The Ringer NBA Show - How Far Can the Grizzlies Go? And What Now For the Hawks? | The Answer

Episode Date: January 15, 2022

Chris and Seerat discuss the advantages and pitfalls that can affect the younger teams in the NBA, notably the Memphis Grizzlies and Atlanta Hawks, whose trajectories appear to be crossing at this point of the season. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Seerat Sohi Production Assistant: Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's help everybody. I'm JJ John Gistramski. And I'm Jason Gough. And if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the big apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shottown with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests.

Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines. So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It is the answer. I am Chris Ryan. I'm joined as always by Siritt Sohey. What's up, Siritt?

Chris, how's it going? Sir, this week we're talking about youth. We're talking about whether or not you could actually win with kids in the NBA. I think two of the most interesting storylines that we've seen in this 2021, 2021-2020 season is the rise of the Memphis Grizzlies, the second youngest team in the NBA. And could we call it the fall, the collapse of the Atlanta? Hawks, who were last year's sort of upstart darlings led by this young core. A little bit of veteran, you know, spice thrown in there with your gallows and whatnots.

But for the most part, this Trey Young, you know, Kevin Herder, although missed the playoffs, DeAndre Hunter, Cam Reddish, like this core that was put together by GM Travis Slank was just like ascended and now have kind of really hit a brick wall and culminating with the trading of Cam Reddish to the New York Knicks this week. So Syriot and I are going to be talking a little bit about the Grizz and a little bit about the Hawks this week. Sir, do you find yourself gravitating towards the younger teams in the NBA that seem to be like putting together a little bit of like a bet on yourself core? Yeah, I feel like you always do, right? First of all, there's just a novelty of it. And then with the Hawks last year and the Grizzlies have a similar version of this, it was just really fun to watch Tray Young just, you know, destroy everybody, destroy the New York Knicks.

It was really fun to just watch Kevin Herder play like, you know, he had ice in his veins, John Collins kind of found a new gear at times. Everybody stepped up. Like they had a lot of injuries throughout that season. They had, you know, a coaching change. I don't remember now what they started as, but it was pretty bad. Like I think like 40 games into the season, I think they had won like 15 games or something like that. Like they were a pretty bad team.

Several athletic pieces about the state of that locker room at that point, yeah. Yes, many, many, many. cases of, you know, we had an unhappy John Collins situation. We had some contract extensions that hadn't been doled out yet to Collins and to Herder. You know, we had, we had injuries. We had the deadline nearing. It was, you know, honestly, it looked, it looks kind of similar to what the Hawks look like right now, honestly. It's, which is weird. Like, you know, and I think like that's kind of the first thing I want to go into with, with both of these teams. It's really fun to watch a team like the Grizzlies do what they're doing right now. I think they're like 20 and

five in the last 25 games. And they play in like such a fun way. It's like grit and grind like 2.0. Jaws spectacular. And it's it's a lot of fun to watch like a young superstar like that. Two superstars are kind of similar. I'm going to bring this up a little bit later. But, but there's, I've heard both of them get compared to Alan Iverson. And so and it's always fun to watch just a point guard, you know, be as relentless as either of those guys. So it's, it's fun. And on the other hand, like the hawks they look like man like this is like probably it's a sophomore slump but like it looks looks really bad at times and i think like the way to go into both these discussions is trying to maybe level both of them out a little bit because that's kind of the thing with youth right like when it's

bad it can look really bad and when it's when it's good you start just like your eyes get really big and start thinking about the things that are like oh and then you know Dylan brooks isn't even here yet and and all that stuff right so you can get really optimistic and you can get really pessimistic too. Everything is about expectations. So, you know, you go back to the 1112 Thunder, who go to the finals and lose to the heat, and then you go up to whatever the, like the 14, 15 Golden State Warriors, that is the eighth youngest team to ever win the NBA title. And by far, I think, the youngest to win it in the 21st century. So this idea that you could have this young core maybe offset with some veteran role players around them, but for the most part, betting on this, these,

three guys that we've brought up through our system. I think is really attractive. There's obviously going to be an attachment from the fan base to the roster. There's something romantic about younger players kind of accomplishing a lot earlier in their career because you just don't know what could come next. The trajectory could go up into the stars.

And I think that that Warriors team was really intoxicating for I won't say like major market, mid-market. I'll say non-free agent destination teams. You know, because you see, okay, so if we put together we get blessed enough to put together a Steph Dram on Clay Corps, which, you know, good luck.

That'll happen once every 40 years maybe. But if we shoot for something like that, who knows what the ceiling could be? And we have these guys under relatively reasonable financial control for those first few years of their career. And the Hawks are kind of the hangover of that, right? The Hawks are kind of in that zone right now where there had been some chatter. You've heard on other podcasts. I think, you know, I think Bill talks about this a little bit. but there had been some chatter about, like, that Hawks run happened without Hunter and Reddish.

And what was going to happen when Hunter and Reddish came back and you've already got Gallo, you've already got Bogdanovich, you've already got everybody who's like, well, I like to take 10 shots a game, right? Like, I like to, and if that's like a baseline? So what's going to happen when everybody wants their shots? And what's going to happen if you get into the disease of me and into the whose team is this? Who's playing for contracts? Who's playing for looks? John Collins has been very vocal about what he wants and what he wants his role to be.

You know, so you're almost seeing like before-after pictures with the Grizzlies and the Hawks right now, right? Yeah, it's interesting. So Travis Slank was the GM of or the assistant GM of the Warriors before he came over to the Hawks. And he's been very clear in that there's a certain type of player that he likes and there's a certain type of style that he likes. And a lot of it very much just goes back to like what the Warriors do. you know, the Hawks have spread the floor. I think, you know, the Trey Steph stuff is obviously a bit of a coincidence. But actually, like, Schenink's favorite type of player is like the, the guy that the Hawks

actually now kind of maybe had too much of. It's like the Cam Reddish type of player, the guy that they just traded, like a 6-8, 6-9 potential two-way player that has, you know, a lot of scoring potential. And less so with Reddish, although this was developing, but, you know, just astute playmates. So, like, you know, like a guy they signed in Bogdanukdanovich and, you know, the guy that they drafted and Kevin Herder. And John Collins, to a lesser extent, less of the playmaking and, but definitely similar height-wise that allows you to switch, similar in being two-way. They had a bit of a logjam, and that's, I think, part of the reason that they traded Cam. But before we get into the Cam trade, I just think that there is like, there's these things that were a little bit lost in translation.

in terms of maybe trying to recreate the Warriors. And I think the first thing is just the fact that the Warriors didn't really have a lot of the same type of player. Like they didn't have a lot of overlap in their roster itself. They did in some instances, right? Like they could obviously switch defensively. And I think that's a big reason why Schlank likes players like that. But they also had a lot of guys who were okay with not having the ball in their hands.

Draymond Green, Andre Agadola, Andrew Bogan in 2015. Harrison Barnes, yeah. Harrison Barnes. And Harrison Barnes is actually like, I was going to get to Harrison Barnes because he is in the draft range that a lot of the Hawks players are. But he was kind of one of the guy. He was really the one guy asked to make a lot, make a lot of sacrifices for his development, right? Whereas the Hawks, you know, like sometimes these things happen and you can't really do anything about them.

I think going into the season, like the Hawks kind of knew that they would have to make a lot of sacrifices and stuff. And that's something that, you know, the coaching staff really, like, you know, said over and over against the players. But it's a lot of players. Like, you have, you have John Collins, who was taken 19th. Same with Kevin Herder. You have, you had Reddish at 10th. Hunter was fourth. You know, obviously, Trey is a top five pick.

And, you know, you've even got Nick and Yucan, like, who's a six pick in last year's draft and has. some injuries last year, but, you know, probably didn't expect to just be playing, like, bit rotational minutes in his second year, right? Like, yeah. These are a lot of guys that you have asked to, to sacrifice their role. And probably not enough of, like, the release valve, like cogs that will always play defense that kind of like, you know, a player like Draymond Green, who, you know, other than, you know, the sabbatical that they all kind of took has never not played really hard defense, never not wanted to play basketball the right way. And, you know, always wants to make like the extra pass, regardless of what the situation is, right?

And I think the Hawks are in a situation where they have a lot of players who, coming into the NBA, like you said, it's that word, right? Expectations probably had a different conception of what they do, especially Cam Reddish who like had to take that sacrificial role at Duke after Zion Williamson got there, which I mean, it's hilarious that we are now making memes about that that potential trio getting together in New York. I don't know how he would feel about that. but, like, he's already been asked to do that.

It was kind of very clear that he didn't want to do that. The athletic reported after the trade that he had, you know, kind of requested that he had wanted out. I talked to him earlier this year for a piece that I wrote about the hawks that, you know, ended up kind of like, the problems that they have now are the same where he just didn't really seem that enthusiastic about the role he was in. Like, you know, there was a lot of like, like, I just have faith in God that things will change type of things, right? Right, but was it like, I just don't, I don't want to. to just spend my NBA career standing in the corner and playing defense? Like, what was it that he seemed to be longing for that, that he wanted as a different

scenario? I think it was a very fair thing in that, you know, Cam Reddish is a guy that we have all known about since he was in high school. He has a ton of potential. Can I just say something? I did not know that so many people had opinions about Cam Reddish until he got traded to the Knicks. Oh, my God.

And it's like, all of a sudden, everybody's like, I've been grinding on Cam Redish tape since he was in eighth grade. I'm like, did you? I have not watched this guy that much. Yo, Cam Reddish has a lot of stands. He has a lot of stands. I think, you know, he's had some fans that have turned on him probably as well. But, yeah, man, like, even with the Hawks, man,

like, I think Cam is a player that you can project a lot onto because, like, right now we still don't really know what he can fully do. And I think he was actually, I mean, like, you know, in fairness to the Hawks, they created a pretty good situation for him where he was, you know, he was kind of like trying to play a six-man role and getting to handle the ball a little bit more and, you know, slowly building his offensive game and that was probably the best that they were going to be able to do for him while trying to build this championship contender, which gets to like that. This is like the central tension, right? Like how do you develop a player like Cam Reddish,

DeAndre Hunter, Kevin Herder, John Collins, when, you know, like they all kind of want similar types of touches and, you know, maybe, like, for some of these guys, like, also, like, you know, grew up with an expectation of them. It's really interesting. You know, I, as a Sixers fan, I always had a sneaking suspicion that perhaps too much happened too soon for the Philly Corps, you know, for that, especially for that, the Ben Joelle duo, but in general, like, I was never really that anxious to move, you know, Sarge Covington, Simmons, Embed, even Fultz, like that kind of iteration of the team that they eventually did to bring in Butler. And then since they had Butler, they have essentially been looking for what is the next star level, all-star level player that we can,

because we have to take advantage of M. Bates Prime. And that has always been like the mantra. And I think that there can be a little bit of danger involved when you're like, it has to happen as soon as possible. You know, and you see that happen with the Hawks. And I know that the Hawks have an owner who I think is apparently really like go, go, go. Like I expect us to be a playoff team. like what do we have to do to maximize what we've got here. I don't necessarily think that the grizzlies are operating under the same kind of pressure, honestly. Like, I think that the grizzlies are obviously like one of like the two or three most heartwarming sports stories of the last 12 months in some ways. And the thing is, is that I don't really know which way the grizzlies should go.

So the hawks are a cautionary tale, but they're also like there's some some things that are unavoidable about what happened to them. They try to add some additional veteran help. I think to kind of bolster the young core that they had. And they wind up getting a pretty great run in the playoffs, beating the Knicks, beating the Sixers, going to the conference finals. That's actually, you know, like, it's not only what happened to, like, the Celtics a couple years ago.

You know what I mean? Like, where, you know, I think the Brown Tatum team that went to the conference finals and it's just like, oh, well, what can these guys be? Let's bring in the Haywards and whoever's, and let's try to make this into, like, a real finals contender. And they're still sort of unpacking, what they have done to that team over the last five years.

So you look at the gris, and there's two, a couple different ways they could go about it. They could, they could stand pat. They could just be this team. And I don't know. I mean, I think they can give anybody a game. I don't know what they're going to be like in a seven game series. But right now, like, are they the deepest team in the West? It's funny, it's funny you mentioned the Sixers and the Celtics because that is kind of,

I mean, let's kind of, let's take this back to the Hawks for a second here. Sure. Let's do the Sixers first, right? they actually made a really great trait for Butler. And that team was, you know, that was one shot away from, you know, getting to the conference finals. And you don't really know what is going to happen from there. What we do know is that they pushed the champions farther than anybody else that year. They were probably the second best team.

You know, obviously if the Warriors, like, you know, warriors just don't count. They would have won if they, if, if, if, uh, KD wasn't hurt. But it was really those two teams outside of the Warriors. and it wasn't that the fit didn't work on the floor, really. Like, they were figuring some stuff out. Like, once I think once the ball was more in Jimmy's hands, they were a really good team. And they could have gone far.

Like, if Jimmy would have resigned there, then you look at that trade and you're like, you know what, they actually cashed in at the right moment. And maybe that's a core, like, you know, keep JJ. That's a really good core. And then with the Celtics, too, like it's like you trade for Kyrie, which on paper looks great.

then we all know what happened there and then Hayward too which is like the ultimate one where it's like just incredibly unlucky the first game he ever plays he gets hurt and then they just never really figure it out but when you look at the Celtics right now they need exactly a guy like Gordon Hayward which is all of which is just to say

that like as with the Hawks not really being able to control you know the swiftness of this timeline and accidentally learning all the wrong lessons from the playoffs like you just can't control some of this stuff sometimes like team building just takes so much luck so much luck sure and this season more than ever i think that there are mitigating circumstances with like like covid absences and everything else where it doesn't something about this season like doesn't feel real even though you've had these incredible streaks

you've had these super red hot teams like you've seen teams persevere through like and what like even like what the heat kind of have managed to do despite the fact that i feel like every time i turn them on. Bam or Jimmy isn't playing, if not both are playing. But I guess like what I'm almost starting to develop a parental attachment to the gris. So like I'm almost like, where shall my son go from here? Yeah. And part of it is, you know, we're coming up on the trade deadline. They have a lot of assets. They have these three first round picks next year in the summer. And there's some guys out there that you were like, oh man. So like, should we start playing around with some Brandon Ingram trades here? What are we looking at?

And how much do you want to upset the apple cart of this nobody believes in us group of Grizzlies and bring in somebody from outside who might be able to take them to the next level? Then you start thinking about, like, is there like that Chris Paul veteran that could come in? There's never going to be another Chris Paul. But look what he did for the sons. Do the grizzlies need somebody like that? Or are they almost already the finished article? And they should just bet on Bain Jha and Jared.

and just sort of see what happens this season. They're in this really interesting spot. Yeah, they are. Like you said, I don't think there's necessarily that pressure that the Hawks had. Like, they're a very process-oriented franchise in Memphis. But that said, like, sometimes things happen that you can't necessarily control. Where, like, I think with the Hawks, Travis Link said something interesting where he talked about how, yes, you can say, like, yeah, we have finals expectations now.

We went to the conference finals last year, so now we have finals expectations. but the way he put it was basically that, like, you know, you have a core and you're not really going to get to, like, the conference finals and the finals every year. But you're going to always want to try to stay in the mix. You're going to want to try to like incrementally improve throughout the regular season because, like, you just don't know what's going to happen. I think that's realistic, right? Sure. I think that would be fine if they were sixth. I think being 12th is the problem.

Exactly. And they didn't do any of the things in the regular season that they needed to do, right? To, like, they haven't really used this as a stepping stone, right? like they almost have become like a little too like I think they started to believe too much in their talent after that run right like all the comebacks against the sixers and everything like I think it gave them an idea that like you know we just we don't need to play 48 minutes like we can just play defense when the adrenaline is up and that's kind of who they've been this season right they kind of remind me a little bit more of the of the dame blazers teams oh really where often there would be like I feel like I'm not looking at like the their records in the second half of the season right now. But like, I remember Blazers team surging in the second half of the season, kind of going into the playoffs and being like, is this the year the Dame does this?

You usually get one or two really amazing day moments in the playoffs. But with that conference finals team accepted, most of the time, it's a first or second round out for the Portland. And then you're kind of like, well, can we just run it back? Now, they didn't ever really have, I think, a guy on those Blazers team, with the exception of maybe Nerkich, maybe, who's like, I deserve more than what I'm getting on this team, like the way Reddish was on the Hawks.

And I think even going into this season, like we said, it seemed like the Hawks were aware there was not enough ball for all the players who wanted it on this team. But I'm wondering whether this Hawks team is closer to like those kinds of Blazers teams that had like a hot couple months but aren't really built for sustainable success. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, that's an interesting point. I think, I think like they are, way more talented than those Blazers teams were. They just, they have a lot more going for them. And I actually think that this might not necessarily be the worst thing. Like, just getting into the Cam trade. Yeah, do you like this trade? I don't know, because it's so hard to know what Cam is going to be.

The way that he was playing defense in the start of the season, you know, trying to increase his role versus how he played in the last few games here. I don't really put too much into this season other than the fact that, like, we know that if he really wants to, like he can be a great defender. And he isn't necessarily like the most intuitive playmaker by any means. But he's like, I think he can be like a great three and D slasher type. And then you kind of go from there. I don't really know how that's going to look in New York. Like he's still going to have to like fight for for some touches there. But, you know, hey, it would be good to have like an actual two-way wing talent in New York. That would be,

that would be, that would be nice for them. I'm sure like Tibbs would, uh, tip, tips is probably like salivating right now thinking about what he can do with Cam, but it all kind of depends on Cam, right? I do think there's like an addition by subtraction thing that can happen for the Hawks. That's what I was going to ask. He had the worst plus minus on the team out of like, you know, the guys that actually play. And he also, I think he got almost too many touches, even though he thought he should be getting more. But when you look at the Hawks shot distribution, there's a lot of things that can be a lot better. Like, I think it starts at the top with Trey, right? Like, that's like, it's going to have to be the next evolution in his game where like, you know,

we get it. You can, and look, he's having an incredible season. He's having the best season of his career. And he's, I don't think he's like the reason they're losing or anything. But at the same time, like 34% usage up from 32% last season, when you know you're going to actually have more talent on the team. And they have had their injuries. But, you know, for a team that is trying to develop for a team that needs to distribute touches. It's also like you know who you're in the locker room with. You know that those guys need to feel the love. And as a point guard, that's your job.

And if you want to win a championship, like, I think, you know, how being, being open to the idea of, and I don't know who, like, you know, it's not like Tray runs the, like, he decides what the offense is. Like, there's a lot of configuration things that I think could just be better. Like, like John Collins and DeAndre Hunter have a lot of interior potential. and there isn't really a lot of room in the Hawks' offense, unless they actually get out of their offense and they start posting them up against mismatches

for them to operate in a way that still allows the rest of the offense to flow. And then, like, with Heter, I'm just like, well, after a guy has that playoff run last year, how are we coming in? And he had his injuries too early on, but how are we coming in? And he has the exact same usage as last year. And all these guys are in, like, the 11 to 12 point range. And Cam, other than the Williams and Trey, had the third highest usage. And that just doesn't make sense because it's like, this is the guy who played the least, who proved the least, who is the least efficient.

And, you know, as a team, you need more playmaking. You need to take the load off of Trey. So I don't know. I look at Kevin Heter and I'm like, why? And Bogdan, too. Like, the way the offense works, you kind of have to go out there and get it outside of Trey. and I think that just leaves a lot of room for like, for some of the more unselfish players to become too unselfish.

It becomes a personality buffet. It's like who actually thinks that they deserve to take these shots. Yeah. I mean, so there's like the addition by subtraction thing that the hawks have done. And maybe the hawks aren't done dealing. You know, for all I know,

things could be a little bit more significant over there in terms of like their concerns about the locker room makeup and stuff like that. Maybe they want to make another, there's another deal to be made there. Ben Simmons. I got to ask you. Have you been playing around the trade machine at all? I am like the most neutral person in the world about John Collins.

Like I kind of sometimes think his highlights are a little over-emphasized compared to the rest of his game. I often will find myself until he does like something spectacular, not really thinking about him being on the floor when I'm watching a Hawks game. What's your read on him? I've profiled him twice now. I feel like I have like a reasonable gauge on like the John Collins experience. And I bring him up because he would be the obvious make, make way for Ben Simmons if they were going to make that trade. It's hard to tell with John because it kind of goes back to the offense, right?

Like there are, you know, in his first two years, or this was his second year was with Lloyd Pierce. You know, Lloyd Pierce used to always say, you know, like John, you can get, he can get 20 and 10 without having a play run for him, right? And at first, I think that felt like a compliment. And then later on it was like, well, okay, but I'm still like, I can do some of these other things. So maybe. Would you guys please run a play for me every once in a while? Offensively, I think he has really good touch. I think he needs more reps to get more polished for sure.

Like he's just kind of, you know, I think there's times he gets lost. He became a much better playmaker last year. But, you know, his ball handling could still use work. I don't think he's ready for like showtime yet by any means. But like you don't get ready for showtime unless like somebody is helping you do that. And that's kind of like the nourishment is what is kind of missing, I think, in this Hawks season. for like all the other guys right now. I don't know what he really does for the Sixers.

Well, he can spread the floor. You know, he can definitely play the four alongside Embed. And I think that's like he can switch. That's like a good, he adds to, he adds to the defense. And also like, you know, the Sixers just need like, they need a body like John Collins, honestly, right? Like it's just like they just don't have like enough of like that stretch four type of. I'm personally underwhelmed by John Collins being the return on Ben Simmons.

I think you would need more. And I don't know what that would be. I don't know whether or not like Atlanta is like. and Ben Simmons solve so many of our problems or Trays, like, get these guys out of here. I'm tired of playing with X, Y, and Z player. For the Hawks, it's perfect. For the Hawks, yeah, for the Hawks, I think it would work. I would imagine it would be a little too poetic for Ben Simmons, given, like, the ghosts there.

But we would have to see. It kind of gets back to the Warriors thing we talked about earlier, where it could be nice for them to have a player who would be fine with just, like, distributing the ball and not wanting to shoot and defending and setting screens, right? Like that is actually kind of exactly what the doctor ordered there. Though sometimes I think that that's a little bit of revisionist history about Ben Simmons. It's like everybody kind of like writes about or talks about Ben Simmons in these trades. It was like, wouldn't it be great to just have a guy never needs the ball in his hands?

I was like, what's the point of Ben Simmons if he doesn't have the ball in his hand? Like my version of Ben Simmons is like this hyper creative playmaker. Like, you know, I understand like he's not like a smooth shooting like sniper. But like Ben Simmons, I wouldn't want to trade him to like Atlanta and be like, you stand on the baseline while Trey Young dribbles at the top of the key for 15 seconds. Now, I'd want him to be like the release valve. Like, that's why I make the Drayman comparison, right? Like when there's two on Trey, you know, then you can just kind of let Ben do his thing.

And that floor is so spread. I can't be Draymond for the Sixers? I know. I know. I know. We're talking a little bit about like, oh, the Hawks, what are they going to do to fix their team? And they have obviously gotten to the point where they probably feel like they need to do some

fixing. And I don't think Travis Schlingk gives this, these sort of like weirdly vulnerable press statements about like, maybe I overrated our core, you know, like those kinds of things. You rarely hear NBA GMs do. So when you watch the Grizz, who let's just kind of run it down right now,

so the Grizzlies are 30 and 14 as of recording. They're playing Dallas tonight on Friday. They've won 11 in a row. They've beaten the Warriors, nets, sons, and twice the Lakers. They've beaten the Lakers twice. Also, Adam Silver.

This is Chris Ryan. Flex the fucking Grizzlies into the national game, please. Like, please, just like, you guys are so forward-thinking most of the time. Get the nuggets and the Blazers off my screen. Like, get the Grizzlies on national TV. When you have a story, tell it. Like, how hard is this?

It's 2022. Can you just flex these guys in, please? Like, do you know what Jom Morant is doing on a nightly basis? Everybody in the country should be able to see this. This should not be a league pass team. Don't you know what I'm saying? I'm with you. I don't understand sometimes we're just like, well, we got, you know, like,

like nine months ago we agreed to put the blazers on on this Wednesday. I'm just like, why? Have we talked about the logistics of this before? A little bit. I know that Jeff Van Gundy needs to be in a certain place at a certain time for it to be like this, this production or whatever. But sometimes I'm just like, you guys can see what's happening, right? Like, this is important. I almost wonder if ESPN should just like embrace the idea of doing like, I mean, I don't know, like, what is it that the NFL does? Well, they have Red Zone. Right. Right. You can just basically watch every game in its most crucial parts at once and there's this robot guy who's like never goes to the bathroom and is just like oh my god they're on the 20 but yeah I would love that there was a red zone

for NBA I would love just also if like hey teams won five games in a row their next game's going to be on on national television like there are just certain like triggers that happen that like we should start paying attention to this we should be paying attention to the grizzlies john morant had I think probably the play of the year against the lakers with his block because not only is it like one of the great greatest athletic highlights I've ever seen in my life, but it's got narrative. Like this young team does not bow down to LeBron. You know, like they ran the Lakers off the court.

And that is, that's really important. So like you've got this special thing. You've got this core of Morant, Bain, uh, Jaron Jackson Jr. Dylan Brooks is still coming back. They seem to get contributions every from everywhere on the floor. And so now we're getting into late January, early February. and if it's me and I'm running the Grizzlies, I'm not doing anything for Buddy Heald or Eric Gordon.

Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not messing with anything to bring in a role player. Is there a world in which you think that the Grizzlies, though, should push their chips in to some extent and try to go for something bigger than that? Not this year. Not this year. First of all, it's just like, you know, there's like a team like this. Like, there's a good vibe thing that you don't really want to mess with.

Like, did you watch them last night again? the wolves? I did. First of all, like, what, what a fun game. Just what a fun game. The Grizzlies are having an absolute blast right now. I mean, like, like, like, like, John Conchart is having his moment. Like, what the hell? Like, yeah, like, like, and, and his teammates love it. They're all crowding each other. Like, you've got like the Grit and Grind 2.0 vibe. Like, the fan base is elated because, like, this, this, this team, like, represents the city once again, right? Like, and they have, they have these lovable, like, if you, if, if they're on your team. You. team, like you have these lovable, scrappy players like Dylan Brooks and stuff that have just,

you know, and they're, like, they've got the second round picks, they've got some undrafted guys, like they have a lot of really good stories that have converged now. And it's, to me, it's like, you don't want to take away the juju of that, but you also don't want to overestimate what a young team is able to do in like, this is now going to be their second playoff run, right um like even if they were to put all of their chips in this season and i'm i'm a huge grizzly supporter like i i love this core i don't know that this is the season where you know jaron jackson puts everything together he's put a lot together right he actually reminds me a little bit more of the season that like aiton was having last year um and he he ended up being way better into playoffs

and i think anybody really expected him to but you know jaren's like he's now kind of He has consistently been the player that the Grizzlies would have hoped for after, you know, dealing with the meniscus tear last year, which they were, again, super patient with. They certainly were, yeah. And, you know, he was really rusting the playoffs. He didn't play in the fourth quarter against the Warriors. You know, Gobert definitely got the best of him. And those are like kind of the taste that he needs to get. But you look at this season, it's like, man, he looks a little bit bigger.

And he also, man, like you see him play. playing against like the Lakers, he looked like he could, and he did hold his own against Anthony Davis and in some cases overpower him too, which is just even for the guys that can defend Anthony Davis in this league, like you don't really necessarily look at them beside him and think like, oh, they'll be fine, right?

But with Jaron, you kind of do. Like he has long enough, he has a long enough stride. He has an actual three-pointer. Like he's obviously like he is the perfect sort of modern big, But, like, this stuff takes time for big players, right? He's got definitely unicorn juice, whatever, like, he's got that magic fairy dust on him. For sure. And it's awesome that they have him because, like, man, like, you suddenly, like, now you need bigs in the West, right? Like, it's, it's Yokic, it's AD, it's, it's Gobert.

Like, even Draymond Green, right? Like, you're going to have to, like, eat. Right. Yeah. Because it's, like, that's, that's fine. Nobody wants to, like, get defended by Stephen Adams. No, and they just, and they crush everyone on the boards, too, right? So, but, but that's, that's a.

player where it's like I'm not necessarily looking at him and being like I expect you to be an NBA finals big men by the time of you know like unless they get like an amazing trade trade back I just don't really see the point same with Dylan Brooks too right like he's he's been injured this season he's having a career season in points and I think he's gotten incrementally better scoring and defending and stuff but there's a lot of questions with him like there's the mercurial nature like can he stay out of foul trouble can he stop like you know getting into getting into it with the reps. Like, I think the game gets in his head sometimes, like in the playoffs, like he definitely got to take advantage of by guys like Mitchell. And I think, like,

a guy like Steph Curry in a seven game series, as good as the Grizzlies look right now, like, a guy like Steph Curry will probably figure a guy like Dylan Brooks out this season, right? Right. But you know what, though? Like, that's fine. That's part of this, right? Like, ride the wave of it and try not to do the thing that I guess Atlanta did where they came into this season, hoping to build off of what they did last season. But that's a tough part, too, because that is entirely up to the players. Well, it's the flip side of what's happening to Atlanta this season, because if Atlanta was in sixth, I think they would be like, we're fine. We're in good shape. We like, we're at. If the grizzlies were in sixth, they would be like, how cute. But the

grizzlies are in third. The grizzlies have won 30 frigging games, and the grizzlies look like they have, like, a top five MVP candidate playing for them. And they, like, how all of these draft assets that if you find somebody who's just like, fuck it, I'm having a fire sale, like, could you snag somebody? Could you steal somebody who might be able to, now, there is no Chris Paul out there. Like, there is no guy who will take your team and make it into a playoff monster. Is there anyone out there that you think, like, you put this guy on the Grizzlies and I don't, what happens now? I don't see the right guy for them right now. It's not Beale. It's not Ingram. Like, you don't see anybody like that.

It could be Beal. Ingram, I like because he's on their timeline. So I think any time that you trade for him, that's fine. But I think if you're going to go for a vet, then I think you got to kind of wait it out a little while. Because then you're saying, like, we're putting the chips in, right? With Ingram, you're not necessarily saying, hey, we're going to contend for a championship right now. But he is kind of like the perfect wing to play alongside of Jaw, right? So I would do an Ingram deal, but I think you have to wait for that still, right?

Like I think there's there's a Zion thing of, I don't know, like, is he going to play this season? Is he is aware who? Like, I don't know. Like Zion is just like a big question mark around everything, right? So I think for an Ingram deal, I don't know that it necessarily happens right away. But for any of like, you know, like Dame plays the same position is because they have, they do, like they have those three first round picks, right? So they are really well positioned for a situation.

in which, you know, a team has a really talented superstar or a star, and they need to offload him and go into a rebuild, right? Like, they have, they're kind of in the opposite position as, like, what has made the Sixers trade so hard is that you need to find a player on a contender or who can, you know, win a championship and get Ben Simmons there. But why would that team, like, would give up? Why would they, why would they be like, what we need to do is trade our best player for a guy who has not played since he collapsed in the playoffs.

Yeah. Right? Like, it's tough. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I'm with you. I think that like I started this whole thing by being like, you know, sometimes expectations can get the better of you.

We've obviously seen that happens with the Hawks. I think that the gris should like ride out. I would have to imagine they're like they can't just win 55 games a season. And I don't think like maybe they will. but like there will be some regression probably somewhere although it's not like they're beating a cotton candy line like opposing schedule right now like they're having they're beating like the best teams out there yeah i don't know when you said verand is like iverson i was like should they do an oh one trade like where they bring the mutombo guy in like should they do an oh one sixers

trade where they get like another piece in and that's what made me start thinking of ingram that's what made me start thinking of other guys out there but who knows like who's doing who's doing Memphis any favors. But I don't know, these are the two most interesting teams to me right now, just because of like the way in which their, their sort of fate seemed to be crossing. You make a good point on like, hey, how many games are they going to win? Because a lot of these conversations kind of come down to the point in the year that you were having your run, right? Like, they started the season off pretty sloppy. And then they won it, they won a bunch of games without Jha. And I think that made people question some things. And now Jaws back and he's

incredible and he's probably going to get some MVP votes and all that stuff. And the conversation once again has completely shifted, but look at how many times in the span of the first half of the season that we've had like a million questions about the Grizzlies. And you can extrapolate that back to the Hawks of last season. And if you keep watching them now, like, you know, for a young team that tends to get going when they're doubted and when they need the adrenaline, like 16 and 27, I think 17 and 23 or whatever they are right now. And, you know, like a trade and it looks like the world's colliding might actually be exactly what the doctor ordered in terms of like, you know, just getting them to lower their hips a little bit more on defense. But it's just, so I don't know, like these things happen, but it's, I'm just really excited to see where, honestly, both teams go from here. Like, I'm not necessarily that low on the Hawks quite yet. I think they have, they have a lot of moves from here.

We should revisit this question. We're not going to be able to answer. can you win anything with kids right now? But we should revisit the Hawks and the Grizzlies at the end of the regular season. That's a good. We'll see where they happen. So, Siri, thanks so much for joining me.

It's been the answer. We were produced by Chris Sutton. We'll be back next Friday. And I hope everybody has a great weekend.