The Ringer NBA Show - ‘Heat Check’: Anyone Can Beat the Thunder, Including the Thunder (Ep. 180)

Episode Date: December 18, 2017

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman and John Gonzalez review the Oklahoma City Thunder’s eventful week (1:26), debate which team is the worst in the league (13:24), preview the Kobe Bryant jersey-retirement ceremony (19:44), discuss some young players (26:58), and get excited for Christmas Day games (34:32). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

to the Monday morning heat check on the Ringer MBA show. I'm Juliet Littman. I'm John Gonzalez. We're coast to coast today. I'm in New York. Cross Continental. I'm still in L.A. How is it? Still L.A. warm. Nice. Beautiful, sunny. How's it on the East Coast? I'm coming east shortly. Wednesday, I hop a bird back to Philadelphia. What am I looking at? Nice. It's not too cold. It's pleasant. I don't know. I like the opportunity to wear my winter clothes. So I like it. Sorry to the people who are already sick of their winter clothes. But that's how I feel. I feel bad for them. Although it's semi-problematic. I'm glad to hear it's not. super cold there because I basically just took a match to all of my winter clothes when I moved out here.

I don't have a jacket. I don't own a jacket anymore. Yeah. I have a lot of winter coats, actually, so I leave them at my parents' house and I like to wear them. Can I borrow one? I'll see if I can FedEx it to you. Perfect. I'm wondering if you're feeling a glow of any kind in LA because it's Kobe night tonight at Staples. Yeah, there's a lot of things going on here. And we're going to talk about that in a little bit with an all Kobe edition of Real or Not Real. But Danny Chow wrote a piece for us about Kobe's legacy and whether or not this is sort of the end of the Kobe era here in L.A., not to get too takey on it, but I don't think it'll ever be the end of the Kobe era in L.A. Like, they're still, the fandom is still very much attached to him. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, you will get into that. But first, one place for the fandom is a little less clear here in New York, where I currently am and where Carmelo Anthony returned on Saturday night. Yeah, Mello went back. It didn't go so great. No. Well, can we just caveat it? I mean. Sure.

I'm all about nuance. Yeah. So the Sixers and the Thunder played a triple overtime game on Friday night. So I have so many things about that. I just want to say the loss was coming off of there on the middle of road trip and they'd play triple overtime the night before. So you think that they were just like a little worn down? Yeah. I mean, it's like a lot of minutes, right?

Like it was triple overtime. Yeah, a lot of minutes for everybody involved. They didn't have Chris Staps though. I know. It's embarrassing. The Knicks without Chris Staps. Like, that's not a good team. I know.

That's not a team you should lose to the Knicks without Chris Stabs. I mean, what are you doing there? It's pretty inexcusable. All the same. I just felt we needed to cap that. I don't know. I'm still a Thunder Apologist. I don't know what to say about it.

I just am. Yeah, you really like them. I like them intermittently, which is, I think, like, how they've played most of the season. That game specifically, though, for Mello. He called it Bittersweet. He had 12 points on 5 of 18 shooting from the field. I'm not sure what part of that was sweet, though.

I mean, he didn't play well, and they lost. I mean, I guess he went home and, you know, he got to see everybody in New York. But eh for him that night? Eh, for the thunder that night? Eh, for the whole game? Like, it wasn't a great game for me. I don't know. I just didn't think that performance on the whole was terrific.

No, that's kind, John. Yeah. But like you said, caveats, caveats. Yeah, I mean, Mello was 5 for 18. Russ was 9 for 18. I don't know. It's just so, it's really hard watching this team. It's so just really disappointing.

I just want them to do so much more and they clearly can't get it together. It's really a rough one for me. I mean, Michael Beasley put 30 points on him. I know. And he had the quote of the night. Let's hear it. So Michael Beasley said, you've got to beat the best to be the best. He's one of the best of our era talking about Carmel and Anthony.

A couple of things about that, Juliet. Yeah, I guess you could say Carmelo Anthony is one of the best of the era. But to say to be the best, you have to beat the best. And it's mellow. I'm not buying that. And also, Juliet, that's a Rick Flair quote, and he botched it. But to be the man, you got to beat the man. And I'm saying, woo, right here.

Woo! See, that's the way you do it. I mean, Michael Beasley, if you're going to channel Rick Flair, get it right. Michael Beasley is his own special flower, though. I think I support him anyway. So this was my point, though, about like the mellow era of the Nix, right? And I know that you're not a Knicks fan, but you're a New Yorker. So you can inform this a little bit.

what is the perception of mellow like what is his legacy because when we think about the mellow era in new york it started with a lot of pomp and circumstance and then bringing him in with that trade rather than just waiting because he wanted the extra money and for his time in new york there were 221 and 283 so that a losing record they made the playoffs three times but they only made it out of the first round once for me i know he had a lot of teammates i know he had a lot of coaches he had five and seven years but it never felt like the mellow era amount of to anything, really. No. I don't think he'll be remembered kindly as a Nick. I guess he will be remembered as a Nick over a nugget, basically. Yeah, I think so, too. Yeah, but it wasn't like a winning team. And they made the playoffs one time, like, okay, great.

And it just wasn't successful. Yeah, it's disappointing, too, because, like, you wanted to see Carmelo Anthony take that team and revitalize the Knicks. And the Knicks, like, as a Philadelphia and I want to, while we're doing caveats here, I want to do the caveat where I go, I hate the Knicks. And I don't like most things about New York sports. In fact, I don't like anything about New York sports. However, as a basketball fan, the NBA is more fun when the Knicks are good.

I want the Knicks to be good. Maybe Chris Deppes Porzingis is the guy that we've all been waiting for who will revitalize the Knicks. But I wanted it to be mellow because he loves New York so much and New York loved him so much. And it wasn't. Yeah. I always think about Jason C who like both loves him and hates him. He's written about it so much. He's a huge part of the Knicks of the last six years.

He is the Knicks of the last six years. But I think also when he's gone, it's just sort of like good ridden. He's holding the team captive as much as anyone else by his style of play is pretty intractable. And also, he's just never meant to be a number one. Like there's no evidence that you can have a winning team with Mello's your first option except for when he's at Syracuse. I don't count that. Good news for Mello then because not a number one anymore. Oh my God.

He's just not good anymore. Yeah. I mean, his numbers this year, I wonder how much of it is like nature versus nurture. How much of it is him fading because he is getting older? He's 33 now. He doesn't have, you know, to the extent that he ever had great legs, he doesn't have great legs anymore. He's definitely, he always had an old man game, and now he's an old man to go with it. So I wonder how much of it is him versus that offense that is just a disaster in Oklahoma City.

Total disaster. Also, just to your question about, like, how he'll be remembered. I think he'll be tied to Phil Jackson, like, forever. Probably unfairly so. But because their time together was both Rocky and Phil Jackson so famous. I just think that will be a part of the Carmelo Anthony story, which is kind of unfair to him, but I think will be true. Yeah, it's a shame looking back on it. But, like, I liked the idea of pushing him to OKC and, like, having this triumvirate and seeing what that looks like and whether or not they can contend in the West.

I know that you're a thunder apologist. And I want you to, like, make me feel better about the thunder here because, you know, they had that road trip where they end up two and one. They beat the Pacers in Indies. So Paul George gets his revenge, redemption tour. And they have that three overtime thriller where they, like, come. cut the hearts out of the Sixers, which killed me. But then they go and they lose to the Knicks without Christaps Porzingis, and I realize that they were probably a little fatigue.

But Juliet, like, net rating-wise, they're in the middle of the pack. They're 12. Sure. And defensively, they've been really good. They're third. Offensively, though, that offense is, and I can't figure it out. Why, it's really bad. They're 25th in the league in an offensive rating.

It's gross. Yeah, their most reliable, like, set for them is usually like a Westbrook to Adams. pick and roll. And basically, that's just like what they had last year. It's kind of like they haven't been able to adapt whatsoever and learn. And so the thing that's most effective still, like that wins them games is Ross just going forward at the end, like as we saw against the Sixers, or him playing two-man game with Adams. And so they've just done nothing to incorporate George and Anthony. It's bizarre. Like they have no system. They have no motion. And Paul George is just so unfun to watch. I'm just like, send him to the Clippers because that's where unfund talented players go

to suffer. And I just can't deal with it. It's no system is exactly right. Like our buddy, Chris Ryan put a video in our ringer NBA slack, which was basically like what happens when Russell Westbrook doesn't have the ball. And he basically backs away from the three point line and doesn't move. Like there's no cutting. There's no flow. Everybody's just sort of standing around. And he only engages when he has the ball, which not great. But so it sounds like you're a little less bullish on the thunder than maybe you were earlier in the year. You know who's the most bullish on the thunder in the entire NBA? Who's that?

Enos Cantor, listen to this. I believe that they're still the best team in the West. Really? Yep. I still believe it. I believe it. I think that in the end, you guys will see it in the playoffs. You know, they're going to step up.

I'm not the thing. I still believe that they're the best in the West. Juliet, they are 14 and 15 and barely in the playoff picture. Drug test that man right now. I just, we have no evidence that Ennis Cantor is not the best teammate in the NBA. He's incredibly supportive. He, like, just gets behind his guys. He might have empty calorie stats, but hey, he'll get you some rebounds.

I don't know. I think I'd want to have Anas Canter on my side. I'm, like, legit worried about him, like, if there's some leftover Stockholm syndrome there, or if he's, like, maybe a, like, a sleeper agent for the thunder. Like, how in God's name could you look at that team and go, like, with a straight face? Because I think he believes it. Yeah, I think he does, too. Where are you at with Russ, Gonzo?

You're not, like, in the Russ Hive, but you like good basketball. I like good basketball. I really enjoyed watching him last year. That was a virtuoso performance. I think that there's some residual effect from last year. And shouts to KOC on this one, because he put a stat in our ringer NBA sec, which, by the way, that is a treasure trove of information. This entire show that we do is basically just me mining. Yeah, like, what have we been talking about as a group?

What are we talking about as a group? but so KOC put this in there. Russell Westbrook against the Knicks extended his streak of shooting 50% or under to 24 straight games. That's tied for ninth longest in the history of the NBA since the 83, 84 season. The record for bad shooting under 50% is Alan Iverson, who was obviously a gunner. But you look at some of the other names on the list, Juliet is Ricky Davis, Antoine Walker, Kobe Bryant when he was older, Tracy McGrady at the end of his career. Just guys who like, you know, didn't really have it or guys who were like absolutely. Lute Gunners, I wonder how much, like, do you think last year had an effect on him?

Because usage rate-wise, this year, it's obviously come back down to, you know, I'm not going to say Earth because his usage rate was always high. But it's basically back to, like, what it was when KD was on the team. So it's not, like, outrageous for him. And yet his shooting, Juliet, has not been good. No. But he's never been a great shooter. Like, ever.

Like, when he was with KD, like, everyone just gets so mad when he would take a stupid pull-up three. Like, Russ, that's not your shot. He's never been a great shooter. He's always been an incredible athlete and just like a force of nature. And so I think it worked when he was like the only guy. It just seems like he's not a system player for whatever reason, whether it's his temperament, whether it's the coaching. He doesn't work in like a motion offense, basically. Or he's just completely resistant to it and kills it. It's hard to watch. But like that's also what makes him so amazing is then he takes over the end of a game. And Bede had two nasty blocks on him, like just incredible. Put those on B's highlight rail

right now. But Russ doesn't care. He just comes back and he has the exact same thing and he's so fast and he's so strong. He just muscles his way to the basket. It's both damning and incredible to watch. It is incredible to watch. Although like, so you're right that he's never been a good shooter and that hasn't ever been his game and attacking always has been.

And that's fine or it was because previously like even when his shot wasn't falling, which was frequently if he attacked the rim, two things would happen. He would either finish or he'd get the line and he's always been until this season a good free throw shooter like for his career he shoots it at 81.7 percent which is pretty good certainly like for a guard you want to see like above 80s and you feel pretty good about it this year he's shooting it 70 percent and he's still

taking a ton of free throw attempts which has been like really killing them late in games because that part of that you said about him being disengaged when if he doesn't have the ball he's just like not there for them offensively when he does have the ball his instinct is still the same like go and try to like yam one on MB, right? And then I'll get to the line. But if you're not making your free throws late in games, you're a detriment. That's really wild. Like the free throw thing is crazy.

It's like obviously mental. I mean, or to me it seems mental. I shouldn't say obviously. But as a team, the Thunder also just like they miss so many free throws in that game. And that like is an encapsulation and they just shoot themselves in the foot in the collective foot. It's so frustrating to watch because they have a lot of talent. I want them to be better.

They do have a lot of talent. And we've mentioned this before on this podcast. has something's got to change there and they brought in Paul George and they brought in Carmelo Anthony and Russ isn't going anywhere and how long I mean like I know that they're like technically in the playoff picture but like if I'm Billy Donovan I am sweating it because like watching right now yeah and I'm doing the air quote thing again but like watching their offense it doesn't exist there is no offense there's no flow there's no ball movement there's no player movement no there's no cutting it's just ISO ISO and it's terrible it really is

rough. Let's talk with some other bad teams. This is making me too depressed. In the East, the Bulls have won five in a row since Meritish returned. However, they are still sitting at 8 and 20 with one of the worst records in the league. So, Meritich, what are you doing? Are you trying to like ruin this tank job? Yeah, it's odd that Meritich came back and somehow ignited this team. But we talk so much about like the teams we really like watching and almost invariably those teams end up being good basketball teams. But I was thinking, like, you know, as I was watching the Thunder the other day, like, sort of flounder around, they're not a bad team. They're not a good team either. But the bad teams

in the league, especially with Myritish returning and winning five in a row, like, who's the worst team in the league right now? Here are the teams with 10 wins or fewer as we record this. You've got the Bulls, the Hawks, the Mavs. The Grizzlies who obviously have been like injuries have hurt them. The Kings who are for. forever the Kings, the Sons who we know are tanking, the Lakers, I just wrote a long piece about them. I have no idea what to make them on any given night. Sometimes they're a lot of fun and they're really good and sometimes they're the opposite of that, but they're really young. And then they're the Hornets who I thought were going to be better. So those are your

10 wins or fewer. Who's the worst among that group? Great question. It's probably the Hawks, right? Probably the Hawks. I think the sons are pretty bad, particularly with Bucker while he's hurt. Although they've gotten some like fluke wins, basically. but I don't know. I guess you have to go with the Hawks. The Bulls are really bad. Yeah, the Bulls are bad.

I don't really like watching them either. They're not a fun team to watch. The Hawks definitely are not a fun team to watch. It pains me to see the Grizzlies on this list. I know. Because, you know, with Mike Conley and also Markisal, like I liked that team because that combo, when you have those two guys on the floor together,

the Grizzlies end up being good. You take one of those guys off the floor, the grizzlies end up being bad. and there's only so much Marcusal can do. It's a shame to see them on this list. It's not surprising, as you mentioned, the sons to be on this list or the Kings to be on this list. I think we saw that the Mavericks were going to sort of hit the reboot button.

Do you like watching any of these teams? No. I still watch the Grizzlies a little bit because of Chandler Parsons. And because Markisaw is still really fun to watch. I like watching the Lakers. I do. I do too. I think there's undeniable fun and just sort of like hope that they could be good.

And also just so much weirdness. Like at any time, first of all, like you get a weird Brandon Ingram. I'm going to be good game. You could get a weird Kyle Kuzma shooting well game. Also, it's worth it for fans wanting Kuzma to be better than he actually is. I would say he's regressed to be in like an average rookie. But that's fine.

That's more than people expected, right? And there is fun in that. The Lakers are the most fun of this group. And I think the Hornets are like not bad to watch. Kempah's fun. This is an interesting point. Like, for me, just because I like narratives, almost invariably, like when I'm watching basketball, I'm picking like, what are the storylines?

And so the Lakers, like you just mentioned, have. a ton of them. And even when they're bad, they're good, right? Like, you're watching good, bad basketball. You're watching these young guys who may or may not develop into something, or you're watching them because they're the Lakers and they're playing a team that wants to just hammer them because they're bad now. I agree with you. They're a team that I watch a lot, and it's not just because we're here in L.A. I would end up watching them a lot anyway because they're a curiosity. The Hornets are another team that I'm sort of like dismayed to see on this list because I expected them to be better. And they haven't really been. And I wonder how much of that is also

health related. Like, Kamba's a lot of fun. Nick Batum, I am a massive fan of Nick Batum. Me too. I love to him in Portland. Love him. And I don't think he gets enough credit for being like a really versatile. Like he's not a terrific shooter either, but he's really versatile and he does a lot of different things on an NBA floor. And this team, a little disappointing. Definitely. Also, the other thing about the Horn is like Dwight is like Dwight's playing a lot better, but kind of doesn't matter. Oh, Dwight. He's, I mean, like, I guess we should have known. Like any team that he ends up on now ends up in the tank. That's it. I know. I know. He's bad news. I wouldn't, I wouldn't sign him. Juliet's GM advice. We should do a whole segment on this.

Conversely, which good team do you think is actually not that good? Good team that's actually not that good. I've sprung that on you, but like the Spurs are 20 and 10. Juliet's surprise question of the week. What was your one, oh, top 25 player MVP candidates that you gave me? Yeah, that was it. Sorry, this is my process, you know? No, I like talking through these things. Like the Spurs are 20 and 10, but they got just kind of embarrassed by the Rockets on Friday. I actually think the Spurs are very good. You know, you have to give Kauai some time to reincorporate. Yeah, I hear you with the Rockets thing.

But playoff spurs in the same way that playoff calves are better, playoff spurs are going to be fine. I think that they could give some teams some real problems. I think in the East, the Pistons. I mean, the Pistons are 17 and 13. I still am not buying in all the way. In the West, probably the wolves. The wolves are fine.

They're fine. Yeah, the wolves. They don't play defense. Yeah, they're fourth, but they're like a distant fourth behind the Rockets Warriors and Spurs. Did the Rocket Spurs game shake your confidence and pop in the Spurs? A little bit. Although I think preseason, I was like the least high on them. I was just like, how have they improved, you know?

Yeah. I mean, they had better Lamarcus Aldridge. I wonder how much, like, he can keep that going now that Kauai is back and Kauai is the guy. Yeah. Can they like figure out how to have them play together? I was a little alarmed by the Celtics loss to Utah with that Rudy Gobert. Yeah. I just sort of chalked that up.

to those games happen in the NBA. The NBA is really good. On any night, even the Chris Depps-Less Knicks can beat the Thunder. Similarly, you know, down goes-go-bear. Anyone can beat the Thunder, apparently. Anybody can beat the Thunder. Including the Thunder. The Thunder can beat themselves often.

The Thunder will beat the Thunder. But yeah, I wasn't worried about that for the Celtics. The Celtics are a really good team. Let's talk about the guy who won't go away Kobe Bryant. But first, let's tell you about what else is going on at the ringer. Coming in 2018, a weekly video mailbag from Bill Simmons, we also got Mallory Rubin doing Mallory out of a hat and a slew of other new digital shows. You don't want to miss anything.

You probably even want to find out what Mallory out of a hat means. So go to ringer.com slash videos or even better, subscribe to the ringer on YouTube at YouTube.com slash The Ringer. I work here and I want to find out what Mallory out of a hat is. I'm not going to give it away. I think it's better if we save this information for 2018. I'm excited. I am too.

Okay. And now let's talk about the one and only co-exam. Brian, who, tonight on Monday against the Golden State Warriors, the Lakers at halftime, will be retiring Kobe's two jerseys eight and 24. So this brings me to many questions for you. Okay. Are real or not real all Kobe edition? Real or not real, he deserves to have two jerseys retired.

Discussing last night, my family dinner, my brother pointed out as many have that he had nearly the exact same stats with both numbers, so I'm going to go with both. And this is a good point. And he's got rings with both jerseys, right? The rings with the first one were in 2000, 2001, and 2002 with Shaq. And then with the second jersey after Shaq, 9 and 10, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he won an MVP award with the second jersey with number 24.

He won a finals MVP award in both of their fourth and fifth championships. I think Kobe became the lasting legacy of Kobe with number 24. But you can't forget about number eight. I mean, three championships. And Shaq and Kobe will never be forgotten. The rivalry with the Kings, there was so much that happened when he was wearing number eight. aesthetically, I liked eight better. I think it just looks better.

KB8's better than KB24. Yeah, I liked it better. But if I'm Kobe and I spent all that time saying, like, I didn't need Shaq to be great and assert myself and, like, will the Lakers more championships? I would want 24 retired. Also, that's the last number you wore. I think eight and 24, like, you know, you're Kobe. You can do whatever you want.

The Lakers are going to do whatever they want. It's a little much. I would just advocate for one banner. I'd be like, how do we figure out how this goes together? Because I wouldn't want him to have two. Like, I don't think he's the most important Laker of all time, although some might disagree. And therefore, I don't think he should get two, like, actual banners, you know, two jerseys hung. But he's getting two jerseys, right?

He's getting two. Design-wise, though, I would advocate that's unfair. Like, that puts him ahead of, like, Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul-Japar. Says a lot. Says a lot. I don't know. I don't know how they're going to feel about that. So they're playing the Warriors tonight, Juliet.

Yes. Most teams would just go into the locker room and do their own thing. the Warriors have elected to stay out on the floor. Steve Kerr's going to have his guys out there and be respectful of Kobe. Real or not real? It's cool that they're doing that. I have a question. Are Jersey retirement is usually before the game or always at halftime? I don't know. That's a good question. Because I don't think the Warriors should have to be out there if it's at halftime.

Like, you know, game plan. Go back to the locker room. Do what you need to do? Don't have to be, but are electing to be. I guess that's fine. Steve Kerr understands pomp and circumstance. So I don't think it's cool or uncool. It just kind of is. I think that this plays back into our narrative of they're just bored as hell. And they're like, sure, man, we'll watch the show. Whatever you guys want. We're fine.

That's cool. We don't even really need halftime anyway. So the Warriors have Nick Young on their team who obviously played for the Lakers for a while. Yes. And one of the famous stories about Nick Young and Kobe Bryant was that Nick Young once asked Kobe Bryant, Nick Young's an Adidas guy and had some Adidas and brought them over to Kobe and was like, Hey, man, you're a legend. Will you sign my shoes?

And Kobe tossed them in the trash. because he's a Nike guy. Real or not real, we love Kobe for doing that kind of thing. I love Kobe for doing that kind of thing. I love, I do. I do love it. I really, really do. I love to have seen Nick Young's face when Kobe was like,

I'm literally going to put your shoes in the trash. It's like when Clay Thompson threw the Gatorade bottle because he does body armor. And it's similar to that. But like, with Kobe had so much more purpose and deliberateness to it. I love it. That's one of my favorite stories. I've followed Kobe. for a long time because he grew up in my area.

Sure. Which we're going to get to a little bit. Lower Mary in high school. I covered him in high school. That's one of my favorite stories like going back to, you know, when he took. Who did he take to the prom? Brandy. Brandy.

Yes. Duh. One of my favorite stories as well. Right. That's the beginning of the Kobe, the Kobe being Kobe era. But so you mentioned this earlier, real or not real, Kobe was better than Shaq. Not real. Not real.

Not real. Just absolutely not real. And I'm a big Kobe fan. I'm a Kobe apologist. Kobe is complicated. We don't talk about his Eagle, Colorado. situation very often, but like he is a complicated man who was accused of rape. And like, he's so celebrated and rightfully so, a great, great player. I think it would be different. That's

happened now. But I will say, he is not better than Shaq. Shaq was like completely unique. He was a unicorn. He wasn't like an athletic unicorn like now, but he was a completely one-of-a-kind player. And Kobe is, I think, one-of-a-kind for his drive and his tenacity and his ambition, his work ethic. But you could name other players that are like him. Who else is like Shaq? Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, Shaq was like a seminal figure of that era and everybody wanted Kobe to be the next Jordan. And obviously he wasn't. He was just Kobe, which is fine because he was amazing as just Kobe.

I could go either way. I could see the case being made either way. I think, like, if I absolutely had to pick, I enjoyed watching Kobe play more. Yeah, me too. Shack was just physically dominant, right? Like, he had his issues at the free throw line. Like, early era Shaq with the magic, he was a lot of fun to watch because he was like a lot more A feeder of foot.

Yes. And would run the break and do things that you hadn't seen somebody that size do. But the older he got, the more weight he put on, the slower he became Celtics-era Shaq, a lot less fun for me. Yeah, way less fun. Way, way, way less fun. I really enjoyed the Kobe Shaq Lakers. That was sort of like the beginning of the post-game press conference era where, like, they mattered. Shaq would always wear like weird outfits.

Like, that was when pressers started getting televised and they were like, meant something to the games. I love those. Me too. I love them. You know, post-game pressers, anybody who can make them more fun because a lot of the times they're not fun, I'm all for that. Last one for you, this is something that's hotly debated in Philadelphia, and I want to see where you come down on it. So, real or not real, Kobe is a Philly guy. Not real, and I thought Philly fans don't even like him.

Most Philly fans, I guess if I can speak for Philly fans. Please do. Be the Philly fan. I would say that you're probably right. I appreciate him. I think that the idea of saying like, so he's from Lower Merion, which is like a very, Tony neighborhood area outside, just outside of Philadelphia. I grew up in Delaware County just outside of Philadelphia. I went to college in Philadelphia. I lived in Philadelphia for a long time. I still have a house in Philadelphia. But this idea of like who cherry picks,

who's from Philadelphia, like all of Jersey, South Jersey says they're from Philadelphia. You would hear all of these suburbanites who are saying that Kobe Bryant is not from Philadelphia. They would claim that they're from Philadelphia. So I think like, I think part of it is that they always wanted Kobe to say that he was a Philly guy, like to really embrace it. And when he moved out to L.A., he kind of just, like, sort of put Philly behind him. Like for the 08 World Series, he was, you know, reping the Dodgers. And people hated that.

Totally. Well, I was going to say, like, he's not a Philly guy because he disavows Philly, basically. Yeah. As you've learned, and probably everybody who's listened to this podcast or knows how many Philadelphians that we have at the Ringer now, it's really hard to take the Philly out of the Philadelphia. He's like more Italian to me than he is Philadelphia.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe he really like associates with that. He does, man. That's why he likes so into soccer. And like, he's, he's just a real weirdo. I love weirdos, in fact. But he copi's a unique bird. He's a man of the world.

Let's move on to the He Check, He Check. This segment is tailor-made for this, was one individual from Croatia, currently living in Orlando. Mr. Mario Hizonia, what a week for him. He's back. He's kind of back. Actually, I shouldn't say back because he's here.

He's here. To be back, you had to have been here before and he never was. He just arrived, much to the excitement of many Orlando fans. Hazzonia was really, people were really excited about him when he was drafted. I was. I was so excited about it. Remember when he said, somebody said, oh, you know, when he was playing for Barsa, and they said, are you going to go see Messi?

And he said, let Messi come see me. Yeah, amazing. Amazing. He's pretty confident, let's put it that way. And with all these, so many injuries to Evan Fornier and Aaron Gordon, he's getting to finally play for Orlando. And he had 28 points last night. The, because it still beat the magic. But it was been a weekend of Hizonia and all, everyone who wanted to believe in him is like feeling really vindicated right now.

I really wanted when the Sixers still had at Oka Four, that like, Oka Four for Hizonia swap. Yeah. Because one, I guess the magic can never have enough big men. But two, I am still a believer in Mario Hizonia. I guess he's kind of a dick. And like that's part. That's part of why, like, you know, it hasn't worked out for how alienated two coaches and a, like, a slew of teammates. But talent-wise, I think he's still got it.

Oh, yeah. Let's get this guy in the right system, you know? Free Hazonia. I love it. That's what Nurkits tweeted, Free Hosonia. Free Hosnia. Other heat-check, heat-check candidates here. So do you see, again, we have Lonzo in here.

It's like every week we have Lonzo, but this one really mattered because Lonzo went to MSG, Madison Square Garden for the first time. And that's a big deal. And he decided to wear a sweatshirt with his face on the Elmatic cover to MSG because he said, don't nobody listen to Nas anymore. And I want to stand up for Nas. Like basically the context of this, Juliet, was like he said that people of his era, of his generation, like Migos and Future, which great, Migos and Future are amazing. But the idea that, like, you can't listen to anything pre-2000.

is absurd. And to throw shade at Nas, one of the greatest of his era, I can't stand for it. Also, in Nas' home city, I mean. In his own city. I don't like this. Our resident millennial, our producer, Isaac Lee, was basically saying that Lonzo was right here. Isaac, you made a terrible case for this earlier before the show. Make a terrible case for it now. I mean, all I can say is anecdotally, I have never heard a Noss song come on at a party that I've been to. I'm just saying, Okay. I mean... But that's a weird barometer.

Absolutely. There's like so many artists that you've never heard come on at a party before. This is what I'm saying. His argument is all over the map. He was saying that he'll listen to, you know, 90s era, early aughts era, hip hop and was like rattling off a couple of people. But like it has just skipped over Nause. And I'm saying like if you're going to be open to that era of that genre, then like, you know, incorporate Naz. Well, here's the thing. When I go to like parties of stuff, I'll hear Jay-Z. I'll hear Tupac. I'll hear Biggie.

I'll maybe even hear Rocky him and Eric B. I'm not hearing gnaz anywhere. Maybe this is an indictment of your social life. I was going to say maybe you're going to the wrong parties. We don't accept this. We support Lonzo, but we don't accept this. I'm team Nause on this argument. Some other beefs that have happened this week,

Westbrook and Embed Juliet, they won at it. So as you mentioned in that triple overtime thriller, Westbrook, you know, I'm not going to say he won the game for them, but they won the game. afterwards, he told Joel Embed to go home? I'll tell him to go home. You know, he was talking

Mess with Stivo. He filed out, waving to the crowd, which is unnecessary, waving to Tebow by, you know. And now it's time for him to go home. Big revelation here is that Russell Westbrook called Stephen Adams Steebo. Yeah. You're right. I skipped

over that part. I was too busy thinking about him telling Embed to go home, which I found curious for the exact same reasons that Embed found curious. Don't want the game. I give them a lot of questions. it and did a lot of things, but I mean, the deal shot like 1043. I wish I would

have a 3rd 3rd times and I guess we would have a better chance of actually winning the game, but you know, he told him to go home, man. This is my home. I ain't going nowhere. That was, I was like, go home. It's a short drive for me.

Can you give me 30 seconds of concern, darling? Please. I don't think you're going to like it, but I just want to say Joel and B. should not have played all three overtimes. I'm just, I'm just I'm sorry, he should not have. He clearly was having back problems. He recently missed a game because of back problems.

One game against the thunder is not worth exacerbating a Joel and Bede back injury. That was ludicrous to me. I was voicing the same concerns in that it started out this season where they were on a minutes limit with him. And he still is not playing back-to-back games. And every time they cut to him, he was on the bench grimacing. And I'm like, yeah, sure, run them out there for triple overtime. They're going to have to sit them down for the rest of the season.

He was on the court grimacing when that. happens. I mean, he played a career high, 49 minutes in that game. When he was formally playing 20 minutes a game, like we're only two months removed from that. Like, that's not acceptable. That is, that is negligent in my opinion. On the one hand, you just groaned. I did. I don't like any of this because it's bad both ways. On the one hand, I go, yeah, you're right. I wish that they probably hadn't done it. But at the same time, he wants to play, that's a crazy game. It's, you know, maybe not a once in a lifetime game, but a triple overtime game. It's a once in a season game.

I want to see him compete. Like, you wanted to win that game. It's at home. It's tough. It's tough both ways. I don't like it, though. Russ and Ben Simmons were tied for 52 minutes in that game. So that's game high.

It's crazy. It was really fun. It was a fun game except for the end. Yeah, sorry. One more thing here that I wanted to run past you. This was the last addition to the heat check heat check outline that I found. And it just found it so curious. Steve Kerr did a very, I love Steve Kerr.

interviews. He's a really interesting person to talk to. I've interviewed him a couple times. He always gives you like really thoughtful replies rather than like the stock cliche or blowing off reporters. But he had an interview with a Bay Area radio guy, Julianette, that was curious. Splish splash. Coach, are you taking a bath? Can you hear a little water in the background? Yeah. Are you drawing circles in the water while I talk to you in a bathtub? I'm going to refrain from commenting. We're just going to continue with the interview. That was with Damon Bruce in the Bay Area, Juliet. He did it in the bathtub. What do you think about that? I love it. Support it. He also has back problems. So find a comfortable place and go for it. I promised Isaac I was going to

have a bathtub revelation in this segment. So I'm going to do it here with you. Oh, wonderful. And I recently revealed this to my wife as well, who I don't think has stopped making fun of me yet for it. But when you, and I'm saying you as in the ringer, send me on the road to do things, one of my, like, writing breaks is to, you know, like maybe have a glass of wine in the bath. Nice. I support it. That's great. It's very therapeutic. Yeah, it sounds like a lovely evening. Writing is hard. Writing is hard. And so sometimes I need a little timeout. And that's what I do on the road. I draw a little warm bath. Generally not bubbles,

but sometimes in a glass of room service wine, it's quite therapeutic. Take care of yourself, Gons. Self care is important. Absolutely. All right. This weekend basketball, Celtics and Pacers. Gordon Hayward says he might be coming back. this year? You buying that? I don't support it. Even if it's true, like, why? Why? I mean, maybe playoffs, but still. Maybe playoffs. If he comes back before the playoffs, that would just be absurd.

Like, they're fine anyway. Yeah. Boards at Lakers are tonight. I'm going to watch that for the Kobe retirement ceremony, for sure. And we got Nuggets at OKC. Yeah, Cantor's best team in the West. So bizarre. The Nuggets are quietly, like, overperforming, in my opinion. Yeah, I don't know what to – they're, to me, the biggest cipher in the NBA. Yeah.

I look at them and I go, you know, and they've obviously had injuries, too. So it's tough to, like, know what they are game to game. But they're fun. I'm really excited, as I always am, for Tuesday's game. LeBron at Janus. Yeah, LeBron at Janus. I'm looking forward to that as well. LeBron always steps it up against, like, those who are heralded to be the next LeBron.

So I know it'll be a good LeBron performance, and I'm pumped for it. I always love when those two play. And then you get on Thursday your concern troll team, the Spurs against the Jazz without Rudy Gobert, who's out two to four weeks with a sprain name. And then next Monday is Christmas Day, the five header, quintuplet header. What is the term for that? I don't know that I think you're inventing the term right now. I think it's a quintupled.

Quintet? Quintet. I don't know. We'll figure it out. These are mostly good games. Sixers at Knicks, looking forward to that. Cats at Warriors, duh. That was the game of the year last year for quite a while.

But that was because of Kyrie Irving. So we'll see. Wiz at Celtics. Nah, that's probably the worst game. That's probably the worst game, exactly. Rockets at OKC won't be great, but still more excited about that than the Wizette Celtics. and Wolves at Lakers, which I plan to attend. Yeah, you were saying that.

We're not going to have a pod next week, by the way, because it is Christmas Day. And also because there's just too much basketball to watch, you're going to go to Wolves Lakers if you could go to any of those games, which would have been. Cavs Warriors. Yeah. Got to go with that one. Yeah, that would be a lot of fun. Although Sixers at Nix is going to be fun, too.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to all of it. We will be back in 2018. Can you believe it? The following week, I'm excited about it. Basketball never stops. I'll see you in L.A. when you get back. Yeah, see you soon. Thanks for listening.

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