The Ringer NBA Show - ‘Heat Check’ — Old Friends and New Foes (Ep. 171)

Episode Date: December 4, 2017

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman and John Gonzalez discuss Chris Paul returning to Los Angeles with the soaring Rockets (0:20), speculate on the possibility of DeAndre Jordan joining his old teammate in Houston (6:36), examine the cratering young Lakers (9:12), and consider the significance of Derrick Rose returning to the dominant Cleveland Cavaliers (13:30). Then, they detail the feud between Andre Drummond and Joel Embiid (18:33), debate the best big men in the league (21:17), recount the bizarre story of Nerlens Noel getting a hot dog during a game (28:38), and run through this week’s most exciting games (32:09). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the Monday heat check. I'm Juliet Litman. I'm John Gonzalez. How are you doing, Gonso? Basketball. Basketball is happening. It never stops. It continues again. Are you familiar with the musical Hamilton? I feel like you've gotten a bad picture of me because before we started the show, I explained to you that like my pop culture intake basically grinds to a halt when the NBA season begins. And I said that's why you're a great employee. You did. But now I now I think that you think that I have this like super myopic worldview and somehow I'm unaware of Hamilton. Yes, I am aware of Hamilton. Well, in the beginning of Hamilton, they're talking about how New York is the greatest city

in the world because everything is happening there. For basketball purposes, L.A. is the greatest city in the world because everything is happening here. True. Including this past weekend, Chris Paul, former Los Angeles resident, returned with the Rockets to play the Lakers. And that was our number one headline, which is what's going on with the Rockets. The Rockets are really good, as it turns out. Julia, we don't talk about them probably enough for not as much as Rockets fans would probably like? What is with these fan bases that are like so salty about national media and not talking about them enough or not talking with them in the right way?

Because the Rockets are one, the Jazz are one. Like there are certain fan bases just get really, oh, the Blazers, they just get really pissed if you don't like give them their due. Everybody. Every fan base. But like Houston, you're the fourth biggest media market. Like you're a national market. We get it.

It's fine. So I think that this is a good way for us to start our overture to Rockets fans. Yeah. Let's get into it. by immediately attacking them. Nine and one over their last 10. They've won seven in a row. Chris Paul is back for the last seven.

Chris Paul is back. Their point differential, Juliet, is really amazing. They're winning on average by 11.4 points, which is tied for tops in the NBA with the Golden State Warriors. Wow. And as we saw with the Lakers game last night, handled them pretty easily, they're a good team. I mean, you said this before we began the pod,

that you can't wait for, what is it, January 4th? Warriors at Rockets. Because we got that game at the beginning of the season. but that's not really a good. It was the second game of the NBA season. Can't gauge by that. No, not at all. So I'm excited for that too.

But really the Rockets, we have to really talk about them now. We've done a lot of, a surprising development here at the Ring, and we've done a lot of conversations about the Boston Celtics and how they might match up with the Golden State Warriors.

But I'm with you. I really want to see this Rockets team now with Chris Paul reincorporated and how they might, you know, go at the Golden State Warriors and how conversely, Steve Kerr might try to match up his guys against them. This is an actual conversation now.

It's one of the most intriguing matchups in the NBA, if not the most. Just because they both have so much shooting, I mean, that's what drives both of these teams. So it will be a shootout. Like, I think we can expect it to be like 135 to 130 or something like that. But the Rockets problem has always been defense, and they're trying a lot harder on defense this year. They are trying a lot harder. They've been much better, as has been pointed out to me by Rockets fans repeatedly. Time and time again.

They are fifth in defensive rating, which I don't know. I don't know how they're doing it. I get that Clint Capella has been really good for them, and that's fantastic. It's still confusing to me how that Rockets team that plays at such incredible pace and is so good offensively has managed this. Lugumbah Mute is having a really good season, too. Okay. Listen, people have made this point to me previously. Chris Vernon, when I filled in for KOC, because KOC was off doing amazing things.

He had made that same point to me. Well, here's why it's relevant. Tell me. Because obviously the team's success hinges on J. James Harden and Chris Paul. Yes. But like we've seen with the Warriors and basically every championship team, role players have to be better than role players.

Like they need to be like, oh, yeah, they need to be like, you know, like a Ron Harper type. We're like, yeah, what a great role player. And you're like, yeah, okay, they're fine, but they really serve a purpose. And so if he's playing well and they can count on him for 15 points a game, then great. He scored three against the Lakers. Great, fine. He's averaging 7.7.

But like, when he pops off, you're like, oh, yeah, good pickup by them. All right. So this is another example of why I don't. I look at the rockets and I still go, huh. Okay. This is kind of confusing to me because, like, Luke, I covered him in Philadelphia when he was with the Sixers. I saw him with the Clippers.

Everybody loves him. He's kind of like you're Jay Crowder. Everyone who's had Jay Crowder on their team is like, no, he's not that good. But from afar, everyone's like, yeah, Jay Crowder, not bad. He's great defensively. I mean, like, Chris Paul absolutely loves him and says all the time, like, you know, I don't need guys to go out there and score points. I want you to get after somebody defensively, and Luke will do that, right?

He can play good defense. I can't believe we're talking about Luke Bambutai this much in this podcast. Let's stop. Let's stop. Let's talk with James Hardin. What's happening right now? Let's talk with James Hardin. All right.

Tell me. I think he's a runaway MVP candidate right now. So that's interesting too because at the beginning of the season, it was all about Janus. And then as the season has progressed, we went, okay, yeah, the Rockets are really good. James Hardin is killing it. It could have been the MVP last year, if not for. And two years ago. Yeah.

I mean, this might be his year. If it's not him, it's got to be LeBron right now. Yeah. He's just playing. really well. He also looks like he's having fun. There's video on Reddit of the Rockets after the Lakers game last night with Chris Paul and James Harden doing like a half court shot contest, like for fun for $200. Like that's a team that's having fun, which I think is more than we can say about like more fun than any I think Hardin team minus the 2012 Thunder and any Chris Paul

team ever before. I've never been like, yeah, that team with Chris Paul seems that they're having a great time. But they do. They seem that they're having fun. I love the, have you seen, I'm sure you have seen the NFL video game commercial, the Madden commercial where the two of them are playing. Chris Paul keeps calling him and annoying him. That's kind of how I love that Chris Paul would poke fun at himself that way, but that's kind of how I imagine sometimes Chris Paul grating on his teammates and his teammates just trying to. Yeah, absolutely. But that's not happening this year. And you even, you mentioned that they went out, right? Yes, they went out last night to Nightingale,

which is a hot club in West Hollywood. There was like a huge fight outside of it. It's, it's, it's, Oh, there was? Yeah, but they weren't a part of it. So good for them. That's actually kind of like best case scenario if you're going to be seen at the club. It's like there's a fight going on and you're not involved. You're just like, no, this isn't for me. All of these things that you bring to this podcast are important because I don't see any of them.

Because all I can only watch basketball and like walk my dogs and hang out with my wife. And so you tell me about like things that are happening in L.A. Look, we live in this amazing city. I don't know anything about it. TMZSports.com is like one of my most important websites. I need you to funnel all of that to me. So they went out, they had a good time. Yeah, and the other subplot that Sam Amick has brought to the four today in the USA Today,

and thanks to him for his reporting, is that Chris Ball still talks to DeAndre Jordan every day? Every day. So this was really interesting. I saw Sam Amick. He's been in L.A. for a couple of days now through last week he was running around with the Lakers. Is he beats in Sacramento? Did I make that? I don't know.

I don't know. But if I see him again. Shouts to him. If he's still in town, I will ask him where he's located and I'll pass that back to you. But I thought it was interesting because, obviously, the Rockets were here to play the Lakers, but this became a clipper story because obviously Chris Paul

back in town. Well, I will say also Chris Paul set that up by himself by giving ESPN that, like, fake documentary. It's only fake in that Chris Paul obviously just like filmed himself and knew it was going on. So I'm hesitant to call it Verite,

but he really kind of set this narrative himself by talking about how he disliked the culture and just wanted to get out of L.A. So of course it's going to be a headline when he's back. Yes, but the subplot of, I think the way that he steered it towards D'Andre or maybe Sam specifically asked about it,

but Chris was obviously happy to talk about D'Andre, how they're still really tight. Let's not forget what happened a couple of years ago when they had to go down to Houston and like sequester themselves in D.J.'s house And make sure that he signed back with the Clippers. And so in this story that Sam Amick had, he floated the idea of what if D'Andre Jordan ends up,

if not at the trade deadline, then after the season in Houston with the Rockets, because, again, D'Andre Jordan from Houston, potential free agent in the off season, he's got a player option for $24.1 million. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. And people are automatically anticipating him opting out

because of what's happening with the Clippers. I don't know. That's a lot of money. I guess he probably still gets that on the open market, but we said how many teams need a DeAndre Jordan? It's also difficult to gauge, like, if he goes somewhere, will he be willing to resign?

It's kind of the Paul George problem that OKCC just decided to take a flyer on, which is basically like if he's there for the rest of the season, And is it a rental or will he stay? And do you want him to stay? Yeah, and do the Rockets need and want a D'Andre Jordan? That's the other thing. I don't know if they do.

I mean, Clint Capello's been really good for them. Yeah, I know. If this team is working, they're kind of like unproven. Like, I don't know why you would make another, like, big in-season trade for them right now. But it's an interesting idea. Sure. Like, the story was fun to read and... It's also just a really interesting narrative, like, in terms of, like, more meta-basketball.

Like, there's Paul wanting you to know that he's still cool with DeAndre Jordan. and clearly not cool with Doc. And for all of that culture talk, like, are we all supposed to think it's Blake? I don't know. It's just an interesting mix of factors going on. All things turning up CP3 right now in Houston. On the opposite end, though,

the team that they played last night here in L.A., the Lakers, not quite as good. A week ago after Larry Nance came back, Juliet, I was at Lakers practice, and Larry Nance was talking about how the Lakers still had their eye on that eighth spot, which I thought was really ambitious of them. and since not as good.

Lost five in a row, including that game to the Rockets. Lonzo Ball didn't play the last 16 minutes of the game. They lost a tight one to the Warriors as well. Yeah, they did. The Warriors were never going to lose that game. It was kind of funny to listen to them after that game, say, yeah, you know, we just had to like... Focus.

Right. And what did you go to overtime? So you wrote Lonzo sat the last 16 minutes. Yeah. Let's call this what it is. Lonzo got benched. Yeah. Lonzo was benched.

So he finished over four with two points, just only 22 minutes played. This is tough. for the Lonzo Hive. It's very, it's very discouraging. It's been a weird season for him. Like the couple of triple doubles, you see these flashes and you think, okay, like, yes, he is the youngest player to do that and he has some ability. But as I've maintained, you were at a game where you and I had the exact same takeaway. Like there was a ringer slack where people were going, man, Lonzo's good. And I was watching the game. And I'm like, he doesn't look like

he wants to be involved in the game. I like the way that he moves the ball. But that I think would be better suited to a team where you have a lot of really good pieces and there's like a coherent offense. Luke Walton says all the time, we don't have one guy, right? We have a group of guys who are still trying to figure it out. And as a result, you don't have like somebody who can take over the game. And Lonzo definitely doesn't ever look like he wants to do that. No. And you know what's kind of weird about Luke Walton saying is that like they actually do and it's Brandon Ingram and like he's just not quite good enough yet. But like the one person to invest in it on that team. It would be Brandon Engram. Yeah. And I think he just says that

like a PR move to not count out Lonzo, basically. But they're so young. They're a mess. And they're still learning. So I saw this quote from Tanya Ganguly from the LA Times last night where Luke Walton was talking about how the turnovers are killing them. They're still trying to figure it out. And the part that really popped off Twitter from what he said was he said, we do drills. The players joke are like high school drills.

They do these in practice. But that's what's come to. He has to do high school drills with his kids. That says everything. I mean, like they all. are still kids, right? I mean, like, they're 19 and 20 years old, and they're still not getting it. And a year ago, I wrote a piece for The Ringer where it was like, hey, they're young and fun again.

Now they're just young. They're just young. It's kind of a bummer. And meanwhile, the Lakers have introduced the LeVar Ball Rule, which is no friends or families behind the basket near the visiting tunnel are allowed to speak to the media after games. Yeah. So this is like taking away LeVar's pulpit. Well, they did that. And then they also, they were like really kind of cracking down a little bit.

So if you go to a game and you're a media member, you can print a, you can. pretty much have free reign of most areas of the building. So now that one area is restricted. Now, previous, they're saying that this was a rule beforehand. They're just enforcing it now. They never enforced it before. You could talk to pretty much anybody. Now you're going to have to go to a different area to do it. But the other part that they've done in conjunction with it is during pregame shootarounds, and this is something you'll see if you're a media member or if you're a fan and you get there early and you'll see people like sitting around the court while the pregame warmups go on, media members will sit basically where the team sits.

You can sit anywhere and just watch. The Lakers have now made that a restricted area on their end of the floor. So you can't sit near where the Lakers are doing their pregame shoot around. You'll have to sit somewhere else and look across the court. It's a rocky star for the Rob Blinka era. Let me tell you. I haven't seen much of Rob lately. I would like more.

He's around. He hasn't been doing a lot of talking, but he's around. You see him, he's at practice a lot. He's hanging around before games a lot. I think I'm going to go to the Christmas Day game. So maybe I'll see him there. All right. I like it.

I'm flying back that day. Maybe I'll meet you there. Okay. I will say they may be trying to take away the staple center, Paul, but Lavar Ball will still find a way to speak to the media, including we're going to have him on sources say on Wednesday because I used to pre-taped an interview a couple days ago. And he just says bombastic things, including what you'll hear on Wednesday.

I can't wait to hear this. I would recommend tuning in for it. I very rarely tease my own work, but like it's Levar Ball. And, of course, he said wild things. No, it's cross-promotional. I like this. The heat check pod, big fan of sources say. Oh, thanks, man. Really, really appreciate that. From the bottom of the league to the top of the league, the cats are back where they belong. They've won 11 in a row. At the beginning of the year, you and I mildly worried.

I'm embarrassed. I just feel embarrassed. Like, why did I question LeBron James? It's never a good idea to bet against LeBron. Yeah. My- Unless it's the finals, then it's really 50-50. But still, just never bet against LeBron. Never bet against LeBron James. Here's what we know about LeBron James. One, he doesn't care about the regular season to the extent that everybody else in the league cares about it because he has already figured out that they're going to make it through and be fine. And two, once they do make it through the regular season and get into the playoffs, LeBron James is an absolute monster and the Cavas become, or previously the Miami Heat, become a completely different entity because the regular season is just the setup for him. Once he gets in the seat, like literally last year,

they gave away top seating in the East to the Celtics because LeBron James said, I'm going to sit down for the last couple of games, and you can have the seed because it doesn't matter. Totally. And it still doesn't matter. And if you're not voting for Hardin, you're voting for LeBron for MVP right now. So he's still the best. And the other thing is, yeah, they're old, and their defense probably will be a problem in the playoffs against the Rockets or the Warriors and maybe even the Celtics.

But it also means that these are veterans who won't let like an early season skid, like submarine their whole season. So they're fine. Yeah, they're back at it. They're going to get Derek Rose back. so I guess everything's fine. I just want to say all the reporting about the story has come from Wojj. And a little David Madameen as well.

I feel like there's a conspiracy, a foot in your brain. Tell me about it. It's not a conspiracy, but it's just like it's not like this is a story that can be openly reported or easily reported. You basically have to have access to Derek Rose and his representatives. Which good luck on that. Yeah, which is really hard. So on the one hand, I would say Derek Rose is handling this story well. Like if you're not going to be with your team, get out in front of it and talk about why.

But on the other hand, we basically only. only have this information from one source. So I don't know. Just want to mention that. It's a little curious, but what Woj is reporting, the athletics said that Rose might be coming back. Yes. And then Woj says he is back.

He's on the road. Yeah. The Cavs are basically saying that he's back. He's talking to his doctors. The story also said that Rose is not really talking to anyone, but BJ Armstrong has been in close conversation with the team and Kobe Altman. So again, how do you know that? You've got to kind of talk to people?

Yeah. At least talk to LeBron. Also, and I said this story. producer Isaac Lee earlier, I think it's a little curious that in the Wode report, it says that Rose is going to talk to Cavs doctors and begin rehab on his ankle, begin rehab. Right. He's been out for a while. He's not playing again for a while. What was he doing while he was just sitting like was he just sitting around with a gimp ankle? Like what was it? Like it was dangling off his leg and he wasn't bothering to treat it. This seems, this is all very curious. Yes. It really is. Good luck to him,

I guess. But the Cavs back. Caves back. We're going to talk more about some big men in the NBA. and more of what's going on in the league. But first, let's talk about our sponsors. Let me tell you about Framebridge. If you've ever seen photos of the ringer offices or our podcast studio, you've probably noticed how nice our walls look. That's because our friends at Framebridge.com

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And we're back because we need to talk about your friend, Joelle Ambide. So this was a really interesting game. The Sixers hosted the Pistons. And there was a lot of back and forth previously. On Saturday night, there's a lot of disrespect by both sides, despite the fact that Embed said no disrespect about Andre Drummond, but he can't shoot. That's like when you start a sentence with no offense, but. Yeah, so there's always a fence coming.

There was also some sound from Andre Drummond, who had some things to say about Joel Embedit. You're looking forward to the battle tomorrow. If he plays, you know, you might need another rest day. Zing. Yeah, he said that he's been playing for six years and he's missed maybe four or five games, which Isaac points out as inaccurate. He put that in our outline saying that Drummond missed 21 games his rookie year due to a stress

fracture. But since then he's been... It is back. Yeah. I mean, like, if you're going to sit out, that's a pretty good reason to sit out. But since then, Drummond has been really durable. That's right. Back pain, no joke. But also, Drummond's been really good this year. I mean, one of the big surprises in that he's hitting free throws. He's been a much better passer than people, I think, realized he's leading the league in rebounds. He's just, he's been really good. Then MB kind of served it to him. Like, he had a really, he had a really good game. He had a really good game, 25 points and 10 rebounds. Drummond was good, too. I mean, but Drummond fouled out.

This is a good line, though. It's 1411, 6, 5, 1, 6, 4, 8 from the line. That's an incredible line. He had an incredible line, but he also found out. Did you see what M.B. did when he filed out? I think he gave him some directions. I screencapped it and tweeted it out in case you care to go back and look at it. But basically, he just pops into frame.

It was perfect timing. It was almost like he knew where the camera was. He popped into frame like he was directing traffic at the airport and started pointing to the exits. As he fouled out in the crowd, you know, of course. ushered drummond off the court, but it was a fantastic game. And then afterwards, they hugged it out. It was fun. That's nice. That's the kind of rivalry I enjoy. Like talk shit, play hard. And then, you know, have a handshake and move on. And then we'll see you again for the next matchup. So after the game, though, Julia, like, Joel and Bede, not lacking for confidence. He goes on NBA TV.

And he's talking about this rivalry and how the two of them were like going at each other beforehand. But then they were fine afterwards. And he was asked what he thinks of himself and where he falls in the pecking order. Who's the best big man in all of basketball? I mean, you're looking at him right here. I mean, I deal with them both fans defensively, offensively. You know, some people might have some other opinion about it, but I know that I am, and I know that people are saying that now because, you know, I do. I'm both fans.

He does it on both of them, Juliet. He does, though. Correct. So this brings us to an all big man. edition of Real or Not Real. Yes. I wish I were big. That was probably the last movie I saw Big.

It's been a long time. Basketball doesn't stop. So Embed says he's the best big man in the NBA. Juliet, real or not real, is he? A lot of people in the mix here. You got Demarcus, Porzengis, Anthony. We're using Big Man as Power Forward Zan centers. Sure.

Carl Anthony Town, so I guess has decided to never play defense again. Drummond. Weird, really weird town season. Weird. Yeah. He's definitely headed. a new team is my take. What? I mean, like, if not, like, definitely not in a trade, but, like, in free agency. I don't see him staying in Minnesota. Interesting. J.M.T. is just my thoughts.

They can't move on just yet, but what about, uh, there's Jokic Gober is coming back. Where, where do you put Embed in this next? Here's the thing about M. Bid. I don't know if I'm willing to say best. Like, I think Buggie is, like, really unimpeachable. However, if I'm building a team and I'm starting over, of course I pick M. Bid. Yeah, I think if the question is for right now, I don't know that I'd take M. Bid, like, right now in this moment, because DeMarcus Cousins is having a bened. I would rather have boogie, like, for the rest of the season. For right now.

But for the next five years, I'd rather have Embed. For the future, moving on, it's Embed all day, every day. Because his talent is so outsized. And let's not forget, he hasn't even played a full season in the NBA yet. John Mide hasn't forgotten. Don't worry. It's insane what he's been able to do in such limited action. And the idea of what he could do if he does stay healthy, it's exciting.

Yeah. I'm excited, Juliet. I don't know if you noticed. Yeah, I mean, he's really fun. The Sixers are remain fun. DeMarcus is a team. better than Anthony Davis, real or not real? It's real.

Oh, definitely real. So news today from the Pelicans is that Anthony Davis's MRI was negative, which was good, so he's day to day. But, like, I don't know. He gets hurt so much. All the time. He's almost on the Embed level. Over the weekend, various reports had him alternately in a wheelchair and on crutches for a groin injury.

So, like, it's really unfortunate. He's had such, like, a wide scope, a wide array of injuries in his career. And it happens every season. I mean, you just wait to hear what the next one is with Anthony Davis, and it's a real shame because he is so talented. And those two guys together, I wasn't sure about that fit last year. I've really liked the way that the Pelicans have handled their team this year. And the Pelicans are a legit contender in the Western. Yeah, absolutely.

Like, they're going to be, I don't mean legit contender to win the Western Conference. I mean, like, they're going to be in the playoffs or at least look like they're pushing in that direction. And I think that's interesting because I don't think a lot of people had the Pelicans that, you know, right now they're one. We had them like 13th in the conference in our preseason rankings. Right. They're in the ace seat as of our conversation right now. So it's not like they're firmly in the Western Conference playoffs. But I look at the way the West is shaping up.

You've got the jazz. They're going to get Gobert back. Who knows what to make of the Oklahoma City Thunder. And after that, there's a massive drop off. Yeah, absolutely. So they have to fade one team, basically. I think they could do it. And also, it would be cool if Boogie was the one who carried them there.

As opposed to everybody saying, like, at the trade dead. line, Boogie is gone, right? I mean, like, that's what we've been bracing for all season long. No, I don't think he'll get traded. Now I look at it and go, I think you got to hold on to Boogie and see what happens. He's been really good. Can I ask you just for a gut check? Please.

Among our heat check pod. Who's the next super top 25 player to get traded? This is tough. Just what's your first answer? A top 25 player? Could it be Marcus Hall? Oh, this is good. See, you're setting me up and I wasn't even thinking about it.

Marcusole would be great. Markosol would be perfect. I'm actually advocating for it. Real or not real that the gris should tank and trade Markisol? I'll answer the question. Yes, they should do both of those things. The gris have completely fallen apart in the absence of Mike Conley, who by the way, I guess like my Philadelphia accent came out last week.

You're saying Connolly? I was saying Connolly and I couldn't help myself. But anyway, Mike Conley being out has really tanked the gris. They might as well just embrace it. They got rid of Fisdale. It's been absolutely brutal. Markisole needs to go somewhere else. Yeah.

He's got to get out. Also, what a weird franchise. They have the whole ownership thing going on now. Yeah, they're selling the team. They have one of the worst contracts in the league with Chandler. They've got Chandler Parsons. They need to hit the reset button hard. And Marcosol is too talented to just sit there and flounder.

I would like to see, and this is like really like pie in the sky because as you mentioned to me, there's no possible way for this to happen. But double Gasolme. Yeah. Let's get into San Antonio with the Spurs. How much fun would that be? It would be awesome. I would love to see that.

Also, I'm interested to see where David Fis is. goes next. He's pretty beloved in the league. Like, first of all, he has the LeBronco sign. He was a major part of the Heat Championships. Steve Kerr defended him on the BS pod. Yes. Like, people like him. So I wonder if he will hold out for the next open, like, could he be the Clippers coach

or something? Or will he just become an assistant somewhere? Yeah. When Kerr was armed with Simmons, he like just could not have been more effusive in his praise about Fisdale. Yeah. He's really well liked. Except for by Marcus Hall, apparently.

Yeah. Let's move on to our heat check, heat check. All right. A couple of players we need to check in on here. First of all, Mr. Austin Rivers, what a week he had last week. First of all, he got engaged. Congratulations. Congratulations.

Second of all, he injured his teammate, the star of his team, Blake Griffin. They were playing the Lakers, right? Yes. It was not the Lakers' fault, even though that's what Doc was saying. So he injured Blake, who is now out up to two months per Woj. And then he got fined $25,000, which is a lot for any human. It's like a pretty sizable fine in the NBA, particularly when you're Austin Rivers. it's not like you're a max player.

And he was fine because he cursed out a fan in a loss to the jazz at home. So it was a fan in Los Angeles. This is my favorite part about this whole thing. Like, players get upset. It happens. Everybody's human. Sometimes you lose your temper. But when I saw that he had gotten fine, I was like, oh, you know, I missed this.

So let me go back and figure out when it happened. I saw the jazz. And I'm like, wait a minute. Didn't they play the jazz at home? It would be one thing if he got into it with a fan on the road. like, remember last year when the Thunder were in Philadelphia and that guy was given the double bird to Russell Westbrook and Russell Westbrook got into it with the guy? I'm like, okay, well, like, Philadelphians are assholes. Like, I get it.

You're on the road. That happens. He was at home. Incredible. I would like to track. I don't know if we can do this, but I would like to track which team has the most fights with their fans at home. And it's got to be the Clippers, right? I don't know.

Poor Clippers fans. Like, what do you have to? I don't care. I feel, well, yeah, that's part of the reason why I feel so bad for Clippers fans, because if you're a Clippers fan, one, you've chosen this life of misery. Yeah. Right? You've, like, chosen to be the second team in your own town. And Isaac, our producer is one of these Clippers fans, he's one of only two Clippers fans I've ever met in my life.

And he was describing to me their main rivalry. And I'm doing air quotes right now. And he was saying, like, it's the Memphis Grizzlies. Oh, because it took about two years in the playoffs? Right, but you had to think about it. And I was like, really? And I'm like, that's such a sad statement about Clippers' fandom. All of their rivals have moved on.

In the Grizzlies case, they've moved on to like internal problems. And with the Warriors, it was just like too good. They beat them every time for the last like 14 games. So whatever. If you're the Clippers, you'd want a beef for a rivalry. And they really can't find one. They can't get one. Speaking of beef, this is my transition.

New Orleans Noel, Juliet. How great is this? Is it all beef or is it partially pork? I don't know. It could be kosher. We don't even know. During the game the other night at halftime for the Mavericks, this is so great.

He decided he was hungry, and he went into the press mess and got himself a hot dog at halftime. And he was the only MAV on the roster to have a DMPCD. Yeah, so he said that he needed energy for the second half, even though he was most likely not going to play and did not play. And he gave a statement afterwards, and, you know, he apologized. He said he should be smarter about it and send a ballboy next time. I'm going the other way on this. I'm on Team Nerlin's a while.

Like, what did he do? Like, do you know why he's so hated by Rick Carlisle and by the maps? I don't know. And here's the other thing. So Rick Carlisle, like, afterwards set up, like, this media redemption for New Orleans Noel where he's like, you're going to apologize. Rick Carlisle was standing next to him while it was happening and giving him like a weird look.

But then he made a joke about it and said, I'm going to set Nerlands Noel up with, like, a local hot dog restaurant. And maybe he can get an endorsement. So he was like kind of making light of it. It's such an odd relationship. It's so weird. And I actually don't know why it's not more like studied or like people aren't more angry about it. Like should we have the same sympathy for Noel that we have for Okifor?

Neither are played by their teams. Noel is better than Okophor. Noel could contribute. He's not. Oh, Noel's infinitely better. He's good. Yeah, I really like. What's his sin?

Like if I don't know. If I'm the union. I guess not taking that deal. I guess like making the Mavs wait. That clearly pissed them off. Look, you can't tell me that he can't help that team because he is a much better passer than people understand. He can run the floor.

He can protect the rim. He's not a good shooter, but he doesn't slow the offense because he knows he's not a good shooter. He's not like some end of the bench guy, though. No, it doesn't make sense. If I was the MVP, I'd be like, what is going on here? I don't know. I obviously don't have all the information.

I don't think anyone does outside of the Mavs organization, but it's a really weird one to me that I actually am surprised more people aren't angry about it. It's a very strange situation. I do, however, love. and fully endorse him going and getting a hot talk. Which, by the way, this happens more than people realize, not at halftime, but frequently, like, when I'm in,

where the media gathers for their pre-game meal, players will come in. Like, last year when Rudy Gaubert got hurt, and they were playing the Clippers in the playoffs, he ate dinner with us a couple times. Like, I was just sitting down at a table, and I looked up, and all of a sudden, Rudy Gaubert was at my table.

And I guess because the pre-game meal was, like, not enough for him in the jazz locker So he came and joined us. The most legendary pregame eater is dark who walks in with his plate, like holding a plate with like the foil over it. Oh yeah. You got to make sure it's tented and stays hot. Two more quick ones.

I just want to say, I think the refs, we might need to put them on notice. A lot of ejections. K.D., Sean Livingston, LeBron, Anthony Davis. There was the double ejection of Yokic and Malone. The Yokich one was later rescinded. Just like quick trigger fingers here. Yeah, a little odd. I just wanted to note it.

And lastly, when the Warriors, visited the Heat. I believe that was yesterday. Someone asked Katie, but playing Dion Waiters. And he just was like so full of mirth and happiness talking about his old teammate. And he said, I got a mansion on Waiters Island. I own some property. Shout out to Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe, the originators of that meme. Katie isn't on it. I actually love Katie's love for Dion. He's talked about it with Bill on that pod before. And I think it's like a very sweet relationship. I love Dion. Big fan. Philly Guy. This weekend basketball tonight. We have Bucks at Celtics. That's a fun one. Then we also have Golden State Warriors of Pelicans.

That would have been obviously more interesting with Anthony Davis in the mix, but Boogie unleashed by himself. I have a prediction. Go ahead. Tell me. Jordan Bell is going to try to, like, do something to, like, prove himself against Buggy, and Buggy's just going to destroy him. And I'm looking forward to it.

I think Jordan Bell needs to be taken down a notch. Careful when you test yourself against Buggy. Exactly. Also, the Pistons on a two-game losing streak, trying to bounce back against the Spurs. And we think we're getting closer to Kauai returning. Probably not tonight, but maybe soon. Yeah, I hope he comes back soon.

And then Saturday, Rockets of Blazers. Rockets of Blazers. You skipped over one on Thursday. Lakers at Sixers, but this isn't going to be a blowout. Sixers are going to win by a lot. Well, it's the revenge game possibly for the Lakers losing here in L.A. When Embed had that monster line, the 46, 15, 7 and 7 line. So that should be a fun one too.

Yeah. That's on Thursday. We're in a good season with the league right now. We're really moving along. We're hitting our stride. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for listening. I'm Julieta Litman.

I'm John Gonzalez. I'll be back next week. and listen to the ringer NBA show all week long. Sources say on Wednesday with LeVar Ball. Very strange. Okay. Hope everyone enjoys that one. And I hope you enjoyed this.