The Ringer NBA Show - How NBA Greats Spin Narratives for Motivation and Zach LaVine’s Potential Landing Spots. Plus, Chelsea Gray on Success With the Aces | Real Ones

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

Logan, Raja, and Howard discuss LeBron James’s Instagram post targeted at the people who “doubted” him after his move to Los Angeles, how NBA players spin narratives to motivate themselves, and what it’s like for athletes in the social media age who deal with constant criticism (1:12). Along the way, the guys react to James Harden’s early integration into the Los Angeles Clippers offense, the team’s rough start upon his arrival, and whether it’s time to hit the panic button (21:55). Next, they break down a handful of potential landing spots for Chicago Bulls star Zach LaVine, and discuss which one makes the most sense (35:30). Later, Las Vegas Aces point guard Chelsea Gray joins the show to talk about winning back-to-back WNBA championships with the team, A’ja Wilson getting snubbed for MVP, having Hall of Famer Becky Hammon as a head coach, and more (55:32). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck Guest: Chelsea Gray Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from Offguard. And I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guy Pasha Gigi is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. It's popping. Monday's Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there, Howard Beck in the Cut, Chelsea Gray in a bit.

Man, guys, so I get in the prepod meeting, right? Obviously, Roger came a little late, so me and Howard had a little powwow. Don't try to laugh. I'll try to laugh it off. You know, he was late. So me and Howard are talking, right? You know, talking to the rundown, say, what do you want to talk about, Howard? And I run down some things.

And one of the things that comes about is LeBron. and talking about how, you know, LeBron has a bone to pick. LeBron in the same way of Jordan just, you know, how Jordan just has the narratives that he brings apart on his own, not to say that they're not there, but they're pretty small.

So I'm looking on Instagram because I'm bored over the weekend, and I see LeBron say, post his own stats and say, hey, y'all thought I was just here to do movies, right? Thought I only came here to L.A. to just shoot movies and do things like that. and I, you know, brought that subject over to Howard,

and Howard said he has thoughts. Howard, what are your thoughts when you hear LeBron, try to settle scores that aren't even really needed to be settled? When you hear those things, what comes to mind in your eyes? I think we need to, I know we have way too many stats now, analytics, tracking stats, all kinds of fancy stuff, cameras in the rafters, all this stuff. We need like a creativity efficiency ranking, or something.

Like, that LeBron could just manufacture this stuff out of thin air is awesome. I love LeBron. He's, it was not a thing. It was, it was, it was not a thing. When LeBron, like, immediately when I saw the quote, and I went, what is he even like alluding to? And like, I do remember when LeBron chose to go to the Lakers, leaving Cleveland again, he's choosing the Lakers.

And actually, even in all the run up to that, right? That whole last season in Cleveland, everybody's talking about, is he staying? Is he leaving? The whole rigmarole again, where will he go if he goes? And it was, you know, usual shortlist of teams, I think. And with the Lakers, it was, here are all the reasons why L.A. makes sense. His, you know, his media company is there. And they have a home already there. And his family likes L.A. And there were all these different reasons why he might want to go there, not least of which, or at least significant in all this, would be, hey, here's a guy who, has already done some acting, who has a media company based there. It makes sense for him to be near

Hollywood. But nobody said he's going there to basically just slide into retirement and he's just going to like, you know, dribble out his last few seasons just hanging out while going full bore into a Hollywood. Like, no, I don't think anybody said, I should, I should qualify this statement. Because we live in the times we do and because there's an immense amount of nonsense being broadcast at any given time on both TV channels and social media channels and every other kind of way that you can consume media. Someone's always probably said something, but I don't recall this actually being a thing.

I don't recall anybody actually saying, much less a bunch of people saying, LeBron's just going to L.A. just to pursue movies or whatever. Like, nobody said that. But I admire his ability. Shaq was great at this, too, at kind of like manufacturing or taking one tiny little thread of a germ of maybe a little bit of some kind of perceived slight and turning it into a thing that gets you going and and gets that that vengeance impulse going so that you can go crush people because especially if you've been playing after you've been playing a long time you kind of need new ways to kind of like trick yourself into going all out so it's fine i i respect it but it's weird and no i'm sorry none of us actually ever said that, LeBron.

I'm with you, Howard. I didn't know that was the thing. I mean, both things can be true, right? Like, it could be, you know, it's a great place for you to be and you're set up for your life after basketball, but you also are going to be one of the all-time greatest players questing for championships down the tail end of your career in a Lakers uniform. It doesn't have to be one or the other, right? Like, both things could be true in that.

You know what I mean? Like, you're set up. It's a great opportunity for everything you want post-career, but I mean, I'm with you. I didn't see too many people out there saying that he was just going to be mailing it in as a Laker. But you're right. This is what we talk about it all the time in. Not even greets. I mean, grates typically do it and they get the recognition for doing it.

And then their stories are told in the space of having to make something up to as a slight or some sort of slander. And it motivates them. But regular people do it too. Regular pros, like regular, you know, your average NBA player, is doing that in some capacity. You know, like I would, you need a rep on the bench and you're trying to get the last one, man, I'm picturing anybody who ever cut me.

You know what I'm saying? Like I got a mile left and I don't want to do it. Manu Genobley's face pops up. And you're like, oh, yeah, he went after me. Like, but we all do it, you know? So like, you're right. That's another one of these things. And quite frankly, when you've achieved as much

as those dudes have, it's harder to find them. So you've got to dig a little deeper. Are you saying that NBA players are petty, Raja? So what you're telling you right now? I mean, we know NBA players are Betty, but I don't see that as petty as much as it is. Hey, bro, like, you're looking for every edge you can get me. And any little bit of any little bit of perceived slight you put in the fuel tank and you burn it.

Okay, so I have thoughts here. So did he explicitly come out to shoot movies? No. But was that like five or 10% of it? I mean, yeah. Like, why? Like, I just, I want, this is what I have. This is what I have to say about the LeBron thing.

And it's interesting because, like, I get it. NBA players need to find something to do, but, or find something to motivate them. But, and I think that this is just, I think what all this is more than anything is, one, LeBron is hell online all the time. And two is, I think he is insecure about the movie thing in general, right? Like, he did come in here to do, he did come to win championships and be a Laker and all that, and everything that encompasses. But, like, he did come for, you know, conveniently the Lakers are right in Hollywood,

and he is taking advantage of that. Every time I go to L.A., I see all the billboards of Spring Hill. I see him. He wanted to take over Hollywood. He wanted to win championships as a Laker. He wanted to do. And there's nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with that.

And another thing that I thought about, though, and I want to get your take on this, is one of the things that I thought about was Michael Jordan. and the similarities of Michael Jordan doing this in the same way, of trying to muster up something to get him going, specifically in the later stages of his career, I took that personal era of Michael Jordan. How much can this, how much does this fuel a player in general the manufactured things, Rajah?

Because I know, I'm sure you've done this. I'm sure you have you have you have just lied on somebody and said he wasn't nice to be. The Shaq David Robinson thing. Where does this come from? Why do players feel? Because there's so many other things that they could say that they could be slighted on. Why do they lie? Why is that?

Why do they lie? I mean, well, you run out of you guys liars, Roger. Why don't lie? Appreciate the question, Logan. You run out of things at some point. that are real, you know? Like, I mean, I typically had a lot of them because I was cut a lot. There were a lot of people that told me I wasn't shit and wasn't going to be able to play.

So I had this whole rolodex of people that I could thumb through when I needed some motivation, right? You know, like the LeBron's, the MJs, you know, the first picks and third picks or whatever they are in the draft, the guys that have played and are all-time goats, they're not as, they're not as many genuine, like, real instances where someone has, probably told them they're not shit. So having to manufacture them is is just what it is because you can't draw on but a few times in your life where someone has said you're not going to be what you think you are. Right. And so you're looking to get through tough times again, whether that's in a workout and this is a this is a 20 minute manufactured slight that gets you through 20 minutes or you know, whether you're in the doldrums of some part of a season. and you're looking for a reason to just, like, be laser focused.

I mean, I don't know if I'm answering your question, great, Logan, but I think you have to make it up sometimes because those dudes, like not players like me, but they don't have enough real shit to go off of. Howard, are we unfair to players when they have outside interests as a, not just, I'm not going to say the media like in general, but like there are narratives that come up all the time about these players who do have other outside.

interest, making bread outside of the game. And I think that you could chew bubble gum and walk at the same time. But there is always that narrative that keeps coming up, especially when players lose. Oh, man, he's too focused on this. And I'm not talking about specifically about LeBron James. I'm talking about just a general that exists. Are we unfair when we put that on to people? Or is it a more nuanced thing than that?

The thing is, I feel like that was much more of a thing, like 2025. years ago. Like when Shaq first started making rap albums early in his NBA career and Shaq was making movies doing like Kazam and Blue Chips and all this, that was a real thing. Why don't you go work on your free throws instead of making rap album, Shaq? There was a lot of stupidity like that at the time, right? And the thing is, as long as you're a player of Shaq's stature, I mean, like, figuratively as well as as literally, if you're not winning championships and you shoot free throws the way he did or any hole in his game that might have existed, it would have been, that's the, that's the, that's the, the thing to focus on, right? Oh, you should be doing this instead of that. You should be concentrating

on your game and not your musical career, your movie career, your whatever. That was a really big thing in the late 90s, early 2000s. I feel like that went away, to be honest. Like, I don't, like, Dame Lillard's never won a championship. Dame has not had a ton of postseason success this career, but I don't hear people doing, and maybe it's out there again, I don't watch a lot of this nonsense. I should qualify a lot of this. I do not watch the debate shows. I don't, uh, go too far down the rabbit hole of a lot of the nonsense that's that's on social media, although I still spend way too much time on it. For all I know, there is somebody out there saying, if Dame Lillard had spent less time

rapping, and maybe he'd win more. I don't know. Maybe that exists. I feel like that particular line of criticism has generally faded over the last 10, 20 years. Because everybody has off court stuff now. Everybody's doing something. And everybody, like, it wasn't until like the mid-to-day. 2000s that people started talking about themselves as a brand like that became a thing my brand i'm a

brand and when they did it was because they were branching out into entertainment and other endeavors maybe they put out a cookbook whatever it may have been and because of social media so everybody suddenly became something more than just you know athlete on the court athlete on the field everybody had something going on and so because it's now ubiquitous i don't i don't think that that's a major line of criticism anymore. Again, I could be wrong. Maybe there's something out there I missed, but I feel like guys are pretty much allowed to just kind of do their thing now. There was a time, and I'm with you, Howard, I don't feel like we live in that time anymore where it was hard to, because you didn't have access to your favorite athlete, it was hard

to see them in any other light than the colors of your team, right? And you thought that because that's the only light you ever saw them in, that their entire world was concerned. with trying to be the best player they could for your colors, right? Like, that was it. They ate, slept, read that. And in some cases, that may be true. But I would always try to tell people of fans, I'd be like, look, we're just regular people like you guys who are really good at basketball.

Like that doesn't, you know, some of us care more about that than others. Like some of us, this is all we've ever known and all we've ever wanted to do. There are others of us that are just really, really good at it and they have a variety of other interests that they may take more seriously, quite frankly, than this. They're just really good at this. And they can make a great living doing it, you know? And so there was a time when I played that it was like that. I don't believe because you could just see your favorite person doing, you know,

basically what they do all day long on their social media platforms and stuff like that. So I don't think we live in that time anymore. By the way, while we were talking, I just Googled LeBron and just to make movies so that I could pull up everything that had the quote in it. I'm not going to say like LeBron got what he wanted out of this, but you can see how screwed up our media ecosystem is when you Google that's, I'm going to read you some of the headlines that come up on the first page of Google. LeBron claps back at critics before a 37 point game. LeBron flames his haters on an Instagram post after dropping 35 points. LeBron James calls out critics with, quote, movies quip.

LeBron James explains why he called out his haters. of LeBron James calls out naysayers. So we got naysayers, we got haters, we got critics, silences, haters. I'm just scrolling it just on and on and on because there are a thousand like bullshit, cheap-ass aggregation sites out there now that do nothing but just pick up these quotes and churn out bullshit because they want to get clicks. Howard is bad. There's literally nothing to this all the way.

Our media ecosystem is so fucked up. I just got to say, like Google anything and see how many sites pop up that you can't even identify. I didn't, I've never heard of this site. What is this? It's just, it's like, they're all like, whatever. There are a lot of fake sites. But anyway, there's a whole bullshit Google news cycle coming out of this out of a quote

that like LeBron like made up a grievance out of thin air. It's amazing. Anyway. Hey, oh man. We always talk about the Razor Rants. The Howard rants are the shit. I think he might got you, Ron. I think I'll get myself in trouble.

Before this is all over, I will get myself in trouble. I will concede. I will concede. I enjoyed that. Hey, hey, clear out. Give power to ball. Clear the fuck out. I'm in the corner if you need me, bro.

I'm sorry. My usage rate just went a little bit, hey, why. Last question on this, though. This is for Roth. And it's just interesting. And we've talked about this before on the pod where just a difference in consumption of media or like even the criticism of you. And I'm not abute to this.

I know, Roger, you're not abute to this even in the space you are. A few years removed out of the league. but it's not like now you have to buy a 50 cent newspaper and then you'll see like what a columnist has to say about you. Like nowadays, you can see like one comment can fuck up your whole day, right? And that's just me and Raw and Howard. And we're not as famous as fucking LeBron James who sees it like constantly. How is the difference in like the way players are criticized change the dynamic of, of how they respond.

Because it might, it's probably not, it's probably, if LeBronlick says, comments, it's probably, I don't know how positive, overwhelmingly positive it is, but like, he could look at one comment and be like, man, fuck that motherfucker. That, that,

they have been messed up. And then I'll say, how does that play with a player's mind when it's just constantly in their face, the criticism and all these things in a way that they can consume it much more easily? I don't really know, Logan, because this is kind of,

this is kind of, you know, unfolded since my retirement. But I would say to that, and I often hear some of the older players saying guys today have rabbit ears and their skin isn't as thick as it was. I actually think it's the opposite. I think because dudes have it so at their fingertips today and they can't avoid it. Like, we could avoid it. To your point, if I don't turn on SportsCenter or I don't turn on my AM radio, I'm pretty good.

I mean, I'm not really going to hear if anyone's, if I don't buy a newspaper, I'm not going to hear anyone talking any kind of stuff about me unless they have the, you know, the gall to do it in my face when they see me at the mall or hanging out at the movie theater or at dinner, right? So I don't have to, you know, be a part of that. But today you turn your phone on. Like if you have alerts or anything like that,

like you can't, you wouldn't be able to go to a social media site without really, you know, finding that if you were a big enough star, right? Like, if you were a big enough star. So I think those guys have become like thick or skinned. Now, sure, it probably still bothers some of them and eventually it'll get to you. But because it's in their face and they can't avoid it, I think dudes do a much better job than we would have at the time because it would have been so new to us. We wouldn't have known how to navigate.

A Reddit account and would have been like, fuck you just for everybody, huh? Just saying comments and just how would you have been? So honestly, dude, like when I got back, before I started doing media, right, I was just raising some boys like hanging out. nobody really had access to me or gave a shit what I was doing or had anything to comment on. But then I get out in the media space and, you know, people now have more of an opinion because they're hearing my opinion, right? And I shared with you guys a couple of years ago some of the stuff that would be in my DMs like on Instagram. It took me a minute to be like, yo, man, these people are crazy, bro.

Like you can't put no stock in this or be offended. You know what I mean? One way or the other, dude. Like just it took me a minute. So I'm telling you from experience. I wasn't playing, but as a dude who it just, you know, the landscape changed on him, you know, overnight. And now I'm back in a little bit of a public eye and people are firing shots. Like, I was like, oh, shit.

And as a 45-year-old, it took me a minute to deal with that. I think players are way better today than they were in my era. Logan, you know what sucks for the, in this whole discussion? Like, if Roger's playing and he's like taking like hits from people, they're talking shit about him or even if it's like the manufactured version of it, Roger could do that and then they go out and like go lock some dude up or go drop 20 points or whatever. Like, what are you and I doing if people talking shit about I'm going to write harder? It's interesting. You brought that Howard.

That was something that I had to adjust to, specifically when I got here, you know, because there's a bigger spotlight at the ringer. And I just remember like just scouring message boards, right? Like, because I was just so fascinating. Like, why the fuck do y'all care about what I write, right? And then I saw some stuff. and it made me fucking furious, man. And I'm like, I can't look you up. I can't fight you.

I can't even, there's nothing I'm going to do to sway. But you coming at me like just shots, it took like a good maybe, I'd say like four or five months to just be like, this is not healthy, bro. This is just not healthy. Being on there is not healthy. And you got to, I mean, listen,

like what kind of person do you have to be really to be in somebody's mentions DMs or even on one of those platforms, flaming somebody you don't know about their job. Like, you got to be a miserable-ass person to be doing that. So, you know, you have some context to that. Yeah. No, that's why I've never actually said this on Twitter.

I shouldn't even say this on this pod, but I'm going to do right now because, fuck it, as I said, I'm just going to get myself in trouble with that. Let's do it. Hey, Howard, Howard, I'm in the corner if you need me. I'll appreciate you, Raj. He threw us out the, he was trying to set a screen. He was like, fuck that.

We got out. I got you. I'm in the other corner. It's good. My general policy on blocking people comes down to one thing. Don't be a dick. If I blocked you, it's because you're being a dick. Like, that's what Roger was just saying. If you come into somebody's mentions for the express purpose of just, like, insulting somebody or just being a, like, just being a dick, like, just don't, don't. Like, anybody I've ever blocked, there's a few other categories there actually. There's some subcategories. We don't need to go down that that tangent today but no it's basically just that oh like even if they came in just to say

just to like be snarky like you're not asking a question you're not actually making a reason to argument you're not saying how come you didn't consider this or i think you're wrong because i don't mind people disagreeing or even criticizing but like make a cogent point and do it without being snarky or insulting but if you're doing if you're coming in for the express purpose of being a dick i'm blocking you for being a dick there we go that's it yeah You're a man. I'd add miserable to the dick. You're just, that's what you are.

You're a miserable dick. Like, what are you doing? Like, why are we doing that? What are we doing? All right. On to the Clippers. Wow. There's a segue.

Wow. We're almost a month into the James Harden experiment. And up until over the weekend, they played a night. I think they played a spires tonight. But 0 and 6. until Roger's guy Russell Westbrook said, you know what, guys, I'm going to come off the bench. I'm going to be the bigger person here,

and I'm going to come off the bench, and I'm going to see how this goes. And that coincides with a James Hardin game where he beats his old nemescence, which was kind of weird because it was like, it was this weird revenge game against the rockets for James Hardin, where he, I don't know. And then he says at some point during this last week,

it took him a while to get into James Harden shape. Right, or whatever that means. And I just, when I think about the Clippers, we're in the midst of a train wreck after this 0 and 6th start with James Hardin in the lineup. But they just won, it seems like, some hope here. Howard, what are your thoughts, immediate thoughts on the James Hardin experience? Russell Westbrook coming off the bench where we are in this whole ecosystem, where we are, Howard. I'm going to be generous right off the top.

There's a lot of benefit of the doubt here. like James Hardin didn't have a training camp due to James Hardin. He hadn't played yet this season due to James Hardin. And he hadn't been with the Clippers for more than a couple of minutes before, you know, jumping right into the starting lineup with like three other stars and trying to find his way. So like there really was no ramp up period. There was no time to get acclimated.

And look, that's all on him. I mean, he's the one who threw this snit over the summer in the first place. And it just took a while to get the deal done. and in the meantime he decided to hold out in Philly. So if he's not in game shape, that's on him. But all that said, if there was a bumpy start to his time with the Clippers, it makes sense. It makes sense because they didn't have a training camp together and he wasn't maybe in like, you know, game shape, whatever. So fine, maybe it takes a little bit.

And yeah, everybody around the league, maybe not everybody. A lot of people felt like, eh, those four together is not a great idea. if Hardin is in, Russ needs to go to the bench. That move was inevitable to me. And somebody had even told me, like, just wait. It's going to be sooner than,

I might have even said it on this pod, that it'll be sooner than later that Russ ends up going to the bench. And he knows that's coming. You know, that was an inevitable move. So I'm not surprised by that. It was like, it had to happen. It basically had to happen.

They win that game. I don't know if that's proof of concept. It also like, they wanted on a last minute shot, or last second shot by Hardin. to beat a Rockets team that gets off to a surprisingly good start, but they're not a great team. I don't know how many people have in the playoffs.

They're not playing for anything. So I don't think that we should take too much from the 0 and 5 start with Hardin or from the 1 and 0 since Westbrook went to the bench. Like none of this means a whole lot yet. I think the best sign is that, at least from what I saw the other night against Houston, it looked like Hardin was starting to feel a little more comfortable, a little more aggressive. And by aggressive, I don't mean he's just jacking up shots.

I mean just assertive as kind of like the lead ball handler. And there is a proof of concept there where his first few weeks or whatever it was with the Nets a couple years ago, he really did play more playmaker role to set up Kyrie and KD. Now, I've also heard he wasn't necessarily all that happy with it, but he can do it and he can do it at a real high level. And so, and Raj is shaking his head like, no, he was not happy. That's right. We've discussed this on this podcast.

before. So, all right, that's fine. But, Roger, this is also a few years later. This is that much older a version of Hardin. He's already had so many different ways in which this has not gone right for him over the years. Again, I may be foolish or naive for thinking of this, but like, I think if Hardin can be happy enough ratcheting back and setting up Kauai and Paul George and then taking over when the time is right for him. And if Tylo can figure out the right combinations of those four stars. Like, they're top 7, 8 players. There's plenty there.

All age and injuries and all that other shit aside, like, there's talent there. I still believe in the outline of a team that should be top six in the West. It's there. Yeah. I mean, I mean... That was not an endorsement.

Clear out, Howard. Hey, Howard, clear out, clear out. No, you don't even have to because, like, I do, you know, I agree with Howard a little bit. I would say there were a lot of ifs there, and you already know if this was a fifth, we'd all be drunk. So I guess what I'm saying is you definitely have a point on James Harden being a little bit older. And I agree with you that at least in theory, if he is in that space now being two years older

and he is willing to kind of be more of the facilitator and understand that offensively, you know, Paul George and Kauai are going to drive the engine while he is kind of, you know, steering it. Like, that makes sense. And you're bringing Russ off the bench. I like it, too, at least on paper, talent-wise. I also like T. Liu to be the type of coach that, while it might not look great right now, I think he does have a way. I've seen him in action of like, let's just stay with it.

Like, it's going to bear fruit. Like, it might not show tonight. It might not show next week. But give me three weeks. And you'll start to see that what we're doing makes sense. So I believe in those things. And I like all of those players. players like Russ, I like Paul George.

And so I actually hope that it works. I just, I don't trust it. You've given me enough now as James Hardin to not trust you. And it's not because I don't like him. It's because I'm just going off of what you've given me in recent past, you know? So I can't all the way disagree with you. I don't think that's a championship team. You know what I mean?

Like I'm not going to sit here and pick them to win anything. But, you know, could they be a playoff team in the West for sure? If all of those ifs are fulfilled. Yeah, or fifth and correct. I love it. If the fifths are fiffing, like, they're straight. If this doesn't go well, they're going to need a lot of those fifths out there. Correct.

From that whole organization from top to bottom because they got a lot writing on this. So, Roger, remember when we were talking about Jordan Poole and Washington a couple weeks back, and you said that the best course of that, the best course of that, action is for Jordan to just keep his head down, just work hard and be. He wasn't listening. I'm not talking about it. We're not talking about. But just sidebar.

Like, he wasn't listening. Fair points, all fair points. I don't think that's the last time we'll ever talk about the Wizards for the rest of the season. But the point that I'm making is in a best case scenario, you want you're the guy that you're integrating to just keep his head down, play hard. The last couple of weeks, Raja, all. I've fucking heard is James Harder got to get into James Hardin's

shape. James Hardin is a system. James Hardin is this. I got news for you. James Hardin ain't even the best player on his team right now. Why, why if you're in that locker room, at what point do you get annoyed by this? Every single

time, at what point and how, if you're Ty Lou, if you're Tai Lu, how do you combat against that? That is the, that is a great question, Logan, because you can't quantify. that. You don't know. It might be three weeks of it for Kauai. It could be two months for Paul George. Like, do you know what I mean? You don't know when someone is going to fry on having to deal with

something that ordinarily they shouldn't have to deal with in the midst of an early season. You know, and hopefully James Harding can come in there, hit, like, get himself in shape. We don't have to be talking about it anymore because he's playing better. And then we don't have to deal with that if you're the front of if you're T-Lew, if you're any of those people. But you don't know. You can't put a number of weeks, games, days, press conferences on when someone is going to be like, okay, that's it, bro. I'm out.

And it doesn't manifest itself like that. You don't look at Logan Murdoch across the locker room and say, oh, that's it. He hit the wall. He checked out. Look, Logan just threw up the white flag. He's out. It doesn't do that. It just kind of starts to like be a funky thing.

Do you know what I mean? You're not as talkative. You ain't sharing as much. You side eyeing a dude. He starts to run his mouth a little bit in a situation where you sit there and listen to the story, but you get your ass up and walk away because you ain't trying to hear it today. Do you know what I mean? And those type of things are real team killers if that starts to happen.

Once you start to get that quiet, passive, aggressive, dudes don't mess with each other type of vibe. And I'm not saying there at that point. Shit, I don't know. I'm not around them. But that's the million-dollar question, Logan. How much of that can those boys take before? before the W start to come, because that generally cures a lot of stuff.

You start to win, and a lot of stuff gets forgiven. Follow up to that really quickly before we get to the next segment, though, Ra, when you hear a guy talking about being in shape around Thanksgiving that he still needs to get into shape, what do you think, dude, even if you, like, here's another thing, you are a superstar basketball player. If you are not in shape all you're around,

I don't care that you don't care that you, you didn't go through a training camp and all that stuff. It is on your responsibility to be in shape. It is about to, we are about to cut the turkey, Roger. We are about to cut the turkey. Straight up. What were you doing?

What were you doing? What were you doing? But now, you know, he's like, you know, shape is relative. I feel like he's trolling us, Roger? Roger, I feel like he's trolling us. When he says the system. Let me just tell you. I feel like me and you.

I feel like he's trolling me and you. Don't get me hot, bro. You're trying really hard. You're trying to push every. button. Like, I see you going around. You're just like the kid in the fucking in the kitchen. You're just going to touch everything trying to get me to go off. But I would just say it like this. He like not being in shape, there is basketball shape versus shape. Okay. So I'll give you, you know, a little bit of time to get in like real basketball shape because it's, unless you're playing

high level basketball, you could be in pseudo shape, but you're not in like NBA shape. So, you know, I'll give him a little leeway there. But having said that, I told this story before I was in the front office with the Cavs. I don't know, two, three years retired. And there was a time where Griff and Kobe Altman and Trent Redden, like jokingly, because of our roster situation, were toying with the idea of maybe and floating it around the office, maybe having me come back in some capacity just to fill a hole here and there. So the question was posed, how long would it take you?

And my answer to that was, give me two weeks. And I'm three years retired. So it don't, you know, like, if you're keeping yourself in some sort of shape, it shouldn't take that damn long to get in shape. Like, I'm telling you two weeks as a three-year retired player and I would have been good to go. So we don't need you to go ahead and tighten up, my boy. I covered Shaq, so I have a different perspective on the play your way into shape thing. But that was, that was 20-something years ago. And besides that, Shaq, even at like 70% of, of quote-unquote in shape was still pretty fierce.

So he could get away with a lot. Yeah, that's, I mean, yeah, yeah, if Shaq's, That's a whole other category You get flashbacks guard Shack Rogers? You get flashbacks? That dude, I went Somebody went baseline It might have been Kobe

Shack was my teammate And I tried to cut him off He had beat me baseline So I was, you know, Angling him off to the rim I was gonna catch him around the backboard And then jump with him And try to contest

And the last thing I remember Is leaving the floor And so when I woke up I was like, whoa, like what happened? They had to take me back to the film As I went up, Shaq was coming from behind

to block the shot and caught me with an elbow on the back of my head. And it was lights out. He was just that big. Like inadvertently, not really trying to like just regular clip of an elbow to the back of my dome. And it was night night. Shack, come on the pod. We're talking Zach Nive Lee next. Cash in on balling out this NBA season with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook.

Right now, new customers can get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 money line bet. That's $150. if your team wins. All right, let's look at what we got on the slate. Celtics Hornets. Yeah, I'm taking the over on that one. And I'm taking Boston. Nuggets, pistons, I think we're going to take the under on that.

Buck's Wizards. I'm taking Milwaukee and I'm taking the points. Taking over on the rest of the NBA slate as well. If you've been thinking about joining Fanduel, there's no better time to join. The app is easy to use and there's a wide range of ways to bet, including quick bets, live same game parlayers, the Parlay Hub and more.

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See terms of sportsbook.fandul.com. And we are back talking Zach Levine. I was reading The Ringer.com, and I saw our co-worker Danny Chow wrote a piece called Zach Levine's value in five trades that makes sense. So we're going to go with the five teams that he put up and see if it makes sense or not. First one, we're going to go to Howard's old stomping ground. The Los Angeles Lakers. What do you think, Howard, about Zach Levine's potential fit?

And if the Lakers were in position to make a move, should they pull the trigger? of all the teams that Danny listed, I think the Lakers probably make the most sense for just the obvious reasons, right? Like LeBron's been awesome so far, but this is a season that started off with, oh, LeBron's going to be on a minute limit. We don't want them playing more than 28 minutes a night

or 30 or whatever the number was, and then they immediately threw it out the window because they don't have an option. Like, they just don't have a choice. And I think they would rather have a choice. The only way to have that choice is actually bringing somebody else who can create some,

offense as both score or passer do a lot of things at the ball in their hands. DeAngelo Russell is not enough of that. Austin Reeves is not enough of that. Zach Levine would would fill that role. I think it makes a ton of sense. You're all in on the present. You're all in on every day of whatever LeBron's got left before he goes off to make movies. Oh, better movies. See the callback?

Look at that. I hope they're better movies, Howard, than what he made while he was playing. Hey, hey. I thought Space Champ, too, was actually amusing. That was actually all right. So I think, I think the Lakers make. a lot of sense for Zach Levine. Yes, absolutely. I haven't looked at like the actual configurations for a deal, but I think that's a move they should make.

GM, Ra, you saying yes? Obviously, this is just on paper. I mean, on paper in terms of skill sets, do they work and does it make the team better? Because again, I'm with Howard. I don't know what you'd be giving up and trading and what kind of cap situation that puts you in, et cetera. But as a talent to fit with what they've got, to fill some of the voids, you know, and the things that they don't currently have, yeah, I think Zach Levine makes a lot of sense for them. Gives you another guy that can score, create, singularly get buckets if you need to. If offense breaks down, it tends to be kind of the way the Lakers play when push comes to shove anyway.

Yeah, I like Zach to the Lakers. So my question, you just see in terms of mindset, and we'll get to the next thing in a second. This is Verraja, and I want to hear Howard's perspective on this as well. When you talk about a guy like Levine, I don't know how far he's gotten to the postseason, but I don't think he's gotten past like the con. I don't know. He hasn't gotten to the conference finals, I don't believe. Maybe you guys should take that.

But when you juxtapose that with like a Kyrie, which is somebody that the Lakers wanted, and we've always said it would be a good fit on this Lakers team, how much of it when you get to the big show, do you need a guy? And I'm not saying Levine is or isn't this guy, but a guy that has kind of been there before, specifically alongside LeBron or somebody like that,

how much of that are you taking into consideration when you trade for it? If it were a younger talent, I would say you would heavily consider it, right? Because of just general experience, not necessarily finals experience or deep playoff runs, but he just might be green, you know, like a super talent, but maybe hadn't seen or done enough in the NBA to really understand. I wouldn't have any reservations with Zach Levine. You know, some guys don't have, you know, the resume in those times. It's not because they can't perform in those situations.

It's just been circumstantial with the teams they've been on in the situations they've been in. I wouldn't hold that against him, you know? Like, now, if you're telling me I had the choice between two equal talents and one of them had proven that over and over again and one of them hadn't, then, yeah, I'd take the one that had. But I wouldn't worry about Zach Levine in that space. He's not like a young, young guy that you're worried about being able to produce consistently and X, Y, and Z. Like, he showed you he could do that. Howard Powell was only, I think he only, I don't think he only think he wanted to. playoff game before he got to the Lakers, but he was able to be a great piece.

What are the qualities of somebody who, because I'm looking at Levine, he's only played in one Eastern Conference first round. What did Powell do when he did, when he got traded? And how was he such a great fit for the postseason just to start his career? The analogy is kind of this, though, too. It's a guy who's been in the league, who's put up a lot of numbers, who has absolute talent, all-star level talent, but who, who, who for whatever reason either didn't have enough around them, POW and Memphis, Levine in Chicago and before the Minnesota, and or had the kind of talent that when you first drafted him,

you thought, franchise guy, number one guy, guy we build around it, and you realize later, a guy who's probably best as a number two or number three. And that was Powell, right? Like, Powell as the number one in Memphis, was going to get smoked in the playoffs if they made it. POW as number two to Kobe, and with a really sound cast around them,

we think of him in a completely different light. And he was able to rise to the occasion and be that really important number two to Kobe. And on certain nights carry them and play a really huge, important role on championship teams. Zach Levine, it's not the same player, it's not the same trajectory, but just the vague outline of a guy with all-star level talent

who would be much better next to LeBron. Everybody's better next to LeBron. Kyrie Irving had no postseason record to speak of until LeBron arrived. And then Kyrie forces his way away from LeBron and Kyrie's never had anywhere near that level of success since there's a lot more of those guys than there are LeBron or Kobe's in this league.

Yeah, I'll throw two more at you, not to take anything away from them as players, but Chris Bosch and Kevin Love. You know, like number one, Number one's for sure and getting it done, but probably not going to win a championship or go deep into the playoffs with them as your number one, you know? Next team on Danny's list.

We're going to my wheelhouse, the Golden State Warriors. I guess I'll go first. I think that the biggest thing of the Warriors need is secondary scoring. It would basically be a market correct after they let Jordan Poole leave, right? Probably a bit more efficient. Probably will turn the ball over less, right? but I think it would help the wars tremendously, but I think they got a lot more issues than just secondary scoring.

What do you think? Yeah, I don't think it's a fix-all, but I think it makes them exponentially better. You know, we talk about them sometimes looking their age and the team, you know, even though they play with great pace and stuff like that, like you get a really dynamic wing score that I wouldn't really have concerns with him playing in their style. you know what I mean like I think I think he's versatile enough to be able to do that

yeah I like him he see there's gonna be I'm gonna like him in almost every place you say because I think he's that type of offensive guy like doesn't always have to have the ball in his hands you know what I mean can can get out and go he gets on top of the rim he shoots the shit out of it like I like Zach for them I like it better conceptually for the warriors than I do in actuality and it comes down to this like if they'd been able to swap Jordan pool for Zach Levine a few months ago I would have been like yeah Absolutely, of course. Of course you do that. You know, a hundred times out of a hundred. But they trade a pool for Chris Paul. And this is important because when you actually look at trade matching, salary matching,

Zach Levine's making 40 million and really the only way to make this work, assuming you're not trading Steph, Clay, Wiggins, and Dremond. You have to trade Chris Paul to make this work. There's no combination, like, unless you're stacking together like Gary Payton the second and Kavon Lutie and Kumig and like you'd have to stack up on. almost everybody else. So it has to be based around Chris Paul almost for certain. Maybe there's a three-team deal where you can avoid that. But I don't know. Like, like, Zach Levine's going to score a lot more than is younger and has more years left and all that other stuff.

I'll throw the question back to you guys. If the cost of getting Zach Levine is Chris Paul. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.

Being Roger didn't want Chris Paul in the war is in the first place, Howard. What do you do? I kind of like, but I like what I've seen so far of Chris Paul. with them. And, you know, especially given that at some point, you know, Steph's going to get banged up again. I trust Chris Paul to run this team. And I like when Curry's been playing off the ball when he's been on the court with Chris Paul, they're not falling off a cliff every time Steph goes to the bench because they have Chris Paul. Does Zach Levine stabilize them in that same way? I don't know. I know it sounds crazy that I'm opting for the 38-year-old or at least

leaning that way over the 28-year-old. But I don't know. It's not automatic for me. That's fair. There's some valid points there in terms of stability with the offense, you know, running and whatnot. I would argue, though, that while it might not run the same in terms of like, hey, man, it's going to look pretty and we're going to have guys in our spots and he might not have

command of the offense from a one perspective necessarily, it's going to be more stable because he's going to be able to carry you offensively in the stepless minutes. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So, like, you know, I hear you and you. you've made your case for Chris, and I have no beef with Chris. I just,

I think if you, if you drop Zach Levine into that, it would, it would be way more impactful to the naked eye than Chris is. And maybe that's not fair to Chris because there's a lot of things that go, you know,

go unnoticed by the naked eye, or the untrained eye, I should say, in a basketball game that lead to winning. But I think, I think Zach upgrades them. I think if you put Zach Levine on this, Warriors team. It's basically a better version of the 2020 team, right? I mean, that's at least how

they would put it, right? You have secondary scoring instead of Jordan Pool. You have a Zach Levine. Yeah, Chris Paul has been great for the, specifically with the young guys like comming and all these things. But at this point, he kind of is who he is. And like, in terms of like, and I hate to, I hate to go at the age thing, Howard and Rajah, but he's getting a little long on the tooth. And a third point on that, Howard, part of the reason why the Warriors got Chris Paul was in the event that things went haywire, they'd have someone in that salary slot to make a move. So that in itself would be like, okay, Chris is the first one to dip if a trade does come up. So we'll see. Next team on the list.

The Toronto Raptors, Rajabelle. the Toronto Raptors I mean look again I told you that I think Zach Levine works in a lot of places like I think he works

because of his versatility and his ability to kind of score the ball either with it or without it but I don't want I don't want Zach to go to Toronto I want him to win yeah that's what I'm saying like I don't want him to go to that one

didn't like counter for doubt him to his goal you're talking about the Lakers or the Lakers or the golden state. Now we talk about Toronto. I don't want to go to Toronto. I mean, as a city, Toronto ain't a bad city.

I want to get that clear. No, don't get that clear. No. All to everybody in Toronto? The old slander to Toronto is a city. As a basketball situation right now. Yes. I don't necessarily want Zach.

I think, you know, Zach makes a lot of people better. I want the drivers to be good. I'm trying to go to Toronto. What's up? All right. We all love Toronto as a city. I don't want to leave.

The Raptors have to pick a direction before you could say that he makes sense there. I don't know what their direction is. Like what is their timeline? What's their horizon? Like, are they ready to be all in on winning now with Scotty Barnes as their new young centerpiece? Like, does that, I don't know. I just don't think it makes sense for where they are right now and considering they also have not really picked a clear direction. Are they veering young and kind of pseudo rebuilding?

Are they trying to be a playoff team again immediate? I don't know what the Raptor's actual agenda is. And until we know that, I'm not sure it makes sense to take a 28-year-old, you know, score and throw him on there. You get a guy who's already disgruntled in a very similar kind of situation. Like, what do you know what I mean? Like what do you take him into that and tell him, hey, man, like, yeah, here. I know you just left that and you weren't happy in that, but come to this.

No, man, like that. I don't see the, I don't, and I just don't see the Raptors making that kind of move. That, like, that doesn't make any sense to me. I will say it's not even just for the Raptors. When you're a team that's on the rise or trying to figure out who you are, you can't press the button too early. Like that trade is always going to be out there. Not just not specifically talking about the Raptors, but just in general.

You don't want to have the trade. You don't want to have the trade too early. Last one. And I think we're in the same boat on this one. But I just want to just, this is just a fun, this is just fun to do. The Indiana Pacers Howard Beck. Did we skip past Miami? Because Miami was, Miami was on Danny Chows list too.

Let's go on Miami first. Miami Heat. So the heat of the other one that make a lot of sense. Yeah, the heat makes a lot of sense for all the same reasons that the Lakers do, right? And in their case, it's like their primary scorers. Like Jimmy and Bam are like guys who can score a lot, but they're not like, they're not scoring machines in that kind of way. And then the thing that the heat that's been their Achilles heel for the last few years is

great defensive team and Jimmy can turn it up 17, not. in the postseason, but you don't really have the most dynamic offensive array. And Zach Levine would bring that to them. And, you know, obviously they were in the dame sweepstakes. They lost. They're obviously looking for another, another offensive piece. Again, I have not played with the trade machine on this one. It doesn't necessarily cost them hero. Can you do it just with Lowry and other pieces? But yeah, I like Zach living with Miami. I do too. But interesting, like, you know, Tyler Heroes at 20, 23 a game right now.

Like he scores the ball. But I'm with you, Howard. Like I, you know, why does Tyler Hero get so much like dog? I would, he's doing what he can do, man. No. I mean,

you know, this is that weird. Like when it comes to those things of like, you know, you're in the Miami market. Rogers is always, he's a trade piece every summer and I get wide and all these things. But damn,

dude, he's a really good basketball player. He is a really good basketball player. They're just, I mean, you're in a league. full of really good basketball players and, you know, like really good and then a bunch and then great and some phenomenal. So like they're going to be dudes that are better than you. And the Miami

Heat, you know, if the Miami Heat are steadily shopping him for someone like Dame, they're telling you, like we don't see that as his upside. There's no shame in that. Like Dame is a, Dame is a phenomenal player. Now, you know, I don't know that they would consider Zach Levine for him. But they're the ones that see him every day in practice. They're the ones that I would trust in in kind of their evaluation of it. I personally think Zach Levine is a is an upgrade in the sense that I can, I know that he does that night in and night out. Like Tyler Hero, it's not his fault. He just hasn't had the opportunity of the platform to really do that consistently. He may turn into that. I don't see him every day. But I think right now, Zach Levine is more ready if you're trying to

match up a window with with uh jimmy butler and then bam out of bio is kind of that third wheel i think jack levin is more ready to to consistently contribute in a way that could get you to where you're trying to go not saying that tyler couldn't get to that a very good offensive player so last one on the list indiana i i'm going to say that they're in the same boat as toronto in that way right where like they're not ready to push the button yet in my opinion i don't think they're ready to push that button. It will be fun, but they got too much

shit that they need to figure out before they go make a trade like this. Am I right about that, Howard? Yeah. Yeah. First of all, it's not a very pacers kind of move. That's like going and trading for like the mid-career Max guy who's, you know, an all-star, but

not a superstar or just that splashy kind of deal that kind of looks good on paper but has some potential caveats. like that's not a pacer's kind of move. That's not the way that that team has generally operated. They're also, yeah, they're young in their kind of their time horizon building around Halliburton. And, you know, they've got Benedict Matherin who's got a lot of promise, obviously.

They've got guards. Like, I don't know. Like, Zach Levine doesn't feel like the right player at the right time for that team. He'd be interesting there, but I don't see that as being the right team. Yeah, he's got to go somewhere where there's a clear, established one. Do you know what? He's got to go somewhere where the star is in place.

And that's going to probably match up with, you know, where they've been in the playoffs recently and kind of looking to get over the hump in some regard. But you don't want him going in there and taking the shots away from your burgeoning and star. And as those guys are trying to kind of spread their wings and come into their, their potential championship type of window, like you're not trying to stagnate that at all for those guys.

So he doesn't fit those situations. I agree. It's interesting what you said, though, Howard, about just how Larry Bird and the Indiana Paysers just build a team, right? What is your experience on how they do that, right? What is the philosophy that Larry and everyone else in that organization, how do they usually go about team building? Now, whether it was Larry Bird in the past or like Kevin Pritchard and Chad Buchanan. Now, like, and I think a lot of this has to do with the ownership too. Like under the Simons, like their their thing has always been like they weren't going to tear down they were never going to be a tanking team they did they were like the years that the paces were really bad it was by happenstance they never

chose to be bad uh they always felt like they wanted to be competitive but they always have had kind of this kind of conservative approach where they're they're going singles and doubles not not swinging for the fences and even things like you know when they got uh sabonis and oladipo from oklahoma that that was a pretty big trade and a trade that set them up for years to come and eventually sets them up for the sub bonus for Halliburton swap, right? Like you can trace their current promise back several years to that deal. But that deal was one that was forced. Paul George said, I'm not going to resign.

I want out. I'm going to leave next summer as a free agent. And they preemptively traded him to Oklahoma and got two really good players. But that's the way they operate. They're opportunistic and they're more reactionary than, I don't say they're never proactive. but they're not the kind of, I don't know how far back you'd have to go. Maybe all the way back to like the deal for Jalen Rose way back when, right?

But even at that time, you had Reggie Miller that you already had as your foundation. And they were ready, they were a really good team that needed a couple more pieces. It was time for them to push the buttons. Yeah, it's just they, it's not, it's not their history. It's not the way of that franchise.

Howard Beck's at his fucking bad. on motherfucking Monday. This is bag, bro. I might have had one extra cup of coffee this morning before we got on. Hey, hey, keep that regimen. You drop 35 and 7 today, bro. On high volume. On high volume.

All right, man. That's been another edition of motherfucking Monday. Chelsea Gray is up next. Talk to y'all next week. Bye. And we are back with Chelsea Gray. Every time I see Chelsea, I feel like I tell her this story, but I have to tell this to the listening audience.

I remember the first time I went to go watch her play. It was when my Berkeley High Yellow Jackets went out to Stockton to go play her. Same areas of Stockton team. And we saw this, there was this girl that was supposed to go to Duke. And we was like, all right, all right. And we thought we was hot shit. And we went out to Stockton to go watch them play. And the first game, the first possession gets off the tip.

The girl from Duke, where he was about to go to Duke, takes one dribble into half court and shoots a three and makes it. And then gets a steal on the next possession. Takes another dribble to the same spot and hits a three from just the side of half court. And I was like, oh, she's serious. and we ended up losing the game. Berkeley High did that. What the hell were you on back in the day, Chelsea? What were you trying to prove?

What the hell was going on during your high school career? Like, what were you doing? I was just trying to hoop and trying to make it, man. One step at a time. It was a cool environment though, playing for Sam. It was such a small gym. It was a shooter gym for sure. I was thoroughly impressed.

And it was a foreshadow to the great career that you have had. so far. But I want to extend a congratulations for your third title. It was, it was, it seemed like big revenge energy from the Aces this season. What was it, what was this season like for you guys? And how was it to, to go through a season like this where you, you know, everybody's talking about the super teams and everybody is talking about how the team in New York is going, is, is the new team on the block. How much did y'all take that to heart? And how much did you guys did you guys take that? Was that a real energy shift? Did you guys take that personally last summer when all of the talk and did that just kind of manifest in the finals? Man, Logan, that question, I feel

like it's so layered. I think beginning, I mean, beginning this season, right, there was like an excitement and an energy around the potential of going back to back in Vegas. I always say that Vegas is a big, small town. Everybody comes out. Everybody at least comes to Vegas once in a summer. It's just the spot to be whether you're coming for. Now, Vegas is being known as like a sports town and people are flying in for sports, right? Before it was like the casinos and entertainment and meetings, but now, like, people are coming for sports.

And so to be one of the first to win World Championship in Las Vegas, like, it was huge. And so coming into the next season, like, we knew what we wanted to add. we needed more pieces to be able to get it done the following season. So we added Candace Parker, and another one we added was Alicia Clark. We added Kayla George. We added some good pieces, but like the noise got real loud when we made those big signings. And so, but we kept like, we, us as a franchise, us as a team, we were like quiet. We tried to quiet the noise the entire season.

It was a lot of media saying that this is a super team, this is this. this is a rivalry. One, a rivalry starts like after some years, right? So like they kind of put a rivalry on our matchup before we even played the game. And but it was cool like looking down, like it was foreshadowing for the championship matchup. And it's what everybody wanted from women's basketball fans of this basketball, other, other athletes in our league. And there was just so much noise of like so many people talking shit of like, okay, especially when Candice went down earlier in the season. They don't have this.

They don't have this. But I think what's just stood, like, our locker room and our team apart, like, we generally find joy in others' people's success. I always say this. I can't tell you how many times we were happy for another person's accomplishment and just as mad when they didn't get the award. So, like, our team and our locker room was so tight. And we were just like, let's just bottle this up.

And then when we win, we can talk our shit. And so now that we won and we're talking our shit, you know, we ruffling a little bit more feathers entering for next season. But it was all worth it. When you kind of alluded to it, but going into that postseason, right, there obviously is a chip on your show. I went to a game during Summer League. I forgot how you guys were playing.

But I do remember just the energy. And it seemed like the equivalent of like the 95, 96 Bulls. Like you guys were on a mission. to do something. And when you guys get to the playoffs and Asia is playing so well and going into it, when she doesn't get that MVP, do you guys, is it an extra layer to that of like,

okay, we need to, now we're going to show everybody who we are. Like, what was the, when you guys got the reaction that she is not the MVP and it goes to Brianna Stewart, it just adds an extra layer of nuance to that,

that energy that you guys have, what was your reaction when you guys heard of the news and how did you guys use that into the postseason and then go into a liberty matchup where you guys have more to prove what was that like yeah for me i was pissed um i was hurting for uh she had played her like some of her best basketball that season like she was like she always uses the words right top tier like she was top tier all season. She was our anchor defensively. She, I mean, she did everything

when we asked on both ends of the floor and her numbers. And she was doing it in a less minute. I think when you look at the entire statistical like board or whatever, like she was doing and being so efficient and it might be five to ten less minutes than other people that were considered for the award.

And so when we saw that, Becky even made a statement like, please don't punish her. for us, like, winning so many games that we take around the game, right? It was kind of like, we want to have her back, you know? Like, she deserves this award, right? And so we said that. I know I did in the media.

I still am upset that she got a fourth place vote. I still need somebody to stand tall up who voted for that. I also want people that, like, stand on their votes. Like, who did you vote for? Let's make it kind of public. They do that in the NBA. They definitely have. They'll put the list out in the NBA.

They put you on the summer jam screen. Exactly. I'm just like, where's our summer screen? Like, we need to put our thing up. Like, okay, who is this person that we even asked in the press conference? Alicia Clark was like, who here in this room voted Asia Wilson fourth and nobody stood up? So we still, I personally still don't know and I want to know. But going back to like your question, we got into that series and there was just like a laser focus because winning takes care of.

everything. You get much more when you win a championship, when you win a championship, when you win at the Olympics, when you win this. I'm not saying that individual accolades don't mean anything, but the amount of championships that you're able to put on your resume,

it means a whole lot. And so us taking care of business, it quieted at the noise. And she won WBA Finals MVP. She was our MVP for sure, the whole league. What's it like playing with her? I mean, I've seen her play a couple of times in person. Saw her play against Brianna Stewart, and I came up to see you guys at Sue Bird's last regular season game.

So see her play against Brianna Stewart. And it just seems like she's just, obviously, she's one of the greatest all-time bigs that we have. But, you know, you see it on NBA side with Yolkich. And she seems of that ilk where she makes everybody around her better and makes the game easier for others. How was that to play alongside her? and how does she kind of help elevate not only your strengths, but the rest of the strengths of the team? I think it's like threefold, right?

One thing is that she's gotten progressively better every single year. She's added something to her game every single season, whether that's being able to take more people off the dribble going to her right hand or like her jumper is like knocked down and it's efficient. And she makes quick and aggressive moves. So she's gotten better every single year. and that's what you want out of a player. That's what you want out of your franchise player, out of your athlete.

But you keep adding to your game. So, like, the next year they come in like, okay, we got this figured out, and you added something else. So now you keep people on their toes and keep going to the drawing board. That's one thing. Two, defensively, like she's taking so many, like, steps. She's back-to-back defensive player the year while still being efficient on the offense event

and still on top of people's scouting report. That's really, really hard to do, to be able to do that on both ends and being the best shape. of your life being able to do that. And then third, she, like, thoroughly is a good person. And I think people, it comes back around to people who are good to others. And she pours into her teammates. She makes my life a lot easier.

Her screens are on point. Her hands are great. There's been so many passes where it's probably, I'm darting it to the back of somebody's face. There's a play in, I remember vividly, in the finals. And she's rolling down the paint. And JJ is going back like this with a, her head and I pass it right here and Asia's like looking to see where the path is going and she catches it. Not all people can catch those types of passes. It's our connection as a point

guard and a post, but her ability and her hands and her like timing is really, really good. But I think the best thing about her is like her personality and her warmth. Her genuinely one of the best for other people. It's infectious. I mean, you know, you left my sparks in 2021. You know, that really hurt. That really, really hurt. But like when you see, when you see her from afar, like what made you want to play with her in that incident? Did you have a moment where you wanted to do it? And also when you got there, what was the moment when you were like, oh, shit, she's the one. She is actually the one.

That's who I want to play for with. Yeah, it's different when you're like the opponent, right? You're just like, no, I'm not giving her left. No, I'm not letting her shoot that jumper. But then you see somebody that's growing and getting better. They're just like, okay, I need to be a part of that to like be a part of that, like, incline. And then the Aces as a franchise, they were doing something really special. And I think everybody from the outside could feel it, the energy that I felt when I went there for All-Star.

It just was infectious. And being around that organization, the people that helped run it, I was just like, this is somewhere. This is a professional organization that wants to push the needle a little bit further for women's basketball. And so I wanted to be a part of that. And Asia is at the focal point of this franchise. And I was just like, okay, if I'm going to go somewhere, I need to be somewhere with a good post player. Like, my game is pick and roll. Everybody knows that.

I need to be with a player that's going to elevate my game as well. And then I saw that. We just had conversations talking about the city, the franchise, just kicking it and talking. We became friends. And I was like, all right, sign me up. And I told each, I was like, we're going to win. I promise you we're going to win. And, you know, looking back now, we got two.

I got to ask this. How was that parade? What was the parade like? Oh, Bray, lit. I think the, okay, lit is the PG word to do it. Y'all was smack. You guys had a lot of fun. I just looked at a clip with Becky Hammond before we got on this on this pod and the Zoom.

And it was just reliving memories of just in the moment. Can you tell me the best story from the parade that you have that maybe we didn't see like, What was it really like? Because y'all was on, y'all was on a million. And you guys have fun. What did you guys? What was that?

Who was that like? Who was that experience? So much fun. Like from the time, like we met at our practice facility and we were a go for the rest of the day. Like we met, I don't even know, it was probably like around two o'clock and a parade and started like five.

Who's giving shots to who? Who was giving shots to who? Oh man. I was providing this. I was providing to QA Shal. We had some lobo's. We had some loboes in there. We had some lobo's.

had a little bit of Casamigos. Lebron took care of y'all with the lobo. Okay, all right. Yeah, we had to pour some loboes up for the championship. So I'll pour us some shots. We had a team shots and making sure that we were like going back to back, like winning one championship, but going back to back it's another damn level. So I was like, all right, we don't have to do it a little bit of different.

We did it back to back shots. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we are like on our way to like the parade on our bus. It was lit. Like we were listening to music, like talking, like going back to memories. It's so funny, like we got to the parade. We all did our speeches, and it was fun. It was like great.

The crowd was awesome. Like I just love the vibe of like the city of Vegas when we're coming down and going to our stage. And so we're there and two chains is flight gets delayed. And we're just like, man, like that's, we wanted to see him perform and be up there performance. So we had actually gone back to our bus. It's like, dang, he's not going to make it. But we told the fans to wait. And so we went back to our bus.

We might be out of here. We heard that he landed. We sprinted back to the stage. We were just like, all right, let's get on stage. Let's get active. Let's get in our mode. And it was a great way to cap the night. But like the timing of everything, it took 45 minutes just for us to all gather on the bus.

And then by the time we gathered on the bus, he had landed. And he was coming straight there. We were just like, all right, now we really got to stay for two chains. He came out just to do our like our parade performance. And the crowd stayed. it was electric. Like, it was a vibe. And so it was just awesome to, like, cap it that way and all together.

I just love the partnership between Vegas and you guys. And obviously that has to do with, you know, your ownership and things like that, who they take care of you in a lot of ways. And we'll get to that in a second. But how is the marriage between Vegas and this team specifically? Because I, you've been a champion before you got to Vegas. But what's the difference between having a championship? in another city, Los Angeles, or a place like Vegas where, I mean, the currency is partying.

And that's, you all know how to party there. What is the difference in how a championship celebration is in those two different ways that you've been a champion? My experience is that sometimes they got lost in the shuffle in LA. There's so many professional sports, right, in LA. You know, it's gone to the legacy of like the Lakers and, you know, you have the clippers, you have football, you have hockey, you have everything. And so winning in 2016, one, I was younger and I was just like, tell me where to be, tell me where to go, and I'll just be there. I'm just happy to have a ring in my second year of the league.

And then flash forward in Vegas, right? I said this earlier, it's a big, small town, so everybody knows when, where, and who you are at all times. and then you lump it and you bring in the Raiders the Golden Knights like you have everybody there in Vegas and just the the sports culture

that's building in Vegas it feels good to be a part of like a community that really embraces our franchise it's a testament to our front office like Mark getting out into the community Nikki Fargus getting out in the community and bringing different groups to our games just to experience them

like I said, everybody comes to Vegas, whether it's other athletes, entertainers, singers, like rappers, like everybody comes to Vegas. And a lot of times when they're in Vegas and in the summer, they want to just show up and come to a game. And so it brings different personalities and different people to draw into our game. And that's what we need to have our game, bro. Well, it's funny because I would, I come to Vegas every summer, obviously, for Summer League. And one of the gripes that I had was usually during summer league,

league until like the last couple of years is the Aces wouldn't have a homestand during Summer League and I'm like this is the best time to do it everybody's pulling up like what are we doing it was terrible it was terrible we were on the road we were just like dang we missing the Summer League championship game like we want to go over there and go watch the game too like some of our homes and stuff are playing or just like the whole NBA is in Vegas we're coming to see that we're trying to see an ACE's game what are we doing here I'm glad that we changed is that? Yeah, man.

It's a way to cookie crumble a couple of times, like just the timing of schedule. And I don't know, that's probably something they have to discuss. But, yeah, we love being able to be in town when Summer League was happening this season. What is it like? And we talk about Asia, but you've also been someone that, obviously, you have carved your niche out as one of the best players of all time in the W. you, but you have always kind of played the star supportive role, right? With Candace and now with Asia, as a person that, I mean, my first impression of you was you were the star that's about to go to Duke and you're this person that has the lion's share of basketball, you know, throughout the first part of your basketball life. What was it like for you to kind of adjust that thinking and be of support wild of a Candace Parker or of an Asia Wilson?

what was it like, you know, kind of twists in your mind and be like, I have to be in supportive. I am not the best player on the team anymore. I'm not considered the first option. How were you, how did that mentally have to adjust to that part of your game? Honestly, it really wasn't something I really thought about in the pros. I wanted an opportunity. My rookie year was tough. I was in and out of like playing a little bit.

Like there, I just wanted an opportunity to showcase like my ability. and being able to play the game. And so I got that opportunity when I was traded to LA in 2016. And even then I had one game where I didn't play. And I was just learning. I was like a sponge, like all these bets. Like I had Elena Beard, I had Candace Parker, I had a NECA, Aguamakeet,

like all these stars and players feeding into me to become the best player that I can be. And learning from them. and so much that I learned from them, I took with me to Vegas to be able to pour that into other people. And so when you talk about this mentality, I've been great with it. Like, it's made me great.

It's allowed me the opportunity to make them great as well. I think there's moments and times where I'm able to push buttons and push people to kind of fulfill their potential, but like make them better in that moment. I don't care if you got an inch better, you got better. And it may be off of a conversation, it may be off a play that I called, it may be something. But it allowed me to expound on different parts of my game that I didn't know.

My IQ now is at the top of it's ever been. And I know I would think the game and see the game, but it's being around those vets and having those conversations that now it's like, I'm hungry to like get better in that way. I think your mind and mentally, like there's always a way. Like physically sometimes, like there's like these days you just don't have it. But, like, mentally, there's ways in which you can impact a person's life or a game that can be beneficial for both of you guys or, like, change people's trajectory, right? My trajectory coming to league was different than how it, like, how it has panned out from, like, injuries and college and everything. And so I felt like throughout my career, I've impacted people's careers and lives. And so that's what, like, fulfills me and allows me to be like, okay, yeah, I'm leaving this game.

better than I found it. And I'm having fun doing this shit. Like, this is, this is amazing. Like, at top of my game career and having fun with it and enjoying life and chilling with my teammates and going on stage with throwback cars, like, what? This is, like, it's a vibe from this little kid that, you know, grew up shooting in Oakland, California and I'm like with my brother, you know? How did you, like, would you ever thought to you because you had injuries to start, right?

like how do you how do you how did you get even your body to this point and like what can you i really want you to be like really honest with your journey with you know your injuries how do you like what is that like on the day to day to even just maintain right now right like where you have these injuries not only like play through the injuries but like play at a high level what was that journey like from the beginning of your career to now how was that how have you kind of like known your body more from now till then it's been a journey man it's been crazy. Like, I talk about vets. Like, it's not just about mentally in the game. It's like, I would follow a land of beer around. Like, what's you eating today? Like, because I made, like, the way, like, how long you've sustained, like, your body. And I want to be a pro as long as least as long as you have. So, okay, you eat salmon. I'm going to order the salmon too. With the salad, all right, I'll get the wriggled it to. And so, like, now, I would say, like, the trade to, in 2016, LA, it changed my life. Like, it changed everything in my career. I was able to like semi like come home.

My wife is like from Southern California and so able to be around her family a little bit more. It just changed everything for me from being in Connecticut. And I'm so thankful that they took a chance on me. I was watching the draft and like the, you know how you see like before the draft like, okay, this is the mock and where people are going to go. My name was constantly going down. I was like, you better put that shit back up. Like I still got. I still got something in the day.

Put my shit back up there, man. But I was just like, all right, I'm going down. I understand, like, at the time, like, I'm a 21-year-old kid. Like, I don't know why it's going down. I'm just like, man, I still got it, you know? But Connecticut took a chance of me, and that's something that I'll, like, I'll cherish for the rest of my life because it awarded me an opportunity to do what I'm doing now

and the person and the player that I am now. But it was hard to figure my body out. and like my structure and my system, it just operates and runs a little bit differently. So I had to kind of figure that out. How do you, like, how do you, like, maintain? Like, do you have to do different exercises? Like, how do you, how do you like, even with your knee and even, you know,

we'll talk about your injury from a couple months ago in a second, but like how do you just even prepare for a day to day? What is the day to day like to practice and preparation for an actual game? It's kind of like programming me of like what my warm up looks like. I'm so in tune with my body now. I'm like, okay, my knee's a little achy, but I think it's stemming from, you know, my hips or it's stemming from my ankle. It was a little bit like so in tune with it and understanding that, you know,

your body is your work, especially as an athlete. So if you don't have that right, you know, everything else isn't going to follow. I work with Fabrice. He's my PT osteo that here it up. in Beverly Hills, and I've been working with him since I left college, and he's been my guys for a year. And so he kind of set the foundation of what I should feel like to feel good out there and to go play. So I do all of those things warming up practice and warming up for games and mentally understanding what's wrong or what I need, where and when. So during it throughout

the course of the season, I lift, I make sure I'm eating right. And it's really like a feel in my body Like some days I'm just like, hmm, I may need to just chill, but some days I feel like, okay, I need to get in the gym because I need like to refresh and like wake up my body a little bit. So it's really just being locked in and tuned in making sure I'm in the best shape possible. So we talked about Los Angeles a little bit in your time there. How did, and I really need to ask this question, just as a resident fan who's kind of teetering right now, how did we get from 2016 when you come into a championship to you wanting to leave. And under the circumstances, you had to leave for context, it was not a great, it wasn't great in 2021, the circumstances.

And, you know, you go from being a champion to playing under a guy like Derek Fisher who benches, you know, the franchise, the face of the team and a playoff game. it seemed like it just was an erosion ever since 2016. In your eyes, what happened from the team that you got traded to to wanting to leave? How did you get from that point? That's a great question. Nobody's ever really asked me that question. It's cool. I guess from my perspective, right, that's all I can speak from.

In 2016, it was such a close-knit group, like the people that we had, like our locker room was tight. It was a great environment. And just like we had fun and cherished our time with each other. We went back to the finals in 2017. Different feel. And it's not surprising that we did. I'm still upset that we did not win because I should have four rings to my name, at least from that 2017 finals.

But the feel was just a little bit different. So I'm not surprised that we did. And I went like looking back on it, hindsight, like 2020, right? But I think what it was for me, and it wasn't like sudden. It was the like it was over time. I feel like the direction in which I wanted my career to go, where I wanted my family to go, where I saw myself was going in two different directions, right? And I thought I was going to end my career in L.A. I was like, okay, this is kind of home base.

Like, I got my wife's family here. Like, I'm on, like, hours drive to home, like, to the bay. Like, I'm able to, like, do both. Damn, you get from the Bay to L.A. in an hour? Damn, dog. You're pushing. I don't want to drive in the car with you. Flight, flight, flight.

Flight, my bad. Flight, my bad. So I really thought that, like, in 2017, I was like, okay, like, we went, I went back to the finals, like my 30 in the league. Like, I'm at least. to be like, we're about to go again. But I felt like we were just on two different journeys. And so when I felt that it was staring away from who I wanted to be as a player,

a person, professional, a family person, I felt like it was time for a change. And that's why I went to Vegas because it was going in the direction in which I saw, like, basketball going and as humans as people. And the player personnel and stuff, that's going to be changes and there's going to be years where you don't win. if everybody won in every year, people would have so many rings, right? But, but, like, it just wasn't going in line for me. And so I had to make change. It was one of the hardest

decisions I've ever had to make. And, like, looking back on it, I like, tears were, like, I was shedding. What was a moment when you decided, like, I'm leaving? I'm going. It was in Spain. It was in Spain. I was overseas. I was actually having conversations with Candace because it was, like, that was, like, my closest friend. And, like, we were having conversations like, man, we're not going to play together again? Like, we can't run this back. She was thinking about leaving as well to go to Chicago. Yeah, we were having conversations the whole time.

Like, we were just like, all right, like, how are we thinking about free agency? How are we thinking about that? And they decided not to pour me. And so it allowed me to be able to talk to other teams and have conversations. And so once that kind of door opened, I was able to really get down to like, all right, where do you see me in like the next two to five years in your franchise, with your franchise and where it's trajectory of the city

and the franchise going. And so I called Canada's like, I was like, I can't. I'm leaving. I'm signing in Vegas. And like, I cried. Like I cried to my wife. I was like, well, you go,

this is the end of something that we thought was going to be everything. And that was the hard part of saying goodbye to LA. Yeah. It's funny because like, I want the same week that I went to see you guys play this over the summer. I also went to a Sparks game.

And it was night and day, just even the environment with the sparks, right? Where, you know, you guys, the stadium is packed. Obviously, you guys have the facility, but the stadium is packed in Vegas and then in L.A. It's just, you know, they're still doing renovations just in the middle. It's very clear that that organization, at least from, you know, a bird's eye view that I have, that they aren't as invested in. their team as Vegas is. And I guess I want to use that anecdote to ask the question of like,

Vegas is obviously at the forefront of even with the training facility and all these things. Like how have they been an example for how you, the future of the W and how you guys kind of want every team to have that, right? And you need that investment in all these things. But like how much is Vegas kind of the future in a lot of ways of how you want the league to be?

man we ruffle feathers from top to damn bottom like from our tweets our tweets to our videos that we do our talks on like our whole team took over the damn interview like post game interview for the championship like we just like want to push the needles so much further man there's just there's like as far as we've come there's still room for growth. And I think that's the, like, the beauty of our game and the beauty of our franchise. Like, Mark Davis has went or came to the Aces organization and I had conversations from every, with every single player. And he's brought back alumni. Like, he's brought back like a feel of like a family environment in Vegas. And he is in those meetings and it's just like, well, why not? Well,

why not? It's kind of been fresh and nice to have somebody that's come from a different. sports organization of like an NFL team and then to the WNB like well why not? Like it's just asking the question why not why can't that? Why don't we? And then you have and then you you know you handle

Mark Davis and then you come around the corner and you're talking Nikki Fogger's well no this doesn't seem right for our ladies to want to do this and that and then you go again and it's like Becky come from an NBA and it's like well we did this over here why can't we do that and it's like every single tier and every single

tier and every single person that you talk to wants to grow our game and wants to grow our franchise, wants to grow the WMBA. And it comes down to the players and we're just like, yeah, what they said. Like, why can't we do this? And it's been beautiful, the kind of seat that we're,

we don't always have conversations from the players to the top, but we're so in line of like our messaging and what we want that it feels like we're just one big unit trying to push the new forward. One of the best coach I've ever had. And I say that with, like, power and, like, in that. She does a great job.

I was just talking to the assistant coach Tyler Marsh about this during the season. She does a great job of, like, holding people accountable, trusting that they'll get it done and allowing room for growth and errors. And adding, like, personality and flair and flavor to, like, our practices, our games. Like, there's been so many times I remember last year, like, in game. of us trying to win a championship. A song comes on and you hear Sidney Colson like, like I'm in the huddle like this, like,

hearing the game. Sydney Colston is a character. I'm here. And I'm like, Sydney, you hear that? And I'm like, and then she's doing the play. And I'm just like, this is the vibe and the energy that we love. And like when we look back on these games,

like that's what we're going to remember. Like, I can't remember what place she drew up. But I remember in the huddle, like, we were vibing and we went to go get a bucket. Like, it's just the fun environment that we feel and when people see it, they're just like, is that real? And it's so real. Like, it's amazing to like play for.

And like there's a culture that Becky has built that has allowed us to do that. And when you have a coach at the top that holds people accountable, but also loves and have fun with it. And I mean, it's been a great recipe so far. So you talk about just the NBA. raising the bar, the WMBA raising the bar, there is a Bay Area team coming, right? And, you know, Joe Lakers is also of the ilk of Mark Davis and that he is going to spend a lot of money on this, this, this new team.

I'm not recruiting you to come to the Bay Area, but I'm not not doing it. How did you feel when you, when you heard about the Bay team? And how do you feel overall just about expansion, right? Like, this Portland, I think, is going to have a team soon. Toronto, we saw the response to the game in Toronto. Like, first of all, what were your reaction to the Bay team? And how do you feel about expansion overall with the W? One, the Bay Area team is great.

I always say, like, if a Bay gets a team, it's going to change a lot of different things. Like, people traveling the Bay, they're going to experience it. I feel like until you are in the Bay Area and experience it, it's hard to understand of, like, just the lingo. the way the music, the dance, like everything. People say that about different areas, but, you know, I'm definitely biased. But I think it's going to be a great franchise. The little kid of me was super excited. Like, that's what I always wanted growing up.

You know, you had the Sacramento Monarchs before they closed down. But I wanted something in Oakland. I wanted something in San Francisco. I wanted something right then and there that we can go to. Growing up as a Warriors fan, like I wanted like, to look up and see women that look like me playing in the same arena, right? And so now it's affording that opportunity for younger kids and to be able to do that. So I'm super excited for that that is the city that they chose.

And that's where it's expanding to. Expansion is happening, right? There's no like, okay, we're not doing this. We need to do that and this. They've already taken this step. That expansion is happening. But I think there's a lot of things that needs to have. happen in between there and the growth of our game and the growth of our league and the protection

of our players before we just put all our eggs in expanding and making sure that we have more teams and more roster spots. I definitely think that we need more roster spots and there's people getting cut and not on teams that can be on teams. That should be on teams. But they just can't. I think about Lazia Clarendon like a couple years ago with Minnesota just having to keep on getting hardship contracts, right? Where it would be a soda where you want to, you would want that type of player on your team. And it's,

it's just example. That's one example. Lexi Brown's another example. There's a lot of examples of that, um, to expanding rosters. It's, it's kind of weird how that,

that, that works out. I hope that that gets rectified. Yeah. I, I wholeheartedly like there's teams that they have to make tough decisions and cut good players, um, that can make an impact on teams.

Um, but, when we talk about like revenue sharing and like salary and so that's stuff that we need to take care of that's with the teams that we have now and so that's a whole other podcast or a little discussion that we can have but like um there's stuff we need more private jets in the dubby we need more charter jets but they have to allow that as well so there's just like stuff with our cb8 that needs to be pushed forward before um I feel like I could fully be invested in the expanding expanding uh one of talk about your injury and I got story timing and I get you out of here. How are you right now? What happened? I know there was a foot injury. I saw the clip. You said you heard a pop. What is your diagnosis? What's going on? Are you going to be? What's the rehab process like? What's going on with Chelsea Gray's injury?

It's okay right now. I'm just resting it. Right now, it was my fifth metatarsal. It was the outside of my foot. And it just, it just, it's. It was so much pain, man, when it happened. I was just like, if I could have played, I would have played. And my teammates, they were like, something's wrong. Like, it's really ended. So right now it's in a boot, just recovering and healing. And I'm doing rehab.

There's no really a time table. There's not a rush. I'm in the offseason and going to get my body right and making sure I'm ready for next season. But right now is just recovering. Could I play on it right now? No. Still, to this day, no.

But, I mean, I'm going to be recovering. be ready for next season. Okay, cool. All right, story time with Chelsea Gray. I'm going to give you a name, and I need to tell me your best story. Asia Wilson. Best story? Come on.

That's a loaded question. Best story. Oh, shoot. You put me on the spot with A. There's just so many that's like on court, off court. I remember. Okay, so it's kind of a blend of two of the two.

So we were in Phoenix, right? On an away game and we were just, we had lost, but it was semi-finals. I think it was before game four to push a game five back in Vegas. And it was me, her, and Jackie, and we were like, let's just go E, let's just go do something. like we need to get our mind off of something. Let's go.

Let's go do something. So we found this restaurant. I can't even tell you what the restaurant was. But we decided we were just like, all right, I'm going to have a glass of wine. What you want? What you want to do? And she was like, I'm going to get a ballini. A ballini at the time.

We were just like, what, for dinner? But okay, when I tell you, she smacked so many bellinis before our game. She was going to kill me probably about the story. But I was like, we asked. smacked some wine. I had wine and she had balinese. Listen, if you want us to hoop, send us some any wine company or bellini company out there, send us some. We smack those. Game four, we went out there in hoop. We were just, and we went back to the locker room, like walking back. We were just like, man, it was those bellinis and wine, man. We were bellinis and wine. So to this day,

when we go out like to dinner on the road and I see bellini's, I'm like, hey, we're trying to do it again, we try to run it back because it's like, that's like our connection of like the Bellini and stuff. It's like, we look at each other. We're like, we hooping today. We hoop it's today. I don't know what it was in those bellinis. Shout out to that restaurant in Phoenix.

But that was, that was a good time. Aege was probably like, man, you're giving away how my balinese and what I like to drink. I mean, you're trying to get to a sponsorship. Ayes, you better stop driven. You're trying to get your sponsorship. Okay. Candace Parker. Best story.

Oh. Oh, man. Like, we, like, oh, shoot. I don't know if I have, like, a best story of Canada's, like, that's, like, my, that's my best friend, for real, like, about to see you later today. Let me think. I mean, one of the best performances I've seen in, like,

rowling at team is that 2016 game five finals. Like, she was on another level. Obviously, there was a lot behind it. I mean, I hope everybody, too. tuned into her documentary. But that Game 5 game, and she was on another, she was determined to win and quiet as a noise. I loved it.

What's she like when she's determined? Like, what is it? I've seen it on television and what's a person, but what is she like? I mean, what is it like when you're right there? She said it in her, and tell her that she can't do something,

and that's going to make her try to go do it. And that's the essence of like how she is as a person, as a player, as a mom, like tell her that she can't like do both and do everything and still be great at it and she goes and does that but like we have times where we went on vacation and like artists chats staying up to like 3 a.m just talking about like everything on like drinking wine drinking tequila um she's got me on wine she got me on tequila though she's the one that put me on with that so like we take joy in doing that for sure there's just so many stories i'm like candis i'm just like that's

That's a hard one. That's a hard one. Probably ends up being about tequila and wine. I mean, that's where the best stories are, that's the best addition to a story is tequila and wine. For sure. Last one. Becky Hammond.

Give me your best Becky Hammond story that maybe we haven't seen. What is the story that tells us the listening audience, the essence of Becky Hammond? I'm going to do two parts then. One part is game four. She, like, we're on the verge of, like, winning of last year, game four last year, against Connecticut. We're in Mohegan Sun and, like, the essence of our relationship. I'm looking at her.

She's looking at me. And, like, she's not responding to me of, like, maybe she's in her head or maybe she's doing something. And I yell at Becky. I was like, and to this day, she's like, yeah, I needed it. She goes, I say, Becky, get your shit together. Walk in. Like it was hilarious.

I was like, what are we doing? Get it together. And she's like, look at me. She's like walks down. She walks back and like, she's on. She's like, okay, we're going to do this. This and this. We're in a timeout.

I think that's around the time where I'm talking about like we're in the huddle and we hear music and we're vibe and it's like we got back to us. And then like the second part is it's probably like our nights like dinner or somewhere and we're chilling. And she loves a good glass of wine as well. the very first time I actually met with Becky was around her birthday. It was a birthday.

And there's this Brazilian Steakhouse place in San Antonio that we went to. We go there a lot when we go to Dallas. They have one in Dallas as well. And it was just cool to be around all of her family. And it really showed like her personality or caring of like caring for everyone, allowing everybody in and showing like her greatness on and off the court. Michelle. Chelsea, great, ladies and gentlemen.

First of all, I got to give a shout-out before we get out of here. Shout out to Marie and Tenley, who live in my building, who are huge Aces fans and huge WMBA fans. They're going to listen to this interview. So shout out to them. But thank you so much for coming. We've got to have you on again soon, man. It's always a pleasure when we talk, man.

So thanks coming for coming on. We can't, we cannot talk for a while. You know, it's been a minute. So thank you for having me. I appreciate it. be 21 years and older and president select states. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. LLC.

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