The Ringer NBA Show - Impressions From Week 1 of the NBA Season | Real Ones

Episode Date: October 25, 2021

Logan and Raja discuss their impressions from the first week of the NBA season, including how much you can really take away from the results, the differences between young and old teams, and what the Nets and Lakers look like so far (0:30). Then they talk about the young players who have caught their eye early on, including one man, Ja Morant, who has been playing out of his mind (29:10). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The ringer gambling show is here to help you place your bets on the biggest sports around the world. Join NFL analyst Warren Sharp on Mondays and Fridays with guests Chris Vernon, Ben Solac, and Joe House to guide you through the NFL betting landscape. Each week, they'll cover everything from spreads, game totals, and parlays to player props, futures, post-game reactions, and more. Check out the ringer gambling show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. What's popping? Lugman Murdoch here, Roger Bell, there, real ones. Monday edition. Ra, how you doing, Doug? good watching watching games again um you know football season coming to an end for my youth so i'm

kind of more dialed in than i than i've had a chance to be so i'm ready to go how are you doing good good good um let's see youngest one had a rough season he was in a you know a little park a little starter park middle one team's probably going to play for the super bowl they're like 12 and oh right now and the oldest one had his first varsity tv on friday tv on friday yes my little homie is he the eighth grader? Is that the eighth grader? Yeah, first varsity TD on Friday night. You know, man, Manning Passing Academy, all the folks, Elite 11, go check

out Roger's son, please, because the man is out here, ball. He's an eighth grade playing varsity football. We are going to get this dude a five star just off the platform. We're just going to sell all the propaganda, and we go, let's just get him in. Let's get him in the scholarship. Where are you going to go? University of Miami?

Where are we going to get him? You know what? You know what's crazy? This is, I mean, we went to the Miami game on Saturday. night. NC State was favorite, right? Big ESPN game. It would have been like the highlight of my youth, right? Like getting to go to one of those games.

But he was like, I don't get down with Miami like that. Like, they just haven't been good in his lifetime. Yeah. You know, it's sad for me. I feel you. They celebrated the 01, like it was the 20-year anniversary to 0-1 national championship team. Like my sons could. They were like, nah, straight.

Damn. I'm sorry, man. Well, you know what? Hey, man, we're going to still put the U.S. It's all good. Now, now, now, We spoke about pre-show about the games this, the NBA games this weekend. And one thing that I've been trying to figure out is how to assess the first week of an NBA season.

Because I admittedly am somebody that I'm just going to go off the fence either way, right? Now, I see the Warriors are 3 and 0. I think they're going to win a championship. I see the Lakers are 1 and 2. I think that they're not getting to the first round. those are the thoughts that pop into my head in the first week. And then you look back and you go into the totality of all these things, of all that goes into these games and in these teams.

I'm thinking about the Nets who we're going to talk about, thinking about the Lakers who we're always going to talk about. And you see them at face value in the first week of the season. You're like, damn, these teams, these teams suck. These teams aren't good. They're not realizing any of their expectations. But then you take a look back and you see some things. and you have a bit different of an idea.

Raja, how as a former NBA player do you normally assess the first week of a season? I don't put a lot of stock in it. This is tough. This is a very nuanced conversation because there are some teams that you would put stock in it, right? Like you would buy stock because they come out. Typically, I think not an older team, but like a matured team.

See, young, really young teams, it's hard for me to put a lot of stock in what's happening early in the season, right? Like because, you know, like you just don't know, they could come out of the gates quicker because they got more energy. There's more youth there. Like, they're just ready to go. And it is a marathon. So if you're sprinting out of the gates, you know, sometimes that's not the greatest thing to do, right?

Older teams like the Lakers, I don't put a lot of stock in that either because, you know, just the flip side of that argument. Like, they already know what the deal is. stuff. But like teams like the heat, let's say, they come out of the gates looking good. Teams like, teams like Golden State that come out of the gates looking good. I trust that. I think that they are very good teams. They're solid. They're well built. The style of play is what's winning the games. It's not just because, like, no disrespect to the Bulls. I love the Bulls, because I'm a Lonzo Ball fan, I'm a Zach Levine fan, DeMarrozen, and Alex Caruso.

I like all of those dudes. But there may be something to the fact that. they haven't really played anybody yet. Right. There's a little bit of that. I think what I look at is they, you know, something that I've, you know, thought about over the weekend is something that I, I tend to look at is how do they,

how does the, what is the potential of this team? What can you see this team going? What is the ceiling of this team? Now, are they getting into their, are they finding where to go and getting into their sets? I'm going to, we're going to get to the Bulls in a second

because I do want to talk about the Bulls today. But I was watched, I think the biggest example of both sides of this, was the Lakers Grizzlies game last night, where I've been hard on the Lakers, but I think the Lakers are going to be just fine. And the reason why I think so is because I see the Lakers doing some really nice things, right?

And I see them going on runs and Mello is playing peak Mello right now. Like, well, in this iteration of his career, when he's hitting threes, he's off the bench, he's three to the domes. I'm in like four different Laker group chats. and the variance in how people feel about Mello is hilarious. But you see them getting into sets. You see them making runs.

And you see where their mistakes are, are end of quarters, or not being able to close out quarters, or not being able to close out runs. And I think that that's just a thing of – that's just a sign that they just haven't played together for a long time. They don't know each other yet. But by and large, together, that is a good basketball team, in my opinion. And so their 1 and 2 record doesn't really seem like too much, right? It doesn't see, I feel like especially with their schedule coming up, that they're going to be fine. Now, you reference the Bulls and their 3 and O played the Pistons twice. Pistons aren't going to be good this season.

I don't see them, I don't see them being a 58 win team, right? Right. So with that being said, what would you say? is a barometer right there. Do you agree with that barometer? How do you assess between those two teams? Is it, you know, one team is just playing out of their minds against subpar opponents and then another team is just figuring themselves out? Where do you see that starting the season? I mean, some of it has to do with Star Power. I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that you've trusted entities in terms of winning championships on rosters like the Lakers, Golden State,

even the Miami Heat, you know, like those are those are guys. that have recently been there and delivered with the Bulls. And I don't know that the Bulls can't wind up being a really good team because, again, I like them. But Zach Levine and DeRosen, great players, they just haven't delivered that yet. And so, you know, the jury would still be out. I mean, that's just human nature, right? Like, I'm going to have to see that and keep seeing that to believe it. I like to look at defensive numbers.

I'm always going to revert to defensive numbers, Logan. I think offense is something that. when you come out of, at least for me, when I came out of a preseason, sometimes it took me a while to get my feet under me offensively. I was watching Russell Westbrook last night. Yeah. And I saw him pressing to get a bucket. I remember that feeling after getting traded.

Now, my situation was different, but I remember being in Charlotte for like the first three or four games. I think I've told this before. I just can't, I couldn't buy a bucket. And you could see it written all over me in the way I played. I was trying so hard to get it. It became counterproductive. I saw that in Russ for a while.

So when you first come out of a preseason, you could maybe look sloppy offensively. I'm looking for defensive cohesion, like, or cohesiveness, which way, what would that be? Cohesiveness. Yes. Cohesiveness. So that's what I'm looking for.

I'm looking for our principal sound. Like are we coming out of camp with a full understanding of when we're switching, when we're dropping a big, on a pick and roll coverage, when, you know, is our weak side engaged? Like those type of things. I think are sustainable and more telling as to like what type of team you're going to be. Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. It's funny you brought up the case of Russ because I've been thinking about this for a long time with Russ. Because he's a guy that, you know, I watched his documentary. I watched and also watched how he felt how I watched his post game press conference after the home opener. And Russ seems like a guy that is very. hard on himself. He's probably the hardest on himself out of every criticism that we levy on him as a media or as other players might levy on him. He is the, he internalizes all that shit. And you can, you could see it. The good side of that is he gets triple doubles, right? And that he does

play as hard as I've ever seen a player play. But then there's the other variance of that where you see him when he misses a shot, he has. hangs his head, man. Or I think about a rebound that he lost yesterday in the waning moments at a game, and he's just beside himself, just down on himself. And I know LeBron has told him like, yo, go home and chill out. Forget about this shit. It's not that big a deal.

Relax. And I think once Russ, and hopefully Russ gets over that about himself, yeah, you're going miss shots and really believe the words that he says about not caring about what the fuck we're saying, I really want. that for Russ. And I, because I think when that happens, the Lakers are being a better place. I think that Russ for his sanity this year is going to have to realize that not everyone is as, this is going to sound weird, invested as you are.

And I don't mean, I don't mean on the court. I mean, because, like, LeBron and AD and those guys are 1,000% invested. Like, they are, I would never question whether they're invested. They just don't maybe take it home the same way you take it. home. It's not like, you know what I mean? Like what you're talking about is Russ taking that so hard. It looks like he goes home and it may have ruined his night. Right? Like those guys, LeBron's been through this. He's won so many championships. He just knows how to, he knows how to like let it go and realize that it is that marathon that I talked about. And these little results right now, they're not the end

of the world. And so I think, you know, Russ is, I think it'll be good for him playing with LeBron to some degree for that. It was funny that you say that because the overall point of not caring as much because I think that could be an overall point to the first week of the season. Ha ha ha.

You know, when we care so much about a team or about a week or anything like that, we get lost in the minutia and I think that, and that I think that leads me to the Brooklyn Nets, which is a team that has gone through a lot of things that is, you know, that we've talked

about on this program. But is one and two and could easily be one and three, what do you think about the Brooklyn Nets in their first week of the season? Because they're a team that, like the Lakers, are star-driven, are trying to figure out stuff with their stars right now, and I don't want to get into all of that. But do you think that they can write the ship and figure this all the way out?

What is it going to take for them to do that? The Brooklyn Nets right now just have a lot going on. It's a lot. We talked about it before. I know we're not going to dig in, but this was one of the challenges that they were going to face while everything swirled around them. It's not the end of the world for Brooklyn.

They're too talented. Yeah, there are things that they're going to have to figure out. And kind of like the Lakers, I would tell you, you know, the first two, three weeks of the season, just let it work itself out. Like, let it marinate, let them go back and watch some film, let them come back with a new approach to it. Like, let Nash figure out the lineups that work the back.

let those guys figure out how they all play with each other. But they've got a lot going on. And it's not always easy to just compartmentalize the way we think we can. Like we're really trained at doing it. Like we have a lot of experience. But there's some things and there's some distractions that looms so large that they become, you know, just that, the distraction that you can't afford. Well, talk about distractions and we already know the distraction there. But I think the biggest thing that we're learning with the Brooklyn.

is it doesn't matter if you have three stars, four stars, five stars on the team. If you miss one of those stars, it's still catastrophic because, yo, you, that's also a player that you need. How do you feel about what is that going to be that adjustment period, say if, you know, it's just Kevin and James out there playing basketball? What is that adjustment when they probably expected to have three guys on the floor at the same time? How do you adjust to that?

adjust to a new team, even though you have two stars. And I think that they can still make it to the title. But it does seem like there's going to be an adjustment period. How do you adjust? Well, see, here's the tricky part about adjusting. You would need a little clarity there. Because as long as there's this. But you don't think that you don't think the clarity has been made about

Kyrie not being on the, not being away from the team for the foreseeable future until, like there's a mandate of whether he knows how he can come can't come. Yeah, there's some clarity, but you don't, you don't really know, like, he might wake up tomorrow and say, all right, I'm taking a vaccine, I'm coming back. Yeah. Right, so there's not, and I'm not trying to lay this all at the feet of that. I'm just saying, you asked me how you move forward. Yeah. It's like a relationship. You move forward after there's definitiveness. There's clarity. All right, that's done. All right, I can move forward now. Like, that's how, that's how it happens.

But let's say you don't have that. I mean, I guess what you would have to do, because I haven't been in a situation like this. Well, yes, I have, but different. Let's say the first year I got to Phoenix, right? I came in. There was Amari Stademeyer, Steve Nash, Sean Marion, whoever else. And then Amari gets hurt. And Amari gets hurt in training camp.

And so all of our roles change a bit because Amari's not there, right? Boris is forced to do more playmaking. And we run a lot of stuff to him at the elbow. Like there are more opportunities for me to shoot. Sean Marion's going to get more bites at the house. Leandro Barbosa gets a little more of a playmaking role. So everyone gets a little bit more of a role. So that's going to happen in Brooklyn.

You still have two phenomenal offensive players. I don't think they have a problem, right? Like neither one of them is going to have an issue just divvying up, you know, whatever percentage of the balls is going to be for superstars. The other guys around the edges have to figure out, you know, how they can supplement and what their roles are without the third superstar. Because you need a, you're going to need someone to be, you know, the third guy night in and night out.

It could be a revolving door, but someone's got to step into that role nightly. And you have to figure that out. What point, so the Lakers have a very easy schedule. And Brooklyn has some things that they need to work on. But by and large, they got a deep, they got, by and large, they have a tough schedule compared to the Lakers. But at what point for each team do you kind of see to say,

yo, it's getting, it's panic time. We got it. we got to figure this out. Like it's not, this isn't tenable. Is it a month? Is it two months out? Where do you finally see where both teams are just like? And I think that the Lakers have a, I just want to be honest,

I think that the Lakers are going to be just fine. They have a, they played the, the Warriors. They played a really good Memphis Grizzlies team. They've played some good teams to start this season. But at what point are you like, yo, this isn't working. We have to figure this out. Yeah, I think when you start getting around the quarter of the season, Mark, Logan, you start getting 20 games in, 15 to 20 games in, we're starting to see a really clear

picture of who we are. I'm going to give us 10, 10 games. And 15 to 20 might be a lot. Like you, the picture's coming into focus, you know, around 12, 13, 14 games. That's starting to, around 20 games, we kind of know what we are, provided there's no major injury. And we're not going to be reintroducing like some major cog into what we're trying to do because that could change everything. Like you're missing, you know, one of your top four players with it's a different conversation. But I think that's fair. And when I watch the Lakers, and I've watched them more than I've watched Brooklyn, but I think Brooklyn falls into this too when I watched them play last year. The new foul like rules or mandates in the NBA, I think are, you know, they're made to protect

defense a little more than they are to protect offense because the pendulum had swung so much towards protecting the offensive player that it was getting ridiculous. Like, you know, I get into checking out Twitter and Instagram and stuff and seeing these foul or no foul. And it's hilarious to me how, you know, like people just side with offense. Like if some of those fouls, you can't even defend if that's a foul. So the calls this year are going to be a little bit more pro defense. When that starts to happen, those offensive philosophies a la Mike DeAnne and Tony over the last few years where you're just going to come down and scrap any kind of action.

We're just going into straight pick and roll and straight ISO. I think it's going to be harder to score like that. And so when I watched the Lakers last night, I found myself again saying Frank Vogel. Like, I know it's hard when you have LeBron who wants to play a certain way. It's won championships that way. But it's hard to watch them play like that. And they don't have the personnel to play like that.

So, you know, you have to get a little movement. When you're playing off, when you're playing offensive basketball, right? What you would ideally like to do at a basic level is get the ball at least from one side of the floor to the other side of the floor. Why? Because it shifts the defense, right? And in the process to shift in defense, someone might blow an assignment and five sets of eyes won't be locked on the ball at that time, right? Because you've moved the ball, assignments have changed. Maybe you catch someone in the middle of screwing up an assignment and it's created an opportunity for you, right? Like, the better teams will move it from side to side and then present actions.

that put defenders in decision-making spots, whether that be, you know, downscreens, tight curls, DHS, like any number of basketball actions. I'm sorry, I'm boring people with this. But what that does is it takes great scores. They bring it down. They get off of the ball. They run through.

You've presented your action. Now the balls change side. Defenders have had to shift and move. There's action over there on the weak side. And that same ball handler that was your best player now catches it on the weak side where people have new assignments. of some action where someone may have made a mistake, and now he's got a great opportunity to score the ball without having to go one-on-five.

Yeah. It's funny, though, because I'd always think about that with superstars, right, where superstars are so great. You played against Kobe Bryant. You know Kobe Bryant, how we feel about him on this podcast. But guys like that, especially that 2000s era of like Tracy McGrady and a lot of these great, amazing one-on-one talents because they're so great. you get to see that they

I remember watching TMAG and I remember watching Covey and you see it with LeBron and the finals where they take up all this offensive responsibility and you're like yo it could have just been easier if you just throw a quick pass you know if you just throw like a and you get your you'll get the same

amount of points but it's so much more beautiful to watch when you get it within the flow of the offense well there's there's definitely some of that and I'm not in the NBA game there's always going to be a time for ISO, right? Always.

Come down, you know, you need a bucket. Good O beats good D. Like you're going to need a dude who can just go get a bucket. Take the ball and get a bucket. So I'm not trying to say that that's not a part of the game. But through, I don't know, 67% of the game, there is an opportunity to move the ball, move players, create opportunities.

And it's less work for your LeBrons and your ADs, right? and it benefits your fringe players more because now they're in situations where they can make place. So much of the Lakers offense last night was coming down, one ball handler, same side of the floor. Either we're going to back down

and try to create a mismatch or we're going to run pick and roll with two people, three people standing on the others. It's so stagnant that no one can get involved and it's hard work. Yeah, it's funny because I see that

and you juxtapose that with another team like the Warriors. And I'm not, and I'm not. It's out. and oranges, right? Because clearly the Lakers formula has been successful. Clearly, you know, teams that have gone ISO heavy has been successful. But I feel like because we're in such a copycat league or play, I don't know what it is. Maybe you can, you can give me better context on this. But you start to see like, especially early in the season when newer teams that

they always go to ISO because that's the one thing that they know, right? I would love to see Russ cutting to the basket and not throwing it into the post to Russ all the time every single time down the floor. I would love to see Mello just we don't need anything from you

play just to be in the corner and just shoot threes dog. We don't need much from you. It's all good. And just see a bit more action out of the Lakers. I really wish we, because there's so many smart players on that team, I really wish we could, I really hope we get to that point to where they're running,

assistant offense. And I think the same way with the Nets, because they're a big ISO heavy team with, and because you have two of the best ISO players of all time. But man, it's great basketball when you see them players that are that great, getting easier shots and playing within the flow of the offense. It's just a funner game to watch. It is. Well, aesthetically, I enjoy that more too. So maybe I'm, this is me being partial to that. But I do think for Brooklyn, they're, their ISO because they have younger talent than the Lakers, you could probably get away with that more. Like those are better pure scores in ISOs

and pick and roll situations than LeBron. LeBron is a brilliant score, but he's also brilliant in playmaking. And you haven't surrounded him with a ton of spot-up shooters. So it puts him in a situation when he's collapsed the defense and he's kicking out to Russ because he thinks Russ is going to be towing the line and Russ is on a cut to the basket with AD. Now it's three mofos on top of the rim with two defenders.

You're like, that's not going to work. So especially for the Lakers, but for both teams, I think with the rule changes, it's going to behoove you to move the ball a little bit. And again, in Vogel's defense, you have to be able to sell that to LeBron. And that's not an easy sell. I know firsthand trying to sell him on something new isn't easy. What's it like trying to sell LeBron on anything? Is it talking to him?

Is it spreadsheets? Is it, what is it? So, you know, interestingly enough, like, the only, I only had to sell LeBron on one thing, really, because I think there were two times, like, I didn't really run up on LeBron a lot. Like, I, I let LeBron, you know, I wasn't the dude that just wanted to be talking to LeBron every day. I think that kind of loses its effect. And so if I ever really needed something, I wanted him to know that there was some seriousness there, right? Because I'm not a dude that runs up on you every day to talk to you. So there were two times. Once we were on a plane and Griff wanted LeBron to sit out in Indiana, it was a, it was on a,

a back-to-back, and Griff made that call, and I had to tell LeBron. And so I grabbed them on the plane and just told them we were going to sit him out and so on and so forth. That one wasn't a hard sell because I think LeBron may have just wanted that night off anyway. It was like at a point in the season where you could see that might have been a good time to rest him. He's always ahead of the game anyway. So I think he was already like, yeah, dog, I know, I got it. So the other time I had to sell him on something was David Blatt. I don't know if I've told this story before. David Blatt had been trying to sell our team on a new style of play the whole preseason, right?

Like doing things that NBA players aren't accustomed to doing because David Blatt had come from the like... You guys are running like just dribble weaves after dribble weaves in the beginning of that season. I remember that season, yeah. I don't remember exactly what was being run, but he had a quirky matchup zone that he wanted to try. Like there were some things that, you know,

NBA teams don't typically do. And so, you know, and we were at a point where LeBron hadn't been his normal self and he was coming back off of a little vacation, trying to get his body right. And spirits were low. And I had to go to LeBron and sell LeBron on convincing the team to play hard for David Blatt. So, you know, if he could do that,

then the front office was committed to doing whatever we needed to do to help LeBron and company win a championship. And if David Blatt wasn't that guy, then David Blatt would get moved, but we couldn't make a fair assessment as to whether or not David Blatt was that guy if the team didn't play hard for David Blatt.

So I had to have that conversation with LeBron. Even though it's an indictment on the coach when a team doesn't play hard for him, you still wanted to give him even more of that benefit of the doubt? Well, we weren't firing him right then. We were a quarter of the way into his season. True. I don't think they were firing him.

So we did actually want to see. It's still early. I'm telling you, you're a quarter of the way in, that's when things come into focus. Like, we need to see what this looks like if we're, and so it wasn't a hard sell. Like, LeBron looked at me. There were other things that I said in there that had to do. It was a conversation. You want to know.

Well, basically, like, I had to grab him in, we were in UCLA after a shoot-around. And, you know, I asked him if he'd hang tight. And, you know, I talked to him about, like, what he had done in Miami and how that was great. But he knew, like, I knew that his legacy was always going to be determined by whether, or not, he won that championship in Cleveland. I was like, and so, you know, that's not to downplay anything that you did in Miami, but this is where we're at, and this is why you're here. And so we want to help you get there.

But we're going to need some help in figuring out what the best way to get you there is. And from our end, we need to take a better look at Black. And the way we think we can do that is for you guys to, like, give him 100% investment, get those dudes to buy in and play hard. and you have my word that if it ain't what it's supposed to be, that Griffin Company are going to do what they need to do. And he looked at me and he said, I got it. Or something to that effect.

Like, I don't remember verbatim. He was like, bet. And they went on a run. Like, they just, we beat the Clippers that night in L.A. And they started playing well. And lo and behold, Blatt wasn't the guy. David Griffin held up his end of the bargain and LeBron won his championship. But you have to be able to sell him on why.

Something is in his best interest because he's really brilliant. And he knows the game and he knows that that style is produced. I would just say if I were there in the Lakers front office, I would try to get him to understand while it has produced in the past, like we're not all the same people that we were last year or two years ago. And so, you know, not only personally, but our roster isn't constructed the same. And so there are things that we're going to have to do to give ourselves the best chance to win. And if it doesn't work, like give us 10 games of it.

If you say this is some bullshit, like, okay, fine, we could scrap that. But give it a shot because I do think that if they get a little more uptempo, which is not typically LeBron style, and they move that ball a little bit more, it'll open up some things for some other players. And LeBron and AD are still going to eat. I really like this Lakers team right now. And I know I keep going back and forth and stuff like that. But I do like the potential of this team, man, especially there was some moments last night.

There were some moments against the Warriors. there was some moments against there was not any moments against the Phoenix Sun. But there were some moments during this stretch where they have a defensive stretch where they're playing really well, where they're just shutting down teams. But then they'll make a stupid

turnover and then they'll do something. I think that this team is going to be okay. Let's take a quick break. I want to talk about the league's future. And we are back. I want to talk about Lakers Grizzlies. I want to talk about it from the Memphis standpoint.

And that all leads to one, Jah Morant, who dropped 40, dished out 10 assists, was a free throw away from tying this game and sitting in an overtime. And the way Jiam Morant was playing, the Lakers probably should have been 0 and 3. They probably should have. But it goes to an overall thing that I'm seeing with the league right now is when you talk about a Jiamerant, when you talk about a Luka Dantches, when you talk about a Luka, Donchance, when you talk about hopefully a Zion Williamson. And when you talk about who else we saw yesterday, Lamello Ball,

these young guys, it seems like they are trying to take this torch from the older guys. I look up and you see J.A. Morant, as young as he is, playing up against LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony, who are going into their 19th year. You see Lamello Ball going up against Kevin Durant. these guys are going, the guys that are going out of the league in the next five, six years, right? Who are probably, they're not going to be here for long, so we have to share some playing. But do you see this new guard coming?

Do you see these new guys? These new guys kind of take the form right here? What do you feel about this, Roger? Yeah, those names, along with a few others, are going to be beating on that door. Like, it's a never-ending cycle in professional leagues, right? Like you have the old guard who is trying to hold on and get that one more chip or one more bite of the apple. And then the young up-and-coming cats trying to take it from them. Like, nah, this is, this is me.

And then you have those interesting characters, like, kind of in the middle of that, like the, you know, the Janus's and the Hardens who aren't all the way at LeBron's age yet. You know what I mean? Like, they're still going to be around. But I always found it fascinating. Like, when I played, when you first come in. I can't speak from like a John Morant's or a Luca's vantage point. But from mine, I would come in and there was some deference there. Like there was, these were idols, man.

Like these were, you know, not starstruck, right? Because my job was to go out there and play against you. But definite, you know, respect, maybe bordering on too much respect for who I was playing against at first. Still trying to get your shit off. I still trying to figure out how you fit in the equation. But always just maybe a little bit too much respect. And then, you know, I don't know. You play that game.

You get that out of the way. You see him the next time it's a little less. And then the fascinating part to me was like how quickly it became like, I could, what? I mean, I know he was like my idol, but yes, I could bust his ass. And so, you know, once those super Uber talented, like faces of the league moving forward, get over that hurdle. For some people, it's really quick.

Like those, you know, Trey Young's and Lucas, they didn't do shit. like John Moran been in his mode, bro. Excuse me, Trey Young. Let me, let me add Trey Young to that make because I was disrespectful that I had not put his name in it. It's all good, but they, those are killed. Like, they've been in that mode. You might have caught him one time where they were like,

yo, man, so cool to be playing at that mode since he was born, bro. Like, ever since he's like, no, no, this is not how it's going to go down. Facts. But that was always really interesting. I mean, the league is, you know, the league is positioned really well with some of these young stars. And it's cool to see markets, you know,

even though sometimes I say they're, They're not like my favorites to win a championship and stuff. Like, like Atlanta be vibrant again and have the vibe that they got. Like, that's really cool. You know, what starts to happen at, like, I don't know. I don't know where I'm going with this, but I'm just going to tell you because I remember playing with Alan Iverson and how you know someone's, someone's, someone's, a star is starting to fade a little bit.

Yeah. There's an amount of star call that goes into like being a star in the NBA, right? You pencil that in from a free throw perspective, right? Like you're just, people don't want to hear this. But listen, the greatest scores on the planet ain't hot every night. They shoot 40% from three for a reason. They're missing six out of 10 of them bad boys in a game, right? And five out of 10 from the field.

So some nights, that's going to be a lot worse. The way you keep him averaging 28, 29 a game is by what? Get in a bunch of free throws because those are like 80, 90%. So if we can get them to the line a bunch, it's going to support that, right? Like this is a, hey, this is deep, right? Yeah, right? So you get him free throws. How you know that that star is starting to like fade is when them free throws

stop coming. And you'll see a player as he starts to age looking like just flabbergasted that he didn't get the call. I watched AI go through it like from afar. Like Denver, he was still getting calls. By the time when he got to Detroit, nah, son, not getting those calls. and he would be livid. And I was like, it took me a while to realize what was going on.

It was like, oh, shit, he don't get those calls on. It's funny because you brought up Trey Young, right? And Trey Young got them calls early. Like, it got all, like, maybe they had the rookie. I'm not going to act like he didn't have like the rookie thing, like the first six months. Like, they don't fuck with him. And he's clear calls that it should be going his way. Don't go his way.

But like, by the second year, he was getting them things. It's interesting that you say that superstardom can be, dictated by how you're treated by the referees because we don't really talk about that. We do, but we don't talk about it in this nuanced way where I remember there's this clip of Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan at the Olympics

and he says, don't touch Michael, it's a foul. Don't get too close to Michael, it's a foul, right? And it's interesting that you get that, but these young guys are getting these calls. Lucas getting those calls. He's getting calls. that a vet will get. John Morant's getting to the line.

You talk about even last night where the game is on the line, he shoots a three. Baysmore clearly fouls him. I don't know if he gets that call to start. I mean, maybe he does in his first two games of his career, but he's definitely, John Morant, you give him that call. For sure. Yeah, I think you're right on that particular call

in his rookie season before he convinced, whoever needs to be convinced, I don't know who it is, Logan. I don't know who the wizard is. But once you've convinced the wizard that you have star potential, you're going to get that call. They're not missing that.

Or in his first couple games, before he convinced whoever the wizard was, there is a good chance he might not have got that call. Honestly, that's how the game goes. You didn't deserve that call, player. You didn't pay your dues. It was funny. I was talking to, when I was in L.A.,

I was talking to Juan, front of the show, Juan. And he was talking about, like, it was a preseason game, how he fouled this shit out of LeBron, and nobody called it. He was like, yo, he felt so good because he's like, yo, I made it. Yeah. I fouled the shit out of him. They didn't call it. Okay.

Like, that's where you start to get that. That's where you start to get some of those missed calls and things like that. Because it's not just a start thing. It's being in the league for a long time where if you're a defender, maybe you get a little leeway on that on that call right if you're am i am i right in saying that is that how it goes normally yeah i think yeah they're there are levels to this right even like and there's nuance even within this nuanced conversation what what what was experiencing is what i experienced like they know that that you're a solid defender and so and you've proven

that over the course of a few years and so yeah you're gonna get away with more like they're gonna let you, you know, I got the benefit of doubt on a lot of charges because I had earned, you know, the reputation. But, you know, the flip, the star driven foul, they're, they're going to get that and then they're going to get the free throws. Like, do you understand what I'm saying? Like, we don't get the free throws. Like, Juan's not getting the free throws.

No, no. You'll count them blessings, bro. They're going to let you get away with a slap on the wrist here or there. We're not going to get the free throws, but, but you got to be laid out to get a free throws a role player. You got to be fucking, it got to be a damn near a flagrant for a role player to get a consistently get to the line. And you know what? Like it really shapes kind of the way you play. I found that really interesting too, Logan, because once you start to realize that you don't get that, then you ain't trying to do that. Yeah. Because it's pointless. Well, that's the variance we're

getting as like with the James Hardens and the Trey Youngs. They're adjusting right now to this new rule change because their bodies are just so used to jumping into somebody, right? But I think as the season goes on, they're great players. Both of them are great players. They're going to figure it out. They're just not going to jump into motherfuckers. That's it. That's all that's going to happen.

And they're going to figure out, I have no doubt that they're going to figure out a way to do that. Those two dudes are going to find a new way to draw foul. That's how good they are at that. Like, it won't be that one, but they're going to find another part of the rule that they can leverage it. They're just not going to jump into people, but they're going to grab, they're going to pull your arm into their arm, the shit that you hated. as a defender, Raja. They're great at shit like that. Oh, those dudes are great.

I do got one more question before we get out of here. How was it, though, like when, because you were playing during the 0304 draft, right, when you had LeBron and the Chris Bosch and the Dwayne Wade's and the Carmelo Anthony's and just that class, when you were going through that, because that's kind of what I'm seen here with the Lucas and the Jaws and the new wave right now. was how did it feel as a player to kind of see that to see this the new guard where you were you were you I know you were a role player that I'm thinking you playing with the Mavericks at the time you probably were like fuck these motherfuckers like they're just rookies like whatever who cares but was there a change did

you sense a change in the guard in the league not yet I mean yes you knew you knew that they were the the future of the league but there was at the time they weren't there was still guys firmly planted in in in seats you know you got Kobe and and and and Dern and I don't know, Shaq and whoever else. I mean, those guys were still, you know, they were still there. You know, it was always interesting for me the first time I played them just to see, I like to see what people were made of, you know, just see who was about it, like who, to make my own little, you know, determination on what they could ultimately be.

So the first time I called LeBron, I think it was, we were in Utah. Yeah, it was Utah. Because when he was in, yes, when he was in Utah. So I caught him running like through, like as if you were. would come down one wing and run through to the other wing. Like we were crossing underneath the basket. And I caught him and I just chucked him with like a forearm. Like just as we ran by,

I was back when you could get away with some of that. Yeah. Just to see, like, yo, what you're going to do, bro? Like what? And he, his big ass turn, he looked at me and he just chuckled. And I said, oh, okay. Oh, all right. Oh, okay.

All right. Because, you know, most rooks, you know, would, you get something out of them, whether it was wanting to fight you or like, any kind of react. Looking at the ref. My dude, what Jesus looked at me and chuckled.

I said, okay, it's going to be a career for you, brother. Yeah, yeah, for sure, man. It just seems like that,

that's just happening now, man. But the new changing of the guard. I'm excited to see this, man. I'm really excited for this season. It's been a great first week. This is a lot of great,

great games, Celtics, Knicks. The games, last night. It's going to be a good season, man. I'm excited about it, man. But that was another edition of Real Ones. Monday edition. I'm Logan Murdoch. That is Roger Bell. We'll see you next Thursday. But in the meantime, make sure you check out our whole ringer slate. That is mismatch. That is group chat. That is the answer. That is Black Girl's Songbook with who, Roger Bell? Town legend, Danielle Smith.

R2C2 with who, Roger Bell? Ballio Legend. Crestight Clown. C.C. Sabacia. We will see you on Thursday. Halla.