The Ringer NBA Show - Howard Beck on the Miami Heat Stealing Game 2, Defending Nikola Jokic, and Kyrie Irving Wanting LeBron James in Dallas | Real Ones

Episode Date: June 5, 2023

Logan and Raja are joined by longtime NBA sportswriter Howard Beck to discuss the Miami Heat stealing Game 2 of the NBA Finals from the Denver Nuggets and why road wins are essential for an underdog team (2:00). Along the way, they talk about the Heat’s defensive strategy on Nikola Jokic and the discourse surrounding it before making predictions about Game 3. Next, the guys unpack the report that Kyrie Irving reached out to LeBron James to ask him to join him in Dallas next year and why it’s an impossible outcome (36:00). Later, they briefly go back and forth on how long they think Ja Morant’s upcoming suspension will last (53:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Howard Beck Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome to a golf podcast unlike any other. This is Fairway Rowland on the Ringer podcast network. I am your starter, Joe House every week on Fairway Rowland. It is myself and our PGA tour correspondent on the ground, Nathan Hubbard, talking all things professional golf, amateur golf, amateur betting, professional betting, amateur drinking, professional drinking, my birdie buddies. If you want to hit them straight out there,

please check out Fairway Rowland. Every week, available on Spotify. What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Raja, in the prepod meeting, you did such a great job of announcing this guest. Who do we have in the motherfucking building?

Howard M. Fing Beck. No, no. No, no. No, I got to say it. Who do we have to have? having the building, Roger. I feel like I get in trouble for dropping the F-bomb in the first minute of the episode. But Howard, motherfucking back. Howard, how you doing, pal? I'm doing great, even better because I see Raja here.

We're now, I think, like, I think we're shooting two for six on Raja appearances when I'm on the pod. So that's great. percentages are rising. I want to clip the, I want to clip that intro from Raja and use it as like my voicemail now. Can I do that? You have permission. You are, yes. You granted. Oh, man. We were talking hours after, not even hours, about 12 hours after the Miami Heat.

They tie the series 1-1 going back to Miami. Is this just inevitable, Howard, that the Miami Heat are going to make a series out of it and win every series until the next season? Is this just the path that we're on, or is this just one game? Can we go back in time so that they can drop to like the ninth or tenth seat

and then make this run. I don't know how else to make it more impressive than it already is now, right? They dropped from seventh to eighth just to add the degree of difficulty so that we will call them an eighth seed for all time, even though they had the seventh best record in the east.

Yeah, I feel like they're just like messing with us at this point. I'm not surprised they tied the series. I will say that. I wouldn't have predicted it, but I'm not surprised if they've tied the series. I'm not surprised that this is going to be a series. One, we should have learned by now

that we should never count out The heat. That's the entire theme of the entire season, clearly. Two, they were so bad with their three-point shooting in game one. And we know how decisive three-point shooting can be in today's NBA. You knew it wasn't going to be. Those were open shots. They weren't forced bad shots. It wasn't like, oh, the Nuggets took them out of their stuff. The Nuggets don't really do that. They're not a great defensive team. So it was, I thought predictable that the heat would shoot a lot better, that it would be a much more competitive game. Whether or not they were actually going to win game, too, like I said, I would not have predicted.

But I'm not surprised we're here. Are you? Yeah, and no. Yes, I would be, I'd surprise just for the sheer fact that this team barely made it in from the playing. Yes, on paper, I am surprised. But I feel like, as this series goes on, Rajah, every time, I think that every time we doubt the heat, they just say, no, you guys know the truth. You guys, you knew that we were going to win this game. You knew that we were inevitable.

Rajah, and there's a lot of people that deserve credit for game two and beyond and being successful in this series from a Miami Heat perspective. Who deserves the most credit for how this series has gone and the reason why we are at 1-1 going into game three? Listen, that's a big question, and I don't mean to distill it down because there are a lot of reasons. but I'm going to say Pat Riley. And I'm going to say that because I think what you're seeing is what, you know, ultimately the heat are all about, which is just this culture of we're not going to beat ourselves. And we talked about it with the, you know, in the Boston series,

like you have to beat them. Whether they're, whether they're as talented as you or not is besides the point. Like they're coming with their lunch pill and their hard hats. And they're going to be there. And you saw it in game one. And I heard a lot of people say it was never really in jeopardy, even when the heat got within 10 or 8. And maybe it wasn't.

But the fact that they were still standing there in the paint swinging, like making you fight for every scrap down the stretch, I think speaks to that culture that we talk about. And so if you're asking me, like, who's the most responsible? While I could say, like Gabe Vincent's played fantastic and Eric Spolstra's adjustments, you know, in the starting lineup with K-love. And, you know, there are a lot of reasons, Drew's coming out hot and setting the tone.

We could do all of that. But I think overall, it's just their DNA. It's the way they're built. It's the construction of the organization from top to bottom. And I'm going to start with Pat Ryan. Considering where we are in this series, Howard, where going into the series, me and Rogers talked on this at length,

that Denver on paper and in practice is the more talented team. I think that's the story of the heat's whole season is that they're playing against more talented teams. But there that really matters when you're when you're tied 1-1. How big was this win for the Miami Heat going into game three? Where now home court advantage, if it didn't matter before, it definitely doesn't matter now because Miami has it. Did Denver miss an opportunity here to put this stranglehold of the series,

or is it just one game? Because we had Amino Hassan on last week talking about how, you know, we as a media conglomerate kind of overreact to both the losses and the on a night-to-night basis. And I don't want to do that on this end, but I'm still going to ask the question, how big of a loss was this for the Denver Nuggets as the series progresses?

So Amin's right. Like, we do overreact to, and to this point, too. And I don't know if you had, did you have him after, on after game one? Oh, he previewed our finals coverage. He previewed the finals. Okay, because I was actually, even by standards of today's NBA discourse,

I was a little surprised at how heavy the series is over. It might even be a sweep. Everybody getting ready to crown the nuggets after game one. Like, folks, like, have you not watched the rest of the postseason? Like, I know, and like, I'm right there with everybody else that the nuggets were worthy favorites. They've got home court. They got elevation. They've got Yokic.

They've got all this stuff. And they won game one in a pretty decisive fashion. But the idea that, why are we overreacting to game one's still in the year 20? 23. Like, come on, folks. So we do overreact, and we will now overreact in the other direction, probably, because it's what we do. I do think it was a huge win in the sense that, yeah, okay, you can do the whole hold serve thing if they go down 2-0, but you win the two at home, and now it's best of three, yada, yada. I think the sooner you can pierce that sense of inevitability or the home court advantage where it's like they haven't lost a home game

all postseason. They haven't lost a game in Denver period in like three months or whatever it is. The sooner you can pierce that, I think, the better for your own confidence purposes and maybe just to take a little bit of that away from the Nuggets. I also think that there's just like there's a proof of concept thing, right? You don't know you can do it until you do it. All right, you got that. And you're going home with two games at home. By the way, the Nuggets should be very, feel very fortunate that they are playing in the Adam Silver era, not the David Stern era when it was two, three, two in the finals because can you imagine what the discourse would be today if this were

one one going back to Miami for three straight games. That'd be great. Also a long time in Miami for a big of December. Yeah. That South Beach flu. That South Beach floo hop on you. And there's that. And there's that.

But no, I think it's a big deal. And, you know, it doesn't mean that everything is going to follow some sort of script now. with two games in Miami. Like every game takes on its own personality. And I don't think, you know, just as, you know, you had to expect the heat, we're probably going to shoot better. And it wasn't going to be like that the entire series. Yokic wasn't going to put up 30-point triple doubles every game.

I don't think we should come out of last night's game thinking, well, anybody has, quote, unquote, solved anything or the whole narrative of, you know, make Yokic beat you with the scoring. Like, I think there's something a little bit to that. But I don't think, like, that's some formula that's now. going to be the go-to to define the rest of this series. Yeah, of course it's a big deal. Just to piggyback, look, when you're that road team and you're going in as the

overwhelming underdog into a situation like that, having come out as poorly as you looked at times in game one, even though the fight was there, you were game, you didn't look great. and it looked like there weren't a lot of answers for certain things. To be able to come out, rally those troops, stay together, execute the game plan, both offensively and defensively, the way that the Miami Heat did, and ultimately get that win, that's fucking huge. It's huge.

Now, it doesn't mean they win the series, but I don't know if you remember when we had a mean on, I said, man, if the heat can go in there and get a game, if they can go in there and get a game, and I'm not having this knee jerk. I still have Denver and six. but you've now shifted, you know, the pressure and, you know, the likes of Michael, Michael Porter and dudes like that, like, let's see what you're built.

Like, because we know what Gabe Vincent and companies built. Like, they've done it, you know, they've been doing it as the underdog the whole time. But now this pressure gets ratcheted up in a way that hasn't necessarily been there in the playoffs for some of these, for some of these Denver role players. and now we get to see what you're made of. And so getting that game is a massive deal in the grand scheme of things, whether it proves to be like the first domino in a championship series for the heat or not remains to be seen. But it is a big deal.

Well, following up on that, and I do want to talk about the discord that this decision made after the game. But first off, I want to get to, and I want to get Roger's perspective on how they, the heat guarded Yokic and not in game two versus how they, they, they, uh, guarded him in game one. Game, game two, they said something that you were, they basically did the, the defense that you said they were going to do at some point, Roger, where they're just going to have Yokch score. They're just, they're, and they're going to say he can score, we're, we're going to shut down everyone else in that, in that mode. Is that, is that effective long term? When you have, when you're going back to Miami, you have other guys.

that are unproven, you're going to be like, okay, the Yokic is going to get his. I don't trust these other guys to do anything else on the court. Is that a sustainable defensive strategy? Do the heat have an adage on that? How do you see that playing out? Well, that remains to be seen. And so would you ideally in a perfect world like the Joker to be under six assist? Yeah, the numbers bear that out. Look them up. They're not the same team when he's not able to distribute. He's a primary playmaker for them. So if you're able to, they only have two guys that can really make plays, right? And that's, that's Yolkich and Jamal Murray.

So if you're taking maybe the best playmaker in the league out of the equation, that's going to be helpful for you defensively. Now, the way they played him, you know, I didn't break it down. I watched it in a hotel room last night with my son and I didn't go over it on the plane this morning. But what I saw them do, so I can't tell you exactly what they were doing in terms of forcing him one way or the other. I'd be sitting here lying to you.

But what they did a really good job of and why he had to take a lot of it on himself was they got their assignments right around him, meaning you didn't see as many people overreacting to the Yokic drive or you didn't see as many blown coverages on offball, like, split actions. Like they were getting more of those right in a way that made, you know, Yokic have to make place for himself because he wasn't able to distribute to everyone else. Where in game one, they were blowing coverages left and right, the heat that is. You know, you saw, you know, you saw multiple times after Aaron Gordon got a couple buckets

in the mismatch where they were just blowing the switch and he was getting wide open dunks. They didn't have as many of those last night. And so when you're taking away his avenues to pass the ball because you're executing assignments defensively around him, it forces him to go get buckets. Someone's got to score these baskets, right? So, you know, that's what I saw in the man to man. And in terms of the zone, you know, they do a really good job. Like the nuggets basically just posted Yokic at the at the, at the Frito line.

Now, if you remember in the Boston series, I was talking about getting Tatum in some spots like that, right? Getting him behind the zone, not having me as the primary, you know, ball handler and the guy who ignites the offense, more in the finishing role. But I didn't mean just plan him at the free throw line so he's a stationary target, and the heat can just sit a little tiny guard in his lap.

Like, you can't do that with him either, right? So you've got to find a way. So in the zone, they basically neutralized him at times because they couldn't find ways to get it. him the ball. I think you got to move him around and get him into short corners a little bit. I think he has to be willing to move and not just, you know, plant at the, at the free throw line. So the zone gave him trouble last night and it'll remain to be seen. If they can limit his ability to help other people on that team get buckets, it's going to be a long series for them.

Howard, it's interesting because I wanted to talk about the discord after the game about this very question, right? And I want to bring up, um, A question that a friend of the show, Ramona Shaleburn asked Eric Spolster after the game. Basically the same question that I asked Roger, right? Like, how is your defensive strategy affected? How is your defensive strategy affect the game? It's basically what she was asking, Eric, Eric Spolster. And Spolster basically cut her off and was like, this is basically called a ridiculous question.

And Yolk is just great. and you can't stop them in all those things. I think what Ramona asked was very fair, but it does, I think the bigger question is it gets to the nuance of how these types of press conference settings are, right? You have a coach right after a game, who's still on adrenaline and you are a coach or a player, right?

And they don't necessarily want to give up any of their strategy or they don't want to, or they're just all the way on edge. What is that like from the reporter standpoint, Howard? And then I want to get Rod's perspective on one of his, from the player side on that way where you're like, you're in a question, you're asking a question that is a really good question. But we're in the heat of the NBA finals. What is it like from the reporters perspective, Howard? And how did you see that unfold? This is when I miss fellas the old

days pre-social media where even if the post-game press conference might be broadcast live and it wasn't always. You weren't immediately like clipped and put on social media. I already know he had a firepoint. Yeah, they're great point, bro. Hold on, go ahead. Go ahead.

Oh, no. Wait, your Wi-Fi kicked out. Can you guys hear me? Are you guys, are you guys hearing me? Hello? Hello, hello. You can hear you now, yes. Got you know.

Okay, go ahead. All right. Go from social media. Just go from social media and then you cut out from there. All right. I'll start it over. You guys, is that all right?

Can you guys hear me now? All right. No, this immediately made me miss the old days of pre-social media where even if we're on live TV, even if the postgame presser is broadcast live, there's no clipped, posted to social media, repeated, everybody else dissecting. Now it becomes a thing. Oh, you know, coach or players, shuts down reporter. Like that shit didn't used to exist. We could just ask our questions, which sometimes we ask gracefully, sometimes we stumble through. Sometimes it's a good premise. Sometimes it's something you're still just kind of workshopping. But I would just say for anybody who was like, I don't know, overreacting to that exchange. By the way, props is bolster for the theatricality of it all, right? He didn't just like say, oh, it's a ridiculous question.

He did the, I'm going to lean into my hand and put my fingers on my nose, like the exasperation that he was broadcasting, just even with his physical gestures. So fans and listeners, like when we're in a postgame press conference or the locker room or wherever else. Yeah, not every question is scripted out to perfection. You're kind of working through this on the fly because the game just ended. And you're testing theories. So the point of a question isn't to say, I know what the answer to this is. Here's my bulletproof premise that I just need you to validate for me, coach. It's this felt this way or it appeared this way. And you can agree, disagree, or otherwise. I don't care as the reporter.

The point for me is to get some insight that informs my story. And if my premise sucks and you tell me either nicely or impolitely that it sucks, or fine, cool. I will adjust accordingly. So the point isn't for the premise to be, you know, scientifically proven and, you know, published in an academic paper. This is what it looked like, Coach. What do you think?

So one, I think there was more to the validity of it than Spolster was willing to let on in that moment. Raja, you can tell me whether or not I'm right. on that. But two, sometimes I think, I think, I think, I think, I think Spolster got a little too cute with it. And this happens too. They don't want to get much away, Logan, to your point. He's not going to go chapter and verse on what that did to the nuggets. And especially if he thought it benefited him, he certainly isn't about to sit there and crow about it and double down on it and indicate that they're going to stick with that. So, but I want to ask Raj,

this. So here's my theory, Raja, because there was a stat, I'm going to pull this up real quick. The athletic had a line about the fact that Yokic had 31 points through the first three quarters and Denver was up 8375. And the point of that particular line in that story was, hey, Yokic as scorer, was doing just fine. They had an eight-point lead going into the fourth with him having scored 31. Okay, fair enough. But my theory is this, on why I do think this is a valid line of questioning and a valid theory about the outcome, which is this. I think, all right, fine, Yokic scores, these scores at a really high rate, really high efficiency, and their offensive rating for game two was essentially equivalent to their offensive

rating for game one. They didn't lose an offense. They lost on defense. But in that fourth quarter, when you needed scoring, if guys are not in rhythm because it's been all Yokic all the time, and this is a team that's always functioned at its best as an ensemble where everyone is moving and cutting and shooting and Yokic is just finding guys and picking the defense apart and you get to the fourth and now it's I'm not in rhythm

and I haven't shot in a while and I've shot poorly in Michael Porter Jr.'s case or somebody else and now all of a sudden you need to come through in the clutch I would argue that that would be harder. I would also say that there are guys, maybe not all of them, who are more engaged defensively when they feel really engaged offensively. So yeah, the offensive rating is there. Yeah, Yokch scored a really high efficiency.

Yeah, they still had an eight-point lead going into the fourth. But, Raja, am I right to believe that it still has an impact on the Nuggets when it's more of a Yokic scoring show than a playmaker show? 100%. The game's played, you know, in ebbs and flows, right? And so, you know, while it's all going good and they're playing you in a man and Yokch's carrying the offense and we're running around, it looks great. As soon as Miami flips into that zone and neutralizes his ability to catch that ball, Now I have to score. Now Logan's got to be able to get a bucket, and Howard's got to be able to get a bucket.

Not only are we not primary, like, creators for ourselves, you know, but we haven't now shot the ball in a while because they've been allowing, you know, for lack of better way to put it, Yokic to kind of get off, right? So we've been watching. And now we're like, yeah, go get it. Yokic isn't going to get a touch. We're just going to sit somebody in his lap and need the four of you guys to play around that perimeter.

Oh, by the way, they're not going to be layups or mid-ranges because we're packing the paint. we're going to need you to knock down these threes. And it absolutely plays a role in a shooter being able to lock in and knock down shots. That's why some guys are labeled like clutch and can big shot Bob. Some players just have a knack for no matter what they did through three quarters or even three and a half. Come down the last two, three minutes of a game if you need buckets, they're there. But that's not everybody. It's far less the norm than it is the exception to it.

And so that's kind of the way it is, right? It doesn't mean that they can't win with Yokic not scoring the ball. But when they need those buckets and they choose to jump into this zone, which you don't really have an answer for Yokic to produce offensively out of, no one else has been able to touch it in a while. Yeah, we got a problem unless we're just scorching hot. And that can happen too. But, yeah, look, for me, it's an interesting thing.

For me, I think it's more about the Denver Nuggets pace. whether Yokic is, I think Yokic has to be in the seven to eight assist range. I don't think he has that 15. I think he's got to have eight, seven, eight, nine, like he's moving the ball because he does orchestrate so much of what they're doing. But when when they can't defend and the heat are able to get that early show of pressure in the back court, right? And they're able to eat up seven seconds just getting you to across half court.

And now you're at 17 stepping across half court. By the time you get into any real scoring range, you're basically at 15 to 14. And now you're playing against a zone, which takes more time to kind of dice up because there are no clear lanes. We got to move the ball. I mean, they're grinding you down on each possession.

And now you're going to probably shoot a contested jump shot or floater or something like that. The pace of play has to be picked up for the nuggets. They have to score in a way that makes it really challenging for the heat, you know, to keep up. Now, the flip side of that is the heat. That's what they do, man. They muck it up. They make you scrap for everything. they fight you. They're going to try to grind you out, make you work for these possessions and score.

But the answer isn't necessarily for me in the does Yolkich score versus does the assist conversation. It's in, hey, man, can we pick the pace up and get the numbers up to where we're scoring upwards of 112 points a game consistently? 113. Put the on the heat to keep up with you versus like, you're going to play down here in the mud and now, you know, the heater in their wheelhouse. this reminds me a lot of like 14 15 calves after that's basically with the 14 15 calves that in the finals when kairi goes down kevin love is down they just muddied that series up right like that's just something that they that they ended up doing but i felt like when the warriors ended up getting a rhythm that's when they ended up winning they played it at their pace i think the thing that happens especially throughout this this postseason for the heat is they've been doing a great job from the bucks to the Knicks, to the Celtics, and now throughout this game, too, against the nuggets, where they force teams to play at their pace, right?

They, for whatever reason, they're able to muddy it up and dictate the terms of pace. Roger, how do the nuggets do that where they just make it their pace? They are the best team in this, the best team on paper and on the floor that we have left. How do they do that?

And why is it even a question of why, can't they push pace? They're the Denver Nuggets. They have the MVP to a lame is, why can't they just make that adjustment and beat a team that they're better than? Well, it's really interesting, right? Like the, you know, it starts on the defensive end for them. It starts on being able to get stops. Because being able to get stops does two things. The heat don't typically fall back into that zone after a stop. They get into it when you got to take it out of the, you know, out of the net, get it out of bounds. And now they got two guards up high.

And the reason that slows you down is because you don't want to turn a ball over. So you've got to like pass it a few times to get it across half court. So two ways that you could just speed it up off the bat is to get stops, execute better defensively. Denver blew a bunch of assignments last night on just basic off ball, you know, split actions that they had gotten right in game one. And they just kind of fell asleep at the wheel at times last night. So to get the stop so that they can't be in that two-man front and slow you down. now you can push the ball, right? The second would be, and I saw Yokic do it,

was even when they make a bucket and they imbounded it to Yokic, instead of playing around and passing it in the back court, he rifled that thing like skip past it across court diagonally all the way up the court. Now, the play didn't really result in anything, but if you can do that, now you're behind it in two, three seconds, right? And now they've only got three defenders back,

and you could basically play a small-sided game back there behind their two guards. And that would speed the tempo up too. Now, I can't guarantee you you'll get great shots out of that, but that's about the only thing you can do when you're giving up buckets and they're in that zone. So I think it starts on the defensive end for Denver, for sure. You take care of a bunch of problems if you limit their ability,

especially late. It's when the heat seemed to really want to get into it. And when it's, I mean, it gave Boston fits in the fourth quarter. It gave Denver fits last night. try to keep them boys from scoring the ball, man. Try to keep them from getting buckets, and you can keep your pace up. Howard, who wins game three and why?

Don't do game predictions. Game predictions are terrible. You're doing them here. We're doing them here. Series predictions is one thing, right? Like, all right, nuggets in six, whatever. Like, that's, you got a sense of sometimes of a series, although, by the way, I've been wrong so much this postseason in particular.

I've been kicking Raj's ass all postseason with predictions. I've been kicking his ass. Yeah, that's fair. Are the producers keeping track? Is there a scoreboard? No, we got to do that next year. We haven't done it yet. We didn't put the tally.

But just how vibes I definitely have been beating Roger. Anyways. This is not a prediction made on conviction. This is a prediction made on like what I think would be just the most fun. The heat win game three. The heat win game three. And then we can all do the freak out about we're the nudge. against paper tigers.

Is this going to negate everything that we all thought, oh, Yokoji's a two-time MVP? Well, it can't be three-time because he never made the finals. Oh, he's going to win a championship. That'll validate it. He should have been three-time MVP. Oh, wait, they're down two-one. That would be fun.

I love it. So, yeah, listen, I also, listen, legitimately, legitimately. I do think the heat going home, we know all the usual postseason axioms, right? role players better at home shooters shoot better at home heat in their comfort zone nuggets maybe having to deal with the south beach flu who knows and they're back on their heels a little bit like i do think it's it's truly interesting this is the first time the nuggets in this postseason have really had to deal with some sort of adversity or i don't want to say like crisis of confidence would be too strong

but just the idea that oh whoa our our invincibility has been been pierced momentarily here and they didn't really have to, they didn't really get knocked around much in the first few rounds. You know, they swept the conference finals. So if part of winning a championship is being tested and being knocked backward a little bit and having to kind of study yourself

and like, what are you truly made of? Well, we'll find out now. And I do think the heat, like, man, like the fact, I've never seen a team that consistently can be like down in a series or in the case of in the Celtic series where it's like, oh, we're up three, oh, no, we lost one. Oh, we know we lost another one. Oh, we're about to be the first team in NBA history to blow a three-o lead. We're good. We're fine. Yeah. Like, the swagger they have, even when they're at their worst, is just

ridiculous. To me, like, it would, again, would not surprise me in the least if they win game three. And it'd be the most fun outcome. Yeah, I mean, honestly, man, this series needs to be interesting. So I'm going to, I want the heat to win this game. I want the heat to win this game. I want the heat to win this game because honestly, Rajah, I just want chaos. I want us to come back and just come back. Well, you're not going to be here on Thursday, but you know what I mean? Come back on Thursday, and we just come back and we just talk, we have some shit to talk about as opposed to this was what was supposed to happen. You know, the nuggets were supposed to win it. They looked down on it. No, fuck that. Roger, I want chaos. What do you want to see in game

three. If you both won an interesting series, you don't want the heat to win game two. I mean, game three. I think I get what he's saying.

I know what he's saying because he says if they're going to win, they're going to win the whole thing. If they win game three, Denver has a problem. Denver has a problem because it's a fair point. It's a fair point.

I think that I'm not worried about Yoki. I'm worried about I'm not really worried about Jim Paul, I'm worried about everything else. I'm worried about everything else. I'm worried about Jr., KCV, Eric Gordon,

that's what you're worried about. You're down 2-1. Miami's going to be buzzing. You got to stay in town. You got game 4. The crowd's going to be electric. I am worried about some of those boys and to face it at down 2-1.

So I think Denver's going to win game 3. And since I'm pulling for a good series, I'm going to pick Denver to win game 3 in Miami. And I do think Miami wins game 4. because I just think that whatever Spoh does, again, I did not break down every play of that game. I have not watched it with a true scout's eye. But damn it if Eric Spolstra, after a loss, isn't better than anybody in the business at sitting down,

figuring out what they're going to change, not being afraid to do it, and then clearly articulating it and making sure everybody on his team knows it. And they generally get that right. So I'll take Denver in three and a heat in four. I think one way or the other, it's two to going back to Denver, right? Would everybody agree on that one way or another? Yeah, definitely. Let's take a quick break.

And then we're going to talk about some free agency rumors. What's up, Logan and Raja, Jummy coming to you with a pack watch. I know it's a little late. You know, I was out. Eurochip 2023 in France all over Europe out there being an American boy don't worry I was locked in on the NBA action and we're funny due to the packwatch of all pack watches we're gonna get the two biggest franchise in the NBA history out of here now let's start with the OG the greatest the goat start with the Lakers

ah it's tough it's grim the Lakers got sweat by the nuggets and you know people argue i was a close sweet man they fall hard i every single game was within single ditches in the fourth quarter was always a one-position game it's always close sweet was a sweet bring out the dust bring out the brooms bring out the dust pants it's over it's so rap man a brawn on one leg gave it all he could but at the end of the day wasn't enough de lo it's been uh it's been a long time indeed DeAngelo Russell is still loading. It's, ah, it's grim.

It's grim. There's no way to put it. You know, if you're a lake, you got to look at it. You're like, ah, you know what? What could have been? Austin Reeves, he did his best. You know what I'm saying? But it just wasn't,

wasn't it to be when KCP was hitting threes and crypto like he'd never hitting stable before. They should have changed the name a long time ago. Look, at the other day, you got to, you know, it's not the end of the world. The Lakers still sent Bob Myers to the crib and ended the Warriors' dynasty. So that's fine. So let's really get into it, though.

Let's really get to where we wanted to talk about, who we wanted to really back up today. The Boston Celtics. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, everybody in the sound of my voice. What we just saw over the last two weeks was, frankly, some of the most pathetic basketball we've seen in a long time. Let's really think about it, right? So just go down on three. Okay. We hear that Joe Mozilla's out there watching the town instead of watching film.

Okay. He's locked in on Affleck and Renner and John Hamm instead of watching the heat zone. Okay. Come back 3-3. You're at the grip. Right? You got to get it done. You got to get it done.

And what happens? They blow it. At home, game seven. I'm in France at 5 a.m. Watching the most pathetic excuse for basketball scene in a minute. Check this out. At this point, we got to start calling Jalen Brown a UPS truck because he don't go left.

What's happening? What's going on? I know Jason Daynam had to hurt ankle, like on the first play of the game. You know, that definitely changes things. But when you got a guy who is up for it, can make $60 billion in a year and he can't he can help y'all get to victory like oh what about watching what am i looking at now you say oh johnie man he got you got to get it they came back down three zero no man you're supposed to be that heat team look far in the last seven years right

the boston seltzes have been the five eastern conference finals and got one finals of for it all, for all of it. We got us asking questions, bro, about that entire operation. What's going on? And we are back. Rogers is already laughing about what we were about to discuss.

Some news came on the wire this morning. First, I think it was from BR and then also from the athletic. Kairie Irving, who is a free agent now. last play for the Dallas Mavericks is putting his recruiting hat on. He's on the campaign trail. He has a straw hat, an old school Nike straw hat

that's really, really huge. He has the shorts on. He has his whistle. He's doing some croutin. And he made a call to one LeBron James asking him about the prospects of LeBron potentially demanding a trade. Stop.

We're finding his way to Dallas to form a big three with this LeBron James Jr. Right. Yeah, this is LeBron James Senior. We're talking about Brony, my bad. This is LeBron James Sr.

Going to Dallas to pair with Luca Dachas and Kyrie Irving. First of all, first of all, what damn recruiter were you, what recruiter were you like trying to have us visualize with a damn straw hat and a whistle?

Who the hell are you recruiting you? You know that? You know they football recruiters be having the straw hats and shit and have the fucking whistles on. You know the recruiting coordinators have those. Stop playing, man. You know you was outside,

especially in South Florida. That's all they wear. They wear the dry socks, the old gym shorts. Yeah, man. There's some Cortezes. How many balls are they going to roll out? How many balls are they rolling out in Dallas?

Let me ask you that. How many balls y'all got, Kyrie? How many basketball is going to be on the court at any given time? Oh, my, like, not even touch on all of the other shit that is LeBron James's world is empire, is life.

I'm not even going to touch on any of the outside. How many goddamn basketballs are you all going to roll out? If we got a new game breaking out and there are

three balls out there and I haven't been informed that of the rule changes, God bless. If y'all still playing under the old NBA rules, bro, what are we talking about? Howard, under,

from a scale of one to 15, how delusional is this plan? on a scale of one to 15 like 2007 like what are we talking about I mean look

I've been covering this league for 26 years I feel like I have seen everything in some way, shape or form but the Twitter alert popped up whenever it was an hour and a half two hours ago I'm sitting here in my home office by myself laughing. I'm laughing out loud to nobody in particular. There's nobody to hear. Why am I

laugh? There's nobody to hear me laugh. I just, I can't help it. I'm looking at this. I'm dying. And then some of the details surrounding it are even funnier, including, and look, I'm not, by the way, I'm not blaming Chris Haynes or Shams for the reporting. They are getting what they're getting. It's legit. But the people who are giving this information to them, either they are delusional or they are delivering the delusion from another party. We know who that would be. But I think one of them floated to the idea that maybe LeBron would get a buyout from the Lakers and then go in free age. It's like, what?

Like the machinations. Like, Raja, I'll do respect to the three basketball's issue, certainly an existential problem that would potentially have to be faced. But long before we get to that, how does LeBron get to Dallas? He's not getting a buyout. So it would be a trade. what possible combination of mavericks that do not involve Luca himself or Kyrie because Kyrie is the one who wants to bring him there

what possible combination of Mavericks are you acquiring in a trade if you're the Lakers like this is D-O-A and the DOA is not even dead on arrival this is like dumb on arrival Yes this is like this shit you know what this does this hurts my brain like it hurts my brain

that's why I laughed what I saw it like it's just so profoundly stupid by the way not for nothing, but it was Kyrie who just a couple weeks ago went on Instagram live with a plea to everybody to stop talking about his offseason and what he might do and leave me out of it. I just want to be left alone. Like, dude, this is your camp, man. This ain't this ain't coming from anywhere else, but Kyrie Irving or his representatives.

There's no one else who is possibly floating this. So like, just stop, please. Like, I'm sure Adam Silver loves this, right? Just to put this in the context, man. Just to put this in the context. This is coming down on a summer where the. league is actively trying to use this new CBA

to break up such teams. That summer, in the summer where that happens, LeBron is not going to go to Dallas. Also the fact, and Rajah alluded to this, uprooting your family from Los Angeles, after you've made some real roots, I don't think

LeBron has made real roots in a city in the way that he's made in Los Angeles since like he was in Cleveland. He is firmly entrenched in L.A. His son is, bro, his son just committed to USC just for the simple reason that they're all staying in LA, man. There is no reason that Kyrie Irving of all people is going to convince LeBron James after their history that, oh yeah, I trust you for sure. This is definitely the move.

Yeah, you're right. I trusted what you're doing. I trusted this whole operation going to happen, even if the rules suggested like, hey, we can't, like, we can figure this out. We can get all three of your massive salaries into one salary cap. we're going to figure it out. That would require LeBron's trusting Kyrie to just be stable for his season. That is not going to happen, right, Roger? There's no way that that happens, even if it was the case that they could figure this out from a financial standpoint.

Also, you think LeBron taking a pay cut? You think LeBron going to take a buyout? LeBron James, the capitalist that we know, who makes all of his brain, he ain't never missed a meal, just he been in the NBA. You think that that's going to happen? The list of reasons. outside of the scope of being on the basketball court that would make this a non-starter

is too long for me to even get into. And so for that reason, I will not talk about this anymore. I refuse. Producers be damn. This is absolutely absurd. I'm not, I will not do this.

I'm not doing it. I'm on strike. I'm effectively on strike. I'm effectively on strike. Like, I don't know. What are we talking about? Ross. I could.

Roger is a better person than you and me, Logan. Listen, I could sit here. You won't even indulge it. I can't even indulge it. Because Roger lived it. It's because Roger lived it. I did live that. I lived that.

And Roger's getting so many, any memories just like coming in his brain about just like shit, he can't even speak on. Is this like Kyrie PTSD for you? Yeah. It wasn't just Kyrie. We had a, the year I was in Cleveland, that was an interesting year, man. Because, you know, Kevin Love and LeBron were still trying to figure it out together. We had Dion Waiters for a while who I had some really interesting

conversations with him in regards to how he fit into the mix. Then we traded Deion and we got JR and Imman and there was a lot going on. So that was an interesting kind of hey, get in there and swim, Raj. We got to figure out how this works type of experience. But as far as this one goes,

I could sit here all day. I literally sit here all day writing down reasons why this is a non-starter. It can't work or it's impossible. And I'd and I probably wouldn't get them all out. Is this really about Kyrie thinking, like, this is another way of putting the pressure on the Mavs and Lakers to figure out how to get Kyrie to L.A.?

Like, is that what this is? Is this like three-dimensional chess? I don't even know. It can't be about LeBron to Dallas, because Raj is right. We shouldn't even indulge it. There's a bazillion reasons why that'll never happen. But there's something at work here. Yeah, that's interesting, though.

Like, that's an interesting. And, you know, I've said, on record. Does it have to be Kyrie? No, it's got to be something like Kyrie for me with the Lakers, something that can do at least at least be a poor man's version of

Kyrie in terms of playmaking and just being able to kind of facilitate and break defenses down. I think they need another guy like that. So that would be interesting to me. From a Mavs perspective, and not necessarily Kyrie. I'm thinking about Luca right now where this isn't the type of

headlines you're trying to see right now man after all the shit that you've gone through all this season and in the ensuing years leading up to this I can't help like it'll be a monumental bag dropped if

the if the mouse fuck this up with Luca but like how do you feel if you're Luca when you're hearing rumors like this where make no mistake about it. Kyrie can like leak all this stuff and do all these things but it is not his team and the Mavis will never be his team or to the current construct, and he's trying to act like it is.

When you see this, Howard, how does Luca feel about something like this where, like, it's just, it's, he's getting the first taste of just a distraction that Kyrie brings in general. Like, he's just going to be a distraction that has nothing to do with basketball. And the reward is not worth the risk.

We've seen this years and years. Howard, how does, how could that be a effect? Could this affect their star player? going forward in the coming years. I'm not sure how anything could make Luca more concerned about the viability of the Mavericks and their plans around him than what he already just experienced a couple months ago, right? Like the way that they fell into that tailspin after acquiring Kyrie, and again, I always qualify this.

Not Kyrie's fault. He didn't construct the trade. The Mavericks shipped out, Doreen Phiney, Smith, Spencer, Dinwiddie. they bring in Kyrie short time to get acclimated. All the reports, all the chatter out of Dallas has been that Kyrie was fine. So I'm not saying Kyrie's responsible for the tailspin, but the tailspin does happen. It happened. They missed the playoffs.

They missed the play in. And nothing, if I'm Luca, is more concerning than that. Everything else is just, you know, one more reason to roll your eyes a little bit. But yeah, I mean, look, from the moment that you decide that the franchise decides to bring in Kyrie, and given his recent history, you already have to be concerned. You know, like, okay, maybe we'll be the place where he settles in and doesn't rock the boat and doesn't create a stir, doesn't do anything to distract from the basketball, doesn't do anything to upset the chemistry. But you've already lost a bunch of games, you've already missed the

playoffs, and now there's something like this. And something like this, well, this will end up ultimately be just a blip on the off-season radar. By the time you get to next season, assuming Kyrie's still a Maverick, I think you're always always bracing at this stage, whether you're Luca, whether you're Jason Kidd, whether you're the front office. The moment you decide to get into the business of Kyrie Irving, you are bracing yourself for the possibilities of what might happen. And maybe none of that stuff will come to pass in Dallas. Maybe this will be his last stop and everything will be peaceful and everything will be fine and they'll just win games and it'll be just about basketball.

I kind of doubt it. Rodgers turning. Rod's wheels of turning. I would just say, I mean, the Mavericks front office, the Mavericks in general, when dealing with Kyrie, it is stay ready so you don't have to get ready. Because it's always, you know, it's just always right there on the verge of being some bullshit. And I say that affectionately. He just has a lot going on. Like, it doesn't all have to be nefarious or bad. Like, he's just got a lot of stuff going on with him.

So to ever put your guard down in a way that you would feel like comfortable, would just not be prudent. If you were dealing, if you're in the Kyrie business, it's just not a prudent thing to do. Kyrie is, Howard, Kyrie is 31 years old, which is wild to consider.

How many more years can we, because me and Roger talk about this all the time in terms of like Kyrie's ability being so intoxicating that you're like, yep, I want that on my team until you get him in your building. You're like, oh, he's on our team. How many more years,

he's 31 years old, he has a history of injuries. How many more years will he get the benefit of the doubt of that to where like, oh, yeah, he's tantalizingly great. We need him in our building. We'll figure it out when we get here. How many more years do you think that he has that benefit of the doubt? It's a great question, and I think it's an important question and a couple quick notes on this.

So you always hear this like Kyrie's, so other players love Kyrie, whether they've played with them or not. And former teammates even, you see all the hugs with the Celtics every time he sees them. And I would just say this. It's one thing for former teammates to say, you know what, we still love Kyrie and everything else and respect the hell of him as a basketball player, his abilities, everything. It's another thing to say you want to actually play with him. And like ask those same Celtics off the record whether they would want to bring him back. I'm guessing they'd say no. I make this comparison as as carefully as I can. And I'm not saying this is a perfect

comparison. But the outline of where Kyrie is right now, to your question, Logan, how many more times at this stage of his career can this happen or how many more chances does he get? How many more teams are willing to take a swing and take the risk? It's reminded me of the later years of Stefan Marbury, which I covered here in New York. Very different guys. And I don't want to, again, I do not want to make this comparison in any like, it's not an exact comparison. It's not precise. But what happened to the the at the end with Marbury. And the end was also like early 30s. Marbury was still in his prime. He was not physically breaking down. He was still playing at a very high level. But teams just wore out on him. The Knicks wore out on him. He went to Boston. They wore out on him.

There were no offers. And again, very different cases in a bunch of other ways. But both ball dominant point guards who just were just tough on their surroundings, tough on on coaches and teammates and everything else. And eventually, no matter what your skill level is, and Marbury had incredible talent, at some point, teams just say, you know what, there are easier ways to go. We'll find guys with less talent, but less headaches.

And, like, that's the story of this league sometimes. Like, you can't be, your problems can't be bigger than your talent. And I fear that's where this is going for Kyrie Irving, potentially, because there can only be so many messy exits. wasn't a great exit from Cleveland. It was definitely a messy exit from Boston, a very messy exit from Brooklyn. And I don't know where things are going to go in Dallas, but eventually patience runs out. Eventually everyone's tolerance runs out. And I don't know where this is going for Kyrie, but that's the first thing you reminded me of. Look, you're right. Howard, you're right.

what that cat does with a ball, what he does with the basketball, when you see it up close and personal, it's almost breathtaking. I sat there watching him. I wasn't that far removed from having played in the NBA. So it's not like now where I would come in and be like, man, you know, that's incredible. I haven't touched the ball in a decade. But at the time, I wasn't that far removed. And I thought it was just me until LeBron sat down like on the bench,

next to me, and I heard him marveling at what he was doing. And then he went out and started asking Kyrie, like, how he was putting the English on it and stuff like that. And I only say all of that to say that there does come a time when you're not worth it, for sure. But seeing what he does and seeing what he could do with the ball, given the opportunity last year, that is still a super intoxicating talent, man. And there's always, there's always going to be that guy out there that thinks he can save it, you know? It's just the way it goes. Until there isn't, right?

And when there isn't, once it's done, like Marbury, I mean, it's a wrap. They'll shut the door on you. But I don't think that's for a couple years. That's not for, you know, that's for some years down the road with him, because that's still crazy what he does. We're getting closer, though, right, Raja? Yeah. Look at the, like, I always do this exercise.

If there's a player who I'm not sure about their longevity anymore, I look at the teams that already had them and that are not going to go down that path again, you scratch them off. Then I look at all the teams that are already set at the position or that have the requisite talent already. Now I'm scratching them off. Then I'm looking at teams whether or not they have a need or they're at the right stage of the development, right? Like, oh, the Orlando Magic. Orlando's not getting in the Kyrie Irving business. The Pistons aren't getting in the, you know, you start looking at teams with Cap Room. You can start crossing off a lot of teams really quickly. And the next thing you know, you're just run out of options. This is true. No, this

is true. This is true until you start like drastically dropping the price and then that equation with talent and and price. You know what I mean? Like so I agree with you 100%. It's a lot. Kyrie on that mid-level exception looks very nice. What? What? People are going to

be like, yeah, we can work that out. Or at least give it a run. No, teams will talk themselves into a lot of stuff. That is true and it's for the right price for sure. Speaking of intoxicating talent fumbling the bag, I just want to get quick rapid fire real quick on

Jaaman. That was for you, Roger. Over under, how many games do you think he's going to get before we get out of here? Howard, I'll start with you, and I'll ask Roger how many you probably deserves. I think people are getting a little ahead of themselves with these like half-season predictions,

especially Adam Silver, who has been lighter on the disciplinary measures than his predecessor by far. I don't know. I mean, this is a completely uneducated guess. pulling a number out of thin air, I say 25. What would David Stern have given him, Roger? Oh, yeah, Davis, you could pencil and win half a season with David Stern.

David, real talk to David Stern. Have you ever, like, Roger, real quick, have you ever, like, talk to David Stern about a suspension? Like, what was that like? What was he like when it was time to give a suspension out? David Stern did not like me. And to be quite frank, the feeling was mutual. I mean, you know what I mean? Like I never had one good deal in with David Stern when it came to disciplinary action.

So it was just, you know, like I didn't really know him personally. But he made it clear that any time there was an infraction on my part and I was close to that line, I did not get the benefit of the doubt. And so that shaped my opinion of David Stern. Sorry, sue me. No, I think 20. I would have said 20. I would have said 20.

Howard might be right on the 25. I would he serve eight for the for the last yeah and and so you know you kind of force Adam's hand I don't know but Adam Silver's putting it on thick like he's talking about it during the finals I mean obviously he was asked about it so like I can't I can't smirsched for doing that but like he is putting it on thick like he is going to lay down the gauntland and I and I know people in the league are just telling people oh yeah watch out for a long suspension watch out watch out everyone there the tea leaves of that is going to be a long suspension. It is, but I don't know. Like, I don't know how, I don't know. There's no president. Is there a

president for this? I don't think there is. For a star player of this caliber at this beginning of the season, I don't, I don't know. No, and there's also no precedent involving, like, even the Gilbert arenas, like, analogies are imperfect because Gilbert Arinas brought guns onto team, into team facilities. That's not the same thing as being seen on social media waving a gun around for the second time in a couple of months. But Adam's response in the pre-finals press conference was interesting because, one, he said a lot more than you normally expect him. Like, he basically said we've come to a decision, which is inviting every reporter on Earth to now try to ferret it out because he basically said, we know what we're going to do. We're just waiting until after the

finals are over. Even saying that out loud, it in itself becomes a story, which was shocking to me, because Adam's usually a little bit more veiled and disciplined than that. But also, he made it clear that he and the union had discussed this at length and that it sounds like this was a joint decision, or at least a decision that the union, it seems like, has already signed off on. I don't want to assume too much, but that's kind of the impression I got. So that also suggests that there's not going to be, like the union won't be challenging this or trying to litigate it in any way.

So that's interesting. And maybe it means that Jha himself already knows. exactly what it is and has already been told what it is. It has already accepted it on some level. All of that's possible. Again, I'm just speculating. But those seem like logical conclusions based on what Adam said. And the only reason I think it's going to go long, Raja, is like, because he got the eight games and when Adam was asked in that press conference, hey, like, looking back, was it not enough? Did it not make enough of an impression? And Adam, like, to his credit, was like kind of honestness. It says, you know, if it happened again, maybe it wasn't. Like, maybe that's what that suggests.

And he's clearly feeling burned by the fact that Jha went down the same road again. So, you know, 25 games is about whatever, two months, right? Like an average month is like somewhere between like 13 to 15 games. So two months, that'll make an impression. But yeah. I mean, they, he's got to, man. This is one of the candidates for face of the league moving forward. forward. And you can't have, you can, as a league, like, let's just take out the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and his life and, and, and all the ramifications for the people in it and so on and so forth. Just from a business standpoint for the league, say the face of your franchise after multiple warnings is still out there messing around with guns and, and, and someone gets killed or shot. Let's say they don't even die. Let's see someone gets shot. Just messing around with the damn gun.

Yeah. Like you have to, you got to do something if you're in the league. You have to. There's more to it than that, too, by the way. Like, let's we forget all that reporting by the Washington Post and the athletic and others about all those other incidents. Oh, for sure. The league's concern goes beyond just him waving a gun around on Instagram. Like, their concern is about his behavior overall over the last couple of years and his judgment, the way he's carrying himself, period.

So whatever the league's ultimate decision here is that we will learn about in the next couple of weeks, I'm going to, again, I'm making some assumptions here, but I'm willing to bet baked into whatever that suspension is, is all this other stuff. Even though some of that stuff remains in the public sphere unresolved, it's all part of the league's concern that they're trying to grapple with here. Well, it's absolutely has to be because it's all, you know, it's all pattern of behavior. and it all is leading to the same eventuality of some kind of catastrophe that is a, you know, we tried to avoid, we've been in your camp, we've talked to the people in it, we've tried to, you know, help you break habits. And, you know, we're in business with you in a way that we're not with many players.

You know, we got you on every damn broadcasts and the commercial, you know what I'm saying? This is a partnership. You're putting that shit in jeopardy with all of that that you just talked about, Howard. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you brought up something really quickly Howard, and I want to ask both of you this real quick. You brought up the fact that Adam Silver is going through with the Players Association. They're on a line, specifically with the suspension. How does that compare and contrast to how David Stern dealt out because suspension?

Was he more of just like, yo, I think this. We'll figure out the other shit later. This is the suspension. Or was he, was he, did he work with the Players Association to? figure out a, what does it compare and contrast the two approaches to this with these two commissioners? The league and the union have gotten to a much more collaborative place on all fronts, right? And we've seen that in the labor piece. We've seen that in the way that they just tackle certain issues together overall. And that started with Adam coming in at the same time as Michelle

Roberts and now is extended to Adam and Tamika Tramalia, who is now the executive director of the Players Association for the last year and a half. So, like, part of the- of this is just the era we're in. And you can attribute some of that to Adam instead of David or to the union leadership today versus what the, you know, versus Billy Hunter back in the day. But like, yeah, I mean, Logan, to your question, like, I don't think David ever consulted anybody on anything. David, you know, as our friend, as our, as our friend Vinnie Goodwill likes to call him the emperor, like David just like, he had his lieutenants and he would take into account everybody's input and then he'd say, boom, this is what we're doing. And, no.

I don't think, I could be wrong. Somebody may tell me later that David consulted Billy Hunter on something back in the day, but I won't believe it unless someone's got it on paper. So no, I don't think that was the case. Part of why I thought it was so fascinating when Adam's response was, we've been discussing with this with the union. We've learned a lot more information than what the public knows. We have reached some conclusion, and he involved the union in that sentence.

I don't have his quote in front of me, but he basically indicated that this was a discussion with them. Now, again, I could be misreading that. I could be, maybe it's simply I made this decision, and I have informed the union of it ahead of time. And if they want to litigate it, if they want to appeal, if they want to try to take it to arbitration, they can do that later. But I got the impression that this was a conversation and a collective assessment rather than the old school David Stern way of just saying, Kaboom, bang the gavel. I don't know how David Stern did it.

You just know you didn't like it. I just know that shit ain't never work out for me. I want to know what those conversations were like, how many F-bombs do you drop on you, Raja? No, never dealt with him. Never? Nope. Because I got him. No, did you really? Oh, yeah.

Never dealt me. He called me unmanly once, I believe. What? What did he call? What was this? That was the Kobe incident. He called me unmanly. And then he went out of his words.

Like through other people? Does that through other people? He said that in the media. Pretty sure. And then called it an unmanly act or something like that. And then he just went out of his way to suspend me or find me whenever he could. That was his thing. So, hey, good for you, bro.

God rested. I got no, listen, I didn't know him personally. So it's not like, it's just my experience. David, David was amazing. He was unique. Honestly, he, he eff-bombed the shit out of me a few times. What's your story? Tell us the time that you got cursed out by David Stern.

I mean, I got a few. I'll do two quick ones. I'll do two quick ones. The one, the clean one is because it was in public. During the lockout in 2011, we're on like the fucking day of 132 or whatever it is, another one of these late night press conferences. And David and Adam are sitting there. And the league has just tried to promote this idea that if the union doesn't take this bad deal that they've already rejected 50 times, we will supplant it with an even worse deal. And so, So I asked the question, and this is a press conference, this is on camera somewhere, like, it's still on tape somewhere. I said, David, if you're, if the league, if the unit has already rejected the offer and if they don't take it within three days, or whatever the deadline was, you're going to replace it with the worst one. Obviously, they're just going to reject that one too. So where does that actually get you? And he puts on that haughty, condescending David Stern tone. And he says, well, Howard, I don't have your collective bargaining experience and your crystal ball, but. And then he went into his. whatever the rest of his answer. But he just fucking obliterated me. So when the press conference is over, the cameras are off and everything else. And we always do this thing where we all walk up to the table afterward and just go,

like, shoot the shit with David and Adam and whatever. And I walk up, I look at David with a big smile on my face. I'm like, David, you don't know, man. I got phenomenal collective bargaining negotiating experience. I'm great. He was not having it. He did not think that was even funny. He was just like really pissy.

He did not like being called out on live TV, is essentially what that was. On anything. The F bomb, the biggest F ball, I got a couple of them. But the biggest one was, you guys remember when the Knicks acquired Eddie Curry and he had all these heart concerns? He had a hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, a phrase that I never could have said out loud until that had happened. And I had to write about it and talk about it. So the Bulls had decided they would not give Eddie Curry a new contract because they were worried that he might actually. actually die playing basketball. That was their premise. But they signed and traded them to the Knicks,

which created this whole of the problem for the league, because if your teams don't all have the same standard for what is too risky of a health concern, especially if it's one that's potentially life and death, that's a problem. So they created a bunch of new guidelines, standards for all the teams to abide by. When I wrote about that and quoting a bunch of, like, you know, doctors, hard experts, you know, whoever researchers. David hated the story. This was why I was working at the New York Times. And of course, the one thing we know,

David read the New York Times like cover to cover every day. Like that's his hometown paper, the paper of record, all that stuff. It mattered more what was written in the Times. I'm not giving myself credit. The Times mattered more to David than any other publication. And I don't remember what it was I wrote that day. But I got the phone call. He calls up and just like rips the crap out of me for like 10 straight men.

minutes hangs up. And I'm talking to somebody from MBAPR the next day. I can't remember if it was Tim Frank or Mike Bass, but they're kind of laughing like, yeah, David said he really let you have it yesterday. But they said it in a way like David was laughing about it later. Like, I think he just does this for sport, basically. Like, that was his thing. Like, he just loved to fucking unload and intimidate you a little bit and see if you could, if you could hold up. And I will just say as a postcript, in the years after he had retired, and I still, you know, we talked every so often, a couple of stories I wanted to do. He wouldn't want to go on the record. He would just say, listen, I'm just going to give you an education. It would always be that way, by the way. Let me just educate you, Howard,

on the history of the league. And those conversations were phenomenal. He was always, like, absolutely, like, willing to, like, explain things. And, like, it didn't matter what you went through with him. It was all just, like, sport to him. Or it was just what he thought he had to do in the moment or what he thought he had to say in the moment. So I'm sure it probably wasn't even personal with Raja when he called. him on manly in a public setting. One person to one side, Rosal wanted to go.

It was like, where the fucking flight to New York? What's up? What's up? That was good, man. At the time, at the time, you know,

I understood. Well, no, I don't understand the manly. I mean, the suspension, obviously, with the, with the COVID thing,

that was, that was understood. I got that. But there were a couple of other ones that I didn't necessarily understand. I digress. It's, it's, come on.

I just got off a plane. Let me give. Come on. That was our, that was our Monday edition of real ones with, Howard motherfucking Beck friend of the show

come back anytime we'll see you soon we'll see Raja next week at some point When's Howard coming When's Howard are we penciled in When Howard's coming back I just need to put that on the calendar I just need to make sure

I won't give you a voice Are you gonna duck me again the next time Just give me a heads up Oh he ducking to smoke Oh man All right man We'll see you guys on Thursday day tap in, ah, all the shits. Bye.