The Ringer NBA Show - Houston Hasn’t Been a Problem for the Warriors. Plus, Do the Heat Need a Shift in Culture? | Real Ones

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

Logan and Raja open the pod by talking about the Warriors taking a commanding 3-1 lead in their opening-round series against the Rockets on Monday night. Has Draymond Green successfully gotten into the Rockets' heads and muddied up the series (2:40)? The Miami Heat were swept by the Cavaliers in Game 4, losing by 55(!) points to end their season. After the tumultuous year they have had, in which they traded Jimmy Butler, is it time for them to move on from Pat Riley? Has Luka been a liability for the Lakers in their series against the Timberwolves? Plus, has the JJ Redick criticism been fair after he played the same lineup for the entire second half (33:22)? The Pistons were robbed after no call was made when Tim Hardaway Jr. was fouled by Josh Hart in the closing minutes of Game 4. The NBA ruled it a foul after the game, but the outcome doesn’t change. What’s the point of the referee staff report (50:18)? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer/Audio: Clifford Augustin Video Producer: Victoria Valencia Social: Keith Fujimoto Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to The Ringer NBA show presented by Fandul. America's number one sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. Because not only does Fandall have all your favorite player props, but now you can even check out stats and recent performance trends right in the app before you make your picks. Just download the Fandall Sportsbook app today to get in on the action. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit RG-deshelp.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available

and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-dash-help.com. It's popping. Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. There's been a grand total of 35 minutes of troubleshooting to get this show on the road.

And I don't even know if we're going to be able to do it. Like, we'll see. We'll see how we can get through an hour of this. How you doing, Roger? Roger Bell's here. Yeah. He doesn't have his, he doesn't have his, he doesn't. have his Bluetooth headphones, like he's stuck in the Stone Age today. We were both late.

What the hell? I don't know, man. It's just, yeah, it's all good. I mean, I'm good. Sometimes, you know, you get off to a Rocky Star. Some of the best games, uh, come from those Rocky starts. I, I, you know, I said this to you prepot. I will just reiterate, the more people you have in your house, the more people you have in your house at a, at a younger age, the more things get fought over. And in this instance, in our house, we're in a, we're in a, we're in a frame of fighting over cubes, charging cubes. And it's become... How many cubes does you have already? How many cubes does you accumulate over the years in your house right now? Well, you know, they change. So now they don't have, now it's like over the course of time, who know, hundreds.

But like now it's the, they don't have the old USB one, right? Like, so it's like the, what do they call it, the C or whatever? So, right. So now it's become like a cloak and dagger game of like, you'll hear somebody like, you think you hear somebody in the kitchen and you turn around, you're like, yo, who's in there?

Nobody's in there, right? Nothing's missing to the naked eye. The fucking charges are all gone, right? So like I came in today. My charger was out of my computer in my office. Don't come in my office.

Don't come in here. Yeah. Do that shit all out in the kitchen and all you want. Go in each other's bedrooms. I don't give a shit. Don't come in my office and take my shit. You know what that means, right?

They're going to go in your office and take the shit. That's just, that's literally what's going to happen. Speaking of not taking any shit, the Golden State Warriors, we got Ben Cruz on the call, so I got to, you know, I got to gas up the Warriors right now. Warriors take a 3-1 lead over the Houston Rockets going back to Houston for game five. I don't know if you watched the full extent of this game last night. I'm sure you watched this morning. It was so long, Raja.

We need to, like, legislate some sort of time limit for reviews. There were so many reviews in the second quarter. It fucked up the flow. I feel like the second quarter of that game was like seven hours long. And there was technical fails a galore. It's got to become a physical series. We're going to talk about the physicality to playoffs in a minute. But let's just talk this, man.

Is this series over in your eyes? Or are we headed back to the Bay Area? Like where do you see this series going? Because I feel like on one hand, the Warriors have kind of figured the rockets out. but they're old. And so, you know, I was talking to, talking to Jremont after the game. And I asked him, I was like,

yo, are, how important is it to, you know, get this game five out of the way to, you know, get you guys some rest? And he was like, it's not the end of the world if we lose. He said, you want to win a close-out game? It was not the end of the world. And I'm like, I don't want to get this done. But how do we feel?

What do you feel going back to you with this series? Yeah, I mean, I feel like it goes back to the bay. personally. I do think, for all intents and purposes, the series is over, but I think it ends back in the Bay in game six. I think Houston will have a good shot.

And I'm not guaranteeing it, but I think they'll have a good shot at getting, you know, game five on their home court. You know, they were, they were right there. They're just, you know, they're the team that we thought they were in terms of, you know, their game, they scrap. They don't appear to be afraid,

but they're very inconsistent offensively. They're missing an alpha or number one. I mean, Shangoon's an alpha, but like you're missing a consistent number one that can help you close games in a way. And they are getting beat by experience in a lot of instances. So like they're who we thought they were. The series, yes, over, but not in the next game more than likely.

Every time I watch the Rockets, I love them for three and a half, maybe to three and three quarters of the game. But like you said, they just don't have a dude. They don't. I mean, even when Shangoon had the ball, which he got a great look, but like it was like it's probably not going in.

You just don't trust anyone down the stretch. There's a lot of role guys that are playing outsized roles in this series. One of the things that I do want to ask you about, and this is not just for this series in particular, but just as a whole, what do you think of the physicality of this series and beyond in the playoffs? Because there's been a lot of complaints about physicality in this series and also beyond.

You're talking about the Celtics and the magic where Jalen's talking about how if they don't get this corralled, we're going to have a real fight. And I'm just like, this seems like a throwback to the 2000s and I kind of like it. Right? There was a play last night, Roger, that I think you'll appreciate. There was a scuffle between, I think it was. Dylan Brooks, Eason, and Draymond Green. And there was just three texts.

Oh, no, it was, it was Dylan Brooks, Steph in Jarmine Green. And there was three technicals. It wasn't like, it was like, all right, go about your business. And then the two, like I think it was a few possessors later, Draymond gets ripped, gets into it with Eason, flagrant into technical.

We're not kicking anybody out. You guys are going to have to live in this, in this, live in this mud a little bit. But what have you thought about the physicality overall in these playoffs? Is it a pro pro or are people going over the line right now? No, I mean, here's what happens. I like it. I've already told you I like physical basketball.

I think, you know, historically speaking, we all expect a more physical brand of basketball in the playoffs than we get in the regular season. But I'm here for physicality, you know, period. So where the problem comes in is you've stripped so much out of so much of it, out of the game in the regular season, that guys aren't accustomed to that. Like, they're not used to playing in that and throws them off of their spot to some of the guys that are the beneficiary of not being able to touch them most of the times.

So, you know, that's all it is. It's what you've become accustomed to versus what you're getting. And so now you're getting a much more physical brand of ball. They're allowing people to do and take a few more liberties than they did in the regular season or traditionally doing the regular season. And some people have been out of shape about it. But, you know, I think personally, I like it. I think that Houston, you know, interestingly, has gone overboard with it.

It, it, you have, your game playing clearly was to come in, be physical, try to chop the legs out from an older, you know, Golden State team. Except now you're into the head games with the physicality. Now you're into Draymond space. He wins in that space. Once you cross the line and it's like anything, right? right? There's a there's a fine line you're walking. There's a there's a real balance between like being really physical being the aggressor, you know, taking a shot at Steph whenever you get

a chance within the confines of the rules and now and now crossing that line and I'm into some shit with Draymond every five seconds. And it's in your head now because you see it with Brooks a lot. Yeah, you've lost you've lost composure now. But that's why I said Draymond wins in that in that game. Like you you've let him take your superpower and and flip it on you. you. And so with all due respect, like Draymond lives in the mud. And I say that so respectfully, you're not going to like, you're not going to get in there with him. That's where, that's his domain. And he's experienced. And he's, even if you're good at it too, he's more experienced. He's won championships doing it. And so you want to stay out of that. You want to keep it clean. Teams,

teams that clean in terms of we're going to be clean, but physical. And we're not going to get caught up in every single exchange with you guys. We're going to go about our business. If we hit you and you don't like it, you can bark and you can act a fool, but I'm not participating in that with you. I talk about bandwidth a lot and, and, you know, mental capacity and it holds true when you are a younger team without experience. There's only so much bandwidth you have cumulatively in these games. There's only so much concentration level you guys have as a collective in these games. And if you're spending as much of it as you are on fucking around with Draymond, you don't have enough to beat them.

I'm just like, let's even from personal experience. Arguing with Jremont, just even about anything is an exhausting task, right? Because he's one of those guys that when he digs into a position, he is right in his mind no matter what. And he's not going to let up. And it's very annoying and taxing. So I can only, and that's just, that's just innocent locker room conversation. So I can only imagine how it is on court, right?

where he's totally in his element. And to your point, you have seen that a lot with this Rockets team. And I remember being in Houston right before the series. And it was very clearly like with the Rockets, they had this air of confidence, but it was youthful confidence. And I feel old saying this, but it was youthful confidence where you look at them and you, like, you guys don't know what the hell you're getting into yourself into. Like, I appreciate it.

I love it. I love the blind ignorance is bliss confidence, but you have no idea what you're about to face. And I feel like that the rockets are learning that lesson over and over again as the series goes on. And it's a good lesson to learn, right? Like, I think they're doing a great job considering the circumstance. They could have won last night. It could have been two, too, too, very easily. Very easily.

And this is exactly where they should be. Like, you're learning these lessons on the fly. This is your first time, you know, as a group in this situation. Like, who better to teach you how to navigate like these ropes than a Golden State team that's been through it over and over again? And so I'm not throwing, you know, any shade. I don't, I'm, this is purely like me looking at what they're doing and and having, you know, some, some answers, you know, sitting here from behind my desk. But this is where they should be as a team. Like, despite the fact that they're two and.

and Golden State 7, you know, you're early to the party, so to speak, if you're Houston. You know, this is house money. You want, sure, you want to win the series, but as much as, as much as anything, you want the experience to bank. So that the next time you're up to bat, we've done a little work on the roster, everyone's grown. We know what we're dealing with. You're in the ring right now with an old fighter that just knows how to like, you know,

pin your arm down and hit you with the rabbit punch. Like they know all of the little things that are going to get you tilted in a way that you can't just, you know, manhandle them the way you want to. And they just, they need to come out in game five. Don't say shit. Continue to be physical. Continue to take your, take your opportunities. But don't get into the back and forth.

Here's the other thing I'll say. You talked about that play where they got, all three got tags. And then like two minutes later, Draymond and E. or into it and they give out a tech and a flagrant. It's very well could have been an ejection. Yeah, I don't love that. I don't love when we start doing that, right? Like, because while I don't want to see anyone kicked out of the game,

if they don't deserve to be, you can make a case that when you're into one of those, they always give double texts and you deserve to be. I'm not going to lie. Most of the Press Roe was like, oh, fuck, Drayman's out of it and he just fucked up a whole game for them. And honestly, going into the second half, we thought that Draymond mucked up the game enough to where like he fucked it up for everybody.

He just fucked up the flow. Like I think that's another conversation to have right there about like as the playoffs we're on because I think me and you both agreed that the Warriors are going to move on in this series. So just assuming that that is the case. Like going forward, Draymond needs to get a handle on this on his emotions right now. And I know that's a constant thing that we keep saying throughout his career. But I think it's even more pertinent in this postseason because he's,

He is over the line in a way that is very, he's over the line in a way that is scary. Sorry, Ben Cruz, but not even just that. His level of importance to this specific team is at an all-time high. They need his passing. They need his defensive prowess because they just don't have bodies like that in the front court. And I feel like he is towing a line. Like that Easton play, he got ripped.

At a normal play, just run back down the floor and just go play some defense. No, he dragged him down. It was so egregious. That happens on every single play where he goes to the ground. Like there's, I don't, every play. Like, yeah, bro. So, but I agree with you. And he's always walking that line.

It's the line that we talk about all the time. Like, that's his, that's what gives him that edge and that superpower. That's part of what gives that team an edge. So he's got to walk the line. What, what Houston doesn't have is, the guy, right?

And the guy commands a different level of treatment from the refs as it relates to his back and forth with Dremont. So when you have a bigger guy, a bigger personality, a bigger star than Dremont, now those situations are way more precarious for him. Because Dremont is out here getting superstar treatment in the playoffs right now. Like in this specific series, he's getting superstar treatment. And that's okay. But like that's how this works. So like not only the treatment of the star on the other team, but again, we're talking about Draymond walking this line, the same way I talk about Houston walking this line.

And Houston allowing Draymond to take them over the line. Well, the better player, when Draymond can't get at him with the antics, when Draymond can't move him off of his spot with the bullshit, it typically would be way more likely that Draymond will cross the line at that point. Right? So he does have to, he knows it as well as anybody. All of us that play that role know it. We got to get as close to the line as we can

and pray we don't go over that mofa. All I'm going to say before we get to the next segment is there is going to be a potential that the Warriors play against Minnesota who has Rudy Gobert. Oh. I'm here for all of that. I'm here for every bit of what that.

Hey, hey, Roger going to pour some of that yak and watch some hoops. Oh, but you're going to pour some of that yak and watch some hoops. not even talking about, I mean, Rudy, aunt, and, um, um, and let's give respect to the Julius Randall. I mean, I know, I'm not saying that they're going to beat them. I'm just saying, like, if that should come to fruition, the amount of people that would be willing to get into the shit with Draymond is, I mean, the thing is though, and I don't want to give respect to the Rockets. They do have people that it will get in Draymond's shit, like, but they just don't have the backing of the referees in that sense, right?

Like, if they get into Dremont shit, like, it's, it's Eason, who is still trying to find his way into the league, right? Amman Thompson, who's trying to find his way into the league. Dylan Brooks, who is a crash out right now and is, like, is who he is at this point. So it's, he's not going to get the benefit of the doubt of calls. And it's going to be interesting, man. I don't know. It's just, even if the, even if the Lakers make it, right?

You're going to have Luca and LeBron, right? the Lakers somehow, which I don't think, I just don't know if they have the legs on that one. We'll talk about Luke in a second. But, yeah, man, I don't have a segue for this next one. It's just sad. No, but let me add to, let me just add one thing to this series,

if you would allow me to. Yeah, go ahead. Jalen Green, for as good as he can be at times, it's not enough. And I'm not, I'm not, it's not a blame thing. This is exactly where Houston, would find themselves. This is what we were saying about them earlier in the season coming into the

playoffs. Like they got to have a guy that you can pencil in for 22 a night. Like, yeah, at 23 a night. You know, and they need that. And it's clearing because Jalen just hasn't been able to find it consistently in the series, right? And they need someone, Sangoon is fantastic, but they need someone to go along with that. I watched Jalen Green and I'm like, damn, he's going to be a great six-man in about five years. Just incredible. I like that. I like that a lot.

I mean, I'm not trying to be disrespectful to his game in any way, shape, or form. But, you know, when he's rocking, let go. You know, when he's not rocking, we have. It's no. Yeah, we have. Pretty much. We're going to go back to your neck of the woods.

Talk about the Miami Heat a little bit. I might have to pour out some liquor on the the Miami heat. Yo, I know how it is on a national scale. I can only imagine how it is in South Florida. They are at Pat Riley's neck right now. Talking about, is this the end of heat culture? He's lost the plot. What are they going to do this summer? There's no free agents that are that are like really appealing since Lucas is is off the market now. And like, maybe Katie is not as like isn't as fruitful as made people think just because of his age, all of these things. the draft picks, all of these things.

And I'm going to steal, because I'm about to go on a tape Frazier show later today that we're taping. I think that's coming on Wednesday. And I was looking at the rundown. And they said, is this the end of heat culture as we know it, Rajabelle? So I'm going to steal that. I'm going to ask you that question right now. Are we there? No.

I mean, I don't believe that we have to be at the end of heat culture. I think foundationally, they laid that the right way. think it can last if it's not driven into the ground right now. That makes sense. So you have people in that building who've been brought up in it. You have people in that building who have lived it, who were developed in it. It can continue to be, but now is a critical juncture in whether or not that's possible or not. And by that I mean like they need they need a freshness of it. It can be heat culture, but there's got to be a fresh new delivery of it in some way. Yeah.

I don't, Pat Riley is on the Mount Rushmore of like, you know, NBA basketball, right? Like to some degree, if we're going to not, I mean, like he's just, for everything that he's meant to the game, you know, I want to give him flowers, but you're, you're 80 years old. Yeah. You still look fly sitting up in the in the box dog still still still That $5,000 suit on Yeah still looking good and everything but like this is you know we're at a spot now where they need they need a spark They need an infusion

And and it's just getting long in the tooth like no pun intended but they need they it can exist It can continue to exist Logan like that foundation was laid solid but now hand the baton to somebody Yeah, because there's just things that are happening that shouldn't necessarily be happening. And it's also, it's kind of poetic when that last night happened, right? Because you see the heat get their ass kicked at the hands of the calves. And then on the same night, you see Jimmy Butler get the rebound of the night and probably one of the rebounds of the playoffs. So impressive. And, like, you see how good he's been.

You know, the Warriors are 26 and 8. with Jimmy and then you've seen the free fall that Miami had post trade. And there's no shade on that. That happens with teams, right? But then you look at what could have been where clearly you and Jimmy are on the odds at the end of last season. Why drag this on and get this trade so late? You don't really get much for them.

I guess you get Andrew Wiggins and some picks, but like it's not the haul that you would think that you would get, right? Like maybe, and maybe in hindsight is always 2020, maybe you make that trade in the summertime, right? Just get that headache out of the way before training camp, not even have to deal with this. And like, Jimmy, Jimmy Butler is great now, but like, that was a really taxing time for Miami last, last, last, last summer. Yeah, and sorry to interrupt. I want you to continue because I just want to add to that. I was in Jim's last summer, and I'm pretty sure I said it on the pod where the writing was already on the wall for that.

You said it on the pod. I'm pretty sure you said it in the organization. We're like, that's not going to work. It's over. So you knew it back then. Yeah. And then so on that, he continues to say, we're going to make it work. After he said some really damning things, not necessarily like from in front office

standpoint, like we love it. We would love to see the honesty and transparency that a front office feels towards their players. But like you put Jimmy in an awkward position where he's like trying to get a deal and you're like, whether it's fair or not talking about him in his contract and alluding to that in public, that doesn't really go well for the NBA players, right, or athletes in general, or honestly, employees in general when you talk about their money, right?

And so it very clearly was doomed then. And then you put yourself in a position now, like, where there aren't the free agents. And one thing to mind me, he has been really able to do. And I think this is really a model on how to, like, sustain is like they never say they have a never say die attitude they are going to they're never going to rebuild they're going to retool under pat riley but now like i feel like this is there's really no choice right now like they kind of have to the team is who it is right now they have them out of bio they have who said there's going to be some major changes this summer um and then you have

tyler hero but what else do you have is that like that's a 48 win team if everything goes right right Like, what do you do? Do you go try to get your honest, but you don't have the assets to do that, right? I just don't know. Pat Riley for so long has been able to pull the rabbit out the hat, and I just don't know if the rabbit going to come out right now. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't have their contracts in front of me or what their draft capital looks like or anything like that.

So this is just me. You know, first let's address like Pat Riley's bedside manner in terms of, you know, dealing with star players and what he will or will not air, you know, in, in, in, in, what laundry he will or will not air in the press and, and the way he treats stars, right? Like, the whole heat culture, you know, mantra is built on, you know, accountability, discipline, things like that, right? Draw a comparison to, like, parenting. You know, when we came up, you know, our parents, you know, our parents,

were away, right? Like, you get your, you get your ass pop considerably. Like there were, there were ramifications for, for some of the transgressions, right? When they came up, it's probably even wilder than that. Like, the way we raised kids- When Pat came up, it was wild. Wild.

But like, I say that to say that as we parent now, like, I do it differently. Um, I still would like to think that I hold my kids a, and there's discipline in our house and we're raising good people, but we don't do it the same way because the world has changed. People have changed. We've learned. So that's where I find that the heat organization and Pat Riley, like no one's saying that we can't lose our integrity as it relates to dealing with stars and bending over backwards and capitulating to their every demand and X, Y, and Z.

there is a way that you do it with today's player that doesn't necessarily like fit all the time with the way Pat wants to do it. Right? And so let's just start there. And then, and now as you, as you get into like, you know, their roster and,

and the makeup of it, um, and always wanting to be competitive. You know, I don't, I don't begrudge you that all the time. I'm on here saying like I kind of love it. Like it's kind of, I, I kind of dig it, except it just puts you in a space where eventually it might not happen right now.

It might not happen next year. But eventually, you're screwed. Yeah. The noose just keeps tightening, dude. Like, you're not wriggling out of that. And so that's kind of where we find ourselves. So, like, there is a point where you have to say, all right, no, we cannot do that. Like, we've, we've taken this road as far as it goes.

And I'm not, this isn't a, I'm not talking about it. You sub in the Phoenix Suns, basically. So you sub in the Phoenix Suns, essentially. Like, we're too far down this road and we see the dead end. Yeah. Like, are we going to drive the car into it or off the cliff or are we going to like, hey, let's get off the road right now? Yeah, man.

And that's what's the tough part is about being as competitive as Pat Riley is, right? I ain't taking no else. I'm not taking any else. I'd rather go to the playoffs after LeBron leaves than tear it down the studs and he did it and it was very entertaining when he did do it

but like you win in a lot of battles to lose wars though Doug yeah but losing them battles to him is like well we got to the finals twice shit we weren't supposed to but we did it

yeah I mean look you know some some battles go down in history some don't right so like you you know You want some nice battles, but like, ultimately we're trying to win the war. And so, you know, like, there's got to be a level of like, there's got a level of understanding. And, you know, quite frankly, from above, someone's going to have to figure out exactly what they want. Yeah.

It's tough in Miami. But y'all got the weather. You'd be fine. You know, he'll be all right. It's okay. Like, because here's the thing, man. When you ask me as heat culture over with, no, because it never dies. The mindset never dies.

It's just, you know, you got to switch it up. You know, you got to switch up. In order to grow, you got to let go. I said it all the time. That's it. And again, he's raised or the organization's raised or however you want to say it. They've raised individuals within that building that will continue the legacy of heat culture. It's not even debatable.

They will. But at some point, you've raised them. like look man how old i'm 48 how old's alonzo now oh she's like in the 50s has to be right older than you right you don't think lonzo's ready i mean maybe it's not alonzo maybe it's maybe it's i don't know what i don't know what alonzo's job ultimately is in that building but there are people that have been by his side longer than alonzo like they're they're right 55 but you understand what i'm saying right it might not be alonzo because maybe his job isn't you know full scope of

of general managing, right? That's possible. So if it's not him, that's fine. But you can find other people within that organization that were raised that have been right at his right hand the whole time with these decision making processes throughout them and the trades. And they've been privy to all of this. They were raised in the culture that are probably ready to take the helm. Yeah. And if they decide not to, that's fine.

But what I'm saying is event, that's like maybe. Maybe is Andy Ellesberg. Like, he's been the number two. Underneath Pat Riley, he has all the institutional knowledge. He's made the trades. He's been great. He's been the general manager for the past 28 years. I mean, or has been in that organization for the last 28 years.

Maybe it's him. Maybe. I don't know. Does he got to find that answer? I don't know Andy. Do you know Andy? I don't know. He's the numbers guy, though, right?

He's that, does he do? Yeah. Like, he might not have the. Also, I'm going to make a comparison here. How it feels between Andy and Pat, it's like cash money. You know that, you know, like how Baby and Slim are. He feels like the slim of this organization. You know, Baby's the out front guy.

He's the, he got all the bread. He's the one that's making sure that you get the cash money messaging. Yeah. Slim is more in the cut, chilling, making sure the business is handled. That's what it seems like 3,000 miles away. Well, that, yeah, that's why I say. said Lonzo, like, like, you know, just a heat state, like personality, charisma, you know, those, there are things like that that go along.

And Andy, someone can always run, be the, be the numbers guy and be the backbone of it. But like, you got to have somebody out front that's got that. Maybe it's spoke. Jeunise de co. You on a sick, you know, a sick one. Is that a thing? It is a thing, isn't it? Yeah.

What does that mean? I was, I don't know what it means. but I heard it on a Sergio Mendez song and it sounded beautiful. I got a job. I'm a, I'm gonna sit you, hey,

Frank the tank. That was like Frank the tank. You ever seen, you ever seen old school? Hell yeah. Where he's up there against the Raging Cajun and he jumps into like this, the fucking,

the economic, like, debate and then he snaps out of it. That was my, that was my Frank the tank moment. I'm gonna send you some Sergio Mendez so you can get a glass of wine just like,

you know, just look at the, at the Florida sun and just chill, man, listen to some Brazilian. Bosanova. There we go. You know what I mean? Say a quick break. The Ringer NBA show

was brought to you by Fanduel. The NBA playoffs are finally here and if you think you know how it's all going to go down, then make those predictions pay off with Fandil and their same game Parlay profit boost. Just build your perfect parlay. Activate the boost. Lock in your bet and if it hits, there's a bigger payout for you

at no extra cost. Let's take a look at the slates. I am going to go with the Pacers to close out the series against the Bucks. I'm going to take Tyrese Hall Burton over on assist and rebounds, but under on points. Let's look at the pistons, Knicks. I think I'm going to take the over on Cade Cunningham points, assist, and rebounds. Magic Celtics, I'm going to take the over on fouls, and we're going to take the over on points for Jason Tatum.

And I think I'm going to take the Celtics to clinch that series, Clippers Nuggets. I'm going to take the nuggets on this one, and I'm going to take the over on Nicoli Yokitz, points, rebounds and assist. Does that sound good? Well, you can score an even bigger dub because FanDul's giving you a profit boost for all of tonight's action. Don't just be a spectator this postseason. Head to FanDuel.com slash ringer NBA to download America's number one sportsbook and make every moment more. Make every moment more with Fan Duel. Official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 years and older and present in select states or 18 and older in President D.C.

Opting required. Minimum three-leg parlay required. Bonus issued as non-witzrable profit-boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook. That fandul.com. Gambling problem?

Call 1-800 gambler or visit r.g dash help. Somebody else is getting slander in these streets. One Luca Dajic, who down the stretch of game four, played less defense than me, which is saying a lot, right? And I think part of that can be, we could talk about the semantics of J.J. Reddick playing his starters a whole 24 minutes of the second half, which is nuts. Didn't even get him a blow at the, like a two-minute blow between quarters.

But everybody's saying right now that I know Kendrick Perkins's front of the show, you know, he's going to go out on a limp, said that Nico Harrison is somewhere smiling right now because Luca is proving everything he said right. Where are we at Luca Donchitz right now? Are we, is it time to do our yearly crash out on Luca Donchitz right now? Is that what we're supposed to be? I mean, he's getting targeted down the stretch of games again defensively.

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that, but, you know, hey, let's let's indulge the time. line. What do we think of lucid, Luca Donchitz at this moment in time? And should the blame of this series go on him after game four if they lose, if the Lakers lose? No. No, the blame shouldn't go to Luca. And I'm not, I'm not taking the bait. I'm not crashing out on Luca. This is Luca. What are we witnessing from Luca that wasn't already known? he's fantastic offensively. He's,

he's as good in the league as there is at orchestrating. I mean, you're up there with a very few amount of people that can, I've said this before, just move all of the puppet strings. Like he's got his own puppet show going on out there. That's phenomenal and it's brilliant. There are other things that when you couple with that

would leave you wanting more sometimes. Defense is certainly one of them. But I mean, we've had phenomenal players in the league before. They weren't great defensive players. You know, shape is another one. Like what type of fitness level do you have? And that I think is the most important one because that affects your ability to do, you know, an adequate job on defense. But I'm not blaming Luca for that.

Like, you know, this is to some degree what Nico was talking about. It's exactly what he was talking about. Now, that doesn't mean that he was right for pulling the trigger on the trade, but like, this, this is what he was saying. And we all knew this. And we all, you know, we all said, yeah, we got that, but that trade's still dumb. Like, so I'm not blaming Luca for that. Like, they were right there. They had a chance to win the game. You know, I watched get up this morning. And, and I saw my buddies Jay Will and booze up there. And when posed a question about JJ Reddick, they hop, skipped and jumped the round. it like, you know, and those are my dogs, but like, yes, dude, like, JJ made the call and he probably, you know, any, any coaching call is a role of the dice. You don't know whether that's going to work or not work. And then you've got to be responsible for it at the end of it, whether you're getting the praise for the outcome because you won and it, it bore fruit. Or if it doesn't work and you lose, you got to take the criticism for it. And he's got to take the

medicine. He's got to take the criticism. That's unheard of not giving them rest at any point in time. It's unheard of. And so I could understand your logic. I mean, I haven't spoken to JJ. Like there's a world where if you explain to me like, you know, you couldn't give him a two minute blow though, Roger? Like come on. No, no, no. Listen,

I'm not I'm not excusing it because what I'm saying to you is I could understand where you were coming from like because my basketball mind is open where you could make an argument for that. And I would still at the end of that argument and say, I'm not co-signing on that. Yeah. No, I agree with you. I think also another thing, right, with JJ's decision making.

And I want to preface this by saying, like, JJ has been really, really good this season. So good to the point where you don't really, like, kind of hides the fact that he's still a first year coach in the postseason, right? So he's just going to try stuff and it's going to not work and he's going to figure it out. I trust that in him. He's shown us enough to do that. but when you when you play your guys that much and you play a guy like Luca that much

and I know he's getting huge criticism from his defensive whatever happened defensively including on programs on this site and rightfully so. But I think this time the defensive effort at least where he sits now conditionally and I'm not trying to post him too much

Bill because he did need to get his conditioning together. But I've feel like that's a symptom of being dog tired at the end of a playoff game, which is after your coach plays you 24 straight minutes, right? Like, you're going to be tired. You're taking a less than average defensive player. When he is in shape, mind you. You're taking one who isn't known for defense when in condition,

who is currently not in great condition, and then playing him until the. Rubber meets the road. No, he's not going to be a stand-up defender late in the game. That's just not going to happen. Yeah. And so, I mean, like, so that's what I think about the criticism. He was not put in a good position to, you know, even be, even be a below-average defender in this game.

So that's that. I do want to give some, you know, I just feel bad for it. I just feel bad for LeBron, bro. Like, this is tough. I think about the game three performance that was wasted and a lot of it had to do. And another thing, like, Lucas coming off food poisoning or whatever he had,

right, he had some sort of sickness. I think it was food poison. I think that's what it was, but I don't want to... Yeah, a stomach thing. Some stomach thing. It's stomach thing, right?

It's stomach thing. And so, like, and they were still in the game, the Lakers, it's one of those really rough series that when you play really well in a game, you're in every single game, and you lose in five.

That's the toughest series to lose because you very well could have been in a series every game but I feel bad for lebron because he's it seems like now as he's getting older every game that you get from him like game three it feels like a waste if you lose it more so than ever right and i feel bad because there was a world in this where i mean i had the lakers going to the finals what was i thinking um But there is a world where they could get out of the series, play the Lakers, or play the Warriors, probably get through that, I think, because I think they would be favored and rightfully so. And get to the conference finals again, and then anything happens. We'll see what happens. But now, like, I think about LeBron's tenure in Los Angeles, and it's been, for the most part, playing first round exit.

You know, it was a conference finals. That was good when they were the 70s. but they had to go to a plan to get to that. It's been tough for him. And I just, I feel bad for him in this series, especially after game four. Yeah, it's tough. And I'm fascinated.

I mean, did, what, did LeBron co-signed? You have to imagine LeBron co-signed at some point on, I wonder if that was a Saturday conversation. Hey, Bron, because LeBron had another worldly performance on Friday night. This was a short turnaround. You talked about Luca's stomach, but like I'm wondering if Saturday, JJ said, hey, Braun, I'm toying with the idea of not, or if that was just on the fly. Like, I'm fascinated by it because everything I know about LeBron, I mean, I know he does whatever

he has to do to win a game, but he's also very, very conscious of making sure he gets the rest that he needs and that he's taking care of himself so he can be productive in the biggest moments. And so, I mean, that's just a fascinating one to me. You're not wrong in that those are brutal series where you're just, you could look back at a five game series and say seven points cost us this entire series. Like those are tough to stomach. Those are physical.

And Golden State is a better fight style for the Lakers, even if it was the second round, right? They're a better fight style. Like Minnesota's big, physical, young. They're big and they're long. Like they have, and they have athleticism. Like they're young. They have, I mean, relatively speaking, right? Like your alpha is young.

And so that is a tougher, I think, match up for the Lakers. And, you know, the question I think, but when they made the trade, most of us acknowledged that, yeah, they could. They had a puncher's chance. But next year was going to be where they have to get it right. I think we said this. And I think I thought I caught up in a moment in the backstress of the season because I thought they were playing so well. But I think when the trade went down, I think we thought about this, we said this with the Warriors too. If they get to the second round, that's a win. I think that's a win for

the trade. I think that's a win for what they were doing. Because I mean, when we had Howard on, he was like, I don't know what this Lakers team is going to be. Like, are they going to be good? Are they going to make the playoffs? Are they going to figure it out? Like, I don't know. And we were like, and I just was like, Bron, Luca. Yeah. I got to trust him. But we'll see what happens. but I do think that they have relative to the expectations have done pretty well. It's just like LeBron is just getting a year older. I just don't know how many more years he has left in the tank. No, they have to get it.

They have to get it right next year. Like, have to. They have to get it right next year. I want to talk about the Minnesota Timberwolves, even if it's for five to ten minutes really quickly. The maturation of Anthony Edwards has just been astounding. Like one of the things that I was really concerned about going into this series was how he's going to manage a game.

You know, and I think that it takes, no matter how great you are to start your career, it takes a minute to be able to, you know, unless like you're Luca, it takes a while to find both your individual game and then the individual game of others and then also quarterback the whole thing. And I feel like Ann is turning a corner on that, man.

And like he's getting the scoring opportunities. And he's also getting other. guys involved. He's also passing out of double teams. He's also making the right shots. You could tell that he, like, the difference between aunt right now and say a jaw is you can tell that aunt has been working on his game in different scenarios in the off season. I wrote a story on him last summer and it really talked about how he matured as a worker, right? And it wasn't that he doesn't working hard, it was that like you kind of just have to figure out how to do it, right? Doing the two of days in the off season, making sure that it's not just like you're

fucking around and just shooting threes and like, oh, I'm done, but like being very intentional. And you see that how methodical that he has been in the postseason because he's been very intentional with his workouts and work habits. And I'm really happy to see him on the other side of that right now, Rob. Yeah, you hit you, you stole my thunder on that, but good for you because that's the word. It's being, it's intentional work, right? Detailed work, purposeful work. Um, and it's, it's, it's understanding why. Like that's, you know, the combination of those things is, is in large part, um, the biggest part of someone's development, right? Like going back and seeing where we struggled, where we fell short,

what was happening to us. Like, how were they able to do this to me? Okay. understand that. How do I need to work and what skills do I need to work on so that that doesn't happen again? And then, you know, really figuring out how you deploy them. And to the point about Luca being, Luca had pro experience coming in. Yeah. Luca had been working those things in a way that our college kids don't really work them for a while before he got into the NBA. So he was advanced. He had a head start on that. But it is cool to see Ant continuing to grow and develop and, you know, he's, he's looking fantastic. But that's what, you know, we live in a society now where, and maybe I was so young back then that I just wasn't paying attention to the type of criticism that the MJs of the world

were getting and some of those players before they were able to win championships. But I feel like back then it wasn't always a narrative on someone's career if they didn't succeed right away in the way that it is today. We just, it's an indictment if you can't get it done the first time on what your career will ultimately be. Your legacy is defined because you ain't win it in year two or three. And realistically, that's not realistic. Jordan didn't win it until year eight, I think, or he was 28 when he won it. Yeah, it takes some time, bro. It takes some getting over the hump. It takes falling on your face. It takes fail. And it takes the trial and the error.

It takes the embarrassment. All those things go into your being. And they fuel that intentional work you're talking about, right? And so, yeah, it is cool to watch, man. Give him his flowers. They need to close this shit out, though. That's going to be the big test. That's going to be.

And also another thing that I'm, like, really impressed with Ant. And I think that's going to, let's give him, not an edge in the conversation between him and Luca, because I think that's going to be the next great rivalry. that we have, especially if they stay in the same conference. But like a notch under your belt early in your career to not only beat LeBron early in the career to beat LeBron and Luca. Like that's something that Jock can't say. That's something that Luca can't say.

He's never beat LeBron. Yeah. I mean, not to say Luca hasn't beaten dudes, but he's beating KD. He's beating LeBron. If he wins this beats LeBron and Luca. That's a stripe on his belt, bro. And then if he goes and beats Steph next round,

like this can be this could be a little run going on here we might be premature talking about this but like this is this could be really impressive from aunt and even if he doesn't win a championship a real like early notch like oh okay this dude is serious well like really serious both things can be true it couldn't it can be premature right but it could also be true that if it should shake down like that yeah absolutely you're knocking off lucca lebron and jimmy and step and we're Again, yeah. A year after you just knocked out KD? Premature, for sure.

But like, yeah, now you're starting, now you're starting to like, now you're starting to solidify that, hey, face of the league type of conversation, right? Now you're starting to really put your stamp on stuff like that. Here's the other thing. It came, you know, perk, friend of the show. Like I did hear some of what he said. You know, like anybody, I agree with some stuff. I don't fully agree with other stuff.

But one of his points about what Aunt does and doesn't get credit for on the the, all the time, the defensive side of the floor is a real separator. Like, it's a real separator. Because we often just acknowledge how brilliant someone is offensively. And I get it. Like, you got to score points to win. Like, that's what everybody wants to see and stuff like that. But man, when one of those dudes who are that brilliant on the offensive side of the

floor couples it with being a gangster on the, on the defensive side of the floor, like Shea and aunt, like that's, that's really cool. That's why. And we're probably won't have enough time to talk about it But we'll talk about it on Friday But that's what makes Kauai So fucking potent

When he's great Like Yeah I'll just say this We haven't talked much Kauai In like about a week But man it's been great To see him back

And it's also like We're getting the series Between the Nuggets And the Clippers That we've always wanted Even though Both Nuggets wins Have been on some wild fluke shit

Like wild fluke shit still a fun series, man. Like, can we still have been, let's do it. I want to talk about, no, not that necessarily. No, I don't want to talk about, I didn't know if you were going to take me to this, but like, and I don't really have a rant, but I just find it interesting.

How many, how many late game, either fouls or you kind of teed me up last time we were on about the Detroit back court type of foul. And then their next game comes down to a no call on Timmy Hardaway. Let's talk to the no call. I haven't talked to you about it yet. So, like, I was, when I first saw it, I don't know. Did you want to talk about that or just like the overall?

No, just over. We could talk about that. But even then LeBron, like that out of bounds, the out of bounds. And when it was happening, I was sitting there with my man and our wives, we were out, we were out having sushi. We were kind of watching it on the phone because I'll come back and watch it the next morning. And I said to him, because he's like kind of a Lakers fan. And I was like, he said something.

I'll definitely off of. I said, yeah, man, but they can actually now go back and call a foul on that shit. I was like, watch them call a phone. fucking foul. Wild. They called the foul. Like, I don't like that shit, bro.

I'm gonna be real with you. I'm gonna be real with you. I don't like that shit. And like the, the challenges to call the foul, like that don't feel like hoop to me, Roger. And I know that's probably like cool.

I know that's like bro in the game. But also you got to think last night I fucking sat through like four reviews in a quarter. Like we need to figure out this review shit. We need to figure it out because we still getting the shit wrong too. Right? Like we're getting the call. Like the foul calls right.

But like, I don't like that. I don't like that. Was Jimmy Butler's, like, again, was Jimmy Butler's? Did Dylan Brooks foul him on the three? Was that? I don't know. There just been so many questionable ones. It didn't look like one real time, no.

It didn't like any, and that's with the. So when the Jimmy thing happened, we were all sure that shit was going to get overturned. Like, like that didn't look like a foul in real time on the call. there's so many other things. Me and Cliff talked it through for a little bit. Cliff, come on real quick. Let's talk about the call. And I do want to talk about Dame real quick

and pour out some liquor for him before we get out of here. But let's talk through with Cliff. So, on the final play of the Detroit game, the Detroit Knicks game, I think me and you were texting. Me and Cliff be texting all the time now,

Raza, like I'd be like sitting in fucking West Coast like G-Funk all the time at like two in the morning and shit. And then we just talked through all the games. But like in the moment, I think we were texting. through that last finish and I was like kind of cool with the ending

in Detroit like I was fine with it because I was just like all my life growing up like you the refs never put it in the refs hands and it felt like a bro from Detroit jumped into Josh Hardaway Jr. And I was cool. Tim Hardaway Jr. And I was like I'm fine with that.

It's cool. But the more NBA players that I've talked to be like Logan, you're full of shit. That was a fucking foul. They should have called it. Stop fucking playing. So I'm bringing that to the panel. And I'm full of shit, right?

Like, I should just... Unquestionable foul. Unquestionable foul. Yes. So what I thought was like, hey, man, you don't put it in the ref's hands, especially back then. You're right. You're right.

Like Jason Hart, I mean, not Jason Hart, but Josh Hart should have definitely not put it into refs hands by jumping his ass over there and fouling. He did. He flew like Superman, right, Raj? Then he flew like Superman in the air like that, left his feet. Tim Hardaway Jr. hit the up fake and clearly Josh Hart body hit Tim Hardaway Jr's shooting side and it should have been three shots and then the refs walked off J.B. Bick or Steph looked like he was about the

socks, one of the refs. Yeah. The whole Detroit came out of it. Yeah. That security hung out of it. Yo, you know how at the end of the game the reps get the security walk out, uh, back to their locker room to get dressing and leaving all that? That Detroit security got there so fast, man.

Them refs had to get right out of there. And then the stupid two minute report came out, which that, that's, that. That's what I hate, Cliff. Cliff, that's what I hate. I hate the two-minute report. I hate it. It validated what I thought. And it's like, bro, it's now pointless because it's like, what does Detroit do with that

information? Yeah, we lost the game now. What am I going to do with that? We're even more mad. Yeah. You can't make that up. You can't miss that call. Yeah, you can't miss that call.

And now Detroit, there's nothing they can do about it. They just lose the game. They should have three throws being down one. This is, first of all, that ref is standing four. feet away from that on that baseline. Like standing right there, those are the best refs on the planet. As much shit as I give them,

they have the best trained eye of anyone roughing basketball anywhere. They're fantastic with what they, there's no way you miss that call. And here is my ultimate beef. If we can go back on an out of bounds play and retroactively

call a foul, there's no recourse for you guys missing that at that point in the game, that, that to me doesn't make sense. And the reason why I wasn't reviews is because it wasn't called a file. He should have just called a file just to protect his ass. I don't know why he didn't do that. Yeah, that doesn't, but I'm not even like the system then doesn't make sense to me. If I can find myself in a situation where a loose ball will retroactively get me screwed or rewarded on, on a subjective, like barely touch foul and you guys are going to not be able to review

an end of the game foul like that. I don't have the answer, not that smart. But that system seems broken. And real quick, it's only reviewable if you have the review. And J.D. Biggstaff used the review in like the first quarter on some stupid, I don't know, like, question. If they're going to copy the NFL, then why don't we just have like mandatory reviews in the last minute? Look, the last thing you want to see is what happened that second quarter to that Warriors

Rockies game. I know, in the fourth quarter. I just don't, I don't have a true, like, I just know I don't like it. I don't know I don't like the current thing that we're in right now. So again, if we're going to be in the world where we can't, we can't, there's no recourse for what happened to Tim Hardaway Jr. Okay, I'll live in that world. But then let's not, let's not have the other ones either, though.

Like, let's not have what happened. And let's, let's hoop. That's who. You know what I mean? Let's move. And I thought, so that's my argument with like how I felt initially. I was just like, it's hoop, bro. Like, the last five seconds of a game, if it didn't, if they didn't call it, then like,

that's just what it is, bro, because that's typically how refs, they typically just put it in the player's hands. The whistle stays silent. But to me, the whistle stays silent for like boxing out and maybe a little bit of a hip check or something like that, but not you fly in the air, you affecting my shot. I don't, I also, yeah, and I also don't like, I mean, like, I didn't know we were going all the way here. But I don't, I don't like the review on fouls in general.

And no, I don't like that. LeBron call on Ann Edwards. I hated that that shit got called a foul. Oh, I guess we just found a foul. And the playoffs, you're going to find that in every fucking break. Almost every clip you break down. Like out of balance plays, I get it. Cut and dry.

Your ball, our ball. But like anything you slow down that involves two people in an NBA game, you know, not anything. But most things, it's slow motion are going, you could if you want to say, oh, yeah, that was a foul. He just, you know, that was contact. Like, you could rationalize giving a foul. And so once you start getting into the weeds, I don't.

know where you stop. So that's my point. Like, play ball. Like, let's not, let's, let's let's let's let's let's with the fouls and debating over like, you know, and like, like, let's clean it up. Loose balls, ball out of bounds and let's keep it moving. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Um, I was really sad. Still Detroit though. Shout out to Detroit. Three on three one three. You're going to make this comeback. Still Detroit. Another team, exactly where exactly where they probably should be in this, right? It's just funny that like somehow fucking Cliff is from Philly but went to like Cass Tech or some shit in Detroit. You're out here just repping. Repping.

It's wild. He has really claimed Detroit. He's been claiming Detroit. But real talk. Victoria out here fucking claiming all fucking teams in California. It's just ridiculous this fandom here. Like she's over here. She said, I'm a Steph fan and a LeBron fan and a Luca fan, Laker fan, and UCLA fan and USC fan all in the same sentence.

It's ridiculous. It's nuts. It is nuts. She's not going to talk on this podcast, but we got to take her to task in front of the real ones. Anyways, I was really sad last night, man.

The damage just really got me in my feelings, dog. Not going to lie. And a lot of it I'm going to say is just being from Oakland and being from the Bay. But that shit hurt really like a lot. And we're going to talk about the ramifications

and what's to come for Milwaukee in the coming. weeks but that just felt like one of those things are just shitty for the game you know like in all ways it just it hurts raw it just hurts

I don't have anything else to say other than that but it just that shit hurt to watch that yeah I mean I'm with I'm with you I don't have a lot to add to that like for for someone who's who's been as good as Dame has for as long as he's been at this point in the career too

to like with an injury like that I, yeah, that was, that was hard to watch. Yeah. I'll pour out a little liquor for Dame, man. You know, play some fucking Dame Dahl in Rex Life, Raj. I don't have anything more to say. Just I wanted to acknowledge that it fucking sucks, that he's heard and just a sad season from the Milwaukee Bucks all the way around.

But on a happier note, the Raiders got a really good pick. I think they really had a really great draft. So, you know. I was interesting. Yeah, that was, that was, you got any thoughts? Wait, quickly. Well, you quickly. No?

No, no. It was an interesting weekend. You have no, you have no Shador thoughts. You have absolutely no Shador thoughts. I am happy for every single person that got to live a lifelong dream of getting drafted into the NFL. And for all of those who signed as free agents like I had to. Hey, kudos to y'all, man, make the most of those opportunities. Uh-huh.

Sorry, Ruins. Me, Victoria. Ben and Cliff are going to get the real tea after the pod. Ha ha. We'll get Rod's real feelings on this. No tea. There's no tea. It was like, I mean, hey, bro.

All right. Shout out. Shout out Cam Ward, though. Shout out Cam Ward. No doubt. Hurricanes. You know what I mean? All right.

That's been another edition of real ones. We've got to an hour. We got Roger said, by the way, he's only going to do 20 minutes of his podcast because he was so fucking fed up. He doesn't have his Bluetooth headphones, ladies and gentlemen. He's fed up. I finally got him on the wave. he can't connect his shits.

I mean, I have them. I just couldn't get him to connect. I don't even, like, I actually got in a good mood pod with you today, bro. You're about to send me back off the pod. Love you, buddy. I got love for you. Everybody, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right. That's been another edition of Real ones, Tuesday vibes.

Me and Rara, man, I've been listening to a lot of Philly shit, you know, low, low, in the place to be. And I got what it takes to rock the bike right gear. Oh. Better watch what you say to be trick, because I got what it takes to Rock the mic, crack. Yeah. All right.

That was Roger Bell. I'm Lolo. Cliff on the board. It's Victoria on the video. We will see you guys with Howard motherfucking Beck on Friday. The curmudgeon himself is back at the building. Let's fucking go.

Talk to you all soon. All the shits. May. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RGhelp.com. Call 1-888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat in Connecticut or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

Hope is here. Visit gambling help line, ma.org or call 1-800-3-275-0-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 18778-8-Hope-N-N-Y or text Hope N-N-Y in New York.