The Ringer NBA Show - Is Age Just a Number? | The Answer

Episode Date: November 20, 2021

Chris and Seerat discuss how the best teams in the league are getting a lot of help from older veterans and how the prime of NBA players appears to be older than what it used to be. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Seerat Sohi Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's Chris Ryan and Sirius Sohi, as always. and we are here to talk to you a little bit about heat culture this week. Broadly speaking, we're talking about the contributions that veterans are making to some of the best teams in the NBA. Sir, what's going on? How are you doing? Chris, I'm wonderful. I'm excited to, you know, rub it in. So, Cyran and I were looking at, like, the trends of the week and seeing, like, which teams were doing well. And we noticed that the Heat Warriors and Sons were pretty much the three best teams in the league this week. As we go to record this pod right now on Friday, it seems like,

Those teams will be at the top of their respective conferences, and we noticed that those teams were being led largely by veteran presences, by veteran corps, veteran leaders. And we wanted to talk a little bit about, you know, because for the first few weeks of the season, everybody was just having, like, basically a brain lock, and the only two words that could come out of their mouths were Evan Mobley. And now Evan Mobley injured his elbows,

so he's shuffled off to the side. And while we're getting used to Kate Cunningham and freaking out about all the young players, it does seem like the league is being led by veterans this season, with the exception of the Lakers. We'll get to them too. Before we get into this topic for the week, though, Sarah, and I had a question for you. My favorite story of the week is by far Staple Center being renamed.

So there is a $700 million naming deal in place for the Staple Center to be renamed. The Crypto.com Arena, I believe, is the official title. I wanted to find out how you felt about all this as probably somebody who has a lot of NFTs is in a lot of Ethereum and also how you felt about the new nickname for the Staples Center, aka the crypto.com arena,

which is the crypt, which rules. So I wanted to ask you, are we doing enough with corporate branded naming rights on arenas? Should we be a little bit more creative with our nicknames for these buildings. I really feel like this is a decision made of the moment.

And, you know, I can't predict what's going to happen in the future. So I feel like it's really either going to go one or two ways. Like, it could kind of, it could be perfect, you know, or it could just be like this strange piece of trivia where, you know, people ask like, hey, so why is it, why is it called the crypto.com arena? Like, what even is crypto? I don't really understand this. So, you know, it's actually, it's kind of a lot like cryptocurrency in that way.

It's either going to be completely dominant or a footnote to economic history. Right. Yeah, exactly. I did pick up some Ethereum like a few years ago. Right now, that looks like a good call. But we'll see. Are you still holding? That's great.

I mean, you're a patient investor. Everybody knows this about you. Yeah, yeah. No, for sure, for sure. I've always been known for my patience. I love that it's So it was kind of interesting to watch Lakers fans

especially like some of the Lakers fans that are at the Ringer which are like quite a few process all of this Right And I think Because Staples Center has so much romance to it You know?

Exactly. Well it is it is one of those arenas Where you know When they when they did this I kind of forgot that Staples was a brand You know like when you go to the Staples You don't really think about Staples Like it's become like

I'm actually more likely to think about the Staples Center when I go to Staples than the other way around. You kind of forget sometimes that these are all just named after brands. But it was funny to watch everyone go through it. I really like the Crip nickname a lot. It's actually a good nickname.

It's also kind of wonderful for this particular moment because the Lickers the oldest team in the NBA. Yeah. And, you know, like, I feel like I gave somebody else the joke to make because it's kind of a little too obvious this one. Speaking of veteran leadership, you know,

I'm old enough to remember when, you know, the Sixers played at a place called the Spectrum. And that was like, at the time when I was a kid, I didn't really think much of the name. But now that name holds like

a lot of like nostalgic and romantic power for me. Partially because... That's a good name for an arena. Well, it is a good name for arena when you compare it to the fact that also the Sixers Arena

changed names three times because of bank mergers in the course of like 18 months where it went like core states, Wachovia, and now Wells Fargo. So it's just like, I don't like, the spectrum is practically like, La Bambanera compared to like the multiple bank names we had.

I personally come from the school of thought that all basketball arenas or hockey arenas or stadiums for that matter should be called either like county stadium, war memorial. Like I love like the old school, 1950s, like, name it after a dead politician, name it after something like kind of general, like war memorial, or just name it literally like city or county arena. I think those are cool. The branding stuff is fine. I understand everybody's got to pay bills. But when you look through

the list of current NBA arenas, and I'm not going to read all of them, but there's just like a lot American Airlines, Amway, AT&T, Barclays, Golden One Center, Little Caesar's arena. Of course, the the people's champ, the smoothie king. I just want to encourage all local fan bases to just get really creative when it comes to nicknaming your arena. Like if it's named the AT&T Center, call it the phone booth, you know?

You know what? I really like that. I really like that. I think it just would add a better... It would sound cooler in history, you know? Like, imagine if they named the Coliseum after, you know, some sort of like really, really popularly traded... I don't know.

What do they trade back then? Oil, oil, metal, and shit. Back in Rome. I'm not sure what the currency was in Rome, honestly. But, like, yeah, if they called it, like, sandals, you know what I mean? Like, whatever it was that they were doing. Yeah.

But if, like, there was a sandal brand that got the naming rights of the Coliseum, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, just, like, the best producers of Toga stuff, you know? Yeah. Just, you know, some sort of, like, cotton supplier. I don't know. I just don't think that would be as fun. I like that it's called the Coliseum.

Does the Raptors, is it the Rogers Center? Is that what the Raptors, where the Raptors play? It is now the Scotia Bank Arena. It was the Air Canada Center. And I remember there being like a brief sort of rebellion in my apartment about the name change. Okay. Well, ACC sounded really good. That's good.

That's true. And I think if you let it happen, calling it the Scosh is pretty good. Oh, sure. Yeah. I just, you know, an arena named after a bank is just never going to be. be that fun. But you could. What if they just called it the bank, though? Yeah, I like, I like the bank. I like calling

it the vault. I like calling it the safety deposit box. I like calling it the ATM. Like I think you could get... Yeah, right. I think you could, you just have to riff a little bit. That's what we're doing. So, sir, this week in the NBA, you know, the answer comes on Friday.

So generally speaking, we have like a little bit of a rearview mirror look at the way things broke this week. Obviously the biggest game of the week was the state win of the Warriors in Brooklyn over the nets. You wouldn't know it was in Brooklyn by watching the game because it sounded like 80% of people at the game got off Bart just like five minutes before the tip off. It was a very pro-Stef crowd.

I don't know how KD and Hardin felt about that, but that was like the obviously like the sort of signature matchup of the week. Quiet as kept the sons are right behind the Warriors at the top of the Western Conference. they've won 10 in a row. And while most of those wins are over, I would say, lesser than opponents, you know, teams like the Rockets and the Kings, and they've been kind of like beating the teams they need to beat. They're doing that in the face of the NBA's Sarver investigation and all the fallout that came after Baxter Holmes' piece about the institutional problems that the sons are facing. And then in the Eastern Conference, despite the fact that we've been so enamored with at various points,

the Knicks, Cavs, and Wizards over the course of the season so far, the heat just kind of peeled off four wins. two of which without Jimmy Butler. And then when Jimmy Butler came back, he scored 30 or more in two consecutive games, including a victory over the Wizards, on Thursday night, and are now at the top of the Eastern Conference and look at like what the team that was promised

when they landed PJ Tucker and Kyle Lowry. So we look at all this. You and I were talking before we recorded, and you were just like, what's going on with like these veterans, these older guys really like, really like locking into forms. so early in the season. Generally

speaking, when you look at this trend, where does your mind go? Where are you thinking about this? Generally speaking, I think, like, the thing, whenever you notice something new, I think it's a good idea to kind of like take a step back and say, okay, like, why is this happening?

And I think there's a lot of things that have coalesced. Like, I think in general, the prime of an NBA player is, I think, later than it used to be. There's like, there's kind of like a way that it's put where like when your athletic abilities peak at the same time, it's like you've gotten enough reps that you understand the game. That's kind of when your prime is. And I feel like that kind of used

to be like like 25, 26 for a lot of players. And I feel like it's at least gone up to like, I think the last time somebody checked it was like probably around 28. And now it feels like it might even be around 30, at least for some of the guys that we're talking about. Because the game is, never actually required more reads. I think we talked about this. Like anybody who watches the modern NBA, I won't drone on about it. You have to be really, really smart.

And like there's more play calls than ever. There's like, I don't want you to drone on about it. Can you just for like our listeners, like when you say reads, are you like just just give like a sort of dictionary definition or your dictionary definition of what you mean by that? Decisions, I guess, right?

Like I think there are a lot of different things. that any player can do, even like in a, in like one specific play set, right? Like just based on what the, what the defense is giving you, like, are you going to set the screen? Are you going to flip the screen? Are you going to slip it? And then after you slip it, are you going to try to get to the rim? Are you going to dump it off to the five man? Or are you going to try to kick it out to the three? And that's sort of, and that's just for a role player, you know? Um, for, for, for like the lead ball handler, I feel like there's just so many decisions within, you know, like, I feel like there's, I show, I show,

you like one branch, right? And that's the guy that's at the head of the tree. Yeah. So there's a lot. And I think that like there's no way to process all of that information, even if you're really good at it. And you've seen some guys that are really young and really good at it, like Trey Young and Luca. There's no way to process information though at the highest level without having read everything. So usually like these types of players, like these types of things happening in the playoffs is, is not that surprising, right? Like the game slows down. You know, like once you start to get to scout, these things become more important. But we're seeing it already earlier in this season.

I think some of that is just based on these teams, right? Like they're just, they're off to a good start. Everybody's healthy. But I also think like the average NBA game, even like not just in the playoffs, is just required a lot more intelligence. And the other thing is just like, I think that you can,

being stronger, being strong in general has never been more important, I think. So just do you mean like in terms of just like physical, like adding muscle, like having like strong core, all that stuff. Yeah, at a scoring position. Obviously, it's not the same league that used to be in terms of like, you know, rebounding and defense and, you know,

just smash mouth, whatever, 90s shit. Right. But, like, I think for perimeter players, strength has never been more important. And you can stay stronger and actually, like, accumulate more strength as you get older. Yeah, so, I mean, I think that typically,

if you just say, like, give me an example of a strong player at a person on this, they'd be like, I guess, like Dwight Howard or something like that. You know, like somebody would just like, Janus would be like the strongest player I've ever seen. But it can mean harden. You know what you mean? Like in especially like pre-hamstring hardened. It's the it's the lulling people to sleep and blowing by them.

It's the using his backside to create space. It's having like the strength in his offhand to give himself a little bit of room when he's driving or when he's turning a corner and stuff like that. You see it with Chris Paul, who's not somebody I would. would think of as like a diesel basketball player, but is incredibly strong when he needs to be. And, you know, I know that we're going to talk a little bit more in depth by some of the,

he's still practicing the dark arts, despite the fact that people are legislating against it in the, in the, in the, in the, in the reffing. But yeah, I mean, this idea that basically,

like, we used to think that once a person basically had three, four seasons in the league, they started to enter their prime. And that prime lasted for four seasons. And then when they hit 30 with very few exceptions, exceptions, there was going to be this athletic decline. We have to adjust for the same way that we adjust for the idea that Evan

Mobley and Cade Cunningham and Jailing Green can immediately become contributors, if not All-Star, you know, maybe not Cade, but all-star prospects, you know, but in their first year in the league. You have to allow for the fact that DeMarda Rosen just looks awesome at 32 on his third team and that that's a reality now. Yeah, yeah, so DeMarre and Chris are both interesting because of their contracts. I think, so actually a lot of these guys are interesting because of their contract. So when Chris signed his first deal with Houston, the extension, there was, you know, there was a lot of, I guess, you know, there's foreboding about it, actually.

And there was an idea of like, oh man, like, you know what, like the, the Rockets, in order to get Chris Paul in order to get him from that, sign and trade from the clippers. They needed to sign him to that deal, but man, like, that's, the back end of that is going to be ugly, right? Right. Right. In the last two years of that deal, he went to Oklahoma, was great there, went to the Sons, went to the finals, and then actually got extended this summer to a four-year,

$120 million deal. So, you know, everything that we were saying, and I'm not, like, trying to single anybody out. I think we were all kind of, like, talking about that. He has, I wouldn't. say he's necessary, like, what would you say about Chris Paul right now in terms of like where he was compared to four years ago? Well, that's a great question. I mean, four years ago, I think he was, I mean, that was still Rockets, right? So that would be the era when I felt like

he had kind of allowed himself to be subsumed by a basketball aesthetic and culture that probably wasn't necessarily his natural one in order to try and win a championship. So I don't necessarily know if I ever felt like he fully fit in to Dan Tony ball and playing off of Hardin. They were obviously a conference finalist, so like it's not like I know anything, but I just feel like when you watch Chris Paul both on the Thunder and on the Sons, you just realize that when you have somebody with that level of acumen and like you said, like if that's your decision maker, if that's the person with the ball in their hands, like you're going to, you're going to, your floor is going to be pretty high, you know, almost regardless. And you can see what he's done

for players that he played with in Oklahoma, but also players that he's not playing with in Phoenix. He's probably made like three guys' careers since he arrived in Phoenix's. You know what I mean? Like, Booker was going to be fine, but Aiton and Bridges specifically, like, are going to be, like,

significant NBA players for the next 10 to 12 years because of what Chris Paul is, like, done for that team. Yeah, that's a really good point about him kind of going back to, like, doing what his bread and butter is. He's been, like, one of the... I think he's run more pick and rolls in pretty much...

actually literally anybody in the NBA at this point. That's probably, that probably has a lot to do with, uh, with why he's so good at this age because like of all the plays that have, have like sustained themselves since he's been in the league since 2000, 2005, right? Um, he,

like that, the pick and roll is like, it was already there and it's gotten just more and more important and become like use and become like the primary play in the NBA. And it was always his bread and butter. Like he was a guy that was that was getting lobs, blobs for everybody, like making guys career. Like when Aiton came to, or no, when Chris came to the sons,

Aiton, like, in the training camp press conference was like, yeah, like my eyes lit up, you know, like, I've seen what that guy has done for others. Yeah. And so, you know, him being able to kind of just, like, use the same moves throughout his career, I think it's, like, just really, really helped him. And he's one of those guys that's, like, exceptionally strong, like, way stronger than it, than his age. and like he had this man,

he had this play against Anthony Edwards earlier this week where he faked a through the leg pass and then just went for a layup and Anthony Edwards fell for the pass and started to get to a three point line to recover and Chris Ball just hit a layup and like that's something that, you know,

like no matter how athletic Anthony Edwards is is if you were going to trick him to that extent, he's not going to be able to recover. And I feel like we're kind of seeing the same thing with like we kind of saw it with Steph versus Trey a couple weeks ago. There's like, I feel like there's like this changing of the guard that like wants to happen, you know, like the younger guys are pushing for it.

But like the only guy that's really that's really broken in is, is Janus. And honestly, like this is still very much a league that's like ruled by. It's kind of like the world actually. Like the boomers won't stop going to work. And in this case, it kind of like not everybody keeps getting better, but like the more that they, the more experience they accumulate, the more they can stay off all their time. Yeah. I mean, there's, you have to look at each team is different and each team is formatting their minutes and their play style around like the talents of teams, the players that they have.

Some players have way more sway over that idea than others. I mean, this has been a weird Lakers season. We'll talk about them because, you know, you were seeing the like the ghost of LeBron looms large at the crypto center. You know, like, we don't really know what this team is because he's missed the majority of the season. So we've just been watching, like, Russ and Anthony Davis not know how to, like, basically play with one another. But for the most part, when you go through these teams, especially the three that we've

highlighted, I think the thing that just jumps out at me the most is continuity. Obviously, the sun's essentially running back a finals team. The heat, heat culture jokes aside, like, there's a core there. that I think Jimmy is the avatar of with Haslam and a couple of other guys and Bam and Hero and Robinson have played together for a couple of seasons and you add Lowry to that

and Lowry obviously was like more than ready to just slip right into like how they play and how they work there. PJ Tucker too. And then when you watch the Warriors, which is like the best thing in sports to watch right now, I think, watching what they did to the nets

was like as much of like a preparedness issue with like the warriors were clearly like they seized on the magnitude of the opportunity to beat the nets in their own gym and they also just looked like a bunch of guys who understood how to play with one another whereas the nets seemed like

five dudes who happened to be on the same court and hoping Kevin Durant just got them over the mountain yeah I mean did they seize on it as much as they were just like like in every facet of the game in the second half just so much better Yeah, but I thought that that was like, they looked like werewolves in the second half. You know what I mean? And I think Marcus Thompson and Bill talked about this on Bill's pod, but it was just like, that was a real like paying off all accounts.

Like, like, it was very obvious that the warriors wanted to embarrass the nets on their floor. And they didn't. That felt like peak warriors. That was a third quarter outburst that felt like peak warriors. And they were basically playing like the globetrotters on Adderall at certain points. Like Steph driving to the lane. behind the back no look kick out then now back to a cutter it's just like this like princeton offense on like speed it was just wild to watch them do it to brooklyn yeah yeah these guys have all known

each other for so long now too right and they've they've mastered almost every possible situation that they could be in even though they have so many new guys um like i feel like last year for some of those guys was kind of like the initiation period and now they've come in. For Poole and Anderson? Yeah, for sure. Exactly. Exactly. Like Poole has kind of copied the roots that Clay Thompson used to run. Even copies like a lot of what Steph does just in terms of like, you know, he doesn't, he's not the same guy in terms of moving off the ball. But he does try to get open in similar ways and he does try to pick things up off of Steph, which is really smart. And then like you have Iguidala and Dremont. who are like both these like these tree stumps that you just like you can't get out ahead of. And they're both incredible passers. And they both, um, they both process things defensively.

I think most of the guys that we're going to talk about actually do. They probably like processing on the defensive side is really important. But they both, they both do that at a level. Um, that is just like, you know, defensive player of the year level in terms of just like the amounts of information that

they have about every single player. in the league at this point. Like every single All-Star, they've both had really, really solid looks at everybody except for the new guys, essentially, right? Yeah.

And they can then pass that on to, like, you know, a new generation of tree stumps. At one point, you know, it kind of looked like, oh man, like the Warriors kind of maybe drafted too much

of the same type of player. But it's really working out for them. And they're kind of, I mean, like, they kind of are like the, they're like the team version of the, I guess,

the characteristics that have allowed this to happen, you know, like, just in terms of, like, how smart they are. Also, like, just, like, you know, the shooting, the skill work and everything. Like, there's never been more opportunity to get better at different things. And I think, like, Warriors encourage it. The heat encourage it. Yeah. The sun's in this specific iteration with the players they have.

Probably encourage it. Maybe not all the time. But, yeah, they're great. And they're like, they're just like, they're a great example of aging well, I guess. Because like they look better than everyone. And it is because it's because of the experience. So the experience part is the one I wanted to ask you about. Because with the amount of turnover we have in rosters now in the NBA,

it's relatively rare that a player goes through the kind of valley that Steph and Dremont went through over the last two seasons, I guess. and then and they comes back out on the other side and looks like the best basketball team in the world. And I just think because typically what happens is if it's like, oh, well, we're bad now, so we should rebuild. Or we're bad now, so one of our best players is going to ask to leave.

Ultimately, what the Warriors did was they may have lost some opportunity. They may have basically missed out on Steph rings for the last couple of seasons since KD left. But they have now come back on the other side and I wonder whether or not, I don't know whether it's like something as corny as they appreciate it more

or they just know how to dig themselves out of what seemed like an impossible hold to get out of. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean, I think it can definitely give you a little bit more confidence to your last point. I'm sure there's something to appreciating it more. just because of what the Warriors were, you know?

I think that we appreciate it more. How can they not? You know, I think us being able to, like, go into this place that reminds us of five years ago and the best basketball we've ever watched and the good vibes and the fun and, like, the problem solving. And just, like, it was this moment, like, for that team where you didn't really feel like anything could beat them because even if there was something that they were up against,

you kind of always figured that they had the tools and, like, the know-how within them to come up with a solution. That was like part of the thing, aside from Steph, that's so exciting about watching them. It's that, like, they do, like, you know, they come out and, like, they figure out the death lineup. And now it's like, oh, we're going to have Gary Payton just be like this 6-3 interior player. And I think just being part of that environment, you know, you would appreciate it. I just, I don't know.

You know, like, I think, especially towards the end, it felt like they started to take it for granted a little bit too and there were like maybe some you know some bad vibes going on it seems like they're having fun and yeah i mean i don't know if i'm if just like in our rooms if we're enjoying it this much like being and de guadal and taking like you know your 18th month sabbatical from the bay area and coming back and getting to be not only is he as good as he was before he almost feels like he's a little bit sharper like he's kind of the classic guy where like you wouldn't even pay attention to him in november like why would you even bother with that That's what we were being told.

It's like, oh, don't even, like, he'll barely play. He's like, I mean, we was basically made it sound like he was going to be like a glorified, no disrespect, but kind of like a glorified Haslam. You know, it's like where it's like in breaking case of emergency, but is essentially a culture guy. When he was in Miami, he was a little bit worse than he was with the warriors. And, you know, I think you could see it in the bubble. Like he just wasn't as up to par defensively. Like, you know, LeBron, who he's always kind of been able to.

do a better job of stopping than anybody else was like getting the upper hand on him a lot more. Like those swats were more likely to be fouls. In the in the times that he was playing even. And yeah, it looked like it, but man, it's just really shocking. And it's really incredible because like watching, watching Iguidola this season because like he has one of the best net ratings on the team. It's either him or Gary Payton.

It kind of goes up and down. And he's leading a second unit. He's playing with the starters. He isn't averaging like he's averaging. he's averaging more assists than points, and the points that he's averaging are three, so it's not like, you know, he's like, but anybody who's been watching the Warriors,

like they can tell how important he is to them, right? Like, he's not necessarily going to get all the stats in the world, but, like, you know, defensively, he's still an anchor. He's still incredibly strong. And, you know, there's, like the mentorship stuff, but there's also just, like, he knows this system. And he's always been the guy, right? Like, he's always been the guy that's, like, tried to figure out what's, you know, like, let's look at this engine.

Let's, like, let's see what's loose. Let's see what's leaky. And let's make sure that we fix it up. Like, they didn't really have that presence last year. And they have him back, and he's just, he just knows the ins and outs of it. And that's also part of it, you know, like, obviously, like, when we talk about older plays being valuable, if we take it to off the court, we can just start talking about a whole bunch of different things. but even the way that the off-court and on-court translate, just in terms of being able to talk to somebody like Jordan Poole,

if Jordan Poole is, like, sick of hearing it from Draymond, having, like, you know, Andrego Dahl are around or just, like, having him to help out with, like, here's where Gary Payton should be in, like, you know, in this particular scheme or, like, here's what we're doing. Like, he just knows all the plays on offense and defense. Yeah, I can't imagine what kind of benefit that is for everybody from, like, Wiggins on down.

You know what I mean? And Wiggins, especially, this season seems to just have a completely different, like, approach to the game when it comes to his aggressiveness. And maybe not on a completely every night basis, but definitely, like, most more nights than not. I think Iqa O'Irida going back to the Warriors really changed my idea of, like, how serious this team was going to be. You know, like, I think that I would all probably would have been welcome in every single gym, every single locker room in the league. you know, and he had his choice probably of, of like, hey, come here for whatever the veteran minimum is and like just be the guy like on the Lakers or on the clippers or on, you know, whoever, on the Mavs, on the, he could have gone anywhere and he went back to the bay.

And I think that I didn't really understand how enormous he would, an impact you would have. Yeah, I mean, I thought it was cute. Yeah. But when you think about it and you think about what was the sort of narrative around the Warriors last And it was this idea that Kerr needed to like basically, not dumb down, but like go back to a more basic offense because he didn't have the components to run the offense that he wanted to run. That it should just basically be like Wiseman Curry P&R and like they should spread it and try and like beat teams in a straight up, like more of a straight up way rather than this beautiful

basketball stuff, which if you watch the Nets game, you know what it looks like. And it's kind of cool to see I get with Dala back because they kind of, I feel like now we're not having that conversation. because the Warriors look like the Warriors, the ball's flying around, and all of the players seem to understand exactly what they're supposed to be doing. What's another player you want to talk about here?

Because we can talk about like a Kevin Durant, who's like, I guess the example of the player that I'm talking about that feels like a little bit more like a wanderer rather than the players who are providing a lot of continuity for their teams. I don't really know how to read this Brooklyn team right now, though. Yeah, I think continuity is such a great point with them, because even that Warriors game, there were times where

you know like I think they were running there was one play in the third quarter and it was early in the third quarter like when the game was still it wasn't in hand yet for the Warriors and Curry was cheating on him I think they might have been in his own

and he was like at the top of the key and he was switched onto him and KD was running off his screen and Steph was basically just waiting for him. And he could have easily just backdoor cut to the rim. There was, like, no space. But, like, I think it's just not something that happens on every team

because not every team has, like, the playmaking or understanding each other. That was just one of the ones that I noticed. But honestly, man, like, they're just, like, one thing with his Nets team this season is that they're just not really good at finding Durant open and good shots. Like, he was attacking that triangle and, too, trying to get, like, mid-range jumpers. And it's like, just move the ball around the floor. That's literally all you have to do. What do you chalk that up to?

Do you think it's like the less threatening version of Hardin? Do you think it's like the absence of Harris? Do you think it's that they're really, really, really, really talent deficient without Kyrie? I think it's a little bit of everything. I mean, like, they don't, for offense, it's just like they just weren't playing great defense. The switching scheme's not working. You can't. You can't switch with those guys.

These guys aren't athletic enough. No, they're just not. you know, like, it's just, it's not, it's not a fair position to put Patty Mills in. For a whole season, it's not really a fair position to put Blake Griffin, and it's definitely not a good position to put him in against, like, against Steph Curry. Yeah, Aldridge can't switch on guys. Like, it's just, yeah. Aldridge, like, Aldridge is not going to play on the playoffs.

Like, that was one where it was, like, that is actually one example of a guy who's not, who's not exactly aging all that well. Yeah, there's a ton of stuff happening happening in Brooklyn. I do think that there's a version because actually of what we're talking about of because of how out of sync that they are. I think that this team is just going to look different in March. Like they're just going to know each other a little bit better. But one thing that's, one thing that actually really sticks out about them this year is that

like they just don't seem as smart as they were last year. And I think part of that is actually just Hardin is not like where he normally is. And that like just goes down the line. Like that impacts like the quality of shot or like the angle that, you know, Bruce Brown or somebody gets in order to either get like a floater or layup or like hit. hit somebody else. And like, they have too many non-shooters.

Yeah, I don't know. I think, like, they can figure it out. They've got some guys off, off the bench and that will maybe be like better, better role players from later. But yeah, not great.

They're like, yeah, there are some teams, came into this season. The Bulls, the Warriors, the heat, the suns,

obviously, after a couple of hiccups early on. And it seemed like they were just, like, they were just really primed to get right after the regular season. And the Nets just feel like one of those teams

that's like still in this sort of extended camp kind of thing. Like they're still sort of figuring stuff out. I will say that one of the things I noted about Harden in that Warriors game was, you know, the call, like the fouls like and the referee change, the rule changes have been discussed like ad nauseum. But I will say he really does like when he doesn't get a call, it takes him like two plays to get over it, it seems like. And I think that that's the case for certain plays.

players that are just kind of like, I can't believe, like, I'm not getting certain things here. But, like, even stuff that was just like, he had a play against, he was being defended by Steph and Steph dislodged the ball. I think this was in, like, the second quarter of that game. And I felt like Hardin was just, like, out of it for almost like three possessions because he was still so pissed off about not getting a call. Like, and I do, I do feel like that kind of stuff is the kind of thing that won't probably happen in the playoffs for, you know, he'll, like, he'll have to get out of his head by then.

Yeah, you would think so. I mean, it's, it's only November right now. A lot of it's with him just seems like health. Yeah. At the same time, though, as I was watching them, like, I don't, so I sent you the, I sent you the Stephen A. Smith. Oh, my God. Like, the seven minute video essay that he basically did. Um, yeah, it was, it was incredible. Uh, he, Stephen A was like in rare form after the Warriors Nets game. He did like this whole rant. about how Katie never should have left the Warriors. He's been abandoned by Kyrie. Oh my God, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Katie needs to acknowledge that he's been abandoned by Kyrie. Yes, yeah.

Talks about how they were going to go to the Knicks. And then, you know, Kyrie stepped in. He was like, well, hey, what if we go to the Nets? And then, you know, like all of that stuff. I would go just watch it. It's honestly just like some of the best. Somebody who, like, I don't love, you know, sports television. But just as like an art form.

It was just like watching like a man master the moment and just like be at the top of his game right when he needed it. Like just for anybody who appreciates like sports, I think you'll just appreciate that aspect of it. It's great. Regardless, like the ability to kind of command the microphone for extended periods of time is pretty astonishing. Should we talk about the heat? Much to my chagrin. Let's do it. Let's do it.

Just jump. Let's jump in. So they won, they've won their last four. Jimmy missed two of those with, I guess, that was that ankle. And they've just been trucking. I mean, bam, aside from whatever numbers he's putting up, looks just incredible right now. Like, I just, I love watching him on a nightly basis and just watching the, like, the way he commands the court on both sides of the ball. But what are you seeing from the heat and what are you seeing specifically from Butler? I mean, Jimmy is, Jimmy's having an MVP.

season again. He's another guy that there was a lot of talk about the original contract, which has now been extended to an even longer contract for even more money. He is employed up until

the end of the 2026 season and he's 32 years old right now. I'm curious to see how that holds up longer term with him just because of the amount of minutes that he played early on in Chicago and just the type of, I mean, Jimmy Jimmy Butler and Kyle Lowry too.

One of the scariest things about watching Kyle Lowry when he was with the raptors was just like the amount of of, you know, just hitting the floor there was, right? Like diving after every loose ball just like playing in a style that I guess like some people would call reckless. But just, you know, hustling, taking charges and doing a lot of stuff that is generally harder on the body than like, you know, just deciding to go out there and score and play like reasonable defense. These guys both just really push it to the limit in a very heat culture way, obviously. Jimmy, in the age of the rule changes, still getting nine free throw attempts a game. Well, he's never needed the rule changes. Yeah. He's never really been like a jump into a guy type of guy.

No, because he's still going to the road. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he'll actually take like, I mean, you got to give like the other guys. Like Trey Young should get a lot of credit for this too based on how small he is. but Jimmy will like

he'll let like a seven footer fall into him you know he's like he just doesn't care he doesn't have like that inhibition that most human beings would have in those moments and I think that's like essentially what it takes to be like a really physical and defensive player in the NBA

because like you just can't think about like oh this guy is gonna barrel into me and actually I have to get in front of that like that just like the it's not it's not like most human instinct I guess but both both those guys actually like had

had contract situations where like the last, the contract before the one that they got right now you were thinking because of all those things, right? Like because of the minutes

and the warrant's hair, like, oh, can we actually sign this guy, right? Kyle Lowry also recently just got extended, 35 years old and doing the same stuff. And they added PJ Tucker who is, I think now 36, right? He's 36 years old.

Yeah, I think most people watched him against in Milwaukee and we're like emotionally he brings a whole other quality and his fire on defense is amazing but like I wouldn't necessarily call him a Durant stopper you know I mean Durant looked pretty good against him like he did what he pretty much wanted it was just the tj competed a lot so coming off of Milwaukee i don't think people were like that guy is is like a top i don't know i wouldn't necessarily be like PJ Tucker is an essential part of like a championship winning team. I just thought he brought a lot to them in terms of like emotional makeup. Yeah, I mean, I would call him more of like maybe a Durant slower.

Sure. Yeah. A Durant fatiguer, perhaps. There's no, there's no real Durant stopper. A Durant irritant, you know, like, he was good at that. Yeah, he's just kind of like, you know, when, just, I don't know, anyway. He's, yeah, he's kind of like, a lot of. lower level of like what Iguodala does on defense where he's just you know he's seen all the top players and actually like when you think about it like maybe part of the reason that some of like these guys that are in the league because of their defense more than their offense are actually benefiting from the fact that the superstars have also not really declined that much as well because then they get to guard the same guys over and over again like if LeBron we're So, I mean, the Lakers have like 40 million questions before we even get to this question.

But let's say we get like, O' Lakers, Warriors, Western Conference finals, how many times has Iguodala then guarded LeBron already, right? Or, you know, if you take it to the other end, like P.J. Tucker is still in the Eastern Conference. There's an argument to be made that he'll be a year older. But there's also an argument to be made that so will Kevin Durant and now PJ Tucker has seven games of tape to watch on him, right? Like there's a progressive improvement that you can just make based on the fact that, like, you've seen this exact situation before. Not just a similar situation with like maybe, you know, faster players or something. You have, well, not to, you know, to add first step is probably better than anybody else. But just being able to see that situation over and over again has to just has to help these guys.

Let's talk a little bit about the Lakers and the counter narrative to our argument that being in your 30s is good and that, you know, like what you need is content. and wisdom to win this league. And then you get the Lakers who went all in on continuity and wisdom. Well, not continuity because they redid their entire rest roster. Or wisdom, really. Yeah. But, you know, I think tried to fill out their roster with shooters to surround LeBron, like shooters to the, probably to the expense of playmakers.

So, you know, they lose guys like Caruso, bringing in guys like Carmelo. who can get their shot, but I don't know if they are, like, really conducive to, like, team offense. You know, there's a lot of things going wrong over there. To me, my biggest observation is just, like, I would just like to think that at this point, Anthony Davis could win, could, like, beat the Timberwolves,

you know, like, with some, with a decent team around him, with, like, a replacement level team around him. If we're talking about Anthony Davis being a top five player in the league, like, I just would think that, like, at certain points he could just take over and be like, I'm scoring 40, this is going to happen tonight. I don't think Russ is so bad that that is like what's stopping Anthony Davis from doing that.

The Lakers just seem all over the place, but I guess I'm just reserving my like final verdict for like the LeBron return. I don't think it's Russ. I mean, you know, Davis could definitely be better. But, you know, looking at some of the role players around them, you know, how are you going to anchor a top defense? when your perimeter defense is as porous as it is.

Yeah. How much can you really have Carmelo Anthony on the floor, you know, in, in, in, in, 2021. And he's one of those guys. It's, it's the opposite stuff for him, right? Like, he's not, he's never really been, like, a big playmaker. He's going to be able to shoot for the rest of his life, but he doesn't really play much defense.

And he just doesn't really, like, he's definitely, like, he's got it on offense. Like, especially earlier in the season when he was shooting the lights out, like, you saw all the reasons why somebody like him could stay in the NBA and probably come off the bench for a really long time if they wanted to. Like he's always going to be able to pump fake a rook. Like he's always going to have like that strength. He's had old man strength since he was 20. You know, like so he's, he's always going to be able to do that.

But defensively, it kind of falls apart for him as it, as it always has. And, you know, you can kind of, you can go down the line even to Westbrook isn't, I don't think Westbrook is the reason that AD has not been able to, you know, get this team where to at least like, you know, a reasonable non-Lebron level, which sucks. I mean, that was the whole point of, I guess, bringing Westbrook in. Yeah. But at the same time, I think he kind of, he inhabits the thing that usually happens or has happened in the past with, with players aging out of the league.

like quicker guards. Like Kevin Pelton wrote this article on ESPN a couple years ago about how speedy guards or point guards in general, I think it was players under 6-3 or something. Like they just had this really steep decline after 30. It was actually something that was being talked about

during the Kyle Lowry negotiations like in 2017. Good thing they resigned him. I think that was built for the Raptors. But when Westbrook, on the other hand, kind of like the opposite where he is never really, I feel like Westbrook, like all these other guys that we've talked about, like, remember it every play that they've been through

in their lives. I feel like Westbrook forgets. He like, every game of basketball is kind of new for him. That's, to me as a man in his 40s, that's very relatable. Yeah. You don't feel like you're accumulating all these years of experience. You don't feel like you're, you're sharper?

I don't think that there's really much of a comparison between somebody who spends most of their week podcasting about television and somebody who has to play NBA basketball three times a week. But yeah, I mean, when I was Westbrook's age, I felt pretty sharp and felt like I had the nice balance of wisdom and pluck. But now I think it's starting to go a little bit.

All I got is wisdom, you know? You got plenty of pluck. Thank you. We could wrap it up there. was a, there's a really interesting conversation though. Like the aging curve in the NBA, we'll keep an eye on it during the season because I think we could probably just as easily

do one of these podcasts in February, March, and be like, all these guys got hurt. You know? Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. All these guys tore hamstrings and like, we don't know what's going to happen now. Yeah. Yeah, right. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Yeah, not cheering for it. Just saying, Sarah, thanks so much for joining me. We were produced by Isaiah Blakely. We will be back. Not next Friday because it's Thanksgiving. week, but the following Friday for more NDA talk on The Answer.