The Ringer NBA Show - How the Steph Curry–Led Warriors Connect to the Tim Duncan–Led Spurs. Plus, What the Nets’ Coaching Staff Is Missing | Real Ones

Episode Date: April 4, 2022

Logan and Raja dig into their feelings about UNC beating Duke over the weekend (1:00), where Lakers head coach Frank Vogel could end up when he inevitably gets fired after this disastrous season (11:00), and what more the Nets need on their coaching staff (22:00). Then Logan describes his theory of how the present-day Steph Curry–led Warriors connect to the Tim Duncan–led Spurs (26:00) before Raja explains why we haven’t yet been able to have a ‘Bridgerton' Boys appearance with Season 2 up on Netflix (37:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producers: Sasha Ashall and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and catch phrases into history. Listen now. We're popping. Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Roger, how you doing, buddy? I am good, Logan. You're good?

Yeah, I thought, like, you wanted more to, I'm good. All right, cool. I just, you know, I just wanted to see how you were doing, buddy. I didn't see. Can I, can I be honest with you? I'm going on. What's going on?

What's going on? I think I've addressed this before. It was never a very big Duke fan until Oh, I met Coach K. I met Coach K when he was working with the USA team. I was playing for the Suns. But growing up, you know, I was a big Georgetown fan and I just had this perception of what like Duke players or it was a misconception.

But I had this idea of what they were and it didn't really appeal to me. Then I got to meet Coach K and I thought he was super dope. And so I was a little crushed this weekend, super excited for Huber Davis and UNC. But like I kind of wanted. I wanted the final, I wanted it to just kind of write off into the sunset. I wanted Coach K to get his last moment. I thought it was fairy tale. It was a great game, but I kind of wanted Coach K to win.

That's my confession. You wanted Coach K to win. And Coach K in this right now is like in the fate, or is in the phase of his career of like that we've seen now with, I guess over the last decade, with Kobe and Tom Brady. Tom Brady. Obviously, he's a class above them because he's just done it for a longer time. But in the context of this argument that I am about to make, he is in that class of people where they were so polarizing at a time, but the longevity just overcame all that polarization.

And now just everybody fucks with them. Like, there's obviously some people that are like, nah, nah, never, never. Like, even me with Tom Brady was because I grew up in the Bay and the tuck rule. It was a freaking fumble. Shout out Charles Woodson. We out here, Raider Nation all day. But ever since then, you know, you kind of saw that with Brady. But as time we're on, you're like, man, I'll put, I'll put Serena Williams in there as well. Just where you're just like, man, just the longevity speaks for itself. And I started to see that with Coach Kay, where, you know, we are, we always know the

juxtaposition between those Duke Blue Devils and the, uh, the FAP5 Michigan, right? Those are two different ends of the spectrum when we talk about not only college sports, but America in general, where, you know, if you're either a Michigan guy or you are going to Duke. And even within the confines of North Carolina, you are a Carolina guy or you are a Duke guy. There is no in between. But over the last, I think Team USA had a lot to do with it. But over the last, I think, decade or so, Coach K has become one of those guys where he's just Teflon. I remember I saw him at the opportunity to see him. um in lansing michigan a couple years back and i was going to uh i went to draymond green's uh jersey

retirement and they were happened the michigan state happened to play duke and i remember i was about to go on the court to see like the uh the jersey retirement and coach k walked by me and it was like it was like i don't know it was like some angelic figure walking next to you bro it was fucking coach k and like i had to write on deadline that night but i made sure that i watched coach k post-game presser because there's only a couple of dudes like that at sports left right now where they're just

the idea of them just like matches up with just when you see them in person and Coach K is just one of them dudes man. I got to salute Coach K. A few years ago I might not have done that. Right now it's just like damn, end of an era. End of an era, man. I have a good friend of mine who

we used to go to five-star basketball camp. I used to be in awe of this. Oh, legendary camp. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I used to be in awe of the guy who is now my friend. He wound up going to Duke and playing for Coach K for a bit. But as I'm reading Coach K's book right now, or the book written on Coach K, you know, I kind of forgot that he would come from the Bobby Knight School.

And my buddy used to tell me when he transferred out of Duke to be you on just the random night sitting around drinking beer, how hard it was playing for Buddy. like if you were, you know, not blessed enough to be on his good side. So if you found yourself in whatever, you know, crosshairs he had, how miserable it could be. And for him it had been that because he wasn't, you know, I guess he didn't live up to the hype or what Coach Kay thought he could be. And so not only was I like a Michigan, Georgetown, North Carolina fan,

but I had this fuel too for my buddy like, yo, that man's a fuck Coach K. But again, when I got to meet him, you know, and I got to talk to him and got to be around him. And then what happened in Phoenix? Okay. He was there working with USA basketball, and Jerry Colangelo was, you know, in charge of it, and they were tasked with picking a team, and he was just looking around at different people. I think Mike might have been on his staff. And they actually considered bringing me to a USA training camp as they were trying to make the teams more well-rounded

and have these role guys that would do some of the things. I had already played for the Virgin Islands, so I didn't qualify. But the point was, I got to know I'm there. And then I got to know the likes of like the Grant Hills and the Shane Badiys and the other guys who had played at Duke, you know, and you start to realize Gerald Henderson, you know, that they weren't exactly what I thought they were as Coach K wasn't. And so again, man, I was just a little shout out to Coach K and the Duke Blue Devils. I was a little heartbroken. Every time I hear about Coach K, I heard like, you know, he kind of, he kind of a fun. He kind of, yeah, you look it out, he's kind of a lit dude.

I don't know him like that. I don't know. I just heard that like he just, you know, he obviously, he's the coach K that we all see and stuff. But like the people that know Coach K, similar like with Popovich or somebody, the people that know him know that like he's with the shits. I don't know.

I imagine the way he's been able to just kind of evolve, you know, from a dude, it was fascinating reading this stuff though, like, you know, his upbringing and, you know, the conditions. that were at West Point. I don't know if I told you this, but I went to West Point on one of my visits, and I know this isn't like where we were going with the pod, but one of my first visits was the West Point. And I got, you know, they put you up in a hotel at night. It's beautiful,

right? And then in the morning you roll down. Where's West Point? I'm eager to where West Point is. Where's West Point? It's up in upstate New York. I don't know exactly what town it is. But the Hudson is prominent. Like, you're coming down and there's this fog and it's gorgeous. I'm a kid from Florida. And it's like cold out. You see the steam rising off the Hudson and you're clearing all this fog. You're like, man, this shit is dope, man. I'm going on my first visit. And we get to West Point and you come through the gates and you're like, oh, oh, wait.

All of these boys are in like, they're like in their dresses, their dress blues and they're standing out there. Like, and the revelies going off and they're at attention. And I'm like, shoes are shined. Okay. No, I'm like, this is not for me. Take your flip-blops off, Raja. Nah, dog. But so I wasn't billed for that.

But seeing, I guess back to my point was a guy who could kind of go through that. and be shaped by that and then shaped by Bobby Knight. And then, you know, knowing what all of that is about and for him to have kind of morphed as a coach through all of these decades to be able to coach the type of kid that is gracing the AAU courts now, completely different animal than when he started. He's got to have a great spirit about him like a Popovich, right? Like you got to be able to get down and behind closed doors at least have a good time and be relatable to your players. otherwise you don't continue to be able to do that at such a high level. Man, we usually don't do a real one of the week on Mondays, but, you know, shout out to Coach Kay, you know.

Shout out to Coach K, bro. You know, a mob at Mondays or something. I don't know. It's something. Shout out to him. While we on, like, Kyle's coach, a shout out to Donald Staley, too. We see you. We see you.

We see you. Go ahead, Queen. We see you. Alia Boston, one of Virgin Islands finest. Lock in. All right, man. Let's talk about, you know, we've talked about greatness. Let's just go to the, let's just get some balance into this podcast.

Let's not talk. Let's talk about the exact opposite of greatness, okay? All right. A place where, Raja, it's not great. It's not great. It's sunny. Not great. There's palm trees.

There's beaches, you know? There's Malibu. But there's no greatness that are going on right here in this city. Talking about the Lakers right now. And talking about a coach that just has not, I don't want to blame this coach. I don't want to blame him too much because I don't think a lot of this is his fault is up beyond his control, but I think he's going to be out of a job in, say, like, three weeks.

Talk about one Frank Vogel. We're talking about this in the wake of the Lakers. I guess they're mathematically correct. Mathematically in the plan, they can still make it. I know I want to go see them on Thursday in San Francisco. I don't even think I'm going to, I'm going to go to the game, but I don't think that the Lakers are going to even field a team by then. I think it's just going to,

they're going to just sit down all their starters. They're going to sit down LeBron by then. But it's not looking good. They're, I think, two games out of there. But anyway, Plank Vogue is going to be out of a job. Me and you, it comes to a, what me and you were talking about prepot, and I love the prepot, pod talks with Ra,

because we just get up segments. And one of the things that we were talking about is just what it's like to be a coach and what it is, what might be next for Frank Vogel. What do you think is next for Frank Vogel? Because honestly, I don't think he's not going to be back next year. I think that we can all agree. I don't even say it would be a shocker that he'd be bad. I don't think he's going to be back. What's next for Coach Vogel?

One of two things. I mean, yeah, it's not another head job right now. So it would be either you take a year. And I don't know that he's got the personality. for analysts work and stuff like that. I don't really know him. He might. I'm not saying that he doesn't. But some guys need a refresher. They need to step away, do something like that to kind of clear the head, get the funk off and just get back to neutral. But I imagine he winds up on someone's bench in a defensive coordinator capacity, if you will, which is really interesting because like the Lakers, the shit show that they are, are awful offensively this year. Right. And they think they're 22nd in the league in terms of offensive efficiency, only to be Trump.

by their 23rd in the league representation of defensive efficiency. Hey, Raja. Like, they're just bad. What did you say about a championship team? What are the two things that they need, Raja? Yeah, you got to be close. You have to be top 10 in both of those. That's what champions.

What's that? We got to know. We got to, what is it? What are you got to be top 10 in Roth? Right. You got to be top 10 in offensive and defensive efficiency, brother. Like, you have to be, that's what it is. Look it up.

Like, you have to be. And I'm not talking about 12th or 13th in the league, let alone 22nd and 23rd. you're in the bottom third of the league and boat. And that's a direct reflection of Frank Vogel. I'm not blaming him, but I mean, like how can you not be culpable for that when you're the guy in charge? I imagine he winds up as a defensive-minded,

a defensive coordinator type of coach. And there are teams out there that look like they could use that. I mean, one that comes to mind is one that's near and dear to our heart. Like Brooklyn is good. as they are offensively, they are really, really, really bad defensively. And while last week on the pod, I said that I believed them to be a very, very scary, you know, opponent for a lot of teams, you know, I'm kind of recalibrating my thoughts on that because in a one game scenario, yes, but over the course of seven, if you can't sustain a consistent defensive effort,

you're going to get beat. Like, that's why they have seven games. So you can't get that flash in the pan night that I saw in Miami where, you know, Kyrie was locked in. Andre Dumber was locked in, KD was locked in, everyone else was locked in. And they look like a team that you're like, oh, shit, there's some real sound defensive principles and energy there. It's not true. I mean, it's why they are where they are in terms of the league stats. And it's why they are where they are in terms of overall standings.

So I don't know that this is necessarily like a shot in anyone in Brooklyn because I don't mean to frame it like that. But I think they need someone on that staff that is a defensive. guy, like a presence there. I don't believe there's anything wrong with their schemes. I don't think their philosophy has problems. I think their culture is fine. But I do think you have to have someone there who identifies as a defensive guy.

And the players look at it. Like Steve, my guy, right? I love Steve. You know that. Steve knows that. I don't know that any younger generational. Yeah. I don't know that anyone from a younger generation, my boys included, when you said Steve

Nash to them would say, oh, defense. They're just not going to say that. No offense, Roger, but I don't think we would say defense for anybody related to that son's run. I don't think, I mean, you, that's you and tricks is like the only two that we would say. Just no disrespect. No, but my, yeah, but my point, my point is, like, even if Steve is preaching, breathing, fire, defense and doing all of that, he's got to have someone behind him where people are like, yeah, that motherfucker doesn't play about his defense. Like, and I identify him with defense.

So when Steve's talking all of this shit, and my first inclination is to be like, oh, shit, like you ain't about no defense. Well, I just look right over your shoulder and there's a motherfucker standing there that I know is about defense. I think you brought up a good point with the number two defensive person, right?

Where if you look at all the great teams in the league that are great defensively, they have a number two person. They always have to because it's just dividing all. of the responsibilities, right? Because when we think of a head coach, this is the captain of the ship.

You can't just be, it's just like a head coach in football, right? It's like a head coach in general. You have to do, you have to be, you got to say Frank Vogel for a second. You have to make sure LeBron's good, right? Then you got to make sure Russell Westbrook

is not, you know, is fine with being benched. I'm just saying, hi, but you've got to think about those things. You got to think about if AD is going to come back on time. You don't have as much time to think about the micro-managing of a team and all these things and making sure that things work. And it's interesting you say that we use Brooklyn as an example, because same with Nash.

It doesn't make him a bad defensive coach. He has to think about, go, is Kyrie going to play tonight? How do I make sure the game plan is going to work? But it's interesting that you say about a defensive coordinator because I think about a Tom Thibito, right, who has had really good success as a head coach. I'm not going to get me wrong. But I think that we also see that he's better suited as an elite assistant because of what we saw during his time in Boston where he's yelling out the coverages. You get here. You get here.

You ice the screen. You know, you play back. You know, that's. the kind of things that these teams need. And I think we get lost in that when we talk about when we talk about when people hire a staff. I think about the Kings, for instance, where your lead assistant when you're Luke Walton is Alvin Gentry. And immediately, as soon as you hire an Alvin Gentry, someone you got Luke Walton, who you didn't hire, that was a team that hired him to your staff. And you're looking over your shoulder, you know?

You got to pick that thing right. You've got to pick it right. Let me go back to Steve real quick, and you talked about it. Steve's got one of the hardest jobs in the NBA. I think the hardest job in the NBA. Yeah, Tylood tried to tell you all this years ago about, and every he got like clown because he said how hard, you know, he was talking about how hard his job was when you were dealing with

like LeBron and the Kyrie and people were like, ah, but I wish we had those problems. And in some respects, yes, I get it. Like, it's an embarrassment of riches. Like, you'd love that problems like that. But the ego that is the NBA player and the drama that surrounds the NBA player, when you're sitting in that head seat, I mean, that is a lot of distraction. It's a lot of moving parts. It's a lot of consoling and counseling.

You're essentially the head coach and wearing part of the GM's hat at the same time. And so Steve, this year, in its uniqueness with the Kyrie situation, with the COVID shot and all of that, like, job is really, really hard as is. Just trying to figure out how to keep. No, like, you're bringing, you're bringing. bringing in all-time great and ball usage guys like James Hardin and trying to figure out how to integrate them with Kevin Durand, who might be the best player on the planet. And Kyrie, who's as brilliant as anybody, automatically and organically, all focus shifts to how do we make

this work offensively. It's just a byproduct of bringing all of that in. And so, you know, when you're trying to handle all of that, you run out of hours in a day. And so that is what you're saying you need someone whose primary focus in there is going to be hey man while coach deals with all of that bullshit here's my job this is my box this is the box i'm going to live in every day and so the to get to your point logan is is the the tough part for a general manager or an owner in in this space of hiring a guy like let's say a tom tibodeau or frank vogel is figuring out whether that's a good pairing in terms of their their see tom tibodeau is a great defensive coach he's also too good to just be a defensive coordinator on a team right so it puts him in this weird space of like he's really a good

head coach i think there's a ceiling on that i think it's proven itself out because there's some limitations there but but he's good enough to be one and get your team to certain places he can make an average team good it's i don't think he's i don't think he's can make a good team great. Right, but as a defensive coordinator candidate, if you're bringing him in with a relatively young coach or a coach that might be on unstable ground, like, you have to worry about as an organization. What does that do to the head coach? Does he now lose focus on his job? Is there too much pressure in the seat right next to him for him to really be able to focus and be the best version of himself? There's a lot that goes into those conversations. Now, do you think that

Frank Bogle, because he's not going to be back next year, I can't emphasize that enough. Do you think that Frank Bogle is a guy, and I've only had limited interactions, but I'm not going to say like I know a dude or anything, but do you think he's a guy that can be next season if there is, if he doesn't go to a beach somewhere, because he should just be, he should pick his beach and just stay there for like six months, just chill and just don't do anything and relax. do you think once he gets done with that, do you think he can be a number two coach just to get his bearings back? Do you think he's a guy that can do that? I think he can. I think Frank Vogel's bill for that. I mean, I'm sure he's an alpha. All coaches are in their own way.

But I don't think he's one that you'd have to worry about necessarily trying to outshine your head coach. Right? Like I think he would want to be ahead again for sure. I think he would come in and kind of fit into what an organization was asking him to do as the number two or the whatever you named him. I think that he would be able to do that. I think that like if he does go, it'll be like a Kenny Ackinson year because Kenny Ackinson's in the bay right now. Just making sure, you know, just buying this time, he's probably going to come back into the league. We all know he's going to be a head coach again.

and then go from there. I think that's what it's going to be for Frank. Listen, I'm going to keep it a buck. Sometimes assistance life is a lot. Now, you don't get paid like the head, but. You also don't have the stress of a head coach. That's correct, man. Dog.

You know, I've done them both at a different level, clearly, right? Like, just at the high school level. But, I mean, hey, man, like, sometimes it's cool to be an assistant. I don't know if you ever kicked it. like hung out with Mike Brown. But Mike Brown is, Mike Brown, I mean,

you probably seen him during like, you know, when he was the head coach and stuff like that. Totally different dude, bro. If he had hair, he'd just be letting it free right now. You know,

he's, he's going, he's chilling. He is color coding what he's going to wear every game, you know, he's, say,

Draymond, come here. I got to just tell you something right fast. He's holding back Steve Kerr. You know, he's just like, yo, man, don't even trip.

It's okay. Let's just go, go back to the bitch. We're down 20. It's love. It's fine. Relax. We all good.

And then he just rides as Harley-Davidson, just around San Francisco and just has this let his win. That's what his assistant coach is. Is that how Mike Brown's living right now? That's how Mike Brown rolls, bro. Let me paint a picture to juxtapose the one you just painted. I was brought in by David Griffin once he got the job. All right.

He called me. I was working for Fox Sports. He called me in L.A. Asked me if I wanted to consult a little bit. So I got home to Miami. Boom, on a flight to Cleveland. Got off that damn plane. It was seven degrees.

It was gray. There was snow everywhere. It was brutally depressing. So he said, hey, Ra, here's what I need you to do. We're going to go in and I fear that Mike Brown. Now, he didn't phrase it like that. He said, I fear that these guys have checked out on Mike Brown. And I was like, okay.

So I've told the story then. I'm like, yeah, I'll be able to tell that relatively quickly. I walked into that practice and it was the exact opposite of what you're talking about. There was Mike Brown, right, looking like he was 12 years older than he was at the time. I don't know how old he was, right? I could see the look in his eye of like, fuck this shit. Like, nobody here is listening to a word I said. Just like almost defeated but still putting on the good face of like, this is my job.

Like you're in a building full of glass, but there's no light coming in. It's just dingy and gray. And I looked around it. It was just, oh, it was so bad. And I see guys shuffling out from like the wait room. Everyone's a couple minutes late, not giving a shit about that with just like a jump, like a smoothie in their hand. And I said to Griff, I was like, hey, man, I, listen, I love Mike, but it's not, this isn't

going to work. And so we're talking about being the head versus being the assistant, right? He was miserable. Here's another thing. Mike Brown wants to be a head coach again. But I think that experience that you just laid out because also, and I didn't know this is going to be a Mike Brown, pop, but shout out to Mike Brown. This is the thing with Mike right now, he wants to be a head coach.

But I think the experience that you laid out, it has to be a really good opportunity for him to go jump and do something else, bro. because, dude, just having a time. He should approach that. That's how I think every assistant should approach it, man. Like, I know we're in this, I know where, I know that we're in this time where it's like, hey, I don't know if I'll ever have this opportunity again, but I'd rather hold out for the right opportunity than just, all right, let me know. What's the other side of that? I, the other side of it, while I agree with you, like in a vacuum, yes, man, like, I want to make sure that this is right.

Like, I, but, you know, this is for all coaches, but specifically coaches of color, sometimes you don't, you know, you don't have the ability or the luxury to be able to sit back and pass up opportunities because they come around so infrequently at times. That's fair. You know, and so you have to hop up, take what you get. get by that, you know, bull by the horns approach and try to make it what it is because, shit, you could sit in an assistant seat. Their dude's been sitting there for 25 years, hoping to get a shot at their own squad. Maybe one of them's turned down the opportunity you're talking about, but it ain't come back around.

So, like, unfortunately, everyone doesn't have that luxury, you know, some people do. They should, they can sit there and turn three, four, five, six, I'm down. But some of them got to just take what they can get. That's a fair point. A.L. Roger, there is something that my... Mike Brown and Steve Kerr and the rest of the Warriors staff all have a common with one team. We're going to talk about that connection at the end of the end of the break. And we are back.

So, Ra, you know, I was watching, I was watching a little bit of, I was watching a little bit of basketball this weekend. I was, I was, just like a tiny bit of basketball. You know, I'm trying to like, trying to, try to. there's a lot of basketball that we're going to be watching over the next two months. You know, there's a little break. But I was able to catch a little, I'm not even going to say, I watched a play, two plays this week here. I saw like two plays of the, the Lakers Nuggets game because I just wanted, oh, it was like, oh, it was a close game. The Lakers are going to do something.

I'm going to watch, let me go to the playoffs. You know, like I said, I want to watch the Lakers play, full squad, San Francisco. go on Thursday. But anyway, watch like two things. And I was like, oh, Yokic is a beast.

Yoakish said, no. Yoak is just, I'm the MVP. I just put the ball in. Just like, went on a run and won the game. And then I watched like a play of the,

the jazz, the Jazz Warriors game on Saturday. And I was watching that. They were down 20. So I'm like, I'm not going to watch this. I'm like, call me back when St.

Steph is here. And then I look at my phone the next morning and I see, oh shit, the Warriors won. Warriors won. They don't have, they don't have Steph Curry. They have Clay Thompson who balled out. They have Juremon Green who, you know, was back coming in a form. They had a friend of the show Jordan Poole on. He was on one, Sasha's favorite player. And it got me to thinking, man. You know, I did that tease at the end of the last segment about the connection that Steve Kerr and Mike Brown have with one organization. And that's the San Antonio Spurs. And we were talking preponderous about the longevity of the spurs, right? They're still, they're about to kick LeBron James and the Lakers up out of the paint for the playing.

They just, they just happen to just be around at all times, right? Just always just happen to be there. And I wonder, do the Warriors have it? that in them over the next decade or so, right? Where they just are a team that's just around. Remember after I always look at the spurs

of just always centered around Tim Duncan, one star. And they had phases where beginning of Tim's career also front of the show, Tim Duncan, where, you know, he comes into the league and wins a title. I think it was

his first or second year and wins a title. Then a couple more years, they go, they win another title, you know, they're one of the best teams, you know, quadruple double, all that. And then they have another resurgence, and they win just one more title in 14, right? Where it's like, oh, excuse me, we're here.

After going to the finals twice. Do the spurs are defined by one, not one guy, but they are defined that run is defined by one Tim Duncan, just an ever-present guy. And I always talk to Steve Kerr about this. And he always compares Steph to a Tim Duncan-like guy. This is just a guy, the rare guy that you build around for, you know, 15, 16 years.

Based on what I've seen, I think there's some seeds that at with the Warriors. With Steph being the catalyst, obviously you have Clay Thompson, Draymond. Then you guys, you got your other guys, you got little homies, comminga. and Jordan Poole, Moody, I don't know how long he's going to be on the team, but I don't know. But I just do see something like this bubbling, Ra. Do you, am I the only, do you, am I crazy?

I hadn't really looked at it like that, but I don't know that you're crazy. I mean, you know, let's start with Steph and KD. I mean, Katie, Timmy D, two very, very stable people. Two very low-key for the most part. You know, Steph's got more shit to him than Timmy D did. But, like, still, I don't think you would have him in, like, the upper echelon of NBA stars out there getting into shit, having, you know, he's got these commercials and stuff. But a really solid dude.

Even more stability. I think the more the stability argument you got going. Maybe not the fame argument, but the stability argument's there. Stability. Yeah. So what I'm saying, yeah, because you can't compare them in terms of fame. And I think Steph is way more marketable, right? Has his fingers in way more of that.

But, like, as a personality, as a person. and I think stable people. And that's really important. And what's going to be interesting to watch Golden State do because they are kind of tracking and there you can draw some comparisons, but they have to continue to hit. The Spurs hit with picks, right? I mean, I love Cominga.

We need to see what James Wiseman does. The Spurs would hit in terms of bringing in late round, second round picks or even free agents. their player development system was crazy good. Golden States is too. So there's some real parallels there as well. You know, and then the Spurs were able to keep that staff together for a long time, Logan.

Like Blood left eventually and stuff, but the Spurs had real continuity on their bench. And it allowed them to keep consistent culture in their building for so long. And those are, you know, that remains to be seen. Golden States had a really good run, but, you know, people are looking to kind of, you know, you had your Jaron's leave and, you know, pieces that may not be big, sexy names, but it's, it will be interesting to see how their departure and if it continues to happen, you know, how that affects the overall, you know, product and the overall organization.

Yeah. I mean, you brought up a good, I mean, Wiseman, we've always talked about this show. He's the key to all of this, you know. I mean, I honestly believe. that. But to your point about hitting on the guys, I think one lesson that they learned during

the flash, I don't know if we can call it Flash Japan, but like the highest of high that they've ever been, right, was with their absolute peak, 16, 17, and then, you know, 17, 18. And I think those are the absolute peak of what the Warriors were, right? I think the biggest thing that they learned was, this isn't sustainable, without player development.

Because, you know, they, if you look at their track record during those runs, they didn't draft. Maybe they drafted well, but they didn't develop well at all. You know, I think about Jordan Bells at a world. I think about the Patrick McCall's of the world. Kavanaughan Luni was one of the lone ones of that,

but Kavon Lune was like, maybe just the one out of that whole group. Right. And he's a rotation player. And right now, though, I think that they, if those, if Cominga, pool and Wiseman can, like, just ascend, Wiseman's out for a year like it's done. That's not happening.

But next year, we're really going to see how good this team is and can be, right? If they can just keep those top six guys. And this, I think this is the test to see if there are, you know, the Warriors, flashing a pan and this is the last remnants of that, or if they are going to be sustained success and maybe get like one or two more titles out of this. Yeah, it's good. His maturation and development into what you would hope the pick warranted is going to be paramount in it.

If you remember the Spurs, it was Tim Duncan. And then it was Tim Duncan and Tony Parker, but Tony Parker was kind of the lead for a couple of years. Tim was still great. But Tony was Tony was Tony. He was doing Tony things. And then it was, you know, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Genoblee featuring mostly Tony and Manu. Can you dig what I'm saying?

Like so every year as Tim gets older, we're lightening the load until it finally got to be certainly Tim Duncan. Yes, Tony Parker. Yes, Manu. But now we're featuring Kauai. So Kauai is the guy. Kauai was a rotation player one time, like once a lot of time. Yeah. He was a rotation player.

And they developed and they kept that skill development and, you know, but that's what you need for that sustained, excuse me, success, that passing of the torch, so to speak. It's what's been so disappointing for me watching the Lakers. I can't speak for Laker fans. But the Lakers just didn't have the continuity though. They just didn't like. No, they don't have. They don't have any of that. But the passing of that torch is what you were. That was the thing you had to get right with the AD trade. Right. The rest of that, yes, they're a shit show. But you had to get that passing of the torch right. And it looks like they fucked that up. Man, that's, I can't wait to just see what this era is. Not that I can't wait to get to 10 years from now, but I can't wait to see how we think about this era of basketball when it comes to, just when we can just have like a, you don't really get to see this until all the players are retired or like,

you know, in those Dirk, Tim Duncan late career stages where, you know, their legacy is pretty much complete. And then, you know, we'll see what happens.

Can't wait to see. see how we think about, you know, this Warriors team, LeBron, KD, Janus is in that and where he fits in, because his run is early. You know, they could still, you know, Bucks, we talk all this stuff about the Western Conference and, you know, just because, you know, my proximity to West Coast, but, oh, man, Bucks could go back to back this year. It wouldn't even be a thing. Let me tell you like this, Logan, wouldn't be a thing. I'd said before I think they're being slept on, but I got to give you your flowers because I defended one, Chris Middleton. And you came on here and you actually apologized to Chris Middleton. And while he's, you know, an All-Star and shit like that,

as of late has not been the second piece that Janus is going to need to win that chip. And so I imagine it boils down to something almost as simple as this. If Chris Middleton is the all-star Chris Middleton, the real bona fide number two to Janus, I think they got as good a shot as anybody. If he is not playing like that, which he is not lately, he has not been, then they can be in trouble. Thanks, Rob. You know what, man, man, but do it again. You know, we're all about giving flowers on this show to, you know, people, persons, and entities.

Guess what we're going to do at the end of this segment? We're going to give some flowers, baby. And we are back. So, Ra, people don't really know this because, you know, this is one of the few things in the pre-pot. earlier we got a lot of stuff in the prepot they don't make it to air probably for good reason um but one of the things last month or so i remember a conversation between you and sasha that i really felt left out on and i felt like what the fuck like i thought we were a family i thought like you guys like i thought why do i got why are you what the fuck why am i not in on the joke right and

i heard either you or sasha say the immortal three words which is yeah i know i not a biape. And I'm like, what is going on? What's this? And then I heard inventing, I was half listening because I'm just like salty that I'm not in on the joke. And you guys were saying to that I need to watch this show called Anna. It's like a scammer show, right?

But I was already on the Tender Swindler. And then you're like, no, you guys got to watch this. You guys need to watch, Logan, you need to watch Inventing Anna. Okay, you need to watch it because you're not a biopé because you're not watching. You know, this is what I was hearing, right? And I watched the show. I just, I,

it was over the weekend. And I'm just like, you know, I'm trying to figure out some stuff to watch. And I just was like, fuck it. I fuck with,

um, the girl that plays Anna Delvey, I fuck with her work because she was an Ozark, right? She's just, Ruth. Ruth.

Why does, so the girl that plays Ruth, I'm sorry that I'm messing up your name. I'm not terrible with names. And it plays Anna Delvey. She always plays a fucking boss. And every role that she does, right but specifically with anna delving so i i'm watching the show which centers around

you guys you guys need to watch inventing an i'm not going to go through the show synopsis basically just some scammer shit that you guys just need to watch right but what i was curious about was why and then i see i see anna delvey and she says to the reporter that is trying to report out the story of her scamming. And the one I was hooked and she goes to jail to Rikers to go see Anna. And she's just like fed up with Anna's shit because Anna's just a scammer. And she's a boss with how she scams. And she goes to Anna and just she's like, I'm pregnant. I am stressed. I need you to just tell me what the story is. Anna, I'm tired of your shit. And Anna, who's a boss, goes,

I'm sorry, did I hurt your sweet little baby, fellas? And I was locked in from there. Rob, when did you get locked in on the show? What it made you, like, love this show? What is the vibe? Why are we on the same page here with our standship of Annadale? Julia Garner is her name, and she is boss. She's, like, quietly, one of my favorite actors.

So I looked at it when Sasha told me about it, shout out to Sasha, because Sasha was on this before me. I had to look up the character. I had not the character, but the actual person, Anna Delvey, read about her, a couple articles and so on and so forth. And so when I tuned in, I was already in because I messed with Julia Garner,

but I found myself knowing, in fact, that this person was who they say she is and had done what they said she did. But being really conflicted over the performance and the way that Julia Garner sold herself, as not being that. Like, I was con watching it.

And so I was in. I was like, well, shit, I can't turn it off now. Like, I mean, every time she said, uh,

my, my trust has the money. I was send a wire. Every time she said it, I was like, yeah, okay, shit, the wire's coming.

Like, like, I'm good. Like, I'm waiting. Maybe, maybe everyone is wrong. Maybe, maybe she's in jail and she shouldn't be.

And so once I was conflicted, like emotionally like that, having known the real, I was like, oh, I got watching this shit. How many times did you... So there's a great cast, right? It's a great cast. Vivian, who was the one of Manhattan Magazine,

who is here pursuing the story. There were times where I loved her, times I hated her, right? Casey Duke. Also, Casey Duke, her character, no matter whose side she was on, I was on Casey's side, the personal trainer. I was on her side because she was just like, She was just a gangster with it, right? Like, I didn't get...

Nep, I was always on her side. Neff and Casey, I was just always on their side. But how many times did you switch on Vivian and Anna? How many times did you just switch like, I'm... Because there were times with me with Anna where I was like, you're fucking asshole. Like, why are you scamming your partner's like this? Why are you doing this?

What is it going on? Why are you scabbing them? They're supposed to be your friends. Why are you doing this? And then with Vivian, I'm like, bro, go, you have a child. Go raise your kid. Yeah.

Right. And then, right. How conflicted were you during this time, during this episode, during this series? I wasn't really conflicted, Logan. I'm always fascinated. I've always been by people who stand in the face of certainty and will have you. Also, hold on, quick question. So, Sasha Mac said something really good.

And I need that. I just need, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, been remiss. remiss if I didn't say it. Rachel being just a snake. Just a snake. Just go watch the episode. How she was a snake and just like, how you die on your potting out? I'm sorry. What you're sorry. No, I'm always, I'm just fascinated by people who will like stand in the face of it, even when everything has crumbled around you, all of the lies, all of the cars, that house you built. It's just, they're all raining down. And people are just still standing there looking at you. in the face trying to tell you that what you're watching with your own eyes is not happening.

Like, no, you're wrong. I don't know what to tell you, but I'm a genius. Like, I've done all of this. And so I now some of it, some of it, because Sasha wants to know about like Rachel and did she get skin. I don't know that you. So there were some really gray areas there. Like, ethically, surely wrong, wrong. Like, you know what you were doing. But you've got people pulling out their cards on their own volition, throwing them down. Like, I mean, I mean, again, ethically and morally, but is that, is that legally? If you take your card out and you're like, all right, Logan, if I take you out to dinner, right? And we're going to a restaurant of my choosing.

It's grand scale restaurant restaurant. And I have some trouble with my funds, let's say. And before we can get to the bottom of it, without me asking you to, you pull out the card and you're like, yo, I'll get that shit. You just get me back. If I then don't get you back, did we break a law? Here's the thing, no. The thing, no, this is another thing. This is, this was triggered.

That scene specifically and, what were it, Morocco? Also, you don't want to fuck around in Morocco, dog. I ain't fucking around in Morocco. You better have your bread together if you go into Morocco. But anyway, I was, so I was conflicted on this, too. From the different perspective of, I work in media. and also I've had experience with company cards. You don't want to fuck around with company cards, bro.

And also, it ain't no work trip. I'm liable to leave the company card at the crib. And also, if she's doing that, if my partner's doing that, right, and it is clearly reckless, and she's clearly richer than me and clearly paying for everything. And she invited me on this trip.

and you know the track record because this was like during other stuff that we know was going on that's fucked up like Rachel knew what was going on she knew like if you asked four or five questions to Anna about what she's going through she's just going to call she's just going to

come with the same shit so she knows she's on bullshit right if you're that close to her I'm not pulling my card out for nothing I'm not doing here's what yeah you are because here's what you left out. Here's what you left out, tough guy. What's that? You left out. You left out the closing ranks of what looked like some sort of security force from Morocco. And their presence might have prompted you to get in that pocket. Like, because that's what she was facing. Like, oh, shit, we're about to be in

prison. Okay. All right. You're right. I did miss that part because that also, the card thing happened before her little new boo was trying to set her straight. What you could have done, though, is what you could have done. You could have just said, like, you could have did, never mind, I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say it. We're on a podcast, but the prepot. I'll say that. I'll leave that for the prepot. But there's a way out of this, ladies and gentlemen, is all I'm saying. I'm not going to divulge how, but if you know, you know, however, but Rachel was walling. You see how Casey was like, I'm sick. I'm leaving, dog. I'm out of here. This is not for me. This This is not it.

What I will say is, though, how much, with a question I have with Rachel, and this is the question that's telltale for the whole pod, the whole mini-series is, was she with it for the clout or was she actually Anna's friend? What do you think, Rob? I think it was a bit of both. I think it was 50-50, maybe 60-40 clout. So, like, I don't, I don't, I mean, I'm not saying that Rachel should have got that. But what I'm saying is, like, poor decisions were made.

And I didn't believe your heart to really be in it for the right reasons, 1,000%. So, like, you know, I think it was 50, 50, man. I think, I think, you know, when you have someone flossing like Anna was flossing, right? And just throwing shit around and buying people what they want. Like, that shit can be intoxicating to some people. NBA, NBA, NFL. All right. People in the entertainment business, people who have a celebrity, they have plenty of them, right?

Like people that are around because of what you can do for them, whether that be in terms of buying shit or getting them access to shit or people, like they're there for that reason. And then there's something that like, you know, just become friends, you know, like you meet them in certain circles. They're friends and they have their kindred spirits and they're not there for that. So it's hard to tell. I think she was probably 50-50, though.

I think I'm with you. I think 60-40 though, because we could have said 50-50, and that's okay, right? That's okay, right? That shit happens. We see it all the time. But when it went to 60-40 and honestly, you can make the argument 70-30 is when she did that fucking Vanity Fair shoot. And it hasn't been really talked about, and I don't know because I don't, I didn't see

any reporting on this. But it does seem like, yo, use Vanity Fair as bread. to make this, like, you did some slick shit with their money, and then you do a Vanity Fair cover. I feel like that was how she recouped. I don't know, but it seems like that's how she recouped by doing her little tell-all story. And now she's doing books and all this stuff right now.

And Anna, I see why Anna was in that jail cell screaming a lot of names towards her. I just see, I see why. See, we're doing it again. We're on Anna's side. We just want to leave on Anna's side. I'm not, though, because my, like, if I'm Rachel in that situation, like, and I'm in this hole, and I don't, I don't see a way out. And I don't really believe that I dug the hole myself, at least completely by myself.

That's my, I'm out. I'm getting out of that shit. Like, if I have avenues to get out, I don't give a damn, whether it's Vanity Fair, Sports Illustrated, TV guide, like, I'm getting out. We're doing these. We're doing these interviews. They're getting done. They're getting done.

All right. We'll see. My favorite one was Neff in the whole series, though, because Neff always was a writer. Even if she was one of the writers that didn't have all the information, you know, or either was just neglectful of the information. Great show. Neff wanted that film made.

She won that film made, bro. She wanted that bread. She needed that film. Yeah. Shout to Neff. I got a question for you, sir, because you are fucking up right now, Raja. Me and Sasha pulled your card.

pre-pod meeting you're fucking up you're letting a lot of people down because you are on just me and sasha have already finished bridgeton there's a lot of people that are waiting on the bridgeton boys to come back sir and you are fucking up because you are not you've only watched one episode and you have not been about your shit raja it's all i'm saying they're waiting for the double bs the they're waiting for the double bs that bridgeton boys raja you are not You are not bad bad pay. You're not bad bad. You're not being a bad pay right now.

I'm not been bad bad bad. I will say it like this. And I've said, I've said this privately. I watched the first 10 minutes of Bridgeton boys. And I was out. Just bear with me. Bear with me. There was no Duke.

They didn't grab me with the quick, like, steeminess and like the sexual tension and shit like that. Now, whether the first season did or didn't, it doesn't matter. Because in my mind, there was so much. of it in that season that I remember it as being that way. Like, I remember turning on that first episode and being like, oh, goddamn, bro. Sex. It wasn't. Sasha would like, Sasha would like you to know.

I don't like to cut you off, but Sasha would like you to know that the first season opened with Anthony's bare ass. So that is someone who would be. She would like you to know that. She's calling bullshit on you, on you that you just didn't like lock up. No, no, no, I'm saying he's right. Season one literally opened with Anthony, like, thrusting and his bare ass. And season two is not, is not like that.

Right. Okay. So that's what I was. All right. But, yeah, thank you, Sasha. I appreciate it. See, Sasha needs to chime in. We need Sasha.

Sasha just doesn't want to chime in like this more. I'm sorry. It's literally just like I don't have my mic and I, I'm just going to have to do Zoom, but it's all right. Sometimes I need straightening. Sometimes Logan needs it. But so anyway, I did a little deeper dive. I watched,

I watched the whole first. episode when I had some time because I wasn't going to like carve out time for it. But I'm in. I'm in. And so here's my promise. You're not going to carve out the time for Bridgson and our fan base? Not if you don't hook me in the first. If you can't hook me in the first 15 minutes, then I can't like, I got four kids,

bro, to run it around this mofo crazy, dog. Like I don't have just time at my, like, in my pocket. So my point is I'm now in and I will start carving out like that hour that I could do something else with. I'm going to get into my Bridgetton. I'll be there. What you were doing that? Give me a week.

Next week I'll have a... Watch episode three. If episode three is not like... If by... Yeah, I feel like episode three, four is where it really starts to be like... We're starting to get back. Because the problem is that in season two, Anthony has like... Who provided a lot, I would say, of the like, scanless, like, stuff in season one.

He is trying to, like, turn over a new leaf now. He's like a different guy. He's like, I'm a different guy now. I've turned over a new leaf. I'm not doing, I'm trying to find a wife. I'm not doing that shit anymore. And that's like why I think it's a little less, you know. Also, Daphne and the Duke get married in like episode three or something.

So the opportunity for them to like do shit because of it being like Regency Britain happens way earlier. whereas Anthony, that's what happens a lot later in the season. So, and now he's trying to be like a gentleman. I don't want to break it to him. Where it's not, we talked about us in the prepot. If it's not like the steamingness, the lack of steamingness gets in the lack of just beautifacate, beautifulness like with the dogg and shit, that all gets like, it all, it all balances out with the lack of the fucking sheer meshiness of season two is all I'm saying.

Six through eight is just a. Run. You know what I take from this? What's that? It's completely my fault. No, it is. I lost myself in like a mantra that I've stuck with for a while since people put me on this when I didn't want to watch scandal at first.

I've lived by this and I fucking forgot myself. Trust in Shonda. Can you dig what I'm saying? We just gave me. I lost myself. Bro. Has Shonda ever fucking? Never.

Never. We just talked about inventing Anna. You know who created that? Shonda Rhines. I guess what was in a... You know the guy we're talking about, you were talking about Rachel's like new boo? That guy was on private practice,

which was also a Shonda show, one of my absolute faves. Try to tell you me and my mom would be watching that together. Okay. Did you see that Quinn Perkins? Quinn Perkins isn't fucking inventing Anna. Also, who's the white dude?

that was chief of staff for bro. And Cyrus B. Cyrus B is in there, bro. And also, he's everywhere. There's just heavy hitters in this shit. I don't know where I'm going, but you need to fucking watch.

Get her to shit, Raja. We got a little bit of time. She's just everywhere all the time. Trust in Shanda. She's going to lead you right. I promise her fingerprints are all over this season. Like, Juliet said something really smart on the, like,

they did a two episode of, or they did like, prestige TV podcast for episodes one through four and then four through eight. And she said that the peak of the season is episode six. That's when like all of the shit happens. It's one of the most insane episodes of TV. I've watched in a while just like how much stuff purely happens in the episode. And she, Julia,

that said a really smart thing that reminded her of like a Grey's Anatomy season finale where it's just like everything is happening, every room of, the hospital is filled. Somebody's having sex here. They're in the closet. This is there. And it's like, I was like, wow, yes. It literally was like a Grazed anatomy final.

I forgot Grazed Anatomy. Just what a run. What a run of. That's a San Antonio Spurs like run for Graz anatomy. It's still going. It's fucking still going. Well done. Who's the Tim Duncan?

Is it Meredith? I don't watch it enough. I just know it's always in my right. Is it actually, oh my God, Miranda? It's like the Spurs for me because I, don't watch it. And I don't really watch the Spurs, but I just know that they're there. Meredith is Koshanda is coach pop. Yeah. But I do think that Meredith might actually be Miranda because she made it all the way through and she carried, I think she carried out her back

a little bit. She did. Miranda might have been Tim. Anyway. Wow. Man, Roger, get your shit together. Okay, we got a couple episodes where we're not probably Bridgeton boys will not be a thing. You have like, you have like a week and a half, I give you. Like a week and a half. two weeks will be good. All right. Done. All right. The playoffs starts you and Rajas.

You really got to get it in before. Lock in. Rara, lock in. I'm locked. I'm locked. I'm locked. And that is less.

Say less. I'm on it. Another edition of Monday real ones. All right. We're getting into the stretch run, baby. All right? We're not fucking around. We're ready to lock in.

All right. We'll see you Thursday. We got a special guest for you on Thursday, okay? But in the meantime, in between time, on Cyrus Bean time. Oh! Make sure you check out our other slated shows on the Rigger Network, baby! Make sure you check out Upside High.

Also, man, real love to Jonathan Charks, baby. You know what I'm saying? Real love, shout out of the Charks. Make sure you check out Icons Club, which has been... I can't put it into words just like how insightful this has been for me as a 20-something kid, just the history of the league. It's such, it's like a fireside chat with all of the greats with Jackie McMullen, Hall of Famer,

talking to Michael Jordan, talking to Dr. Jay, talking to Shaq, just about, just about NBA history. Auntie Jackie is just doing it. So, makes you check out Auntie Jackie. It's my second Auntie Jackie. I got one of them. Word. Check out icons club with Auntie Jackie Mack.

Make sure you check out The Void. Follow the Void with KOC. Make sure you check out the mismatch. Make sure you check out the answer. I was on the answer last week with Syrett. And it was just vibes, just 50 minutes of vibes. We just talked about winning time. We talked about Kevin.

We talked about Kyrie. We talked about just everything. Make sure you check out that conversation from last week. Make sure you check out just like us. Me and Sasha Mac Love Just Like Us. That's a great show. Okay, great show talking about paparazzi culture. The history of paparazzi culture makes you check that out on Ring or Dish.

Let's just keep the propaganda going, okay? Let's just fucking do it, all right, man. Baseball season is upon us, all right? So you've got to check out R2C2 with who, Roger Bell. The Leo legend, the crestside clown. C.C. Sabathe. Fucking right. And you know what, man, it's Grammy Week, or it's the end of Grammy Week.

All right. So make sure you go check out. Get a little music fix. Black Girl's Songbook with who? Roger Bell. Town legend. Miss Danielle Smith. Oh, wow. Oh, that was nice, buddy. Good job, that little church voice. All right, man. We'll see you guys Thursday. Hala.