The Ringer NBA Show - How Will the Last Eight Games Affect Playoff Seeding?

Episode Date: June 30, 2020

We discuss how some of the lower seeds might get shuffled in the final eight games of the regular season before locking in the playoff matchups (10:30). Then, with no show scheduled for Friday, we dive back into the mailbag early this week, answering your questions about players from the last four drafts who we haven’t given up hope on, biggest underachievers in NBA history, what games we’re best at, and more (37:17). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Kevin O'Connor. Before we get to today's episode of The Mismatch, I wanted you to hear the trailer for the Ringer's new podcast. It's called The Cam Chronicles. It's about Cam Newton, NFL quarterback, and it's hosted by our staff writer, Tyler Ricky Tynes. Here's a clip. From the Ringer, I'm Tyler R. Times.

When I spoke to NFL star Cam Newton in January, his mindset was clear. I want my whole career to be in Charlotte. Cam was. He won't be getting that wish. He was released by the Carolina Panthers in March. Cam is a complex figure, and my interest in him goes far beyond his exuberant smile and transcendent style of play.

Cam broke the glass ceiling in American athletics, ascended to a place in a sport that few black quarterbacks have ever reached, making his fall that much more dramatic. Over the past year, I've traveled the country speaking to coaches and teammates, friends and family, reporters, and even briefly to the man himself, trying to unravel the enigma that is Cam Newton. I uncovered contradictions at every turn. How can the hardest work on the team be depicted as a bad leader? And how can a franchise icon with the NFL MVP and Super Bowl appearance on his resume

be so abruptly cast aside? The Ringga NFL Show presents. The Cam Chronicles. The series premieres Monday. July 13th. To The Ringer NBA show, I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, A.K., Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Climber.

Kevin O'Colk, Kevin O'Cover. What's going on this Tuesday morning, buddy? Well, we do have some news we are going to get to. We will also get to a mailbag today as we will be off on Friday, as everybody in the Spotify family is going to be off at the end of the the week with the July 4th holiday right around the corner. That being said, Kevin, I did watch some basketball for the first time at a long time this weekend on Sunday night.

The 2001 NBA Finals were on. And I will say during this whole quarantine thing, I have watched a lot of these old games, but my son was in the room with me. And we flipped on the game. It's a 2001 game one of the NBA finals with the 76ers and the Lakers. It's the Iverson stepping over Tyron Liu game. It's the one that the Sixers won that went to overtime. I'll tell you this, it was fun as hell to watch back.

And somewhere along the way in the last 20 years, it has been lost that they won that game. Iverson went off. He stepped over Lou. But Eric Snow hit two of the absolute biggest shots you could hit in the NBA finals of both regulation and overtime. That stood out. And then you will love this.

The funniest part was there's a moment. in, I think, the fourth quarter, and Shaquille O'Neal goes to the free throw line. And so there's a little doubt time, and they're talking about this. And it flashes up on the screen. Shaquille O'Neal, in game ones, 38.17 rebounds per game. And my son looked at me, he goes, are those his stats? And I said, yes, William, those are his stats. That is what he had averaged in game ones.

and it was crazy to see, like, a little kid seeing that on TV. He's like, he ever said that in game one's in the playoffs? I was like, yes, he's unstoppable. He's unstoppable. 38 and 17, it said. And I'm like, come on. People forget. Shack was a bucket.

Oh, my God. 38 points a game. And then the craziest was Marv Albert and Doug Collins are on the call. And they are, I think it's 94, 94 at the under regulation. you know Iverson's getting the ball, but they can't get him the ball because they're double at him. So the Sixers bringing up the court,

they get a wild shot off at the buzzer that no chance of making, really. And anyways, as they're coming out of the timeout, Marv Albert, and I'm just, look, it's a 2001 broadcast. I ain't going back and looking it up. But Marv Albert is like, Alan Iverson, who's been great tonight,

has never had a game-winning shot in his career going all the way back to high school. And I was like, what the hell? Like, is that true? Like, I mean, it was so funny that I wanted, I almost wanted to go back and look up a stat to see if he was right. I mean, I'm just, I'm taking it for what it's worth. But if anybody saw this or if it's ever on again and you see it,

he does say that right before the last shot of the game. And I'm like, how is that possible? Alan Iverson had the ball in his hand. He's the best player on everything he played on from the time he was seven years old. Right? and he took 50 shots a game. Never hit a game winner, at least until that point. According to Marvel, Albert, I mean, like you said, not about to look it up, but, you know, very interesting to hear that live on the broadcast.

I'm glad you and your son watched an old game. Yeah, it was fun. That must have been a cool experience. Like, what did you talk to your son at all about, like, what he thought about how style has changed? Not right. Was that just not something that came up yet? I'll tell you, I'll tell you, weirdly, as you are watching it, I don't, think, I'll say this. Obviously, I notice the lack of three-pointers taken and the difference

in spacing, but, you know, Kobe gets the ball and goes, and Iverson gets the ball and goes. And so you see a lot of the star-level basketball that you see in the playoffs, right? Especially coming down the stretch. You still see that in the games now. I didn't see some kind of massive contrast. The biggest thing is Shaq in there and Mutumbo in there. You know, those two guys down there. And really, it's when the ball comes off the rim, it feels like now the ball goes the other way. And there are so many possessions where a miss does not mean your possession is over. I've never looked at the numbers on this, but it just feels when you're watching it, it feels like there's a lot more offensive rebounds and the possessions last a lot longer.

longer than they did. And look, that's almost 20 years ago. And obviously we don't have anything that looks like Shaq. But the Iverson thing, he's as electric as you can pop him in today's NBA. And he'd be as electric and athletic. And he's doing the crossovers and, you know. The point you brought up about how like you just gave it to Iverson and he goes, you gave it to Kobe and he goes.

That's the one misconception about the game today when it comes to shot distribution. Star players, you know, the top volume guys, still take just as much mid-range jumpers late in the clock or even early in the clock as they ever did before. And Seth Part now at The Athletic or a great piece about that, I believe last year that the main change in shot distribution was to the role players. Big men don't take those 12-foot baseline jumpers anymore. Now they take corner threes or above the break threes. It's the wings and the bigs that are, you know, secondary players that have changed the way they shoot. But star players, you know, whether it's like a guy, a second tier star like C.J. McCollum, or a first tier guy like Kauai Leonard. Those guys still pull up from anywhere they need to in order to generate a basket.

So in that sense, like in the finals and playoff situations, we've seen this. We saw it with Kauai last year with the Raptors. We saw it with KD and Warriors runs. We saw it, you know, not as much with Steph, but because he's so much of a, three point shooter, there's guys like him. But for the most part, a lot of guys still take mid-range jumpers if they're a superstar. Well, and here's the other thing, Kemp,

from watching all these games over the course of the past couple of months, just in the, just wanting to watch basketball, um, 80s, 90s, 2000s, I've watched games from every era. The huge thing that stands out by a wide margin is there is just,

there's it's crowded. It is crowded from the free throw line down. And it's not. It's not crowded now, right? You flip on a game now. It's not crowded. And there are always guys close to the paint in those games from all those eras.

And you just don't, that, that's the biggest difference. There's never a time where Shaquille O'Neal's 10 feet away from the, even 10 feet away from the basket. You know what I'm saying? It's just crowded. And there's not driving lanes like there was. It's this, not as much, to me, I don't sit there and go, how many threes have they taken? I sit there and go, my God, where are you supposed to drive?

It's so crowded. You know what I mean? Like, there's no driving lanes. That's how so many three-pointers are generated anyways. Yep. They attack and get to the paint and then kick it out for a spot-up three-pointer. It's driving kick. That's so much of what the game is today.

And so, like, when you're watching and your mind is going to where are the driving lanes. It's that initial action today that creates so many of the shots. You don't just pass the ball around the perimeter, you know? That's not how those shots are created. And here's the other thing. Fours don't shoot. And if they do, it's like 15.

It's like 15 feet. You know what I'm saying? It's like Carlin. Carmelon. Baseline jumpers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like Carl Malone elbow jumper. But like fours generally, they're not shooting. So they're by the basket too. You know what I mean? At power for, true power forward. And that's what every, that was the archetype. what everybody wanted to have.

But it's been fun watching those old ones. In terms of news we got going on now, we're about a month away. In fact, I think we're exactly a month away today, aren't we? It is somehow. Yeah, it's June 30th. It is somehow June 30th. Yeah.

So we are one month away, assuming this all takes place in Orlando, we got some unfortunate news yesterday regarding the Brooklyn Nets. Spencer Dinwiddie confirmed to have coronavirus as was DeAndre Jordan. Dinwiddie up in the air, Jordan has already said he is not going to be in Orlando when there is a return to play. You also had, since we last spoke, Wilson Chandler had opted out.

And so we knew the nets. It wasn't going to be some kind of tough go if you had the nets on your schedule. I think most of the teams there thought or marked it down as a price. probable win. But then, you know, they're not going to have Durant. They're not going to have Kyrie. They're not going to have Jordan. They're not going to have Wilson Chandler.

I mean, that's a lot of rostered players. They are, I mean, who knows if Dinwiddie will play, but, you know, they already had gotten rid of their coach. And now their roster is just going to be a shell of themselves in Orlando. For sure. And for the Nets, like, they might fall to that eight seed. And Washington at the nine seed right now, they have to go at least six and two or better. in order to qualify for a playing game against Brooklyn or Orlando.

It's highly unlikely. However, I mean, there's always a chance. And the nets are certainly depleted. And if they're not going to fall to the eight seed and have a first round of date to the bucks, they're probably an easy out for Toronto or Boston, whoever ends up with the two seed. The one thing that's very interesting about Denwitty and D'Andre Jordan yesterday is each of them issued a statement in which they, not so subtly blamed their return to New York City for the reasons for their positive diagnosis. Dinwiddie said in his statement originally, we were supposed to be one of the teams to enter into the Orlando bubble early,

but training camp got switched back to New York and unfortunately I am now positive. And then DeAndre Jordan said in his tweet something very, very similar. Found out last night and confirmed again today that I've tested positive for COVID while being back in market. As a result of this, I will not be in Orlando for the resumption of the season. So both of them alluded to the fact that they had to go back to New York. And understandably so in the sense that it's like, I'm assuming they were flying commercial. Maybe they were on a private jet. I have no idea.

But assuming they were flying commercial back, there's significant risk, man, being trapped in a cylinder 20,000, 30,000 feet above the ground where everybody's breathing the same air. And to be clear, you know, the way airplanes work, I guess there's filters and whatnot that filter out the air. every 30 seconds or whatever. But like if you're sitting next to somebody, close quarters. You never know. You never know. And like I can understand why DJ and Dinwiddie would feel that way, you know, because it's true.

Originally the Nets were one of the teams that were advised to go to Florida early, like the Toronto Raptors were. And it could have still happened there too. So it's like if you get sick or you get a flu, you can't just blame one person. You could have got it from anywhere, right? but it's understandable why those guys feel, you know, disappointed about their positive diagnosis like anybody would. And you know they do because it can't be coincidence that both of them mentioned that specifically.

Oh, yeah. Right. They mentioned the fact that they had to go back to Brooklyn. So it doesn't matter what everybody else thinks. And it honestly doesn't matter what the truth is, right? As much as the way they feel. Yeah, these two guys feel like, dude, if I wouldn't have to come back to Brooklyn, maybe I don't have this thing. I should have been able to go straight to Orlando.

And so they feel like that was a misstep, right? And that they're having to pay for that misstep. So who knows what kind of team they are going to be able to field at all in Orlando when there is the resumption of play? Their schedule was Orlando, Washington at Milwaukee, Boston, 7th,000. the Clippers, Orlando, Portland. I mean, if we're just being fair, the only one that they would even have a chance, I think, of being favored in.

Maybe Orlando is a pick-um, and Washington they would be favored in. Every other game, they would be an underdog on this, of their eight that they were going to play. They would be an underdog to Milwaukee, Boston, sack, the Clippers, and Portland. and pick them at best against Orlando. So, I mean, it's, look, I mean, I don't know if it really,

but the point is I don't know if it really matters what their, what kind of roster they field because even with Dinwiddie and Jordan in the lineup, this team was going to be up against it. Now, the more fascinating thing is, okay, but they are pretty solidly playoffs. So what kind of team do you feel then? And that does matter because all of a sudden, you know, Milwaukee has a tougher go than whoever's to Toronto right now. Obviously Boston would be greatly incentivized to get up to two.

Yep. To be able to like that Brooklyn team, that looks like the easiest team you could get in the first round right now. That's what I'd say. That's why it matters. Well, how close are they to Orlando? Could they drop? They're a half game up on Orlando right now. So certainly could drop.

They'll probably drop. The Wizards, they really need to get lucky. The Wizards have to get lucky. Brooklyn would have to go like one in seven or O and eight. And Washington would have to go six and two despite having a really hard schedule to get into a playing tournament game against Brooklyn or Orlando. So Brooklyn, in all likelihood, will be in the playoffs. but the fact is suddenly they're looking like quite an easy

out in that first round for Milwaukee, Toronto or Boston, depending on how the seating, you know, plays out for the both of them and, you know, a minor announcement here or maybe not minor, but like it's exciting personally where I'm hosting a new video series on the ringer

called the restart. Oh. It's going to be possibly a weekly video series as basketball resumes over the coming months. breaking down the game like we do here bringing on guests I talked to David Griffin last week

and you know have some stuff from him in this video that's coming out I believe on Wednesday so look out for that on the Ringer's YouTube channel anyway I bring that up this Wednesday like tomorrow yep yep it's already let's go use this green screen

and all that you know that's behind me then I bring all that up to say part of the video is just about the playing tournament and I allude to this and they're like I don't get too in depth. The videos about the Pelicans and their odds on their side of the bracket. But I allude to the fact that like for a lot of these teams, the seating doesn't matter all that much.

It just doesn't. I think for a lot of these teams, it's going to end up being like warm-up games. And that has value because these guys are going to get back in a basketball shape. But I do have concerns, man, you know, from the people I talk to in front offices. is like if their team starts slow, they just might coasts the rest of the way.

And like, I hate to harp on this, but like this is why I was so in favor of the group stage. Just the truth, the group stage, right now you have Brooklyn essentially locked into the playoffs. So Brooklyn's going to be there

for eight seating games with a depleted roster and no chance of advancing. And then they have to be there for another two weeks for a meaningless, ultimately, Let's just be honest. Nobody's going to want to watch Brooklyn versus Milwaukee.

Nobody's going to want to watch Brooklyn versus Toronto or Boston. It's going to be easy. It's going to be a four game or a five game series. And if you're talking about excitement, if you're talking about watching great basketball, I just don't think this format was the best choice. I understand why they did it. And I think there's benefits of seeing it happen. I think there's benefits of not doing something so dramatic with the group stage.

But part of me can't help but think that in the seating game stage and then in the first round, like always in the first round, we're just going to see a lot of games that aren't that interesting. And, you know, maybe that's okay because this is sort of also a preseason. You know, you're balancing the two, excitement and drama and, you know, high intensity game versus getting guys into, you know, physical shape to play basketball. It's a complicated conversation here, but from an entertainment standpoint, you know, I bet there's going to be a lot of games where it's like,

I'm not going to bother tuning in. Really? See, because I think, well, you don't feel that way with Brooklyn? Like, we just talked about,

like, their team, you know, sucking out of a bunch of guys. Okay, I know, but we set them aside. Okay. We set them aside.

Everybody that's further down than eight cares deeply about these games until they might be out of it, right? But and you have one through eight that are still really fighting for seating and seating is going to matter greatly. Like especially for those teams that don't want to be seven and have to face the clippers. Yes. Now, in the east.

And that's, I just want to interject and say that's what I allude to like in the video for like a team like Miami or Indiana. You want to avoid the bucks side of the bracket. So what I'm saying is. Or in the west is like you want, if you're OKC, you want to avoid the Lakers side of the bracket possibly. way. But for the Clippers, the two, three, the two seed, which they currently have in the three seed, the nuggets, it doesn't make that dramatic of a difference between those two for the clippers, considering the fact that like there's no real home court advantage at Disney World. If you drop from two to three or rise from three to two, it doesn't make the biggest difference in the world. I think that that's sort of where I. It could on your, it could on your first round match up though, Kev. depending on what happens at the bottom. And that could be out of your control.

Well, hey, you'd feel differently if Houston's six, wouldn't you? Sure. You know what I'm saying? Then three matters. You know what I mean?

And so I think, I think Brooklyn's really the only one. Orlando's now incentivized to win more so than they were. There already were. I know. There already were. Yeah. Yeah, but there's not,

like, they now really think, okay, we can move up. Right. And then I just think it's kind of a Brooklyn thing in terms of what's not going to matter. I think the rest of these, because there's only eight games to jockey this around, I think they will care. I think there's not going to be many games that don't matter.

I mean, I guess we're just different on that. I mean, it could play out in a way that these teams are growing hard. And I hope they are. I hope that happens. But there's also a chance that a lot of these teams start off, 0 and 2, 0 and 3, they're automatically out because there's so few games left, and then it's just kind of like coasting

the rest of the way for the final five games. And again, this is what the regular season is always like. And what they chose with this format best represents what could have happened in a condensed way in the regular season, where March and April oftentimes for a lot of teams

just feels like a drag. And like they stuck to what is most authentic to what the season already was. And I'm cool with that. That's totally fine, but I guess just part of me still can't help think there was a missed opportunity with the group stage format that we talked about before with the group round. I think it could have been pretty spectacular to see that. And besides, there's still going to be like, I'm still stoked. Like, there's still plenty of great basketball that's going to be seen.

The Western Conference race, which is what the video is primarily about is going to be awesome. I'm excited to see your Memphis Grizzlies hold off. Portland, Norland, Sacramento, San Antonio, and Phoenix, the bright future sons getting an opportunity. Tell me you saw my man Josh Jackson's tweet yesterday. I did not. What did he said? Oh, boy. No, I'm sorry.

It's an Instagram post, Josh Jackson. So Josh Jackson finally had had enough, and I've been there before. He had enough. And on his Instagram post, somebody sent to him, bro, we should have traded for Tatum or we could have. had Fox. Josh Jackson, but I loved you. You did,

but what you did for us, I just wish you were more productive. Josh Jackson's response, your entire organization is unproductive. Stop blaming 20-year-old kids for 15 years of sucking. He's not, he's not wrong. He's not wrong.

He might be my hero. He might be my hero now. I know Josh Jackson's been to hell and back. the beginning of his career and he's had his own problems off the court. But I did, I must say. He was lost in all this. The Grizzlies didn't have, like they had traded Solomon Hill and Jay Crowder. They didn't have wings.

Justice Winslow was hurt. When this whole season ended, Josh Jackson was like the leading score of the team for the last week and a half. He had really just started to feel himself and really be in blossom prior to all of this shutting down. but I did think it was funny. He said stop blaming 20-year-olds for your, for 20, 15 years of sucking. For sure.

And like, I mean, like personal responsibility. Taking accountability matters. Understood. And part of it, you know, you know, stuff that happened in this past and in Phoenix, part of that is on him. But situation matters. And we've talked about this a ton over the years. Situation, opportunity, environment, that plays such a big role in the success and failures of players.

And to your point, I will tell you that obviously when the schedule came out, I viewed this through the prism of, hey, can John Morant and then make it? I was looking for three games. Are there three? They can win. And obviously, my answer was yes. They can win three. Because if you go three and five, you got to have two teams go like seven and one to jump you and for you to not even be in a play in situation. And the truth is, most of these teams have not performed at a level where.

they've gone six and two, seven and one at any portion of the season. That's why everybody's record is below 500 that's, you know, in this spot. The Pelicans certainly, it looks like a schedule they could for sure go six and two with, you know, and obviously we'll see what happens with the Kings games, right? Like the Kings need to split with them if you're looking at it from the, from the Grizzlies trying to hold off side. But it will be fun, no way around it, right? I mean, I think that when you've got a three and a half game lead,

you just got to be able to win three or four. Like, you don't have to win five or six. You've got to be able to win three or four. And so, and the other thing is this, if I'm being fair, the last game of the season, that's the bucks. A, they'll be locked in. B, Taylor Jenkins was just the lead assistant for Budenhouser. If anybody was ever going to do you a solid,

like I'd be mad if you didn't do me a solid. Right? They're friends. You know what I mean? On the last game of the season, you got to think Bud would help his guy out. So I was happy that that was the last game, you know,

that's on the schedule because the end of it is brutal. But anyway, you're right. That end of the season. I thought the Pelicans thing was light, which is fair because the end of their schedule was light. What you're saying is kind of my point too, you know, Milwaukee, there's going to be a lot of games where they're like, yeah, yeah, let's play 25 minutes.

Play 20 minutes or don't play at all. And that might be that last game where he takes that DNP, you know, arrest. Take it off. Take it off. But again, that's what would have happened during the regular season anyway if that was the regular season finale. Yeah, you know? That's right. And the Pelicans, I thought, look, generally, I thought the NBA did a very good job replicating. It is only eight games, but replicating what you had left.

The Grizzlies had a very difficult schedule left, and their schedule is difficult in Orlando. The Pelicans had a very easy schedule left, and their schedule is very easy, as easy as it can be, when you're not taking the Knicks and the calves down there, right? I thought they did a very good job of replicating what would have happened, even though it is less games. And so looking at those schedules that came over, I just got excited looking at all those games and thinking about them. all happening. And I do think that Western Conference Playoff race could be fantastic. It could be epic. It could be epic. And

this is the value of the playing tournament. More teams have a chance. More teams, you know, have something to play for. More fans have something to root for. And if you're able to install playing tournament permanently in the future, this is the type of

atmosphere you could have every single year with more teams that aren't out of it. In a normal year, like March and April, could be like what we're going to see for these teams in the playoff bubble. And I'm excited to see how it's going to work out. You know, there's going to be a handful of games where, like, teams might not have to win or have incentive to play. But there's going to be a lot of them where it's going to feel like the playoffs.

And there's been so much focus on the Pelicans because Zion and there was already going to be people out there that said, oh, how's the NBA got to get Zion into the playoffs? What we can't. Hey, what we can't forget, well, they would like to have him there. Of course. Of course. I know. But it's silly to say, like, that's the number one, I think it's silly to say that's the number one reason.

Oh, it's not the number one reason. But they want to get a number one reason to get more teams is more money. Like, let's just be real here. Well, you know, aside from Zion. And the truth is, we're this guy like, who's getting overlooked in this is Portland. Because Portland's going to have Collins and Nirkich back. And Portland, they could look like a different team than what we got to see this season. I mean, that team was demolished by injury.

And I know they've had, you know, Erez is sitting out and whatever. But, I mean, you got Dane McCollum, and you're adding those guys that are a massive part of what made that team a Western Conference finals team last year. Portland can't be overlooked. And they have also shown the ability over the last several years to be able to go on a run, you know, and go nine and one, go eight and one. This Pelicans team, if they do it, it will be the first time they've done it. They have not shown, even when they've done it.

Even once they've gotten Zion back, they've been about a, you know, they haven't been much over 500. I will say this. And this is one of the points made in the video. This is essentially a mini camp, you know, training camp for the Pelicans to install some new stuff that they weren't able to do during the regular season when there's no practice time, no downtime. And you're integrating. Look, they had the most games missed due to injury at one point during the season. And it wasn't just Zion. It was Lonzo Ball who dealt with injuries.

It was Derek favorites who dealt with injuries. Ingram. I mean, they had a lot of guys that were coming in and out of the lineup. And this is a time where they can kind of get things set. And I look at that. I look at what Zion did in his first 19 games and think about what he can do with more chemistry and more opportunity to get into some of the stuff that they did in preseason that they weren't able to do as much during the regular season with getting him going on some cuts and handoffs going towards the rim. There's certain things like Gentry kind of left to the side after so much time away.

I look at that, and then I look at Portland's schedule. They have a lot of games against teams that have an incentive to win. Boston, Houston, Denver, Philly, Dallas. I mean, there's a lot of teams on their schedule that have reason to win games. And maybe you get the Clippers on a night in which Kauai is playing his 35 minutes or something like that to really get himself up to shape. And then Brooklyn, I mean, we just talked about how they struggle. But the fact is, is that, you know, that last game, maybe it ends up being an important one for them.

Who really knows? But you know this. But you know this. We do know this. There is a difference between playing a game and caring a lot for seeding and playing a lot because if you don't win, you're not going to get to keep playing. Oh, no doubt. You know what I'm saying? And so the, you face the Pelicans, you face the Blazers.

You're going to be up against it. I mean, I would imagine you're going to get home run after after home run after. from those teams that are because they want to be in the playoffs. And speaking of Portland, congratulations to Dame Lillard, who has certainly vaulted himself into superstardom over the last couple of years in a way that he had not even been acknowledged before because of his playoff exploits, their long run in the playoffs. He is, there's going to be three teams in the,

or three different covers of NBA 2K21. and it was announced this morning, Damien Lillard is one of them, which is massive amongst young fans. Also a 2K story that was broken by Adrian Wojianowski, Zach Lowe, and Ramona Shelburne, that one of the major parts about the NBA going to Orlando was the opportunity for them to participate in activism in a big way. And we had even talked about the Mark Spears article where one of the things he brought up that I thought was very good was changing all the stuff in two. to mimic what's going on in Orlando because you are getting in front of millions of eyeballs and kids when you do that. But they are going to have Black Lives Matter on both the sidelines of all three arenas. So it is a message that will be absolutely undeniable to anybody that is taking in any of these games.

It doesn't matter what court they're on. It doesn't matter what time of day. it doesn't matter the teams, that is going to be installed on the court, as well as players are going to be able to put a message on the back of their jersey in lieu of their last name if they want to. And so I do think that that was, it's a major story in terms of, hey, there was a level of nervousness, at least by some, in the NBA, that if we're going to be doing this, we want to be able to use this platform for good.

and to get the message out about what we care about so deeply, I mean, it seems like they are certainly going to be able to do that in two very significant ways already. And I'm sure we don't know about everything that will end up taking place. It's a good start. It can't just be this. Like Avery Bradley said in his interview with ESPN a couple of weeks ago,

it can't just be T-shirts, you know, can't just be social media posts and all that. But it's a great start that this messaging will be in your face. I was told a couple weeks back that you're not going to be able to watch an NBA game without hearing the message from players and from the league. And that is becoming more and more apparent. And my understanding is that for players,

when it comes to direct messaging on direct specific issues, that that's something, those conversations really escalate as people get to Orlando. when people are able to be in person together, you know, social distancing, you know, considering that, uh,

that's when those conversations are going to happen with like, what do we do to send a direct message that affects policy? And I'm encouraged that we're seeing the wheels turning with some of the, the things that are going to be, you know, about messaging to people. Um, I'm encouraged to see the Atlanta Hawks open up their arena,

uh, for voting in Georgia. It's going to be the big, be the biggest big, the biggest voting site in Atlanta. This stuff is really encouraging. And I'm hopeful that the player is able to get a targeted message to improve policy in America and around the world. Because that's ultimately going to be one of the big, big steps here for us as a society to make things better doing it and not just talking about.

And that's going to require a lot of collaboration with, people in power that's going to require continued strong push from us from people. And I'm hopeful. I am hopeful. I can't help but feel hopeful that we're going to come out of this year with some positive change for people around the world. And it seems like the NBA could potentially be a big part of that. Hey, Chris, before we get to today's mailbag, let's take a quick break to hear about a new podcast from the Ringer and Bikari Sellers. I'm so excited to introduce the Bucari Sellers podcast in partnership with the Ringer.

We're tackling the issues of the day through interviews with high-profile guests and conversations with a rotating panel of the country's best and leading thinkers, influencers, and writers. You know, I'm not only an attorney and a former elected official. Sometimes you see me on CNN and I'm a new author of a New York Times bestselling book, My Vanishing Country. But now we're introducing the Bacari Sellers podcast. and we're going to cover everything from the 2020 election to sports and culture to the larger movement for racial equality in the United States. We're going to have some of your favorite quarterback,

some of your favorite politicians, some of your favorite athletes, writers, singers, actors, actresses. The Bacari Sellas podcast will debut on Monday, June 29th. Listen free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Bobby Wagner is our all-store producer. All right, we are going to. to try to knock out some of the mailback questions today because we're not going to have a show later this week. And so hopefully this show is so great that when you miss the show on Friday,

you can just listen to it again. Yes. I love that idea. Or just keep viewing Kevin's video that he's putting out tomorrow millions of times. Well, not millions, because then he'll get a big head and leave me. So thousands of times, tens of times. How about hundreds of thousands of times? Hundreds. Oh, God. All right, what do we got, Bobby? Maybe with that extra time, everyone can go back and find some old takes that you guys had

and bring it back to the mailbag next week now. Are you serious? I like that idea too, Bobby. Oh, right. Go back to old pods from 2018. All right, this first question comes from Ed. Ed with two D's. At some point, you guys are going to have to have a discussion on Coach of the Year award.

Mike Boodenhulzer won it last year, and that was the second time he's won it with only eight regular season games remaining. I wanted to ask, what's your current take on this? Nick Nurse. I agree. Nick Nurse, losing Kauai Leonard and continuing to win and play at a high level, playing the amount of weird, funky defenses that they have and having it work going with zones, you know, one, two, two zones, you know, playing box and one. I mean, like, this guy, what a coach. It's amazing, like, how he had this journey to be. become the coach that he has.

You know, coaching at so many different levels, so many different places around the world. And it's all come together and make, in my opinion, was the best coach in basketball right now. And he's shown that this season. We agree. I do hope in the attempt to not be a total homer, I do think that if the Grizzlies do make the playoffs, Taylor Jenkins should get votes. He absolutely should. I mean, I've watched it firsthand, but that team was expected to win the least amount of games in the NBA.

If they become a playoff team, like the guy should get, he should get a look, but I agree with you for Nicknors. All right, here's a question from Asher. Chad Ford mentioned on his podcast the best pre-draft workout

he'd ever seen was Dame Lillard. He described the ferocity, intensity, and flat-out determination combined with skills and athleticism in this workout, caused him to jump in the draft. You were mentioned as being in attendance, Kevin. Was this the best workout you've seen pre-draft?

And if not, can you describe another memorable one? I was Damian Lillard Pre-drafts I was not Fake news Fake news I was not

Fake news I was not there I never saw I never saw Lillard That's funny The best one I ever saw Was Kevin Love

Oh Kevin Love Look They put him They put him back at the end Now Kevin Love was big When he was coming out of college But I'll never forget

They gave him They put him out At the three point line And the guy hit like 20 of 25 NBA 3s. It was unbelievable. And then, how about this? In the workout with him, these are the other guys.

Joey Dorsey who had played center at Memphis, Javall McGee, D'Andre Jordan, and there was one other guy, big guy. And they ran this drill where they threw it into you at the, like at the elbow, right? And you had to go get a bucket against a guy. And if you got a bucket, you stayed out there. And if you got stopped,

then you got in the line and the guy that got the stop then got to go on offense, right? Kevin Love went through these guys six, seven times. Every time with a different move. It was like watching damn Kevin McHale. I had never seen anything like it in my life. And they were all way bigger and more athletic than him, all of it. And he was just, I mean, in the post and then they put him out of the three point line.

I was like, this guy, this is unbelievable. I can't believe what I'm watching. Was Kevin O'Connor at the workout? He was. Kevin O'Connor was there. You know what? I wonder if Chad had said Kevin O'Connor, like the former Utah Jazz executive. Oh, that's what it was.

I don't know. I have no idea. I don't know. No, that would make sense because Weber State's in Utah, isn't it? So it's staying the reason that Kevin O'Connor from the Jazz would be there, right? I might have told the story before, but a couple years ago, I think right after I got hired by the ringer, I put in an application with the NBA to get a media credential for practices.

And when the credential came in the mail, I had a photo of Kevin O'Connor at Jazz Executive. Oh, that's great. I have it somewhere. I think it's at my apartment in LA, but yeah, pretty hilarious. You should have called around trying to make trades and crap. You know what I mean? I've always wondered, has anybody like ever called me or texted me thinking, I'm that Kevin O'Connor?

But I don't think that's ever happened. But that's your fast track to be the new woge. People accidentally texting you trying to make trades. Hey, it's Kevin from Utah. Old funny old pal. I'll watch some interviews with him and try to get his, get his voice to an impression right.

All right. What we got for the next one, Bobby? Okay, this one comes from Micah. The NBA's Disney memo rules about ping pong made me wonder, what's a game you're good at and a game you're really bad at? I'm good at Call of Duty Warzone. Does that count as a game?

Sure. Does that count? I had a... I guess a game is just something you can play with someone else, right? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I have gotten good at this game after a slow start, after years away

from playing video games and not owning a console. I'm happy with my production level now. I love using the helicopter in war zone and wiping people out like that. I had a triple kill team wipe the other day. The video to end capture,

unfortunately, I'm still pissed about that, but I'm going to put together a helicopter, highlight video at some point. And I'm good with our primary weapons as well in that game, too, and love our squad. Are you more of a Larry Nance or a Brandon Clark can call it in a way. I would say more of a Brandon Clark, more of a Brandon Clark. I'm trying to think of it.

I'd assume that the lines he's going apart is like a game that you would be able to do at like this quarantine. Ping pong. I'm good at ping pong. I dominate you at ping pong. video game wise the only thing that I've spent it in an ordinary amount of time playing is hot shots golf

or it's called everybody's golf now on PlayStation 4 it changed the name? Everybody's golf? Yeah, it's called everybody's golf but it's the same thing, hot shots golf but I've played hot shots golf since it first came out one, two, three, four, F-O-R-E

and then yeah, this everybody's golf I'm good at that So, I mean, like, that video game, I'm okay at like the 2K Maddens those. I can play them. I'm good at Madden. I've always sucked the 2K, man. Yeah. My whole life, dude.

I always have stunk. I'm okay. I'm not good, good. I'm okay. I mean, I could play. I wish we had cross-consul abilities with 2K because I'd love to face you. That would be fun. Yeah.

I'm on Xbox and you're on PS4. Is there anything else that is, uh, I mean, look, let's be honest. Those guys, they're going to be playing video games and cards. Yeah, I was going to say, are you guys good at cards? I mean, I don't play what they play. Players play Burey. They play Burey, spades, you know, mostly those. And I don't play those.

You know, I used to think I was good at chess. When I was a little kid, I used to play with my grandpa staying over his house every Wednesday afternoon. Both my parents were working. And I used to think I was good. You're not. I'm not good. I realized that in recent years. There's a lot that I didn't know.

And it really, like, it was an example to me personally, like how, like, there's certain people who are, like, the best basketball player at their high school or they're, like, their junior high or whatever, and they think they're hot. Or, like, someone's the best guitar player in their small little town. They don't realize, like, that there's a lot of people surrounding them that are much, much better or just as good.

And, like, with chess, I think I really only ever faced my grandpa in my whole life when I was a young kid and then didn't play for years and then played like online some of those games and then played someone at the, I think it was a Sloan Sports and Linux conference I faced somebody who was in tennis there and I got owned

and I'm like, I'm actually not good. I'm horrible. It's like that saying like some people are playing checkers and other people are playing chess. It's like some people are playing chess and some people are really playing chess. He is not Bobby Fisher. What else we got, Bobby?

All right, this one comes from Pearson. I think this one has an easy answer, but it's an interesting question nonetheless. Would you be more surprised if all of the next 10 MVP's are foreign-born players or if none of the next 10 MVP's are foreign-born players? So since Janus is probably going to win this year, let's just say throw out this year and start with 2021.

I'd probably be more surprised if none of them were international players. Oh, no. Come on. What? Then all of them? every single one of them for 10 years? Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, okay. If it's all, all of them, yeah, sure. I don't know, man, this is a hard question.

Well, but think about the guys. The MVP level ones that we have right now, right? Not assuming, not assuming this upcoming draft, right? You'd say, for sure, Luca, Janice, Mb. Is there anybody else that, And again, I'm doing this on the fly. Is there anybody else that is a foreign-born player that you think could win an MVP one day? No, probably not of those guys.

You listed them of the guys that are in the league right now. But it's also very hard to believe that none of them would win at least just once. But again, it's a lot more plausible that three guys don't do something than the whole rest of the league. I mean, right. Right. It's either way, either way. But like the fact is, is like, to the point of the original question, it goes to show the amount of great players in the league that there are. They can even have that conversation. And let me throw in a couple of more because I know I'll get hammered for this if I don't. Other ones, I think, again, long shots, but we got to, it will at least include them. Siakum, Yokic is another foreign-born player that you could foresee. I mean, if you could foresee, I mean, if you're not. you want the Porzingis in there. I think that's, I think, I think, I think that's the list, but if I forgot somebody,

I know I'll get jumped for it, but I mean, Gobert's not winning a MVP. Narkich isn't winning an MVP. Is there anyone coming in, Kevin? His guy, the number one pick he said is for a board in his opinion. My number one prospect? Yeah. Killian Hayes. Yeah.

Killian Hayes. I wouldn't necessarily project them as a future MVP, but a potential very good high-end player, great player for sure, Killing and Hayes in this year's draft. And I wouldn't also rule out Denny Avdia from Maccabi Tel Aviv being a really high-level player. He revised his shooting mechanics

and thus far with Maccabi-Tel-Avieve resuming play. The shot looks bad. in games, shooting better from the free throw line on a small sample as well. And that was the number one question I had with Denny. How can he shoot? And it looks good. And I did on purpose leave out your guy, Dragon Bender. I didn't include him. Thank you. I know. Thank you for making me for that. Hey, I need to give you a quick congratulations though. Unbelievable last 48 hours for Justin Anderson Island. Yes, you're right. We did mention he's back. He's back. He's back. I saw that he got signed. oh, Justin Anderson Island

back open for business. Everything else in the world shut down. We're going to be shutting down. Justin Anderson Island opened up for business. Yeah. And it's just you and him and you can both wear masks. That's okay. We can easily socially distance.

All right, Bobby, what's next? All right, Yaron wants to know which player from the last four drafts who hasn't broken through yet might do it next season. Is there a guy you're still holding out hope for? maybe not Justin Anderson, but somebody else. Jeez. Last four drafts.

You mentioned Jackson earlier. That's one guy who comes by definitely for you, right, Chris? I don't think that his destiny is to be a star. You know what I'm saying? Which is what you would expect from the third pick in the draft. But could he have a longer, more productive career than it appeared he was going to have while he's playing in the G League in Mississippi six months ago, yes. Right.

I think he could, I think he could straighten that and then have a career. You know what I mean? How about Denzel Valentine? Oh, that's a good one. Started his career really struggling, but then he had an injury when he had a good second year with the Bulls. I feel like there's still something there with the opportunities he gets, like a lot of garbage time, but occasionally in competitive moments of games,

he's looked better this season. I think there's something there. He was a late bloomer in Michigan State, a late bloomer in high school, and maybe he'll be a late bloomer in the NBA too. I still like his game. I had, you know, I love Malik Beasley, and he got on a new team,

and he was killing it for the T-wolves, right? He finally got in the opportunity. I mean, he was just in a, you know, I don't think he was at a bad spot for his development. I do think he was at a bad spot in terms of getting court time, because he was on a team that already had, they already had Gary Harris and they already had Jamal Murray as guys

that I know that they could get a lot of his big minute games were when somebody was injured and he always performed well generally for Denver and then struggled at the beginning of this season but then he was he was lightened it up for Minnesota before this thing got shut down so I mean I've still got I've still got Malik Beasley stock I think that he could be Oh no doubt yeah

But I mean, I could see him breaking out and becoming a big time player. I like I like him quite a bit. So Malik Beasley comes to my mind. Mo Bamba, another one for me. I really like Bamba in the draft. I overrated him a little bit by ranking him ahead of your guy, Jaron Jackson. But what's your face? Chris's face right now is looking out the window.

Either he hears something or he's just like wondering what I'm saying. I'm not totally sure right now. Yeah, he looks very disappointed and very confused. Okay, good. Then I'm going to hit you with another one. And he may break out when they're in Orlando, but I still have every bit of my stock. I have taken heat for it, but I know that there are going to be people that come back and apologize to me greatly.

In fact, they are going to be groveling. But the answer is Marvin Bagley. He's gotten the first two seasons ruined by injury. When he has played, he's been very good. and he hasn't gotten a lot of minutes. He has gotten much less, many less minutes in his beard. Let's be careful with very good.

Let's be careful here. Marvin Bagley will be an all-star, Kevin. Yeah. Okay, but let's be careful with very good when he's been playing. He has not been very good. Yes, he has. He's been a sieve on the defensive end of the floor. Oh, God.

He's not scored efficiently at all. Good grief. More turnovers than assists. Like, let's be careful here. I never said Obama's been very good. Bomba has struggled, but he's also, like you mentioned, situation, been sharing minutes with Vucevich and Kim Birch and Aaron Gordon, a bunch of guys like Markell Fultz

who can't space the floor. Bomba should be a rim running five, a big body who protects the rim, who rolls to the rim, who picks and pops for threes, he has not gotten that opportunity to do that in Orlando. And despite that, he's done okay this season. There's been, you know, effort problems here and there, but it's been solid in 15 minutes for game.

Solid. Next. I'll take. Mo Bamba. All right. Here's a good follow up. Marvin Bagley. Marvin Bagley.

Here's a good follow up from Josh. In your opinion, who is the most underachieving NBA player of all time? Jeff Green. Hey, you like, no time? Like, you had an immediate answer.

Within two seconds? Yeah, I mean, I don't think anything else is going to come to mind after thinking more about it. I'm sure there's 20. Jeez. I mean, that seems like something that take a bit of thought. Michael Beasley, is that another one? I was about to say Mobompa. Uh-oh.

At a couple of years, we might be saying Marvin Bagley. We'll see. Underachieving. So it has to be somebody that I really thought either was awesome or was going. to be awesome that just never, never got there. Yeah, it didn't really get hurt, you know. Yeah, because the hurt thing is, you got to, yeah, you got to achieve. It's just bad luck.

Yeah, you got to give them a, you got to give them a little bit of a break if they got hurt. That's not necessarily fair. So I got to think of somebody I thought was going to be really, really good, but then just didn't end up being really, really good. Like an Eddie Curry, maybe, somebody like him. I mean, Eddie Curry was, it's a weird spot because he was, he was coming out of high school. And so usually my strong opinions at that, like back then, it would have been about guys that I'd seen, like college guys that I ended up seeing. And then it just didn't end up panning out for them.

So somebody that was like somebody I saw in college and I thought they were going to be. really good, but then it just, it just didn't take for whatever reason. I got another one. What about like a guy who was a good player, but you saw the talent to be a great or an amazing player, like a Stefan Marbury, you know, for a long list of reasons, you know, he never reached that point. But Marbury is another guy who comes to mind that like maybe he could have been more. If he were a bit different personality-wise and if the situations had been.

a bit different for him as well. I think that's probably fair. I mean, he, look, he made more money losing more games than anyone in NBA history. That's true. I mean, you can look up the article. He made more money and lost more games than anyone ever. It's truly unbelievable. I mean, and he made an absolute fortune.

He just played on losing team after losing team after losing team. Oh, I'll give you one. OJ Mayo 100%. That's a good one. And look, I was there as rookie year. He averaged over, like, he averts like 20 points a game and go look at the percentages.

The percentages were great. It wasn't like it was inefficient. I thought he was on his way to start him, for sure. And not only did it not go the right way, he ended up, you know, out of the league. You know, he played the year in Dallas, and then he went and played in Milwaukee. He was gone after his,

his first contract, first four years out of Memphis, even though he was part of winning his last year on the team. But I would say, yes, I would say him. I mean, and they tried to trade him. They tried to trade him before he was ever gone. Do you want to hear the craziest story? Here's a good one. Because I don't think people generally know this. So it's the trade deadline of, I think, his last year here, I think. So at that point, they probably know we're not keeping him in the offseason. They trade him. I'm doing a show on the radio and I get the text. He's been traded. He got traded for Josh McRoberts and the Indiana pick. Okay. So he gets traded. So it's all reported. Straight. He's done. Right? They don't get the fact. They send the facts in at like

301, 302. The fax doesn't get in on time. So though it's all reported, it's everywhere. McRoberts in the pick for O.J. Mayo. They go and they have to tell O.J. Mayo, actually, he hasn't been traded. So because they got, it was just incompetence. They got all of the, like that, they got Chris Wallace and the team. They got everybody, you know, the trades out there. They're making the trade.

They turn the facts in late. So the trade gets nixed by the NBA. Now, you want to hear the craziest part of this? story. Fast forward. It was Josh McRoberts in a pick, right? That's what I told you. For OJ Mayo,

guess who the pick was? Kauai Leonard. It was the 15th pick in the draft. Oh. That's true. That was the pick. The 15th pick of the draft. You believe that?

Well, I would have lost my mind for them trading O.J. for Josh McRoberts in a pick. I was mad. I was mad about that. and then in retrospect you look at it you're like damn man I'd rather have John McRoberts in a pick if I didn't know it was going to be Kawhi Leonard they wouldn't have taken

Kawhi Leonard anyway whatever they didn't make one you never know you never know but probably not they didn't make a good draft pick between Mike Conley and John Moran it was over a decade it was over a decade they didn't have a player

play past his first contract from Mike Conley to John Moran. Look it up. It's ridiculous. Ridiculous. But yeah, that was that pick. It's insane.

But OJ's my answer. I thought OJ was on the track. I just saw somebody sent me a video of him last week. He's playing again. I like OJ, too. I really liked OJ Mayo. Scoring talent. I mean,

it's highly talented high school prospect. I know. Eventually, when he got to the NBA, I'm like, this guy's going to be really good for a long time. It's unfortunate, man. All right. Give us a couple more, Bobby. All right. Let's do just this one last one.

All right. This one comes from Jack. My question is, why do you think that people are making a really big deal about Kauai winning three championships with three teams like it's a huge accomplishment, which, to be fair, it is. But nobody mentions that with LeBron. If he wins with the Lakers, it's three championships with three teams too. Is it more impressive since Kauai only went to Toronto for one year?

No, I mentioned that all the time. Personally, I don't know. I can't speak for anybody else. You know, I understand the argument when people say it's more impressive. You know, I believe it was Jackie McMullen said this on the jump, that it's more impressive for Michael Jordan to do it with the same team and the merit of that he did than to do it with three different teams. I get it, but I disagree in the sense that whether it's LeBron or whether it's Kauai,

if you're able to do it with different organizations, drastically different supporting cast. And in the case of LeBron, basketball has changed so much the last, you know, 10 plus years, if you're able to do it against different styles of play, that to me is a remarkable, remarkable achievement for any player if they're able to do it

considering those circumstances, Kauai or LeBron. I would say the reason it's more impressive and this is where you get pot for being the best guy, the most famous guy, right? Is that nobody thought that Kauai could win the title in Toronto.

Nobody. Nobody thought that was going to happen. last year, especially against the Warriors. Nobody saw that coming, right? That he was going to be the best guy on a title team. He went to Toronto and he won the title. And the Clippers are one of the favorites, but certainly LeBron is the favorite, right?

So, Kauai would have done it in three circumstances in which he was not supposed to have done it. And I think that's why it's viewed differently, right? I mean, that's the problem with being the best guy, right? Is anything other than you winning the whole thing is, you know, you didn't live up the expectation. Whereas Kauai has gotten, he gets the benefit of his,

he will have won as an underdog every time, unless, of course, I think they'd be an underdog to Milwaukee. I think they would. So he's won as an underdog, you know, when he's done it. Big underdog, big. underdog. So I think that's why it's viewed differently. LeBron's never been an underdog. I guess he was with the Warriors.

The year, certainly, once they came back to 3-1. But I don't know. I think that's the difference. And people don't poke holes in Kauai like they do LeBron. Of course. Right? I think that's my answer. It's interesting to think about what might have happened if LeBron came back to Cleveland on a one-year deal last year because the Warriors guys got hurt. So he would have just, in theory, had to go through Toronto to make.

it to the finals. If you think about if they might have got hurt in the finals, I think LeBron and Cleveland definitely could have handled just, you know, just one of those warrior stars. I think that's probably true. Oh, well. Kevin, Bobby, you guys, uh, enjoy this week. Enjoy your holiday weekend. And then we were going to talk to everybody next Tuesday. You dig what you're hearing. Go give you some rating reviews. Five stars. Five stars really helps. And we will talk to you next week.