The Ringer NBA Show - Half-Season Superlatives and Kings Nation | Group Chat (Ep. 366)

Episode Date: January 10, 2019

We award 2018-19 half-season awards for: Best Player, Most Surprising Team, Most Disappointing Team, Most Confusing Team, and League Pass Poison Teams (0:50). Then, Kings superfan Riley McAtee joins to talk about how he hopes the rest of Sacramento’s season unfolds (43:46). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Haley O’Shaughnessy, Paolo Uggetti Guest: Riley McAtee Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to the Ringer podcast network. True Detective is back, and The Ringer's Chris Ryan and Jason Concepcion are our guides as we navigate the twisting pathways of season three's plots, themes, and characters on the flat circle, a true detective after show. Follow Jason and Chris as they chase down leads, explore each episode's cultural context, and discuss true crime cases that mirror the ones in the show. Join the guys live every Sunday night after True Detective on the ringer's YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook pages. Basketball is very good. Jimmy Butler is actually a good teammate. Saabonis is the most important front court pacer. Deeran Fox is better than Donovan Mitchell.

Basketball is very good. Hello! And welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the group show. I am Justin Verrier. I am wearing a turtleneck. He is. And joining me, as always.

Paulo Getty. What's up? It's great, by the way. Thank you. I appreciate it. that. And the glue gal, Haley O'Shaughnessy. Also joining us, Bobby Wags, on the ones and twos. Waggie B is what I wanted to start calling you, but I don't know. We could work with that one. You don't have to let him call. You can say no.

So, no Chris Ryan today. He is hanging out with Malley Rubin talking about dragons, preparing for all sorts of different live talk shows. We stick to the audio medium because we keep it real. Wow. But we are replacing his fourth chair at a certain point. Riley McAtee will join us later to talk about the most interesting team in the NBA. But first, we're going to talk about some teams at the midway point of the NBA season. I think most teams are at the 41 game mark. So it just seems like a pretty good time to talk about who is doing well, who's doing poorly,

and who is doing things that are memeable. Man, time flies. Time does fly. This season has been kind of flying, actually. I don't know what it is. Maybe we're just really comfortable. We're in a groove. We've played alongside each other a couple times.

I know where you're going to be. Yeah. We're like the thunder this year. Yeah, definitely not last year. Right. Paul George. Who's mellow, Danny? Yes.

Who's mellow? So probably the best place to start is just the best player in the NBA. And I think last night's game between the Milwaukee Bucks and the Houston Rockets provided a nice little window into that. Mokkey Bucks won that game. Although James Hardin had 42, kind of came alive late in that. game, but the Buck's defense really kind of put the clamps on him. I would say that right now, while Janus has been particularly good, his team is first in the east, I believe, at this point,

I would say that James Harden has been the MVP of the first half of the season. Not only because the statistical argument, and he's had like, what, five, his scoring average is five more than the next highest guy, I think, yeah, Anthony Davis, first in RPM, all that stuff. But if we're saying, like what this season has been about in a very Russell Westbrooky MVP sort of way, I feel like this is kind of the season of James Harden being the sort of superstar

that we haven't seen ever before. It is, it is just in general, just while he's scoring and shooting from threes in a ways that we've seen before, but the way he manufactures points with just the stepbacks, with just getting

to the line, with getting calls, all this other stuff. It's just, it seems like he is actually facilitating the offense. He's just like this singular talent that I've never seen before. And so I just feel like the season is about Hardin at this point. It is very fascinating to me how we came into the season thinking it was going to be this sort of MVP-like campaign for big men like Anthony Davis and Janice. And Janice has taken a huge leap.

Like the Bucks are in first place. I don't think anybody is, if any of us expected that. So it's very hard to go against that because it's more of a gradual performance. progression in terms of like Janus and the Bucks have just been really good the whole time. Whereas like Hardin has had to be the best player we've seen in like a long time, this stretch for the Rockets to even be where they are right now. So he's almost the definition of valuable in that sense. I still think that I would give the S to the Yonis just because of the leap that he's made in the way the Bucks are number one, whereas

rockets are not number one in the West. But it's very, it's getting very hard to deny Hardin. What do you say? I cannot believe the term. analogy you guys are using right now. Wow. Why? Because. Are you anti-Harden? So are you saying? No, not at all. But I remember two years ago, not with you, Justin, but I'm just going to assume, okay? I'm sorry. That's right. And your Hardin argument against Russ. This is the exact people who did not want Russ to win the MVP are now saying that Hardin should win the MVP. And you could also make the argument that Hardin now is sweeping people away from the logical choice, which is Janus, like Russ did in 2016. and 17, everything lines up. Russ led in points that year. This is the least help Hardin's had in years,

which was Russ's problem back then, and which is why everyone found him so impressive, myself included. And the Rockets' record is not spotless. They have how many wins? They're 24 and 17? 23 and 17. Okay.

They're 23 and 17 because they have a really mind-blowing run and a 14 game-long performance without Chris Paul. Mm-hmm. Where Hardin has been by himself. Doing everything, as you said, singularly. Okay, at this time, in the season, in 2016-17, Ruses MVP season, the Thunder were 24 and 16.

And the main argument against them was always that it should be more about wins, it should be more about elevating your team beyond just capable, but to truly magnificent team. And the Thunder were always just capable. And we're saying this the night after the Rock it's lost.

To Janus in the book. I just told you. I think Giannis has the edge. I'm just saying, right, right. The one thing that I think about when I think about this argument, part of it is the fact that what is, it is fresh on our minds,

but at the same time, I feel like what we're going to remember the season for is this hardened stretch. This, this watching him every night, you know, beat the Warriors on that three, kind of just step back and crossing guys over. Like,

there is almost an aesthetic addition to the already amazing numbers that I think bolsters is case in a way that maybe we didn't expect going into the season. I don't even disagree with you, but what I'm saying is it's so interesting to hear this compared to like two years ago and especially what you just said aesthetically because up until two weeks ago, now it's kind of gotten quieter but still true. People were constantly saying I just can't stand watching Hardin' Play. He's just not fun to watch play. I get what he does is effective, but it's not fun. Yes, who else wasn't fun to watch play in 2016-17? Russell Westbrook, nobody liked watching him play.

But it was effective. It's so bizarre to me that now the same people who were not in favor of him winning in 2016-17 are making the exact same argument. I'm pointing to you, Paulo. Okay. I was not in favor of Westbrook winning. In the same way that I'm saying Hardin is going to make this year memorable because of this run, that's what Westbrook did.

Right. What do we remember about 16 and 17? Exactly. The thing that blows me away mostly is, just the record. If they finish with a far better record than the Thunder had that year, okay. Well, I think that would be my case for Hardin. I totally agree with you.

I think we are kind of becoming entranced with just the theatrics of what Hardin is doing. And a lot of them are coming down to the wire. So there's just like this energy that comes off of a Hardin performance that you just don't get from Janus just like dunking over the calves and winning by 30. I would say the main difference between Westbrook and Hardin is just effectiveness and efficiency. Yeah. Because while Russ was this one-man band who kind of did everything and had that same sort of vibe

going to him, the Thunder were 15th on offense that year, whereas the Rockets so far are fourth. And I think, like, Hardin has found some magical blend between being Russ and still being a Steph Curry, which I think is really unique and interesting where his offense is basically his own, he's one team where he could put up numbers. This was in Kirk Goldsbury's piece on ESPN the other day. which is really good, is that a hardened isolation play yields 1.16 points per possession, which is a really nerdy stat. It's basically like what you could expect from him doing one certain thing.

The buck's offense not in transition is 0.99, which essentially says that a hardened isolation is better than any set play that the bucks are going to run, which is incredible. Yeah. Like he is a one-man offense, and he's not sacrificing anything, I guess is the point. He's not also damaging. So when he's in isolation, he's not damaging. Does that also account for if he dishes it out and somebody else scores off of it?

I believe so. Okay, because he also has, even though he doesn't have Chris Paul, and this is the most alone we've seen him, he also still has great three-point shooters around him, even without Gordon. He's got Austin Rivers who's been playing really well for them. He's shooting like 38%, Daniel House, 37%, PJ Tucker, 40%. See, but I think the thing is the thing we're not made me realizing is that there is a small aspect of a heartens game that is like LeBronzen that he makes everybody around the matter

just because of what he does from an isolation standpoint and how he draws defenders to him and then kicks it out. Yeah, this is a weird part of the MVP discussion that I always hate where it almost becomes like you don't know whether or not to knock the front office for building a like the proper context for this player to succeed or do you favor a team like the Thunder in the Westbrook years where it's like if he had a few more shooters maybe they would have been a lot better and maybe his points would have kind of been lower. And so the stats wouldn't have been in Gaudi. A lot of this for me is just out of spite because it was just two years ago that I heard this exact same thing being used as an argument for why Rush shouldn't be MVP.

But if they do finish with a better record, then I'll concede that. So who's your MVP right now? Yonis. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah, I would say by a slight edge. He does it all for his team, but still has a good team surrounding it. That's like the definition of Yonis in the bucks right now.

Remember when we talked about what we look for in a league past team? I mentioned, you know, you almost, you need a sort of like this scarred figure to be able to take over games and do essentially what Hardin is doing. And I think that plays into how we also think about the race, if you will, because while Janice is having, I think he had 20 and 20 last night,

at the end of the day, like who's going to have the ball down late in a close game and it's hard and he's going to have those for lack or better term, Heisman moments that we call them in college football. He's going to have them more often than Yonis, maybe. Yeah, that's a great point. We were discussing this last night. I think I would also... Who was?

Apollo and I... Okay, cool. You were with Sean Yu watching the Rockets without us. I definitely did not want to be in the group check, so... Cool. That's the other thing about Hardin's game, though. Why he's going to have those big moments

a little bit more than Janus is because of his game, the nature of his game. He shoots the three. Yonis doesn't shoot the three. Three is more than two. It always boils down to that. And so his big shots will affect... the game more. I thought last night's game was a perfect

example of this where Hardin was, the buck seemed to have foiled him in a way that I hadn't seen like ever before and I wonder if more teams are going to kind of take heed and see it and we'll see that more where they're, what was it, they were forcing him more right and to drive more rather than to step back and three. We'll track that going forward. Shotsamalkin yeah. Yeah, I mean, I wonder if a week from now we're basically saying that like Hardin is shut down and he's not even close to

it was. But no, I just, I think it's easier for someone like him to take over a game late, whereas you watch Janice, and he's not the best ball handler. He's obviously a plus ball handler for his size, but he was forced to dish it off to kind of set screens to get the offense going. And I think a few years ago, the Henry Abbots of the world would be like, well, you want the best shot out of a set offense, not a hero ball. But you could see what Hardin is doing. He literally, like, erased a 15-point deficit.

They were down to three with like two minutes to go. They had every chance in the world to be in a game that they shouldn't have been And that's the most fascinating part to me too is the fact that he's taking what we in these past few years in the NBA have previously thought of as a bad possession or a bad style of play in the isolation

and made it efficient through his own efficiency. Yeah. It's just such a weird blend of new and old and it's just kind of fascinating to watch. Other guys I put on this list just for consideration, Joel Embed, I think he had another 40 point or something on their night. Yeah, the six years are Sixers are kind of a mess.

Nicola Yokic. Steph Curry, Paul, George, Kauai Leonard, Anthony Davis. Among this list of kind of like also rands, do any of them make a particularly compelling case to you guys? There's kind of caveats for all of them, right? Stuff is time. Pelicans are losing.

I guess you could make the argument probably the most for Kwi, although he is still resting on back to backs. I think the argument you can make for the most for is on this other list is Yokic because the nuggets are the one seed right now. And he does so much for. them that maybe doesn't result in the godiest of numbers, but he's very much a lynchman. And, and, you know, I, I feel kind of bad because I have never been a huge yokech person. I just, there's something about him that never really clicked with me.

You don't like the floater. No, you know, I just, I don't know. You know, I don't know why. I just never really click with me. I'm not saying it's fully clicking with me now, but it is pretty undeniable what he's doing. Yeah. The one guy that stands out on this list to me, Anthony, Davis.

I remember when Anthony... God, I know. I've been such a Pelicans Optimus lately, which if you follow... Like, if you were in our Slack channel...

No, well, last week... Oh, you were in D.C., but last week I was all about you know, maybe the Pelicans, if they get one more guy back in the, they can break back into the top four, but it was weird.

Did you not listen to a podcast? No, she does not. No, but a couple of years ago when he was first kind of rising to prominence, his whole like case was based on statistics. And it's funny that he's leading in P.R.

ahead of Janus, ahead of Hardin, and nobody notices them. Because of that same thing, everything is diminished with the Pelicans now. We expected so much and they've just kind of disappointed so much that we forget the fact that AD is just putting up 20 and 20s all the time and just probably the best combination this season of defense and offense. So I don't know. And I think it's particularly interesting that in the All-Star voting recently, he did not get into the top three of the front court in the Western Conference. That's criminal. You know who was there?

Luca Donchish. Wow. And now this is just fan voting. Yeah, yeah. The media voting will come in and the player voting will come in. And I really doubt that they'll gravitate the players will gravitate toward a rookie. But I think it's particularly interesting. I want to add somebody to this list.

I think maybe I find it weird that I'm kind of having to cape up for him. But Kevin Durand has been having an amazing season. He's averaging 28 points, more rebounds than he did last year, more sciss than he did last year. And he's played all 41 games. And I know you added Steph and Steph has been amazing, but he's missed like 11 games, I think. And Durant's been kind of this Iron Man of complete efficiency too, maybe not as flashy or as dominant as James Hardin. But I think he, I would put him in my like top five or top three right now.

I think here's the problem with him. And I'm not saying this is my problem with. him personally. Sure. But I think this is why we didn't even think to put him in this conversation. The Warriors narrative has overwhelmingly been that this team is not as gelled together as they have been in the past, right? Sure.

Which is kind of a, it keeps developing every year that they're kind of separating a little bit. And there's just no narrative around Kevin Durant. I know. And I find that kind of a bummer. I find that a bit of a bummer because he's been really good. I always find it's weird when the media talks about why don't people talk about anyone?

Sure, yeah. Because we're literally just talking about him right now. No, I'm not even saying that though. No, but I agree with you. Like, he does not, like, for some reason, all of his heroics just kind of get lost. And I think part of it's just because, like, it's the equivalent of splitting the vote,

but just in real time. Because, like, we gravitate towards stuff. He's definitely the spirit of that team. And even in recent days, like, the fact that boogie is going to come in and join them, it's just way more interesting than Kevin Durant just dominating what they have. Which is fine because that was his own decision.

Yeah. And speaking of All-Star voting, it is interesting that Duran is ahead of Anthony Davis. I think that's probably appropriate, and I guess we'll see what happens when Luka Donjic ultimately drops out. And speaking of the All-Star team, it's time for NBA All-Star voting. And this year, it's actually easier than ever for fans to vote because you can vote just by searching on Google.

Just search for your favorite player team, and you can vote right in the search bar. You can also search on Google to stay up to date with live scores and view upcoming game schedules. The All-Star game is February 17th and voting runs until January 21st. Fans can vote for 10 players a day, so go vote on Google. All right. Next up here, I think it's kind of a relevant topic to what we were just discussing. The Houston Rockets, I have them as my biggest surprise of this season, which is a little disjointed simply because they were picked, I believe, second in overunders in the West.

and they're way below that at this point. I just think the way that they've come back from the dead has just been so incredible. To be clear, you're saying most pleasant surprise. Yeah, most pleasant surprise. I always think of surprise as pleasant, disappointing as disappointing. I don't know.

I just at a certain point, I think we all kind of came to the conclusion that they needed like this big trade in order to solve their issues, that it was core deep and that they just didn't have the supporting cast to do what they're doing. But all of a sudden, They started 9 and 11, and now they're just three losses they've had since December 8th.

They had a big trade. Did they? Austin Rivers? Are you serious? He's been good. He's been... Put some respect on that L.A. native's name. Isn't L.A. dude?

I don't know, but he was with the... He was there a while. I believe he's from Orlando, but, you know, it's the L.A. of the East Coast. No, I definitely not what Edgwick is. It's just a big turnaround. They have done a lot of those interesting. moves on the fringes. They picked up Austin after he got weighed by the Sons. Daniel House has been good for them. The Gary Clarks of the world, they've been good for them. I don't know. It's just

the way that they've turned this thing around has just been a complete surprise for me. And I'm glad that they're back. I like having them in my lives. I always hesitate to give them this because, like you said, they're only most surprising because the season started so unexpectedly terrible. Yeah. The Celtics are kind of in the same vein for me in that way. So I wouldn't call them the most surprising if we're giving it a pleasant connotation. For me, this would go to the Spurs, absolutely. San Antonio lost its best player, replaced him with a guy who kind of goes back in time. You know, he's like a really odd's mid-range star.

And he's going to the Spurs, who already kind of hesitant to, like, really embrace the three. And they also lost some extremely keen veterans. They lost Tony Parker, Monu retired. And at the beginning of the season, Dejante Murray got hurt. And we were like, oh, my God, their seasons over. Yeah.

It's very much a testament to the system. And we're saying there's seasons over because Dejante Murray got hurt. Right. You know, so at the same time, I just, like, I think it's incredible that they have gotten to this point.

But I'm not sure I should ever say that about something Greg Popovich does. Right, exactly. That's the thing. I think it's a testament to the system he's established her, which is kind of have to, this year I feel like it's had to

be some sort of thing where they figure out who they are along the way as opposed to knowing who they are before the season. I think Kevin has reign about this about how you know when the O'Connor and Clark. Kevin O'Connor, yeah not Clark. He's written about

how when Lamarcus and tomorrow on the floor they're prioritizing the mid-range. Whereas when they come off the floor, they're actually shooting threes which is this weird kind of duality that is very fun in a way but also... That's what Popovich does best is taking players and finding their strengths and

Exactly. I'm most surprised by them for definitely. Yeah, I think that's like a testament to great coaching. I just don't know another team that could do what he's done, where he's just basically playing different styles depending on the personnel on the floor. And I think it's interesting, especially because like, I used to think about this a lot with Alvin Gentry and the Pelicans, where he almost used to force players who probably shouldn't have been playing his style of play into that. Like, Boogie is the perfect example where I think Boogie adapted to what they want to do,

playing fast, shooting three, all this other stuff. but I think you saw like maybe they pushed him to his limits and that probably had like some effect even like I don't know big or small in him having that kind of debilitating injury but the fact that Pop can kind of just like pick and choose how he wants to like use these guys is incredible and you look at the talent on the floor there

like you said they don't have Dejante Murray who might be their most talented young guy if Rudy Gay still Paul Gasol is getting in there Davos Portans is back from the dead we thought he might have been a miss but all of a sudden he's been playing particularly well. There's just a lot of guys that they're getting in there.

So that brings us to our NBA watch of the night. The Spurs are actually playing the Thunder, which is like another team that you can kind of rope into this category. I think they've been a little bit of a surprising, especially because early in the season they had some of those injuries. We thought Roberson might kind of sink them. But here they are. They look as good as they have been pretty much in two years.

They're one of those teams where nobody really knew what to expect from them. But it has been surprising in a good way. the fact that Paul George and Russell Westbrook are working so well together. This is kind of weird timing to say that because it came just after the Thunder loss where Russ took two threes as the clock was running out and essentially they lost the game because of it. But I do think that they've been a pleasant surprise, especially on defense as well. Yeah, I think it's really interesting. They're playing the Spurs actually on TNT tonight.

And I think those two teams, I mean, it's funny that all this stuff happens. and then years later, it's just still the same teams going at it, pretty much in the same place. Yeah, you can catch that game tonight at Thursday. I think it's the late game. And remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on MBA.com,

Amazon or your local cable or satellite provider. The only other team that I would throw in there is the Brooklyn Nets. Our Brooklyn Nets, we've been waiting so long, patiently waiting for this team to kind of explode. And all of a sudden, you look at the standings, they're literally right behind the Boston Suss. Celtics, six in the Eastern Conference, although kind of a distant six.

Yeah. There's even more recency bias on this one than the Rockets. Yeah, I mean, they've definitely turned it around lately, and I think that... It's 13 of their last 17 that they've won. That's pretty incredible. I mean, I remember for a certain stretch while we were over Christmas break, like they kept getting a lot of easy teams. Like, even when it was a good team, like the Raptors or some of these other ones,

it was like, oh, they'd just been on a second game of a back-to-back. Yeah, so they'd be in the Raptors, Sixers, Lakers, and Pelicans in that stretch. I guess I'm not exactly sure what a winning against the pelicans means anymore. Without carous overt, right? Yeah, I just love how they've picked up all the pieces and really created this context for Assar to just step in there and automatically kind of start winning. They really are just like one marquee guy away because you have the three-point shooters, Joe Harris, our guy, Rojohn's, Crooks. I don't even know how to say it, so I'm just going to mumble it. Crooks.

Quirks. Spencer Dinwini, they brought back on a contract. I think he could start. he can come off the bench, depending on what they want to do with DeAngelo Russell. Jared Allen is a ringer favorite. Like I just like a lot of good guys, a lot of good hangs on this team.

I'm very intrigued by the possibility of this being a Jimmy Butler destination. I like that. Because I think if you were to leave the Sixers and not stay there, I like everything you're saying, putting him there because it seems like he just needs a place where he is the guy,

if you will, and they need somebody who is more of the guy. And I think they would kind of worry, and it wouldn't become, I mean, maybe, you know, it seems like everywhere Jimmy goes, there are some sort of issues that arise, but maybe there it would be a little more fitting, if you will. I would like it if he wasn't on a contract year if this didn't mean him signing a new contract there. Yeah, because you know what Jimmy is expecting, although if he doesn't resign with the Sixers

and he resigns with someone else, he won't get the maximum. Yeah, he would get four years instead of five. Which is like a little bit better. He still get a maximum contract, but, or he'd still seek out. maximum contract, but he'd get four years instead of five. But, I mean, I kind of think it goes against everything that the Nets have been working for for years, which is not locking them into something that's a mistake. And Jimmy Butler is 29, very injury prone, not a great locker room force.

Kind of feels like a mistake. Although I do, I would love to see him on that team. But I think the Nets, first of all, they were on that original Jimmy list. Yeah, because he just wanted to get money and play in a big market. Right, exactly. But he definitely cares about winning most. But the fact is that within the big market teams, the nets are probably on the lower, you know, you probably go Lakers, Knicks, and, you know, even Warriors now. They're less flashy.

Yeah, exactly. So I think they're in this weird limbo where they're not exactly not a free agency destination, but they're not the ones players maybe think of first. Yeah, yeah. Something like that, right. And so I think that he would work there because of that if he actually wanted to go there. because I don't know who else is going to want to go there. Yeah. I disagree.

I think that we are going to see this new wave, especially with this class of free agents, because there are some bigger names. And then in the future of the most appealing thing about a franchise is the idea that they have enough caps a space that you could create the team you want. Because now we're in the era of super teams. I feel like I said this a million times.

See, but I disagree with that a little bit because... It's not like they're moving to Wyoming. No, no, no, no. I disagree that we're in the super team era just a little bit. Like, there are super teams, yes. But as we watched with the bucks and the rockets last night, there's a, I think there's a value in having a more... The rockets aren't a great example, though.

Chris Paul went there. Yeah, but I don't think that's a full super team in the way we may think of as a super team. I just want to say in the context that players want to team up with each other. And if there is enough available cap space, then that makes a destination appealing. Which makes the Clippers appealing. Yeah, we are seeing some guys kind of wanting their own situation. Quiet Leonard, Jimmy Butler was a guy who didn't seem to really want to team up with LeBron. I think the interesting question is going to be, would someone like Kevin Durant choose the Nets over a team like the Nix?

And like the Nix have probably more young talent, young cheap talent. So like maybe not this coming summer, but the summer after you could add like another star player to go and fill things out. But just in terms of an ownership situation, it seems like. Yeah. If you don't want to deal with Jim Dolan, like right down the street, you can go and and see what's up with our guy, Rodney Curix. Rodney Curric. You took his name and made it American.

Rod Curis. A guy, Rod Curis. Incredible. All right, let's move on. So the opposite side of pleasant surprise is most disappointing. And I have down here a pretty obvious one, the Washington Wizards, which Haley got a up close and personal experience with. It did.

Yeah, she went to Washington, D.C. In late December? Yes, December 27th on. And she spent some time with Tom Satteransky, our guy. Tommy. Tommy. As the Americans call me. We wrote a really great feature on him on the ringer.com.

You guys should go check it out. But I guess what was your life inside the Warriors regime? The Wizards regime? What did I say, Warriors? Warriors. Yeah, same thing. You know, honestly, like I said in the piece a lot of the times, the locker room was just empty.

But I was there when it was announced that Wall would be out for the season, which season ending foot surgery. The game before and a couple of games before, he was just out. And then they announced he was going to see a specialist. I don't think I'd put the Wizards as the most disappointing, though, because I had no faith in them at the start of this season. Just because a team has talent, and they certainly do have talent. John Wall has not looked great in the context of his.

his contract, nor has Otto Porter, in my opinion. Bradley Beale is obviously very talented. But just because a team has talent and potential does not in any way mean to me that they should have certain expectations. The Wizards remind me a lot of the clippers, the Lob City Clippers. And I just never expected them to become anything because year after year after year, we always saw where it ended. And there's just a very obvious ceiling that I think some people, some, I think there was a very obvious ceiling. that people ignored. Whether it was situation,

guys not liking each other, I think in both teams case, the Wizards and that Clippers team is true. But, I mean, it's the thing where I've always thought they just need to break it up. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, and for the Clippers, it worked out, right? I mean, sort of, in the sense that they finally decided to cut the court. This is best case scenario for the Clippers.

Yeah, of course. I don't know if, like, Wizards can get to that best case scenario so quickly. They've always had the talent. I mean, a couple years ago when they first jumped into the playoffs,

everyone was like, Wow, the guy, Wall and Beal and... Best Backcourts, right? Yeah, Bass Backcores. We said that for years, but it just never came together. So, Paula, where are you on it? I mean, just on the Wizards really quick, I think it is good to point out that with Beal being the number one option with Wallout, it's been pretty amazing to watch him. You know, he's had really good games in the last few games.

And I think, man, I wish there was a version of this team that did not give all that contract and kind of just went all in on Beal and had different pieces around him. But, oh, well. Well, I mean, not to also plug my piece, but to plug my piece. A lot of that has to do with Satarancy, too, because the style of play just absolutely changes. Sure. And I think that that actually speaks less to Satiranski than it does to Wall. Tomas is, like, first, past second guy, like, score if he has to. And so it gives a lot of the other guys on the team who are all put together, like, scores the option to score.

When you were there, did it seem like guys gravitated toward Beal? You know, honestly, it just seemed like everyone did their own. thing. That's interesting. Of all the locker rooms I've ever been to, it was very much like we're all kind of just doing our own thing. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, as far as other disappointing teams for me, I think it's not to take your corner,

but the Pelicans are the one of the more disappointed ones for me, not only because of how they've been the season, but we left off with such a good note. You know what I'm saying? Like, we left off with them sweeping the Blazers and, you know, giving the warriors some slight trouble. You know, it wasn't like they made them worried at any point. it was like, okay, like, this is a legit team. And now I don't know what to make of them.

Like, even seeing Meritage come back is going to be huge, but I don't even know if that they can reach that ceiling that they once found at second half last season. It all feels very bleak, and I hate to be the one to be like, I mean, we're just waiting for Davis to make his mood kind of thing, but that's kind of how it feels. Yeah, I mean, for a while now, the rest of the league has viewed New Orleans as the Anthony

Davis Incubator. It's basically just they're getting him ready. They're like the college feeder system, getting them ready to actually start his career. It's just a lot of, it's a slog. I mean, we've talked about this before. There's just, there's just no energy there. And I think it's interesting. I saw someone the other day was just like, wow,

Davis doesn't seem really engaged. I think that's just kind of how he is. Yeah. I think he's just kind of prone to seem like he's not all that interesting. I think he's the type of guy that needs someone to kind of like get him up for the situation. I always compared it to the way that Draymond Green is an accelerant for Steph Curry.

Like, Steph is kind of easy going, but when Draymond's around, he's like, oh, yeah, and Steph is doing all the throwing up the hand signals and beating his chest and kind of trolling James Hardin randomly in the middle of a game, as if that wasn't just to make a, like, really clear and obvious point. I don't know. I just think, like, they need a shot of energy. I think they can come at the trade deadline, but until then, like, they're kind of just stuck in the mud.

Any other ones that kind of jump out to you guys? I wrote down the Pistons as one, probably more because I like, I foolishly gave them some hope. And here they are last night just, just blowing it, giving up 40 something to Kyle Kuzma. Jeez. The pistons are very weird to me because on paper they have the talent to at least literally take the easy path that is the eight or seven sleep in the east, which is a terrible conference. Like, and yet they can't, I don't know what, like, their, their back court is very, very, very. very inconsistent. I think they need to break that up or just make some sort of switch there. But their front court is sort of fun. I mean, I still enjoy watching Blake, even though now he's a different type of player than when he was when he came to the league.

But as a whole, I just feel kind of depressed about them. Like, you guys should be taking the, you know, like it's literally a gimmie to take that seventh or eight seed. You don't even have to be above 500 probably. Right. A team like the Hornets, a team like the Nets, like they can go one way or another. but here they are just always above the pistons. It's just really sad when you set this goal and you put all your resources into just making it in. You can't even get over that low bar. I definitely avoid watching them all the time. A lot of it because of Blake.

Right. Because I'm so sick of watching him just back his way into the post and do his stupid theatrics and try to get the refs to call him. Did you see these interviews, by the way, he's been giving, leading up to his matchup with the Clippers?

Sure. He's over being known and being a celebrity. Know why you're over and being known is because you're in Detroit and no one goes to fuck about you. That's why. Yeah.

Like, talk to him about, like, two years ago and he was on these, like, comedy tours. Like, I'm this big, like, this dude. It's just a very weird and concerted effort to turn the narrative about him and he even has this beard going, and I wonder if that's just like to make him more look like an every man.

I'm out. I'm out, Paulo. All right. What's a beard like? It's just a beard. It's just the beard. No, but it's just like it's unkempt. and it's just like, I don't know, he seems like he's going for something.

I don't know. It looked okay last night. When I was watching them last night, I was trying to decide why I didn't like watching them play. And it occurred to me that it's because I knew exactly what this team was. And this team was never going to teach me anything. I was never going to see anything new with this team. Just trying to be, just trying to learn. They, I mean, I will never watch this team and see something new, whereas with even the nets, I will.

Yes. You know exactly what Andre Drummond is. I know exactly what Reggie Jackson is. exactly their ceiling. You're not in on Luke Canard? The newest, most exciting thing that they had was point blank, point Blake having full rain. And even that's kind of gotten old for me.

Yeah. I just know exactly what they're there. It's, you know, it's just like what I was just saying with the wizards, their ceiling is so identifiable. Yeah. There's no hope. There's no like inherent like tension or any sort of like drama even. Right.

And now even like they've switched up a little bit their style of play. Like they did shoot before. But now they're shooting like the seventh most threes. they're just not even making them. Yeah. You know it was actually the most disappointing thing for me? And like,

I'm actually relishing and saying this because I was out on them before the season. And you have them here as the most confusing team, but for me, they're just the most disappointing because they were supposed to be better

is the jazz. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they could definitely fit there. Because, I mean, we were talking about them as a potential two seed. Yeah, exactly. And I was like,

you guys need to chill. Like, there was not like a huge, I thought that we would see what we'd been seeing, which is a little Donovan Mitchell regression. And I think, you know, they, I think all of this analytics say that they kind of poised to make a run at some point. In the second half, yeah, the schedule is, you know, it's there for the taking. But I don't know. Like, I expected more from the team. And maybe that's just because of the defensive changes, which you wrote about, which also factor into

that. But they've been, they've been pretty disappointing for me. Yeah. I wonder, do any other teams fit the confusing bill to you guys? I mean, the jazz are the one that, or, atop my list. I'm Apollo. I don't think the jazz are confusing at all. Interesting.

Yeah, I just don't. I mean, I know I sound like a mom who won't pay for her son's black belt because she doesn't think he can get it.

Wow. This is a quite the analogy, is this something that happened to you personally? No, if I did karate, I would definitely

have a black belt, but I never did it. Okay. I knew I'd have a black belt. Right. Uh-huh. No, I just think it's pretty obvious

what's going on with them. Like, maybe they will have a late season, push, turn around because of their schedule, because the jazz have a habit of doing that. But look, Donovan Mitchell has taken a year of finding out that it's really hard to be an NBA player. It's even harder to be an NBA star. And he's under all the pressure that his team needs him to be the same type of player and the same type of dominance in the offense that the Rockets need hardened to be. Yeah.

And this guy's 22 years old. it's not speaking to anything of his future career except maybe accolades when we look back on it that he can't do that this year but that's what they need him to be that's how the offense is set up and he just can't be that this year.

Yeah, I think it's really interesting that a lot of the teams that we're talking about being disappointing or surprising or later we're going to talk about the Kings but the rookies from the 2017 draft class that had initial success and are now falling off among our disappointments

whereas you have guys like Darren Fox John Collins, even for the Atlanta Hawks. These guys are starting to pop, and all of a sudden, they seem like they're more farther ahead. It's a weird rookie class. I've never seen it swing so wildly this way. And Lonzo being right in the middle of that, where it's game to game, it seems like he's either a successor.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. In terms of confusing, he probably is up there. I mean, he has, like, one game where he shoots 50% from three, and then one game where he takes seven shots and misses all of them. And yet there's like glimpses of him looking like some sort of, of like modern Steve Nash passing type player that looks great and then you know he turns them all over a lot in the next game so it's a weird back and forth with him yeah the only other team

I had listed here was the Sixers and Jimmy Bellar who we talked about just mostly because game to game it seems like something could could happen where the entire chemistry experiment just like completely combusts um let's get to this last one quickly uh league pass poison the only created what I have on the list here it's basically the team you want to avoid we talked about this a little bit with the Pistons, but I would say the Bulls, for the similar reasons that Haley said, there's just like not much to unearth there. They even have young, exciting rookies and second-year players like Lori Markanin, Wendell Carter, but even they seem to have, like, been infected by whatever kind of toxic smog hangs over

this franchise. I didn't even want to watch after that entire mess came about. Yeah. With Jabari? With Jabari. With Boilin. Boylan. Yeah.

All of that wasn't even enough for me. I'm with you. I think him being there, Borland, like. there is nothing appealing to me about like I'm very interested in in Larry Markman, very interested in one with Carter, but until they like kind of get their house in order, if you will, like I'm not, there's no appeal. Do you guys watch The Bachelor? No.

Okay. So there's always every year, let's go Bachelorette. Okay. Just, you know, woman power. Every year there's always a guy who knows that he's boring, right? And he knows he has nothing to bring the table. He knows you don't want to watch him on TV compared to these other guys. So he goes above and beyond to be really like weird or douchey or like take some kind of stand. Just to get the attention to try to stay on the show longer. Sure. Great strategy.

It's the Bulls. I feel like that would be me and The Bachelor too. I don't have like inherently like interesting backstory to talk about. I would just be like, can we just like watch Netflix tonight? That's not how the show works. Yeah. So I would either get kicked off or beat this guy who's a try hard by definition. Now I'm really invested in a best rate with Justin.

Will you run the turtleneck? Oh, definitely. I think I could do some damage there. Maybe like a valour, like sports coat or something. That's perfect. Yeah. All right. Well, you're not the Bulls anymore.

You're like the Suns? The Suns, yeah. Yeah, I get the Suns. That's perfect. What a glow up, as the kids say. It's a bump. All right. We're going to take a quick break.

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We save the most interesting question of our first half kind of overview. for the second half of the podcast. In perk, because I think like every time we get into these sort of discussions in the office, I feel like ultimately this is the one that is the most energetic, the most lively. That's right, ladies and gentlemen. We're talking warriors like this. No. We're talking about the other team in California.

The most important team in California. Exactly. We're talking about the Sacramento Kings, who we are describing as the most interesting team in the NBA right now. And to do so, we brought in a little help. Riley Football himself, Riley McAtee. Welcome to the group chat. Hey, thanks for having me. Why don't you tell everyone your Sacramento King's credentials? Why are you a fan? Well, I grew up there. I was going to games there. Because we can accuse you of being a bandwagon. That happens often. Oh my goodness. There are, yeah, so many Kings bandwagon fans right now. We really just, you know, go back to the Warriors.

No, I don't know. I mean, I grew up around the Kings and they were really good when I was like eight or nine years old. So they were like formative for me. I was going to those games watching Chris Weber and Pager Stoyakovich, Flydivoc. Still watching Flydivoc now, interestingly enough. And you don't like Pity me and all those guys.

Painful decade, I guess I'd say. Yeah, it's been a rough go. Yeah, but... My sports fandom peaked at nine years old. It's been all downhill. But this season, maybe it's all worth it, all of that pain and suffering,

because I would say that they're the most interesting team in the NBA right now, but also like, I wonder if this is more rewarding, Riley, given all of the struggling you've had over the past couple of years. They've obviously had like the good years, but this is like a breakthrough. And I feel like that at some points can be more just special. It's definitely special. It's also just clear how low the bar is and that they are 20 and 21.

They have a losing record right now, and Kings fans are just like, man, this is awesome. Can't remember a season like this in years. It's been a decade since we've been this good. I don't know. In the Western Conference, though, having that record is really impressive. Yeah, well, I was going to say, I feel like it's not just, I mean, I think the cool thing about the season is that it hasn't just been Kings fans like, oh, this team is kind of fun and exciting and we watch them, you know, like, repeatedly. It's like the rest of the league is like loving watching the Kings. Yeah, to be clear, they are fun as hell.

Yeah. And they're young as hell. So it's kind of like, okay, you know what? Hey, we weren't expecting to contend this season, but we can kind of see the pieces of a future, not like title contender, but hey, maybe we'll be in the playoffs. We can one day get swept by the Warriors and it'll be great. It's great because what's unexpected for you guys for having this good season is also what's painful for other teams. Like at the same record, the pelicans, the wolves. They were definitely not expecting to have this out for the season, but in a far, far more depressing way.

Yeah, and that's the power of just hope and just being on the upswing rather than the pelicans who are clearly on a down swing, no offense. There's really no expectations. Yeah, that's the thing. It's the expectations. Yeah. Do you still feel that way or do you feel like now it's going to be a disappointment if you don't make the playoffs? No, I've, like a week ago was like, you know, I think we can have a good shot at the playoffs. I've now looked closer at the standings and we've lost four or the last five and I'm kind of like, okay, the Kings are not making it.

This isn't happening. I totally disagree with you. It would take a crazy run. There's just so many teams all bunched up there. Lifelong fan is past mistake. They have lost. It's not like this team has given me a lot of reasons to be like, oh, they're going to pull it out. They always do.

I don't know, though. All of these losses have been so close, right? like, I think, an average of five points. Yeah, recently, yeah. They have $11 million in cap space to make some kind of change. They are reportedly in talks for Ennis Cantor. He could totally help with one of your worst sections, which is rebounding. Yep.

And also, you guys play really fast and you shoot the three ball well. And that can just hang with anyone on any given night. Yeah, just to go over where they are right now, they're 20 and 21. So right in the middle of the season, they are. 10th in the Western Conference at a minus 1.4 point differential which isn't particularly good considering everybody above them has a positive

one and they're usually in the two's and the fours there. I don't know. I do see a lot to like about this team. I think Kaylee brings up a good point. They do have an extra move to make. I am both super intrigued by their best three players,

Bogdan, Buddy, and Darren Fox. But I also wonder if like over the back end of the season that youth and like that kind of lack of defense or you know defense coming and going will ultimately kind of be their downfall. Well you're already seeing it because they're throwing away these games. They have these huge leads and then they

just disappear. The Phoenix game is abysmal. Yeah it was but for a while though they were a really good fourth quarter team right? Like for a while they had a stretch there where they were actually finishing games so it may just be the fact that over such a long season like that youth that Justin has talked about is kind of just what

catches up with them which like I think it's fine That's just where they are right now. That's kind of the path is that they need to make one move. They're the only team with CapSpace going into the trade deadline next month. And then they need basically to do what happened in the fourth quarter over the first half of the season where they would kind of run teams off the floor in the final few minutes. They need that to happen for the season where they can run at this crazy pace after teams have played 60 games and kind of just run guys off the floor.

I don't know if it'll happen. They kind of have like every reason to go for it now. I think that it almost provides a little bit of clarity. I was just looking up, Kevin Pellon has something on the Celtics draft picks kind of going into the deadline here. It's supposed to land at 11th. So it's the type of thing where I don't know

even if you still had the pick, it would have been the type of thing you would have like pearl clutched about. There's a very clear direction with the franchise. And I wonder if that almost makes it easier because you're not worried about should we tank at the deadline. and just kind of go for it.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, if we had the pick, I feel like they'd still be going for it for sure. I agree. Because it's, it, like, we're not going to win the title. And so, you know, you'll see a lot of fans who'd be like,

well, you should just tank, get Zion, like, whatever it is. But this, it's been over a decade. And I feel like Kings fans are just desperate for any playoff games. Even if it's four playoff losses to the team that's 90 minutes down the road, it doesn't matter.

It's just get us into the tournament. Eventually for a team like that, franchise that has that kind of history as well, you have to learn how to win. Like we saw this last year with the wolves. They just had no experience winning. So when you have an opportunity to, you really have to go full throttle toward it. And I think it would be such a mistake for them to try to backtrack that and tank. Because we were talking even about Justin the Grizzlies and how it might be better for them to just do that. It's odd because they have more win now talent than the kings do.

But I would so much rather have the Kings go forth that makes so much more sense in my mind to You know what it is? It's the type of, specifically the type of win now talent because, like, the Grizzlies have are also facing that same reality where it's like, we're probably not going to win the title, right? So, and their players, their win now players are on the down swing, right? So it's about like the youth. It all goes back, I think, to their youth and kind of how that is their biggest asset almost. And so why not exercise it in trying to get some playoff experience? I mean, at a certain point, you have to stop rebuilding.

You have to these guys actually have to figure out how to win games. and I think it's 12 years they've gone without getting into the playoffs at this point. Who's counting? And so at a certain point you kind of have to lean into it. And I think their biggest advantage going forward is Deer and Fox. He has to be as good as possible because he's the kind of guy who could swing the franchise. I'm curious, though, in terms of favorites, where does he rank among King's like just favorite players? Like right now currently?

Just ever. Isn't it too soon? He's only had a season of playing like this. Yeah, I know. but I really love him. Yeah, it's too soon. I really love him. I don't know.

I mean, you can't rank him up there with the guys from the early 2000s, and I think probably Mitch Richmond's ahead of him. But, you know, where he is right now, it's special. Maybe a playoff will change that. Yeah. And I think he's the type of guy who would definitely thrive in that environment.

I mean, the obvious question, I guess, to follow up there is, like, does it make not having Luca any easier? Oh, come on. Come on. You know, I feel like that they would fit to and it would be awesome. I know there are some people who are like,

oh, they can't fit together and it's like, who cares? It would be pretty fascinating to see how they would fit together because they are both ball handlers. Well, I kind of feel like not having Luca there has allowed Deeran to be who he is.

I think they could coexist together, but we've seen in certain situations, probably most prominently, the Sixers, like you could put two guys who don't necessarily fit perfectly together and it still kind of works, but at the same time,

when those guys are separated, it kind of just makes what they do special even more special. And I feel like we've gotten the air in part because we don't have Luca there. And you've seen kind of some of their wings step up around him, particularly Buddy Heald.

I think it'd be probably better for the Kings if they had Luca and Fox together, but maybe it's better for NBA fans to see them both separate doing what they do. I don't know. I'm going to be bitter about Luca forever. Okay, good. I'm going to be better about Luca,

forever. Every time I see a highlighter or a stat, I just like slam my computer shut. But what a relief at least this year in the Deereen bumped up because I don't think Bagley would have ever, ever compared in terms of forgiving Vlauio. And now this is the most interesting thing to me now is that

Justin and I were talking about this yesterday, now you're a season and what is going to become of it if you guys could make the playoffs is on Vla-Day making a decision. which is not usually what goes well for him. Decision-making. We'll see. It's been a roller coaster.

What would you like to happen? I still think we need help at the small forward position and probably somebody who can rebound, like you were saying, it's sort of been the Achilles heel of this team in like their last few losses. Maybe that's a little bit of recency bias, but they are a bad rebounding team overall. They're like 26 in the NBA. And it's just brutal.

In the Phoenix loss in particular, I think they went the final three minutes without a single rebound. It was unbelievable. They definitely haven't poured any resources into getting big men. So that's... Yeah, yeah. We always could use another one, you know? Yeah, I think it is interesting just because I think a lot of teams are maybe probably going to go into the deadline, not looking to do anything.

It seems like it's very much a seller's market simply because everyone seems to be in the playoff race, particularly in the West. And I think a team like the Kings and the Pelicans, and as we've seen just recently with some of these minor deals, I think if you're willing to deal, if you're willing to give up some picks, I think there's like a huge market advantage. I think the Kings are in the perfect situation.

Not only is their first round pick gone, but they do have every reason to be good this year. And if anything, like maybe do they need another second round pick? Do they need another Frank Mason in there? Do they need another, well, Justin Jackson was a first round pick, but he probably should have been a second round pick because he's not that good. I don't know.

I just think it would be really interesting for them to go for it. And like to energize the fan base. That is a gorgeous arena. And it seems like they're still pulling people there, even though they haven't been particularly good of late, which is like super encouraging. But if you get into the playoffs and that place is hopping and then all of a sudden, I don't know.

I think it just pays dividends down the road. If they get into an age... I guess to go for it, though, right? Because if overreaching and then all of a sudden you're stunting the growth of this team by locking into someone, like you wrote down Otto Porter Jr., right? I think that is such a mistake. I think it makes sense in theory But I think when you think about the bigger picture

It doesn't because of that very reason I do think that Otto has had a bad season In part because of his environment But it's still a lot of money that I don't think he's He's likely worth or is playing No Right, when the last time you watched him and thought Wow, he's really really worth whatever the Kings would throw with him

And they have to throw something at him So that's substantial because the wizards have been so hesitant to get rid of any part of their big three. Yeah, he's definitely never going to be worth that contract. I guess the other side, which Riley you could definitely speak to, is like who's the last guy that willingly wanted to be a king? And now he would be traded there, but at the same time, we've seen what people who have gone.

Shumper loves it there. He loves it there. He loves it there. He loves it there. I think because Shumper, like, nobody else wanted Shumper, so he feels like in some ways indebted that they, like, lean into him is almost like their, he's kind of like an identity center in a certain degree. He's like, he is the veteran, I think, that they thought Zach Randolph would be.

Right. When they were in L.A. to play the Clippers recently, or the Lakers actually, I don't, I remember who they were playing. In the locker room afterward, like, Shump was just talking. And he's talking about the team. And he's like, yeah, he's like, sometimes I, I like bringing my championship to bring when things get tough. I was like, wow, veteran leadership right there. Love that. He's great.

I love him. Yeah, I'm less worried about, like, a big contract that, you know, the NBA is so hesitant about, like, a bad contract. and how it can be on your books forever. This isn't the NFL right away. You can't just cut guys whatever you want. It's real weird. But the reason the kings have $11 million, I think, is in part because we never have guys who want to take the money to be throwing that.

So I'm a little like, hey, if we trade for a guy who's on a big bad contract, who cares. Yeah, and it's becoming an advantage, to Haley's point. It's just they can absorb so much more money. A guy like Ennis Cantor, I don't know if he's going to make a huge difference, but that's a free rotation player that you get simply because you have the extra money. Who's been in the playoffs. Who's been in the playoffs? Right.

He's not forced to play in the playoffs. I mean, no, he's definitely not going to help anything rim production-wise. But I do think that there's a lot that he could bring. And what we were saying the other day is that if the Knicks would take off another expiring contract, then you'd still have money left over. Yeah. And I think specifically Otto Porter, I mean, we could talk about some other guys,

but I think Porter just gives them what they need right now. They're a little bit weak on the wings, as you said Riley. I like actually the core trio and what they've been able to do, particularly on the defensive end. That's been kind of a revelation to a certain degree. But I'm still not sold on Deer & Fox being everything on offense and also being their best perimeter defender. I think, like, as we've seen across the league that wears on guys, Paul George is really the only guy. I mean, second year, you know, that very well could be Deere and next year if he doesn't get some kind of help. Yeah.

And like we talk about this with the Sixers, right? that the window is Ben Simmons's rookie contract. They could add all these guys around him because he's so advanced. And Deeran, maybe not to that extent, but he's playing beyond his years and all of a sudden,

one or two rookie contracts. I believe buddy's still on his rookie contract. Bogdog on like that weird three-year deal. He's on a fairly robust contract. I just think also maybe, but Donovan is an example of why I'd be hesitant to put someone like Otto

next to Deeran Fox. Because we're not, he kind of needs to level out his career a little bit, what he's going to be. Look what happened, Donovan Mitchell. If they would have thrown the farm at somebody and Donovan's having a bad year

and then they're not as flexible anymore, but the expectations are extra high. I just think when you have a young talent, taking your time is the way to go. That's a good point. Granted, I understand the Kings want to win as much as they can as soon as they can because it's been a long time.

I mean, it's really a tie-road because Justin's point is very much like how the league is thinking, which is what Ellen Brand said, which is like Ben Simmons's rookie contract is though, is the window, and yet there's also another force of, like, patience

and developing young guys that's pulling the other way. And I find that kind of fascinating because I think the Sixers went with the let's win now mentality with the Butler trade, and I don't know how that's going to work out for them. So I'm obviously not exactly the same parallel with the Kings. To be clear, I'm against the Kings trading for Jimmy Butler.

Yeah, yeah, no, but you know what I'm saying? Like, that juxtaposition between those types of young teams is very fascinating to me. is a little bit different because his contract is expiring at the end of the season. Granted, they did have to give up assets for him that will not return. And, you know, maybe he could do some damage in the meantime in the locker room. It wouldn't just reset. But I do understand what you're saying about them also being win now.

I think that with a talent like Ben Simmons, it's much clear that that should be the approach. Yeah, that's totally fair. I mean, Ben, even though we do kind of bag on him a lot, maybe not Haley. But it does seem like... Yeah, how high did I rank him? You were pretty honest. And in your defense, it does feel like the national conversation

about him has soured him more than like his actual performance and statistics. I guess what Powell was talking about just in terms of like how do you best execute that one key move to take the leap is the king's like grasp on their window seems to be

more tenuous than anybody's. The fact that they are even close to 500 is just like a godsend. And I almost feel like any little thing can kind of just ruin this in a second. We were just talking on the way in here. Apparently, Dave Yeager, who's from Minnesota, got asked about whether or not he'd be interested in the Minnesota Timberwold's job. And he gave a pretty Dave Yeager response, which was, oh, it's interesting, but my focus is right here. Didn't necessarily walk away from that, probably

because in the past he's had a few issues with some of his front offices, first in Memphis, then in Sacramento. And it just seems like he's always one of these guys looking around and maybe he's only happy when he's like unhappy sort of guys, which I can relate to. Yeah, he's... But I think it's like almost hammering home the point that like the Kings probably should be all in on this because who knows when it could just flip the other way in a second. Yeah, yeah, no kidding.

He's only under a contract for next season through next season. And I feel like the moment that Minnesota job opened up, it was like, okay, probably want to ink him to a few more years because I feel like he's done a good job. I feel like speaking of Minnesota, though, that's a good example of why you shouldn't leap all in. Because they did with Jimmy and everything got messed up and they were counting on him being next to towns and Wiggins. And that being the team that's going to lead them out of this, you know, also decade long whole 11 years. And then all totally fell apart. it is pretty funny that you know not to like zoom out too far out but

the two teams that have been in the finals the last few years and two teams like that have won finals are because one has a transcendent player in LeBron and the other for a while there got lucky with Steph's contract and his injury that he had and was able to fit in other players. Both of them benefited from homegrown players. Sure yeah yeah no of course but in the sense of like we're like we're kind of like looking for the perfect situation

for that young team but but it just kind of is happenstance is what I'm trying to get at, I guess. Yeah, there's a lot of luck that goes into it. It's just really interesting. I mean, I guess the question is, just to wrap it up here, do they make it or do they not? I mean, I'm used to being heartbroken, so I'm going to say they'll get the ninth seed. Would you trade for Auto Porter? I think I would.

What would you give up for him? Okay, I wouldn't do anything that would jeopardize the long-term future of the Kings, but I don't think his contract? I don't think just having auto porter. Okay, the money doesn't matter to me. We don't do anything with the money ever. No, that's a good point. Just having Autoporter, I don't think necessarily would jeopardize Fox Boge Buddy,

but I'm not giving up those guys or like high picks or anything for him. What do you guys think? I think that I want them to make it so badly, but I think that I'm with Riley. I think he'll be just out like 9th or 10 seed. They're making it for sure. Yeah. There you go. Facts.

Wow. Love it. Yeah. All right. That's it for us for another rousing addition. And rollicking, as Paula would say, addition to the group chat for Haley, for Paula, for Riley, for Bobby Wags on the ones and twos. We will see you next week. Basketball is very good.

Basketball is very good.