The Ringer NBA Show - How the Heat Are First in the East. Plus, Are the Suns the Best Team in the NBA?

Episode Date: January 31, 2022

Wos is joined by Zach Harper of The Athletic and SiriusXM NBA Radio. First, they break down how the Miami Heat have managed to get to the top of the Eastern Conference even though their stars have missed time (1:51), and how they match up with the other top teams in the East (7:13). Then they discuss the dominance of the Phoenix Suns (17:28) and which teams can compete with the Suns come playoff time (24:32). Host: Wosny Lambre Guest: Zach Harper Production: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, long-time writer with the Atlantic Magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. The latest edition of Weekends with Waz on the Ringer NBA. podcast. I'm your host, Big Waz, aka Waziland, I'm joined by a very special guest today. I know I always say people are very special, but I actually mean it this time. And not just because

his birthday is my boy, Zach Harper of the Athletic, as well as Sirius XM MBA Radio. Welcome to the show, Zach. Thanks for having me. It's, you know, the dynamic duo is back together. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but we're back together. It's back together. They broke us up. They broke us up, man. They broke us up in the most dastardly of ways. But we found our way back, baby. They can never stop us. On today's show, I wanted to talk about, you know,

we're about to be at the All-Star break, so I wanted to talk about the two teams that are at the top of their respective conferences. And of course, those two teams are the Miami Heat and the Phoenix Suns. We'll get into the Phoenix Suns later, who I think have been kind of going, going below the radar and like haven't really gotten attention

for how dominant they've been this season. But first I want to talk about the heat, Zach, because I hadn't even talked to you about the heat this year. Yeah. And I already knew you were on the heat bandwagon. This is the thing. I don't even need to talk to you. And we can get into it because sometimes I've turned on Miami Heat games this season

and I have no idea who these guys are that are playing. Large chunks of the season, out, Bamadabio, Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler's an all-star bona fide. And Bamadabio, if he's not an all-star, he's right there as an all-star level player. They lose two of those guys for two chunks of the season and they just keep chugging along. How have they been able to do that? Spoh, man.

Spoh, like Spowl might be, I know you're not supposed to say this because Greg Popovich still the greatest. Spout might be the best coach in the league. Like, he's just, he's unbelievable because, you know, Bam has missed more games than he's played this season. Jimmy's missed like 18 games. Like it's, you know, it's, they have some significant absences and yet

this team just keeps winning. Like it doesn't matter who they plug and play. Like, and I know people get tired of the hashtag heat culture and all that, but that's real. Like, here are some players who have played more minutes this season than BAM out of bio. Gabe Vincent,

Max Struce, Caleb Martin. They've all played more minutes than BAM. And that team is at the top of the conference. How is that possible? Like, they bring in this dude, Omeri Yert 7, who, like, all of the sudden was dominating the, you know, the summer league. And it's like, oh, maybe this guy can beat, boom, you plug him in when BAMs out,

it's good. Dwayne Deadman revived. Like, he's good. Like, PJ Tucker comes in and is great. They got Tyler Hero back on track after, you know, maybe feeling himself a little too much going into last season. Like, and even, like, Duncan Robinson can't hit a three-point shot at home. Like, he's great on the road.

He's terrible at home. but they just find ways to win. Their offense, despite those absences top five, the defense's top seven. Like, they're just, it's one of the most, if not the best run organizations in the league. Yeah, and I do, because we haven't mentioned Kyle Lowry. And, you know, I'm always singing the praises of Kyle Lowry because, again, I think a lot of the success just has to do with this guy just understands winning basketball. Like, at every possession, every second of the game, he understands what is,

the best possible position for his team to be in. Who needs to shoot it? Who needs to get it where? When do you need to keep giving it to a hot hand? When do you identify a mismatch? He is just on it constantly. I do want to talk to you about just Kyle Lowry season, just generally. Yeah, it's funny because, like, his numbers,

I mean, I guess you would expect his numbers to be down from a scoring standpoint because they don't really need him to do that anymore. He's not really hitting shots like he normally would. But the leadership, like, it sounds so cliche, but it's exactly what the Knicks we're hoping to get with Kemba, right? Except it's working. Like it's having an actual effect in there. And he just does,

like he knows when to, you know, throw a 40 foot pass up the court to get things going. And even it doesn't end in a transition bucket, it gets the transition defense scrambling. And now you have mismatches and they attack mismatches so well. And I think he's done that thing, like that cliche coach on the floor.

He takes everything Spow wants them to do on offense and defense. And he applies it. and he makes sure they apply it. And I think that's the big reason they have been able to just plug and play these dudes when injuries or COVID's hit or whatever because they can trust that Kyle will keep them organized. And then, like, they have their principles

and they have things they want to do as a team on both ends of the floor. But at the same time, while adhering to those, Spoe finds a way to kind of adapt to what the talent is on the floor of, like, actually, we'll play this way because we got Struces and Vincent and Caleb Martin out there

and Kyle's out there directing so we know that that's going to be organized. Like it's just Kyle is truly an extension of the coach on the floor and it just works. Man, you mentioned Spo earlier. How I know Spow is a psychopath is that there were moments in the season where he was like calling plays damn there for PJ Tucker. Yeah. And like allowing him to be like an offensive player because like the last few years, basically PJ Tucker has been a guy. You stick him in the corner, and he makes three corner threes at a reasonable enough rate that teams have to guard him out there.

And, of course, we know what he's doing. On the other hand, defensively, just help defense. Of course, his one-on-one defense is legendary. But, like, watching Spoe, this is how you know he's a mad scientist. It's like, PJ Tucker has been a nothing entity on offense when he was with the Rockets and even when he was with the Bucks last year. And Spoh's like, no, like, we know you're an NBA player. We're going to allow you to, like,

do stuff with the ball in your hands. It's remarkable. There's moments where I'm like, does Spoh think that PJ Tucker's DeMontas Sabonis? Like he's using him the exact same way. And it does like the audacity, right? Just like, you know what? Screw it.

Let's pretend you're in the Ukraine League again. And like you just show out. You just ball out. Like it's, yeah, it's, it's incredible the way they're, they're just trying stuff. But it seems like everything they try on both ends of the floor, it just works. Like they just, the plug and play,

Like, it can't be, it can't be overstated. You know, Amin came on here last week, and he mentioned that he feels like, because I think the bucks are the favorite to come out of the east. I just think when they have all their guys, they look spectacular. You know, I'm worried about the Brooke Lopez of it all. But I just think, like, when Middleton, Janice and Drew Holiday are playing, they're just tough, you know. Yeah.

But Amin was like, I think. the heat presented interesting matchup because their defense is so rudimentary. The heat with all their ball movement stuff and the way they spread people out and how precise they are at attacking stuff after the initial point of attacking, making you guard the entire defensive possession, which the bucks have not been great at in past years. Amin says he thinks that, you know, the bucks present certain problems. So what do you think about the bucks in heat matchup if it presents itself in the postseason?

Well, I mean, infamously on our old podcast together, still my current podcast, you know, a couple years ago, I tried to tell you guys the heat were coming for the bucks in the playoffs and we got some bubble and what happened, they smacked them, right? Just embarrassed him. And then I told you guys last year, yo, the heat are not going to duck the bucks.

And then Brent Forbes maybe outscored Jimmy Butler in the playoff series and they got swept, right? So, you know, I'm one in one on this one. But no, I think, look, Janus can go non. nuts and it could be a rap, right? Because if he's able to withstand whatever they're throwing at him defensively, there's even, even as good as Bam is, there's nothing they can do if Yanis is playing like he did last year. But I do think the lack of Brooke Lopez really does hurt that matchup for the Bucks because he presented, like he was he was rim running at the start

of possessions and they didn't have it. Like even BAM, BAM's not strong enough to push him out. Yeah, like he's too big for Bamb. Brooke's a monster, man. And he's still. so strong around the basket when he wants to be. And so when he was rim running, there was nothing they could do to push him out. And then he can float out to the three point line and be a threat. And then defensively, you know, yes, they have to go under everything and they have to drop coverage against everything. But they do such a good job of keeping you away from the basket that, you know, they'll

take those chances, even though the heat are the best three point shooting team in the league this year from percentage-wise. Like, you know, I do think if Brooks not out there, yeah, the bucks can still still scheme something and still be great and they still have a lot of talent. But it's funny, it's funny thinking about the two rosters because going into this year, my concern for the heat was just, I don't know if they have enough depth. And they've found four rotation guys out of nowhere that now you like completely trust out there. And with the Bucks roster, I do look at them like, there's not a lot of depth on there. You know, it's not, it doesn't take long before

you're wondering like, all right, can Janus's brother play 20? minutes tonight, like, and I don't think he can. And so, yeah, like, I do worry about that matchup a little bit if Brooks not out there. But, you know, you know me. I'm rolling with the heat. Yeah, yeah. I think, I just think Janus is at a place where he understands the assignments so well. He's cut out a lot of the fat from his game when he was doing Kobe routines and dribble, dribble, dribble, from 30 feet out. He's cut so much of that out. And I think as a defender, he's really understood his purpose as just a menace every single facet of the court defensively. Right.

Like, I love when he comes to the level of a pick and roll because he's so huge and guys are like, there's some daylight, but nah, no thing you. No, that daylight's a trap. That daylight is like, hey, I bet you think you can get this ball here. You can't. Like, I'm going to take it from you. Don't even think about putting that up. Yeah, don't even think about it.

And yeah, that's the thing. And I think, too, like Drew, right? Like Kyle Lowry's an incredible force and Tyler Hero has been back to what you would want him to be and maybe even more this season. But Drew could still lock both those guys up. Like, Drew is still like, he's still the best at this defense thing when he wants to and when he locks in.

We saw that during the playoffs last year. He was so good. Like, I know he got a lot of shit for, you know, missing shots in the playoffs. Some of the stuff he was doing on offense was a little out of pocket. It was tough. Yeah, it was a little ambitious. but when defensively, like, he can still lock anybody down. Yeah, and then, of course, there's the other matchup,

the Brooklyn Nets who just like, there's so much in the air with them. But what I will say about Miami, why I like them against a team like Brooklyn, is that I don't think they'll have to get into rotations. That's where Brooklyn kills you, right? Yeah. Where it's like you get into scrambling rotations.

You don't know who you want to cover, whether it's Kyrie, James Hardin, Kevin Durant, Patty Mills, Joe Harris, and you're just completely, you're giving up threes to incredible three-point shooters, right? But I think the heat, if Bam, Jimmy, PJ, and Kyle are right, those are four guys that you can switch a majority of those Brooklyn picking roles and things like that. Not that you want Cal Lowry guarding Kevin Durant on a given possession, right, on a switch. However, it's not a train wreck if it happens.

You know, it's not a train wreck for Jimmy to be on Kyrie Irvin or James Harden. I just think they have the defensive talent, tenacity. And of course, Spolster is just, he's a wizard when it comes to game planning and scheming up stuff and figuring out how they want to go about attacking Brooklyn offensively. I think they present a problem for the Nets in a potential player. off matchup. Well, especially like, look, we know that James Harden is not happy there, right?

Like, that is, he can that was, him being asked about that at the press conference, like, I didn't really, not that I didn't believe the reports, I just wasn't sure like, okay, am I going to really believe that this is, you know, I was kind of on the fence. And then I heard him tried to deny the reports in the way

he did. He's like, it's reports. Yeah, he's like reports. You didn't hear from me. I was like, okay, that's just true. Like, that's like, that's all I needed to hear. Like, that was the worst, like, example of, like, lying your way through a story. And so, like, look, I don't know if that's going to affect how he is in the playoffs. I think he's still adjusted. I actually think he's played better than most people give him credit for this year. But the thing about that matchup is the heat, the heat have to adjust to what the bucks are doing.

The heat don't really have to adjust to what the, what the nets put out there, right? Like, it actually kind of plays more to the strengths of the type of lineups that Spoll wants to throw out there. and just the way he varies up all those zone coverages. Like, KD's still going to get his, but you can weather a 40-point storm from KD as long as the other guys out there. Plus, Kyrie's not going to be there for half the series.

Like, I can't get past that story enough. Like, he's not going to be there. That's weird. Remember when Roger Clemens was only pitching home games for the Astros? Like, that's what that feels like. It's crazy because, again, And I've said this already on Bill's pod on this one. I was like, I can believe the thing about that report that I could believe the most was

Harden being a little frustrated with the Kyrie thing. Yeah. It's just like. That's not what you moved your way there for, right? Bro, you just won't get the jab. You wouldn't be a big three. Yeah, exactly. Like, like have me and KD turn into zombies or like because we got to like what are you doing?

Like what are you doing? I can 100% buy into that. Also like, look, we don't have to get deep. into that part of it, but you're going to be a voiceless or a voice for the voiceless by not talking, by posting like Instagram art. That's not really a voice for the voiceless. Also, the voiceless are pretty fucking loud most of the time. Like, it's not like they're hurting to get their name out there.

Yeah, it's, it's amazing. And again, it's not just that. It goes back to last year, too, where he took so many PTO days. We were just like, yeah, Kyrie's not playing because personal, whatever. He just doesn't want to play right now. He's not feeling well. And it's like for those guys to watch him, and let's face it,

it's kind of diva behavior. But you know what I mean? What's funny is Harden did that too. Remember like his friend was becoming a girl boss or whatever that was like a. Oh, yes. He's like, he did it. And then he goes and sees Kyrie.

He's like, hold on a second. This is not acceptable. We can't be doing this. No, no, no, no. I'm not used to playing on teams for guys that I count on. Exactly. Aren't held accountable.

I'm the one that's unaccountable here. We don't do that. So yeah, so I'm really. fascinated just by the heat season. I can't wait for the playoffs because I think these matchups are going to be so fascinating on the Eastern Conference side. And, yeah, look, I'm on record. I think the Bucks are going to go to the finals, but I think Miami is right there with

everybody else in the conference. Just watch, yo, just watching the intensity level on a game by game because a little birdie told me you guys have been ripping me from my Hawks pick. Wow. Ripping is, look, look a lot better lately, right? Trey young said, no, it's not for the hawks pick. It's the dismissal of my Memphis Grizzlies. The grizzlies out here running you into the ground, man.

Like, just making you look so bad. Like, this is way worse than how I looked after the bucks swept the heat. Like, I took my lumps, but this is a season long, that was a week, right? Like, they were done in a week. This is a season long, just, a, Annihilation. They have been making me look horrible. It's like so bad.

But don't give in. Wise, you can't give it. No, no, no, no, no,

no, no, I'm not going to concede. Because the second, like Anthony Davis dunks on them. Yeah. Bro,

the second they don't want to playoff series, yeah. I'm back on their asses. But whatever, we're going to leave that for another day. And I do want to take it to the Western conference where the sons are

comfortably at number one at 30. At 39 and 9, okay. They're second in the league in net rating, only behind the Golden State Warriors. Top five defense, top five offense. They look incredible, yet nobody seems to think they're like the team to beat in the NBA and when the playoffs roll around. I just find that strange.

Like, look, I'm a Devin Booker guy. I remember when people were calling him empty stats person where he puts up numbers but, you know, the defense was horrible. He sort of had a tunnel vision. It wasn't a playmaker, especially early on in his career. He was a bit of a chucker that way. But, however, I just remember thinking like, yo, nobody seems to be able to stay in front of this dude.

His jumper's wet. The playmaking is coming around. What the hell am I missing right now with this dude? You know, and then voila, they get to. get way better players around him. And now he's, you know, he's probably the second best player on a team that's at the top of the West, right? And again, they're guarding the hell out of people.

That's kind of my favorite thing. Like, some people like the ball movement, which is great. Like, the ball whizzes around over there. And they've definitely taken on the identity of Chris Paul, who, by the way, me and Rob Mahoney got into an argument. He believes Chris Paul should be starting in the All-Star Game over John Morant. I was like, no, thank you. Give me John Moran.

Give me dunks, give me highlights, give me superficiality, get out of here with this team success bullshit. I want all-stars. But that's neither here nor there. I just think what they do on defense is real, you know, and I think that can carry on from series to series when you're not playing Janice out to Tocumpo. And so, yeah, it feels like they should be the team that everybody's picking to come out of the West. What are you to make of the Phoenix Suns this year? Yeah, I mean, they're the best team in the league.

not just because of their record. Like, they just flat out the best team. They can play any way that they want to. And I know, like, look, I'm excited that the Warriors are back and they look incredible. And, you know, once Dremont's back on the court with Clay and stuff, like, it's going to look like 2005 or 2015 all over again sometimes, right? Like, it's going to be incredible. But if you look at the team who is built to defend that, it's the Sons. They can defend any way you need to.

And even, like, the Yonnes stuff in the finals last year, that was because, like, they didn't, like, they had Frank Kaminsky to throw. out there when D'Aidre Aiton got into foul trouble, right? Like, like, Frank Kerminski's not going to stop anybody in the NBA, right? Like, that's just not going to happen. And so with that, like, they went out and they got Javelle McGee. They went out and picked up Bismack-Bionbo, who looks great for them right now. Like, they actually have that depth now. Binsmacked Beambo, shouts to Deezer Zemero.

He is a great backup big. Yeah. If you want him playing 32 minutes a night. No, it's going to be. No, because he has these mental. lapses where it's just like, bro, like, come on, you're a pro now, right? And same with Javelle McGee, like spot duty, non-starter minutes. Right. That's completely fine. And they got two of those guys, which I think is incredible for them. Yeah, absolutely. And like, Aiton's missed

like 20 games and you would never note, right? Like, because they have the depth there now. And, and I don't know, I just look at that team. They can hit threes. It's a Chris Paul team that plays fast, you know, which has never been the case. Yeah. Like, their pace is really, is really high. James Jones brought in a bunch of good players. Monty Williams shaped the culture. Chris Paul hammered at home. And you mentioned Devin Booker. It's so crazy.

We've had all these like, should Yokch be the MVP? Look at what they're doing when he's not on the floor. They're terrible. And like, oh, Yonis is back. He should be it. John Morant, Kevin Durant, like, you know, Steph Curry. What about DeMarre de Rose?

Like we have all these guys dwelling beads in the mix now. Devin Booker's putting up 25 points, five and a half rebounds, four and a half assists a game. On the best team in the league. doesn't get a mention, right? No. Like, it's, that's crazy, though, right? Like, as good as he's been, and it's because, it's truly because, like, he and Chris Paul just split that,

they just split that credit, like, right down the middle. Like, that's just where it goes, and no one considers them for this, for these, like, you know, accolades. But this is a, like, if you told me, hey, I came back from the future and the Suns won the championship, I wouldn't be like, wait, how did that happen? I'm like, yeah, that sounds right to me. Yeah, and what I love is. the humility to be like,

yo, Chris Paul can't, we have no problem with Chris Paul being a closer at the end of games, right? Like, Chris Paul doesn't exert himself to the fullest extent all game on because he can't. The guy's body is broken down three trillion times already in his career. And he saves it for the fourth

and Booker's like, yo, I'm going to do all of the attention grabbing stuff to suck in defenses, to give him room to operate. Like, what he does, like, off the ball. Obviously, he's not a staff or Reggie Miller or Ray Allen off the ball. But for somebody who has as much on-ball juices he has to do what he does off the ball to attract the attention to defenses and do the spot-up stuff, it's just incredible.

I'm proud of the dude that the player that he's become because he did, he was getting a lot of shit, a lot of shit because the suns had crappy teams around him. Because he couldn't win with Dragon Bender. Like, like, you know. You know what? What's funny, what hurt him, I think, from a PR standpoint, is just the fact that, like, that 70-point game and a loss where they're, like, fouling to get him more chance to get to 70. I think that, I mean, even Jake Crowder at the time, like, you know, was shitting on him on social media and stuff, and they're going back and forth. And, and, like, that left, like, I think a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. And so I got asked about this, you know, and Sun's Twitter was mad at me because they're like, why doesn't he get more credit?

And I didn't say he was. I'm like, look, when you have a dude putting up big stats on a bad team, the question is, is this dude like the empty stats, the looter and the riot, whatever, right? Kevin Love went through it, Devin Booker went through it, you know, Andre Drummond went through it. And sometimes the answer is no, this dude's legit. And sometimes the answer is, yeah, this is garbage. Hassan Whiteside putting up empty ass numbers every time he's on the floor, right?

But Devin Booker needed to learn how to do that stuff. Like, once you got a good team around him, oh, he's actually a really good defender now. Imagine that when he's not like having to score 50 points to bring Markey's Chris and Dragon Bender to within 10. The defense is. The defense coming along has been a revelation of course. And I think it helps having guys like Jay Crowder and McKell Bridges on the team. Like McKill Bridges like that dude might be the best wing defender in the NBA, right?

Like he's so good. And just having that like it's just the culture of like when all these guys want to do something that is sacrificing for the team. And the superstar sees that. And the superstar's like, yeah, I can do that too. That's when you know you have a special culture. Yeah, and we mentioned the Warriors who, again, are right behind them at 37 and 13 themselves. They're leading the league in net rating quite as kept. And I know Rudy's been in and out of the lineup.

Donovan Mitchell has been in and out of the lineup. Quiet as kept. My Utah Jazz. Your boys, yeah. Are third in net rating in the NBA with all of this lineup fluctuation. I still think, I still, I personally. still think they're at the level of the sons and the warriors, even though they've never shown it in the history of their...

In the history of this iteration of the franchise, I don't know why I can't quit Utah. No, Waz, you're right. Like, they are as good as the sons and the warriors in the regular season. Like, you have to put some respect on the regular season jazz. You know, when they get to the playoffs, you know, they become the Timberwolves all of a sudden. But, you know, in the regular season, who...

That's a bad team right there. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, so because I think most people think it's going to come down to Phoenix and Golden State. Everybody is done pretending that the Lakers are anything other than a train wreck. Oh, my God. I think Memphis is too young to actually pull something off. I think Memphis needs another guy, right? Yeah.

Because there's going to be a point in the playoffs and maybe Jal will just be so good. You mean it's not Dylan Brooks? No, I mean, it's not the guy who shoots under 40% from the field. No, it's not him. Don't get me started. But they do need another dude that can create. And I don't see them. needing to make that push.

Like you go into the playoffs this year, you see, you see how it looks now that you're going to have some expectations. And then you go out and see, you know, how you acquire that second guy for him. I don't think Jaron Jackson is that guy on offense, obviously defensively. And he's good on offense. He's just not going to take over stuff. He's a finisher. He's not an initiator.

He's not a guy that you just soak up possessions from his offense, right? Like, he's not going to draw two because a big man is guarding him. Right. It's just not one of those guys. He's, it's dope that he's such a good three-point shooter, even though his jumper, his percentage is down this year. I think he's about like 31, 32 percent where in the past years he's been around like closer to 38, 37. But like, you know, he's still wetting his free throw.

So like I wouldn't leave that dude open. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think he's still a good shooter. I just think like, look, is Bain, I got to put some respect on Bain. He's good, man. Also, they just talk. They talk so much. I was actually talking to Jerry and Jackson Jr. on the radio last week.

And I was like, you know, asking him about that mentality. He goes, do we really talk that much? Like he was like acting like he didn't know. I was like, are you kidding? No. Watch the rest of the league. Like, you pay attention to your opponents? Like, no.

Dylan Brooks alone. He's out of control, dude. Like, I'm just like, you know, this dude is trying to start fights on the court. Yes. And Desmond Bain. Because Desmond Bayne walks like. a football player. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, he holds his arms like a football player. Yeah, exactly. Like, he's a running back. Yeah. He's ready to go at any time. But that's the thing, though, with Bain and Brooks, right, against potentially, you know, let's just say potentially in a second round matchup, if they end up at the four seed, a second round matchup against the Sons.

When you're trying to score one-on-one against McKeill Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jay Crowder, and then you got Aiton Helpside, it's tough. It's tough. Chris Paul digging down to like swipe, you know, Devin Booker's swiping. Like, it's going to be really hard. Much respect as I got for the Memphis for like finding these guys where they found them, right? Like we talk about Miami's player development. I think that's incredible what they've done, you know, to get Bain where they did,

to develop Brooks how they have, you know, and some of the other guy, the other younger guys. but in a playoff setting where Phoenix has you completely scouted. And again, you guys, those two guys, not Jai, we know Jaws Jai. Jaws is going to be great. Yeah. He's a genius, man. He's a genius out there. He is.

He really is. And he's able to find stuff and anticipate where the opening is going to be when he's finding dudes on a playmaking tip. Of course, we know the acrobatts and nobody can stay in front. Like, we know the wild stuff, but like the subtle stuff that he does is incredible. And I think he's going to do that in a playoffs. But how they can win is because these other guys are making stuff happening. I just don't think those dudes are there.

And that's what I was trying to say, Grizzlies fans. No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't let Laws back out of this. He was saying you were a playing tournament-ass team that was going to get smacked in the first round. That's exactly what Was was saying. No, no, no, no. I've known this man too long. Like, trust me.

First of all, I was comparing. child to Steph Curry, one of the 2015 probably top 10 hoopers that ever laced them up. I thought I was paying the guy a compliment. Everybody took the other part where I called the support cast man and ran with it. I don't know why. You don't know why. Grizzly's fans, let me

tell you what the B and Beal Street stands for. It stands for Bigwas is lying right now. That's what it stands for, okay? He was trying to say, like, I don't even think he was convinced he win the playing tournament. He's probably going to talk himself into Carl Anthony Towns stepping forward and eliminating the Grizzlies. No, no, no, no, no. You protect that three-seat Memphis.

No, no, no, no, no. And watch him cower when you take down the Warriors in the second. I don't actually believe that part, but we'll cut that if we need. Yeah, no, and that's what I'm saying. Like, if they stay on the three-seat, I think the Warriors, of course, defensively, the best team. That's tough, yeah. Nate Duncan came out, came on this podcast and said that's the best unit in the NBA,

the Warriors defensive unit when Draymond is right, it's going to be too much for them. And if they slip to the fourth, I think Phoenix is perfectly... Yeah, Phoenix is too hard of a matchup. Yeah. To step up against them. But yeah, I think Phoenix is going to the conference finals.

It's going to be a matter of can they, you know, take care of the Golden State Warriors or, you know, whoever else might get there. And I just feel like it's them, you know. Yeah. Early in the season when the Warriors went on their run, they were shocking everybody. Everybody's like, damn,

all the Warriors is going to be back. And I think there's something to be said, like, I need to see somebody beat Draymond, Steph, and Clay in the playoff series. But those guys are completely locked in and relatively healthy. Because, like, you know, I remember what they did to Portland in 2019. Just like that. KB goes down and it was so mean what they did to them.

There's one thing that worries me about what you just said, okay? Like, you need to see someone. take those three down, right, when they're healthy. Drey Mons said that on a podcast recently. It's like, hey, no one's beat us, you know, when we're all together and we're healthy and everything. 2016 never happened? Well, he got suspended, remember?

He got suspended for our game and then, but so he said that. But, you know, that sounds like Doc Rivers, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, no one's ever beat us when I started. Nobody's ever beat Mbuntu. Yeah, exactly. And so it worries me to adopt that attitude.

I like the confidence from Dremon. I like the confidence from you there. But I just get a little bit of a doc vibes there and I don't think you want that if you're Draymond on the Warriors. Yeah, you never want to go super confident with a line of predicated on starting Kendrick Perkins. No disrespect.

But I don't know if you ever want to go super confident with that. But yeah, I'm, man, I'm really blown away by what Phoenix has done this year. I mean, I really do think that the best team in the league and I do think like they would be my favorite to come out of the West right now. I know everyone's on. And that's not

disrespect on the Warriors. I just think they're a more complete team. the question though is can someone you know can devon booker match step if step goes off in a series can booker match that consistently maybe i don't think it's i don't think it's out of the question and then defensively is there anyone on phoenix as good defensively as draymond when he's healthy and locked in no like as good as bridges is and so if you have the best offensive player and you have the best defensive player right that's a tough starting point but i still like the sun's team more than more than anybody all right well you heard of it first

First, y'all, Zach Harper picking the Sons to win the championship, guaranteed, stamp it. Rubber stamp that thing. We got Sons Grizzlies, conference finals, lock it in, and the winner gets to play the heat. I love it. Zach, tell the people where they can find you, bro. Oh, man, at talk hoops across all socials. Check out the athletic show. Check out the athletic and check out Series XN NBA Radio.

Love it. See you guys next week. Peace.