The Ringer NBA Show - Have the New Bucks Arrived? Plus, More Takeaways From the In-Season Tournament Quarterfinals. | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 6, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos provide their takeaways for each team after the in-season tournament quarterfinals (2:13). Then they preview the semifinal matchups between the Pelicans and Lakers and Pacers and Bucks (49:27). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For all your fantasy football needs, check out the Ringer Fantasy Football Show with me, Danny Hifetz, and Craig Horalbeck. That's the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier. I'm joining me as always. We've got big waz. And I thought we would get Raja Bell in here, but I guess we'll have to settle for Rob Mahoney. Hey, Rob. You know, one day I'm going to get in the team photos. One day I'm going to get invited, you know, to the live show.

shows. But for now, I guess everyone gets Raja Bell instead, which, who am I to argue with a little more Raja in their lives? So we're referring to this, what is it, social media graphic that got put up by the boardroom in which they listed the top 10 Spotify

podcast, sports podcasts of the year, and they decided to put little headshots for all of them for the Ringer NBA show one. They found one of myself, which I got to be honest, they must have had to dig for that one, was because he's a superstar. But instead of Rob, they put Raja.

I'm aggrieved on your behalf, Rob. Well, not that aggrieved. You know, Waz put it out on social media that they did me dirty. You know, he had my back. I didn't see any such posting from you, Justin. I think I actually said no notes. Yes, that was the response. No notes.

That, you know, in fairness, obviously us and real ones sort of permeate the feed. we share the feed and they you know for whatever reason they put three people up there and not five

and so that's just how the cookie crumbled they know you only from your TV podcasting Rob that's why that's all hopefully that'll be a chart topper soon enough but in the meantime I'll slum it in my side gig

with you guys talking a little MBA talking a little in season tournament that's right what a past two days of in season quarterfinals play. We're going to talk about this, one step removed, a little bit more big picture.

We're going to go through the takeaways from both nights of games. So four games Monday and now on Tuesday. The first takeaway I have was, is that knockout play rips. This past couple of days of basketball was among the more exciting back-to-backs that I've seen in a while.

Yeah, these guys took the game seriously. And I don't mind sounding like a broken record. So long as these guys are playing hard and they're taking these games seriously, it's going to be a compelling product. The Celtics and indie game, obviously, being no exception to that. I just thought it was an excellently, you know, exciting game. I loved watching the sort of chess match happening between the two coaches as far as how they were going to try to mix up their coverages. And, you know, Boston at a certain point got, you know, kind of annoying in the kind of the only way Boston is annoying in some of their one-on-one, end of shot clock,

shock creation stuff, and Halliburton, which is funny we say that about Boston, because the last two big possessions by Halliburton, one, he gets a switch on our Horford, he just fries him, gets to the rack and gets filed. On the very next play, he gets another, he gets another isolation, and he's switching a four-point play. He gets hit on the three, knocks down the free throw, of course, and gets a four-point play. And that's ISO ball, honestly.

You know, it's this stuff that, when it doesn't work for Boston, we kind of kill them for. It just happened to work for Indiana in this game. Yeah, I thought we saw versions of those little trials for all of these teams. You know, the Pacers are going to have to overcome those sort of switching defenses. And that's been

a thing for Halliburton. Not this season so much, but last season in particular was tough for him to create against like one-on-one ISO switching situations. But we're going to need to see the sons overcome their lack of size, some of the lack of depth that they have in the current version of their team. We're going to have to see the Lakers pull it together enough offensively, and we certainly did.

We saw the bucks ascend offensively against one of the best defenses in the league, and we saw the pelicans put together a complete game. Maybe they're most impressive of the season so far and kind of summarily dispatching the king. So everyone is meeting their moment to this point, and it's led to a little. a field that I think has laid out pretty perfectly where you have these two established contenders, these two teams where we know the stars, we know the players, we know all the central forces involved, and then you have the Pacers and the Pelicans, these upstarts who are trying to prove themselves, too. It's a great fit.

Yeah, I like the Petri dish kind of vibe of it all to get to see the test case is for some of these teams that we'll probably see in the postseason. But I actually like the distinction between seeing different types of teams in the knock out sort of format one was obviously the Pacers that was very reminiscent of like a March madness sort of situation where you had the giant killer factor but also just the star player who was galvanizing his team over the more dominant team the favorites in that one but then you also saw last night where it was the Suns and the Lakers and obviously LeBron and KD have been through a lot of high leverage games they've been through three finals against each other at this point but

we've actually never seen them in a winner take all matchup. They never made it to a game seven. And so to see those two things back to back and nights was really interesting. I think the mix of different types of knockout play we got from this thing was really fascinating for me to watch. And all these games for the most part were competitive. You know, the bucks blew the doors off the Knicks. But even then we got the Janus versus Julius Randall duel. We didn't know we needed. But apparently we did. It was fascinating to watch. Otherwise, these were very competitive games. Played down to the wire for the most part. And down to, in the case of Sons and Lakers, Kevin Durant stepping into exactly the kind of walk-up three-pointer on the left wing, we've seen him hit literally over LeBron and the NBA finals before. This time, he just couldn't quite convert it. Yeah, the one game elimination factor,

I think really helped the team like Indy, specifically because their style is so singular. nobody plays as fast as they do, the sort of whirling, dervish nature of their attack. In a playoff series, I have no doubt Boston would dispatch these cats in like five games. But in this one-game sample at this part of the season, where, you know, Boston might not have a complete mastery of all of the tools at their disposal yet,

you know, they might be able to get exposed in a one-game sample here. like we just saw. And then, you know, on the flip side of that with the Sons and the Lakers, these two veteran-laden teams, it had that knock them out, drag them out, slow it down, grind to a halt, possession by possession. You know, LeBron doing his typical LeBron trying to dictate literally every single move that was made by the Lakers.

That was more of a traditional thing that we've come. we're used to seeing that type of game play out in a playoff fashion. And, you know, I thought the Lakers game last night was fascinating. Just because, you know, LeBron just took four threes, which again, to me, is just an indication that, like, he's taking it serious. He's like, no, I got to get to the basket. I got to post people up. I got to, like, put some effort into making things happen for my team. And so, yeah, I just, I thought it was great.

Yeah, the Suns-Lakers is the one exception so far where the better three-point shooting team didn't win. And that's kind of feeding into this, anything can happen vibe. Like, if you love a mid-major getting hot in the first or second round of the NCAA tournament and catching a powerhouse like opponent off guard, let me introduce you to the literal best shooters in the world. And let's see what they can do on this kind of stage in a winner-take-all one-game format. because right now the winners of these four games are shooting 47% from three. Wow. That's going to take you through these rounds.

That's going to take you through, right? Real Maker Miss League stuff. And man, the Bucks in particular just got white hot, scorching hot from three. Yeah. Well, let me ask you this, because I was someone who thought maybe the knockout style of play should have filtered into the earlier rounds. We should have dispatched group play, just like go and give people what they want. Now that we've seen both happen, do you think it's better to wait until the quarterfinals to give it to you?

Kind of like the Christmas effect where you're waiting and waiting to see this play out and then it's more special because of that? Or would you rather this be the entire thing at this point? I don't mind waiting. In particular, I think doing group play seating guarantees a slightly better outround prospect. Yes. I think you're getting, all this anything can happen stuff is fun. when you have eight good teams at this stage in the tournament. And if any of these teams win,

I think it's a positive result for the league and it's a fun result in terms of the games. But there are some not so great teams who could get really hot on one night and wind up bouncing the Pacers or the Celtics or the Lakers or the Sons before they would even get to this stage. You mean you're happy Detroit hasn't been,

hasn't gotten hot for two games? I'm actually... Detroit would never make the threes in order to get there. So we don't have to worry about that one. Not too worried about the Detroit Pistons. But, you know, I am worried about some of the other lesser clubs in the league. And you want to give those teams a spotlight if they can advance this far.

But I want them to earn it. I want them to earn it in group play and give us like a little bit of a precedent where you have to punch your ticket to get in. And then once you do, you have to earn it round by round. Yeah, I would have liked to have seen. I just like the idea that we give teams like Philly and Denver who didn't make it to the knockout round. who we've established for some of the best teams in the NBA, a better chance of making it to this, you know, winner takes all portion of the tournament.

And so, yeah, I'm definitely fine with the group play because it gives the best teams, the best chance to make it to this, you know, frenetic knockout round phase. One of the things I've heard going around to that I hadn't fully considered the benefits of from a player and team perspective, in terms of why they would want to be involved in the tournament,

why this would be a good reward just being alive at this stage of the tournament. Trip clubs? Well, there are a lot of extracurricular benefits, it turns out. And Wazz, as we addressed last episode, educating me on a lot of the inner workings of that world. But you get to get out of the NBA hamster wheel for a minute. You get to get out of the regular season grind of flying, you know, three cities in five or six nights. And you get to say... So, wait, Homo, you think it's a good thing

they put this in Vegas as an NBA event and not in Indianapolis, like the next big NBA event is? You think that's a good thing that they did that? I think the players certainly like that part of it. But I think most importantly, they like being out of the regular season grind for a second. And in a second where, like, all of us and a lot of the fans

are going to zero in on the basketball that's being played and on these four teams, there is like, there's a little bit more air in the building, so to speak, rather than just kind of breathlessly moving from one thing to the next. Just wait until they find out that group chat as a whole did not make it to Vegas, all right?

And they realize that they get to those live shows and the top podcast isn't there for them. I don't expect you to speak up on my behalf, Justin, when I'm wronged in a photo spread, but I do expect LeBron to speak up when I don't show up to a press conference. So hopefully he'll have my best. back.

What the hell is Rob Mahoney? We can't go on like this. All right. Well, why don't we get into some of the takeaways from the action then? I think at the top of the list is the Bucks, a team that, surprisingly enough, like, is 15 and 6, a half a game back of the Celtics, one game back of the best record in the league, but just feels off in a way. And part of that is because they're a completely different type of team this year.

They're more of an offensive team after years and years of grinding out games and winning on defense. Rob, how are you feeling about the new bucks at this point, particularly coming off of this Knicks win? Are you ready to say that like the version that could be pretty good?

The version that we thought after the Dame trade went down has arrived. I think they're getting there. They're getting closer, but I don't think they've fully arrived. And if anything, that speaks to how good this team could still be. I just think they have room left

to grow. But this was one of the most fully realized performances we've seen from the Bucks yet in terms of what their offense is capable of. And I think they've really course corrected over these last few weeks in particular and the balance of their season is starting to tilt in a big way, where in some of their most uninspiring games, they would be down double digits within minutes and they would have to score at incredible rates just to get back in the game. Now it feels like the bucks are applying pressure. They're scoring so much and they're looking lively enough on defense

that they put you on the ropes. And they're not going to be a great defensive team with this personnel, but they're more energetic. Janus is incredibly active. Maybe in this game a little too overactive at times. I thought he was really getting after it, trying to make plays defensively. Was in his head, fam.

Definitely was in his head. And so, yeah, there's a fine line to walk there, but if Janus is cranked up and playing that hard and working his ass off defensively in ways that can make a huge difference. And you're having Brooke Lopez, like, looking super comfortable swatting shots around the rim, stifling drives from guys like RJ Barrett. And you know what? Like Malik Beasley is not a go-to defender.

He's just kind of a body you throw in front of a player like Jalen Brunson and hope that they bump a little hard when they roll over him. Honestly, kind of is. But he's new Drew, man. What are he talking about? But at least he spares Damien Lillard from having to do that job in some of these matchups. And that's how you get 143 points, 37 points in each of the first three quarters. So obviously you guys know I was extremely bullish on the Bucks coming into the season.

And the reason why I felt that way, I felt like they would have an elite offense this year. That unit would be elite, meaning like every single game you can count on the Bucks to score quite efficiently because they could do it. in multiple ways. Like they brought back enough shooting. Obviously, we know what Dane does, both in one-on-one and pick and roll. Yonis has won MVP's based on his offensive production. Brooke Lopez, you know, being what he is on offense, I felt like they would be able to bring an elite unit to bear this year.

And finally, we're starting to see, like, they were good. They've been good on offense all year. But they're starting to look scary on offense. And the scariest part, I think, for people who, you know, are watching the bucks right now is that, one, they're still not running enough pick and rolls between Dame and Janice. I think Janice is not really comfortable as a pick and roll setter. He's so used to dominating ball possession that I don't think he's sort of found his rhythm as a pick and roll partner. actually, Brooke Lopez is kind of better right now as Dames pick and roll partner, but of course, you know, that muddies things up because Yonis can't shoot.

But I'm just saying, like, they still haven't even found that, which is going to, I think, ultimately be their most deadly weapon when it finally happens, when teams have to put two on the ball on Dame and Yannis is just running downhill. Because when he catches the ball on the move, even right now, it's so unstoppable. Which brings me to my next point about why I think they still have ways to grow. This Janus isolation shit, I don't need it. I think, honestly, Janice has kind of tricked us into thinking, oh, he's this foreigner.

He doesn't care about ego and vanity. Like, he's so different from the Americans. He doesn't care about looking cool as bullshit. The reason why he's taking, he's still taking these pull-up jumpers and isolating from 30 feet. and looking nasty. It's ego. It's not efficient.

The Bucks are not playing at their best when Yannis is doing that, especially not that they have dame. And so they still have stuff that they can clean up and get even better at and to be third in the NBA and offensive efficiency

while still having things that they haven't unearthed yet. And my last point, I know I'm going on and on, but I'm really excited about what the offense can do and why I contrast them with Boston a lot. Boston is still very three-point dependent.

If the threes are not falling, they're kind of done. And the problem for them is that their stars don't get to the line enough. They don't get efficient, easy buckets enough when the threes aren't falling. Milwaukee's going to get to the line, man. Dame and Yonis are going to get them to the free throw line. And so all of the things I mentioned, plus that dynamic, I just think their offense is going to be not going to be, not quite Denver.

Let's not get crazy. But damn close. We're not going to talk about the defense. Yeah, it's interesting you bring up the threes, though, because they did take 38 of them last night, and they made 23. In fact, it was the fourth team in NBA history to hit at least 23-pointers

and shoot at least 60% up from the field. And I do think you're right. A lot of the good signs are there, but I do think the three-point success has been booing them to a large degree. And I wonder if like the big difference is that some of these guys that they've been taking flyers on Malik Beasley first and foremost, but also your AJ Greens, your March on Bochamps. Those guys have provided enough and her. That's a Waz guy right there. A Waz notable.

Was stamp of approval? He's on the list. But yeah, I think they are just like kind of crushing it from the outside as the Dame Yannis sort of pick and roll or just. partnership comes the form. Yeah, that's kind of the balance of it is. And honestly, it's a big reason why their offenses felt a little bit more layered and a little bit more dynamic lately is they aren't running enough, as you said, was, like pick and roll between their primary guys, but they still run a little bit and they do, they do still

drive a lot and they do still do a lot of dribble handoff. And they're getting better at using those things to set up these tertiary options. and Janice and Dame are going to get shots up. Chris Middleton still has a lot of room to operate and looked really good in this game in particular. And Brooke Lopez is big enough that the ball is just going to find him. Like he's a big enough target. You're just going to see him.

But with guys like AJ Green and Marjan Bochamp, you have to be a little more deliberate about looking for them, a little bit more conscious of where their spacing is on the court. And those guys are getting better at sidestepping around the contest to still get threes up and not, just driving into trouble, which is something that I think a lot of role players can get in the habit of. So you're seeing a team that is, at its highest

levels, thriving with good three-point shooting. When these guys hit, they hit another gear that's very difficult for any team in the league to match. But was, to your point, when they're struggling offensively, the fact that Dame is getting to the line so consistently, the fact that Middleton can operate in mid-range, the fact that Janus

is always going to be a force, not just getting to the basket, but on the offensive glass. those are three great parachutes to have that prevent you from being a three-point reliant offense in the way that some teams, including Boston, can sometimes be. And I just love the idea that Janice, Dame, Middleton, or Lopez are always going to be on the court. When people were complaining about the depth stuff,

I'm like, man, even Chris Middleton is diminished as he's been made by injuries. if he's anchoring a unit, there is a structure, there is an idea of how buckets are going to be generated. Sometimes you see teams, I'm looking at you, Michael Malone, when he puts out his hockey lineups. And I'm like, wait, how is this, how, what's the version of this lineup that scores buckets?

You know, the bucks have that throughout every single portion of the game while letting their stars play regular season level minutes loads, right? And that's really exciting too. Why haven't we seen more Janus and Dame pick and roll? Well, as you were suggesting, maybe it's more comfortability. Jonas is not good at it. Janice has not been, that's not traditionally been his role. It's like at the end of games, him and Middleton doing that pick and roll thing inside of the three point line.

He hasn't been that guy setting the screen at 30 feet for a guy and sort of making a read that way, maybe catching it and then, you know, doing the four on four, four on three, excuse me, Draymond Green thing and making the right decision or just barreling to the rim. He's just not comfortable. That hasn't been his mode. His mode has been freaking initiator. And the bottom line is he's obvious. This is not a diss. he's not better at it than an all-NBA point guard, right? Like, it's obvious what he should be doing.

And I want to give a shout out to my man Nate Duncan, who pointed out that Giannis don't really got the best hands. It's an underrated part. Like, he's not really the, he doesn't have the softest hands. So, again, like, these limit his pick and role play as the role man. But I think that's the only benefit of this long-ass season. He's going to get better at it. But Adrian Griffin has to freaking tell him to run it.

Like, there was a possession, and I tweeted about this, man, because Julius Randall was giving this guy to business. Him and Dame are on the left side and go to run and pick and roll, and Yonis just scraps it. And he's just like, nah, screw that. Give me the ball. I need to isolate and post up. And he just threw it away out of bounce.

And it's like, no, Janice, re-screen, reset yourself up. Like, let's put these guys, let's put Julius Randall who ain't exactly Bill Russell in a bad position in pick and roll. But these are things he has to learn and has to be held accountable for. He has to let go of these bad habits, which, let's face it,

have been the downfall of this team in the playoffs. They're half-court offensive execution. You know, these are not the things that have propelled you to the top of the sport, Yon. It's like, you've been stinging it up in the biggest spot. So he needs to just, it's going to take time. It's not going to be automatic.

But I think he's going to get there. Yeah, the best screen. screeners in the league are not a set one screen and roll to the rim and everything goes great kind of process. It's screen half roll. It's not there. Come back up. Re-screen. Flip the screen.

Change the angle. You have to learn how to manipulate that in ways that Janus has not really had to do because he hasn't really had the lead ball handlers to work off of in that way. But we see glimpses. In particular, the higher the screen is, there was a sequence in this game against the Knicks where Janus screen for Danes. about near half court. And Dame gets trapped, because I think it was maybe an end of quarter kind of scenario or like a limited clock scenario.

Dame gets trapped. They want the ball out of his hands. They don't want their little brush with Dame time. That results in Janus, full head of steam, four on three. That's an unstoppable play. On this particular sequence, he dodges the attempt to draw a charge

and I think got an and one out of it. And he always has that in him, especially if you move those screens higher and higher up the floor. And I do think, to his credit, he and Brooke both are getting better at passing out of those roles. They're not only getting the ball

on the move and trying to make things happen, but you can see them looking for the shooters and you can see them looking for each other too. Jan is cutting off of Brooks rolls to the rim out of the pick and roll and vice versa in ways that that's going to be huge for them because if you think about where the bigs, like where Mitchell Robinson is on the floor

when Brooke Lopez screens for Damien the Lird Up Top. He's way out of the action. And so if you have Brooke rolling to the rim and then Janus cutting baseline, what's Josh Hart going to do against Janus in that situation? Wow, shots at Josh Hart.

Nothing. It's adversely, but like what is anyone who is sub-sevent-foot-three going to do? Well, this probably brings us to the other side of the ball because I wonder if part of why we're letting Janus be Janus,

at least to start the season, is because of how much they're relying him on defense. like Wads mentioned it, but he has a laborious-ass task on defense because nobody else is there to pick it up. I don't think Chris Milton's going to be that guy. We'll see if he comes back into form as some of the injuries get farther and farther away in the rearview mirror. But I don't know. So do we feel comfortable that like enough of this sort of defense, enough of Janus as the stopper is good because the offense is so juiced now? Brooke Lopez has honestly been their best defender this year.

uh, Janice traditionally has been a super active rim protecting help side kind of guy. I don't think he's been at that level this year. And again, it's early. It's still the regular season. I just think honestly, he needs to be better, um, in closing off and walling off the paint and being a deterrent of the, not even just contesting these shots, deterring these shots in the first place. You know, it has to be him and broke Lopez in that back line.

particularly in this regular season, getting those stops. Now, they're going to have to switch this up when they play against Boston because that's a legitimate five-out. And, you know, planning guys in the paint for wide-open Boston. You don't want those guys shooting wide-open threes. So that's going to be a bridge they'll cross when it comes in the playoffs eventually. But in the regular season, most teams you can absolutely thrive, just planting Janice and Brooke in the paint and manning that thing.

And I think Janice can honestly do more to be a deterrent, to be honest. But I think, you know, again, it's early. It's the regular season. There's still 60 games left to be played here, guys. And so I have the utmost confidence that they're going to shore it up. And again, once their offense is dynamite and elite, the defense just needs to be straight. Yeah.

You okay? It doesn't have to be world beating. Like, just be fine there. Not bottom 10. Like, come on. And they're getting there. Over the last couple weeks, they've been basically right around league average defensively,

which if they're average defensively and have this much offensive firepower, that's going to be impossible for, I think, the vast majority of Eastern Conference teams to keep up with. And then you're talking about really just them in the Celtics at the end of the day. So can the offense sustain at a top two and three level?

And if so, can you please just get to 14 to 16, 14 to even 18 defensively? I think that would be enough on a regular season basis. Yeah. Well, since we're talking around the Celtics, why don't we just jump to them? Because I feel like that's an interesting contrast to what happened with the Bucks the other night. Another team that's been gangbusters throughout this regular season, we talked about. them as the best team when we did our one month award superlatives, whatever we ended up calling them.

But that game against the Pacers just was the nightmare scenario in part because it just flashed back to playoff scenarios where the exact same thing happened. I think like if you were worried about the Celtics, that type of game just crept back up again and now Christops wasn't there and Christops has been such a critical part of their success

this early season. But I don't know why. In terms of like your worrometer, your worryometer, Like, where are you after that game? Like, are you saying this is a long-term concern or is this just more of a blip they can get over? It's complicated for me because on the one hand, I think it's just an incredible sign that they've already merged Chris Staps into their identity. And so much that they miss him that much when he's gone. Like, he's already become such a like, it's like, it's like, he's like, he's like, he's. He's melded so beautifully with what they do.

And I think that's heartening, honestly. You know, part of it. And Bill kind of said this was, I mean, that's nice. But like, if you're depending on the guy who's always freaking injured, that's a scary thing, too. So there's two sides to that coin. I think the offense with Tatum, one, what I've been highly encouraged about is, like, Tatum this year, it feels like when he sees somebody who he feels a size advantage, over, he doesn't even fuck around.

He's just like, I'm bullying this guy to the basket. Backing him down, not like, you know, his wayward drives where he's still, I'm still not doing the drives good enough for me. But like, he will just back people down and put them underneath the basket like he's freaking Yokic when he feels an inferior, smaller guy on him. And that's like beautiful to see, because that's going to be important in the playoffs. On the flip side, when he is facing up, I wonder if I'm I just want to see them shoot over people at 17 foot,

which is so, like, antithetical to how we think of basketball now. But for Tatum specifically, I wonder if it's just like, yo, get the space like Kauai, shoot your nice little mid-ranger because you're really good at that. Instead of trying to get to the basket, draw the contact, maybe turn it over, throw up a nasty layup, I'm wondering if I'm at the point where it's just like, yo, Tatum, just create your space and do your mid-ranger.

I don't know. what do you guys think about that? I think there are some situations that call for that. But as far as this game against the Pacers, I thought Tatum played really well. And you could see him hunting some of those mismatches you're talking about, Wazz, like Halliburton in particular, especially in the first half,

they were just going after him. This is not going to work for you, Haley. Indiana was doing a lot of switching, putting Hallie in the line of fire. And I think in the second half, the Pacers adjusted a little bit and got a little better with their help, a little better just like swiping down at guys like Tatum as they came by. and Bruce Brown is so good at that in particular.

And I think the Pacers defensively are going to be better off. The more they can get guys like Brown off the ball to be chaos creators versus having to be the designated stopper against guys like Tatum. But as far as Boston goes, I thought Tatum did really well. I thought this was one of Jalen Brown's best offensive games. I would love if he didn't take quite so many really hard shots, but he has chosen that role for himself apparently. Can't take that out of him.

Apparently you cannot, no matter how. how stacked your team is. My concerns are more about the front court. And I agree that losing Porzingis for any period of time has been illuminating as far as what this team really is, especially when you look down and, oh, Al Horford is not only our starting center, but absolutely crucial. And by the way, is 37 years old, having one of the lesser offensive seasons of his career, clearly in decline on that side of the ball. and the ripple effect of

now because Porzingis is out Luke Cornet who I thought played an inspiring game is kind of good yo by Luke Cornett standards this was a very good game but like you're asking Luke Cornett to keep up with one of the fastest and most explosive opponents

in the league stuff that's tough but that's what the front court is if Porzingis or Horford are hurt at all the Celtics are behind the eight ball all of a sudden and no matter how much perimeter talent they have Yeah, there's just such a steep decline from the starting five to what comes next.

And that will be solved in the playoffs because they're only going to be playing seven or eight of these guys anyway. It has been concerning because Horford does very much look his age. And I hope that they can measure out his minutes so that he can peak in the playoffs, whatever good version and best version is still in there, will be able to just be matchup dependent, play 20 minutes and then play five in other ones. You know, there is a whiff of warriors here where it's like if we don't have all seven Hall of Fame players on the core, it's like everything is in disarray. And that's the thing that just like kind of always annoyed me about the warriors.

And like, I get it. Everything needs to be there for Jalen Brown to take slightly easier shots for Tatum to get a slightly easier path to the room. That is the path that they have chosen rather than getting a lock solid ball hander like a Chris Paul to take that off their plate. they just want to make it easier for their two pillars, right? That was the whole theory. But you can see how much more crunched it gets when you don't have a Christops out there

because, like, you know, white and Holiday are awesome. But their whole thing is they're awesome because they're willing to just be sacrificial and do whatever is necessary in order to empower those guys. And so, yeah, tonight's without Christops, it looks worse than it should, which is, I guess it makes sense, but at the same time, it can't help but be a little concerned by that. So to me, the people that need to be making it easier on themselves are the stars themselves. Like, Jalen Brown had a good offensive night. He was, I think at one point he was 13 of 21 for 29 points. When the biggest stars go 13 of 21, they're in the 30s, y'all. They don't have 29 points.

If you go 13 for 21, like between threes and free throws, you're in the 30s. Palin Brown, who was just not going to go 13 for 21, he had 29 on that. Like, to me, that's the main problem. It's like when, and look, I'm not going to lie, underestimated the likes of a Hauser. He's a lot better than I thought. He played really well in this game in particular. Like, that looked like a real kind of playoff option that could shake some loose.

Yeah, I was like, damn, Sam. House of Mike. He's basically Beasley. I mean, they basically home grew Molyke Beasley. That's not the compliment I was looking for in this moment. It's more complimentary for Waz and I than probably for you. It's like to me the stars just have to be stars at a certain point. You know, Jalen and Jason have to be stars.

They got to get to the cup. They got to get, you know, they got to get runouts in transition. They got to, you know, post up a cross match very early on in the shot clock and get right to the line. Like, they have to do that to take this offense to the next level, in my opinion. I think that's what's going to ultimately do it. Now, if everybody's healthy at the same time in the playoff series and Chris Staps and Derek White are just, you know, they're just making them damn shots because God knows they can, you know, and Derek White is doing enough connecting on the offense event for them.

And Drew Holiday is making enough layups, point blank range for them, you know, then I think they can still do it ultimately, but that's what the, that's what the questions are going to be going forward. Also, knee Smith, revenge game. Hell yeah. Wow. Great knee Smith game. Man, honestly, in terms of everything we've seen this NBA season so far, the atmosphere at the field house after Aaron Neesmith got that dunk might be the moment of the season to date. I mean, that, yeah, it was kind of an outlier scenario, even in maybe a playoff setting, because, like the Pacers and that crowd were geeked up in ways that like I don't think we're going to see for the rest of the regular season man.

But that's what you lose with the neutral sight a little bit. You know, I'm sure the Vegas crowd is going to be mostly a Lakers crowd. But you lose this kind of feverish intensity around moments like that. Dude, it was the bench. I told me he was about to get a storm the court. I mean, that game was just crazy. And you got to credit the Pacers for, for just kind of mastering.

We're at like four seconds or less at this point. It's not even seven seconds where it's like Jalen Brown just like gets to the rim and falls. and by the time he's up and back on defense, Halliburton's already in a pick and roll. It's like it's just warp speed. And I just don't know how they do it so quickly. Yeah. And we'll see how it fares in this next round because them and the Bucks had a legendary matchup earlier this season where Yannis went for 54 because he is exactly the kind of player that the Pacers can't really guard,

although, yeah, the Pacers did kind of edge out a win by a hair in that particular game. So I can't wait to watch those two go up against each other again. Yeah. Let's talk about the Knicks just quickly, because I want to talk about the other end of that first game. In a lot of ways, it was a perfectly acceptable Knicks performance.

I think the problem is I say that throughout the season, not only last season, but I'm saying it this season. And I think the thing that caught my eye, in addition to Julius Randall, being able to hit every goddamn shot after missing every goddamn shot for the first month of the season was just quitting Grimes

after the game apparently reportedly, according to the reporters on the scene there, being frustrated about his role, just also being subbed out as soon as he misses a shot. And it just compounds the general sense I have about this team where there's just so much above averageness

just like competing against each other. And I hate to be a broken record wads, but it's just like how much longer are we going to do this, especially if the players themselves are the ones griping about their opportunities? Look, I get it. They are a team of scrappy guys, overachieving guys, you know, borderline all-stars that they're anchored by in Brunson and Julius Randall. But this is just what it is.

You got to be patient. Grimes is somebody who, obviously, we love here on this show. He's a legend at Vegas Summer League. But for whatever reason, Tibbs just isn't a fan. He might have to be an OB-topping type chop block where he might need to go somewhere else to ultimately fulfill what his destiny is going to be. But again, there's no trade.

out there for them right now to spruce this up in a way that will matter, meaning a bona fide NBA All-Star player. And so this is just what it is, man, a bunch of low spades, you know, for my spades players out there. And they're fighting for survival in the lineup. I don't know what to say. There's nothing to be done here. They're perfectly competent, if not great or elite.

And this is what that looks like in today's NBA. Yeah, you could consolidate some of these guys in a trade if you wanted to do that, trade two pretty good players for one slightly better player. The problem is I kind of like some of their bench lineups. And we saw kind of a smaller bench look go on a nice run in this game as well. I think it was in maybe the beginning of the fourth quarter or maybe it was in the third quarter. You know, you get some of the Villanova guys on the floor together. You get some energy out there.

All of a sudden, everything starts kind of clicking in a way that's fun and And it's a strength of this team. So do you trade out of strength just to consolidate, just to hopefully make some people happier? On the one hand, I think I'd be against that from a basketball perspective. But look, if Quinn Grimes is not happy with his role, and he's right to, I had the thought during this game that, like, Quinn Grimes has to not only be one of the lowest usage players in the league, but the lowest touch players in the league. They don't even run, like, token handoffs for him to just touch the ball.

He just goes and stands in the corner and that's pretty much it. And that's where it sucks in the games where Julius Randall is hitting everything. So he's feeling particularly emboldened and you're losing by 20 plus. That's kind of the worst case scenario in some ways. That's tough. That's tough. I think in the NBA, you need to be one of three things. You need to be really good. You need to be really fun like we just saw with the Pacers.

Or you need to have hope. You need to be rebuilding. You need to have young guys that people can buy into. Unfortunately, the Knicks are our good team. team, clearly, they're fifth in the east. Like, this works to a certain extent. They're good. But you're not checking any of those boxes.

So you're in this weird gray area where it's like, this is a good team. This is a respectable team. How much longer can the fans? And I guess to a certain extent, ownership and the front office, be content with good. I don't know. James Dolan just renounced his governorship. I don't know if you guys saw that. I did.

He's, yeah, he renounced his government. Allegedly. He's not, meaning he's not showing up to, you know, NBA Board of Governors' meetings and blah, blah, blah, blah. He was like the one person to abstain or vote against the Cuban sale or whatever. He's like pissed at the NBA right now. So it's not like there's going to be some incredible pressure from up above, you know, because in the past, that's kind of been what happened. The ownership will get like an itchy trigger finger and the nigs do something crazy, you know,

by bringing in a washed up guy with a name. So does he just live in the sphere now? Just moved in full time? Yeah. Bono actually goes to the meetings. He might be living in the bowels of the forum, you know, since he sold it to Steve Ballmer.

He probably lives in the forum basement paying rent now. But yeah, I wonder where the pressure is going to come from. That's why I say that. Like, you wonder James Dolan seems to be as checked out as ever, you know, with this fear nonsense that he's doing, which, by the way, from what I've heard,

is losing hundreds of millions of dollars a month, which is just like, who the Nepo Babies, boy, I tell you. It's just, you wonder, you wonder if it's the James Dolan of Pass who has been so hands-on. And so in, not even hands-on, I shouldn't say that.

In the past, he's been impatient with the people he's empowered. Because he'll empower them to do, whatever the hell they want. And then when the results aren't born of that empowerment that he desired, he's just like, all right, he starts agitating and people feel the pressure to do

something. I don't know if that's happening anymore. I feel like his attentions are divided these days. Wow, that's bleak. He's given up. Yeah, we're the good old days where we had Phil Jackson just talking about butts, you know? Oh, man.

We have this good team. God damn, man. We missed the old days. Yeah, how's it going, Justin? Right. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I assume this will just come down to when someone, a star be in war. I think you just got to be cool with it going down this way this season, unless something drastic.

I think they're going to just ride this out. And then they're probably, this offseason, they're probably going to try to do something drastic. Because, you know, a lot of players like Donovan Mitchell will have that much less left on their contract. If, you know, God forbid, Zach Levine isn't traded by the deadline, that will have become such a dire situation. We're going to see what the results of the Timberwolves as they're presently constructed is in the playoffs. And what that means for people like Carl Anthony Towns, there will be a more clearer vision as to their options. who they can just throw their lot in. They have the time to do that, you feel me?

But I think for this year, I don't know. Like, again, Zach Levine is probably the best or highest profile person who we know to be on the market. Is Zach Levine making this team materially better? He's not fixing their problems. Anything. I think they're almost too good for the version of the conversation we're having right now. Like the Knicks are a good team.

Right. I agree that they need a little more hope or they need to be having a little bit more fun even if we're not having a lot of fun because they're kind of a slog-it-out watch sometimes. So one of those things needs to tilt in the way you're describing, Justin, but in terms of the good spectrum

of actual basketball teams, they've been really solid. So what I'll say is just this. It's not that they don't have a, say, a SGA or Devin Booker or, you know, a Luca Donchich, obviously. Like, obviously they don't have that, but they don't have anybody in their building

who we think is on the precipice of something close to that. You know, like, it's not in their building. Like, that kind of player is not there. You know, Barry, RJ, as much as I've loved them over the years, nobody thinks he's on the precipice of some major star turn. So we talked out at a really strange place

where he's almost like a quality third option. which I didn't think and the predictive outcomes for him I thought it would be star or bust and somehow he settles in pretty good. He's absolutely not a star. It's not a great sign in terms of that trajectory though

was that RJ Barrett's having a very good season by his standards and it hasn't really moved that needle at all. It hasn't really been much more inspiring. Yeah, they're a good team but it's more of like a public discourse sort of thing. Like maybe we need to put them in the sphere

and they'll just be more fun and like seeing Mitchell Robinson set very hard screens, but just like all around you we'll do something more for the entertainment value. Can someone explain the sphere to me? Is Bono gonna perform at half time? Yeah.

I'm so baffled by giant screen but round. I'm just not seeing the appeal of the sphere, but clearly I'm missing something. Well, you need to look up the word immersion in the dictionary, Rob. Apparently. You will understand the appeal, brother. Well, I need to send somebody some links on historic

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See terms at sportsbook.fandul.com. Speaking of Vegas, let's talk about the semifinals, which are happening on Thursday. Was, I think, are you going to be an intendance for the semifinals? Yes, sir. Okay. So, Waz is going to be boots on the ground. Boots on the ground. looking to get the group chat experience.

Waz will be there, accost him, ask him for his autograph, try to give him some ones in order to fuel his nighttime activities. You'd be surprised. You might see it those establishments on a weekend like this. Well, the teams, if they are there, they've certainly earned the right to it. The Lakers and the Pelicans are going to be your West representatives. the Bucks and Pacers in the East. I have to say this is in my mind an ideal outcome.

Our good friend, Nick Fidel, tweeted out yesterday. And I love Nick, like, just one of my favorite people. One of the best. But he was like, Buck's Pacers, who's going to watch that? And I was like, bro, shut the fuck up. This is actually the exact matchup that you need because it's the contrast that I think you're looking for here. The old guard versus the new guard, young and fun. versus what used to be defensive-minded,

but apparently is just as much of an offensive juggernaut as the Pacers. But I think the balance was of the two matchups is great. Like I do think contrast draws interest. And I think this is exactly what the NBA kind of wants from this event. Yeah. And the Pacers, as we mentioned, they have a really exciting brand in style of hoop that's going to be fun.

And the box have been obviously lighten it up. So if you're a fan of offensive basketball, this is the game for you. I think the Pelicans and Lakers matchup is extremely star-studded. And that's going to be your more traditional postseason, if you will, type of event. The Pacers, much as I loved them coming into the season, loved watching them all year long. Just the prospect of Obie Toppin and some of these other cats trying to guard Janus just seems just dire. Like it just feels like they're going to get killed.

because even Miles Turner, who we love on this podcast, we've been Turner High forever. You don't want to put him on Yannis. He might get some, like, if Miles Turner's not in the game, if he gets too quick foul, like there is just no guarding this team. There's nothing. You have to put him on Brooke Lopez to hope that he could, like, actually play, you know, something like 38 minutes to have 38 minutes of real defense

or close to it, defense on the floor. It's just for that reason. I just think matchup-wise, the size. the physicality that the bucks can bring to bear is this going to be too much for the paces. So I think the bucks are going to ultimately end up in the finals there. And then the Lakers and Pels, I think it'll be tight. The Pelicans, every time we give up on them, they just start killing people again. So this might be the time where it goes back again.

I don't even know what to do with this team. I don't know. But I'm just going to pick LeBron James in a big spot on a big stage coming through once again. Yeah, I will never tire apparently of watching LeBron close out games that matter. Like watching him against the suns drive and control everything was so much fun. But Jesus Christ, the Pelicans.

Like my notes from the Pelicans Kings game read like the journaling scenes from First Reformed just like screams about mankind's capacity for change and like the swings between hope and despair and also some stuff about Zion's off ball defense. I am not a person who could trust the Pelicans. I am not. But if I was, If I was, I might note here that that game against the Kings was a pretty good reminder of who Ingram and Zion can be in games that matter. And Zion was as active in help as I've seen him in a long time.

Stonewalled a bunch of guys on one-on-one situations and one-on-one drives. Ingram was flying around the floor defensively, pulling down big-time contested rebounds and running basically the whole show to perfection. And if they're that team, that's what I want to see go against the Lakers. because when the Lakers are rolling, they're playing a control game. They're dictating terms with their drives, with their pace, with their physicality. And if you can't get out of that,

a lot of times the Lakers are just going to beat you. And so those are the sorts of challenges that are good for a team like the Pelicans where it's not just do you have enough talent to win, but how you respond to those sorts of manipulations. Yeah. It wasn't just Ingram and Zion in that game. It was also Alvarado and Marshall

coming into the game and completely flipping it with their activity. And it goes back to the whole thing. It seems like their identity spurs from the Herb Jones types, from the Alvarado types. And as frustrating as it can be to watch at times, as Alvarado flies around the court, just like trying to trip people up in some version of like a new age Chris Paul, like that really, I think, galvanizes them and gets them up for the opportunity in ways that they can't without them. And so that is a perfect contrast to what LeBron is going to do,

trying to manipulate possessions, trying to slow things down. I think these guys are going to be throwing themselves in the way of passes, loose balls and everything else. And we'll see if it works. As you mentioned, I have no idea on a given night whether the Pelicans are going to be the best team in the league or the worst team in the league. But it'll be interesting. I mean, I do think we need to talk about the Lakers just quickly here.

not only was the brawn masterful in that game against the suns last night, but him season Reeves, I might be a believer here. I think what happened possibly is that he just didn't have a big enough stage during the regular season. Once you get him onto the tournament setting, we start to see the author of old. The lights weren't bright enough for our guy.

Awesome reason. I think yesterday was a good example. That clutch three in particular is, What a ballsy shot. Like so much time still left on a clock where most teams just was like the shot we want is the shot that comes with 0.5 seconds left on a shot clock,

which I think is often dumb. You should be trying, even while you're up, you should be trying to take good shots. Grayson Allen gave him even the slightest bit of daylight off of that pick and roll and he just rose and fired and that shit was a dagger.

You know, he turned the ball over, even though they were awarded the timeout, quite erroneously, in my opinion, because he was trying to flop. So we got to stop with the flopping. That's what it was. Him trying to sell the flop resulting in him losing the ball was a perfect basketball moment. If he would have just kept his dribble, even if he picks it up, he's doing all of this. LeBron gets to call his time out. Yes.

Instead, he puts his ass out. The Chris Paul famous ass poke out tries to get the guy. guys crouched or run into his ass and draw the foul that way and the refs smartly didn't call it and then they ruined it by erroneously awarding the Lakers a timeout.

But whatever. I mean, you know, we didn't talk about that screw job, but it was a messed up call, obviously. We don't know that it's guaranteed the Sons would have won from that a better outcome, but like they got screwed there. I think there are a lot of reasons the Sons lost that game

mostly the fact that they turned the ball over like 25 times and gave up 20 plus offensive rebounds. I think the Lakers took 27 more shots in that game. That's probably why you lost, but you hate to see such an obvious blown call at the end and make no mistake. That was a dozy. And the cool thing is traditionally, just to get back to the game, Zion and Ingram get up for these Laker games.

They really relish playing these guys, you know, ever since Zyons. I guess he gave clutched a cold shoulder or whatever. You know, LeBron has had, you know, in the media, I'm sure in like behind closed doors, he's nice to the guy, but in the media, I remember somebody asked him, do you have a relationship? What kind of relationship do you have with Zion? He said, none.

I don't know. LeBron speak for like, yeah, he's not part of the clique, you feel me? So I think that the energy is going to be high for this one. first tournament action for Zion and the NBA, obviously, he went to the NCAA tournament, but since then, hasn't made it there. Tyre's Haliburton. He's talked a lot about how much these games are important because he hasn't won anything, which really crystallizes this thing. I mean, people have made a lot of it, but I think it bears repeating, like he played his second national TV game the other night against the Celtics, which is wild to me because

the Pacers were scrappy and halfway decent last year. And obviously, I think this year, everyone expected them to be more of a spectacle, if not just very good team. And so, yeah, seeing that, especially in contrast to LeBron after that game where they went against the Sons, we were joking about it afterward, where Ellen LaForce was asking him what the NBA Cup means to him. And he's like, you know, it is what it is at this point. And so like, at the very least, like, maybe the scrappy young upstarts will spur him to, like, really go for it in this one. Justin, 40 minutes in that type of game for a 40-year-old. I understand why he's just like, bro.

Whatever, man. She asked the question. It was like you've won a million NBA championships and MVPs and finals. And gold medals. What does the NBA Cup mean to you? And he's like, I mean, I guess it's pretty nice in comparison to these amazing awards that I've done over the past 20 years. But, was, I took it the other way. Like, let's not pretend like the Lakers don't want this.

And that LeBron doesn't want... They clearly do. He just played 40 minutes, as you said in this game. The most he's played in any game this season. It seems like he wants this thing. And you know what, LeBron, it's okay to want things. It's okay to say that you want this. It's okay to be a try hard, even in the NBA.

You know, it's not a championship, but it's another piece of hardware. I actually think in a certain point, it's a disservice that keeps saying over and over again. They're like, oh, these guys want this. This is the best of the things. Like, they are trying to... so much harder because like I watch a ton of basketball. I watch every single night since the season started multiple games and like these guys do try hard. Like the idea from the casual fans or the non fans that like these guys aren't giving busting their ass on individual nights are like it's bullshit.

Like I think they are playing really hard and to that point, Janus was basically like, oh, we make money off of this when he won his game. And so like, yes, is there a little bit of extra juice here? And is that fun certainly? But I don't know if it's like. They're going, it's a completely different product. We got to be real, though. The Nuggets, the Lakers, they don't play hard every single game. They don't. I think LeBron has had to because his team has been so reliant on the game.

But he hasn't had to tighten the screws like he did against the Sons. The takeover mode down the stretch was pretty different than what you'll see from an average LeBron game, even a competitive one sometimes. I would say that like in a game like the Sixers where they're out of it, he will throw up the white flag. Sure. But a lot of these games have been competitive and he has been really like into it.

Oh no. I'm not saying he hasn't been good and even dominant in those games. I'm saying he's not doing the every single possession I am maximizing our advantage in the way that he did against the suns down the stretch. He's not.

You're just not giving Reeves enough credit is what's happening. Is that what's happening? When you turn on O KC, when you turn on our, Lando, they're playing 150 miles an hour all game every single game. You know, it's just some of the older teams like Bucks included, we just talked about it, go down every single game.

They don't go hard every game, every possession. They don't. It's the young guys that do. And that's why I'm not surprised that the Pacers did what they did to get here. All right. On that note, why don't we wrap it? Was, enjoy your time in Vegas. You know I will.

That's the real rich get richer. Was in Vegas is something priceless. We look forward to your dispatch from the scene on Sunday when we will reconvene to talk about your time in Vegas, but also the finals of this whole shabang. So thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back then. We'll talk to you later. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.

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