The Ringer NBA Show - Howard Beck on ‘Real Ones,’ Celtics Taking Game 2 of the Finals, and MVP Predictions. Plus, Live Updates on Dan Hurley’s $70 Million Offer From the Lakers. | Real Ones

Episode Date: June 10, 2024

Logan is joined by The Ringer’s Howard Beck to discuss another Celtics victory in Game 2 of the Finals, the Mavs having no solution for the Celtic’s defense, and Jalen Brown playing like an MVP (12:16). Howard rants about Mav's expectations of coming back to win the series and shares stats on teams who win the first two games of the series (25:04). Later, they share live updates and reactions to Dan Hurley’s decision to stay at UConn after the Lakers courted him with a six year, $70 million deal (31:30). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (40:25). Host: Logan Murdock Guest: Howard Beck Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistants: Kai Grady and Olivia Crerie Video: John Richter and Victoria Valencia Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every true football fan knows that the NFL season truly begins after the Super Bowl champion has been crowned, and the ringer NFL feed will keep you on top of all the news still happening around the league and heading into the 2024-25 season. I'm Sheila Capadia. And every Monday and Friday, Ben Solac and I deliver Sharp takes the debates on the draft, free agency, training camp, and beyond an extra point big. And every Wednesday, we'll have dual threat where Stephen Ruiz and yours truly, Nora Princeati, dive deep into all of the big off-season developments, with Ringer favorites, Austin Gale and Lindsay Jones,

stopping by occasionally to share their expert football analysis. Subscribe to the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to follow the Ringer NFL on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and X at Ringer NFL. What's popping? Real Ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell in transit. Howard Muffucking Beck in the cut. he is live from Boston. I am live from Studio 6 in Los Angeles in the Spotify Hub.

It's good to see you, man. We're here to talk finals. What's going on? How are you doing? Are you doing good at Bean Town? I'm doing great, man. I have met my goal of averaging at least one lobster-related meal per day.

I think my lobster roll counts up to like three. So it's been good. How many lobster rolls do you eat before you get tired of? Like, I mean, no matter how good lobster rolls are, you do get tired of lobster rolls. I don't. What is your threshold? It's impossible.

I won't spend a week in Maine and just like did nothing but lobster the entire fucking week. So yeah. I can't, I cannot overdose on lobster, apparently. The streets say that Maine is fire.

Like that Maine is a great place to go. Like I, as being on the West Coast, that's just not some place I would go for, you know, leisure because it's just so far. But it seems like a vibe. Yeah, it was not on my radar.

It was not on our radar at all growing up in California. But we've been living in New York for 20 years and we're like, hey, there's other states in the Northeast. We should go look at them. And, yeah, Maine's gorgeous. Speaking of happiness in the Northeast, the Boston Celtics are up, 2-0 in the NBA finals.

One, two games in very Boston Celtics fashion. The first game, obviously, was, you know, they get into the big lead, and then they kind of hold on. And then the second game, I think the second game was a true testament to their dominance in the series thus far. and also foreshadowing, I think, the dominance that's about to come.

It was at least watching it last night away from the arena. It seemed like no matter what the Mavericks tried to do offensively, the Celtics always had an answer, whether that be Drew Holiday, whether that be the multiple offensive options that they had. The Maverick's offense was basically Luca Donchitz, go figure it out, and you're not going to have any help. You're not going to have any help. and that's just the way this is going to go.

Is that indicative of how you feel like the rest of the series is going to go? Or was this confined to these first two games, if you had to guess? No, I think with the exception of the fact that the Celtics have shot terribly, and Tatum has been kind of blah. The series so far, Logan, I think, has just shown us exactly what most of us expected. You know, not everybody, not everybody, but I think the majority of... Not me. But yeah, you're, you know, you had to be different.

I think most of us going into the series looked at it and said, all right, both teams have a great one-two punch, very differently constructed one-two punches. If you were to call that even, if you wanted to just call that even, whether it is or not, if you wanted to call that even, the fact was three through whatever favored the Celtics heavily, just heavily. Drew Holiday, Derek White, Porzingis, if he was healthy, turns out he was healthy enough to have an incredible game one. He's now a little banged up again. Al Horford, they just had more guys who can on offense, do something with the ball on their hands, on defense, guard multiple positions, make life tough on Luca and Kyrie. I feel like this is played out. I don't want to say exactly as expected because, again, I think the Celtics could be and should be even better than they've been. but there's a massive talent deficit between these teams after you get past the two stars for each team.

So that to me is the top line takeaway. I am not surprised at all that the Celtics are up to O. Yes, they played with fire a little bit yesterday or last night as they were apt to do. I can't remember who posted the clutch stats within the last several hours, but the Celtics team has been great in the clutch all season and in the playoffs. So the Mavericks just don't have enough. Lukas clearly banged up. And the Celtics, because they can play everybody straight up, there's just not a lot of places for Luca to find open shooters because they're not open.

And between Horford and Porzingis, I think they're taking away a lot of the lobs. Like this Mavericks team was thriving off of lobs to Gafford and lively. You're just not seeing a lot of that. Several people have well documented, including our colleague Michael Pina, that they've just taken away the corner threes that the maves thrive on. So it's made the Mavericks, who at their worst, could be kind of stagnant and isolation heavy anyway, even more so. And I thought it was really striking in the first half. And, you know, Luca managed to start fighting guys a little bit more in the third quarter and they made a run.

But the first half especially, it was like Luca pounding the ball, Kyrie pounding the ball, and not much else going on. And there's just not a lot of dynamism in that offense. if you can play them straight up like that. If you're not helping off anybody, then it just all kind of stalls out. Well, that's a tough part about when you're playing at this stage of the season, when you have two high-octane scores and not much to put around them, right? And I'm not saying that the Maverick supporting cast hasn't been really good this season.

I think they have been good in spurts, right? You talk about Jones. PJ Washington is a big example. lively too. But none of those other guys can create their own shots. And the only person other than Luke that can create his own shot on the roster

is Kyrie, who had 16 points on 18 shots and has struggled to kind of get his rhythm. But more than struggling to get his rhythm, I don't think he even has his mojo, right? Who stole his mojo? Karm, do you know where his mojo is? Do you have any idea where his mojo is? No clue.

Where the hell is his mojo, Beck? It's weird to see because because they're historically speaking you know you've been around kairi you've seen him in finals right i've seen him in big games before and he seems to always have that chip on his shoulder and always have some sort of killer instinct and i'm not saying that the killer instinct isn't there but he doesn't have that oof to himself he doesn't have that swagger that he used to me and raja opined in the last episode that he's being a little bit too nice and being a little bit too diplomatic and I think that's affecting his game on court.

But what have you seen just on the ground from, has it surprised you what his attitude has been? And how have you thought that is translated to his game? Is it too early in this show for Kermb to bust out his British accent so he can do Austin Powers saying he stole my mojo? Let's do it, let's do it, real quick. He stole my mojo. Does that work?

Is that good? Does that work, Mr. Beck? Does that work for you, Beck? Does that work? Phenomenal. Thank you, Kerm. I needed that. It was a long night.

I'm really tired and a little punchy. Cranky! Karee lost his mojo! Okay, sorry. Sorry. Go ahead, Beck. Phenomenal. No, I mean, there's, it feels like there's,

there's a little bit too that, and I actually agree with you in some weird way that, like, like, seeing Kyrie be so placid and self-assured and philosophical about everything, you almost think like maybe he's too comfortable being this new evolved version of Kyrie that he's a little to the edge. Although that said, I don't remember what the stat is. Kyrie's like 0 and 12 or something in his last game, last 12 games against the Celtics.

Is that in Boston or just overall against the Celtics? I believe part of it. I mean, he hasn't won in Boston in years. I think it was since 2021. I think he maybe won one game. It's been a while. But look, like, you know, all, you know, psychoanalyzing aside, the fact is, and again, this is why the Celtics, I think, were heavily favored by just about everybody. They've got so many different bodies to throw at Kyrie, so many guys who can stay in front of him. So one possession, it's Jaylon Brown with all that length.

Another possession, it might be Drew Holiday, who's one of the best defenders in the NBA, Derek White, Jason Tatum, like, there's just, and it's the same thing with Luca. like the Celtics don't mind just switching everything all the time. And sometimes the Mavs are going for multiple switches. And it doesn't matter because whoever's in front of you is still somebody who can at least contain or cut off your passing lanes and make it difficult for you. And maybe Kyrie and Luker are making it harder on themselves by trying to do a little too much in isolation. But again, no one's, you know, the Celtics aren't really doubling off anybody. So, you know, if there's no rotation, then there's no open man.

I just think that I don't know if Kyrie is being psyched out by the crowd or not, but it is really loud at there. There are a lot of Kyrie sucks chance. They are booing him every time he gets the ball. None of this is new. And I didn't hear anything. Like, I wasn't in the bowl for game one. I was back-back house.

But game two, I was in there. I didn't hear anything from where I was sitting that was over the top. but they're consistently booing and they're doing the Kyrie sucks chance. And does that rattle you? He's been in the league long enough. You'd think not. I'm going to chalk most of this up to the fact that the Celtics are just that great defensively. And Kyrie can't get loose, can't get to his spots.

But yeah, he's been, he's been abysmal. I ran it a shack last night after the game, just crossing paths in the press room. It was a very quick exchange, just kind of what's up, how's it going, blah, blah. and he goes, Kyrie's sticking up the joint. I'm guessing he said the same on air, so I hope I'm not divulging any, like. It's not a very hot take from Mr. Shaq.

No, it's not the hottest of hot takes. I think I can divulge that publicly. And I'm sure he said it on air because he was doing the NBA TV thing last night. So that's pretty much it. And like, again, like the Mavericks don't have, as you mentioned, they don't have a lot of guys who can create their own offense.

And so if it just becomes the Luca and Kyrie show kind of taking turns, that's not going to produce a lot of efficient scoring. It's really interesting to see, because I don't know if we've ever had, you've been in a league, run a league longer than I have, but I don't think we've had a situation where a guy who was a vet of a team go to another team and place his little homies who are now two of the best two-way players in the league all of a sudden. And now they're like, I'm talking about Kyrie,

Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, whom played were young guys when Kyrie was on the Boston Celtics. And now it was a very rocky road when Kyrie was on the Boston Celtics. That's well documented. But now to now come back around and you face your vet who wasn't great to you in the finals. And I know there's some animosity there. They're all good off the floor.

But I know that you even see some of the stuff that Jalen Brown is doing with his defense. He's talking shit. We'll talk about Jalen in a second. This is actually my transition into Jalen Brown. It's been really fun to see him transform into this version of a player, right? Where two years ago, it was trying to prove that, you know, not only is he the best player, but that he can lead a team.

And there was some legitimate questions in 2022 if he could do that 2020 last season, if he could do that. And now he's kind of had this metamorphosis as the best player on the team in real time. What have you thought of how he's grown over the last couple of years? What does this mean if he continues to do this because he's on track right now

to be finals MVP? What will it mean for him not only league-wide, before himself, if he's able to continue this metamorphosis and to the best player on the roster? It's pretty rare. It's, you know, it's funny.

obviously we spent a couple days here kind of laughing at and having fun with Jason Kidd, you know, going all Phil Jackson and throwing out this. That was a beautiful tactic of a divide and conquer, even though it was truth in there. But it was like, it was so transparent. And Kidd has this great way of just deadpanning things where like when Phil Jackson would do this back in the day, there's kind of this twinkle in his eye. If he throws out some little line, and I'm trying to remember like a good example, But when he would do the, when he'd have those moments, you knew exactly what Phil was doing

because there was a little bit of a smirk, a little twinkle in his eye, and he knows he's throwing something out there that we're all going to run with, and that's going to like fuck with the opposition. And Jason Kidd, because he's sort of monotone and sort of sounds the same no matter what he's saying, he could, he could have just said like, you know, the sky is blue, or I like peanut butter and jelly, or Jalen Brown's their best player. And it all sounds the same the way he's saying. And it's all just very matter of fact, as if these are just obvious basic things. He did it with a question that, like, it was a very open and a question about like, hey, what's the challenge of dealing with Jalen Brown?

Well, you know, Jalen Brown's their best player. And so, da, da, da, da, da, like, it was very matter of fact. Anyway, I admired, I admired the very subtle shit stirring by kid. I didn't think it was necessarily going to have any impact on the Celtics. Like, those guys have been together too long. and this team has, you know, been there, done that. I didn't really think it was going to do anything, but hey, you know, why not? Why not go for it?

What's really rare, Logan, when we see one, two punches in this league, it's usually pretty clear, like, okay, Michael and Scotty, we know who the alpha is there. We know, go back to our stupid Batman and Robin shit, but like, we know who's number one, right? it's always been pretty understood that it's Tatum and then Brown. And I don't know that we should. Why was that, though? Why do you think that was? Because we're on this point right now, we're seeing,

why do we anoint Tatum so fast? And I'm not even saying that we were wrong to do that. I'm just asking the why of it all. Why were we quick to, would the Tatum just show signs earlier? In your mind, why did we anoint Tatum as the face of the team? first. I don't know that we anointed him. I mean, I think it was just kind of universally understood whether it was the Celtics themselves and the way they constructed things or whether it's other coaches and scouts around the league. And yes, the media too. But like, I think it was just

pretty clear, like Tatum was the more polished and more well-rounded player. Jalen Brown's, you know, huge strides. You know what? It might have been that 20, it was the 2018 playoffs when Tatum just, that was so defining when the Eastern Conference Finals when Tatum dunked on LeBron and when that happened, Jalen Brown was coming off the bench and it was just, it was a difference in series. He had a moment. Yeah.

I mean, I think that those moments make an impression, but I also just think that Tatum had the more well-rounded, polished game was better with the ball in his hands for sure. Jalen Brown obviously a lot of turnover issues and you cringed, you know, in the past at least every time you put the ball on the deck. And so I don't think it was unwarranted. But where I'm going with this is that if Jalen Brown wins finals MVP, we're getting ahead of ourselves.

And right now, like through two games, like Tatum is probably not finals MVP, but like it might be Drew Holiday. If Porziggis has another big game, it might be Porzegas. Like, that sounds ludicrous, I know. But I don't know how the next couple of games are going to go and how long this series is going to go. but if Jalen Brown wins finals MVP, it will sort of stoke this discussion, right?

Like, oh, we always thought it was the one two punch was Tatum as the one. And now maybe it's the other way around. I don't know that it matters or anybody should actually care. Michael Pete and I were walking back from the game last night after filing our stories and just kind of talking about this and about the way that, you know, on an individual level, Tatum, it feels like he's losing some ground because he's struggling in these finals because, you know,

even with the Celtics being a 64-wood team this year, right, he wasn't going to be any better than fifth in the MVP voting. And Peter's response at one point when I was like kind of noting some of this, he's like, and the thing is it doesn't actually even matter. And I said, you know what, you're right. Like if they were the championship, none of them should care. And we'll all dwell in it because this is what we do.

We have to rank people within their era. We have to rank people historically. We have to talk about who's the alpha. all this stuff. Check out the ringer player rankings. If you get a chance, check out the player rankings on the ringer if you get a chance. Just saying, yes, but this is what we do, right? But I think most players, not all, but most would say, you know what, I don't care, maybe I don't win finals MVP. Maybe I never win regular season MVP. Maybe people don't think I'm a top five player and I'm only top 10 or top 12 or something. If Tatum and Brown stick together for any length of time,

and this becomes championship one of potentially several, I don't think either of them are going to care necessarily whether they got the accolades. Like you do early in your career. Again, that was the lesson of, I hate to make it another Celtics reference, but that was the lesson of the, you know, the 2007-8 team, right? Like Pierce had done all kinds of great things on his own individually. Garnett had, Ray Allen had. None of them had won at the level that you really need to or that you want to. They all sacrificed. They win a championship. We know the story. But, and Brown and Tatum are younger than those guys were at that time. But they seem pretty comfortable with this arrangement. Like, I don't, I don't think anybody's complaining, Logan. This is not

Shaq versus Kobe. They're, you know, and this, this. And I think they've always been to a certain degree comfortable with each other. I remember talking to Marcus Smart a few years ago. He was like, they've always been friends. I mean, you guys might not have seen it, but they've always been in a good place. They've always been good. You know, and now, I think more than anything, this is just a coming of AIDS for Jalen, which is a good thing to see, right? And we always ask, and I brought up Marcus Smart. We always act, the biggest thing that I'm impressed with, we always ask who was going to fill the void of Marcus Smart

in terms of leadership. Now we're seeing that with Jalen, and I'm impressed by that just to see how far he's come in the leadership category, right? Because he had to find himself in order to do that. And he's in a good place with that. So I think that should be the story. I know it likely won't be. The other side of it, though, just from a game on court,

standpoint, I want to talk about, use this to talk about Jason Tatum. He's, I think he's made 12 shots all series. He's not shooting the ball very well. He is doing other things very well. He's getting his assists, getting his boards. But we talked about how, what's been affecting Kyrie. Is it something that's been, is that kind of the, not necessarily, is it a mind thing that you think is, is affecting Tatum or you think it's just the defense, uh,

that he's facing right now that is influencing how his games have been from a shooting perspective. No, I think it's more Tatum just missing shots. And that's the thing. Like, I think if you're the Mavericks, you're feeling, I don't actually, based on what I saw from them last night post game, it doesn't seem like they're necessarily taking any moral victories out of any of this. But yeah, like they're a possession or two or a mistake or two away. You know, Luca has eight, eight turnovers and characteristic of him.

but they're not that far off from maybe stealing a game. At the same time, though, like, the Celtics are up to O and their best player, yes, I'm still going to say Tatum's their best player, their best player, their best player has been pretty awful. Like, he had a great assist game last night. He was a great playmaking game. 12 assists was his career high for, you know, playoffs, regular season, or anything. But probably Tatum's not going to keep shooting that poorly. and I think like if you're the Celtics, you're feeling pretty good.

You're up to O and your best player has not played his best by far. And this is a team that's been great on the road. So I don't think they're worried about playing in Dallas. By the way, can I do my, my, they just held serve rant again with some stats? Getting your fucking bag. Get in your bag. Because Jason Kidd did it last night. I was waiting for it.

I was waiting for it. I was waiting for that they just held serve. I can't remember if he actually used that terminology, but it was the, you know, they did what they're supposed to do. They won their two. How many cliches have you heard throughout the finals before you get the held serve in your held serve back? I mean, that's, that was the main one. There have probably been others.

I haven't been mentally cataloging, but last night I was waiting for it. I was waiting for the justification. The team that's down to, oh, always has to do this. If you lost the first two on the road, you have to say, well, they just held serve. They just did what they're supposed to do when their home games. Now we'll go do that. But it's bullshit. These are the lies NBA teams tell us.

Real quick. So in the playoffs, in a best of seven series, the game one winner wins the series 75% of the time. And if the home team won game one, they win the series almost 85% of the time. In the playoffs, the team that wins the first two games at home, which the Celtics have just done, win the series 92.5% of the time. And in the finals, the team that wins the first two games at home, they win the series 84.4% of the time. So it's not just holding serve. If you're the team without home court advantage, you really need to win one of those first two games and steal home court because you're going to have to win on the road at some point. Offhand, I don't think the team has done that since the heat in 06, if I had to guess. It just ran the table after losing the first two games. Yeah, that might be it.

That might be it. I'd have to look at it. And a lot of that had to do was they had three straight home games going back. that was the old two three two form. Yeah. Yeah. I miss the two format. I like that better.

Yeah, but the players don't. Yeah. It's all about me. Fuck them. No. Anyway, when you're down to O, what it really means is you now have to win four of the following, four of the remaining five against a team that you have not been able to beat on their home court yet.

Like, that's what it really means. And it usually means that you're down to O for a reason, that you're probably just not good enough to beat that team. So they didn't just just not good enough to beat that team. So they didn't just. just hold served. It's not as simple as that the Mavs are in a tough hole right now. It's the reason why, like, just watching it last night,

the Mavs, they can say, oh, we're one or two plays away from stealing a game, but they damn near have to be perfect to even win a game in this whole series. Like, they held the Boston Celtics to 45% from the field and 25% from 3-point range and lost by 7. and it wasn't even close. Like, they cannot manufacture offense whatsoever outside of Luca. I, maybe they'll probably, they might have a game. We always see it, the momentum game at home, right?

Where you just, you just beat the shit out of a team. Maybe it's game three, maybe it's game four. But when the chips are down, if like two of the Boston Celtics are on and they're playing shutdown defense, they win the game. They're so much better than the day. Dallas Mavericks, and I'm so embarrassed that I picked the Mavericks at 6. You don't even understand, Howard. I'm out here.

I was so confident in that pick. What a hater I am, huh, Kerm? Fucking hate it. But I get it. It's fuck the Celtics on this side, too, so I get it, man. But where do you see the rest of this series going? I'm not saying predictions. I'm just saying, you know, just a foreshadow.

Like, I'm not saying you who's winning it. Like, based on what I just said and based on what you've seen from just the disparity in, not talent, but just disparity in roster construction. Where do you see this series heading? I think it's over. Yeah, probably. I mean, look, I said Celtics in six, but in the back of my mind, it was, you know,

but we don't know what Porzingus looks like. So let's see what he looks like. If Porzingis looks really good, it might be Celtics in five. And Porzingis looked incredible in game one, not so great in game two. And then he got banged down. and we'll see what that means for game three.

Porziggis, my God, talk about over-dramatizing. Porzegas was asked afterward about, you know, are you going to be all right to play in three? And he said something like, if I have to die out there, I will. Like something like that. Hey, man, how, how, how, how, the, I've seen it on television,

me and Karimov both see it on television. How is the crowd when Prozengis comes to the floor? It feels like he's a fucking rock star in Boston. He's realest read. like to the point where he just waits, where he just waits even like hella late on purpose just to come out and to get the heroes welcome before every game. They need to like,

he's milking the shit out of it. Drop the lights and start playing like the Rocky theme or something or just like, you know, because he does the hands and stuff too. He's like, yeah. It really is something. No,

he's become Willis Reed, the Willis Reed of Boston or something. But, but dude, I mean, he's, Porziggis is a good, extremely tough cover.

And he, the dimensions he adds. at both ends of the floor for the Celtics are just impossible for the Mavericks to deal with as long as he's mobile enough. So, you know, he might be the difference between, like, if he is banged up, if he can't go in game three or if he's, you know, slowed up a little bit, I think that that, you know, gives the Mavericks a little bit of wiggle room or a little opportunity there. But like, I'll stick with what I said from the beginning, which was Celtics and six.

But I, this is starting to look like Celtics in a shorter series, you know, maybe it's five. I'm skipping the next two games because I've got to go home for some good family stuff. But I'm assuming I'm coming back here at about a week for a game five. There you go. All right. Let's take a quick break. We're going to talk a little Lakers, much to Howard Sugar. All right.

And we are back. It is 1036 Pacific time here in Los Angeles where the Lakers are waiting. patiently or impatiently on the decision of one Dan Hurley, who at the 11th hour, depending on who you, you know, who you read, was approached by the Lakers with a massive offer that was impressive and compelling and all of the things. Yet he left Los Angeles on Friday without signing a contract and said he'll take the weekend to think it over. This is coming on the heels of the pursuit of J.J. Reddick, which has been well documented and kind of weird.

What the hell of the Lakers doing, Howard Beck? Oh, my God. I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if they know. Kerm is crying right. They don't know. Kerm is in a very bad place right now. I'm sorry, Kerm.

I really am. This has been among the more peculiar coaching searches we've seen. seen from the, you know, JJ Redick candidacy to J.J. Reddick being kind of almost universally acknowledged and reported as being the front runner to the, you know, 11th hour, Dan Hurley, but he's been their top target all along. Huh? We didn't even hear about that. Like it. As many leaks as we've gotten from the Lakers over the years to just doubt, yeah, it's weird. It's all a little strange and I'll just leave it. at that. And so as we record this on Monday afternoon, I believe we are 20 minutes away now

from what I think is when Hurley's supposed to make some sort of announcement. And I don't know what that's going to be. But let's assume he stays at Yukon. I just don't see him like going back to the East Coast and making it. I mean, we're speaking this really early. I just don't see him going all the way back to the East Coast to announce that he's going back to the West Coast. depends on where the press conference I don't know what the location may or may not have to do with it it would be

I don't know I don't know I just I just know that if he turns them down if he stays put and you've now made a big show of chasing him we're going to blow him away we want him to be a long-term

coach who establishes a culture and a system and a continuity and da-da-da-da-da-da and then you don't get him Well, I mean, where does that leave them? But where does that also leave like JJ Reddick? If JJ was actually the frontrunner before, now it looks like he's your second choice.

Like how does that go over? Where does that leave Borago? Is there some other dark horse that we don't even know about yet? Just feel handy, just going to come out and just coach the team? Is that this what's going to end up happening? Phil Handy is going to come out. There's not going to have any candidates. Like, Phil, come back.

I, I, I, uh, somebody already beat me to this joke on Twitter, but, uh, Frank Vogel's available. I can't see, I can't see. I can't see current right now. I don't know how that went over. He's just giggling in the back. I laughed. I like, it was funny at least. I'll give you that.

You let him do a championship. How do you fumble a coaching search this much, man? Because even the hurly stuff, right? And we don't know if he's going to be the coach or not. But even the hurly stuff, all, it seems like they're just. grasping for straws, right? Like, if you have been courting JJ Reddick this whole time,

first of all, why haven't you come to an agreement, right? And then you go to the hottest coach out there who seems to be at this point, the very least is trying to gain leverage. What's going on? Here it is. What's up? Tweet from Mr. Breaking news on real ones right now, breaking news.

From Mr. Wojj. Connecticut's Dan Early has turned down the Los Angeles Lakers six years, $70 million offer, and we'll return to chase a third straight national title sources tell ESPN. KERM right now, put the camera on Kerm.

What is your reaction right now, Kerm? This franchise is the joke. I'm going to keep it a beam, man. We can talk about how important it is. Who's coaching Lakers, who isn't? It starts with the front office. I need the bus family to sell the franchise. Get your billions.

Get your billions, chill out. sell the franchise Rob Palinka pack them up get them out of here let's start new let's get a real front office in there so we don't have like this was the point of this

what was the charade of all of this this is embarrassing it's stupid now it doesn't matter who the coach is they're still going to come in there being like well I definitely wasn't wasn't the first option and if they don't get JJ Redick

I definitely wasn't the second option this is embarrassing that's all I'm saying wow we're getting this all in real time I'm glad we talked about it There was some debate whether we should talk about this charade of a fucking coach. The timing ended up perfect. And now we're here.

Now the timing ended up perfect. Howard, your thoughts right now in real time as you're gathering them. What's going on? Oh, man. What a mess. What a mess. Especially because, and listen, people can say, oh, well, the Lakers didn't do this. This was just reports.

Like, these reports came from somewhere, folks, and they came out for a reason. They made a big production of this. and now it's it's it's blown up it's done it's gone and you're back to where you were JJ Reddick versus James Borrego versus I don't know whoever's behind curtain number three I don't know where this leaves them but it it does not the part of the problem for the Lakers is that people understandably already kind of look at them askew as an organization they've had a lot of fumbles the last several years both with personnel with coaching hires with coaching firings.

And when the process unfolds like this, it does not inspire confidence across the league. From fans, from media, from rival teams. Everybody looks at it and just shakes their head. It says, what the hell are they doing? And this has not moved the ball forward. If anything, I think this once again puts them in a bad light where it looks like they're just kind of grasping at straws.

and listen, this could all turn out fine. They could get a great coach. They could hire JJ and he could turn out to be a great coach for all we know. It's impossible to tell. Trying to predict who will become a good coach, especially if they've never done it before, is an impossible task. Like we need to stop even trying to predict these things. Whether, you know, there was always already the speculation about could Dan Hurley make the jump or not,

college coaches to the NBA, blah, blah, blah. We don't know. Sometimes it works. sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes a guy is the exact right resume and it still doesn't work. I just think that sitting here on June 10th with the Lakers still not knowing who their head coach is and going into, you know, whatever next season is. Is it the last season of LeBron's career next to last? None of this is good. Whoever is the coach right now will go into it, clearly knowing that they weren't the number one.

Yeah. And that makes them a lame duck. And whoever gets this job, do they even make it to March, right, depending on how the season goes? It's going to be really tough. And if you're JJ Reddick, it's hard to come back. It's hard to come back into whatever the negotiations was,

and I'm sure that'll come out and due time and how this kind of unfolded. But it's going to be, if it's JJ, right? I don't know if it's Borago. It doesn't seem like it would be him. It seemed like it was either or with Dan Hurley or JJ. But if it's JJ indeed, he's going to go into a locker room that knows that he's compromised. And then add that on top of the fact that he's going to have the internal questioning of if this team really wants me.

Because the fact of the matter is they clearly at the 11th hour saw something in your, you or didn't see something in you to go elsewhere and offer somebody else a massive offer. You said, six years, $70 million. Was that what it was? Something like that, yeah. You clearly, yeah, you clearly, clearly somebody else that this team that you want to go work for want somebody else. And you're going to have to think about that every time you make a mistake.

And there's, there's fans that are with a big microphone like Kerm and Jemmy and all these people that are going to be on your head, and then you have the LeBron element on top of that. It's going to be a tough go for, it's going to be, this is going to be pretty big. And I don't really want to, like, speak in hyperboleys,

but this is going to have ramifications for some years. As long as LeBron is there, there's going to be that influence. There's going to be, because they can't get from under it, right? They're not going to, and LeBron's not going anywhere, especially now.

He's kind of emboldened, and they're probably going to get the guy that he likes. But more than anything, If it's JJ Reddick, it is going to be a tough year to follow the Lakers. Sorry, Kerm. But it's going to be tough. I mean, listen. They're going to be a circus next year no matter what, though.

Well, they always are. In terms of content. They're the Lakers that's built in. But listen, if I'm J.J. Reddick and I'm sitting at the press conference tomorrow as the Lakers new head coach and you say like, hey, JJ, you know, there were reports that the Lakers through this massive offer, Dan Hurley, who turned them down. how are you feeling about stepping into this knowing that you were not necessarily the first choice? It's like a very easy one to answer.

It's very like everybody has an ego and I'm not saying this doesn't matter at all for PR purposes or just impression purposes, right? And I get everything you're saying. But this is a very easy answer if you're JJ Reddick. It's listen, Dan Hurley's won back-to-back national championships and has been coaching his whole life. I have not coached yet. I think I'm going to be a great coach. I'm certain I'm going to be a great coach.

coach. But, you know, I don't begrudge the Lakers. It's, it's no slight at me or anybody else they considered that they would go and chase one of the best coaches in the country who's been doing this a long time and has won back-to-back titles. Like, that's pretty simple. So you can get over that initial hurdle. The bottom line is still whether or not JJ's the right coach at the right time for this team. And what does his staff look like? And can he find the right kind of assistance who can match or offset all of the things that he does not have yet? having not done this before. Like it's really important to put together a great staff.

And what are the other problems with waiting too long in the cycle to hire a head coach is that sometimes great assistant coaches get yanked off the market too. And you might miss the opportunity to get guys who would make a great staff. Yeah. It's just going to be a tough goal no matter what. And even if for any coach, that's a first time coach, this Lake, situation is a lot to ask. I mean, we just saw it with Darvin Ham, right?

And the spotlight's going to be on you. LeBron's only a year older. And here's another thing with JJ. This goes bad fast. The internet is going to go crazy. Like, it's going to be ridiculous. It's like all the old clips are coming up. There's going to be, it's just,

JR said don't do it. So I'm going to believe J.R. This is not the right move, man. Like, JJ, I get it. It's probably the ego trip. that he wants to be the Lakers coach and all these things. But a better situation to get what you want as a coach is not the Lakers situation. It's, it's, but, you know, there it goes.

Sorry, Kerm. Is Kerm okay? I can't see him. Kerm's not okay. He's staring in the distance right now. I'm disassociating real fast. That's me right now. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, his sparks suck. His Lakers suck. It's tough right now. Sparks one last night. They did one last night. They beat the hastes last night. Let us have that. Let us have that.

Are there at least like good free snacks at Spotify headquarters in L.A.? Is there something to like just drown your sorrows? They didn't have his sunships today. They didn't even have my sunships today. Everything's gone wrong for Kurt. No cheddar sunships. It's just, it's not a good day. It's not been a good morning for carb.

He had to get here early to do Midnight Boys, Poo, Poo! And then they didn't have his fucking sunships. Anyway, great segue into a segment we do every Monday for Howard motherfucking Beck. the motherfucking Mondays, and we're going to have a motherfucking accent, Howard Beck, coming on. What's going on? What's going on, Kerm?

What we got going? We already did the intro's yada, yada, yada. Life sucks today. Let's do these questions. We'll do the non-accent one first, so we'll do the accent last. Only two questions today. First one's from Andrew.

We're going to kind of, this stuff from a couple weeks ago, so we're kind of detaching from the finals and the playoffs and looking towards the future. Real ones, I enjoy listening to your show, provided he has a very healthy career, plays 15 to 20 seasons, and is surrounded by a solid team for most of those, can Wimbamiyama become a top five player of all time

or possibly the goat? His defense already seems prime for an all-time level and his offense seems to have incredible potential. Given his innate physical gifts and his cerebral understanding of the game, it seems he has the potential to affect basketball on both ends in ways that have yet to be seen. What do you guys think? He can be top five all time.

Howard hates these predictions. I think I want to go first. I'm going to go first just to get Howard's mind right. I'm just ever the beginning. He has all the tools to be a top five player of all time. And he absolutely showed that potential in this first year. I mean, him going to toe to tow to a Durant, his first week in dominating during stretches was a big deal. I don't know if he's going to play 20 seasons.

I mean, that's a really hard task, especially just his body type, right? Yeah. But I do think he has the capabilities to be able to be a multi-time MVP, be a multi-time champion, right? Like, I think he has a lot of tools. He reminds me of Kareem in a lot of ways just with the body type, but like also the game. He has the Kevin Durant-like game. And he's been able to, he can, you imagine a seven-three point guard or that can do everything on the floor, right, in spurts. But then he can also go to the post and dominate.

And he can also be a rim protector, right? All those things suggest he could be one of the all-time greats. I just, I don't know how long it's going to be, though. I don't know. We'll see what happens. But this rookie year was everything that you would want it to be if you're projecting that he could be that good when it's all set it done. I would just say just as I didn't want to start predicting a Nuggets dynasty based off

one championship, I don't want to start predicting. They did that. You didn't do that. They did it. Right. Well, I pushed, but remember, I pushed back against it. So just as I would push back against it. too soon proclaiming a team of a potential dynasty based on one title. I'm not going to

proclaim a player, a potential all-time great, based on his rookie season. There's a long way to go. There's a lot, of course, that has to go right for him. They need, obviously, a supporting cast. He's going to need a co-star or two along the way. He's going to have to stay healthy. but does the outline of Wembenyama suggest all-time greatness, not just, oh, really good career or outstanding career, but potentially top 20, top 10, top 5? Yeah, the outline of what we've seen suggests that that's possible. I just, I feel like we always get ahead of ourselves trying to project that.

But my gosh, like the guys, the potential is off the charts. We know all the basics here, you know, the height, the length. the ball handling skills, you know, the ability to protect the rim, but also to do just about everything you can possibly do on offense, handle, shoot, pass. He's got the work ethic. That's the one thing that I always think is overlooked when people start trying to project young guys. There's a lot we don't know about a guy's just his head, right? Like how dedicated are they? How committed are they? How much do they care? Are they a good teammate? Everything we have learned so far about Wembenyama suggests that he checks all of those boxes. And so that's the stuff

that bodes, I think. And a desire too, right? Like he, he, like, he has this competitive instinct that I've been seen as well to complement that. Yeah. And there are guys who, like, they have the physical tools and they look the part, but they don't care enough or they're not dedicated enough or they're just, you know, not as smart about the game. Their basketball instincts might not be like, there's none of those concerns with him. Like I said, he checks all of the intangible boxes in addition to all the tangible boxes. So sky is the limit, but I'm not going to get into how high that sky is, if that makes any damn sense. Probably not.

All right. Here's it. Here we go. Let's see what he got. Let's see what Kerm has. This is the accent question. See, the past couple weeks, I've been gifted, you know, people from the UK with their British accents. I got to, you know, do my impersonation.

This week, dudes from Australia. I'm going to be real with you. I know those accents aren't too far apart. I don't feel comfortable doing the Australian accent, but for y'all, I'll try. We'll see how it goes. Just got to put the disclaimer route there before I even get going. So it's from Kiz.

That's his name. He says, Phelis. It's kids from down under. Let's talk about real ones on the Celtic side. So far, and then, see, this shit sucks. So far in the finals, who you give in the mantle to? Drew Holiday, Jalen Brown, or Derek White. I don't want to just talk about stats.

I want to talk about hustle and having the stones and giving everything before walking off that floor. So who do you guys have? Flathaino's MVP? Oh, I think we answered it so far, right? It's kind of too early to tell. I'm going to go, because we're kind of making predictions, which is something that Howard Beck loves.

I'm going to go with Jalen Brown. Just because he has the platform to be able to do that, right? Like, I don't know. He can, he's going to be able to have the shots. He's going to be playing the lockdown defense. he just he has the name he has the stature on the team so i think that it could be it's going to be he's also just had some of those highlight impact plays where we're going to remember you know certain blocks you know breakaway dunk on gafford yeah yeah the dunk on gafford just everything

everything like there's jelan brown is having like statistically it doesn't leap off the page but he's having an outstanding series but all that said like who the hell knows how these next couple games are going to unfold. You know, does Drew Holiday go off another couple of times? Do we get like a weird Andre Igadala type year where it's, you know, not one of your top two players who ends up winning MVP just based on their all-around

contributions? And I know Iga Dala was a really special, unique case. But this could still go a lot of different directions. And by the way, again, on the belief that Tatum is their best player still, despite everything and despite what Jason Kid might say in a press conference for other purposes. Tatum's, I don't think he's going to keep shooting this poorly. So if Tatum just goes back to producing at the level that we're normally used to seeing,

and that helps them close out the series. We're still due for a Tatum, yeah, man. We're still due for a Tatea. Like, this could very easily still go right back to him. So, I mean, we're two games in. It's, who knows? We'll see. Thank you.

One last part of this question. He asks, as a second course, when you're going to start? When are you guys going to start a real one's Hall of Fame? Send, you know, these individuals a real trophy. Real ones should be a recognized award. Open to budget, Spotify. That's all I got to say. Open to budget.

A Hall of Fame for who? We could start for real ones, real ones. Oh, yeah. We have the Real ones in a week, but like a real one Hall of Famer. Like, you're a legend forever crystallized. We got to do certificates. Probably certificates. That's probably cheaper than a truck.

Do we keep track? Do you have it like curved? I got a spreadsheet somewhere. I don't know. Do we have anybody that keeps track of all the real ones? Starting today, every real one of the week will officially be canonized. You're officially canon of the week. Everyone before this, except for me, I'm a two-time real one of the week.

I know that. I do remember that. Everybody else, I'm sorry, we forgot about you. But starting today, in June 2024, if you're a real one of the week, you're now legendary. We'll never forget you. It will be written down on a document somewhere. For shis on a Google Doc somewhere. Okay, well, if you want great content like this,

make sure you send your email. I haven't said this over the last few weeks, and I need to just do it. Real onesmailbag at gmail.com. Real onesmailbag at gmail.com. Real onesmailbag at gmail. What's that again, Kerm? Real onesmailbag at gmail.com.

What's that, Howard Beck? I believe it's real onesmail bag at gmail.com. You motherfucking right. And that's been another edition of motherfuckering. fucking Mondays. I'm Logan Murdoch. That is Howard Beck. That's Jonathan Kerma. We out this motherfucker. Bye.