The Ringer NBA Show - ‘Heat Check’ — A Rose by Any Other Name (Ep. 168)

Episode Date: November 27, 2017

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman and John Gonzalez discuss Derrick Rose considering leaving basketball (1:03), look forward to Isaiah Thomas’s looming return to action (5:49), examine the schism between Marc Gasol and the Memphis Grizzlies (9:23), scrutinize the Oklahoma City Thunder’s recent struggles (19:29), check in on retiring NBA players (27:23), and list the games they are excited for (32:28). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So go to fathead.com slash NBA ringer to place your order and get 20% off sitewide. Welcome to the Monday morning heat check. I'm Juliet Litman. I'm John Gonzalez. I'm in New York and you're in L.A., but there's still basketball to discuss. Basketball does not stop, Juliet. Basketball never stops, except for a couple of people, including right now, Derek Rose. Let's start by talking about the reports coming from ESPN.

with Derek Rose and the Cavs. So some will recall that last season, Derek Rose didn't show up for a game with the Knicks and there was like a big like a medium brewhaha around it. He didn't tell them. No, he didn't tell them. So that was a little bit different. This is he's been out with an ankle injury

since November 7th and last week it broke from Dave McMedaman and Adrian Wollosznarowski of ESPN that he was away from the team in evaluating his future. It sounded very ominous. And some of the quotes that we got were an anonymous source saying that Rose is tired of being hurt and is taking a toll on him mentally.

Rose has been non-communicative to multiple people inside and outside of the calves. However, he did notify them that he was taking some time away. And so he didn't like just disappear. But it sounds like he's not talking to necessarily all of his teammates. And it's a unique situation. It's extremely unique. And it's sad, Juliet, because like, has anybody in recent memory had a week? weirder, more tragic and tragic relative to sports, not real life, career arc than Derek Rose from MVP to this crash.

I mean, you mentioned last year when things kind of went sideways on him and he disappeared from the Knicks and he didn't tell them and he said, you know, that's my fault. But then now he notified them, but now has gone like radio silence since. Right. And the non-communicative part is troublesome if you're the cabs. He's not talking to anybody inside or outside the cabs. He's off doing Derek Rose things. And I understand that he's upset about being consistently injured. He hasn't truly yet.

He has not played more than 66 games since the 10-11 season. That is so crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. And he's on the veteran minimum of this year, I'm going to $2.1 million. And it's obviously still a lot of money. But for someone who was such a huge prospect coming out of Memphis

and then was the face of the Bulls, it was like a Bulls revival with him and Joe Kim Noah and all of those Tibbs teams, it's a precipitous fall that we're not used to seeing. It usually comes sooner if this isn't going to happen, like rookie or sophomore seasons, right? It's been crazy to watch. I mean, I remember I covered the series, the playoff series where he got hurt

against the Philadelphia 76ers. And, you know, that was a really good team. I mean, they had Joe Kim Noah and Joe Knoa wasn't New York, Joe Kimnoa. He was Chicago version. He was playing really well. Heart and soul. He was amazing.

20 boards, yeah. Yeah. And those two together were really fantastic. and that team had big time aspirations and I think would have given the Celtics fits if they had played. Instead, the Sixers went on and lost them in seven games. And Derek Rose, from that point to this,

has never been the same. And now he's contemplating his future in basketball. His present isn't very good, let alone his future. I'd be surprised if we ever see any version of Derek Rose pre that injury against the Sixers again. I mean, he's just been a shadow. It seems

really unlikely. Also, he's just had like a lot going on. I mean, also, like, notably, they're pretty grisly court case against him last year where basically he was accused of gang rape and then it was not it was a civil case anyway so it wasn't like guilty you're not guilty but he was not liable basically but it's just been a very kind of like hard to watch and also at times hard to support him given those allegations and it seemed like maybe this could be a good fit for him but I guess not I mean if you're always injured and your body is your career it's hard to keep playing obviously and like mentally stay there so it is tough to watch do you think he should step away I don't know I've been

wondering about this since this news broke because on the one hand it was you see this report from Woj and McMedaman and you go my god I can't believe it and then you take a step if not back to then to the side and you go yeah I guess I can kind of believe it I mean the Derek Rose like we've said the Derek Rose of the last couple of seasons has been not a good Derek Rose he played 64 games last year 66 the year before that only 51 in 2014 15 I mean it's just been one shortened campaign after another, maybe he should. I mean, Dwayne Wade said that while he doesn't fully understand what Derek Rose is going through, he understands the idea of being hurt, not being able to get out there and your body not reacting the way that you wanted to and how that can mentally take a toll on you.

And LeBron said that, you know, they're rooting for him and all this stuff. I feel like he's checked out. Yeah. You know, like he wasn't fully there in New York last year. And he's definitely not fully in Cleveland this year. Right. Also, notably, the calves of improved. since he's gotten injured. They've won seven in a row. Yeah, all of a sudden they're back in the mix in the east. Shocker. They're 12 and 7. They're third in the conference. It can still be first by April. It's a long way off. The calves are certainly in a better spot than they were last week at this time and certainly better than two weeks ago at this time. And it looks like Isaiah Thomas might be back soon. He shot out on Instagram that said, it was kind of vague, but it was like him practicing.

It was like coming soon. So the timeline has always been December or January for him, Christmas or so. And so that is pretty soon. They need them. They definitely need them. I mean, that will be a massive boost to that team. I mean, he really, the offense that he provides, certainly they could absolutely use. And I think he wants to get, yeah, he wants to get back too, because there was an ESPN headline. It was sort of a little squarely. It trumpeted Kyrie Irving in Boston by saying Isaiah Who, that was the headline.

And, yeah. That's just rude. It was a little bit much. I thought, I mean, the guy's got one hip. Give him a break. He'll be back eventually and you'll remember that he was really good for the Celtics. So he responded on Twitter and started with a big ha-h-ha-ha. Are you a ha-ha-ha person or an L-O-L-L person?

I'm an L-O-L-L person and for a moment like this, I would do L-O-L-L, like, too. You do an extra. Yeah, an extra. Like I'm really laughing out loud at this one. What about you? Just to really underscore how amusing this is to you. I'm a ha-ha-ha person and I would have a truncated ha-ha-ha to show. how unamused I was by this.

You'd be like pissed, yeah. Right, it'd be like maybe just one ha. Ha, that's appropriate. I agree. Right. So he had a multiple ha, ha, ha, ha, and said he's happy that Kyrie is playing well and that the Celtics are doing good. But he said, don't disrespect with the Isaiah who, though.

You know damn well who I am and what I've done. He's ready. He's ready to get back out there. I think that he sees what's happening with Kyrie and the Celtics. And it's got to make him like, if not a little jealous, then a little, you know, I want to go out there and show that I'm still really good. Yeah, absolutely. One thing I couldn't have seen coming like three years ago, four years ago was that Isaiah

Thomas would be in the no criticism zone. Like, I don't think you can really criticize him because of the incredible display. All of last season, he was carried the Celtics. And then continuing to play after her sister tragically died at a young age. That was really sad. And then the way the Celtics just totally did him dirty, he's just like a universally beloved player now in Boston, outside of Boston. Everyone who seems to have been in contact with him

within the last two years really likes him and supports him. Of all the NBA players, I wouldn't have guessed that Isaiah Thomas would be the one who's completely above criticism. No, he's a super fun player to watch. He's easy to root for each and you mentioned. And just like the rise, the career arc for him has been almost inversely proportional to Derek Rose. As Derek Rose got worse,

Isaiah got much better. Don't forget. I wrote about this in my dear Aaron Fox piece, but like, remember when he was in Sacramento, Isaiah? Yes, I know. And Sacramento has needed a good player and a good point guard forever. And they just basically buried him because he didn't get on with Buggie. And then he went to Phoenix and like that was a weird fit.

And then all of a sudden he ends up in Boston and, you know, now he's the Isaiah of recent vintage. He's been amazing. The King of the Fourth. Who would have saw that coming? Nobody. I know. Absolutely no one.

It is like a kind of like really good sports movie. like the way you put it because he was the last pick in the draft. Yeah. He's overcome so much adversity. And now he's like even... He's tiny. Even more. Yeah, he's tiny.

I don't know. He's like a really compelling figure. And I think that's why it's like when he gets slided. You're like, no, lay off in Isaiah. Yeah. I'm rooting for him. I'm ready for him to come back. And I think he's going to be great.

Speaking of slights, let's talk about the Memphis Grizzlies. What's happening? It's pretty wild. So last night, the Grizzlies lost to the New Jersey Nets. I watched the game with my father. I like that you're calling them to the New Jersey Nets. Sorry, let's bring it. No, keep them in Jersey, the Meadowlands, the Swamp Lans.

I went to the Nets Blazers game a couple days ago. Oh, you went to that game? I did. It was quite fun. That was the noon game, right? Yes, it was the noon game, which, by the way, was supposed to be at 7.30 when we bought the tickets, and it got moved up to noon. And they moved it for, like, a totally tertiary college basketball tournament,

which I find shocking and very strange. That's how it goes for the Nets. And that's why they're still the New Jersey. Jersey Nets. They're like, whatever, put them at noon. I've consistently called the New Jersey Nets like the last five days. By the way, the Blazers had a good day that day. I actually don't think it was a good day.

The Nets are fine. They've got flashes, but they're not like a good team. They gave that game away. The Blazers, and the Blazers, you know, to their credit, took it. NERC took that game for them. I actually love NERC. I think he's rapidly rising in my personal player. There you go.

Now you're coming around a little bit. See that? But I also really like Alan Crabb. And I think he enjoyed playing his former team. Anyway, the New Jersey Nets, the Brooklyn Nets were playing the Memphis Grizzlies in Memphis last night. And it was like a close game. And then the Gris lost by 10, notably without a Chandler Parsons, who's out for the second half with a stiff knee, which for all of our Parsons heads out there, me included, Meese particularly, is worrisome. But way more notably, no Marcusole on the fourth.

And it's not because he was injured. It's just because Coach Fizz benched him. Weird. Really weird. Really weird, Juliet. This is a team that has been very bad without Mike Connolly. And by far and away, without question, their best player. When Mike Connolly is on the floor, it's either one in one A, you pick.

But it's Mark Gassal when he's not there. And he leads them in points and rebounds and assists and blocks and effort and talent. and for some reason sitting on the bench. Yeah, and he was really pissed. Let's just read a couple of his quotes. I do not know the why. It's a first for me. Trust me.

And I don't like it one bit. I'm more ticked than I can show and frustrated. And then this is the real money shot. At the end of the day, I'm as competitive as anybody. I hate not playing. That's what I value most. If I'm not on the floor, that means I'm not valued. I'm sure they knew that would hurt me the most.

I'm sure they wouldn't do it to Mike. They wouldn't do it to Mike. They wouldn't do it to Mike. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch, that's a tough one. Fisdale, that's a shot across the bow, dude. First of all, he's right.

There's no way, for a team that's lost eight straight and nine of their last 10, there's no way in hell that you would sit Mike Connolly in a game. Like Fisdale said, I'm desperate. I'm trying to win a game, right? When he was asked why he sat Mark Gassal. Yeah. Okay, I understand that you're desperate. I totally get you're trying to win a game.

Explain to me how sitting Mark Gassal makes that happen. Marcusole is like one of my favorite players to watch particularly in person because he's just he's so good and underrated. So underrated. Yeah. And it's funny. Like him and Connolly are both so underrated but also like so great. But do you think he should be able to carry the team better than he is? Like is someone with his skill set able to push a team off the hill without someone else?

I think when you have he and Mike Connolly running that two man game and you've got pick and roll actions, that team becomes something better. better than it is. It's better than the sum of its parts. You take Mike Connolly out of it, and Tariq Evans has been really good for them in his absence, but he is not Mike Connolly, and he's a better second team guy. Look at the rest of their team, Juliet. It's a bad roster. It's a bad roster. They've got your Michael Green, Dylan Brooks, your boy Chandler, Mario Chalmers is getting minutes. James Ennis. Yeah, this is just a bad team. I mean, like, they really don't have-. Andrew Harrison is my fave. I'm just like, how is Andrew Harrison in the NBA? Andrew Harrison in the NBA.

I mean, honestly, they have nowhere to get offense from. That's why I think they've really had to get a lot out of Tariq Evans. They got him on a really cheap deal in the off season. Good for them. Good for him. But when you're like really relying on Tariq to provide your offense, you're in a lot of trouble, which again brings it back to Fisdale. I don't know what the hell he was doing.

He said, okay, well, you know, the second team guys were really eating into the lead. And I guess they were. But that second team is really ugly. Yeah. Yeah. There's just not a lot for them. feel good about and apparently they don't feel good about Marcus Hill either. It's pretty weird. Also, as just sort of like a personnel management move, it's really like a bizarre one to me. There can't be

like a great feel good vibe in that locker room. So benching your star without any warning when he also hasn't like clearly done anything wrong except contribute to losses is a really weird psychological move to me. It made him sad. Yeah. And mad. He seems really mad. He seems really mad. It said, I'm sure they knew that that would hurt me the most. Like, he had been wounded personally. I feel really bad for him. He spent a lot of time in the offseason, too. I mean, let's not forget.

He lost so much weight. He really got himself in shape. Marcusal, when he first came in the league, a little bit doughy. People didn't know that he was going to be, you know, I'm not going to say he's the better Gasol, but he's certainly a really good Gasol. Both Gassals are excellent. It's a debate, at least.

But he's been so good over these last few seasons. Again, he's clearly their best player. I don't know what Fisdale is doing. It sucks to see what's happening in Memphis because when they had Mike Connolly and also Gasol on the floor, I'm not going to say that they were a good team, but they were defying early season expectations. And then you unplug and then everything's cratered since then. They were overachieving for sure. Tough for Chris Vernon.

Sorry, Verno. You mentioned the other Gasol. And I actually, I would love for Mark to be on the Spurs. I think that that would just be very fun. But there's basically no way to get him there. I need a double Gasol. all. That would be great. That would be fun.

When is the last time brothers are on a team together? I mean, they do the Spain thing together. I love watching that. The Morris's we're in Phoenix together. Yeah, that's right. And they shared that contract. Yes, so bizarre. I don't know the agent who brokered that deal, but I think that was stupid.

Anyway, I would like Marcus Lull out of Memphis. I think Memphis just needs a reset. They kind of were heading that direction when they got rid of Zibo and Tony Allen, but might need to go even further. And also, they're like in a weird predicament because there's just all these rumors, which you've covered on the ringer that they're going to be sold. So it's hard to really make moves and be aggressive when your ownership is going to change. Tough times in Memphis.

Tough times in for the Clippers as well. And therefore, DeAndre Jordan is in some trade rumors. And they're really truly rumors. But one thing in the ether is DeAndre Jordan for Tristan Thompson. So this has been reported, perhaps, as you said, rumor. Not really reported. It's been like floated. Floated.

That's a good word to use. I like that we're in the business of using words. Let's choose the proper word. It was floated by Cleveland.com. Here's what it said in the report. It said a league source said that the move could be Jordan for Thompson and there would be a pick. Now, Cleveland has its own number one pick.

They also have that Brooklyn pick that they got in the Kyrie deal. I don't understand. Like for the Cavs, done. Like here's a pick. Here's Tristan Thompson. This makes sense for me from the Kaz's perspective. From the Clips perspective, unless you're getting that Brooklyn pick, I don't understand how that works.

Not worth it. Not worth it. The Clippers are worse with Tristan Thompson than with DeAndra Jordan. Considerably worse. Yeah. Okay. Glad we agree. I think that I've like lost a frame of reference on how good Tristan Thompson is because

he only plays as LeBron. So I'm like, could you be good on another team? And I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I'm not positive. So he's been hurt and he hasn't played much this year. And he carries the Kardashian curse. He carries the Kardashian curse. He's only been out there for eight games. You know, like it's hard to tell what sort of shape he's in right now.

It's interesting, though, for D'Andre Jordan, his numbers have been a little skewed this season. He's second in the league in rebounds, which is where you'd expect him to be. Rimp protection numbers, though, Juliette, not as good as previous seasons. He's only 28th in blocks, and I wonder, like, how much of the way he's been deployed is to blame for that, or, like, maybe he's just taken a step back. I mean, he got eaten alive by Joel Embed when they played here in Los Angeles. list. I still think it's an upgrade for the Cavs. For the Cavs, it would be a no-brainer. He's just a better type of player for what you'd get out of those two guys. But from the Clippers'

perspective, this is a big trade piece. If they're going to do something like that, I think they need more. And let's not forget, the Cavs are the same team that traded two first round picks for Timofay Mosgov. I would remind them of that one saying, hey, if you want DeAndre Jordan, you've got to cough up more than just this. David Griffin, the former GM of the Cavs, is on NBA TV talking about this. And it was kind of interesting to hear him like so cavalierly be in GM mode. It was actually really cool. And I wish we had more of that in like the NBA commentary space specifically on TV.

We certainly have it online. But he was just talking about how this is a really, it would be a really bad idea for the Cavs because the only thing that matters is one of the championships there, obviously. And then DeAndre Jordan can opt in to like a last year for $35 million, which was like just be insane. And they're already over the tax. And it's just when you hear him like spell it out You're like no it's a really stupid idea

And anyway, it was just fascinating So he said it was a bad idea for the Cavs But if his reasoning for that is that They're trying to win championships And that's the only thing that matters Isn't this like a make or break season for them on that front? Sure. Yeah, but I think his point was that it wouldn't make a difference Well, I mean, I don't know

I think D'Andre's an upgrade over Tristan Thompson But maybe he's right Maybe it doesn't move the needle enough for them to actually You know, upend the Warriors when they inevitably meet again. Yeah, I mean, and also, like, Tristan Thompson is, like, best against the Warriors, perhaps? That's, like, when he plays best basketball. That's true.

He does play well against... Playoff Tristan Thompson's a real thing. Yeah, totally. Okay, we need to talk about the saddest place in the NBA of the Oklahoma City Thunder. I need all of Julia Littman's Oklahoma-related takes. There's a lot of things to talk about here. They've lost four of their last five. They lost a game to Detroit at the last second where Paul George didn't take a shot.

after like the eight and a half minute mark in the game, which was bizarre. Russell Westbrook was shooting really terribly in that game. Didn't matter. They gave him the last shot from three to try to win the game. He missed. And then Juliet, they followed that up by losing to the Mavericks. Yeah, really bad, really bad, which allowed Tim McMahon, who I like to write an article for the ESPN. Like the Mavericks are like starting to figure it out?

Like now they're 5 and 15? And I was just like, are they? Or are the Thunder just an abject failure? I don't know why, but like my good friend and office roommate, Chris Ryan, I just really root for the Thunder and Russ. I don't know what my connection is to them, but I just want the best for them. And I just find this like so, so hard to watch. And I just want to point out one thing. And Kevin wrote today, Kevin O'Connor on the ringer, about how the Thunder's problems begin and end with Russ, which is all very fair.

But I just want to point out, Russ has been to the playoffs of almost his entire career. He's been to the finals. Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, have not, they both have won, significantly less than Ross. So maybe they're the problem. So I just want to say, you know, it's not like they're like proven winners elsewhere. Okay. So I think that how they've been incorporated is really confusing. And we're going to get to Billy Donovan in a little bit.

But when you have Paul George who doesn't get a shot after the eight and a half minute mark in a very close game against Detroit, Paul George is a really good player. He's a good shooter too. He's a good shooter, but this is part of my issue with the way that they've deployed him. More often than not, it's, hey, Paul George, go over there and stand in the corner. And I don't understand how that works. I mean, they're treating Paul George the way that they treated Victor Oladipo last year, which was, you'll get the ball when Russ is damn well ready to give it to you. It's not an incorporated offense where it's like, we're going to share, we're going to make the right play. Whoever gets the open shot gets the open shot, and that leads to really good, productive, continued offense.

not what they're doing right now. And KOC's piece is really good. Everybody should go and read it on the ringer. He's right that the problems begin and end with Russ, just as the benefits begin and end with Russ. But some of the culpability here has to lie with Billy Donovan, does it not? Sure. Absolutely. One thing we just, we talk about a lot is, like, how much credit to give to coaches

versus the players. And I think it really varies team to team. And so I don't want to either, like, give Billy Donovan credit or all the blame. But the Thunder just don't have a system. Like, they never have. And so that's kind of, I think, goes back to the Russ problem because even with KD, they didn't really have a system. It was sort of like two stars do your thing and figure it out. But it's an even bigger problem now without KD.

And last year, you kind of got it. You're like, well, all they have is Ross. He's in a drag him to the playoffs. And like, that's fine. But when you're trying to incorporate three exceptional talents, you need a system. You need like a Golden State, Steve Carr, Greg Poppich, or Rick Carlisle kind of scheme. And they just completely lack that. And Paul George is obviously the most obvious.

way that it becomes apparent. I wonder how much of last year sort of screwed up the idea of, you know, Russ in his head and how things need to happen because now you've got other pieces around. I mean, like, there's second in defensive rating. They've got talent,

but there's 22nd in offense. They're 18th in pace too, so it's not like they're exactly pushing the ball. They're sort of middle of the pack there. I just wonder how much of last year just, you know, they still need to shake that off and go, that's, last year is not this year. we need to be a team and not just, you know, one guy and then, you know, his backup singers.

It's just a screwy way to go, every time I watch them, I go, I don't understand this. It's, you know, it's just like looks broken. It's, I actually, I don't like watching them. It makes me too sad. This is not good for you. This was your team. I know. I really wanted more from them.

They lost to the Mavericks. I know. Okay. Let's do real or not real all Oklahoma. It's all Oklahoma. Oh, Oklahoma. Wait, wait, wait. Okay.

That was from Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Did you ever see that movie? I haven't. I'm not a personal movie journey, though. Maybe I'll put it on my list. It's an 80s comedy with Steve Martin and Michael Kane. It's really good. I do love Michael Kane.

Yeah, and he runs, they're two con men. It's great. But that Oklahoma thing always makes me laugh. All right, so I put this together because you are the number one point person for all things, Oklahoma City. This is your team. So I need to find out real or not real. Do you agree with KOC? Russ is the problem with this team.

There's so much evidence. that points back to Russ. But I just believe in him. I'm going to go, no, not real. I'd rather have Russ than not have Russ. So there you go. They're two and ten when he leads the team and shot attempts, Juliet. Okay, maybe that's a coaching problem.

Yeah, I really think that that, and we're going to get to Billy Donovan. I'm with you. Russ is so talented that you'd rather have him than not have him. And he's also a really smart basketball player. He must know that he needs to get the other guys more involved. It's not last season. And that's why I think KFC nailed it. He's both problem and benefit for this team,

which brings us to the next one. Real or not real, Billy Donovan should be worried about his job. Yes, 100%. We're way past that point. What is Billy Donovan doing? I don't know. I think so real and he's been terrible and somebody needs to get to Billy Donovan yesterday and be like, you need to fix this.

He's never been good. In the NBA, he's never been good. You're not like, oh, great coach. So I think he's got to go. Remember when he first came in, there was that narrative of this is a weird, like, this is a weird coaching decision, but we'll see how it goes, and it didn't really work out. And then they almost beat the Warriors.

And then people went, oh, yeah, like, maybe Billy Donovan is pretty good. And then KD left, and it was just the Rush show last year. So we weren't talking about Billy Donovan at all. And now we're back to, well, they've got much better talent than they had the previous season. What the hell is this offense? I'm with you. I think it's weird. He's got to go.

Real or not real, it's under will miss the playoffs. So this is interesting. Yeah. So here's who's in right now. Rockets, staying in. Warriors, staying in. Spurs, probably staying in. Timberwolves, it's probably staying in. Blazers, nuggets, pelicans, jazz. So the jazz are nine and 11 and the thunder are 8 and 11. So there are 1.5 games behind them. And the pelicans are 11 and 9. I think personally, the pelicans are the biggest overachiever of this bunch. The Nuggets just lost Millsap. So who knows? Like that could be a Ewing theory situation, though,

where they've had too many pieces and maybe taking one out will help. The West is sort of overrated here. When you look at like, I like their top four, even five teams because you know I like the Blazers and you just mentioned the nuggets with Millsaps. So like that's a question mark. So I would say the six, seven, eight seeds sort of up for grabs. Oklahoma, you would think should be able to grab one of those pretty easily. Yeah, definitely.

Who do you think is most likely to fall out of this eight? That's tough. I think that the Pelicans have, for good or ill, their team together. So I would leave them there. The Nuggets is a tough call. You have Milsap with surgery. So who knows how that's going to affect them? I think it's them.

I think it's the Nuggets are out. Yeah, Nuggets and jazz. I love Yokic and I love Mike Malone for some reason. But, yeah, I think it's the Nuggets. So I think they make it. But I think as the eight. And then if they play the Warriors in round one, that would just be. I think they're going to make it too just because they have two.

much talent. Like you look at, like you said, I mean, the nuggets are man down now, the jazz your man down. The Thunder have all their pieces. They should be able to make the playoffs. That's, yeah, no. They really should. It's now time for the heat check, heat check. Boom, Shakalaka. He's heating up. We're going to do these rapid fire. Do it. Steve Kerr this week broke out a deck of cards this time. Previously as discussed, he had nail clippers. He had slinky, here a Rubik's Cube. When he makes press pregame announcements, he brings a prop and now it's a deck of cards. I'm ready for this bit to end.

You know what? This is like one of those Simpsons or Family Guy bits where it starts off funny and then like it continues and it's like less funny but then it continues even more and it gets funny again. I'm in on this again.

I want this to just keep going. I read this morning that Steph wore a fanny pack to the game or he has to do it for like three games because he lost a bet to Jemel McGee. I would just say the Warriors for any bad losses they just seem like they're having fun which is like Steve Kerr's big mantra is like, you know, find the joy in the game.

And they're like real professionals. I have like a lot of faith in them, even if James Hardin is maybe the best player in the league right now. Yeah, I mean, they clearly are not at all concerned with the regular season, nor should they be. Here's another one. The Knicks went out and throttled the clippers in New York and Blake Griffin out with Kendall Jenner that night partying. Yes, they went to up and down. I don't know about up and down. Tell me about up and down.

I believe that's the club that Jay Z was at the night. of the elevator incident after the Met Gala. So it's just kind of infamous for that. At first I was like, huh, that's a weird look. And then I went, nah, never mind. Who cares? You're in New York. It's Thanksgiving week.

You got killed. What's the difference? I don't know, man. I think it's a bad look. I'm very anti-Blake and Kendall to begin with. Really? And yes. I just think that if I was Blake Griffin's ex-Brin, I'd be really anti.

So I stand with Bryn. I say, let those two crazy kids live. If they can't make it, who can? I guess. I don't know. I just think it's a bad look. I don't want the face of my franchise, a Jordan brand star, a recently maxed-out player, just like constantly seen partying. You got to spend that money somewhere. That's true, I guess. I'm anti. One thing I'm pro. Yeah. Caroline Wozniakie threw a retirement party for her fiance, David Lee. Oh, they're together? Yes, they're engaged now. Things you learn. God, you don't read the Daily Mail or TMZ. He, I think that David Lee's having a great week. Caros threw him a retirement party in Missouri, which is good because now it's just sort of like, so he didn't exit on his own terms because he would have done that like in June, but he just sort of like accepted his fate that like he's out of the league, he got a ring, move on. And he had like a retirement party in Missouri where he's from near St. Louis.

And then he went with her as her date to Serena Williams's wedding. So like it doesn't really get better than that. He's getting way more attention for getting engaged having this party and going to that wedding than he would have if he was still on the Spurs. So I think this is like a good week for David Lee. David Lee, much better career and life than I anticipated David Lee having. Totally. Good for him. Also, in the retirement front while we're doing people of saying goodbye, Kendall Marshall announced

his retirement and it made me go, Kendall Marshall wasn't already retired? Yeah, I know. He had to announce it. Like, really? All right. Good for Kendall Marshall, though, I guess. Yeah. Godspeed.

Yeah, Godspeed, dude. And meanwhile, in Cleveland, LeBron threw a wine night. Kevin Love was there. and he spent more than $1,000 on wine for his team. So I saw this report and I thought like that's really cool. They had a night of wine and they got some delicious bottles. It was like almost $1,200 worth of wine. And initially I thought, oh, that's a lot of money for wine.

Then I was not actually no, right? Because you have a lot of people drinking and you're rich. Like I would have expected the over on that. Oh, totally. Yes. Also, it's LeBron. Like you've so much money. I was interested that I think these are mostly battalions.

wines. It's kind of a range, but most, they're all European, no California or Oregon. Support local. Seriously, LeBron. What kind of American are you? Just kidding. I love it. The NBA is a wine league, which I really think is interesting. Obviously, Pop is a noted wine guy. That team is a big wine team. As I learned last year when I was in Cleveland doing their podcast, their road trip and podcast, they love to drink their wine. Yeah, absolutely. And it's like Ben LeBron's thing for a while. I also just want to note, if you're not following Kevin love on Instagram, you definitely should because he does all these stories about the stuff he's watching. And it's, like, fascinating. Like, I just would love to know, like, how he goes through Instagram and, like, who suggests things to him. Because, like, it's just, like, so interesting

to me. I will do this now because of you. These are all the things that I, like, I need you around to tell me about, like, what's happening with clubs and the wine drinking on it on Instagram. This is perfect. I, you know, I can only be me, man. So I saw yesterday that he just started watching Dexter. And I love Dexter. So I support it. It's one of my favorite shows. I feel like it's been forgotten.

But I'm just like, interesting. I don't know. He's just streaming. He loves that streaming life. I have bad news for him. It gets bad at the end. I know. It does.

Everyone should tell him to cut it off after the Julia style season. That was my favorite. Okay. Let's look ahead to the games we have this week. The games this week. Yes. There are quite a few good ones. The Pistons are at the Celtics tonight.

Top of the Eastern Conference. This is actually a good game. Who would have thunk it? And the Battle of Los Angeles. I came in and our producer, Isaac Lee, was very excited that it's Lakers at a Clippers home game, even though every game in L.A. is a Lakers home game. Yes, that's true. It's the regional battles of California because also the Kings of the Warriors tonight,

which is not as fun, but still, I like a good regional fight. And Cavs at Sixers, that's a good game too. Cavs at Sixers is also a good game. A couple of big games for the Sixers this week. Later on in the week, on Thursday, they play the Celtics, get to measure themselves against the best in the East. I'm excited about that one. Yes.

And then Wednesday, we've got Oklahoma City after a very long layoff. Lots of time to think about how bad they are. Lots of time to fight with your teammates. To fight. How I see that. Or Unify. We'll find out against the now once again terrible again Kevin Clark magic. Yeah.

I'm looking forward to that. That should give them some juice. You know, like they should be able to, that should raise them up. Which is like whenever I really like reading. Whenever I'm having a hard time getting into a book, I like to pick up something really breezy to find my rhythm. And that's what the magic should be. Wait, you read before you read?

Yeah. That's really interesting. Thank you. I mean, I'll read before I write, but you read it as an appetizer before you're reading main course. I like it. Yeah, and a moose bush. Yeah, exactly.

I really want the thunder to put it together, John. I just really do. I know you do. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. That's a big game on Wednesday. Which is like just so depressing and tells everything you need to know. That their big game is against the magic. Yes, exactly.

Exactly. This has been the Monday heat check on the Ringer NBA show. I'm Juliet Litman. I'm John Gonzalez. Tomorrow you got Verno, who can maybe give some insight into the Marcus Lowell situation with Kevin O'Connor. On Thursday, there's the NBA group chat with Chris Ryan, Justin Barrier, and friends. And we'll be back next Monday. Thank you for listening as always. See you.