The Ringer NBA Show - How the New-Look Mavericks Are Making a Playoff Push, With Jonathan Tjarks | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 10, 2022

Logan and Raja are joined by The Ringer’s Jonathan Tjarks to discuss the moves the Dallas Mavericks made at the trade deadline this season and how the team plans to make a playoff push with its new-look roster (5:00). Then they touch on Russell Westbrook’s recent fight with fans and the media over the nickname “Westbrick” (26:00) and the upcoming Nets-76ers game (36:00) before each awarding their Real One of the Week. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Jonathan Tjarks Producer: Sasha Ashall Associate Producer: Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Benefer is back. Brad and Jen are friends again, and Paris Hilton is somehow still making headlines. 20 years later, we're living in the world that the 2000s tabloids created. On this series, I'm going to tell you the story of a decade of American life through the trash we love to consume. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Claire Malone, and this is just like us, the tabloids that changed America. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. What's popping? Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Roger, we got a special guest, one of the most talented dudes at the Ringer, in my opinion.

Co-host of Upside High, Jonathan Charkis is in the building. How you doing, sir? How you doing, Mike? Hey, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Love y'all's pot. I'm excited. Man, thanks.

But first, hold on, Chuck. Before we get to, we got to talk to Roger right now because he's been in a bit of a conundrum this morning. we get a text to start off the pot, like pre-pod, get a text, hey, we'll be a few minutes late. I have to, uh, you go ahead tell the story. I don't want to slander your name. Listen, man. I don't want a certain, I don't want a certain someone coming to my bumper right now, going to my doorstep. So like, I'll let you tell the story.

What's going on? First of all, Jonathan, you got kids, man? I got one. Yeah, two-year-old. Okay. So you, I mean, you know, but you don't really know, right? Like, I got four of them, and we had to be out of our house for two. months. So we had to move everybody into an Airbnb for two months. That's a lot of shit, all right?

It's more shit than you can really imagine, right? And so then this morning was the morning that we had to move all of that shit out, but there's still construction going on in my crib, so I couldn't do the pod from there. So I wind up at my parents' house, right? Which is what you see in the background, my mom's office. And I'm going to just let you know, Logan, you don't want no smoke with Denise Bell. I don't think I want no smoke with Denise Bell. You don't want smoke. Tell me why I don't want to smoke with Denise Bell. Okay. So you would just let me. You would remember this. This would be perfect for you. You remember when Kobe and I had a little moment. Kobe thought he said, I don't know. Kobe had a moment? Yeah. And he said, you know, I don't know if he was

hugged enough as a child. Like it was one of his little jab slapped. You know, like I called him pompous and arrogant. He said, you know, an octagon. I said, we don't need an octagon. So we just, we did all of that. But then he said, and it was kind of funny that I wasn't hugged enough as a child. In a way, only Kobe could. So we're in the bowels, like, after we've been. beat them game six in, was a game seven, sorry, in Phoenix.

And Kobe is like one of the last people, you know, leaving, head down, kind of like walking through the arena. And unbeknownst to me, my mom has waited in the family room

for Kobe being Bryant to come walking through. And once she did, once he did, she tapped him on the shoulder and said, excuse me, Kobe, and he turned around and she said, I'm Rajas mom.

Could you use a hug? Ah! Yeah. Yeah. So you're there with were you there? Were you there? Were you there when that happened?

Were you there when that happened? I was not there, but it was confirmed by multiple sources and her. I respect the, Charks, don't she respect like the pettiness of that? Because I do. Just,

I'm never going at Denise Bell. She's the OG at all times. Just, but just to think about her waiting, like, I'm going to get this motherfucker. I'm going to get him. After you all,

The patience, the timing, being able to make the joke at the time, even after you've been thinking about it for, I know, for days, probably weeks. Didn't fumble the bag. Didn't fumble the bag. Didn't fumble at all. No. No, no. Respect it.

No doubt. So lead to office alone, bro. Yeah, I know it's bright behind me. I know I got my face on the wall. The posted notes are in full effect. I know. You're looking real angelic. You have a light behind you.

It's a light on top. People can't see this. It's a light on top of Roger's head. It is a ceiling fan with a light on it. I'm not going to say nothing. I'm looking back in the behind and all these things. Everything about your mother's office means business. There's post-it notes.

There's tax returns. We're not messing around. I ain't no slander in my way. What better place to be with Jonathan Charks on like than to be in a place of business? That's how we get down. I love it. Let's go. Let's get it.

Charks. I wanted to talk to you. We had Mark Cuban on earlier this week and just kicked off Mavs week, right? But I wanted to get you on, just talk a little bit about the Mavis and some other things. But first of all, let's just put aside the blowout loss from last night. But I want to talk about Mavericks post All Star Break. And it seems like one of those things where a little addition by subtraction, and it's kind of in a weird way, you know, you get rid of Porzingis and you go on a bit of a run.

What do you think has changed over these last few weeks that, you know, maybe the national media hasn't been paying attention? too. Well, there's like two tracks going on. And there's like a basketball track and like how the team is being structured. That's important in terms of how you build around Luca. And I'll get to that in a second. But I'm also curious from Roger's perspective, there's this track about what is it like on a team when one of the best players doesn't want to be there? Not that he's like necessarily acting out, but he's like, I don't like my role. I'm not happy here. I want more touches.

I want the offense to change. And I'm going to let everyone know around me that I'm just not really feeling the mood anymore. Like, how does that impact the team? Does it impact the team? Or like, do you have much experience with that in your career? Oh, yeah. It is a, it's, you know, it festeres. And it's like, it's a cancer.

It grows. It's silent. It affects mood. it affects the people closest to you at first and then it starts to spread and before you know it you know a lot of people in that locker room are infected and it's a you know locker rooms are a vibe that's a place that you it's it's your home away from home you're there so much during a season it's a safe place locker rooms are for jokes there for stories therefore therefore um you know counseling sometimes like there's a lot of dynamics to go on personal um and otherwise in a locker

room. And if the mood is affected by someone who's just bringing that energy level down, it's a hard place to work. And ultimately, it does affect your product on the floor because it just brings the energy down. It brings the mood down. Yeah, I'll just tell this story. So last year, after, like, there were games where Luca didn't play? And then KP, always, he'd be talking to the media because he's like the next big star. So Luke is not out. And then everyone, he'd always say something along the lines of, man, the ball was really moving tonight. He did a really great job involving everybody.

And we would, like, joke would be like, who's going to ask KP about ball movement tonight? So he would just be saying stuff like that. And all that to say, like, I don't even necessarily, I get it from his perspective. He was an all-star. He gets traded. He comes here.

And he's like, man, the way this team is structured, I'm not getting back to that level playing with Luca. And I think that on some level really impacted just the way he felt about things. I really feel at some point the MAV said we've just got to move forward. So there's that element of it. And I think the other element with KP being gone, it's okay, so when KP was in Dallas, they said we have to make sure to play him not at the five all the time because we got to protect his body. We got to keep him healthy. We're going to stick him at the four, then play either Dwight Powell or Maxi Klebe at the five. And that worked well enough. But the problem was,

Okay, we have KP at the four, maxi at the five. And then we have our two star guards, Luca and Jalen Brunson. But we also need two guys to play defense on the perimeter because Luca and Brunson aren't really stoppers. So when you do the math, that's six players on the floor, right? It just, the math never worked out. With KP gone, they go Luca Brunson and they've got Doreen Phine Smith and Reggie Bullock. So they got a guy for the top two perimeter players on each team. your two perimeter creators, and your big man.

And that is really working well. That mix of players has just worked better around Luca than having two bigs. I think that's kind of like the hidden element to why the Mavs are playing better. But, Razor, when you hear that, and we've always talked about this, especially with Luca during the playoffs, and how to build a team around him, right? You know, the traditional sense is when you have a guard of his stature, just put a big man there. You know, we've seen that time and time again to where you have. that play out. You have a big man and then you have a tall, a tall big man and then you have a smaller guard. How do you feel like you should build around a Luca Donches, who is a ball

stopping guard at points in time similar to a James Hardin and has to have the offense roll all the way through him? How do you build a roster around that, a super talent that way? Yeah, that's, I mean, it's a good question. I mean, ideally I think you get him someone, I mean, this is perfect world, right? Who can, who's a rim run presence, right? Like, you get a guy who, when he's playing off of him and pick and roll, can really get downhill quickly into the front of the rim, right? And put pressure on it from a lob perspective.

Like, if they're playing any sort of drop coverage, like you see him play James Hardening, you know, he can just flip it up there at the rim. But also, you need the ability to kind of pick and pop quickly because Luca gets doubled a lot. Like, and, you know, they'll send two at him. So you need somebody to stretch that floor. and then can make a play. You need shooting and defending, for sure, three and D guys. But I always think what gets overlooked a lot of times,

especially with LeBron and I'll liken Luca to like building around LeBron, they want guys that can shoot and people never give them enough playmaking alongside of them. And I know it's a hard balance because typically playmakers are ball usage guys and you can't have them eating up his ball usage time. But there are situations that you get into, whether they're off the floor, injured or foul trouble, or just late shot clock situations where if you don't have another guy who can create on the floor, then you're kind of stuck, right?

And so, you know, it's a balance of all of that in a perfect world. And, you know, I think the Mavs still have a little work to do. I've talked about this before, Logan. I also believe that as Luca matures, Luca's got a little work to do in the space of like, hey, man, I want Logan and Jonathan on this pod to be the best versions of themselves. so maybe I give up the mic just a little bit earlier than I ordinarily would. But, you know, I think they're pointed in the right direction.

That's a great point you made there. And I think, like, being in Dallas and watching him, and it's like, you kind of get impatient. You're like, man, it's been three years. Let's get moving on this. But it's like, he's still only 23. And it's like, okay, he's got to get his numbers, got to kind of get his MVP. I think there's part of it, too, where it's almost kind of like Kobe's years without Shaq. he kind of has to see how far he can go on his own energy and then realize, okay, I've pushed my

limits, I've done what I can do on my own, I've already proven myself. Now let me take a little step back and move it around a little bit. But right now we're much more in the, I'm just doing everything because why not? He's under this whole career. Yeah. It's an interesting spot. And we talk about it a lot of points in career. Like once he gets to the point, right, like it'll be really interesting to see, like, he could be special enough to win it doing it just like this. Like, you know what I mean? Like, but everybody has that natural evolution. And in another world and in a more evolved world for both Luca and KP, maybe it works

because you're not talking about two guys that are like, yo, one, I got to get back to that level. And the other one like, yo, I'm the coldest thing on the planet, maybe with the ball in my hand. So this is what I'm doing. But I always find that interesting, right? Because just at a time and appointing careers right now, that doesn't work. Chuck, you're close up to it, and I hear how you're talking about this, about it seems that you're saying, you know, Lucas seems like selfishness, but his propensity to keep on the ball and get his stats, did that affect his relationship and also his on-court play with KP, do you think? To a degree, it's hard. I wouldn't quite call it selfish, though it probably comes across that way. I mean, he's holding, and that's certainly from KP,

perspective. Like, come on, man. Can I have the ball sometimes? Like, I can do stuff too. Let's move this bad boy around. You've got plenty of numbers. Yeah, and I think, too, I think the other really big change that happened this year with Jason Kidd coming in is he's really emphasized Jalen Brunson. Rick Carlisle, I don't think ever really believed in Jalen Brunson. If you look at the playoffs last year, he pretty much, after like the first two games said, you know what? Brunson is too small to be out here. We're benching them, playing only wings around Luca. And so then it's like, with Kitty, he's like, no, we're going to start Brunson. We're going to make sure he's got the ball. But then it's like if Luca's going to have like, you know, 80%, that 20%, now you're cutting it up even

further between Brunson and KP. And I think that's really where it became untenable. It's like, okay, we got Luca. Brunton's are number two. Well, now KP's are number three. And now it's like, that's just probably wasn't going to work long term. So I watch them, and then I'll go back and look at some of their games that I haven't seen and just dig into those box scores a little bit. And you did. You talked about one and two, right? You know what you're going to get out of one and two. They're at their best when they can get production in the high teens to 20s from three. And so for them to be the championship team, I guess my question, who's the most likely candidate to be the consistent number three? Or will it always just be that revolving door of characters kind of around those guys?

Well, I mean, it'd have to be Spencer Dinwiddie. And he's been great since coming over in the trade. And that's been like the most surprising thing. Because like I was kind of talking about how the Mavs needed to move on. And it was like, well, we just got to break this contract up. KP has bring in some guys. But Dinwiddie's been so much better. Like it's like been a switch going from Washington to Dallas.

And I think we were all a little surprised by that. I think the assumption was because it's coming off the ACL injury, maybe he needs a full year to get back to where he was. And now he just come into Dallas as a sixth man hit the ground running. When I think about building the team around Luca and, you know, I either think about LeBron's early years and even James Harding years in Houston where he's such, there's two ball dominant guys where it's, they're going to take the lion's share of the shots. And we've talked about this throughout the beginning of the pod.

Sharks, my question to you is, how do you try to build a contending team? and a championship level team where you know Luca's going to take most of the shots. What kind of star or complementary pieces do they need? Because what I don't want to see from Luca is what I see from Hardin a few years ago where he's taking most of the offensive burden. And then he gets tired during the playoffs.

And then the team goes downhill from there. What is they, if you had to create a person, a sidekick or something of that nature, go along with Luca, who would it be? I'm Anthony Davis, someone like that, someone who's like thrived next to LeBron, someone who can put a massive numbers

that necessarily need to have the ball on his hands the whole time. And I've kind of looked at it from the Mavs perspective. I almost feel like it's kind of more about Luca at this point in terms of who does he want to play with? Who wants to play with him? I think sometimes he gets so caught up and it's like, well, who do the Mavs got to bring in? And if you look at how the league moves these days, who does a star want to bring in?

Who does he know? Who does he have that personal relationship with that he can, like, work it out? I think there was kind of this assumption, oh, Luca and KP, well, they're both European. They're both kind of the same age. They must be tight. But it's like, there are different parts of like, KP and Luca did never play it together. They didn't like grow up playing on team Slovenia together. So there wasn't necessarily a huge preexisting relationship.

And that's what I wonder is the next step for Luca, too, is how do you develop that relationship with people when you don't have that background of playing on Team USA? When you didn't, you know, I think that's the big thing for him is he didn't grow up in America, right? All the American kids know each other, right? They played, they know since they're 16. Luca was a pro at 15. He didn't know anybody. That's a really interesting point. It makes me feel like it's almost going to be predicated on how far Luca can get a team with,

a star to get one of these guys to trust that he's the dude. You know what I mean? Because the organic relationship isn't there. So it's going to have to be his individual end team success at that point to have someone look at that and be like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can envision myself going there. And with me in the mix, like, that's a championship team. You know what's one name? And I always think about it that I liken him to.

Obviously, stature doesn't really make sense. But I played with him. It's Alan Iverson. And, you know, I thought about it when Jonathan was talking about KP looking at him, like, yo, man, let me touch that a little bit, you know? And I wasn't in that boat. I was a first year player. But there were older vets on our team that were around AI at the time that I would often hear,

you know, grumblings about not getting the rock or not touching it. But, you know, ultimately, AI was the type of competitor that just felt like it wasn't selfish. It wasn't like, yo, I don't want anybody else to eat or, you know, I want to be the MVP, so no one else is shooting. One thousand percent wasn't that. It was just he believed that he gave us the best chance to win games in certain situations. And the ball was going to be his. And people eventually trusted in that and did their job. Every competitor wants the ball. Everybody who plays basketball, none of us growing up being defensive stoppers. We don't. You don't come up into YMCA, being like, yo, I'm a lama strap that shit up, bro. You ain't getting a

We all grew up scoring, so we all went to ball. You didn't grow up at the wide, just slapping the, slapping the, uh, best. Come on, man. I feel like you grew up slapping the court. Come on. We're not. I mean, we're all, we're all different. I was always fiery, man, but we got buckets. But I think of Luca, like AI, where, like, there's a recipe around him right now.

Um, but I don't think, I don't see it as selfish either. I see it more as they like, yo, man, I'm nice with this. Like, and if we're going to, if we're going to win, then the lion's share of it's going to, you know, be predicated on how I play. Charks brought up a great point. I just wanted to get your thoughts. We didn't really get on. He said Anthony Davis. Let's go, let's do a creative world.

You know we talked about, we've talked about Anthony Davis plenty on this podcast. Anthony Davis to Dallas. Just, you know, I don't know that the contract stuff is right now. It doesn't matter. Yes. Anthony Davis to the Mavericks right now. What will be your thoughts on that, him playing with Luca? So yes for me with AD and the Mavericks.

And here's why. I think it was a great point about, about understanding how to play off of a ball dominant kind of high usage guy like LeBron. like LeBron, but also Luca's young enough where you ain't got to pass that torch to AD anytime soon. That's my only beef with him as a Laker. My beef was you paired him with LeBron who was looking to kind of hand the baton off and kind of take the back seat.

And because of his, you know, his, you know, just injury history. And I think at times, personality, I don't think that was in the best interest of the Lakers. But I do think it would fit well with Luca because Luca's here. Luca's just approaching prime. LeBron is on the other side of it. So it was a non-Laker fit overall for me,

but I think it'd be great for the Mavs. And then something else that was interesting. So the Mavs retired Dirk's jersey, I guess like a month or two ago. And then Dirk was talking after the game. And he's talking about the struggles he had early in his NBA career and how much that shaped him as a player,

how much he kind of had to like humble himself and like, oh, I don't really know all that much. I've really got to break it down and kind of build fresh because I'm kind of starting from scratch here. And I don't think Dirk would anyway was taking a shot. But I'm hearing him say that, and I'm like, okay, that's how Dirk's career went.

Well, Luca has not exactly started slow in the NBA. He's not exactly started slow in Europe. So it's just a very different psychology behind it. I always tell people like, the number one thing that's something about Luca, he was the best player in Europe at 16. You have to start with that. And like, how is that going to affect how you view the world, how you view the game?

Like, this is easy for me, man. Like, I was 16. I didn't really have a car. And I'm killing his grown men. Killing him. Yeah, no, that's a really interesting, it's a really interesting, like, perspective to see the world. To see the world through, like, where you come to the NBA and you don't skip a beat. Like, and people, like, people were.

We're like, no, that's not going to translate. Like, maybe not athletic enough. We don't know. And you didn't miss a beat. Oh, man. I remember the first time I saw Luca, he went, it was 19, went baseline and just dunked on Kevin Durant and Damien Jones, two seven footers, just on a whim. And it was an one foul. I was like, oh, okay, this dude is, it was nasty at 19.

So his rookie year, like, we're asking him all his questions. And, like, because we're thinking as, like, you know, in the media, well, there's all this stuff about Luca. There's these doubters. He slipped on the draft. People are doubting his athletic ability. Can he make the jump? And like you're kind of thinking in your head. There's these narratives about like, oh, I got to prove myself.

And you're asking Luca, it's like, it doesn't even make sense to him. It's like, what are you even talking about? Like, I'm awesome. Like, people thought I wouldn't be, like, that doesn't even make sense. Like, every time you'd ask him a question, you'd be like, oh, I've been doing this since I was like 14. Like, I've just, it's just normal to me. Like, I'll be.

fine. Don't. Like he's beyond even having to prove anything. He's already proved it in his mind, basically. What's the other side of that though, right? Because you did bring up it, that's an interesting point, but the other side of that is like, I'm good enough right now. And like, his

playoff success doesn't suggest that. How do you, I just don't know where that goes. Does that need, does that ride? Someone in the locker, does that attitude need refining? Yeah, I mean, listen, it's, you're talking again about the arc of career, right? The arc of a, not a career, like of a, of a human being, right? Like you, you come in,

you're brash and cocky. Some of us wear that on our sleeve. Some of us don't. Some of us just have this confidence that he's talking about. Like, man, what are you talking about? This is me. I'm nice. This is what I do. But, you know, like we talked about dirt coming in and even though he hit the ground running a lot faster than Dirk did and he had more success early, ultimately you're judged by your team success, your championships. And that hasn't, you know, that hasn't really. You know, that hasn't happen yet. I do think that he will mature. I think right now he's still in that phase of, I can do this. And maybe he can. Maybe he will. I still think, though, that that roster needs a piece. And the AD pieces, like, I mean, if that's the piece, that's it. But it needs a

piece. And then Luca's going to have to take the next step. And here's why I think he's going to be able to do that. There are two names. It's going to be Nico Harrison. And we talk to Mark Cuban about, you know, the people's skills and the guy you want to go out and have a three-hour dinner with and really just talk about life. And J. Kit, getting Luca to understand, like, how important the support around you is. Even if you're still doing, you know, like your usage rate slips fractionally by two percentage points, but just allowing someone else to help you and how that translates into more team success. But I think it's going to happen.

Yeah, I mean, the other side of it is he showed up to the season out of shape. like he's vibes he was vibes the beginning of the season it's just i mean it is what it is right he just didn't work out in the offseason he play he's he's been like i play my way into shape kind of guy and you're right about the playoffs i think for him these first two playoff runs there was no expectations really it was oh what are playing the clippers playing kawai like you just you're like you're like you obviously trying to win but no one's like man lucas should be in kawai in that playoff series he's really disappointed this year is different. I think now it's

going to get a little more, if they play the jazz or the grizzlies, there's going to be a lot more expectations. And if they don't win those series, if they lose in the first round again, I think you will start to see things change a little bit. How much blame would you

say if they lose in the postseason and maybe in the first round of the second round either way, how much blame would sharks do you think would go to Luca versus the front office who did trade away, you know, whether you want to say locker room dynamics or anything they did trade away a guy that has to have all-star talent. So how do you, what do you think the reaction would be if they do have an early,

early round exit this season? I mean, I think we all know the blame goes to the star ultimately, right? Like, end of the day, like, it's going to be on first take. It's talking about five players. And the guy, the main guy, that's, that's part of being the main guy is you're going to get the, you're going to get the blame for it. I think there's no question about that. No matter what actually happens, it's going to ultimately go on, Luca.

Well, there you go. I'll say a quick break. I want to talk about a star on the decline. And we are back. Charks, I don't know, I don't know how much you listen to the show, but we have a Russell Westbrook fanatic here, and it kind of pains me whenever I bring up.

No, we ain't about to start, no, we ain't about to start that shit. Nope, nope. What you mean? Nope. What you mean? No. I know what you're about to do. Nope.

I'm about, I'm about to ask you a question, my guy. No. I can't ask you a question? Go ahead. All right. So, Westbrook. has been going through it all season, right? And I don't want to talk...

We've already discussed his on-court performance. And... But I want to talk about some stuff that's going off-court with him, right? His wife talked about how the family is getting death threats and all of these things. Now, that is fucked up. That is not cool. But Westbrook went... had a post-game presser.

and talked about how he does not want to be called West Brick by people around the league and commentators. They're putting dirt on his name and all of these things. And it's been an evolution of how he takes trash talk from the fans this season. And I remember after a game in Sacramento, he said he welcomed critiques. And now it seems like it's weighing on him. is this tenable for Westbrook? He seems like a guy that stuff gets to him.

I think his lone season in L.A., it seems like stuff has gotten to him. Is this warranted? Should he be going out of, should he be going at the media establishment for calling him West Brick? Is that fair game? Or is there a little sensitivity there?

Fans can say whatever they want. Like, I don't, I mean, death threats, like that's, I mean, that's not cool. That's purely ignorance, right? Like, that's, uh, but, you know, like, I've been in that space too when, when I ran a foul of Kobe, like, you know, I, we got those. Like, and the point is, it should never happen and that's never excusable. Um, in terms of being called Westbrook and being, being kind of written by the fans,

like, that's part of the gig, man. It's part of the gig. Like, I, you know, you don't have. have to like it, but it's part of the gig, bro. Like, you're subject to people in those stands, you know, bullying you, calling your names, yelling airball if you miss it. Like, we all know that that's baked into the pie. I draw the line with media nicknaming someone Westbrook. I think he has a point if I didn't see his statement, but if it is media that he's asking to stop calling him Westbrook, I would agree with him. That's not your place. Like as a media member, it's not my place

to nickname him Westbrook or anything like that. But fans, like you don't get to ask fans to stop calling you something, if that's the nickname that they've adopted, and I mean, that is what it is. I mean, nobody wants to be disrespected. No one wants their family name to be disrespected. So I certainly understand where it's coming from. I think it's like the word should. A lot of things should happen in this world that just aren't going to happen. You know, like, that's kind of what Raja was saying. Like, I've been to plenty of games. I've never been someone who thought that made even sense to, like, yell at players. I don't even understand that mentality, honestly.

but I know it's going to happen. I don't know what there is to be done about it. I don't know that complaining about it. It's not going to make it worse. It would be my guess, right? Once they know you get under your skin, they're just going to do it more. It's not like it's going to stop.

So I don't know. I feel a little bad, but obviously he'll be all right. I'm sorry, you're getting insulted. It's a tough world. I get it, you know. Yeah, look, it ain't work. Russ in L.A., and you know I love Russ, Russ, man. And I do.

I just see, no, but it's funny because I've seen you just like, it's just, it's, it's, this season is just kind of taking a lot out of you with the Russell Westbrook fandom. And it's just taking a lot. I remember the beginning of the season where it was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now we talk about Russ. It's like, uh, uh, well, you know, it's not really on court for me, man. Like, you can have an off season. Like, you can, you know, I didn't look at his numbers today to tell you, like, what percentage points they're off and how many he's averaging versus. I, I don't know. But, like, you can have an off. There can be a bad fit for you, you know, in terms of an organization.

And I can still, you know, keep my fandom right where it was. But what's kind of, it hasn't really turned me off, but it's let me see another side of Russ is the dealings with the media, some of the comments with, you know, with what he expected the Lakers to be as a team and kind of the lack of ownership at times of the, you know, of the kind of of the poor play, you know, and a lot of finger pointing. And then sometimes you just got to say, man, I'm not playing well.

I'm not. Like, I mean, shit, it happens, you know, but I'm working my ass off and I'm trying to be better. And I can't tell you when that's going to happen, but I won't stop working. I can promise you that. You know what that buys you with people? What that buy you?

Boy, that shit buys you a lot of time, buys you a lot of goodwill and faith with fan bases. If you can just say, hey, dog, look, I know, not fucking fully holding up my end. of the bargain right now. But I am working my ass off. I promise you that.

I am in there every day when y'all ain't looking and I'll be out here competing every single night until it gets better. That shit will at least buy you until you could get traded. But you sit up there and you know,

you sit up there and you blame everybody else and telling the, like, that shit turned me off a little bit, man, but I still fuck with Rush. You know that. Yeah. It's kind of like what Raj is saying. I mean, sometimes you just gotta take the L.

Like, we all take L's in this life. It's okay. Like, just got to, I mean, everyone sees it. Just take it. move on. I mean, it happens. I don't know. The utter defiance, though, has been been a lot. Because, I mean, I think

we've seen it a lot in Oklahoma City and even in Washington. Like, hey, man, like, I know what I do. I do what I do. And I think that it builds up Russ's psyche in a lot of ways. And that just hasn't worked in L.A. where you got a lot of eyes

on you. You're coming home. You got people, not only us talking on podcasts, but when you at the crib, people are in your ear. People are telling you about, you know, you got a lot of your family around there. You're not isolated when you're with the Lakers. You're a story every single day. And it's interesting, man.

Like some, I think Russ is showing that like, doesn't matter what kind of star you are. Some stars just aren't built for L.A., bro. Or these, or they may, it may be one of those things where you, you know,

or the L.A.s or New York's. But I think we're seeing now, man, a lot of people are just built for small markets. And that's okay. You know, that's what I think. That's what I think. with the Russ situation.

A lot of guys just aren't built for the brightest lights. It could be that, but I think it's not just LA. I'm reluctant to say that Russ isn't built for LA. Russ isn't built to be on a team with LeBron in LA that's not playing well. That's a lot. That's a different animal than just being in LA.

You play with LeBron. Not many people play with LeBron when someone isn't like hurt and their whole as a team. and have the lack of success that they've had this year. And so that just amplifies everything. If Russell was like, if this was Russ and AD, do you think it would be different? Do you think like, how's so?

Yeah. Well, I mean, you don't, you extract, you extract LeBron from those situations, bro, and there's a different level of scrutiny that a team comes under just off the bat, right? LeBron's not there. But number two, I would make the argument that if LeBron wasn't there, Russ would look more like himself. And so you wouldn't get the level of like, man, you, you, goddamn, bro, all your numbers are falling off, bro.

Because he'd still be in that space of doing what he's always done, which is ball in his hands, volume, volume, volume. And so the numbers are at a place where at least you can, you know, defend a, plays his ass off, he plays hard every night. You know what I mean? And fans kind of, you know, fan base is, you know, when he's yours, they like that because they see how hard he's playing. Now, I might not win championships and it might wear thin eventually,

but I don't think it becomes what it is right now. Okay, I'm curious you say that, Raja, because with the Lakers lately, I kind of feel like LeBron's decided, this team ain't going anywhere, but I'm going to get my numbers, so nobody gets nothing about me. I feel like there's kind of been a switch flip for him.

Like, you know, we might be losing, but my numbers are still my numbers. I'll make sure that's still the case. Yeah. No, I think you could definitely see LeBron trying to prove that this shit is not me. Like, this is, fading in the

career of LeBron James, not as of yet. And, you know, I'm interested to know whether that's like, hey, man, I'm trying to get these records and get, you know, or if it's like out of pressure and necessity from, from his

own kind of vantage point. Like, yo, man, this shit is ugly. This shit's going to start reflecting on me. I have to go out and prove that it's not. You know, that's an interesting dynamic because I've seen it too. It's, I don't know. It's interesting. just because just the special kind of shit show that the Lakers are this year. It's just it's it's it's it's it's it's disheartening in all ways.

But I don't know. LeBron's is just in a weird space. Like when he played against the Warriors the other day, man, goes for 56. That was the hardest I'd seen the Lakers play all season. And I feel like if they would have played with that tenacity, they probably would have won about 50 games. And I just kind of wish that like it didn't have to be this way. It didn't have to be this way.

It's just very unfortunate. of this Lakers team right now. They look like a toxic locker room to be in. You asked me earlier about players being in locker rooms where someone feels like they're getting the short end of the stick and they don't feel like they're getting the touches they deserve and what that does to a locker room. I'm not saying that that's the exact case in terms of personalities and stuff,

but that locker room eventually winds up looking like this locker room, which looks toxic. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of leaving toxic locker rooms, Let's go to the Philadelphia 76ers. You've been practicing, son. I've been locked in. That was a good segue.

That was good. That was good. You see the vibes. Y'all see the energy. They were, Danny Green was on Rissillo show, was talking about just James Hardin and talking about how James Hardin

has just been a reclamation project onto itself, just been great in Philly. To the point where like Danny Green is saying, oh, he's one of the hardest work good players I've seen. He's out here.

He's out here playing. Like I said, he's running a 4, 340 and they're just running fast breaks. Are the Sixers just, because we were talking about this as the Sixers are going to play the Nets tonight. Are the Sixers just, are they going to run the table in the Eastern Conference Sharks? Let's top the brakes a little bit.

I got a chill. I got to chill. Okay. My bad. Let's, I mean, I got to chill. I relax.

They look great. But the playoffs are a different animal. It always looks good at the beginning. I remember when Hart is, Gordon came to the Nets. It was all love. It was looking great. You know, Hardin's really moving the ball, lot, da, lot. Let's just see, you know, they're down to one to Milwaukee in a game for what's going to happen. Not that they can't do it. They got all the town in the world, but I do want to see it. I miss Christaard saying there's some great teams at these. It ain't just the Sixers. It's facts. I think a level-headed approach is appropriate here. All right? I think, Logan, you know that as much as much as it's looked great so far. It is a very small sample size.

But you don't understand how great it's been looking, no, right? Like, they're talking about, he looks slimmer and red. They're talking about how he's just smiling. You know what's... What's interesting to me about that is I think it speaks less to James Hardin, if you can believe I'm about to say this, because you know how I feel about, like,

but I think it speaks less to James Hardin and more to, like, what was going on in Brooklyn and how messy that is. You know what I mean? Like, I really do. I feel like, I feel like James Hardin has kind of probably kept his mouth shut about all that he saw in Brooklyn, if that makes sense. He was just happy to be the hell out of there, and he feels free again. And so, you know, I'm happy that he's playing great.

I really want to see Ben Simmons on the court. I want to see what Brooklyn looks like. But not surprised by the Sixers. I'm just, I'm in the camp of there are a lot of really good teams in that damn east. And I got to see it in the playoffs. Like I ain't saying it can't happen, but there are a lot of good teams in that east. Ross, a pure teammate, just like slightly switching gears, a pure teammate of Kyrie Irving's. If you see them drop 50, are you hella juiced or are you like, what the fuck?

Where are you doing? How are you feeling? You really want to go down this road? You're trying to put the battery in my back? I'm trying to put the battery in my back today, man. Let's get it. Let's get it. Let's get it.

No, no. Now you can manipulate me on here today. What would you, how would you feel? How would you feel if that happens? Good for you. Good for you, bro. Good job, dude. you're not giving them a high phone

just like that hey good shit homie you're not like yeah good shit homie we'll see you in a week we'll see you on the next road game hey thanks for the 50 ball bro we'll hollel we'll see you know I mean you stay you stay in you stand here or you're coming on the plane with us you're right right oh you're hitting the Kaman's for a few days

dog okay we'll see we got we got three home games um all jokes aside like it's got to be for I would be frustrated. I mean, sure. Everyone wants, everyone wants to have a guy on their team that they know can go off like that. It just, you know, your margin for error just increases, you know, exponentially. But like, shit, it's got to be frustrating again to calibrate to that or at least get your, you know, I mean, wait, what was the movie, man? It was Harlem Knights.

I forget her name, man. She was talking to like Red Fox and she was like, you got my mouth already for some orange juice and there's only a swallow in a container. right? Like, but that's the shit though. Like I'm like looking like man, this shit could be what it is. And no, no, we ain't got you this for four games in a row. Like that's got to be over frustrating. I got another Harlem Knight's reference.

Kyrie is like Arsenio Hall when the shot, when he's shooting the gun, that's the rest of the team. That's the rest of the Brooklyn that's just shooting all season. And then Kyrie comes with the, with the random. Pahre hits the little 22. Pah! He said, you shoot that gun again. Sharks, what are you?

about Brooklyn right now going for the rest of the season. It's not tenable, is it? It can't be tenable. I don't understand what's going on up there. Like, I just don't even understand. Like, I thought he could play. I don't, like, I'm not a municipal political expert. I don't know these rules.

Like, I don't understand what's happening. I obviously, I love watching Kyrie play. I love watching KAD play. Let's just get out there and play basketball, guys. Let's get Simmons out here. Like, is he hurt? Come on. Like, let's go.

I just want to watch them play basketball until until we do. There's just nothing to say almost, right? Like they haven't played together. We don't know what it's going to look like. And obviously on paper it looks fantastic, but that don't mean much, really. It doesn't. And you're creeping on. I mean, what are we like 15 games now?

Like a month away from the postseason, bro. I mean, that's a lot to ask people to just solidify roles and get comfortable and just. And I would, I mean, I hear people tell. telling me all the time, oh, like, Ben's not playing. His back's hurt. And so rather than throw him out in game situations, they're trying to get him in game shape, you know, behind closed doors before he gets in. You can't get in game shape behind closed doors. That doesn't happen. That's not physically possible. It's not physically possible 20 games into the season when you've got a wealth of bodies that can go play like four on four and five on five. At this point in the

season, you're not even doing that because, you know, like everybody's banged up to some degree. So you're barely getting any work in. So, you know, I am really concerned about what his health situation is. But even if he comes back healthy and looking good, that's such a short amount of time to get everybody on the same page. I have my concerns. I don't know if it's going to happen, man. It's not this season.

It's not this season. I don't even know if they, do they get into the postseason? Do they figure it out on the playing? That's one game. That's a one hit or quitter. You could lose. I don't know. It's interesting, man.

It's interesting. That was, Roger, that was like a AAA battery. I was a AAA battery in your back. It wasn't like the big battery that we would normally have. The electric car Tesla battery. It wasn't that. It was the, it was the, it's a small one, man. You can tell.

It's kind of like sometimes you got a fast break. The guy gets three and he thinks about it. No, no, no. We're running back. Get the offense going. We get the ball of the four guard. That's what that was. He's going to play in there.

This one. He still scored. I don't quite have it. We'll run a play. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah. He's so good.

No, he's so good, though. man. Like, do you know, I think it's not, jealousy is the wrong word because I'm not jealous. Like, I'm just, I love, I, he's so brilliant. Like, it is so cool to watch that, but Kyrie that I just get really, really frustrated, like, about the situation. And I try to see it from like KD's perspective and Steve Nash's perspective. And then just as a general fan, it sucks because like you want to see him play.

Yeah, and either way, I just like, let's just get Katie in the playoffs. We all saw what happened last year in the Bucks. when he, what, game seven overtime, pretty much playing one on five against the eventual champs. Let's get him in the playoffs. Let's just see what happens. Let's appreciate who knows how, I mean, Katie gets her all the time. Who knows how long we got? Let's just appreciate what we got with him.

So actually, I went to Texas. I was there when he was at UT. So I've kind of gotten to see the whole progression. And it's been awesome to see. Love Watches and Play. It's amazing to think about where he was at 18, how much he's added to. his game in the last 15 years. And I, I've, I've just loved watching it. I love watching them play and get these guys to the playoffs. They probably won't win, but I'm going to enjoy watching

them either way. Facts. Fuck yeah, man. That's a great place to end. Charks, man, before we get you out of here, we got to, we got to do a segment that we like to call real one of the week. Right. You've got to figure, you got to figure. Let me look one up real quick, bro. You got to figure it out. Charks, you got one? I'll just, I'll start it right back up. You good. I thought you were going to ask me for like the was it Jomi segment that why are you real mad why are you mad?

Why are you mad, son? Tell him why you mad. I got mine. You got yours? I got a real one of the week. I got a real one of the week for you. I got to give a shout out to Roy Williams, UNC coach. Great career. He just walked away.

And I guarantee you he was enjoyed himself last Saturday. I'm guarantee you he was having quite the time. I respect it. I respect everything you did last Saturday. That was an all-timer. Yeah, man.

I'm going to go with the, I'm probably going to take Raj's thing. I'm going to go with the Phoenix Suns, man. Earned a playoff berth. Been the best team in the league all season long.

Really good story, man. You know, I respect it. And I really love watching him play. So I'm going to go with the Phoenix Sun. Raja, former Phoenix Sun, son, son, and Doug Dee hopefully one day. Who you got?

This is this is this is going to be an entity. I'm going to give it to the NFL. I'm going to give my real one to the NFL because they were talking about doing this little bubble around the combine and all of that. And then the agents and the kids were like, well, no. If we can't be there and have the access to them, then we won't do it. And I'm glad the NFL understood that they needed to have this combine because did either of you watch the combine? Like, did you see what these boys? See, I just like to see them do as run.

Like I appreciate the speed. Like, do you know what 4-2-1 looks like? Yeah, it looks like James Hardin in his first game with the Sixers. There you go. He was getting up and down that court. But yes, the NFL for putting the combine on because I enjoyed watching it. I enjoyed watching them boys fly up and down. It was a fast track in Indianapolis.

So real one of the week for putting it on. Man. And that has been another edition. Thursday, Real Ones. Sharks, thanks for coming on, Brody. Make sure you guys check out Jonathan Sharks and Jake I have a question for you before you get out of your truck. Does Jake Howell Man have like the best voice on the ringer?

Because I think he has the best voice on the ringer. It's unbelievable. He should be on NPR or something. It's an amazing. I just want him to voice over like the rest of my life. Logan Murdoch. I just got up out out bed today. I can't even do it, but it's a great voice.

So make sure you check out Upside High with Jonathan Charks and Jake Howl Man. Makes you check out weekends with Wals. Make sure you check out Ball in the Boy with KOC. Make sure you check out group chat. Make sure you check out The Answer with Sirius Sully and Chris Ryan. Make sure you check out to have to keep the time to keep the propaganda going. Ra, check out R2C2 with who. Belial legend, Cresight Clown, Cici Sabathia.

Make sure you check out Black Girl's songbook with who, Rogerville. Daniel Smithtown legend, Daniel Smith. Getting the stretch run. Real ones. We'll see you next week. Holla.