The Ringer NBA Show - Have the Sixers Found Themselves? | Group Chat

Episode Date: May 3, 2019

We give our instant reactions to the Sixers’ convincing Game 3 win over the Raptors (1:30), before bouncing around to the other Round 2 series (21:00). Then, we go over some of the offseason news that has gotten swallowed by the playoff churn, including Monty Williams’s and Ty Lue’s impending coaching hires and Gersson Rosas’s new gig as GM of the Timberwolves (35:43). Hosts: Justin Verrier and Chris Ryan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Sixers should trade for, Landry Shannon. The playoffs are better without LeBron. Basketball is very good. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the group chat. I am Justin Verrier with me, sitting across from me, the OG John himself.

Yeah. Coming up after the triumphant Sixers win, it is Chris Ryan. What's up, man? I'm feeling very gritty. Yeah? Are you feeling grimy and gully as well? Yeah, I mean, like, it was a really nice feeling moment

with Deshawn Jackson at the game, Alan Iverson at the game, Bill at the game. There was a lot of Philadelphia icons in attendance, and it was like a pretty, I think, definitive Philadelphia performance. I'm going to try and, like, not be super fan ding-dong about it. Like, I'm trying to be objective. Because right now on Twitter, it's like, what, 747 on the West Coast,

there's a lot of crowning going on. Yeah. A lot of crowning going on. Like, dudes are just like Zach tweeting. Like, that's like a identity-forming performance. I saw our buddy, Mike Levins, say that's Warriors-esque. You know, so it was a pretty definitive victory. That seems extreme.

I'm just saying what I'm just reporting. Considering what just happened in the first two games. But yes, this game was a triumphant, pretty big statement win for the Sixers. They won 116 to 95 in game three against the Toronto Raptors that puts them up to one in the series. The biggest thing is just Joel Embed.

Yeah. Last game, he was dealing with some, what do they call it, gastron, gastro. Gastro distress. Let's just put it that way. Okay. Yeah, I mean, he called it the shit. It just means he has the poops.

Which, you know, it's tough to play through. I'm sure. As we know. But he comes in in this game, seems totally fine and dominates. I think fine is an understatement. Okay. I thought tonight was like Shackian. Shackian.

Well, both from a domination standpoint, but also from like he turned the Wells Fargo into WrestleMania. Well, you said this at one point in our Slack that this is what happens when you have a center who's an advantage, not the type of guy who gets played off the floor. Yeah, I mean, for most of the, I feel like the last three years, the playoffs have been a story of slowly playing big men off the floor, whether it's Gobert, Roy Hibbert, you know, even Stephen Adams in the Portland series, this last series, you know, and I think not that M.B.

would ever be victims of something like that because so much of the Sixers' offense runs through them, through him. But this was just, I think, because he had his outside shot going, you had to respect him all over the floor, and then he just turned into a force of nature. Yeah, when he plays, he's been excellent this postseason. But even in a game like this, they sat him late because the game was in hand. But he only played 28 minutes, but in those 28 minutes,

he just like completely warped the way the Raptors really wanted to play. There was that really kind of notable play toward the end there where Pascal Seacom tried to go at him, tried to dunk over him, and then B did not move. And I think that's what you have when you have a player like him. I don't know. Are we at the point where we want to say that they're in control? No, I don't want to do that yet.

There's been playoff series in the past. I kind of talk, I always think about some of those thunder victories over the Spurs that we had this decade, where the Spurs were like this finely tuned Buzzsaw, and then the Thunder just out-athleticked them. They were just longer, they were faster, they were spring year. I don't want to say that just yet about this series, because I just think that this is going to go seven. I just have a feeling it is.

But I think the one thing that happened here is that one through 10, the Raptors are easily a better team than the Sixers. But if you want to play essentially six, seven guys, you know, it's eight, eight guys, but Greg Monroe's not getting a ton of minutes. It's basically eight on eight. Sixers are better, you know, at least tonight. It doesn't help that the Raptors bench just looks really thin.

Yeah. At this point, not having O.G. and Noby and then trading Dilan Wright and Jonas Valentuna said the deadline, all of a sudden they look super exposed on that end. And I think the Sixers are a particularly bad matchup for everyone outside of Kauai Leonard. He thought Mark Gassal was going to be an advantage. And I think a lot of people assumed that when they made that trade for Gassal and kind of sacrifice some of their depth in that trade with Memphis. And B for tonight, maybe. Exactly.

Yeah. You go up against Al Horford in the playoffs. You're going to go up against Joel M. Bid. If you want to go to the finals and improve something to Kauai, you needed that guy in there because, as we've seen, Sir Gapaka hasn't done much of anything either. But Gassol just looks lost at times. and you thought he would be an advantage on the offensive end and he's not even that. He was two for six tonight.

It just seemed like they were overpassing a ton the raptors, which is great to see. Well, they were also victims of the Sixers' length. You know, the Sixers are so big that they can, I don't know if you want to say like they cover ground more quickly, but they were staying home and all that ball movement was still like they were not getting the open shot that usually comes at the end of it.

Right. And it doesn't help that guys like Fred Van Vliet who get forced into a situation where They are the only guy. You can't just go and turn to Dilan Wright or even Norman Powell, who has had some moments throughout this season, but by and large, it's just not a guy you want to have to rely on.

And Lowry and Van Vleet in particular look like their fifth graders on the court against some of these sixers guys. And this goes back to your point, where the five or six guys or seven guys when James Ennis and Mike Scott are both on, which in this game they both played particularly well. Yeah. They're just like monsters.

And there's no way to counterbalance. that you have to be able to out shoot them, and the Raptor shot seven for 27. Yeah. They're just not prolific three-point shooters. And so what you're relying on is Kauai Leonard. And Kauai was incredible. There was at times at this game where we were legitimately comparing him to Michael Jordan. There was Jordan, yeah.

I mean, we're not trying to be sacrilegious as much as it's just that feeling of metronomic scoring consistency throughout a game, where he's going to get his eight a quarter, and then when the chips are down, really go for it. There was a couple of points here. I mean, the Raptors didn't have their outside shooting going early on, and I felt like they had made a nice little run in the second quarter where they would just either whether it was in transition or just getting like five, six, eight foot shots,

just getting closer to the rim, getting shots that they felt like they were comfortable going in. But yeah, they just didn't ever seem to be someone. Seacum wound up, I think, with like 23 or something like that. But there were nobody else stepped up. And on the flip side, for the Sixers, I think it was like early in the third, their starting five, we're all in double digits.

And if anything, it was like there wasn't enough scoreboard for everybody. Like, if they're all playing like that, when Tobias and Ben can have a quiet, dazzling night like that, I think almost anybody in the league is in trouble. Now, the really, really, really big test, we've seen people saying this online. I think we could talk about it right now. It's like, this was Sunday's moving day, man. Like, if the Raptors don't show up on Sunday, it's a pretty, pretty huge indictment on this entire experiment. Right. And I mean, we've been saying this entire season that the Raptors are this collective and the Sixers have leaned in as the season has gone on more into a couple of guys.

But on the past two games particular, you've seen what someone like having a Jimmy Butler there does for you. Maybe he breaks the offense way too much. Maybe he isn't as much of a defensive force. But in game two, he pretty much won that game when they just needed someone to turn to in the clutch. You've seen the Raptors on the other hand, yes, they have Kauai, but who else are they turning to? and by making the trade for Gasol, I almost wonder if they thought that he would be more of a factor, especially when Embed, like in a series like this, when Embed isn't in there,

they can go down to him in the post and he could sewer a bucket. But that's not working. And so you're pretty much reliant on Pascal Seacum, who just a few months ago became a guy, became a guy you can throw the ball into and he can make some stuff happen. And a guy like, in a night like this, he just didn't have it.

And it's almost like we're putting, too much pressure on him to be Jimmy Butler. He kind of reminds me a little of the early assent of Paul George. Where, like, he has that kind of two-way dynamism, but, like, you can't necessarily count on it every night. You know, like, his per game numbers are really good. And it just seemed to get a little, he seems to shrink a little bit tonight. Now, he, I don't think that trip, like, those guys know each other.

They seem pretty cool with each other afterwards. Like, I know that people are going to debate whether he should have been. toss for that or whether that was intentional. I don't think he was trying to hurt and beat. I think that there was a couple of plays where things were getting a little chippy. We had the Kyle Lowry. Potential ball shot. Ben Simmons

ball shot of Kyle Lowry. Kyle Lowry butt chipped a guy into the, I think it was Ennis into Deshawn Jackson at one point. Lowry was kind of doing the Chris Paul routine without the Chris Paul numbers. Not that Chris Paul's numbers are so sensational right now, but he kind of needs to step up.

Like he had a relatively bad three-point shooting season this regular season. I think he was at like 34%, but he's shooting at something like 28% in the playoffs. And he's kind of also like, if you're talking about guys who need to step up and help Leonard, Lowry, there's too many guys on milk cartons for the Raptors.

Right. There's Lowry, Gasol, and Ibaka, and they're not going to get past the Sixers with just Leonard and Seaco. But if it keeps going this way, the Sixers can start keying, like they can basically start keying on these other guys and be like, well, if Leonard wants his four,

40, you can have them. We'll just shut everybody else down. Yeah. So, Lowry was 2 for 10 tonight, 0 for 4 from 3. In this series, he is 2, 4 14 from 3. It's just, I don't know what to do with Kyle Lowry at this point. We've been saying this for years now. He's clearly an effective player. He was, when Kauai got there, he made a clear shift in how he played. Being more of a distributor, being more of the guy that fills everything in and then Kauai is out, maybe playing a little bit differently. And to his credit, he was, he did that despite the fact that the Raptors kind of got rid of his best friend and someone who's close to in a pretty savage off-season move in order to try to take this next step.

I just, he's 33 now and expensive. And expensive. And so you've got to start looking around. I mean, I feel like every game for the Raptors is going to be just this big question of did they prove themselves to Kauai? And I know that Raptors fans, we've talked about this. Isn't that so interesting, no. Well, no, but going into these playoffs, I don't, I think.

that for as much as there is some scuttle butt and there is some scuttle butt that that Kauai is not long for Toronto because it's just like of a lifestyle choice. I feel like we were going into these playoffs looking at Toronto as this much more cohesive and stable unit and the Sixers were the volatile ones. The Sixers were the ones that we don't even know if Ben and Joel get along, much left if Jimmy's going to stay, much less if Tobias is going to stay, much less is Breck going to be there next year. And now you're in this and it's like, you know, the Raptors are looking like

the guys who are strangers. the Raptors are looking like they're the ones who were learning how to play with Gassal on the fly. And, you know, I'm not even speaking from the perspective of Philly fan right now. I think it's like a really crucial point in the franchise of development. It's not, like, it's, I thought it was probably pretty thin, but Maasai got tossed into the wizard's president job, the GM president job. So it's like into the middle of that. So it's a little bit of a, like a tenuous situation right now. Yeah.

As it is for Philly. I mean, like Sunday could be a completely different, get. day and like if Embed doesn't show up or you know that any number of things could happen in this series can go to two two. Yeah and that's the one thing that I did want to bring up there that JJ Reddick got stepped on I believe just by Kyle Lowry at a certain point and it looks like he may have turned his ankle like may have been the type of thing that

even if he could keep going would have diminished like what JJ did he ended up coming back to the court and seemed fine he actually played better than he has usually five for nine three for six from three point land but those type of things I'm still really afraid for the Sixers more than any other team because their team is so top-heavy that losing a guy like JJ and especially a Tobias guys that they're playing like an absurd amount of minutes in this post season. Oh, it's completely hanging on by dental floss here. Like that's the word. I mean, this is the dice roll. It's like if any one of these guys gets hurt, I don't think that they have a shot against the Raptors much less anybody in the next round.

In a blowout game, they played Tobias Harris 37 minutes. They played Simmons and Butler. 36 minutes. So let me ask you this. We have such like an interesting, like the recent history on Kauai is so interesting because there's the season that he was robbed of,

the Zaza year, where it was like he was arguably the best player in the NBA, Zaza steps under him. We miss out on that Warrior Spurs clash that the Spurs felt like they had been,

they were completely calibrated to push that Warriors team. It seems like a lot of teams are like, we've calibrated ourselves to beat the Warriors and we were robbed of it, you know,

in some way or another. It's something with the Rockets now. And then Kauai essentially sits out the next year. Right? Yep. Nine games. And then orchestrates a trade out of San Antonio. He gets Delta Toronto.

And they've been very kick gloves with how they've handled him this year. He hasn't played a lot of back-to-backs, a lot of load management, a lot of just making sure he's comfortable. And he's obviously like taking it to another level in terms of the box score in the playoffs. But like, what do you think of him as

A1 guy as the alpha on a team as the dude who's like do you think that he it's impossible to know I don't want to play body language doctor but like if we can just get inside of it a little bit like did you see a lot from Kauai that was like he can pull these guys over the hump? Well let me ask let me answer your question with a question if

everyone around him wasn't the Raptors it was the Clippers how much better would you feel? I don't know I would feel a lot better because I'm looking around at what he's got and he's got Kyle Lowry who's shaky from game to game in the playoffs, I would rather have like a Lou Williams, a Pat Beverly, a guy who at worst is going to get up under the skin of like a JJ or someone. I'm trying to think of the

right analogy here. And it's almost like, Kauai is the race car, not the pit chief. Okay. He's not the mechanic. He is the car. And he needs to be in a world in which like there is almost like someone or something, whether it's like the institution of the spurs or the culture of the spurs or whatever you want to say or pop or the Manu Tony Tim ghosts that are around that team. And that's the one that's like pushing him in the right direction. He's just like, point me there and I will get there in the most efficient, breathtaking way possible. But he doesn't seem to me like a guy who's going to be like, hey, snap out of it.

Do this, do that. Like, I mean, he's communicating. But I think because of his quiet nature, there's like a little bit of a difference than the way we kind of look at a Dremont. You know what I mean? And Nick Nurse is a first year coach. Toronto is basically a new team with Lowry being the major holdover

from last year's squad and Lowry's playing poorly I want to know who is the crew chief there who's the guy who's like guys like get your head on a swivel let's go yeah he needs a dream on sixers have like too many of those guys actually to their to a fault right they've got Jimmy they've got Joelle Jenna Bolden almost for somebody no but they've got a lot of dudes

who are like chatty and volatile and emotional, but they're out there. And like, I mean, it was probably one of, I think we were commenting while we're watching the game, one of the better miced-up segments we've ever heard with like Jimmy screaming at Joel to take more threes. I mean, there is a little bit more like,

I don't know, I don't want to, I'm not criticizing Kauai for not being emotional on the floor, but I wonder whether or not Kauai specifically is like everything you want from a number one option on a basketball team except for that one intangible thing. Well, I guess it depends on like, what's the value of that? I know that this is just like a big over. Like, how do I know how the chemistry of a team is going to wrap around?

But do you think I'm off on this or do you think that there's something to what I'm saying? I don't think it mattered on the spurs. Yeah. I mean, maybe because Pop fills that role for you. But I think it's easier to find that an emotional leader than someone who can get you 33 points can get anywhere else he wants to go on the court. Sure. In terms of a skill set, I think Kauai is just among the most malleable. superstars in the game today.

And even though his shot, especially from three, has been a little bit more flat, you've noticed, like, when he shoots and he misses. Their line drives, yeah? They're line drives,

and they miss short, which I'm a little bit concerned with, and we've been talking about this for a lot of. Why, because you think that's the quad, or you think he's just tired? I think he's been sapped of some athleticism. I think this isn't a unique observation.

Like, he doesn't get up for donks as much. It kind of reminds me, it's not a one-to-one, but there's a little, like, Westbrookian, like, he's playing a little bit below the rim now. He reminds me a lot of, late career Kobe before he blew out the Achilles,

where it's a lot more just like on guile and like savvy and just like being the smartest guy on the court who just like knows where everyone's going to be and can get into his own spaces. I haven't seen his shot chart tonight, but he's been like feasting in the mid-range too, which is like very smart, but... Those are the shots available and Kauai is going to get you those shots.

And if you need a number one, and you need him to be ISO Kauai because Pascal and Kyle Lauer, aren't giving you what you need. Kauai will fill that role without making it that big of a deal. That's what I'm saying. That's like the that's like the eight a quarter

like you're never going to be out of it if you have him because he's going to keep it around 11 or 12. I'm not trying to like read too much into it and I think that this is a guy who after like five articles were written where it was like he's the Terminator, he's a robot, he's just like the Spurs bot.

Like it kind of just we just told ourselves that story and believed it And clearly that's not all of what there is to him. But I'm kind of like just watching these playoffs and watching these different guys, especially with no LeBron, now no Westbrook, the personalities kind of dropping away

and looking for like new personalities to merge. There's not like, dame seems bigger than like even his numbers. You know what I mean? Dame is like, Dame is like an avatar for that team. He's almost like a totem to believe in. I don't know if I think,

I don't know if Leonard is that for the Raptors. Yeah, and I do wonder, this probably isn't the best test drive for that, just because he seems checked out regardless. If the whispers are already there. If it's down 30 or up 30, it's the same attitude. Yeah. And I guess I don't know how to quantify it. And so for that reason, I'm just, I'm kind of lost.

There's no, like, I'm not. Because he was taking a lot of hero ball shots in that game. Uh-huh. Because there were times where he tried specifically to respond with a three, and it did not go. Sure. So he was doing the type of things I think we would see

from a Kobe or a Dame or a Westbrook regardless of whether or not it's a good idea. It doesn't look the same. But do you think, so you're kind of saying maybe that's an indictment

of the surrounding Raptors that if he's on a team with like SGA, Harold, Shamit, Pat Bev, with somebody like Doc coaching, it's a different... What do we say about Clay? Now Clay is a goofball

and you see more of his personality probably than Kauai. That's probably also because we pay attention more because we're constantly tuned into the Warriors and despite how good the Raptors are, we don't really pay attention to them because they don't have any of these surrounding guys. So I don't know.

There's so many teams in this postseason and we can talk more about it in general, but so many fascinating crossroads teams, whether it's the Celtics to some extent, the Sixers, you know, the Raptors, although they've kept it under wraps, I think, for most of the season, the Warriors. It's just like it almost feels like this will be either the last chapter in a book of NBA or the first chapter in the book of the NBA.

Yeah, Zach Cram wrote about this on The Ringer last week that all of the first round was almost historically boring. All of the series were either sweeps or gentlemen sweeps and the one that went far. There were a lot of blowout games in them. Now, the tradeoff for that is an incredible second round. And we're seeing that where you have a lot of teams who are not only good, but they have a lot of stakes riding on the outcomes of the second round series. And I think the most fascinating one is probably just the Celtics, just because they looked like the old Celtics, the team from last year that could blow the doors off a team

just by tactical adjustments. Yeah. And then Janus gets a little bit of a screen before he goes head into, like head first into El Horford. Yeah. And literally everything opens up. And so now I do wonder if the Celtics are a type of team as they go into this game three on Friday, whether they're at a pretty big crossroads.

Yeah, a nice couple of days, too, for, like, players becoming gods. Embed, Durant, Janus, like, a nice run of, like, okay, you know, like, this is where, like, the best, the best are. I can't even, you know, Durant, I think, has been almost indescribably good. And also, just, like, makes me kind of feel bad about the profession where we're just kind of, like, have we just taken this for granted for three years? Well, yeah, one of the things that we've been talking about lately is just when Durant leaves, which seems inevitable, what's this team going to look like? And I think what everyone's kind of settling on is all of a sudden these Steph Curry blip moments and him kind of like fading in certain games.

I wonder how much that's going to be the dominant narrative of Steph going forward. I guess so. I mean, would you say the same thing about Harden? No, right? I mean, like... Well, I'm kind of a Hardin apologist right now. I feel like had he played that entire game with eyeballs, they win.

They would have been in it. They were in that fourth quarter, despite the fact that Chris Paul was giving him nothing, Klincapella could barely stand the floor. That's my problem with the rockets going forward. Not necessarily the rockets. I still think they could do a lot of good things and they can have some success.

I just think that they're in a hole now and historically 2O, like you rarely come out of that. Yeah, I mean, I guess there's not that many. I mean, that's why LeBron's LeBron, right? Right. because, like, he doesn't have blips, and he doesn't seem, you know, with a few exceptions, doesn't get raked across the eyes. It was just like every night in every playoffs for the last decade. It's just been, he's been the constant. Yeah, I wonder if he's ever missed a playoff game.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I cannot. I don't think so. I can't remember one. Yeah. So it'll be interesting going into this weekend. I mean, he's cramped up. He's quote-unquote broken his hand. I think he's played with injuries, but I don't think he's ever, I don't think he's ever missed a playoff game. Well, where are you on the Rockets right now? I do want to talk about the series a little bit. Yeah. I don't think that they... I know Bill was very, very strong about,

like, they took themselves out of things because of this... because of the complaining. I don't think that was the case. I actually think the Warriors are really, really good. Yeah. I think that the Warriors, like, are just better than them. And I kind of always felt like

maybe this Rocket's team wasn't as good as the one as last year. And I certainly don't think that this version of Chris Ball is better than the one from last year. So it's not surprising to me to see them down to nothing. I'm not trying to be like,

I'm smart. I just never thought that they were going to beat the Warriors in this playoffs. I think you're pretty bright. Thanks. No, but there was a lot of smart money on the Rockets. There was a lot of like,

ooh, the Rockets are psyched to see them in the second round because it's seven games earlier for Chris Paul, so he's not going to have a hamstring pole. And I just see a team that's like, they have to play perfect to beat the Warriors

and the Warriors just need Kevin Durant to beat the Rockets. It's funny because Jonathan Charks, before that series started, wrote a story on The Ringer about how Daniel House, do we know if it's Daniel yet, or if it's Daniel? I'm not in the Nexus where like... Let's just go D-House. Yeah, I got D-House. He was probably going to dictate whether or not the Rockets would be able to hang with the Warriors. And he's kind of been right so far.

He does seem, like, they do seem to need an ERISA throughout this entire playoffs, and it just doesn't seem like Dan Tony can trust him. And when he's out there, he gives them something. You could see a little bit of stretch. But then the warriors hunt him down. Warriors hunt him down.

The Chris Paul just drop off has really hurt my heart. I've been in the big Chris Paul stand for a while. And I've been saying even throughout this year that even at some points when it seemed like he was trending toward washed, that he still provided a lot of value.

All the advanced numbers seem to still like him. He still could not the same defender, but he could still get up into guys. It's just when Hardin was out in that series in that game too, he provided them with nothing. Like he just could not take over a game in the way he used to. And at that salary, you start to wonder, and this is, I mean, we were just talking about this with the Raptors, one game, and you're starting to wonder about the offseason already. Sure. I mean, I think that, look, I mean, like these GMs have trained us to do that, though. You know, I mean, Maasai and Darrell are two guys who have definitely trained.

us to start to prepare ourselves for enormous changes if things are going wrong. And I don't, look, what is going to become of this generation of Wall, Griffin, Westbrook contracts, Paul, you know, that are like in the 40s with aging guys who have lost the significant parts of their games? I mean, arguably Griffin's the best player of that bunch right now. Would you agree with that? Probably. And their untradable deals except for one another, which is why you and I kind of say things like

Wall for Westbrook and then start laughing because we don't really know what to do with that. Right. I almost suggested Paul, as you were saying that, Paul for Griffin. Paul for Griffin. You were talking Paul for Wiggins the other day, weren't you? No, no, it was Danny. That was Danny. I mean, like, this is the thing is that there's not a lot of stuff to do with these guys now. So I don't know if Mori's conception of this Rockets team

is look, if we're in a point where Chris Paul is dragging us down, it means we miss the window anyway, maybe it's like we like our chances with Durant in the East next year and we'll take it. I don't know. That's the other ripple effect is if Durant leaves the conference, do you just stand pat? Now, we're getting way too far ahead of ourselves, but I do think it's interesting. And I think it's interesting.

Look, there are teams who are good at teaching their fans in the media how to interpret their success or failure. I thought that one of the interesting things about Elton Brand and Brett Brown and the Sixers' ownership, clearly signaling that this was a win-now proposition and that the window was Ben Simmons' 's rookie contract was that it felt like an unforced error. It's not necessarily that that was or wasn't true, but it seemed like it was like a kick-me sign to put on the team because that means, okay, so now I'm judging you against exactly what you're doing this year.

Right. Rather than, I'm not, I'm not one of these people who's like, oh, I wish we could have just like kept it real with Dario and Covington. But by advancing it like that, by advancing the development cycle, you essentially, like, put more of a target on your back. They took an extreme approach when you look at all the prudent GMs and the good GMs. Yes. They will at least hedge their bet in certain ways.

Now, would a Utah or a Portland have done the same thing if they could convince somebody to come? Maybe. but they seem to be more models of consistency. You know, and I think it's like we celebrate people like Mori and Presti for taking chances and putting their teams in the best positions they possibly can with what they've got, which even if you don't like what Pristie has done is pretty miraculous that he was able to turn what he had post Durant into what he's got now.

But you basically put yourself in a position where if you lose two playoff games, people are going to start being like, do we think this team is going to be together next year? I think we talked about this. If not at the deadline, then definitely going into the playoffs. The Sixers have five very good players. Yeah. And that's a good thing. Yeah.

And you see the results of it tonight. Yeah, this is, and this is like what Elton Brand said. He was just like, honestly, like, when we get to the playoffs, benches don't matter. Like, he's like, I'm not worried about not having a seven or eight deep team. It's like, TJ's out of the rotation. Like, all the little folk heroes that we had are gone. Yeah. Having said that, though,

it would be really nice if the Sixers had Patrick Beverly or just one of those other, like, random... Or Terrence Ross. If they had Luwold Dang, like, give Luwold Dang four minutes instead of like some of these Jonah Bolden or like these Boban minutes that you kind of... Well, this is what we're just talking about. If somebody rolls their ankle, this is a rap.

But I think that that's the case... That's a flaw. And that's what... That's the GM's job. Yeah, and the only team that I think, sadly, that I don't feel that way about is the Celtics. That's tough. Where they just are so...

Like, they still have all these interchangeable... parts and a coach who seems to have 35 different lineups in his head at any given time. Unfortunately, they don't seem to all play well together. And they definitely don't seem to have the perfect combination to beat someone like a Janus. And I guess that's like the tragic part of the Celtics teams is that as good as job as the organization is done

as the front office is done as compiling all this talent. If they just utilize Janus in certain ways, it does seem unbeatable. Yeah. But this all goes back, I mean, just to take it back to Houston

and what you're saying, it's like, Daryl gave the Rays our Risk profile interview, traded for Chris Paul. You know, they give Chris Paul this, they essentially did the,

like, the poison pill Chris Paul contract, you know, and they, they have essentially tied their success to the success of this duo.

And, you know, God forbid PJ Tucker roll his ankle or something like that, but I don't know, whether or not, this might be the end of the tinkering. I don't really know what else they can do to tinker with this team. Well, I guess Daryl pretty much paid for this window.

He probably knew going into trading for Chris Paul that he would have to sign him to some long-term max, and he probably knew that at least half of it was going to be dead money or was not going to live up to the value. Sure. I mean, I think we do forget that Hardin is already 29, and that considering the amount of miles he's putting on himself these days, and not only just like regular minutes,

but just literally pounding the air out of the ball for 15 to 20 seconds and then like trying to maneuver around one person and then getting a shot up or trying to draw a fault. Like I don't want to wish this upon Hardin, but I do think that like he might befall the same thing that's happened to Chris Paul where if you're just like a smaller type or you've taken a lot of cutting minutes. And his 30 looks like a 33 actually. Right.

I would imagine, look, they've tried it as the one seed. They're trying it as the four seed. I would imagine next season we're going to get like a hard and load management season. Right. You know, he went for the back-to-back MVP. He went for the, I mean, I obviously think that like there's a lot of incentives involved for him to win an MVP award. But he gave it, he tried running twice. He won one of them.

I think that arguably he should probably, and he, you know, he arguably, he was in the running the year Westbrook run. But I think that he should probably do one of those like, I play 70 games. I take back-to-backs off. If we're up by 20, I come out, whatever. Like, he needs to chill out a little bit. Right. I think the one piece that they could theoretically move in order to get better and still keep this window open with a Paul Hardin kind of core would be Capella. Yeah. This goes like, this is the Stephen Adams conversation with the Thunder.

Yeah. If you have one guy you want to keep and one guy you can't trade, you have to trade the third complimentary piece. Right. And he's 25. Much more movable than Stephen Adams. Right. On a new deal, he's 25.

He still does. what he does really well. I think he is the perfect regular season center for a team that wants to get up and run a guy that could switch on to the perimeter. He's kind of an ideal modern big, modern five, which there aren't a lot of those out there, even though

I would go nuts if I could get him on the hawks or something like that. He would be great on that team. Yeah. The problem is that when Kevin Grant wants to play center, he completely erased him off the floor and he was already a better Capella when he just diverted his attention to do that. Yeah, I mean, this has been an incredible

playoffs for those kinds of performances. I mean, that tonight Mbid essentially negated at Marcosol, Kevin Durant can negate Kliquipel. If these top, top, top five talents decide to take over, especially the physical anomaly guys. Like, Curry is subject

to the rules of physics. Harden, even, maybe not contained, but like took a beating over the last two games. A lot of the landing zone fouls probably, like, you know, but Embed, Durant and Janus, like kind of emerging as as otherworldly figures

has been pretty fascinating. Yeah. And so I do wonder with the Rockets, even if Durant leaves, could you trade Capella? Can you play mostly small ball for a regular season and get like draft a loony type?

Because look at what the model is right now. It's just to find a bouncy rim-protecting big who could soak up some minutes so your stretch four can flash to the five in certain situations. I mean, they've been at their best when they're at the tuck wagon, and one of the best lineup nicknames out there.

Which I'm kind of a bum that we don't use that as much as the death lineup or the Hamptons 5. But I do think if they can get back to that, I still think they might have like a year. So you don't think that that series is over? I think it's probably over because of the hole they dug. But based on performance, I do think they've caught some bad breaks. I do think the refereeing played probably too much of a factor in that game won. They did not do themselves any favors of complaining about it after. word because nobody's going to back them. Hardin's eyes,

the referee in game one, Chris Paul getting hurt last year, like they're going to have, there's going to be stuff like that. I just don't know if they, I just don't think they have the talent to beat the Warriors. Right. Yeah, I mean,

Steph goes out for probably not the same amount of time, but they lose Steph and they don't feel it as much. And that, that's the difference. But on the flip side, you could say like, well, yeah, the rockets are playing with the thinner margin anyway. So they need those hardened minutes in the same way. Like the, they don't need,

the warriors don't need, stuff as much. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's the problem with that. All right, let's flip to the offseason. Yes, let's do it. Very briefly. I kind of haven't really been talking about this that much because the postseason's been so involving, but... I know, this is where we eat, too. Yeah. So let's talk about some coaches. Where's Monty Williams going to eat next year?

I have some recommendations. Well, let me ask you this. Okay. You're Monty Williams. Or you're just like coached, Hot Assistant X. Mm-hmm. And they're like, oh, man, see how Varyor holds the whiteboard? Have you seen my slums? I hear all of Brad Stevens's ATOs are actually very your plays. Yeah. Whatever.

Do you want to coach the Lakers or the Sons? I want to coach the Sons. Is this Galaxy Brain or like, are we overthinking this? No, I think if you tell me I make the playoffs with the Sons,

I'm a goddamn hero. I'm coaching the next... Yeah, then Sauer like fires you because you lose in the first round. But not if he likes you. If you just butter them up properly and you just make sure to give them some dap on the sideline every game.

That goat butter. Yeah. Yes. They have goats at the sun's facility. Well, I think specifically one instance of goats. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I could, like, they have the trajectory,

despite all the flaws they have in that organization with that roster of the next Nuggets. Devin Booker could be the next, like, superstar score. He could also be the guy that we continuously knock for not doing anything other than that. But DeAndra Aten, even though he should be Luca Dantzic, he's still really good. And they have enough of these wing types. They have McKell Bridges.

They have Tyler Johnson is in there who's like a totally fine player. If they make the playoffs next year, Moni Williams, like, everybody loves him. Sure. He just brought them to the Promise Land. Sure. If he doesn't make the finals with the Lakers after spending an entire year of having to talk to Ramona Shelburne about the latest whatever, like LeBron doesn't like the way that I call this ATO play, Yeah.

My brilliant ATO play. Yeah. Next thing you know, you're back on the bench with pop. Exactly, which seems to be a nice time. Considering all these stories come out and you just go to wine dinners where he just buys bottles for everybody. That's the difference for me. What would you do? I can't believe this is a conversation.

Do you know what I mean? Like, I can't believe that. You can't say the Lakers. Well, yeah. Yeah. This is the whole philosophy behind these jobs in the first place is that there's only 30, right? Like, this is what everybody says. like, well, why would you take that job?

It was only 30. But if I'm a coach, will I ever have a better, what is the likelihood that I will ever have a better shot of making the finals and if I'm coaching LeBron James, even if it's in the twilight of his prime? So like, don't I take that chance? Don't I bet on myself?

Don't I not bet on myself in a situation where seven guys have gotten fired in the last three years or however many coaches the sons have ran through? And it's widely reported to be the biggest carnival in the league. And they lost like the one thing that they have going for them,

which is their doctor, who just went to the sons. So I'm starting to, it's me, Robert Sarver, Dr. Spachiman from 30 Rock. And like James Jones, or I can go to L.A. Yeah.

And be like, look, like, I understand Polinka, Rich Paul, like there's all these different like dons among these mafia families or whatever. But like,

let's keep our eye on the prize. We are not so far away. I think you think that way if you've done this for a while. If you are Byron Scott, if you are Ty Loo, some of these guys who have been around and they really don't have much to prove that the title is everything for them, that makes sense. Monty Williams only had one coaching stand. It was an elongated one with the Pelicans. But he really is kind of an unknown. He took a lot of time off.

Obviously, he had a lot of family concerns. tragedy down in San Antonio and I do wonder if he probably want something a little bit more stable rather than go to L.A. for a year have to be moving his family again. But I do think he hasn't proved enough. I think his winning percentage is only like 43%.

He coached one Chris Paul year, got all of the tanking years or the down years of the Anthony Davis era and then had one year with Anthony Davis and he got fired even though they told him he was going to make the plan. And then Gentry came in, right? Right.

And which was kind of a fucked up situation because Del told them the coaching staff that they were safe if they made the playoffs and you got rid of them anyway because this is what Del Dembs does. I think you can't discount like the Jeff Bauer connection. Jeff Bauer hired him in New Orleans and then Bauer, I believe, left a month later. And what capacity is you working at the Sons? He's now effectively in charge of the front office. Not James Jones. I think James Jones works underneath Jeff Bauer. Okay.

And so I do wonder if it's a type of a full circle thing. I never actually got to work under Jeff Bauer. He's the guy that hired me. I'm going to go fulfill that. And we have a little bit of runway. Like if I won 35 games next year. They might get Zion. Look, this is the thing with a lot of this.

There's still a lot of upside. This is the thing. I've never felt less able to project what's going to happen in the next three seasons in the NBA. because not only do I feel like from all accounts, this draft is essentially a one-player draft. So you're not really looking at like six guys coming in the league and even like a Deeran Fox level energizing of a team. You know what I mean?

Not even like, oh man, like we got this guy and now, like everything's looking up for us. So we don't even know beyond Zion really what we're getting. I don't know if that was LeBron coasting because he knew that this team wasn't going to do anything and that everything was going to change in the offseason with Luke and maybe he even had some idea about magic and everything else. So I don't know

what LeBron we're getting next year. Don't know where Zion's going. Don't know where Kevin Durant's going. Don't know where Kyrie Irving's going. And if he's going to be on a team with Anthony Davis or Kevin Durant. Like I can't even project it out. You're right. Like if you're Monty Williams, can you string this along till after

the lottery? Potentially. It does seem like he has his pick. Because the son's with the number one pick is a no-brainer, I think. Right. The sons with Aiton, Booker, and Zion is a number one is a no-braider. Even though I'm sure our guy Igor thought the same thing last year. Well, I mean, but that was just like one of the all-time cluster Fs. Bad beats, yeah. Yeah. Luca Donchish's coach and you draft DeAndre 8. I mean, like, I...

That was rough. I don't understand. Yeah. I guess a new regime came in. They won a new guy. I don't know. I mean, that being said, like, you know, we're seeing a lot of like shadow stuff happening on NBA and NBA media of people tweeting things that or like suggesting rumors are like, you know, it's, it's Monty's job if you wants it, or you know, the Lakers would prefer Tailu or whatever. I just think it's like

a really murky time that'll only get clearer as we get along a couple weeks. I don't know how we've got to this place where like Joe Blogger will be calling out Mark Stein for like putting things out there for Rich Paul. Yeah. I think we're in some like dicey territory where everybody is just

like reading the tea leaves of tweets like who was the one that planted this. And I'm not even saying I'm above that. But like, I don't know who to trust anymore. Who are you in the pocket of? I'm in the pocket of big pelicans. Yeah. I want to be in like Etor Messina's pocket. Yeah. I want to be. Who who is the guy? I think it was Woj. Who was the like, the Euro league coach that Woj was like this guy could get the Grizzlies job, Serunis? Oh, Serenis. I think that was a win or story. Oh, is windy? Uh, yes. I think he's. But I was just like, what?

He's like a famous overseas player. Yeah. I can't pronounce his name because I'm just going to bush. I can't even get Daniel Hals right. So I'm going to butcher this guy's name. Serunis Marcius. Marcellinius. Yeah, that's what I said.

Yeah. So yeah, that guy might coach the Grizzlies. He's from Lithuania. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I remember this guy. We can get you in front of him. He'll probably want to talk, like, throwms or something.

If you guys want somebody to be in the big pocket of X, like I'm available. Because I'm not, I don't have any. Allegiances right now. Yeah. Now, when you were saying that we don't know what to think anymore, what I'm reading right now is LeBron is aging out of being the guy. We were already feeling his lack of a presence in the storylines of the playoffs. And I think this is what happening.

There's clearly a void that somebody in some team, some star player or coach or whatever, needs to fill. In some ways, that makes Durant's perspective move, prospective move to New York or wherever make that much more sense because I do think that Durant as the crown jewel of a team has the opportunity to

if not become the LeBron right now the new LeBron at least take his place as like one of the two or three biggest names in the league you think I could take it with my ATO plays maybe you never know who would you cut you should take Serenus's job in the EuroLeague

I think I could do well in Memphis teeth in Europe. Yeah. Just eat barbecue in the off season. Do you want to talk a little bit about what's going on with the wolves? I don't have much of a take here, except for that I think people

think that they know who Gerson Roses is. I just remember our slack the other day. He's a Houston guy who took the Dallas Mavericks job for like a day, right? And then went back to Houston. Yeah. And then I think because he, I think they've done a good job,

I don't know who, putting him out there in the media a lot in order to have more of a profile to perhaps get more looks for these jobs. I mean, I'm not talking about Gerson, but I highly recommend people listen to Jackie Max, Bill's pot with Jackie Mac, just to kind of like allude to like what Justin and I

are kind of talking about here with some of the like seeding stories with people. And Gerson Rawls might be like an absolute genius, but I have no idea. Gets brought up a lot as a possibility. Like the wizard's job has also been another example of like all the usual suspects are getting trotted out for that. And having said that,

that could set a lot about, David Griffin. I think David Griffin is a really good GM. You're in the pocket of Big Griffin. Yeah, I probably am in the pocket of Big Macina. But there's this... But when Gerson Rosas got hired, someone's like, oh yeah, about time, Gerson got a job.

I was like, I don't know, who is this person? I've never seen him in my life. The reason why I even bring it up is because they're such an interesting team if you're talking a clearing the deck situation. If that's a, I have no allegiances to X, Y, and Z being here, like, I didn't make these decisions. I didn't decide to give Wiggins a new deal or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think they would trade towns, but pretty much everything from Ryan Saunders on down is up for grabs if you ask me.

Yeah. And that's, I guess it's a good sign without knowing the specifics that the wolves for the longest time, we've just assumed that it's just all friends of a friend. We were talking about Ryan Saunders, obviously the child of Flip Saunders. who'd been a big part of that organization for years, we talked about Dave Yeager as a potential guy who could go there, given his Minnesota connections. There's always when we talk about the wolves, it's who's connected to the ownership,

who has like Minnesota ties, who wouldn't mind going there. And this seems like a left field kind of option. Right. And credit them for picking off one of the top minds rather than just going with somebody that they're familiar with. Sure. And I think that, you know,

a little while back we were talking about The Sixers, them making their window a little bit smaller and speeding up their sort of cycle by getting Butler and getting Harris and saying it's now or never for us, it's Simmons's Rookie Deal. The wolves did something similar and it blew up in their face. They got Tibbs who is not a developmental coach per se. They brought in guys like Taj and Derek Rose. They got older.

They got Jimmy Butler. They were trying to make themselves into a Western Conference playoff team and it blew up in their hands. does Gerson dial this back and try to somewhat sync up, hey, I want this team to be great when Carl Anthony Towns is like 28 or 29? Or do, you know, so does that mean no teague, no rose, maybe see what you can get for Wiggins, basically strip it down and build it back up again?

You know, I always circle things back to Anthony Davis, but I do think this is similar to the Anthony Davis thing, where they sign him to a new extension. They effectively have four, maybe five years, if he's willing to give him that. and you have that long runway, why not take a step back before you take a step forward?

And Towns doesn't seem like the kind of guy who's like, get me out of here now. And you don't have to just give up on Wiggins. You just have to perhaps find, like target your next coach with the idea of bringing the best out of him, even if that is to eventually flip him.

You need to build the asset in the most cynical terms. Yeah. There's still a lot there to like. I still think Towns, in terms of trade assets, is probably top 10. He's a guy who theoretically has...

You mean trading towns? Yeah. I'm saying like as an asset, as a player, is town's not a top 10 asset right now? Oh, sure. Oh, he's in the ballpark. But do you mean as like a guy who you would trade? No, I guess I'm just saying in terms of value.

Like you want to build around that guy. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just saying like it would just be like if you trade towns, I don't really know what the point of having a franchise is. Yeah, yeah. I didn't want to say he's a top 10 player. He's more of like a top 10 talented guy. Absolutely. Absolutely. I still think there's a lot there to like. And like, maybe it doesn't involve Andrew Wiggins, but there's still something there that you can put together. Jeff Teague, I believe, only has the one year. I think like they do have a chance to wash the books clean. And I guess if you're an optimist on Roses, you're getting someone who has experience building an organization rather relying on a coach to just pick his own favorite players.

Sure. And I think this all goes back to the beginning of this pod. We can wrap it up here if you want, but Sixers Tonight, people were talking about this is like an identity shaping win for them. This is a team that's found itself. Obviously, that that's been the hallmark of the Warriors is like not only do they tactically play in a certain way, but they have certain parts of the game that they just are so good at. A lot of these teams that are on either the downside or the upside of a rebuild are going to be searching for that. right? Like the son's job that you're talking about. Like, what are you if your team is built around Aiden and Booker? What are you if your team is built around Carl Towns? Because we haven't really seen the attitude part or like the identity part of the game from those guys. It's more like, oh, God, raw numbers. These guys are pretty awesome. But like, I'm really fascinated to see like what is the optimal version of Carl Towns and how far can he take you. Right. And to your point from earlier, like even though the rockets are so steeped in the analytics and the math and, all this other stuff arguing about the refs, they have a clear identity. And it comes from top down. Hardin buys into it and feeds into it. Look what happened to the box. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Well, most importantly, I just want to bring up before we go here that I was right about LeBron. Great. Bobby just told me. Congratulations.

Thank you. All right, that's it for us. Are you in the pocket of big clutch? You never know. I would love to be in a pocket. If anyone has an open pocket, just let me know. If you've got any suggestions at Ringer MBA,

whose pocket should we be in? I'm taken, but Justin is completely up for grabs. He's single. All right, guys. We will talk to you next time for Chris. Antonio Marino is right there. For Serunis, I'm Justin. We'll see you next time.

Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.