The Ringer NBA Show - 'Group Chat' — Lonzo Gets Baptized, CP3 Makes a Movie, and the Sixers Must Learn to Share (Ep. 147)

Episode Date: October 20, 2017

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are joined by Haley O’Shaughnessy to chat about the first Clippers-Lakers matchup of the season (1:10), Chris Paul's timely released short film (5:38), and the Rockets' impressive bout with the Warriors (10:00). Then they discuss rookies' updated stock values (16:40), speculate on this season's MVP prospects (34:15), and discuss the talent gap between some top and bottom tier teams (38:15). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Showtime's White Famous. White Famous is a new Showtime original comedy series about trying to make it in Hollywood, starring S&L Vet J. Farrow as Floyd Mooney, a comedian whose career is about to blow up, but he's not sure he's ready for all that. Can he make it without losing his soul? White Famous is executive produced by Academy Award winner Jamie Fox, and the creator of Californication Tom Capinos. The show is based on Jamie Fox's real-life experience,

and also stars Jacob Ming Trent M. Moore. You can watch the hilarious season premiere right now for free on YouTube. Download the Showtime app now to start your free child. Catch new episodes Sundays at 10 p.m. only on Show. And welcome to The Ringer NBA show. This is group chat, our informal conversation among L.A. staffers at the Ringer H.Q. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm joined, as always, by Justin Varyer.

Hi, friends. And Haley O'Shaughnessy. Hello. Hello. Hello. What a day to be at Los Angelino. You know? A lot of stuff happening last night.

We're going to get to this Clippers, Lakers game, which was actually not super interesting as a game. It was more interesting as a sequel to Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, where Lonzo Ball got in with the Master Blaster, which is Patrick Beverly. Haley's looking at me because she's never seen Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. No, I have not. Patrick Beverly basically introduced, he baptized Lonzo last night. It was almost as if the point guards in the NBA have this group chat going. Yes.

And Pat Beverly was the first one up to take his, like, his hacks on Lonzo. Yeah. And it was. Yeah, but he was also probably the one, like, texting the most in that group. Right. Like, the most of the truth. I haven't heard from you in a while, but just FYI, like, definitely planning on going at Lonzo. The one play where he just kind of bumped into him.

Yeah. Like, there was no need for that. He just went there and just wanted to make his presence. It was a quote unquote, Lakers home game, but they both played Staples, obviously. He just took him on, like, for 94 feet. He even said that. He was just like, I was just going to guard. him for 94 feet. He was not going to have one single

easy dribble. And it was such an interesting clash of personalities because if there is one thing in the Lonzo book, it's that he seems like, albeit Kyle Kuzma half-court shot competitions aside, he's a somewhat laid-back personality, right? Right, right. I think that's what people forget a lot

about him. Like, his dad is the bullhorn, but he's really just like the third guy in the back, not saying anything. And even like physically, he looked really small. A lot of the Lakers just look tiny. Like, their starting lineup almost looked like a middle school team where you have that really big guy at center who just sits there and catches lobs and whatever.

No, even Ingram, who's like supposedly bulked up, I'm like, really? Like, have you? Because you still look really, really small. Yeah, they look like they could fit in the bucks carry-on luggage, you know? I saw one funny thing last night, which I guess is like you don't really get a lot of bodyguard stuff going on in the NBA anymore, but they were, like, I think that it was interesting that Pat Bev was like harassing Lonzo, like, all night long. And then he acted like he was doing him a favor.

He was like, I'm not doing this because I have some personal vendetta. This is like going to help you later on. But he actually articulated, you know, you watch stuff and you're just like, this is just first take bullshit. Like, this isn't real. But he was like, LeVar talks a lot of trash and his son has to pay the bill. Like, that was wild that you said that. Yeah. Yeah.

He said, I told him due to all the riffraff his dad brings, he's going to get a lot of people coming at him and he has to be ready for that. So he really thinks like, hey, look, I'm doing you a favor. this is nothing personal, but it's going to come at you all season. I mean, Patrick Beverly is the guy that went out at Russell Westbrook. Yes. So I think we should have expected him to just go right at Lanzo. It definitely brings, you know, it was cool to see the Clippers have like that ferocity, which I think that they often, you know, they did over the CP3 era,

but often that ferocity was pointed inwards. Right, right. And other teammates or Vinie Del Negris or Doc Rivers or, you know, like DeAndre and missing foul shots. But this time it was, you know, they had. a real attitude and it was kind of like, I don't think that it can last in terms of the overall team health, but it was pretty fun to watch the rooster out there and Milosh and Blake look good. You know, they just looked like they were in a completely different universe in the Lakers and I feel really stupid for suggesting the Lakers would make a run at the playoffs this year.

Did you do that? Yes, NBA Ringer-Paloosa, you can watch videos on the Ringer.com. I stand by my work. There are receipts. I mean, yeah, the Clippers just like they have veteran guys. We forget that when we talk a lot about like these hyped guys coming in. a lot of new phases going to other teams. But Blake Griffin is a freaking all-star.

And, like, DeAndregey Jordan is a large man. And, like, that alone is just enough to, like, combat, like, you were saying, Brandon Ingram just, like, trying to create space for himself. We also haven't seen Doc Rivers coach a legitimate second unit in, like, how long has it? Like, five years? He hasn't had a second unit in a while. By choice, obviously, because he's the GM. Yes.

But I haven't seen him be like, oh, I'm going to mix a match. I'm going to put this guy in now. I'm going to let this, like, this offense. We're going to change gears. Blake's going to run the offense. Blake's going to go on the block, but DeAndre. and DeAndre out. It was just like, man, like, you know, one game, but it's going to be like, you're not going to get the same old clippers this year. Right. But even, like you said,

like their intensity on the court, did any locker room change more in terms of like, now they're all like, okay, let's go all in and like play these games super aggressively. Whereas before it was like Chris Paul getting fed up with everybody not playing super aggressively or Chris Paul getting fed up with DJ or getting fed up with Blake or whoever. Or fed up with his hamstrings. Awesome. Yeah. Let's talk about Chris Paul. Because in a, what you could consider a troll move, a little bit last night before Consider a troll move. That was definitely

100% a troll move. I mean specifically the release time. They could have put this out at any point over the last three weeks probably. And they chose to put it out right before the Clippers play the Lakers. Chris Paul released a short film, a documentary, I don't know, on ESPN.

Like a mini doc. That basically was his version of the decision, I guess. But the decision, rather than talking to Jim Gray, he was talking to Jay-Z's longtime engineer young guru. Great interview. Young guru is a very, very good talker. With Jayze, sipping champagne and eating peanuts.

Yes. I thought those were wings at first, and then I was very disappointed when I found other peanuts. And no ID, the producer. And Chris Paul just hanging out in a studio, really just like going through all of his decision making of like whether he's going to, and it's set before,

and it was filmed before he made his decision. But it's this black and white handheld footage. And it's just CP3 being like, you know, like my family loves it here in L.A. My brother lives here. I get to see you guys Yeah A lot of camera time for his brother too

Yes His brother was hanging A lot of mentions of his brother I'm just like he's your brother Like I'm sure he's fine with whatever you decide You know like He's gonna go with you regardless Yeah it's not like he's gonna like

I'm staying in L.A. Chris Clippers strong And then you know He goes through all these All these decisions but like very candid About More or less saying that the clippers

Were not serious about challenging the warriors Their culture was bad Yeah and that the culture was bad He was even like When I was in New Orleans everyone would come hang out together and when I asked them here they were like do I have to go which was very

revealing but also like you know okay you left the team maybe you didn't have to put that in the documentary right and that's exactly what doctor nobody's blaming you for leaving the team obviously they weren't doing anything every postseason it was super mediocre for a team that had that much talent nobody's like oh we shouldn't have gone

this is not the decision he also got lucky because there was a thousand of the things that happened from when he got traded to Houston that's like for a significant is that trade was, it's like a blip on the radar of Kyrie, Carmelo. Right. Paul George being like, I'm not going to sign with you guys again to Indiana. Also seems pretty terrible to hang out with Chris Paul in a social setting. How many times can you go bowling, dog?

Yeah, it's also just like, hey, what do you want to do tonight? Man, I was really thinking I'd sit deeply in this couch and think about my future. It's like, cool, I'm going to UCB. You guys want to watch the deuce later? No, I want to watch Tramette, Justin, thanks. If you did go bowling with him or like to Trivia night, like does his computer? competitiveness carryover because that would be kind of... I'm sure. I'm sure he's one of those guys that won't let anybody have fun.

He's like Googling during trivia night under the table. Yeah, right. Pretty terrible. It did seem like he was interested in Boston, though, which I thought was like something that I hadn't heard before. Yeah, that was interesting. Yeah. They also, I mean, I think that the way that they constructed that video was very crafty, too, where I mean, I was talking to you about this yesterday where all the footage that

they play from, you know, the sports media, quote unquote, is all ESPN shows. So they create this, you know, like impression that we were sitting around. 24 hours a day talking about where will Chris Paul go, which was like, it came up. There's like rumors about him being sort of enamored with Spurs. But I don't feel like we were like, man, have you guys heard any updates about Chris Paul? Yeah, we were like, okay, it seems like he's going to go back to the Clippers. You could get the most money there, blah, blah, blah. And also, like, we had to work out that the Spurs didn't have any room.

But we were not like that enamored with it. Yeah. It felt pretty cut and dry at the time. And I remember being shocked by how quickly things came out. Yeah. He picked the rockets. He got trained to the rockets. And it was a done deal.

There wasn't even like a rumor to the rockets that like kind of built the. They didn't like, yeah, hold the rock. They didn't like demand the world from the rockets. They like got a very fair return for them. They basically restocked the entire roster for Chris Paul. Right. Besides your Nostradamus blog post. Oh, you know, it's like I'm at this point like I don't feel like I'm getting it.

I guess that's really what I'm saying is like I'm annoyed that first take got referenced, you know, and all these, and around the horn and all these things got references as if. I wasn't the one calling Chris Paul to Houston. That was your newsbreak. I know, man. Is it your pin tweet? Because if not, that's your own. I'd be putting that.

I'd be dropping that in anytime Chris Paul did anything. So Chris Paul, you know, and then the interesting thing I think also in terms of timing is that the rockets, while they beat the Warriors, the first night with Chris Paul playing, who eventually like basically didn't play that much in the first quarter. He barely played. This knee injury that he apparently has. Which, thank God because he did, like, I didn't really understand. what their plan was at all.

And in the documentary, he says, I really want to play more off ball. I want to, like, spot up. I want to be in the corner. I just want to play on the wing. I was like, Chris Ball, that's not you. Like, that's why I thought, okay, this thing is super doctored. And maybe they dropped it then because he was like,

okay, let's release the footage of me saying I don't want to run the ball that much because James took it down the court nearly every time. Well, and that, you know, if you look at that Rockets footage, I think one of the themes of the early part of the year is going to be, this idea of like what do you do when you have a team with all these stars and how do you do you do you want to put all your best players on the court at the same time and figure it out or do you want to say hey like these guys can play together x amount of minutes but as far as I'm concerned I have like two or three really high grade lineups that I can throw out there and we can actually throw out

a plan B a plan C like in soccer all the time there's always these like tactical genius managers who like Pep Guardiola who manages Manchester City and he's just like all he does is attack he possesses the ball and then they attack and they score like seven goals a game and then sometimes when it gets a little tighter and they play like top level his teams in the past

when they've played against in Champions League stuff sometimes defensive teams can stymie them and they have to like figure out a plan B and he doesn't really like plan B's you know and I think that one of the things that will be interesting to watch with the Rockets, the Thunder all these teams is

what's the plan B? Is there a team? team that runs their ass off with James Harden running point or Eric Gordon running point. And then there's a Chris Paul version that basically closes the door on the game and chokes out possession. It's really, it's going to be fascinating to see how they incorporate it. Yeah, it's interesting that all these teams are top heavy, but some of the teams that are a bit more versatile that could do a bunch of different things like you're mentioning, I wonder if they have an added advantage. Like I think back to those Spurs teams that went to the finals back to back kind of out of nowhere. Yeah. They always really had the type of personnel to match up with every team.

You can go split or Dunkin. You can throw Dio in there. And they really were able to counter the heat, a team that's as top heavy as any in recent history, simply by having the ability to do whatever they needed to do. Yeah. Right. And it's interesting thinking about the Eastern Conference

because the teams that could surprise the Cavs and maybe Boston are like Washington, like they don't have a bench. No, they don't have a play. So what you see is what you get. It's like this offense, as long as everyone's playing the best they can, that's exactly the team you're doing. going to have to like plan for or plan against. And I thought that maybe like one of the deepest teams in the east was actually going to be the heat because they have they in the first game

they didn't start either of the brothers Johnson. And like they came off the bench and that's a really tough duo to come off the bench. Well the heat's almost the inverse. There's like what's the heat's plan A? Right. I know right. Because the heat don't know who is who's taking this the shot at the end of the game and they don't know like out of the gate who are we just going to go to keep us in the game in the first and third quarters and just like kind of like set. the tone. I don't, I don't, on any given night, I have no idea what the heater are going to do. And that can be an advantage or it can be a disadvantage. Right.

White side will yell at someone. Yes. I think it could also just be a point in the season sort of thing. Like earlier in the season, the teams that have not only continuity. Like one game. It feels like 30 at this point. No, but the teams that have the depth are obviously going to be able to do a little bit more, going to be a little bit more cohesive. Whereas a team like the

Rockets, you saw them go in crunch time against the Warriors, they kind of fell back into the team that they were last year, simply because that worked. I mean, I don't know if Chris Paul was healthy enough to go. I don't know if it was just precautionary or what, but what they had worked and obviously it was successful on that night. Yeah, I mean, the Rockets definitely need somebody who, when the game gets down to three or four points one, either way, either way lead, like they need somebody who can be like, let's actually like think about this for a second rather than chuck. You know, and like, we can chuck all game.

I think so. But Chris Paul was talking about himself as if he's like, I'm fine being. like Kyle Corver out on the wing. I don't believe it in Crunchtime. I absolutely don't believe that at all. All right. Let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsors and we'll come back and talk a little bit about these rookies.

Today's episode of Ringer MBA show is brought to you by Captera. There is a software solution to every business need and Captera.com can help you find yours. Whether your startup looking to keep better track of customers, a nonprofit hoping to have a record fundraising year or a business that simply needs better payroll software, Captera's got you covered.

Captera has over 400 categories of business software for you to choose from. Anything from email marketing to scheduling to accounting and beyond. Captera makes it easy to find what you're looking for, and you won't waste your time on free trials that go nowhere because Captera has thousands of ratings and reviews from actual software users just like you. Best of all, using Captera is absolutely free. Captera connects you with the best business software that will help you do what you do better. Visit captara.com slash MBA today and join the millions of people who use CAPTERRA.

That's CAPTERA.com, C-A-T-E-R-R-A dot com slash NBA, captera.com slash NBA. Today's episode of The Ringer NBA show is also brought to you by the big homies at Draft Kings. It's week seven and football season is in full swing, which begs the question, that's your fantasy football team doing. Maybe you drafted a dud and a dud and. in the fourth round, or your first round pick is on the shelf with a bum knee, or a collarbone. The good news is it's not too late to forget the injuries and get back in the winning column

with Draft King's one-week fantasy football. With Draft Kings, there are so many ways to play. Choose between public contests with big cash prizes or private contests where you can compete against a group of your friends. Draft Kings also has beginner and casual contests where you play against people of similar skill level. The best part is you get to draft a new team each week without any commitment. there is no better way to turn your love of football into cash this Sunday.

So get to draftkings.com now and use promo code basketball to play free with your first deposit for your share of over $1 million in total prizes this Sunday. That's promo code basketball to play free with your first deposit for your share of over $1 million. Draft Kings. The games inside the game. Minimum $5 deposit required eligibility restrictions apply. Draftkings.com for details. Guys, we are coming out of probably the most hyped rookie summer in recent memory where

all we talked about was the rookies outside of the free agent signings. This was like Lonzo, Dennis Smith, Markell Fultz, what's wrong with his shoulder? It's going to be fine. Stop looking at me like that. But I wanted to kind of see after ever like the incredibly small one game sample size how we were feeling about some of these rookies and we can buy or sell on their stock. just in general

one of the things I notice is that the guys who seem to play very hyper-aggressively and physically like Deeran and Dennis did well they were like I'm ready to go I'm aggressive I'm competitive out here the guys who are a little bit more like I play at my own tempo

I'm waiting for the you know like I play in the flow I'm just sort of like trying to find myself out here Lonzo Markell had a little bit more of a challenge Markell actually had a pretty decent stat line at the end of the night if you just don't look at the way it looked. I think it also helped that Deeran played the Rockets on a back-to-back. Yes. And I believe Dennis Smith played the Hawks.

Yes. And they even lost the Hawks, which is not. Yeah. He's going to have a dunk a night, though. Yeah. Like, that's the type of team that I'm not going to watch, but I'm going to see him dunk on someone every night and I'm going to love him for it. Right. Another highlight team, just like I said Denver was last year.

Yeah. You like watch the highlights, but maybe not the entire game. All right. So let's do a little bit of buying and selling of stock on a couple of these rookies here. Starting with the number one overall pick, Markell Fultz. Did you watch him against Washington? I did. I think that people are – well, okay, so anytime you're attached to the number one pick, there's all this around you.

You know what I mean? But I think that what people are kind of forgetting about him is that he's got two guys on his team, Ben and Joel, who are also trying to prove themselves in the NBA. So I think that with him, let's give him a month, see how it goes. You know, it was a very underwhelming start. But I think that there's more interesting things to watch on the Sixers. And I think that, like you said, he's kind of like a, okay, let me let the game come to me. Let me kind of like see what I'm going to do instead of like drive it to the basket every time.

Like he needs time before we can decide what exactly he's going to be like. They have good players now. They just have to figure out like what are we going to do with them. Yeah. It almost feels like Fultz is ancillary to everything now. Because you forget that Ben Simmons also a big star. Joel Embed, also a big star. I like what they have.

Fult was able to work his way in. I think the trolling has been so hard that if he does anything positive, I'm like, oh, okay, this guy could do it. I think they have a lot of versatility on the roster. I think we forget how much depth they have. I did notice, and I know we were talking about this the other day. It just seemed like there's a little bit of a clash going on with Joel and Ben Simmons. This has been bubbling up.

This is like I've heard. Okay, I did not see that. Well, Joelle, it seems like any time he has a center on him that he thinks less of, which is everyone, he wants to go at them. Like, he went at Skinny Yan Mahimi a few times just off the dribble, trying to take him from the top of the key. Yeah, when you say go at them, you mean from the top of the key. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, that's probably better than most options on most teams, but still, it was very much like old school Dwight Howard where he was just calling for the ball in the post. And it was like dribble, dribble, dribble, and then he does this thing.

Right. I just think, like, when you look at that team, and based on what I had heard briefly from one of the people, I know on the Sixers, it seems like there is a little bit of clash there, just in terms of style of play. Ben's the type of guy who's going to want to push the ball. Joel's very much a half-court sort of guy. And I think when you factor in maybe some ego stuff and just everything else with that team, I think. Just simply like two, a seven-footer and a nearly seven-footer occupying a similar zone of

the court is like, that's not a lot of room to work. It's like 14 feet of human, like standing around in like a box like at the top of the key who want to like kind of operate with the full view of the court yeah yeah you're not even playing okapha for at this point i don't think i understood until i saw last on on on them play the wizards like what ben simmons point guard meant both all for better for me except for the can't shoot part uh but he is like a ball dominant guard it's not like i'll bring it up and if i have like a laser pass like great but otherwise like dribble hand off and i'll get into like a set it's like right whereas that's how most taller point guards are yeah he's probing

And he's like, I'm going to basically try to dribble drive and then kick out or, you know, or dribble back out or whatever. And it's like watching a guy, I mean, not Nash like in the shooting at all, but like his intention is to sort of collapse a defense. People are sagging off of him so he's going to drive a little bit. And then he's got to learn a floater or be able to hit like a five foot jumper consistently or for this offense to work at all. I'm curious if you guys think that whatever tension, Ben and Joelle might have will go away as the season progresses just simply because

like I think that we're not considering that Joelle thinks he has a lot to prove because he's probably I mean think about it you've been on the bench for three years you've only played 31 games now what 32 and then like the same thing with Ben like he didn't get to play all last year you know what I mean so it's like

they definitely want each possession to it's a great unknown man it's like these guys just like are thought experiments yeah I mean if you look at their issues I think it is a lot of just trying to feel each other out at this point. They're very disjointed. I think Simmons only had one turnover, but as a team, they had a lot of turnovers.

Yeah. On defense, they just looked out of sorts. So, I mean, it's the type of thing that happens with new teammates. I think it's especially the type of thing that happens with rookies and young guys. Wouldn't be surprised that's why they're playing Baylis, like, they're starting Baylis. They need, like, two guys out there to be like, no, you stand over there. Like, that's where you stand. Yeah.

Redick and Amir Johnson are going to be big for this team, simply because they're old heads. Okay, so we have two rookies on the Sixers, Byers, Byers, Byer, Sol and Fultz. I'm gonna sell for now. Okay. Yeah, I'm selling. Okay, I'm buying both of your stock. Ben Simmons? Buy, for sure.

Buying, though, I am worried about the turnovers. Buying, I would love a jumper. Yeah. Just like just some, some distance that he is hot from. Okay, Deeran Fox, we already sung his praises, but like you said, against the rockets on his second end of, but buy for him. Give me all of it. What about Lonzo? I guess, I think that Lonzo will actually be fine.

But I will be interested to see if the Pat Bev thing goes in the book of, like, Lonzo doesn't like it when you jump into shorts. Yeah. If that becomes, even if the coach is like, I'm not going to make Chris Paul chase Lonzo ball all night, but the backup can. You know what I mean? Like whoever will find somebody on the bench who's like, why don't you go out there and drive him nuts for a while? Yeah. Right. Well, he already won't play against, is it Deer and Fox?

Is that the thing? Well, that's the, he's always like got back sort of this way. Yeah, it's the thing the internet made up, but like, okay. Well, Boogie believes it. And if Boogie says it's true, the Boogie News Network. Yeah, I'm buying Lonzo just like my reasonable expectations for him going into this season. I think he's very much the type of guy who, if you put in a team with a lot of talent, he's going to shine. And I wonder if, like, the Lakers just not having many frontline guys around him is going to hurt him.

He definitely looks shook. I did like how last night, even though he didn't have anything going, especially shooting-wise, he did get a lot of rebounds, like he was getting in there. And I think that's the thing you hear from coaches all the time. Like if your offense isn't going, just go do something. Go touch the ball. Right. So he didn't completely give up.

That's a really good point. But I will be curious to see if guys getting in his head is a problem going forward. He already has enough on his back, you know, shouldering the pressure of whatever his dad has put on him. Yeah. So that'll be interesting because he already has a lot of that. What about Jason Tatum, who all of a sudden, his season changed five minutes into the season when Gordon Hayward went down? Tatum all of a sudden went from Hey, anything he gives us is like an added bonus

To we need maybe 25 points a night out of this guy It's a bit much I've never been the big Tatum fan I know that the Celtics loved him I know Kevin O'Connor has a shrine to him In his home Bill too I think he did good in the first night

I was impressed by that I really like Jalen Brown And what this is going to like the opportunity is going to do for him I don't know with Tatum I've just never been a huge fan with him Right Browns he's Brown seems ready for those minutes. I think Brown also is like, I'm ready.

You know what I mean? It's like he's like, I'm the number three took two. He's like, I was waiting to his slasher. Yeah, exactly. With Tatum, I've seen, I think that maybe he might be a tad bit overhyped right now, but maybe people are looking for something to grasp onto after Hayward. But I saw on Twitter like new mellow, new Kobe, which I think is, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Just log off. Take one chill, chill, pill. Log off. But, I mean, I see a lot of great things. in him, I would buy for sure. Okay. The thing that's interesting about the Celtics is much like the Sixers. This injury now sort of changes their internal roster landscape a little bit. It's like now all of a sudden, there's all this to expect from Marcus Smart.

Who's now injured too? And who is also going to be an RFA at the end of the season because they couldn't have come to a deal. And before Gordon Hayward got hurt, Marcus's agent was like, they'll pay for this. Like basically this is going to be, this got a lot more expensive for them. Yeah. So now we have Jalen Brown. who definitely thinks he's ready. Jason Tatum, who a lot of draft Knicks think is ready,

and Marcus Smart, whose agent thinks he's ready. And they have to play with a guy and Kyrie Irving who might, let's just say, hypothetically, think, well, now I have to score a lot more. You didn't think that before? I think he was like, I have like a, you know, I mean, like, I have actually just in the little bit, you know, the Celtics have played.

I was like, Kyrie's dominating the ball and, like, shooting mid-range jumpers and double coverage. Like, that's probably, you know, not what Brad Stevens wants, but maybe that's what he'll get this season. I would imagine that somewhere deep down inside, like Kyrie's like hero ball time. Yeah, I feel like this season set itself up originally for this to be the Kyrie Revenge season. Him and LeBron were probably going to be the biggest storyline in the league because the Warriors were just going to win a million games and no one would care. I think it's setting itself up if we're going to guess the narrative, which we like to do on this podcast.

Yes. I think. Good segue. Yeah. Let's get into that. This is my first time. That was skillful. Yeah.

So guess the narrative of the Celtics. Tell me what we're going to be, like, what's the storyline now? I think it's Kyrie against the world. And honestly, I think this is exactly what he wants. This is what he set out to do. He wanted to have his own team. And he's kind of, it's kind of like, be careful what you asked for at this point. I think we're going to see a lot of shots from him because even against the bucks,

I know they were on a back to back. They just look disjointed. I don't know. They don't really have much in reserve here. They're a thin team to begin with. And now you have to play all these rookies. It's a lot of Kyrie going forward. Right.

It is kind of like be careful what you asked for because obviously, like Kyrie didn't have a no trade clause. He didn't necessarily pick the Celtics that we know. But he also went to a team that was like, had just went to the Eastern Conference finals. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, I want this to be my team. Like, this is my chance. But also like you're going to a really good team already.

And now a lot of things are shaken up. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what I think that the Celtics will probably like be there when, you know, we get to late November and everybody starts to level out it. That's where Brett's. Evens will probably shine. It'll be like, I can get these guys ready on a night-to-night basis and throw different things out there and beat teams that we're supposed to beat. And I think the Celtics will remain like pretty competitive and above 500.

But I do think that their title dreams, if maybe even their Eastern Conference finals dreams, might be over. Yeah, opens the doors for the box. Yeah. I do think it's probably best for the Celtics long term. Because either way, they're going to have to rely on these young guys. And they're even might have another one in the mix next year if they keep the pick that they might get from the Lakers. So I don't know. I think it's going to be better for them, but this season just seems like wash.

Right. And wasn't the whole Celtics thing like, okay, Kyrie is younger than Isaiah? Like, wasn't their whole thing like building for the future anyway? Yeah. Right. That was going to be my guess. Narrative is just basically these teams that were around the, from like four to six range in the Eastern Conference, Toronto, Washington. Not Toronto is going to be higher than four.

But those middle tier Eastern Conference teams like Toronto, Washington, and Milwaukee, now the narrative goes from Can you guys get better to this is your shot at the Eastern Conference Finals because this is a diminished Boston team this is a Cavs team that might go through injuries and may not take the season that seriously until they get to the spring

like that's and you know what Janice is playing up to that I was just going to say who did you guys like better out of the opener the Wizards or the Bucks Who impressed you more? Yes and you forget how much length that they have on that team

I like that team that they've built around him The good thing about Janus is you can essentially play him as the one on offense and the five on defense. I like Maker. He has some potential there. But you could pretty much just put four shooters out there and be like, Janice, win us the game on defense and win us the game on offense. That's tough to stop. But do they have four shooters? They have enough.

I mean, Milton's good. I guess you're counting on Brogden a lot. Snell again. I think they have enough to put together. The deli no rotation shot. Right. With their surrounding cast, you're kind of counting on them having like the operas. optimal year for shooting. Otherwise, I'm not really sure it's going to be exactly the Bucks team that it could be.

And there's such a premium on shooting now. I don't even know. Right. It's like, are we overreacting to? Who would they go for that would be available, like, to get that shooter? Yeah. They have a lot of money tied up in centers. I mean, Gregor Moreau is still on the books. John Henson's still on the books. And for some reason they picked DJ Wilson in the draft. Yeah. Not a guy I really liked. But I don't know. Wizards look good though. Yes. The Wizards know what they are already. Yeah, exactly. Well, we knew what they were last year. Yes. And they're the same thing. Yeah, but like they, you know, by the, by, I think it took them a while to be like, so Otto's the guy, right? Like, Otto's going to be the third option. And Otto started that Sixers game being like, I have no reason not to shoot every time I get, like, the ball.

Like, I am, I am like a legitimate offensive threat. Obviously, like, a lot depends on three guys, Ubre, Tim Frazier. My guy. But, like, you know. And who's the other one, Cortat? Well. I would not depend on. I don't even know who the third guy off.

Like, who's the third guy? on the wizards coming off the bench who can help them. Meeks, I guess. Yeah, you played a lot. You know, Meeks played a lot against the Sixers, and it's just they have an awesome starting five, Jason Smith accepted, and that will be their,

they're going to be the on-off team. Like when Wall and Beale are not playing, if they stagger them or not, Scott Brooks, not a noted staggerer of minutes, it'll be just really interesting, but I think that now those guys have to be thinking, like, the basement is the Eastern Conference Finals for us. We don't get there.

We're a failure. Yeah. And a lot of these teams, again, thin. Like, one injury to these teams, and I think it's going to look pretty down. And, like, what happens if Forre goes down for the Celtics? Yeah. They're looking at Aaron Baines is, like, the only interior player they have, really.

Yeah. And, like, Kyrie, too. Yeah. Like, he's had a pass where he'll, like, just dip out for a couple games, you know, like ankle, knee. It's always, like, something, like, kind of minor. Yeah. But then, I mean, I don't know.

That's kind of a bummer, too. Yeah, injuries are going to play a huge part of this season. All right, we got through these guests, the narratives. Let's talk a little bit about some opinions we're not willing to give up on. This segment is called, I don't care, I'm dying on this hill. A Bill Simmons classic, yes. Mine's Mellow Renaissance. What did you call it?

The Melosance. I know that you don't agree with me, Justin. But did you watch last night? I did. Some folks in our Slack won't even let us have like five minutes of like nice game for Mello. It's like against a crap team and he's not even to be. efficient. Well, there are quite a few New Yorkers in our Slack as well.

All right. I just want to read you guys some numbers. Okay. I really like the numbers. So a big math guy. Russell Westbrook, plus 29. Pretty good. Paul George. Plus 23. Also pretty good. Stephen Adams, even. Plus 26. Carmeline Anthony. Plus zero. This dude was a nothing.

He's got nothing. You know who was a plus 23 on this team? Abrinas. Give me Abrinas the god. If you were playing, but it's like, come on, if you're going to start a pick. up team, you're going to pick a Brutis over Carmelo because it was plus minus? I love his beard. Who was the guy who brought up plus minus

the other day, Joel or Hassan? Joel brought it up against Hassan. Apparently, like, he's reading into those too. As if we didn't love Joel enough, he's just bringing up advanced stats. Yeah, he's like, hey guys, I like advanced stats too. Don't worry. Pick me up on your fantasy team and tweet me about it. I'll be great. Joel's going to do like a 20,000

word Q&A on cleaning the glass. Just his thoughts on the four factors. Here's the thing. Carmela had wide open looks last night and I know it was against a team that might not be able to win the like you know the MAC conference

in college basketball Paul George and Russ he might always have those looks I thought they looked good last night I thought Stephen Adams looked good I thought they had that thing where you're like you can't guard all these guys you know they say like the one it's like the reverse

of one ball it's like yeah but there's only five defenders so you cannot double three people and Mello should not be the first option No. He's going to stand out on the wing and be like, oh, look, everybody followed Russell and Elaine. I have a wide open three-pointer. And that is how we remember how great he once was, him being the third option. Wide open shots that he made 40% of the time. Okay.

It's not great. Also, take off the hoodie, man. I'm sick of the hoodie. Why are we still doing this? You're wearing a hooded sweatshers. It's not on my head. We are in Los Angeles and Justin Verrier is wearing a hoodie. I don't know what the weather's like in OKC.

I think it's just that the plague is sweeping through the rare office. So we're all dressed for winter even though. It's still 90 degrees outside. All right, Justin, what's your, I don't care I'm dying on this hill? So, I don't know if I mentioned this on the pod already, but I picked Blake Griffin preseason to win MVP last year. I was mocked. And by that, I mean, by like the two people who knew I was still covering the Pelicans at ESPN. But he looks really good.

I was watching him yesterday. He just, I mean, I don't know if the Clippers will ever get past maybe like the four-seat. That's probably their ceiling. But he just does a lot out there. I love him kind of unhinged and like not having to worry about Chris Ball. He no longer has like PTSD. he's just worried someone's going to tap him on the shoulder and be like dog get out of here yeah right um but like his shot looks really good i remember watching him in some of those like

midnight hawaii games and he was just hitting three-pointers and he hit a few last night he was three for six and that's like a big thing for this team if you're gonna play dj and blake in the front court someone's gonna be able to shoot just small side note how fun is it that we don't anymore know what the clipper's stealing is like for the last how many years we've been like we know exactly where this team is going to go and they're gonna buy us out of those night tonight. That was sort of the fun thing of watching them last night. They looked pretty crisp for a bunch of guys who have all had like massive lower body injuries over the course of their careers.

Like, I mean, Danilo even like has like that. Danila has now entered that zone that like every time he gets the ball and like I hope his ACL doesn't rupture. But watch it. It was just great to watch him and get to watch him just like playing with Milos and doing like these little like pick and pops. And it was just great. I was like, this is a fun little team.

I mean the prayer is the same that they can all say healthy. but we no longer know what they can do if they all can stay healthy, which is very exciting. Yeah, I have no idea. And it'll be really exciting to see them in the playoffs. Gal looks like he's been eating too many burgers with Milos, though. Does that dude ever run a win sprint? No, I know. He looked a little bit like Andrew Bogot meets like a tight end claimed off of injured reserve,

who's just there to fill out a practice squad. Apparently this is the season of guys entering and being like, oh, not in great shape. Like they didn't just have an entire summer to get in shape. Yeah. His Mohawk wasn't like finally quaffed. No. There's no gel in that mohawk.

It was not a corny. Yeah. At least get your Mohawk, right. I don't care I'm dying on this hill. Nobody's really challenging me on this, but I just wanted to throw out there. John Wall is an outsider MVP candidate. I think a couple of the guys, I think it's going to be a strange MVP here, which is just because it's kind of LeBron's to lose because he doesn't have Kyrie on the team.

I think everybody's like, we kind of. messed up by not giving it to him two years ago when he obviously was the MVP. You can always do the Warriors or canceling each other out stuff. You could do the Paul Harden cancel each other out stuff. Now you can do a lot of the best players canceling each other out. Exactly. It's like this is LeBron's team. And if they go to the finals again, I feel like, you know,

or if they look like they're on their way to the finals again. Plus, Eastern Conference teams are going to look so much more impressive. Right. What John Wall does is going to look so much more impressive. But if the Wizards come in second in the Eastern Conference, I feel like John Wall is going to get consideration for the MVP. Okay. I agree.

I don't even, but I don't know why I would die on this hill since no one has challenged me. It would be sort of a reckless death. I guess you're living, so. One of the things interesting is that we all find the Raptors super boring. Yes. And the Wizards are kind of like storyline. Yeah, oh my God. We have not talked about the Raptors at all.

Like, not just on this podcast. I think it's because nobody on the Raptors can do what John Wall does on a getting night. Exactly. So if Kyle Lowry, if you swap Kyle Lowry for John Wall, you might not get radically different records from those teams. But everybody would be like, like, lead pass alert, like John Wall on the Raptors just done. just dunked on a dude. Yeah. They're way more interesting for that reason.

Although it'll be really fascinating. They've already started talking a little bit about Demar de Rosen is the person who has to change the most now that they've jumped their offense up to 2014. And, you know, that everybody else is pretty comfortable chucking threes but that DeMar has to get used to like,

the ball either needs to be shot or moved. Right. And you can't just like kind of find your spot at 11 feet and do a turnaround jumper. Yeah. The Raptors toying with a three-pointer in preseason I thought was low-key like one of the weirdest things. Yeah.

It's like kind of an acknowledgement that they need to change. But then even I think when Casey came out was like, oh, that's not really our game. So. Yeah.

One thing I wanted to mention just as we wrap up here and you could call this like a little bit of concern trolling, which I think we'll do fair amount of on this podcast. But I do want to just throw this out there and this is somewhat

influenced by the Lakers Clippers game, very much influenced by the Blazers' Sun's game, which was this like a pretty brutal blowout. I think it was the worst loss in Sun's history. Yeah, looking good, Sons. That the gats, between the top and the bottom is a little off, that you want to have some sense of parity in this league

that on any given night a team could beat another team. And I'm sure that, like, people were all fired up to come out there. Maybe Blazers are like people are doubting us. Sons just have a bunch of 19-year-olds. But the one, I don't know whether this is a trickle-down effect of the super teams, but the bad teams are really, really, really bad. And the Knicks are garbage. and the sons are really bad

and that these teams might get rocked every night. Now that being said, the magic one, you know what I mean? The Hawks one. So it's some of the teams that we thought were going to be god-awful have already gotten Ws. But I was a little bit stunned. And when you think about, so they trade Chris Paul to the rockets, the clippers get completely restocked.

No one player who's as good as Chris Paul, but a bunch of players were really useful from like Decker and Beverly. And they just get all these guys. all those guys are not going to really bad teams to help fill out the Knicks roster. That's why Ron Baker is trying to play like Pete Marevich last night. So I'm a little concerned about the competitiveness in the league on the night-to-night basis. It won't stop everybody's enjoyment of it.

And if anything, I feel like the NBA feels like such an antidote to the football season we're having so far. I would say that, but that's my feeling. But what do you think? Am I crazy for saying that I'm a little worried that the bottom is too low? I actually do think, I'm not going to call you crazy, but I do think that that's an overreaction because I think there are fewer. Now, granted, we're like, what, two games in, one to two games in, but I think that there are fewer worse teams than there are last year. Really? I think the Eastern Conference is way worse this year. Who in the West didn't get better, except for the Suns?

Well, the Lakers. We thought, yeah, we thought that they were alive. I see what you're saying. You know what I mean? And maybe that's like, okay, yeah, but everyone left the East. and we'll just have to see because a lot of those teams, it's like, honestly, I don't know. I thought that the heat, we're one game in, so I don't want to overreact, but I thought that the heat were going to be, like,

the team that you weren't expecting to come out and, like, be very good and competitive, you know, because in the East, yeah, the upper tier is a lot more alarming and, like, prominent. Justin, maybe I'm overreacting to, I mean, you make a really good point, and then maybe I'm just overreacting to the fact that the Sun's lost by scoring 76 points. But like the Pacers and the Nets are good, but they had a shootout. So I'm like, fine. If you guys want to score like, if you guys want to go 132, 128 or whatever it was, the net that that looks fun. Right.

All the teams that we thought in the East were going to be terrible might actually end up being average just by comparison. Except for the Nicks, yeah. Yeah, except for the Knicks. So like the heat, maybe the Pistons, the Nets, although, you know, wow, Jeremy, that's going to be tougher. The Pacers. Yeah. I was ready to say, like, I enjoyed some Eastern Conference basketball the other night. Yeah, Eastern Conference, the new Western Conference.

Watch a little magic. We're just going to say that. We love doing this. But, like, Wizard Sixers, that was a fun game. Yeah. Like, you start to, I think because the bar was set so low, you start to appreciate some of the things that they do have. Like, they have a lot of fun guys in those teams. But one thing I think you're getting at, though, is I think we're in kind of an era where it's, the NBA is better to be a league-wide fan than just a fan of Team X.

Yes. Like, and I don't really know many people who say there are diehard X. Like, there are a lot of Lakers fans, especially out here. Right. That's a good point. But most people I know just love the league and they just gravitate toward the stars. And so for that reason, I think the league is great for that. Right.

On Twitter, the whole thing is like, well, if LeBron goes to the Lakers, I guess I'm going to be a Lakers fan. Yes. It's wherever these guys go. If you loved Paul George last however many years, now you're probably going to watch a lot more Oklahoma City. Yeah, I also, I mean, it almost feels like, I mean, this probably speaks more to like the bias in my timeline. but the degree to which like even normal fans have become like amateur sports writers. So they have like people are just like developing more opinions about teams. Why don't you're at me?

Come on, you're pro now. The degree to which even amateur fans are developing like quasi-pro takes on like anything from Janus playing on the block. Yeah, that's true. And they're using all these like advanced statistics and like the spacing terms. No, I get that. And it's a lot more fun. and it makes the league a lot more interesting, like you said, to watch as a whole. Maybe I wouldn't have this opinion at all if it wasn't for the overarching kind of narrative about tanking and the idea that, like, well, look, if you don't have a shot at the title, you might as well play for a pick.

No, and that makes sense, but who do we know for sure one to two games in is tanking this year? The suns, the Mabs. Probably. Definitely the Sons. You know, who else do we know for sure? No, you're right. You're right. I have no reason to be concerned.

I still think the Hawks are going to be really bad. Oh, my God. Yeah. Do you guys have any concern trolls before we go? Yes, Minnesota's defense. Good God. I was like one of the people who were like, no, it's going to be so much better. Taj Gibson's great.

You know, Jimmy Butler's great. They're really going to whip everyone into shape. But even the guys. So Kat looked really bad on defense. I'm just going to chalk that up to like one game in. I thought Wiggins, by comparison to last year, looked fine. But Jeff Teague? Yeah.

I've been saying all precepts. season, wow, it's such a contrast from Rubio on offense. You know, Rubio would never drive in with that power, but it's such a contrast on defense. Turns out you were lying to yourself. Turns out, yes, exactly. I needed to control, concern, control myself. But seriously, like, last, was it last night that they played? No, two nights ago.

Tibbs pulled out Jeff Teague late in the game for Tyos because his defense had been so awful. Classic Tibbs, affirmative. No, that is classic Tids, and he really has grown to. rely on Tyas to just be a reliable dude late in the game. He did that a lot with Rubio because he can bring something very decent on both ends, whereas Rubio couldn't do it on offense. I mean, one game in looks like Jeff Teague won't be able to do it on defense. Really quick, concern troll for you.

I had to ask the millennials in our office what concern trolling was, so I think I get the gist of it now. I'm just going to point this out of here. Love the Nets. Nets are looking good, man. I know things are bad with like Jeremy Lynn? Wait, so are you concerned about the troll? You're a concern.

I think the troll. No, you're an optimistic. No, wait. I don't get the concept. I don't get the concept. I want to talk about it. When you're worried about something unnecessarily. I'm worried that people think that Jeremy Lynn was a bigger part of this team.

There you go. That's a concern troll. Good job. Full circle. Full circle. Watch out for my guy. Okay. Yeah.

Hoodie, Justin, wants you to watch Caryslavert. Haley's concerned about the Minnesota defense and I'm concerned about teams being bad. This has been NBA group chat. We'll be back with you. next week. Until then, for Haley and Justin, take care.