The Ringer NBA Show - How the Warriors “Stole” Game 1 From the Rockets | Heat Check

Episode Date: April 29, 2019

The first game of the highly anticipated second-round matchup between the Golden State Warriors and the Houston Rockets ended with a conspicuous lack of foul calls (4:04), while in the East, the Boston Celtics proved their formidability with a resounding win against the Milwaukee Bucks (16:02). Plus: the Philadelphia 76ers struggled to contain—let alone stop—Kawhi Leonard and the Toronto Raptors (24:50), and the San Antonio Spurs got knocked out of the first round in a bizarre sequence at the end of Game 7 versus the Denver Nuggets (37:33). Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Dan Devine, Shea Serrano Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of Heat Check is brought to you by Miller Light. When Game Day comes around, there's only one thing on your mind, winning. Miller Light is the beer that's brewed to have more taste with only 96 calories and 3.2 grams of carbs, so you never have to compromise on Game Day. It's a win-win that means game day will never be the same. Miller Light, hold true. Today's episode of Heat Check is also brought to you by Turro. Churro is a peer-to-peer car-sharing marketplace where you can book any car you want whenever you want from a community of local hosts.

From exotic sports cars to practical daily drivers, you can choose the best car for you, whatever the budget. Download the Turo app that's T-U-R-O on the app store or Google Play or visit Turo.com. Get $25 off your first trip when you sign up for Turo and use promo code Ringer at checkout. Terms apply. And now, heat check. Welcome to Heat Check. I'm your host, John Gonzalez. Joined once again, reunited even. producer, Isaac Lee, you're back.

I am back. I was on temporary leave last week for religious holiday reasons. You held down the fort. Thanks to Evan for filling in. And welcome back to you to Los Angeles. You were also back in some sense. I am back. I was in Philly and then I was in Brooklyn.

Then I'm back in Philly. And then came back to L.A. for a quick couple of days. Who knows where we'll end up in the second round. We're waiting for these storylines to develop. But last week, while you're out, we had randomly, some emu talk. And I guess because Brett Brown

had stolen a bunch of emu eggs while he was in Australia. And I was told, so we have listeners, we're an international show. He check is all over the globe, Isaac. So somebody from Australia

named Daniel got at me on Twitter and told me that I'm pronouncing it wrong and he spelled it phonetically for me and I still can't get it, but I think it's emu or MU Emu. Is that right? Emu is correct.

Emu. I'm still butchering it. But I appreciate Kate Daniel and all of our Australian friends reaching out to me, he check is where you go for all your land-based bird takes. Absolutely. We specialize in ground-bound avians, all the ostriches in the world,

all the penguins in the world. We love those kind of animals. Come here for that. Come here for basketball. Thanks for listening. Please rate and review us in all of our fantastic ringer-mbio shows and pods. Be sure to check out all of our playoff content on the rigger.com.

A couple of things here. Isaac Lee, you wrote about the Clippers. You wrote about the Clippers. I want to repeat that. Not only are you an acclaimed international singer-songwriter and a musician and the producer of this fine podcast, but now you are also a writer. You're a polymath. I mean, I had written for the site before, but yeah, it's always fun to do stuff that's

not in my comfort zone. And yeah, it was fun writing about the Clippers. Obviously, that's the team that I love. And this team, this year, especially, was such a beloved team, such a great team. And really wanted to write about them. So go read down on the ringer.com, please. Please go read that on the ringer.com. I was rooting for you.

I was rooting for them. It was a super fun series. It's going to be fascinating to see what happens with them in the off season when they have those two max slots if they can court anybody. So go read that piece. Also read Palo and Haley

on the winners and losers. And I wrote about the Spurs absolute brainlock at the end of game seven. They could have advanced. They didn't because they didn't foul. It doesn't make any sense to me. It made me lose my mind in the moment. I went to bed.

I woke up. My mind still hurt. So I wrote about it. So read that too. Later in the show, we're going to talk to Shea Serrano, our resident Spurs fan, about that bizarre finish to their season. But first, all this other stuff. First round is over.

Second round has begun. And for that, we need an expert with a wide range of knowledge. Let's bring him in. Boom, Chakalaka. He's heating up. All right, joining me on the line. He's a staff writer at the ringer.com. I saw his smiling face in Brooklyn just last week.

It's Dan Devine. What's up, buddy? Not much, God. I'm still smiling. How are you feeling? Good. We're in the second round now. Zach Cram pointed out, the first round was kind of a bust with the exception of Spurs and Nuggets.

That was super fun, although probably less fun if you're a Spurs fan. I was just ready for it to wrap up and get moving, and I'm glad we're in the second round now. You can't see me, but I'm fouling you as hard as I can right now. Who knows if the refs would call it? I have no idea, which brings us to Rockets and Warriors. The end of that game was interesting to say the least the Warriors ended up winning, but the Rockets were down three. and Harden took a three, and there was some debate about whether or not Draymond fouled him. He was sort of in his landing area.

There wasn't a foul called. CP3 got the rebound. He could have taken a layup, and then they could have fouled again. Instead, he dribbled out, and it looked like he got fouled by Clay, and there was no foul on that either. So that led to a turnover. CP3 got pissed off. He got teched for the second time and tossed out, and that was game over. And the Rockets, who did not play particularly well, did not shoot particularly well, could

have stolen a game and instead end up going down one oh. Yeah, I think everybody's favorite thing about the final four, final eight teams being alive is just constant arguments about officiating. It's the best part of the season. It's the thing that we all, you know, we spend 82 games, I don't know, 13 months a year getting to this point. And then all we do is complain, which is to say, not that the rockets should not have their gripes. Like, I mean, there's things, you know, the points of emphasis in terms of giving a shooter space to land. That's been something that's been an issue all season long. It's been, you know, for multiple years, that's been something that the league is focused on. And then all of a sudden in, you know, arguably the most important game of the season

to this point for the Rockets where, you know, they have a chance to steal home court advantage from the number one seed to not have those calls be consistent according to what, you know, what they understand the rules to be and what we've seen called pretty consistently over the last couple of seasons. That's really frustrating. So there's part of it that is that you can understand a Rockets fan having a gripe with this. Part of it that's like, you know, if Hardin doesn't shoot nine for 28, maybe you're not in a one position game at the very end of the game. If you're able to make even more hay off of those 20 warriors turnovers, then maybe you're not in that position at the end of the game. If you don't let the warriors shoot 51% from the floor, maybe you're not in that position

at the very end of the game. So I always have a hard time with pinning it on calls at the very end, but I can understand certainly Rockets fans and the Rockets themselves being sort of up in arms about it's not just the end of the game. There have been several over the course of the game, too, you know, Harden coming down to the end and saying, you know, I just want to have a fair chance. I mean, they still have that. They still absolutely could come back in game two and put forth an even better effort. But, you know, you have to feel sort of disheartened, not coming away with this one. I'm in agreement with you that, you know, like, obviously nobody wants to sit here and discuss the officiating.

And yet, this situation feels like it's sort of become the NFL. Is that a catch? Now the NBA has, is that a foul? And it's like a real shame because it, like, call it one way or call it the other, but just call it consistently. And they did, as Jared Dudley piped up on Twitter, loved this. Jared Dudley's out of the playoffs, which still in our lives, piped up on Twitter that they had been calling that pretty much consistently all season long, and then all of a sudden in this game less consistently.

My guess is that those calls will sort of go the Rockets way in game two, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll end up winning this game, because as you said, they had their opportunities. KD played out of his head, and then everybody else, like, less out of their head. Curry hit a shot at the end that was pretty good. Clay Thompson, who, you know, was questionable, was a game time decision to even go because he had an MRI.

on his ankle and he was hobbling around. They expected he was going to be limited in his movement. He played 41 minutes. And then, like, you know, the Rockets, as we said, did not shoot well. And yet we're still in this game. And I think, like, yeah, they could sit there and blame the reps if they really want to. But there were plenty of calls that went against the Warriors that I know Warriors fans were pissed off about.

So, like, really, the Rocket should be looking at themselves. I mean, you got PJ Tucker who did not score. You have Chris Paul, who was fine, Clint Capello, who was absolutely terrible. Basically it was a, and that bench was like non-existent. So it was basically Hardin and Gordon and a little bit of Paul and nothing else. Yeah, and that's a really rough recipe for them. And you can sort of see the sense of how Golden State was going to approach this from the very beginning with Steve Kerr saying, screw it, we're starting with a death lineup. We're starting with Draymond at Center and Igwadale and at the three because we take the rocket seriously.

We know we don't have time to mess around here. We're going to see if we can't play Clint Capella off the floor or minimize him as an, effective factor in this series very successfully done. I mean, two field goal attempts for Capella in 27 minutes today, you know, you're not getting those lobs. You're not getting those easy buckets at the rim because of the way the Warriors were able to square up on the pick and roll coverage with James Harden and sort of effectively take Capella off the board. And that's a major chess piece, especially because, you know, Mike Antony never likes to go particularly deep into his rotation, but there also just really aren't very many great options. I think a lot of us were surprised

that, you know, 13, 14 minutes of Nenai tonight. You haven't seen a whole lot of that. And he was fairly effective in those minutes. It's, you know, hit all three of his shots, a few steals throwing his body around. But, you know, this is going to be a small ball series. You know, eventually these series sort of all seem to go that way, especially out in the Western Conference. And so the Warriors already adjusted to it and said, we're going to force this. And now how small can the rockets go? Is it P.J. Tucker at center, it seems like it's going to have to be the adjustment.

But then Gerald Green wind up seeing a lot of time. How much more can you get out of someone like Daniel House? There's a lot of questions as far as who the X-factor players would be for Houston as they try to get back into it. And even so, even with that, though, if this is the Eric Gordon you're going to get, he was excellent in the first round defending Donovan Mitchell, basically took him out of the series. If he's going to give you that kind of defensive effort and also put in 20, 25 points a night, that's going to give the rockets a chance, but they're going to have to get more out of guys like specifically Paul. If Capella is going to be able to be on the floor, he's going to have to be

on the floor, he's got to produce because the Rockets just can't succeed at the level they need to if he's not going to be able to give him anything. Yeah, it's crazy. And this happens to everybody. everybody shortens their rotations in the playoffs and you look at benches and you go god you can't play this guy you can't play that guy but for the rockets in particular and this has been a problem all season long when you go like after their starters they've been pretty thin but they were exceptionally thin in this game like you said that much neney 14 minutes of nana is probably not what they wanted you know they had a throw shumperd out there because austin rivers wasn't available and when you when you think to yourself oh man the rockets missed austin rivers

that's such a problem for houston like i i'm I feel bad for rocket spans everywhere when you have to say that sentence and say it seriously. So I wonder like, you know, what possible adjustments Dan Tony can make because there aren't a lot of options off the bench. I mean, he just doesn't have a lot of people he can go to. Well, and it's true. You know, Austin Rivers is one of those players that sort of becomes a punching bag or a touch point for a lot of kinds of discussions because there's value in what he does, even just in creating shots, right? Especially this time of the year. You just, you need somebody who can create an isolation, create and pick and roll.

get a shot for himself or for a teammate by breaking somebody down on the other end. And it's really hard to do. And if you don't have multiple guys capable of doing that on the floor at all times, your offense can get really stagnant. Even Golden State's offense can get really stagnant. They've got four or five all stars on that team. They've got a lot of incredible players. But if Steve Kerr stagger his rotations in such a way that you're not going to have

multiple shooters, multiple creators, even that offense can bog down. So even someone like Austin Rivers, you know, you can scoff at his, the degree to which he thinks he's a star in this league or whatever, the impact that he thinks he has on the game. But being able to create really does matter. And you're right, a lot of the these sort of deep bench players or the after the starting five players for Houston are finishers or are, you know, catch and shoot guys as opposed to shot creators.

And so that puts a lot of even more onus on Paul, even more onus on Hardin, even more onus on Gordon to be able to create shots for themselves and for others. That's a really big burden to have to handle. And the responsibility is spread a little bit more evenly in Golden State because there are multiple guys who can do that, although obviously nobody's really doing it at the level that Kevin Durant is right now. Yeah, Kevin Durant was an absolute killer in this game, 35 points, really took over at the end of the game.

He's been on a heater pretty much the entire playoffs and carried them in that Clipper series when the Clippers started to get a little plucky with them. I think, to your point about Steve Carr's starting game one with the lineup of death, that says a lot about, I think, where the Warriors think they are right now in terms of how they're playing, how healthy they are or how healthy they aren't, the lack of a bench as well, for them to go every single starter, including a Godala, 34 minutes or more, three of their guys, Green, KD, and Clay played more than 40 minutes. That's a lot, and it's early, and I think it speaks to, like, the rockets could have stolen one here,

and the Warriors, for as much as we say, like, the rocket should be a little bit worried about, you know, where are they going to go for adjustments. I think the warriors look at it the opposite way and go, man, you know, we're going to throw everything we possibly could at them and they still almost beat us. Yeah, we played our Trump card already, right? Because there's not like, you know, Jordan Bell is not going to be the big secret adjustment. Although, I mean, you know, I put that on tape now and then watch come game three. He's going to have like 18 and 9 off the bench.

But this isn't the time of year where you can't screw around. And this is the matchup that Golden State can't afford to screw around. They already sort of burned their allotment of not focusing enough for the postseason intensity against the Clippers. and this is a team that you absolutely can't afford to do that against. So Houston comes away from this, ruining a missed opportunity. Houston probably comes away from this fairly salty with the league, and the warriors come away from this feeling like,

even on a night where the Splash Brothers combined to go, what, 10 to 25, and you don't get a whole lot out of the second unit, we're still able to get across the finish line because we have Kevin Durant and you don't. One of my old colleagues, Eric Freeman, used to say, the whole thing with Kevin Durant is like, it's just, this is the, in case of emergency, or in case of potential loss, break glass player.

Like even if there's any point where it looks like they might lose, he's the ultimate nullifier. He's the guy that completely changes it. That's what the answer was at the end of the game tonight. It's what the answer has been through this postseason. And, you know, that's something that Houston's going to have to figure out. Because if they're not going to be able to bother him,

get into his kitchen, alter his shots, limit his shots. You know, he can do this every night. Yeah, they keep breaking that glass. They've been breaking it, I think, more than they expected to this early in the postseason because the clippers forced them to. and now Houston is forcing them too. And this is like the most vulnerable we have seen seemingly the Warriors look in a while. And I'm here for it.

I've been waiting for somebody to take a real shot at the King. And I hope they don't miss. I hope the Rockets pull this out. I'm skeptical, but I'm hopeful. We've already seen a game. So this isn't quite a serious prediction. But before we move on to the other series,

who do you think wins Rockets and Warriors? I didn't have to put this on the record before it started. But I would say Warriors and Seven, I feel like the fact that the Warriors are a little bit weakened from last season, they haven't looked nearly themselves in this postseason. They, you know, losing DeMarcus cousins, I think, threw things out of whack for them and they're maybe not, not yet at their sort of top speed for what their second options would be. The fact that you're, you know, you're seeing like coasting games, Stefan Curry,

or like the numbers wind up looking great, but the impact in the moment doesn't always seem like it's that particularly strong. You haven't really seen everybody click on all cylinders yet. I think that's a bit of a worry. And then the fact that, you know, yeah, again, you have not hard on going nine for 28 and Paul being like okay and that they're still right there at the end of the game. I think the distance between these two teams is fairly narrow. So in a situation like that, two pretty evenly matched,

but elite teams go with the one with home court advantage. Yeah, they're still the champs. There's still the Warriors, despite the fact that the Clippers gave them a good run and that I think that the Rockets can, I just can't pick against them. I had Warriors in six before this happened. They won a game. I'll stick with that.

My other prediction, though, for the other game that happened on Sunday, Celtics at Bucks, didn't quite pan out the way I expected it to, Dan. My first note on this game that the Celtics won easily was, yikes, exclamation point. Mine was quiet start from Janus. And I think, I mean, the fact that that that continued through the quiet middle from Janus and the quiet end from Janus, I think those are all very, very bad things for Milwaukee. I cannot believe that the Celtics went out and handled them that easily at the box in the first game. I just did not see this happening, especially when Tatum didn't play particularly well.

They started Morris and Vine. Horford was really good. Kyrie was really good. Jalen Brown is really coming into his own. And Gordon Hayward has been much more efficient and effective late in the regular season and now into the playoffs. But I just didn't see the bucks coming out looking like that. I mean, Janice didn't get off to a great start. Middleton was pretty much the only guy who gave him anything to help out.

And then Lopez completely vanished. Eric Bledsoe completely vanished. And then once again, you get into the bench and you go, oh, no, what are you going to do here? Like, what's your worry level over the Bucks who all season long were the best team in the NBA and then the best team in the Eastern Conference and they were puffing out their chest? And it was, you know, we've got Janus and we surround them with shooters and we're going to be fine. and you've got to go through us, and then they get throttled at home.

Yeah, I mean, it's certainly concerning. You know, you work all that time to get 60 wins in home court, and then it goes out the window in 48 minutes. Speaking of minutes, I think that's one thing that I would look at if I were Mike Boodenholzer, again, with the caveat that it's a pretty decent bet that Coach Bud knows more about his team and about coaching in the NBA than I do. I think the fact that you wound up with, and some garbage time mattered here, but Giannis plays 34 minutes.

Middleton plays 34 minutes. They both only played 16 or 17 minutes in the first half. This was the rotation. They went, I think, nine deep before it got sort of into garbage time. This is the rotation that Coach Bud used, especially in the second half of the season after they picked up Miritich and after they picked up George Hill. But this is not the time to like make sure everybody gets 20 minutes

and you keep Yon as fresh and you keep Middleton fresh. This is the series where you play those guys 40 minutes. This is the series where the, you know, one of them is always on the floor. And there are very few minutes where none where neither one of them is on the floor. You saw Pat Connaton had a real tough night. He was getting roasted by Gordon Hayward when they were matched up in second unit play. Hayward was getting everywhere. He wanted to go in the pick and roll, being able to get to the rim, pick out floaters,

pick out passes and just really make things difficult for the Bucks defense. So, you know, a guy like that, a guy like Ersina Liyosovo who has, you know, limited utility, you know, he's helpful on the boards. But then if he's taking five threes and he's missing all of them and he's, you know, a liability in defensive coverages, how much is he giving you? This is a time where I think Milwaukee would look at it and say, our best bet here is going to be to tighten our rotation, lean harder on Janus for more minutes, lean harder on Middleton for more minutes. And if Lopez is going to have problems with covering Horford and the pick and pop, which is something that I know Jonathan Charks wrote about earlier this season.

I wrote about it earlier in this season in the context of the Sixers and Joelle M. Bede, the problem that Philly has guarding Al Horford when they go small. Those pick and pop jumpers are there all day and Horford's going to take him and he's going to make them. So if Lopez can't get out there to guard that and they're going to keep giving it up, they got to start thinking about changing their pick and roll cover. averages, maybe even changing who plays them. All that is to say, this one game introduced a ton of questions for Milwaukee. They have sort of a cakewalk going through here. And I'm really going to be fascinated to see what Putin holds it does to adjust to it. Because there's tools there.

We can go small more play on it to five. We can bring DJ Wilson, who's a more mobile defensive big off the bench. We can tighten the rotation, fewer bad players playing as many minutes, those sorts of things. But, you know, the Celtics put them to that test right away. And, you know, they drew first blood. Yeah, not having Brogden is a killer. You mentioned Conninton, he was terrible, you know, minus 21. Yeah, I mean, like Brogden, I get Brogden a lot of heat for being one of the worst

rookies of the year and stealing it from not one but two Philadelphia players, but he's a useful talent. It's true. I mean, it should have been Dario or MB, not to like re-rebeat a dead horse or whatever, but still, he's a good player. And certainly they could use him in the series. And like, they don't have a lot here that they can do. They had Conantin out there for 24 minutes.

As you said, he got roasted. He was a minus 21. And then, you know, Brooke Lopez has had a really good season and has shot a ton of threes. But I forever will count out Al Horford, despite the fact that our boy, KOC, keeps telling me not to. And then Al Horford goes out there and reminds everybody, yeah, you shouldn't count me out because I'm really good. And they don't have an answer for me right now, or at least they didn't in that first game. And then as you mentioned, the minutes.

The minutes here, like, but just going to have to rely on his killers. I mean, like, he only plays Janice. And again, it got away from them, so I understand, like, taking your foot off the gas pedal. But Janus has got to be in the 40s in terms of his minute load. Middleton, probably the same thing. You got to get something out of Eric Bloodsoe. Eric Bloodsoe was useless. Yeah, when Eric Bledsoe is, like, handily worse than George Hill,

than you've got a big problem. I mean, it's nice to have George Hill as a sort of a release valve backup point guard. But the first half of the game, especially, you know, Hill was just flat out better on the ball than Bledso was. And that's a problem. He's a big sort of swing player X factor for them, has been great all season. And it's like, you know, all of a sudden he goes back against, you know, sees those Celtics jerseys. And it's, you know, right back to last spring when he couldn't get right in that matchup with Terry Rozier,

who, by the way, after having like a roundly awful season has 11.9 rebounds and three assists in 20 minutes. And all of a sudden looks like he's back on the track to getting a big deal and restricted free agency. It's, it's wild to see how quickly the Celtics kind of put it back together. And I wrote during round one, like midway through that series against the Pacers. they started to look good. It seemed like the formula was matching up. You know, Kyreid does ridiculous things with the ball, scoring and playmaking. Horford Marshall's the defense. All the other long guys, like the long-armed athletic guys, just kind of dig down, help defense, plug up passing lanes, run the floor and hit open shots.

And maybe that's the recipe. But also maybe that's only the recipe that works against an Indiana team that can't score. Well, the bucks were the top five offense all season long with a potential MVP, and it worked against them. So if this is what we're going to see from the Celtics, the Bucks are going to have to adjust their game plan, their rotations, their mindset, everything to be able to match that because the Celtics are not screwing around and the bucks have to answer. Yeah, Kyrie was a killer, 26 points, 11 assists. Afterwards, you know, he was saying he can get a shot whenever he wants, which is totally true. He was handing out a bunch of assists facilitating the offense. I mean, he just looks so good. And like, we've seen at turns a really good and really bad, Kyrie, both on the court and off the court this season.

And this was the good Kyrie. And before the postseason began, he said, you know, like all this regular season record stuff doesn't matter. And I was like, well, it matters a little bit. Like, because they've got home quarter advantage and you don't. And they've played well all season and you haven't. And he, I guess, at least through one game, he was right and I was wrong that I guess it doesn't matter because now all of a sudden the Celtics have decided to be the good version of the Celtics. This is not how I anticipated it going. I had the bucks in six.

I am nervous. Luckily, I don't bet on sports because I'm terrible at it. But if I were the Bucks, and certainly on behalf of my prediction, I am quite nervous about that. Which way did you see the series going? Yeah, I mean, at the risk of sort of being basic and chalky, I had Bucks in seven because, again, I was like, I think that while the gap between these two teams during the regular season was vast, the Celtics are positioned to be the kind of, like, you know, Dremont Green has that saying about 82 game players versus 16 game players. And I think the Celtics, especially with Hayward trending up at the end of the season, they got some 16 game players on that team. Horford is really one of them, a sort of matchup problem for all sorts of opponents on both ends of the floor. And he can, his ability to basically

deal with Janus one-on-one enough and then allow everybody else to sort of sink in and plug the paint to the point where it looked like the Bucks had no kind of idea how to attack that. They wanted to get him in pick and roll, but then that was bringing multiple defenders to the ball. They wanted to get him in the middle of the floor, then making it easier almost for the Celtics to dig in and help because they weren't as worried about him making cross-court passes to shooters. And then every time he tried to just go with a head of steam right at Horford, Horford swallowed him up, Aaron Baines too. The Celtics are a team with a plan and they executed it incredibly well. I believe that Milwaukee has the goods to be able to respond and adjust and to get back into it and then eventually take a long series. But they're going to need a hell of a lot better effort than they gave on Sunday.

Yes, I would like them to have a better effort and beat the Boston Celtics. This is a public service announcement. So Milwaukee, if you could handle that, that would be wonderful. Another team that I would like to have a better effort last series for you. I didn't want to discuss this. Isaac is a taskmaster and put it in our outline and demanded that we talk about the 76ers piss poor effort against the Raptors. The Raptors is really excellent effort against the Sixers. Kwai Leonard was a killer.

They take game one. Man, they did not have any answer for Kauai in that game. Jimmy Butler, who is supposed to be their defensive stopper, was not. I don't know what they do there. That is a problem. Yeah, I mean, the reality of the situation is just that as good as Jimmy Butler is, and Jimmy Butler is fantastic. He is.

Not against Kauai. Yeah, Kauai Leonard is like 115% of Jimmy Butler, or Jimmy Butler is 85% of Kauai Leonard. However, you want to sort of break down the math on that. That math checks out. I checked it out. He's a little bit bigger. He's a little bit stronger. he's a little bit better and he can get his shot with relative ease against everybody.

The comfort he has getting to his spots anywhere on the floor, the way that he's sort of stepping into those three-point shots, just easy. And the way he's able to get into his mid-range because of the threat of that three-point shot, the way he's able to bulldoze his way through and get to the rim or the foul line, the fact that you're sort of seeing an increased defensive presence from him, too. He might not be exactly who he was before the injury when he was, you know, MVP World Breaker kind of guy. but if I didn't have the 2020 vision of my contact, and I still don't know that I would be able to tell much of the difference,

he's been fantastic. And then so if you can't slow him down, if you don't have a one-on-one matchup, if it can slow him down, and then you also don't have somebody who can even meaningfully bother Pascal Seaccombe. And I know we hit the ringer and many other outlets have sort of sung the praises of Pascal Seaccom all year. I mean, he scored 29 points on 12 to 15 shooting,

getting wherever he wanted to go on the floor against supposedly one of the biggest, baddest, most athletic, significantly put together starting fives in the sport. And so, I mean, the glass hat empty side for Toronto is that nobody else had a big game, you know, shooting and scoring. The glass hat full side is that they didn't need it. And that they were able to distribute the ball. Marcosal was tremendous defending on Joelle Embed. Kyle Lowry just kind of plugs the gaps, distributes the ball, does a little bit of everything. And, you know, the bench did just enough to be able to keep him at arm's length and then let Kauai and Siakum take him home.

So I don't know what the adjustment is for the Sixers outside of you need much more from Joelle M. Bede. You need much more from Tobias Harris. You need much more from Jimmy Butler. All of those guys have to, you know, if the starters don't win those minutes, then the Sixers are sunk. There's just no other way around it. Yeah, I'm with you in that I'm sort of torn on this. And that, you know, Kauai, when he's hitting shots like that, is just incredible. As a team, they had 51, almost 52% from the floor, which is just ridiculous. When he's scoring like that, he's one of the best players in the NBA at both ends of the floor. And then on top of that, you had Bass Casciakam who made 12 and 15, as you mentioned. And then you look at it and you go, all right, so two guys accounted for what?

74 of the Raptors 108 points. That is both depressing and then like oddly encouraging for the Sixers. If you could slow them down a little bit, who knows if you can get back into this. The problem, as you mentioned, is the adjustments. And this is something you and I talked about when I saw you in Brooklyn in the Nets series. and this is something I've discussed ad nauseum on He-check, is that I don't know what people expect Brown to do. Yes, you could put, say, Ben Simmons on Kauai Leonard and hope that that changes things. Maybe you shift Jimmy over to Seacum. But in terms of, like, after you get past those five guys,

the bench is just brutal. Like, you've got Jonah Bolden out there trying to squeeze some minutes out of him. They had to put Boban out there, and he was getting put in the mexer and, like, not nearly quick enough to step out on Gasol when Gasol was popping on the pick and roll. and then when he was sinking, he was slow on that because he was trying to cover both. It just was bad. That bench is brutal, and I don't know what they expect Brett to do there. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's funny in the last series, or we're talking about the Rockets Warrior series. We were talking about the value or the import of someone like Austin Rivers, who, you know, if you had to name the top six X factors of that series, he certainly wouldn't come up until way down the list. Mike Scott is one of those guys for Philly.

Mike Scott. Because he can credibly play a couple of. of positions. He can shoot it a little bit. He can play and pick and roll a little bit. He can defend as a big or a little bit more out in space if you need him to. He gives Brett Brown more options. And he might not be an elite option off the bench, but he gives them some more minutes and some more flexibility to the point where you're not having to say, all right, I guess we're going to try to get 15 minutes out of Jonah Bolden. I guess we're going to try to get 12, 15 minutes out of Furcon Korkma's tonight, you know, these sorts of things where you're like- Like, Furcon Korkmas was the first guy off the bench.

And that's when I went, oh, no. And before the postseason began, we had Dan Pfeiffer. I have a lot of very smart Dan's in my life. Dan Diffin, Dan Pfeiffer. It's really wonderful. I highly recommend anybody out there going out and getting their own smart Dan. But Dan Pfeiffer from Pod Save America was on, noted Sixers fan. And he had said to me that he thought that Mike Scott was going to be a key in the playoffs

because he can hit a three-pointer and play defense. I sort of laughed it off, thinking to myself, well, if that's the case, they're screwed. And now I'm going back going, Dan, Mia Coppa. Like, you were right, not having him out there when you have to, to pull Furkan Korkmas off the bench to be one of your guys to like play minutes? Like you're in massive trouble when that happens. Yeah. I mean, and it goes back to, we can talk about this for a while.

It goes far back. It goes back a couple of years in terms of decision making and assets not maximized and trades made and not made and picks that turned into other things and yada, yada, but the sum total of it is you have a million dollar starting lineup and to some degree like a 10 cent bench. And like when Scott is healthy, when. James Ennis is fully healthy. There's more options.

There's more bodies there. I would have loved to see what the Sixers bench would look like if you had a full season as Eier Smith, but that's not going to happen. And obviously, you know, you're not going to have a guy who barely played any minutes at all for the big club getting significant postseason minutes. It's just tough to see what the second unit options are for Brown. But you're not going to get 45 minutes from all five of your starters without burning them out. And you might not even get 35 from Invade, given how, you know, his health has been with his knee,

obviously you've written at length about that and we've talked about that quite a bit. So what you get from him, that 30, that 32, whatever it is, he has to win them and he has to win them in dominant fashion and dramatically. And that's where, you know, that midseason deal that Toronto made bringing in Mark Gassall is a guy who could stand him up in the post, make him chase a little bit out on the perimeter and at least make him earn it or play him to a standstill is a gigantic, gigantic move in this series. because if you don't have to worry about Embed going for 35 or 40, everything else gets a little bit harder for Philly. And then that means like if you get one of your big guys putting up a crooked number, things get lopsided fast. Yeah.

Yeah. And they had, I mean, they're going to need more from JJ. He was cold early. Then he hit a hot streak. Then he was cold again. I mean,

other things that they could do. KOC mentioned this, uh, both in Slack and then on Twitter that, you know, maybe they use Simmons more as the screen and the role man in a pick and roll situation. But you were there in Brooklyn with me when, when we asked Brett about that and he's like, yeah, in theory, that makes sense.

The problem is there's a domino effect there where all of a sudden, like, spacing-wise, where are you putting the other players on the floor, especially at times when in the last series they had to put Bob on out there, where all of a sudden things get like kind of clogged when that happens. So I just think, like, adjustment-wise, they're sort of limited here. And it might just be exactly what you said, that those five guys that are supposed to be their zillion dollar five best starters in the NBA south or east of the Golden State War, Warriors are going to have to carry them because if not, what are we even talking about here? Like, are we really talking about like maxing out Tobias and Jimmy for this for a second round

out? All of a sudden, after one game, I'm like, it's it's it. It's over. Blow it up. Blow it up and you bring it back to KOC, which is very good. I want to say very quickly with KOC. I feel like he's going to wind up being like the guy that you see in the stands with the John 316 sign and the rainbow wig, but it's going to say like you Simmons as the screener, shoot with the appropriate hand, you coward. There's a lot of Ben Simmons's way to takes from KOC these days. Yeah, it's not a particularly advanced thought or

a sexy X's and O's sort of thought process. But yeah, their starters have to be better. They have to be way better. And if they're not, then this might, the series is going to be pretty short because Toronto is, they've come to a point where they're not going to beat themselves. They're going to be a low turnover team.

They're going to get as many shots as they can. They're going to get the most out of their possessions. And they've got a lot of guys that can finish them. So if the Sixers don't crank it up with that starting lineup, then this thing could be over quick. Yeah. Do better Sixers is a good point. place to end it. The Raptors, congratulations to them. As I've said, I've loved their depth all

season long. I've loved the way that they've played together all season long. They came out and they look like the better team by a lot and the sisters are going to have to do better. I had the Raptors in six in this series, you know? That sounds right to me. I didn't actually make a pick, but that sounds right to me. So we'll go with that. Let's just call it six. We'll call it six. We'll see how it goes. I hope I'm wrong. He's Dan Devine. You can read him on the ringer.com. He's going to be on heat check a lot during the playoffs because he's good. Like I said, I like, having a smart Dan in my life and he's on the podcast. Gans, it is always a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me in your home. All right, that was Dan Devine. He's excellent. Make sure to read all

of his stuff on Theringer.com before we go to Shea Serrano. Let's take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. Today's episode of Heech is brought to you by Simply Safe alarm, the willies, the hebie-jeebies, panic. There are dozens of words for fear, but just one for exceptional home security, and that's Simply Safe. This is home security that knows it feels good to fear less. Award-winning 24-7 protection that protects your home through it all, blizzards, blackouts, and burglars. SimplySafe has won awards from all the tech experts that count. The Verge says it's the best home security. It's won Reader's choice from PC Magazine. It's the two-time winner of CNET editor's choice and it's wirecutter's top pick. Better yet, SimpliSafe has no contract, no hidden

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Joining me on the line right now, a staff writer, the author of many books, the host of the new John Wick podcast with a pencil. This guy went from no podcast to two podcasts. It's Shea Serrano. What up, boy? Before we get into your spurs,

with a pencil, just an inspired idea. Yeah, they were like, hey, you have to do another podcast again and we're going to fire. you. And I was like, oh, well, I like John Wick. Let me just watch that movie again. And here we are. Now there's a new thing. The number one podcast on iTunes. Less inspiring, less exciting, your San Antonio Spurs. Before the game seven, you wrote a quick and easy transition.

They killed themselves with a pencil. Before the game seven, you wrote a story saying that they had a good season either way. Do you still feel that way after watching? After watching, them not foul over the last 30 seconds. For people who miss this, with 30 seconds left, about 30 seconds left, it's like 28 seconds left. Jokic had the ball. Spurs are down for. Everybody knows they got a foul. And instead, the clock just exhausted itself. Time ran out. The spurs are done with their season. It's one of the most inexplicable things I've seen. How do you feel after that? I was a little bit confused. But I think this is just a situation of, I think maybe they thought they were down three is my only, I think.

think like Lamarcus in his head because he was the one who was probably going to go out there and foul Yolkish. I think in his head he thought, okay, we're down three. We just need to stop. Don't foul. And it was so loud. Like, I was watching it on a computer and it was still loud in Denver. They were unbelievable that crowd was.

So I wasn't too worried about it. I mean, you're on the road. You're down 17 points. They have like one of the worst offensive first halves in the history of sport. And then they still just, every time that they should. have given up, they just fucking kept coming. That was the point of the article that was writing. That's what they've done all season.

They're not that great of a basketball team at the moment, but they have that little extra bit that lets them, like, do better than they should. I think that's a part that was, like, tricky for everybody because you're so used to saying of the Spurs are in the playoffs and assuming that they're the better team.

In this scenario, they were the seventh seed. Like, they're clearly, very clearly, the underdogs are going up against the second seed nuggets on the road. Like, you know, I mean, it's just like, it was a whole bunch of weird shit in your head watching that series, but I feel good about the season. Yeah, I think you're right about the last game being sort of a metaphor for the Spurs season writ large, because at the beginning of the year, as you have reminded me,

and as Dan Devine has reminded me quite a few times, I wrote a piece saying, like, this is it, the Spurs, there's no cavalry coming for them. That was, like, in very early December, and then all of a sudden they started playing like the Spurs again and had a really good season, and I think surprisingly so. But for it to end that way was just maddening. I mean, like, I get what you're saying about it being, loud in there, but despite the amount of noise, little Marcus Aldridge has to know the situation.

And in fact, afterwards, this is the craziest part to me. Afterwards, he was asked about it, and he goes, yeah, I knew the situation. I couldn't hear pop, but I knew the situation, and I just didn't foul anyway. And I'm like, what? I don't, that's some J.R. Smith's shit. Like, you're a professional basketball player. You're saying you knew the situation and didn't foul anyway. And then on top of that, Patty Mills had multiple opportunities to foul, as did, you know,

the other three dudes on the court. and for a team that's that well coached and has been that good under Popovich for that long to just have like brain lapse there like I get the whole season was mostly gravy but that's such a frustrating way for it to go because they didn't

play well and they still could have stolen not just that game but that series yeah I disagree with you on all parts you're giving them a pass yeah it's fine we weren't supposed to we weren't even supposed to get two game seven. You know what? When we lost the series, I think that's the exact one we lost

the series. It was game two. We were up 19 in Denver. If we win game two and we go back to San Antonio up 2-0, that shit is a wrap. Denver folds. There's no question in my mind about it. When they came back and won that game, I was sitting

there, I was actually, I was watching the game with Sean Finney and Chris Ryan and River Brown. And when that happened, I was like, well, fuck and we just lost the series. That's what that was. Because I've seen this before. And when Denver came back at one and all of a sudden they realized, hey, we can basically score whenever we want. I mean, there's nothing

you could do with it. And then Yokic was fucking I went to game 6 and San Antonio when he had 43 and 12, and it was just like one of the most unbelievable things he'd ever watch because he looked like at all. They're a fun team, they're a good team, it's like, it'd been different if we lost that way to like the Warriors or the Rockets

or somebody. I don't mind listening to the Nuggets. They're fun. It's their first playoff win in like a decade or some crazy shit like that. It was fine. I'm not too worried about it. I can't place any blame on the market because for the past two years, he has been like an iron statue for San Antonio playing basketball. He's been everything that we needed him to beat. If a guy screws up after doing all that stuff, you just got to be like, well, you know what? You earn that one. You're fine. You're in such a good and forgiving mood today.

I really like this. I would be less happy about the circumstance, but I think that that's probably a healthy way to look at it, especially because, again, I don't think that anybody expected the Spurs to get, you know, maybe that far in the series. They definitely extended it. It was playing with house money considering like that it was sort of a reset year for them. But then also as the spurs, I kind of expect them to like overcome in those situations, especially because Denver was vulnerable. But how do you feel about them, you know, moving into the off season and then next year? And do you think pop will and should come back? Yeah, Pop will do one more season. I believe he was doing the USA basketball in 2020.

So in my head, it wouldn't make any sense for him to leave before them. So I think we have at least one more year. We've got Dejante back, who was going to be like one of our main pieces. We've got him. All of a sudden, we have Derek White. Derek White. How to play, how to win in the playoffs, how to be like that guy. We won one.

He won a playoff game by himself, basically. 36 points, career high in that game. Yeah. When you do something like that, and it clicks in your head, you're like, okay, I belong here. I'm going to be okay. Like, we have Dejante, we have Derek White. We still have Lama Marcus and DeMar. They play great.

Rudy Gay was frigging the last two games of the series. He was unbelievable. He was like everything that you needed him to be. He'll probably stick around. I believe he was a free agent. We're going to hope to resign him. I feel good about next season. I mean, I feel good in the sense, like, similar to how I feel now.

We're going to get into the playoffs and make a little bit of noise and cause him trouble for somebody else. We won't be a championship contender, but we'll be a second round contender, which is a lot of fun, you know? I'll take it. How do you feel about the way that pop, you know,

like he always, there's two different pops, right? There's the engaging, philosophical, magnanimous pop where, like, you could ask him something and he's super thoughtful on it. And then there's the irritated

post game after game seven pop where he doesn't want to answer any questions about, certainly not whether or not he's coming back, but then in specific, they asked him about what happened at the end when he was trying to get everybody to foul,

in game seven, and he gave like this quick, truncated 10-word answer, and that was it. And like, I get that that's part of his schick, but as like a Spurs fan who's also a journalist, where do you fall on that? Because I could see you being defending him, and then on the other hand being like, well, I would like him to answer a question. No, I would defend Popovus for the rest of my mind. John, you're talking about, John, you're talking about legitimately the greatest basketball coach of all time. In the history of the world, nobody has been a better basketball coach than Greg Pobovich. Nobody has been able to move with the transition of the NBA over two decades.

Like we're talking about several different styles of basketball that he was able to figure out and then win a title in. In three different decades, he did that. 99 all through the 2000s, 2014, he figured all of that out. The greatest basketball mind we've ever had on the planet. I don't care if he doesn't answer questions. When you are that level, you don't have to answer questions. You could answer whatever question you want. If you ask him a question about like the president, that piece of shit, he's going to give

you a long, beautiful answer just sort of picking the legs off of them. If you ask him, like, why didn't you run a pick and roll right? You have no idea how much more basketball he knows than you. So part of what you said is right, and the rest of it is entirely wrong. The part that's right is this stuff. When you ask him about politics and stuff, he's super thoughtful and it's great. And that's the part of pop that I love, the one that's engaging. the part that I disagree with is this this notion that he doesn't have to answer questions.

Does he know more basketball than everybody? Of course, absolutely. There's no doubt about that. But I think if you're going to ask him a question after game seven when his team doesn't foul about why they didn't foul and why there was a miscommunication. And also that has happened before to his teams in the past. I think that's entirely fair. And similarly, like to ask him when his contract is up, whether or not he's thinking about

coming back and from him to blow it off, I think that's also fair. Like he could say, look, I don't know right now or I haven't. considered it or, you know, I'm still fresh off this game or whatever. But to be sort of crumudgeonly about that is difficult for me to reconcile and to give him a pass for, especially because, and this is a sincere question, and I want you to help me figure this out. Why is it that Russ gets crushed for doing stuff like that, but Pop gets a pass? Like, you have Steve Kerr, who recently said that when Russell Westbrook was blowing off the media and Barry Trammle and O.K. See that his approach was dangerous and unprofessional. But nobody says that shit about Pop.

And like, I don't know, I feel like, I just want them both, both Pop and Russ to talk to us and by extension, the fans, people who like the NBA, because they are so smart and because they are so thoughtful. And I just want them to give a little bit more of that. And I don't think that's too much to ask. In fact, I think it's part of the job description. It probably is part of the job description, but sometimes you don't do all of this stuff in your job description. It's just one of those things. You know what I'm saying? Everybody has a bad day.

As far as, like, why does Pop have more leeway than Russ? I'm sure a sizable part of that is like Russell Westbrook is a black man, Greg Popovich is a white man, like, that's got to play into it. One of them's a player, one of them to coach. There are several aspects here. I think I am very much in the camp of like if a person doesn't want to talk at a thing, then don't talk at the thing. I love when Russ does it.

It doesn't bother me at all. That's easy for me to say because he's never done it to me. Greg Popovich has never done it to me. I'm just like sort of watching the fray from the background. I'm watching the battle from up on the hill laughing at everything. You know, for the record, so we all know. I like when they do it. I think if you don't want to talk to somebody, then you shouldn't have to talk to somebody.

So there you go. I've seen it up close. I've been part of it. I get why sometimes people don't want to ask questions and pop gets away with not getting anything asked to him at all because people are kind of cowed by him. And it's unfortunate because, like I said, there are times when you get him in a moment and he starts giving you these answers

and you're like, holy shit, this is great. Why don't you do this all the time? It's unfortunate. Before you go, because you have many things to do, we should spin this forward a little bit. Your spurs are not in the second round, sad face.

The nuggets, however, are. I had said previously that I thought, like, depending on matchup, that it could be difficult for the nuggets because I didn't know what to make of them all season. They're at the top of the Western Conference standings more or less all year long,

but I thought that they were vulnerable because after Yokic, like, I wanted to see who was going to step up, so far, that's kind of been Jamal Murray. There's a couple of hiccups there. He was largely responsible for surrendering that 36-point game to Derek White and got crushed by Malone for it. But he's been pretty good in the series.

I'm really excited about them against the Blazers, though. Like, I'm not sure which way I would go on that. But I am excited to see them play because all of a sudden one of these teams is in the conference finals. Yeah, that was like the beautiful thing of the way that the bracket ended up breaking out. At the end of the season, you're like, oh, shit. Golden State and Houston have to play each other in the second round. So now we don't know who is going to be in the conference finals against one of those two teams.

There's no way for me to tell you if Denver is going to be Portland or if Portland is going to be dinner, I have no idea what's going to happen in that series because both of those teams have at different points played in ways where you're like, wow, nobody is going to beat Damien Lillard right now. And then, oh, wow, the trouble is why are they even in the play? Like, it's the same thing with the Nuggets. you have those moments where they just make everything and they're fantastic and unstoppable and then other moments really like, I don't know, I don't know what's going to happen here. So it's going to be fun.

This is like the best possible scenario. And all four of the like semi-final matchups, it's fucking beautiful. Yeah, I'm excited about this. It's definitely an NBA Twitter hipster series when you've got Denver versus Portland and one of them will advance. I'm going to go with the Blazers though because Willard's on such a hot streak right now. he's been an absolute killer. I feel like last year really woke up the entire Blazers organization.

And for them to be, by the way, for them to get past OKC, the way that they did, for Dane to put them on their backs is incredible. But especially with them not having NERC available and Ennis Cantor having to step forward and to take over those minutes is exciting. So I think I'm going to go Blazers in six, also because I want nice things for friend of the heat check Ian Carmel. So I'm going to take the Blazers. I'm going to go.

Yeah, I'm going to go with. the Nuggets because that has not invited me on his podcast, so I'm going to against this team. You've got a zillion podcast now, but I do like that you're holding it against him. We'll have a little bit, and we'll have you back after the series on

Heat Check to discuss who was right and who was wrong. Sad face for your spurs. I wish it had gone a different way, but on the whole good season. Yeah, great season. Love the Spurs. Go, Spurs, go. Go, Spurs, go. Make sure you read Shea Serrano on the ringer.com, and make sure you listen to the new John Wick podcast with a Pencil. It is very, very good. Shea, thanks for doing this. All right, boy.

All right, that was Shea Serrano. We thank him. We thank Dan Devine. I want to thank Isaac Lee, per usual. I want to thank you guys. Please rate and review us if you don't mind on Apple Podcasts. And please read all of our content on the Rigger.com. And don't forget the playoffs are upon us. We're in the middle of it. We're in the thick of it. We got a lot of NBA shows for you on the Ringer podcasting network. Check out mismatch on Tuesday, corner three on Wednesday, group chat on Thursdays. Isaac and I will be back next Sunday night slash Monday morning with Heat Check. Thanks for listening, everybody. Bye.