The Ringer NBA Show - How Did Giannis Rise to the Top of the NBA? | The Answer

Episode Date: July 23, 2021

Seerat and Rob are joined by Mirin Fader to discuss her new book, 'Giannis: The Improbable Rise of an NBA MVP.' They talk about Giannis's personality (4:39), the impact of being a European player (13:46), and his upbringing and early career struggles (18:21). Then they get into the way Giannis mentors his younger brothers (40:40) and favorite Giannis quotes from this postseason (51:13).  Hosts: Seerat Sohi and Rob Mahoney Guest: Mirin Fader Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On R2C2, Cecee Sabathia and Ryan Rucco guide listeners through everything going on in the MLB, NBA, and NFL. They also talk to friends, athletes, and celebrities about the world of sports and much more. Check out R2C2 with CCCC2 with CCC and Ryan Ruko on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Answer, where we usually like to dig into a question lurking around the NBA, but this week, for probably the first time in a long time, we exist in a strange liminal space of actually having an answer. I'm not sure how much longer this will last, but while we're here, we're going to talk about the bucks, and we're going to talk about Janice, who dropped a 50 piece in game seven. That's 50-50, the same amount of chicken nuggets that he later ordered.

We have, we have, we don't have Chris, we don't have Chris today for you guys. He is on vacation, but I'm very excited, but because we have two of my favorite chroniclers of really anything, but especially the NBA and especially, especially the Bucks. So without further ado, we have Rob Mahoney, who will be co-hosting the podcast with me today. He is in the enviable position of being able to say, I told you so. We will see if he has the grace, if he has the grace, the lack of ego, as Janus would put it, to not look at the past and just focus on the present moment here. let's find out and I'm also very excited to say we have Mirren Fader here who just so happened to write a book about Janice

she posted an excerpt of that at the ringer.com you can read that there you can also go to longform.com and click it from there if you would like to do that because that's just that's just you know how Miran does her thing we're so glad to have you have you both thanks for having us here this is so exciting I feel like all of us in one space it's usually us just like nerd out about basketball and writing separately. So I'm very happy we're doing this. Mirren, how are you feeling? I feel good. I feel crazy. I am shocked. I'm like very happy. I have like secondhand glow for bucks people. I feel happy for them. It's been such a long time coming and just to see the joy that they have and finally feeling seen and respected by people. It's just, it's awesome. I do want to put you on the spot on one thing.

as the bucks are winning the title, as the celebration is unfolding, I'm sure you're keeping a close eye on what's going on on TV and on social media and stuff. What is one little piece of that celebration that stood out to you? I mean, I just, the sheer amount of people, you know, that are just out and have been out, I think that for so many years, the perception from people not from Milwaukee is like just being so, um, rude and dissing them. Just be thankful you have a team, you know? Who cares about Milwaukee? They just act like these fans aren't proud and loud and existed. And so it's just been so awesome seeing them out in full force and having their celebration and their joy for all of us to see. It's really sweet. Mirren, I want your favorite fan moment. From all the stuff we've seen, there was a video that came out and this little girl was in like a signing line for Janus and she drew him something.

And Janus comes around and gives her the most tender hug ever. And she looks, you know, so tiny in his arms. It reminds me of the Monsters Inc. Little two hog. And I just, I'm just melting as I see this. And I just loved it. I think Milwaukeeans have fallen in love with Janus for so many. years, but it is very interesting and cool to see people falling in love with Janus for the first

time. This is the first time they're watching him. This is the first time they're seeing that he has a charismatic personality in addition to the dominance on the court. And that's fascinating to me. Not only did that girl draw him something. She had like a whole portfolio she gave him. Like there was a whole dossier of like, I mean, one can only assume drawings and journal entries or whatever it was was in that folder. But it was, it was adorable. Look, she came ready. She knows that Janus is about work ethic. She came ready to roll.

She's not coming in with a weak portrait. Okay. She got him where he lived. That's for sure. Janice has this ultimate gratitude, it feels like, for like, pretty much every single thing that he encounters in the NBA. Like, even all of his failures and stuff or like the stuff that set him back, he looks at and he's like, well, I want to find a way to make this fun.

Like, oh, I'm going to be humiliated at the free throw line or not. necessarily humiliated. That's, I think, what a lot of other people would call it, right? Like, just the counting and the attention that he got. He was like, well, this is interesting, and the fans are having fun, and I guess I just have to live with it. Mirren, where does that come from? Like, he just rolls with the punches. Yeah, I think growing up, Janus was not afraid to laugh at himself. He's always been a funny person. He was the tag-along kid brother to thanassus. You know, if the nasus was known as the good basketball player, Janus was the scrub. So, you know, from an early age, nobody crowned him king. Nobody was like you deserve. Nobody was like

you're the best. You can't get arrogant when you just haven't been dubbed a superstar as a lot of kids in America are at age 13, you know. So Janus gets to develop his skill set and also just be comfortable in his own skin as he rises through Greece and in America. And he doesn't have the pressure of having to perform immediately because he joins a team that has won 15 games. So, you know, I think that what's going to rattle you when people are counting at the free throw line when you've gone through so many obstacles already before that? This was such a weird time and such a weird season. But I think part of the reason why people gravitated towards Janus in this moment and toward

the bucks winning the way that they did was because of that, because of who he is more so than the small market stuff or the Milwaukee piece of it or how unlikely this champion might have been. There's just something so resonant about him in that moment being so purely unabashedly himself and so absolutely thrilled. It was just incredible to watch. I don't think we get many moments of like that in the NBA when there's just a cynicism that floats over the sport a lot of times, especially for those of us on the writing side, people can get a little jaded about seeing champion after champion story after story, but there's something that Janus is that really sticks out. And that's what popped from this excerpt from your book, Mary, and why I can't wait

to read the rest. It's just, there's something about his personality that just grabs you. Yeah, I have, one of my friends is, that was just over right now. And I'm going to sound like 40 when I say this. I'm not. But I'm also terrified of getting a TikTok addiction, so I don't have it on my phone. Apparently, Janice is just all over TikTok right now, you guys. Um, because, Oh, he does have like these little... First of all, there's a post-game podium quotes, but then like there was a moment after the game where he's FaceTiming.

Miran, do you know who he's FaceTiming? I do not know which... There's been many FaceTime. There's the NASA's FaceTime. There's a whole lot going on. There's, of course, the Chick-fil-A FaceTime. I don't know which FaceTime. It looked like he was like gesturing someone

to come down to the floor or something like that. Oh, okay. Yeah, it looked like. It looked like he wanted his family there, right? Like whether it was his wife and kids or maybe it was synassus. Although synasis would have been there as a member of the team, I guess, right? Like on the stage. He was in COVID protocols, though.

Oh, right. Right. Maybe it was break the protocols. Come to the floor. Yeah, yeah. But there was that one, which, I mean, that just kind of shows you, like, you know, he had just had this incredible moment. And the man who was always present was somehow not that present in the moment because he

wanted his family there. which, I mean, that seems like a really major theme in your book, and that's something I want to get to as well. But in general, like, there are so many of these moments of Janus that are coming out now that are just incredible. He is such a charismatic person. We're going to talk about his press conferences later. But he's out there now, and I think it's really interesting.

And he is, there is something that's different about him. And different, I mean, different is interesting, right? Because different can mean we're just naturally we're drawn to novelty. It can also mean we're maybe making some comparisons that maybe we shouldn't be making. Mirren, in your story, there was a part where Jared Dudley says, unlike Americans, he had no ego. He was always that guy that didn't care about getting dunked on. I respected him for that.

I respected his hunger. I thought that was really interesting because it gets at something that's obviously true about Janus. But I wanted to kind of unpack like this conversation, it seems like, is going on about like international players versus versus American players. Yeah. I mean, when Janice was growing up, in addition to not having ego, he also publicly displayed emotions.

So that was one of the most interesting things I found in reporting my book is that Janice at like 16, 17 years old, if he's dissatisfied with his performance, he would openly start crying on the bench. And, you know, and it was so fascinating because he gets to Milwaukee and Robert Hackett, the strength coach of the bucks tells me that he would just see Janice tear up on the bench and he had to tell him, you can't cry in the NBA. And we were talking about, we were talking about cultural differences and how boys and men are raised in America versus internationally. And Robert Hackett was like, I don't know, is that a cultural thing? But I think to the larger point is that Janice grew up embracing his sensitivity and I would say emotional intelligence. I fully support this. I think it's awesome. And it goes back to what you just said, Syriot, about being humble because Janice always blamed himself if he didn't perform up to standard while he was growing up.

It was never, oh, it's that person's fault. It's always internal. And so it does not surprise me that when he gets to the NBA and he continues to rise and rise and rise and play at the level he is now, there's just a level of accountability and responsibility that you do see in a lot of European players. who are not stuffed in gyms eight hours a day across 12 court gyms playing game after game after game. They're working on their passing. They're working on good sportsmanship.

There's just a different level of, I guess, education that they have than that we have. Yeah, man, that's so interesting because, like, I think when we talk about this stuff, it's a little bit reductive because I think a lot of times, fans, scouts, they care about what some, who somebody is as opposed to like what made them that way and then as a result like, you know, how you can maybe put them in an environment where they can thrive. But being able to blame yourself, being able to be vulnerable, that's, those are learned behaviors. And it just seems like with Janice, he was actually able to learn those behaviors in a place that wasn't going to punish him for it. Like he could cry and that wasn't considered a bad thing or like,

and that, that vulnerability leads you to be able to blame yourself without it feeling like this thing whereas you know American players I just feel like the pressures are different you know and there's also like you mentioned cynicism I it feels to him tell me if this is true or not like I'm sure that maybe there is some weird stuff going on in Greece like he's obviously he's obviously a very interesting prospect of as a basketball player but it seems like maybe he didn't encounter some of like the business side that could make an American player likely to be more cynical, like when they see how much somebody just wants to, like, buy them when they're 14 years old? Well, exactly because Janus was not a coveted prospect. I think that's the best part of his story,

is that he starts playing at 13, doesn't even start regularly playing until age 16. He somehow gets the attention of international and NBA scouts because a video circulates about him. They're coming to see him, not because they don't know if he's talented, they're coming to see him because they don't know how good he is. So he is never dubbed like the next two ever. There's no pressure on him. They just want to see what he can do. The pressure he feels is different.

It's how can I provide food for my family? How can I move us to America? In one of the chapters about Atlanta's interest in Janus, I chronicle this secret meeting in Italy between Atlanta staffers and Janus at his agents. And they're in this like really short. Saudi basement, the lights are dim, everyone's paranoid that people can see it. And this staffer told me that one of the things that Yannis expressed to them was that I want my whole family to come to the U.S., and I want my brothers to get an education, and I want them to go to college. So again,

there's just like a different focus and a mindset from him and his circumstances and where he's coming from than a lot of kids in the U.S. who are like, am I on this ranking list? Am I on this ranking list? am I going to be here? What tournament are we at? Like, it's just, it's a completely different mindset. That's where it gets complicated for me because you have these overarching cultural differences that are really well articulated from the AAU system to the international, you know, institutes of sport and things like that. There's clear contrast there. But as you laid out, Mirren, just the fact that he was so underscouted for so long and not on the radar for so long makes his story unique from a Ricky Rubio or a Luca Donchich, these guys who were in professional system,

from the time they were teenagers. So, you know, I, my natural instinct is to push back against the Jared Dudley type quotes, the idea that like, oh, you know, because he's an international player, he doesn't have ego in the same way American players do. Because I think that comes from his story, not from growing up in Europe. It comes from his exact circumstances. It comes from exactly who he was. Because you just can't convince me that Pao Gasol didn't come here with ego, that Drazen Petrovich didn't come here with ego. Like, those players are proud players. There's just something about, again, if you are under the radar, if you have to kind of stake your claim on the map the way Janus did, you're just going to have a different mentality and a

different temperament. And keep in mind that Janus was humble, but he also had a bit of spice to him. He was always, you know, rookie year, he would go around and introduce himself to teammates. I'm the Greek freak. I'm going to average 20 and 10 next year. I'm going to do this. I'm going to be an all-star. I'm going to be in Milwaukee for the next 20 years. So, you know, Rob, you're absolutely right. Like, in no way ever do I want to suggest that, you know, international players humble, American players, arrogant. Like, of course not.

And there's so many humble American players that we see. But yes, Yannis was always keenly aware of who was the superstar at the time and how he wanted to be better than them. And he took it personally when he went against Kevin Durant. He took it personally when he went against LeBron Jace. And those guys are like, okay, but who are you? You know, like Carmelo, Carmelo Anthony and Janus going against each other rookie year was just so funny because Janice is talking smack to Carmelo Anthony. And I interviewed Carmelo for the book.

And Carmelo was like, I just kept looking at him like, okay. You know, like he's really competitive. Like he really wants it. So yes, we're talking about the humility. But there's also that bit of fire in him that's like, no, I got this. That's really interesting because the other. thing he was doing in his his second year and this was in your excerpt was he was saying he was basically just like not accepting the notion that he would be the robin um to to jibari parker which in hindsight

yeah you know i think he was on to something there um but at the time nobody nobody knew who yannis could be and jubari parker was the number two pick in the draft and was also i mean we're talking about these contrasts right like jibari parker was a star from the time i i i knew that you know what i was who Japari Parker was like from the time that I think he was like a I don't know like 15 16 years old right um and he came in being that dude right like he was he was from very nearby Chicago there were a lot of people in Milwaukee that were excited about him at the time and like for yannis to have that that was one of the most illuminating things in your story because that is not a yonanist story that we often hear right like that is the opposite of all the stuff that we're getting right now um

So two things there. Like I feel like there's this, these flagpoles that you often have as an American player or even like somebody like Luca Dantachish who grew up watching the NBA where it's like I'm going to be an all star. I'm going to be all NBA. I'm going to be MVP. I'm going to be all these things, right? That you don't really necessarily have. And I think we need to also understand like just how like, like, like think about when you were a kid and the things that like, you know, society told you to care about. Right.

We all carry that stuff with us as much as we try not to and like we all have our own relationship with it. That is the relationship that a lot of American prospects have with the accolades that they feel the pressure to get. With Janus, obviously not the case early, but then, you know, started saying things like, like, you know, what didn't really necessarily care about the NBA, but then also had this, this in him, right? So how did he kind of figure out, like, what he needed to be in the NBA or what he was supposed to be in the NBA? And from there also, like, you know, how did he kind of soften out a little bit? Because it seems like, you know, he just doesn't seem to be that guy anymore. Well, I think the first thing is that, you know, Yanos would be the first to say the self-made narrative is completely off base.

It took a village to make him into the player that he is. And I think that is one critical difference between a lot of younger guys and the wisdom that Janus had early. He comes to the bucks and he has not really seriously weightlifted before. But instead of being ashamed that his shortcomings, he says to Robert Hackers, at the strength coach, teach me how to bench press. And the bar is just trembling and Janice is struggling, but he works and he works and he works. And that's because of the trait that he has as a good listener. So it's not just like internal will. It's not just work ethic. It's being a good listener and having people around you that develop you and being open enough to be

a receptor to that. Josh Oppenheimer and him would shoot very late into the night rookie year. Larry drew the coach, he would text him late at night and talk about plays. John Hammond, the GM, would always say to him, you can do this. I believe in you. Anytime Janus did something, Hammond would be out of his seat squealing, you know, happy for him. This is an organization where every single person did whatever they could to make Janus better. So I just think it's important to note that that was a huge part of Janus's growth, is all the people that invested in him.

and the willingness to listen to those people. And this is where, you know, again, to Jared Dudley's point, I think there is a lot of truth to the idea of Janus as this player who is at least a different kind of ego than a lot of other NBA players do. It takes a certain kind of ego to be an MVP and give up the ball to your teammates in crucial playoff games. That takes a certain kind of player. And it takes a certain kind of ego to listen to your strength coach, to say, even though I got to the NBA, I need to be overhauled, I need to be changed. I need to be shaped as a person and as a player.

That's a lot. That's a lot for an 18-year-old and 19-year-old coming into the NBA to be able to absorb. Keep in mind, it's not fun when your coach benches you, Jason Kidd, and says, sorry, you didn't come with enough intensity. I'm sitting you on the bench. I mean, that, to me, I don't know about you, Sarah, but I'm triggered from, like, high school basketball, like, all of this stuff. You don't see that in the NBA, you know what I mean?

So, but for Janus to just take it and he's seething on the bench, like, all right, I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you. Again, it's like, I'm not happy with this circumstance, but I'm going to listen and I'm going to get better. You could push Janus because you knew he was going to take it the right way. And no matter how angry he got, he was going to correct himself, gather himself. Again, that's emotional maturity. We're hearing that so much now when everybody's obsessed with his quotes about ego and, wow, he's so wise. but, you know, emotional maturity shows up on the court all the time.

It's that moment where Janus is going full speed down court and he thinks Pat has a better shot and he dishes it to Pat. And the ego in Janus could say, well, let me go for 52. But the basketball player in him, the humility, the playing the right way is like, no, Pat has a better shot. I trust him. That's leadership. I'm going to pass the ball.

So, you know, it's just so interesting to talk with you guys about all these early moments that we totally see clear correlations to the stuff we're seeing now. Another one of those early moments, we talked about this last night, actually, his rookie year. I was listening to the press box and you mentioned that in his rookie year, he almost quit. So for the people who haven't listened, can you kind of just take us through that? Yeah. So the background on this is that I'm sure our listeners can remember how endearing Janus was and how much he was called adorable his rookie year.

So 2013 to 14, he tweets, I taste a smoothie for the first time. He's just this very, like, goofy, lovable kid. And we're all just falling in love with him, falling in love with America at once. It's the first cult internet sensation, I think, of recent memory I can think of, where it's this frenzy because of this personality. But what people didn't know and what I discovered through my reporting for the book, especially talking with the family is that he was actually deeply, deeply lonely and sad and lost.

And that is because his family was not able to come over with him at first. Their visas got denied twice at one point. Think about sharing a bed, for example, with your brothers all your life. Literally, you are sleeping body to body. And then all of a sudden you're in a strange country where you don't speak perfect English. and you're just, it's you in your bed alone. And you don't really know what to do with your free time. You don't know where to go.

You haven't really made a whole lot of friends yet. You're lonely. And so Alex, the youngest brother, told me that Janus basically said to him, the family and the agents, if you guys can't come over here, I'm going back to Greece. Because what good is having money and having success if you can't have it with the people that matter most to you? Bars. I'm done.

It's all downhill from here. I can't follow it up. It's all downhill from here. I disagree. I disagree. Go ahead. I was just going to say that's such an evocative idea going from it takes a village to raise Janus to what do you do without your support system when you're stripped of it in those circumstances. He's not the first player to go through this.

It's a pretty common story in the NBA, whether you're coming from another continent or just moving across the country, whatever it is. but it makes sense that someone would be kind of shaken to their core in that way to question, is this what I really want when all the people who have put you in that place aren't there to both for you to share with them and to support you in that time. That's why when players don't perform well and everyone's trying to find like the basketball thing to like justify why or like are they injured, you know, I'm just like the weirdo that's like I wonder what's going on in their personal life. I wonder if they called their mom this week.

I wonder if, you know, they broke up with their girlfriend. Like I'm always thinking of like my coaches used to say, when you step on the court leave everything at the door. And I always thought that was the dumbest thing. Of course I can't leave everything at the door. I'm a human being. And so I look at Janus and I'm like, you know, this person tried his hardest to leave everything at the door.

He never let his play show that he was sad. or lonely. He played hard to the end of the whistle. Like he he brought it that rookie year. You know, he really tried his ass off every game. But it is so clear that there are more factors at hand in somebody's success than just what's going on on the basketball court. And John Hammond, I'll just say lastly, as the GM was very sensitive to this because he was with the pistons when they had the disastrous Star for Militius pitch. And he's, John Hammond told me the one reason among many that he thinks that Darko didn't work out is because there just wasn't family support

and he was 18 years old in a foreign country. And so John was like, we need to do everything in our power to get the family of Janus to come here because he needs that support system. So, you know, if Janus gets drafted to a bigger team that didn't look after him in this sort of patriarchal nurturing way,

like I don't know if he gets the support that he needs. How did they, the family eventually get to Milwaukee? Yeah, so luckily Milwaukee was owned by a U.S. senator at the time, Herb Cole, and him and his assistant, whose name is Joanne Anton, and they worked tirelessly behind the scenes for months to get them over here. And it is rumored. I talked with some officials in government that it went as high as the Secretary of State at the time, which was John Kerry. So if Herb Cole is not the senator, I do not know if the family would have got the proper document. to come over, but it's just crazy because his mood completely shifted once the family arrived in America. So what you're saying is Janus coming here, winning the MVP, is a liberal globalist conspiracy, just like all the other conspiracies we've seen over the last year. It's just a way to make the NBA less American, even more un-American than it already is.

he's an industry he's an industry plant like little nazex i can't i can't industry baby dropping dropping by the time this podcast is out whoever on twitter don't add me i don't i don't want to social media like that mary yeah mirin doesn't actually have twitter right now um she's promoting a book so she decided i don't on social media, so don't try to find her Twitter. Mirren, did you interview John Kerry for this story? No. For this book? Did you try? I did try. Very hard. She's so perfect. I'm sad. I'm like, honest, I feel like I failed. I'm like, why didn't I get the guy? Well, he's going to regret it now. He's going to regret it now. He's probably like, ah, some All-Star, whatever. Now he's, you know, the biggest story ever. Could have been interviewed 222.

Oh my God Rob you already know I I I at one point I was like Miran like you have to stop like you like you have to there's a deadline you have to meet it you can't you have to stop but with Janice there's just like so many fascinating people behind the scenes Mirren who was who was a two interview questions and we'll get back to Janice himself um who was the last person you interviewed for the story for the book keep saying story okay I swear to God this is not false when I um went on the BS pod. I had 220 interviews and I thought I was done. And then somebody who is very actually integral to this story that I have no idea how I couldn't find them before emailed me and was like, I just listened to you on the pod. And I was involved in this part of the story. And I'd love to talk. And he became 221.

And this person, the subject line was interviewed 221. Can you tell us who it was? I can't. I can't. Wow. I know. Wow. Secret agent. And when I'm not nerding out reading books and trying to write for the ringer and avoiding social media, I'm a secret agent. That's really what it is. If there's anybody who could pull it off. What was the hardest interview to get? The hardest interview. Other than I'm sure like Janus probably. Family. Yeah. The hardest interview to get a deep. A deep. but I would say his childhood teammate and close friend,

his name is Rahman Rana. And I didn't know he existed because he only played for Philith Lettico's for a little bit. And then I got connected with him super late in the game. I think I had like a month to go before a deadline. And so basically this kid lived in Sepolia as well. His father had difficulties. And at one point they were making what's the equivalent to like $10 a day or something as a family. And Spiros, the guy that spotted Janus, spotted Rana on the street as he was heading into a store.

And Rana is six feet tall. And Sparrow's goes, you should play basketball. It's the same thing. So Rana shows up to practice. Shout out Spiros, by the way. You know, just none of this happens without Spiros. Spiros. And they get on the court.

And it's so funny because Rana is the inferior basketball player. Janus is way better than him. But they like hate each other on the court for some reason. They're just like friend and not even frenemies. They're just enemies. But then they actually get to talking one day after practice. And, you know, the conversations got serious. Oh, yeah, my family struggles as well.

And then they both started talking about the racism that they experienced being in Athens and the different insults that each of them were called. And then they started hanging out like all the time and they realized how much they had in common. And Rana actually has one of my favorite anecdotes in the book and I realize I'm drowning on. But I'll just say that Rana, Rana is Muslim. And so when Janus came to him and said, hey, do you want to go to my church? The priest often gives food for those of us that don't have any. We can get you a hot plate. Rana's like, I can't.

I'm Muslim. I don't know if he'll accept me. Janus is like, don't worry. I got this. So Janus is like 14. And again, like the most endearing like, I got this, bro. Don't worry about it. So they go to the church and the priest walks up to them.

And Janus is like putting his hand around Rana's shoulders. is like, hey, look at my friend. He's such a good Christian boy. Oh, he's just the best. Like, he's just such a good boy. He's just a really nice guy. Yeah, he's like, just such a good Christian. Like, can he have some food too?

And then the priest just looks at Rana. And Rana is losing his shit. He's like, oh, my God. He's going to know that I'm not Christian. Oh, my God. And then the priest is like, okay, here's some suflatfi over there. And so, Janus is like, see, you got to trust me, bro. And then I just, you know, I just love that because, again, it's the same tinkle.

It's the same, you know, chick-fil-A. He's always been like that. Yeah. No ice. No ice in the chicken chip-lay drink order. Half lemonade, half spray. Which, dude, like, just, like, the daughter of an immigrant in me was just like, yes. I just, I got to respect the hustle of trying to get free Chick-fil-A for life.

from like the random person manning the drive-through line. Incredible. Do I live under a rock? Is Sprite and lemonade good? Yes. So it's basically just like it carbonates your lemonade. But more than that, I just, I do live under a rock. So as much living under a rock as much as like, well, you were an athlete growing out.

And you're very, I mean, as we know, you're very disciplined, right? I imagine you probably didn't have enough fast food that you were like, let me experiment with these different, I did not like it. I will say the one thing, the one thing I missed from, you know, pre-pandemic was like traveling for work and when, no matter what airport you're at, you're at, the Chick-fil-A is open at like 3 a.m. And I miss that. I'm very, I mean, I'm just going to hit you up, hit you up after about Robin because it seems like a very very interesting person but we should probably move on to guys um so another thing from his rookie year uh another thing of just the way that

we saw the moment versus what the moment was actually like uh i went back and found it and i'm talking about the time that he was picked up by some random milwaukee bucks fans in his rookie year and he was like he was late he was running to the game and they gave him a ride to the game um chris manix uh with with s i he was the one who wrote the profile and this was actually naughty i don't think it was in the story he tweeted at the time favorite of many anecdotes from yannis onto ticumpo reporting early in the season yannis took a cab to western union to send money home after sending all the money he could to grease he realized he didn't have enough left for cab fare it was game day so he started running he got about a mile before

a couple stopped asked him if he was a Bucks rookie. He said yes. They picked him up and dropped him off at the arena. At the time, and this is, you know, this includes myself and I think like pretty much, like I just, I don't think I even like really thought about this interaction as much as I should have or this experience. But at the time, it was very much considered like, oh my God, yeah, it's just so random. He's just so random. Like, you know, like, can you give us a little bit of insight into what that was like for Janus? Yeah, so I really enjoyed my interview with the woman who was driving the car. Her name is Jane. And you found her. I found Jane and she's lovely. And her name's Jane Gallup. And so basically, Jane has been a Bucks fan all her life. Jane's son loved the Bucks. And that was the one thing that brought them together. So Jane, she was going to Gloriaos in Milwaukee. And she's.

stops and she sees this like very tall figure coming down the street and she's wondering why he has a windbreaker on in Milwaukee and is like what the heck I bet he's cold and then um she's like oh my god it's yonis and then they decide to like he's running you know he needs to go somewhere and yonis just says can you take me to the bradley center like as if she you know jane is a taxi jane is not a taxi and um i believe it's a honda i have the exact car in the book but i'm it's slipping my mind, but it's a very petite car. She has him stuffed into the backseat. It's deeply uncomfortable.

I know it's a very feel-good story, but it's actually like deeply weird and uncomfortable. And like this would never happen in L.A. And this is another reason why I love Milwaukee as an adopted chronicler of the city. And so he's just like barely fitting in. He looks nervous. They're not really talking to each other. It's the most awkward thing.

And then Jane is just thinking, like maternal instincts, he looks so cold. And she's wondering why he doesn't own a heavier jacket. And all he has is this windbreaker. And she, she's like so nervous because it's Janice. And she happens to be a fan that she's kicking herself for not saying, let's stop and get you a jacket, you know, because it's also, you don't want to be like so paternalistic.

Like, can I take care of you? You know, the whole thing is right. Imagine us rolling up here in a way. You're just not waking up that day thinking. Yeah. And then we just, and a guy on the Lakers is like on the corner and you're like, hey, come in the car. Like this is just all improbable. And so anyways, they get out of the car and they hug, which is really cute.

And then he signs his autograph in both Greek and English. And then John Hammond gets there and he's furious and he's like, don't get in the car with strangers. Like if you need a ride, you call me. And I just feel like, again, it's this like familial environment. And I should say the reason why Janice was running is because he sent all his money to his family at the Western Credit Union nearby. Well, and to be fair to Jane, even if she had offered to get him a coat, I don't know that he would have accepted it if he's sending all his money to his family. And I know you've told the story, Mirren, too, about how he was saving his per diems to mail to his family. That's just a totally different circumstance from what a lot of guys in the NBA are dealing with.

Yeah, like he, a PlayStation was like the thing that he had wanted a lot in childhood and they couldn't afford at times. And it was always suppressing want for need and learning the difference between the two. And so by the time he gets to Milwaukee, he sees a PlayStation and on impulse he buys it. And then he berates himself for this rash decision. And he's just like, you shouldn't have spent that much money. That's a really expensive purchase. Why did you do that? How could you do that?

how could you be living so privilously when people at home are suffering and he returned the PlayStation the next morning? Wow. We're all just doing the puppy dog face for our listeners. Yeah, just so you guys know. Has he gotten to a place? Like, that's a process, right? I think that, like, one of the most jarring things, at least, like, you know, from just talking to people around me, I was born in Canada, but just moving from a, from a, foreign place and just not having a lot is just it's jarring just how many things there are

there's there's a lot of actually ronnie cheng does a really great standout bit on this just everyone should go watch it just about america has too much stuff and like this goes for like pretty much the entire western world um but like there's there's that guilt right um but now you know he's in a different position in his life right now and his family's settled and stuff like has he been able to, I don't know if you guys talked about this or like even got got down this road, but like, has he been able to like just be more comfortable with like, you know, it's okay for me to want this. I can do some things for myself here. Yeah.

So it has been a process. It's been a slower process. You know, he didn't fly and purchase first class seats until that first deal in 2016 to 17 when he got that extension. So imagine Janus just not wanting. wanting to pay for first class or even just the comfort of additional seats because to accommodate his body, that's how hesitant he is to spend money. As someone who is seven inches shorter than Janus, I cannot articulate to you the insanity of that idea.

Like, I'm already about to murder anyone who reclines in the seat in front of me. Imagine Janus folding himself into a coach seat. Exactly. No, exactly, Rob. And also nice just getting in that you're over six feet tall there, Rob. I'm just sneaking in. Okay, Rob. Rob.

Okay, while we're out of, I'm five feet, everyone. Okay, that's not a flex because everyone thinks I'm an intern. And so that's unfortunate when I go into locker rooms. But yes, with Janice, one of my favorite quotes from my interview with him when I was reporting the story for Bleacher Report, which this book was born out of. He said, I didn't have a choice. I had to be motivated. I didn't grow up with all the money.

Alex, his youngest brother, is growing up in a completely different financial situation. He has all the shoes he wants. He has the economic privilege. He went to private schools. So Janus became very conscious of the way that his upbringing was so different from the way his youngest brother is now living in America. And so Janus constantly reminds him just because your bank account changes. it doesn't mean you need to change.

And so he becomes, you know, of course, like more accepting of spending money, not to the, I guess, part where, you know, he was afraid to buy a PlayStation. But again, he never became frivolous with it. You know, he's always very smart about it. And even though he knows he will have generational wealth forever with his family members, he's not going to go crazy because he's still the same person. But you're right. through it, like, it is an adjustment, and it happens for a lot of people that suddenly make a ton of

money. And Janus was the one player I found out who requested to not do direct deposit that rookie year because he needed to hold the money in his hand and feel it to trust that it would be there because he was so used to feeling anxiety about it. Wow. I do love in this excerpt that we ran on the ringers, Mirren, just all the different ways. ways in which Janice's experience is distilled down for his brothers. Like you just said, just the idea that Alex would have things that he couldn't have. He's taking a certain kind of, a certain kind of coaching, we'll say from Jason Kidd in terms of some of the mind games and stuff that were being played. And yet when he coaches Alex up, it's all about being free, being yourself,

settling in, being comfortable, things that he was not necessarily hearing. And I love too, how you noted that, you know, he's taking all these notes in this black notebook he's carrying around not just for how to improve his game, but like things he can teach his brothers. There's just there's just something so incredible about that kind of generational knowledge that's being formed throughout the Anta Dacompo's and their immigration to America. Oh, yeah. And it goes so much beyond the notebook, too. Janus, imagine the schedule of an NBA player.

You barely have time to eat. Janus made sure, even during the NBA season, to coach Alex's high school team. So there was one of my favorite anecdotes from the book. There was one practice where Janice came to Dominican's gym, which is the high school name. And he's not just like chilling in the stands. He's like, you go there. I need you to get better at this, blah, blah, blah. He's talking to all players.

He's talking to the kids that never get off the bench. And they're like, Janus, you know, I don't play, right? And Janus is like trying to get everybody right. And then players are being like super lackadaisical. And Janus just like stops everyone. And around this time, Eric Ledzo had just signed a big deal and extension. And Janice is like, do you guys think that Eric is satisfied now that he has got all this money and all this success? No, he's in the gym working.

And then, you know, he keeps asking them rhetorical questions. Do you think we're better than Philly? Like, do you think that we can beat these teams? And the bucks low-key could because at the time they were number one seed if playoff pairings had been determined. But his point was never stop working. don't be complacent. And the fact that he cared enough to share this wisdom at his baby brother's practice and was just as passionate, I would say, if not more, than the players there,

really says volumes about the kind of role model Janice aspires to be in his brother's lives as more than just a brother, but somebody who's actively presently there. He's like he's got the, it's like he's trying to come up with a blueprint that he never had, really. Yeah. And a blueprint that is so simple in a way. We're taught as young athletes, work hard, be a good teammate, don't complain, and just show up. And it's like, it's not the sexiest thing in the world, but that's what Janice does. And he transforms his game, his body, his brother's games, and their bodies into champions.

Like the blueprint is really simple. I know that sounds crazy. It's just, it's really simple. And maybe that's why people don't talk about it with Janus as much because what work ethic is boring. I think work ethic is fascinating. But yeah, maybe that's why Janus is so undercovered. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I think we're obviously going to get to a place where he's he's not as undercovered. Or maybe after your book comes out, everyone's like, I can't really can't write about Janus for a while now. But it is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is interesting. I think the reasons that, and this is what I love about your work in general, too, like the reasons that people are motivated to work that hard are very interesting. At the end of the day, the process for the most successful people is generally going to be the same. But it's more about like, how do you actually will yourself to do that every single day? And I think we are all kind of starting to get a glimpse of understanding that about Janus.

Before we close out, I want to get both of your guys's favorite Janus postgame podium quotes. He is like he's actually like a Greek philosopher at this point. He's like, he's better. I think he'd be a great writer. He'd be a great writer.

He would be an exceptional writer. Don't give him any ideas. We don't need the competition. Come on. No, we don't. We're all going to lose our jobs. It's fine. We don't. We don't. Although I wonder if Janice also just like would like, would Janus be like the type of person who finds there's like something frivolous about stories? I feel like he could be like that. You know what I mean? I think Rob, you go ahead. I'm formulating. You really think Janice is above like crunch on some Netflix? No, no, no. But I mean about, you know, just actually wanting to dig into into something like that.

to want to tell stories. Look, he's a good listener. That's what makes a great reporter. He'd be an excellent reporter. You know, his friendship with Kobe, he's technically interviewed Kobe numerous times. It's not an interview necessarily. It's just he just wants advice from people, you know? I think he'd be a fantastic reporter because he doesn't find himself.

Yeah. So, okay, so this would have been Kobe's farewell tour season, the year. is slipping, but Jason Kidd makes Janus point guard, like officially for a string of games, and it's the first string of triple doubles Yonis has in his career, and one of those is over Kobe. And after the game, Jason Kidd sets up a private meeting between Kobe and Yonis. And the two of, Janus is, first of all, he's just like, I can't believe it. Like, I'm in a room with Kobe Bryant. You know, he doesn't try to play it cool, like a lot of people, like, oh, yeah, I was with

LeBron, you know. he's just like oh my god like sir like rob this is like if right thompson and i like hung out i would be like dying um and so that's what it's like with cobi bryan and so yannis is dying and cobi's just like you have to get in the gym every day and work on your shot you have to be relentless you have to be a killer you have to be curious um and so yannis is practically like squealing after the meeting he's just going around the locker room coby said this Kobe said this i got to do this and you know it's it's such a refreshing excitement because he has such a reverence for those that have come before him. How did that develop? Because like we were talking about earlier, it's not like he was,

you know, a big NBA fan growing up. And what kind of players does he like? Like, who does he kind of gravitate towards? Right. So when Janus was growing up, this was, this was super funny. So he starts getting good. And then somebody on the on the playground that they're playing at says like, wow, you're really good. You're like Dr. Jay. And then Janice and his brothers look at each other like, Okay, yeah, they just nod. And then they just looking at each other after like, who's Dr. J? And then they like Google Dr. J. Because they would get a couple euros and go to the internet cafes and Google these people.

And they started going on YouTube. They would pay for like an hour. It was hard, obviously, to get money, but they would spend whatever they could on, you know, an hour's time looking at YouTube clips. And they discovered Blake Griffin, which is just like fascinating to me, first of all. We don't appreciate the fact that Janus grew up watching Blake Griffin. Janice grew up watching LeBron. He is clearly the next generation, and I've lost all track of time, but that is so

undercovered, I think. But anyways, he becomes enamored with Alan Iverson to the point where he asks their mom, Veronica, to braid his hair so he can look like Alan Iverson with the cornrows. And yeah, so they're enamored. Did she do it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, hell, yeah. And then, yeah.

She's like, really? And then he's like, yes, no, I'm serious. And so she does it. And then he becomes enamored with Kobe. And he watches the Boston series against the Kevin Garnett and the Celtics and Paul Pierce. And then he discovers LeBron. So he's aware of these people. He would watch these motivational videos on YouTube that have a really, like, I would say, corny in my view.

audio voice in the background of like, you know, we can do it, put in your work, sacrifice, you know, it's just like very melodic and I'm totally embarrassing myself so much this podcast. And basically, Janus was just hooked and he would watch these players, but he didn't necessarily know more than that, you know, like when he gets to his first practice in Milwaukee, Larry Drew's like, you're guarding OJ Mayo and Janus is like, who is OJ Mayo? And OJ Mayo is like so insulted because he's OJ Mayo at that point, you know. So he doesn't, he has people that he's enamored by. Like Kevin Durant was his number one favorite.

But he didn't really know too many at that point. All right. Let's do quotes. You know what? I really loved. I know people are going crazy over the humble one and the ego one and the tinkle one. I actually love how it wasn't necessarily what he said about the super team. And I did it the hard way.

It was how emphatic he was while he said it. It's easy to go somewhere and go winning championship with somebody else. It's easy. I could go, I don't put anybody in the spot, but I could go to a super team and just do my part and win a championship. But this is the hard way to do it and this is the way I chose to do it. And we did it. You could like feel it.

Like you could just feel him just, oh, I did it. You know, like I just felt this like secondhand. termination to me. Talk your shit, Janice. Talk your shit. You know, I was just like, God, you can feel his passion through the TV screen. That's what I love about him. That's why he plays so hard. He just, I, yes, he's dominant 40 point games. We could name all the stats. But it's the passion. It's the fervor. I, that is what draws me in. I felt like it was something he had felt for a while and didn't want to say and then he started to say it and he was like oh shit I'm saying and then he was like well I guess I guess if I'm going to say it then I might as well

just really say I'm kidding but I'm not which was awesome the way he was just he always he always says he's kidding like always right and then this was the first time that he said well actually I'm not but that's what that's what we've been talking about it's like that humility mixed with a little bit of that like you know the mainstream it's just he's got both of them and you need both And ego and confidence always exist together, right? Like, I think that's, that's the thing that, um, I hate, like, I hate the term ego management. Um, first of all, it's just not a very humanizing way to talk about people's feelings. Um, like, imagine if, imagine if it was called insecurity management, then how much of an asshole would you sound like?

I mean, maybe more accurate if we're being honest. No, exactly. Exactly. And it's just like your environment, but also like the thing about Janus that's so inspiring is the fact that like, everybody has these things, right? Like, you're trying, you're trying to have good motivations for what it is that you're doing. But we all have our shit that we want to let go of and escape and reinvent ourselves and all that stuff. And he would have had all the reason in the world to go and do that because he actually had, like, the burden and the opportunity of being in a completely different place. And he

chose the opposite thing. And I think that just shows you how much genuine pride he has and who he is. And that's very hard to achieve. And that's something you got to balance and actually sometimes work for too. And your environment really matters in those situations as well. That's why I just think it's really weird when people say he's not relatable.

I'm like, how? I could think of 20 different relatable things, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rob, what's your quote? Mine isn't a quote so much as a sound, which is after they won the championship. They're up there during the trophy present. and Malika Andrews, the great Malika Andrews, told Janus that the Ante Cumpo brothers

are three of them are now NBA champions. And the howl he led out in response to that, that pure jubilation in that moment, that was incredible. And we've been talking a lot about family and the importance of that to Janus and what it means to him to not only bring his family here, but to establish his brothers. They all want to play together on the same team someday. the fact that three of them are now champions and he got to have that moment

and we got to share that with him, I'll take that any day of the week. I love it. Yeah, you should have gone first. You definitely killed that. You definitely killed that. I'm going to go with, it was one of his last quotes

that he had before playing in game six. He was asked how he prepares for a game like this. You have to be in the present. And once that present comes, know what it takes to be successful. But right now you can, we don't know what it's going to take. It might be a defensive stop. It might be Drew coming and save it a day again.

You know, it might be Chris, him, 10th and points. It might be me blocking it. Like, we don't know what it's going to take, but I know that we have to be in the present. We have to enjoy it. We have to compete. For now, that's the three things I know. Once the game starts, every position is going to be different,

and we're going to figure out what it takes. to win the game. And I thought it was just a really interesting take on the, on the limits of preparation, I guess. He talks about this a lot where he just talks about how there's a certain point at which he just has to, as hard as he works, he has to let go and not think about basketball. And basketball can't be the biggest thing in the world. So he prepares. And then he doesn't try to figure out what is going to happen or how exactly. Like it was actually, it was, it was an answer to a very, like, almost cliche question. He was just like, it was like, what do you need to do it to beat the suns, right? And he's like, you never know what you need to do until you're

in the game, essentially. Like, you can prepare for all these different scenarios. And I thought it was so interesting because, like, you, A, basketball is absolutely that type of sport. Like, you kind of, like, you have to think about it a lot, but you can't think. Like, you absolutely cannot think. Otherwise, you're kind of screwed. And especially for a player like Janus, and it shows you, like, oh, that's how he, that's how he managed to block Aiton on a lob or, like, you. And, like, like, you know, block booker on a floater, things that don't happen. And like, it's just like,

what people call, like, the pure instinct plays was like, it was like a psychological version of that. And it kind of, it kind of put together the honest pieces for me. So that's, that's what it is for me. Rob,

is there anything we can plug? The ringer.com? Wow, company man. The excerpt from Mirren's book on the ringer.com. Obviously, obviously. But for you, Rob. Thanks, Rob. Look, come stop by the Ring Your NBA show all week, not just on the answer days for group chat.

Come hang with us earlier in the week too. But other than that, buy Mirren's book. Janice, The Improbable Rise of an NBA MVP, please. Amazon, all bookstores, et cetera, et cetera. I love it. I love it. We got to do interviews more often, guys. I should just have that ready to go.

I kind of figured that you do. Like, did you have to practice? I'm sure you've said it now enough times. but is that something you have to practice, like naming all the places you can get it? You know, this is new for me. I'm usually, like, not doing a whole lot of audio, so I'm definitely just like a newbie and, like, trial by fire and practicing. So, yeah, I mean, I try to shout out the indie bookstore in whatever city I'm talking to

before the interview. I love my indie bookstore, so, yeah. I'm just here shouting out Amazon. I'm hoping we can get a copy of your book on The Rock. that goes into space. That's what I'm looking for. I hear their slice out there. The improbable rise of Jeff Bezos.

Everyone, obviously go buy Mirren's book. Read the excerpt on the ringer.com or click it at longform.com. I would recommend doing it that way. You can give two sites a click. And we all obviously need those. But yeah, buy Mirren's book, Skylight book.

if you live in L.A. I know that's a spot for you. If anybody is, if anybody is actually listen to this from Edmonton, buy it from Audrey's books. Rob, do you have a local bookstore that you'd like to shout out? Oh, no, I'm against local bookstore. Strictly a Bezos man. But if you do, if you do want to be interviewed 223 apparently, you should email Mirren, get in the paperback version for later, get in the second edition. Well, you know, I'm obviously, you have to write, are you going to do extra reporting for the epilogue? Well, I'm like on a very long, like thread trying to figure that out right now. I mean, as the run was going, you know, people on Twitter, I said I'm so bad at social media,

but people are just so clever. You know, they have the Kermit typing meme. Like, there's Mirren writing an epilogue. And at first it was like funny because I was like, uh-huh, sure, no, I'm done with this book. I'm not going to, you know, it's done. It's done. Like, yeah, I need a break. But, you know, now I'm like, oh, shoot.

Like, I think I am writing something. but to be determined, we'll see. Yeah, as you're shipping a book, can we present you with more work to do, please? I'm like, excuse me. I need a break. The memes, the memes spoke it into existence. Oh, the memes. The memes are just flying. They're so good. Mirren, Rob, thank you so much for joining.

This was extremely fun. So fun. Thank you guys.