The Ringer NBA Show - How Ben Simmons Fits With the Nets and What Went Wrong With Harden | Weekends With Wos

Episode Date: February 13, 2022

Wos is joined Kristian Winfield from the New York Daily News to discuss the Brooklyn Nets. First, they break down how the Ben Simmons trade helps the Nets on the court (1:56). Then they get into when they first knew something was up with James Harden (7:41) and what went wrong with Harden in Brooklyn (12:34). Host: Wosny Lambre Guest: Kristian Winfield Production: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, long-time writer with the Atlantic Magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the latest edition of weekends with Waz. Of course, I'm Big Waz, a.k.a. Wosney Lambray. And I have a very, very special, exciting guest on today. New York Daily News, Next Beat reporter.

My brother, Christian was popping, boy. Hey, yo, this is our first time really Lincoln, bro. Did I see you, my guy? Of course, of course. Hey, you got to pull up on this side. Pull up to New York real quick so we can turn up the right. I'm going to be in New York in two weeks. Do not worry about it.

We're going to lock in. By the way, just so everybody knows, my man Christian is so dedicated to what our decision was to record today. This man is recording live from Seoul House, okay? You know the vibes. You're not going to get this in on any other pod, okay? My guest is report in live from Soul House. Listen, you know what I'm saying?

Like I told you, it's Valentine's Day weekend. I have a nice lady out here with me. I need a little spot to get away from the noise. It's snowing outside. I'm pretty sure it's not snowing where you at right now. It's literally 85 degrees. I'm jealous of hell right now, but I wish I was out there. Let's keep right into it.

So I think there's been a little bit of news happening in this world. It's a little bit. Fairly recently. But I do want to get into the Ben Simmons deal. Sure. First, on a basketball level. Why does this help them? on the court.

Oh, that's easy. That's the easiest thing you could have asked. Number one, the net struggle in every area that Ben Simmons is good at, right? We know that Ben Simmons can't shoot. And Steve Nash, he addressed that the other day. But Ben Simmons is an excellent rebounder for his position. He's an excellent defender. And one thing that's not talked about enough, he pushes the pace.

James Harden, as amazing as he is, he moves 15 miles an hour, right? And that's just facts. he moves 15 miles and out because he likes to slow the offense down why he can make his decisions. Ben Simmons is so athletic. He's going to put pressure on that rim with the ball in his hands and that make decisions on the fly. Right. So that's one area. Number two, the Nets have never really profiled as a good defensive team.

He's a perennial first team, all defense player. And then on top of that, what you're missing in James Ardenham, aside from the scoring is the playmaking. Ben Simmons is the guy who's average. He's ranked, I didn't even know this until I looked it up two days ago. he's ranked top 20 in assist every year that he's actually played. So when you look at that and you look at how it aligns with this nest Ross in the moment, you've got Kevin Durant, you've got Kyrie Urban on the road at least, right? We try to figure out if Kyrievin is going to be able to play at home.

You got Carrierey on the road. You got Kevin Durant at home. You get Seth Curry and Andre Drummond. You got Patty Mills. You got whenever he gets back is Joe Harris. You've got so many different options. All you need Ben Simmons to do out there is cut, play defense, make plays for his teammates, and dunk. And when you add that up with the other pieces that the Nets have, it makes sense.

So, yeah, I know a lot of people are looking like, yeah, the Nets went to make the superstar Big Three and it didn't work. And yes, that is part of the thing. It didn't work with the Superstar Big Three. Now you welcome Ben Simmons into the fold. He can do all the things that the Nets have lacked this season and makes them more complete basketball team. And that's why it works. Yeah, and I think, look, nobody's been harder on Ben Simmons than me.

Nobody's been more down on Ben Simmons than me. I'm probably the biggest Benzman's doubter that there is. However, he has never played with somebody like Kyrie. He has never played with somebody like KD. He's never played with a guy who is a threat to kill you on the pull-up three in the pick and roll. And so when teams try to blitz the pick and roll against Kyrie or blitz to pick and roll against KD and Ben Simmons gets the ball at the top of the key on a four-on-three situation, that's death for defenses.

You know, like he's going to be put in amazing positions to succeed. I think basketball-wise, there is no better place Ben Simmons could have landed than on the Nets because as you said, he's going to be asked to do all the things that he succeeds at and none of the things that he doesn't, which was not the case in Philadelphia. Yeah, and when you look at how the Nets roster is built, there's lineups where they could put nothing but shooters around. around Ben Simmons. Shooters and defenders.

And if you have that on the floor, what more do you need from a, set a screen here? What I think, then that's my end up actually using Ben Simmons as a big. As like a, like, as you see how they used Bruce Brown last year.

Right. They basically took Bruce Brown and supersized them into Ben Simmons. Imagine that you've got a player who can set screens and then roll, catch the ball and then make a play out of there. If there's a big man defending the rim, that means that big man really helped from another shooter. Ben Simmons is going to make that pass 10 times out of 10.

we see for the numbers. So not only you do have another playmaker, a supplementary playmaker, but you also have someone who can make plays on the defense event. And that's someone, that's somewhere where the Nets have really struggled, right? The Nets haven't had that shut down basketball player

on the defense event who could turn defense to offense, right? When you listen to Steve Nash, what he said, he's saying, hey, we're lacking that transition because we don't have that stopper. Now you've got someone in Ben Simmons who's going to get steals. You see the Stills numbers also top four. That's crazy. He's top 20 in each of the four years that he's been in league in steals as well.

Like people like to overlook that like, yeah, yes, he sat out this entire season. Yes. And listen, I'm not, I'm not giving him any breaks. Yes, what happened in Philadelphia happened. Was whack. That was corny, Christian. It was. I'm not giving him no breaks.

You don't move like that. I'm going to ask him about that too when it's time when he has his press conference. By the end of the day, outside of that, he's a complete basketball player around everywhere else. And they have enough other players in the roster. People forget, these nets have Lamarcus Aldridge, too. And no matter where you stand on mid-race. jump shots or back to the basket shots.

Lamarcus Aldridge is valid in everybody's book. So you got Lamarcus Aldridge, you got Patty Mills, you got Kevin Durant, you have Kyrie Irvin, you got Joe Harris whenever he gets healthy, and then you add him Benson to the mix. It just makes sense on so many different levels. Is Joe Harris going to get healthy? That's a question we don't know, right?

I was probably the number one person saying, hey, if the Nets don't know if Joe Harris is going to be healthy, they should trade him, right? You don't have time to waste. This season is going to go down the drain if you don't know. I was saying, hey, look, if Joe Harris is going to be healthy, then that should probably trade him

and get a 3-n-D player back. I was the number one person saying, hey, the Ness needs to get KCP, get Confidius-Wil Pope in that, Spencer, you know, they didn't do it, right? And I thought they might have been able to do it now. But if Joe Harris is healthy, that's another 3-point threat.

Remember, he led the- -led the whole league in 3-point percentage last year. Yes, he did. It's crazy. So you add him back into the mix. We don't know if Joe Harris is going to help. I would say yes now, because secondly right now,

when you add Seth Curry to the mix, you don't necessarily need him that gives him more time to get healthy. I think Joe Harris is going to be back probably sometime right before the playoffs. And that's perfect. If you're not, you could bring Joe Harris off the bench. And now, look, you've got a starter coming off your bench. It's crazy.

Christian, we could do this hoop shit all day, but you know I brought you up here for the spice. Oh, yeah. Talk to me. I bought you up here for the spice. And I want to know, I want to know, again, Christian Winfield is the Nets beat writer for the Daily News. Okay, the New York Daily News. Not a Vos. This guy is this locked in on that team as,

anybody in the industry, period. That's just facts. When did you know that something was up with James Harden? In Sacramento. No, right before the Sacramento game, he missed a game. He missed a Warriors game with a right hand strain. And at that point, I knew something was up, right? Because before that, he missed a home game against the Nuggets

with a left hamstring. And hamstrings could be tricky, right? Because if you, like, we watched James Hardin in the playoffs play on a bad handstring. And I knew, at that point, I knew he wasn't a, he wasn't, healthy. He didn't look like he had a real hamstring strain against the nuggets. And at that point, I'm like, I, something's a little fishy. And then he proceeds to miss five of the next seven games with this quote unquote left hamstring tightness. And at that point, I'm like, I, hold on. When was this? Because I want to get the timeline for the listeners. This was no more than two

weeks from now, right? I think that was like January 29th, maybe 27th. Either the 27th, the 29th was when they played them. I believe they played the Warriors on the 29th, which means they would have played the nuggets on like the 26th, the January. Right. So this is in that time. At that point, once I started to see the D&P starting to pile up and I know this is a guy who, James Horne's an Ironman, you know what I'm saying? He's been on a record telling media, he's told media I want to play through basically

every injury because I love Hoopin. So to go from there to now sitting out because of left hamstring tightness, nah. I'm not buying that. And Nets fans ain't buying that either. So, you know what I'm saying? Like around then I realized something fishy was going on. And then you started to see reports coming from Philadelphia, talking about James Harron. You know what I'm saying?

Darry wants him this off season. He might not resign. I'm like, dang, you know what I'm saying? I guess he's really out of him. Lo and behold, he's gone. So once those DMPs started piling up was really when I realized this man was really gone. I feel like this whole shit caught the Nets by surprise. Am I wrong to feel that way?

Were the Nets? When I mean the Nets, I mean the most important guys in the building. Sean Marks, Steve Nash, as far as management is concerned. did the net see this coming or was this basically sprang upon them? That's difficult to, you know, when speaking to show marks the other day, well, yesterday, really, he said that, you know, they could kind of sense that his commitment level wasn't there, even dating back to the offseason, right? Like, you got to understand.

When you got a team like Katie and Kyrie, like, things are going to come up. But the main thing is still going to be the main thing, no matter what, this team was going for a championship at the end of the day. And if you look at it this way, James Hardin could have stayed and still got that chip. Now he's leaving and going to Philly where he's got to rework something new. We don't know. I mean, on paper, James Hardin and Joelle and Bede, I mean, there's Kobe and Shaq and these two, right? Like this is the level down from the back, but it's still, I mean, if you ask me,

Joel and Bede is the second coming. It's on that level. Two MVP caliber players, one's a big, one's a wing. It's on close to that level. Obviously, we're not going to disrespect to Kobe. Not at all. We know what they did. We know what they put out there.

did for the people, but yeah. And when you look at the way Embedd has been playing, I've been blessed to know that I'm going to get an MVP vote at the end of this year. And if I had to vote right now, Joelle M.B., yeah, congratulations, my brother. Joel Mbitt right now would get my vote. He's playing at an incredible level. For the Sixers to be this close to the number one seed,

you know what I'm saying, despite the pieces they've been missing, you know you don't got Ben Simpson mix and you still might win it all. Dope. Embed is the most dominant big man I've seen since Shakil was in his prime. To add James Harden to that mix is a different level. But when you look at what he could have, I don't know. And you answered this question for me what was like,

if you could play with KD or Embed, who would you pick? That's a ridiculous. Exactly. Of course. Exactly. So to leave Kadee and go play with Embeded, then it's like something has to have been brewing.

You know what I'm saying? And maybe that's Kyrie not getting vaccinated. We know James Hunter felt away about that. James Hart that came out and said, I'll give him the vaccine myself. Once you say that, I'm like, oh, yeah, you're not cruel. And then you start to see the workload pickup.

You start to see him having to play these 40-minute games And the net's still losing But to leave in the middle of that, bro, I'm not even going to hold you to leave in the middle of this season When this team is in the trenches, when you know the only reason this team is suffering Is that they're injured and they're going to get healthy? That's a little suspect, no, I'm not going to hold you.

It's a good thing the Adidas propaganda that came out two days ago Told us that he's a big leader And he stands by his guys. That's neither here, there, but I do want to get into I do want to get into the karee of it all. I do want to get into that because so

I had Sarah Todd. She is a beat reporter for the Utah jazz. Yes, obviously excellent. Hey, let me give Sarah some flowers real quick. I was out I want to say for All-Star weekend and I got to Chicago a day early and I have no place to

stay because I was going to get a hotel and Sarah was like, no, you could just cry. I got an extra bed in my, in my hotel room, you could crash on the bed. She's like me crash in the hotel, bro. Like, that's love, you know what I'm saying? Like, now, it's a tarotage. She's people. She's people.

So she was like, look, the Rudy and Donovan thing has been brewing. But it's like one of those things that literally everybody knows about. Yeah. It's not a secret. It's not even underneath the surface. It's literally right there for everybody to see. I feel like this James and Kyrie thing was not. Not as obvious the whole time until, of course, you know, inevitably, once people leave town,

we get the notebook dumps from my guys at the athletic. We're going to get the notebook dumps from Christian Winfield. We're going to get the, yeah, we're going to get the real once guys leave town. I want to know for you, when did you realize James is like, yo, I'm not really on this. You know, it's funny because for the first half of the season, Kyrie wasn't even a thought, right? So the constant was James and Kevin playing together. Once Kevin went down with that MCL spraying, bro, you could kind of see James being a little uncomfortable

having to carry the entire load by himself, right? And this happened. I think Kevin went down after the Nets had already ruled that Kairi could come back. Because the Nets rule of Kari could come back on like December 17th in that bucket. And James and Kevin can't go down until like middle of January. So once Kevin went down and then you start to, to see the rest of this team. And this is how the Nets put together.

You can't really call it any other way. The rest of the team, after you go back behind their stars, it's built around the big dogs. It's built around the big guys. Exactly. It's Patty Mills, is Lomarchus, and you can't win a game with that, unfortunately, because every other team is going to have a player better than those two. You start to see that.

And then on top of that, you start to see the Nets don't have enough shooters before now until they, Seth Curry fixes a lot of that. Before again, Seth Curry and Joe Harris goes down, you start to see that James Hardin can't really succeed unless you got spacing on the floor. And then on top of that, you start to see James Hardin not getting the foul calls he used to get. And that's a big part of this equation as well.

That's something that he's going to have to deal with no matter where he goes. He can't run away from not getting the foul calls, right? And that's an issue. You start seeing him not getting to the foul line. You see his efficiency going down. You see his everything is dropping, right? You can check the numbers.

I'm not making this up. And then on top of that, you factor Kyrie coming in and out of the rotation. And now you start to see a frustrated James Hardin. Right. And once you start to see that, it was kind of crazy because you started to see all that. And then less than 24 hours later, you start to see reports from Philadelphia. James Hardin upset.

James Hardin upset with Steve Nash's rotations. James Hardin upset with the tax rate in New York City. I'm like taxes. You don't have to pay that no matter who you go, taxes? You know what I'm saying? Like his crayons a bunch of stuff you start to see. And I didn't believe. leave it at first, right? I'm the person who asked James, I'm the person who asked James,

the first questions about his reports. I was talking about him going to Philly. I'm like, yo, do you see this report? He's like, yo, reports, I don't pay attention to reports. Like, they're just reports. They're not just reporters. There was reports of how he got to Philly. So, it's crazy, man. The whole, the way this whole thing played out was kind of crazy. But end of the day, the Nets have a, if you ask me, and if you ask the players, they have a better team now. They think the next thing they got better from the street. And I happen to think the same as well. I do want to talk about the KD of it all as well because KD is the guy.

He's the linchpin. He's the reason that Hardin wanted to even force his way to Brooklyn. He's the guy that brought Kyrie Irvin over there. He is the guy at the center of everything the next to try to do. He's the guy that signed his damn extension. First. Last summer was like, I'm here. And that's when, not even to cut you up, when James Hardin did.

signed his extension, bro, that's when everybody was like, what's going on there? When someone doesn't sign that extension, it's for two reasons. Number one, they want to get paid more. And right, you could make the case. James Hart didn't sign the extension because he wants to go from making $200 million over the next five years to $270. I don't know about you.

I'll take an extra $70 million on top right now. Yes, I think I would too. At the same time, if you got Kevin Durant, signing that extension now, setting the tone for everybody else, and I'm James Hart and I really want to be part of this, I might sign that thing because KD could have made more money by way until next summer, too. So what is it really? So that was kind of now kind of thing about the question you ask.

That was kind of the number one red flag. Okay, he didn't sign his extension. But we've seen players not sign that extension and then sign it later just to get the bag. James saw is a different breed. So, yeah. So what I want to know is like, because you hear stuff, of course, you talk to be. I talk to people that might know some people. Yeah.

Of course, I talk to guys like you who are on the ground. New York City. There's a sense that KD and Karee have never been closer. How could that be the case? Is that what you're hearing? Is that the sense that you get? You got to think of it this way.

And this is kind of what I started to process over the weekend as well. You know, the plan never included James Hardin. James Arden was in addition to the plan, but the plan always included. Kevin and Kyrie came here together, right? Believe it or not, COVID or not, like COVID, no matter what it is,

is it's still it's still kari irvin's personal decision no matter what it's a decision and he's going on record saying this him as a basketball player only spends a fraction of his time on the floor so why would he do something so permanent as to get a vaccine and i to be honest you know what i'm saying i would agree with him to me on like if i didn't have to get vaccinated to be in my career field right now the NBA gave me no choice but to get vaccinated or to work from home and never go to a game again like I had no choice. If I had the choice, I might have then waited a little bit longer and seeing what these policies would change into. And that's what the nets are doing right now. There's no telling. In two weeks from now, the vaccine mandate in New York City could change and Kyrie will be available to play all games no matter what. Right. So there's that aspect of it. But then there's also the aspect of it that James Arnd, like I said, was in addition to the current plan. Right. Like they were always going to had they not traded their depth for James Hardin, they would probably have swapped out that depth for even more, you know what I'm saying? impact role players. Like a, like a Ben Simmons solves a lot of the issues.

Like an Andre Drummond, this team can't rebound. Now you've got Andre Drummond. He can do that and block shots. Like a Seth Curry, somebody who could hit some shots. So, you know what I'm saying? It kind of stings from the standpoint that this is an organization that went all in on star power and tried to sell Brooklyn on having stars, right? Like, when you think about it, what three, what team has three players that can guard Kevin Durant, Carrey Irvin, and James Hardin?

Maybe the Clippers, do you think about it? That you got Hawaii and George, but no, exactly. Exactly. So that was what they were going for. But to back pedal and now put this team forward where you have Ben Simmons, depending on what. I think we're going to get the best possible Ben Simmons because he's going to be in a healthy space where he doesn't have to score. He's going to have to basically facilitate and defend and run. That's great.

And now you add all these other parts. I think the nets are in a great space right now, man. So it's a fun time, man. It's a fun time to cover this team. I'm not going to hold you. Yeah, because look, while I feel everything that you just said, Kari get the job, fan. Like, get on yourself.

Yeah. Get on yourself. And here's what I'll add on to that. No matter how hesitant I was to get the vaccine, after I got vaccinated, I caught COVID. I told people that I caught COVID in Chicago. When the Nets beat the Bulls by 26, I caught COVID right after that game, right?

And at that point, I was like, yo, had I not been vaccinated, this could have been a lot worse for me. You know what I'm saying? Like, I was coughing. I'm sitting there in the post game press conference. Steve Nash is looking to me crazy. I'm sweating down.

I'm feeling it. I'm coughing. I got the. I'm scratching my neck, my neck, looking like I got an addiction. It was crazy. And then, like, I left after that. But then as soon as I get back to my hotel, I'm thinking like, yo, if I didn't get vaccinated, I could have been a dub right then and there.

And everybody around me could have been a dub too. So it's like, yo, Kyri, you got to get fax. But I mean, no, at the end that he doesn't. And that's what being a star of his level and having that money and these options of he doesn't have to get vaccinated if he doesn't want to. And that's where the net's right with it. So I want to get you out of here on this because it's important. I think people don't realize the extent to which the NBA is a people business.

Sure. And it's about relationships. It's about how effective can people communicate, right? Like, for instance, when it comes to a coach, you can have all the X's and O's you want to have. Yeah. If you can't effectively communicate to your guys to deliver it, it doesn't. matter, right? The stuff that matters is the people and the connections.

So all of that being said, when you're talking about Kyrie Irvin, you're talking about KD. They're two of the most, shall we say, mercurial stars in our league. And then you add Ben Simmons personality into that mix. And I think Steve Nash is a brilliant, emotionally intelligent guy. I think, I don't think a lot of people could step. into that situation and handle it as effectively as Steve Nash has on a people level. Yeah.

Are KD and Kyrie going to be able to deal with Ben Simmons? That's tough. You know, the other side of this question, right? I think Doc Rivers is great for James Harden. I think Doc Rivers is going to be the coach that gets under him, that lights a fire under him. And this pains me to say it because he kind of dragged it in Brooklyn. I think we're going to see James Hardin take it to another level in Philly because of the coach. in Brooklyn, and this is what you get when you decide to sign a rookie head coach to coach a championship team, no matter what his pedigree is, you're getting someone who's still learning on the job and Steve Nash is still learning on the job. And we see that. We see that with his substitution patterns. We see that with his adjustments or lack thereof in high pressure games. We see that in many different shapes in a game. But at the end of the day, you know, and this is the crazy part. I think back to what Kyrie said in the offseason. You know what I'm saying. We don't really. Steve could be the coach. I could be the coach. I could be the.

the coach. Kevin can be the coach. Right. He said, these are his words. And that's kind of what it comes down to. I think the basketball aspect of it all is going to take over. How can you have a guy like Ben Simmons impact the game? And here's another thing. I don't think Ben Simmons has much of a margin for error, right? He just left Philly where he, number one, he didn't play. Number two, we all saw the playoffs. We saw what he did. I sure did. How much you like Ben Simmons, you cannot ignore what he did in the playoffs, right? So there's that. But on top of that, there's the talent. like you can talk about the jump shooting. You talk about the free,

I think the free throws are going to be the biggest issue of Ben Simmons because if teams are hacking the Simmons, you can't play him in the last five minutes of a game, which is tough. But if you're playing him in the first, what was 48, in the first 43 minutes of a game, and he's being that force on defense, and he's getting out in transition. I think this team is going to benefit a lot from playing with pace.

Because James, as much as talented as James are in this, he moves 15 miles an hour. Ben Simmons is going to move that ball and he's going to sprint. And you can use. him off the ball, right? Even if he's not shooting, he's going to set screens and cut, and then he's going to make plays off of that. I don't think the basketball fit of it is going to be a problem. I think making sure Ben Simmons is in the right mental health space, because we got to see what that looks like is going to be a thing. And then just figuring out how the rest of this

roster fits, you know, the Nets have $11.6 million of a trade exception to sign free agents with. They might go try to get Gore on Drogic. They might try to get DJ Augustine. We don't know. They need more, some more three and D wings. And then the basketball aspect of it is going to fit perfectly. So I really can't wait. After the All-Star break, we're going to see all those pieces start coming together. And shit, man, listen, I know the Nets might not be the championship favorite in everybody's mind. And to me, if they match up with a team like Miami or Milwaukee, it might be tough. Whenever you got KD and Kairie on the floor, anything can happen.

We saw KD last season almost in the Bucks home basically by himself on that shot. I watched KD this season beat Joelle and B'd Sixers with just eight other players on his team. Nets had like 10 people in COVID and he beat them with a short-handed roster. I don't think that this trade hurts them. I think it's going to fall on Steve Nash. Like we were talking with the mental aspect of it, with the rotations, and with all the other stuff to put it all together. So we're going to put it on Steve Nash.

Hey, listen, man, Christian Winfield, New York Daily News. What a vibe. Next beat reporter. I'm a big fan of yours, bro. I love what you doing. You've been doing your thing for him. Let me give you some flowers right quick, bro. Appreciate you.

as far as you came. My man's got his own show. Stop playing with him, bro. Tell him what today's price is not today's price. Listen, listen, listen. We're going to talk about that off camera. But listen, no. Christian, man, you are one of the most plugged in dudes

out in New York City. You're a guy from the town, which means a lot to me. Appreciate it. Which I love that for you. And you're killing it. Thank you for coming on my show today, brother. Thank you for having me, man.

I can find you. Literally anytime. Listen, you know, I'm on Twitter slinging that thing. It's at Chris Splash on Instagram, you know what I'm saying? And it's not just basketball. If you need some crypto news as well, you feel me. You already know the vibes. NFT gay.

So I'll have me and I'm here, bro. You're right no vibes. I love it, bro. I'm going to get up with you when I get to New York in two weeks. Absolutely. This was weekends with Wise. We'll see you guys next Sunday. Peace.