The Ringer NBA Show - 'Group Chat' — NBA Watchability Rankings (Ep. 170)

Episode Date: November 30, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are joined by Danny Chau and Haley O’Shaughnessy to try to figure out just how bad the Thunder really are (1:44). Then the crew re-ranks the top five NBA teams based on watchability (20:04), before ending with Danny’s Odditorium—a new segment that dives into the mind of an NBA oddball (29:51). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Ringer MBA show Group Chat is brought to you by the Ringer podcast network, where you can find new shows like the JJ Reddick podcast featuring God's son, Joelle M. Beed as his first guest. You can also listen to the rebooted, revamped, remodeled binge mode with Jason Concepcion and Mallory Rubin. They take on Coco and the Coming of Age Pixar movies this week. Two really exciting pods for you to listen to. so let's get to talking about basketball. Basketball is very good. The Rockets are better without Chris Paul.

Janus will win the MVP. What if Kyrie Irving is actually God? Basketball is very good. Hello, and welcome to the Ringer MBA show. This is group chat. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm joined by Justin Verrier. Hi, friends.

Danny Chow. Off the bench. Off the bench. I'm ready to contribute. Haley O'Shawn is seen nursing a two-week cold. Oh, that's Air Haley to you. Air Haley. We're going to air everything.

Guys, everybody here is wearing at least one piece of denim. Beyond jeans. Multiple pieces of denim. It's important. I feel like this episode is dedicated to Sturgle Simpson. It's dedicated to Ryan Adams. We got a little bit of the news stuff to get through at the top. We're also going to do watchability rankings.

And then we have Danny's segment. Have we decided on a name for it? I think Danny's Auditorium. Yeah. Danny's Imaginarium. I like it. It's just some. In thoughts from Danny.

You know, I haven't been on this podcast before, so just wanted to get into some weird shit. Well, we're already drawing up sets for you. We're already giving you the ball at the end of the game. I saw Danny. Let's start a little bit with the news. The news is always bad. And so that's, we always got to start with the thunder here. Last night, they lost the magic.

Another 40-point performance by Eric Gordon. We're going to get to that nickname. Justin, how bad is it right now? I think it's pretty bad. I think it has been bad, and I think people kind of assumed that it would get better simply because of the talent they had in this team.

But I think we're starting to see some clear cracks, and they're the type of things that I don't know how they're going to rectify, because it seems like it's kind of baked into the foundation and some of the problems. Chow, if it was like an effort thing, you'd think it would be the defense that was suffering. But the defense actually, for the most part, is not bad.

The defense is great. Yeah. So what do you do you? what do you see when you watch them as the major problem? I mean, what I see is Melo needs to come off the bench. And it's just a thing where I'm waiting for Billy Donovan to put his foot down and, you know, get this to happen. It doesn't matter who steps in. I think Patrick Patterson, your boy, Alex Sabrinas, Justin, could step in.

They just need more shooting. They need more, I don't know, like low-maintenance guys who can kind of just. step in and do their role without taking up a lot of usage. So do you think it's a rotational thing or do you think it's specifically mellow in what he does to the starting lineup? I think it's both. I think when you think of a third guy in, you know, when you think of a third guy in a big three, you're thinking of a guy who can do multiple things. And when you look at Mello, he's still only being the guy he's always been. He's still, you know, a first option alpha type with the ball. He can't really contribute on the defensive side of the ball. And it's really crushing

them because, you know, when you have three guys who need the ball like this, especially with Russ, it's not working. I'm glad you mentioned Rush. Russ. Obviously, we were going to talk about him. There was a moment last night where at the end of the game, there was a tweet from Eric Horn about how Russ had left the locker room to go to the X-ray room with the team trainer. It's so lit right now. And I was like, there was a little, little 1% part of me. I don't want anybody get injured. But I was like, I wonder if Russ needs like a fractured hand and a two to four week break or something, however long it takes to fix this hand, just to like have like a reset on

this team. Not that Raymond Felton would be getting, but Raymond Felton would literally just do the point guard job. And George and Carmela would be two and would be one and two. Just to reset this team. And I think that's part of the problem right now is that there's like, no end in sight for the misery. Right. And he's obviously frustrated. And he's like, it's a lot to take it all on yourself. And that's what he's done after every loss. He's been like, it's on me.

It's on me. But I don't think that's the reset they need. And you're not tell it. You're not being like, oh, I want this injury to happen or anything. I just think that they need something probably where they are forced to do some different things. But that's what Danny was talking about. It has to be mellow going to the bench. And when, you know, it's interesting because we were going to bring up who's the fall guy. It's Billy. because he needs to put his foot down and say, this is not working. We have three guys who all need, like Paul and Russ are high usage.

You need to surround them with guys who will just compliment them and don't need the ball. And the thing is that Mello has been getting the ball on a lot of possessions. Yeah, and this is where Billy comes in because, you know, he did a nice job with them. He has done a nice job with them, but then I think that you could make the argument that a replacement level coach with that amount of talent

the Billy Donovan inherited could do a nice job at the Thunder. Last night was the first night where I felt like he was very explicit about the stuff by saying that they're not really running my stuff. Right. Like they eventually they're going to need to listen to me and listen to what I'm saying. I always associate they're not running my stuff with the point guard. Yeah. I mean, in his defense, he really does have one of the toughest tasks in the NBA telling Russell

Westbrook to get in line. Yeah. Which is like, has anybody had success at that ever in Russell Westbrook's life? Right. I mean, I think the Warriors game and like the post-Warriers games, the two after that were really educational. It really comes down to, it seems like in order for them to win to be able to play on the level of a Warriors, Russ has to be full Russ. Yeah.

But as you've seen when he's not that, when in the game after, I believe when he was against the Pistons and he's like one for nine for three, it's just not going to work. And he doesn't know how to kind of scale it back and go into anything else. It's really, he's kind of an extremist, which is not a surprise considering how we discuss him. And I don't know if that's like on Billy Donovan to figure out. It's kind of on him to figure out. And it's sort of when you talk about, when you talk about bringing Raymond Felton in to play with the starters, sure.

Russell Westbrook isn't a guy you can kind of, I don't know, like prepare to. Are you trying to say that he's not a guy that you, you have to basically build your offense around him or not have him? It's not somebody you can adjust his style of play. It's definitely an all or nothing thing. And I think that's kind of where, bringing Mello off the bench works because you get Russ at his maximalist tendencies. And a player who can play offball like PG is the number two.

It's like the perfect like, okay, we finally have the Kevin Durant replacement here. But then you also get Mello coming in with a second unit. Yes. Hopefully. And it's like, thank God because they really need something. Yeah. And you pair them with Raymond Fulton back to their next days. Right.

It's perfect. Let me throw a little bit of a trade out for you. Sure. We're doing trade suggestions tomorrow on the ringer.com. Great website. I love it. It's so nice. And the one I had been thinking about and one I pitched a Danny earlier today,

what if you traded Russell Westbrook? If we're saying that Russell Westbrook is the... I don't know how this team changes. Can we run it back from the top? I don't know how this team changes as long as Russ is there. And so if we're saying that, what if you traded Russell Westbrook and let's say Roberson to the Pelicans for Anthony

Davis and Rajan Rondo. You probably need to make the salaries work somehow, but that's the basic framework. What do we think? A lot of blank stares. I'm not blank staring you as much as I think that Presti's pot committed to Russ. This reminds me of post-finals Sixers with the Iverson

in the years right after the 2001 finals where it was just like, Iverson is, it's just going to be built around Iverson and we're going to keep bringing in different guys, Iguodala, I think Larry Hughes, whoever it's going to be, like, is going to come in and they're going to have to play around his style of play. And he's going to drive and he's going to have the highest usage and it's going to be his way. I think Russ is probably like a more well-adjusted person and a better

teammate for those guys. But I think that I guess I wouldn't put it past Presti, but I don't think that that's in the realm of possibility. No, no, it's completely made up and not going to happen. but I do wonder if they're resigned to this world where it's all Russ or nothing. And I think we're looking at a future where not only might they lose Carmelo and Paul George this offseason, but also I don't know if it has like a chilling effect on the rest of the league where they're like, oh, maybe he's too Iverson-esque and we don't want to play with him. Yeah, the backlash to Russ this year has been pretty not kind of astonishing. You know what I mean?

Like it's been pretty actively, aggressively, like pointing out when he's when he's, when he's hunting for, you know, when he's hunting for triple doubles. But that was planted last year when he won MVP. Sure. Yeah. But it was cool last year. And then we were just waiting. Everyone was waiting for him to like fail this year. Right. What do you, this is a Stan Van Gundy quote from after or before they played the Pistons. I'd be shocked if this team wasn't a contender at the end of the year. I think they could play with Houston, play with Golden State, play with anybody. Is that true or false? I think it's true. I mean, I think that they still have all of the pieces, all of the versatility

to match up well with those types of players. I'm here with Jonathan Charks, who had written this a couple weeks back. He'd told me that, you know, he thought by the end of this, they're probably the second best team in the West. They haven't shown it yet. And I think part of it is what I've been harping on this entire segment is that Melon needs to get off the bench. But I think once they can kind of coalesce all of these broken pieces

that are kind of fragmented right now and Mello finally gets over his own ego. Yeah, that's the question. Is he going to get over his own ego? Like, would he be just the player? Like, would he try as hard if he was coming off the bench? Yeah. I'm really not sure.

Antonio Daniels had a rant last night after they lost the magic where he talked basically, like he was almost talking about the thunder in a way, which we've often regarded this franchise, which is like as this extended college community. It's like they're, it's the only professional sports team in town. There's like a kind of rabid fan base. There's a lot of investment in it.

There's a lot of scrutiny of it. And it was interesting to hear him talk about it and to notice the way that Mello has sort of talked about being there where it's, it's not quite, I'm just passing through. But he's definitely like, I have seen the world beyond Oklahoma. And like I'm a little bit more, I'm a little bit better versed in all of this. I just, I thought that was pretty interesting. We can play some audio from that. You are representing your community, you are representing your city, you are representing your organization, and it's embarrassing. It is embarrassing that teams continue to have their coming out games against the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Dirk Nabitsky has been invisible all year, but then against the Oklahoma City Thunder, he looks like the Dirk Dibisky of old. Yeah, Aaron Gordon has gotten a laugh and he's worked on his game. 40 points and 13 rebounds? There comes a point where somebody on this roster has to take a... a hard foul, has to get a technical foul, has to get thrown out of a game, has to show some sort of emotion and some sort of passion that will trickle down the line to everyone else. You cannot continue to go out every game and just talk about doing the right things, not do the right things, and expect a different result.

Let's talk very quickly about some of the other teams that are going through chemistry issues this week. We had the T-wolves with some sniping between Jimmy Butler and Carl Anthony Towns. What was that all about? Well, Carl was complaining for foul calls to the ref. And Jimmy was basically like, what are you doing? Like we have other things to focus on right now. Stop complaining.

That's not exactly what he said, but that's, you know, body language and everything. He was basically just like, stop. And I wrote a piece about it earlier this week, but it's like, didn't we always know that this was going to happen with Jimmy Butler? I mean, last year, the biggest complaints about Andrew Wiggins and Carl Anthony Towns were effort-based. And Jimmy is this like huge like give it all you have and like I want to play all 48 minutes and blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, he's like so intense. Yeah. He doesn't want that as a teammate.

And so, you know, I guess he's kind of fed up with Carl doing that kind of thing. Yeah. Haley and I were talking about this yesterday. I feel like Jimmy is kind of the bullshit detector in the entire NBA. And when Jimmy Butler calls you out like I think that's a sign that you should probably get your shit together. Right. Right. He just has everything in line.

Tibbs brought him in specifically for this reason. And you were pointing out yesterday that Wiggins seems to have responded to. Right. Same position. And he's like, okay, I see exactly what you're doing and I want to do that too. And God, Wiggins looks so like, it's like last year you could see it on offense. But this year he looks so much more confident. He has the room to do so much more.

And I thought it was interesting what you said yesterday where you said maybe if KG had stayed, Carl, it would have the same effect on Carl. And that's something we'll never know about, you know. It was really fun to think about. Carl Towns is also a little bit in the Russell Westbrook camp of somebody who keeps putting up insane numbers. By all accounts as a unicorn, everybody loves them. But at the same time, now there's a growing kind of like what's underneath these numbers. We're getting to the backlash. Yeah.

Is this something you anticipated? I mean, it comes for everyone. And I think there was, there's this kind of swoon going on right now because, you know, I mean, it happened with Anthony Davis. Yes. I mean, you covered that firsthand. I saw all of the downside. You saw Carl Anthony Towns kind of rise up, kind of take the, I don't know, blotted out the sun that Anthony Davis was.

Right. He took his guy's spot. And yeah, like it's so strange because I remember the defining play of Carl Anthony Towns's rookie year being when he guarded Steph Curry on a switch. And it was just like, this guy could be a defensive maven in this league. Sure. And all of a sudden, it's just, it's evaporated. He doesn't have any real commitment, any real passion to play on that side of the ball. Yeah. And people get so much more frustrated when we see the athletic ability. And then we assume it's all effort, which, I mean, I think is mostly a right assumption. And that was the complaint with Wiggins, too. And he can't take on the, he can't use the excuse of like, well, I'm just doing so much on the offensive end that I need to have my back cover on defense. It's like now you, there's a lot of. Jamal Crawford's out there. He's happy to take some of the offensive look.

Other teams going through some valleys right now. Obviously, the Grizzlies well talked about this week on other Ringer podcast, Ringer NBA shows. He Check and Chris and Kev talked about it on Tuesday. But where are you guys at with the Grizzlies? I mean, I thought that the Fisdale hiring was very surprising to me because he had so much personality. and momentum for that place in a town where I think that they really respond to characters,

which is why Grit and Grine lasted for as long as it did, beyond it maybe statistically proving out as like a good formula for a winning team. But this just seems like a bad situation all over. And one of the hardest parts about it is like how murky it is about who's calling the shots. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was kind of encouraged going into the season with Fizzdale, not only because he brought them to the playoffs last year, but they were kind of slow playing this kind of modernization of their offense.

They kind of phased out Zibo and Tony Allen in kind of respectful ways, even though they did kind of let them walk and they probably could have brought them back this offseason. But I thought they were making all the right moves. I think Conley's injury concerns are going to be lingering going forward. I think that's going to be a big concern. Obviously, Gasol, I don't know if he's the type of guy who could just carry what they have. I think Chris Harrington had a really good piece on the commercial appeal in Memphis. just the other day.

And he was kind of pointing out a lot of things, but one of them was kind of like, this puts the onus on, not only ownership, but the front office. Like they installed Chris Wallace back in his GM, and now he has a lot of mixed kind of results on his resume, including the Chandler Parsons thing, which is just as damaging as perhaps drafting

his team at the beat number two overall. Yeah. It's like, those are the type of moves you need to nail, and they're just like significantly as he put it in the red as a result of those. There's ownership questions. You wrote about the possibility of a sale coming up. there's obviously Hollinger still there.

John Hollinger, who used to work at ESPN and is sort of one of the leading figures in advance analytics. He's in there. So you think that they have some, some good numbers behind some of the choices that they're making.

But then you've also got weird sentimentality, like with Parsons or weird kind of like, I test stuff with Parsons. I think the danger for, the one danger is, is that like, I don't know if a team like Memphis can really survive bottoming out.

And I think that's been the conversation around T.M. Kevin O'Connor blow it up. Right. I don't know if anybody comes back. You know what I mean? Like if you blow it up in Memphis and you don't get Bagley or Bagley can't revive that team or whoever you get, you're in trouble. Well, and is something Bill reminds us all the time of doesn't, don't the Celtics have the Grizzlies pick in what, two or three years? I think, yeah.

Well, I think it's protected next year, right? Something like that. Yeah. It's protected all the way until 20, 21, I believe. Okay. Yeah. But that's the type of time frame that if you don't blow it up now, you could... Right.

That could be the type of pick where that would be in the lottery. Yeah. Fisdale of the Thunder? I'm all in. Look, I think the thing with Fizzow, and I wrote about this last year when the Grizzlies were just kind of figuring this out just before the playoffs, we kind of skim over all the things that Fizzle was actually able to do. Like, he actually modernized Marcosal, which was something that Dave Yeager before him

tried very hard to do and and marcosol kind of resisted but he made marcosol a 40% three point shooter within like a couple months of the offseason so that was huge getting um jemichael green a guy who i think is very important to their future if you know they have one right um getting him the minutes getting him you know time with the starting lineup it's there's a lot there and i i think he can do a lot with another team. And with the Gasol drama aside, I also think that he seemed like a coach that the players really respected.

Yeah. And I mean, this isn't Billy Donovan's fault, but college coaches who come into the NBA tend to have a hard time transitioning from, you know, in college it's kind of like not a democracy. And then you come into the NBA and all of a sudden these guys make more money than you. Billy Donovan, a perfect example of this.

Right. So you really need to like have their respect. or find some way to make them listen to you. And I don't really think that that's there. You watch college basketball. When the point guard is walking up the court, he is looking at his coach to see what he's supposed to do. That doesn't happen with Russell Westbrook.

And it doesn't happen, you know, probably doesn't happen with Mike Connolly, even though Fizz knows pro players. I just think Fizz would be an interesting, like, if Billy Donovan can't get a hold of that locker room, they wouldn't do this. Presti's not going to fire a coach in the middle of the season. I'm just saying that would be an interesting introduction

into their locker room, is to have somebody who is like, no, I'm the alpha. And I'm going up against Russ and these guys. All right, let's take a quick break and we're going to come back with our watchability rankings. All right, guys, we're about a quarter of the way in the season, right? Yeah.

And we've been watching a lot of basketball. Some of the teams we thought were going to be aesthetically pleasing have been like watching paint, not dry, but actually crackle and fall off the wall. And some of the teams that we thought were going to be crap to watch have actually been super exciting and entertaining on a nightly basis. I'm going to put it, yes.

So let's go through this. Now we each picked five. We're going to have a lot of overlap. So why do we do this? Starting with you, you can just say your top five. Okay. And then we can just talk about the teams

as we go around. Okay. That's good. Number five, I have the Celtics just because during their run to glory, 16 straight, that was fun. And you're gunning for a raise. Yes, they're so good.

I love green and just everything that they do. Four, I have the thunder, mostly for Schadenfreude reasons. Three, the Lakers. Fun Lakers. Love those Lakers. Brandon Ingram, man. I love them.

I love watching them at night. Sixers, two, also gunning for a raise. And one, I have the Knicks. Yeah. Just based on, you know, they always play at the right time of day. Like, it's that game that's just like always on as soon as when you're ready to watch basketball. And also, it feels fun to be a Knicks fan these days. Like, I'm kind of just like secondhand smoking Knicks fandom.

Yeah. Through our NBA slack. It's just like, it seems like good vibes all around there. I do feel a little. little, like, microagressed by the Knicks fans. Like, they took my I'm happy corner. It was my ear. Right. And now they're like, no, Porzingis is better than all the six it. It's like, all right, I guess so. I would say one thing about the watchability rankings that really factored into what I did was, does it seem, not only am I having a good time watching

them on television, but does it seem like the people there are in the stands are having a good time watching? Like, oh, I don't give a shit about anybody else. No, but here's the thing. I've said this. before. One of the reasons why I can't get into Houston on a regular basis is because it seems like there's 37 people there. Oh my God, I totally agree. And they're so late getting to the game and they're so late getting back from halftime. It's just rare. Like if you had this Houston Rockets team and you can like afford to go, you should go. You should go cheer for this team. This team like comes around once in 10, 15 years. So the idea that like they're just like,

oh yeah, yeah, another 10th three from Eric Gordon is just like, come on guys. This is nuts. It is interesting you say that because I look at my rankings and they're literally the five teams we talk about the most in Slack. And they're the type of teams that just drive conversation and just fandom basically. So Rockets are almost like Golden State last year where you're like, I'm sure they're win. Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah. I'm not there. Yeah.

Dan Tony is painting his masterpiece right now and I am watching every single second of it. I haven't really watched yet. So is Houston number one for you? Actually, they're number three. Okay. What's your yours? So number five out of the Lakers. Okay.

Number four, I have the Nets. This is something that we wrote last week about, you know, the kind of sneaky good players in the league. And I feel like the Nets are just an entire roster of them. Yeah. I love Spencer Dinwiddie. I love Trevor Booker. I love, you know, Ronda Hollis-Jefferson. Get back soon.

Trevor Booker, weird head. Like, just like, back of his head is just really squishy. Like, I don't know. I'm just, I watched those Nets game. I'm just like, what's going on there? I'm going to put that on his wicked. real squishy. Yes.

Number three, the Rockets. Number two, the Thunder for all the reasons we've talked about. I think we could just say that we all watch the thunder the way we watched Nathan for you, right? It's just so awkward. Yeah. And number one, Sixers. There's just punch it in. There you go.

That's my guy. Okay. So I think. So last night I took some cold medicine. And then I did this. As you do every day. So forgive me. but I A, didn't put these in order.

And also I didn't really understand the concept. I can see how watchability would be. These are the teams that when they're on, I watch them. I'm not necessarily sure that they're enjoyable for everyone. Some of them are. These are personal rankings. Yeah, some of them are. Yeah, I feel a little like vulnerable right now.

Okay, so I do have the Sixers. I just want to like to say that. I also have the Raptors. who I think that's actually a pretty legit watchability. And I know that maybe the past couple years they haven't been because it seems like the same old. But I would like I recommend watching them to everyone. I watched them last night.

Yeah. There was this one incredible play that says everything you need to know about them. De Rosen drives to the nail exactly where he always wants to be to take that long range to. He jumps up and then he just has like, oh right, it's 2017. And he like out of the shot, passed a Larry for like three feet behind the three shots. Their ball move it has been amazing. And you know that thing that the Warriors do all the time where it's like they've been,

they're in the half court, they've been passing it, they have a pretty good shot, he could take it, and then they just make one more pass. Yes, for the wide open. Now the Raptors are doing that, and then they have the perfect setup.

Yeah. It's been beautiful. I think their efficiency has probably gone up so much. I haven't really checked the numbers, but I'm big fans. Also, their defense is good. I'm a big fan of them. All right, moving on.

Oh, also, wait, one more thing, Timberwol's fans, who suffered through last year's third quarters just falling apart. Watch the Raptors. I mean, now they're the new. They have taken you over as they completely have fallen apart. And like the last,

I don't even know how many games during the third quarter. And it's painful, but it really reminds me of Minnesota last year. Unreal, recognize Unreal. Yeah. So it's comforting in a way? Like, no. Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, yeah, I guess Minnesota fans can be like, well, at least that's not us. anymore. It's like watching someone like a teenager going through growing pains like their first breakup you're like, I've been there. Been there. Yeah. It gets better eventually. Okay, then I have the jazz and this is where I feel like I need to make my case.

It's just purely entertaining to me to see them push guys into different offensive spaces than they're used to. And it's also... The opposing teams or guys on the jazz? Well, I suppose both because their defense is really good, but the jazz players. And Danny, you wrote about this, and I love that piece, but they are making Ricky Rubio do things he doesn't usually do.

They're giving Donovan Mitchell room to do everything he wants to do. Literally anything. Yeah, anything he wants to do, especially with the absence of Rodney Hood. And it's entertaining. It really is entertaining. And it's something like where if you're just an NBA fan who likes to watch players like force into different positions, I find it very watchable. When Jim O'Brien took over the Celtics by, what was that, 2003,

I can't remember it was like a Pierce Antoine Walker year. And their team concept was, if you do everything I say on defense, you can do whatever you want on offense. And that meant Antoine Walker just doing whatever, just shooting all over the court. And it worked for like a season. I do like, I don't think that Quinn Snyder is quite so cavalier about the offense. But it does seem like they're like, let's just go get some points and not worry so much about whether you're in your spot or whether or not you're playing the same position you've played your whole life. And if Ricky Rubio can't shoot, let's see if he can shoot until he can shoot. It's kind of how the ringer runs, right?

Exactly. Set a pick, but and then you could go. The question is which one of us is Rubio? Interesting. That's like an escape room question. Walks out of the room. I won't even really bother with my watchability rankings. I'll just say it's Sixers, Healthy Knicks.

I'm not into watching non-Christop's Knicks, but Healthy Nicks. Agreed. The Golden State Raptors. Houston. The Thunder in an awkward comedy way. But I did want to mention the Pelicans. because these the pelicans are

the most far past what I thought they were going to look like because you rank them so low and I am now I'm having a personal big man renaissance like I've really really been enjoying

watching Embed and a little bit of Dwight and these guys and Kerr and Bill talked about this yesterday but they were talking about how it's almost like a gimmick now to put in a big man and just drop it down in the post

And none of these guys are strictly low block players like drums playing out of the high post and bead starts at the top of the key like Garnett used to. But watching boogie and AD play together and then this weird like outlaw backcourt that they have of like Drew and like all these like you know scrap heap guys. It's just really, really fun to watch them. And also boogie is rubbing off on Anthony Davis as we could see from last night's ejection. Yeah, I think they're very much leaning into that kind of boogie mindset. set and just personality. Yeah. And as you saw,

like, AD has never gotten ejected in his life. And, like, even his, uh, his technical fouls are very low. I remember just from covering him. Like,

he's just such a benign kind of personality and force. And it seems like they're just leaning into being boogie, like, redox. I thought that that AD toss was interesting because it seemed like it was so much based on prior his, his past personality. Like,

he's so chill that when he did that, I think the ref was just like, out of here. Right. But like, Draymond does that three times a quarter where he like chases down a ref from the other side of the court to like argue about like whether or not somebody had like an off ball, like a moving pick.

So anyway, all right. We want to get to this new segment. It's Danny's auditorium. This is such a dumb segment. No, no. There are no dumb segments on podcasts.

I feel like we need a circus drop right here. Our producer Kyle just looked at me through the glass and it's just like, I disagree. No, Danny just wanted to just point out. a couple of things that have been really tantalizing him that maybe the average NBA viewer has not noticed. Danny very much is the person in our office who sees

the world and find that little thing that nobody else is noticing and just seeing the beauty in it. So I just wanted to see... I mean the Nets were on his watcher. Exactly. And I just want to... He looks attacked right now. He looks attacked right now. Come on. It's not that weird. This is a compliment.

Yeah. Okay. I love this. All right. So guys, let's talk about Willie Colleen. Yes. Yes. Okay. So a few weeks ago, he was in New York, and he was talking to New York media, and was like, I kind of have the same skill set as Porzingis.

I just need the opportunity to show it. Two games after they played the Knicks, he got benched. And so ever since, he's been coming off the bench, playing with Kosukufus in the second unit, and he's been thriving. Yeah. He pretty much single-handedly brought them a win. against the Warriors, who didn't have Steph or KD, but, you know, not really an issue. But I really enjoyed watching Willie Colley-Steine now because he kind of now has everything that he's ever wanted in, you know, being able to show off some of his more wild ideas about what he can be as an NBA player.

you know, playing alongside Zach Randolph at the beginning of the year kind of stifled his ability to create from the outside. And, you know, it almost always ended up being a low post entry pass to Zibo and Willie Colleyside, which is kind of stand out there. But he's such a gifted athlete. He's so, he moves so well laterally that you kind of want to see what he can do and see what he can become, especially on this Kings team that's going to probably end up winning like 24. 20? They're gonna, 25 games? Remember,

remember everybody was like, that was a big bet to bet the under on the Kings, right? Because they had like, was it, 44? Was the,

the over? God. No, it was not. There's no way it was that high. 42? It was in the 40s. Are you sure? It was in the 40s?

The Kings? I don't know. I don't know if it was in the 40s. It wasn't. But what I love about Willie Stein is that and the Lakers game, which I watched the entire thing

for some reason on a like a Friday night, which is a peek inside my social life. Oh, it's 28 and a half. my bad. Close enough. But Lonzo caught that lob on Willie, and Willie, like, barely even registered it.

Just got back on defense, didn't really show much of a facial expression one way or another. And he's just, that's kind of how he goes about things. And it seems, and like, to his credit, it seems like that's paid off where he's moved around to a lot of different places in this King's offense. And now he's kind of coming alive. I like that future with him in Deere and Fox is kind of like two guys you can build around. What's your next one? This is a kind of weird one. It's just something that I've been thinking about.

Jamir Nelson has had a really interesting career. Yeah. Just seeing him go from playing with Dwight, who was an era-defining big man in his own right, to playing with Nicola Yolkich, who is probably the exact opposite of Dwight in almost every conceivable way. Possibly also an era-defining big man, though.

Right, exactly. And now kind of growing alongside, or not he's getting older, they're growing, alongside Anthony Davis and DeMarcus cousins. Jamir Nelson, I think, has the second best net rating on the team among their rotation guys. And it's just he's a guy who just keeps plugging along. I thought he was going to be left her dead after he had that injury in the 09 season.

But what, six, seven years later, still here. Right. Part of one of my favorite ever college basketball teams on safe. Joe's at the Lante West. Yeah, that was a fun one. Yeah. And who they drop? Who did the nuggets drop to, in order to, oh, Richard Jefferson.

They dropped Jamir to pick up Richard Jefferson, which really hasn't worked out for them. I think they could have used a steady hand, especially with Moudier kind of fluctuating between a guy who might be the second coming and just like that's turning the ball over. That feels slightly like a front office being like play Moudier. Yeah, that could have been true. If you provide Mike Malone with a safety blanket, he's going to use it. But they're like, we need to see what these kids can do. Yeah.

And if Jamal's going to be the point card, then Jamal's going to be the point guard. or whatever. But I thought that was an interesting move in the beginning of the season. Let's talk a little bit about the Raptors. We chatted a little bit about them and the watchability, but I see that the Raptors are actually good, not that weird. You know what? That's my entire take. I think the Raptors are good. Capital A, capital good. They have the best bench in the league right now. So who comes off the bench for them? Fred Van Vleet. Love it. Wichita State Pride. Right there. He's a guy who, really reminds me of the Raptors version of T.J. McConnell,

guy who comes in there, very gritty, kind of understands exactly where he needs to be and what he needs to do. They're playing him, he's like a 5-11 guard, but they're playing him alongside, you know, Kyle Lowry is like a super small ball, in super small ball lineups. And I think with the Raptors,

you look at their construction, and you look at Casey finally kind of getting it, that he can kind of switch, his guys in and out, depending on matchups now. Like, he's not so dependent on Jonas being, you know, a relevant NBA player anymore. Sure. He can kind of have Ibaka step in as a five. They have Oji Ananoi who has been kind of a plus minus type of Shane Battier player for them.

And putting him in the starting lineup has kind of allowed the Raptors to really flesh out their bench. Norman Powell, who I thought was going to have a breakout year before he has, before he had its injuries and stuff like that. And CJ Miles has been a really good addition in terms of just adding three-point shooting. They've got 10 guys playing more than 10 minutes a game. Absolutely. He's been really, Casey's been really smart, I think, in how he decides the front court and how he's, like, adjusted it in game and how he's finished games.

He's not like somebody who has to ride with like, all right, it's the fourth quarter, these are my guys. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's coaching. I love coaches like that. Yeah. I think the Raptor is really boring.

I have no interest in the Raptors. Are you boring because we've been dealing with their being good for someone? It's really the perception. Yeah, kind of. I feel like if you look at my watchability rankings, it all kind of comes down to young guys who could potentially come into something else. Whereas like... That's why the Lakers are on there because you get to see the potential of it.

Sixers, Prasengis, those type of guys, even the Celtics. With the Raptors, it's like there is room to grow, but it feels like there's such a finite ceiling placed on the team that not every possibility is imaginable with this team. There's only like a very constrained set of outcomes. Yeah, I thought that before this season. I was like, okay, they're the Eastern Conference Clippers. Is that why nobody here put the Warriors on their watchability rankings?

Because we're just kind of tired of their brains. Like last night I actually really enjoyed them because it was really fun to watch Steph and Katie. Just be like, no. This is not going to happen. I wish KD had stepped up in a bigger way this year. I'm really disappointing because I thought this was going to be the year he was going to go for best player in the world. He was going to be LeBron's kind of challenger for MVP, his main foil.

But he's really just kind of settled into back this. I mean, he's going for a defensive player of the year. Didn't he have a quote where he was like, I don't need to be that guy? Yeah, which is disappointing. I mean, it's great for him. He could do whatever the hell he wants. But like for me, I just. For a viewer, it's not exciting.

Like, I loved watching Steph just go for it. Yes. He very much wanted to just be the guy that's just like to find an era to a certain degree. When Katie, I feel like has that capability, just doesn't seem like that's like as high on his priority. His door was Brandon Ingram last night. You could see that alpha coming out in Katie. It comes out from time to time. I would just like it to be every game.

I'm kind of getting really into Katie stepping into this like Theo Ratliff role. The dude is averaging like two and a half blocks a game. That's when we saw KD coming out of Texas. I think everybody here was like, God, do we finally have the next thing around? Yeah, exactly. What a perfect way to end the podcast. For Justin, Danny, and Haley, I'm Chris Ryan. We will talk to you next week on NBA group chat.

Protect Lonzo. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.