The Ringer NBA Show - ‘Heat Check’: The Jimmy Butler-for-MVP Campaign Starts Here (Ep. 191)

Episode Date: January 15, 2018

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman and John Gonzalez check in on the state of the NBA through the first half of the season (0:34), preview Chris Paul's return to play the surging Los Angeles Clippers (15:20), laud the NBA’s efforts regarding social activism (26:15), review some quirky stories coming out of last week (35:52), and look forward to this week’s slate of games (39:34). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Seatkeek is the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events, concerts, and more. For $20 off your first Seatkeekkeek purchase on any game or sporting event, all you have to do is use our promo code. It's ringer NBA. That's one word, ringer NBA. Download the Seatkeek app or go right to Seatkeek.com. It's heatkech. Welcome to the Monday Heat Check.

Martin Luther King Jr. Day edition. I'm Juliet Littman. I'm John Gonzalez. What's up, John? We have another podcast. There's a lot of basketball today. Full slate of games today. Full slate of games, before we get into everything, we have a big show to get into,

and we'll get into some MLK Jr. Day talking points as well. But I wanted to give shouts to our producer, Isaac Lee, for our new theme music that we didn't call out last week. You killed it, dude. Nicely done. Great stuff. Lovely way to start at this podcast. Yes. Let's get into it. Let's start with some headlines. We're in the middle of the season. It's the midpoint, believe it or not. Most teams have played like 45 or so games. How do you feel? Do you feel like you're still running the race? You're not fatigued yet?

I'm ready to go. I'm like, you're energized. I'm ready for the second half sprint. This is great. Yeah. Everyone's watching football and I was like, who's watching Warriors Raptors? What a game we got here in Toronto? Drinks there.

You missed a couple of good NFL games. I watched them. You did. Yeah, I was at a bar for the Vikings game, so that was exciting. You lead quite a life. You tell me all about these like wonderful things you do on the weekend. I got to hang out with you more. Well.

Or at all. Sure. Yeah, I'd love to. What is your biggest surprise so far of this season, 45 games in? So we're going to do biggest surprise and biggest disappointment in my. minor linked. Okay. We're going to start for May with the rookie class.

Oh, okay. The rookie class, I did not expect to be this good. There have been a lot of, like, individual performers who have, obviously were big fans of Jason Tatum, obligatory weekly call out of Jason Taylor. Congratulations, Jason Tatum, a father. He has, Jason Tatum Jr. was born last week per Instagram. That kid's going to be Duncan, like, within a week. Dunking.

He'll be a great three-point shooter. He'll be getting fit. All of it. The kid's already very versatile. Brad Stevens will have him play in 15 minutes. the game before the week's out. It's going to be fantastic. JT.J. Shout out to him. Congratulations. Jason Tatum on. I was unaware of that. But just like the depth of quality in this draft class, I didn't expect. Sure. We got Dennis Smith. Lari Markinen has been really good. Frank Milakina's pretty

good. And then my guy, Don Mitchell. I still call him Don. He's done. He's just Don. He's been so good. I really have enjoyed. Ben Simmons. Right. Can't forget, but I frequently forget to call out Ben Simmons for this draft class because I guess he's not in this draft class. He's a red shirt draft class. But I'm talking about just specifically, like before, true rookies. Before anybody, like, loses their shit in Philadelphia and gets angry at me, I'm talking about just the 2017 draft class. Fair enough. And also, I guess Lonzo Ball.

Yeah, I think Lonzo's getting better, too. It's been better. Yeah. But it's been fun to watch. What about you? My biggest surprise, I think, is the number of mediocre teams. Like, we were really expecting, like, a big race in the West. And there are a lot of good teams.

But the Thunder who have been, like, middling at best and more on them in a minute are number five in the West. Like, they're fine. And at one point where they're even going to make the playoffs, like, yes, they are. And the quality of competition isn't, like, quite, that's not true. The competition is good, but just sort of, like, there aren't many teams, like, just blowing you out every night as we expected. It's interesting that you bring up, like, that middle class.

I wrote a piece about this last week on the ringer.com about how basically, like, now with the Warriors and everybody trying to catch the Warriors and the assembly of teams that you might call super teams that try to compete with them, like the Rockets and the Boston, and they tried to, before Gordon Hayward went down, RIP, they were trying to pair him with Kyrie Irvin, and then you've got the Cavs and all these teams that are trying to compete with them, and then you've got the tankers at the other end. That middle class is an interesting spot to be stuck in.

Like, you've got the Miami Heat who, you know, maybe a decade ago, you'd look at their assembly of talent and go, like, this is a pretty good team, but it is pretty good, good enough for you? Yeah, I don't think so. And like the top four teams in the West are really solid. And then five through eight are the Thunder, Pelicans, Blazers, Nuggets, and one game separates those four teams. Like those could be reoriented at any point.

You know what I mean? And it's just surprising to me that they aren't better. Like I did my All-Star ballot. Oh, you did? Yeah. I like it. How to go? I'll tell you my teams.

All right. Do it. In the east, we got LeBron, DeMarre, Kairie, M. Bede, and Janus. You're doing this off the dome too, right? Yeah. You haven't written this down. Yeah. I like that you've committed to memory.

Thank you. This is the first year I haven't voted for Chandler Parsons in like five years. I just couldn't. And then in the West, I went Steph, Clay, KD, which means no Hardin, which is obviously, I know that's like a ridiculous oversight, but I got to hope for Clay. He's my guy. I like it. You're committed to your brand.

Exactly. And then AD and Bogie. So that's- These are great teams. Five players from two teams. But the Pelicans are 22 and 20. This is actually maybe like what we had prognosticated preseason, but they should be better.

Like, did you watch the Pelicans in the Knicks yesterday at all? I did not. It was on in the bar. Otherwise, it wouldn't have either. Right. And the Pelicans, they came back. like the Knicks were going to win. They won an overtime. Boogie, like, made an inexplicable pass to the Knicks in the first, like, two minutes of the game. And you're just like, yeah,

this is the Pelicans. Like, this is the problem. But then they just like, they can be so great. They can be. And this sort of like middle of the pack in the West is that's the problem. As they say, they show flashes. But that's about it. But so in years past, like in the David Stern era, we would have called this parody, no? Yes, we would have gone, oh, look at all these teams that are like, they got to compete with each other. Very NFL-like. In fact, even, if you extracted it, if this was a 29 team league, we'd go, wow, the NBA, anybody could win it this year. Yeah.

It's just that one team that really kind of skews the results. That's true. That's a good point. In some ways, it makes it exciting because, like, any given day, like, the nuggets are in eight right now, they can jump to five because it's literally only one game back of the Thunder who are in five. So it makes the rest of the season matter. Like, the race for the playoffs is going to be important. Yeah, absolutely. What's your biggest disappointment so far?

On that note, my biggest appointment is The Thunder. I just want it better. I'm sad for you. I know. It sucks. I think the main thing is I don't want Russ to have the reputation of like, can't play with that guy. And until they're really like consistently guiding out good wins and winning at home all the time,

it's going to be hard to like defend him. It's the consistency component that's really the problem with the thunder because what? A week or two ago, you and I were on this very podcast. And they're like, yeah, they're figuring it out. Talking about how they figured it out. And then all of a sudden we look up and we go, oh, right, they're only five and five over their last 10.

And for every two steps forward, there's one step back. There are 500 team. And that's a bummer. Yeah. Like, they're going to hover around that NBA equator. And, like, it's unfortunate because that assembly of talent, you would expect them to be greater than that. And then, you know, by comparison, we look at the Minnesota Timberwolves who they're

trailing in the standings. And, like, the Timberwolves really have figured it out. They have. And they've got, like, a new group of talent, too. And despite that, they've been able to, you know, work through, um, those early season issues and come out the better. And the thunder are still, I don't know, they're still confused, I guess.

On the note of the wolves, do we start the Jimmy Butler for MVP campaign here? Like, should we wait? This is the hottest of takes. I was not aware of this. Is it, though? Is it? I don't think it's that hot of a take. He's playing really well.

He's very good. The best player on that team. Clearly. Without him, they are not in. They're what they've been. Yes. They're what they've been in the past. And now they are like a legitimate second tier.

team in the NBA. No, they're really good. That game yesterday, they crushed the Blazers yesterday. I mean, the Blazers could not get into that game at all. Butler put basically the entire Blazers team in foul trouble. That game I watched. It was fun, by the way, to watch that game with all the people trickling over from the Vikings game.

Oh, nice. Yeah, we're in Vikings jerseys. But Jimmy Butler for MVP, I was not prepared for this team. I just want you to think about it. We can discuss it more next week. I just want to throw it out there. This might be like a story idea, too. You might have, you might have tipped our hand.

too early. I think the other factor there is that Wiggins is just better with Butler. Wiggins is like a good number three and that's what he is on this team. Yeah. No, it puts them into a completely different role. Just think about it. I will think about it. I'm actually thinking about it now. You've thrown me completely off.

Sorry. What's your biggest disappointment? My biggest disappointment again is tied to the rookie class. It's Mark Hellfoltz. So yesterday... I regret to inform you that you cannot purchase any property. There's nothing in your price range on Never Injured Island where I've been living for a while. This is a cruel blow. You've, you've struck yet another blow to my ego and the

ego of all Philadelphians. So there were video, there was video yesterday from Sixers practice of Markell Fultz getting shots up. Woff, was there ever? Not good. Here's what's worse. After practice, Brett Brown was asked about Markle Fultz and whether or not he needed to be 100% physically in order to return the court. And according to Kyle Newbeck and Derek Bodner and the other Sixers reporters who were on hand, his immediate response was, I think what he needs, to be is able to shoot a basketball. Brett Brown, what the hell? Right after he said that, he said this.

Oops, I said the quiet part loud and the loud part quiet. He said that out loud. It's rough. That's very rough. Like, I almost, like, I basically wanted to take a hammer to my computer machine when I saw that come across Twitter. This is not good, Juliet. Like, is he going to play this year?

I think not. I think he does not play. I've noticed that Joelle and B goes out of his way to. to have Fultz appear on his Instagram story. But he's kind of the only one and also the only one that Embed does that for pretty much. Actually, it's not true. Justin Anderson will make an appearance as well.

But that just seems to be like a weird trio that I don't know if that speaks well for the Sixers. It's not good. Sixers are just a daily joy at the ringer, though. There's always so much to parse. Always. Are you worried about the Cavs? They're in third in the East.

They are behind the Raptors and the Celtics. And they are seven games out of first, but there's actually a lot to make up at this point in the season. Yeah. It's nearly, I would say it's not impossible, but quite hard. Three and seven over their last 10 is a little bit of a hiccup. I'll give you the same answer. I generally give when I talk about the calves in the regular season.

We have no idea. I'm not worried about them because it's the regular season. Right. Like playoff, LeBron is a different LeBron, which makes the calves different. But the reincorporation of Isaiah Thomas, that defense, you wonder. I mean, like, they're barely a plus. point differential at plus one. You'd like to see a little bit more out of them, but

it's still LeBron, it's still the Cavs. They should be fine in the playoffs. What about some of like the other supporting players that should raise concern? Like, Dwayne Wade turned 36 yesterday days ago. Is he 36? Yeah. That's old. Yes, it's old. And no, you forgot, right?

Yeah, it's old. Tristan Thompson is like, can't get traded because he's not good enough anymore. Right. He's a victim of the Kardashian curse. Sorry to the Kardashians and Jeff Van Gundy. I was never a Tristan Thompson guy with the exception of the playoffs last year against Boston. He played really, really well. But yeah, he's fine.

Their assembly of like of supporting characters, the supporting cast is just fine, full stop. Yeah. It's not like a blow you a team, but they have the best player in the world. That helps. It's impossible to say, I will say, I wonder if travel will make a bigger difference on an older team. Like, if they end up in third and let's assume the Raptors stay in second and they both make it to the, second round. That would be then two series, and then like even if the cabs won, that would be a series earlier than they're used to being on the road. You know what I mean? When they're not,

when they don't have home court advantage. And I wonder if for an older team that actually matters. I tend to think like as travel goes for professional teams. It's not, it's not as bad as like, commercial travel for every other human on the planet. Like, yes, they travel a shit ton. And you can, you can bring your hyperbaric chamber with you. As we've got your chamber. You've got, you know, like, come on. They're feeding you grapes. Like, sure. Could be worse.

Sure. What's the thing you're most excited for the second half of the season? I want to see who comes out of the east. Okay. I still think it's the Cavs. As number one, or just to the finals. To reach the finals. That's, yeah.

I don't think the Cavs will end up as the one seat and I don't think it matters. If I had a handicap it, I'd still say the calves are going to come out of the East and play the Warriors again because, as we noted, they have the best player on the planet and he's just like a completely different entity once the postseason begins. however, probably the most question I've had about it in the last however many years. Are you willing to believe in the Raptors? I believe in the Raptors. They're good. They are good. I'm so happy Kyle Lowry's not, like, badly injured. That would have been such a

huge bummer. I think he'll be out for a few games, but he's like not out for the season. Thank God. I can't claim this as an original point. It actually, it just got me thinking about something that I already thought. But Bill's boy, Haralabob talked about this on Twitter yesterday. Demar de Rosen deserves a ton of credit. A ton. For really, elevating his game. He's always been good. He is now great. Would you give him MIP? It's hard because he was already so good. When I think about Most Improved, I generally think about like a younger player who takes a leap. But maybe, I mean, that's like it would make me think about it in a different way than I normally think about.

I like the idea of giving Most Improved, like as like a rude. Like a backhand compliment. Sort of like, oh good. You're actually serviceable now. You're so mean today. Just feeling fice. If Markell Fultz can get a shot up, could He got it? Maybe if you can make a basket. Congrats, Warkell. I'm most excited by the MVP race, per my Jimmy Butler comments.

You're blowing my mind today. You're really making me, you've completely turned the NBA paradigm upside down for me. Thanks, man. I'm just trying to think outside the box. I like it. Kari Irving encouraged me to question everything. So here I am. I'm excited with the MVP race.

I think LeBron will win because Hardin is injured. But I do think there's a case to be made for a lot of people. Like, I don't think this is like a clear no-brainer. Right, no, it's not. And I would handicap it probably the same way that you just did, that it's LeBron. It would have been hardened. Maybe it still can be hardened, depending on how soon he can come back. Jimmy Butler, I think, deserves me in the conversation.

You've put that splinter in my mind, and I can't get it out now. You're like my Morpheus. I also just want to say, I think Steph Curry deserves me in the conversation. Steph is amazing. I used to be such a Steph hater, and now I truly find joy in just watching him. I think his on-court demeanor has changed a little bit. more aggressive. He is just amazing. And I don't know, I just think that we are taking stuff for granted. I don't want to. I want you to be my thought coach. You've got the wheels turning up here and I love it.

And I also don't think, I think if the Celtics stay as good as they are. I think the Celtics are overrated, right? Like, I don't think they're quite the championship team that being the first in your conference would lead you to believe. But I do think Kyrie deserves a lot of credit. He'll get votes. He'll get votes. He'll get votes. He won't win it, though. Yeah. Agreed. But I think this is like a year there could be a sleeper pick. My only concern is I think that like group things settles in. And even if you don't, even if you don't think LeBron should be MVP, like it's just like the easy vote. And like of course, like LeBron should be MVP every year. Duh. I want you to champion the Jimmy Butler cause.

Thanks, man. Let's move on to something you wrote about today, which is Chris Paul making his return to the Clippers. Plays the Clippers at Staples Center tonight. Tonight, Monday. I'm so ready for this game. I am debating. Okay. I'm really excited for this game.

Were you on CP3, his return to the clippers, the way that they broke up, like, are you a CP3 person? I need, I need Juliet's CP3 thoughts. It's a lot to unpack, right? Because he's coming back and, like, it was a messy divorce, a little messy because he had the documentary and he threw shade at them. And then, like, Doc Rivers was like, when you leave, just leave. Don't burn the house down.

Sure. What do I think about Chris Paul? Yes. I was really a very early fan of Chris Paul Jr. who I like to call CP4. And so I was like really into Chris Paul based on that. I was like, oh, he's got a really cute kid. He was like very early to bringing his kid to the press conference game.

Like he was a real leader in that space. You need to trademark that CP4. CP4. I've been trying to get traction on it for a long time. And honestly, in like a few short months, the J team has taken off more than CP4. I'm here for all of it. I love your branding stuff. Thank you.

I think it seems really unfun to be teammates with Chris Paul. So I wouldn't be surprised there's a lot of ill will towards him. And then I would be pissed about that ESPN weird, like short docu series he did. It was a smart, savvy move for Chris Paul. For Chris Paul. And for Chris Paul. And he also probably like got some nice change off that as well. Making your own content is smart.

Like that's what you do in this day and age. You merchandise yourself. But I don't know if it's a good political move within the NBA world. I think what Doc said, like the underlying sentiment to what Doc said was correct. I was a little disappointed in Chris Paul because he said like he threw shots at their culture. Sure. Right. Which he helped form.

Sure. Right. Who was more instrumental in forming their culture than Chris Paul? It's hard for me to think about somebody. And he also took shots of them for like not wanting to. He said he was bored with them playing basketball. Yeah. And he said like I would want to go and do things off the court.

In New Orleans we did that. And here it was like, do we have to? And I was just like a little disappointed that he didn't take the high road. Yeah. But that said, the Clippers era with. Chris Paul was unquestionably a success before, for both of them. Yeah. Before Chris Paul went to the Clippers, the Clippers were nobody.

Before Chris Paul went to the Clippers, yes, he had that MVP season, but he was just sort of casting about in the NBA, right? And like, they elevated each other. And I want to bring in resident Clippers fan, really maybe the only Clippers fan in the world that we know of, Isaac Lee, to ask you the question that I posed in my piece. One, is Chris Paul the greatest clipper ever? and two, and most importantly, should they retire his number? Isaac, if you don't think he's the best clipper ever, who is?

Elton Brand. Oh, my God. Elton brand is the best clipper ever. As a basketball player? No, the question was, who is the best clipper ever? And in my standards, Elton brand is the best clipper ever. As a basketball player, yes, Chris Paul is the best player ever. I think, like, the Elton brand case when I was like, so the clippers don't have any jerseys

retired. None. Like, when they have their home games, they unfurl all these, like, giant clippers tapestries of current players. But it's a little weird, right? So I was like, oh, I wonder if Chris Paul would be the first player that the Clippers ever retire.

Elton Brand is a good case for the first clipper that they should retire. But do you think they should retire CP3's number one day? Maybe eventually, but it has to be after Brand or Griffin, I think.

Or even, I would say, after DJ, after DeAndre Jordan. Wow, you've got like 12 people you'd retire before Chris Paul. Yes, because Chris Paul was a rental. I don't know. This sounds like some clipper zealotry, coming from Isaac. Chris Paul should definitely have his jersey retired by the Clippers.

Should he be the first? Yes. Disagree. He should. Chris Paul coming to the Clippers is just like an infamous moment. And I think that I'll actually probably have we think about Chris Paul like in the future is like he'll be a part of so many what ifs and so many weird like twists of fate. Well, Bill always did that column about what if the trade hadn't been vetoed the first time he ended up at the Lakers like the ripple effects are insane. Sure. And what if the New Orleans like hadn't been displaced and like changed the New Orleans at that point? just like changed like the future of that franchise like it just there's so many like um weird moments that are sort of outside of chris paul's control in his career and i i the clippers era was

like the most ability he had played really well and you know they had so many injuries that derailed them but like the most fun i could think of was the clippers and grizzlies rivalry which i thought was like a good time you and isa the only people who have ever mentioned the grisleys as a clipper's rival but like come on it's kind of cute but also a little sad for both sides. Oh, 100%. The grizzlies are fine. Well, they're not fine this year.

But they're like, in general. They have previously been good and fine. And they've got Mike Connolly who like everyone else. One more quick Clippers note. There was a report from basketball insiders. And I'm saying this, take this with a grain of salt, that the Clippers floated to the Timberwolves

a potential Blake for Carl Anthony Towns trade proposal. Now, keep in mind, if you're the Timberwolves, you sort of laugh at this. And also, everybody in the NBA, is constantly like floating trade ideas, like so that this is just something that they may be broached despite the fact that it's super lopsided is not surprising. What is surprising, I think, is that after giving Blake that big, fat five-year deal, that they might think about trading him. Who's running the clippers right now is my question for you? It's Lawrence Frank, right?

Sure. And also Jerry West. Sure. So Lawrence Frank's been there a while. Jerry West is new. Doc was demoted and bomber is bomber. So that's like four strong personalities and Jerry Wes is the logo. Like I don't know. Like I just have questions about exactly who is making all these calls. Yes. I think that that's like a completely valid point. And it's something that like needs to be on earth. Like who's really the final decision maker with the Clippers? Because they're like they're altering the franchise right now. We saw that when when Chris left. We know that because Doc has been demoted. But they made this giant financial commitment to Blake. And if they're, this report is true that they're even entertaining the idea, that to me is like, what are you doing?

You just offered them that deal. I guess. But if you see that you've reached the heights of the Blake Griffin D'Andre Jordan era, and it's not this season, like maybe you just, you try to move a piece while he still got value. Yeah. I mean, I don't think like in a vacuum moving Blake is outlandish. Sure. But it's not in a vacuum. Sure. Well, you just said, let's bring him back for a lot of money. Like, I don't know. I think that's, I just think that's straight. It's definitely a surprise, but this, The NBA is just so different now. Think about how many major players changed teams in the summer. I hope for Isaac's sake that they retire his number before they trade him.

I hope they trade him. Just for excitement. Isaac can have that one last positive moment and then it can go back to Dark Hlipper's days again. Did you watch the trailer for Blake Griffin's movie that's coming out? It's like a Whitney Cummings directed and written romantic comedy. I didn't know that any of this is happening. It's like an ensemble cast film. You need to alert me to this before now.

It's called The Female Brain. and it's kind of like an ensemble rom-com featuring Sophia Vergara, James Marsden, Ben Platt from Deere Evan Hanson, Cecily Strong, Whitney Cummings, and Blake Griffin. When is it coming out?

I think next month. Okay, field trip. Yeah, absolutely. I would love to. We got to do that, and we'll report back to all the heat check listeners because, as you know,

I love off-court Blake. I wrote a whole piece about it. I love OffCorp, too. He's amazing. He's really funny. I want to see this. Let's go do it. Let's do it.

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And in the last week or so, there's been quite a bit of political commentary coming out of the NBA, which really has been all season. All season. And I admire the NBA for not trying to muzzle any of its personnel at all. And so in the wake of Trump's comments about immigration. Yes. Shed hole countries. Haiti and Africa.

Horrible. It's just horrible. Rudy Gobert. Yes. He was responding to Tommy. So Tommy Laren is a Fox News contributor. Yes. Who Charles Pierce calls a half-bright clotheshanger.

And she had said that if they aren't shithole countries, why don't their citizens stay there? Let's be honest, call it like it is, which is sort of like a really not well-thought-out idea. And Rudy Gobert, bless his heart, took umbrage with it. Yeah. And he said, do you know what it means to have dreams, to actually have to work for something?

Does the fact that I left France to come chase my dream here, make France a shithole? Or does that just apply to African countries? Getting paid to divide people where it looks like a shitty job. I'm glad that Rudy Gober spoke out. Masay Ujiri, the Raptors general manager, also spoke out, and he talked about how he went to refugee camps over the summer and talk to these people and that they're good people. And just because they're living in places that might be

not as well developed doesn't mean that those places are quote unquote shitholes. And he said that, you know, he'd like to see the president inspire people. And it cannot be the message that we accept from the leader of the free world. And this is his quote, just because someone lives at a hut, that doesn't mean that they aren't a good person, that that person can't do better, that that person is incapable of being great. And just because it's a hut, whatever that means doesn't mean it's not a home. God doesn't put someone someplace permanently. I am living testimony to that. If I grew up in a shithole, I'm proud of my shithole. Bless Messiah Jiri, bless Rudy Gobert. Bless the NBA, frankly, because these guys in concert with Pop and Kerr and LeBron James, Curry, you know,

like the Warriors deciding, no, we're not going to go to the White House to pretend like this man isn't a violation of everything that we hold dear and our ideals. Also, he called out staff, so. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, very specifically. I, especially on this day, like, I applaud the NBA. Sure. Because they're having a conversation that has been otherwise muted in the NFL

where, like, even just taking a silent knee is, like, somehow an affront to American patriotism, whereas in the NBA, they're openly having the conversation about it. Sure. It is, like, an interesting comparison. I think that at the beginning of the season, we expected sort of more active. Activism. Yeah, more activism, like before and after games, like, sort of worked into the theater of an NBA game anyway. Right.

And I think because the players and the coaches and the GMs speak pretty openly, it's almost like they don't need that in the same way. It doesn't serve the same functional purpose that it does in the NFL, partially because there's fewer players, so they're therefore more famous in their household names in a way that most NFL players are not. That's what I think at least. But it's been really interesting to watch it unfold. I mean, Steve Kerr and Pop and Stan Van Gundy pretty relentlessly have used their pulpit to talk about these issues, which I really admire. I agree or disagree. I commend them for having the conversation. Absolutely. It's interesting to even like compare it to something like what happened with LeVar Ball last week. They just sort of, they speak out. They kind of don't shy away from the topics and don't necessarily let the media determine the narratives and the storylines. Yeah, the juxtaposition. You may. make a really interesting point. The juxtaposition with the NFL versus the NBA and how this is handled, where in the NFL, it is more of a theatrical objection.

But the NBA is allowed to have the conversation. And I think there's a lot of reasons for that, not the least of which is guaranteed contracts in the NBA being much more of a players league as opposed to the NFL very much being an owner's league. And we've seen owners like Jerry Jones, you know, despite his like faux solidarity, really putting the kibosh on players who like don't stand. for the national anthem, you know, even though the president had to like mouth fumble through the words at the national championship game. Whereas in the NBA, it's embraced and even encouraged, like,

this is what I think. And we can have a dialogue about that. And that is very necessary right now. Yeah, absolutely. What did you think about last week when Rick Carlisle and Stan Van Gundy were kind of coming out against. Ironic. Lovar. Ironic because of what you just said. Like, you have guys in the NBA who never shy away from saying what they think. Right. You have Stan Van Gundy, rightly so, speaking up and speaking out against the president and the right and like this, you know, intolerant racist movement. Sure. Right.

And good for him. But conversation, there shouldn't be a check on where the conversation door, you know, is open and closed. And so the issue is that LeVar said that Luke Walton had lost the Lakers locker room and no wants to play for him. Right. And so then the other coach is. Which is in artfully put. Yes. Sure. And it was reported by ESPN. And then other coaches came to his defense for the Lakers did, notably, about anyone that covers LeVar, like, won't be covering us, basically.

Right. And Rick Carlisle saying that like taking umbrage with ESPN because ESPN is a TV partner of the NBA and therefore they should show more deference to coaches. Yeah. And to the like what are you talking about? Like you've gone to great lengths all year long to show how open you are about having various dialogues. Right. And then you put your foot back in your mouth on this point. Like it makes no sense to me. It was stupid. It was ironic. I agree with you. And then SVG was like he like circled his ESPN national TV game. Like I will not be doing my first. in third quarter interviews. Okay. Good news. Horrible interviews. Who likes those? They're not good anyway. But I agree with you. Everybody wins. You can't be like, well, this is the conversation we're committed to having and like this is the open dialogue and we believe in like free speech and then try to shut down a conversation. Even if you find it irritating. And you know, it's not that simple. You can't just pick and choose. If we're going to commend you for speaking out about Trump and politics in general, then like let's allow people to speak out when

they want to. I am nodding an affirmation of everything that Julia just said. Thanks, man. Nicely done. Let's move on. Real or not real, second half predictions. So do you think the Pelicans will trade DeMarcus cousins? I oscillate back and forth on this.

I'm going with no. I'm also leaning no. But because they're like, they're in the playoff picture right now, so I think it would be hard to justify it. Yes. What can you really get back for DeMarcus Cousins? That's worth it.

Depends on where he's going. Sure. If he goes to D.C., which to... I don't know. I'd have to look at their pick a lot. I'm in and see like what kind of pieces that they had. Are you taking an auto- Porter deal? Is that what you're telling me? If there's a good

picks involved? You're needing Auto Porter. You're needing Kelly Ubrae. I don't want Ubrae Over Porter. You'd have to have probably both in that deal and some picks. Yeah, I don't know. And then maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I think about it. But I'm leaning no. Real or not real? And think about this before you answer, Julia. I have my answer. I'm ready. The Sixers will make the playoffs.

No. Damn it, Juliet. Why? They can't win close games. That's ultimately the issue. They're a young team. They're figuring and out still. That's fine if you're like evaluating the team. But the question is, will they make the playoffs, the answer is no. If I said to you, right now, they're a game under 500 as we record this podcast. If I had said to you before the season started that the Sixers would finish as a 500 team with a 41 and 41 record, you would have thought, that's pretty damn good. Yeah, sure. So,

500. I'm just answering the question, man. I don't like it. This is not, this is not like a referendum on like this Sixers team, but if they will make the playoffs, my answer is no. We need some positives. The Celtics will win the Eastern Conference. Yes. Yes. I agree. That's real. One thing that I find impressed about the Celtics is that they, unlike the Sixers, find a way to win close games and to make comebacks. And that is... Not everything's a competition, Juliet. I know, but I'm just saying that's the mark of a team that can go deep is because

that they, those two things, being able to make a comeback and to like maintain a lead and have a get close and so win are hard to do. And they do it. That's what good teams do. I don't want to talk about the Celtics anymore. Real or not real? Donovan Mitchell will finish second in the rookie of the year voting. I put him second because I think like...

Tatum? Tatum or Simmons? I think Simmons is still the favorite. I think Tatum should win. You think Tatum should win now? You've got Tatum over Ben Simmons. Let's just redo this whole question. Who will win rookie of the year?

Real or not real? Ben Simmons won't win. I don't think he'll win. I don't think he'll win. I think Tatum should win. I really do. I'm not there yet. I think Tatum is the least to use a Bill Simmons framework as the

rookie at the highest trade value. I think he's number one untradable. I think Tatum is the most valuable to a contending team like the Celtics right now. I think if we're just talking about rookie of the year performance, I'm still on the Simmons train. I think he's been really good.

I love Simmons. But this was really initially, I wasn't expecting, like, I should have known, having talked to you, that you would be in Camp J team. But the essential of, this was more designed about,

Donovan Mitchell has been a virtuoso. I mean, like, the one-handed out of him that he threw down the other day was fantastic. He has been, I think all credit to the Utah Jazz, because for as amazing as this rookie class has been, that pick, Donovan Mitchell fell and the Jazz landed an amazing player. He's really, really good and he's really good and really fun to watch. He is really good and really fun to watch. Kudos to the Jazz.

LeBron will be MVP. I believe that to be true. So you don't want to go with Jimmy? I think that there's other people that we should be considering, and I don't want to believe. I haven't made my vote yet, but I think LeBron will win. Yeah, we're only at the midpoint. I would handicap him as the favorite. But I want to see how soon Hardin gets back.

Well, we'll be keeping my eye on that one. Yeah. Let's do it. It's time for the heat check, heat check. He's heating up. Rodney Hood, we see you. We see you slapping the phone out of a fan's hand after getting ejected. Awesome.

And getting a fine. Awesome. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. That guy, the look on his face, Rodney Hood's reaction, or he just slapped it out of his hand. I thought it was hilarious. Me too. Loved it.

Absolutely loved it. Very funny. The ball bros are in Lithuania. They've played two games, three games. Yes. So the first game... A lot of fanfare. Our Slack channel, our NBA Slack channel, was... Popping off. On fire. Everybody sort of watched it together and talked about it on Slack.

That was game one. Game two. Not as good for the Ball Brothers. Didn't score any points. How soon until Lithuania is sick of them? I don't think they're going to get sick of them. Hey, brothers. There it is. Welcome to my nation.

We're waiting for you To come and see our basement It's for you Listen, I hope they don't get sick of them Just because of that song. Me too. That's like number one. I think it's number one

On my Spotify playlist Like on iTunes. You're moving to Lithuania Just for the song. I love that song. I got to find it. I'm happy for you. It's 20th anniversary of NBA Jam, huh?

It is. And we bring that up because, you know, we have the heat check drop that's inspired by NBA Jam and inspired the name of the show. it's probably my favorite video game of all time. Have you played it? I have played it.

I just have so much disdain for video games that it's hard. Yeah, you like squinted at me. I just can't. Like an anger when you said that. Everyone's going to get mad at me if I share my full opinions. I respect people who love them and everything, but I just like, I have so many like traumatic flashbacks to college of like waiting for boys to be done

playing video games. I just like want to make you want to die. Like I just hated it. I feel like this is a therapy session now all of a sudden. I have since aged out of it. Sure. I don't play anymore. As I've said to you many times, like, once the NBA season starts, I don't have enough.

Dial in. I don't have enough RAM for anything but, like, hang out with my wife and the dogs and basketball. It's certainly a big cultural moment. I understand that. But that game was such a fantastic game. One thing that surprised me, there's never really been like a replication in real life of like a two-on-two kind of thing. That's what it was, right? Two-on-two?

Yeah. And you could, like, swap out the players at halftime. It was fun. Like, he's heating up and boom, Shaka, and he's on fire. Yeah, it's great. It's great. I'm sorry. I'm just the absolute wrong person to have this conversation, but I support everyone

who loves MBA Jam and think it contributed a lot to the culture. Thank you, NBA Jam. Other heat checks to mention. Sterling Brown, rookie of the Milwaukee Box, his car got popcorn by Janice and Co. The video of Janus being super excited kind of made my day. This is Dark Janus. He lurks in the shadows. the kind of mischievous side of Janus Antecoumpo.

Yes, he's mischievous. I like it. It made me smile. Can we ask a question about rookie hazing? Sure. Does Sterling Brown rate rookie hazing? I don't know. Has Sterling Brown?

I honestly don't know the answer to this. I think Janus just brings the star power and now we care. So he's like screw it. Pop-forning of a car is really mean. Really, really, really, really mean. And sucks for whoever has a car. He had one of those boxy Mercedes SUVs. Really blows.

And then you know how it's so annoying at like a piece of popcorn stuck in your teeth. Like, imagine that all over your car. Was it buttered? He's got leather seats. I have a lot of questions. Makes me very upset. I recall when this happened to Nixdousk in Sacramento, and I was very upset then.

Popcorning is really bad. Like, make them wear a backpack, make them get you water. Just popcorning of a car? No, I can't, I can't abide. That's where you take your leave. Yes, it's where I draw the line. I can't, I cannot abide. This week in basketball, we got some games to look forward to.

We got the Pistons of the Raptors. I call that a win for the Raptors. It's a fun mid-tier team. against the second tier team. I like it. Lakers at OKC. The usual storylines where you've got the Lakers and can OKC figure it out again? Fingers crossed. Nuggets and Clippers. This is fun because it's the, those two teams are right on the edge of the playoff.

I want the Nuggets and the Clippers out. I do that the Clippers should just blow it up, start over. You want the Nuggets in and the Clippers out? Yeah. Sorry, Isaac. That's just how I feel. Nugget. Anytime we bring up the Clippers, Isaac has to just breathe heavily into the microphone. But that's how it goes if you're a Clippers fan. On Thursday, we get a rematch of Sixers and Celtics. They just played in London.

The Celtics beat them. Maybe it'll be different this time. Maybe. Doubt it. Wolves at Rockets. This is a really good game. Really good game. I'm excited about it.

I'm also excited about it. And Nix of Jazz. We'll be a fun one on Friday. Don Mitchell rides again. Yeah. I'm happy for you, man. You got Don Mitchell. If you don't have a Sixers in the playoffs, at least you got a bright future with them and

with your man, Donovan Mitchell. I love them. Thanks for listening. Hope you guys have a great week. We'll be back next Monday. And thanks again to our. our sponsors.