The Ringer NBA Show - How Will Stan Van Gundy Fit With the Pelicans? Plus: NBA Mailbag | The Mismatch

Episode Date: October 23, 2020

Verno and KOC are back analyzing the Stan Van Gundy hire in New Orleans (1:20) and answering your mailbag questions about the draft, offseason team building, card collecting, and more (9:45). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Kevin O'Connor. On today's episode of The Mismatch, Chris Vernon and I talked about the Pelicans hiring Stan Van Gundy as their next head coach. And we took your mailbag questions about the NBA draft and a bunch of teams that are at the crossroads right now in the NBA. All that coming up next. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Varnan. And joining me as he does every Friday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.K.O.K.K.O.K.K.K. Kevin O'Contyland.

know what up hey man uh so it was a few weeks ago on the ringer NBA show that at the very tail end of the show i recall you saying keep an eye out for stan van gundy and new orleans and since we last spoke that came to fruition stan van gundy was hired by david griffin and the new Orleans Pelicans. I think when this all started with the Pelicans ouster of Alvin Gentry, you know, we went through the Tai Liu phase because Ty Liu had a former relationship with David Griffin. We talked about Mike D. and Tony possibly because he had a former relationship via the Phoenix Suns with David Griffin. But they do land on Stan Van Gundy as their next head coach. When you saw that news come across the wire, what did you think? Great. I'm happy. I think he could

bring some accountability to the team in terms of how much they need it on the defensive end and the floor they were horrific on defense this season and Sam Van Gundy of course infamously or famously I'm not sure uh once said build an effing wall and that's what the pelicans need to do and I look forward to seeing what he can do now that he's back in the NBA but by the way like he he failed in Detroit because he was coach and GM now he's just the coach right and he was always a good coach. He was. He was a good basketball coach and it was one of those cautionary tales of it is two different skill sets. Number one, it also, in many cases, can be two different motivations, right? If I am, if I am the general manager and the coach, now let's say I make a poor signing

or a poor usage of money. Well, sometimes I may want to use that guy to prove that, I was right about this guy, right? And I know that you still get into that with with front offices and coaches anyway, right? And everybody wants to be responsible. Everybody wants to be right about the move they made. But when you then, you're not doing the scouting of every other team on a regular basis. I know you have scouts. You're certainly not doing that with college. But it's just a very hard job to do twofold. And another cautionary tale of taking that over. I mean, everybody wants that power.

But I think we've seen two of these guys now. In fact, three of these guys now, all of which I think you would say were subpar to very below average in that role. But we respect them as guys that are on the sidelines. as basketball coaches because that is their expertise. And that is Doc Rivers, who took on that role, Tom Tibido, who took on that role, and Stan Van Gundy, who took on that role. And yet all of them got hired as coaches,

though it didn't go well at their last stops. I mean, Doc better than the other two. But we thought good hires, because these guys are good basketball coaches who were miscast trying to run everything. For sure, absolutely. And ultimately, it's another good opportunity for him with New Orleans here.

They're even though they have Zion, they have Ingram. You know, granted he's a restricted free agent, he'll likely be back, matched any offer sheet or whatever. This is still sort of a team right now that can go in many different directions depending on how David Griffin wants to build it out. And I look forward to seeing the ways in which Van Gundy utilizes Zion and the ways in which he tries to get him going offensively. Because remember, you know, before all the three-point shooting we've seen,

the last 10 years or so that it's exploded with the Warriors and the rockets and all these teams shooting a lot of threes. The magic had Dwight and Howard at center and four shooters around him in the late 2000s. With Van Gundy had head coach and they went to a finals. Granted, they lost to Kobe and the Lakers. They had some good run. They had some really strong teams. And with Williamson, with the New Orleans Pelicans, I know they want to add another big.

They don't want to go like all small ball with Zion at the five all the time. It just wouldn't work. But I think with Van Gundy's past and what he could do now with this roster, it's kind of exciting to think about the possibilities with the different ways in which they can use Zion. But most importantly, though, and again, this is like with all the coaching hires we talk about, I am more interested in the personnel changes. Who do they draft? Who do they try to trade for?

Who do they try to sign than I am who's coaching the team? But, you know, I'm excited to see if they're able to get Zion going. creative ways that they weren't able to do as much during the season despite his success. He posted up a lot, man. I want to see some more pick and roll with Zion. I want to see some more creativity with him handling the ball and running pick and roll. And that will largely come from other personnel changes that come to the roster that allow that to happen.

But hey, man, SVG has had success with some different types of teams in the past. And I look forward to seeing what he can do here with him. And that team has a good roster. They underperformed badly. You know what I mean? Sometimes teams underperform because you look at their roster and you go, man, they don't have the goods. Like that team underperform. I think so too.

I think so. Of course it, man. I mean, look, I mean, Lonzo, I think Lonzo hit one shot in the bubble. Well, even though they're young, the defense was bad. Even though they had good individual defenders. They have Drew Holiday, one of the best perimeter guard defenders. Ingram and Lonzo, they were good defenders with the Lakers. They were.

The last two years, they were good. They were not good defenders last season with New Orleans. And Zion, I mean, like, he was horrific. He was so bad on defense. It was really sad to watch. This was the guy who was blocking three-point shots closing out from the opposite side in the paint at Duke just a year prior, which is why people wonder how much of it was fatigue, coming back midseason, how much of it was the injury limiting in him, how much of it was effort. I don't know.

I don't know what it was. But regardless, he stunk on defense. And all of this needs to change next season for this team to be anything. to have any chance at actually getting into the playoffs. It can't be all offense. Well, and I think you were on board with me on, I loved their first draft pick, who they didn't develop at all,

Nikiel Alexander Walker. Oh, yeah. Like, I mean, it was odd because Jackson Hayes clearly had the better rookie season between the two and got more run between them, right? But, I mean, I like that guy, and that guy couldn't even get on the floor for them. And that speaks to how good their roster is.

I mean, they've got, you got Lonzo and you got Drew Holiday, and you got JJ Reddick, and you got Ingram. and you got Zion and Derek Favors was too important to them, especially defensively, last year. I mean, Jackson Hayes, Nikiel Walker, Alexander. I mean, they got guys on that team. He walks into a good situation with the team that I think should have won more than they did last year. And certainly was the biggest disappointment in the bubble by a wide margin.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I thought they were going to take that eighth seed. Everybody did. it was set up for them too. You know what I mean? No, come on. Don't say that. The NBA wanted it. Who?

I mean, it's not like they wanted it. They tried to get as many teams in as they could. I'm not going to argue that. It's because Zion was on one of those teams. By the way, they might have got it if, you know, coronavirus and it happened. If they played out the rest of the season when they had the easiest remaining schedule. Yeah, maybe. I mean, who really knows what would have panned out?

I mean, this is a theoretical alternate universe. It doesn't exist for us. us. But, you know, New Orleans, despite their flaws, they have a good team. They have a good team and they just need to get better defensively more than anything else. And hopefully for them, Van Gundy can help there. Well, he's certainly been known for that in the past. All right, producer, Sasha, we have asked for mailbag questions. We got some great ones last week. We are going to try to get to more this week than we did last week. Let's fire away. See what we got from our listeners. All right, here we go. Let's start with the draft since that's coming up.

So we got one from Nick Knoll. What do you think about the fit of Desmond Bain on the Dallas Mavericks at Pick 18? He could fill that secondary playmaker role to avoid Luca burnout and be the knockdown catch-and-shoot player. The Mavs need plus his strong base on defense. What do you think? Desmond Bain starting us out. How about that? Desmond Bain. Is that the TCU kid? Yeah. That was one of the first names mentioned to me as a guy, now this is early in the college basketball season, as a guy that wasn't on mock drafts that should be on mock drafts. You know what list he should be on, Chris? On your, this guy will not fail list. He should be on that. And here's why. Because there's

maybe not a smarter player in the draft. He does not make many mistakes. He's like Malcolm Brogden in that sense, where he's just somebody you can rely on. He can make, look, people talk about Lamello as the best passer in the draft. It might actually be Desmond Bain, which is ridiculous to say when he only averaged four assists as a senior at TCU. But some of the passes he makes are NBA passes, like high pick and roll, driving the lane, and kicking it out for an accurate three with his left hand to his right side, even though he's a right-handed player. He has an ability to read the floor like a veteran and minimize the mistake. stakes. And not only that, he's a knockdown shooter. He shot over 40% on over 200 three point

attempts and not just like simple little standstill shots standing in the corner. This guy can hit off the dribble for you. He can hit off movement off of screens and handoffs. And not to mention, he's a really good defender. So for Dallas or whether it's a team like Brooklyn in the middle of the first round, he is one of the reasons why with this year's draft class, I'm like, stop calling it crap. It's not a crappy draft because of guys like Desmond Bain who are going to pan out to be good role players who impact winning for contending teams. Desmond Bain is one of those players and I'm excited for whether it's Dallas or Bookin

or any team like Boston, a team like that could integrate him in right away and get a guy who can contribute towards winning. Just as you were talking about that it made me think I need to holler about my old buddy Ryan Miller. Mike Miller's brother, his little brother, Ryan Miller, is the assistant head coach there. So I'll get a full scouting report on Desmond Bain. I forgot because that's Jamie Dixon school now, who was at Pitt for 100 years, right? I should already done this research. But you, you, effusive in your praise about Bay. I love him. I love him. Like, there's very few things that you can look at and say, oh, this guy's not going to make it. Like, you can say, oh, he doesn't have a great

first step. But like, yeah, you're not drafting him to be a star player. You're drafting him to be a good role player on your team that makes a winning impact. And really, you know, it's like you're glue guy. People think glue guy is an insult. I think it's one of the greatest compliments of basketball player. Of course it is. Trevor Reese is going to play for 20 frigate years. Well, I mean, like, I'm, it's true. It's like, it's like Sasha, you're Lakers, Alex Caruso, this undrafted guy. Why does it work with him? It works with him because, he's a smart defender who knows how to rotate, who is always on top of things on offense. He can hit spot of threes at least an average clip.

And he makes smart plays as a cutter, as a screener, as a passer. Like, that's what you want is guys like that next to your store players. And Desmond Bain does a lot of those things better because he's a great shooter. And the Caruso's not. But like, like, you need guys like that on your team in order to win at the highest levels. They're critical. You got me taking him in the lottery. I mean, I'll tell you what, Chris.

I have him ranked 20th on my board, and I am, I'm trying to get him ranked higher on my board. It's just, it's hard. It's hard to balance, like, like, upside versus certainty, you know? It sounds like you think anybody that took Desmond Bain, it would be a good pick. What about specifically for the guy that asked a question? Is that a great fit with. Oh, yeah. The Maver's good.

Yeah. 100%. Like, that's what you want around Luca, just like, you know, I met you with Caruso, a guy like that, or KCP even next to LeBron. You need guys who are unselfish. who make quick decisions and who are reliable around a star like Luca

and for Dallas it's a no-brainer to have somebody like that. Also it stands to reason if the kid was, you know, obviously the kid is a TCU a lot of people in Dallas

are already familiar with him. Yeah, true. Wouldn't have to go very, wouldn't have to go very far to play for the Mavericks. Absolutely. And also just need to mention he's six foot six,

like 220 pounds. He'll probably get a little heavier in the NBA, but I mean, he's strong. You know, he's not like six two here. We're talking a big, a big body. All right.

Nothing to sniff at. Caruso is also beautiful, stunning, great personality. I mean, Rihanna, like Rihanna loves Caruso, clearly. Who doesn't love Coruso? Halsey loves Caruso. Yes. All right, I got another question about the draft for you. And also the upcoming season for the Golden State Warriors from Jacob Chilito.

What do you think they are going to do with the second overall? draft pick. Do you think Wiggins will remain on the team? We'd love to hear what you guys think about potential moves they could make and how this will impact their future. Plus, we have a quick PS. I am a close friend of Max Johnson from Sydney who sent in the question about KP and the future of the Mavs last week. And I am able to confirm that he is in fact from Sydney and not Iowa, as Vernaz said. Oh, that's good. You really do have a worldwide audience. Oh, that's perfect. All right. Look,

KOC, me and you got a bet on Wiggins. I told you'd be gone by next All-Star break. So this is a good question. Yes, they're going to get rid of Andrew Wiggins. I don't know if they'll pair it with the second pick overall, but it certainly wouldn't be the worst thing in the

world if they moved down a little bit. You know, let's say Charlotte loves somebody it too. Could you move down a little bit? you know, you still get the guy that you want. You get off that contract. You're not destroyed.

What? Well, you're not like Wiggins. I mean, Wiggins in this situation can be a solid player. Oh, stop. He can be a solid player. He doesn't fit with them. So. Why?

Why doesn't he fit with them? He can defend when he wants to. What he wants to? He can hit the league. Been in the league for seven years. Which of the seven did he do? He's a really good cutter. I wrote an article after this trade was made.

Yeah, I know you did. I read it. It was awful. I wrote it before the trade happened. The headline makes it sound way different than the, than it is. But to become the next spurs, the Warriors meet Andrew Williams. I knew you were going to react like that. You mean the DeRosen Aldrich Spurs.

I hope Shay Serrano's out listening after that joke They are well on their way to that if they keep wiggins No um look I've told you I think Wiseman is an unbelievable pick for them If they take him number two I don't think Wiseman is a great fit Or natural fit in Minnesota next to

Carl Anthony Towns Um So I think Wiseman It stands to reason he could be there, you know, depending upon if somebody trades up to Minnesota. But if they kept the number two pick, I think they would take James Wiseman. That's where I stand as up today. And I do to believe they will get rid of Andrew Wiggins.

I'll tell you what I'm confused here with what they're going to do. And so are teams and executives that I'm talking to because there's so much information out there about the warriors like what they want to do, who they want to draft, like the guys they have interested. I've reported that they love James Wiseman. I also reported that they like a lot of the wings. This week, there's a report from Ethan Sherwood Strauss that they worked out, Denny Avdia, international prospect of Ford, 6'9, does a lot of good things in the court.

And they really liked him. They liked his workout, according to Ethan. Connor from the San Francisco Chronicle has reported a bunch of stuff from the Warriors camp. And it's like, it's hard to decipher what is real and what is misdirection. So the problem we're facing, you know, from our perspective, is the same problem that other teams are facing with like, well, what do they actually want to do here? What do they actually want to do?

They're in win now mode. And I think the only player that I would be 100% would start for them next year, given their current roster, would be Wiseman. He could be a starter immediately for them. I don't know if there's anybody else they could draft. Nobody's starting over Steph, nobody's starting over Clay. If you assume Wiggins is there, he's going to be a starter and nobody's starting over Draymond.

The only position open, right? And I'm not saying you have to draft an immediate starter when you're drafting for the future. But I would say it serves both purposes. You would get somebody that could impact your team immediately and in the future with not a lot of pressure on him. I've said that since the story. This is why I've had Avdia going to them two mock drafts in a row now. It's not that I was hearing that he was the guys that I heard they like wings. Avdi is somebody who could, I think, could contribute right away too.

He can come in and be a reliable defender for you. He's a great off ball defender already after playing professionally for some number of years. And the fact is, offensively, he's a good decision maker, smart player, knows how to cut, knows how to move the ball around, which fits. The only question with him is, can he shoot? I mean, he shot 50% from the free throw line. The three point numbers wavered, you know, from, like, like high 30s to high 20s all over the place there.

Well, in fairness, they need something on their bench anyway. Their bench sticks. You know what I mean? That's gotten ravaged the last couple of years. They don't have, you don't look at the bench and have everybody from, you know, back to the glory years where it was Leandro Barbosa and Iguadala and Sean Livingston and all these kind of guys. I mean, they had a bunch of no names last year.

I think some of those quote unquote no names are going to pan out to be solid rotation players. was like just one of them at least Eric Paskill. Paskell. I thought he had a good year for the Warriors. What do you think about pool? Sort of went overlooked. I mean, I thought I was maybe, maybe. I was never super into him as a prospect. But he was an interesting pick though because he's such like a,

he was a ball dominant player. That thing was out of nowhere. Yeah. That was the most shocking of the picks regarding my crash. It didn't seem like a Warriors pick at all. Sort of like, just to mention the Spurs again. I was shocked when the Spurs took the Jean- Monty Murray. That did not seem like a spursian pick to me because he kind of

have like a shot chucking style at Washington in college. But anyway, yep. What are the Warriors going to do at number two? I have no idea. Nobody does. All right. I say Wiseman. What we got Sasha? Jordan Poole is also an icon of fashion. He is one of the, I would say he is a pioneer on a tight shorts. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. He has the tightest shorts in the NBA followed maybe by LeBron James actually. The Michigan kid, he's super tight with Jared Jackson Jr.

I know that because when they, when they came to town, that was like a family reuniting. And I was like, huh, I didn't realize they were such good buddies. Michigan, Michigan State. Yeah. I guess they grew up playing together. All right. Let's do a non-basketball question. Have KOC and Verno ever wanted to do a rewatchable's?

And if so, what movie or movies? Chris Kelly. Huh. I'm not a huge movie guy, so I don't know if I'd be, it would have to be one of the movies I've seen a thousand times. Well, what movie have you seen a thousand times? Well, they already did it. They already did it. No, I wasn't a part of it.

What was it? What was the movie? My favorite movie ever is the Princess Bride. As a child, I bet I watched the Princess Bride. I mean, if you sat down and turned it on, I think I could do, I would get 98% of it. of the lines correct of the entire movie. Wow. Yeah, I've seen it that many times. Wow. I loved the Princess Bride as a kid and then even into adulthood.

I still love it. Every time it's on, I still watch it. That's my favorite movie ever. I wrote a paper about it in college. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I know if they ever do a rewatchables for Interstellar, I want to be on that. Oh, that's a good one. I love Interstellar very, very, very much. Sean Fantasy, one of the hosts of the rewatchables is not the biggest interstellar fan. Yeah. I'm sure it'll ever happen. But Sean Fennessey and everybody from the rewatchables, if you ever do Interstellar, please, please ask me. Please.

That's the only one I feel like I'm capable of being on that show for. Because like you, Chris, I mean, I love movies. I love movies, but I listen to the conversations that they have. And I'm like, damn, I just don't. I don't pay attention well enough. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I get, I'd have to go back and watch them. Yeah, yeah.

And so many of those movies that are. truly rewatchable, they've done them. You know what I mean? And like, I think it's also, I love that show because it's like, I feel like the way they analyze movies is the way we sort of talk about basketball. So I'd have to change the way I watched the movie before going into the rewatchables. I have a notepad out thinking about like, you know, I wouldn't have a notebook notepad out.

And think about it that way. But I don't do that for that. I think if it's a movie that you've seen, like if it was like Princess Bride, Chris, you could you could just pull out your mic and you'd be fine. That's right. You know what I mean? I think if you like, if it's a movie that you've watched a thousand times.

But that is the only movie that I would feel confident that I know everything about. Everything. What would you say, Sasha? We want your answer. Well, they have done a couple. But if they did, there are also for me a few movies that I've seen truly one billion times. How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days is for sure one.

I think I've seen that movie a thousand times. and then also like every Amanda Binds movie from the O-O's What a Girl wants, I could do that and she's the man I know every line of that movie.

By the way, Chris, I don't think I've ever seen The Princess Bride. I don't think I ever have. Oh, it's so depressing. I just pulled it up on IMDB or... I don't have a ring for it.

I don't know. You're going to get some tweets for that. There's a lot of great movies I haven't seen. Yeah, do me a favor and watch that one. I'll watch it before Tuesday. I will. All right? I will.

It's only an hour and a half. You'd love it. Yeah. If it was like two hours, 38 minutes instead of one hour, 30. I don't know if I'd watch it. You'd love it. 90 minutes, I'll check it out. If there's anybody out there doesn't like the Princess Bride, they cannot be trusted.

Unfollow Chris. No, they can't, yeah, unfollow me. You cannot be trusted. A lot at stake for me ahead of Tuesday. Yeah, that's right. Tuesdays. Tuesdays are going to be trusted. I will find you untrustworthy.

We got to check back in with you. Oh, it's right up your alley. I think you will love it. He'll love it. Adventure family fantasy. While home's sick in bed, a young boy's grandfather reads in the story of a farm boy turned pirate who encounters numerous obstacles, enemies, and allies in his quest to be reunited with his true love. It's perfect.

I'm into it already. It's perfect. It is family, but it's also like you can totally watch it as an adult and like enjoy every part of it. Oh, of course. Of course you can. All right. So let's go to a question about the Nets because I feel like we actually haven't talked about them that much. Because Karris LaVerdie emailed us.

Hey, am I going to get shots next year? Oh, my God. The answer's no, Karras. You better make a high percentage of the 11 you get. I was actually Kevin McDevitt. And he says, my question is simple. Do the Nets have the clearest path to the first seat? I assume he means in the East.

As a lifelong New Jersey Nets fan, I have waited patiently as a team has been completely ignored in all basketball discussions. But it is officially time to look forward to the 2021 season. As presently constructed, the Nets are the best basketball. team in the East. Is that fair or unfair? Okay, number one, and I'm sorry, Kevin. That's bull crap. They were on the cover of Sports Illustrated when they had the KG, Paul Pierce, Jason, kid. They got all the attention in the world. They get too much attention because they're in Brooklyn. Every media member loves Brooklyn. They loved Kenny Atkinson. They loved Kenny Ackinson. They got talked

up more as an eight seed than any eight seed in history two years ago. And, And that was a very likable team. I loved them myself, that team that had that whole bench of like, you know, Damari Carroll and Jared Dudley and Ed Davis, all those guys that were going crazy all the time. And it was a fun team. Everybody liked it. And then obviously this last year, it went the wrong way. That being said, we've got to see what KD looks like.

First, I assume he's going to be amazing because I don't think that, like many players, he isn't as dependent on extreme athleticism as many of his peers. And so his ability to come back from this injury strikes me as something totally plausible. And in fact, I bet on it. I don't know if they'll be in the mix. I mean, you know, you got to see what Toronto does in the off season. We got to see what Boston does in the all season. We got to see what Philly does in the off season.

We got to see what Miami does in the off season. And so, I mean, you cannot pencil them in as number one, but they're in the mix with the other four. You know what I mean? And I think there's going to be a dog fight. I do think there's going to be at least six or seven dynamite teams in the East next year. I agree with all that logic, Chris. I think to answer your question, Kevin, with this Nets team, so much of it's going to be dependent on health. When it comes to like, if you're the one seat or the two or the three or the four, especially with the East having as many good teams as it has, does, like, let's say it's an 82 game season.

Does Kyrie play 60 games? Does he have 70 plus? Does Kevin Durant, you know, come back? And is he resting for back to backs after coming back from a ruptured Achilles tendon? Does he play the full season? Like a lot of that is dependent on health and, you know, load management and all that. Ultimately, like in terms of one seed, I think that that hearing that means, like, are they the lead contender in these? Like the bucks were considered the number one contender.

Will the Nets be considered the number one contender entering next season's post? season or even entering the season itself before it plays out. Yeah, I think a lot of that will depend on what else we see. What else do they do entering the off season? Will there be a big trade that becomes available? Like if Gobert, if Utah one year of head of his regency decides to trade him, would they make a move for him? I don't know. I mean, like, I'm not sure what's available for Brooklyn. But if Kevin Durant is anything like Kevin Durant, which I think there's reason to believe he will. There's some logic to the fact that he ruptured his right Achilles and not his left.

When he, when jumping for layups or dunks as a right-handed player, he typically jumps off his left leg. So even if he loses a little bit of power with his right leg, there's some logic that people have talked about around the league that it won't affect him as much. That's something Dominique Wilkins, I believe, had experience before to his benefit. So with KD, I would expect KD to be pretty close to the KD, WISA, injury. And if you got that guy in your team, you got a chance to do something special. So yeah, they get a shot, but we'll see how the rest of the off season plays out.

Yeah, Kyrie's got to prove he can make somebody better, too. He made Boston worse when he was on the court and he made the Nets worse when he was on the court. Yeah, I'm sorry, but that's a true. Both teams were better when he wasn't in the lineup. I mean, that is a huge demerit. That is not true of almost anybody else that we consider a star, that when they're out, we can, the team is better? Like, and that's happened now in two different situations, you know, in a row. And we don't know what Steve Nash is going to be like as a coach. That's true, too.

It's another factor. Right? It's his first time on the sideline. All right. I mean, and if he is, is he even really head coach, you know? We're kind of all head coaches. You know, really. It's collaborative.

That's right. Okay. So the next one is from Jake Saul. heard you mentioned before that you collected cars with your son Chris. Have you ever thought of doing a small segment of what you guys are buying and collecting? And maybe you just want to shout out right now. Oh, well, I'd say, so I bought a ton of Morant's, the rookies. Because my son, my daughter, they love, love, love, John Morant, right?

So I bought, I invested in a bunch of the Morant rookies. the last one I got was a rookie autographed Jimmy Butler that I bought on eBay and it's crazy I've had more than a few eBay sellers ask me if I'm the guy

from the ringer MBAs I'm not kidding one of which sent me a Brooke Lopez card in the mail is a Jim already told that yeah that's right yeah John Moran who else did I buy

I bought Zions I did invest in some of those. I bought the Butler one right before the finals. I bought who else did I buy? I've got a couple, I have a Tyler

Hero that I got, you know, I just kind of like I'll look and I got into those PSAs like the PSA 9s and tens and try to try to bid on those when the auctions come up. It's typically been rookies.

that I've got, it's pretty well all rookie cards that I've gotten of people. I've got some Lucas. Who else is, who else would be a big one that I would have tried to go get? Those are the major, those are the major ones. And then if anybody wants to, well, I don't, I almost don't want to say because then people are going to try to outbid me. The ones that are low right now, you can get the Zions lower than I think what they will be. But like some of these other guys, Colin Sexton, Deerran Fox, guys that I really, guys that I

really like that I think their best days are really ahead. Like, those are the ones I, like, kind of scout out now. How much would, like, a PSA 10 Zion cost right now? You'd be lucky to get it for 700. So, so I'm just... You'd be, I think, you could probably get it for five. You can probably get one for five. The reason I ask is I'm fascinated.

It feels like card collecting has sort of surged in the last year or two. So, and I mean, I just, I want, why, why is that happening? Has there been like a feature story written on like why card collecting has become Do you know who Gary V is? He has made a massive impact on this. Interesting. Does he find them to be a good investment compared to stocks? No, he's been telling everybody that for the last five years.

I do think he has had an impact on that because of how famous he has gotten. He also, there was a player. Who was it? Was it C.J. McCollum? It was some player in the NBA. that was with Gary Vee, and he told him he invested in, I think it was like LeBron rookies or something like that, and he had made like $100,000 in a month.

Oh, wow. Like flipping cards. Interesting. And I think there is, I think there's a couple of things. The supply and demand has gotten much, much greater. It used to be if I went to Target, my son would ask me for a box of cards every time we went, right? When he was little, littler. He's 10.

You can't find cards anymore. You can't find them. Like, they're not at Target. They're not at Walmart. We can't get them. Like, they used to always be there. So that's one thing that you've noticed. The other thing is everybody that grew up and loved it, now they're my age.

That's true. And we got kids. And kids like that. And kids like cards. And so now we're all back into it. And now we got money to be able to do it. And so now you've got the, it's the stock market thing. You know what I'm saying?

And it's a lot more fun to me because I've always just been a, I don't buy them to flip them. I buy them to have them. And then if it becomes extreme where I feel like, hey, I can make a lot of money off these cards, then I would flip them. But yeah, I've collected my whole life.

And I've just kind of in the last year, I will tell you that this is crazy. I have, and this is the surge that has taken place. I went back and looked in December. I went and bought a slew of Jaws and Zions because I knew that my son was going to ask for basketball cards for Christmas. I was worried that if we bought the boxes of cards,

that he wasn't going to get what he wanted. So I went out of my way and I bought them as singles to make sure that we would have them, right? I went back and looked and those cards that I bought, I bought them for like five bucks. bucks, six bucks, ten bucks. Some of those graded are like $1,000 now. It's amazing. Within six months.

It's crazy. I bought them and that was in December. Is this like sneakers? Yes. Yeah. And all the sneaker kids are getting into the cards now too. They are. Because the sneaker game is hard.

I'm just fascinated by it because I have one friend who flips sneakers all the time. I've known him since high school and like, I don't know what he makes from doing it, but like it doesn't really matter to me. But like I know like it's it's impactful for him to continue doing it into his late 20s into his 30s. It's something it's worth doing for him. And for card collecting, it seems like that is a similar thing. So for me, like I remember hearing when I was young, like these Pokemon cards can be

worth a lot someday. And there are a couple that are. Oh yeah. A couple that are. Hey, don't tell me you've got a Charisard refrax. actor. I haven't looked through it. You know,

you got a Charzard, rookie. You're in the money. I definitely have holographic Charzard in there. What condition isn't in? I don't know. Let's go. Let's go,

Kev. I don't know, but like, I'm just very interested in it because you're right. That's the number one thing that comes to mind. It is more fun for you and for your kids to get like a job of rant,

you know, whatever, brand it is that the one that's doing well than it is to get like four shares of Apple. Oh. You know, Hey, do you know when the, I just remember the last one I bought, I bought two like really good Kyler Murray rookies.

That was the last one I bought, Tyler Murray. And that was at the beginning of the NFL season because I looked at their schedule and I'm like, oh, God. What is the upside on like a John Morant or a Kyleor Murray? Like what is it become if he becomes like a really great player, not maybe not a Hall of Famer, but. Oh, God. If you saw what these Lucas are going for now. I know, but, like, Luca, but like, what, what is, like, the comparable for, like, what is a Carmelo Anthony rookie card right now? Oh, well, it's hard.

I mean, you would have to strike while the iron's hot, right? There was a time. Like, Carmelo was actually a player. Like, okay, I'll give you an example. Those LeBron rookies, you could have gotten them for a couple hundred bucks and now you might get, I mean, what you just saw what gets sold for a million bucks? If you've got one of those, like, an amazing condition now that is graded, I mean, you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars for some of these stupid cards.

It's crazy, but it's true. There's like a 2003 Topps, gem mint PSA 10 for 255 with 17 bids on it six days ago on eBay right now. So that's pretty good. Like if you got that card for, I don't know,

$100, bucks, triple in your profit, you know, 10 years later? Wait, what is that? What card is that? I don't know if the return on investment

is worth it for all cards. But I don't know, I'm just very, I'm very interested in the card. collecting world is all I'm saying. Oh, like, all right. Here we go. Here's a, here's a Luca rookie PSA 10, right?

So we're just two years removed. The first one I pulled up is on sale for PSA 10 for $1,500. Jeez. 1500, Kev. I can't imagine spending that much money on a card, but, you know, like that I'm also like frugal when it comes some money. You could have bought those and Janus ones for, I mean, you could have bought him for a couple hundred bucks six six months a year ago and if he continues

on his trajectory as a guy who could become like a top 20 all time player maybe more than that but what like what is the upside of that card you know like if lucca becomes that player for real it's the gamble it's the game what does it be yeah it is a gamble but like what is what's the upside of it like what does it become or is it like stocks where the number just keeps going up and up and up and up. No, it could. I mean, you could look and trying to get one of those could cost you.

I could be $3,000 in a year. He won MVP. If he won MVP and you try to go, again, it's supply and demand. That's true. And that's true. Like, if you have two of those, let's say somebody has two Luca PSA 10 genuine rookie cards.

They might sell one of them the year he wins MVP and hold on to the other for the next one. Oh, and the bigger this gets and the more people get involved with it, now all of a sudden that supply and demand it changes well and like you're seeing this in other industries too with like like creating blockchains you know for people to invest into like a replay or whatever i don't know i think the NBA recently recently released something with like you can own like a play or whatever i'm not sure i didn't really look too much into it but i don't know there's different ways of investment in blockchain or card collecting two different extremes a physical and the non-physical

seem to be ways in which we're moving forward. That's an interesting question. It was. It sparked an interesting conversation. I'll tell you this. The first time we brought it up on the show, I had a guy on Instagram, DM me,

and he goes, you have absolutely no idea how big this has gotten. He goes, my only feed is for basketball. It's just basketball cards. He started a basketball card collecting feed. He had over 20,000 followers. He said in the last three months,

he had made over 25 grand and he said, and this thing has exploded. I just happened to be, I was always the guy that loved cards and I was into it and he's like, this thing's gone crazy. It's pretty cool.

It is. It's going crazy. You know what I mean? And the guy's got a whole business out of it now. It's amazing. Wild. Unreal. What's next?

You told me the same thing about my beanie babies, but still waiting on that. Oh my gosh. Getting a little thread bear. All right. Okay, let's do one more. So I'll let you guys choose. We have one about Tailu and a one about the Nix.

I don't want to talk about either of those. Either one. Either one's fine. I think there's going to be more Nix fans out there that sit there and go, why didn't you take the one about the Nix? Then there are Tailu fans. Let's do them both real quick answers. Okay, cool.

So if Killion Hayes is from Al-Li-Lews, Alex Canzone. If Killian Hayes isn't available at 8 for New York, what do you think about New York trading the pick to Boston for 14, 26, and 30? Celtics can consolidate their plethora of picks, get a potential long-term answer at center, Nix can take multiple swings at building a cheap young cord to entice stars. Let's just also say, like, you know, what do you think they're going to, nicks are going to do with that pick? I'm not sure the Celtics would do that trade.

I mean, it depends on if they love the player who's available like Killian Hayes, but ultimately for New York, this pick is going to be fascinating to see what direction they go because they need guys who can handle the ball. And Killian Hayes is somebody who makes sense there. Tyrese Halliburton, somebody who makes sense there. But maybe they go a veteran route instead with a Chris Paul. I'm not sure what the Knicks are going to do with that spot.

But ultimately, I do think you're thinking along the right lines, Alex, and that a trade down, whether it's with Boston or whether it's with somebody else, else makes sense to get more assets because like I said, this year's draft has a lot of good potential role players. And if they can get a couple more shots at those guys later in the draft to me, that makes some sense. But Killian Hayes, I would just take him if he's there. I am of the opinion. You've got a crack at a top 10 talent. Nail the pick. That's the truth of the matter. You got to nail this because I think when you just got RJ last year, that is what you are going to be building within mind going forward. You don't really.

have much else that you're building with going forward. If you want to say Mitchell Robinson or some of the other guys that are younger on the team. But RJ's the guy, right? And so if you can find somebody and 8's usually it has been a good

spot where people have dropped that 8, 9, 10 range has been in many drafts where somebody that was projected to go higher drops for whatever reason and you can't believe he's still available. And the truth is, you've just got to nail it.

There's only seven teams that could take players ahead of you. I would try to find the best possible talent for me to pair up for the next five years with R.J. Barrett. That's what I'd do. I would not move that pick. All right. Let's move on to Tyler. You guys talked about a little bit like, I think last week when he was hired his head coach. So Stafford, Hepenstall, probably one of the best names we've ever seen.

as a question. I generally got the impression that Tailu is not a good coach, but after this last Clippers shit show and all the money and draft capital, the Clippers have spent to be the team in L.A. I don't think Steve Ballmer is going to hire based on gut. What have you heard about the Tailu interview

and what is his coaching style? Is he going to be good? Seems like the vibe here. Well, I mean, it's not the first time he's been on a bench. You know what I mean? He was home with Cleveland, right? and he obviously had to navigate that. And look, when he left there,

if they could have come to terms with him with the Lakers, they would have hired him. So to me, that's a hell of an endorsement. If LeBron said, you know, LeBron is at his issues with a myriad of coaches in the past. But given the opportunity to have his say, that's who he wanted. And so to me,

I think you've got to give Tailu the benefit of the doubt, right? When the best player in the world, when he was asked, who do you want to be your coach, said Tailu, and you just couldn't come to financial terms with him, I think he gets the benefit of the doubt as a coach. And obviously he did a great job in Cleveland when he was a coach here. I think that sums it up well. LeBron has been coached by so many different people over his entire career.

And Tailu was somebody that he respects and somebody he wanted to be coached by again. Yep. I mean, that kind of says a lot. to me. That's it. I have a follow up though about like, yes, he works with LeBron, but we've seen that Kauai and LeBron are starkly different in how they lead a team. So like, do you think that there is going to be that same harmony with Kauai? I don't know. I mean, I mean, we'll find out from my understanding is that Tailu had the respect of a lot of guys in that locker room. Right.

And so I'm sure they gave their endorsement in conversations with the front office as well. I agree with you. Steve Balmer wouldn't have hired him. Steve Balmer wouldn't have hired him if he didn't get the endorsements of the major guys on that team. As far as the, what have you heard about the interview? What I heard was Ty Lou walked in and said, give me a shit ton of money. And Steve Balmer said, okay. Incidentally, the same thing he said to Rob. He also said, all right, it's been a month.

You haven't hired anybody. Why don't you just hire me and Steve Bulmer? Okay. All right. That's going to do it for another episode of the mismatch. Great questions as always. Thanks to producer Sasha as always. Kevin,

I will talk to you next Tuesday. Have a beautiful weekend, everybody.