The Ringer NBA Show - Group Chat Live: Finals Ripple Effects, Offseason Superlatives, and the Most Intriguing Teams In the NBA Draft

Episode Date: June 19, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos are live from the El Rey Theater in Los Angeles to kick off the Ringer Residency! They start the show by discussing the Celtics' NBA Finals victory, Joe Mazzulla's status as a coach, and debate who’s going to be the Jrue Holiday of this offseason (01:30). Next, the guys are joined by Chris Ryan for an offseason preview based on Mazzulla quotes (23:54). With the NBA draft next week, the guys bring on J. Kyle Mann to discuss the perception of this year's class, all the noise around Bronny James, and the four most intriguing teams in the draft (50:59). Also, the guys welcome back Chris and Kyle to answer questions from the crowd (01:18:06). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Guests: Chris Ryan and J. Kyle Mann Producers: Jessie Lopez, Chia Hao Tat, Victoria Valencia, Elizabeth Fierman, Helen Eichner, and Charlie Finan Additional Production Support: Conor Nevins and Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Y'all, it's the Midnight Boys. Poo-Bee-Boo! And we're opening up the kitchen again to talk about the Bear season three, returning to Hulu on June 27th. That's right, the Midnight Boys are taking over Prestige TV. How you feeling, cousin? Cousin! New restaurant, new takes, new ups, new downs, new season. I'm wearing to go, Chuck.

That's what I'm talking about. Make sure you plug in to the Prestige TV feed. Van and I will be talking about every single episode. of the bear. That's June 27th on the Prestige TV feed. What's up? What's up?

What's up? Hello, fellow apron pussies. I love that. Thank you for joining us at the Alleroy Theater for, what is the second live show? There you go.

That's Rob Mahoney. Hi. That's Biguaz. What up, y'all? I'm Justin Barry. and welcome to group chat live. We got Chris Ryan with us tonight. We got J. Kyle Mann.

We got some Q&As. We got a meet and greet. So if you want to stay after the show, we'll be out in the lobby. But I think first, we need to talk about the Boston Celtics. Oh, God. I think they've got the right idea.

So I don't know if you guys caught it, but the Celtics won a title yesterday. And who among us could have predicted such a thing? Yes. It's almost like somebody's been banging the Celtics all year and it actually came through. How do you feel, Justin? I feel vindicated.

Do you? Yeah, I feel right, which I'm now used to. We do owe you at dinner. Justin tried to convince us to wear leprechaun costumes tonight. It did not take. Rob was against it. Can I actually get a read of the crowd? Would you guys have been into Rob and Wads wearing leprechaun costumes?

I'd say mostly positive. I'll take that as a... You're insulting my culture. Are you even Irish? Yes. I actually did it. Mahoney is an Irish name, brother. I think this is now an HR violation.

Get cultured for once, Justin there. Please. So we're going to talk a little bit about the finals. We're going to talk about the offseason with Chris. We're going to talk draft with Kyle Man, because believe it or not, we don't know shit about this draft. So I wrote down four, possible butterfly effects

now that Boston has its 18th title. First and foremost, I want to ask you guys Celtics. Now brimming with confidence, become the team that some people thought the Nuggets were going to be this season. What do you think?

I see what you did there. Yeah. I see what you did there. How do you think they'll be the version of the team that we thought the Nuggets would be? I just, I think you were an optimist. you might say part of the issue with the Celtics was whatever was happening to them late in some of these games, the gumminess of the offense,

Jason Tatum, all that stuff. Now that they have the wind under their sails, now that they know that they've done it, can that kind of overcome some of the issues that they've faced? Maybe they become the sort of dominant team that we thought the Nuggets were being the city. I mean, they've been in their head probably more than any very good to great team and recent memory has been.

And so the idea of some kind of cleansing or exercise of demons, I think is very tempting. And yet, I think we're going to get stuck back into the same cycle with them, Waz. Are we not going to have the same conversation next year? Is it going to meaningfully change, do you think? I think it's definitely going to be the same conversation amongst our cohort, right? Because some people, I'm not one of them, will want to denigrate the championship and say it was easy, the road was whatever, and all the injuries in the East, which I think you might, whatever,

you can agree with that or not. look they beat the hell out of the fucking Mavericks they fucking pounded their heads in and the Mavericks played legitimate teams on the way so I'm not going to sit here and be like the championship is fake like they did what they had to do they handled their business unlike the wolves unlike my nuggets

unlike OKC unlike a bunch of other teams and so I'm not going to say that but what I will say you know Tatum's going to get his money we're already hearing that Derek White is going to get his money everybody's going to be nice and fat Everybody's going to be kissing their ass and patting them on the ass all summer. They're going to be hearing that shit for a long time.

Will they come out next year with the same hunger, with the same intensity? With all this shit to prove, will Jason Tatum still be pounding his chest and yelling at people? I don't know. It remains to be seen. But that's the kind of thing I think could trip them up is complacency. Maybe we're not learning from the Celtics, but we are learning from you, Justin, who came out of last year's title with the Nuggets and taught us all. Waz and I and all our fair listeners, just because you win it all doesn't mean you're perfect.

And you can come into a season with flaws. And I think the Celtics flaws are still there to some extent, but they were historically dominant in their run through the east. They're going to be a great contender again. But you have to prove that you can beat your flaws every time out. It's not you do it once and then all of a sudden you're cured. Well, also, do we know what Christopps Porzingus is going to look like next season after this mysterious injury that nobody has ever had that is now going to take months to recover from?

And so Al is going to be, what, 38 next year? It sounds like he's going to come. come back. Obviously, he's been awesome at his age, but you assume he's going to fall off eventually, and unless they replace the cornet minutes or really get comfortable with O'Shea Bresset in that role.

I mean, you're cutting two, D. We just started this podcast. Strick into O'Shea Bresset. I think we're in the future, you know? I think the Chris Stab's injury problems is baked into the structure of the team in the sense that, like, that's why they are as deep as they are, because they can't

rely on any one person to get things done. And I think, look, they won all the, most of these games without Chris Stabs. Kick the Mavericks ass two times without Chris Stabs, right? And so I'm not too worried about the Chris Stabs. I just think it's the regular things that happen. Like, teams are going to retool this offseason, make trades before the deadline with the express written consent of the NBA to kick the Celtics ass.

And so now that everybody's gunning for them and people are going to be like, you know what, we need to gear our schemes. make our roster towards beating these fucking people in Boston, I think it'll just be a little bit different next year, man. I was afraid what you were going to say there. People, people, people.

I mean, the East could be significantly better next season. The West was a goddamn slaughterhouse this year, but the East, they could be almost as top-heavy as what we saw in the West. Philly, we'll talk about probably later. Milwaukee with another off-season with Dame actually working out during training camp.

and Indy, presumably were better to the Knicks. There's a lot of teams there, so this could get harder, and I wonder if Kristops was their margin to be the dominant team that could automatically vault over those sorts of teams. I think even with that question, they just have so much less to prove than all those other groups. Like the Bucks are a great example. They have so much to figure out before next year's playoffs,

including how do their core guys stay on the floor? You don't really wonder with Tatum and Brown in particular. And so Chris Haps can be the variable you're talking, the variable you're talking about. You know we love those. And even if he doesn't play for a chunk of the season, they can still be a great team. I think that got the biggest reaction so far.

Number two on the list, Joe Missoula answering presses questions like Morpheus becomes the new getting popped. This is very inside media of you. Yeah, are you guys familiar with the idea of getting popped? It's back when Popovich would be mean to every single sideline interview person. Like Lisa Salters would be like,

pop, like, you guys are playing good defense. Could you tell us something about that? Literally making Dorisberg cry. Yeah. It became a weird cuck thing for a lot of media members. People did really love it. They loved getting

bashed. Well, not even just that. People would be like, oh my God, there goes pop again, being rude in an idiot. Oh, it's so great. And, you know, after a while, everybody got the hint that that shit's not funny. But for a while, people were clapping for it. And I think what Justin's saying is, will people start

clapping for Joe Missoula referencing Jesus Christ at a press conference when asked about black coaches? Well, I don't know about that one. It's a different take on the Matrix. I don't think anybody's ever going to clap for that. I think it's two things. I think...

Not with Juneteenth around the corner, right? Come on. Can't do that. I would never. I wonder if Missoula becomes one of the biggest characters in the NBA. I also wonder if he starts to get

heat as like among the best coaches in the NBA. Is it very good coach? Is he not? one of the biggest characters among coaches already. Yeah, but that's a really low bar.

I mean, it is a low bar. But look, there's an opportunity there. NBA coaches are maybe more boring than they've ever been. They refuse to even tell you who they're starting in a game

until they turn in their official card. God forbid you give up the state secret who's going to start in one of these games. And Joe Missoula coming out and being a total weirdo all the time has a certain appeal to it. I think for it to take another level, though,

like, are they Christian? and not black thing would have to be covered on first take. You want him in the culture war. That's what, well, I would love for that. That's how you transcend. Like, that's my kind of culture war.

But, like, I think that's how Missoula, though, would transcend everything. If he started getting covered, like an actual celebrity. Like, nobody really took him serious all year. He's this new guy. He's a younger coach. They don't parse his words, like, on Bill's show. Like Bill, like, you know, was making fun of him all year, but it was like coaching related stuff.

It wasn't about his personality. Second Rojo is right. Second Rojo, yes, exactly. I think if people start really treating him like the celebrity that he might become, then maybe. Is he ready to be a celebrity? I don't think we're ready for him to be a celebrity. It sounds like it. There's a void.

All right. Question number three. Other teams go looking for their Drew Holiday. And we're saying this is a veteran to kind of downshift. into a supplementary role. We talked about this in the Trends podcast a couple weeks ago. I do wonder if one of the lessons from

this playoffs is teams being a little less precious with their drafts, especially going into this draft. Give a real like fuck them picks Sneed, as everyone in LA probably is very familiar with, attitude, and they just try to build the best possible version of the team immediately,

which the Celtics did, the Mavs did too. I don't know. I'm dubious to that because the Celtics our team that went to like six conference finals in a row, right? So at a certain point, they're not taking a gamble on Drew Holiday. This is a team that's going to the finals, going to the conference.

Like, they've been competitive. They've been right there for a bunch of years and they was like, fuck that. We're doubling down on what we have here. We believe in it. Now, you know, if Indiana wants to be like fuck our future and just start getting vets and loading up because

they went to the conference finals this year, I don't know that I would necessarily agree with approach. You know, I think it's different strokes for different folks. Well, we're basically talking about four teams that own almost all of the future picks at this point. You got the Thunder, the Jazz, the Cavs, maybe the Nets, if you want to include that in that conversation with how much they got from Phoenix. But these other teams, I agree with you, are probably going to be desperate. I think that's what we did see is even not in the Drew Holiday bracket, but at the deadline, if you're close at all, you should go for it. You should be

trading for Daniel Gafford and PJ Washington, and you might break through and make the finals. Or maybe the lesson, Justin, like the meme that I sent you guys, is that you don't give up on your core and when opportunity strikes, you do what you do. So Atlanta shouldn't give up one true on... Dejante Murray and Tre Young, yeah. They tried to give up on us. I heard Chris Ryan was trying to get our show canceled

and I fought to keep this core together. Appreciate that. I don't know how many games were winning. I don't know how many duck boats we're going to get with this pod, but we'll see. I wrote down two guys who might fit this mold. because in reality, I think it is kind of a pretty tried and true method. Teams just kind of going out and getting a last piece,

either at the deadline or in the offseason when you have a team this close. But for instance, if the Warriors decided to shake things up pretty significantly, does a team like, for instance, the Lakers or somebody else that is already right there, be like, you know what, Draymond? Fuck our picks in the future. We just want this guy to come in. Lakers maybe not so much because they need other pieces in addition to that. You kind of need to be one team away.

But he's the type of guy where it's like, we take the risk. Drew didn't have the wrist, but obviously Draymond does, but he comes in and just does all the little things. Draymond is your Drew Holiday? So that's what I was going to say. That was my problem. Like, sometimes people say, like, the picks are

blowing up your future. Like, Draymond is like a suicide bomber with a, like, bomb strapped to his chest. Like, you're blowing up your future with the pics and then you're killing yourself by, you know, not checking his papers, you know? Whoever it's going to be, it's got to be someone who's a good soldier. Like, someone who's willing to do less,

willing to take a smaller role. Like that's the magic of Drew or whoever you want to point at with any championship team. There's always somebody who's doing that. Draymond is not that kind of person. I think of, you know,

when Golden State went out and got Igodala. Yeah. Like to me, that was the move. That's kind of the modern template, really, for this. Where you say,

you know, a guy who was considered to be a star in his role in other places, like he was looked at as a potential all-star damn there every year, comes into a situation

and he becomes a supercharged role play. I think that's the type of move you want to make. But again, it should be for a high quality guy, a person whose behavior you have a reasonable expectation that you can predict. I don't know that Draymond necessarily fits in that category. Well, the other guy I have written down was Jeremy Grant, just because the Blazers have so many of these mid-tier vets.

Honestly, a lot of the Celtics castaways. Can he be that for another team? Seems like he doesn't want that. He probably could have had that with the Nuggets. But I do wonder if the Blazers keep losing, does you want to go find that with the Miami? Sacramento could be in that sort of territory. Maybe if the Mavs significantly messed things up,

but I don't think they have the Picks capital to get him. Not to go full apron pussy on this, but this is where it becomes a problem. It's with salaries like Jeremy Grants. It's great point. When the luxury of having an amazingly overqualified fifth or sixth or seventh the best player in your team, we may see that kind of fall away.

And we may see the Celtics. fall away over time. Like, this is going to be a really expensive core to maintain as you go year over year. Like, Drew has already gotten paid in addition to all the other guys we've walked through.

I don't know how many teams are really going to be willing to do that. Yeah. I could just see this summer. Remember when Kyle Lowry, or when Chris Ball had success as like the old guard, point guard who lashed on to the suns

and just like reared the youth? I could see that. And then Kyle Lowry, everyone was like, he's going to be the next guy and the Pelicans cleared all that cat for him and then didn't get him. I could see that being said,

about Drew. Like, we need to go find our Drew. Yeah, sure, sure. What do you think about shooting, too? I think that's the other thing we're going to hear a lot about, teams being like, well, they work the math advantage pretty significantly. Can we do the same? If I could take this, I think it's like pretty tough

because I think everyone already realizes the math advantage with shooting, but the Celtics just did it better and just more extremely than everybody else. But I think we're going to hear this a lot. I don't know how you replicate. the Celtics formula when they have two guys in house who are wing players, the most premium position in the league, pass, dribble, shoot, defend. That's the secret. Like, they already have good guys who are really good. Yeah, like they already have two guys at that position. So now, you know, when you go out and trade for Derek White, he doesn't really have to be your point guard.

He doesn't have to go out and be Chris Paul. True Holiday could come out and just make wide open layups and wide open threes, right? And then Chris Staps, I think he played an incredible part of taking the lid off of that thing. But I think it starts with having the two Jays, man. And you can't really replicate that. Unless you think Jaden McDaniels is the next. Shaden Springer. Just get all of the Jays?

I don't know if we learned anything about shooting in these playoffs. We knew it was valuable. It was clearly ultra-valuble to the Celtic specifically. It allows them to be who they are. But does this feel like an evolution? Maybe a logical endpoint of a thing we already knew, but it doesn't feel like growth to me. Well, to get super nerdy,

I don't know if this is the appropriate for. I think this is the place. Come on, man. We amongst Laker fans, the smartest fans in the industry. Okay, all right. Everybody knows that. Is there a defensive counter to this? Do, like, do defenses find some sort of wrinkle

because so many teams are rushing to play the way the Celtics? Yeah, it's the goal estate thing all over again. It's finding, try to be as switch-heavy as possible, force these guys to beat you one-on-one. Basically what the Celtics did to every. everybody else, people need to be trying to do to them, right? Like, make it a Tatum one-on-one, make the right decision every single time, make a couple of stepbacks, make Chris Stabbs meet you in isolation. It becomes that thing, because I think that's when people figured out how to slow down Golden State

and get them out of their beautiful game movement stuff. It's like, let's switch everything, keep everybody in front, make Clay Thompson put it on the floor. There is a degree with Boston that's kind of similar to whether you want to think about the Warriors or the Rockets teams of those era, where they kind of make you play like them and they're better at it than you are. And so the more prepared you are to do that, and the Mavs were not. They just weren't able to get downhill.

They weren't able to get to all the other things they want to do that the Celtics don't have any interest in at all. Yeah. So last one I have here, speaking of the Mavs, Lucas switches to light beer, invests in a Versa climber

and comes back next season in the best shape of his life. Do we think the beer is the problem? I think if he switched to light, it would help. I think anything would help. What's the hookah consumption? Oh, so you think that's the big issue?

I'm not here to diagnose. I just know, like, some things need to change. Are you a hookah guy? Are you a hookah guy? Am I a hookah guy? Do I look like a hookah? Have you ever tried, hookah? Yes.

No, I'm not a hookah guy. I know enough to know that I'm not. Okay. That's same. I don't know. I think when somebody plays as well as Luca did the entire postseason on a bad wheel with the chest contusion and all of that. You know, I understand why he might think,

look, man, I was good enough to get us to the fucking finals. Like, why do I need to change my regiment? And I just wonder when, you know, you got a Boy King situation up there in Dallas where everybody's literally scared shitless of the guy. Who's going to actually tell him to do something different up there? Rob? That's my job?

That's Brian Win Horse. Well, I guess he is. They got a higher wind horse. Him in house. He's also 25 years old. I don't want a boy King Luca too much. He's an adult man who should be making adult professional decisions. And sometimes he doesn't.

And while he doesn't, he's maybe the best or I would say at worst, like the third best basketball player in the world. So it kind of reminds me of Shaq in a lot of ways of these guys who can be completely dominant, never take it 100% seriously. And he could still end up winning titles as a result of that. What about the thing we do with like Eastern Bloc guys? because he's from like a war-torn country he doesn't need to do any of this shit like

he can smoke thing we do what is this thing he's like tough and hard scrabble like the Yokish brothers and shit like these guys are serious they're from a war-torn country like exactly he played in Europe like maybe he doesn't need to conform to all the things

that every other professional athlete who achieve stuff does maybe so any other player taking drags irresponsible Luca smoking yeah that was part of Lottie B Vox charm, I was told back in the day. So, but I think this is his team until he gets to his next contract at this point.

This is kind of the come down effect of the magical postseason run. Now you're like, oh, we are locked in. And I think to some degree, like, that could be a little scary. But I think for him, he probably needs to do these little things on the margin because there really isn't much help coming unless they swing like Tim Hardaway Jr.'s expiring into something. And you're just hoping for internal improvement. Now, lively as young, he's going to improve.

PJ Washington was awful in the postseason, only had half a season. Gafford only had half a season. So there's stuff to internally improve, but it is going to come internally, I think, if they're going to make the leap from making a finals to being the finals favorite in the West. And you have the offsets of Kyrie Irving getting older.

And for a guy who's alleged to be the most skilled player in the history of the NBA, oh my God. You got offset that somehow. So I don't know. What do you think about the West's next? season. Are you like Mavs right at the top there? Are you expecting the nugs? No, I'm back on. I'm still Nuggets hive. I'm still back on on the Nuggets for sure.

I think they still have you think we would not be back on our bullshit. No, no. I'll be back on my nuggets. I think the thunder will be tough. I mean, they got to do something about the size. You saw the trade deadline where, you know, Presti, the pick hoarder was like, oh, we don't need to do anything. We'll just go to the postseason. We don't care about rebounding and shit like that and they got their asses kicked on the boards, right? I mean, they were like within a shot and change of the Western Conference finals.

Rob, they lost in the second round. We're not talking about the actual nitty-gritty. We're just going with the narrative. No, but I think OKC will be really good again. I think the wolves would be back being good again. I think they have an interest in offseason, honestly. I think

the West is going to be tough again. There's no guarantee that the clippers. There's no guarantee that the Mavericks are going to be like in some incredible position to get back to the finals. And that's why I'm kind of disappointed in, you know, just some of the laxid-daisical ways they played at various points where, you know, I get it. A lot of you guys are young and you're in the finals and it's like, oh, we'll be here again. It's like, that's not guaranteed.

I think it's going to be just a complete muck in the West. And the time for kind of like standing still with what you got is completely over. The Thunder have to keep pushing forward. But not just them. the Mavs just got to the just got to the finals and to bar for you was like you got to do it again you got to come back and do it again and not just getting through the playoff like bracket but you have to be aggressive all over again you have to find ways like can you improve on Derek Jones Jr. spot in the rotation like how do you become a better team and all of these

franchises have to be working the margins in that way he's really their only free agent do you think he comes back Derek Jones yeah might I mean he was on the minimum like I think I think there's going to be a lot of interest in him but he's also the kind of player who like by the end of the finals was almost unplayable in that rotation like they were just not guarding him so you could see how they could get better there but everyone has to get better with their equivalent of the Derek

Jones that's that's kind of what worries me about the way these Western Conference teams are operating is like some some front office or some ownership is going to talk themselves into oh we can wait another year this isn't our time it's got to be everybody's time pretty much right now well since we're already talking about offseason

we should bring on our first guests he is a Philly legend it's Chris Ryan. Let's go. Hey pal. What's up, guys? Hey, Chris. You missed one piece of the Celtics championship, which I disassociated through the

entire last six weeks, so I haven't really processed that. But we haven't talked about them celebrating their finals victory in Miami. Yes. Which is either like a 4chan level troll job of heat culture or the weakest thing I have ever seen from a group of professional athletes. We were talking about this backstage. Could they not find anywhere to party in Boston for like three days before the parade?

They had to go to Florida for this. Was, you're the Brian Winhorst of the NBA party scene. Do you want to talk about it? Okay, so these guys are not happy with the decision for a bunch of rich, famous, easily identifiable black dudes, not spending three days. Those are your words.

I was saying. Not spending three days and nights in the city of Boston partying. Like there just isn't an infrastructure. No, but that's what we're saying. It's not that we have a problem with the decision. It's that it's an indictment of Boston as a city. That's what we're saying.

I don't, I would, so if that's the case, I would say then that 99.99% of American cities are indicted. You heard it here first. The only two places these guys can go to have the type of fun they're trying to have. What kind of fun? What are you thinking about? Yeah.

What are they getting after? I mean, it might involve, you know, sex workers, strippers. You think Boston has as good as strippers as Miami? You want to know. So that's our show. No. Everybody knows this. And everybody knows this.

Everybody knows this. And I think more importantly, again, like, they, will not have to do anything special to or at the places that they go in order to celebrate. This is the thing. It should be special. Miami is going to be like, if Miami is about the heat culture that they say that they're about, they're not going to welcome these dudes into live. They're going to be like that. They're going to welcome them into live. I think, I think a bunch of hundred millionaires will be welcomed into live quite comfortably.

And again, again, there's like, you can go out for a night in Boston. And you could keep some shit open past 2 a.m. in Boston. And it might be cool. There might be got a guy named Sully there. It might be cool. In Miami, you can go to a place that's already open 24 hours a day. There might be a girl named Michelle there. There might be a little shine there.

So how do we celebrate this show? Do we have to go to Vegas or is L.A. Acceptable. Acceptable. Yeah. Depending on the night, LA could be acceptable for us. If group chat were celebrating a championship, like, let's say we went from the number three podcasts in the number three

NBA podcast in the entire world to number one and we wanted to celebrate a championship. We could probably do LA on the right night. But like realistically, yeah. But realistically, if we wanted to do it right, yeah. And we had the budget,

it would be in Miami. Do we have the budget? I'm gonna kick that one up to Sean. Like, okay, for instance, let's just say you want to get on a mega yacht tomorrow. You doing that shit in fucking King Connir? Yeah, for sure.

It's wrong with you people. They don't want to party with Barack Obama. They want to party with Monica Lewinsky. Come on, y'all. What's wrong with y'all, man? Well, Chris, you came with some off-season agenda? Yeah, I wanted to kind of preview the off-season. That's what we call the transition.

They got me started, y'all. Great segue. I wanted to preview the off-season in honor of our boss Bill Simmons, who's not here tonight because he got arrested trying to rob Fenway Park last night. I thought I would do like old school bill ESPN page two style column where I'm giving out basically offseason superlatives, offseason awards. He would usually use quotes from a movie like a departed or rounders. I'm going to do Joe Missoula quotes.

This is really just an excuse to do Joe Missoula quotes. Shout out to Sir. I was inspired by reading her piece on The Ringer about the Tao of Joe Missoula. I've also just been fascinated by his development over the course of the season from curiosity to megastar. It really clicked for me when I saw somebody had made a video of him saying

the Kyrie thing about villains but painted the Joker's face onto his face and was playing dark night music underneath of it. That's like we have something here. This is a special character that he's treasure. So the first one I want to give out an award to

is his quote when he said somebody asked him if he was excited to meet the royal family. And he said, Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, I'm only familiar with one royal family. And that one goes out

to LeBron James. So, the king, I still feel like he holds the keys to the entire offseason. In all likelihood, he will stay with Los Angeles.

He's built his empire here. This is the county seat. His kids are around. I can't really see him leaving Los Angeles. But let's just say, we wake up. tomorrow and Woj tells us that the Lakers have given Bill's self a godfather offer.

And is not going to be JJ coaching. It's not going to be Berego or wherever LeBron wants. And he's just like, you know what? It's decision time again. Like, what if LeBron just takes the Derek Jones Jr. spot? Like, I'm just saying, like, what if he does something? Is it, is it, are we at the point with year like 39, 40 or LeBron where he could just be like, I'm going to do something really weird to, like, capture the off season one last time before I ride off.

Maybe it's not another ring he wants. He wants to own another off season. I mean, he's also better positioned to do it financially than anybody else. Like Nike is his primary employer. So if he wanted to also work for the Phoenix Suns for the minimum, he could do it. He could get away with that. I don't know. I have a hard time seeing it because how was he going to pay for his team that he's allegedly getting in Las Vegas?

This is my idea. was is if he goes to the Mavericks, what if Miriam Edelson breaks off a little something in Vegas? And he's like, you know, there's like a... That would be a great mask off moment, right? The chain of events. Where LeBron was like a bright Bart head

the entire time. Maybe a VP spot? And he's like just completely unmasked. That would be amazing. Right? Yeah. This is the Joe Missoula in all of us. You just got to use your mind.

No, I think we've just been through so many off seasons with LeBron at this point that until he actually goes and does something differently, I remain unconvinced. So you don't think he's going back to the Lakers. I think he is going back to the Lakers until I hear otherwise. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I feel the opposite.

I feel like he is not going to let Boston bask in the glory of like an uninterrupted 10-day news cycle and waiting until free agency starts. There's going to be some like LeBron is concerned with like the speed of the Lakers. coaching decision. Something is going to happen with that. I can, we can just put a pit of that. Yeah, you know what? This is the thing.

I would believe that if the money weren't such an issue. Like, he's so, he put it out there. He leaked it via Windhorst that like he's trying to get a three-year max deal, which is like three years, 170 million or whatever the hell it is, this offseason. That's his primary concern. And like, that felt like he was talking directly to the Lakers. If we were getting the reports from Wendy and the like that, like, like, yo, LeBron has all these crazy investments.

He's so fucking filthy. Richard doesn't matter. He can go anywhere this offseason. I'd be like, okay. But then I hear he wants money. So I just don't know how that works. You know, that being said, if I could pick a destination for the guy, it wouldn't be Dallas.

It'd definitely be New York. I would love to see a shocker. That would be your pick. That would be a Philadelphia. Here's the next Joe Missoula quote. Everybody wants to win until it's really. time to win. And then you have to nut up and do a lot of shit you don't want to do. This one goes to Jimmy Butler.

Wow. And in this case, the shit he might not want to do is play more than 60 games in a regular season and avoid the play in with Chicago and Atlanta and perhaps just put his team in a slightly more comfortable position going into the playoffs. I know they're like the Warriors. You can't not the Warriors W, capital W, lowercase W. Like they are the Warriors of the postseason and you can't count them out and they'll come from outside of the seating to win the whole thing. But wouldn't life be easier if they were just like the foreseed?

You know, like, is it that hard to win seven more games? And Jimmy is Jimmy. You know, it's like he's in the last year of his deal with Miami. I think he also wants the indication that he's going to be extended. Can he be extended now probably? He wants it badly. But he's flirting with everybody else. The Lakers included and Cameron Brink included.

And you know who's not flirting? Well, I don't know if that was the Lakers. It was incidental flirting. But Pat Riley is like, you know, no guys need to be available. Like, your best ability is, you know, your availability. I just think that the Jimmy stuff is weird. I think the fact that, like, it's even been out there that he could wind up back in Philly

is bizarre because that was not ultimately a positive experience for most of the people involved in that situation. How do you feel about it? I want to move forward, I think. Like, I just don't want to look back. You don't want to look back. It was awful. Like, he was cool in the playoffs, although very erratic.

But, like, him every other week. It was some weird story about him like dressing down Brett Brown in a in a locker room. So Brett Brown, maybe not as good of a coach as Nick Nurse. I don't know. Like it's a feedback situation. Like he just was offering some constructive criticism. But I don't want that back in Philly. Find any new slant exactly.

Any other Jimmy Butler thoughts? I thought the Pat thing was funny. It just feels like Pat's like kind of getting old and like doesn't really give a fuck. But he does this every year. But this was different because Jimmy didn't plan the playoffs because a dude fell on his knee. His knee got like bent at a 45 degree angle and so he couldn't play. This wasn't like some wear and tear. Don't you think it was probably also like we didn't need to be in that seating?

Like we didn't need to play. That's fair. You could have been the four seat if he had just played. That's probably a fair criticism. I just think like the guy's knee got legitimately cooked in the last game of the season. Pat Riley also set Tyler Hero on fire in that press conference. Well, he deserves it. Yeah.

It's incredible stuff. Here's my question. Is Miami as a destination, and I guess live as a destination as well? We don't really do live like that anymore. It's out. No, it's not out, but there's like other spots.

It's like, Mr. Jones. It's like of a shit going on. You don't have to say them on air. You can keep a lot. No free ass. When we're on the PJ, we'll talk about it.

Have they completely ridded themselves of the stench of whatever happened with Dwayne Wade? Because Butler kind of, to a large degree, got them back on. track in the Star Game. It wasn't that long ago when we were talking about fucking Dion Waiters and James Johnson

and their cool offseason workout regimen and like what abs they have from just like doing a bunch of crunches all the time. Like, I'll be sure Miami is back to the point where they could say to Jimmy no, we'll get somebody else. I mean, they've been to several finals and a conference finals since then.

I mean, I'm sure Pat Riley thinks they're that. So that's kind of all that matters. Like if the guy in charge wants to proceed that way and feel like, yo, we're the guys that get to dictate terms to people, then that's what they'll do. I just, I don't know. I think when you're playing the superstar game, it's a crapshoot, man. Like, these guys are human beings. Like, you're at the mercy at their whims at all times.

And no matter what, if that's what you're chasing, then you're chasing Dame Lillard's willingness to basically tell the entire Portland to go fuck themselves. Or his willingness not to, to save face. and therefore not, you know what I mean, forcing his way to your team. And so once you're playing that game, it's never going to be full proof as far as I'm concerned. Well, and the Dean Lillard thing isn't necessarily over.

You know, like there's always photos circulating. Him and Bam. Yeah, I got it all good authority. They have very close friends. Bam is the reason he wanted to go to Miami. It's linked to the Jimmy part of this, for sure.

Is he going to play another Will Smith's track over the office season? Maybe. The closer you are to thinking you're going to beat them up, the closer you are to losing. This one is. goes out to the Sixers. Yeah. So I was actually in a pretty good headspace about this just because...

You sound convincing. They only have four players, so how much wronger could it go? But I think around game four of the NBA finals when I watched Joel and beat Tampa on live national television with Paul George is when it occurred to me that they might not be that good at this. And then I watched a unearthed clip from all of two weeks ago of Paul George talking to Zach Randolph on his podcast and them very, very, like, loosely talking about, like, James Hardin has told everybody that Darry is a snake and that you shouldn't go play for the Sixers

and that guys talk and listen to one another. And I was like, huh, that doesn't sound good. And I just think this is like, it's definitely in play that, like, the Sixers are, like, in play and driving up prices for people, but not actually landing anybody. I want to get a gut check from you guys. You guys convinced about Ricky Connors. so the fourths upside because he might be running the offense next season. No, why not?

I bang this James Hardin thing on the show about as hard as anybody could bang anything. That was this season. That was this season. That's crazy I think about it. It's weird that like the in-season tournament was this season.

Like that feels like it was a hundred. Are we sure? There's still a banner, as you guys know. The James Harden thing is real. Like, as far as, I know from the couple of people that I talk to that I have a pretty good idea. Darry lied to this dude.

He literally told him, don't accept that extension. That's how you're going to get to Philadelphia. We're going to make sure you get paid. Then proceeded not to pay him, literally, and dragged it on over a couple of years. Like, no, no, no, no, we got you. We're going to give you this little extension. And never paid the guy.

And that's just a no-no. That's just something you do not do. The league literally runs on these handshake deals. And Darry-Mori breaking protocol on that is a big no-no. And so I could see, like, somebody to level of Paul George being like, you know what, I'm not casting my lot with them. But, you know, somebody like, O'Gianobie, who's like, you know, the fourth best player on a good team, like, he's going to be like, hell, yeah, if you want to overpay me,

I'll be happy. Yeah. What are you doing? Well, you don't have to fully trust a guy if they put a contract in front of you for $160 million. Well, is this a litmus test for M. Bede and how other guys view him? Because on the one hand, he's a fucking MVP candidate every year. On the other hand, you just got hurt again. Like, could this just be a signal that guys aren't as sure about him? I mean, Paul George wouldn't go to go play with Kauai. It's not like he's like doing like orthopedic drills on dudes before he signs

contracts. Obviously, like, I think ultimately, I have a hard time having grown up in Philadelphia and lived here for 12 years. And I love Philadelphia. But if I, I, I had to choose one of two places to live between the fall and the spring. It would probably be Los Angeles. Yeah, probably. So it's weird that he would be like, my whole life, I've just wanted to play in Southern California. I'm about to go into this new gym. Maybe he's going to feel disrespected by Balmer given the season he just had, which was like relatively productive and healthy.

Yeah. But like, I don't know, man. I mean, also like certain points your team, your organization has certain limitations, right? I think that's part of while LeBron got out of Cleveland that first time. He was just like, bro, like, there's no way I'm talking anybody of consequence to come live in the mistake by the lake. Like, it's not going to happen. And maybe, like, Darryor Morey is that lake in Cleveland for Philly. Like, that might be the case, you know?

And, you know, again, if you're talking about leaving Los Angeles or whatever, like, you know, if the Sixers won the championship, I promise you, they wouldn't spend four nights in a row in Philadelphia either. All right, Waz jeez. I'm just saying, I'm just saying, like. There's an emerging food scene there that's just incredible, man. That's right. You'd be surprised. The Mediterranean is sick. You got to respect it.

I mean, it's only so much spicy ricketone, motherfuckers guy before they want to see something different. I don't know. Like, Paul George saying that in public, I think is meaningful. I think people at that level will definitely care about that. Like, if you have the option of getting your. maximum contract offer from multiple people. And one of those institutions, you know, have a history of like backstabbing people and doing fucked up shit.

And it's like, I'll take my max offer somewhere else. But this is why the sixers are interesting because it's not just Paul George. It's not just Jimmy Butler. It's not just O.G. And it's not just O.G. Anobie. It's all those guys and kind of going down the chain one by one saying, who will take our giant bag of money? And also, someone will take it.

Darrell being Darrell, like, which GM am I going to give a sleepless night by just being like, I'm just going to throw a Seaccom deal down no matter what. And you can match it or you can exceed it or whatever, but I'm just going to mess around. Having said that, I don't know if Brandon Ingram mid-range jumpers probably gets you much closer to Congress finals. Dark. There's no fouls in war. You either die or you don't. Okay, that one's not real.

It's real. That's something I said on a podcast. That's for Clay Thompson. Oh. Is Clay Thompson's NBA career like pretty much over? Or is he going to go play for Detroit or Washington and get his money and get his shots but not play on like a consequential basketball team? Or is there going to be a warriors like we go out together oaths that they keep? It doesn't seem like the warriors are inclined to keep that oath or to offer that oath.

He unfollowed them on the Warriors on Instagram by the way. And I, on the podcast I had to explain it just in the archive feature on Instagram. If he signs, he could just put the picks back up, like, automatically. I still don't understand it. I want to be honest. No, I think it's tough because what other teams can offer him, not only in terms of money, but in terms of just like his institutional value to a franchise, is going to mean more to a young team like the Orlando Magic, like the Detroit Pistons,

than the Warriors. So, and on top of that, frankly, I think it's probably time that the Warriors start picking off part of their dynastic core anyway. It just seems like unfair that it would be Clay who has to pay it. price for that. Totally. But it's like you guys respectfully like Draymond is at the center of the problems over the last two years basically. Let's get rid to him too. But Draymond's been

a much better player. So at the end of the day, it is as awful as he's been as a human being or a teammate, he's produced more. And I think the Warriors are just going to call Clay's bluff because like if you read the tea leaves of people that obviously talk to Clay

in his camp, like the media stuff, it's like well, Clay's not just going to take any money offer. He's definitely got winning. He definitely still wants to win. And it's just like, I don't think so. I think he's going to go out and get the richest contract that he gets offered. And I think that he should. He's won four fucking championships.

And teams like Orlando can win. And frankly, the Warriors aren't winning a ton these days. They're fighting with everybody else. So I am inclined, sap that I am, to say, just like, keep these dudes together as long as you possibly can. But it's going to get real weird and real sad if you do that. So I think we're at the

point where you have to start making hard decisions. I got another one here. We kind of touched a little bit on it, but this is a joke quote. If someone tells you good job, that's just as dangerous as someone telling you, you suck. This one goes to OG and Adobe

because we're just a couple of weeks removed from this dude dragging his completely injured body out into the court to try and give the Knicks a chance of winning, having to get pulled after like four minutes. Oh, gee, you did it for the garden. And then, now it turns out there's reporting that he's not thrilled with the initial

sort of suggestion of what his offer is going to be from the Knicks. I bring this up more to ask, is there an unproven quote-unquote star? So guys, if you're looking at the ranger top 100, 30 to 45. So we're talking about OG. We're talking about Brandon Ingram, who are like, it's time for the max. I am accustomed to and expect to be competent. compensated at the upper level of my game. And teams are like,

eh, you know what? I think we're going to, we're going to go for flexibility. You know, we're going to go, or a year less, or a little bit of money less. And whether this will be a new phenomenon, despite the cap going up, despite the $7 billion a year in TV money. If Ingram gets anything resembling that, it's a disaster. Like, he's the perfect example of a guy who should never get that kind of offer and never get that kind of role. It's tough, though, when you're like a pretty good player who,

who's just miscast as being a number one guy. And with that, you get all kinds of delusions as to what you should make, what kind of player you should be. OG is almost the opposite example where he's been kind of siloed off for so long, standing in the corner. He yearns to breathe free.

He wants to drive. He wants the ball. And he ends up in this kind of situation where he could be the same guy, more or less that he's always been, but in New York, playing for bigger things and better things with a better team.

Or he could try to do more somewhere else. I think the difference between those two guys is that one team got like a whiff of the conference finals like oh we could smell it we could taste it and the pelicans are just perpetually a shit show right and so like if you're the

pelicans how do you even justify to yourself bringing back Brandon Ingram I think because you're a shit show sometimes you talk yourself into things they can still say to themselves like Brandon and Zion only played X amount of games together you know like the pelicans have options

that's the difference like kind of yeah I mean we'll see if they pay the luxury tax but they could turn Ingram into a different type of player because they have so much in terms of pick capital that they can do something else. Or they could just frankly turn it over to their young guards who are barely playing at all. And so I think OG and the Knicks, I think the Knicks do not have that. They don't have that luxury because they already made the trade to get him. Are they just going to let him go?

I find this whole story leading up to this to be kind of just typical Asian negotiating in the public. They're going to pay him, I think, ultimately, because the other. option is letting him go for after giving up R.J. Barrett in a manual clip. I think the Knicks have just a more solid proof of concept, right? And their

superstar is not addicted to like Ben Yays and shit, right? So like the idea that they would go all in with the people that they have makes way more sense than New Orleans being like, let's run it back and see if Brandon Ingram can make a couple

more fade away 19 footers. To me, like, bringing keeping New Orleans the same makes absolutely no sense whereas overpaying O.G. Ananoi, like, you could see the logic in that. You could see, like, all right, we'd feel as good as anybody

that we could, you know, get to the conference finals, potentially play against Boston and take our chances. Whereas New Orleans, like, realistically, what do they think they're going to accomplish next year? I think they always convince themselves that they are the best version

that they showed for like a two-week stretch. in the regular season. They seem to be finally disabusing themselves of that notion. I think they actually will do something significant now. I think they're optimistic about what they have,

but they don't know what the final version of it will be. I think they're more encouraged by Zion than ever before. I don't think the final version will involve Brandon Ingram. No, no, totally. I 100% agree with you.

They need to do something else with him. For sure. Oh, go ahead. I was going to say, even as far as OG, I'm almost reluctant to say overpay him because he's really good and really valuable

and that team can be really good with him. He's always hurt. They should have thought about that before they traded for him, right? I mean, like... And that's always been the case. And he's got a reputation for being a little brittle, being like, all right, if I'm not 100%, I'm not coming back. He was less than 100%.

What he dragged his... Okay, it was whatever it was. Like, I'll give him props for that. It was the... It was a do-or-die game, so he did. He was actually trying to die out. Yeah, he definitely did. Unlike Christops.

Yeah. No, Christop. they try to die, he came back. Took Joe's advice to heart. I just think if the Knicks, man, like what they showed with this guy even remotely healthy on the floor, their best moments in the playoffs,

like it just makes way more sense. In a market that's actually freaking rich, you know, and can pay people, like, that's a no-brainer to me. Whereas Brandon Ingram, like, they should be trying to do something different. Why are we just letting him do Knicks propaganda, like uninterrupted?

Yeah. That's pretty much I had one more that I had really mixed feelings about bringing public this was one from earlier in the season I actually don't have an award

I just wanted to share this quote with you guys I met three girls under the age of 21 who have terminal cancer and I thought I was helping them but they were helping me watching a girl that's dying

smiling that's what it's really all about Joe Muzula said that he said that and I guess in a weird way. I do understand what he's saying, but it's wild that this man just won the NBA finals. Yeah.

Is it the new pop? I think you're right. What about that reads new pop to you? He just has something. No, he has some magic in him. Pop would be like, you know, Greg, what adjustments do you have to make at the third court? He'd be like, the Dobbs decision is to disgrace. Joe Bass is like

just like reading samurai quotes. It's so weird. Pop drinks a ton of wine. Joe apparently just does a ton of Molly or something. Or UFC. Yes. Thank you so much, Chris. Everybody, give up to Chris Ryan.

He'll be back with us for a Q&A. But for now, we're going to bring out our other friend, Jay Kyleman. Almost heaven. West Virginia. Blue Ridge, Marlins. This guy's a fool. You know, it's interesting to think about what they might have said had I not walked out with the Jason Tatum Ruffles back, but I guess we'll never know. He's actually pretty good.

I never had him for. And I'm not from West Virginia. I don't know if that was it a specific song choice there, but we'll round whatever. There's a regionalism. It's all. You didn't really read Appalachian at all. No, no. Nobody really claims us.

So it's cool. We'll move on. Yeah. Well, Kyle, as you, we brought you on around. this time last year because as you know we don't know a fucking thing about the NBA draft actually that's not true I watched maybe four Yukon games so I know

the bare minimum about two Justin very bravely was like I'm gonna watch Yukon this year a self-profess bragging Yukon fan I was like very bold of you after back-to-back titles to invest in your team Justin yes that's right and I like what it's produced for our friendship which is me just saying oh

Yukon got this guy fuck you and then asking you who that guy is bringing us together poser yeah Yeah, totally. But the draft is coming up next week. Good God, that was quick. Why is that happening?

Kyle, what do you think about this draft? Just like big picture thought. Is it as bad as everybody is saying it is? It's bad for some teams for teams like that really needed to hit at the top of the lottery and have no roadmap of what they're doing. If you're a Washington, if you're the Pistons and you really needed a really, really great piece there at the top, you know, if you're one of those teams that's lacking direction and you're trying to go from zero to one, just what are we doing? Yeah, it's brutal. If you're a team that has a young core or

you have some pieces that you kind of understand and you need like a role player that would fit, yeah, but if you're kind of going down the line and you're like, is there an MVP in here? Probably not. The odds, but 2013 defied that. You never know. You never know. Is there an all-MBA player? Probably not. But there might be some all defensive players. There's probably a lot of rotation level, playoff level kind of guys in this draft. So teams that are smart are going to make out like bandits and teams that are dumb are just going to continue being dumb. So I guess that just kind of is evergreen anyway. So wait, like, so you're saying there's no like Julius Randall 13 ball NBA level guy in this draft, you don't think? Well, we don't expect there to be one. You know, optimism isn't high. You can't say for sure. But there's, there's not a lot of like certainty. There are some guys that are kind of, I think that are kind of sliding in the draft for this or that reason that are falling that we can kind of get into. that are kind of value plays for teams. But yeah, there's even those guys that are super talented,

there are question marks about. So there's two days of this shit now? It's so bad. Well, yeah, let's shut it out. Yeah, we got to get Brony James in the promo so that we can make sure, please watch this, you know, please clap. Yeah.

Was, are you ready for the live podcast we're doing on day two of the 20-24 NBA draft? No, but I'm ready for the, the one we do at Summer League. That's right. Which would be the highlight of Brownie's career probably. Okay. No, I'm serious.

Okay. I'm serious. No, seriously. Like, people are saying he's like a Avery Bradley. Oh, yeah. You know, tough defender. Yeah, yeah. Like a scrappy.

He has modeled himself in interviews as that. Yeah. Davian Mitchell. That type. Sure. You know, the Puerto Rican kid from the Pelican kid. Jose Alvarado. Alvarado, yes.

Grand Theft Alvarado. When do those guys ever get as much attention as Bronnie's going to get at Summer League for his first game? Jose Alvarado has a lot of airtime. More than he deserves, I'll say. More than he deserves. His little viral movement was pretty fun last spring

of the PlayStation hide off the screen and then steal the ball. That's Queens, New York's own Jose Alvarado to you, Justin. That's a wholesome story, Justin. Yeah, you got a deal. it's a good it's a good story it's kind of a herb with brawny it's interesting to watch where we started and how we've sort of just like slowly could you bring us through that arc because i've remembered quite vividly the matrix you know there are levels of survival we're willing to accept kind of thing

with the comps we just keep going lower and lower and lower to the point where we're like maybe he'll turn into gp2 maybe he'll turn into gp2 wow repeat that one to yourself uh it it started where we're like okay this guy's going to be a connector who can hit threes and be a playmaker and those things are still possible, but, you know, he didn't shoot the ball super well. It looks great and it's, you know, it visually doesn't, isn't jarring or anything like that. But he, his size, he has a great wingspan. He's like 6-1. I've stood near him and I've probably been a little taller than him. It's stood near him. Yeah. I mean, that's a nice name job. I get to stand near players sometimes. Yeah, Rob, you get on board here. Yeah. So I think people were kind of thinking he'd be sort of like

a Drew Holiday thing, but he's smaller than Drew Holiday. And we've kind of just, transition to where this guy gives you point guard skills, but we're not going to want him to have the ball in his hands all the time. So you think about like, well, what kind of a player is that? It's somebody that's going to need to play next to a team that has like a big playmaker or somebody that's like maybe even a helio type guy. And he's lurking in the dunker spot to give you the extra. But, you know, if you want to be, you know, optimistic and you're looking at like the way the Boston built their, by Boston built their team, there is a place for combo guards. It used to be a nasty word. but if you're a guy that can hit open shots,

guard the ball, switch a little bit. You know, I don't think it's hopeless, but optimism is a little hard to find for writing. But you said he's small, doesn't handle it, and doesn't shoot it. Can you give a current... I didn't handle it. I mean, can you give a current NBA player

who is earning 12 minutes a game, at least with that qualification? I think you're, I think you are talking about the guys who are like the off ball cutters. Like, he's going to have to play in a certain type of a, you know, a certain, and especially with the size, you think about closeouts and things like that. It's like that stuff comes into play, you know.

Yeah. He's got a 40-inch vert, though. Well, this is the thing. The guys who do fit that bill to some extent are like the Amman Thompson types who are bigger than Brony and like stand out athletes. Six-seven six. Huge difference. Huge difference as far as that goes. Like, that's where he's behind the eight ball is.

Yes, he may be an elite athlete, but even that difference in size is monumental. So I want to talk about four teams that we have identified as the most intriguing teams to go into the draft, primarily because there's only so much draft actual prospect analysis, so what we have on the set for you guys. I think we've got to start at number one, which is the Atlanta Hawks who somehow got the number one overall pick here. Here's the question that I have written down, and something that I think a lot of people are talking about now.

Are the Hawks, Kyle, you think a team that should be considering trading down? Because pretty much every draft, it seems like it's a bad idea. to trade back out of a higher pick. I remember the Kings doing that, getting Papa Janus, and then I think it was Justin Jackson. Yeah, and giving up. Did that release like a year later?

Yeah. Yeah. But does it make sense in this type of draft where there maybe isn't like a clear cut top five, but there's a lot of guys and you might just be looking for more bites at the apple as opposed to a higher one? I mean, there's not a player here that,

we were talking about this on the draft show earlier, that like this this draft, there is no kind of leverageable thing that is going to help you improve your team immediately. Like, and if you're Atlanta, especially the situation that they're in where they're thinking like, okay, we've built this team around Trey, we're probably not going to pivot to Deontay Murray season, Deonti Murray hour. So, I mean, if you like a Donovan Klingan, who is like a big for Yukon, who I think is going to be an above average anchor from day one in the league, it's just a matter of can he stay healthy. he's just a big immovable, unavoidable object out there. I can't believe he might go one. That's incredible to me because he was awesome. Are you wishcasting him going number one?

Not really because I've seen what happens to Hashim the beat, for instance, going to when he never should have gone that high. But the expectation doesn't help. If you're going one, people are going to expect you to be a front line all NBA sort of guy. I will say this as far as the Atlanta moving down part. A lot of the chatter you hear right now is a lot of teams wanting to move down. calling other teams who are also trying to move down. And that's the kind of thing that leading up to the draft is hard to execute, but you get there on draft night.

And it's like maybe the one guy you actually do like is still there and you can talk yourself into it. But leading up to the draft, I don't think anybody's going to shuffle around that much. Did you just hear this? Rob just became an information guy. That's what I'm here for. This is a major break.

I'm proud of you. I'm a broker. You put me out on the road. I'm going to get the scuttle butt. Reporter Rob. I love this. Rob Wode Janous. No one is.

saying that. What do you think about the Hawks was just kind of going forward here? Do you think they need to get rid of one of these point guards, two of them? And now does that play until like their overall draft strategy? I think they need to get rid of Trey, honestly. Who wants Trey at this point? That's the question. Where do you think who's going to, who's going to pony up and say this is our guy? He's misunderstood.

The San Antonio Spurs to the courtesy phone? I honestly think the Lakers make the most sense. The Lakers? How do you guys feel about that? Trey Young Los Angeles Laker. I see a thumbs down in the darkness and a lot of booze. How much worse than Dilo could he be? Give me a break.

That's probably the argument. Yeah, for sure. This is crazy. Well, I just think if they maintain enough defensive guys. Like, can you swing a trade trade? Is his value so low that you could do it with mostly picks and contracts? And then swing Reeves into someone who's more of a three and D type closer to the KCP model. And then you could almost like lean on trade to be your Kyrie Irving type, hope that LeBron

and God forbid age 40 can still give you what he did this postseason. AD was fucking incredible this season probably had his best season plus post season like his entire career. So I'm still bullish on the pairing of LeBron and AD plus another guy, as long as you

maintain enough behind them. I think Trey actually fits in a basketball sense with Bronin AD and what they're trying to do because the guy can actually shoot it and handle it. He can make pull-ups off a pick and roll, all of that stuff. The reason why I say though, I think Tray Young in a vacuum is a very good player.

But in Atlanta, they made him the freaking king of the franchise. And so he's never going to do anything differently. Like ownership, they would have to do it about face about how they treated the guy the entire town. So I think he needs to change the scenery. And if he goes to L.A., like he's going to have to fall in line with the shit LeBron tells him to. Right? And that's why I think that would make a lot of sense. and I think Atlanta should just be trying to do something new, do something different.

The trade thing didn't work out. Like you had your flu playoff run. You swung a deal for Murray, which was, look, Tray has all these weaknesses. We're going to trade for a guy who sort of plugs up those holes. It didn't work. They gave up real shit to get Murray in there. I was telling to just cut bait and do something different. Is there any guy you like for them in the draft if they stick at one?

I mean, fitting with what they have right now, we've talked about how Sarr is an interesting. I don't know if you guys know who Alex Sarr is. It's Olivier Sars brother, if that's a nice reference. That'll help. You know, 7-1, he's very, very fluid. I've talked about how he moves a lot, kind of like Jonathan Isaac. But the point I've kept making is like, okay, let's say he's Jonathan Isaac, healthy. Even Jonathan Isaac caused spatial issues for Orlando.

It's incredible a defender as he is. So you think about the way a Derek lively popped in the scenario that he was in with like a real lob thrower, a real pick and roll threat. Would Saar have a similar thing? I just don't, that would all just assume that you're moving forward with Trey. So I like the idea of clinging with them. I wouldn't be surprised if they move off of the pick just because, you know, maybe they can leverage that tray with a team who's, you know, I feel like this draft is sort of like a third. It's like a fulcrum for other things for teams to make moves rather than just the draft. being the major focus itself.

Okay, so kind of the flip side of this with OKC, as the number 12 pick in the draft, we're hearing them rumored, maybe they do the balloon payment route and free agency, Hartenstein, some other guys, short deals in order to fill up the cap space until they have to go and pay

the guys that they already drafted. Obviously, all you guys know, those guys, Jalen William, etc. But do you think it would make more sense? And I guess they could also do this in conjunction with that to trade up, basically do what they did with Kays and Wallace and say

our draft capital actually affords us an opportunity to just go get what we want. It's actually not to swing a star trade. We're just going to have our preference and make sure we get it. Do you think that they should do in this draft? I'm sure Tyler is out there just mouthing trying to convince me the right thing

to say about this. But I personally think the Thunder, I don't expect them to add another guy to, you can't have, your whole team can't be on the same developmental timeline. And I don't think that they're going to find their missing starter in the top 10 of this draft based on the types of needs that they have.

So if I'm the Thunder, I'm not, I'm not looking for that. I expect them to make some other kind of move. Maybe it'll be to get a player. I think you need to get somebody that is more season, whether that's like a player in the mid-30s, I don't know. But like, I just don't expect their missing piece to be somebody that's going to be one of the gang who's like, you know, playing the same video games, listening the same music. I don't think it's going to be that type of thing.

not going to be Gordon Hayward, it turns out. No, definitively not. But I think that's how you get into the Ananoby rumors, and he's been linked to O'KC in the same way the Hardinstein has. Their solution to getting punked on the boards doesn't have to be a big. It could be a really good rebounding three, four. I've been trying to trade a Kongwu there.

That's what we were talking about, Atlanta. I was like, if Atlanta's trying to pivot, you think you could squeeze. If we're trying to pivot and start a new era, and we need a lot of picks, and we know, who has those? Who needs this? We have this guy that, you know, I just think that's one guy that I've had my eye on as somebody that maybe I would go after if I were there.

And he's on a good deal, too. I think the question is, was like, do you put any stock in how they built previously where it's like mostly young guys who grew up together? Obviously, they went and swung Jeff Green into Perk and had mixed results. So maybe they'd follow that same blueprint. But do you think it's like it's good to have all these guys on the same timeline? Because you've seen the results of like the chemistry, the barking and all that shit is much. that actually has an impact on the actual product. I just don't think your blueprint can be drafting for three Hall of Famers in a row, right? At a certain point, you've got to identify a node quantity and swing a trade for the guy. And so I'm with Kyle on that. I think they should be rounding up these picks

to get a proven commodity, right? To get a Drew holiday, to get a veteran who you can count on what he's actually going to deliver rather than be like, oh, we're so smart at picking Poku, we'll just draft again. Like, I think that's a crapshoot to me. That's just lottery tickets to me. I think they should be aggregated those picks to get real players,

but I notoriously hate young people. So, like, I'm always here for go get a proven actual NBA player and move on. Poku's Euro League mixtape years from now is going to be incredible. I'm just calling that right now. It's going to be something. So I think what I heard from you is sneaky dress. Ramon spot for them. As sensitive as they are about the way that you're a...

Traymond in the prairie. Oh, my God. Around young people again. I would pitch the higher up so I'm making me the OKC Beat Rider for that. I'd want to be there every fucking day. I did hear that quiet affirmation of your outline, though, Justin, that they need to trade for a Drew Holiday type. That's right.

That's all that matters. Well done. Next team I have here, San Antonio, picks number four and number eight. I think this question is obvious. How the fuck do you build around probably the best prospect of all time? I think this is one of the most interesting things

in the whole draft because Wimby, if you go down, whenever we were doing our rookie reports, this is just sort of a reflection of who he is as a person. You know how you go on NBA.com and they have like the stats. And then there's like a,

there's a horizontal row of thumbnails of his press conferences. And every single thumbnail was Wimby looking like death. He just wanted to die, looked like an extra from like a Smith's music video or something. Like, so he, I think that what they need to do in terms of the basketball sense, if you go down and you're trying to like figure out what San Antonio needs to do,

I don't think the analytics are going to reflect it really on a whole because, A, they changed the way. They punted Zach Collins into the sun. Poor guy. He's gone. And he's on the team, not involved in what they're doing anymore. That did not work.

Force about flow. Yeah. And then, Wimby just, I always talk about like adaptive. It's just being smart. basically. It's a it's a high-falutant way of saying smart. I mean, he just caught on to the NBA game and you saw him learn very quickly and they figured out like, hey, maybe not when he's driving into traffic and we have 10 guys, you know, lunging at him to try to strip the ball. If we give him some space, incredible things are going to happen. So I think what you need to do that, obviously,

shooters. And I think that you need to find a way to like get him easy baskets. Because if you saw throughout the season, this team had more potential assists. They pass the ball fine. They just don't convert. then they were number one in the league and potential assist. So I think they need shooting. I think they need somebody that can throw the freaking ball over the top to Wimby for the love of God, make his life easier in some way. And I think those are the two things that they're after, just from the outset. Rob, what would you, if you had to conjure up a type of player?

Yeah. What are you looking to put next to Wimby? Yeah. Yeah. Is that on it? Well, we'll see. Yeah, right. I do think you need organization.

To what you're talking about, all those discrete skills, they absolutely do need. They're just pretty limited in terms of the actual talent on the roster right now. But they need someone who can put people in the right places,

who can actually throw the kinds of passes that Kyle's talking about, get the low-hanging fruit that's going to make you into a credible team very quickly, but also is going to accelerate your timeline when you do get whoever

the second star on the team is. And so the guys you trade for don't have to be stars in waiting. They can be guys who are just going to make you accelerate that much when you do get those stars. Yeah, it's almost like what Houston did this year when they went out and got Fred Van Vlee.

Yeah, the Fred Van Vlee or like a Mike Conley type, like those kinds of players. Just somebody with some level of organization because the Spurs offense was the best. It was just nasty. And all of the people they were trotting out at point guard and facilitating, it just looked ridiculous. But Webby is, like Kyle said, his mind for offensive basketball is already at a super high level in terms of of dissected defenses and how they want to guard him. And you get somebody of a high quality who also has that understanding. The two of them can do it.

He can't do it by itself, though. Can you find that guy in this draft, like an organizer type? Does that Reed Shepard? You know, I think that they have a couple options that are interesting here. I think that, like, if you're looking for somebody that can make those passes, absolutely my boy, Reed Shepard is like the best over-the-top transition pass from the draft. He's one of the best shooting prospects that we've seen in a long time. Brian went on and on about that.

He was absolutely right. That, like, Reed can catch it every which way. He doesn't have to dip. It's super fast. It's going in. The question about him is, is he a self-creator. So I think you need somebody that can, and he has crazy defensive hands. So I think that under the shadow of Wimby's cover, I think that Shepard would be in a good spot.

The other thing, the other option that I think that is interesting is they have a now or later kind of money situation where they've got Kelden, they've got Vassel, they've got, you know, these guys that are younger. It's Sohan. They could go and spring for a Stefan Castle who would be cheaper. and then say like, okay, well, we can maybe, I think that it's very possible that Castle could be better than Kelton Johnson. So you just think, okay, well, we'll do this now. And maybe we can trade for something, package that and go get a player that you all are talking about. So your suggestion almost like usher in a next generation after the first one kind of comes up with their contract. What's nailed down if you're San Antonio? I don't know. Because like they had some of like the worst pick and roll decision makers of like their young guys are learning on the job. You give them some grace.

I don't know that they're going to get to a level that's going to be super little. But, like, you know, Wimby's handle the ball a lot, too, so it may not matter as much. They'll be secondary. Yeah, we walked right by Justin called Wembe the best prospect maybe of all time, and none of us blinked at it. Who's even in the running?

Was who are usually the comparing? Satchel Paige. Hank Aaron. Ty Cobb. You know, those guys, Hashim to beat. No, not so much. But yeah, no, I was definitely a skeptic coming into the season. Yes, you were. I remember. It just month by month, it just got dumber

and dumber. And I was just like, oh, God. I got to walk this shit back to. And so I have. You had a good night that first night of Summer League where he took a bunch of Oh, it was great. I was taking a victory last. Scoot looked better than in the times. Yeah, that was a wild time.

I was like, it's over. Send him back to France. And then, though, he quickly got rid of that. I think, oh, I thought Liz was telling itself. It's really become one of the rare pleasures of this job watching you get to gloat. On the nights where, like, the Celtics get blown out. The one game where Victor misses shots. Yeah.

I'm just, I'm living. I'm thriving. I think Wimby legitimately, I don't think this is controversial at all. I think he has a legitimate chance to break the MVP record, like the youngest winner. I think he's coming. I think next year he could, he was incredible defensively this year. I think he's, it's going to be a problem. Like, he's a real, real force in both directions.

I mean, in it's second and defensive player of the year ranking, right? In terms of the final voting, nuts. It's pretty good. Pretty good. Also have the Hawks future picks, which if they decide to go, younger. I wonder if their next like Wemby co-pilot comes from that. That'll be interesting.

Good. Last team on the list here, the Los Angeles Lakers. Yeah, baby. Number 17 in the draft. And I'm curious, Kyle. Can you find like a farther along I won't say NBA ready because prospects typically aren't actually NBA ready, but

like thereabouts at that point in the draft. Like what does the middle of the draft look like for the Lakers and other teams? There are some guys that I think would work for them. I think you just, the Lakers just need to really improve their bench. Rob and I were talking about this on a nice walk to tacos earlier, where it was like, if you look back over that series, it's like, okay, next year they didn't get just demolished,

even though they lost in five. It was sort of, it was, you know, they're not as far away as it, as you would think. And I'm just thinking, how do you improve your bench? Where do you go and get guys that are going to be able to just pick up, put up points immediately? I think there are some interesting, like, value plays. I was talking about star power. there's a couple guys that I wonder if I could package together 17

with something else to move up in the 11-12, maybe even 10 range. Rob Dillingham, I think, would be an amazing Lakers bet. Where did he go to college? Yeah, it's so funny you say that. Have you seen Rob Dillingham? We're backstage. I was so Chris, I was like, this is your guy.

I was like, he's like Malik Monk mixed with like, he's a wild man, but he's so, so crazy talented. And you're going to observe this as you guys start to dig into the stuff or if you're ahead already, you probably know this. But like, we have this weird thing going on where the most talented handler in the draft, the most talented shock creator in the draft, the most dynamic score in the draft, one of the most creative finishers in the draft, all four of those are Rob Dillingham. And yet, and I think he's every bit as talented.

I've said this over and again, he's just as talented as a Darius Garland. He's that kind of skill set. He's electric. He can pass the ball off the dribble. And yet people just aren't sure about him. I think you're going to see a team like the Lakers or something. somebody like that take a chance on him because it'll be worth it because he's his star upside is crazy. He's very small. That's kind of a thing. But yeah, to answer your question, there are some like,

there are some like older players that like a T.J. Shannon, uh, parenthesis, problematic. Go read about that one. Uh, I mean, he's a guy that can put points up in a hurry. Um, there's Baylor Shireman's a guy that could score the ball, but I don't know if that's a reach for him at that spot. Uh, I love, Kevin McCuller. That's another one from Kansas. So there's, there are some options, but, uh, Yeah, Isaiah Collier is mocked there right now. If Collier became very, very interested in defense and took some pressure off of his inefficient offensive stuff, I think he could be a great player for a long time. But if he's going to be a Tariq Evans model for his life, it's going to be a rough, rough ride.

Very true, very true. Ronnie suffered at the hands of that too. He also didn't help it. That's what we're wrong for him. I think the question overall, though, is should the Lakers be dressed? drafting this player and kind of feeding into this, at the very least, like, what they're saying publicly is they want to get more in the developmental

business or start to build the young core so that maybe AD has more of a longer runway, or should we just trading this for a fucking star? They've decided they want to have a coach for more than a season and change. This is a big moment for them, a long-term outlook. You got to trade the pick if it means

good players. I just don't see why they need one of these damn kids from college on the team. Is Trey that guy? Like, where does the line start for you. Like, is it Trey? Would it have to be like a Paul George type? Not that the clippers and the Lakers would ever engage in a sign and trade?

I would prefer like two to three good role players over any of those guys, to be honest with you. I think the issue that you run into with the Lakers is that LeBron has kind of hit his limit in some ways in terms of what he can do at this age. I think we saw it especially in the playoffs when he was reaching for that gear that we're all used to

seeing it wasn't quite there. And so you have some concerns about that, but I just don't think they're going to get solved. And so if that's kind of off the table and I mostly think it is, I would rather just have a better supported cast. I would rather have the ability to take weight off of him through other means than swing and miss at Paul George again. I'm thinking about me if I'm the Lakers.

I'm just like LeBron may be here, maybe not. If we can get a player that's going to be, we'll just sit him to the side and maybe he can be something that helps us move in a new era. I wouldn't be moving heaven and earth to try to support that, to upgrade that. I'd be thinking about myself, about the Lakers long term. All right. Well, check out, Kyle.

You're probably doing draft stuff for the ringer this week, next week. I assume so. Yes. Okay. Well, if Kyle does do draft stuff, check him out. We're going to bring out Chris for one last segment because we're going to do some Q&A. Y'all had some crazy-ass questions, boy. I was like, what in the...

I edited the questions. Well, you're a skilled editor, as everyone knows. I still have some skills. this is my favorite one NBA games are too loud there should be more basketball purist nights what kinds of themed events should the NBA force teams to implement

I love this just the other night I was like completely like moved to tears by a video of Bob Costas introducing the 98 NBA finals that's the electric shit and I was just like this is riveting And I think my suggestion, this isn't for arenas, although arenas are too loud. I want ESPN2 to be ESPN analog, where it's just the game feed, a play-by-play guy,

do you only know what a guy is scored when he's at a free throw line, and the score comes up like every other possession? Yeah. And otherwise, it's just basketball. This happened during one of the playoff games. There was a problem with the audio, and it was just the game feed. Yeah. It's like, this fucking rips. Do we actually even need play-by-play in, like, color analysts?

Are you hearing, like, cavernous, like, reverb and, like, sneaker squeaks kind of thing? You're just like here in the crowd. It almost makes you feel like you're at the game when you're on your couch. That's what I want. I just want to know what was things of the phrase basketball purists tonight. That's all I want to know. Like, my mind goes to, like, does everybody bring a bag because they love bags so much? Like, my mind goes to theme nights, but I don't know.

I'm somebody who will probably play a podcast or music, basically. every single NBA broadcast, honestly, until there's like three minutes left where I feel like I need to know what's actually happening on the court. So, like, I don't want to fire people from their jobs in the media, but yeah, I don't need that shit.

Well, I think Chris, they're bad. You had this idea when we were talking in-season tournament earlier in the season where it's like, what about just alternate, like, sites for some of these games? So, like, in preseason, for instance, like the Lakers go down to Ontario, they play on a smaller court.

It's a more intimate setting. Can we do something like that? Like you know in college, Kyle, where they had those games on the aircraft carriers, let's fucking put LeBron. They're all horrible. All of them are horrible.

I just want different backdrops. It's like we're in a street fighter. Yeah, this is. The two choices are Ontario Canada. Or an Air Force carrier. Fucking battleship. Yeah. What about like a street fighter?

That's literally what I was thinking of was street fighter. Yeah. We went a big cage, you know. DeAngelo Russell crawls down the cage and onto the court. Like, I'm down for that. Yeah, for sure.

Draymond throws someone into a bunch of trash cans. It's like, yeah, Mario Strikers. Well, for all the second stream stuff that they do, I do wish there was like a third stream that was just like, Derek White's got the ball. He's gone up to the three point line passes off to Drew Holiday. And that's like all we got. That I don't need anything else.

Show your age, Chris. All right. The Paris Olympics will have men's three on three basketball. The USA team is headlined by Jimmer for, dead. That's right. If you could pick any three U.S. players to represent the men's three on three team, who would they be?

Someone said Brunson. It's not bad. I'm trying to. I don't say Jason Taylor's not a bad pick. Well, you have to score in three and three. Jordan Clarkson. Do you go,

do you go like three? Does the dream of the 2005 Hawks live and you just get like three, six, nine guys out there? Is that the move? I think they could win like that for sure. I think it's like who plays the best. with a lot of space, right? Yes, that's a great point.

I think you'd be like, Steph, and you'd need, like, pick and roll, like, concepts. You need, like, Steph, you need the best lob catcher ever, Anthony Davis, and then you'd need, uh, now I'm just saying you'd need a lob thread. I mean, he'd be unstoppable.

He'd hit the occasional three, and then you'd pick your wing. It'd be somebody that can handle the ball, like 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7. I just want gunners. I want fucking Malik Monk. I want Jordan Poole. I want Jordan Clarkson. I want IceCube just being the general manager

for this entire endeavor Cameron Brink who I think is going into the women's go What's that? It's like Catino Let's go full big three with this thing

Let's bring it all the alumni That's great Will Luca Donchage retire a Maverick? Pretty sure a serial killer wrote this by the way I don't know if we can get the cops Yeah

And is he already the greatest Maverick of all time So the second one is absolutely not Dirk's got the ring How dare you? I think both of those questions are no. I just think outside of like a select few, I could see like Tatum say, you know,

retiring with the Celtics, right? But outside of that, there's not a player, maybe Yokic as well. I could see him straight up retiring. Yeah, straight up. Like 12 years is like, all right, I'm out of here. But Luca, I think, will eventually be out of there someday. Like, there's so much smoke around Luca.

Especially when you hear about, well, the bavs are always in panic mode. They always got to feel. It's just like, why would they feel that way if there was an indication like, yo, guys, I don't have to be here. And I would love to do something different if I don't fix this shit. So I think Luca will definitely play for another team. And I've heard people say the Lakers want to get them. So y'all do with that, which I want.

Yeah, the will he retire question is kind of similar to me to like, can this guy win a title as a number one option? The answer is almost always no. There's a very, very slight group of people who actually do that. And yeah, I really don't see him staying there for the entirety of his career. Well, we have seen more recently guys stay. Janus being the prime example of that. So far.

So far. But I also think those teams were proactive about getting more superstars to put around him. And as good as the Mavs did, a good of a job as they did this trade deadline. Like, who is the next star for the next wave for Luca? Is it lively? I don't know if he's ever going to get to that sort of ceiling. Kyrie is going to be probably 34, 35 by the time that Lucas. contract comes up. So I think the Mavs have probably more of a defined window. I don't want to be

a killjoy because they did so good this year. But like, it's probably more of a defined window than people. But what about the black Israel like? He's not the superstar. Lucas superstar teammate. I'm afraid to ask who you're talking about. Is Kyrie Irvin not the superstar team? One of the, one of the big thing too, the big things too is that like we have yet to see the free agency like seismic free agency move that has involved superstar European players. If I'm not. mistaken. And we just yet, we've yet to cross that line. Like, I've always kind of wondered it'd be really interesting if like Janus and Luca Turk teamed up or, you know, we just, I'm curious to see if we ever see that actually happen. Yeah. But the other part of that, I mean, Dirk has said

repeatedly the Luca is a better player than him already for whatever that's worth. And he's like shattering every single record in Maverick's history. So I think it, it may be more of a matter of time. And I say that as someone who's probably defended Dirk as ardently as anybody in the NBA media. Three-party here that I'm going to reverse. the order of the questions to segue off of Luca here. So one is an over-under. Luca rings 1.5.

I'm smashing the under. Because look at the last five years of the NBA. Yeah. This is hard to get multiple. And I don't, I, watching this playoffs for as dazzling as Luca was, I did not come out of there being like, that dude is an Iron Man.

You know, so like, I can see Luca missing a season. I can see Luca getting hurt in a playoffs. Like, it was a great run. But that's just my feeling. What about you? I think you're right. Yeah.

And I think his model is just really hard too. I mean, what do you all think about like the, like offensively? I feel like he's going to have to have some kind of big shift and how he plays. I mean, I know Kyrie was an adjustment. But yeah, I would go under on it. That's kind of where I'm on. Number of Wendy MVP's 1.5. I feel over.

Yeah. It's way over. It feels like over. Way over. Yeah, we're talking Jordan numbers here. I mean, it feels irresponsible, but it feels so. Right. I don't know what to tell you. I think the only thing that could derail the, I think there's nothing derailing the over, honestly.

I think he'll get two MVP's for sure. But Jordan, like, he has to not break his leg, not mess up his foot, not mess up his knee, not, you know, be French. Like, you got to do all that. French. Sorry. Sorry. I just, I'm a bad, man. How good do the Spurs have to get before he wins an MVP? I think next year he'll be in consideration if they're even a.

I don't, I think there will be at least the playing team. They're going to be bad next year. Let's put a win total. 40, 50 wins. I mean, like, how, what's the total? What's it got to be? I heard that was Isaiah, clearly. I could hear Isaiah back there, our producer.

Yeah, that's probably up and much. Do you think the Spurs can win 50 games next year? No, I'm saying what does the number have to be? Like, like, well, how soon do we? No, I want to get pushed Justin on. Does he think the Spurs are going to win 50 games? I would like an answer on that. Webby was his defensive player of the year

this year, too. What was OKC last year? Was it like 45, 46, something like that? No, no, it was closer to 42. They're closer to 400. I think we're in like the 45 to higher range. I do think he could have the most compelling case ever for like an eighth-seated team. Yeah. In terms of having an actual shot to win MVP.

There you go. That's true. And he was a mistake. Let me do this. This is the last one. This one seems to sum up. kind of a little bit of where we're going here tonight. This is a, this was a shocking question, though. Can we admit that the Mavs had no business in this series?

Had the nuggets not fallen asleep at the wheel, we would have gotten best on best thoughts. I, this is how basketball works. They had, they had a healthy Denver team. Aziz had a day. Fucking Zaze's back there.

I mean, it's disgusting. I think the nuggets, if they had beaten the Timberwolves, like we would have had a conversation. They didn't. And then the Mavs beat the Timberwolves, and that's how it works in the NBA.

But we didn't, did we? Look, fuck you. Anyway, like, to me, I think the NBA is becoming a little bit closer to football in the sense that, like, the matchups actually, like, do matter, right? Which football are you talking about?

Not the beautiful game. I'm talking about American football. We're like, you know, if you have a run-heavy attack and you're playing a team that has an incredible run divis, and they're going to fuck you up, right? And they might run into a team

that can exploit them via the past. And that's just how the cookie crumbles in terms of matchups. I don't know how you could watch them beat all of these teams who were reasonably healthy, who were show themselves to be a very high quality all season and say they had no business

being in the finals. That doesn't make any sense to me. I also love it. Like, maybe OKC could have used one or two or five extra large people in order to go toe to toe with some of the bigger teams. But there really was kind of a coin flip sort of thing where it's like this small ball team

that attacks from the perimeter has to go against this big ball team and this team shoots a bunch of threes, but we're going to pound you inside with this team. There's much more variety, which we haven't had a lot of in recent years. All that's true. And I also part of me kind of thinks at this point the Celtics might have just beaten everybody.

I think if the wolves had gotten there, I think they would have gotten smoked. Kyle's been on all season about the fact that the Celtics are really like a more evolved version of the Thunder in a lot of ways. Thanks, Rob. A more advanced version of that formula. I think they would have beaten them.

Denver is clearly the biggest wildcard just because of the matchup question. But they looked incredible even when they don't play that well. I will never say that shit. Okay, the Nuggets not getting to the finals is the new perk. We undefeated with perk in the lineup. Sorry, I'm taking that till I die. Fuck that. All right.

Why don't we wrap it there? Everyone give it up to Chris Ryan and Jake Hyleman. we love these guys. Thanks for joining us tonight. Thank you to our producers who have been with us all season. Isaiah Blakely, Ben Cruz, Eddie O'Campo. Thank you to Elizabeth Firman for helping this out and her crew. Thank you to you guys for joining us.

We really appreciate it. If you want to join us, we're doing like meet and greet in the lobby pictures and all that. We will talk to you next time. Thanks for coming up.