The Ringer NBA Show - Howard Beck Joins 'Real Ones,' Damian Lillard’s Bucks Preseason Debut, and What Wemby’s Hybrid Play Style Means for the NBA Big Man | Real Ones

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

Logan and Raja are joined by The Ringer’s Howard Beck to give their first impressions of Damian Lillard’s Milwaukee Bucks preseason debut and discuss why building on-court chemistry with Giannis Antetokounmpo is so important (2:00). Along the way, the guys discuss this new era of star player empowerment and how it’s impacting the rest of the league. Later, they talk about the arrival of San Antonio Spurs rookie phenom Victor Wembanyama and what his hybrid play style means for the NBA big man (37:00). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may find this hard to believe, but 60 songs that explain the 90s. America's favorite poorly named music podcast is back. With 30 more songs than 120 songs total. I'm your host, Rob Harvilla, here to bring you more shrewd musical analysis, poignant nostalgic reveries, crude personal anecdotes, and rad special guests, all with even less restraint than usual. Join us once more on 60 Saws That Explain the 90s every Wednesday on Spotify.

What's popping? Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Real ones. Roger. I usually say we have a special guest and you know I'm guessing. We really have a special guest,

a guest host, a big announcement for the real ones contingency as a staff record label and a motherfucking crew. We have our newest Ringer MBA staff writer. You know him from New York Times.

You know them from Bleacher Report. You know them from the LA Daily News. Some of y'all might even know him from UC Davis, okay? But he's a friend. He was a friend of the show. Now he's family of the show. You will now hear him every Mondays with real ones. Howard!

Mother fucking bat! Is in the building. Howard, how are you doing, bud? What's up, guys? Great to see you. Thank you for the UC Davis shoutout. Hashtag goags. Love it.

No. Great to be here. Happy to see you. A little under the weather this morning, but I'm going to do my best not to sneeze, sniffle, gag, cough, or otherwise gross people out. It's not COVID, so that's good. But just good to see it.

Well, welcome to the family, Howard. Logan may know this about me. He may not. I think it was Logan. I'm that dude, though, like, even though we're just kind of like, you know, via internet right now, like I get really like, if you see my base like this, it's because I ain't trying to catch no cold.

And it really don't matter. Like, I just, it's weird like that. I'll be on the phone with people. People are sick on the phone and my face on the other end is like, oh, no. You know you can't get this through Zoom, right? Yeah. I'm aware. Literally a thousand miles or something apart.

This is a weird little thing with me, dude. So if you see my face like that, don't be offended. So are you going to do that every time he talks on the podcast this morning? If he sneezes, I'm warning you. I'm going to. Okay. All right. For sure.

I'll do my best not to gross you out, Roger. Okay. All right. We'll figure it out. This is the first of many. We're working out the kinks here. Okay. Speaking of working out the kinks. Let's get to the shits. Okay. I was up in sack last night. I was trying to figure out some topics and just figure out what we were going to talk about. If you look in the producer only chat, I was, I think I said, I don't know what to talk about it. Then five minutes later, I watched highlights of this game. And I was like, I want to talk about this game. And that game is. is the Lakers Bucks matchup last night, where we got to see the debut of the duo that is Yannis Adedekumbo and Oakland's own Dame Lillard. And it went off. It was pretty good. Dame had 14 points.

It was three of 10 shooting. It was fine. Janus had 16 points and 18 rebounds. That is irrelevant, though, because the duo is intact and they were gushing about each other after the game. Janus is saying, Dame is a little me. Janice is just raving on Dame's performance and what the possibilities are. I'll start with Roger the basketball guy.

Then I'll go into the analytics with Howard. But Roger, what did you think of the debut between those two guys? Great. I mean, what do you want to mean? Who cares? In terms of like, I mean, this is just the old basketball player in me.

I mean, it doesn't matter. I learned this the hard way. I've told that. story before, like playing Michael Jordan at Penn State, having 21 with my grandma in attendance, thinking I was just like about to take the league by storm. And nobody had mentioned to me that none of those dudes really play like that in preseason. So I saw him two weeks later and I couldn't even dribble across half court. You know what I mean? And they had me on the bench. So I only say that to say that like, it's dope. Like it's good. You rather it go off well than not go off well.

But the reality is everything's great right now. You know, like it's still a honeymoon phase. Things are going well. And when things are going well, it's easy. I don't anticipate that it would get weird if things don't go well, but that's when you see how these relationships are going to work, right? When you come across that first speed bump, when you come across that first end game situation where there's a little bit of confusion as to who's going to have the ball, or there's a little, you know, wonkiness in the offense, like that's when we're going to see, you know, exactly what this relationship, you know, looks like. So it was cool that it went off. Like, and I think they'll compliment each other, but we won't really know until we get into this a little bit.

We're first surprised as Howard. Yeah, I mean, preseason, right? And preseason's really short now, too. Like when Rajah was playing in the league and you had seven or eight preseason games, a new pairing like this would get probably at least half those games. And you'd see some ramp up. And I think all of us on the outside would get a better feel for like, how is the chemistry starting to take hold or not? And I'm what are the bumps? This NBA with these super short preseason and with them having held Dame out initially, all right, he made his debut yesterday and a week from tomorrow is opening night.

I don't think we're really going to know. Listen, I think it's safe for us all to assume as we have from the moment the trade happened. This is going to be pretty incredible. This is going to be one of the best, if not potentially the best one-to-punch in the league. And they're going to be amazing. But as Raja notes, there's going to be bumps and you won't get to the bumps. We won't see where the difficulties are, the challenges are, until they're actually playing competitive games, real games, regular season games,

and against a full lineup, right? Like, LeBron James, not playing yet. So it wasn't the full Laker lineup. Austin Reeves, for what it's worth, not playing. Like, it's not, this wasn't the thing. We'll see the thing soon. It'll be another week. But look, it's a fun starting point.

You can see some of the possibilities. Day missed a bunch of shots. Those are shots he's mostly going to make. They are going to be potentially ungoortable. They can both handle in the pick and roll. They can screen for each other. There's a lot you can do. And then everything else is just going to be like,

how does the supporting cast hold up? But yeah, it's a fine start for all the qualifications that we should put on it. What are you looking for, Ra, and when it comes to a preseason game, like this of this magazine, I'm talking about like two stars, right, where they're trying to kind of figure out each other's orbit and how they can fit into each other's orbit. I know we've talked about pre, this isn't the first time we've talked about preseason basketball, but like how do you gauge success early on when two teammates of that ilk are trying to figure

each other out? What positives do you look for? How do you gauge a performance and a game? game that doesn't matter. Yeah, it's really difficult. First and foremost, we leave that game healthy and intact. I mean, that's of the utmost importance, right? Like, you don't want any kind of set back to one or the other, you know, because of some

kind of nagging injury that starts in a preseason. So that would be the first thing. But in terms of on the court and actually, you know, executing, I guess, you know, when when you're dealing with Dame and Janus and these two different. kind of skill sets in different positions. Like you want to see that, that, you know, to whatever degree we can because we're not showing, you know, a variety of stuff usually in the, in the preseason. We're, you know, we're just keeping it basic.

We'd like to, we'd like to see that they compliment each other. The Pick and Roll does work, that they do have a feel of where to be when the other one wants to get into his bag, like, or, or, you know, how I can play off of this guy. I'm not really used to playing off of a guy of that caliber. Like, how do I, how do I kind of get in? And again, we won't be playing the other teams necessarily full lineup. And they're not doing things schematically that are too complicated either. So this is very superficial, right?

This is like, I mean, I hate to say pickup game. But it is kind of like, hey, man, let's drop these two in and see if they can kind of figure out how to be around each other. And if that looks like it's got some legs. And so with those two, I think it's naturally like an easier thing. Because when you're dealing with two guards or two ball dominant wings, you know, those are areas where people are kind of of infringing on each other's territory a little bit. And so I would say in those relationships, I'm looking for body language and stuff like that a little bit more.

But I think these two organically, because of where they are on the floor a lot, can figure it out. But not a lot, Logan. We want to get out of their healthy and just want to see that some of the things that we think, maybe pick and roll and spacing and understanding what the other person wants to do,

see if those things are there and starting to take shape. One of the bigger takeaways, obviously we saw the game itself and it was very much a pickup game environment. But I couldn't help but think about like now that the dust is settled with Dame and the trade and where he wanted to go versus where he went. I couldn't help but think about the balance of power in the NBA behind the scenes, right? Where we haven't talked much about this at a minute, but it seems like when I look at this duo, I'm like, man, Joe Cronin kind of saved Lillard from himself. He gave him with a generational piece.

Like, how do you guys, I'll start with Howard, as we're getting into the new TV deal, and we're probably on the owner's side, probably going to get at least more power on their side when it comes to, you know, trades and holds out some things like that. But is this trade, Howard, it's very early, but is this trade just kind of a litmus test to, hey, man, it's not so bad when. And we have a competent GM who can get you to where you want to. It might not necessarily be where you want to go, but it is a good deal for both sides. Nonetheless, are we going to get to that at least how the public sees it? Because ever since the decision has happened, we have put at least the spotlight has been on player empowerment and player things. Do you think that we will have a bit more of a – this will show why a bit more of a balance is necessary when we're thinking about transactions and getting people traded or something?

to other teams? We've seen like every version of it in the last, you know, decade plus since the decision, right? And the decision was about free agency, right? LeBron did the thing that nobody ever used to do, which was I'm going to leave the team that drafted me and that I've spent my whole career with so far. I have this option and I'm taking it.

And that was considered a shattering at the time. And then people got used to that, right? More or less. I don't think people are as freaked out by the idea that a player wants to control his own destiny and pick his team in free agency. But then we got to the forced trade era, which is like an extension of or a mutation of the superstar empowerment trend. So now it's guys trying to force their way out with years left.

Initially, it was just like a year left. Paul George told Indiana years ago, hey, man, I'm going to leave in a year. And everybody knew he wanted to go home to L.A. And it was the courtesy call. trade me before you lose me for nothing. But he ended up in Oklahoma, not where he intended to be, enjoyed it enough that he signed an extension,

and then a year later decided to ask out anyway, but weird situation there, the Thunder were ready to start. So that one's got its own stuff going on. In terms of like forced trades, though, I do think there's a sense around the league, and I wrote about this for the Ringer week and a half or so ago

around the time right after the dame trade, that it felt, to a lot of teams to front offices and ownership, like things had veered too far in the other direction in terms of players just forcing their way out left and right. The number of forced trades and superstar demands in the last five years alone probably eclipses the previous 30 years combined. And now granted, James Harden accounts for about half of those. But Harden three times, Durant, Kyrie a couple times. Obviously the Paul George, what I alluded to, Kauai Leonard, from San Antonio, Toronto.

And they've taken various forms, right? There's the version where you say, hey, I want to go. Here's a variety of teams. Here's three or four teams that I'd like to go to. And you give the team and the ability to create a marketplace and some competition so they can get the best deal and send you one of the places you want to go. What Dame and his camp were doing early this summer was saying, we won out with four years left, and there's only one place we want to go.

and like that's why it took so long because the Blazers initially had the market just completely eliminated it was cut out from under them but yeah to your point Logan in the end the Blazers got a really good deal the payoff that they felt that they needed for an all-time player that Dame landed with a two-time MVP and the best teammate he's ever had like would he been happier in Miami on some level maybe sure was he going to have a better chance of of contending for titles with Jimmy and Bam, then with Janus. People can debate that,

but this idea that anybody did him wrong or was a spite trade and all this, that's crazy talk. The guy landed with the best teammate he's ever had and one of the best players who's ever played, and they should be an absolute seamless fit. So I don't know what that's going to mean for the next one of these, but we know there will be more.

I don't know. Personally, with no stake in any of this, My hope would always be that the players and their agents and the teams would work together when it's time to part ways, right? If you want to force your way out, it's time to go. Sure, that's fine. Relationships get fried sometimes. But like the one team and one team only demand, I think is problematic for the league. We see the stars demanding these trades and we see how that goes and we're probably going to see the ramifications of that in the next CBA. but what does that do for the

for the guys that are the middle class of the NBA? They don't necessarily have this leverage and all this power and things like that. Does there a residual effect to all of these different demands and these different types of what we've seen over the last few years from star players?

How does that affect the middle class and all the other players that don't necessarily have those opportunities to be able to do that? Well, I mean, there are a lot of ramifications, but let's just start with like, you know, generally speaking, the star when it's time for reprimanding or punishment, they typically aren't the ones that receive it the worst, right?

Like, they're not the easiest ones to get a hold of. So, like, when I played, like, it was a lot easier to tech me up, let's say, or tech up one of my middle class brethren than it was to go out there and hit Steve Nash or Dirk or somebody. Like, that's just facts. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, you can watch that on TV. So we'll start there. Like that, that doesn't just happen in game.

That happens behind closed doors too. And then where I really think it affects like that middle class of player that may not be able to leverage his way in or out of a situation is like my situation in Utah that I talk about a lot. And why I chose to go back to Utah, you know, at the end of my career was twofold. Like I was looking for financial security, but I was also looking for a good, like, well-run organization with structure that was going to be. in the playoffs and have a chance to win. So I say that because, you know, our roster was constructed, like, really soundly it looked like with Darren and, you know, Al Jefferson and you had Paul Millsap and Andre Carolinko. Like, there were a lot, memidal core.

There were a lot of good pieces there. And when Darren, although he didn't force his way out, I guess, but like it was kind of like a mutual thing. Like he wasn't happy and Jerry wasn't happy. And the Utah pulled the trigger on it, right? So now players like myself and other guys in Utah that went there for the opportunity, like we're, that's not there anymore. That turned into dysfunction very quickly, right?

Because we had lost our best player. We were all sitting there like I had just signed there. It got really ugly. And then it was at a domino effect. And so while Darren didn't like demand the trade, I guess my point would be when, when players like myself are in situations and signing in situations, you know, not just for the money, but for opportunities that that team may present. us and a star player is like, look, I've had it, I'm out, and he demands that trade and the whole

landscape kind of shifts underneath your feet, you could be standing there on some real unsteady ground like I was. And, you know, in retrospect, I wasn't the best version of myself, but I was in a really shitty situation and it brought a shitty side of me out late in my career, and that probably cost me a couple years on the end of my career. So, like, there are a lot of ramifications for that middle class of players sitting around looking at, you know, these moves. Like, damn, dog, I understand. Like, we get it. We're all, you know, family and we're in this brotherhood. And we want everyone to to maximize earning potential and have their best careers possible. But at the same time, I'm sitting here in a jacked up situation.

Now you, now you, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, don't get me wrong. Sorry, because it wasn't a Darren thing. But I only used. that experience, you know, to kind of shed some light on what happens when a player of his ilk is removed from a team like that and how it could go sideways real quick. And it brings up this point, though, Raja, which is one that gets lost a lot. I'm glad Logan brought this up, and I'm glad you brought to bear your own experience here, which is that while a lot of folks, and look, I'm among them, have championed the idea, have celebrated the idea of player empowerment over the last 10 to 13 years since the decision.

Yes, players should have some agency over their lives and careers. And there are a lot of situations in the NBA where you don't, right? You don't pick the team when you get drafted. They pick you because of the way rookie contracts are structured and the first extension is structured. It's hard to leave any time before your first six or seven years are up. So there's a lot of ways in which even in this era, you're kind of tied to a team whether you want to be there or not for a while. But I want to say this. Well, we can all sit here and say, it's great that players have taken more authority over their careers, that LeBron did what he did in 2010 and then subsequently multiple times after that.

Forced trades and everything. Like, there's a, there's another side of this. One is, it's the super, it's not really player empowerment. It's superstar empowerment. It's 20 guys who could force the trade. The Raja bells of the NBA today are not the ones forcing the trade. But on top of that, to Rajah's other piece of this, you choose a team sometimes as a mid-level player or a minimum player based on like, I want to play with that guy.

Then that guy forces his way out and you're abandoned. Where's the player empowerment for that player? There is none. The role players are just stuck. Also, not for nothing, when a Damian Lillard or a Kyrie Irving or a Kevin Durant say, I want out and they get their way. We all clap and say, okay, cool. You deserve the right to do that.

Guess what? There's a bunch of guys going back the other direction who didn't sign up for it. And like, Raj's like a nod in his head here. Like that's the thing. Like we can't pretend that this is just an unmitigated success for players and the idea of player empowerment. Because it's only for some of them. It's not for all players. In fact, it's not for most of them.

It's for the superstars. Yeah, Boris Dio and I laugh all the time because we left, we left Phoenix together. and both of us blame the other one because we both blame each other and like hey thanks for getting me fucking traded to charlotte right because it was a situation kind of like that like it wasn't going to be there were a few pieces that had to be moved to make some of that contract work and and both of us were looking at each other like did you like damn it um and so yeah it's it's a weird thing the last piece of that that i put on there how it is like sometimes and you probably know this like there are guys that'll be in a situation where they couldn't necessarily

command what they wanted this time around a block and free agency. And so you're looking for a landscape that's going to allow you to really show off what you can do in a way that's going to get you back to the bargain and table with a little bit more leverage. See if you can get another contract out of it. And you could be on one of those teams. And then all of a sudden with with a major move and someone asking and trading, you know, asking to be traded and all these dominoes moving, moving, that landscape changes on you in a way where you're not going to have that opportunity. anymore. Like this was a this was a place with no young star that had to get off. You, you were going there as a, as a five year, six year guy to get some buckets and show everybody you can still do it. And now this piece comes back to the organization that you didn't see coming and he's going to get all the shots. And you're like, well, fuck, now there's no platform for me to get back. You know, there's a lot of moving parts in that. When you talk about, when both of you guys talked about just like it's player empowerment for stars, it's triggering. But like also when you think about, how just even the actions of the MBPA over the years, right?

You have a leadership where you have stars, right, on there. And not now as much anymore. Like, you do have a little bit more rank and file. But, like, there was a time where Chris Paul basically just negotiated for his next contract in the CBA. That happened, right? And you have the, you have these instances where stars. And this happens not only just in the NBA, but in other forms of collective bargaining, where the high performers who are on the board or whatever or the vice presidents are the ones that are looking out for themselves.

Raja, is that what we need to be where we have is how much of the, can the MPPA even just have a little bit of share of blaming this? And how important is it for in a union where you do have both stars and rank and file to make sure you have all of your priorities met? Because that is a big thing where you have LeBron James as a VP and you also have. Chris Paul as a VP, it's going to be natural that they go out for their interests overall because that's just, that's the game. Yeah, I mean, that's, I think that's for the most part human nature when you get a bunch of guys in one, you know, tax bracket, so to speak, amongst NBA players, you know, doing most of the bargaining or looking out for the collective, right? So it is important that you get, you know, a sampling from the, from the entire community, guys making, you know,

mid-level to journeyman, and it is really important that everyone be represented in that way. I would go the last time there was a collective bargain agreement. I think I was still in the league. That was the last time, and we had a mini lockout. I forget what year that was. We locked out for a while. Yeah, that's when I was going to Utah. And I'd be at those meetings.

And I was always fascinated because I'd see those guys sitting up on the stage and doing all the talking. And I'd be, you know, in the seats out there listening to dudes. like myself, M-Fing. I just want to play. I need to, you know, like there was a, what comes out of those, you know, isn't while it's voted on, right? And so like the majority is going to win. Like, there are a lot of dudes that are sitting on the opposite side of a lot of those opinions and not sharing the exact same sentiment. And so, you know, I'm not involved in it now. Like, if they're more, if they're more brothers like myself or and guys like that, I think that have a voice, I think that's really important. But I just like this, you know, I say this all the time.

Like with any type of power that you have and like, like, you have to wield it responsibly. You can't just be like, yo, I got this. So I'm going to act a fool with it. Or there's going to be some sort of adverse like reaction to it. And like that that's the thing. Like they as a collective, they have to hold themselves just a little like fellas. If it's, if this is a situation that is just ugly as hell, you've been there, you've been a good soldier. You tried to work it out.

Listen, I don't think anybody's sitting there saying, hey, you should be. like this is your sentence. You've got to finish your career in this place. That's dysfunctional. Can't get it right. You've been there and you played great. You've been an All-Star for seven years. And it's, yeah, you're going to just live out your days there.

No one's saying that. But like, I use some of these. I ain't going to say no names again. But if you just force your damn way somewhere, got everything you wanted, got there. And within a year, you talk about leaving and forcing your way out again. Like, we need you to be more responsible than that. You're making us look bad. You've been subbing James Hardin for a while now, right?

I'll be curious if those conversations actually happen, right? Like, how often are role players, depending on their standing? Like, that's a very broad description role player. There's, there's, you know, various subcategories within there. But how often is somebody saying to a James Hardin, dude, you keep doing this and it's now impacting me? How often is someone saying to Kyrie or to Kevin Durant or anybody who's done this? I'm going to guess that those conversations don't happen. Is PJ Tucker telling James Harding like, bro, come on, you got to help a brother out.

I'm coming to all these teams. Come hold me down. You know, the interesting part of that is the answer is probably no, right? Because, like, I'm hoping that, like, if I'm cool enough with said star, like, you could get jobs in this league because that star likes playing with you and he trusts you. Do you know what I mean? So, like, you know, again, this is self-preservation. So dudes, yeah, that's a hard conversation to have, right? Because James likes me.

I play well with James. Like, we've played on a lot of teams and won a lot of games. And I provide, like, a service that's integral to a James Hardin team being successful. And I don't agree with what he's doing. But, man, if he goes to X, Y, and Z, I'm pretty sure I'm on that short list of people that that he might champion for to be on that team. Like, I'm probably not saying anything about that. You guys brought up the 2011 lockout.

And we literally have two people on opposite sides of the spectrum that were a part of that lockout. I'm going to start with Howard. What was that like covering that lockout in New York? That was when you became What Up Beck. What Up Beck fame. But what was it like being around there in that team? And what were your observations? And I'll go to Roz and see what his was.

But how did you feel about that specific lockout? And what were the ramifications of that? I just want to say, first of all, we couldn't have been on opposite sides because I did not actually have. the ability to negotiate anything in all this. Players and owners, they're negotiating. They're fighting over like literally billions of dollars. All of us like low wage scrubs are sitting in hotel lobbies. Well, who was in the room versus who was outside of the room?

Yes. That is a certain kind of opposite for sure. Yes. If only I could have negotiated my own cut. That, I mean, listen, as a reporter, that lockout was wild because it was the longest in NBA history. and we were spending a lot of time through September, October, November, just sitting on sidewalks and waiting out, you know, in hotel lobbies and just hoping something breaks through. And, you know, and you're feeling it from the fans side of it, too. That's the early days of Twitter.

So the other piece of that was we were hearing in real time for people, even in like two in the morning when we're having these stakeouts from fans who were like, tell these guys to get their shit together. Like, we want basketball. So that was a different element. But like in terms of the actual negotiation, it's interesting. I wonder how, Raja, how you'd feel about this now versus at the time. At the time, the big thing that happened was at the end of it all, the players went from getting 57% of BRI, basketball-related income, 57%, which was a pretty high number and, you know, worth obviously billions of dollars. But 57% became more or less 50%. And at the time, it was like, this is hundreds of millions per year that the players are, quote, unquote, sacrificing or giving up or losing, however you want to label it.

The league's standpoint or stance at that time was, listen, you're going to get a smaller percentage of a bigger pie and the league's going to grow astronomically. We're all going to benefit ultimately. And the math bears that out now, right? Like we are 12 years later and league revenues have absolutely skyrocketed. League minimums are now like what is like the league minimum is like, I don't know what, a million, two million something. The mid-level exception, which once upon a time was like a couple million, that it was four million, five million.

The middle-level exceptions now like, what, over nine. Max, we're looking at Roger's face. Roz's ready to come back. Ross is like, yo, Miami, Eric's bolsterer, yo, hold me down really quick. Give me a 10 day. people like people want to relitigate it they could and say well they still should have had to give up as much as they did and they'd be earning even more and sure yeah of course like they can't argue otherwise but um it's worked out pretty well for everybody whether it's justified or not as a

whole other argument but like the players as a matter of of just earnings it's it's gone the way that the league said back then which is smaller percentage bigger pie the pie has gotten freaking huge and everybody's earning a shit ton and max salary are now like guys are making 40 million, 50 million a year. It's incredible. And it's benefiting the lower end too. I think the bigger curiosity now, after the most reason CBA is concerns that all these new restrictions, second apron and everything, are going to maybe squeeze the middle

to where you're going to have this like just extreme stratification where everybody's either making the max or they're making just a little over the minimum and you're not going to have as much in the middle. I don't think we're going to get the answer. answer to that for, you know, a few years here. It usually takes a while to just to see how these things kind of take hold. Yeah, well, I mean, at the point where I was in my career, you know, I was, I was more focused on trying to get back. Like, I knew I wasn't going to partake in any of what is transpiring now, right? Like, I wasn't going to be around long enough. At that point, I mean,

it was locking into my last probably multi-year deal. And then I was maybe going to be a minimum guy if I was able to eke a couple more years out at the end. So, you know, I was trying to get back on the court. I do think it has played out in a way that players have to be. I mean, you know, you look at some of the contracts now, and I could for them, right? There's always going to be someone sitting on this side of the microphone or sitting at home looking at a player that's playing, you know, right now saying, damn, if he can make that, what would I have made? Like, someone was doing that to me when I played, right?

So like, but if you're a player and you're reaping the benefits of what was collectively bargained back then, you got to be happy. It has played out great. I do think that, you know, it correct me if I'm wrong, but like that, that the player empowerment, like the, the forcing of a club's hand was affected by that collective bargaining agreement. And that's one of the things I think I don't think ownership necessarily saw what some of what some of that language was going. to allow players to do when they got in deals like that, right? And I think that's, you know, we've talked about it. I've said it before. I think that's one of the things that they'll have to, when the time's right, fight to get back. But I was just trying to play, like at that point in my career. And what that did for me, like on a personal level, you know, weird. It's weird how you fall into these different places in your career, man,

where things like that can affect you in ways that you didn't know. I had two very young boys. One was just starting preschool. and the other one was just, you know, like right behind him 18 months and, you know, they were just getting out on like soccer fields and they were just getting to an age where I could take them fishing and do stuff like that with them. And if I hadn't had those extra, whatever it was, months to hang out with them, I don't think I would have realized in the way I did that my priorities had shifted.

You know, like, because you're on a regular grind. Like when you don't have that extra time, your whole focus. is really what it's always been. Let's get this body in the best shape we can get it in. Let's get this game to the optimum level. Let's be like really peaking as we're about to go into camp in a way that can let us have the best camp, right? And I'm on a new team again, so there's shit to prove. Like, let's be ready to go.

And it doesn't afford you a whole lot of jack-around time. Like, you know, you have your fun. But, you know, I, but when we had those extra months, man, I was able to take my son to preschool. I was able to be at all the practices. I was able to be on fields with them in a way that, you know, they had been too young prior to that to do it. So I didn't really know what I was missing. But damn, I got to do that for two months. And then when we checked back into Utah while I was game and I was ready to play and I didn't realize it at the time, it was part of me that was like, man, I'd rather fucking be watching this kid play soccer, man.

Like, and it's real. It's a real thing. It's a human emotion, right? I'm a dad. And I was a new dad. And so that's what it did to me is it kind of gave me a glimpse in. to like what I was missing when I was, when I was away playing and at practices and on the road. And it didn't really sink in.

But by year two, I started to really know it. And I hadn't told anybody in Utah, but I knew it. By year two, when the BS started and it got dysfunctional, the old me would have found a way to like be a professional about that and just, hey, man, we like, we got to work this out. The old me with two kids that were having fun and doing cool shit. and I was getting the pictures of them and stuff like that. He was like, man, let's, man, get me out of here, bro. I'm done. And that's what that lockout did for me.

It gave me a little glimpse into that. We get real philosophical up in here, Howard. Just FYI for future shows. We get in our bags here, you know? We were here. That's just so interesting, though. Just like it did it. So basically accelerated your retirement, right?

Like it just accelerated you or like it showed you what the, what life was afterwards? Yeah. Well, it would, yeah, it did. And instead of, again, there are some things that you do and I put up with, because I got nothing else. Like, there's nothing else for me to do. I play basketball. Like, do you know what I mean?

This is what I do. This kind of, this defines me. And I wasn't defined by that anymore. Like, I had a family. Like, I had people that, you know, that wanted to play with me and, and be on the floor doing Lego. You know what I mean? There was shit to do.

So, like, if I'm not having fun here, you know, go. do that. You know? It's fucking beautiful, man. You know what? Let's take a quick break. We're going to talk, Rogers' favorite subject. More preseason basketball. The NBA season is back and you can get in on all the buzzer beaters, ankle breakers and Tomahawk Ducks with Fanduil, America's number one sportsbook. Right now, new customer can get $2,000 bonus bets, guaranteed when you place a $5 bet. Hey man, I got a lot of favorite NBA bets. I think I'm going to take the over on wins for

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See terms at sportsbook. fandul.com. And we are back. Time for some more preseason overreaction. I was watching highlights of Victor Wimonyama's first game. the one against Chet Humberg against the Oklahoma City Thunder.

But then I think it just reached a crescendo of overreaction against the heat when he played his ass off. It was a great game. And speaking of greatness, today's real ones is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm provides support when you start to question life's what ifs. They have a fresh take on insurance with agents who can help you over the phone in person or answer your questions right away on the State Farm app. So now matter what life throws your way, State Farm agents are here to help. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Call or go to StateFarm.com for a quote today.

Now, Howard, are we overreacting about Wemby? So it's really interesting. First of all, I'm going to do something that I never do. I'm going to totally lean into the overreactions right now. Holy shit. It takes a lot. This is my 27th year cover in the league. So this is my 27th preseason.

I've seen a lot. Roger's seen a lot. Logan, you've seen a little less than us because we're old. All right, I'm old. Raj is younger than me. We're old. We have multiple generations represented on this program. But no, I mean, I've seen obviously a lot of talent in the last quarter century.

And I've seen a lot of hyped rookies. I don't think we're overhyping him. Like the early returns, it's not the numbers that we're reacting to. It's I cannot believe somebody can move. like this at this height, at this size, with this reach, and he can get from point A to point B like that. And on top of it all, by the way, and yeah, it's preseason and no one's really getting, you know, no one's cranked it up to a hundred yet. It's fine. But just the feel he seems to have for the game, I don't feel like he's forcing stuff. It doesn't look like he's out there trying to prove.

He's not trying to live up to the hype. He's just doing what he does, which is just being this absolute, you know, physical freak of nature who's got incredible ball skills. But in terms of the evolution, I was looking at, I was curious about this. So I just kind of ran a quick search on stathead, which is part of basketball reference. I wanted to see what the other evolutionary bigs. And by big, I don't mean like they have to be a power forward or a center or whatever. Like I mean the evolutionary tall guys, really tall dudes who play like guards or have pushed the position forward in some way. and how they did it as rookies.

Because I feel like when Mnayama, what we've seen so far, is indicative of a guy who's going to have an outstanding rookie season. A lot of these guys did not, right? Like, I'll just throw it open here. What do you guys think Janus averaged as a rookie? Because he's the most recent, you know, he's the Greek freak for a reason, right? Six. Virtually seven feet, whatever.

Six points. I was going to say six points as well. Yeah, six point eight points. Only started 23 games. But he was really raw, right? Like he was really, and he wasn't, he didn't have the muscle that he has now. And Wembegiana was going to put on a little bit too probably. But like, Janus was not ready, but we now look at him as this evolutionary big man.

Dirk Novitsky, average points per game his rookie year. 12. 10? Eight. Eight. Oh, okay. Eight. By the way, Dirk Novitsky, all time great shooting big man, shot 20% from three as a rookie.

Took a while. Kevin Garnett, who I think of as, like, Kevin G he was 13.6, though, right? 13.6 for KG? 10 and 6. Okay. 10 and 6. He wasn't ever a big three-point shooter, but, you know, he shot 28% from three

as a rookie. And it's weird to start comparing now because, like, this was not the three-point arrow. Guys didn't have the same green light. They weren't as encouraged to. But, like, Kevin Garnett, like, he was really, really good as a rookie, and he really started to pop his second year. So Kevin Durant would be the other one.

Kevin Durant, rookie year, average? 16. He had a couple 40 ones like 20. I would say 20. Yeah, he averaged 20. So Durant is the one who really like, because he got a lot of free reign. So that was part of it too, right?

Like he wasn't super efficient by any stretch. None of these guys even approached 50% effective field goal. Garnett got closest. He was a 49.7 effective field goal percentage. But like, most of these guys either struggled or had to, like, get acclimated. They, you know, there was, especially in like Dirk's case. Like, everybody's like, what has Nelly done? Like, what are you?

Like, who is this kid? Why, you know, why they trade tractor trailer and all these guys to get the draft rights to this German kid? It took a while. And I don't think it's going to take Wembe Niamwa. Like, I'm just going to say right now, again, I'm, I'm just going to say right now, again, I'm going to do the thing I never do. I'm going to put myself in hyperbole mode here. Of those four guys, I just mentioned,

Durant had the highest, you know, points per game average as a rookie with 20 points a game on efficiency. I think Wenbinaima's absolutely going to eclipse that. I think there's no reason to think otherwise. And I don't even think that's a stretch. I don't even think that's hyperbole. And I don't think I'm overreacting. Like he's just, he's ready.

And we can talk about him being skinny and whether he's going to stay healthy and all this other stuff. But it's not like he's going out there having to bang with Shaq or Tim Duncan or anybody else. Like this is a different game and he is perfect for today's game. Does Howard have too much dip on his ship? No. No, I mean, no, because, you know, I think the point that I agree with the most is like,

we're not talking about actually, you know, not having seen, you know, talent or people that can play or things that, like, you know, are going to be great players. but you've never seen one that looks like that. Like, I don't give a shit. I haven't seen anything that that looks like that. And yeah, you could say, you know, Chad Holmgren is kind of like long and lean and plays. And so does the kid bowl bowl. Like they have, for that size, they have really fluid games.

But it still doesn't look like that. Like the, I don't think the feel is the same. Like the variety of skill. Like, he just looks really different. And the interesting part to me is, had made, you know, a comment in summer league that he didn't look like he had his legs under him, you know, like, and I didn't know if it was necessarily a strength thing because sometimes it's not strength, although, you know, I'm sure he's gotten stronger from them. But now he looks

like he's got his legs under him in a way that, you know, if that's real, yeah, he, he's going to be a problem because you can't, you can't guard him with guys that are used to playing in certain areas of the floor when he's out in those other areas. Do you know what I mean? Making plays with the ball, giving it up. And before you know it, he's cut you. You know, bigs aren't used to being out in pure space and having the ball. Most defender's natural instinct, when you're not on the ball a lot, is when the ball gets

passed to just peek at the person that he passed it to, right? Just turn your head for a split second. These are seasoned like guard wing defenders. You know, it's a no-no. But we all kind of would fall prey to a. once in a while. Bigs, especially, they're not used to being out there. Like this kid is playing, handling, handling your guard, and he passes it, you peek, you look back, he's gone.

Like, that's a, for a dude that long that's on top of the rim, you know, I saw him throw a lob, he face cut a dude, he face cut a dude. And they threw a lob when he's on a strong side of the court, that Joker caught it and just dropped it in. Like, that's some wild shit. It's like he's playing on a fucking eight-foot rim, dude. No, it's really wild. He barely has to jump.

It's really wild. He barely has to jump the ball. It's really wild. And I don't know what it's going to be. And I don't know, you know, there are a lot of things. That is a grind of a season. It is a, I'm not even talking about physically who you have to play against. I'm talking about the sheer number of games, the travel.

There's all of that that goes into it. But so you never know, but I'm not, I'm not going to project any of that on him. What you see on the court, skill set, length, size, feel. Now he's got his legs under him. he was falling a lot in the in the in the in the summer league you know what I mean but in fairness he had been through a world win of a draft he had been through a world win of like press and travel like that wasn't it wasn't going to be at his best all of that takes his toll especially on a brand new you know person to the NBA like he looks like he's got his legs under him that that's crazy

and that segment you guys was brought to you by state farm defend yourself against life's what ifs with state farms when you need to move quickly you can rely on the state farm app to answer your questions immediately. And for those with more complicated place, they have agents in the paint ready to field your concerns in real life. It's the type of competitive strategy that makes sure you're covered, win and how you need. So you don't have to pause for a timeout. And that's how you win. Like a good neighbor, state farm is there. Call or go to statefarm.com for a quote today. one of the other things and all the names that that uh that Howard referenced in comparison to you know just evolutionary bigs they all didn't have like one thing they didn't have

Greg Popovich coaching them right and not only Greg Popovich coaching them Greg Popovich coaching them with the experience of already coaching a generational big right like in covering a hype generational big and Tim Duncan how much of an edge is that going to to have Howard, right? And also he has the infrastructure of San Antonio that kind of pushes a lot of that shit away, whereas I think if he would have went to another team, the hype machine would have been a lot different because San Antonio literally goes out of its way to mask itself from coverage. They don't want it. They do not, they push everything away. Howard is giving that look because he knows what I'm talking about here. But how is this environment?

helpful for Wimby in a way that maybe other ones weren't. Because, you know, yeah, KD, his team was about to move after his first year, right? You have just a lot of different growing pains that these other players had to go through. How was Wimby's structure in San Antonio give him advantage over the other evolutionary bigs? Logan, I think all of that is fair and right. But I actually think his biggest advantage over those other guys is that he was drafted in 23, right? Like, Dirk was drafted in 98 and then there was the other lockout. So like, Dirk didn't even get like, you know, he couldn't even play right away. That was, there was a whole other

thing like that was hurting his development at that time. Kevin Garnett comes into a league where you're still like looking at Bigs as traditional Bigs. Durant comes into a time when we're still looking. Like Kevin Durant, remember like PJ Car, this is what was playing about shooting guard, which I know like at the time was mocked and has still been mocked since. But like it's not actually that crazy in the sense that like Kevin Durant is a big but guard skills right like all right maybe it wasn't the right move at that time um but he wanted him to get a lot of reps and he wanted him to have the ball a lot and he want him to get a lot of shots up um but the biggest advantage for wemby is that he's not coming to a league where anybody's going like oh get that kid down in the post and you know you know and uh you know

add 30 pounds on his frame and have him go bank like no that's not the league anymore we're now because of the path these other guys carved wemenyama has the best benefit, the luxury of coming to a league where you look at a guy who's 7, 3, 7, 4, wherever he actually tops out at. And you're like, okay, this is a really tall guy with guard skills. Let him be him. No one's trying to force him to be anything else. And all those other guys we talked about, there was at least some resistance to the idea that a power forward seven feet, Dirk Novitsky, that he should be shooting, you know, mid-range jumpers, followways, and three-pointers, instead of, you know, banging down the paint.

Like all of the old structure, all of the old stereotypes and just, you know, the framework has fallen away. No one's being forced into a box that they're not anymore. So I think there's that, first of all. And then, yeah, like obviously pops one of the all-time great coaches. The spurs are a great organization. To Logan's point, yes, they do insulate their guys and they keep us in the media at arm's length. Like, there's all of those things will be to his benefit. He's in a small market, which on some level, you'd say, well, so there's less attention and pressure, but there's not going to be less attention.

That dude's going to be on national TV like every freaking night of the week. And he's being referred to as one of the greatest draft prospects of all time. Of course, there's going to be pressure. So he can't evade all of it. But they'll do a great job. And I say that, you know, while biting my tongue because by great job, I mean, they're keeping us away. They'll do a great job of insulating him. Like, that'll help.

But no, I just think that he's come along at the exact right time because he can just be himself. No one's going to try to make him something else. Raja, you have gotten your 2023 veterans minimum. You are now in the San Antonio locker room. Okay. You are a vet of Wimby. You are, you know, Pop. Pop just said, I don't care that he's 40-something.

Bring his ass in. Bring his ass in. There we go, Paul. What are you, how are you being as a veteran to this guy who has so much coming at him, like a lot, so much, even though you guys are in San Antonio, even though, you know, the Spurs way, yada, yada, yada, yada. How are you approaching him as a vet? Oh, that's, that's a good question, Logan. I mean, it's very layered. First of all, let's just start by like I was never in his shoes.

So I can't be preachy in a way to him. Like I would never have experienced any of that. Like, do you know, no one was ever expecting those type of things of me and pulling at me like that. And I was never of that ilk to know what it feels like to walk in those shoes. So I can't be preachy. Then I got to get to know him. You know what I mean? Because everybody kind of responds to that.

different stuff. I got to get to know, you know, how he rolls, like what's important to him. Like, is he a private guy? Is he more, you know, a community dude in the locker room? Like, how does he get down? Like, all of those things are important before I can really tell you exactly how I would approach him. But I think what I could tell him, you know, off the top would be, and it would be a universal thing. It's like, look, this doesn't last forever. You know, it probably feels like it will. And I remember the first day I was. in one of these locker rooms, it felt like, you know, all dreams had come true and this dream was never going to end, but it will. So, you know, enjoy it. Remember that at the end of the day,

it is just a game, like whatever, you know, whatever the pressures are and stuff like that, some of it comes with it comes with it, but it is a game, right? You've been playing it your whole life, so have fun with it, enjoy it. And, you know, you lean on the dudes that are around you. So, yeah, you got your team and they're at your beck and call and they can be there whenever you need them. but if there's ever a chance that you don't need them, like we're family, you know? Like, I ain't going to push that on you. I'm not going to tell you that I'm inserting myself into your world. But if you ever need something, like, we'll play our position, we'll be in the back if that's not how you roll.

But if you ever need something and you feel like you can't reach one of them, like, just know that we got your back like we're one of your brothers, you know? And so if you keep those things in perspective and you can get those messages across before you really get to know him and try to figure out what's going on in his world and where he may need some advice, I think you've done him well. I'm going to flip this. And I'm really just asking advice from the OG here. Howard, we both covered high profile people. How do you approach it as like a beat guy? What are you doing? You have this generational talent.

How are you going into, I'm going to go into this beat. I'm a young guy. You have obviously the benefit of a lot of hindsight. But how do you go into this from a coverage standpoint? They got a great beat writer out there in San Antonio, Jeff McDonald, writing for the Express News, has been covering. him a long time. Yes, sir. You know, I'd actually

be really interested, we should bring him on at some point. Like, I'd be curious to see how Jeff has actually handled this. He's covered a lot of big stars down there. I think the one thing you know right off the bat, if I'm a reporter covering the Spurs day and day out, Wenamma seems very comfortable with himself. You know, we've talked about it being comfortable with himself as a player. He's comfortable with himself as a person, right?

He's just, he seems really easy going. Seems like a fun personality, got a sense of humor, got great perspective. You know, Pop always talks about, Pop's favorite phrase when he's talking about coaches that he's hired or players, he wants people who have quote unquote gotten over themselves, which is a very rare thing for like a young freaking like just phenom. Usually you got to be around a while before you've gotten over yourself, right? But Wemagnam doesn't seem like he's that like caught up in it all. Um, so I don't know why Roger's falling out of his chair right now.

You're good. I'm sorry. You're good, champ? You're good, champ? Yeah, Roger's coughing and shit. My bad. I'm coughing and shit. Logan's giving me to stink eye.

That's my bad. Quick context. There we go. Keep all this shit in, by the way. We're going to get back to Howard. The reason why we are laughing at Raja is because we talked about, we referenced at the beginning of the show, how about Howard had a little cough and was a little under the weather and

Roger wanted to fucking initiate it and make fun and said if your ass fucking want to cough on the thing I'm going to make a face so I made a face when Roger coughed

and wanted to give all of us whatever the fuck he has in Florida. The fucking, the podcast God's got me, man, look at that. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyways, back to the coverage standpoint, the real issues. I think, I think he's like Webidjam is going to make it easy to cover him

because I think, I think he's willing to have the conversations. And I think the best thing you can ask for, the most you can ask for as a reporter, right? We have to be respectful that these guys, you know, there's a lot of demands on their time. They have lives outside of being in the gym playing basketball and they're talking about basketball to us. And by virtue of the schedule, practices, shootarounds, games, we're going to talk to you or have access to you pretty much every day during the season.

Now there's off days and teams will give guys days. off anyway. And in today's NBA stars talk to us, I would say, on average, a lot less than their predecessors did in general. But there's a lot of demands. Definitely talk to each other more than they talk to us now. No doubt.

Because they're plotting where they're all going to team up in another couple of years. But you have to be respectful of that, understanding of that, but at the same time, you have to be assertive as a reporter where, listen, man, I'm going to be covering you every day. This is the pitch I would be making to him

and his representatives and to Spurs PR. I am one of the few guys as a traveling beat rider who's going to be here every single day. I know you've got to cater to your national TV partners. I know you got to cater to, you know, whoever's going to parachute in from this national outlet or that one. Take care of me because I'm going to be here every day. You know, I'm going to know you better than anybody else. I'm going to see every stumble, every success, everything in between. I'm going to be here.

And also, like, I want to have time just get to know the guy, right? Like I'm going to as much as possible, I'm going to go talk to Victor Wembeyanama with my notepad in my back. Yes, I still carry a notepad. I'm old school. And my recorder in my pocket. So it's like, it's clear. Listen, we're not on the record. I'm not trying to get anything from you.

I just want to get to know you. Like just being able to like chit chat. Oh, look at that. Logan. Holding up the old school reporter notebook. Love it. But like that's, I think the key thing, like, you know, look, we don't need to go down the road. We'll get into it over time, I'm sure, of old war stories with Shaq and Kobe and whoever.

But, like, I got to know those guys on a certain level over seven years from, you know, game, shoot around, practice over and over and over. And a lot of conversations were not on the record. And it wasn't because I was asking some deep, dark secret either. By saying off the record, I just mean human conversation, just shooting the shit. Just get to know each other. Just like just talking about whatever, movies, music, you know, personal lives, your kids. that gets a really important part of our job that I think people, especially now, because everything is scoops, headlines, viral content, and other bullshit.

Like, the job is about human relationships. It's about creating a trust and a rapport and just trying to get to know guys. Because that's what's the most interesting part of it, right? Basketball is interesting. Basketball's fun. But, like, we're covering, you know, we're covering human beings doing human and sometimes superhuman things. The joy of it is trying to, like, get to understand how these guys do what they do and what makes them tick.

And so, yeah, that's the long-winded version of that. Quick, before we get out of here, Howard, you know, I always got, you can't leave without a story. What was your best initiation story as a beat writer, bro? What was the best one? Define that. Initiation, how? I'll give you my story. I'll give you my story.

Give me example. Yeah. So my first day on the beat would go to state was 2017 ring ceremony. The Warriors played against the Rockets. They lost the game. They were supposed to, they had a big league, lost the game. And they thought that KD had hit a shot. They thought it was at the buzzer, but the ball was still in his hands, right?

And so after the game, I went to, I was trying to like, I don't know, I think, we've referenced this story before. I tried to go to, I went to Steve after his press availability and just, I don't know what I was trying to do. I think I was trying to like, you know, just make sure the coach knew who I was because my first day happened to be opening night, which is pretty unusual when you're coming into a beat, right? But I tried to like, at least, you know, like show him that I'm here, right?

And so I'm like, hey, and I'm trying to like make a joke. And I'm like, hey, man, do you think that like, what I said something along the lines is like, hey, do you think that that loss or that shot was, that that buzzer beat or shot was like karma because you guys didn't play well or whatever. Something along those lines, but in a joking manner. And Steve looks at being. He goes, we played a fucking win and like walks off and closes the door behind him. And that was my initiation into the NBA beat reporting. Damn. Damn. Steve Kerr not known for like snapping guys' heads off. No, he's fine. But you don't talk about. He could, Steve could be fiery, bro.

No, no, no. He can. But like, in a situation like that. I was lit. Wow. How'd you feel about that? Logan? I was like, fuck, this shit is real. I'm in NBA now. Like, it's one thing to see competitiveness on television. It's another thing to see it up close, bro. Like, professional competitiveness. among professional athletes. Y'all can, I'm saying this with Raja in the, y'all can turn it off, but like, not for long.

Like, it's, it's, it comes out, right? And that's for the first time where I saw, like, no, this shit is real. Like, you got to, especially with that team during that time, you can't fuck around covering them and you can't fuck around. Like, you need to be on your shit just as much as they are on theirs. Yeah, you got this. The takeaway.

Poop butt reporter asking dumb shit. Yeah, you're about to get snapped on. Like, what? As you know, we've had Steve on the program, I've asked a lot of dumb shit. But, like, I had to lock in. No, that's what was good. What was your initiation? Initiation.

Like, that's, I mean, literally, like, 26 years ago, so hard, hard to, like, summon the memory. I just remember how awkward it felt the first time walking into the forum. Yes, it was the forum home locker room of the Lakers. And it was small because old arenas had smaller locker rooms. And so you walk in there and you feel like all eyes are on you. You're feeling really awkward. Guys are sitting at their locker. This is back when guys were actually still in the locker room pregame because they didn't

have as many places to hide in these fancy new arenas with lounges and all this shit. And you walk in and like, there were some grumpy dudes on that team, like Eldon Campbell. Like I think perfectly nice guy, but Eldon Campbell was like not the warmest personality. I love Nick Van Exel. I got to know him a little bit and really got to like him and respect to the hell out of but like Nick could be dicey. Corey Blunt was on that team. There were just some guys who were like,

if you didn't know what you were doing. Yeah, those are some person. That's some personalities there. And by the way, I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. I like, Logan, you talk about going on an opening night. I got training camp. So I got some time to get to know guys a little bit

over the course of like three, four days. And they trained at Palm Desert that year. But like, I was really new to cover in the, the NBA. And I hadn't had even, I hadn't even been a backup at that point. So like I'm, I'm just thrown in the deep end. And thank God for guys like Scott Howard Cooper, who was the beat writer for the LA Times and the late Mitch Chorkoff and other folks who like Brad Turner, other people who like help me out along the way. But on day one as a reporter walking in, it is intimidating as shit. Guys like Raja Bell staring at you, like looking at you like,

who the fuck are you? What are you doing in my space? You know, but that's how I felt, Roger. Like, And I'm sure you had that experience from the other side of it where you're checking people out as they come in, especially if it's somebody new, you don't know them yet. And like, you can feel the awkwardness. Like I was highly, like, hell of self-conscious. And there's a, so the way that locker room was structured, that forum locker room, where you walk in the front door of the locker room or the entryway, as you walk in, just to your right is the TV, the video screen where these guys are all watching pregame stuff or like tape.

So the first thing you do when you walk in and you kind of stop cold trying to survey the room the first thing that happens is now you're blocking their view the pre-year film. I'm pretty sure it was like Eldon Campbell who was like, yep, like, you know, taking my head up right off the bat like, hey, get the fuck out of the way.

Like you're like, oh man, like I've been in here for like 3.2 seconds and I'm already like making rookie mistakes. Somebody, well, I remember what time during the Warriors locker room, I'm not going to say any names, but I remember somebody was standing in front of the television and another player, a prominent player that y'all know, was like, yo, mama and a glassmaker, move the fuck over.

God, got to love it. Damn. Roger, why y'all be getting on us like that, bro? Why y'all be in our, I mean, I know we in your space and we in your house and stuff, but why y'all got, why y'all be on our head? Why y'all got to initiate us like that? Why y'all got to just be on our head like that, bro? First of all, most of us do know, like, you know when somebody comes in

and they're wet behind the ears and green, like you know, because you're used to seeing, you know, basically virtually the same cast of characters. You know what I mean? Unless it's a bigger national stage or the finals or something like that when you get this influx of all different kind of media and you don't know most of them. So we kind of know and that we get our own like initiation and their own rights of passages as players.

So like we, you know, sometimes we feel like we can involve you guys and give you your own introduction too. But the other thing is like, and for the most part, media does a great job. But like, you know, we're not, I wasn't. used to having media in college at all or the CBA. Do you know what I mean? Like that wasn't a part of my world unless it was like a quick thing after the game for a local paper and that was very rare.

So when I hopped in an NBA locker room like in Philly and I just came from Sioux Falls, South Dakota and I'm trying to get dressed and I'm trying to, you know, wrap my mind around. This is new for me too. And then I got all these people standing in my fucking way. And I'm like, yo, my man, I'm just trying to get my damn shoes, bro. Like I don't get the fuck out of my way, bro. But I know you're trying to talk to Alan Iverson.

I get it. And he sits right next to me. But you're in my fucking space. Like, I can't even get ready for the game. The role players who are stuck next to the superstars of their teams, that's the worst fucking locker to have. Because all of us,

all of us pains in the ass are standing around loitering because we're trying to be closer because we're waiting for the guy to come out of the shower or whatever, waiting to talk to him. And we're always in the way of a Rajabelle who's just like, he's just trying to get his fucking clothes and go home. You're like, man, just pass me to cocoa butter, man. I just want to get out of here, dog.

Like, I can't reach you. Oh, shit. Well, that was our first edition of MF and Mondays with our guy Howard, Mother fucking Beck. This was a pleasure, man. We're going to, we're going to every, just so you guys know, every Monday, we got Howard on the show. He is family now.

He is a part of the crew. We can't wait to have you, man. We're excited. The ringer's own. Howard, motherfucking Beck. Let's do it, man. We'll see you guys on Thursday. Tap in, ah, all the shits.

We're back to twice a week. We'll see you guys soon. We're not fucking around. Bye. Must be 21 years and older in President Select States. FanDuel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit FanDuel.com backslash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. Call 1-800 next step or text next step to 5.

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