The Ringer NBA Show - How Far Can the Spurs Go This Season? Plus, the Mighty Trail Blazers, Ja Morant’s Future, and More | Group Chat

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

Justin and Rob are here to give their thoughts on the San Antonio Spurs' encouraging start to the season. Then, on the opposite end of the spectrum, they discuss the Pelicans' abysmal start to the season. Then J. Kyle Mann joins the show, and they talk about Ja Morant's on-court and postgame behavior that led to his one-game suspension. They talk about what his future and the Grizzlies' future look like. Then they wrap up with Justin’s favorite topic, the Portland Trail Blazers! Intro (0:00:00) FanDuel ad break (1:13) Spurs (2:44) Pelicans (18:57) FanDuel ad break (28:09) Ja Morant (29:44) Trail Blazers (1:05:12) Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and J. Kyle Mann Producers: Ben Cruz, Isaiah Blakely, and Victoria Valencia The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me, Rob Mahoney. Rob, thanks for joining us on this nighttime recording. I know you were up late shooting your gun off in celebration of the Dodgers win last night. More of a flare guy personally. You know, I really want to make a statement. I just want to bring the people together

and a simple gunshot's not going to get it done. Do you feel the energy just coursing through Los Angeles right now? For my Dodgers? Yeah, that's right, buddy. Of course I do. Look, you simply cannot go. to any place in the city with not like us playing right now, which is more or less LA as usual,

but especially LA right now. Yeah, I have found that the Dodgers are the one thing that everyone kind of rallies around because unlike in basketball, for instance, where there are some people that are trying to go off script and be a Clippers fan,

like nobody ever wants to be an Angels fan. So that's like really the team of LA. And so your team now. It is my team. I'm happy to adopt them. I'm happy to announce that ever since I moved to town, they do nothing but win. congratulations to them and congratulations to me by extension.

You're listening to The Ringer NBA show presented by Fandul. Fandul now displays your bet directly on your phone's lock screen. And with the latest updates to the live events and player pages, it's never been easier to be part of the game. And Missouri, get excited because Fandul's coming your way December 1st. Download the Fandle Sportsbook app now and play your game. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus in present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem.

Call 1 800 gambler or visit RG dash help.com. Call 18878-889-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Kyle Mann could not join us for the first half of this podcast. Unfortunately, fell into some pots or something. There was an elaborate story involving a feral cat.

I'm not exaggerating an actual story involving a feral cat. We'll have to get the full update from Kyle next time. Yeah, there was a, every anecdote from Kyle seems to be like some chapter in a Southern Gothic novel or novella even. He's living the William Faulkner lifestyle. There is no doubt about it. So we're not exactly sure what's happening, but he's not here for this part. He'll join us to talk about John Morant and the mighty four and two, Orland Trillow Placers. Let's go. We're finally talking about him. Are you proud of yourself? No, never.

I think a little shame is good for all of us, even if it means we're going to delve into your hometown team, but let's call it out as we see it. That's right. Well, speaking of shame, let's talk about the San Antonio Spurs, who we were doing this pod after the game on Sunday night, hoping to vet them,

you know, like celebrate their 6-0 start to the season, one of only, what, two teams at this point that would have been undefeated, unfortunately. They got absolutely blitzed by the Phoenix Suns, one of the worst teams in the league. It's a nice.

But I felt like it was a lot of good information because for me, this is a real reality check because we'd probably gotten over our skis thinking about Wemby was MVP. Maybe this team could really compete this season as opposed to being the level up year. This felt like more of a come-to-earth moment. It was a come-to-earth moment.

I just think it was we're seeing teams like the Suns take the spurs seriously for the first time in years. Wemby is not catching anyone by surprise at this point. this was the most bothered. I think we've seen him in any game this season. The doubles really seemed to get to him. The timing of the way the sons were guarding him, I thought was really impactful. But more than that, it was also the sons giving us a demonstration of how to attack the best defense in basketball right now.

Yeah, well, on the flip side, also perhaps to neutralize Wembe, he didn't have a particular good shooting game. But we've been talking about this on and off practically since game one for Wemby, maybe even in the preseason. Like, how do you guard this guy if he's going to make all his goddamn shots? We've seen center fail. We've seen Bam had a bio, despite noting that he wasn't intimidated by how tall Wembe is, that only the media care about that sort of thing, kind of get worked by him in that heat game. This time- To be fair, Bam, also worked in that game.

It was a mutual working. Bam, I forgot. Did he go to overseas or something? Because he's getting up more than he used to. There's no more push shots. He's just dunking over, guys. Oh, yeah. But we saw a lot of those bulky big wings being put on Wemby,

plus a crowd. And when you don't have the release valves that they had in this game, we should mention Dylan Harper went out. And it just seemed like the offense overall

just wasn't given much in support of Wembe. That felt like something or close enough to a recipe as long as the shots aren't falling for Victor. Yeah, I think not just if I did

the big wings were having some success crowding him, but even guys like Devin Booker, I thought, did a really good job picking him up in spots being the first defender

before the double gets there to kind of hold it down. and gradually kind of push him off his spots or chase him into a corner. That stuff is a huge deal. The fact that those kinds of coverages can work against Wemby right now. Because you would think he could turn and pass over the top of some of these guys, but he's panicking. He can be sped up.

He can be pushed off his spot. Like he may look like an unstoppable force on some nights, but he is but a mere player, Justin. He is a young man in the basketball world trying to find his way through these defenses and how to navigate them. And especially with where San Antonio is, like this is a lot of young guys. who are figuring out their spacing together,

who are figuring out how to play out of those double teams. Like some of them have experience doing it from last season. Some of them don't, but it's like that learning experience together. This isn't a playoff game, but it was a very tailored level of attention from Jordan Aud and his staff who I think just did like a great job laying out the blueprint for where the spurs are right now.

Yeah, and the sons didn't even have Dylan Brooks in this game, who has in the past pestered Wembe a little bit, but they do have the one thing they've had in the wake of the fallen, title contender that never was, a lot of these just three and D wings that have some girth to them and they were really sending help

at the exact right time. And for Wembe, this, as you mentioned, learning experience, because the next high level thing for him is not only dealing with the double team, but dealing with it off the dribble and trying to playmate for others, which seemed really difficult

for him in this one. The other thing that jumped out to me was on the flip side of things, Devin Booker and the sons in the Devin Booker era have done such a good job pissing people off. Devin Booker in particular gets under Superstar's skin and I think the team around him fall suit. And this one, Stefan Castle fell prey to that. And it was a nice reminder that this is overall an extremely young team that can get lured into those sorts of pissing contests. Because there's a point where Castle had like, well, like three fouls in 12 seconds.

It just felt like, and then there was that shoving match that led to the technicals, not only with Castle, but also Ms. Johnson. Just like, it was a real like young team stuff that you don't want to see from your super sharp title contender, which is where we thought they might be going, but we might have to ease off on that way. Completely. And it's a reminder that this stuff isn't mutually exclusive. Like, Stefan Castle can be a fucking gamer and be about all the right things as a basketball player, but also still be exactly his age and be vulnerable to those kinds of head games and those sorts of moments. Like, Devin Booker is a tough opponent for anyone to play against just as a basketball prospect, right? How do you stop this guy? How do you deal with all his counters?

How do you keep him under wraps? Incredibly challenging for anyone. The fact that he's also talking copious amounts of shit throughout the game, the fact that the sons are stunting on you, a team that I'm sure the Spurs expected to beat has to be frustrating. It's going to get under all these guys' skins from time to time. And they're going to need to find kind of where their emotional center is, right? Like Wemby is a really, like, fascinating player to chart the course and the future of a franchise around. But who is the player who's going to kind of center them in these moments? They don't really have a lot of those voices right now.

It's more like the Harrison Barnes types who are taking guys under their wing and trying to calm them down. But they're going to have to grow up together. And they're going to have to go up pretty fast. Yeah, that's where you could almost want the picture and picture of Deer and Fox at home watching this game, where I wonder if he was saying, like, that's right. This is my time again. Because I have to imagine he was getting a little worried watching not only the team succeed without him, but also Dylan Harper just vault into the hearts of every fan watching him. Unfortunately, we should mention. So Harper went out in this game with what seemed like a caffantry.

We don't know what's going on at the time we're recording this at around 8 p.m. Pacific on Sunday night. But he has just been filthy to start the season. Just the footwork is absolutely disgusting. It's like it's so fun to watch it. Jim. One of the slinkiest drivers in the league right now. I don't, again, for guys who come in with his kind of burst speed, you expect, oh, he's going to be able to get the shoulder on guys, kind of turn the corner, get all the way to the rim. But he just kind of like navigates through traffic in a way that no one else is really doing

right now. Like his footwork on drives is so exceptional for a player his age. And the fact that they're going to potentially lose that is a huge thing. Like, you know, we'll see how long it takes for Fox to get back. We'll see how long Harper could be on the shelf. um, Stefan Castle isn't really operating in that way. Like they're, they're radically different players in terms of the lines in which they attack. And so losing Harper,

even though he's coming off the bench, even though he's not technically the team's starting point guard yet, uh, is a huge deal. And we'll have to see how they kind of compensate for that. Yeah. So I would have loved to see how Harper would have been able to fill the void had he been out there.

Just he seemed like he was on his way there. Uh, but this is the moment where I think Fox would factor in, where nothing. is really working. Everything's a little bit more gummed up. Can his straight line drives? Can his pure speed? Can his aggression just break whatever is throwing out there? Because that is such a nice counterbalance to everything that's going on. Not just like the beautiful, balletic, whatever the fuck Victor is, but also like the herky jerkiness to both Harper and what Castle brings. It would be

nice to just have some raw visceral punch you in the mouth sort of approach when you need it. And that's what Foxes. I mean, it's the same conversation we have around every team that has like a clear superstar and a question mark at number two, right? This was the J-dub conversation for so long. It was like, can he elevate into that sort of role to be an actual pressure release for Shea? Ask an answer.

Did it to great effect through a run for the championship. Not having Fox out there means that that's much more of a job by committee right now. And it's a job that Harper has done well in in moments. The castle has done well in, like especially turning defense into offense. Like all of these guys, Devin Vassell, we should. should say, who's kind of like quietly the secret sauce of what the spurs do offensively in a lot of ways, like very, very essential because of his ability to be a three level guy. You know, he's had huge moments in that capacity, but none of those guys are Deerrin Fox.

None of them have kind of the stop and go like efficacy, like how easy it feels for Deeran Fox to get to his stuff in midrange is something that no other spur has right now. And so you're right. Like they need the break glass in case of emergency secondary score and they need the guy. who's going to keep his wits about him, you know, former clutch player of the year, Deeran Fox, not that this game was going into the clutch at any point,

but just like when things are really going to shit, who are the scores you can count on to, get to their stuff calmly, you know, in a very quick fashion without having a lot of set up. That's Deeran Fox's game. Yeah. It's nice to see Vassell start to actually bring it

because he'd been kind of in this weird in-between zone where he looked like he was going to be such an integral part of the success of this team. They were giving him on ball wraps to really develop that in. ultimately seems like a wrinkle to what he does, but he's probably best served in a three and D roll. But they need those sort of guys because they are very guard heavy.

If it's Fox, Harper, Castle, and even Vassell's probably more of a two than he is a three. You're lacking a lot of size out there. And in particular, not having Luke Cornet, unfortunately, has been a pretty big issue because we got a lot of Bionbo minutes this night since he's been out. And unfortunately, that ain't going to work to the point where they just ditched the center position

altogether went a little bit small with that second unit. Cornette was awesome in that first game and not only getting to see him spell Wemby, because the non-Wemby minutes have already become a thing, which is inevitable, I guess, for every superstar in the league.

But to see him play alongside him, what would the Sons, a team that was relying more on the Osso Agadaros and Mark Williams, but sometimes they're going a little smaller center too. What would they do against a front line with those two guys up? I think it would be a really tough look for them to counter,

especially like the big to big passing between them. Then you're playing even more over the top of these smaller defenders who are trying to rush everybody. I think Lou Cornett's a really important part of this Spurs team. Obviously, the non-Wemby minutes as you talked about are key, but especially defensively, right? They just like cannot hold it down with Harrison Barnes at the five. It's just not a realistic thing for the Spurs to manage over any longer term.

So they're trying to get through it until Cornyette can get back. But the reality is like right now when Wemby is on the floor, they are astoundingly good on defense, right? Like we're getting into like really special territory in terms of the way they lock teams down. With Luke Quernett on the floor, even in that limited sample, they were pretty fucking awesome defensively,

even still. And so if that is the drop of just going from, you know, all time exceptional levels of defense to very good, reliable starter quality defense from your backup five, it changes so much of the Spurs kind of day-to-day life, right? It's relieving pressure on everyone around them

in totally different ways. So the good thing for the Spurs is, I think they've announced themselves this year. It's not being more, like, play and fodder, they're actually going to compete for something on a much higher level. And to that point, I know we're not even two weeks into the season,

so this is all silly to begin with. But, like, as we're looking at the landscape, starting to develop, because I do think we learn a lot about how things will go from the very early on sort of matchups. I would say, like, obviously, the Thunder in a league to themselves. And Luca puts up 40 or 50 every night

he's available when he does in Austin Rears would. You know, and then there's a lot of kind of teams in the mix. The rockets, I imagine, will float to the top here. But, you know, Denver Nuggets have stuff to figure out. Clippers, who knows if they're going to show up on a given night? Like, the spurs seem very much, dare I say, in the mix for the top six. I appreciate your restrained and not mentioning the four and two Portland Trailblazers. I thought it was coming.

I would have bet my life on it. I didn't mention the wars. To be honest, I probably should have, even though they got kind of worked. the other night. Not only got worked, but the vibes there are kind of weird. Like, just what you were seeing out of Stefan Dremont was so weird. This is, we're already at a very strange part in the season, Justin. We're going to talk about John Morant a little later and what's going on in Memphis.

The vibes in Minnesota are very strange right now. The vibes in Golden State are awfully weird right now. There's just so many Western Conference teams that we expected to be good and competent that are really are finding themselves, that are having to do their soul searching pretty early in the year. And that in itself is an opportunity for the spurs, right? like this is a humbling for sure, but it's not the kind that's going to make the front office,

like go back to their war room and be like, oh my God, we have to trade Victor Weapon Yama immediately because he called out our coach in a post-game press conference. It's just like, oh, what do we have to do tactically to make this make sense?

Or what are we learning about the missing pieces of our roster that we're going to be able to go out and find in the future once things really settle down? But for now, they're just really good for the most part. They did lose this game in quite notable fashion, and the sons deserve all due credit for that. But they have enough missing pieces coming back that I think there's plenty of reason to think that the defense will be even better than it's been, which has already been quite good.

And that the offense is going to get, like some of the holes in the offense are going to get plugged up by Fox coming back in particular. Yep. Schedule gets a little bit harder. So they got the Lakers coming up and then the Rock gets back to back. And so that's where we'll probably find out just how far this can go. Yeah. But we're like what we're seeing this far. Like I'm starting to think like should I just go to the playground and start wearing a t-shirt under my jersey in honor of Dylan Harper and Stefan Castle?

Is it cool? Are you think it's going to be cool again? I think it's cool because I heard people complaining about this because David Stern in that era, he would have just made sure that would never happen. Anyone doing anything but wearing the proper jersey and the proper accessories. I was sending people to Guantanamo Bay

for like wearing any shoe that was not your uniform color. So like we need to chill on the David Stern worship a little bit. I understand Adam Silver leaves a lot of people wanting. That's okay. David Stern is a different animal. was a different animal, I should say. We got the NBA Cup. We got a new All-Star game every year,

and we got some T-shirts back in the game, baby. But it's such like an oddball thing because you always notice the guy who's not just wearing like the athletic, like clingy material shirt, but the full-on just regular ass Haynes, like beefy T-shirt under his jersey. Like that guy always sticks out in college

and everyone always talks about it. And now we finally got some beefy teas with our guy Dylan Harper. He's a throwback. I guess he has a throwback. I guess that's a good thing. I got to say, this is not something that has moved me

in any particular direction. I am simply won over and enamored with watching Dylan Harper literally move anywhere on a basketball court. So I hope we get to do that again very soon. Just briefly, because you mentioned the bad vibes

with the Warriors. You know who sucks to see live? Who's that? Dremont Green. He fucking is so annoying. He's just always bitching about someone or something. and yelling at the closest foreign player that he can find.

I can't imagine Steph Curry, the amount of therapy he's had to undergo just to tolerate this motherfucker for so many years. It's just like he's a tough watch because he's always like trying to almost fight someone. It's like, dude, like calm down. Like I think he really, I mean, this is the case for him for the past couple years at this point,

but like a couple years? His entire career at this point. point, but it's just like, it must be so daunting for the people that have to wrangle him to do so. I mean, he just does it for the love of the game. And by the love of the game, I don't mean basketball, but like that game within the game is what gets him up in the morning. In the same way, frankly, that it does Dylan Brooks, that it does even guys like Devin Booker. It's like they want not only the war between the lines.

Like, they want the war of the mind. You know, they really want to just be engaging on all fronts at all times. That's me. Just playing the psychological warfare. I didn't want to say it. But I'm glad you called it out yourself. Yeah, Jemond sucks. And you know who else sucks?

Who's that? The New Orleans Pelicans. Oh, you don't say. Because they are now 0 and 6 dropping yet another game to the Thunder today. The Thunder or the Thunder. I mean, I didn't expect them to win that game, but they didn't have Chet. They didn't have J-Dub. And they were not in this game at all.

They lost by 31 points. They did. That is the third loss of 30 or more this season. So that's literally half their games. Not only half their games, Justin, half of the 30 point losses in the entire NBA this season. Oh, God. Belong to the New Orleans Pelicans.

So they just have some of the ugliest losses out there. I would like to run down for you. Just a quick list of some things that are going on with this team right now. We talked about the bad vibes going around the West. How about this for the New Orleans Pelicans? I think they're the worst shooting team in basketball. terrible from three. They're shooting 21% from midrange right now.

21%. Their playmaking is non-existent. They cannot guard literally anybody. Willie Green does not seem to trust a single one of their centers to the point that they signed and he started DeAndre Jordan in a real-life NBA game. Zion looks like he would rather be anywhere else

than participating with this team at this time. Jordan Poole is engaging in every minute as an active revolt. against his team. What is happening? I mean, I think this is New Orleans Pelicans basketball, baby. Unfortunately. What is happening.

Well, the good thing is, you know, if things don't go well this year, they have something to look forward to in the draft with a precious top lottery draft pick. Actually, they have two precious lottery draft picks because they have the Indianapolis Pacers, or excuse me, Indiana Pacers draft pick this year. Oh, wait, they don't have either of those because they traded both of those away. If their GM was literally no one, if they just replaced them with like a cat, and the cat just didn't know how to work the phone

and the entire off season was a camera watching the cat try to dial like the number for the Portland Trailblazers or something, they would have done better than what Joe Dumars has done this far. There was a live stream. I'm so glad you brought this up. If somebody had connected vintage, like, old school Game Boy Pokemon to their fish tank.

and the fish by the way of its movement would enter a random entry into like the the control pad of the game eventually the fish beat the game uh i think the fish playing Pokemon is wildly more successful than the cat who would be running the pelicans the actual management of the pelicans right now like it is just an outright disaster in every possible respect and the fact that they already mortgage that future like i don't even want to say Derek queen's name it's not his fault. He was just in the draft and these guys decided to just like sell the whole farm

when they knew, they had to have known on some level that this was not going to be the easiest operation to manage. Does Willie Green know Derek Queen's name? Because he played him seven minutes total in a blowout in this game against the Thunder. I just, I don't get it. You could

say like, oh, you know, we don't want to give minutes to the young guys because then they'll just exacerbate the the level of competition. Like they'll just make things worse because they don't know what's going on out there. Well, that wasn't an issue. So why isn't the draft pick that you use both of those picks for? Because remember, just for the listeners,

the Pacers pick that they gave back before Halliburton's injury, that is what they then used, I believe it was 23rd in the draft, to move up in order to get queen. So it really was the Pacers pick plus the pick going to Atlanta next year in order to get queen. So I just don't understand it. I have to imagine that Willie Green's days are numbered at this point. It's maybe as you're listening to this right now on Monday morning,

he's already gone. James Brago had some success in Charlotte speaking Lamello's language in a way that perhaps other coaches have not been able to. I don't think it fucking matters because this roster is atrocious and the ownership is the worst, perhaps in sports because the same thing is going on with the Saints right now. You know it's bad when you're blundering across sporting lines, when you're dabbling in multiple leagues and failing on all fronts.

But I'm with you that Willie Green inevitably is on a hot seat right now. Just because there are only so many things you can shake up and change in these sorts of situations and the coach is usually one of the first to go. It's not his fault, really? Like he does some odd things from time to time. Their rotation choices, including with the Derek Queen stuff today. as you said, it's like, oh, that's a little funny. I don't really understand why these players are playing together

or why this is the approach with this particular group. Kind of normal coaching, second-guessing stuff as far as I'm concerned, I think by and large, he's been fine, you know, not a fireable offense as far as the things Willie Green has done. But when you coach a team that is this bad, you almost always get fired. It's just kind of a matter of course. It's a matter of time. And unless he does something dramatic to save his job,

that's kind of what the burden of proof becomes is like, can you bail yourself out of this thing fast enough to keep in that position? And I just don't see anything with this roster that would suggest they're in a position to do that. Yeah, the problem was more process as it typically is with this organization where it's like Green stayed when a new regime came in in the front office. And their reporting suggests partly because of Green's relationship with Gail Benson, who's the owner. And so if you're friends with Ms. Gail, you can get very far as we've seen with the top level executives. both of the franchises that she's the steward of,

and yet just doesn't have much say because she allows those guys to do so much on their own, despite some of the blunders that have happened over and over again. So Green probably wasn't supposed to be here in the first place, and it doesn't seem like he will be going forward. One of the guys that is going to be here for a while, though, is Jeremiah Fears, who, in the midst of all this, playing with some real juice.

Absolutely. If you're looking for silver linings, like, that's one of them. As advertised, right? Like, this is what he was brought here to be and do, and I hope he continues to get an opportunity to do that. Like, they're moving him into the starting lineup was kind of a no-brainer if they're going to be this bad. And it really should be with Derek Queen as well. They need to lean into these guys as much as they can while also trying to facilitate the development of, you know,

the veterans who could conceivably be a part of this team for a longer term. The Tray Murphy stuff has been so funky this year because on the one hand, you watch him operate. And Tray Murphy's a player we like, we have a lot of respect for, has really been really come on strong over the last couple seasons. And this year, it feels like he's trying to do a lot. It feels like he's really kind of pushing on the edges in a way that isn't always constructive, really isn't always productive. And at the same time, it's like, what do you want him to do? Like, just sit back and watch the ship sink around him and do absolutely nothing in the process. Like, teams that are in this position encourage even kind of the best soldiers to step outside themselves and do things that are like

a little bit too much or a little bit outside their comfort zone just out of pure desperation. And I hope we don't get to that point with Tray Murphy, where it feels like all this development starts spiraling off in weird directions just because the Pelicans are in such an awful state. Real Breaking Bad, what did you expect me to roll over and die energy from Tray Murphy as everything else goes up in flames? I hope it's that. I hope it maybe like the coaching adjustment can bring some semblance of,

of a direction for the good players they're there, if only to like perhaps give them auditions for other teams. I think every team in the league could, use a Trey Murphy. I think most of us watching from a far want to see him get to one of those teams because he's such a high level player. I know a couple of executives have mentioned like that's the guy. Like in terms of like the 3 and D guy that could slot into whatever you have going on, it's Trey Murphy is at or near the top of the list there. But instead right now they're 06, one of two 06 teams and the other one practically plays in like two waves of rookies every game

and that's the Brooklyn net. So the Pelicans. unfortunately are trying to win and they do not have a win as we record this podcast. Not only do they not have a win, Justin. So like right now they're being outscored by 18 points a game, point differential, negative 18. It is the most lopsided point differential for any team in the league right now, meaning like the Pelicans are better at being bad than the best teams are at being good. That is where they find themselves, six games into the season.

So grand opening, grand closing for this season of New Orleans Pelicans basketball, I wish everyone involved well and mental health. And I hope they all just can find some kind of inner peace with all this. We all have our one thing. The Pelicans is just being catastrophically bad. You know what? We have never been punished for our mantra of never trust the Pelicans, but never so much as right now.

That's unfortunately true. All right. Why don't we take a quick break? And when we come back, we'll talk John Moran and the Blazers with Kyle Mann. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fandul. Get in on the NBA action at any time with live betting on Fandle. From the first whistle until the final buzzer, Fandle is your home for live betting.

So I'm looking at the awards odds here, and I'm looking at Most Improved player. We have a couple of games worth of data on the docket. And so I think Denny Avdia plus $1,200 for Most Improved, seems pretty good to me, especially because he's been playing really well. I picked him for Most Improved player going into the season. just because I thought like even though he had that leap last year, I think he would do it in a much more public way this year,

and it seems like that's kind of bearing out. I still think that the public at large, because he's doing this in a much showier way, Blazers are playing much better. I think they'll be looking to reward someone. So give me Denny Avdi a plus 1,200 for most improved. You should put that one in with Fandall, because Fandle is giving new customers $150 in bonus bets

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See terms at sportsbook.Fandle.com. Gambling problem. Call 1800 gambler or visit RG dash help.com. Call 1-888-7. 8-89-7-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. And now for a more uplifting tale, let's talk about John Moran in the Memphis Crisleys, who find themselves just a few weeks into the season

already dealing with more Morant mess. He got suspended for one game on Sunday because of what happened in the previous game where he basically quiet quit, as Chris Harrington put it, where he coasted through a game. Something happened at halftime because he basically just slept block through the rest of that game. And then afterward, the reporters talked to him.

He was very terse in his comments about go talking to the coaching staff, et cetera, et cetera. Rob, not what you want to see for what was supposed to be a turning of the page for the Grizzlies? Yeah, you don't think? That's not what they were looking for from him? I don't think so, no. I have to say, if you only caught John Moran's second half exploits on social media, like if you just saw some of the clips that were floating around,

I have to say, they do not do them, his performance justice whatsoever. Like, it really is a unique thing to see an alleged star level player float for an entire half and not once, like, break the three-point line, not once take an active step on defense in literally any potential direction.

I think, like, the volume of it felt overwhelming in that moment to the point where it just feels so passive-aggressive. It felt so pointed. And clearly, yeah, all the stuff kind of crested post-game where Thomas Isolo apparently reportedly called out Jha in front of the team challenged his effort and lack of leadership. I have a hard time saying that he was wrong given everything that we just

pointed out and everything that we saw in that game against the Lakers. It was straight up embarrassing for a player of his caliber. Yeah, running three point line to three point line. You know, I've been known to do that, but I'm also more or less washed. Yeah, I mean, we were kind of talking about what it could have been. I was doing a little detective work to see like what would have led them to that point because it is pretty wild when you look at the box score and we're talking about a guy who's played like what, 65 games in the past three years. So I'm sure there's a little bit he's got, I know this would seem irrelevant, but in the cultural sense, he's kind of getting back into the flow of he's got the most popular shoe. He's like, I'm trying to get back to being the

guy at the center of the culture and the center of the highlight culture and sort of just write the ship a little bit, get his career back on track. And he has a great game, you know, the game before, I'm blanking on who he hung 20 on the, on the suns, right? And yeah, yeah. And, and, and you can, I could, I'm just trying to, this is, I was telling you all, this is me tin foil hat kind of thing here. I'm like, what, what might it have been? And I was like, yeah, I watched his turnovers in particular, and I was trying to watch Isolos. Is it Isalo? I'll make sure I'll say, I say it correctly, because that's what we do. Rob. What is it?

What is the parodies of ourselves at this point? He's a low. No, definitely not Italian. That is not the one. You become a jackass at some point. Shocker there. No, I was watching his turnovers. And, you know, Phoenix was trapping him whenever there was a screen out, like out to the hash mark.

They were trying to get rid of him to get rid of the ball because Memphis doesn't have another ball. I mean, at least they could get, you know, pipping back. It would help. but he had bad body language after some of those turnovers. I mean, just like slump, just quit, you know, shrugged his shoulders. They ran back the other way and scored a couple of times. And I was trying to watch Yselo to see what his reaction was to it. And it was just kind of hands-on hips.

There wasn't any kind of demonstrative thing. But it made me just wonder what my, because in my mind, I'm like, he has this performance, pretty efficient performance. But there's that. And that, you know, that kind of reaction in that situation, you can see how that would impact the team if the star is kind of setting that precedent. To me, I'm just guessing that might be the thing that he said in front of the team like, hey, we need you to react this way. I was curious if you all had any other theories on what it might have been. I think it had to be something at half time

because the newser that ESPN wrote about this specifically mentioned the suspension was for Moran's response, which was a tone deemed inappropriate and dismissive in response to Eastlo challenging Moran's leadership and effort in front of the team. And so I have to, something must have happened in the first half. And they came to head at halftime and then this led to that. I do think that part seems to be true as far as there must have been some kind of conversation, even just like a tactical one of, hey, we want you to move the ball in these types of situations. Hey, we want you to, you know, rev up into these actions, whatever it is that they were asking

him to do. I think there had to have been some nudge that led John Moran to just completely shut down and go into like malicious compliance mode of like, oh, you want me to move the ball? This is what that looks like. But I think the suspension came from the postgame comment specifically of like the, oh, go ask the coaching staff. And beyond that, it sounds like they don't want me to play, basically. Like they basically the way to make our play better as a team is to bring my minutes down is what John Morant conveyed to the media.

Yeah. And Chris Harrington, everyone should go read his piece in the Daily Memphian about this afterward. He was one of the few reporters on the scene getting the quotes from Jha on this. He'd mentioned that there had been some discontent over how they were parsing out the minutes to the stars in particular. I guess they changed up the substitution pattern. So that, like, could have compounded things. But the irony to all of this, Kyle, is that Isolo is Jaws guy, right?

They fire parts of the coaching staff, including Taylor Jenkins last year to go to his more preferred pick and roll style of offense. And he has been quoted at times since that all happened, backing Islo, not only four, or just that, the offense and bringing things more toward his preference. But because of his direct communication style, he said recently after a game against the Pacers, he was like, yeah, I like the dialogue. It puts us in a better position. It's great for us.

And so it's tough to really find a place where you can fall on Jaws side because everything seems to be pointing in him kind of being a hypocrite in the situation. Yeah, I just come back. Maybe it's a combination of all of our theories where I'm like, you know, him, Rob, you mentioned like getting off the ball, you know, if you talk about those specific turnovers that I mentioned, it would behoove the Grizzlies for him not to stay on the ball and pound the ball because he is smaller and they are going to trap him. And if he gets off, if he holds it too long and gets in these disadvantageous situations,

those are turnovers. If he gets off it a little bit earlier instead of pounding the ball, his pick and roll rate is insanely high right now, even for him. His usage is pretty normal, 35.3. That's kind of in the ballpark or where he's been the last few years. but 46.8 is pretty high for him. That's pretty high across the league. And, you know, Bain shouldered some of that last year. There's just really not anybody that's credible. So I could see some frustration, you know, in the light of him having such a good game and maybe feeling good about that, you know, you get this direct criticism. Maybe he just didn't want to hear that at that moment. And that's why he erupted like that. Maybe. I mean, look, John Moranda is not the first touchy star to ever work in the NBA, to ever like bristle at a coach's conference. comments or being called out specifically and pointedly.

This stuff happens all the time. I think it's the outsized reaction. I think it's the track record. I think it's the history. I think it's like the overall idea that the John Moran experience has worn out its welcome in a wide variety of ways. And he is operating and carrying himself, as you said, Kyle, as somebody who is trying to reenter this conversation as one of the premier players in the league.

I think the fact that he was off in the wilderness for what amounts to years now between injuries and suspensions and getting back right and getting back into good form. All the while guys like Anthony Edwards are on the rise, guys like Shay are on the rise, like Jha kind of feels like he missed his moment in a lot of ways. And now he's just left frustrated, clearly. He's pointing the fingers back at the coaching staff when he, I don't even know what the devil's advocate position would be other than the ones we kind of already laid out in terms of oh, he might be frustrated because of this or that.

But there's really just no justification for behaving this way. if you're the alleged leader of a team. Yeah, it doesn't even really matter, right? Like, it doesn't ultimately matter what it was. Like, you know, you should at least take the accountability, which I want to talk with you all about that. But sorry, go ahead, Rob. No, but like there are guys who have earned that right, right,

to voice themselves and voice that frustration and maybe even, you know, call their coach back out in response to something that's happening. John Moran has made one all-NBA team. He's made two all-star teams. Two all-star teams in his entire career. He has won a single playoff. series. Like, what is, what ground does he have to stand on in terms of really putting his

foot down and saying everything should be catered around what it is that doesn't frustrate me in this moment? I think this is tough for him optically because he's lost all benefit of doubt, at least with the public, right? I think everyone is just sick of this, especially last year being so injury marred and the team having this long track record of being okay without him and them playing offense well in that previous system that he wanted to. to scrap, to go and do this, it's really like, it's tough to get on jazz side. I think the problem now is how much this filters into Hubb and Grizzlies approach things, because on top of just all of the discontent and all the issues that have been mounting, Kyle,

he hasn't played like a superstar consistently in a little while, as Rob's kind of outlining. And this season, like, you know, he'll have flashes. The Phoenix game, ultimately became the game winner is the prime example of that. but the jump shot looks flat and there's only so much you can kind of keep giving him like credence for and like kind of manage like building things toward him

basically when at a certain point you just have to throw your hands up and this might be one of those moments. I'm not sure, but I think if it continues down this path I think we can look back and say that this might have been the real inflection point for. You hit on it.

I mean, I think the shooting thing when he pivoted into and I always, I mean, I tend to do this, obviously, because I go back, I see these guys at the different stages. I saw this dude. I always tell people this story. My father-in-law works for Moorhead State basketball, and when Jaya was a freshman, he does, he was like, you got to see this kid from Murray State. He gave me, like, the tip on him, and I was like, oh, really? Okay.

So I saw Jaws. But Jha was very much like a, I didn't see him. And granted, you could say this was just me getting it wrong, but there was a pivot point for me in the way that he approached the game I thought, which was, he was sort of a floor-raising pick and roll, great, like the passing was the thing that he was known for early on. It was like, oh, man, this guy has great feel and ball screens. Like he, he, there are guys that, you know, like Shaq Buchanan and Darneau Coward, there are all these were random guys who were in the Memphis system who got a chance, but he made them all better. And something kind of shifted a little bit, I thought whenever he became the scoring focused guy, it was like the superstardom thing

kind of pivoted the way that he played. Now granted this, you know, the entire NBA ecosystem incentivizes guys to get bigger numbers, bigger stats, get those all-star teams. you know, things like that. And I just, I wondered, and this is again, this is my tinfoil thing. I just noticed a difference in him as a player that started to happen. And if he was going to become that kind of guy who was like, okay, this is the guy who's the score at the center of what we do. This is how we build our roster. The shooting does become such an issue. It like it's, it puts a cap and it creates something that's going to be a problem because, you know, the paint touches are the point. They're the thing that he does that helps every team that he is on. And, you know, if,

you're just looking at the trajectory of a guy his size. You know, he's 26 years old. I was also looking at that, like, Blake and Eudan is talking about him. I was like, he's like the third or fourth. Well, you say that's it, but he's also like the third or fourth oldest guy on the team. I don't have Brian Clark's age in front of me, but that's another thing is like the vets that are on the team. But I just, I'm kind of, another thing about this too is like, man, it just really reminds me of Alan Iverson's art. He didn't hit the highs that Iverson hit.

But do you all see that? I was kind of looking at like when things started to go weird for Iverson. I mean, it was, you know, Larry Brown left in what year? What year was that when Brown left the Sixers? Well, but it feels like Iverson's arc but sped up. It's like we fast forwarded through the like the full commencement and the celebration of who AI was and like the highest of highs in terms of actually driving winning and driving playoff success.

But they do occupy a similar space in that like what they do bring to a team when they're at their absolute best is spiritual. Like, it's cultural, right? There is a way that John Morant invigorates a team that also, that does remind me of Alan Iverson, that does remind you of like those sorts of guards. That's really important. But when you look at those teams, too, and you really drill it down is like the reason the Grizzlies were regularly winning 50 games in the regular season was because they were

regularly one of the best defensive teams in the league. And they were also regularly one of the deepest teams in the league. And so Jah was getting unbelievable high. highlights. He was clearly having a galvanizing effect on the guys that it were around him, but he wasn't dictating terms in the way that other superstar players do. And I think there's a criticism of Iverson that's similar, right? It's like the reason the Sixers went to the NBA finals is because of Alan Iverson for sure, but it's also because their defense was so good. And stars like that are always so hard to talk about and place and value properly within an organization

because what they're doing on the court is not necessarily a direct line to what makes that team so successful on like a play by play basis, even if it is like culturally speaking on a zoomed out season by season basis. Yes. How do you get rid of a player who is projected to become at the very least in the discussion for the face of the league who is printing probably money for your franchise because he's selling so many jerseys and bringing guys to the building? Even though like the team was successful, like Jai is like a one-on-one in terms of magnetism

and charisma and everything you want from a superstar. He has all of that. But I think you just have to wonder like, how long can you keep bending over backwards? And my mind flashes back to the Desmond Bain trade is sort of like a flashpoint in all of this, because I think you could say, oh, the Bain trade allowed them to take a step back

so that they could build something around Jha and Jaron that may be a little bit better suiting, may have a higher ceiling than what they ultimately had, which topped out at a certain point Jod's injuries and all of his issues probably contribute heavily to that. But now I'm starting to wonder, actually, did they give themselves the leeway? to keep cutting and make an even more dramatic sort of trade

and actually disjad and completely re-envisioned what's going on. I mean, it seemed like they were kind of at least leaving open that possibility, right? You fire Taylor Jenkins, you trade one of the three core members of your team, and it's just kind of TBD from that point. It didn't seem like there was a hard confirmation or like a reiteration of like, oh, we are a John Morant team today and tomorrow and, you know, every year going forward. It was like, this is who we are right now. This is what we have.

This is a decent enough team to go into battle with for the regular season and we'll see where it goes. Unfortunately, John Moran has taken it already like two weeks into the season into some pretty weird and dark places. I just don't know how you can keep like giving him opportunities and trust that he will be your partner in arms going forward with this. And I think that's a typical superstar thing. But when you're not playing as a superstar, that conversation gets more. or naughty and you were kind of give yourself the opportunity to make harder decisions about a superstar because then like we've seen this in like just any walks of life when you don't have the cachet like all of a sudden the bottom out falls out like very quickly right and I wonder if

this might be the moment to the point where I think I would probably tell myself if I was in the Grizzlies front office this is it but I would keep going forward not say anything publicly keep like working the market but I would say like this is where I stopped like doing things the jaw away. We're going to focus on what the future is regardless of what it is. So this is it. But we're not going to actually make any definitive movement. And it's just internally,

I am sipping my coffee going, guys, this is it. You're going to wait in the wings for the opportunity to provide itself. I think the question, Kyle, is like, what is that opportunity?

Because his market value at this point somehow has gotten lower, even though in the summer it seemed at its nadir. Yeah, this event is just, It's just so terrible because ideally you could kind of maybe come to that conclusion anyway and have him play well and be like, okay, everything has been rehabilitated. We're good. He's back to, he has reset back to the Morant that we knew before. But now this is like, this is such a tough situation because, you know, I guess Memphis could hold out and just that and just kind of act like, I don't know what you're talking about. He's John Morant, you know, and just kind of demand what they want. But the market's going to be tough. And, you know, you go on the Fanspo's trade machine and Jaws number one. And I'm going through and looking at some of the teams. I was a couple, two things. I wanted to go just mention the LaRose thing really quickly. It seems like that would be a really, like, it just seems ideal for somebody like him, you know?

I guess that granted that's going to be running last year, right? Yes, the thing that the heat are doing this year that they demonstrated on Amazon for us. But yeah, I just that. And then I was curious, do you all have like a, I'm sure we're going to hear Memphis fans that are just love jaw lovers. They're going to be mad even to hear this. Or maybe they've been on the train machine. I don't know, but do you have one just off the top of your head that you, like, find interesting, like that would just be a nice reset for him, a team where he would fit?

Well, Kyle, obviously I've prepared for this moment and I have a whole thing sketched out for this. Well, I actually have this as like, if you're in this team's front office and you're having the meeting about job, which is probably happening all over the league, probably once a month at this point because these things just keep happening, would you say, yeah, let's go for we're actually prime to take advantage of what he does well and assume the risk because that's where we are. Right? I have a list of teams that I have jot it down here.

I'm curious what you guys think. The first one is Milwaukee. I would say definitively yes. He's just such a bad with Janus. Like on a non-shooting. Not shooting. Not meeting a star level, sure. But it's like in terms of those guys actually working together.

Especially when you have Ryan Rollins. Yeah. I mean, I was going to say, A, Rollins, slander. B, just a basketball philosophy thing. I got a lot of great feedback about that with the Bulls, by the way. That was sarcasm. I mean, with two non-shooters. Thanks for the conversation.

With two non-shooters, yeah, that is interesting. But I mean, yeah, I mean, if Rollins continues, yeah, that's one that I'm not as, I'm not as favorable towards that one. And yeah, like, of course, you also could do the thing of, Like we were talking about the vet thing. I mean, Janus seems like somebody who is just so to the letter, like leadership is just such a huge part of who he is.

I wonder what that would look like if Moran is suddenly, you know, flying under the wing of Janus. Yeah. This is getting bleak quickly because that was my automatic yes. I'm curious where we go from here. Oh, I think there's one other automatic yes. What would you say?

So you think that's an automatic. Okay, okay. Yeah. I think Milwaukee has to be an automatic yes. Okay. So you're into the John Moran, Devin Booker experience? I'm not into it.

I'm saying like, would Matt it should be a say, yeah, absolutely. I believe that he would. Probably so. I just don't know what either of these teams if we're going to lump them with Milwaukee

have to give Memphis. That's interesting. Like at least Milwaukee has this far away pick that could be something down the road that you could spin for basically like what they do with the Bain trade and getting Phoenix. his own first rounder next year. But for Phoenix, I guess you just like take on Malwatch and maybe just hope to play like

three of the biggest centers simultaneously. Yeah, there's not a great offer on the board. I'm not going to lie to you. But also what even is the market for Jha? I don't know how to fairly evaluate what he should be bringing back. Yeah. That's a, that's a future question. We're just identifying the teams that might be interesting right now.

But yes, I think that's a big wrinkle to all of this. Miami team typically in the hunt for a star at all times would you break free from this beautiful Eric Spolster offense and get the guy who just forced you to scrap

that offense in Memphis yeah yeah do we are we breaking up dynasties why would we do that well Norm Powell wasn't signed long term so they have a star walking out the building any day now

I mean this is where the we're scrapping I was going to say the irony of that would be great if he complains about LaRoche and then goes to that system. But I think that segues to kind of what we're talking about is that if you want to talk about any organization that has alignment, you know, all the way up from the coach to the GM to the ownership, man, I mean, like that that would be a situation where I think his tolerance for really direct criticism would be because that stuff just doesn't go on in Miami. I mean, you see, you saw Eudana sort of a,

But I was thinking about it as I was driving to pick up my wife from having a flat tire earlier. I was thinking about accountability within organizations. And it's like it's a nice idea, but you don't really ever get to that point. It's like what makes those teams so different so that they can hold the line and tell a superstar. Like, this is the way it is. You're going to change. We're not going to fire the coach because of your whim. And it's like, yeah, Memphis just never really quite.

got to that level where they could do that. And it's going to be interesting to see if they hold the line here. But yeah, Miami would be a funny one just because it would be such a different. I don't know. How would that go? Can you imagine being Noah LaRosha? And it's like just everywhere you go, John Morant gets traded there and you get summarily fired. Like an absolutely horrible fate for a guy who's like just like a consultant with the teat at this

point. But this is the NBA and microcosm, right? We talk up all these trends and these wrinkles that teams are finding to work around the fact that superstars typically dictate the fate of the league for time, pretty much the entire league, right? Totally. But I think the question now is, are some of these super starless offenses,

at the very least giving your franchise the leeway to sell to your ownership, like actually the star who's being a dick, we don't need him, actually, because we could do this without him, go look at Miami and all these other places that have succeeded without them. You can even throw, I guess to a certain extent, if you really want to squint like OKC

because obviously they have Shay in the MVP but like they have built this big old feeder system, the wings and defense and that is starting to filter around the league. I think the time right now is best to at the very least lie to your owner and say that we don't need to put up with a superstar.

I just think that the payoff of going that far down the go-to option list is worse than it's ever been. Like there was a point in the NBA where it was ISO-driven enough or even just pick and roll-driven enough we're just handing John Morant the ball and clearing out and giving him even a marginal amount of space is like, okay, this is a

successful basis for something. I think Jha, between the injuries, the shooting, his difficulty getting to and finishing at the rim, which is shocking to think about given his athleticism, but has been kind of a continuing trend in his game along with everything that happens with his conduct on and off the court at this point, apparently. Just thinking about him as a pure go-to score and go-to creator

is far enough down that list at this point where it just doesn't necessarily justify itself. Like, you have to have more reason to want to believe in that model. And if that doesn't work, if he's the kind of player who just all of a sudden doesn't really track in that way, then why not play the way that Miami Heat are playing? Why not play the way that the Indiana Pacers played last season? Why wouldn't you try a different, you know, more democratic style if you can get the ball movers and the ball handlers and the kind of shooters to at least believe that you can live that way?

the counter to that would be Toronto who stink despite paying a lot to get all these mid-tier veterans in there that's the other team I have on this list. How many of those guys can actually pass is kind of where I've been with that team to begin with. And that's to say nothing about the shooting, which the spacing in Toronto is obviously its own problem.

But there's a lot of guys who are like sticky with the ball, right? Who needed in their hands who aren't making the like split second decisions that teams like Miami are thriving with. And then frankly, even teams like Memphis were doing well with even as recently as last season. So there's a very fine line between this guy can get assists and this guy can actually play in a very fast-moving read and react system. And those are not at all the same thing.

They have never been the same thing. But it's easy to talk yourself into it. So are you pro, jaw to Toronto or anti? He wouldn't play worse than Emmanuel quickly has been playing. So maybe that's an argument in favor. Soft maybe from Rob. Soft maybe. Yeah.

I mean, it seems like the Kings would be the type of team that would trade for. I know that that's just like the repeating, recurring punching back joke that we make. But that does seem like something that they would do. So no serious team, you're saying. It's literally the Phoenixes, the Kings, the dogs of the league. New Orleans will throw in there just because they tend to get involved in stupid things as well. Sure. Like what about Houston, for instance?

Absolutely not. Don't see them. break the off the defense. They shouldn't. They should not. Even if the cost is low, I wouldn't do it. They've got a good thing going here, man.

Again, you want to talk about accountability, man. Emae will chew that. He's serious. I mean, that's the thing. If you watch them, dude, they defend their big. I just don't, especially with like the shooting issues that they already have. Like, do you want to add John Morant? Can John Morant and Amen play together?

I mean, they can. I just kind of wonder, what does that, look like in a playoff series. If you don't have to hard close on a John Moran and you're trying to slow Amin Thompson down, I just I don't, I think that's just stacking another dissonant idea on top of what they already are. We should also say, you know, while we're wish casting Houston Rockets point guards, they have very quietly climbed to the number one offensive efficiency in the NBA spot. So I think they're doing okay.

I actually find that my concerns about them still hold true because I think their size is an advantage against middling teams. Sure. Like you saw that happen against Toronto in particular where Colin Murray Bowles was talking about how his wrists hurt because he tried to box out Stephen Adams. And it's just like that sort of size I think is going to overwhelm teams that don't have an identity, don't really have much to fight back against that. But I'm still worried about like the high end there.

But you're right. I saw that the other day. It's like, oh yeah, the issues are on offense, but they're literally the best move. Yeah, it seems to be going more or less okay. And like granted, a lot of transition offense, a lot of other things happen. happening there. They could use a little more half-court refinement. Ladies and gentlemen, John Morant is not your source of half-court refinement. No, no. You're right. I mean, yeah, I was going to say, they're just destroying people getting out in transition, which is a nice

segue to me to bring back a really wildly popular segment, the big boy of the week. It's a tandem. I'm going to say Jabari Smith and I'm in Thompson had one particular sequence against the Boston Celtics. Sorry, Isaiah. It was a play where there was a back cut. Jalen Brown turned like he was, I said that extremely country. Brown, he turned to the baseline and Jabari peeled off and timed it perfectly. Incredible block. A man goes to the link of the floor and one dunks it in Chris Boucher's face. They're just big boy in everybody. So that's, that's, that's my segment to my recurring segment there. Double big boys. Or is the plural of big boys, big boys or big's boy? What do you think? Where are we going? It's big boys with a Z They're like those brothers Those those brothers on the motorcycle In the Guinness World Book of Records

It's like that really really big boys What are you talking about? You never seen that picture? That's an iconic picture Yeah, very large men on motorcycles Sure What was your last one? Justin, I'm sorry

I had to get my I had to get the segment in there That's it's great That was a really important thing To be super important I have two last I guess like if you're Brooklyn Do you just take this? talent is it and just say we'll figure it out later or does he step on the seven or so point

cards that they have and their own development this is where i just get like a little freaked out culturally you know it's like the idea of bringing in john moran as a talent is profound the idea idea of jama rand at his absolute best is somebody who could transform the nets and where they are even with all those young point guards like he's he's a guy who can and we've seen play with other good ball handlers uh but if he's going to be doing this. I don't want that guy around my young team. And so this is how you get to, you know, the Kings and the Sons and the Pelicans list of trade candidates so quickly is because it is hard to be a serious team and want John Morant, the leader to be a critical part of what

it is you do. And it's hard to even be a rebuilding team and see John Morant the leader and want him to be, you know, guiding your young guards along and teaching them the ropes of what it means to be a pro. And it's pretty clear he doesn't really understand. No, I just, it's circling back to kind of like what we've been saying and we're talking about the accountability. I think it would, I think it would have to be a team. It would almost have to be like the warriors absorbing DeMarcus cousins, not that it's that level of, it would have to be that kind of thing where a team is so certain about their organizational stability and that like even if something does happen, it's like this, this won't be allowed to be a thing. I don't think it can be a situation where he can come in and suddenly

be the central nervous system of wherever he goes, like a Brooklyn or something like that. I think it would have to be. So maybe that's an argument for the Milwaukee thing. Again, respect to Ryan Rawlins, but culturally, I think that's the type, if they did make a move. That's the kind of team,

I think, would be the most likely to succeed if they were to trade for John Moran. Well, we're talking about strong cultures. Last one I have in the list here. Of course, the Portland Trail Wazers, just rock solid defense

that you could put around Jha. He's close to the Nike campus. Those are six shoes, man. You got to, They're sick. I say the coaching situation, obviously very, very stable over there. Hey, Tiago is, I think, doing an okay job thus far. He's putting in work. I would hesitate if I were the Blazers because Drew Holiday has been significantly better than John Moranth this season somehow. So what are you going to do with that? Don't want to step on Drew. No.

Can't keep him out of the paint, man. Yeah, I just don't think there's much of a home for him at this point. So I would love for the Grizzlies to sort this out because I'm kind of tired of the carousel going on here. But I just don't know where at this point. I didn't think they'd be this big of a bummer this quickly. You know, like this is a team that, again, historically has just like found ways to weather runs of injury, to weather runs with and without John Moran. Obviously, we've seen them fully bottom out at times as well. But I just figured there would be another team this year, you know, in the mix, competitive enough. you know, fighting, the dog fight

that is just like the middle of the Western Conference. And instead we're just already here. And it's not that they've been a disaster in the standings. It's just they clearly have already reached this sort of point where John Moran is forcing their hand.

Like he forced them to suspend him. And now we'll be forcing them to make hard calls on the future of the franchise at a time where you would love if you're the Grizzlies the ability to slow play this thing. One more, the Timberwolves. Is that even possible with there's I mean like roster wise there is a we've talked there is a obviously a void there with them auditioning it's been

Dillingham's not quite ready to go conley is what's interesting is that it would be really nice to have Mike conley on this Memphis Chris Lys roster right now to sort of be a steadying force but the timber wolves are interesting to me on that front does that work I submit that to the midnight society yeah I mean if you're worried about their defense right now. Timing seems a little bit off to add John Morant in there. True. I think long term they do have a lot of issues about how they're going to fill certain voids. Obviously,

the Nikiel void didn't just paper itself over very quickly there. But also, I think the Dillingham thing has been pretty much a failure at this point. I don't have much hope that it will sort itself out. But what do you have to even trade Memphis in that scenario? Yeah. I don't know, because they don't have picks because of the Dillingham situation.

And I don't think Dillingham are, any of their young guys are super interesting. Maybe again, a center in Johann Barrege. Just, they ain't trading Barron Jay. Come on. From my cold good fingers, if I'm in Minnesota. I actually think Barron Jay is interesting to the wolves and a lot and would be potentially to a lot of teams, but that's the sort of market you're tapping into with him and

Dillingham both is not, are you trying to be competitive right now? But do you believe in these guys in three years effectively? Like, can you buy what they could be down the line? That's a tough sell for the John Moran Grizzlies or the, the John Morantless Grizzlies, I guess, in this hypothetical. I think if you want to play devil's advocate here and say, like, if there is any sort of optimism, maybe this is just like holding him accountable in action. Like, actually, it looks bad because this is what accountability looks like.

And actually this in the long run is in their best interest to suspend him, say, like, we're not going to put up with your shit. Yeah. And you actually have to earn your way there. Like kind of what people are saying about some of the gambling stuff going on where it's like, actually, this is, we're catching more of this. stuff now, and so we're more aware of it, and so we have to police it, is this actually this coming to light for John?

I appreciate, Justin, your want to be the devil's advocate. This is what you do, you know? You're very good at standing on these ledges. I will spring of optimism. Truly always. I would bet we can pull a clip that is almost word for word what you just said from when John Morant was suspended and barred from the team and said, like, you know, checked himself in in Florida.

It's like, oh, this is what accountability. It looks like this is the real moment for him. This is the turning point. Like, how many turning points does a guy get? You know, like, how many opportunities does he have to have, like, actual accountability? I know. And that's the big thing with the Portland thing as well. It's like too many strip clubs per capita.

Okay. Put a guy in anywhere near. Is that true? Place where he, yeah. They're a little bit more old than probably he's used to, but, you know, we all adapt. Portland, are they stripping off their Pendleton woolware? What are they? What's going on?

I just can't picture that. I don't know. I mean, I can picture that, but I just get it. It doesn't seem. Let's not picture that. I'll choose not to, but anyway, I'm surprised to do that. Since we're talking about the great culture of Portland. Let's talk about the team on the court right now.

Everywhere I go, they ask me, sir, when, when are we going to talk about the, the, the mighty Portland Trailblazers and their small ball lineups. I go to the grocery store. The girls are the little lasses and lads are pulling on my coat and saying, please talk about true holidays, steady veteran leadership. I'm like, we will eventually. Eventually, when the rest of the podcast acknowledges how good this season is, but we will do it.

Sounds like the lamest Charles Dickens novel ever, just little kids in the street. Tough competition for that. Charles Dickens, low-key sucks. But we should say, the Portland Swear Jar has been implemented this season for any time Justin brings up the Blazers in a manner in which we think is uncalled for. We all signed off on doing a Blazers-oriented segment

of some time today, thus illustrating their power, thus illustrating just how good they've been this season. They're kind of undeniable at this point. They've been one of the best stories of the early season. They look absolutely ferocious, defensively, in a way that is building on everything they had, especially at the tail end of last year. Like, they just got something.

Yeah, it's ironic because they're past two drafts. They've drafted two big old boys, like not just centers, but like colossal men. But their best lineups, and the one that have caught my eye are these small ball lineups where they're just putting a bunch of wings, guarding the entire length of the floor,

and basically being like, all of your players need to show that they can dribble, which unfortunately, Cam Johnson did not pass that test late in the game the other night. But I think that Denver game, which was, of course, an NBA Cup game, which only the best rise to the top in the cup action, I think it really showed the blueprint in action. And I think it validated some of the things that we've been noticing over the good stretch. I think in the midst of drafting the bigs and taking swings on really talented guards and scoot in Shaden Sharp,

they've really backloaded the roster with a bunch of wings. Practically, whenever they could, they were just taking flyers on wings. I wrote about it. Basically, last year, when I did a thing focused on Tumani Kumar, has been the best of them. But there are just guys on top of guys where, like, when they need them, they just have a lot of length in stock.

And I think down the stretch of the Denver game was like proof of action of that kind of philosophy, which isn't all that different than a lot of other organizations coming to bear, where Shaden Sharp played really well to start the fourth quarter. They were basically spamming him getting downhill. against Jonas Valanchunus and he scored a bunch of points. But because their team and their identity springs from these two-way wing type of guys, we're going to defend everything. And that decision was made easy when Tumani and Denny popped last year.

They really kind of just decided that that was going to be their North Star. They rode Chris Murray down the stretch who, by and large, not that great of a player, but he was bringing it defensively. And you see what happens when they turn over Cam Johnson or when they're just making things difficult to get up the court. And then like all of a sudden you're trying to get away and whoop, Tumani's there trying to draw a charge because he's an absolute pest. And like the biggest thing, Rob was like Jeremy Grant guarding Yokic with in tandem with Drew Holiday where they were kind of doing an inside out thing.

He actually kind of flustered him for for most of that stretch there. And so it's working. There's obviously concerns offensively and just like how much they can keep up the pace. But like it's looking very good this far. It's baffling to watch Jeremy Grant NBA. center, like kind of work. I still have my doubts and my reservations about it. I still like them best when they have an actual big out there. That feels the most

solid to me. It feels the most secure to me. Maybe this is my big man bias showing. But what you're saying about, like the Rob Williams revival. I mean, that's all fine. Like, he's among them for sure. Yeah. I just want, like, I want them to have the option of, you know, leaning even harder on the offensive rebounds and the way that like, Klingin in particular allows them to do of having the, you know, the presence in the middle so that all these guys can fly around on the perimeter and bait out steals and do all that.

Like, I want the balance of that structure ultimately. But you're right about the interchangeability of a lot of these wings. And I think some of it is like, I kind of like what Chris Murray is doing. Like, I kind of like what a lot of these guys are bringing to the table, even the lesser wings on the roster for a team that seemed pretty shallow.

Like, seemed like they were going to have to plug and play their starters in various combinations to make it all work. And then all of a sudden, you just see guys coming off the bench and giving them. important and meaningful minutes to the point that when you look over the course of these games, the starters are largely getting punked together.

Like when that group plays together, they are losing those minutes almost every time out. It's all of the regularly assembled interchangeable wing combinations throughout that are just making it, here's just like 30 minutes of other stout defense. You know, like here is a way to construct a lifeline through the course of a game

just based on energy and effort and youth and the enthusiasm of all these young guys who know how to guard, I just think it really works as like the baseline of an organization right now. Yeah, Justin, you said it. I mean, it's interesting that they had this central goal of like, okay, let's get these two sort of scoring tilted guards with scoot and with Shaden. And you think, okay, this is our vision. And even I remember in some of the draft coverage we did, I was like predicting that maybe

they should get a passing big guy to play between them. But you're right, like the stuff that has really popped. You were saying that it was, I remember what adjave you used, but I was, I was watching them and I was like, it's not beautiful basketball in the traditional way. The traditional Portland teams that we've seen over the year, if any city has like a basketball personality. If anything, maybe the early 90s blazers that had a little bit of more that punch you in the mouth, dunk on you kind of thing going on.

But, and Rob, you said it too. Like that smaller lineup that they went with against Denver's second unit, which was Sharp, Avdia, Kamara, Jeremy Grant, and Drew, they didn't just challenge Denver to do things offensively, man. They were really killing them with like really athletic, fast cutting. Peyton Watson, I thought Aaron Gordon was about to ring Peyton Watson's neck like a cartoon. Like it was like, he was just like, what do you do? And over and over again, I mean, Denny has just become, he's just blossomed into this. His ball handling has just taken such a leap, man. I mean, like getting it so physical, getting it. He was bullying Jamal Murray.

So these are like, they're not gigantic lineups, but they're kind of crammed in that middle zone where They are long. They are very, very fast. And Cam Johnson, man, just throughout that game was just getting, I wanted to gauge with you all. Like, if you want to just do a quick tack on from last week, is this a anything? Is this, what I forget that, whatever, is this a thing? Is Cam Johnson's defense a thing? Because OKC is similar in their build in the types of teams that they play.

They're going to have to beat OKC. At least MPJ was like, when healthy, could give you some of the weak side contest thing. He's big. He can jump. man, Cam in that game, I don't know if it was that they weren't interested in the cup or whatever it was or he's not feeling good. But in particular in this game, I thought they were just really, really taxing him in a way that was jumping off the screen to me. Has Cam Johnson's defense ever been a thing? I mean, holding up has always been the goal for him.

He didn't hold up in this game. Yeah, I noticed the lack of size because I'm used to MPJ being out there. At the very least, he'll like when he's activated, be on the boards or just to be a big body. choking up space, which I think is particularly advantageous against Portland because, yeah, they are fast and feisty, but there's a lot of just girth and size and strength to all of those wings. Like, try boxing out Drew Holiday, who's a fucking brick out there. And Cam Johnson doesn't really bring that physical aspect. We'll see.

But like, especially when he's not hitting, he does stand out for them. Like, is like, what else are we doing out here? Yes. But I'm glad you zeroed in on, like, the way that Portland's physicality impacts their offense. as well, right? It is not just them getting into people's jerseys. It's the way that they can go after the Cam Johnson's. It factors into the speed they play with too, because if you're going to be the second fastest offense in the league short of Miami and have this kind of wiry physicality to you, that's when you see everything that's coming out in Denny's game right now. We're like,

Denny Avdia is not the quickest first step in the league. And teams just like cannot keep him out of the paint right now. And a lot of that is because of all the transition and semi-transition stuff that Portland has going for them. And because even if you kind of get in front of him, Denny can bump you out of the way. And he's getting better and better at drawing fouls. He's getting better and better at moving so quickly on the catch. That to me is kind of the emblem of the team Portland is and wants to be.

It's like, how do we channel that sort of downhill momentum all the time? And you can only do that if you're as physical as these guys are. Yeah, the offense is always going to be the big concern. I think the defense of success, I think we could have projected based on the personnel. not only is it the wings, but Klingin is obviously a huge deterrent there and getting Rob Loemey's back. I mean, should have won the defensive player of the year. So if he's giving 15 minute there, he just works so well off of what they've already established. It's always been the offense.

It's basically can they tread water? Is there enough there collectively? And ironically enough, Shaden Sharp has basically had a showcase opportunity and all of a sudden he kind of flubbed it. Preseason he looked great. He just like could not miss a shot, especially in that first game against Golden State. he just like really doesn't have it going right now to the point where like when he was hitting in that game he was very intentional about like we're going to go to shade and he's going to get his versus all these other guys that could just play so beautifully within the flow of things denny in particular so good at

that matching not only just like the more european like i could do anything in the flow of this with the physicality he's taken a leap i think jeremy grant has been reborn at this point as a six-man score. I think part of that is like maybe just the team had bigger expectations and he seems to me to be the type of guy who will wax and Wayne depending on like where we are like at the team is going well. But if it's going well, I'm going to play up there and obviously he has more veterans there. Drew is a guy more of his age. Dame is there just hanging out. Like that plus the bench roll, I think scoring against second units has really like like reengaged that part of him. But I think Drew has just been an absolute, like, shocker to me because I think there was a lot of data to suggest

based on last year that that might have been it. When I first saw him, I was like, this dude is, like, chiseled. Like, he's lean as hell, but still, like, a tank. And so he looked even more fit than when I saw him almost a decade ago in New Orleans when I was covering that team with him. But he just has, like, this steadying presence. And if you look at a lot of the crunch time plays that they've been in, there have been a lot of close games. Like, Like he just has the ability to be so calm and chaos that like right now they're getting by with all of this stuff. I think at a certain point there's going to be a rubber meets the road moment. It could be this week when they play Luca.

And then OK, C is in town where it's like, oh, we got to go star for star. Like, where is the juice coming? Yeah. Rob made a face when you said Jeremy Grant was reborn. I didn't know if he had something to say. I was just waiting. I was just watching. I think reborn is charitable.

I would say he woke up from a resuscitated. A two-year-long nap, you know? Tomato. Yeah, he wasn't killed. He decided to go to sleep. That, to me, is kind of the fundamental difference in the Jeremy Grant experience.

But, Jess, and I felt you speaking from, like, a very personal place of, like, Drew Holiday, his peer shows up, and all of a sudden he feels reinvigorated. It's like, I'm imagining you in a room of 20-somethings trying to not blow your brains out and then, like, all of a sudden, one person in their mid-30 shows up.

And you just can't stop talking to him. You know, you're just clinging to. their side. That's not where I thought you were going, but I'm glad you went in that direction. I had no clue where that was going. Such a Homer, it's amazing how quickly you have become such a Boston, or

a Boston, Portland, Portland Homer, Justin. It's egregious, frankly. You're in the professional. I'm aware. I love Portland as much as the next person, man. I mean, shout out to the screen door, El Gaucho. Yeah. Shout out K. D. Say, really good.

Heart coffee. But, you know, I don't you really, I don't know, with your wishy-washy Yukon fandom, I'm just kind of like, what is, what's with this guy? He's just, he's all over there. Are there any other establishments of other kinds you want to shout out? It seems like you have a rich understanding of the area. The strip clubs you mentioned, you know, beyond that. That's what I'm talking about. All the vegan strip clubs. Do you want me to just list where I'll be on a kind of daily basis? I mean, that's up to you. I guess, you know, if you don't want to make your your whereabouts known, I do understand that. A gentleman does prefer his privacy. I mean, I'm mostly just going back and forth between my place and in the grocery store. So if you want to check me out at a Trader Joe's by you. No, I mean, heart is actually where I get my coffee bean. So definitely got to shout them on there once a week. We'll keep her coffee action on the side, you know, a little compliment, a little power, a little speed. It's important.

Sure, yeah. Need it. In addition to the offense, can we just address one last concern here for Portland? Or have I exhausted? how much of a lot to talk. I'm taking this as like the opportunity for you to get this out of your system. You know, like really tire yourself out because it's going to be a minute before we can dedicate a whole segment to the Blazers again. They lost Matisse Thibel, who is playing really well.

It really hasn't missed a shot since he came back late in last season. Also, Blake Wesley went down in this game. He was literally their only guard off the bench. And when you carry Dame as like just a non-entity for this entire. year and obviously scoot goes down. The back court is looking very thin very quickly. And I think to Rob's earlier point, I think they're going to

struggle to play at this pace at this intensity over the course of the season. And so they have depth, but they really need to be too deep in order to make this all work. And I do worry that they might not have that. If something strikes with Drew for instance, like, does this all fall apart

so quickly? Well, not if something happens with Drew. I'm not trying to jinx the man, but he's basically co-leading this team in minutes right now. Like that is not what you want for Drew Holiday. It's not, it shouldn't be the plan. And they're doing that necessity, and they're doing it because he's been so good.

And I think all those things are totally justified. But we would all like to see a resolution that does not involve Drew Holiday running himself into the ground, trying to keep pace with an offense this fast. They're really depending on, it's the, it's the classic thing. I mean, they're really depending. They're leading the league in like threes generated in transition.

So they're really depending on that. I feel like as sort of a, whatever it is the what is it where you slap it on the glass and the the flexial they're depending on that for the for the flexial for that I guess just the talking about strip clubs again

no you're slapping in your mind what's happening to this podcast I don't know I didn't do that Sunday we're not used to the time this is all over the place right now we bring in Kyle and all we talk about is strip clubs I would not have anticipated it I'm just trying to get us in the right

algorithms guys but no I mean that's that's a typical thing with younger athletic teams I mean if you can't generate in a half court you want to try to find it where you can so yeah I mean in a half court situation I think they're going to have a whole new set of questions and they're going to need those other guys back for sure all right we'll wrap it there unfortunately we'll be back on Wednesday thank you to Victoria Valencia thank you to Ben Cruz thank to Isaiah Blakely we'll talk to you next time must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1,800 gambler, or visit RG-Hallp.com. Call 1-88-789-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut, or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline, ma.org, or call 800, 327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts.

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