The Ringer NBA Show - How Mike Brown Changed the Knicks | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 20, 2025

Logan Murdock and Raja Bell are back with another edition of Real Ones, and they discuss the orange and blue skies everywhere following the Knicks' victory in the NBA cup. Can the Knicks make a run at the Eastern Conference title and possibly a championship? How did new coach Mike Brown change this team's playing style after how Tom Thibodeau ran things? Dillon Brooks had another controversial moment on Thursday night when he committed a flagrant foul against Steph Curry. But was it as bad as people made it seem? Should the NBA change the location of the NBA Cup final? Plus, Real One of the Week! (0:00:00) I ntro (0:20) Knicks Discussion (2:46) FanDuel ad break (20:55) FanDuel ad break (21:42) Amazon Prime ad break (22:16) Dillon Brooks's flagrant foul against Steph Curry (33:55) Should the NBA Cup move to Cameron Indoor Stadium? (44:38) Real One of the Week Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja BellProducers: Victoria Valencia and Clifford AugustinAdditional Production Support: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins Hit the mailbag! ⁠[e-mail]⁠ The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out ⁠rg-help.com⁠ to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Shopping. Streaming. Celebrating. It’s on Prime. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's pop in Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bill there, and by there, I mean live from Vegas. It's going to be a doozy. Let's get right to it. Let's talk about the New York Knicks, who are currently 19 and 7 in the east right behind the Detroit Pistons. They're currently on a seven-game winning streak. In the last calendar month, they've only lost two games. They're in the Raja zone of top five in points per game, three-pointers made, and three-point percentage.

second and offensive rating behind Denver, fourth in net rating, fourth in opponents' points per game. And they won the NBA Cup. Raja, how do you feel about the Knicks so far out of the season? How do they sustain this? Whatever this magic is, how do they sustain it? Yeah, I mean, I like the Knicks. I like the Knicks, especially in the Eastern Conference when you're talking about, you know, how wide open that is.

They're experienced in the playoffs in the Eastern Conference. conference. You know, they're shooting the ball a little more freely this year, I think, from three. But when I go back and look at all of their numbers, I mean, Brunston's rationally up, cats fractionally down, points per game that is. O.G.'s hovering. What they have this year that they didn't have last year is a bench that can produce. You know, they can go into their depth a little bit more, which allows you to sustain runs within games.

It allows you to sustain, like, you know, runs throughout the course of, you know, a stretch of games because you're not having to always run those starters deep into the fourth quarter in games that you ordinarily would be able to put away to start the fourth quarter. Because there's a handful of those throughout the course of an NBA season, right?

When you're a good team where, hey, we can get up out of here. We can let this bench get in there. And coach doesn't have to worry about that league, disappearing on us in three minutes and now we have to go back in and close. So, you know, I like what they're doing. I like what Mike Brown's done with them offensively, freeing them up a little bit. They do some, they do some good stuff, you know, when picking rolls taking place or primary action up top where they're moving guys now a little bit, which is occupying defenders.

And just, you know, just little wrinkles here and there. But I like the Knicks, especially, you know, in the Eastern Conference that is that is wide open. Right. Right now you'd look at it and say them. and Detroit, we saw that last year. It was a really good, you know, well, I mean, it was a good series. I give Detroit credit for playing them a little tougher than I thought.

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your Wyoming gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler, or visit rG dash help.com, call 188-789-777, or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. I love your point about the bench and what they have been doing with the bench. I think there's more of a trust there than there was last year. You know, they also got Jordan Clarkson. They got a lot of guys that can play off the bench and that can score off the bench and kind of supplement when the starters are out. case and point of a game like the Pacers game last night, which was, I think we're going to start, as long as we have the NBA Cup, we're going to start seeing the difficulty with the game after the NBA Cup.

You saw that last night with the Thunder, where the Thunder get down, I think they were down like 10 points to the Clippers, right, where they're just trying to get their motion back. And the Knicks go into Indiana. It's one of those slog games that you play like shit, but you have to bring, you know, you have to, trust your guy at the end and they trusted Brunson in the end. But for the large stretches of that game, there were guys that a lot of people in the NBA fan would be like, who's that? Who's that? A lot of those type of guys stepping up to the plate and continue that lead and making sure that they have a game down the stretch for Jalen Brunson to kind of finish. And you're starting to see

more of those types of things. And I think one of the things that gets neglected with Thibbs is he plays these guys so many minutes that when either a guy is going to go down and you run them into the ground, or if a guy is injured, you don't trust anyone to step up in the biggest moments. And I think when I think about this, I think about the Spurs back in the day when, you know, they would get in trouble for, you know, load management before it was load manager. But they would have these games where they would sit to me, they would sit, Mono, they would sit Tony, and the bench would get them a game or they would play really well and win a game that they're not supposed to. and you would see those same guys in January win those games in April and May and June.

And I'm starting to see that. What other thing that you brought up? And I really want to talk about this because both of us have a relationship with this guy or have had experiences with this guy, and that's Mike Brown. And this was a quote after, I think this was after the Pacers game. This is from Jalen Brunson. And he talks about the confidence that Mike Brown has instilled to. in the team. And he says, it shows the confidence and trust that Mike has in us to figure it out.

He's not afraid to fail. And I think that mindset of not being afraid to fail is good for us because it allows us to continue to fight. It allows us to go out there and not worry about the result. We may play great defense on a possession, hit a tough shot. We may play great game, all game, and losing the final buzzer, but we're not afraid to fail. I think that's big time for us. We've got to continue to do that and have that mindset going forward. And I felt like that was a very instructive quote on the metamorphosis of Mike Brown because even two years ago, I remember talking to Malik Monk about Mike Brown. And he says he wants to be a perfect and an imperfect world. And I think you saw a lot of that when you saw him in Cleveland.

And I kind of see more of a freeness. Now, I don't know how long that's going to last. But I really do like what I've seen from Mike Brown with this group. and you've seen that trust really work out in games like last night and also games like the NBA Cup where they're down, they put in a line of with Mitchell Robinson and that bench and that gets them back into the game against the Spurs and they ended up winning that game. What have you thought about Mike Brown and this metamorphosis, even in this small sample size

that we have him in the Knicks? Well, let me touch first on the development of your bench, right? Like it's really, you know, it's interesting because to you trust your bench, they have to get out there and perform at a level and succeed on a level that instills trust in other people, the coach, their teammates, you know, the front office, so on and so forth. But to even be afforded that opportunity, you know, like they've got to earn that trust by going out there and doing it, but they've got to be afforded that trust up. front to have the opportunity to go out there and make the mistakes that you might be talking about, Logan, right? Because you're not coming in off the bench every game first time they call your number and being perfect as a bench player. Like it just doesn't work like that. There may be some instances where you come out and you're three for three and you hit all your assignments and now,

you know, your shift is over. But more often than not, like you're just knocking jitters off, especially the first couple times you're called on. And so that is imperfect. And so someone's got to look at it and understand that and not obsess about the imperfect and give you another opportunity to go out there the next time so that you can, hey, I'm a little bit better this time as a player, right? And like now I'm developing into someone that you can trust more,

but it started with you trusting me in the first place, right? And so like, you know, it's a weird thing. And as far as the psyche of a player goes, I always felt from a coach, I could feel the way you felt about me reflected in the way you coached me. So like we read everything as players, your facial expression when we make a mistake, the tone of your voice, like when you're instructing us,

whether you have patience with us. No, I mean, these are just things, right? Especially as a young player when I'm looking around and I'm like, yo, does this cat have patience with me or is he just looking to bite my head? head off every time I make a mistake. And those things register and they stay with us. So, you know, coaches develop too. And through trial and error, like Mike Brown's been with some great coaches. He's had success in some places. He's had some failure in some places. But I think what he's

starting to understand, especially with this generation of player, Logan, is that like, these guys respond way more and respond better to positivity, to, you know, less hands on than the generation before, you know, the generation before was, you know, those coaches were basically trying to play, you know, some of them were trying to play Xbox with you, you know? Like, they were so far in your head every possession that you were like, fuck, I can't even think. Now, the better ones like Mike D. Antony, you know, offensive ones, I should say, the better offensive minds, they were kind of hands off. And they kind of let you do what you do. And because of that, I would have had a quote, very similar to Brunson's about Mike Brown when talking about Nellie or Mike DeAnne

Tony because those guys just instilled confidence because, you know, first of all, they let you know it, they verbalized it. But you never really looked over at them and saw them super frustrated or all been out of shape because you made a mistake. It was always, hey, on to the next, let's figure it out. And that, you know, players respond to that, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Now, what I would say to you is on the defensive side of the ball, guys like Larry Brown you know Jerry Sloan you know they didn't have that same

hands off you know instilling confidence approach on on the offensive end so like I didn't have those feelings about them but on the because they were sticklers and they were in your ass and they were you know defensively they usually put out a better product yeah yeah no it's I want to I'm staying on this

when you talk about the balance that's required on that right because sometimes you just, I mean, and you're talking about legendary coaches here. So like we're kind of splitting hairs, right? When you have Nellys, the Mike Browns, the Larry Browns, or not the Mike Browns, the Mike Dantoneys, the Larry Browns. What's the balance that you have to have on staff when you either have a hard ass leading your bench or maybe an easygoing person leading your bench? Do you have to have like a number one assistant that is different, right? I think about a Doc Rivers and a Tom Tibido in Boston, right? Like Doc Rivers is a guy's guy and very personable.

And then you had the defensive coordinator, Tibbs, like, hey, you could hear him like on the sidelines. Like, what is the staff? Like, what kind of balance do you need? Yeah, no. I mean, balance is the word, right? Like, you've got to have whatever your head is, your associate head or your number one assistant needs to be the opposite of that.

And maybe he could be a chair removed from the head. head assistant, but you have to have, if your coach is, your head coach is a vibes guy, hey, chill, everything's going to be all right, brother, let's focus. You have to have that voice the reason that I'm not fucking around guy somewhere close to him on that bench. And if your head is the, hey, I'm not fucking around, like, you already know what time it is with me. Then you got to have a vibes guy that can bring a young player over and be like, I mean, he's tripping. You know he's going to be tripping. Like, just keep doing what you do. Everything's going to be all right. You got to have that guy close to him.

So balance within the staff is important. And then, you know, the delegation of responsibility, right? Like, because some coaches might have their, you know, their counter, you know, personality near them, but they don't free them up in a way that allows them to really do their job. So, like that, you know, all of that thing is, all of those things are important to staffs for sure. I think it's funny. Like, I don't know what Mike Brown is right now in the small sample size. And also, like, I haven't, like, seen him as, as, as.

saw him in Summer League, but I haven't seen him as a member of the Knicks coach in person. But I do remember, like, when I was covering both in Sacramento up and in the Bay, he was just a stickler for detail in a way that was just kind of sometimes scary, to be honest with you, sometimes he would like, like, I don't know if I've told this story in the pod, but he used to take pictures of his outfits all 82 games and take pictures from down to the suit to the tie, to the shoes. Every game and would have it out on his phone so he could cross-reference for what he had going on the road. Right.

That was a stickler, right? And then he began with the Kings, every little detail, he would get on their ass. And I think a lot of ways that kind of, I want to separate two things. One, I think he got a raw deal in Sacramento because it's Sacramento. But on the other hand, he did kind of wear that team out with. the attention to detail. And here it seems like he's kind of taking the foot off of the gas. And like also he can be a like a vibes guy.

Like if you see him, he's kind of the life of the party. If you know, you know at Golden State. But I think what's required after all of those years with Thibbs and getting to a certain point, I feel like this Knicks team needed a breath of fresh year like, man, that was a lot of work, right? Like, do you think that that is working for the Knicks right now? Just like that, who, okay, cool. Like, we're not going to get a foot in our ass every, every game, every time out.

We're going to actually get, like, you know, some version of an affable guy. Yeah, that's an interesting question, Logan, because there is a period of time, like, you know, you leave a relationship and that person was overbearing in any way, shape, or form that if you hopped into another relationship, you might go find somebody that was just, the opposite of that and vibes will be super high for a while until you may figure out at some point that that person has their own faults and there were some benefits to having the person that you had before you know and so that remains to be seen because you know like I said well well well tibs offensively in the grind that he could put players through in terms of just overall minutes and just maybe mental bandwidth doesn't does if you're not getting over the help with that style it can

burn you out. There's also some benefit to that style. It raises the floor of who you can be in certain instances, right? Because like you know, push comes to shove. Preparation, understanding, you know, assignment driven is going to be right because he beats it into you. So like, you're going to get that kind of stuff right. Now, the freedom, the relaxation to play good offense and be who we are might not always be there. So that might limit your ceiling. But the floor is going to be set relatively high. Now, Mike Brown is going to remain to be seen, but I do think what you see from them offensively is sort of a refreshing, like, kind of breath for them, right?

This is a, this is a, hey, man, we are now freed up in some instances to play through these mistakes and do things. And, you know, it might even be as simple as like their off days or kind of, you know, more reflective of a chill personality than they might have been under Tibbs. I don't know. I'm not there. You know, I know Tibbs used to be a beat you up in practice. kind of take two years off for your career kind of coach.

But it'll remain to be seen. And as far as I could say about Mike, like I didn't know Mike Brown super well. He was on staff, I believe, when I was in training camp with San Antonio. And then I was a consultant at the time coming to see him with the Cavs towards the end of that. And that team, when you walked into practice and David Grishin asked me to hang around for two days and just kind of let him know what I thought of the team's response, if you will,

to like Mike's messaging. And it took me all of two hours to be like, yeah, no, they're out. Like this, I mean, these two- You called them late in the season during that time, right? Like, it was like later in there. This was, yeah, that was basically the end of the season.

And you could just feel the vibes. You know, there was nothing that Mike was doing, per se, the days that I was there. But you could look around and see people's body language, you can see their lack of interest in what was coming from him. It just was obvious, right? What he did to get them there?

I don't know. They were losing, and, like, you know, losing makes everything more miserable. So the proof will be in two things as I see it. Like, if the Knicks hit a tough stretch, like, our vibes still really high. And then if we're being honest, like, what does Mike Brown do late game? like you did what the, you know, the Pacers, situationally,

throughout the course of a playoff run that either allows them to overcome and achieve some of their goals or underachieves, right? And that'll be, that'll be the determinant factor because we could say what we want, but Tibbs had them in a really good spot last year. They just didn't get over to home. Yeah, it's, it's a lot to prove. That's why I say it's a small sample size, right?

Like, I mean, part of it, like I just said, like there was some burn out there in his last days in Sacramento. And also like, I remember my first time that I ever seen Mike Brown was like my first day ever like interning. I was like, it was like during the lockout year. And the Lakers were up in Sacramento. And I went to the game and I went to the shoot around. This was like to start the season, Roger. Remember when they had you were, you play, they had the back to back to back.

He had shootarounds all all back to back to backs. Oh, you remember that right? So, hey, listen, if you, let me just say that's not to interrupt you. You want a motherfucker to check out on you. Go back to back to back shoot around. Bro. He had COVID. We ain't listening to nothing.

I ain't listening to nothing else you got to say. I'm trying to go back to sleep, bro. Like, I just came back from, I just came from L.A. to sack, bro. We got in late. I'm trying to go to the, I'm trying, what are you talking about? Why are we even here? Right. But you mentioned the bench, and I want to stay on that really quick before we go to the next segment.

from what you've seen from New York's bench, do you believe that at this point, if they continue this trajectory of whatever they're going, does that kind of quell your concern on the Brunson question, which is at the end of the season, we give him too much responsibility, and he's pretty much our only offense, or at least our only point of offense in April in June,

or April May-ish, like where, I mean, I know there's, there's cat and there's bridges, but it, you know, the ecosystem is around Brunson at all times. Does that quell your concern at all? I mean, yeah, a little bit, but no, they are a Jalen Brunson Stetrick people. Yeah. Like that's what they are. You know, SGA is the straw that's Thursday drink in, you know, Oklahoma City. There are teams that are built like that where if you're, yeah, it would be great if Kat or OG or Jordan Clarkson or the rest of that, whoever can come in and win us games when Jalen Brunson is not playing great. But the reality is if Jalen Brunson isn't playing great through stretches of time,

the same way as SGA isn't playing great through extended stretches of time, it makes it exponentially harder for y'all to win games. So, yeah, I think the fact that you have more general playmakers and guys that can get a bucket on that second unit, it certainly helps and alleviates, you know, some of the pressure for him to have to do that night tonight. But let's make no mistake. Like, that's the way they play.

Yeah. We'll see. The Knicks are fascinating and they will always be fascinating and I can't wait to talk about them more. And on the next segment, we're going to talk about one of me and Roger's favorite subjects. Crash outs in the NBA. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by FanDuel. Tis the season to be boosting on FanDuel because this year you're getting seven straight days of holiday rewards. Every day brings a new way to play. So keep checking in to see what drops next. And it all leads to the Christmas Day special where you can get something extra special, seven days. of gifts one big finale head to fanduil.com slash ringer MBA to get in the holiday spirit fan duel play your game but see 21 years and older and president select states an 18 and older in president dc Kentucky or Wyoming opting required bonus issued is non withdrawable profit boost tokens restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount see terms of sportsbook fan duel dot com got a gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rg dash help.com call 1 888 789 777 or visit cc pg

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Dylan Brooks's week of crashouts um most recently and roja has just seen the footage so i'm very curious to see what he thinks about what happened last night where step curry is trying to shoot a three and um Dylan Brooks hit him in the hit him in the gut and uh Curry later described the action as wild. It was on a three-point shot. Dylan Brooks got called for a flagrant. Steph Curry called it Bush League

and Wild. The Warriors were down five. He just went to go shoot a three. He got hit, fail down. Dylan Brooks's reaction to this was hilarious, though. He said, I thought he was going to run

and try to get a rebound, so I tried to stop him. But I've been lifting too much. Doing what other guys are doing and lift on a game day, It's just, I don't know how to explain it. I just got to figure it out next game so I don't do anything to put our team in a bad spot,

which is good. You know, he's lifting weights. He's self-reflective. Very, you know, very measured from Dylan Brooks here. And this was a couple days after he got into it with LeBron, which I didn't really trip off the LeBron one as much. I just thought, you know, like he got on LeBron's face.

We kind of need a villain in the league. I think more and more, though, Dylan, is playing well this season. I think he's averaging like 20 a game. He's really like supplement in your offense. He's doing really well. He's really hooping. He's really hooping.

But this is the thing with Dylan Brooks is that the antics always overcome the hooping because he is legitimately, no matter what you say about his antics, a really good defender and a pretty decent offensive player. But this tends to happen with him. Roger, do you think this is a reputational outrage that we have on Dylan Brooks or do you think it's warranted? Based on what you just saw. Yeah, like that's not a crazy foul.

I mean, did he need to do that? No. Like, was he trying to hurt anybody? No. I mean, it's just an antagonistic, like, foul. You know what I mean? Like, he clearly likes to be in that space. Like, that does something for him, you know, emotionally.

I don't know. Like, there was no need to do it. It was just, you know, it wasn't like a thing where he tried to, like, break his leg or or or or or or or or anything like that he's just kind of chopped them across like the chest midsection you know i i got mixed emotions on it like dylan first of all like we're brand building here right like dylan brooks is never going to be a stepf curry brand for the NBA or a lebron brand for the NBA um you know so like he's trying to carve out a lane or himself in some regard right like kudos to him and to your point he's playing really really good basketball

Like he has continued to develop a skill set And he's doing more and more in terms of like his bad work and ability to score a bucket But, but, you know, that's kind of his lane is that antagonistic You know, past going to be in some dumb shit and we're talking about him today, right? So like, you know, I could kind of a win for him if we're being honest like that's But but like some people's job on teams is to be that antagonist and like just be in some shit with everybody and and you know he relishes kind of that role I I like that rule a little bit like I was you know um you know that that's my job is to be out there he's got

more offensive responsibility than I did but like my job was to see if I could get however I could like your best player to be more worried about what I was doing than what they needed to do So a couple of things that come to mind. One, like, like Dylan Brooks is who he is. Like, it's fine. Like, I, I honestly evolved my thinking on Dylan Brooks from when he was with the Grizzlies versus when he is now because also, the fact of the matter is teams need this. Like, they don't need like the, you know, necessarily like the, you fucking up other players

and getting flagrids and putting your team in jeopardy, which he did catching a flagrant that time in the game. And more than anything, it just wasn't a smart play more than just being like a, dirty play. Um, but you do need somebody to kind of rev you up. And it like, I feel like with Dylan and just, I've been around him a little bit. Um, I've seen him in Houston. Um, obviously seen him in Memphis, but for the most part, it seems like it's a persona that comes on on the court. Because he's a relatively nice guy when you're, when he's off. He's, he's very, you know, smart when he talks. Like, he's, he gives you time, you know, I'm only speaking this from a media member, but like he, you It seems like he's a very nice person.

But when he comes on the court, you could tell he's doing the antics. He's doing the stuff. He's like yelling. He's like looking at people like trying to gain an edge, right? And that is what it is. The other thing that comes to mind is like when you talk about the reputation and what it does for someone, whether it's fair or unfair, I think one of the things that he has to deal with on this stale is like, Like, he has to, on one hand, he has to play with that edge, but also now that edge is being used against him

when he is an important player for that team. He's like, he's the second best player on the Phoenix Suns right now, bar none. Like anytime you watch them, he's doing really good. And he is a leader in that team. I don't know what the balance is for him at this point because every little thing that he does, every like shouting match, anytime he tries to gain an edge,

which by the way he was doing against the Lakers, right, and was doing against Golden State, he can't kind of, he can't pull back, right? Because that's what makes him good. But I don't know what he does from here because he's going to continue to, because now we're invested at him being, quote, unquote, a crash out. We're invested not only like we are as like viewers,

but the Bleacher Report alerts, right? anytime Dylan Brooks does anything, it's right on our phone. So I feel like the league in its apparatus is invested in him being an asshole. What do you do when that on one hand is like the league's perspective? And then you also have to be a basketball player that's effective for your team. And the way that you're effective is gaining an edge. How do you, I don't know how you navigate that. Yeah.

Well, it's pretty simple. are you know i don't know that our employer and we want to hear this or any other media outlet or any fan but dylan bruce does not give a fuck whether it comes up on your bleach or report feed or your fucking spotify like he don't care like he didn't turn it a random fan thinks he's that crash out like he doesn't give a fuck so like that's how easy it is right like you go out there and you do what you do he's in character to your point right like there's a wwee in this to this if this makes sense

Like he goes out, right? And he gets in that locker room and he shows up and he's got a job to do. And he's got a persona to be for his team. And he flips into character and he goes to work. And, you know, the balance is an interest in one to me, Logan, because I kind of talked about to be that guy. If you don't have otherworldly gifts, sometimes you have to go to a place that brings you very, very close to that line. and you will, the line will blur on you at times and you'll find yourself across that line. And you just hope that when you cross that line, it doesn't cost your team in a way that you become,

you know, the villain to them. Because in their world, you're not a villain. Like you are, you are their guy. You are their kind of backbone and you are their tone setter. And so as long as you're being mad for them, you're not a villain. Now, if you cost them something that really means something to them by those actions, you could become a villain to them and to your fan base. But nobody in Phoenix is hating on villain bruce.

No, I think he's, honestly, I think he's endearing himself to Phoenix. And specifically, I think about Phoenix and what they're doing right now. I didn't think Phoenix was going to be this good at all. And they're well-coached and they have dudes. And I bet you, you know, there's a portion of the Houston fan base that he's endeared himself to when he was there. Same with Memphis. Like, you don't like him when he's not on your team, but when he's on your team, he's yours.

Right? And so you ask me about the crash outedness of it all. Nobody really cares, bro. Like, that's Dillie Brooks didn't turn into that yesterday. Like Dillon Brooks has played this style of basketball with this level of back and forth and just overall, you know, antagonism. His whole life. That's who that's who he's been. So he's not really tripping off of that. Fans don't like it because he's into it with your favorite superstar. That's your problem. That's not a Dylan Brooks. You know, like Dylan's. I'm That's what he does. It's, when you said the thing about, though, like where you want to, you want to endear yourself to the fan base and you don't want them to, like, turn against you. I think that's, I think that's what happened. And it kind of colored my thinking of Dillon Brooks early in his career because that's what happened in Memphis, right? Like, he lost them up. Arguably was one of the reasons why they lost that, that playoff series against the Warriors. just because of his play

fucking broke Gary Payton's arm, right? And he made some really dangerous plays and it overshadowed how good he was that season, particularly their record on and off, when Jai was on and off the floor that season, being so good is because of Dylan, in large part because of Dylan Brooks that season. But I think he has evolved now.

And I think that, you know, we're still holding, I think we are still holding that against him, right? Like, I think in Houston, they loved him for that reason that you speak of, right? Especially because Houston at that time was like us against the world. We're this young team. We don't give a fuck. We're about to try to beat all of you guys and you guys don't believe in us. And he kind of fed into that.

Kind of same deal here in Phoenix. So I'm not tripping. It's funny, it was funny to see your reaction in the break, though, when we were talking about when I was like, what happened with Dylan Brooks? And you said, this wasn't that fucking bad. It's fine. Relax, guys. Yeah, that was, I mean, listen, full disclosure, I was flying all last night,

so I didn't get to see the game live. Like, I saw some of the Pacers next. But, yeah, dude, that's not like an egregious, what was it called for? No, like, he did not need to do that. It was a dumb play. I think it was a dumb decision. Yeah. It was stupid.

And I, listen, I would, I mean, I, I know you're more attached to Golden State than I am just as a, you know, as a media member and stuff like that. I'd be really interested if you pulled the Memphis Grizzly fan base on who Dylan Brooks was to then to hear if they found him to be the cost of a potential like championship run or overall the feedback was positive. I'd lean towards the second. I bet that more people in that fan base like really F with what he did there than blame him for not, you know, being able to win a championship in Memphis. Especially as it relates to Golden State because they do not fuck with Golden State. Memphis. I'll tell you that right now. Yeah, man. Child Dylan Brooks. There's another thing that I would like to bring to your attention. I'm not sure if you saw it over the week. But the NBA Cup is,

the league is considering moving the NBA Cup final to Cameron Indoor Stadium next year in Durham, North Carolina, at the site of Duke University, because they have a year-to-year lease with the T-Mobile arena. I got three questions for you on this. Do you like the suggestion? What's the coolest place you've ever played a basketball game? And where would you want to see a basketball game played? Um, I mean, why chammer an indoor stadium?

See, why? I don't. I think that this shows that the league is flailing at this point and they're just trying to find any type of interest for this. it doesn't make sense on the face when you talk about in terms of travel, right? Because like, in terms of like, for everyone involved, for the teams involved,

because Durham is just not a place you really go to, right? As an NBA team, unless it's the preseason. Vegas is just, say what you want about Vegas. Vegas is very easy to get to. It's one of the few places in America where you can get to Vegas from literally anywhere. And then, like, you want more, just from a media standpoint,

you want more media at your games, it's really fucking hard to get to Durham, North Carolina, and like your fans to get to Durham, North Carolina. But I guess they want everybody in front of the Dukies, right? I don't know this suggested. It doesn't really make sense to me. You know, Cliff likes it more than I do. But that's my real.

It just seems like the league is flailing and wants to do anything to get drum up interest for the NBA Cup. So I think that's what it is. So first time I heard of it, like our initial reaction is that sounds stupid to me. I don't know It holds 9000 people Like I don't I don't know Why camera of all the

I mean I get it's a look The like maybe just have the crazies come to like root them on And like just have like a fucking raucous ass environment But they're not cheering for anything right Like the Dukes They're not incentivized to be as crazy as they normally are For like the NBA Cup like I got I don't know

I would have loved to have played in Cameron It is a bucket list type of place for me I'd still love to go see a game there at some point but like having the NBA Cup there, I don't know why that makes sense for the NBA Cup. You know, as far as craziest places, coolest places I played,

I think the coolest place I ever played was a preseason game. It was us against the Denver Nuggets, the Suns against the Denver Nuggets. And we played outdoors at, in Palm Springs, California, in one of those tennis venues.

Did you guys play where they play the, what's the shit called damn it's the one is it Indian Wells? Indian Wells was that where Indian Wells was yep I'm pretty sure I don't quote me but I think it was where Indian Wells was and they laid a court out and

it was beautiful the day we got there you know vibes were high and the next morning we went to shoot around and it was freezing it was the worst basketball it was it was crazy it was windy it was cold I don't know it's like we're going to the cup fuck everything

fuck the offense we're going to the up. It was awful. Well, super cool. Like, it was, it was, uh, it was really cool. Some of my favorite places to play, um, college of Charleston back in the day when I, uh, when I was in college, they were our rival at FIU. They had a stadium that like Sports Illustrated did like ranking college environments or

college theirs was like in the mix with Cameron indoor. The fans were like right on the baseline and right on the sideline. So it was a really, really cool place to play. They were always raucous. They were like a top 25 program. The pit in New Mexico, we played there. Oh, I heard about the pit. The pit was like shaking.

It would get so loud in that bad way. Isn't it one of those things where it's not underground, but it's like one of those things where it's underground? Yeah, it's built down. Yeah, it's built down. And like the fans are like literally on top of you, similar to Utah, but like just on steroids because they're literally like, you know who else was like that

Vieira in San Diego State you know what I'm talking about where it's just like you go all the way down as those red seats it's really intimidating yeah um this one was they had uh they had a cat named Charles Smith and then they had Kenny forget what Kenny's name was he played for the Rockets Kenny Thomas maybe Kenny Thomas so they were they were good as tough place to play that building was crazy

and then um I played in Rupp like one of my first road trips as a freshman was um was Rupp Arena They had, they were good, man. Aren't they like 23,000? It's a lot of people going to rep, right? Listen, I had never B.U. We played in the little gym. The teams that we had played up until that point were all, like, relatively, I mean, we played Providence, but that place wasn't rocking to come see BU.

We got to damn Kentucky, and the sea of blue hit me. I don't know that my, it was outer body experience for the whole three hours we were there, though. Like, I don't even remember playing in the game. You was playing out of your body, huh? You just like, oh, what the fuck? It was crazy. No, that was crazy. Those were three.

I'm trying to think of anywhere else that I got to go. I mean, we played in Chrysler or whatever in Michigan's. I played some pretty cool places, but those three were probably the best. That's what's up? Every time I'm thinking, like, what's the best place I've watched a basketball game? It's, like, typically a basketball arena, and I feel, like, weird about that. Because, I mean, like, I want to, like, have something like, but you know what a cool one was? I got to go to, I got to go to UCLA.

and watch their runs. And that was fucking crazy because I'm not going to say to players. And I'm not going to say that because I don't want to, like, you know, out myself on that. But, like, you see, like, player X that you watch in an L.A. fitness type of environment. And you realize how much better they are than, like, the average immortal, especially when they're playing against, like, other professionals. It's one, like, there was a, I don't know if you saw this. There was a clip that was, like, circulating in social media. where you see Quinn Cook going to LA

finish out of Quinn Cook. I covered him a couple of years. He's a good dude. But like he's going up against like normal people, right? And he's just like, just fucking with him. Like he'll cross them over and like hit a jump shot. But it's one thing to like see like the disparity in talent.

But when everybody is good running pickup, it's different. It was just like you see the athleticism up front. And that was and I got to just sit on a baseline. It was super cool. I got to see one of your favorite players, Raj. And I'll just leave it. at that one of your all-time favorite players

that you always bring up on this podcast. I got to see him play. And he was, he's insane on television already, but to see him in a, like, LA fitness type setting. Not, it wasn't L.A. Fitness. It was UCLA's, like, gym that's a famous type of pickup run. But to see him just, like, just donk on people talking shit.

And it was the first time when I saw this person, like, you see the persona of this person. And then you see, like, how he is around normal people that he fucks. with and you were like oh okay like he's actually like i see why people actually like rock with him and so that was really cool to go watch them play at UCLA and like a setting or was away from an arena because you really appreciate NBA players or professionals when you see them in like relatively normal settings do really crazy abnormal shit that was cool no doubt no doubt i will throw

i will throw one more um i did not like playing in this place but because i grew up as a big east basketball fan and you know I'd watch so many games we played mellow uh in the carrier dome I think the Suns we played we played mellow in a preseason game we played up there I think AI was on the team too so we played them in the carrier door was crazy was it like a hundred thousand people or 80,000 people there did they all no no because like I mean they don't show all like that for preseason NBA so it wasn't like a rocking rocking I mean it was pretty packed but I don't think it was one of their larger crowds but just that that that venue the way they set it up You know, the way they chop it.

I never shot well in places like that. So I didn't love it. What's the debt perception on a, fuck it, on an arena like that? Listen, the only other experience I had was playing in the Alamo dome, trying to make the Spurs team. And we went out there. I knew I probably wasn't getting into any of those games. Like, but it didn't fucking matter because if I did, I wasn't making a shot in there.

I was hard to do that. It's weird about the baritas, bro, because like Houston's like that. Because everyone ever go to Toyota Center, like, you really got to like look. because they have like a crazy backdrop of seats. So the, uh, the, weirdly the rim looks like further than it actually is.

So sometimes you got to like, you feel, I've shot at Toyota Center and you feel like you got to just like throw that thing all the way to the backboard and hopefully that shit goes in and maybe it's a switch. But it's just weird like that. Did you ask, did you see where you want to see a game played? Where do you want to see a game play?

Uh, yeah. You've kind of been all over the world. Yeah, I'd love to see one in Cameron. Um, I'd like to go to. one of those big, like,

Euroleague games, like one of those. I was just going to say that. Like, Raim Madrid against, like, Barser or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I wanted to go see one of those. I don't know, man, there are a few arenas. Like, I'd like to see some of the newer, you know, NBA arenas that I haven't seen, you know, that'd be dope. I'd like to see,

who's got the newer one? Sacto, I'd like to see Golden States. Yeah, the clip, the Clippers new spot? What is it into it? Into it? And probably going to be the cheapest

arena in the league. She was the ticket. It's probably like, you know me, most of my venues are football. Like, I want to see, I like to see football game. Most of my dream, like, spectating experience would be college football games. Well, hey, hey, your boy is going to go to the, is going to be in the SEC. So maybe what, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go to watch a game at LSU.

Something like that. Been to one already. But yeah, that's a place. Was that crazy? Was that crazy? That probably was fucking nuts. LSU shit was nuts. It's 100 and some thousand.

outside, but outside that would never go in because they're just tailgating and then on getting some inside. It's crazy. You know, Cliff just put a great idea in the chat. Nicks and Nets at the Rucker. That would never happen logistically. That could literally never happen. But preseason fives.

Yeah, or like maybe like NBA Street, you know, maybe something like that. Leave that in the past. Let's take a quick break. And we are going to get to Real One of the Week. We are back. Rogers Googling because this is always a pop quiz even though we've been doing this for almost six years and every Friday we do ruin of the week.

I'll start it off. This, my ruin of the week is going to go to one Alonzo Carter, friend of the show. He has been brought up a lot on this show. He coined the phrase, get show feelings out the shit. He is now the head coach of Sacramento State football. He was an assistant at Arizona, the head assistant, and he took a job at Sacramento State.

And I went to the press conference yesterday, Raja, and it was a sight to behold. I would have blew you out myself to watch this one. He had a 30-minute monologue, and everybody was there. He talked about how everybody is put on notice throughout the whole conference. He's coming for everybody's recruit, how he's going to make Sacramento State. the USC of where he's at. He's going to make it a national program. He said he's going to every nook and cranny of America. He talked about he cut the president off when the president said he was from Oakland. He said, uh-uh, I'm from West Oakland. Get it straight. I'm like, oh, the entire

Oakland contingency was in this small press conference room. It was so funny because he brought everybody out and everybody, you know when somebody from the town coming, we're going to make this spot our own. So there was a delegated section for media. No, we sat up in that shit. We all sat up in there. It was hell of funny because shout out Coach Terry from Costa College because they asked for members of the media to raise their hand for if they had a question. And he raised his hand to ask Coach Carter a question about mental health. And it threw Coach Carter, Like, you're not a media. Remember, you're one of the contingency of the people that came with me.

What are we doing? But it was hilarious. Cozo is about to be, I don't know what's going to happen, but it's going to be entertaining as hell. Roger is somehow we're going to have to bring you to a game. He's commissioning everybody from Marshawn to Marcus Peters to Ryan Coogler to take their ass on the sideline. We might need Roger Belted to help out with a recruiting visit. But anyway, Coach Carter is my real one of the week. That was fun.

Harder, reping Piedmont to the fullest, Doug. Piedmont's finest. Roz, that's not funny, bro. That's not funny. That's really not funny. Come on, no, no. It's not. That's not.

No, that's awesome. No, like all jokes aside. Not it is. Pretty cool. You know, my real, I'll keep, I'll keep a college football with you. Like, real one of the week is going to go to the newly minted Heisman winner. It's Fernando Mendoza, who, uh, is, from Miami is a 305 Christopher Columbus High School.

Yeah, you know, I'm tapped into high school football and I knew he was a good player in high school, but like most of the college coaches that weren't super interested in him coming out, I did not know how good he was. And he's got a really cool story. And it resonates with me because I had a very similar story coming out. Like not many people believed in him. Not many people gave him the opportunity that he wanted, but he took the one that he had and he just kept grinding and believing and making the most of it.

And I thought his message was important, which was to keep working. You can do it. Like, keep working and keep believing in yourself until you find someone who believes in you and gives you that opportunity. He did that. He made the most of it. About to be the probably first pick in the NFL draft. Good luck to him in the college football playoffs.

But 305's own, Fernando Mendoza, Heisman, Real One. Is he going to look good in silver and black? Yeah, I mean, listen, I I don't, is it Does anyone look good in silver and black? I don't know. I think I think I think everyone aesthetically looks great in silver and black

Well, silver and black. There's a team look good. It's all we have right now is great colors. But I mean, you know, I'm on the fence. We probably, honestly, we probably should just go get a lineman, dude. We should trade down and get alignment. Um, because we would put him in a body bag if he fucking goes about on our own line right now. Um, also another real one real quick.

Uh, Nicola Yokin. who became at age 30, the all-time assist leader among sinners. He got that at 30. He broke Kareemem Abdul-Jabbar's record. For context, Kareem-Abaud-Jabbar played till he was 41. And it took half the time for Yolkits to get that record. Fucking sidework. Shout out to Nicola Yolkid.

Shout out to all the Real ones worldwide, man. Rulins, my back at gmail.com. Rolensmail back at gmail.com. Rulwamble at gmail.com. I'm stalling because Rogers is going to get mad at me. because he has to go on a roller coaster and he's getting madder by the second right now. No.

Uh-oh. We'll just have, you're good, bro. I mean, we can keep a roll. We just have Kaya come in as bad, but she can be jumping on the beds. Like,

as long as the listeners are good with that, we're straight. It's okay. My niece is good. It's fine. She's fine. You know what I mean? It's all good.

It'd be good to see her. She's probably might be the only one that hasn't been on the podcast or some favorite form. We had Ty Bell on the podcast with Steph Curry was here. He didn't want to say nothing, but it was cool. He was...

So Ty Bell, a quick story. Ty Bell was 42 points away from 1,000 career points in high school for his last home game before we came to Vegas. He told me, yeah, I'm going to get it. I'm like, there's no fucking way you're getting it. And started off pretty slow. And then had 36th with two and a half minutes to go in the game. And I thought he was going to get it. And his coach kind of shut him down, which I appreciated it.

Because at that point the game was kind of out of hand, and I didn't want him looking like an A-hole chasing the thousand. But, like, pretty cool. So he's about to hit a thousand points. If he scores six tomorrow, or tonight, he's got a thousand career points. Dog. Really in his sophomore season. So pretty cool.

Sorry, Cliff. He's not going to Temple, bro. It's not happening. I'm sorry. He's not. I hope he comes to the West Coast. That would be cool. Just selfishly, I'm trying to watch him play.

I don't know if Rajah wants that to happen, but it's cool. Anyways, no. I'm down with whatever. Okay. Shout out. Let's go. Let's go. Let's get it.

Let's get it. I got it. I'm going to tell you this story offline. See you guys Tuesday. Me and Howard Brother fucking Beck. Happy holidays. Have a good primer to your holidays. We'll see you next week.

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