The Ringer NBA Show - How to Plan for Having Multiple First-Round Draft Picks | The Corner 3

Episode Date: June 6, 2019

We review Steph Curry’s hero ball Game 3 of the NBA Finals—an interesting reversal of some past Golden State games against LeBron (1:32). Then, we pivot to talking about the teams that have multiple first-round picks in the upcoming NBA draft, and what the best plan of action is to capitalize on those picks (16:53). Hosts: Danny Chau and Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Drinker responsibly is two. Hey, everyone, it's producer Bobby here. Just wanted to give you all a quick heads up that we recorded this show this morning before the Tori and Prince trade was announced by Wojj on Twitter. And there is a decent amount of Tori and Prince talk. on this podcast. So just please factor in the fact that we didn't know that Atlanta is sending Torian Prince in a 2021st second rounder

to Brooklyn for Alan Krab and the number 17 pick in this year's draft. So take all that with a grain of salt and I hope you enjoy the rest of the pod. Hello, welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is a long two edition of the Corner 3. My name is Danny Schau.

I am an associate editor at the Ringer.com and joining me from Dallas is staff writer Jonathan Charks. How goes it? There's usually one of us missing. We have like a 10% ratio the last few weeks, but we'll make it work. Yeah, KOC unfortunately cannot be joining us on this pod today, but we will soldier on. As we've been doing all playoffs long, the corner three will be diving into the draft later on in the show.

This time talking about the teams with multiple first round picks and what they should do with them. But first, I think we have something we need to address. The Raptors are two and one in the NBA final. This is amazing. Lean into it, Danny. This is amazing. The Raptors beat the Warriors 123-109 in Game 3 on Wednesday. Game 4 is right around the corner.

Yeah, it was a really, really incredible performance by the Raptors who basically weathered every storm. You know, in any other season, the Raptors probably would have lost this game, would have lost it on some sort of demoralizing run by the Warriors. But at every single turn, the Raptors had an answer. they put up incredible numbers they were shooting as a team 52% from the field

44% from 3 and 95% from the free throw line it's really hard to beat a team like that especially in the finals especially against the team that's really really undermanned at this point what's been your biggest takeaway charks

from the series so far I was gonna say like that golden's taking they played last night there wasn't much happening out there that was Steph in like a G league team almost yeah I feel like had that game pretty much won from the jump, it was kind of disappointing.

I think for me, the biggest takeaway of these finals, I just wonder, like, are Golden States four finals catching up to them in terms of their bodies? Right. That's a lot of wear and tear. That's a lot of miles on your body. I just kind of wonder if his team is broken down if they just don't have enough juice. Like, they can't win with that roster, I don't think, against Toronto.

Yeah, over the past two years, you know, Steve Kerr has mentioned it. He's specifically, you know, him as a player and as a coach, he knows what fatigue can really due to a team. And look, this is a team that is in its fifth straight finals, which hasn't happened since, what, the 60s. The 60s, yeah. The finals was like two rounds back then. It was like 18. Right. So this is truly like unprecedented territory in terms of how many minutes they're logging. They're basically playing, you know, on average over the past five seasons, 89, 90 game seasons. This is just not sustainable for most professional athletes. even at the highest caliber.

And so, yeah, I mean, it's fair to assume that something's catching up to them. I mean, Clay hasn't missed the game until now. I was thinking about it, like, you look at Miami's roster after those four finals, Wade and Bosch were never the same. You look at Cleveland's roster for those four finals. I mean, I guess Kyrie only played three, but Kyrie's been heard a lot. Kevin Love's been heard a lot. I wonder, and like, you look at like the Bulls, I wonder if those two reset years,

you look back at it, like having those two years of Jordan didn't play, probably did them. It's probably good for them. It's a great point. Yeah, I wonder because, I mean, yeah, Clay has never missed, you know, he's played 96% of his regular season games. He hadn't missed a single playoff game. I mean, it was definitely he got hip-checked and he landed awkwardly because he had to kind of account for how he was going to fall. But, you know, these things mount, and we don't know when Katie's coming back.

I think, you know, there are murmurs that, you know, he might not come. back, there are murmurs that he will. It's really hard to tell where this Warriors team is really going from here. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned Clay. I think you like with KD, him being out in the series, it has shown his value. And then Clay's

never been out before. You see how important he is to that team. Right. Just in terms of everything he brings on both ends of the floor, his shooting ability, his defense, second source of offense. He guards the guy, Steph normally guards on defense. I mean, and then Clay had been guarding Hawaii for stretches earlier in the series. Right. They're just

There's not anyone. I mean, they had no backup for Clay Thompson. They played Sean Livingston big minutes. That was tough. That was really rough. And it was strange decision, I thought,

because at this point, Sean Livingston's basically a power forward. You know, he's basically shooting... I mean, he's basically a bench player at this point. Yeah. Like,

he has range out to 15 feet. He's not going to be, you know, creating much on the ball. And he's just kind of there. Like, I don't, he's definitely not at the point

where he's an igued, a type presence where, oh, he can kind of turn it on, you know? Definitely not. There's nothing there for him to really do, especially with this starting lineup that needs spacing so much to allow for Steph to do what he does. Yeah, I guess the other option is Quinn Cook, though, or Alfonso McKinney. There's just, there's not much.

They need Clay. I think he's coming back for game four. I mean, they really couldn't afford to have him out. Right. Yeah, and he was practically begging to play game three. They wouldn't allow him. but I wonder if, you know, if he's not 80%, that's another guy that the Raptors can probably kind of target.

And that was something that they were doing a lot in game four. Early and often, they went at to Marcus Cousins, got him frustrated, got him in early foul trouble, you know, put him out in the perimeter, put him in the post. Marcus Aul was basically like, you know, roasting him. And, you know, the warriors were such a minus when both him and Livingston were on the floor. They, both of them were basically unplayable in the game.

Yeah, it's tough for cousins. So this is his fourth playoff game in his career, fifth? No. No, right? Yeah, this is his third, right? And he's just like, no, because he played game one against the Clippers, got hurt. So he's basically making his playoff debut while coming back off a torn quadri— Wait, what did he?

It was like sprained his quadrishap or something? Yeah, I think he tore his quad. Yeah. And then he's playing in the NBA finals. That is a tough. Right. I mean, they got to have more from him to going forward to have a chance.

I think because even if Clay comes back, then if he's more of a spot-up shooter, you'd need a second source of offense besides Steph. And we saw that. I mean, Steph had like 50 points or something, and it didn't seem like it even mattered because no one else could score or shoot. Yeah, I mean, the running joke in our NBA slack

was, oh, we were basically counting the number of points that Steph was on track to score by the end of the fourth quarter. Like, we were doing this like midway through the first and it didn't matter because the Raptors were on pace to score like 160. It's just like there's only so much one player can do. I think what you have to do at that point is control tempo a little bit, right? It's like if you go back to the 2015 finals, which is like now like the template for like the one-man show thing.

Right. If you're going to have one guy, you've got to keep it close to like to steal the game in the fourth quarter. And that's why I think Cudson is kind of important because you can throw it theoretically. Like all on theory, you throw it inside to him, you let him. play inside out, slows the game down. Because you really, until Klan Kevin Durant come back, you're not going to win many games in the 110s and the 120s against Toronto with this roster.

It's got to be more of like a 95, 105 point game probably. Yeah, it's just strange to make that comparison. And I did it as well in my column yesterday after the game. She's great, by the way. Read Danny's post-game columns. He's been killing it. It's just like, you know, you can't really play caveman ball with Steph when his entire game is predicated on beauty.

Like when he is a guy who's moving around, getting everyone else involved, he doesn't have the body. He doesn't have the build to really do what LeBron did and kind of muck up the game himself. He really tried at the end when he was getting all those steals and diving for loose balls. But like, you know, there's only a certain way he can really affect the game. And it's definitely not by, you know, barreling his way into the lane and trying to scrap for free throws. Well, that's where Cousins becomes so important. Yeah. I mean, he had like a pretty good game two, and it's a terrible game three, and he's got to meet somewhere in the middle.

Right. I think for sure you'll see Toronto attack him again early, get him out of his game. I think in game two, they really weren't prepared for what he would do. But again, they're going to attack Cousins. We're going to frustrate him. And it really seemed like whenever he couldn't score on Gassal, he just looked at the rest. Like, oh, I got fouled. And it was like he was surprised he couldn't score because he's so limited physically right now.

but instead of looking at the rest, he really can't move like that. He really has to play a more kind of deliberate, slow game given where he is physically. Yeah, and I thought Nick Nurse had a really good game plan in terms of that,

like really, you know, attack cousins early on. And when, you know, they brought on Bogut in the second quarter, he really kind of changed the game defensively for a bit. But almost immediately,

Nick Nurse was like, okay, well, look, we have to win this game, and so I'm going to make my adjustment right now. He started Fred Van, Van, in the third quarter. They started attacking Bogot

in the pick and rolls, bringing the screens up high, getting them outside of the paint. Yeah, see, I thought folks that he was playing well, but to me he was kind of a liability in that game. Yeah.

Like, he looked pretty exposed to me by the end of that one. Oh, yeah. And just having Fred Van Vleet out there, you know, allowed for Kyle Lowry to basically be free. He basically didn't have to guard anyone. They put Fred Van Vleet on Curry.

I mean, pretty much if you're not guarding Curry, you're not guarding anyone. Exactly. I was actually worried that the mid-game lineup change, starting lineup change might have affected Danny Green, who was having a really good game, like, oh, and then

suddenly you're demoted, you're going to the bench. But no, that didn't happen. Danny Green had a phenomenal Danny Green finals game. Playoff legend, finals hero. Did you see that Stadley dropped in slack about his three-point percentage? finals?

Yeah. It's crazy. There are, so there are, there is only one player in NBA finals history who has ever shot 50% from three in,

like, in his finals, like career and is Danny Green? Well, no, it's over 53s. Oh, over 53s? Okay. And over 53s,

he's, there's 35 guys to do it. He's the only one to be over 50% on three, which is obviously completely insane. That was from that Danny, that Danny Green, Gary Neal series,

right? Yeah. Or those two, they had like three monster games. Yeah, I just think Nick Nurse is kind of, he's kind of nailing his test right here. Like, I think the team has a full belief in him and it's really paying off. I mean, you're seeing why they made them move last year, why they got, why they moved off Dwayne Casey. Like, the ability, the value of a coach you can quickly identify matchups and be flexible is just so important this stage of the playoffs. You've got to always be on your toes.

I mean like, yeah, like, Kerr going with Livingston, like that probably gave them the game away before it even started. He just blew a game basically by doing that. And now I'm sure he won't start in game four. Clay will be back, or either way they probably won't start,

but it's just those little adjustments over the course of the series. If you can get it earlier, it can save you a whole game. It's so hard for us to say, like, what the Warriors can do to get back in the series because really it's just, you know,

get your guys back. if your guys are there, you have more than a fighting chance. You probably have the series. I mean, to me, it's cousins. I think he suddenly becomes the key for them. He's such like a theoretically valuable player. Because not only can he be a low-post score,

he can also be like your second best three-point shooter, and it can be a playmaker. Right. I think, because I think you've got to get more shooters around Iguodala and Dremont, right? They're at their best and they can pass the ball to somebody else. So if it's not, and the raptors aren't going to leave stuff. open off the ball. So that means you've got to have a second guy who can score, and that's

Draylon and Iguodala passing the Cousins. To me, like, he goes, I'm right with this for Friday, but to me he goes from like a luxury to necessity going forward. Yeah. Okay, so assuming cousins kind of rebounds to his game two form. I mean, that's a big assumption. I hope he can. And they're still without KD. What do the Raptors have to counter that? Well, I mean, I've been saying for a while, I want to see, obviously, I got to see Seaccom with the five. I feel like that's the one thing they haven't shown yet. Really all playoffs. Yeah, there was that stat.

He's played, what, three minutes without either Gasol or Ibaka in the playoffs this season so far? Yeah, and I mean, I think, too, if you're playing him at the five, theoretically, then you're being so much faster. And you really keep Golden State in the open court. And I think you spread him out and you just attack all they're older. I mean, if you play him in the five against Andrew Boggart, that's a bucket every single time.

Right, right. then you're getting an easy 25 points from Siakum. And I think if you get that plus the points from Kauai, that should be enough. I mean, Danny, your Raptors are two ones away from an NBA championship. It's really unbelievable. When did they become your Raptors, by the way? How long has this been going on?

I mean, how far do we want to go back? I feel like I feel like I have a spiritual connection with the team ever since I bought my first NBA poster, which was a insanity poster. back in 1999. How old were you at that point? I was eight. I love it.

So I've always felt like Toronto was a cool place, even though I'd never been there. I had no ties with it, but I was just like, Vince Carter made this place cool for me. And ever since, I've always had like a soft spot. Yeah, you and Drake, the two Raptor super fans of the playoffs.

One last extremely corner three question for you. Do you think we see OG in this series? It's tough right now. You look at cousins. You bring a guy back in the finals, especially a guy who's not very experienced. It's really, you know I'd love to see it. Maybe, but I feel like that's the only thing that's going to go wrong for them.

For now, that probably go with their veterans. Yeah, it definitely feels like a brick in the case of emergency thing. But that would only, I feel like the only feasible way in which OG gets like, not only just playing time, but like substantial playing time would be if, Katie comes back and suddenly the series just turns on its head. Yeah, I mean, we're talking about OG now. We're deep into Corner 3 meta-conversations. Yeah, all right.

I got that out of my system. But before we get into draft talk, we'll take a quick break. Players and fans prepare all year for the finals. They need to be ready for anything. With the State Farm majors on your team, you can be ready for anything, too. They can help you prepare for whatever life throws your way. I mean, you'll get the finals. Do get Steph Curry.

He's always prepared. all of a sudden he went from playing with Clay and KD to neither one of them. You got like 50 points. So really, set up high-sharing those state farm ads, not Chris Ball, for being honest. So talk to a state formation today about combining your home and auto insurance and get a teammate who can help them prepare for the unexpected. State Farm, here to help life go right. All right.

So now it's time for draft talk. I think we're going to dive into four teams that have multiple first round picks in the first round and kind of gauge where they are in terms of their team building process and what they should be doing with these picks. First up is the Atlanta Hawks who have the number eight and number 10 picks in the lottery, and they also have the 35th, 41st, and 44th pick. So a lot going on here. What do you think their plan is?

This is a weird draft to have so many picks because it feels like the talent level after the top, you know, 10 guys is pretty even. Right. So like 35, 41, 44 could be good players. there are guys like Malcolm Brogden there. There could be a really good player there, but I think they can't obviously keep all five picks, right? Yeah.

They'll have to move some around, either trade them. And I think a lot of these teams have some tough decisions to make in terms of not bring too many young guys in at the same time. And kind of, I feel like a young player, it's like a used car. You know, you buy it off the lot and then you drive it off. Loses half its value. He's not playing a lot. So if you draft a guy who can't get a lot of minutes early,

then you pretty much burned an asset. Right. So at 8 and 10, we're probably looking at two prospects who the Hawks would like to kind of fit into their already pre-existing template. I think a lot of mock drafts have a 3-D wing like a Cam Reddish going to them at number 8. And with the number 10 pick, I think it's pretty sensible for them to draft a rim-protecting big man who can kind of cover up for John Collins. What are you seeing there? Yeah, it seems like with the players in this range, it's all about building around your pre-existing core. So obviously, Trey Young, that's your centerpiece. He was incredible last year.

So I can probably runoff rookie the year, I'd assume. Absolutely. And then your guy, Kevin Herder, who is incredible. He had like, I would say he's probably the most impressive rookie season in terms of where he was drafted in terms of his production. Yeah, I think one thing with him is just he definitely surprised in, in, how quickly he was able to acclimate to the NBA, to basically just spacing for others in the NBA game. I think he's kind of taken up that kind of clay, JJ Reddick mantle where, look, if you can shoot from anywhere on the court in many different ways, off movement, you know, on spot-ups,

you create so many opportunities for everyone else. And it just made Tray's life so much easier. And he's so big, too. Like how big has hurt her? He's about six, seven? Yeah, he's a really big shooter and he's got a hindles and passing ability too for a guy that size.

He can definitely make plays off the dribble. He's comfortable being that kind of secondary, tertiary ball creator. Yeah, and he's athletic. Like, he's a good athlete. He's a, what's surprisingly athletic? I guess so, yeah. And the last guy would be John Collins

who had a very, very solid, you know, 20 and 10 type, you know, you know, stats, munching season. Yeah, to me, the thing I would try to figure out for Atlanta is like, how do you see Herder and Collins going for? What roles make most sense for them? So Herder is going to be one of your starting wings.

So I think the question for me is, if you have Trey Young and you have Herder at one wing, who's going to guard opposing point guards in a playoff series? Right. We saw with, you know, Steph and Clay having that ability to have someone else guard the the ball is so important. I think Trey, you're obviously going to hide in deep much as possible. Yeah. So I feel like you've got to find someone in this draft who can.

can really defend on the perimeter while still shooting the ball. And so the, I mean, the most obvious answer would probably be Cam Reddish. Do you think he can guard point guards though? He's so big. He's so big, but I think his, I think his ability to move is probably one of the best assets he has, like in terms of things that aren't just theoretical. Yeah, I've come around on him. I think, like, if you look at his numbers, like the three things that he had does well is steal rate, free throws and threes.

And like, if he goes to Atlanta, it's all he has to do. Right. Like, he can just spot up off the ball, you know, play defense, multiple positions. And you've got herder and Reddish on the wings next to Trey. Like, to me, that'll be really not. I think, like, if you ask Reddish to go somewhere, he has to be the man, where he has to do a whole lot of creating and how much that's going to work, but you can move him somewhere in a smaller role where he can spot up off the ball,

he could be pretty effective. To me, do you think he'll be there at eight, and do you think they'll try to go up and get him. I feel like he says a hawks player. Yeah, he definitely feels like Hawks player, and I just don't think he's a, he has necessarily the production level to, to necessitate, like, trading up for him. I don't know. But I also feel like with who Cam Reddish is, you know, being represented by and how he can definitely look the part of a star, I think he's probably moving into the top five once it's all set and done.

You look at him being a volume three-point shooter. You're really nice. So that's something to think about. And then they have, like, you think they'll trade, I remember KOC was saying that they could trade Tori and Prince

earlier this season. I mean, he's kind of the other, the unknown in their core going forward. Tori and Prince packaged with some of these picks could probably net something pretty good.

I mean, if I was the Lakers of the Knicks, I would love to get Tori. He's like the perfect guy next to Lauren or KD or someone like that. Absolutely. And you still get a top 10 pick out of it.

Yeah, Tori and Prince, I kind of projected before the season started, oh, he was going to kind of be the Hawks breakout player. Trey Young might take some time to acclimate. Things didn't really go as planned for him. He kind of got lost. Yeah, he got hurt. He got lost in the shuffle. He kind of stagnated in terms of his statistical production. But you're looking at a guy who's 6-8, strong body, can play multiple positions, can defend multiple positions, can shoot threes.

is, you know, comfortable making plays out of the pick and roll. Like, at baseline, that's a player that the Rockets could have absolutely used. He's a player that makes sense for a lot of teams trying to win now. Yeah, I think we're both Team Tori and Prince's way. We're a little surprised about the trade rumors. Yeah, I just, I don't know where he fits, especially if they're... Do you have to pay him this summer? Is he up?

Probably for an extension, right, at this point. He is... He is a restricted free agent in 2020. I guess that's what it is. He's going to want a lot of money. Yeah. And so that kind of doesn't necessarily fit with the timeline of everyone else on their roster.

John Collins is in a, he's probably going to be getting his extension in 2020 as well. Collins is the other guy too. And I think with Collins' fit is so important because I look at the guys who could be there on a front court basis, it's all about how do you make sense next to John Collins? Like, do you trust Collins is shot enough to where you can play another non-shooter next to him?

Or do you, like, want a bigger player who can kind of cover him defensively? I think that's why a guy like Dwayne Dedman made so much sense in the interim. Yeah, he was an underrated part of their team for sure. Absolutely. A guy who can, who was not afraid to shoot threes. I think he shot, like, two attempts per game.

A legit rim protector. Just a guy who knew his role and did it. Do you remember Dwayne Dedman coming out of college? Can you imagine becoming a three-point shooter? I could, actually. Oh, really? Yeah, like, he had, like, he had, like the like baseline

like look of a guy who could stretch the floor, he just didn't have the percentages. See, this is why I think I wonder about I think that the guy everyone's starting to fall in love with in this draft is Nick Claxton. Right. The Georgia big, Georgia big man, I'm sure the hawks have scotted him pretty carefully.

Right down the street. Yeah, he's interesting. He's definitely a theoretical shooter, right, with his size. And like he played, he handled the ball a lot for 6 to the 11 guy. Probably too much. I think he took a couple threes. He didn't make a lot of him, but he looked good at shooting them. He kind of looked good at shooting them.

Like, when I was watching him play, I'm like, man, for a lefty shooter, he's not, he doesn't have the most beautiful shot. Like, I think it's mostly his body, how it kind of contorts with his shot along with his shot. That kind of made it a little ugly, but yeah, anyway, like, he, he definitely has the theoretical ability. It's something that, uh, KOC is- And he can pass the ball too for a big guy. Oh, yeah.

He can pass dribble a bit. He, like, if you watch any of his highlight real, most of them are just him taking the ball up the floor and kind of isoing by himself. It's kind of remarkable to see how fluid he is and how fluidly athletic he is. I worry about his frame. I remember watching the Texas game,

and then at one point he hits a three on Hayes. I'm like, Hazel never do that. I feel like, I was like, I like Hayes to Texas guy, but asking him to ever do that, it's kind of a stretch probably. Yeah. The thing about his playmaking ability

and his ability to handle the ball is like you can definitely see, a lot of, you know, short role potential for him in the pick and roll. I don't think he was involved too much in the pick and rolls in Georgia, but, I mean, when you have that kind of feel for, you know, everyone around you and... And you play with Trey Young, too. All of a sudden, you have a lot of open, up and up and up. It's like short rolling, like the Draymond to his staff.

Yeah, and if Travis Schlenk is really trying to build up this template, I think Nick Claxton is probably the closest you're going to be getting to a rim-protecting, short-rolling guy who can make plays off the dribble and potentially shoot threes. Which we should acknowledge is crazy to talk about him to the top 10 pick. I think he was his second rounder like a couple weeks ago.

Right. So we're in that start of the draft season. We're just speculating wildly. I think he had a really good game with the scrimmages. And it's like, you know what, that's enough. Let's gamble on him. But it's also like the Hawks have so much flexibility.

They can absolutely trade down if they feel like he might not be worth, you know, drafting very high. Yeah, it's true. But yeah, it just seems like such a more sensible option than drafting Jackson Hayes at number 10. Yeah, that's what we're both kind of not real big on Hayes because of that. He's so far away skill-wise.

What about our guy Brandon Clark, though? Clark and Collins would be kind of crazy, too. I mean, that would be like, it wouldn't even be small ball because it's not an option. Like, they would just both be pretty small players out there. But that would not be the fastest big men in the league by far? Oh, absolutely. Like can imagine the lobs, Clark? Oh, man.

Clark and Collins catching lobs from Trey. That'd be the most exciting team in the league. One of the most. That's a super, at least for a guy someone else to the corner three. Oh, yeah. I mean, that would be a super, super fun team. I just wonder, like, for all the advancements that John Collins made on offense, he still was very much a negative on defense.

And I, like, Brandon Clark is probably, not big enough to cover for a lot of his miscues, I would say? Well, he blocked a lot of shots. You're right? He could protect the rim pretty well. I mean, and also the thing with the Hawks is that they're

I guess uniquely suited because they do have a bunch of platoon big men on the bench for them to... Yeah, they can move things around. Yeah, Alex Lennon is there. I think you pay Deadman, Lenny's minutes at center. You can have a fun little mix and match. I like this. If they can get Brandon Clark and Cameron Meish in this draft,

the hawks gonna be fun man I mean there yeah there's no complaints here I was just wondering in terms of like long term potential do you see a John Collins Brandon Clark front court

well you know me I'm a small ball evangelist like I'm gonna go for it so you're seeing five down the line five years down the line everyone's gonna look like this anyway so the hawks might as well be ahead of the curve well I mean right you got Janus

if you're gonna play against Janus in the playoffs a lot which you probably are I want to have a lot of long, fast small guys to run with them and jump with them, you know? Man, that is tantalizing. And who knows, maybe the Hawks end up with their version of KD

somewhere down the line as well. Really, really lock in that Warriors template. Well, you can get a version of Kevin Durant. That's probably worth doing, no matter any team. Another team with a lottery pick, but also multiple draft picks in the later parts of the first round

is the Boston Celtics. They have the 14th pick, the 20th pick, and the 22nd pick. Do they have any seconds in this draft? They, yes. They have the 51st. Man, okay. They've got a ton of picks.

It's crazy. I don't know what they're going to do. Always. Always. And I think for the most part, our mock drafts from around every single corner of the internet, typically has the Celtics drafting kind of role of the dice players, guys who may need time to develop,

but have elite upsides. we're looking at Kevin Porter Jr. I've seen, you know, what, Bull Bull? A couple times as well. What do you really make of this situation? And is there anything to really make of it until the Kyrie situation is resolved?

It kind of seems resolved right now, doesn't it? Yeah. Sure. So it seems like he's on his way out. He's already kind of using the wave emoji on Instagram, although probably was not directly in relation to his free agency staff.

But, you know, it seems like the writing's on the wall. Yeah. So what I was thinking is, what about trade one of those picks for someone like Mike Conley? Does that kind of make sense? It's like a Kyrie replacement. Okay. So, yeah. So that's assuming the Grizzlies draft Jamarat.

Draft Jamarat. So it would be a pick and would they need to throw in, how much filler would they need to throw in there? Yeah, that is a tough part. I think if you like, you tried, let me trade Mark is smart. he's your one movable salary. But I wonder if you're going to lose Kyrie and you don't want to bring in three rookies.

I feel like you've got to make some moves. Unless you're going to trust Terrizzi to run point next season. Disgruntled Terry Rozier. Well, he'll be gruntled now without Kyrie there. But I guess he'll want a bunch of money. That's a tough part. You probably can't pay Rozier big money after what he did this season.

It feels like there's going to be a lot of movement in this draft regardless, just given all the players, given all of the, I don't know, all of the hoopla around AD and who's going to make the move. I can't see the Celtics keeping all of these picks, but if they were to keep the 14th, per se,

like what kind of player do you think they should be targeting? I feel like if you're building long term, you've got to find some kind of Horeford replacement. He's like mid-30s now. He's slowing down. He probably had his worst regular season in a while. And I don't, you know, the question that I guess, like,

does Robert Williams matter? part of your long-term plan? I mean, he didn't only play this season. Nope. I mean, yeah, the biggest contribution he had was adding to NBA meme culture with his nickname, truly. So I don't think there's

much incentive for them to really invest much into Robert Williams at this point. But even then, was he going to be the Al-Horford replacement? Is there an Al-Horford replacement in this draft? I mean, I guess tough, right?

I think Williams is more of like a straight pick and roll guy. Straight pick and roll. No, he does have some skills for a big man. He's not like totally unskilled. Right. Although he was one of those guys who was just like, I'm going to return to school and I'm going to show you a completely different aspect of my game. And he returned and showed none of it.

He actually got suspended like twice. Yeah. And I think he actually shot worse in his second year than his first year from the outside. So I was just like, okay. Well, I still like you as a prospect as like an super athletic rim protector. but like you didn't really show anything new. Yeah, I mean, they were playing him at the three for a while. It was a kind of disaster.

Yeah, I mean, I think for me, if they're guys who can fit the Horford mold, that's why I have some high on guys like Clark and possibly Claxton. It's like there's not many skilled big men. Right. Who can really do multiple things. Because I think what going forward, you got to think, okay, my core is Jalen and Jason, right?

Those are my two young guys I'm building around now. Yep. If Kyrie walks. If Kyrie walks and if they don't trade for AD. which maybe, like maybe does Kauai's thing help you make that decision

if you're Boston like just go for it with one season? I mean, it really depends on what the package the Celtics are throwing out there is.

Yeah. Like if they're trading both Jalen and Jason and then what, you're tossing in smart as well? I don't know. There might not be a lot left.

Yeah, and we've kind of seen AD doesn't really like carry a team by. himself. He isn't like Kauai, I don't think, in terms of just being able, obviously not very able to handle the ball. Right. Yeah, I mean, I feel like now you're looking more of a medium rebuilt. It's kind of crazy how fast these things turn. I know. I was just thinking that. I was like, when we're thinking about what kind of player they should be targeting,

it's like, well, maybe they go for home runs here because, like, the landscape can change so quickly. All of these teams are supposedly in the running for AD, supposedly in the running for, you know, the three or four. for important free agents in the season, not all of them are going to be able to get them. So maybe you want to load up and hope that you have enough of a youth movement in your core that you can kind of weather the storm. Things change fast in the league for sure.

I mean, I think they've got their wings at that point. So then it's just finding more of a bigger player, maybe finding, I think finding a playmaker. I would want to get a playmaker out of one of these picks, given that's probably the biggest limitation in Tatum Brown's game is playmaking. game. Yeah. Is this a spot for a guy

like Goga? That'd be interesting because he can kind of space the floor too as a big man. That's another I'd be interesting guy too. Maybe he goes smaller

like a PJ Washington. He kind of gives you some interesting small ball five potential. Yeah, then bowl bowl, roll the dice. That might be a spot.

He's made more at 20 or 22. I can just feel the momentum from our podcast like just sapped right? When we started talking about the Celtics, it's just like where they were at the beginning of this season

to where they are now in terms of optics and in terms of just like the clarity of their future, it's night and day. It's incredible. But let us say like these can change fast the other way too. Like we'll overreact. If they make a big trade, next week we'll overreact and be all on the Celtics train again.

So they're going to, I think they're going to have maybe the most interesting draft night in terms of just all different things they could be doing. Speaking of a team that is currently holding on to Kyrie, apparently, here's a segue. Apparently, the Nets are one of the favored teams to land Kyrie once free agency swings around. The Nets have the 17th and 27th pick in this draft. We're talking about them as a potential Kyrie destination.

That could throw a lot of things off. terms of their calculus. I mean, should we start with their draft prospects, or should we start with DeAngelo Russell and where he fits now? It seems like that's the big question now, right? Like, would you rather have DeAngelo or Kyrie if you're the next going forward? How old do you think Kyrie is? He's like 27?

He is 27, which, like, is baffling to me because of all of his injuries over the years. And it's just like, every time you see him and he's struggling, it's like, oh, man, is this guy cooked? Yeah. And it's just like, oh, no, he's. He's 27. He should be in his prime. He's been in the league with seven, eight years now?

Yeah, since he was drafted in 2011, so eight years. It's wild. You do wonder physically how he's going to handle the next four years, especially if he's going to be a high usage guy. Right. Yeah, and his performance against the Bucks, against their length, was not necessarily the most encouraging sign to be, you know, it wasn't the most encouraging final impression to be making before your free agency bid.

then again, DeAngelo didn't exactly play well against the Sixers. It's true. It's true. But the difference there is DeAngelo is going to be turning 23. Yeah, he's so young. He's so young. And he was finally starting to pick it up at the end of the season. The final 20 games, he was averaging 24 and 7, 24 and 8 for the Nets with respectable percentages from the field, the three point line and from free throw. So personally, I don't think the Nets are net. necessarily in a position where they have to force, you know, a win now mentality. I think they have enough flexibility where they can kind of ride it out and see how this all shakes out.

I guess it depends. Like, do you believe in Kyrie's ability to attract Star Free agents? Sure. Like, that's a thing people have been saying for a while, but it hasn't actually happened. I guess it'll actually be our first test this summer. Because I think Kyrie is not enough by himself. Right. You have to bring at least, if not a Kevin Durant, a Jimmy Butler.

or someone on that level. If it's just Kyrie'd a bunch of young guys, we just saw that. Though I heard an interesting theory the other day about that. And they were saying, the biggest problem for Kyrie, I mean, was him getting injured

and the young guy succeeding without him. Right. Because then it's like, I know how to get to conference with him. I did it myself. I don't need your help. Didn't even do that. Whereas a team like the Nets,

maybe he could actually sell his final experience as a positive and be like, I've learned, I've done it. Maybe they fall in line more easily than guys who are to succeed without them. Now, the problem here is that, I mean, free agency is obviously after the draft.

And so what kind of mentality are you supposed to be taking into the draft? Because the Nets are basically in position and in the conversation for every single one of these players. They're in the AD talks. They're in the K.D. talks. Jimmy Butler, they've all expressed some sort of interest through third, fourth parties. So where do you really go from here? Do you assume that you're not favored to land any of them? and so you just kind of plan for the core you have?

See, I think for sure at 27, you probably just want to just draft and stash someone, right? Try to, like, extend the life of the asset. So just, like, take Sominich or whatever European is there. And that way, at least you can use him to trade down the line. It was kind of like, you remember with Ante Zizich and the Celtics? He wasn't very good, it turns out, but they drafted him and stashed him for like two years.

And then he still had first-round value in a trade, which he made for Kyrie Irving. Right. I think for sure with the Nets, that's second, at number 27, you just draft whoever, because you're not going to be a guy who's going to play very much. You have a pretty deep team. So I think you only get one player out of this draft.

So right now, there are a lot of Mockes seem to project the Nets picking a big man. Goga Patzi has been there. Cabengale has been mocked to them. I think we've seen PJ Washington and in past mock drafts as well. Ooh, you think he'll last of 17? I don't think he's not going to go that. I don't think so, but who knows? Maybe there's some slippage there in terms of, oh, maybe he's undersized to be playing his position or whatever.

But it's an interesting question about whether or not they need another big man, given the fact that Jared Allen has progressed the way he has. But if you look at their roster, Ed Davis, Jared Dudley, Damari Carroll, most of their bigs and small ball fours are up for free agency. So they might want to just grab a cheap platoon big man and worry about filling other positions in free agency. That could be a strategy for them as well. Yeah, they've got a pretty deep team in terms of young guys. They got my guy Rodian Scurix, of course. You know, Trevion Granite had a good year.

Lavert, he came back, Dinwiddie. So Hollis Jefferson, do you think all those guys are going to stay long term? I mean, I can't really see them committing to RHJ. He, like, at this point, what, he's, he's a five. He's a six foot, six, five. Yeah, and there's not many guys who can actually pull that off. Right.

I mean, he's a phenomenal athlete, but I don't think in the, in the net system right now, he really fits anywhere, given what Jared Allen can do and, you know, what they could potentially be getting out of, you know, Rodion's as, as a long-term four. Yeah, and you saw what Allen happened against, Embed in the playoffs. That was tough. Yeah.

So if you have a guy like Embed, probably going to be in the conference for a long time. I can see getting a bigger, you need a bigger body at center for that platoon. That would make sense to me. I mean, I think Goa would be perfect for them there. If he lands this last 17, I don't know,

but that would make a ton of sense. I feel like Cabengeli, I mean, obviously, he's not nearly as skilled as Gogh. I wonder if he really, he's not that big against a guy like Ambide. I wonder if he's going to give much value there. Right. And the other thing about the Nets is just their glut of

wings. They have a bunch of wings and we're not really sure you know, basically all of the players that are highly touted in the free agency market are perimeter players, ball creators. Where do a lot of their wings

currently on their roster kind of fit in that orbit? I will say, did you think by the end of that series, Caros Lever had been their best player against the Sixers? I feel like he kind of reestablished himself. Right. Because he got hurt being in the season and DiAngelo took over, but I'll have to go back and get the numbers, but I'm pretty sure

Karras was really carrying that team in that first-round series against Philadelphia. I mean, it was, it took a while because he kind of had to take some, you know, regular season reps to kind of get his feeling back. He really was kind of hesitant on driving the ball and kind of finishing around the rim. But by the time he was playing the Sixers, I think there was a quote actually during that series. He was just like, yeah, I felt it. Like, I feel like I'm myself again. And so that's a that's a really promising thing to have heading into this free agency market. Like if you swing and miss on a guy like Jimmy Butler,

you still have a kind of guy who projects as a star wing for you. Yeah, and that's why I wanted with Russell, whether he's ultimately better as a number two option. Because I feel like the net system really makes point guards look good. They're kind of a lot like the Rockets where they play spread, pick and roll the whole game. They always have enough shooters out there. It's pick and rolls all the time.

So it's a pretty easy way to pick up stats. So, like, I wonder with Russell, like, do you think he's a max player? To go back to DiAngelo. I mean, he's going to get paid like one, definitely. Yeah, I mean, I guess for, if you're like... You're 23. Utah, Indiana, right? Yeah.

Give him number two behind Ola Depot and Mitchell. If he'll go for that, that would make a lot of sense. Absolutely. And by the end of his contract, he will be squarely in the prime of his career. He'll be the same as Kyrie as now. Yeah. And point guards do always tend to, it seems like, they really take in a while to come along.

Like it's a very slow developing position these days. Yeah, and he's really big for his size. Very big. Six, five. I think just the improvement that he showed in the second half of the season when he kind of had to take the mantle of best player was promising. And I think he has enough secondary talent to kind of take that back seat. I don't know.

I think it's interesting. I wouldn't mind going with Russell and Lavert going forward as my two, right? That's the pretty solid group. Man, if Kyrie messed this up again, it'd be hilarious. Like, it'll be tough Kyrie and Russell on the same back court, right? If you're paying them both max contracts. Oh, yeah, no, that's not going to happen, especially because they already have Dinwiddie. Yeah, there's a lot of guys who seem to ball.

That's a lot of guys who, like, are basically pick and roll oriented. So De Anzlo could really be moving, and he could really kind of shift things around for some teams. Utah should definitely have a, take a big, strong look at him. Like, that would be interesting. pairing him and Mitchell. And Mitchell could theoretically guard the tougher guy in the perimeter anyways.

Absolutely. So he kind of covers for some of DeAngelo's. And if you're Utah, how often do you ever get a 23-year-old All-Star come play for you? Oh, man.

What a... It'd be tougher for DeAngelo. It would be very tough for the end up. It goes to Salt Lake City. I don't know if he's about that life. I don't know. He's a fast thing for age. I really haven't thought much about DeAngelo,

but he is fascinating. He's kind of under the radar I was a free agent this off season. Yeah, and look, especially if Kairis is seriously considering Brooklyn as his number one potential destination. I mean, who really knows? Maybe he goes to the Lakers. I mean, there's no way to say

at this point. Yeah. I guess if we get back to draft talk, I think going for a big at 17 makes sense for the Nets. And I'd suspect they'll just draft the draft in Stashire at 27. So this was the pick they got for taking on Kenneth Farid. And they drafted Kourke's and Musa last year.

they probably have pretty good European connections to be taken to the guy. Do you know much about Somnich? I haven't seen him much. He's... Yeah, I mean, he's kind of like more of the typical, quote-unquote, like stereotypical European big. Very fluid

can shoot a bit, but you wonder if he can actually play center? Yeah, I don't think I remember, I watched him basketball without borders last year. And all I could remember is, like, he was wearing, like, a t-shirt under his jersey. It was a tough look for him. You know, he's really athletic guys.

You had Siku Dubai out there. Yeah. And then like, they're like, okay, the big two guys in this class are Sarmich in Dubai. In Dubai, like this physical freak running around the court. And Sommich is just, you know, wearing a white tee missing jump shots. He had a really tough camp. I heard he's done better this season since then. So I don't know.

Yeah, I think KOC has him in his, I think he has him in the first round. And I think he has him as like his 28th prospect. I could be wrong there. going to like Brooklyn or San Antonio, the other team we're talking about. It makes sense for both those teams to stash somebody. That's a pretty good segue there.

Let's talk about the Spurs, who have the 19th and 29th pick in this draft. And, you know, we were just talking about Sominich as a, you know, a Spursy-type pick, but what does that really mean anymore?

Yeah, I mean, it's kind of funny. You think of the Spurs. You think, oh, they're going to draft like an really older veteran player, a lot of experience, kind of understands their system. And so I said, oh, great, and women would make sense

in the Spurs or a European player. But really, like, the last few years, they've been drafting like raw athletes. Yeah, they haven't actually drafted

a European prospect since 2015. And that guy everyone came over. Yeah. So since 2016, they've drafted Dejante Murray,

Geron Blossom game, Derek White, Chimese Metu, and Lonnie Walker. That's, those are not bad picks. For sure, White and Murray,

White had a, he had a breakout post-season Murray will be coming back next year. Then you have Lonnie Walker. It's like they have like two different teams now. They have all these young guards and they've got Damar and Lamarcus.

They got the sacrificial lamb plan for the spurs now. Right. And it's kind of this weird, I don't know, transition that they're going to have to eventually account for because next year you're definitely trying to develop Derek White.

You're definitely trying to get Dejante back in the mix. So those two are going to be your back court of the future, presumably, right? How do they fit Damar and Dejante together? That's going to be interesting. I think Pop ended up saying in his exit interview that he should have forced Damar take more threes.

So I think we're just going to... Wow, he said that. I think we're just going to start with that narrative again, where Damar is going to talk about how he's going to shoot more threes. And he's going to... And he took, like, what, 0.3-3-pointers last year? It was like a full-on... I don't even know, like, regression.

Like, he went all the way back to classic DeMarters and after his final season with the Rafters where he's like, yeah, I'm going to start taking threes now. I do feel like they found something at point guard, though. Yeah. Like, if he's not going to shoot threes, you probably want him attacking the rim and making. Yeah, that was impressive.

He had 6.2 assist career high. I don't know how that's going to work, because I think both those guys are maybe best at point guard going forward. Yeah, so you have, so you, well, I mean, ultimately, it's kind of what you want in that you have

three legit ball creators in that starting lineup but when only one of them can hit threes that kind of mucks things up I guess. It kind of defeats the purpose.

I mean I guess they don't shoot threes anyways. They'll just run a million sets to get 18-foot post-ups for Marcus. At this point, I'm thinking the Spurs probably need

a long-term big-man prospect to develop. I feel like they need shooting I don't know if they see it that way, though. Yeah. And 19 and 29, there will be plenty of potential 3-D-type players.

Kesea-Aq-Pala will be there. A lot of guys, Lugent's Dort will be there. These, like, a lot of theoretical, 3-D guys will be there for them to develop. But, like, when you have a guy like Lonnie Walker and you have Dejante-Mori, who you're trying to almost build from the ground up, with his ACL injury.

Is that too much player development for them to handle in one go? I mean, I suppose they have to start thinking about transitioning. Like, you've already got, I think you go with the best. This is definitely a draft where, like, scouting becomes very important.

Right. Where they're sitting at, because between 19 and 40 in this draft, I could, I could see the player at 40 you can bring a player at 19. Yeah. Easily.

So I don't know who they go for here. I mean, those names didn't really excite me too much. You threw out there earlier. Who are they being mocked to a lot? It's kind of all over the place, all over the map, isn't it? I feel like it, yeah, because everyone kind of has their own idea of what a spurs flare is.

Yeah, like, Tankathon has Bruno Fernando going there. Yeah, ESPN has Goga going there and going at 19. And at 29, we're looking at Darius Basley. So another, like, long shot, you know, yeah. I'll give us thoughts to my guy, Cam Johnson. I think he'd be great for the way. That'd be the guy I'd want. He's 6 foot 9.

I think he's probably the best shooter in this draft, right? Is that fair to say? Yeah, absolutely. In terms of percentages and just sheer volume, I would say so. And he can shoot off movement. He can spread the floor. I think he shot like 40% from 3 and he's 6 foot 9. And he's not like unathletic.

He's probably an average NBA athlete. I think he can hang on defense. And for a guy that size team money from 3, that'd be nice to have on this team. Yeah, I do wonder about their strategy long term. If they, like the spurs, especially with two picks, you're always kind of assuming that they're going to stash one of them. But at the same time, this team doesn't necessarily have a lot of,

I don't know, compelling talent on their roster. So you might as well get as many. They got two all-stars, Danny. Yeah. About that. I mean, like, sure, sure. But at a certain point, I guess they're going to have to transition away from... Oh, I got a couple of names for you for that second pick.

Yeah. How about Carson Edwards? Can I be a Patty Mills replacement? Oh. He'd make a lot of stuff next to DeJante Murray, a guy who can really, really shoot threes. I don't know if they need a replacement. He's up in 2021. Well, you know, you got two picks.

He's getting older. Oh, yeah, no, but absolutely. Carson Edwards is a guy who's like... I actually really like as a late first round pick. I think he's outside of my top 30 big board, but he makes a lot of sense for a lot of those teams, just the need of a scoring punch. He's not going to be shooting as many threes as he did in Purdue,

but the fact that he has a confidence to do that... I mean, why not, though, right? Yeah. If he's playing off to Jonté Murray, his only job is to shoot threes. You could take like seven or eight easily. Ooh, off the bench? Eventually, maybe even starting.

I don't know if you could start, maybe not defensively. Right. I think I have in my top, I have my top 25, I think. I think it's possible he's better than Darius. We talked about this earlier. Like, he's better in Darius Garland. They have the same basic skill set.

Yeah, really with Garland, we're looking at a five-game sample size in college and then whatever tape we can possibly muster off of his AAU and high school career. So when you look at his raw skill set, you see the kind of outline of a modern point guard in the, you know, Damien Lillard, Trey Young. Kyrie Irving mold, but still, there's not a lot to go off of. And ultimately, look, if you're just going to be bombing threes, Carson Edwards can do that too. Yeah, which I guess I don't know if the Spurs would do that.

The other guy, I think, would be, it makes sense, would be O Kiki. Yes. Is that way you can just, like, he's out the whole season with the torn ACL? I bet he got a promise day in the draft. He said he has come to his position. A team of multiple first-on picks could promise and let him rest all season not need to the play. Absolutely.

I mean, Chuma Okiki had such an interesting. incredible tournament run before he tore his ACL. Super versatile defender who just knows how to play the game. He's a great three-point shooter at his position, can defend multiple positions, and it just really knows the game, can make plays off the dribble. This is one of your guys in this draft, right, Danny?

Yeah, I really, really, really like him. Just kind of wish he didn't end his year the way it did, but I can see him definitely as a Spurs-type player. Nets, too. I think the Nets at 27. that make a lot of sense actually to go after O'Kiki. You know, for all people say

like, oh, it's a weak draft. It's always weak draft from the 20s generally. You're obviously being a good player. They're never that good. So just more about your ability to identify talent, find a role for them.

Yeah, identifying the role that you're going to be putting these kids into, pretty much. And wouldn't you say these are four the better drafting teams in the league, Hawks, Celtics, Nets, and Spurs?

Yeah. I feel like they've all done a pretty good job recently of hitting hitting on guys. I mean, especially with with Schlank being the guy at the Hawks, he's in his first year there. He really kind of showed he has a solid game plan. He has a vision. Everyone else has the kind of pedigree. Yeah.

So I feel like all these teams could get really better. And this is a draft for I think in five, ten years, a guy taking the 20s will probably be one of the top five players in this draft, right? That seems pretty safe. I don't know who it is. If I did I'd be working for him. team. But I feel like one of these guys is going to rise up pretty fast in a couple of years. Classic Charks Take. I think that's a good time to wrap this up.

Thanks for listening. Yeah. And then check out our Ringer MBA draft guide. I think we did some updates. Yep. We got the top 60 mock draft out there. Kevin O'Connor has his top 60 big board. Me and Charks have a top 30 big board. Check that all out. It's out on the ringer.com. We have a bunch of finals content for you waiting for your hungry, hungry eyes. He had a good piece about possible Draymond's band bleeds today. Oh, yeah. So check that out, and we'll see you next time.