The Ringer NBA Show - How Much Does Coaching Matter? The Cavs' and Lakers' Hot Start to the Season. | Real Ones

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

Howard and Raja are back to dive into a loaded start of the NBA regular season. They kick things off with a chat about Dwyane Wade’s Miami Heat statue and Joel Embiid’s continued absence (04:00). Then, they discuss Steph Curry’s ankle injury and where the Warriors go from here (22:00). They follow that up with a discussion of coaching impact on the hot starts of the Cavs and Lakers (38:00). Later, the guys answer your mailbag questions, read by producer Kerm (46:30). Email us your mailbag questions at [e-mail]. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Howard Beck and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 songs that explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J-Lo, Kanye, sure. And now the show is called 60 songs that explain the 90s, colon the 2000s. Wow.

That's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s, in the 2000s, preferably on Spotify. It's the real ones. Howard Beck, senior writer at The Ringer, back in Brooklyn, back from a week in L.A. He is Raja Bell, still in Miami. We're back to doing this thing via video so that Raja doesn't have to be freaked out by me being

in studio without those little boxes on the screen. We're back to Riverside, our favorite platform. Much more intimate, Howard. I felt like I was being interviewed, like much, much, much. I appreciate this so much more. No, this is better. Anyway, you're back to just being a few inches tall on my screen as opposed to like larger than life on an entire flat screen TV in the studios in L.A.

It was a great week in L.A., though. We had Core Week at the Ringer, not to be confused with arms week, legs week. This was not about our cores. This was just about getting together. It's kind of a summit. It was cool. I got to, as you saw last week, if you watched this on video, I got to hang out with producer Kerm.

we met in person for the first time ever. I met former producer Kai for the first time ever. Got to geek out with my favorite Ringer music podcasters, Rob Harvilla and Yassie Selleck. They were very kind to let me just kind of like just geek out on music stuff for a while. Hung out with our whole NBA crew, Mahoney and Waz, Varyer, Syrett, Pina, Zach Cram, Danny Chow, met Tyler Parker. He's got a great story up today on the Ringer about toilets at the Intuit Dome. go read Tyler Parker on toilets people that sounds like the best time ever

no real talk it was it sounds like a blast I didn't get the fucking invite you should you should have you should have been there apparently you are not part of the core enough for core week Raja Kerm shorter shorter than he comes off on the river side for sure right he the first thing he did was dunk on me

oh shit just just to prove a point also because of all of our Laker takes. Weirdly, Logan and I, the first time we met was in Vegas, the show kind of got canceled because of the tragedy out there. And then we wound up meeting in the hotel room. And it was like one of the first things we did was like height measure. He wanted to make sure that I knew he was like 6-3. All right, well, all right.

How tall are you, Raj? I'm 6'5. Okay. So you got a little on. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, no, we do shrink with age. It's a sad thing. Anyway, amazing week in LA for Core Week. By the way, I also got to see a screening of the new Ringer film, Yacht Rock. I think it's coming out in a few weeks here. People go check it out. You do not have to love Nadooby Brothers or Michael McDonald or Staley, Dan, although maybe it helps.

It was just a really cool, awesome film. We got to see a screening of that. So that's coming out soon. Just a fun week. Sorry you couldn't be there, Raja. Yeah, maybe. I mean, it could have got lost in like an email. It's possible. Or two that I don't read or maybe I just didn't get it. But I'll be working really hard to earn that invite for next year. I hope we do it again. It was awesome.

It should be an annual thing. Raja, in your neck of the woods, as a residence of the greater Miami area, you guys got a really cool new statue this week. Have you seen the Dwayne Wade statue? Have you seen photos or video of the Dwayne Wade? statue. Have you seen memes about the Dwayne Wade statue? Yeah, I've seen it all. But like all like seriously, how do you get it that wrong? Like how when that's being made? How does someone not say, hey, let's let's scrap that? Like is there not like a like a clay or paper macha fucking mold made before they make it out of bronze? Like no one stopped this man at some point or or woman and said, hey, that's not it. So I will say after we've had wave after wave after wave of jokes. criticism, people asking the same question you are like, how in the year 2024? Can we not get this right? Duane Way did say, I think at a press conference with Miami Media, that he was part of the process the whole time. He signed off on every step of the way and that, no, it doesn't necessarily

look like, you know, angle for angle like his face, but that it is a representation of him and of a feeling of a moment. And that it was more like the spirit of the moment that was more important. than I guess the accuracy of his facial contours. I would, first of all, great. You should run for some sort of office down here at South Florida, D-Waid. You'd be great. Secondly, that lives, like, theoretically forever outside of the Miami arena, or whatever the hell they call it now, dude.

Like, I'm all for celebrating the moment and whatnot, but that, we can't do that. That can't go up. I'm going to celebrate the moment. I need to look a little bit more like me. It's rough. Listen, God forbid anybody ever wanted to make a statue of me. I don't think that is any danger of happening.

But if it did, something that you think is going to live forever or for at least decades. I mean, if it doesn't look like me, but it looks better. Like if it looks like George Clooney, but it says my name, I guess that's fine. But Dwayne Wade, the statue has been compared to, among others, Lawrence Fishburn, seal, the singer. I saw that, yeah. Antoine Walker Four is better than threes

I think I saw reference to like one of the mummy movies Kelsey Grammer Fraser Han Solo and Carbonite That's a that's a given I thought the best one The best comparison was Rocky 4

The trainer Apollo Creed's trainer yelling throw the damn towel Phenomenal Right before Yvon Drago kills him Spoiler alert. Yeah. I looked it up, by the way. The actor's name was Tony Burton.

He was an actual boxer before acting. He died in 2017 to age 78. But incredible iconic moment in Rocky movie history. That was my favorite comparison for the Dway. Yeah. I mean, congrats to D. Wade. Real talk. Congrats, dude.

But like, that's really hard. That's really hard for me to believe. Like, I know this is, this sounds very, just very basic, man. but I cannot wrap my head around how it is that far off. And we're allowing that to happen and be put up in front of it. I just don't get it. You know, before I left L.A., I stayed an extra day so I could see Laker's sons, your Phoenix sons, Rajabelle, Friday night at what I will still call Staples Center.

And they've got, of course, like an entire army of statues out there now, right? Like Shaq, Kobe and Jerry West and Chick Hearn and, I don't know, hockey guys. Wayne Gretzky, I believe. and some other folks. And I didn't spend a lot of time out there, but it was the first time I got to see the Kobe statue. And like, yeah, these all look like the designated people. I mean, in the ballpark at minimum.

It's possible to actually possible to do. We have the technology. And it was also just interesting, Roger, like I was, because, you know, we go there early. When your media, you know, go, you know, two, three hours before the game, the number of people just down in that plaza and especially the number of people just taking their photos with the Kobe statue. I mean, it's what you would expect, but still, I guess I just hadn't, I hadn't been there since.

And between that and some, you know, some booths or whatever just stands set up a block or two from the arena where people are selling all kinds of stuff, the amount of just Kobe tributes, Kobe merchandise is just overwhelming. It feels like to an extent like it's still, like we're still living through the memorial there. I don't want to get too dower. but it just it was interesting like the Kobe phenomenon and the Kobe just people missing him the adulation everything is still very very active and palpable when you're walking to Staples Center you like you can't help but feel that so that was that was interesting I hadn't been there in a while for regular season games so it was notable um roger we've got a week of games so far in the can

It's time for everybody to wildly overreact to three, four games. Our buddy Michael Pina has a column of overreactions up on the ringer.com right now. Go check that out. I did not want to do the overreaction thing. I'm going to wait for us to decide on what conclusions we're drawing after another, I don't know, week, two, three, maybe a month. It's cool. Like, I like it. It's fun.

It's part of the discourse. It's what we do. Freak out over one week. Rather than that, I had a few other things I wanted to throw at you. Let's start with Joelle Embed because Joel Embedde hasn't played a game. He didn't play any preseason games either. And this is the list of news that Joel and Beat has already made since Media Day in late September a month ago. On Media Day, he said he's lost 25 to 30 pounds, tends to keep going because he wants to be able to play more, be healthy.

Says he's not going for the MVP or other individual stuff, just wants to win championships. wants to make sure he's healthy for the postseason. Proceeded to not play any preseason games. That was what they were calling left knee injury management because he had meniscus surgery on that knee back. I think it was January or February. Played no preseason games. Played no regular season games as of this taping.

Three games so far, Philly's one and two. The Sixers are under some sort of NBA investigation about whether or not they're following the participation rules and reporting on Joelle Embedde's health. So there's that. Then the NBA did penalize Embed for not that, but for waving a towel during an Andrew Nemhard free throw in a game in which Embedde was not playing.

He got a technical foul for that. Oh, and in midst of all this, Embed told ESPN, quote, if I had to guess, I would probably never play back-to-backs the rest of my career. That then triggered wave after wave. Shack ripped him on his podcast. Chuck ripped him.

Philly Inquirer had a column that was ripping him. Nick Wright on Fox went into a whole rant for like 10 minutes about the state of the NBA and all kinds of stuff. Rest load management and fans and stuff. Everything. Everything's broken. We're not even five games into the season yet. That is the list of topics and headlines that Joel Embed has spurred. I don't want to get to a whole load management debate necessarily.

Raja, I'm just more curious as we sit here waiting for Joel M. Bede, a recent MVP, an incredible player, a seven-time All-Star, a two-time scoring champ, while we're waiting for him to finally make his debut, and with the Sixers having told us very little about what exactly is going on, and with the NBA still presumably investigating, what do we make of Joel Embed at age 30 and where this is going, where he's been? How do you see Joelle Embed in the totality of his career and what he has at stake this season? He's an incredibly gifted talent, like in terms of size and skill and some of the things he does. Like, I mean, I've said before I have mixed emotions about some of the stuff he does outside off the court. You know, I think he's gotten better with that. But on the court, I don't think you can deny what he does, like individually. but it hasn't translated into anything. It hasn't translated into anything for the city or the franchise.

I mean, they're yet to play in an Eastern Conference final. Am I correct? Correct. So, like, so, you know, whether it be due to injury, which is part of your story. Like, I mean, people say you can't control the injuries and that's true, but you can't not factor it in when you're when you're deciding what someone's ultimate legacy is going to be because, you know, if it derails a career, then you don't have the opportunity to maybe make a,

to make a Hall of Fame in some people's cases or win those championships to give you, you know, top 50 or top 100 player recognition at the end of the day. And so as far as Joelle Embed is concerned, like he hasn't won at that level. And all of this, all of these physical gifts and this individual brilliance, we've pointed a lot of fingers, and there have been reasons, not necessarily excused. is there have been reasons, some of them outside of his control. But ultimately, when you're the best player on a team and you're the MVP, and you're the trust, the process, and you're supposed to bring that,

then it falls to you to do that. And up until now, he hasn't. Now, if he does, and, you know, they're not playing back-to-backs and everything that they're doing to try to make sure that he's healthy, you know, down the stretch in a way that can help him deliver on those. then we'll be having a different conversation and I'll have a different take on that. But as of right now, you ask me what my take on him is.

He is an incredibly gifted basketball savant for size and skill combination that for one reason or another hasn't been able to win at the highest level. Yeah, and there's so much that's, I think, held him back and he seems to take the brunt of it now. Like, to me, he's kind of weirdly polarizing. And the weirdly part of it is just because I don't,

I don't understand why he's so polarizing. I understand Sixer fans' frustration with, you know, him getting hurt in inopportune times. I understand frustration with anybody who just gets exasperated by load management and by not playing back to backs and that kind of. Like, I get it. I get it especially older, older fans, people of my generation and older who just, you know, or even your generation at older, Raja, who just came up at a different time when we didn't have as much sports science involved in the day-to-day decision making. I generally defer to the idea that, like, I don't know enough to know to be able to say whether Joelle and Bede should play back-to-backer-down.

That's way above my expertise in pay grade. If that's what Daryl Mory and he said that, you know, that was an organizational decision, I believe, too, if Daryl Mory and their sports science staff say this is what's needed to get Juelan Bid through a season to make sure that he is ready for April, May, and potentially June, I'm fine with that. I think where I disagree with some of the consensus criticism of Ambide is like, okay, yeah, they haven't been to the conference finals, but like, look at the, look at what's happened to the time that he's been there.

His own injuries aside, and he misses about a third of every season on average. But Ben Simmons, that's not Joella Bede's fault, the Ben Simmons catastrophe and the asking out and everything that happened. That's not on Ambid. Jimmy Butler not being retained by the Sixers. those guys loved to play together. That's not on Joel Embed. James Harden saying that Daryl Morey betrayed him or lied to him or whatever,

not on Joel Embed. And there are some series where you can look at Embed's performance. A lot of times he's been hurt. And if you want to say it's partially on Embed because he's not taking good enough care of himself for the rest of the year. Fair in some of those cases, not fair in other ones depending on which year or which injury. but I think it's strange. Maybe it's just because of the Rings culture thing, right? Maybe it's just we expect everything from these guys.

And it's like if you're an MVP caliber player or an actual MVP as he has been, we kind of just like demand, you know, championships, finals, appearances, all that. And if you don't, everybody just reverts to it or reduces it to being, it's your fault. And you've somehow failed. and you have not lived up to your potential. I don't see Embed that way, but he's 30 and he's turning 31 in March. He's definitely getting to that point

where you start to worry about how long of a window he's got to do those things. And that's clearly his focus too. So I don't know, I just, I want to throw that at you just because it's, it's this ever-changing picture of him and it does feel like, you know, the stakes are kind of high.

I don't know when he's going to play, but I assume that they're making sure that he's ready, but that he's going to make his debut when his knee is sound enough to withstand it. And listen, man, he could have another MVP season. Like, it's strange to me that we're fretting so much about him so early. But he hasn't played since last spring. Yeah, well, I mean, look, I don't fall into the camp of people that like,

you know, like I'm not hating on him or anything like that for him not being able. able to do that. But those are facts. Like, you know, when you ask, you know, how you view someone, you know, you can do it emotionally and get into like the way it makes you feel if like you're a Philly fan that he, you know, is injured a lot. And again, I don't know if that's, you know, to your point, I don't know if that's within his control or not. Some people are just injured and all that. I'm not really getting into that. I'm not a fan of the Sixers or anybody else really for that matter. So like, I'm just looking at it for like what, what you are as a physical specimen and a player, what the league thinks of you, what you've been able to do to the league numerically.

Like, and all of that is, those are like top player level stuff. And usually that just translates into a look into more success postseason than, then he's had. And, you know, again, you made some good points, like some things are out of his control. Like I look at him, like, who are the people like Charles Barkley, for instance, right? Like, Charles Barkley is one of the guys that you would say is one of the probably better players of all time that didn't win a championship and stuff like that. But Chuck was, I don't know how many times he was in the Western Conference finals, but I remember he was in the finals and he slugged it out with MJ in that way.

And, you know, even if you had that, I'd be singing a different tune. Like Steve Nash is another one, my buddy, like, you know, and he still goes down as one of the, I don't know, however many top point guards list you'd want to put him in. And that's fair, but we were in the Western Conference finals multiple times. You know, it was with him in Dallas there and then again with the Sons. And I think he went again with the Sons. And so like, you know, again, when we're asking how we feel about any player, I mean, I think, you know, you're talking about them specifically, but then you're also kind of slotting them as it relates to the other players and the other greats that have played. And so I just think that his size, talent,

skill level, like ability to kind of dominate when he wants around the rim should translate to more success. And that might be coming. But as of right now, it hasn't come. If you're his teammate and there's all of this coming and going, hurt, load management, all of this, how you think you'd be feeling if you're a guy who's trying to live off of M.B.'s success. No, you're going to, I mean, you're riding with Joel. Like, that's your guy. That's your brother. You know, you're, you guys are, you guys are bonded in a way that, that, you know,

I don't, I don't, I don't think you jumped shit because he was injured now. If I, that would all be predicated on the idea that I'm in there watching you work and know that you're putting forth the best effort to be available to us, right? If I can point to you not working hard and not taking care of yourself and now you're injured because of it, I might be singing a different tune as a teammate that was that was hitching my wagon to yours, right? But like, if you're making an earnest effort to go out there and hoop and you're in the right shape and I can see the work you're putting in because I'm sitting there right next to you, and for whatever reason, you're bit with the injury bug. Like, I can't hold that

against you. You know what I mean? Like, it could be frustrating, maybe, but like ultimately, I don't think I would be down on you as a teammate or human if that was, if that were the case. Yeah, I feel like in my experience, like, you know, Players get frustrated if they think a guy is dogging it somehow or is milking the injury or is like afraid to play through pain. Like not serious injury, but not medical staff directed rest, but more of a I don't, I think you're just, you're just not tough enough, mentally tough enough or physically. Like that's where I usually have heard it from players over the years. I've looked at dude sideways up for like rolled ankles. You know what I mean?

Like things like that where you're like, hey, man. you can play through that. That's just a little bit of pain tolerance. But like real injuries and stuff like that, yeah, we're pretty good about that. I mean, we know, you know, we're all, we're all doing the same work. We're all putting in the same amount. We all feel relatively the same when you get out there. So you know if someone's got like a true pulled groin.

Like, hey, man, there's not going to be a whole lot you can give us, you know, and nobody holds that against you. Yeah. No, it's interesting actually because, you know, just the other night, I was watching the Warriors when Steph turned his ankle. And you could see it was kind of bad. He goes to the sideline. He's doing a bunch of stuff with the resistance bands and he's trying to work it out.

He goes back into the game and then turned it and immediately like rolled it again. It wasn't turned. It was a roll. And by the second one, you're like, and this is why you don't go in, right? This is like, it's a fine line. When do you play through pain and say, screw it? I'm gutting it out. We want to win this game.

And when do you not? And Steph obviously would have been better off in this case, not. pushing it. Maybe it was bad enough that he's going to miss the same amount of time regardless, but man, rolling it twice in 10 minutes is ideal. Kyle Anderson's face when he rolled it the second time was like it, it was the expression of the sound you just made a second ago. It's like, ah, ha.

But, you know, weirdly Howard, I've never rolled my ankle. Like, Steph's got like notoriously bad ankles because I've never rolled my ankle and then rolled it again just because I rolled it a second time. You know what I mean? Like, so it's, it's, that's, that's one of those weird things. And Steph, you know, obviously at the beginning of his career, you know, there were issues and his ankles are, are kind of unique in that way. Like he, so when he rolls them, you know, he's probably probably, especially this early in the season, it's probably better to you rest those and just get back to 100%. Yeah.

Let's talk about the Warriors for a second. One of the things I thought was interesting in week one, Steve Kerr basically said this roster's too deep to start reducing the rotation. I'm going 12 deep. We're going 12 man rotation. This was this quote. This is as deep of a team as I've ever coached, and we've got to lean into that. I've never played 12 before,

but we're going to do it. I was thinking maybe we'll play just 10, and we'll have to tell two guys that they're going to sit, but I just couldn't do it. Steve Kerr did not have the heart to tell two guys they were out of the rotation. What?

It's not, I don't think it's forever. I think the idea is, you know, obviously they've got a lot of good talent, see what combinations of work. But, I mean, I just want to have too. I just want to be clear here, Howard. I'm sorry to interrupt,

but this is the same guy who told Jason Tatum, you couldn't find minutes for him in the, in the Olympics, right? I want to fucking make sure. You had to go there. Steve, I'm sorry, Steve. You know you're my guy, but this is the same person? You had to go there. Different situation.

That was the Olympics, gold medals, all that stuff. This is the beginning of an NBA. Come on. Stop. All right, all right, all right. Yeah, I mean, this is going to be relatively unique. I mean, I can't remember a team that I played on. where we ever tinkered around with going 12 deep.

I mean, you know, I've referenced, I played for, you know, the most outside the box thinkers, I think, were some of them. Like Don Nelson was ahead of his time in terms of, in terms of what he was willing to mess around and do. And even on his team, I've referenced before.

Like, I'd start half the games. And then, like, the other half, I did not play in those because Adrian Griffin would start the other half. Like, we were interchangeable. But there weren't many nights where both of us. plate. Do you know what I mean? So like we weren't we were going eight deep, whether it was him or me or maybe nine, maybe 10, but like 12 is unheard of. So but but it'll be interesting to see if he can, if he can if he can use that in a way early because, and this is interesting. I'm sorry, I know I'm taking

up a lot of the convoy here. But like this is interesting to me, Howard, because I always say like early in the season, you can just out work other teams, if you will. You can play harder than them. You can, You can compete in a way that that would give you an advantage against a team that doesn't have all their stuff dialed in or they're not fully in shape yet. And there is a world in where playing 12 live, young bodies in that space can actually help the case. The problem is solved if it is a problem in the short term here because now, of course, Steph did turn his ankle and is out for at least a few days, a few games possibly. we'll see where that goes.

And I think De Anthony Melton's banged up right now. So, and this is how things go too, right? Like sometimes these things solve themselves because guys just get hurt. Like, it's inevitable. But through three games, he's played 14. Like all 14 guys have logged like significant minutes. 12 are averaging at least 12 minutes a game. That includes five guys who are averaging 20 plus.

That's what you would normally expect, right? So Steph, Wiggins, Pods, Dremond, and Buddy Heald are all averaging 20 plus minutes per game. And then right behind them at 19 plus minutes per game is Cominga and Trace Jackson Davis. And then you've got all these guys who are averaging between 12 and 16. That's where you get the real depth of the rotation here. That's Milton, Moses Moody, GP2, and Kyle Anderson. So, like, everybody I just named are good rotation players. Like, I wouldn't want to cut any of those guys out of my rotation either.

and maybe that is an advantage early on where you're just, you know, you can just do line changes and always have a lot of fresh, very capable players out there. And especially when Steph is healthy, like, you know, if you've got enough guys, like Wiggins really came alive after Steph went down.

And so that was encouraging for them too, like, because you need somebody else to create offense on this team and that's been an issue. So, I don't know, even amid all that, I think there's some promising signs. So this is one of the reasons.

I had labeled the Warriors my most intriguing team, I think, last week when we were doing our preview, is this, there's a lot of good bodies. They don't have a lot of star power at the top, but they've got a lot of good bodies. Maybe there's a consolidation trade to make there at some point. But in the meantime, yeah, I mean, as long as they're going to stick with this, Roger, the last thing of this, as long as they do stick with 12-man rotation, just how hard is that for the guys who are, especially those, that 12 to 16-minute group where, that's not a huge amount of time per game. Like what's the risk and how difficult is it for players? Yeah, well, that's, you know, the psyche of the player, you know, it plays, plays heavily into whether you can get away with it as a coach or not, right?

And I think to some degree today's players kind of better with that, you know, it's a much more buddy, buddy culture, you know, like even from like grassroots basketball. So, you know, I think you might be able to sell that. that in a way to guys now that you couldn't sell maybe when I played. I also think it helps that they only do, they only have the one star, you know, like that gives a bunch of guys who probably aren't used to playing the lion's share of minutes, like opportunities to come in and split up a larger pie, so to speak, of minutes to go around. So, so I think there are, there are reasons why, you know, he can do that with that Golden State team. But as far as like what you're doing

on the court if you're one of those guys is, you know, you've got to wrap your mind around. There's no easing into any of these minutes. Like when you hit the floor, I mean, you have to be lock cocked and ready to rock because that's 12 to 16 over the course of four quarters. So, you know, we could be playing in two minutes stretches. We could be playing in three minutes stretches. Like there's just no time for us to hit the court, not be warm, not be ready to compete at the highest level.

And that takes some training when you've been on another team and you're maybe a rotational guy in a rotation of eight who's got a little bit more, you know, wiggle room when you hop in a game, time to get a little lather, get that first jumper kind of out of the way. Like, oh, shit, let me see what this is doing tonight. And I'm not really there. Like, that's a thing, right? And so learning to tune in, you know, mentally and emotionally to hit that, to hit the bricks ready to go. Hit the hardwood and you're already locked in. it could be challenging for some guys, particularly older, probably vets. But again, you know, stealing with younger players, I think it, you know, all of those factors

kind of like it's the perfect storm of circumstances for him to be able to tinker with this a little bit. I guess my last thought on this is just, I guess if there's a worry, it would be like with the young guys, right? Like, you know, Kyle Anderson's going to be fine regardless. He's a vet and he's been in every kind of situation. And Looney's been there for a long time. and he's, you know, been a championship player for them.

He's been a fringe, you know, rotation guy, just depending on year to year. D Anthony Melton's been around a bit. Peyton's been around a bit. But, like, I don't know, I always think, like the young guys, like, Coiminga is still trying to earn another contract. He didn't get his extension. Moody just got his extension, but still he's young and is trying to prove himself. Trace Jackson, Dave's. I guess I just wonder about, like, when you go in on short minutes, the thing I've heard from players over the years is that

Now it's like, you know, there's, you've got to show enough in those minutes to feel like you're earning it the next time too. And even though this is a league where everybody says, oh, just go out there, you know, keep the ball moving, play defense, play hard, do all the little things. Everybody's thinking about the box score. You're thinking about your numbers. And it's like if you go out there and you don't get enough shots up and you can't get a rhythm and you come out with like three points on, you know, one per five shooting in a five minute stretch and you think, oh, you know, shit is he going to. calling me again the next time. Right? Like that's that's the worry is like guys can't get a rhythm and guys feel pressure to go out and show something in short minutes. Yeah, for sure. And that's what I that's what, you know, when I said the psyche of the player, like that's exactly what I was

kind of all alluded to. Like, hey, man, like we are all professionals and some of us might not be locked in and secure in a deal here in Golden State where we can say, yeah, let's play for the collective good like no matter what. You're always walking a line like as a player between, I talk to high school coaches is about this, right? Like, forgive me for a second, Howard. You know, high school coaches are always trying to sell a kid on winning like a state championship. Like, like, it's the end all be all, right? And all high school kids are trying to, you know, most of them are trying to play in college, right? And so the sweet spot for any coach and player relationship is finding the balance between the two things, which is like,

like, hey, man, we're going to try to win this championship. I trust that you're going to do everything to help me do that as the coach. And you as the player trust that I'm going to do everything I can to develop you and help you live out your dream ultimately of playing in college. And so it's no different in the NBA, which is like, hey, man, I'm here in Golden State on a one-year deal. And, you know, the success of this team is mutually beneficial. Like, we win a championship.

The organization thrives. We win a championship and I'm a part of it. I'm more attractive on the open market. So like you're always balancing, you know, team success and individual success and ability to produce numbers that would be attractive in a way that you could secure another contract. So, you know, that's the psyche. It's a great point you make. You know, you said some of those names and it was interesting, a little older like of a roster. Like, you know, when you're talking about Collie Anderson and Melton and Looney, all guys, though, that you would say probably from experience and the way they've been used at different stops along the.

way would be okay in that. Like you're not talking about guys that are used to rolling out there for 35 minutes a night, you know, even if they were in a supporting cast role. So I still think they fit the mold a little bit. But going to be interesting, I would imagine that that's got, you've got to pair that down. You can't roll out with 12, you know, people for even half of a season. But right now, through a month or so until you really figure out what you have and who's integral to the success of and the style that you want to play, give it a shot. Yeah. No, I don't think we'll see it last for too long. And again, it's not going to shock me at all if they find a way to make some sort of consolidation trade

and try to get Steph at least one more, you know, shot creator, score type, whatever. Somebody else to take some of the pressure off him for the rest of the season. And hopefully his ankle injury isn't too bad and he's back sooner than later. Real Ones is presented by FanDuel. If you're in need of a midweek boost, FanDuel, America's number one sports book has you covered with the NBA Hump Day Parley's reward stack. Now every Wednesday, you can get Parlay profit boosts on everything from spreads to over-unders and even player props.

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Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. All right. It's time for our real one of the week. And by the way, folks, we are back to twice a week. So catch us again on Friday and throughout the season. We are going to be Tuesdays and Fridays this season in the Ringer MBA show feed. Real one of the week. Rajah, who you got?

Oh, man, this one is near and dear to my heart, man. My real one of the week is going to be my young buck, Diabelle. Love it. Huge game against number 21 ranked St. Thomas the other night. American Heritage has never beaten St. Thomas in football. They were down 10 going into the fourth quarter. They got a turnover, I think. A turnover on downs.

Dia looked up in the stands and hit his chest and then completed two passes for like 15 and 15. and then ripped a 50-yard run for a touchdown. Then the defense stood up and got another stop. Dia took him down and scored again. And it was just really cool, man. He had as many touchdowns as he did in completion. So I think he finished with 266 in the air for three. And then another 117 on the ground for another touchdown.

And it was the first time they've ever beat St. Thomas. They needed it going into the playoffs. Huge win for he and his teammates. He's my real one of the week. Awesome. Love it. Love it, love it. So for my real one of the week, I'm staying in the NBA, not on an NBA topic.

And I'm just going to say this. Greg Popovich is my real one of the week. And if you didn't see it, go look it up. Pop had a 13 minute, 13 minutes almost uninterrupted, aside from a couple follow-up prompts from the media. 13-minute monologue slash rant on Saturday about the election. And I don't need to say why. I don't need to say why. I don't need to give my own political speech here.

If you follow me on social media, you know where I stand. And you know why I am calling Pop My Real One of the Week for the content of his presentation over the weekend. And one of the reasons I flagged this is just that, you know, four years ago, the MBA, and not just four years ago, but especially in 2020, the NBA was either praised to the, Hilt or criticized to the Hilt for a lot of the activism among players and coaches and sometimes even the league itself. We heard a lot of shut up and dribble, which was obnoxious as hell. There's less activism now for whatever reason than there was then and less engagement overall. So hearing Pop and then hearing a little follow up from Doc Rivers, who was asked about Pop's speech was just good to see, good to hear. Glad to see Pop as passionate as ever.

and he's my real one of the week. No doubt. All right. One more before we get to the mailbag. And we don't have to spend a lot of time on this because we are playing with the epitome of small sample size theater here. But the Cleveland Cavaliers have a new coach, Kenny Atkinson, who's known for being more of an offensive-minded guy. And the Cavaliers, who were 18th and offensive efficiency last year, are now second behind only Boston. We are granted four games into the Cavs season.

So these smallest are small sample sizes. But still, there's something going on there. The Lakers under J.J. Reddick, I had a whole story last week on the ringer.com, go looking up about whether it matters for coaches to have experience as J.J. does not. The Lakers, the argument would be, no, experience doesn't matter because J.J. Reddick's team is now fifth in offensive efficiency. They were 15th last season. The Lakers right now behind only Boston, Cleveland, New York.

and the Warriors in offense. Cavs are 4-0. Lakers are 3-1. The calves have had a pretty soft schedule. The Lakers have actually had a hard one. I don't know. It just made me think about, and I was messaging with my buddy, Steve Alardi,

who's a data analyst, analytics guy, who's worked in the league and worked around the league, done a lot of stuff. It just makes it. It's an interesting question, Rajah. I always wonder about this. Like, how much does coaching matter? Does it matter just around the margins?

Can a coach make a revolutionary kind of difference to a team? Some teams this summer did nothing except change the coach. Lakers being primarily one of them. I've criticized them for that. But early results are pretty good. I don't know. It's not statistically significant yet that Steve Alardi was the first to note that when we were messaging, I would be the first to tell people that it's too soon.

But these are good signs for those teams and perhaps indications. that a different coach with a different philosophy makes a difference. Roger, in your experience, can a coach fundamentally change the outcome when the personnel is basically the same? Yeah, definitely. Philosophy, style,

in terms of the way you want to play, given the personnel that you have, does it fit? You know, just general touch. you know, do you have a light enough hand when you're dealing with pros to make it feel collaborative in a way that you get the best out of everyone? On the flip side, you have a firm enough hand that if people are overstepping their bounds and starting to challenge in a way that would undermine you, can you put them in check and hold them accountable? You know,

it requires a deaf touch. And I do think that you can have a huge impact. you know, at times. Obviously, the players go out there and play, but like, for, for for JJ, it's interesting to me because, well, let's start with Kenny. Like Kenny, Kenny, clearly you can see like that they've put an emphasis on keeping the floor spread, keeping space, like, in a way that that Cleveland didn't always do last year. And that's opened up the floor. You see Jared Allen, you know, producing on top of the rim and that, what was he, 10 for 10 the other night, like around the rim on like, you can see that. That's there, right? When you watch the last, Lakers.

It's different, but you can see the, my eye told me as I watched them play last night, you know, against Phoenix, they lost the game, but the ball looks like it's moving quicker. It looks like they're not as many ball stop possessions. Now, they get into pick and roll and stuff like that, but they're not as many. But clearly what they've done is started. And this is what I don't know, Howard, whether this is JJ's idea, if this is an organizational idea, like if this is, you know, the move to ratcheting up Anthony Davis, Austin Reeves usage rate, tampering down LeBron's feels like they're trying to make that hand off of baton in a way that

we've been talking about for years now. And like, that would be interested in me. Like, I don't know if that's a JJ thing or if that's like a, hey, guys, like JJ, when you come in, this is what we're trying to get done and we're going to, you know what I mean? I don't have the answer, but clearly they're doing that. Yeah. And I also just think, and I was, you know, I was there for the first Lakersons game. So I was at the one in L.A. and last night, of course, they were in Phoenix. Lakers and Sons have played a lot against each other in the preseason and regular season so far. The ball and the players, there's just more movement.

Yeah. They're just more dynamism in the Lakers' offense right now. And we'll see how long that lasts. And maybe that's just their new personality. And that's J.J.'s approach. and maybe that lasts the whole season, and maybe they're that much better because of it. Sometimes the personnel could just be the same.

Nobody makes a major leap, but you're better just by, in this case, just having more ball and player movement, by making the offense a little less stagnant, a little less predictable. You know, less time DeAngelo Russell pounding the ball is probably a good thing. I mean, for that matter,

less time LeBron pounding the ball is probably a good thing, too. I mean, dude's turning 40 in December. And, yeah, the long-awaited baton handle. off from LeBron to Anthony Davis if that's truly happening now. And if Anthony Davis stays healthy, right? The biggest asterisk you can always put on every Laker season of his career there. But those things seem promising. Those things seem promising.

Listen, the, yeah, yeah, that's going to be interesting for me, Howard. Like, first of all, like, again, a really small sample size. So, like, you know, we'll see. But, you know, I've watched them a couple games now. And, you know, the first time I'm like, okay. And then the second time, I'm like, no, that's happening. Like, they're going, they're running it through that. He's getting way more touches.

You know, the people movement, you were absolutely correct because I said ball movement, but the people, the cutting, the moving, they're just like light actions to get the ball from side to side. Like, they're getting the ball to the weak side of the floor. You know, I don't know where you could find that stat. But I would have to imagine if somebody could stat that early in this season, their ability to change sides of the floor with the ball looks just so much better than it did last. year, which which is what you want to do offensively.

Like, you know, you want defenses to have to shift and then you can take advantage of them on the weak side of the floor. But this is what's going to be interesting after I say all of that. Can, can AD physically sustain the workload over the course of a season? Right. Like, I mean, let's see if he can do it. Like, actually hope he does it. And what we definitely don't know because you can, you can say whatever you want to say. like as a player.

Oh, I'm good with this. Like, oh, we're going to make a slight change. I'm fine with that. Oh, you're going to bring me off the bench. Oh, sure, no problem. But how you feel about that is a different story. So, like, as it relates to LeBron, like, you can say that you're good not having the ball in your hands as much as you've done for your entire career.

You can say you're good with like not getting the same amount of leave. That all sounds good until we hit a rough patch and things aren't going great. your natural instinct as the best player on the planet for however long now is to say, I have the answer, let me get the ball. And that's when it's going to be tested, right? And that's when we'll find out. And so those two things are going to be fascinating to just watch. So these are the trends are worth watching here, right?

Like, well, the Cavs sustain this with the Lakers sustain this. Did the coaching change and philosophy change really make a different? Like that's, it's just, it's a fun one to watch because, again, like, I'm always curious, like how big a difference does a coach make. Again, the stat guys will tell you, the analytics guys will tell you you got to wait until at least 10 games in, more like 20 to 25 games in for things to kind of stabilize and see whether the trends hold.

But I think this is a conversation we'll probably be having again as the season goes on. All right, with all that, it's time for the mailbag. Producer Kerm, what we got? What's up, guys? This first question is from Nelson. Crazy title. It is plus or minus six inches. Hi, Rowan's question for you.

Which player past or present would benefit their career the most by gaining or losing six inches in height? Whoa. That's interesting. One that pops in a mind immediately for a specific reason. When the Knicks drafted Nate Robinson, and I was covering the Knicks at that time, And Isaiah Thomas, who drafted him, one of the first things Isaiah said about him was if he were, I don't know if he said six inches, but, you know, Nate's whatever, little below, at least like five, ten, whatever, I'd have to look him up.

But like, Nate's obviously very, very small and Nate was very, very explosive and incredibly athletic. And Isaiah's thing was, and I think he was drafted like 29th or somewhere in there. But Isaiah's description of him was basically like, this kid's amazing. and if he were like, whatever, three inches, inches, dollar, six inches taller, he would have been the number one overall pick. And that may be, I'm not, do not hold me to this. That's not word for word. Isaiah's point was simply, my point is simply,

Nate Robinson is one of those guys who the physical tools, the athleticism, the explosiveness was so incredibly off the charts that the only thing that kept him from being a great NBA player was that, yeah, he was really, really short. So he's the, I don't know if that's the best answer to the question, but he's the first one that pops in a mind. just because that was a theme when he was drafted? Yeah, I had another one, and you just said his name, but it's not the same Isaiah Thomas,

but it would be, I guess, the other Isaiah Thomas. You know, like, I forgive me for not knowing all the ins and outs of the way it played out. I know it was really hard for him to get back in. Like, I've seen some of that. But, like, if he is six inches taller with that offensive skill set and as electrifying as he was scoring the ball at his, you know, real size. You know, I think the dynamics around that change dramatically.

So I would use him. I looked it up there, both five, nine. And yeah, both guys who were just super quick and explosive. And you could just see like, man, if this guy had been blessed with a few more inches of height, his career looks really different. So that's interesting. But I don't know, before we move on, I don't know how you, I don't know if anybody, any, any NBA player would be better off six inches shorter. I don't know if that's a thing. Do we know any seven footers who like maybe if they were shorter and less lumbering,

they would have been better. I don't know who fits that. I don't know. Could it be like a health thing? Like I don't know my history as well as you guys. Yeah, maybe. I'm a little bit younger. Like say like a Yao Ming.

Like would he have had a longer career if he was shorter? I'd like to throw myself in the ring. I'd like to throw my own hat in the ring if we're talking plus or minus like six years. I don't yeah there's no um like but like yaw was was a giant and like being less of a giant would have negated part of what made him so effective right yeah shack six inches shorter is not going to make for a better shack rudy gober six inches shorter is not making for a better rudy gober yokech and b like i can't and i don't there's certainly no six six guys who would be better off at six foot so i don't know that like the other end of it's an interesting uh question

I'm not sure. I don't know if anybody would fit that one. Next question. It's from Logan. Not our Logan. Don't get too excited, guys. Miss you Logan. Whoever this Logan is, you're also, you're still a great guy.

You're just not our Logan. And that's okay. This question is, or it's labeled Brandon Ingram and Zach Levine. What is it about Brandon Ingram and Zach Levine that make them so undesirable for other teams to trade for them? What are some historical examples of other players who are good, but not necessarily players other teams wanted. Thanks.

Love the show. Logan. Thank you, Logan. Roger Hugo. Oh, man. I don't. Yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't, Logan, forgive me, man.

I'm not like a, you know, I'm not like, I don't know contractually what those dudes make, like off the top. Like this question was just posed to me. Yeah. So I'm sure that probably has something to do with, with how desirable they are to other teams. It's usually when you have guys that are of that talent level and can score the way they do,

it's usually has something to do with the finances. In terms of game, I think B.I. is interesting because he shoots so many shots that analytically probably aren't desired in today's game. He makes a lot of them. He's just a tough bucket getter. You know, and like my basketball aesthetic eye likes to watch that. But if you're asking me to build a team around that or incorporate it into a team, like to bring it in, you have to let it do what it does.

That's why it's, that's why it's in the NBA, right? Like it's like, his skill set is scoring the ball. So if I'm going to bring that in, I've got to provide the opportunity for him to do it. And I'm not sure that like, you know, really good teams want to bring in a piece like that's going to stop the ball and shoot a bunch of tough shots. Like that's just, you know, look, I'm not a GM, but, but there's got to be that conversation. Hey, man, we're going to bring him in. Most really good teams are already really, you know, they're close so they have a guy or two.

They can go out and get it in that way. And when you bring him in, you know, you're, you got to let it cook in the midrange and get into the bag and shoot the fade away. And I don't know that everyone values those buckets. the same way. Zach Levine, that's an interesting one to me, Howard,

because I like Zach Levine's game, too. You know, and I don't see him as a guy who needs to shoot the type of shots that the B.I. shoots to be

as productive. Like, you know, am I wrong for that? But I don't feel that way about Zach Levine. So I think Zach's has more to do.

And this is just me speculating. I have no insight on this. I think his has probably, more to do with like whether they think he might fit personality wise or like culturally or whether he will be willing to maybe take the back seat to something that you've already got in place. Like and again, I have no I have no insight on that. But I do know, let me just reference him back to when I was finishing my career because

this was interesting. Like as people were like poking around like, hey man, do you know, do you want to come in or hey, can we bring Rajin? Like I heard from a friend of mine who was in the Pelicans organization at the time. They had called me. I was supposed to fly out and then they didn't call back. And he said they weren't sure whether I was going to be able to accept the role that they had there for me in New Orleans. So like that happened to me.

I know that's a thing. I thought it was silly then. I think it's silly now. Like, you know, without having that conversation or really getting to know someone. But it is a thing that happens out there. And I do not see Zach Levine's game like taking up as much. space at times as I do BIs. That's just me personally.

So I would just say this. The most obvious reason both these guys, first of all, the teams that are trying to trade them, New Orleans and Chicago, it's because they have other just kind of fundamental issues they're trying to work out. In the Bulls case, has a lot to do with just them kind of starting over. You know, they let DeRosen go.

They're, you know, they are trying to, you know, they picked up Giddy. They're trying to find a new way. forward after kind of stalling out with the last plan. And so there's that. And the Pelicans, it's, you know, look, they've, in both these cases, there's a ton of payroll issues, right? And in the Pelicans case, too, they're trying to find a pecking order around Zion.

And Ingram and Levine both, these are guys who, not always, and I'm not saying these guys are ball hogs or ball stoppers, but they both have been at their best sometimes when they're at a high usage clip, right? And those are tough. If your highest usage guy is not your most efficient guy or not a guy that you think you can build a contender around, then you've got to make that guy your second guy or your third guy and then hope that they're really to accept that. And then even still, maybe your offense doesn't flow as well if you've got a guy who feels like I got to cook sometimes. So there's a little bit of just basic basketballness, but more than anything on both these guys to the readers or the listeners question. It's about everything else, the contracts, the second apron, this new CBA.

I think both these teams are at inflection points where they would be trying to trade them anyway, but the reason that they can't trade them and have not been able to find takers has everything to do with payroll, CBA stuff, second apron stuff. Brandon Ingram is in the last year of his deal paying him $36 million, but he wants a new contract. And it's going to be higher than that, most likely, and teams are leery of that. So there's like the first Ingram obstacle to a trade is just like he's making a lot and wants to make even more. Zach Levine is making $43 million going up to $46 million,

going up to almost $49 million in 2627 on a player option. And so yeah, like that's hard to, even if you love Zach Levine as a player, by the way, his injury history is also scaring teams off. But even if you love him as a player, the contract is tough. And in this environment, in this CBA environment, it's tough to fit them in. So those are the real obstacles. It's not really as much about them as players as I think it is about everything else.

All right. Last question is from Riza. Sorry if I pronounce your name wrong, man. I'm trying. I'm trying. How can we keep our favorite players? From a fan perspective, it really sucks watching our favorite players get old and traded away.

We all want the Dirk, Tim Duncan experience and very rarely get it. This needs to be a CBA issue. There has to be a way to manage contracts or our favorite players ride off into the sunset and the same jersey they took over the town end. Idea. At any point, the team and player can agree to exercise the contract sunset option. 50% of the remaining two years left of the contract is exempt from the cap. You can give Jimmy Butler a three-year extension for $30 million a year,

but the last two years would be a $15 million per year. cap hit, however, from that point on, the player is only eligible for the veteran minimum. So let's say Jimmy signs the extension and after a year both agree to the sunset contract. Should Jimmy have enough in the tank to continue playing? His subsequent contracts are capped at the veteran minimum. That would curtain any front office shenan against as the player would have to be serious about ending their career with the franchise. Thoughts.

I know that was a lot. That is a lot. The listener did not say who they're a fan. I take it they're a heat fan. Oh, they're from Sacramento. It does say they're from Sacramento. I don't know if they're a heat fan or a Kings fan. If I were them, I'd be a heat fan.

That you know, that's neither here nor there. What do you guys think? Roger, you got any of the last one? He's smarter than me, bro. Like, yeah, I mean, listen, dude. You spent time in a front office? I spent less than a year in a front office, and there were plenty of things that I didn't dive into.

Know your role. That wasn't my role in the front office. You weren't pouring over those Excel spreadsheets with all the caps. I was not digging into the cap like that. I mean, I like the idea. I like the idea. Just as a fan, you know, I do kind of nostalgically miss the day of at least having real hope that my favorite player would be my favorite player on my favorite team forever. So if there was a way to make that more commonplace and it wasn't like taking advantage of the player or or hamstringing the front office in a way that wasn't allowing them to continue to kind of grow, then I'm all for it.

And you seem to be way smarter to me, my boy. So congratulations. I will support that. If you need a petition to get signed, send that shit my way, dog. I love what the listeners hitting on here because like the fans get left out of all this stuff, right? The fans are not involved in CBA discussions. The fans are not involved in, well, frankly, anything. They certainly don't get it to have a voice in load management or who's playing when the team comes to your city for the only time all season and the three stars all take a night off.

Yeah, like I think we all on some emotional level and a fan level, you want to see continuity. You want to see your favorite players stay put. The flip side of that is that especially now, I think now the last 10, years, 15 years more than ever. Everybody loves transactions. We love rumors. We love trades. We love free agency. The NBA offseason does bigger numbers in terms of podcast traffic and clicks on websites that I think any time during the year. I don't know that myself. I just hear this anecdotally sometimes from folks who work on the other side of media companies I've worked for. Like, we love transactions. We love movement. But we also have this like this, this nostalgia for the days of yesteryear where a guy

just spends this whole career with one team. Look, some of this is CBA related. Some of it is just player, you know, self-determination related. And guys should have the ability to, you know, go where they want to go. To the point of the listener, the question where it's about the CBA, the NBA wrestles with this in every CBA. They're always either trying to find ways for teams. So the Bird rule, right, the Larry Bird rule, the Larry Bird rule,

the Larry Bird exception, you can re-sign your own. guy for as much as you want up to the max. Used to not be a max, but you could just sign him to whatever you wanted. The whole point of that was that the Celtics could keep Larry Bird after the NBA first adopted a salary cap, right? So for literally decades, the

NBA has been invested in the idea that no matter how many rules we come up with to try to promote parity, to try to promote some sense of balance in the system so that nobody can just outspend everybody else and win as a result, they've tried to build in mechanisms to keep your guy.

no matter what kind of market you were in small market or otherwise. And the other side of that is that not so long ago, we had the Warriors and the Clippers outspending everybody by tens of millions or hundreds of millions in payroll and luxury taxes. And the league said, but we can't have that either. What's happened now? Clay Thompson, who for a long time, we've talked about this, we thought maybe he would write off in the sunset with Steph and Dremont and Steve Kerr is now in Dallas because

of the NBA's new rules. And maybe it would have happened anyway. But it probably happened because of the NBA's second apron and all these new rules that are designed to try to make you make tough choices. I don't know if there's a better balance in there somewhere. I kind of think there is. And I agree with the premise of the listener's question. And I think Zach Lowe and others have floated something like this before where it's like, when you reach a certain age or a certain number of years with a franchise or if it's a franchise that drafted you and you spent your whole career there,

create a mechanism so that, yeah, not all of their salary is a cap hit or a tax hit so that we can enable teams to keep their guys. The problem with that, I think the NBA would tell you is if you do that too much, then the team that still has like, say, three aging stars, but who are still really good, they're going to then have the cap room to be able to then add even more talent. And the whole point is not to have anyone team be able to suck up that much talent because you want it to be distributed around the league. So that's the conundrum. But it's a great discussion. It's a great idea. Appreciate the question there. Kerm, we've emptied the mailbag.

Empty the clip, man. Give us some new, some new ammo. Real ones at g-fuck. I fucked it up. Real ones mailbag at gmail. com. Real ones mailbag at gmail. com.

Reminds mailbag at gm. We miss you, Logan. We need you back, Logan. We need you back. But at least we got to hear from a Logan in the mailbag. That was cool. We will get actual Logan back to January, I think. But in the meantime, Raj and I will keep holding it down.

Producer Kern will help us hold it down. We'll be back on Friday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 188. 89-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

Hope is here. Visit gambling helplinema.m.m.m.m. or call 800-327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8-Hop-N-Y or text Hope N.Y in New York.