The Ringer NBA Show - 'High Upside'—Long-Shot Prospects and Second-Round Steals (Ep. 122)

Episode Date: June 7, 2017

The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor and Jonathan Tjarks discuss Adam Silver's updated stance on one-and-done prospects (5:00), Kobi Simmons's surprisingly low stock (12:00), Amile Jefferson's NBA potential (15:30), Derrick White's basketball smarts (19:00), Cameron Oliver's maturity (23:00), and Jordan Bell's ability to box out in the NBA (26:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Before we start today's show, I want to tell you about our newest Ringer podcast, Binge Mode. Binge Mode is a place where we dedicate ourselves to rewatching and giving you expert analysis on our favorite television shows. For the next six weeks, the Ringer's Mallory Rubin and Jason Concepcion will be diving deep into HBO's Game of Thrones. The first 10 episodes of Binge Mode are out now covering all of season one of Game of Thrones. Every Monday, we'll be releasing a new batch of 10 episodes covering every Game of Thrones season to date. You can subscribe to Benjimo now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, you, welcome to High Upside. I'm your host, Kevin O'Connor.

And as always, I'm joined by the ringer.com's Jonathan Chalks. John, what's happening? Nothing much, man. You enjoying the finals? Yeah, I mean, I wish we had some closer games, but, you know, it's been fun to watch some greatness happen. I just want some close ones. Yeah, it would be nice. So today we're going to be discussing the sleepers in the 2017 draft, including some guys that aren't even.

included on the ringers 2017 NBA draft guide because this draft is deep. There are a lot of good players to be had in the second round and in the undrafted phase. But before we get to that, we're hitting on two quick pieces of news. First up, Sixers special assistant, Jerry Calangelo, had some very, very interesting things to say about Lonzo Ball and the world's biggest baller LaVar Ball. Here's a clip of the Holy Father Calangelo from last week's Colin and Reeshow on Sports Radio 94WIP. I would just make this comment. Ball is a terrific prospect and could have an outstanding NBA of future. I think it's going to be challenging with the people around him without being specific.

And yet, I don't think teams should bypass the player because they have those concerns. I think at the end of the day, what wins in this league is talent. This is a very talented young man. So that was interesting stuff from Colangelo Chucks. What's her takeaway on his statement? Well, I mean, nothing too newsworthy, really. Like, obviously, LeVar is a concern, but if you like Lonzo as a player, you're going to let it go.

I will say during the season, it didn't seem like LeVar was that big distraction to the team. And that's what the people around UCLA told me that it was not a big deal at all. What did you think about it? I mean, I think Levar, all the LeVar stuff is pretty much overblown in the sense that he's, probably not going to be an issue. I think it could be if like he starts like talking on radio

stations and you know says get the ball out of de angelo Russell's hands and give it to my son or or if he went to Philly and they're like get the ball out of ball hogging Ben Simmons's hands and give it to my son. He knows how to move the ball. He knows how to win. Then it's a problem. That causes friction in the locker room. But I just think that's that's just a fantasy and I don't see that happening. The thing is it's like if the Lakers do pass on Lonzo, let's say they take De Arne Fox or Josh Jackson or whoever it might be. What do you think about that for the Sixers? Should they just pull the trigger on Lonzo?

Oh, no question about it. Lonzo would be a great fit in Philadelphia. That would be a really fun team to watch. Ultimately, I think Lonzo's going too. Whether it's to the Lakers or if they trade down from that spot and Phoenix moves up, I think ultimately that's where Lonzo's going. And I don't see Lonzo as a guy who slips very far in this draft. The reason why, you know, Zobal is interesting.

He was, of course, a one and done prospect in this past season at UCLA, which brings us to our next topic. Adam Silver sounded off last week on The HARD on FS1 about the current one-and-done college to pro's path in the NBA, and he cited Ben Simmons as an example of how college was obviously an unnecessary inconvenience for him, and how changing the NBA's age limit from 19 back to 18 is something they will consider, and it's something he said that they could talk about over the next year. And then he spoke about it as annual finals presser, which I wrote about on the ringer.com this Tuesday, and here's two clips of what Silver had to say to my question about the Gatorade League

as a potential talent pipeline for high school players. The goal when we initially did that was not then to try to attract high school players. And in fact, those two-way contracts, you still need to be NBA eligible, which is still 19, in order to get one of those contracts. But that is something that we're going to continue to look at. I think then from a training standpoint, we really got to rethink this process. And as I've said before, I don't think we should just focus on 18 to 19. I think we got to look younger at the whole AAU system.

And again, I understand I shouldn't use a broad brush to criticize the entire AAU system because parts that are excellent, but also parts of it are very broken. So, Chalks, after my article went up this morning, you sent me a message in. You have some pretty big thoughts in regards to what Silver said. Well, I mean, I really enjoyed your article, especially, like, when you talk to all the NBA folks who were kind of skeptical about Silver's takes. And it seems to me like, yeah, there's parts to some that are broken, but is the NBA really willing to put in the money to fix them? And I'm pretty dubious they'll invest millions of dollars to change anything.

What do you think about that? I mean, like if you're investing into 12, 13, 14, 15 year old kids, first of all, the majority of them aren't going to reach the NBA. So I don't want to say that would be a, quote, waste of money. But at the same time, like it might not necessarily be a great investment. So that's one problem. And then secondly, like, just think about it for the kids. Like in Europe, I mean, he mentioned, like, how European players come in more seasons, but there's negatives to the European system as well.

And, like, you know, some executive brought up the point to me that a lot of, you know, top European prospects or international prospects come over to the United States. And so, look, if, you know, if the AAU system isn't perfect, which it isn't, I'm not sure the NBA getting their hands in that is necessarily going to fix. things. I think, honestly, the best thing to do is really just, you know, improve the G-League, improve the Gatorade League, you know, have more players, you know, enter the Gator League. But even then, like, that could be a problem, too. Because if you put more money into the G-Rade league and more college players are willing to either skip college, go straight to the G-League,

that could really dilute the talent pool at the college level. So look, like, I think the one and done is probably, you know, going to go away. Like, you're going to have those top high school prospects go straight at the NBA. But what happens if like those non-top 25 guys are also skipping school and going to the G League? What if the best player in Kentucky is Derek Willis? My question is why are we sure the one done rule is gone? It helps NBA teams like, like guys like Andrew Harrison. Can you imagine if he was a top 10 pick, how it would destroy a franchise? We're not sure. I mean like I just get the sense that the fact Silver was so open about it. And I mean that that was a little unusual to me that he was so.

open about it saying, you know, he, you know, looking at a lot of things, he mentioned Ben Simmons, the documentary he had on Showtime, just about how it was basically a waste. He called, he called Ben Simmons' year at LSU a half and done. That was just one example. I just get the sense from him that it's something that they want. Would it be good for the executives? I don't know. Like some executives I talked to, most of them said, no, they want these guys in school as long as possible. They want them to be three-year guys. It makes it easier to evaluate. Yes. But on the other hand, there's, there's, there's, some people that got back to me and said, well, you know, it could be better having higher

variance. Having high school kids come out could either, A, lead your team to getting steals later in the first round. If he's a guy that you perceive as someone who is a little bit undervalued, or, you know, like you mentioned, the Harrison twins, if they, if they entered school straight out of high school and, like, your team that perceives them as a future bust, well, that's someone else's mistake. And that leads to, you know, better talent for you, too. So if you're basically, if you're a team that has a high confidence that you have an edge, whether it's through your analytics projections or through your scouting or whatever the hell it is, if you view that you have an advantage, maybe you want that higher variance.

I personally, like, you know, I think the kids should be able to come out of high school. But I tend to side with the front office perspective is that having these kids come out of school later, age 20 would probably be best, having the kids come out of school later, more seasoned, more NBA. ready to contribute is a little bit better. But at the same time, like, there's a lot of sides to the argument, man. There's a lot that goes into that. Yeah, definitely.

So the reason why the Gatorade League is so important is because, you know, some of the guys we're about to be discussing are in all likelihood going to spend time in the G League next season. They're going to be the G-unit of the NBA roster. So every team's going to have two-way contracts that allow these players to make $75,000 are actually going to be able to make a living wage. And then they'll have the ability to make even more money if they get called up to the NBA. They're effectively going to be the 16th and 17th roster spots on a roster.

Not everybody's happy about these. Agents don't necessarily love it, but they're great for teams. They're going to have more roster flexibility. So really, I mean, this year's undrafted phase is going to be way more important than ever before. It's really a three or four-round draft with those two extra roster spots. So, Charks, who is your top sleeper prospect that could go undrafted? The guy I'm kind of interested in right now is Kobe Simmons at Arizona. He was an elite recruit coming out of high school.

He didn't have a very good year, obviously. He'd be talking about him being drafted. But he has all the physical tools to be an NBA guard. He has an elite first step. He has really good defensive numbers. And Arizona was not a great situation in front of good up good statistics. And I just wonder, I'm not really sure why he's seen so poorly compared to Terrence Ferguson, who left Arizona to go play in Australia.

And I kind of wonder if Simmons had reversed situations, he'd be seen as a late first round pick, and Ferguson pieces on drafted kind of guy. So with Kobe Simmons, 6'5, freshman from Arizona, average 8.7 points per game last season. I'm not super high on him, Charks. I mean, I'm really not a big fan. I don't think he has a great feel.

Doesn't have good basketball IQ. He makes poor decisions on the floor. But with that said, with all the positive traits that you listed, those are the type of guys you're looking for. with those two-way Roster contracts. You put them in the G-League, let them play out the whole year there, two years there,

and then maybe they exceed expectations, maybe suddenly they do start developing feel, or maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe their athleticism is so good that they just become a great shot maker off your bench. So I think that's probably the feel, probably the reason why you like him so much. Is that fair to say?

Yeah, I mean, at that point I think he's an interesting gamble. He's got the pedigree to be a much, better player than he was, and he was in a bad situation in college. So, why not roll the dice? The guy I'd like to roll the dice on is Deonté Burton from Iowa State. He's 23 years old, six foot four with a near seven foot wingspan. He's really thick. He looks like an offensive tackle or defensive end in the NFL. He'd be an awesome tight end, really. Yeah, really good time. This whole thing doesn't work out in basketball. He should give it a try for sure. Because in basketball, he doesn't really have a traditional position at all. That's the tough thing with scouting him.

So the thing with him is he does a lot of things well on the floor. He can bully. He's a bully with the ball driving to the room. He can shoot it a bit, whether it's off the catch or off the dribble. He's active, plays hard. I really like his game. But, you know, as we know, watching these finals, like, you need to be able to survive defensively. And he's going to need to trim weight in order to defend primitive players.

But he's also going to need to maintain his strength in order to defend bigger players, too. So with him, it's like it's a matter of conditioning moving players. forward how his body evolves and how his body changes. I hope wherever he lands. I hope it's a team that understands that Deonté Burton is a guy kind of without a position. Just put him wherever you want. And I think he can really plug into different roles. That's what I love about him so much if he's able to develop on the defensive end. Yeah, I mean, I kind of like the combination. So he averaged 1.8 assists, 1.7 steals, 1.4 blocks. He just makes things happen out there. He's a very interesting player for sure.

And Iowa State's had a couple of guys like that, too. They had Abdul Nader last year who had a good year for their Celtics D-League team, the main Red Clause. He was someone who I didn't really watch much at all last season, but then he popped up out of nowhere. And he transformed himself as a player. And honestly, it doesn't even really resemble the player he wasn't college that much. So what happened with Nader is irrelevant to what happens with Burton. But at the same time, the point is that Iowa State has had a handful of quality fringe pros coming out of their program the last couple of years. you look at the mayor hoyberg he was an NBA front office exec before he went to college he's got

he has the eye for talent I think absolutely he seems to know how to pick players at the very least absolutely who's another guy on your list charts um if we're just throwing out long shots I'm interested in amiel Jefferson at Duke uh he's really old undersized five but he's very smart player very skilled super old he'd be I mean he pretty much benched Harry Giles and Marcus Bolden because he's a lot old of him Perry Ellis those were five-star centers I mean I don't don't know. He can switch screens a bit, pass a ball, block shots. He's worth bringing him to camp as a small five, I think. Yeah, I'm with you and him. And another guy, another sleeper that I like, another old guy is Nigel Hayes from Wisconsin, a high upsides producer in

North Carolina Tar Hill super fan. Tate Frasier is going to be very disappointed in us not talking about Isaiah Hicks from North Carolina here. But the guy I'm intrigued with at the forward spot, Tate is Nigel Hayes. I just can't, I just can't get past the potential of Hayes. I know He kind of stunk his last two years at Wisconsin. But look, six foot seven with a long seven foot three wingspan, great frame, super muscular. He's got a pro's body, can switch defensively, slide his feet on the perimeter. He can protect the rim a little bit in smaller lineups. Shooting needs to improve.

That's really the greatest difficulty with him. I think maybe his free-trow shooting got worse over his years at Wisconsin, and his three-point shooting didn't get any better. But look, I just think, Hayes, if you want to, to take a shot on a guy with one of your two-way contracts. Plug Hayes in. If you have a good shooting coach, look, he could turn into a player. I really think he could turn up to a contributor because of how good his defense is. Well, I mean, he was seen as a first-round pick playing with Decker and Kaminsky, and he's one of those guys. As he became a feature player, he got worse.

But obviously in the NBA, he's not going to be a feature player. So in that sense. Also, he'd be going up with a game-winning spin move in the NCAA tournament. That was cool. Yeah, I think that's really one of the key things. is some of these guys they played feature roles in college and the NBA, all the negatives we see, all the bad stuff, that's not going to be part of their game. It's really, you know, if you point out Hayes can't do this or Jefferson can't do that or Burton can't do that, it's like, well, yeah, he's not going to need to do that in the NBA. So I think that that's one of the things people need to keep in mind when watching these guys who are either going to go undrafted or are round two sleepers.

Yeah, definitely. So in terms of those round two sleepers, you know, some of them could slip into the first round. Others are names you're probably not going to recognize much. And one of those guys is Derek White. He's a senior point guard who went to Colorado. Big six foot five. Isn't a great athlete, but he's super smooth, super skilled. His feel is outstanding. He's smart, knows how to play pick and roll. He's crafty. That dude is a baller. Charks, you have White ranked 23rd on your board, which I think might be higher than really anybody. I think anybody else out there. If somebody has White ranked higher, I'd like to know. So Charks, what's the appeal of Derek White from Colorado? Actually, I have him at 20 now.

I've been moving things around. 20. Is he going to move up even more? I think 20 is probably where I'm going to keep him. I mean, the start with, I think he might be the smartest player in this draft. Like, just his feel for the game is incredibly high. He's a guy, incredible offensive efficiency. So he was at, he was 68% at the rim.

70% of his shots were rim shots are three-pointers. He was a 50, 40, 80 shooter. 88 that pick-and-roll defense. and like picking roll, running pick and rolls. And he's a pretty good defensive player too. He averaged 1.4 blocks a game as a point guard. So like he doesn't look for him. I feel like when you watch him play.

But he's actually pretty, he knows how to play. Like to me, I'm not sure. I'd rather have him than like Luke Knard. I'm not sure why Connard is ranked higher when Derek writes a much more versatile player. I think with White, it would be kind of a joke if he doesn't go in the first round. I don't care that he's 23.

Unless something's wrong medically The guy should be a first rounder So like we're talking about him in the context of a round two sleeper And it's certainly possibly he goes in the second round But it would not surprise me at all If Derek White is a name that you hear Getting called like 25th or even 29th And you're like, who the hell is this guy?

Derek White But you're going to find out pretty soon That he's a really good quality player Who I think could actually I don't know how you feel about this Jarks But could he play right away Because I think you could Yeah definitely

He's an older guy The thing about him is there's nothing he doesn't do well. Like he may not, he's really good at everything. So there's no like glaring holes in his game. And the biggest thing for him, he played D2 for three years. And then he only played one year at Colorado on a bad team. So nobody talked about until like April. Because no one really watched them play because they were like the worst team in the Pack 12.

But as his film has gotten out there, he's gone up the boards pretty much consistently. And I think he'll be, he could play right now, I think for sure in the NBA. How about Joanne Evans from Oklahoma State? He's another guy, both of us really like. Love Joanne Evans. Love Joanne Evans. I got to give him a shout out to Dallas guy. He went to high school about four blocks from my mom's house.

So I got to see him a little bit. He's younger. First off, he's like 5-11. He's incredibly fast. And he's just very skilled. You know, like, if you see a 5-11 guy, you're like, oh, this guy's an NBA player for sure. He's just a special basketball player. Joanna Evans, Oklahoma State, hit the number one offense in the entire country.

And he was the only NBA prospect on it. I had the numbers. He got this year in the pick and roll. he got 525 possessions in the pick and roll and he pretty much one point every single possession. So basically the entire offense was Joanne Evans and Pick and Rolls, driving to the rim, driving and kicking. Like this is a guy who can run NBA offense right now today.

He has holes in this game. He's obviously undersized. He's a 6 foot 6 wingspan though. And he has to get better as a finisher at the rim and shooting floaters. But he's got a high basketball IQ. He's an elite athlete. And he just knows how to play at a really high level. to me, I'd take him over Yogi Farrell right now.

And that's the guy who's walking to Dallas and was already pretty good as a rookie. You mentioned how Evans really doesn't have any, like, you know, super notable weaknesses. And I mean, that's really the key thing with him is like, sure, he's small. Yeah, so what? You know, at the same time, like, you're not going to be,

I don't think you're looking at him right away immediately as your starting point guard who's going to have to defend, you know, big point cards start games. He's going to be your six-man. It's the guy who changes the speed of the game, a guy who's really your spark, plug who you know kind of eases things offensive because he's so good in the pick and roll i think look

and the thing is his defense is it's not like he doesn't try on that end i think i think evans is kind of really hustles on defense he plays hard and he might be overmatched against some bigger players but look if he turns into your starting point guard and he's playing 33 minutes a game whatever that's fine like then then that means at the end of the first round or the beginning of the second round you got yourself a steal man like if that becomes a concern but the thing with him is he's going to start his career coming off a bench for a team, changing the energy, and really, I think, A, scoring. I mean, that dude can get where he wants, but he's also a really good playmaker. I mean, he's arguably the MVP of college.

I'll get the numbers. So when he's on the floor last year, they had a 1.22 offensive rating. When he's off the floor, they're at 1.06. So 1.22 is, like, the best in the country. I mean, he was that entire team. So moving on from the guards, we get a big man. I know Charks, you're super high on this guy as well. Cameron Oliver, he's a forward from Nevada.

Kill a cam. Killer Cam. Super athletic guy. How do you view him in the NBA? Do you have any comparisons for him, someone who doesn't know who he is? Because he's not really a household name at all. We got Kenneth Farid and J.J. Hickson on the draft guy.

Oh, he's a way better shooter than those guys. Like, let's go back. I mean, he's a way better shooter than those guys. He can stroke. He shot five threes a game last year. Fine. How about Farid with a three-pointer? And he blocked two blocks a game.

I mean, I think he's got like top 20 potential in this draft. I absolutely love the guy. To me, like, Mill Savage, which is really high I know. I mean, I love Cameron Powell. Like, I'll say, if you haven't watched him play, go to Draft Express, go to their YouTube videos, and just watch his strengths video. You're going to watch a guy yamming on people, stroking threes, pitting shots off the backboard, dribbling on the jumpers, and his catching balls way with them, just dunking on people. And his negatives are all stumbling on people. that can be coached. His negatives are like, doesn't always try very hard, doesn't always have

great feel for the game. He had no point guard in that team. That's what I thought. That stuff can't always be coached though. Some of that is just, you know, who he is as a guy. And like the thing, the thing I heard, you know, talking to some scouts is that they just, with all over, the concern is really just maturity level and, you know, and how hard he's willing to work, how good is basketball IQ is. And, you know, he commits a lot of careless turnovers in school at Nevada, doesn't really execute simple plays. That's one of the bullet points we have on the draft guide here. And I just think, I think Oliver's going to be like a, he's a good guy to take in that second

round for all the reasons you're saying. But top 20 man with some of his flaws. Well, to me, like, if he played with Monti Morris, Iowa State, he'd be a top 20 guy for sure. He had no point guard on that team. That team was like four or five guys who just jacked shots. So they had no offensive flow. It was like, I'm taking shots and you're taking shots. And they had no.

So he got the ball. I was like, it's my hundred shit, I'm going to shoot it. But no one's setting him for easy shots in the half-core offense. I think to that point, like that touches on something we mentioned earlier. Like, with these guys, so with Oliver, one of his problems in college was that he settled for jumpers. You know, he took bad shots early in the shot clock, and it was really, really annoying sometimes to watch him do it. However, the question teams need to ask themselves, and they need to find out from, you know, talking to people around Oliver, talking to Cameron, Oliver himself, is, was that something that was just, part of the system. Like he needed to do that. It was part of his role because

there was a no point guard. There was no point guard. The system was shoot the ball and if you touch it. That was a system in Nevada. On the other hand, though, it's also possible. That's just who he is and that's who he's always going to be. And I think that's where the concern might be in terms of the personality aspect of the game. No doubt. I'm with you. Like all the positive traits. Like that guy is explosive, super athletic. That guy is going to be someone who you can pick and pop. He can shoot threes. He can attack those close outs off the pick and pop or you run a pick and roll with him and he can lob it down too

offensively there's so much appeal and then defensively as well if his fundamental blocks a game yeah if his fundamentals improve and he plays with more consistent effort i absolutely think he'd become a versatile defender and i think i i view him more like i'd feel comfortable at the beginning of the second round uh top 20 here's my prediction like he'll go to golden state people will be like what just happened they're gonna they're gonna let turn a game on next year like How is this guy the 30th pick? He's stroking threes and catching lobs at Golden State. This is unfair.

He's, I think, okay, so with Oliver, he could be perfect for, like, in the right situation because I felt the same way with Damien Jones last year that he also happened to land on Golden State. They took him with a 30th pick. Some of the concerns, you know, we mentioned with Oliver also kind of applied to Damian Jones. And they're different types of guys, personality-wise, but Jones is another versatile guy. So I could easily see if Golden State managed to somehow get their hands on Cameron

Oliver, I think he would be a nice fit for them in terms of plug him in right away and he might surprise a lot of people. I'm telling you, record this pot, write this pod down. Like next year, right now. Cameron Oliver. Cameron Oliver, that's the guy. Okay. All right. Let's go on to the next one while I lose all my credibility here. He's the man. Cameron Oliver, people, get on board. So here's the name people do know. Jordan Bell from Oregon. People know him because he got outrebounded twice in a row in the national championship. That was so tough, man. I mean, he had a great tournament. He did. He didn't remember now. Is that. He did. Jordan Bell, I mean, if you watched the tourney at all this March, that dude can block shots. And I mean, chances are he's going in the second round.

Like he seriously took like $2 million from my Wagner's pockets. I'm not even joking. Remember that? That Louisville game, Wagner just dominated. Everyone's like, oh, it's got the first-on pick for sure. And then Jordan Bell was like, give me that. He went like two for ten on Jordan Bell. Jordan Bell was outstanding, man. I think for anybody who didn't know him mentoring the tournament, they found out quickly that he was. He found out quickly that he, he was. had the eight blocks, I believe, versus Kansas. Obviously, Oregon lost in the National Championship. It had four blocks that game. Look, like, it's not just blocks, too. That guy constantly is altering shots at the rim. Oh, yeah. And I mean, we see it in the finals. We see it in this entire playoffs. I mean, everybody talks about it, but defensive versatility is so incredibly important, especially for a big man in today's NBA. And Jordan Bell, that's what he brings.

I think, you know, in that second round, if I'm looking for that, versatile defender. He was a packed-to-de-fensive player of the year, right? Is that right? He can slide his feet defensively. You can defend guards, defend wings, and, you know, about the only flaw for him defensively, ironically, is because he's a big man, is that he's a little thin. And, you know, he might have a harder time against some of those thicker framed defensive players, but a thicker framed big man. But other than that, dude, dude's pretty close to exactly what you want on the defensive end. Yeah, that's why he's probably a bench big. And, like, the thing about Bell, he's kind of like the opposite of a man, Kim Oliver. Like, he's just a super smart player.

He's always in right position. He's always reading the floor. he always like he can test shots without fouling and he's a great passer too like he was incredible in the tournament and I think he's a kind of guy like he's on a good team he'll play right away

he doesn't go to the D league or anything he's ready to go he needs to shoot he can't shoot does his only thing do you have him right now you had him 16 from the last guy an update I had him behind him so I have all those guys

I have Cam Evans White and Bell all in the like it from like 16 to 20 those are my guys Bell's nice I mean I'm not quite as high on him I just still like extremely worried about his rebounding. It's not just those last two possessions in the national championship. He's not a good rebounder.

He got like, didn't he break some record for like most consecutive games like 12 rebounds or something? Rebounding look like I think, you know, he looks historically. Rebounding is often, you know, one of the most translatable stats. At the same time, like the quality of a rebound matters. And there's a big difference between grabbing a contested rebound and traffic on the defensive end compared to grabbing a defensive rebound when nobody else is around. you. And with Jordan Bell, I, you know, watching a lot of film over the course of the season, I do think there's some concern about, you know, rebounding in traffic, boxing out. We saw that

manifest for him. Okay, he doesn't box out for sure. That was really bad. Like, that probably cost some money doing that. Maybe. Okay. I mean, I still think there's going to be a team that's going to really like him. Twelve plus rebounds and four straight tournament games. Here's the list. Larry Johnson, Shaquille O'Neal, Antonio McDice, Tim Duncan, my man, Mark Maddog Madsen, a meca, Okafore, Blake Griffin, Jordan Bell. That's the entire list. There's a Mecca Okifor? Yep.

He's trying to get back in the NBA. He's trying to get back in the NBA. Straight tournament games. A meca's retired, isn't he? I read something the other day. He's trying to get back in the NBA. A mecca O'Khafore. Ah, yeah.

I believe. I took a Mecca O'Gafor and Karan Butler. They're not bad. That's it for this week's High Upside. Thank you, John. Yeah, thanks for having me on. And thank you so much for listening to High Upside. If you like it, please give the Ringer

NBA show a rating wherever you listen to podcast. Check out the ringer's 2017 NBA draft guide at nbaidraft. com. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Kevin O'Connor and NBA. You can follow John at Jonathan Charks. And you can follow our producer Tate Frazier at Tate Frazier. Giving Tate the shout out.

Tate deserves because especially. You're welcome for our followers. We didn't listen. We didn't talk about Isaiah Hicks. So sorry, Tate. Thank you for listening. If Roy had like coached him at all and like improved the skill level, you know, it'd be nice. Maybe at the NBA he'll get a nice head coach.

Peace out.