than you guys do. So I'm going first I'm going with the man who I think on this planet looks most like Justin Barrier. Max Struce. Oh.

Hold on. Do you guys agree with this comment? Wow. Wow. Is that a good thing? It's a compliment. Yeah, you're a handsome cat. It's definitely a compliment. I was just bringing off. I was like Max Streis looked like Sebastian Stan.

Oh, yeah, a little bit. See? Also, there's like two women in the crowd right now, so I don't know if you trust you guys. It's 2024, dog, we can all say it. You look like Max Drews, who also looks like you're like a Pokemon evolution chart. Yeah.

You to Max Drus to Sebastian Stan. I should make a comp cloud. On the bulbosaur of evolution? Yeah. Wow. That's tough. I've always thought of you that way. And the women are leaving.

But I need it size. I need a movement shooter like many of you guys already have. Max Drews, a guy who is like a little burly enough to play some four for me too, which I think is important. His percentages are down a little bit this year, right? A little down. Oh, I have a stat for that. Do you? Because I called this going into the season. That's true. It wasn't actually a good, thank you for. Justin hates every heat player. Hold on.

I think I just like being right. You basically turn it to a pumpkin. So 33.6% on 7.13s per game. Not great. It is the, he's the worst volume three point shooter in the league, so over seven threes. Yes. But tell me how Cleveland season is going. Tell me how their offense is feeling with him in the lineup. Like, he's a reputation. All they got to do is think that he's going to hit him and get the closeouts. I mean, there is

that part of it. I mean, he needs to make him, but that's he's guarded like a shooter. And that's why I want him on my team. Especially like, look, we're letting Tyler Hero cook. We need, we need some space for all kinds of things to be developing there. With the other pick, I think this is where it gets a little trickier. I am going to go big here.

I'm a little worried about how small my team is. So I'm going with like the biggest, the biggest dude left who stretches his arms up a lot thinking he can block your view of the basket. Really? I'm reaching for Luke Cornett. Wow.

I'm reaching for Luke Cornett. There's more to this. Why are you, were you jumping to him over these other guys? I'm curious. Is there any other kind of? You want Drew Eubanks, the most punchable white American player in the NBA?

You know? I'll think about it. My team is aggressively small. And so I want a little bit more actual size. Cornette, frankly, is the only guy who's getting that done. Okay. Okay. That's the question we'll pick, but you know, you've got to live with the choice. I accept it. Am I next?

Oh, I got to go Grayson Allen. I already gave the case for him. I would have maybe chosen him last pick around there. We got actual booze for Grayson Allen. And you know what? It's just like yelling Freebird at an NBA podcast. You got to boo Grace Allen. It's just kind of, you know. Most likely to slap the floor of any player

who's been chosen yet. Most likely to commit a heart foul and not be available for this hypothetical game that we're playing amongst our TV. Yes, it's true. But basically doing a Bradley Beal impression for Bradley Bill. I would not say that, no. Really?

Grayson Allen's been doing a Bradley Beale. He's doing enough. He's definitely shooting better than Bradley Bill. He stands around and shoots. He's a homeless man's Bradley Bill. Thank you, Woss. This is a very generous portrayal of Grayson Allen's season. Who's playing the best basketball he's ever played.

But yeah, I don't know if he's playing like Bradley Beale personally. I need some shooting. So I think this rounds out the team nice. Yes, you do. Yeah, I definitely need some shooting. How is your team so bad at shooting? We're playing through the paint.

All right. Try to get to the room on us. It's not going to happen. On DeMontas Sabonis? Oh. Not too worried. He's large. Didn't Caitlin have that thing about

DeMontas subonis, like in the tracking, moved more than like any big in the NBA, like that teams would just move him. You all know what I'm talking about? It's mostly. Shout out Caitlin Cooper. Shout out to Kaylin Cooper. She's the best.

But yeah. It's bonus his playing point. That's for a reason. I think it's Kyle. Back to Kyle. Is it really? Okay. Neat star power.

That's not happening. So this is where we're getting down to the nitty gritty folks. Yeah. There's still some. I have handlers. I need a little more. I love DJ. The MBTJ relationship was one of my favorite, like, online things.

M.B. was like, I make him cry. I kick his ass and he gets mad. I missed those two together. They were great. They really were great. So, yeah, I think I'm going to go ahead and just try to take a big gear. I'm sorry I took Luke Cornett from you. Yeah, I was frustrated. Well, you know, honestly, I don't trust Zach Collins. Because not just because he looks like a karate kid villain, but. He kicked my ass so easily.

We stood next to him in the hotel. He is huge. I'm actually going to take Mason Plumley. Because because he could get he's had playoff minutes. He's a, I'm going to tell you something about Mason Plumley. He's a sneaky sauce ring the gong. Sneaky saucy passer.

He's a little better passer. Sometimes offensively challenged, but we need size. We have shooting. I kind of like the way he would fit with my. guys. Yeah. So I'll take Mason for them. And then I get to do another one. No, no, we're back to Walsh.

You do not. You got one more coming up. One more coming up, yeah, but Wise has two in a row. So I get two in a row. Okay. So how do you want to close out your team? You got Chet, you got Kevin Herder, you got Gordon Hayward. I'm doing Luke Conard. That's a good.

And T.J. McConnell. Let's go, man. Let's go. Let's go, baby. Come on, man. Come on, man. Three drinks for one, man. He know I had to go. By the way, so at the NBA in-season tournament, we happen to be sitting next to two older gentleman Pacers fans. And, you know, just struck up conversation and whatever, just talking.

And TJ had a moment in that game against the bucks where he was like stealing shit. He had like a sequence of like four or five plays. And these dudes were fucking losing it, bro. It was a cliche. It was literally out of a sitcom how crazy they were going anytime T.J. McConnell tied his shoes properly.

So, I get it. I felt the energy. So, yeah, I'm mechanized in this team. And I'm like, I'm liking my lineup, man. I'm mechanizing. There you go. When I was here in the preseason, the Pacers was bringing like a charity thing where they were pumping gas for people.

People would pull up in lanes with other Pacers who I will not name out of respect for their reputations and the people would drive by like, hey, so it's CJ here or what? He's the guy. Poor Halliburton. Just a great stuff.

Just a great marriage of fan base and player for sure. It's like when Carmelo came home to New York. A lot of dads out there. You could be him, son. You could be TJ. Look at him. But he plays hard.

You can do it. You can do it. But Kyle, you laugh. But that's why I'm really big on the white American hooper thing because I think a lot of white people don't want to hoop no more because they don't think they can be good at it. So you want to invigorate the heart guys.

Just got to have right expectations. I play all the time. This is my thing. If you're a white American and you look at Luca fucking Donchitz, you got to say to yourself, I could do that shit. What? You look at Yolkich and you really like, it's impossible for anybody to ever do that again? Have you once looked at Luca Donchich and said like, I could throw that pass?

could do that. possibly? Like a minivan, dude. Yeah. He's huge. I'm just saying all of the things that people think would limit a white player, Luca does not possess. And so you can do it too, guys.

That's all I'm saying. You can do it too. So you could be Mo Wagner. I can be Mo Wagner. Also huge. But Mo Wagner's not eligible in this draft, right? No. He's decided the German.

He played for the German national. You don't think he has American citizenship? I don't think so. He's probably got a work. He's got a work visa. A work visa. Yeah, I don't think so. He's got to leave after six months.

Before we move on, you have your full team here. Full squad. Yeah. It's a good team. Whole squad. Home green her. Heyward.

Honestly, they're chatting. I'm shooting it. I'm guarding you. Well, no, I'm kind of guarding you. Chet is cleaning up all the mistakes. Sure. I don't need a four man. Because, let's face it.

It's just I love my team. But you don't have Christian Brown on your team, who I assumed you would take very much. He was like the origin of this idea. This podcast. Yes. I look, very early on in his rookie season, I identified him as somebody that could help the team

in big moments because of what he brings on defense and the hustle and, you know, things like that. But he pointed at the crowd. I'm just saying. But the problem with Christian this year, he's just made no progress on his offense. Like he dribbles like his hands or pans. You know what I mean?

Like he's got oven mitts on. It's bad. And the jump shot is obviously a work in progress. So yeah, yeah, sorry. Cutting room for my guy. Not his best season. Nuggets is still going to win the championship. Not his best beard season either.

It's been a tough year. He's got a, yeah, tough beard. Great mom, though. I knew it. I knew he was going to say. that because if he wasn't going to, I was going to say. Yeah, look it up. Google it.

Yeah, we are definitely losing our jobs. Christian Brown draft night. Look it up. I love you, Waz. Thank me later. Just do it. Thank me later. All right. Kyle, since you're turned on now, why don't you go? We did this shit so much for Steph Curry's mom.

Come on. We can do it for Christian Brown. I'm just sidestepping all this stuff. Oh, my God. I just the, uh, wazzy, you're the best. Okay. I actually was considering Brown because I was just going to try to you know, piss people off. Yeah. The mom part wasn't part of it. No. Yeah.

Shouts to all the moms. So it's our core demo. Yeah. Key thing we have in common. Yeah. How are you never ready? It's crazy. It's really crazy.

Keep talking, buddy. Next time you're out. It's such a long... We're going to do that every time you try to... It's a really... thrustful drop. So I could go with another big shooter. I could. I'm not going to, though.

You know what? Screw it. I will. What's it matter? I'm not going to win anyway. I'm going to take... No, I'm not going to do it. Kyle, you can't be fucking serious, bro. I'll take Peyton, Richard. Okay. Solid. Is it? I don't know.

The options are really thin. at this point. Yeah, I mean, like, speaking of shape-ups, as being Pritchard, big shape-up guy. I think we could say that your team definitely is the worst. Wow. Well, the stuff, I, the sub bonus thing really was not,

you all changed the pool, what we got on stage. We got to do that. I didn't know we were going to do that. All four of us and everybody in this room together. I didn't. I didn't plan for that. You guys, if, you know, if you go off of my plan, I have a hard time adjusting. So, you know, that was, uh, threw me for a loop.

Okay. So I'm up. So I have to say I like how the board shook out for me. Because right now, if I'm playing to bonus at point guard, which I'm going to, because I have to, I have to have more shooting on the floor. So I'm going to go Sam Merrill. Fuck yeah. One of the best three-point shooters in the NBA right now. Yeah.

I can't do literally anything other than that. But we're going to all offense, baby. And Kessler is just going to stand on defense and not come back, actually. It's playing one way. You're going to veck this thing. Yeah, totally. I respect that. So that's my team.

Your bigs are going to pick up a lot of fouls and they're going to file. Yeah, that's going to be an issue for you. We only have five guys, you know. Just saying, we're going to be at the line a lot. Yeah. Okay. Sam Merrill could stroke it, though. He's good.

He's seen like 56% and like dribble handoffs from three or something. Absolutely ridiculous. Like it's absurdity. Yeah. I'm feeling good. Rob, you want to close this out? Yeah,

I'm going to take once and current pacer Doug McDermott to wrap down. Dougie McBuckets. The pandering continues. I mean, tell me my, look at my team and tell me

are there any great people in here? I know they're in town. Maybe not. A lot of shooting on the team. Yeah, a lot of shooting. Anchored by the, what's the name of that contest

that Luke Corny? This is a word for. I think it's just called The Cornet contest. I think it's just the cornet. No, it's a cornet contest. Is it the cornet contest? He's got his own.

I hope it works. So before we get your reaction to these picks, any other guys in contention for you? Pat Conninton was definitely. Not sneaky athletic, actually athletic. Pat Connettton. Dean Wade was somebody I consider. We were discussing if Mac McClung was eligible for this draft.

Not technically an NBA player, Mac McLung. No Hauser. Sam Houser can shoot it. I mean, you know. And they're right. If you're a talent, you're just going to sprinkle some Samhouser. We're just naming some guys.

Yeah. That's it. Dudes will do anything to sit around. We were scraping the bottom of a barrel about a time. Kevin Love didn't. Nobody was going to spring for a little Kevin Love. No Kevin. Wisdom.

It's not logging the minutes these days. All right. So you guys can see the teams up here just to read them off, maybe for the pot people. Dylan Winler? What's that? Dylan Winler? Dylan Winler?

Anybody? Lakers great. So my team is Sabonis, Kessler, Divencenzo, Alan Merrill. Rob's is Reeves, Hero, Strauss. Strauss. Struse. Struce.

Justice. Strauss. Close enough. Cornet and McDermott. Excuse me. I don't say anything. Okay. I love my team.

Was his home grin, Herder, Hayward, Luke Carnard, T. T.J. McConnell. Kyle. That's right. That's right. This is going. This is like when you use your second round pick to draft the guy to make the agent happy.

That's essentially what you're doing. Kyle is Caruso, Brandon Projemsky, Duncan Robinson, Miles Plumley, Peyton Pritchardt. My team is so weird. So by a show of round of applause, if you thought Kyle won the draft, let's hear it. That guy. Is that my dad? One guy. Loyal dime drop.

viewer in the middle of crowd. To vote for Rob's team. What's here? Come on, a little bit. We got it. So for my team. That guy. Love that guy. Enthusiasmatic. And now for Waz's team. That's right. That's right.

I did it for you all. Waz got a generational talent. When we were back here, I was I was backstage arguing against Black History Month so I could get him. I was just like it wasn't going to happen. Our next podcast will be on Juneteenth, don't worry.

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Thank you guys for putting questions here. And thank you to the people who mailed them in to our email. Someone had Cody J. Yeah, you're the one that liked my team. You're our favorite fan. He gave a lot of suggestions around the area, so we appreciate that. First question. If you were the Pacers GM,

what moves are you making to win a championship? And luckily, Rob, you've been around the Pacers a bunch. Yeah. So you first. This is where it gets tricky because like we've done as I say we as Pacer's GM now. In a Brad Miller jersey. I'm allowed. We've done we've done the big thing.

Like we've already traded for Pascal Seacca and we've solved our biggest ostensible weakness. Now it's like shoring up around the edges and this is where it gets really weird. It's like anything you want to do that substantive involves making a hard decision on Ben Matherin or making a hard decision on Jarrett Walker, things that at this stage I don't want to do. And so I think the answer to this question, honestly, is wait. Like, you have to wait and see if these young guys can play. You want to see if Ben Shepard can be anything.

I really like where the Pacers are now. And honestly, like, let's get healthy and see what we can actually do before we start making rash decisions around here. That's a great answer. What about Paul George? If Paul George wants to come home, we were actually just talking Paul George. It's not coming back to the heartland, guys. I promise you, if I know,

one thing about Paul George is that he's not coming back to Indiana. Would you guys welcome him back with open arms? How do you feel about that? Indiana's favorite son. Oh, a big. A couple of booze. A couple of boos. Yeah.

Couple boos. Yeah, he's not leaving Southern California. The guy was crying about it for like the last four years in Indiana about how he wanted to go to Southern California. He might go to Phil. He's now there and he's going to come back. But now he goes on his podcast and says nice things about Indiana sometimes.

No, guys. It's not good. I hate to be the bear of bad news. But how do you guys feel about the Pacers? Like where is the next step for them, do you think? I mean, maybe up from the 24thish strength defense in the league, I would think. So to me, I think I love the Pascal deal, of course.

Obviously, he just is an obvious fit. He's an all-star type of play. player. I mean, I don't see why they shouldn't try to get into a sort of distressed asset sort of sweepstakes, right? See if you could put the money together for Zach Levine. I love doing crazy shit like that. Because again, Zach Levine has become a bit of a cancer on the Bulls, but the Bulls don't really have a culture. I think Halliburton is such a gravitational force and a culture setter and a leader, like you can absorb that kind of personality

and just make a talent play. But I'm, see, but I would be fired in two days as a GM. You feel me? Like, I'm getting rid of all of my young guys. I don't think they can absorb Zach Levine. I don't even know. What kind of culture would you have to have to, like, absorb as Zach Levine?

It'd have to be like, like, it'd have to be somebody like, you could fuck up and you're not going to, we're not going to move. Like, it's like, like, warriors run. I think that's the kind of, There's a certain level you get to where what you do is so rock solid. Like when the Warriors brought boogie cousins into everything.

But that's what you need is like, I think Levine is going to need a player of Steph or LeBron's reputation to do the things that he's supposed to be doing, which is not taking so many like really, really hard shots. And trying to guard people. It's the accountability thing. It's like with the Spurs, they could, like their accountability was like those guys came in. They were like, oh, like I can't do what I normally do or else it's, you know, it's respect. And I just don't. Yeah. Have the Levine. I don't think Turner could do that.

Do we really not need to pull apart why Levine wouldn't work? I agree with Rob that like I think you, the Kings kind of did this too. Like last year like at the deadline it was like, do we swing big now? It's like no, like this process is the thing that's going to sort of give you feedback data to like give you help you make better decisions. So let these guys develop. See exactly where the stuff is that you need to work on. And then respond to that instead of responding early and getting yourself in a bad situation. Also enjoy it.

This is the best time in the team building cycle. Everything is fun. The team has a ton of energy. Like, live it. But the stakes are coming soon, though. Are they? Because Halliburns, Max kicks in. Siakum, you're assuming that he's going to get paid.

Yes. So that's why you can't bring in a Levine. Oh, sure. And so on the one hand, maybe Matherin and Wallace, if he does get minutes, is the pathway to that. They can grow organically with those two as the pillars. But maybe those two are the swing pieces to get more veteran help immediately. So they have options. which is great in which I think you need in the market.

It's an interesting case study, honestly, of which way you want to go, specifically tailored to the small market. But this is kind of related to that based on this season. So this is from Peter and Kyle. Three weeks ago, you did your percentage of pie podcast. Hell yeah. One of our best concepts ever, right?

Very legible. I still have no idea what we were talking. The way was the way your eyes glazed over when we started recapping the percentages at the end of that podcast was, I'll never forget it. And then we went back on the percentages almost immediately at the end.

We're like, ah, the teams we all thought in the beginning, we'll give them the highest ones. So you all agreed that the Pacers had a zero percent chance of winning the championship. Now that you're an indie, do you stand by that opinion? Wow. I know you don't.

For the record, I fought for one. I fought for one percent. Did you? I did. I don't remember. It's on tape. It's on tape. It's on tape.

I don't see it this year. It's a rap. Well, I mean, with Halliburton's injuries, like, are we sure he's going to be even healthy and able to lift them in the playoffs? I don't know. One step at a time, guys. One step at a time. Well, it's tough because Halliburton's injury specifically, I mean, you need your hamstrings

regardless. I don't know if you guys have ever pulled your hamstrings. It's the had a bad crossfit exercise one time, and I like couldn't drive home because I couldn't push the gas pedal down. Kyle, you were crossfitting? I tried it. It wasn't for me. I'm a hoop.

I hoop exercise hoop. That's all I do. Anyway, so you can tell body, body says so. Anyway, no, I mean, like, with the way he plays, a lot of his, like, evasion kind of dribble, three-point stuff. Like, I just, it's, you can't avoid using your hamstring in a sense it's ridiculous overall. But, like, for him particularly, what he does well to sort of weaponize his own offense, it's tough. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how he's feeling now, but, like, for him to get 100%, it's going to hurt the Pacers.

Yeah. It's also very little precedent for a team trading for a player as good and significant as the outcome and winning a title in the same season, especially when you're starting from the place the Pacers are. So let's, let's relax. The Pacers are not going to win the championship. It's not the end of the world, guys. They'll be good next year. They'll be more competitive. I don't think they're, are you only even worried about that?

I mean, it's fun around here. Jesus. Like, if you watch like Tyler, Tyler, our Tyler Parker, our buddy, he's like the Oklahoma. He's chronicled the whole thought process with them. and it's like the fun is like the expectations are starting to come. So it's kind of like fun to observe him in like a scientific way that like, you know, this is the most fun time. That's what I always say.

So just enjoy it. Don't mean a rush. So half of these are Pacers questions. Love it. About the ceilings of Halliburton and Mathrin. Okay. About whether Halliburton is at top, what player, Tyrese plus the Achaqum equals how many titles? Well, which.

Just a matter of how many. What? Ah, the new shack and Kobe. Halliburton and Siakum. Well, the Halliburton ceiling question is a good one, I think. Because we do this ranking project at the ringer. I think Halliburton was, what, the 13th ranked player in the NBA? Right behind.

Right behind LeBron James, 13th ranked player in the NBA. So that's where he is right now. He's only getting better. He's only getting more sophisticated one-on-one. He's going to be a better defender as he ages into his career. I don't think it's crazy to say he could be a top-five player in the league. I don't think it's crazy to say that he is going to be like... 100% agree.

He will have a phase of his career if it's not already. And this year might be a little bit of a stretch just because of the competition. But he's going to have a phase where he's on MVP ballots. I think he's going to be that good. We're going to need a towel over here.

Clean up, please. Probably some all-surface cleaner if you have it. Lord have mercy. Just to switch it up a bit. Should the bulls blow it up from Nick? I mean, of course. Of course. I don't know what the fuck they were doing at the trade deadline.

That was that was insane. Nothing they were doing. It's just a dysfunctional franchise. They're underrated in their dysfunction. Their ownership situation is messed up and weird because they're in this like huge market but they're cheap as hell at the same time. And, you know, they let that Gar-Pax thing go on forever for no reason. And so, yeah, whenever your ownership is dysfunctional, it's tough.

Like you got to pray. somehow you know James Dolan hires Donnie Walsh for like three years and you have three years of competence and the rest of the 20 something years is just you know Jerome James type shit it's it's tough when you have incompetent ownership yeah they should have been blown up a long time ago I think we are just like consistently mystified by what the Bulls are doing yeah there I said this to my my buddy. I was like the bulls are like Bruce Willis in the Sixth Sense. They're dead and they don't know. Like they

as bars. No, we're alive. Who's Misha Barton? Who's Misha Barton under the bed? I don't know. That's a good question. Kobe White. Kobe White's having a year, man. He's good as hell. Misha Barton, the girl that was getting poison within the videotape. Okay, yeah. Patrick

Manchow. I missed that episode. One of the questions here. just happens to be. It's Kobe White, the most improved player this season. He might be. He's one of them, to me, and what he's done with his handle, it's just, like, taking his game to another level.

Like, those little jitterbug guys, we just assume and take for granted that they're, like, strong with the rock and can get to their spots automatically. We just assume if a guy short in the NBA, he can handle it. But he's taking his handle to the umpteat power, right? Like, it really makes you wonder if guys, like, say, Jalen Brown had ever, honed in their handle what they could do to their game.

Like, I think Kobe White is like the example of what tightening up your handle and becoming an expert ball handler can do to your game. It's not like he's a better shooter or a way better finisher. He's just better at creative space now with his handle. And that's the huge jump I feel like for a lot of young players is once you get into that creative space of being able to utilize everything you could already do, everything that you hoped you'd be able to do as an NBA player. That's when you take, that's when Kevin Durant took off.

That's when everyone takes off. We've been talking about this model. of point guard though because these days the Kobe white model yes because there seems to be something happening where you don't want a full ball handling point guard like you did back in the day anymore but now it swung so far the other way that we're starting to progress back to something in the middle so the Kobe whites the quickly types you're starting to see this sort of like quick point guard who does enough point guard stuff but isn't so much of a point guard that your big ball handler it doesn't step on that bring Sherman Douglas back

Wait, so who's the bull's big ball handler? Vooch? It's De Rosen technically. He does do a lot of playmaking still. But he gets the offense going, and then he just doesn't dominate the ball in a way that a traditional point guard would. I feel like this is Kyle Mancourt.

Like the future of the point guard position, what are you sensing as far as like where the NBA is or should be going? Kobe White is fascinating case study in this way, like kind of stylistically right down the middle of score first versus like, facilitate. But where do you see like the broader point guard stuff in the NBA happening right now? I think it's just flattened out across all the positions. I mean, like, you know,

we're in the air of the big ball handler, the big playmaker you want to have one. We had our little helio stint there for a few years. And I think everybody's kind of over that. It's not fun to watch. Even even Luca needs help. But I think if you have a big ball handler, the Mavs are an interesting sort of template for this, that like if you have a big ball handler like that, and Kyrie played next to LeBron in the same way. So I think it's been kind of going on for a while. I mean, overall, I just think that it's, you have to have a high, like, level of processing to get, like, the stakes, the buyance, like price in the NBA is just higher than ever because that game, I was talking to a college coach the other day who was just saying that the concepts are so fast that it requires kids to kind of have a point guard mentality when they're developing when they're younger. And it's just different than it was back in the day. So everybody's got to have a little bit of it. And then it depending on who you're playing with, depends on what your role is. With, like, Kobe, I don't know. Was Levine the guy that was sort of like eating into his runway to develop? Definitely.

Yeah. Last year. Everything took off for the Bulls in, in, in a sense that it took off at all this year. It was when Zach Levine left. And that's why you want him on the Pacers. I'm just saying, everybody's sick of him there. With a fresh start, things might be different. That's all I'm saying.

Kobe White, though, for a young team is exactly what you want in a point guard. Who's like, clearly not a superstar. But he could fit next to all kinds of. players. He could fit next to all kinds of deals. He doesn't take a lot off the table. So that's the kind of guy you want to not reduce your options. So I didn't understand this question until I read it to the end

because it asked about Trace Jackson Davis. Oh yeah. Oh, here we go. Sure we like him up here. And I was like, let's go. Why the fuck are we talking about Trace Jackson Davis? But he's from. Of course. Where do you see? Of course. Where do you see Trace Jackson Davis's

career progressing towards in the NBA? Any predictions or comps or what his career could be? Roosiers. No, I think this is a Kyle. Well, I think it's, I think it's a joint venture over here. Well, let's talk about it through the lens of our site. How we do it.

I mean, do you all think he has a top 100 runway in his career? Like, could he be a top of, yeah. Runway. Like, not to go full blog boy with him, like, why does he not play more? Yeah. Like, every time he gets. I mean. But like when, especially when Draymond has been out, whenever Trace Jackson Davis gets in.

His minutes went like this. It's like they're inverted. Like when Draymond's back, he plays left. It's just kind of like. And classic Steve Kerr, like, I don't fully. trust this young guy stuff happening there, but the momentum he gives their offense, his feel in the middle of the floor.

Like, this stuff is real and really advanced for a player his age in a way that, like, I'm looking to cultivate that, even if I'm a team like the Warriors. And like, Dario, like, I support Dario Sarich in his life and endeavors. He's had his chances, right? What do we do? Get out of here. Like, play

Trace Jackson Davis over Darius. Chase and Davis got to go on the paper and say he doesn't believe in Steve Curry. That's the key. To the moon. Kaminga literally had to bully this guy in the press into getting playing time. That might be the route. Do we have them on your top 15 right now? I don't think so.

I think he went to like 17. So that's what people don't see the line between below. Like some guys would be like, yeah, it's all been like minutes this year. He's a play. Yeah. But he fits their style so well. Like, you know, take a drink.

He's got gigantic hands. He's got like 11-inch hands. And he could just kind of hold it up there at the high post. And when they picked him, I was just like, Yeah, I mean, this is going to work. Like, he's really, really fast out of, like, the elbow area, like attack and other bigs. He's a good finisher. He's pretty athletic.

He's a sneaky good passer. The shot is good. We'll just see. We'll see if he ever has to shoot. But, yeah. It is funny because we've talked before about how the Warriors woo-woo stuff is a little much. But as soon as Trace Jackson Davis get in there, as soon as Pods get in there, you see how guys with flow and feel just do adapt to what they're doing. In ways that Kaminga hasn't until now.

No. Until this season. You need guys who play your way. That's why we're bringing Kyle. He plays our way. Yeah. He plays about as much as Tristan. When I'm not being emotionally abused, yeah.

Well, we have a little Steve Kerr in us too, apparently. Yeah, go. We're going. Last question here. Who is your pick for MVP, which is getting pretty dicey right now? I mean, I think it's a two-person race at this point with Yokic and probably SGA. Kauai's coming on. I was accosted by our producer, Isaiah Blakely, last night, about, like,

why Jason Tatum isn't getting more serious MVP consideration. So I want to get that record. I want to get that noted for the record. He's top five. He's five, I guess. They came running over to me like in a haze at the bar. They were like, who's the best two-way players in the NBA? It was like, good field and waiting for me to say Jason Tatum.

Am I right? Come on. This is really hard. Yeah. Where are you? He's only 18. I mean, I'm, I think Yoki. has to be, you know, at the forefront

because just the guys just output his numbers. However you want to measure it is just crazy. But I mean, I'm a Luca guy. I think Luca is just playing out of his mind the way he controls every single game. As great as SGA has been and as great as he is, I think Luca's impact just outweighs what he does

on a night-to-night basis. So I'm Yokic is still the favorite to me. And I think Luca is number two. What's crazy is like Luca might end up fourth. Yeah. Because of the record. Janus and Shea and Yonkish. I don't think the bucks are ever going to get out of the month in terms of winning.

Janus has been incredible. That team is just a mess. I think what's going to happen is that right now people are leaning Yokic because they don't know what to do post them. And they're just like best player, right? He's the safe primary candidate right now. I think there's going to be some blowback because people get bored of voting for Yokic. And so they're going to want to lean on a Shea in order to just do something new. But I also think Luca probably is the best gross stock.

If you're buying low right now, just because... Are you good at Van Duel odds right now? Yeah. Watch us live on Panduel TV. No, but I think with the bigs that they got at the deadline, clearly, like, they're built to play out the rest of the season. I could see him taking a big jump. What is he?

34 points per game right now. It's threatening, like, all-time statistics in terms of points production. Highest lift in the league, I think, by far. Just in terms of his responsibility on that team. If you're going to buy low, I think in low, I mean like fourth right now. I think right now I would vote Shay, to be honest with you. Really? I think I would vote Shay's your MVP.

Like today, but there's a lot of time left. And I consider, like, for me, Janus is still very much in the picture. I agree with you. I don't think he'll win. Like the public, like the perception of the bucks and the, like, the way that's reflected is weird. They're very good. Are they? Deeply flawed.

Three and seven with Doc? Like, you're telling me that the Nuggets regular season has been that much. better than that, that the Mavericks regular season has been much better than that? I'm blown away right now. Do you think the Bucks narrative problem is like, is it like really like visible statement wins? Is that why like publicly the murmuring has been so loud? Have they just not, they haven't had like that just curb stomp of another good team on national TV kind of a moment. What it, what's that about? They're just since the new year. They're literally not a good team. It's three and seven, I think, since Doc. And before that, they were losing games at the top of January still with Griffin. And so like,

I agree with you. You look at the standings. It's so jarring because they're what, like probably third or fourth right now. I haven't looked at the same as in a few days. If you vote Janus for MVP, you're an idiot. Damn, I might vote Janus for MVP. That dude is not the MVP at a bit. Shit. You have a way with words.

That's about to give me the fucking podcast bucks. I think that's it. That's all we got? That's all we got. That's all the juice we got off the dribble today. So before we go, thank you to Isaiah Blakely, our regular producer. Give it up for him. Give it up.

Thank you to Ben Cruz, our other producer. Thank you to Elizabeth with this show on. Thank you to all the guys out there. Joe Me, thank you very much. And thank you to y'all for coming out for this show. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Also, thank you to John Robinson, who created our group chat theme song. He is a Hoosier. He teaches at Indiana University, so give it up to him. Oh. And thank you to State Farm. And the high-fi indie. This was great.

We really appreciate you guys coming. This means a lot to us. We haven't done this before. And so to see you guys out here showing up for us, selling out the show, this really means a lot. So we love you all. And we hope to give you more podcast goodness in the new year. Thank you. Thanks, everyone.

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