The Ringer NBA Show - Is Expansion Good for the NBA? Plus, Kevin Durant Voices His Frustrations | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

Logan Murdock and Howard Beck are back with another edition of Real Ones and dive right into the NBA's desire to expand with two new teams, with a possible return to Seattle and a fresh start in Las Vegas. Is this good for the league in the current climate given the problems with tanking, the style of play, and gambling? Plus, the Rockets fell to the Lakers on Monday night, after which Kevin Durant voiced his frustration with the outcome. Where do the Rockets stand as contenders with the season coming to a close? (3:30) NBA Seeking Expansion to Seattle and Las Vegas (5:33) Is Expansion Good for the League? (24:15) What Is Adam Silver’s Current Reputation? (39:14) Kevin Durant Voices Frustration After Rockets Fall to the Lakers (55:24) [e-mail] Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] https://www.theringer.com/2026/02/18/nba/adam-silver-nba-tanking-scandal-gambling-all-star-weekend https://www.theringer.com/2026/01/15/nba/nba-tanking-draft-picks-tankathon-76ers-thunder-adam-silver https://www.theringer.com/2026/03/17/nba/kevin-durant-nba-scoring-list-michael-jordan-legacy-twitter The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Howard Beck Producers: Stefano Sanchez and Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping? Real once Logan Murdoch here. Howard Beck in a second and Arrata today, but we get into a lot on the program. We talk about expansion in the NBA. Is it good or bad? And what does this mean for Adam Silver's legacy? Big legacy, Adam Silver talk. And then to add to the legacy talk, we talk about Kevin Durant.

What's his legacy? What's going on here? Big, great Michael Lee story, which is down below. Go look at that. And the show bio, really, really good story on Kevin Durant. and his scoring output as he approaches Jordan on the all-time scoring list. Then we talk about a little bit about Luca in the mailbag, which was fun. Where's Russell Westbrook going to end up next year?

A lot of fun stuff on the program. I think that's it. Real onesmailbag at gmail.com. Real ones mailbag at gmail.com. Real ones mailbag at gmail.com. Cliff. Play the music. It's popping.

Real one. Logan Murdoch here. Howard, motherfucking back there. Fresh off of the stage. in Brooklyn was Zach Lowe. Looking good, man. Big time. Putting off for the fam.

I mean, Wild night. Wild night at the Brooklyn Paramount. You look like it. We had a blast. Sam Morrill, the comedian joined us on stage. David Jacoby was there.

Zach, of course, myself. We had a great time. Amazing turnout. Great energy in the building. and yeah, lots of Knicks talk. Lots of, lots of angsty Nix fans in the house.

It's an angsty time. Is it never not an angsty time for Nix fan? No. I feel like that's a New York thing, right? There was probably, like, within this five year or so run here, where they've actually been good again, I think there were a couple moments of like pure, just unbridled joy and optimism.

And like, there's no bad ending. It doesn't matter, you know, we're just great, it was just great to be relevant again. that kind of feeling. But like with any team and especially here, like that wears off. Right. So at a certain point, it's like the, the angsty part right now is like they're headed for like their third straight 50 win season, which they hadn't done since the early 90s.

So big picture, it's all great. But like small picture, it's like, uh, but are they good enough to get past Boston? Are they going to get past Cleveland, Detroit? What if they don't win it all? You know, they're going to blow it up. Are they going to get hasty again and rash with their decision making? Like it's, you know, Knicks fans are feeling it because they're not sure if there's enough there. They're frustrated by Kat.

They're frustrated by McHale Bridges. Like, yeah, there's some stuff. I struggle to reconcile if it's easier to be a fan of a winning team or losing. I'm obviously a fan of a perpetual losing team. And it's easy to be, it's easier in a way to be a fan of a losing team. with no expectations because they can always, you know, defy those expectations, but it's almost like harder to be a fan of a winning team because you have those expectations and you don't know how long they are going to last when you are good.

So I feel for next thing. You know who else is going to be potentially going through that in the future? The fan basis of Seattle and Las Vegas. Because the NBA, according to Sham Sharania, will hold a vote at the Board of Governors meetings next week to explore adding an expansion team exclusively to Vegas and Seattle with the new franchise being targeted to play in the 28, 29 season. I believe that's two seasons now, two or three seasons from now. There's momentum within the board of governors in the league office to approve moving forward

with taking bids for Las Vegas and Seattle, according to sources. With knowledge of situation, industry executives, proposals in the $7 to $10 billion, range for each team and estimate that both markets will be among the NBA's top eight revenue generators, the market appeal of Las Vegas and Seattle. A growing number of owners are expected to support the expansion because of the long-term revenue growth of Las Vegas and Seattle. And this is what we're going to talk about. This is probably the best distinction of why this may not work and you've heard about this expensively. But some owners remain hesitant on selling some of the shares and having their league equity go for one, one-third

to 1-1-132. This will likely have some ramifications with teams in that Minnesota Timberwolves or the Grizzlies may move to the Eastern Conference to align with the conferences to have 16 teams each. This would be the first expansion since 2004 when the Charlotte Bobcats were put into the league to backfill after the Hornets left to become Hornets. Um, we kind of know where you are on this based on the extensive writing that you've had on the site. Go read that on the ringer.com. We will have the stories that we're about to reference from Howard in the show bio. We know that you've written extensively about how this may dilute the talent of the league. But bigger overall question, Howard, what does it say about where the league is going right now?

I'm not surprised that we're here. There have been so many signs pointing this direction. now for years, right? That they're going to expand, that it feels inevitable. If they do it, it'll be two teams. It's in the two cities that seem most likely were Seattle because the Sonics should have never left there in the first place. And Vegas because it's become the NBA's second home, basically. Like, it always felt like it was going this direction. I think before I get to your question, one of the things that strikes me about this is that they're not doing the traditional, even if it were not truly a thorough process. They're not doing the traditional

open it up for bids. And Adam Silver had been hinting at that the last couple of years as every time the expansion came up, it was always like, well, we can't presuppose which cities because there'll be a bid process. Well, suddenly the focus is only on those two cities. And it's fine. Like those are two very logical places for the lead to go. But, you know, I think of like, you know, the flirtations with, we're going to expand to Mexico city. or, which I think Adam Silver would love to do at some point. Maybe it's just too soon for that. Kansas City, Cincinnati, Louisville.

I'm trying to think of like of the other cities, you know, that the NBA is not in. St. Louis, maybe. Yeah, I mean, I can't remember like who else. Campton, I think Virginia Beach is also kind of flirted with it as well. I know that back in the day when Kings kind of did one of those sham things. Anaheim also San Diego, which I don't think is going to happen. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, I just, I figured there might be.

be more of a, even if they knew they would prefer Vegas in Seattle for the purposes of driving up prices of the, you know, the franchise fee, and for the purposes of just making sure you've explored all your options. But maybe they've already done that internally. Maybe they just determined, we don't care what the bids would be or the appeal would be of any of these other cities. We know where we want to be. We need to be back in Seattle after this 18 year. It'll be, you know, 20 plus years hiatus when they get back. And, you know, they've got all these ties to Vegas. So I guess I'm just surprised that they've decided instead of an open bid process,

it's going to be a two-team or two-city process here. The money was always going to be the biggest hurdle, right? They're making a guillian as a league. It's split 30 ways. That gajillion that has to be split 32 ways instead. So you want franchise fees, big enough to offset that and induce the current owners to go ahead and make the deal. And if, and if you are making less year over year because it's split 32 ways instead of 30, well, you get a

pretty big payout from the franchise fee at the front. You know, if it's going to be 10 billion per franchise split 30 ways, maybe that's enough inducement and maybe some of those owners are going to sell before they ever have to worry about, does it work out at the back end anyway? I don't care about that part of it, to be honest, Logan. It's an, it's an obstacle potential. in a debate for the owners themselves. And when they meet here in New York next week, and I'll probably be at that Board of Governors, presser with Adam,

when they meet, they'll discuss the math of it all because this is ultimately a money thing. Fine. What kills me on this, and you know where I'm going, like, this should be a basketball discussion. I know that sounds crazy and naive.

It should be a basketball discussion. And to me, the basketball discussion is, what does this do to the product? And so when you ask me, what does it say about the league? What it tells me is that the league is making so much fucking money right now that that that's the only consideration. And it goes back to what I wrote a couple weeks back about the league and Adam Silver and all the challenges in front of them.

You know, they've got these tanking issues and gambling issues and cap circumventions issues and load management issues and all these other things. Is this the right time to be expanding? Like solve the stuff you've got in front of you first. and on top of that, you're about to exacerbate a lot of issues, I think, by diluting the league. When you add two teams,

by definition, you add two more very, very bad teams. There's no such thing as an expansion in which you add two good teams. So it's interesting. Listen, we all love Seattle. All of us who covered the league back in the day are really happy to get Seattle back.

I'll be very excited. I'll be right up there. I'll be flying. I'll be doing the first. I'm telling you this now. I will be doing the first ringer piece out of Seattle. I will be the one that is flying up for that. I can't wait.

We'll all be arm wrestling for it. I've said many times over the years. I would love to see the NBA back in Seattle, but it should be by relocation and not by expansion. Yeah. So you brought up an issue when obviously with the money, right? And this isn't just an NBA issue in terms of expansion and expanding and trying to make, as you're making money,

trying to make more money. We're starting to see this with the NFL, right? With all of the extra games and all of the, attempts to fulfill the gaps of all the streaming service, right? The NFL is starting to have like a Wednesday night. They're making up holidays and making up days of why they should add games to the calendar, right? And they're diluting their brand in a much different way, right?

But I think the same thing goes, the same comparison is true between the NFL and the NBA in that they're not really focused on the game of it all, the product. of it all. It's more about just selling the product. And we've seen that in so many different ways, right? I think Adam Silver will say he got misquoted when he said, oh, you can just watch the highlights of the games. And, you know, it really doesn't matter where, you know, if you have to find it, it's going to be there. But you can just watch YouTube the next day. It's fine. But that's an example. the experimentation of this in-season tournament, which doesn't really help with the quality of the game

because you're asking a team essentially to play an extra game if they go to the championship, and then also derail their schedule in the middle of the season, say like the Knicks, for instance, have to have an impromptu trip to Vegas in the middle of their season to have to win a cup that doesn't really exist and something I didn't even care about to put a banner up, right?

But there's all of these different things where they aren't putting a premium on the product. I wonder when that gives, right? Because they're not going to, you know, as much as we like to say, hey, let's go down to 72 games. Let's get a better product. Let's sell a better product. It's going to be dilute, dilute, dilute, dilute. I wonder if there is a end game here on that that could end up negatively for this league, Howard, and not just this league. I'm talking about the sports in general because we're just in such a

sports gold rush where the product, the players, I don't know if they can sustain the weight of all of this just going forward. I'm really concerned about the next generation, but throughout all of this capitalism that is going on. I'm not just in the NBA, but sports abroad. Yeah. Listen, there's a case to be made or a philosophy, I think, that more MBA is always better. More basketball is better. And that two more teams means two more markets with passionate fan bases, more jerseys to be sold, more games to be programmed on the streaming services and the over-the-air services.

And that it's all good. It all just helps the game keep growing. And I get that. But I think, you know, we're also in a time when we keep talking about the toll that the modern game is taking on players. Steve Kerr, you know, lobbying again, you know, last week a couple of times for shortening the season. And the NBA's never wanted to do it because if you shorten the season, then that's less inventory to put on TV. And then are you taking less money from the networks, in which

case everybody makes less? Like, they could afford to do that. But I actually do wonder, like, could you do these things in tandem with each other? You're going to have more inventory just by having two more teams playing 82 game seasons. Does that backfill the inventory if you dropped from from 82 to 72 games. I mean, I wonder if they will talk about any of these things in concert with each other. I suspect not. I suspect that everybody's going to religiously hold to the 82 game schedule because that's just what it's always been and it's too scary to change.

But in terms of the quality of the game, this would be a way to address that, right? Well, we're going to expand and it's going to dilute the talent, yes, but offset that by saying, well, we've now solved our inventory issue. Now we can cut the schedule down and not hurt the amount of games that we can put on national TV. I don't know if that conversation's happened. My biggest concern as a fan of the game

and as somebody who's covered the game for almost 30 years, I just think you're going to have a lot of bad basketball, Logan. Like, I don't think there's any way around this. Like, look at what, and you can say that the, jazz and you know they've got some discernible talent now at least but like when you think about like the jazz or the the nets the wizards the teams have been tanking any of the last two to three

years you could say well they did that on purpose right they shed all their talent to be this bad so that they could play the lottery odds but if that's the case if you can intentionally build a roster that's that bad then that talent if there is enough talent in the league should be making other teams that much stronger and it's not really the case we just have a bunch of really bad teams. And you're going to add two more. And everybody in the process through the expansion draft, through two more teams being in free agent competition with teams,

everyone's going to lose a little bit, right? Like the key to the modern NBA, what do we always talk about? Oh, depth is so huge now, right? We don't have super teams for the most part. You don't have two, three, four superstars on one team. You might have one. You're lucky if you've got two. You better get a damn good third, fourth, fifth starter.

first three guys off the bench. Well, that great seventh man you got, he's now on the expansion team. But Howard, that's the other thing. And taking 30 shots a night. That's the thing that annoys me about the owner's line of, oh, we want parity and all these things because they speak out of both their side of their mouth.

They don't want parity. They want money. You know, they want to make sure that they're coster down and that they could have a hard cap so they don't have to pay the players. And then because they say they want parity on the other hand. they're like, oh, yeah, we'll take expansions to get this other check here. That's cool. Yeah, we'll definitely.

Let's go ahead, even though it doesn't make any sense. The other thing that I would add to what you're saying is the thing that the NBA has, that the NFL doesn't is they have a lot of games, a lot of games. You see a lot of the NBA. And the NBA, there's always a running joke of, oh, the NBA season doesn't start until around Christmas, right? There's all these games that the NBA says, you know, doesn't. matter.

There's dog days here. And the NFL doesn't have that. They're teetering on, you know, diluting their stuff because they're having so many more days. But the point that I'm trying to make here is that the NBA has all of these dates. And they have a, if you have all these dates that's diluting your game just in general, because you have a lot of games that, quote, unquote, don't matter for bad teams, which, you know, makes it easier for them to quote unquote take.

You're adding two more teams to that pot. who are also bad in the whole algorithm of what we're talking about. And then you add to the fact that there's so many bad players, I think that this is going to be a really, really, you know, hard sell going forward. I'm really scared of the product of basketball that we're going to see in general. And, you know, the, I can't imagine in, you know, 10 years, if this goes back, You know, we talked about the NBA taking their viewership for granted. But think about it, man.

If there's a March game and all these teams are bad, why would I want to go watch them play? Like if I'm coming to, if I want to go to Chase Center, bring my little homie there, and such and such isn't playing. And that's, or, you know, the Seattle team comes or there's an expansion team comes. and, you know, there has been just years and years of just, you know, fucking over the fan, that has, there has to be a tipping point. There just has to be, right? Like, right? Like, it does feel like we are at an impasse of some sorts and we're getting, all these

sports things are getting so big and so big, the ratings, ratings. It feels like there, there is another side of this to drop at something. And we won't know until we're there. I mean, I think that's the thing. The league can't know how fans are going to respond, right? They're banking on the fact that, you know, Seattle fans are starving to have the Sonics back. Cool. Like, that'll work out fine.

Like, they're going to sell out in Seattle immediately. They'll probably sell out in Vegas immediately. It's not the same as success, right? Like, selling out is not success. The revenue that comes in is not success. Are these expansion teams going to have to, have any sustained momentum behind them, whether it's not just, whether it's the fan support or the revenue, obviously, like, I do think as a business matter, at least on day one,

fans are going to flock to these teams. Like, that part is, is easy. I think we can all, like, predict that Sonic's jerseys will fly off the fucking shelves. And, and, and, you know, Vegas, whatever they, they end up calling themselves, that'll, that'll do fine too. But what the league can't, I think ascertain at this point, what they can only hope to imagine or project out, but is impossible to know because it's just human nature when we can't predict human nature is, you know, will the momentum sustain itself? Will the product on the court turn fans off because the quality has gone down that much more? How frustrated will fans in like, you know, bought, let's say. say like, you know, I'm thinking of like contenders right now, right? Detroit, New York, Oklahoma, San Antonio, wherever, when we've had an expansion draft and a free agency cycle or two,

and suddenly your favorite sixth man is gone or the seventh man or whatever and your team is like scrapping, trying to find two-way players to like plug in the rotation and you're like, this sucks. I mean, my, you know, I'm rooting for this team and they've done a really smart, you know, roster build, but they've lost guys because they had to fill 30 more roster slots in these other two new cities. Like, there's going to be a ripple effect. There will be. And, you know, anybody wants to look it up, like, go, go look at the opening night roster of the Charlotte Bobcats in, in 0405, whenever. Roger Bell's Charlotte Bobcats, he was there a little bit than that. But the expansion, the expansion draft was so bad that I think most of the,

if I'm remembering correctly, most of the players that the Bobcats drafted didn't end up on the roster for opening night anyway. They drafted based on expansion draft rules, got their roster put together, but then they went into free agency, they made trades, they did other stuff. And that was how they got, you know, the first opening night group. But it was a terrible, terrible team and was terrible for years after that. And this is the other thing I think about Logan. I don't want to pick on Sacramento. Um, I love Sacramento. As you know, I went to UC Davis. I spent many, many, many quality years in that, in that area. But I'm going to pick on Sacramento. I'll go ahead. Real quick, I love how you said, I don't want to pick on Sacramento and I'm from there,

but I went to UC Davis, which you do that way. You do got some distaste. And I'm from San Jose. So I'm not claiming Sacramento roots. Yeah. I'm just saying, like, in beat writer circles, especially during all my heavy travel beat writer years, I was always defending Sacramento because everybody was bagging on it as being one of the places they didn't like traveling to. And I was like, no, no, Sacramento's cool. It's got its charms, blah, blah. And yes, the sidewalks roll up at like 8 o'clock.

But, you know, I was usually defending Sacramento and I actually enjoyed it. Here's the thing, Logan. If you're Vivek Renadevevei, then you haven't exactly been, you know, you haven't exactly glorified yourself as an owner in the first place. you struggled. You're about to vote to not only have this, you know, like the revenue maybe takes care of itself, but you're going to divide the pie now by 32 instead of 30.

And you're inviting two teams in your time zone, in your region effectively of the country that are both higher destination places. Again, I wouldn't choose to live in Vegas over Sacramento. I like Sacramento and I'm not a big Vegas guy. But players love Vegas and a lot of people love Seattle, period. Players are not. Famous people love Vegas too, by the way.

Famous people really love Vegas. They love to hide out there. Yeah. People with a lot of money love Vegas. So if you're Sacramento, if you're the Salt Lake City Jazz, if you're some of the other places in the Western Conference in particular that are fighting, trying to just get talent on your roster, like, why are the jazz taking? because they need talent through the draft because they're not a destination for free agents.

And it's hard to get guys to come even in trade because they will do everything possible if they don't want to be there to dissuade your team from trading for them. I'm not resigning. I'll make noise. I'll be a pain in the ass. So if you're some of these other markets, you're going to invite him to, you know, I don't want to say necessarily big markets. Seattle is a big market. Vegas is big-ish. But they're glamour markets. They're destination cities. They're places that are going to be more appealing to a lot of players than you, Sacramento. I'm sorry.

And why are you inviting that in if you're the owner of the Kings, if you're the owner of the Jazz, if you're the owner of certain other teams? I don't know, ma'am. Like, I would be weighing all of that, but easy for me to say, I'm not the one with the, you know, the massive stack of dollar bills being thrown at me in the form of a $10 billion expansion fee for each team. I want to talk about the Adam Silver. of it all, right?

Because he is, we mentioned this at the top of the top of the program, just all of the things that he is going for right now, right? The, the, the, the, the, um, the tanking. By the way, he, for a guy that is going through a lot, he is really, at all intensive purposes, not around as much as you would like a commission or defeat, right? He does. He's barely spoken about any of this stuff. He's kind of hidden in the, in the ivory tower, if you will, in New York.

work for the most part. And, but what I do want to ask, though, is what is this season saying about him right now? With all of this stuff that is going on, for somebody that is this in real time, always trying to manicure his legacy and just hoping, thinking, figuring out what it's going to be, what is this saying about him right now this season with all of the seasons that are happening, but also all the things that are happening around him and how he's responding. Yeah, I mean, listen, man, I wrote that column a month or so ago about all eyes are on Adam with all these crises that he's dealing with. There's never been this many, you know, like massive, weighty issues in the NBA at the same time during his tenure, during David Stern's tenure.

Like, this is a serious moment with a lot going on. And the feedback I got from so many people around the league and past league employees as well was like, yeah, we're concerned to him. We're all watching Adam to him. We're looking to see what he's going to do. And I feel like the dual track expansion here, the domestic expansion with Vegas and Seattle that seems almost a fade of compil at this point. And the European expansion that seemingly came out of nowhere, like a year ago or so, it was all suddenly like this was like the most important thing in the world out of the blue.

And like were they going to try to launch it within? It feels to me like when you mentioned legacy, it's tempting to look at this and think, Adam wants to be the guy who finally planted an NBA flag overseas, not as an expansion of this league, but as an NBA property overseas. He wants to be the guy who finally conquers that front and to expand the NBA significantly for the first time in a long time, right? Even with Charlotte coming in, that was just to, you know,

backfill the Hornets leaving for New Orleans. Again, a mistake the NBA never should have made. They never should have let them leave. but this would be the first, you know, multiple team expansion since, you know, the early 90s. And you're mid-90s. And so is it, is it that? Is this just a, the natural course of things that the league feels like it's, it's in a position to do so financially, it's in the position to do so with the resources it has, this is just a natural growth that,

like, we're, we're doing this because it's inevitable. We're doing it because it's there. Or are they doing it because on some level it's a, it is, I don't want to say like, you know, legacy building. But yeah, maybe some part of it is like Adam wants to be the guy who got to say, I expanded the league. I put us overseas. I put us back in Seattle and fixed that.

I fixed all of my predecessors' mistakes, right? Like, essentially, right? I mean, whether that's fair or not, right? But whether that's fair or not, I think that that is going to be at least something that is a criticism or a narrative that is bestowed upon him based on, you know, what you're saying. I think that other thing is like, at least another question that I have for you, like, why does Adam Silver make us mythologize David Stern so much? Like, it feels like with all his actions, there's a ghost of David Stern in the background, right? Like, and I think even with

this expansion thing, there is still the ghost of him in a way that I don't think that other commissioners have to deal. That's an interesting question. I don't know. I mean, it's hard for me to compare it to the other sports. But, you know, there's a very direct aspect of this, right, where it's on David Stern's watch that the league allows the Sonics to leave Seattle for Oklahoma City. And Adam is part of the NBA then, but not the one in charge. Whoever was in charge now was going to be dealing with the fact that the league should have never left Seattle and wants to get back there. How you get back there is the thing. Again, they could just relocate a team instead of,

deciding to expand if you want to fix that particular hole. But the other aspects of it, I mean, Adam is definitely often judged by league people through the lens of, and you hear this sometimes, like, I think David would have handled that differently, or what if David were here? You know, like, it's a conversation. Like, I hate to say it.

I hate to say it out loud because I've been part of these conversations with a lot of league people over the years. And it's a little unfair, but it's done. It does happen. Like, I hate to say it because, you know, we all really like and respect Adam. But David is a very imposing shadow. And David had his faults to be sure. And they're very different in the way that they lead.

And they're leading very different leagues. Like, I don't think you can't, you can't interchange them. You can't send this version of Adam Silver back to David Stern's tenure and have it work then. And I don't think David Stern's kind of imperious, you know, bullying version of leadership. It's a different type of ownership. they've got so much more money now. Like you can't just say, David's starting to say, hey, all these motherfuckers do do. Yeah, exactly.

And you can't just run with the owners and be like, yo, everybody's getting just done. So it's all the, the conversations happen. They're unfair on some level, but we have them anyway. But I will say this. Adam Silver was just in Portland a couple days ago to meet with local leaders and the blazers themselves about, there was a, there was a, some measures. approved locally to fund renovations to the Rose Garden, what they now call the Mota Center, their arena.

And Adam Silver had kind of, you know, put some stuff out there last summer about, you know, hey, you know, we need to see something there. And like there was like this vague kind of, like Portland felt like the league was like lightly threatening maybe. Like if you don't upgrade the arena or replace it, like maybe you're going to lose the Blazers. And there was a lot of concern too

because expansion not being on the table yet, they were like, oh, will we lose, you know, are the Blazers going to be moved to Seattle? Yeah. So there's been a lot of this, right? So Adam goes to Portland a couple days ago, meets with all these people, did not meet with the local media,

did not speak to. My friend Bill Orham wrote about this in the Oregonian, I think today or yesterday, that Adam Silver declined, requests to speak to the local reporters, not just the Oregonian, but several other outlets that cover the Blazers. Now, he did sit for a brief interview with Brooke Olsendam from the Blazers TV network, but that's the, that's the team's TV partner. That's not the same thing. Yeah, yeah. It's not, and no disrespect to Brooke. She's great. But like, but that's different.

That is different. That's like when Leon Rose only does the sit down with MSG network several years ago and doesn't talk to beat writers, right? It's the same thing. Adam Silver went to the friendly, you know, the friendly audience. Like, he did not meet with local media. And they asked, they requested multiple times. I don't understand why that happened. But, you know, to your point, he's, he's not necessarily been as available as David was. David would make the rounds. David would bounce around the league over the course of the year. He would do local radio all the time, you know. Yeah. And again, it's a different time. I'm sure Adam has a reason for the different, though.

But it just, it speaks to the time one, but it also speaks to what I think is a fear that Adam Silver has of his own shadow. He's always scared of what his words are going to mean. And I think that there's a distinct difference that Stern for all of his faults did not have any fear of pretty much, I don't think anything, to be honest, maybe he's just going to go full bore. he will call reporters on and off the record and tell them about themselves in his mind, right? And Adam just doesn't do that. But I feel like in this time when, you know, public sentiment isn't on his side. It just seems like he's kind of cowering under that. And this is kind of when you need a front-facing leader to kind of steer the ship. And it seems like ever since this stuff has happened or the investigation has happened with the clippers, he just has just kind of been running scared. to do it like this season as a whole.

And I feel like there needs to be at least more outward leadership from him this time around as all of these things are happening. Right. Like we even talked about what's going on to the WMBA. Like he doesn't even have a role in that and that's an NBA property at a point where the W is in the midst of maybe a strike or, you know, that could be on the table from the PA side and might not have a season or might not have a season or might. have a shortened season in a time where they're trying to expand and have the, have the,

you know, the most eyes that they've had on them when they need to get a deal done has not been, there's been MIA on that, right? So he's been MIA on stuff that actually pertains to the league. He's been MIA on investigations that pertain to the league. And he isn't speaking to the media. Like, it just seems like someone that's just hiding in the ivory tower. And that's really disappointing. Yeah. In fairness, I want to make sure I mention this. You know, Adam speaks to several times a year and will be next week as one of these tent poll events, right? Board of governors are meeting here in New York and Adam will speak at a press conference afterward as he usually does. He also does that after Board of Governors meeting in Vegas in

July during Summer League. He'll do it again in like September, October range. There are those. He spoke at All-Star Weekend, of course. That's an annual thing. Speaks before game one of the finals. That's an annual thing. So there's all the tent poll press conferences, but those are press conferences. Then they're 25 to 30 minutes and there's, you know, only so many questions you can get in. And it's hard to drill down on any one particular topic because everybody's in the room has their own, you know, stories that they're pursuing. And so you, you know, it's scattershot. But that's it. Those controlled environments, those press conferences are pretty much all he does. And then occasionally it goes on with, you know, ESPN or one of the league's network partners.

That's it. But doing interviews with local media, especially, just, just seems like it never happens. And, you know, in the case of Portland, like, they're, you know, they're, they're, they're weighing hundreds of millions of dollars in, and I think taxpayer funds to, to upgrade the arena to, to keep the league happy with them or whatever. Like, that's a time when Adam should be talking. Yeah. My thing is like, if you're talking to local fans. Yeah. If you're trying to take people's bread, at least like trying to soften them up before you do it, right? If you're trying to, like, at least try to build some goodwill up, but then you go over there, try to take their buddy and then barely talk to them. Like, that's

bullshit. It's, it's. Yeah. Last thing, not on Adam Silver. We can talk about Adam Silver all day long, but there was one question I forgot to ask you that I want to ask to kind of put a bow on the expansion. Say Seattle and Vegas happens, which seems like it's about to happen.

What does that mean? Does that, if you're New Orleans or Memphis, do you have a sigh of relief or you're still scared? In terms of relocation? In terms of relocation. Is there a backfill that's going to happen? Are you like, who? Because I mean, I know New Orleans.

has a weird thing with its arena right now, so they could be on the move anyway. Their arena is probably the worst. Memphis has a good fan base, but I don't necessarily know if a lot of NBA people would, if you were, they wouldn't say it publicly, but if you were to get truth serum or got them in a back on, I don't think a lot of them like Memphis as a market. So that being said, question goes back to you. Yeah, you know what? Yeah, you know what?

City that we forgot to mention that I forgot to mention when I was saying, you know, know if they'd had an open bid process. Nashville is another one. That's a, that's a pretty, pretty sizable city. And already has an arena. Yeah. And, you know, you could, you could move the Grizzlies. If you were, if you were moving them out of Memphis, just move them over to Nashville. You got a, you know, Memphis would not like that. That would, that would not be. I'm sure they would not. Yeah, like, I don't know that the league has ever seriously considered relocation for those franchises or any of the others in recent times. But I think, especially in New Orleans with, you know, the, you know, the economy, fan base, resources, facilities, everything.

Like, it's a, it's in a, it's an ownership not caring about them as a franchise. The ownership not caring about them. Just ask any of their players. So I don't know if that's off the table. But I'm not sure if it was on the table. It's kind of in a murky area. So we'll see. I think the other distinct thing about, uh, the story for me, SPN yesterday about, you know, this process for expansion is that it alluded to the idea that either Minnesota or Memphis will be moved to the Eastern Conference. I'm like, where did New Orleans fall out of this conversation?

Because like if you're any of those three franchises, you all have a case based on the map to say, we shouldn't be in the West. And everybody wants to get moved to the East, right? Because the West has always just been for ever and ever the stronger conference. So like that escape route, you know, I. I expect a lot of jockeying from those franchises that New Orleans wasn't mentioned was interesting. Maybe they've already decided it's only one of the other Minnesota or Memphis. So yes or no, so they'd be concerned?

I don't know. I don't have a clear answer there. I'm sorry. Okay. All right. I'll say a quick break and talk about Kevin Durant. The ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fandle. Tournament is here and all Fandle is time to end.

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Kevin Durant, who has not had a great last couple of months with Burner Gate and just honestly just where the rockets are right now. I don't know if you saw the game last night, but he didn't play particularly well. against the Lakers was one of five in the second half, committed six of his seven turnovers and expressed doubt on whether the rockets benefited from him being the primary ball handler down the stretch of games. And I want to read you this quote. And then we will get to the rest of what we were about to talk about. I just feel like it just makes this stagnant. When I come across half court and they waited on me to drive, but I know they're coming

to double. So I wait a split second. I just think the whole process is too slow. And I just think that it's all on me because the team, when they see me, it just feels like one on five, to be honest. You know what I'm saying? Because I see two guys coming up in the corner to help at the elbows and guys at the boxes. It's almost like a zone when I get the ball up top. When I try to post up anywhere, it's going to be double team. So I'm trying to find out ways to open myself up and open my team. It's, he's in a weird place right now because it feels like if you watch the Rockets at any point over the last few weeks, it seems like a team that doesn't trust each other. It seems that it's not connected. And for better or worse, this is all coming down

on Katie. I have my opinion, and I'll get it throughout the conversation. But we're the Rockets of Kevin Durant right now. And this is also coming on the heels of an article that we're going to talk about from the great Michael Lee called Buckets Over Bullshit, the real legacy of Kevin Durant. So I will ask you, what is the real legacy of Kevin Durant? And what is this season done for that legacy? Howard, motherfuckerfunk. I mean, look, the rockets as we speak are still fourth in the West. They're more or less around where they've been, you know, where they were projected. We thought there would be somewhere in that top tier.

But because of how tightly the West is packed and the trend lines for them and they've been pretty meh the last several weeks, like, they could slip into playing range. Like they're, you know, they're as it stands now, they're a game and a half out of third where the Lakers are. and they are two and a half out of seventh, which is the suns. So, you know, a slip here or there, and you're at the bottom of the playoff bracket or you're down in the playing range. I don't know that this is a Durant thing, though.

Like, Durant's numbers are still pretty fucking good. Like, it's incredible at age 37, what he's doing. And at a high efficiency, too. There's, I don't know where the veiled shots are in his quote, if that is that about the coach is that about personnel is that about everything shangoon didn't play last night so that's you know problematic for them too because that's another big time score but also playmaking hub they never replaced fred van vleet and some of us me um said back in the fall they needed a playmaker like this idea that like amend thompson and reed shepherd and

everybody else we're all you know everybody everybody can all be playmakers they'll be fine they've got enough elite scoring options with Durant, Shingoon and a men Thompson. I just never bought it. I thought like Fred Van Bleet was super important to them. And you could see it when their offense gets stagnant. And this is this kind of stuff that Durant's alluding to. So, you know, I think everybody's pretty much kind of concluded at this point. The Rockets are not a serious threat in the West this season, right?

Like the Lakers are surging. We're not even considering them a serious contender in the West. where I think most of us are focused on Oklahoma, San Antonio, and we'll see. But this does feel like after this blockbuster trade for Durant that Houston is not going to get what they hoped for out of it. Can they, you know, I don't want to jump too far ahead, but I already start to wonder, like, you know, is Fred Van Bleet good enough coming back off of the ACL? The ACL, right? Is Van Blit going to be good enough that they can just say, you know what? next season we'll have the team that we thought we were going to have.

Stephen Adams will be back too because he's been hurt and we'll be fine. Or is there some serious roster reconstruction that they need to do? But Durant's going to be 38 to start next season. No guarantee he has another season as productive as this one. And it's interesting too, man, because like we've talked a lot about Steph. We talked about LeBron. Like those three as they're, you know, fading toward, you know, the horizon. LeBron's on a team that's third in the West,

playing a different kind of role, but very viable as a playoff team. Steph, not so much because the Warriors were just so injury-racked, including the injury to him, but mostly Jimmy Butler. Durant's, like, his numbers are spectacular. And, you know, and the Rockets are relevant, but I just don't know how much of a run they've got in them. There's a lot of moving parts here.

Like, I'll start off by saying, Durant's numbers are always awesome because individually phenomenal basketball player. And he hasn't lost anything. And he hasn't lost anything, which is crazy, right? So when I look at his stats, not to say I take it to Reginald because he is one of the greatest to ever play and he definitely raises the talent level of any basketball team. What I think is going to start to happen though, which you're going to start to see is a, people are going to point out a pattern that when he comes to the team,

the vibes tend to go down. And I think in this case, on some levels it's a little unfair because of what you said, the injuries, the lack of playmakers, all of those things, right? And it's also wild that the Rockets in hindsight didn't go to try to go get a playmaker or didn't even try to get one at the deadline, right? And kind of just stood Pat when it was very clear what this roster needed. And so, but I think that when you look at the team that is put in place, there's a very clear lack of trust. There is a very clear lack of cohesion on this roster.

There's a very just overall lack of bad juju. And that has been a pattern for the last few teams, or pretty much every team that Durant has been on. Right? Like an OKC, by the time he left, there was bad Juju. By the time he leaves Golden State, very well documented me and you both covered that extensive. By the time he leaves Brooklyn, bad juju all around. There's obviously, some of that is out of Durant's control, right? Like when you talk about Kyrie and his role in that dysfunction, Phoenix starts out well. By the time that he leaves Phoenix. Phoenix, I think

you could say even the region wasn't really sad to see him go. There was bad juju there. He didn't, you know, like the construction of the roster, there was whispers of that. And then when you get to Houston, I mean, there were, I would say before

his, the burner accounts said that there was trouble with the Houston Rockets and, you know, his role within the use of the Rockers. There were whispers of, you know, his dissatisfaction with the roster even before the, all this burner gate, right? And you see a team that is already seems to be just, I don't know the word to put on it, but it seems to have bad juju again, right? Like, and another thing that has been damning for the case against KD is like, the talented

roster around him, the young guys haven't necessarily gotten better, right? Like Amman Thompson hasn't necessarily made that jump that we were all expecting to make, him to make. And, you know, I was scared about that with the Durant trade because, you know, their games are a little bit, you know, I wouldn't say redundant because they do different things on the floor. But Amin seems to be a guy that needs the ball in his hands. And definitely is somebody, you know, when Durant comes, that takes the ball out of his hands. And I thought that was going to be a detriment to, you know, his own. overall growth. And then the other thing is like, look at Durant's peer group. Like, in this case, LeBron, because I think LeBron's talent suggests that he should be on that talent level. LeBron,

you know, when he was in a similar situation, obviously he was a bit younger. But there were a lot of guys, he had a talent to make the roster work around him, right, at his time. Durant hasn't necessarily really done that. And I thought this was a big opportunity for him to be able to be like to kind of change that narrative about him. And he hasn't really done it. In a perfect scenario, even with the injuries and I do give that the cretice that it deserves. But in a perfect world, I want him to be the reason why I'm in Thompson is just turning into a superstar, right? Or Isson has taken that next step or, you know, a lot, I wanted that to happen because this was a big opportunity for him to show and push away all the doubt of his leadership. But I don't think he's done that. I think that

he's been a great individual player, but I don't think that he has raised the, I don't think this team is better necessarily than last year's team. And last year's team was a lot more healthier. But this, it's always been a, um, his role within an offense has always kind of been, you. You know, you know, one against the other. And it's not just a one on five. And it's not his fault, but like it's the type of player that he is, right? Like he is a ball dominant post up and hit the three offensive player, one of the greatest that we've ever seen.

But he needs the ball in his hands. And, you know, he didn't want to play the motion offense that the warriors wanted him to play. And when other teams have tried to implement that he wants the ball in his hands and to be a playmaker. well within his right. But as a consequence, there's going to be a lot of staring and watching. And that's what the Rockets have been doing. And that's quite honestly, that's what the sons were doing when he was on the team there. But I do think that, yeah, he does have the great stats, but I think that he holds responsibility in this as well. Yeah, I mean, we did this a lot during

the LeBron peak years where when we're comparing Carmello or whoever else, like, LeBron elevates his teammates. Why doesn't player X, fill in the blank, Carmelo or somebody else, do the same. LeBron was always a point guard, essentially. I don't care what he's been labeled out over the course of his career. That dude's been the point guard on pretty much every team he's ever been on in the NBA. Aside from essentially this year's team with Luca, where Luca is clearly the lead orchestrator. But Kevin Durant, as much as he's had the ball in his hands throughout his career, is not, he's not a point forward.

Like, he can play make, and his assist numbers are pretty robust. for a, you know, a power forward slash small forward score type who mostly, you know, scores in isolation and can drive the ball, does all these things with it. Like, he was as a very good playmaker for that, but he's not built, and I don't mean physically. I mean, like, you know, spiritually as a basketball player, he's not built like a point guard. He's not running the offense. He can, but not in that same way as LeBron. And so, like, that's why Fred Van Bleet was so important to have on this team, right?

And those two never even ended up playing together. Maybe they will next season. Maybe they'll find another point guard who can, you know, be that organizer and take on that responsibility. And also, you know, yeah, exploit the best of Kevin Durant when necessary, but also make sure their guys get involved and keep the offense moving. And that's the problem that the Rockets have had is just, that, you know, they've just ended up becoming like a series of guys who will do something with the ball in their hands individually. There's not a lot of synergy happening there.

And you could say that that's partially Durant's responsibility. And I don't dismiss that. But I think a lot of this is just structural for the Rockets. Yeah. I do think two things can be true. Right. It can be structural, but it can also be, you know, you know, I think it's just more so like I think I wanted this to be an opportunity for him. to kind of change a lot of things that we thought that he is, right? Or at least that we bestowed onto, you know, what he is and what he was going to be. And, you know, it's funny. There's a quote in the Michael Lee story was to get you guys to check out.

He says, people don't truly appreciate anything until it's not here anymore. Anybody wants to credit. But after a while, it really doesn't matter. It's not going to make or break my life. I'm going to expect love or praise or anything from the game or anybody. Just go out there, do what I do, and love what I do. do without getting anything back. Oh, that was an interesting quote.

Because it was one of those things where the words don't necessarily match up with the actions over the last few years, right? Because he said the similar thing to me. And he said the similar thing to other people. But he's always a guy that is just kind of trying to real-time manicure his image. Like, actually, this isn't how it's supposed to be. this isn't how I was this isn't how the narrative was when I was at team X or team Y. Why are you doing this?

Why are you saying these things? For a guy that doesn't care, he tends to try to correct the record a lot. And I just don't know where he goes forward from this and where the Rockins go for. Because he is one of the most talented players and one of the smartest individuals that I have ever seen. Play the game with basketball. And he deserves to be, you know, entitled contention year in and year out. And I think it's just sad, right? Like next year he's going to be a year older.

Is this team going to be viable, right? Like, is this team, is our men finally going to take the step that he's supposed to be able to take that we all expect? And is there going to be, you know, should it coulda would or should we have actually made this trade on the Houston side, right? Because it just hasn't been fruitful. Like, there's a world they can go into the plan. and be a lower seed, right? They're good right now, but, you know, we'll see what happens. It's just sad.

Just sad how what's going, Howard. Yeah, but it's also like, as I wrote back in January with the Steph piece, but, you know, like these things never or very rarely end with glory, you know, for fading superstars, right? Like, there's a lot of different ways this can go and almost none of them are glorious. So that's what we're seeing into various degrees with Steph, LeBron. and KD. But, you know, the good news is, like, two of those three are still very relevant in this postseason, Katie and LeBron. And if not for injuries, I mean, who knows? Maybe the warriors

still find their way out of the play in and we see them in the playoffs. Maybe we get a few stuff moments. But, like, you know, the doors are shutting quickly soon. But everybody should go check out Michael Lee's piece on the ringer with Kevin Durandy. You got an exclusive sit down with him recently. It's, you know, Katie talking about pursuing MJ who he's going to pass on the all-time scoring list soon and a lot of other stuff. So great stuff from our buddy Michael Lee on the ringer.com. Yes, sir. One of the greats. Both of them. Kay and Michael Lee. Michael Lee's had a relationship with him going all the way back to DC. So you should definitely check it out because he has a very, very unmatched insight into Kevin Durant for a long time now. Cliff,

what's going on buddy time for mailback we're here with cliff who who was uh yeah so do you do you look like a howard does when you go to brooklyn like the day the morning after a night in brooklyn what did you mean yeah what does that mean man i'll be chilling in brooklyn man i love brooklyn that's my second home you know Howard Howard tries to act like a professor but you know he's an undercover rager on a night in brooklyn you know what i mean it's like it's college all over again yeah you already done it's a couple spots you're good probably catch Howard at in Brooklyn. For sure, sure.

Definitely, definitely. Park Slope, man, all day, baby. Yay! Let's get to this first question from Nathan Hill. This subject title is Referee's Tex and Luca. Hi, guys, love your work. I'm listening to the pod here in Australia

from last Saturday when you guys were talking about Jalen Brown's ejection. Howard mentioned that back in Raj's day, rest with toss players for what they get away with now, specifically reference Luca. I'm a huge Lakers fan and admire Lucas talent, but I can't stand watching this guy play basketball due to the constant winding to the

refs. My question, why don't the refs toss him every game? I would have absolutely no problem with it, nor should any other Lakers fan or the NBA or the NBA itself. It's a terrible look, not to mention the missed defensive assignments because he is still barking at refs. Every single play, my job, that is in all caps with three exclamation points. The fact that Lucas still gets away with it is mind-numbing.

He is brilliant, but at this, this rate, will he be remembered as a petulant and flawed star as well as the subject of the trade rather than a nightly triple double machine that brought his team to title contention every season? Perhaps Nico is right after all. Nate Ocean Grove, Australia. Boys have at it. Shout out to Australia and New Zealand because they'd be holding us down. I would love to go one day. But phenomenal NBA fans out there. Yeah. I see some of them every year at summer league. And yet I've still never gotten to New Orleans or to a New Zealand or Australia somehow. You know what I realized before we get to the question? I just found out that it's not Melbourne.

It's Melbourne. Anyways, they have a different accent and pronunciations in a different part of the world. Let's go figure. So listen, I mean, we covered this. Yes, Luca complains too much. Yes, Luca probably does enough to get tossed from every single game. No, I don't think that that's a reasonable solution to the problem of Luca or anybody else in the modern NBA complaining too much. Although I love the idea. Hell, that would get the complaining out really quick if guys were just getting tossed left and right. I don't know if the NBA's staff of lawyers would be able to keep up with all the grievances filed by the Players Association. But, you know, give it a shot.

Or the fan base. It's like I just paid for to go see Luca and he's out in the first quarter. Yeah. Three minutes left in the first quarter. Yeah, not a great look for the league. I mean, that's the thing. Like, the league just had to make its peace at some point with this. And the referees did too.

The bar is as much higher now, I would say, to get ejected, essentially. The players have a lot more latitude than they did 20 years ago in terms of how much shit they can talk to the refs. It's just true. The league adjusted because it didn't, you know, a different generation of players came along that were pretty aggressive with the refs. And, you know, they've tried being doing the hardliner thing over, you know, very, you know, stretches of the last 15 or 20 years. And I don't know if you remember this, Logan, like, there was an All-Star weekend. I think it was in L.A.

where it was going to be a player ref summit to talk about their issues because things had gotten really. Was that 18? Was that 2018? Something like that? I can't remember. But just, you know, just, just fucking dramatic silliness of summit. We need a summit with the players and the ref.

Yeah, the league just basically just, I think, you know, let go with the rope on this one. You know, the players get away with a lot more. And unfortunately, that means that, you know, fans are going to have to see them yapping a lot more. And in some cases, as in the Luca case that our listener flagged, yeah, maybe he's not getting back on defense while he's doing that too. I don't know, man. I think one thing to the question, though, is where the question, though.

The last part of the question, though, he is brilliant, but at this rate will be remembered as a petulant and flawed star rather than a nightly triple double machine. If he doesn't win, yeah, that's what he's going to be. what he's going to be looked at. There is a danger, especially if he continues to do this. Like, it's all good as long as you're great as long as you're making those like brilliant shots against Denver. The other night, like, yeah. But this is going to catch up to him if he doesn't win. And by the way, like one of the things, like I am completely out on the Lakers in the postseason.

I don't think that they're going to do it. But there is like, because Luke is so good and he had, there is that fear like, oh, shit, Luca could go on a playoff heater. But to the point of the question, I do think that if he doesn't start winning and start actually, you know, raising a Florida Lakers, especially in a market like L. He'll be remembered as somebody that got a lot of points and got a lot of assists and a lot of rebounds, but ultimately, like, undermined all of that success with his antics. So we'll see. Thanks, Nate. It's on the table. Let's get to the second question here. This is from Pete Zabata.

Hello, real ones. Huge fan. I see the show as follows. Logan is PG, kind of a kid. Howard as a traditional power forward aging Kevin McKell with Giel and rickety knees. Raja as defensive small forward,

Buck Williams with a jump shot. Cliff is sort of like Doc Rivers. Oh man. wishing he was coaching the pistons. Jesus. Detroit basketball, but stuck with the real ones. That is a deep false.

My question is as follows. I like seeing NBA players who do more with less. Stars that lack in. the athletic department but make up for it with skill, finesse, and pure craftsmanship. Some examples include Jalen Brunson, Nicola Yolkich, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan. Who else fits in the category of great but not gifted? Maybe Luca, Hardin, Dremont, thanks. Pete. That is from Pete Zabata. Let's just get this out the way. All these players are gifted, okay? Maybe not like physically

gifted and athletically gifted, but they are gifted. Like, I can't a good conscience say that Luca Hardin and Dremont aren't gifted players. Like, I, I, I get what he's saying. I, I get what he's saying. We think of like this athletic prototype, right, where they're the guys who come in who can jump out of the gym or they're super quick. And like, we think of the physical tools and the guys who are physically, athletically super gifted. and then guys who have become stars based on some combination of their basketball intellect and their craftsmanship and technique, right?

Yeah. You know what I mean? I have a hot take on this one, and I'm curious your opinion. I've gotten flame for this a lot of, like last time I brought this up a few years ago. But, and maybe because I didn't explain it as much as I should have. But I'm thinking about Kobe Bryant. And the reason why I'm thinking about Kobe Bryant is he didn't jump out. of the gym like Neek, right?

Like, he didn't, he didn't shoot the ball necessarily like Steph, who has, right? But he made the most out of the body that he had as a 60s guy, right? Like, and definitely did that with developing his skill, particularly his postgame, particularly his smarts of the game overall and finding his spots on the wing and developing that mid-range jump shot and just practicing. all those trick shots and things like that. He definitely had the skill, the finesse and per craftsmanship when he didn't necessarily have the athleticism of the peers that he was compared.

It's funny you mentioned Kobe because I thought about him too. Like certainly by normal human standards, Kobe was incredibly athletically gifted. But I've said this and written it and, you know, he just, think about him compared to his peers. He couldn't jump as high as Vince Carter. He didn't have... 38 inch vertical leap for him. Yeah. Which is good. Like, I would love to have it, but, you know, not peak at NBA athleticism. Yeah. He was not more athletic than Vince Carter. He was not more athletic or as as long and tall as Tracy McGrady. Right. Like, Kobe did not have the most physical tools, but he made the most of what he had. And I think that is the story of his career to a

large extent. Our listener was mostly focused on stars who fit this, but I keep thinking of guys who are like a tier below that who made the most of what they had without being like having classic NBA athleticism that jumped off the page or where they could jump out of the gym kind of stuff. Like Shane Battye, right, was the no stats all star. That was the headline on him from New York Times Magazine piece for many, many years ago. Kyle Lowry, who. Fred Van Bleet, who we were talking about earlier. Norm Powell, like, guys who are like, they're not that classic NBA leaping,

athleticism, quickness, whatever else, but they just get the most. You don't want to add to that? You know what I add to that? Andre Miller. Andre Miller. One of those would just like just piss me off when he was playing against my team because I'd be like,

how is he doing this? Every time I watch Andre Miller, I'm like, how is he doing this, right? not, couldn't jump over a, couldn't jump over a cricket, but he was all about spacing and was like, it typically when you think about those guys, you think about the smarts, like Dremont, his whole career is based on mastering angles and getting to a spot no matter what before another guy does, right? So, Andre Miller would add to it. Yeah. I remember a game, a camera, was it an All-Star game? Andre Miller, like, had a breakaway to the basket and just like laid it up

and everybody like booed because they wanted him to dunk it, but Under Miller doesn't dunk. Like, I think he could dunk, but just chose not to. I think I'm remembering that correctly. I can't remember what the contest was. How about Chris Paul? I think Chris Paul is definitely one of those types of guys. He's done it with all smarts.

He's not the most athletic guy. Isn't the tallest guy. Dude, early in his career, his lateral quickness was fucking off the charts. Like he, the later parts of his career, you're right. Early in his career, though, that dude was super quick. What's the next question? All right, this final question here is from Kohn Amadu Da Duwado. There you go.

I think I'm trying. Hopefully I messed that up, man. My fault, Amidu. Good morning to you all. It's Amadu from Montreal, which is still in Canada, not in USA for some people's education. Initially, I wanted to send you guys a message two weeks ago, but it was my birthday, just like my guy, Jason Tatum, March 3rd. Last week I forgot.

So I thought I'd change. I had a question about Westbrook, what his first. future is in the league. He's averaging still 15 points and six assists. However, he was not far to be out of the league earlier to season. I still think he could play a good role in a championship team if he accepts coming from the bench, but will teams of that level try to get him next summer? Amadu. Thank you, Hamadu. Right now you know what like that. Can I start? Can I start yeah. Go for it. And we're by the way, we're happy. We're happy that Montreal is still in Canada. We're very happy about it. Can it let Canada still be Canada. We're we support that.

Love to all my Canadians, man. I got a lot of love from my Canadian. I think he'll be back with the Kings next year. I think all you need is one team, and I think the Kings have loved what they have seen from him. I think they can talk themselves into him being a veteran presence in the locker room as they try to build it, build from the ground up. I don't know how successful that is going to be,

but I think that he'll be back. I think that's the one team that he'll be back with. I think that's the future league. I mean, you only need one team. I don't know if he's going to be a contender, but he's getting everything he wants here, man. You know, he's getting all the shots down the stretch. They're not winning, but like Russ is, you know, he's being able to defend his team, defend himself and the team against the media.

Good Lord. You get to be full of Russ. He gets to be himself. And Zach seems, sack has nothing to lose. Why not bring him back? Pun intended. Yeah, I mean, he was pretty close to not having a roster spot. And we like the Kings are one of the most confounding franchises in the league, generally speaking.

But it does seem like under Scott Perry, they're trying to like clear things out, right? They've made some moves and there's more to come. And we'll see like, you know, are Demard de Rosen, Zach Levine still on this roster come to fall? They get the number one pick in a few months. Yeah, there's Demona Sabona Sabona still on the roster. Like I, it's still early for this administration. and so I don't want to be too critical, but I don't have a clear sense of what they're trying to do

and where Russ might fit into that. And it may depend on how the lottery balls fall and who they end up getting in the June draft and what role do you see Russ playing around that guy or if he makes sense there at all. But like if it's not the Kings, and I'm with you, Logan, I think like it, like that seems like the most logical thing is just like maybe one more season there

as a supporting player on a rebuilding team. built around a new young stud that they hope to get in the draft. But if not there, man, like, I'm looking around. I'm like, are the Rockets desperate enough to bring him back? Like, you know, behind a rehabbed Fred Van Bleet. The Sons, you never know what Matt Ishbia might do. But the Mavericks is a backup to Kyrie. I'm looking around.

I cannot find a team that makes sense for him, to be honest. I think that you're great right to reference Scott Perry and his team because on paper they are in charge. But I think you're missing the plot here. I don't think that it's their decision whether Russ goes back. I think it's Vivek who loves aging stars and more than anything just loves to be in front of a camera and loves the idea. And he loves big names. I think he would love to have a Russ bag just for a lot of different

but more of the notoriety of having a Russell Westbrook in Sacramento I think that I think it's above Scott Perry Perry's pay grade You may be right That's a fair point God

Why does it get so depressing when we talk about the king? Like it just gets It just brings the energy of the podcast down man God Twice twice in this show My fault the first time for referencing them. But, yeah. Yeah.

Anyways, that has been another edition for real one. This has been really, really fun. Rulwinsmail at gm.com. Rulwensmail at gm.com. Real ones, mailbag at gm.com. Keep putting in your questions, man, because we are going to keep answering them, especially as the postseason comes into focus.

We've got March Madness next week or this week, but that'll be fun. All right. Friday, we'll see you guys then. I think Roger's going to be back right then. Until then, enjoy. Real ones about back at gmail.com. Real ones about it, gmail.com.

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