The Ringer NBA Show - Instant Reaction Pod with Bill Simmons! OG Anunoby Traded to the Knicks! | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 30, 2023

Justin and Rob are joined by The Ringer’s Bill Simmons to break down the trade that brings OG Anunoby to the New York Knicks, with RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley heading to the Toronto Raptors. The guys discuss Anunoby’s fit with Tom Thibodeau’s Knicks as well as how Barrett and Quickley will take to their new roles in Toronto. They wrap things up by talking through whether or not the Knicks will pull off another complementary deal, who the new “Trade Machine MVP” is, and which other players we should expect to be dealt next. Hosts: Justin Verrier and Rob Mahoney Guest: Bill Simmons Producer: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from Offguard. And I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guide, Pasha Gigi, is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to this special trade emergency edition of GroupShat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me as always, Rob Mahoney.

We have a special guest in the Big Wasr role. It's Bill Simmons. What's up, Bill? Big shoes to fill. Big shoes to Phil. Glad to be here. Happy almost New Year's guys. Well, just let us know when you want us to clear out for like a five-minute rant on

James Harden to fully get into the Waz headspace. And we'll give you the room you need. And Michael B. Jordan. this is one of my favorite trades in a while because we have no answers yet on all four of these guys. And I feel like both teams won the trade, but I'm excited to hear what you guys think. Yeah, what do we want to start, Justin? Do you want to lay out the specifics? Sure. We can go through the details. So out of nowhere, there's really no prelude to this trade, as there typically is for most of these trades. The Knicks get O.G. Nen and Obie, Precious and Chua, Malachi Flynn. The Raptors get R.J. Barrett.

a manual quickly and a 2024 second round pick. It's interesting. From Detroit. So that's almost definitely the 31st pick in the draft. Not nothing. That's a pretty good asset. Right. And so now this isn't prime Shaquille O'Neal,

which is what we thought was the price for OJ. Ananoby for the past two years. But it seems like this is a pretty good trade for both sides. Bill, what did you think here? I'm excited to kind of have answers on all these guys. That was my first thought. O.G. and O.B.

The chemistry's been off with the Raptors for three years. They keep changing the guys, but him and Siakum and maybe two others have been there the whole time. So at some point, maybe it's you. Is he just a 15 points a game, three rebounds, a couple threes and great defense guy? Is there a little more there? I don't know. Quickly, really want to see him have his own team. RJ, I have no idea.

and we can talk about him later. And then precious and Tibbs just feels like a match band in heaven. So I watched the Raptors coincidentally last night play the Celtics as the Celtics tried to keep their undefeated home streak alive, which I know you guys are riveted by. It's true. And we're missing half of our starters somehow outlast the Raptors. But it was the same feeling I've gotten watching the Raptors all year, Rob. It's like, this team's off. The pieces don't totally work.

We felt this way. This is year three of that now. And it was just like, what is this? team. So it was clear they were going to do something. Did you think this was the most they could get for Ananovi? Interesting question. Because, yeah, Justin, you framed it in terms of the Shaquille-O-Neal-level hall we've all been talking about. And I think a lot of that stems from the Raptors reportedly turning down. I think it was three first-round picks from Memphis a few seasons ago in terms of that kind of trade negotiation. And that's kind of set the market and the conversation around

Ananobe for a long time. I wonder if we misread that. not as the Raptors saying three picks isn't enough, but just categorically as a franchise, we're not interested in starting from scratch. What we want is players like this. Admittedly a wild card, an RJ Barrett, a guy who, yeah,

I don't know how to forecast his future at all, but I'm most excited young player-wise at Quickly's fit here. Like, quickly and Scotty Barnes, that is a match made in heaven in terms of a point guard who is never going to be a super high-level playmaker, but a good shooter, a good defender, a guy who knows how to play without the ball, pairing him with your ball dominant,

creative wing, who's a great passer. That makes a lot of sense. And then RJ kind of slotting in as we'll see what we can get between those two. So maybe it's more along those lines where Toronto, look, I'm pleased as hell that they honestly made a trade. That feels like a Christmas miracle in itself. So I'm happy to kind of judge these returns and see what quickly can do there.

Did I miss Emmanuel quickly becoming the new Chris Paul? Because everything that has, I've seen coming off of this trade is that quickly is the best player in the trade. He needs a new start in order to really show what his value is. I am a big quickly fan. I always kind of thought of him more as the microwave Jamal Crawford late stage sort of player than he is maybe Knicks level Jamal Crawford. And so I guess what is quickly at this point?

Well, that's the thing is he doesn't have to be the guy coming off the bench to put up points. He can do that and he can slot in next to Jalen Brunson. He was a part of the Knicks best lineups this season with Brunson and Randall playing more of a tertiary role. But now we get to see kind of what he has as more of a lead guard or at least kind of a secondary creator alongside guys like Barnes and Seaccom, which that feels like a pretty comfortable spot for him. I'll tell you one thing quickly is a guy who sucked in the playoffs for the Knicks. And it's tough because, and we saw the Warriors were in this spot with Jordan Poole who did not suck in the playoffs for them at least two years ago because he was one of the reasons they won the title. you get in this spot where you don't want to pay $30 million a year for a guy who's like a little too good to be your six man, but not quite good enough to be your lead guy and the guy who has the ball in the last five minutes in the game. I also feel like I look at this from a Knicksite. I tweeted this today. Can you get, can you find 80 to 90% of what quickly did for you with other players that are available in the trade market? Like we know Utah wants to trade Jordan Clarkson at this point. They have all these guards that need to play. Could you,

could you turn in expiring into Jordan Clarkson? And then hope he's 80 to 85% as good as quickly was. And I also had he was a restricted free agent coming up and is the type of guy that I think another team would have come in and been like, we're going to put the Knicks to the fire here. Here's a 110 million or whatever the max was. Are you guys ready to pay $25 million a year for a six man? Then there's the Brunson piece of it, Justin, where the Brunson has the ball all the time.

And if you're at the end of games and you're playing Brunson and quickly together, I'm going to be able to get whatever shot I want on the other side. Right. So your offense has to be spectacular. And this is what I said last week on my pot. I just felt like the Knicks were between they weren't explosive enough, but then they also weren't big enough without Robinson. So it's like, what is this team?

This is a team that's just not a threat in the east. So now you have Anobie. Now you're better defensively. And there's still one move, one more move coming. right if they're really serious about this year. I don't feel like they're done yet. Yeah, NNobi definitely feels like he fits the Knicks type, where NNobi at his best offensively,

despite the fact that he thinks he should have this different role, be able to handle the ball more. He needs to be able to play bully ball and stand in the corner and shoot threes. That's what he's good at. And that fits what Tibbs wants to do. He just wants to out muscle teams a lot of the time. And it does clear up, as you were saying, Bill, opportunities for Brunson to just be magical,

which he has at various points in the season, the flip side of this is it also opens up opportunities for Julius Randall to be magical, and I think that's more like dark magic that nobody wants in their lives. But at the same time, this does feel like it clarifies that starting Nick's lineup a little bit. And I think you hit the key point there, Bill. I think it also gives them runway to figure out the next move down the line. It might be disappointing for Nick's fans at this point. They're waiting for a superstar.

Finally, we talk about Embed, we talk about Mitchell, and it's a star role player in OG and Anobie. but if anything, I think this just makes it easier to bring on someone like even a Mitchell, maybe not the best fit, but like the next guy who is going to lead the next Knicks error, I think OJ is a perfect fit for that sort of team. Yeah, and RJ was not going to be a fit for that kind of team. Just by skill set, you know, it's not even just the difference in their percentages shooting, but how they're guarded. And teams just don't respect RJ's jumper at all.

It leads to a lot of clutter in the lane, which is why the Knicks have to outmustle people because it's the only way they're ever going to get to the basket with kind of the spacing they had set up. You're losing a good shooter in quickly, but you're gaining a good shooter who's big in Ananobe. And the timing of this trade does not feel like an accident. Like the Knicks just got absolutely bodied by the magic. Franz Wagner, Apollo Bancaro, the exact kind of game where you could use OG Ananoby. The Raptors just had a starting lineup change earlier this week, where they took Dennis Schroeder out of their starting lineup, trying to get more spacing on the floor and more shooting on the floor.

Now both teams are kind of getting what they need for the moment. moment, but there are moves that could serve both franchises long term ultimately. And I like the idea of Ananovi as a stepping stone toward what this team can ultimately be. And wouldn't you know it? Another CAA client in New York. Like, how does this keep happening? Isn't it Leon Rose's son who is OG's agent? I think that's true.

So I would flip that around the other way. They had like real ties to quickly because I've heard the CIA thing a few times. Quickly was a very difficult guy for those. I think they knew quickly since he was like a, you know, know, a junior in high school. The RJ, let's take these guys one at a time. Yep. Because all the Knicks fans that I know were super frustrated and kind of like either half

out, three-fourths out or all the way out on RJ. Because, you know, he's not a guy that necessarily, if you ISO to him, he can't do anything. And now we have cool stats where you can look all this stuff up, right? Not awesome as the ball hinder and pick and roll. Not awesome as an ISO guy. Okay, at post-ups. spotty three-point shooter, but a guy that if you watch on the right night, you're like,

oh, he's interesting. He plays really hard. There's something here. Like, I liked him for a while, but now it's year four. And you kind of, you start becoming who you are in year four. And to me, he's not consistent enough. I thought he needed to change his scenery. So good gamble for Toronto.

And he's Canadian, which, you know, leads us toward maybe this is the gateway for the Wigan-Ca-Ockham trade that I've been pushing forever. and just put more Canadians on that team. But I guess what do you guys think ultimately about RJ? Like, is he ever an All-Star? Is he ever the third best guy in a finals team? Like, I don't see either of those things for him. Well, Bill, I'm just glad you're here for this historic moment

of bringing the Canadian diaspora a little bit closer to home. I know this has been a passion of yours for a long time. For years, for literally 25 years, I've wanted it. And now we're getting closer. Yeah, but I'm pretty flaky on RJ, Justin. And, like, I, again, there are nights where you believe in it, but it feels like just about the most hollow and the least reliable 18 to 19 points a game you're going to find in the NBA. Yeah. Well, the other thing is, and Rosillo has been talking about this on his pod for, I think, two years.

It was weird that he didn't play crunch time at all. Like, I think he was seventh and crunch time minutes for them, Rosillo said two weeks ago, which to me is the ultimate red flag. If your coach is thinking in the last five minutes of games, you're not one of my five, then it's time for you to probably get traded. And then if quickly in Brunson were two of your five, what are you going to do? You're not winning four playoff rounds with that. So you mentioned this was the stepping stone type of trade. I can't wait to bring the Celtics into this guys.

You know, it's been almost what? How? How are they related? Well, we traded for Ray Allen in 2007. And me and all the other Celtic fans were like, what are we doing? We have Paul Pearson, Ray Allen and nothing, what is this team? Why did we do this? But it was the gateway to the KG trade. I always thought that was like the best gateway trade. This is probably will not have the same results as that. But this is a trade now where you have

Brunson, you have Anobie, who's a three, not a two. But now a Mitchell trade makes more sense or somebody like that because they kept all their picks. They still have the Fournier expiring, which is like almost 19 million. They still have the Mitchell Robinson. It sucks to trade a guy who's hurt, but he's still making 16 a year. And you could package basically any combination of anything now for a guy making 40 and all your picks and really make a move. And they're a little closer than they were, I think 24 hours ago is my takeaway. Yeah, that's why I like it for the Knicks.

If only because RJ always felt like a placeholder for the player that was ultimately going to fill that role. He has done an admiral job of forcing whatever he was, whatever star potential he he had into a box to become a role player. He's really excelled better than I ever expected of kind of being an ancillary option for the Knicks. And I'm curious to see how he's going to evolve on that with the Raptors. I think it makes sense that he doesn't really shoot threes that well. And so in that sense, it makes him a perfect Raptor. But he always just seemed a little out of sorts for that Knicks team. And so I do feel like maybe giving him some more space to roam

with the Raptors where they can rip and run might actually lead him to something that he's going to be. But honestly, I just, I don't know what his future holds. And if it is going to be at this level, that contract is pretty arduous because it's going to go on for another two, three seasons after this. Rob, did you notice what Justin just did there? It was very nice and diplomatic.

But he called RJ a good stats, bad team guy. But he didn't say it, but he did it for 90 seconds. But you're basically saying, I want to see this guy on bad team. teams. Yeah, I mean, he's actually a good, he's like a decent stats, good team guy, I guess, would be the evolution of that. Oh, yeah, maybe that's the ceiling. Decent stats, good team guy. I mean, the precious piece of this, I don't, I don't know if it should be in the first 50 minutes of this podcast, but I don't want to sleep on that because we've seen Tibbs hang on

to Taj Gibson here like a binky blanket for 15 years. And precious is, I mean, Rob, don't you think precious on this Knicks team is just an immediate. We're going to be watching a week from now. Like, oh my God, this is like the perfect Tibbs guy. Jesus. Okay, I kind of want the isolated Tibbs cam during every precious to chew a minute because he is definitely the kind of player who will make a coach pull their hair out. And yet, because like the Knicks are playing, Taj Gibson as their backup center right now,

you almost have to play him. Like he has to be a meaningful part of this team. And I'm kind of curious to see how the benches for both of these teams play out now. because New York's bench had been pretty solid for them, solid to the point that they started kind of messing with their starting lineup. Dante DiVincenzo goes in there. Josh Hart closes in place of RJ Barrett, as you were alluding to, Bill. Like, they've had all these options because of their bench,

but now everything's a little more shallow. Now everything's a little more reliant on the precious to chew us to make everything go and make everything work. That kind of suits tips in some ways because he only wants to play seven guys in the first place. But precious is now essential personnel for the New York Knicks. And I don't feel great about that. that, but here we are. Do you think biggest loser surgically repaired OJ. Anirnobe's knee being on a TIPS team? Although I guess he played for Nick Nurse. It was like kind of Tibbs 2.0 with running guys

into the ground. So maybe he's used to it. Maybe the biggest winner though, because whatever wink, wink, wink, nudge, deal OJ. Anobie is probably getting to remain a member of the New York Knicks is probably good for a guy with a surgically repaired knee. Yeah. I do love that Mitchell Robinson's injury has sent Tibbs into this existential crisis where he's reaching back to his old life with Taj Gibson. He just needs a center in this deal because God forbid if he ever play small ball and tries to do things that are a little bit more inventive. This guy has to play big and physical no matter what. It's just like, it's so perfect. Where was Jo Kib Noah? He's got to be like, what am I chuff liver? I can't get brought back. One end of no big question I had for you guys.

Yeah. Could they have done better than this? Like if Messiah had called us and said, hey, I'm going to trade Ananoi this weekend. Like I always thought, and I don't know where Indiana is, maybe they're not, they're not, they're kind of in no man's land trying to figure out are we buyers or sellers. But I always thought if they wanted to put Mathuron on the table with Jaris Walker, something like that, or Philly, if Philly wanted to, I guess just put a bunch of picks in. Who knows, Darrell's probably going to play until February. But I just, I'm surprised that this was the best deal, but at the same time, I really do like quickly. And I think for what this Toronto team needed, especially watching them last night and

the other times I've watched them, it just feels like the last five minutes of the game, even dating back to the Van Viet era the last couple years, they just never had closers. They would always, any close game, you just always felt like they were going to come up short. So I get the seduction with quickly, but it is kind of crazy that we were talking three first Ron picks and an asset for him a year ago. This does feel less than what we thought. Some of that might be the difference in that timing, where yes, you could get more a year or two ago, but now staring down an expiring contract for Ogen and OBI where a player like that is going to have an incredible market. There's going to be a lot of interested teams. And yeah, I think

it does come down to what the Raptors wanted. And this is a team that as much as possible has tried to stave off rebuilds going back to the end of the Rudy Gay era. You know, like they have not wanted to bottom out for a variety of reasons. And so maybe they were just staring down those first round picks and saying, honestly, we'd rather have young talent. We'd rather have guys who can step in, especially once they got Barnes and be a part of something that's growing as to whether that's growing in the immediate. Like, I think they are, they're better positioned. They're better. Like, the structure of this team feels better than it did a day ago. I don't know that the Raptors are going to be a great team this season or dramatically better team this season, but they don't have to

be dramatically better to make a run at the final few play in spots either. Like, there is ground here for the taking for them. So Seaccom has to be the next trade then. Like I don't see how he makes sense at this point. Yeah, especially with RJ in there. Yeah. I felt like he hasn't made sense there for the last two or three seasons. And we've been here.

So at this point, nothing will surprise me, but I would hope this is the first domino to fall. Rob, how do you feel just in your head about a spacing with R.J. Barrett and see Ackham? How's that? What kind of defenses are we throwing at, a team with two of those five guys out there. Don't forget Yacob Pertil.

Another important part of their spacing. Oh my God. This is like the anti-spacing team. Shruder's good. But look, just having quickly, plus Gary Trent Jr. shooting is turned a little bit. Plus, Scotty Barnes has been hitting threes well this season. I mean, that might be the best shooting Raptors team in years at this point.

So, yeah, fair. Onward and upward for Toronto. Well, maybe that's why they targeted players over picks here. I wonder if Scotty Barnes at this point is just two. good in order to bottom out and that you'll always be in the like 10 to 12 range with this team that actually trying to play for picks isn't really the way to go there well hold on that point don't don't they have san Antonio gets their top six protected first right from the person so so you either have to like crater or be a little bit better where you don't want us to give them like the seventh

pick in the draft that would suck right true right and so i don't know i also wonder like are we over valuing first round picks at this point. We're coming off an era where they're like, everyone is going for five to six first round picks. And you look at the teams that have been accumulating them. And like, what have they actually done with any of these? Look at Oklahoma City. They have drafted so well with virtually like 10% of the draft hall that they have that what are going to do with all these guys that are piling up behind them. I wonder if it actually makes sense. And we're getting into an era where like actually going for younger distressed assets is actually the better thing. And that's why to me, the most interesting part,

of this trade is that like this is kind of a messiah challenge trade to himself like he's kind of been missing over the past couple years holding on to guys for too long i wonder if actually finding something and quickly and bear it might rehab his own value as a gm here because like those are the type of guys that i think might be undervalued and might be the market inefficiency right now yeah even if they had gotten three first back for ogy at this stage that still puts them what third maybe fourth in terms of acquired draft capital. If some big trade came available, you know, the thunder are ahead of them in line. The jazz are ahead of them in line. I think the pelicans are probably still ahead of them in line with their assets. And so what do three first really get you unless any of those individual

picks is going to get you straight up at the top of the lottery? If they're just kind of mid to late first, that kind of capital doesn't go very far right now. As you were talking, I was thinking, biggest loser of not getting Ananobe. And I think we all think Ananobe is a good place. but I don't think he's, I don't think he's a $40 million guy. I don't think he's like special, but I think he's a really good 3-&D guy. But watching OKC beat the living fuck out of Denver last night.

And you think like, all right, how do you improve this team without messing with it? And, you know, you have like basically the, the Wigan spot. There's a couple like their seventh, eighth, ninth guys.

If you could just put an awesome guy and give that awesome guy, they're 30 minutes, an awesome fourth, fifth, sixth guy instead of like some of their bench guys, that would have been a really interesting Ananovi spot. Just like throw him on that team without them just with a bunch of picks. But I, as you said, Justin, it doesn't seem like

Messiah wanted picks. He wanted players, which was one of the cool things about this trade. It was like an old school basketball trade. It's two for two. The Detroit second round picks and asset. But for the most part, it's like, eh, not sure about our two guys here. What about those two guys? You're not sure, and we're just swapping. Two for two. The Malachi Flynn erasure happening on this podcast is unacceptable.

I didn't even know he was in the trade, but just mentioned it. But yeah, sorry, sorry Malachi. Well, you're talking about losers. I think Philly probably has to be up there too because not only are you taking him off the market, probably, because I assume the Knicks are going to sign OG to a big extension this summer. But you're keeping him away from the Sixers who probably need him more than they need is Zach Levine or Donovan Mitchell. They don't need star power. They need ancillary star role players and OG is the best one of those we have in the league. Yeah, we're in a weird place with

the trade market right now where there are kind of, if not a surplus of guys on the market yet, a surplus of guys who plausibly could be, who are more ball dominant guards or scoring-oriented guards. And most of the teams that are up there in the standings right now that are really contending, I mean, their scoring is accounted for. They're looking for perimeter defense. They're looking for size and flexibility and switchability. They're looking for. They're looking for a guy like, oh, gee, who on the right night in the right matchup, he's guarding opposing centers, right? That's the kind of optionality he gives you. And so for a player like that to be taken off the market when now we're just looking around at the Levines and the Mitchells, a lot of sameness, I think that's a tough blow for a lot of contenders and would be contenders under these circumstances.

Well, and you think with the Knicks, too, who do you have to beat Needs? You have to be Boston, who's 16 and O at home. I'm going to say it again. But you got to go through Boston and you've got to be able to do. defend Tatum and you got to be able to defend Brown. You got to be able to defend Janus. And you have to be able to defend Janus and Pat Conantin. And you have to be able to defend Jimmy Butler. And, you know, it's just always good to have one guy who can do that and potentially opens the door for them for two. I was looking at, to me, there has to be another next trade because you got to replace to quickly punch off the bench. even if it's like T.J. McConnell, who I continue to throw into trade, so I continue to like, but

just say, hey, TJ, can you, can you just for eight minutes a half, like run the offense for us when Brunson's not playing? Even that, you know, could he be 70% of what quickly was? I like where they're at, but I still don't feel like from a firepower standpoint. There has to be a monster trade coming. And it's, you know, Mitchell is the guy we're all staring at. Does he go to Miami? Does he go to Brooklyn? Does he go to the next? Is there some mystery team we don't know about? But it's finding hard to believe Cleveland's going to keep Mitchell and wait until the summer.

He's going to have more value in January and February, I think. Don't you? So potential T.J. McConnell, Josh Hart, Isaiah Hardenstein. Yeah, that's a feisty team. Is this too much of every dad's favorite player on one team, I guess is my question? It's a feisty fisty fist pump team. A lot of slap and floorboard. going on. That's for sure, Justin.

T.J. McConnell could have gone to Villanova. He would have been totally happy there. Perfect fit there, right next to Dante DeVincenzo? Yeah. I mean, do we think that Mitchell is the fit here? On the one hand, I don't think he's ideal. I don't, but I'm not against it. Yeah, I don't love him in Brunson together. I know Rob

doesn't either, but if you're going to go all in on somebody, there's not that many somebody's, you know? There's how many top, we're doing you made me do yet another ringer top hunched list. and I'm going through it and you do those top 30 guys

and just none of them are available and if you're going to trade everything for a top 30 guy, even Towns isn't available at this point. So who's the guy? Yeah, that's the thing and that's why I kind of don't think this has to be a move made this season.

The big salary that would be outgoing in a potential deal is probably Julius Randall. He's got another year under contract, another year to work with. Maybe this is the kind of thing where you get this together for now, you get Ogen and O'B comfortable. You figure out what your starting five looks like

and then you're playing a longer game with the trade market as the Knicks always are, honestly. But there is that glaring hole at the two where Devin Chino is so up and down, so streaky as a player. His decision making offensively can really be pretty infuriating sometimes, but the effort is there.

He'll get, like, have games where he just gets four offensive rebounds that change a quarter. He has those performances in him, but I don't know that you want him as a starter. And it's pretty clear at this point that Tibbs doesn't want, Quentin Grimes is the starter either. So if you're not plugging Josh Hardin there,

I don't know who the long-term answer is. So whether it's Donovan Mitchell, whether it's Zach Levine, whether it's a player to be named later. There is an opening there for sure. Zach Levine. The name has been dropped. Well, let me ask you guys this question, because it's something I've been considering.

I love Jalen Brunson. As we mentioned, he's gotten even better this year. Seems like the Knicks fans really love him. Seems like he's a Knicks player. He has that sort of like grinded out spirit to him. Are we sure this guy is going to be on the final edition of the Knicks when they hit their nirvana and they get that big star. Wow. Like, are we sure that this guy is a keeper long term?

Becky Hammond has entered the chat. Jesus. Yeah, I guess so. Can we believe in short kings in this era? Yeah. I think the important thing is that he's not the king. He's a king among kings. You know, he's like one of your best players, but maybe not your definitively best player.

And that that is what handicaps the Knicks right now. And that's okay. Like, it's okay that he's just one of the 20 or so best guys in the league and amazing offensively and improving. That's, I don't see why there's anything wrong with that. And this is a team that given its talent base does overachieve. Isn't that what we appreciate and love about the Knicks is that they grind out games, they probably shouldn't win, that they beat some more talented teams, they probably shouldn't beat. Like, that's an admirable thing.

The issue for them, because you mentioned maybe this is in the year where they make another move, I actually think that 4-N-EA contract at 18.6, which is expiring with the way their contracts are going to work in general. And if they pay O.G. and Nob and they're paying Randobe and they're paying Randall and they're paying Brunson, they're just not going to have flexibility to add another bigger piece. So they kind of have to move that deal for somebody by February. And whether that's just a smaller move like Jordan Clarkson, or you get Terry Rozier is another guy, I think, would be really good for them and potentially, could even play some crunch time or some, you know, some play next to Brunson. But I think they have to parlay for Nane and as something. You just didn't raise the point before we started the pod, Rob.

Now that Ananobe has been traded, who is our new trade machine go-to guy? Oh, my gosh. Who's going to be the 20, 23, 24 trade machine MVP? Because Ananobe on Fandul before this trade was like minus 400 to win the MVP. And I don't think Zach Levine, you know, there's been action on him, but I just don't I'm not buying it. Is it DeJante

Murray? I feel like he's kind of locked down the favorite spot, right? Dejante Murray is a great one because from a distance, a lot of fan bases will think that he's still playing good defense and they'll talk themselves into him being a great addition for their team without realizing that that ship has sailed maybe several

seasons ago at this point. Has it sailed or is he unhappy? Because that's a, that's a tough one to figure out because he's on a weird But he's stored it in another dock. It's at a distant pier you have to drive to now to access. But that's a perfect one. Because, yeah, Levine, I think there's going to be a lot of people, as we're trade machining, who will talk themselves out of Zach Levine just on principle.

He's just not the kind of player that some teams need. He's not to everyone's taste based on his shot selection, based on his style of play. Or if you want to win games and be in the playoffs. Maybe overly harsh. But sure, I take your point. but Dejante Murray is the archetype of a player that I think is more broadly appealing in the same way that OG is.

Well, is the answer right in front of us where Pascal Seacom has to be in the conversation at the very least. He's on the ballot if he's not at the top of it at this point. Oh, Fandul, I just saw Samad shooting up for Draymond Green. You could have had him at 50 to 1 yesterday. He's now 35 to 1. I'm not sure what's going on here.

That's a good one. This is a good breakout for us, though. For top 100, this is a good breakout for us. top 10 trade machine guys, just like a little offshoot, some side blurbs. I think that could do good numbers for us. So we think Siakum's one, or you think it's DeJante Murray?

I would say Murray won, maybe Seacom too. In the spirit of a fluid list, Dejante is one, but he's probably going to drop. Seacum is a, he's rocking steady. He's always going to be top three until he gets eventually moved or signs elsewhere. Murray is very in right now. Jeremy Grants in there.

Brogton. Is Jared Allen on that list for you? because he is for me. He's on the trade machine list where like you don't actually want to trade him, but you feel like you have to. Like nobody wants to make Jerry Allen trades. It's just, yeah, it's just like,

oh, I need to center Jared Allen. He makes a lot of money and seems out of place. Rob, first of all, speak for yourself because I don't think I haven't tried 17 Jared Allen to OKC trades. Oh, I've tried to trade him everywhere too, but I'm reluctant to do it. Like, he seems like a good hang.

He's a great vibes guy. He's a good player. but Cleveland needs some kind of shift, some kind of answer. And he is the easiest answer to provide for by trading Jared Allen here and there. But who exactly needs an extra pretty traditional center these days? It's a tough market. If Presti gets really serious, it's going to be like the Scorsese movie when like, Give Me Shelter starts playing.

You're like, oh, what's going on? Are we about to have a montage? And then all of a sudden he just starts grabbing. It's like, oh, my God, he traded for Jared Allen. My God, they got Jordan Clarkson. and he just starts cashing in those picks because I think he should. As you know, I am a big, your window is your window. Don't try to think it's going to be 12 years long.

She's one of the best players in the world. He's fucking kicking ass night after night now and he's staring down the best dudes in the league and he's outplaying them more than 50% of the time. This team with the way Chet's playing, they have an obligation to go try to chase the title. I don't even think it's an argument anymore. cash in the fucking picks, go for the title. That's the thing about the Jared Allen type trades, though, is that Shea is one of the best players in the world.

Chet Holmgren is also one of the best players in the world. And I want him playing as much five as he can handle short term and long term. But you need some sort of luxury security with that in a playoff series. Yes. You're asking a lot from a second year guy. He's going to have to play against Anthony Davis in a series potentially in Yokeage, a Gobert Towns combo. Like they just don't have enough size yet.

So whether it's Jared Allen, whether it's pertal, like they got to get somebody. Don't you think who else am I misadjusting? And they got to get some big body. I think the scary thing with OKC is I wonder if they don't need to make any move. Because they could just use this postseason. Yeah, I just think that they could use this postseason as almost like a test case to see what they actually have with some of these guys in postseason basketball. And it's just like I watched the game like you guys did against the Nuggets.

And it seemed like their style contrast might actually force certain teams to be out of sorts. Like, I want to see OKC against a team like the Timberwolves who is going to play big and has to play big, be able to keep up with the offensive firepower on OKC. Minnesota was, they were really struggling with that. They just spread them out and attack them. And yeah, you're right. I still think they could improve those 7, 8, 9 spots, though. At least they could, maybe you do a hybrid model of both of those and add one or two kind of,

kind of lower level guys. I don't know. And they do have so many picks, too, where it's not like they have to cash in the whole hall. It could just be a couple of firsts, a couple of swaps in addition to a rotation player. And that can get you a meaningful upgrade,

you know, a more veteran player swapping in for one of these other spots. But they have so much young talent. They have so many guys who seem ready. I understand the reluctance. But yet they're going to have to spend these picks on somebody at some point. The Shay stuff is just ludicrous now.

I was looking up different advanced stats. And I mean, he doesn't have a slew of post-ups, but he has enough to at least qualify. And he was like the second best post-up player in the league on top of like all the other crazy she stats. He just gets whatever shot he wants. Everyone's on a yo-yo. And I would love to see them do stuff. I mean, I don't think they were expecting like this version. I was probably one of the few people that was really like I think this could be a 50-win team.

but nobody saw the Chet piece of this unfolding like it's unfolded. I mean, it's been wild. Not only is he one of the most efficient big men in the league, but he's completely unafraid at the end of these games. And I just would, I would have thought this would have been the year four version of him, not rookie year.

It's nuts. This is how I know this is a proper group chat episode is we end up spending half our time talking about the thunder one way or another. This is who we are here. Well, Justin, can we do a bit of, of, because Waz isn't here and I'm in Waz's spot, can we all take a swing on what Waz's reaction to this trade would have been? Oh, yes. Because he's not even awake yet. It's not even noon on the Pacific time. So he's still asleep. He doesn't know the trade happened.

He definitely would have found at least 10 to 20 minutes to take a swipe at Scotty Barnes and say like, this guy actually isn't a superstar. Why are they building around him? That would have been part of it. He also would have made the point about trading draft picks that we were talking about before because Waz, if there's anything he hates more than Scotty Barnes, is GMs that load up on draft picks. What else am I missing, Rob? I mean, there definitely would have been a huge Julius Randall's side swipe in the middle about how OG's not going to get any shots, even if he thinks he's going to get more opportunity in New York. I'm trying to think of what Waz's like personality diagnosis of OG and Ninobe would be. I feel like I should know better by now, but we might need

to go straight to the source on that one. If he's really a New York kind of guy is my ultimate question. Oh, that's a good one. answer on. I think there's a zag. I don't want to make it because I like quickly, but there is a zag for somebody with Quickly where it's like, oh, cool, you were beating up, you know, the

benches on all these different teams, putting up big stats, but what's it going to be like now that you have to play 35 minutes a game? What are your stats going to look like? We're watching this now with Jordan Poole and Washington. It's a little different near the guy when defenses are planning against you versus you just get to come in with three minutes left

in the first quarter and you get to porch, you know, backup, point guard, du jour on the other team. I categorically reject. I don't personally want to make that one. I reject the quickly pool comparison. I cannot abide it. I just say it's sitting there for somebody. I didn't personally want to do it, but it was a take exercise.

Yeah, quickly, the big thing for him is how bad he was in the playoffs and what the reasons were for that. Like, he was borderline unplayable. Yeah. So what did that mean? Is that just the spotlight got big? he went from all the Knicks Buzz, six man of the year.

Oh my God, this guy's amazing. He's the best six-man guard we've ever had, all that stuff, too. We can't play him. And it was in two weeks. Yeah.

And that would be the flip side of this trade for the Raptors if you're looking to be pessimistic about it. There are a lot of bets that Messiah is making on some of these guys to be more than they have been. Getting any sort of shooting and like supplementary,

supplementary creation next to Scotty Barnes is helpful. But like, it's going to take some actual thinking and strategizing in order to bring something else out of these guys. Toronto has also had that problem where they've tried to install this different offense this season. It's a lot more kind of whirling action, handoffs into handoffs, into screens, everyone's getting involved. And it's been a lot of possessions that go absolutely nowhere. And you put RJ Barrett in those actions. You put Emmanuel quickly, who's a very good player, but not someone who has like overwhelming burst and is going to create something.

out of nothing, you can still see a lot of those possessions going nowhere. You can still see their offense kind of idling, even though these guys are both talented, are both capable. Theoretically, your spacing is going to be a little bit better. But the Raptors still kind of are who they are. And they're going to need a big jump from someone like quickly coming in, not only getting his minutes stretched out, but being a different kind of creator a little bit. They need someone who's able to force the issue a little bit more. It would be funny if Maaside did the press conference, and was like, listen, I didn't tell you guys, but I've been gone for three years.

When we drafted Scotty Barnes, I actually went away and other people have been running the team. I came back, I was like, wow, we haven't made a trade. What happened? And then we did it. Big guys that are left in the market, if it's not Mitchell and it's not Murray, it does feel like Portland has just too many guys.

And like that Jeremy Grant, that probably would be sitting there for the Sixers would be my guess is their target. And then there's a Coosma piece. I personally don't think Coosma's looked that good this year. And then Rozier. And then maybe you could, you know, bottom feet a little bit. Like what if the sons get unhappy with Eric Gordon?

Could you rent Eric Gordon for four months and give them picks back that then they could flip for somebody else? What are the other guys you would bottom feet on? It's a little tougher now that Memphis is more respectable, too. That's a team you could see them being some rotation pieces. You could maybe pick off. Portland has them, but their

best guys are young in ways they probably want to invest in. So yeah, you can get in on the Brogden market. I mean, Rob Williams getting hurt, changes things a little bit. He could have been one of those guys hypothetically. I don't know, Justin, who are you seeing here? I mean, does this

ultimately have to be a Warriors discussion? Yes. Do they hit the eject button? I'm so ready. The material change their team. does Clay Thompson become available and not only as like an expiring contract for certain players, but does a younger team want to bring him in and say like, hey, can you just rear our young team? Like the Grizzlies, for instance, could use like a steady hand. It might be a little bit of a weird chemistry fit after they would have been barking at each other for seemingly like five years, those two teams. But like I'm waiting for the Warriors to do something.

I think they need to do something. And if they do, I think it changes the market pretty significantly. Yeah, but they don't you think they would do the Chris Paul expiring? card and commingo or wiggins versus like i just i honestly don't see them trading clay i don't think they'll do it i think they probably should but they won't that yeah it's too tough when you when you're up to four titles with with uh curry and quay draymond is the one that i'm watching because it's pretty obvious that he needs to move on to a different team and i think the fact that they've looked differently and better without him,

that doesn't mean nothing. You know, they're four and nine in the last 13 with him. There's a couple teams that I think could talk themselves into him. And just in general, now that Jackson Davis is looking like a guy who could play 25 minutes a game for them, I could see, I just feel like something's going to happen with them on that front. I still, I'm not as, to me, I'm way more worried about the Grizzlies. Because people are like, they're back. they come. Well, first of all, they shouldn't have won either of those New Orleans games. They got

killed by the Quippers last night and they can't fucking rebound. Like, I think Triple J had two rebounds last night and Zubats had like 20. So, you know, the fact that not having Adams and not having Clark for this whole season, it's fun to have job back and smarts back and their top four are fun. But ultimately, like, they, I just don't think they're big enough and have enough rebounding to conceivably go watching them against Clippers last night, they just got smoked. So they would have to go, what, 34 and 17 now to get to 44 wins?

With the size that they have, I don't see it, Rob. I think it's less by the numbers and more conceptually, they're better positioned right now than the Warriors probably are if we're being totally honest about where those two teams are headed.

And then the Suns are a team that could spiral out of control. The Rockets are a team that could regress just given the youth of their roster and who they're relying on. So it's less, about Memphis being so great. They do have some ground to make up, but it's not a ton of ground. And so I could see them making that 10th spot with an underwhelming record if some of these

other teams, the bottom falls out. But as far as other- They would have to have Houston, Phoenix, or Golden State would be the three teams, unless there's some major injury to a star. But Houston may be the most likely. Yeah. Just because their road records bad. Yeah, they seem a little flimsy, but the Phoenix thing you guys we could spend five hours on that I would I would have no answers for you who the fuck knows I'm I'm pretty concerned about them can I zag again here yes I'm kind of okay with it like this is sort of what we expected if those three guys weren't going to be able to play we talked about it all summer yeah they have injuries that da da da but when they're on the court together

it looks fine and in the interim all this stuff is just a prelude to that. And I know, like, injury could strike at any moment with these guys. Kevin Durant, certainly not a paragon of health the past couple of years. Bradley Beal just struggling to stay on the court and not just roll an ankle at this point. But like the outline of the team that we all expected to just be supercharged offensively is in there somewhere. And now maybe this is just because I saw them just completely waxed the hornets the other night. But like, I could still see it. And I don't know what would take away from it except for another injury. But this is the Sun's experience is you're saying this is what we all expected. They're still really impressive when

they're all together. And I'm saying, this is what we all expected. They're probably going to be ninth or tenth place in the Western Conference. That's, that is where they are. And that's who they're going to be so long as they're relying on not just those three guys, but Nurkich, but Eric Gordon, but a whole cast of guys with significant injury histories. Yeah, they bet on Beal, which was just nuts. It's just nuts. I just didn't understand that at all, who plays 50 games a year, Nurkich who's heard every year. And Durant, who, who's had, you know, kind of a shocking amount of injuries on his body over the years. But what they're asking for him, I really think that was one of the reasons he started

to get unhappy. It wasn't even like all the different stuff they were asking to do on both ends because they were depleted. But probably him just knowing as an athlete, like I probably shouldn't be playing like this at age 35 where I have this much of a burden on both ends. But then on top of it, I'm not really in control of the offense as much as I thought I was going to be. I could see the unhappiness thing at the same time. He, you, You chose this, Kevin Durant. This was your pick, and they had to trade all this shit for you. With Phoenix, it's interesting because I didn't think they're going to be a top three team in the West.

So I'm not surprised they're not doing well. But now it seems like they're doing so poorly. It's kind of amazing. They're 16 and 15. Like nothing went right for this team all year. And the fact that they're 16 and 15 is kind of amazing. It feels like their record should be worse. So I don't know what happens to them.

If I had to, who would you pick Justin between Houston, Phoenix? Lakers, New Orleans, those four teams to drop out of the top 10 if you had to bet on one. Because somebody's got a move for Golden State and Memphis. Yeah. Houston seems like the easy pick for me. Like they've had a pretty remarkable start to the season,

but you're already starting to see the seams kind of come on done with that team. Like, yes, Shangoon has been a revelation. He's the blog All-Star. Everybody loves them. Everyone loves the Yoko Chess kind of whiffed to him. But like, even Fred Van Vleet seems to be grinding away at certain young players. Jalen Green, for instance, hasn't really taken the leap. I think we were all expecting to.

Like, other than Shen Gune, is any young player really rising to the fore there? And I think that is the long-term issue, if you're talking about the way that they kind of supercharged and upgraded their young shitty team. It's just like, did we trade great for pretty good? And I wonder even this season if that is a high ceiling that they might not reach. I mean, I think they traded a shitty team for a much more stable one and one where you can see what the floor is now and that they're building something

and it's not just structurally around Shang but I think Javieri's been pretty good we still haven't seen like any we haven't seen anything meaningful from Amman Thompson yet so that's a big upside piece who could come into play for them over the next couple seasons.

I don't have any problem with Houston's longer term trajectory but obviously I agree for this season if you're saying who is more likely to make the play in the Houston Rockets led by Alperin Shangoon or the Lakers led by LeBron James, even though a lot of the big picture indicators

would tell you the Rockets have been a better team to date, how do you bet against players like LeBron, even if you're comparing the Rockets to Kevin Durant and Devin Booker and more established players like that, it's just a harder sell, admittedly. I have the Lakers and the Warriors to me are going to be in the play at least a plan, but they're going to be in the top 10.

The Warriors, So there's just, they have too much talent. You know, and they still have a top seven guy. And things would have to go really, really wrong. I'm with you. Probably Houston. I got to say, I wouldn't, the Dallas piece where Dallas is getting this insane Luca year and they're only 18 and 14.

I know Kyrie's missed some games, but they're so Luca dependent. It's one of those things where if he, like, strains a calf for two weeks, that that team's going to go one and eight those nine games. I don't see it with Memphis. I just don't think they have enough to get there, which brings us back to the trade part where if they don't have enough to get there, do they do guys like Conchard

and some of their role guys become a little more interesting on the old open market? Yeah, Memphis could be kind of on either side of the trade and like the trade market and spectrum, right? They could be buyers or sellers conceivably, just given everything they have to work with. The team were kind of jumping around in the standings, is another trade one to watch the Utah Jazz.

I don't really see them going anywhere. You could see a contender plucking off a Kelly Olinick, for example. You could see them plucking off. John Collins has not had a great season, but maybe someone can talk themselves into him or Colin Sexton. Poor John Collins. He's back in the trade machine. Straight back in.

Another All-Star. I was there for four years. Do you think the Nets could be a trade team? I mean, they're already basically resting guys during random regular season games. maybe some of those guys are getable for teams that are above them in the standings. Well, one thing for them is they have that Ben Simmons contract, which is

somehow still has another year left after this, but it is a giant contract that you can put into any trade and take other teams' bad contracts back if you get the player you want. Yeah, I mean, we didn't mention Bogdanovitch on Detroit. Well, you can't trade for him.

We all know that. You can't trade for them now. You know, the hardest I think I saw, and I try to watch every self at the game. I've probably seen 85% of the season. The hardest I've ever seen a team play against them in Boston was that Pistons team the other night. Like they went all.

I was actually really impressed. It was a really noble loss by them. But Bogdanovich is good. Like he's, you know, he's somebody offensively that you could go to it in the games who's crafty and can create shots. And I really wanted them to win because, as you know, I really care about this home streak and I was scared of Bogdanovitch and it's just that guy makes 20 million a year and could be a somebody on one of these playoff teams we're talking about that's probably that's really the

only one I think other than Isaiah Stewart who I think is another blog guy MVP I think everybody loves Isaiah Stewart pretty cheap contract he's got a poison pill thing but for a team like okay C that to me he's the perfect okay C guy I think they could get him unbelievable in order to trade for any of the Pistons guys, you just have to be so sure that their fit with you is better than the fit with the Pistons because there is that thing where it's like if they were this valuable, if they were this good, wouldn't the Pistons have won a single game in the last three months? So you have to kind of work around those kinds of things, logically speaking. But yeah, Bojohn's been the kind of player who could benefit a lot of teams for a long time. And honestly, to kind of close the loop on this conversation,

the kind of like a weird offensive blueprint for what you would want OG Ananobe to be, right? Like not just a guy who catches in the corner, but who can catch an attack, who can catch and move, who can catch and pass and make the next play. And we've been waiting for that stuff from OG for a long time. He's flashed some of it. It seems like the things he wants to do are not necessarily the things that are contributive to help healthy offense sometimes. But he's so talented, he's so athletic, he's so big.

Like the bones are there of someone who could be a more. interesting offensive player. If the pistons trade anyone from this team, do you think like the entire calangelo family just descends upon Detroit and just like starts filling in roles here? Like how are the pistons going to trade off and the NBA be okay with that? It's a great question. You were talking about an Inanobi. It's year seven. You kind of are who you are. Like we've all been working with Woz for a while. Waz wasn't going to be up at 10 o'clock for the for the OG and and Obie got traded call. He's just,

he's still be asleep with his notifications off. Ogen and Obie, it's year seven. You are who you are. You're going to get steals and blocks. You're going to be a really good defensive player. You're going to make open threes. But do I want,

do I want to ISO you on the right side with four minutes left and have you try to beat somebody to know? I don't. But I like them. Yeah. Like what's, what's the salary for him, Justin?

Is he, is it 120 for four? Do you go higher? than that. It's a pretty depressed free agent market and you've got a lot of teams with cap space too. That's the problem. I just think there only takes one or two guys and then all of a sudden this guy

is making his max. And I think you probably have to trade with him assuming that you're going to have to overpay to keep him. Otherwise, wink, wink it? Why do this? Yeah. I mean, I guess the Rose family might have a discussion or two over the holidays where they could maybe not talk about this or pretend

that they talked about it. So I could see it. Well, and they also have Hartenstein's a max guy, right? Like, is he, you just max them out? Is it like, what is it, 250 for five? Yeah, 120 for OG. I'm taking the over on that. I think he's going to make more.

I don't know that I'd feel good about it, but RJ just made, he's due, what, 107 or so, 108 or so over four years? I think OG's going to kind of shoot that market by a pretty wide margin. Do you guys buy in the theory that when the fans of certain teams seem to be aligned on a guy they're watching every day one way or the other that that has real stakes for you.

Because I find that I do trust that with people that I know are actually watching. And like I said earlier, all my Knicks fan friends were kind of like, uh, RJ. Like they were pretty disgruntled. And then he would have a moment where you'd have, he'd have those stretches where he'd have like a good like 10 days. And they'd be like, RJ, it's happening. and then it would kind of fade off again. I don't know a Knicks fan who's like,

oh my God, I can't believe we gave up R.J. I think you're describing how QAnon took off also. It's just like group thing is not always the best thing. The origin story of Q&N was a bunch of people on a subreddit being very angry about Dwight Powell together. And then that led to everything, you know, that led to Pizza Gate, that led to the whole real of things.

So I think we'd be very careful about this kind of radical bill. I do feel like people watch the same players day in and day out. Like Pritchard, who is somebody, I think the Celtics might actually potentially trade by February. And I like Pritchard. There's teams with length that he becomes, it just is a problem for him. When he's playing one of those teams that's just long everywhere, it's really hard for

him to get a shot off to get his stuff off in traffic. But he's also, he's such a smart offensive player for what his. skill set is like he figures out how to do it but i just there's certain teams in the playoffs that i think he's going to be a liability for them and i wonder if they see it um and you can't switch with him on defense and smarter teams target him like that golden state game was instructive where they kept wharford out there and it was like minutes 31 through 40 really they should have brought in pritchard and gone a little smaller and just tried to switch but they couldn't do it with pritchard so that's something like i just feel that way because i've watched

all of Pritchard's career, and I don't know if that shows up in the stats, but I also might have seen too much of them. The flip side of this is when you're watching the same guys over and over again, you start picking things apart and kind of going glass-half empty. Yeah, that's where the intimacy, obviously, of watching someone repeatedly and seeing the whole arc of their career, you see them against different kinds of matchups, you see them in different roles, that stuff is all really helpful. I think with fan bases where it gets tricky is when you're talking about just the players and how did they play in this game, the seventh and eighth guys on those teams just get roasted for their weaknesses.

And then when it comes time for us to make up some fake trades and we're trying to put the seventh or eighth the best player and it deals like we couldn't possibly part with that guy. He's too essential to the infrastructure of our team. So it's almost like the context of how they're talking about them is as important as how they actually feel about them. So Justin, who won the 2019 draft them? Because RJ just got traded. Jogis is coming off a 25 game suspension.

And Zion has created the first ever basketball reference page where your stats get worse every year all over the place. And he's getting like off-centered giant crosses tattooed to his body. I don't know if you guys saw that. It's a tough one. Where like, man, that guy should not be taking shirtless photos right now because all I saw was like how much extra holiday stuff. He probably got. Relax. Again, relax.

But I mean, like, Jha is definitively the best player or the most productive. player out of all of these. And I still take, even though he has some interesting choices with his career and his lifestyle, I still think you take the bet on jaw that he could figure that out rather than Zion who needs to be motivated. And RJ, let's just be frank, he's just okay. He's pretty good. He's never going to be great. Yeah, he's a distant number three. Not exactly a hitter's team behind those guys, though. You know, your DeAndre hunters, you know, your Jarrett Culvers, your Jackson Hayes. Garland. Garland's good. And hey, Kobe White. La Flama Blanca, as we know him, Justin, off to a hell of a start this season or really a hell of a resurgence this season.

So there's some players to like and more on the role player end of the spectrum, some guys to like. But at the top, it's tough when even the best most talented prospects, the guys who are supposed to be not just franchise changers, but league changers have had such huge questions around them. And that RJ is just kind of shuffling around in relative anonymity in the biggest market in the world. And now back on home turf, a native son returned to Canada, return to Toronto, or a hundred You know, I love it. Would you rather have Kobe White or RJ Barrett? I think I'd rather have Kobe White. I think so too now.

Yeah. What is our level of confidence that Kobe White is in fact to Damian Lillard? Because it sure seems like it. So you would, if you redrafted this, jaw first, Garland. Where would you take Zion? On their redrafts. Oh my gosh. Garland.

Garland has to be ahead of Zion at this point, right? Like if the Pelicans called the calves and said, give you, we'll give you Zion for Garland right now. No questions asked. I don't think the calves do it. What do we think Garland's ceiling is, though? I think he's higher than what we've seen. Yeah. I just think he's going to be such a liability in the playoffs that like, he's the classic example of the type of guy who might be successful and then we'll surge you to the second round, then all of a sudden he's getting picked on. Justin, we're not inviting you to the let Daris Garland cook barbecue that we're having in mid-January. I know, Rob,

Rob, you'll be there. You'll bring some barbecue sauce. I'm always in for a Darius Garland barbecue of any kind. But I can't pretend I don't have concerns. I can't pretend that these New York Knicks didn't put those concerns in my head of just like him feeling so small against those kinds of matchups in the playoffs. And that's fair. So would you take Garland or Zion?

I would take Zion. I would too. Too much upside. I think I take Garland. Upside. Man, Grant Williams was a top 10 guy from that. All right, we digress. Did we hit everything?

I think we hit more than everything. Great. This was fun. Good emergency podcast. Yep. Thank you to Ben Cruz on production. We'll be back on Wednesday. Thank you, Bill, for joining us.

Great to see you, guys. Happy New Year. All right. We'll be back. See you then.