The Ringer NBA Show - Injuries Abound, a Trade, a Hot Seat, and More | Group Chat

Episode Date: January 19, 2022

Justin, Rob, and Wos play a little news roulette and discuss some of the major injuries around the league, their thoughts on Frank Vogel being on the hot seat, and the three-team trade between the Spurs, Celtics, and Nuggets. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, the host of the podcast, Plain English. We tackle technology, politics, culture, history, everything that's happening in the world, and why it matters. New episodes of Plain English drop every Tuesday and Friday on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier. Joining me as always, Rob Mahoney and the Weekend Warrior himself. Wise, big wise. What's up, gentlemen?

Nothing much. I'm good. Just happy to be here. You know, we always record on a hump day, and it's always good to know that after group chat, the week is downhill from here. Rob, are you listening to Weekends with Waz, the new hit podcast on the Ringer NBA show?

You know, I never miss an episode. How could you? We won't quiz you on what the latest episode was about. Rob, you're looking rugged these days. He's going with the Alex Abrina's beard. We're deep into the season shaving hygiene and grooming has gone out the window

I'm just trying to keep up at this point to be honest with you Okay, but please next episode We're a flannel Please, we need that Yeah, we definitely need more flannel and beers On this podcast We've got a bunch of news items

On the docket for today There are a bunch of headlines going around the league, a lot of injuries, a couple hot seats, even a trade Not much of a trade, but it was a trade and we do love transactions here.

So what I've done is I've randomly numbered the six or so items here, and I'm going to play a little news roulette with our panelists to see which one we go in which order. So Rob, why don't you kick us off, my newly rugged friend. What number do you want to start with? Give me number three. What's behind door number three? Door number three.

Let's see here. You have found Frank Vogel on a piping hot seat, my friends, according to the athletic Vogel's job is in serious jeopardy, which is, I guess, like the daily double of jeopardies. He is being evaluated on a game-to-game basis and is at risk of being fired if no progress is made. The LA Times also chimed in yesterday, I believe a day after this initial report,

basically saying that Kurt Rambis is getting involved in the meetings with both Rob Polinka and also the pre-game meeting, at least one, with the coaches. and he, surprisingly enough, suggested that the Lakers should lean into more big lineups featuring Dwight Howard and D'Andre Jordan. I don't know if he meant two big lineups with both of those guys or just bigger lineups, but either might be concerning.

So Rob, I ask you, what's your takeaway from this? Do you think this is a fair assessment of the job that Vogel has done this season? No, but I'm not sure fair is really what's at stake here. You know, it's a matter of what can we do realistically with the group that we have and pull the trap door out from under the coach is a tried and true team and desperation move.

So it would not surprise me to see it. I don't think it's fair. You know, as for Vogel, I mean, the test of your viability as a coach is, what can you get your players to actually do? Like, can you convince them to do the things that they need to do? From that perspective, I think he's been kind of a mixed bag, ultimately, you know, at least as far as champion,

championship level coaches go. But I just don't see how you can hang this team struggles on him and why in that conversation you would even blame him when you've put a bunch of players around him who are established veterans who want to play their specific way and getting them to move or budge on any of that stuff

is going to be an uphill battle. Yeah, I hesitate to make the cross sports reference. But this kind of reminds me of Flores in Miami where in the sense that Vogel is anti-Flores. Nobody's listening to him about personnel. You never hear rumors about Vogel wants this guy out of here. Like, he has no agency over there, right? There are no fights to pick for him. He clearly doesn't have a voice in the room on that front. And so, to me, this is just a bunch of buck passing. The people who wanted this iteration of the

Los Angeles Lakers have watched it fail. And rather than admit, their own failures in talent evaluation and in understanding what matters with chemistry and the foundation of a team's identity or misunderstanding those things, rather than looking in the mirror and say, I failed when I interviewed Russell Westbrook and Brentwood about coming to my team. I failed when I completely misvalued somebody like drink at home, Alex Caruso, right? Like, I failed at those things. And so the only thing I can do now is say the people I brought in

of being somehow misused by Frank Vogel. And, of course, you guys know who the powers that be are over there. Whether it be clutch, whether it be LeBron, whether it be Rambuses. The Ramesses. Yeah, like, y'all messed this up. I don't know how you could put this all Vogel. By the way, I think we have to officially add Kyle Kuzma to the group of regret for the Lakers. Like, he's, of course.

He's been super solid for Washington. Like we always say, you know, Crusoe and KCP, these kind of like plug and play wings that they could really use right now. They can really use a Kyle Kuzma too. And so there's just so much going on there in terms of the machinations that built that roster. Hold on, Rob. They brought in Stanley Johnson as a complete fucking desperation move. Who, Stanley Johnson, I was always high on him when he came into the league, just physically or whatever. But whatever.

Stanley Johnson is doing a cheap Kyle Kuzma imitation, period. That's all he's doing on this team. And obviously, Kyle Kuzma's a much better player than him. And he was already in your building. And you got rid of him for a guy who was just like a neutral value at best on this team. Yeah, it does seem like Vogel is the fall guy in this entire situation. And I think a lot of people are starting to wonder more and more about Rob Polinka. I think he, like, bought himself a lot of rope by winning a championship,

because that is the goal of what we're all doing here. But I just look back at the legend and I do start to wonder like how much does he really have in the good column? Because even something like the Anthony Davis trade, you could look back and say like, wow, he paid a really heavy price. And now we're at the point where I'm looking at the roster and like, is there many wins, if any, on this roster anymore? Especially on the fringes, like Austin Reeves, I guess is like a guy that they unearthed. And they've been particularly good at like finding some of these guys in the later rounds of the draft or just like just floating around in the, ether. I mean, I guess Malik Monk, but that seemed like

a LeBron-influenced decision. And I don't know. It just like it brings me back to the original kind of suspicion with Polanka. It's just like he was Kobe's agent and thus like had a special connection to Jeannie Bus and whatnot. And especially when you hear like these stories about how much influence the Ramby have,

both Kerr and his wife, like you definitely start to wonder if this is like a situation where it's just like maybe LeBron solved all and he's at the point where he can't do that physically anymore. Yeah, I mean, that's LeBron's history as a player, right? Is solving organizational dysfunction, is masking whatever it is that you don't do well

and dragging you to the championship. And if he can't do that, the Lakers just aren't in that place. But to your point about the roster and their kind of inability to find an unearthed valuable role players, I mean, I think Waz nailed it. Like, Stanley Johnson is their fourth most important player. That's it. That's insane. That's the game.

That's insane. Like, this guy only made the team but for a COVID outbreak in the, well, in the country, in the world or whatever. But, like, it was literally an outbreak of a deadly virus that caused this guy to be signed by the team. And now he's this valuable entity

because he does what? He plays his ass off on defense. He has a motor. He tries really hard. And, like, what? This is what we're relying on, guys who we know for being hard. Hard Scrabble.

That word, I think, is really critical with the motor, because that's what you give up when you sign all these veteran guys. Even ones who have, like, Avery Bradley has a quote-unquote motor, but it's the kind that just spins its wheels and doesn't really go anywhere. You need the Stanley Johnson's to get you revved up as a team. If your primary engine is going to be guys like LeBron, guys like AD, and they thought Westbrook could be that guy, I mean, he's clearly not. He can propel them, but sometimes into brick walls is the problem.

Right. And we should mention Anthony Davis has been injured for most of this season. So maybe they would have been credible and maybe Vogel's job would have been saved. Was AD playing really hard before he went down? I would say no, he wasn't. And maybe I shouldn't be playing body language police. But, you know, we've, especially somebody like Varyer who used to be a New Orleans beat writer who watched AD very closely early on in his career. And I think Vary has been one of the most vocal people in the media like, yo, this

guy doesn't play the same all the time. Like, it waxes and wanes with him. That's been his history since he got to the freaking league. And so, yeah, watching him play this season, I don't think he was playing particularly inspired basketball. And so I don't know. How can you put that on Vogel? A.D.'s damn it 30 years old.

I got to explain to you that you should be playing hard. Have we gotten into any, like, interstellar explanations for what A.D.'s effort level is? I remember in the Free Darko book, there was like aligning the lunar cycles with Gerald Wallace and Josh Smith's performances. I wonder if there's something, you know, something stellar,

something galactic at play in terms of whether AD is, you know, going particularly hard on one night or the other. Yeah, I mean, I wrote last year during the bubble run, just kind of the conundrum that Anthony Davis led team faces where it's like he's probably,

you want him to be the best player. You do not want him to be the leader on that. team. But the problem is it's kind of at odds with the way the team is shaped, both because they're counting on him to be one of three like all-star level players day in and day out. And also it seems like LeBron, pretty much from the jump from that trade, has been empowering AD to take the reins. And I just don't know if that really fits like his preferences and what he does. But like, at all other story. Listen, I remember, I remember talking to somebody around the AD situation. And I was like, look, man, like, these dudes don't do media.

Like, nobody knows a damn thing about this dude. He's supposed to be what, like, LeBron can't carry the burden of being the salesman for this fucking league and enterprise for the rest of his life. And eventually, some of these other guys in the league have to step up to the plate and do it. And ostensibly, the person told me two things. One, LeBron is more than willing to do it.

Like, he doesn't mind being the ambassador and, like, being the pitchman for the league. Like, it's an extra job. but he feels like it's his duty to. And two, AD has no interest in anything. He just wants to show up, do his job, get paid, go home. Like, he doesn't want none of this shit, none of it, which makes me know, like, he doesn't want to be the guy after a loss,

after whatever, after anything controversial. I'm the front man. I'm going to answer the hard questions. I'm going to do X, Y, and Z. I'm going to be the one that sets the tone for the team. I'm going to be, like, he has no interest in it whatsoever. And that's a problem when you're supposed to be the guy that's taking the fucking reins from a dude who's pushing 40. Like, what the fuck?

Yeah, you can make that choice. And there's nothing wrong if you just don't want those things. Absolutely. But it's weird that those kinds of players also want to go play in Los Angeles. Also want to go play in New York. Like it's they want certain perks, but they don't want the certain like big market responsibilities. And I will say that about Frank Vogel. He always seemed to know what the score was.

Like his job was to show up to explain some things, to take pressure off his stars publicly, maybe get a championship in the process, which he did. And then when the time came, he might get fired early and get to go home with millions of dollars in outstanding contract debt from the organization. That's just kind of the way it goes for some of these guys. I feel like you guys are just talking about my career when you're talking about AD. Like just want to do all the things you want to do. Don't want to do the bad things.

I want to live in L.A. So like at a certain extent, I understand it. All right, let's move along here. You're a grinder, very. Don't do that. Don't sell yourself short. No, I'm definitely the ninth man on the bench who just wants to grind out every possession, unfortunately.

Was, you're up here. What number you want to pick? Okay, let me pull this thing back up. Number, number. No, no, you don't get to look at the document. You get to just choose a number at random. Number two. Whoops.

Sorry. All right. This is one near and dear to Rob's heart. Miles Turner is now out. The guy probably getting the most buzz heading into the trade deadline outside of maybe a Jeremy Grant and some other guys. Stress reaction in his left foot, never a good thing for a very, very tall and big person. It is, I believe, it's the thing that isn't a stress fracture, but is something that could lead to a stress fracture, I believe, is what my doctorate tells me. Recovery time is expected to be about a month, which would take him out through the trade deadline, which is probably the biggest thing to note here, was what do you think about?

the injury to our guy Miles Turner here. I guess what does it mean for the Pacers long term because trading him seems more complicated now. Yeah, I think to me, for the Pacers, like, I just, I'm

tired of not understanding what they want to do with the two bigs. Like, I don't know what they want to do. Nobody can explain what they're trying to do, what their desires are, how they feel not just individually about subonis or Turner, but how they feel about them together, like, in comparison with each other,

nobody can explain to me their preferences, who they like more, whatever. To me, I can only think about it through the lens of finally somebody getting this guy out of there, right? And I think if you're a team, not that the bucks had the pieces to put together to make a trade like that, they tied up a lot of their future assets in the Drew Holiday deal, whatever, But like, if you're a team who has long-term postseason aspirations this year, I don't know that you can make a deal for Miles Turner. In good faith, it's like his foot is messed up.

But if you're a team like Charlotte, who we've been constantly, that's been the team we've been attaching to Turner. And it's like, no, his timeline as a player matches up with Bridges, matches up with La Mello, matches up with our guys. And we could bring him in here and be like, you know what, even if he doesn't do what he has to do for us this season. Next year, we're going to be reared up, ready to go when Miles Turner's back healthy, et cetera, et cetera.

So if you have your eye towards the future, you should absolutely still be bringing this guy into your building. But I think this year, like, we're here in a month, which we always say the fucking most rosy, optimistic, especially for a guy who the team is trying to trade. No, he's going to be back. He's going to be great. It's going to be amazing, right?

I think if you're trying to make a deep postseason run this year, I don't know how you could do that, how you could have those aspirations and trade for Miles Turner at this point. And that's why it's a good reminder, this whole situation, of what you're really putting on the line when you're a team like Indiana

and you string out this suboptimal player combination and Turner and Subbonis. Because the cost of waiting to split those guys up isn't just wasting time or the prime years of one of their careers or whatever. You're running the heightened risk that something like this could happen at a bad time. Like this felt like a really important window to explore a trade for Turner.

It felt like a time where the market is going to be there, where all the factors were lining up where you could finally swing that trade. And I don't think that's going to happen. I don't even think if you're a team like Charlotte, you swing that because Charlotte's in the running, they could be the sixth season Eastern Conference this season if the rest of their season goes well. Can they really afford to give up meaningful players now, even if it means a longer term fit for them? I don't know. So when you look at what this could mean in the off season, you know, say they have to say, they have to hold on to Turner for now and they look at exploring a trade for him later, I just don't think the market is going to be back in quite the same way, or at the very least,

it's going to be reframed by the fact that he has one year left on his contract beyond this one, and that makes it a rental. That makes it a totally different enterprise as a trade. I guess the most interesting ripple effect that could come from this is I wonder if Indiana pivots now to being more aggressive with DeMontas Sabonis in trade talks. Like, because if they can't trade Turner, are they going to trade Sabonis? and there was a report, I don't know, like, how firm it was. I think it was like a radio interview, but like Sam Anik was saying, like maybe the kings have him high on the list in addition to Simmons.

They want to be aggressive. They want to do something, which maybe the ripple effects is this is the worst possible scenario for Sabonis because he might be shuttled off to Siberia and Sacramento and never to be seen again. What do we think about that just briefly, Rob, Sabonis in Sacramento? I don't know what would be going back in return, but maybe we could figure that out in the fly here. Well, it sounds like there's some whispers that D.A. and Fox could be involved in a trade like that. And that's where it's, okay, you can see the outline of a healthy Turner with Fox and Brogden in the back court.

We need to resolve the wing thing between LaVird and, you know, T.J. Warren, if he's still a basketball player for the foreseeable future, I don't know. But kind of sorting that out, I like the shape of that a little bit for Indiana, certainly better than what they have now. It's just kind of a cleaner fit. You have this dynamic end-to-end point guarded Fox. You have a big who could space for him and Turner when he's helped. I think that could actually make some sense from the Indiana side. I mean, who knows on the Sacramento side? I mean, it's a nice shakeup, right? Like, you shake up your roster in terms of, you know, the roles are now defined, right?

As far as the Halliburton and Fox sort of, I don't want to call it a mismatch, but, you know, like the redundancy there. And you bring in subonis who are, all right, now it's like, these are our two men guys and everything flows out of what those guys do in concert with one another when it comes to Sabonis and Halliburton and the rest of whatever is left over there. As far as Indiana,

I don't know how this makes them much different of the team, right? Like, they're still sort of like way too good to tank and not anywhere near on the star level of players required to make sense. serious noise within the Eastern Conference. The Eastern Conference that, you know, after years of just ineptitude, like, they're top heavy as fuck. Like, they got monsters at the top.

The Pacers can't compete with even a Miami at this point, let alone the juggernauts like Brooklyn and Milwaukee. So I don't know what this does for them because it's not even like you can say it's credibly like, nah, we're going to give the buck. a tough game with D'Andre Fox and Miles Turner and, you know, Malcolm Brockton. Well, I think it moves them closer to the Victor Oladipo era, which was like a year and a half team. And I think Fox would play a similar role where he's that dynamic guard who could really push the team and gives them a little bit more of an upside. He's under contract for a while, which is what you need for a player to trade what Indiana needs in a player to trade for them.

and maybe they like tap into him in the same way that they tapped into Victorolo Depot's untapped potential. I don't know. I don't hate it. No, but I think what we're getting at here is that when you play this middle ground and you have to constantly keep spinning and churning pieces to try to stay competent.

And I think competent is maybe a stretch for how good the pacer or how well the paces have played basketball over these last two seasons. It's hard. It's hard to keep flipping those pieces one and to another to make these things work, especially when some of these guys are injury prone, some of them don't fit all that well,

it's a really tricky enterprise. I think the Pacers have gotten themselves in quite a situation here where they will probably ultimately need to do the thing they are loath to do, which is be quite bad and get some high draft picks and refresh.

They are just a team that is due for a refresh in a big way. All right, let's move along here. Rob, what is next on your list? What number? Number one? What's number one? That is Kevin Durant,

who is also injured. You're going to essentially, a theme here eventually. Out four to six weeks sprained MCL. The timeline is consistent with the create two sprain. Could return after the All-Star break. I mean, this has been floating around for a little bit. I think the more interesting thing here is what happens in the East.

And you guys were kind of already getting into this. So this is a pretty interesting segue. So Rob, I mean, assuming that the nets are wounded here and they no longer are pegged as the favorites to get the number one seed in the East, who do you think could kind of take advantage of this opening. I think this is the Miami Heat's music. Yeah, it is. You know, they're somehow tied for first right now

despite, I mean, spending the last few months playing with just various skeleton crews. You know, so on Monday, that was their first game with both Butler and Bam in the lineup since November 27th. They've managed to hold, you know, hold water that entire time.

They've been really competent. We thought this team would have to probably take it pretty slow in the regular season, given their veterans. then crank it up for the playoffs. I think they might just like incidentally slip into the top seat in the east

on the backs of Max Struz and Omerertya, you know? To that point, Bam Butler-Lowrie have only played 257 minutes together this season. I believe I crib that from a John Hollinger column. But yeah, it's incredible what their record is considering how just devastated they've been by COVID injuries.

Yeah, which, you know, I think on this pod, we definitely worship at the altar of Kyle Lowry and like, this should go on his Hall of Fame reel, this stretch of games that the heat played because it's a bunch of nobodies. It's straight up, a bunch of nobodies. And Kyle Lowry is just making it work. He's making it sing.

He's putting guys in position. Like, they are just spraying threes all over the freaking place. And it's just Kyle Lowry creating those opportunities, right? Like, it's incredible. And, of course, Colourne, who, man, like, if he had a different personality, like, he'd be one of the biggest stars in our league, right? But he doesn't do media.

Like, he's never done a GQ Vanity Fair profile about his palatial pad and his model wife and whatever. Like, nobody knows anything about this dude. So he's not a face of the league. But, like, if it was just based on his accomplishments as a coach. like this guy would be one of our biggest stars, man. Like to be able to withstand the losses of like your two best players are gone for huge stretches of the season and y'all just keep on chugging along.

It's crazy and to think that they're getting their guys back as MVP candidate, Kevin Durant goes down for Brooklyn. It's just, man, it's setting up beautifully for the heat. And I think it's going to be fun to watch. I watched them in Crunchtime the other day. And Jimmy Butler is just, he's a madman. Like his instincts on defense of where exactly to be, when to go help, when to recover. Like, and of course, he's their crunch time score where he gets to the basket at will in those spots, even though everybody knows that's exactly what he wants to do.

I just think they're going to be so much fun to watch down the stretch because they're not a Los Angeles Lakers. No. They're not a rest on my law. rules. Oh, we're going to figure it out. Oh, we're talented. Oh, it doesn't matter. No, we're hauling ass every single game at all points of the game. I'm excited to see what they do. Yeah, not to hammer home the Lakers of it all, but Frank Vogel's biggest problem is the coach is that he's not Eric Spolstra. And that his team's scouting department and player development staff are not what the heat have. Because they just turn out these guys to a team that, as you were saying,

was the heat just make it work no matter who they have out there. The Lakers are just kind of making side eyes at each other most of this season so far. Have you seen the photo of Spolstra in, like, the basement of the Miami Heat, like tape room? The dungeon. The tape's dungeon. Yes. He looked like a ringer staffer, but in the 90s. Believe it originated from a Kevin Arvitz piece about a decade ago.

But if you haven't seen it, go Google that. If not for the heat, though, are there any other teams, Rob, that you're keeping an eye on who could take advantage of this, the calves, the bulls, maybe even the Sixers or the Bucs. Well, I think the big one to watch is the Bulls and the Bucks have four games left against each other. And so whoever wins the majority of those matchups, I think is going to be in pretty good position. I'm not ready to consider the Cavs as a possibility just yet,

but I would love if we get there. I can't wait for that conversation. I think if I had to power rank the other options, I would probably go Chicago, Milwaukee, Cleveland, in part because Milwaukee, there's just still some injury stuff to resolve, and the bucks have the hardest overall remaining strength of schedule left. I mean, you just can't discount stuff like that.

How are we feeling about the books, by the way? Hasn't been great. They're good when they're healthy. Will they be healthy? I don't know. That's the, yeah, that's the question. I just think Janus is at, like, basically, he's at the peak of his powers. He's in such command of his game.

And he's taken to the Janus at center thing so beautifully. when they got all their guys, they're going to put the screws to people on that end of the floor. And so I'm excited to see what they do. Right? Like, I think that the dubs, to loop back to weekends with Wazzo,

with my man Nate Duncan, he said the dubs have the best unit in the NBA when it comes to their defense, right? I think the bucks, fully healthy, are very close behind them on that end. If that shit travels, no matter what the series, who the opponent is, they're going to make it very hard on you to get buckets. As long as they got that, I'm not too nervous about the bucks, man.

Yonis is just, he's still unstoppable. And he's, you know, he's realized that he's not, you know, you're not Kevin Durant. You know, you're not some triple, triple, triple, all of that. Like, you're not that. He's cut out a lot of that fat from his game. And so, like, I don't know. still think the bucks are going to be extremely tough. Any hope for our Brooklyn Nets here?

KD only gone for about, you know, two months or so. Last season, you know, of course, Kyrie was allowed to play home games and James Hardin didn't look like a complete bum for large periods of it, just that slither while he was in Houston. Last season it was just Kyrie and James Hardin, they were phenomenal in those games. You know, like they were really good in all of those games. So there's that hope that they could return to that form from last season.

But yeah, not having your MVP kind of sucks. 16 of 19 with Just Harden, Kyrie, no KD. It's pretty good. The thing I keep coming back to with them right now, I mean, two things, really. One, if James Hardin is going to have an all-NBA case by the end of the season, this is when he's going to have to show that he's that kind of player still. Two, how many players on the nets do you really try? in terms of looking at what a playoff run could look like.

How many guys in this team do you really trust? Because it's obviously Durant. I think it's pretty obviously hardened, even all of his asterisk and qualifications aside. It's Kyrie whenever he can play. It's Patty Mills. That's four guys. After that, I mean, Joe Harris has a very checkered playoff record,

even assuming he gets back fully healthy and fully operational and all that. Who else are you really trusting on this team? David Duke, Jr., Dayron Sharpe. Did we mention Claxton? I like Claxton. I think he's probably next in line after those guys. I think Cladston when he's

playing is pretty reliable. Yeah, I like Claxton too, especially the combo with him and Hardin as a pick and roll lob threat. The problem is he is up for free agency this summer. And so you wonder considering the tax implications and long term ramifications,

would they be better off trading him? Unfortunately, that leaves them perilously thin as center to the point where like, I believe first game after the KD. The KD. Just supposed to pay 40 minutes a game in the playoffs at center? Well, they're not even starting him at center. They're starting 6-9 Dayron Sharp, who's like basically Paul Millsap without any offensive

game. They cannot trade Nick Claxton. I think a lot of what they're doing right now with some of this rotation yo-yoing is what we saw last year, too, which is like, let's just see what happens if we pull Bruce Brown and replace him with David Duke Jr. for a while. Let's see what happens if we pull Nick Claxton, throw Dayron Sharp out there. I think they're just seeing what they have. when it comes down to a Nick Clarkson's going to have to play

because so many of these other guys cannot hold playoff muster. I don't disagree with you, but it ultimately becomes a money issue and then it becomes out of perhaps out of Sean Marks's hands, you know? Yeah. So I don't know.

Cannot hold playoff muster. That's the new name of our podcast. I will say that eight of their next 10 are on the road. So it's possible that they go on a run here because Kyrie will be available for eight of the next 10. That's so funny. A team looks forward to road games

because they're fucking, one of their best players is actually allowed to play in them. That's just, yo, what a fucking season, man. The Nets wish they had a rodeo trip

or a Grammy's trip like some of these other teams do. Yeah, I mean, that's the sick irony of this all. It might put them in better position if they end up like three or four in the ease as opposed to one or two

because Kyrie will be playing in game one of that Eastern Conference finals, right? So who knows? Was, what number you want to go to? What numbers do I have left? You have four, six, and five. So the back half. That's all that is not that pathetic three-way trade.

Four? That is not the pathetic three-way trade. That is Paul George's timeline has been extended. Yet another injury on today's docket. He is extending the period of rest. whatever that means for a torn ligament in his right elbow, which means he'll be out in quotes a few more weeks. Clippers are 17,

more 17 and 15 before his injury, five and eight since, uh, not great. And I don't know what else to say here because there's not like a silver lining where it's like, oh, they can tank,

they can get the draft pick to surround Kauai and Paul George and move on into the future like punt this season. No, they give that draft pick to Oklahoma season. out right. So I don't know what to do here, Waz. What do you think? I mean, you know, before the season, if you were a clipper optimist, it's like, all right, they're going to do what they did against the jazz and even at points of the Sun series for an extended period of time during the regular season. You know, they're going to finish with like 44 wins. Kauai's going to come back for the

playoffs. They're going to be the most dangerous team in the West. And it's going to be amazing. And it just has not shaking out that way because, let's face it, Paul George, another guy who is constantly injured, you know, like that premise was predicated on Paul George playing 75, 72-ish games, which is just not going to be the case this season. And as much as we all love, Reggie Jackson and Luke Carnard and Marcus Morris. Amir coffee. Yeah. They are not the foundation of 45-win teams, you know. And so, yeah, this season has basically gone up and smoke on them. And it's unfortunate because it's basically an injury thing.

It's not a lack of personnel or talent. It's their guys haven't been available. And so they're stinking up the joint. That's unfortunate that's life in professional sports. Sometimes the injury luck doesn't shake in your favor. And, yeah, this season is over. They're done. You know, because of the nature of the playing, I'm sure they could still figure out a way

to be a temp seed and get smacked around, but the season's done for them. See, I don't see up in smoke, or if I do see up in smoke, I'm seeing the silver lining around the plumes of smoke here, because I see a team that, like, okay, they are absolutely underwhelming under the circumstances,

but considering the way that the clippers were built, which is to say entirely around Kauai and Paul George, that they're even 500 is pretty impressive, considering they've just lost more meaningful games to injury than any other team out there. this is the Marcus Morris show on way too many nights for me to be comfortable with it, and yet they're getting by. They haven't had Luke Canard for weeks,

which sounds like it wouldn't be a big deal until you realize he's like their fourth leading score, and that's all of a sudden really important. They just haven't had anybody. And so I see a vision where they have enough of a lead on the Blazers here to hang in the play-in. And if the Kauai stuff is true, if the Kauai stuff is true, that he could come back this season, they feel like the play-in team that nobody wants to face to me,

not the Lakers. The idea that you could be the Memphis Grizzlies and get all the way to the second seed and as a first round draw, you could get the clippers with Kauai and Paul George back in the lineup. Like, that sucks. That sucks.

They're not going to be a contender necessarily. I think they just will have to work their way back into it. But the idea that if they're able to be even remotely 500 until Paul George gets back, and then they can add those two guys back into the lineup and get back into the level, of defense that they were playing even without them. I don't know. I see something there.

Yeah, so three games separated between the nine and ten, the Clippers and ninth, the Blazers are in tenth. I think that's enough of a cushion where they can potentially just stay in the mix and the play. And like, they probably should be secretly rooting for the grizzlies and the jazz to rise in the West because all of a sudden you might be matched up with the jazz again. And that's probably the last team

the jazz are going to want to face in a playoff series. Yeah, ask, Ask Luca Donchich and the Mavs how fun it is to play playoff Kauai. Let's pivot briefly here because I do want to end with the whack trade that nobody wants to talk about. Because another injury that's like kind of shaping the standings in the Western Conference was Jemann Green. I don't really know what to say about this other than it's like pretty troubling because he's out at least two more weeks because he had soreness in his calf that has now become his precoct. official verbiage is the involvement of a, it's tied to the involvement of a disc in his lower back, which is like, what?

They've changed the injury designation from calf tightness to left L5's dash S1 disc injury recovery. Like, I don't even, like that sounds like one of Elon Musk's children. You know, it doesn't sound like an injury designation. I'm pretty concerned. Rob, what's the temperature in the bay right now? I mean, yes, lip discs and back injuries should have you concerned. They make me in general very nervous about a player's long ability to play for the rest of the season and potentially deeper into their career.

Like, once that stuff starts happening, it does not tend to go away. The cynic in me says the warriors of all organizations might be a little bit nervous about a with calf tightness persisting on the injury report without an explanation after what happened with Kevin Durant. And so that they tied it so explicitly to, oh, this is actually a back injury. This is a back injury. This is a big deal.

This is why he's on the injury report, why he could miss some time. That's what the cynic in me says, as far as why this stuff was outlined in the way it was. But the reality is, regardless of what's keeping him out, they need Draymond in such a huge way, not just defensively, but offensively. Well, that's the thing.

Like defensively, they've shown that they can be a pretty high-level defensive team without him somehow. I don't know if that's going to hold up. Offensively, they need him so badly for that second unit. It is the only way they survive. And if they don't have him, and if Clay can't be himself fully yet, which understandably he cannot, every minute without Steph is going to be painful. Yeah, I mean, to me, the draymond of it all, like, yeah, they can be a competent regular season defense. not going to be some jugging out on defense without Draymond Green, which goes without saying.

This is the best defensive player of the generation. So, and if they're going to make their money on defense and Draymond's not going to be there, like, I'm sorry, I don't believe in this team's ability to just straight up outgun and outscore people. This ain't 2015 no more. They're not that type of offense anymore, right? Where they walk in and it's just like, teams don't know what the hell to do with them offensively.

Yeah. And again, Steph is 32 years old. Clay is coming off of how many injuries. He's 30. Like, it's not like they're going to, again, I can't stress this enough. I get it. We think of Steph and Clay as these world-beating, insane supernova offensive talents, which they are and have been throughout their career.

However, this team is not going to win on offense. They're going to win on defense. And they're going to do that because they have Draymond Green. And so if this back stuff and CAV stuff is persisting, because he's been insane this season at points, right? Like all-time great defender level. He's been peak Draymond defensive level that we've seen throughout his career at points this season.

And if you don't have that, like, that goes without saying, man. I would be very, very, very troubled if I was a Warriors fan because Draymond is the key to what they're doing on that end. Yeah, if there is a silver. lining here. It's that this provides them opportunities to start playing some of the young guys last night against Detroit. They started Jonathan Kaminga in the front core in Dremont's spot. And like, it's nice to be able to turn to one of the best raw talents in the NBA and just give him a bunch of minutes. Like maybe we see more of Moses Moody. Maybe we see James Wiseman at some

point. He's also been hurt for a while. This would be a great opportunity for him to soak up a lot of those big man minutes. But you're right. I don't think they're in the position of silver linings at this point, especially after getting Clay back and everyone thinking that the band was back. It turned out it was only for one, if they had a minute of all three of those guys, Jemann, Clay, Steph on the court. And then we really haven't seen Jemann since.

So it's difficult. And you definitely want home court advantage, especially if this is going to be ultimately a Phoenix Sun's Golden State showdown. And in particular, if it ends up being Warriors' nets and all of a sudden, Kyrie Irving can't play in either arena. So that's one thing to keep in mind.

Well, I think it's a good reminder that anything less than a almost entirely operational Draymond Green, you know, I would say like 85, 90% plus and the Warriors are not going to make it out of the West. The suns are too good. They're too uncompromising. They absolutely need Draymond

to be in really, really good and healthy form. So whatever they have to do in the regular season, however long they need to hold them out, they should do that. That's really the only important thing between now and the end of the season for them. Please give me a fully freaking roster, sons, warriors, you know, jazz. Please give me everybody with their freaking players intact so I can watch a real postseason. And just, yeah, just give me John Moran in one piece so I can have my fun postseason. Speaking of teams potentially hoping to be intact by the playoffs, you like that one?

Um, big trade that went down yesterday for the Denver Nuggets. Yeah. Who is hoping to be intact here? Which of these teams are you talking about? I'm talking about my, my Denver Nuggets here. Okay. Because they are loading up for the stretch run getting Bryn Forbes and all of his 45% three point shooting, uh, in a three way trade.

I'll circle back to them in the second, but the details here. Denver gets Bryn Forbes, uh, who the spurs signed to a one-year contract. So pretty good return on just, just bringing a guy. back and letting him bounce around for 45 games. The spurs get watch over and Gomez from the Celtics. I'm surprised he hasn't been a spur already. And they also get Denver's 2028 second round pick. And the Celtics kid, PJ Dozier and Bowl Bowl, both of whom are still on the men from

pretty serious injuries. Dozier is officially out for the year with Tor and ACO and Bull Bull Bull, just had foot surgery. And he was recently sent back to Denver because he failed the physical. So they basically, I think, did this for, for. cash saving purposes. The Spurs probably did this for the second round pick, but I do want to talk about it for the Nuggets because they're essentially flipping two guys they had bird rights on who could potentially have been, you know, role players, rotation players for them next season

and beyond in order to bring in Forbes help their shooting with success to me that maybe they know something about Jamal Murray's recovery and or Michael Porter Jr.'s recovery that they're not letting on or that they just haven't revealed yet because this seems like the type of move a team makes in order to make a slight little push. And if you look at the standings, they're not that far behind the Mavs or even,

they're pretty far behind the jazz. But they're squarely in the top six of the West. Well, I think that or it says something about their guard rotation that we all have seen and all know, which is that it's one of the weakest in the league and that even a guy like Bryn Forbes is going to punch

it up. The Psiolo getting 28 minutes a game is just not ideal honestly. So Bryn Forbes was playing like 17 minutes a game for the Spurs this season. He's made more threes than all but two members of the Nuggets.

That's what we're working with here. We're working with an underwhelming three-point shooting team, a guy who is a shooter and a movement shooter who can help them. Can I guess the hell? Why the hell not? Yeah. Yeah. If you want to guess the two, go forward. It's Yokic and is it Rivers? You're O for two, my friend.

It's Will Barton. Will Barton and Monta Morris are the two. Oh, wow. I was really bad. Wise, what do you think about the move? Look. Brin Forbes can neither dribble nor defend anybody. But again, like y'all said, in Denver, your guards aren't really asked to do a lot of shot creation,

dribble, playmaking type of stuff because Yolkidge is so elite at. all of that stuff and setting guys up. So he's just going to come in and be a threat. And Yokej is somebody on a nightly basis, is drawing two defenders. And, you know, again, he's one of the best passers in the league, if not the best, at the moment. And so, yeah, having somebody who creates that much gravity

can make a shot when he's open, like, that's going to help what they're doing just right now, straight up. Jamal Murray, man, coming off of that type of injury. And he is a pretty ball-dominant guy. for the team. Like, he is the guy that's holding the ball whenever Yokic doesn't have it, right? And so much of their offense comes off of the Murray two-man game with Yokic.

And that's physically taxing. So I wonder how much he's going to be able to just do that stuff. Maybe they're so locked in mentally that it just becomes second nature and even coming off of ACL. It's just going to be so good and so potent right out the gates. I have a hard time believing that's going to be the case, you know. So I'm rooting for it. I'm somebody who love watching Yokic and Murray's interplay within a game like that the way that

these guys are so in front ahead of everything defenses are trying to do to them together, right? Like instinctually knowing where each other wants to go, where they're going to pass it, where they're going to move to, like, that shit is some of the most fun stuff in the league. And I think that Denver's off. We talk about elite units. when Murray and Yolkes are together for Denver, that's an elite unit within the league. Like, we can put up buckets against any defense.

You know, so I'm excited to see that return. I just wonder how potent that's going to be. And yeah, the Bryn Forbes of it all, yeah, the guy can shoot his ass off, but like, do not expect him to do anything else for this team. Even within that, he could be the kind of player who you could ease Murray in a little bit more easily if you have someone like Forbes, not because

Forbes is going to handle a ton. But there was an interesting model with what Forbes was for Milwaukee last season where he would be the screener for Janus in a pick and roll. You could do that same thing with Yokic. You can do dribble handoffs with Yokic. You can do a lot of things that let Murray be I'm going to work my way into a rhythm.

I'm going to play off the ball some. I'm going to play limited minutes. I'm not going to have as much ball handling responsibility because we have a really high level shooter coming off of one of the best bigs and one of the best players in the NBA because let me tell you, the, uh, the bloom is off the rows on, on the Faku Campaso experiment. So they, they need guards in a big way.

Austin Rivers, I mean, he's, he's trying. He's just, he's fine. He's a fine rotation guard for the NBA, but not, not a guy who should be playing the role that he is. They just need help. They need help in such a big way. Look at all his intrigue we got out of this trade. Oh, my God.

Stop. And we didn't even get into Wancho Heron and Gomez. Come on right now. Two of these, yo, there's a torn ACL in a foot surgery. It's a big move for the Celtics. Yeah. I believe they have to carry those rosters spots the entire year, too, if they want to retain the bird, right?

So it just means like their depth could be even more compromised. But that's another story. Last note here from Chris Grenum on Twitter is the first ever trade between the Spurs and the Celtics. I'm happy for those two. Well, you know, we are always reading for them to get together. That's an insane. fact. Right? Like, these are like new franchises that have only been around for like 30 or 40 years.

Like in the history of the league, they've never executed a trade with each other. Allegedly, reportedly. All right. We'll leave you on that note. Close to 45 minutes. That is our birthday gift to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you for your production and for being born. For the rest of us, we'll be back next week, same time, someplace. We'll see it.