The Ringer NBA Show - Is Giannis Better Off in Boston or Miami? Plus, Dusty Does Dallas and Draft Cause and Effect. | Group Chat

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

Justin, Rob, and J. Kyle Mann are back to discuss which team they’d rather see Giannis on now that the reporting is saying it’s down to Miami and Boston. Then they do draft cause and effect, take a look at a few of the interesting picks in the lottery, and talk about what the picks should be and what they'd mean for each team—including the Dallas Mavericks, who just hired former Michigan head coach Dusty May.(00:00) Intro(3:24) Giannis trade news(38:19) Draft cause and effectHosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and J. Kyle MannProducers: Victoria Valencia, Isaiah Blakely, and Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me, as always, Jay Kyle Mann and the new head coach of the Dallas Mavericks. It's Rob Mahoney. What's up? I got the job? Yeah. Didn't you know? What are my qualifications? Because I wouldn't know.

Good guy. Okay. Likes basketball. Sure. Knows how to speak to the fans. A good representative of what the franchise is all about, baby. You know what? I would say those things alone.

pretty dramatic upgrade over a past iteration. So congratulations to me and the Dallas Mavericks, I guess. Yeah, efficient speaker, homegrown guy, you know, I think has the right temperament for it. I don't know that I've ever seen Rob get too riled about anything other than, you know, some, you know, open denim shirts or anything like that. I mean, he typically keeps it pretty cool. Don't get me flustered on air, Kyle, please. Well, Rob had a couple days off from us. Like, how you feel it?

Like, do you feel regenerated? Do you feel like... What did you even do? The spirit is moving through you to talk about some trade fodder from maybe trades? I mean, I missed you both. I have to say, did I miss the NBA draft? Eh, I mean, I'm getting caught up. You know, I'm still getting up.

Your continued condescension. At least it's shitty when it goes into the bottle because we have to uncork it come in the fall with all his takes. Who's Tyler Kolic? NBA champion Tyler Koloch, Rob. Stick that one squarely up, your arse. Look, genuinely, it is not condescension. Just me acknowledging my personal. limits. Do I know all of these prospects? I'm still getting up to speed. I'm still reading

Jay Kyle Mann's draft guide. I'm still reading the mocks. I'm still crunching tape. If I'm being totally honest, I'm crunching more Lawrence of Arabia 70 millimeter tape at this given point in time. I'm trying to take a step back from the NBA lifestyle to just like, I don't know, live a well-rounded existence. Is that allowed on this pod? You got three hours for Lawrence of Arabia, but you don't have three hours for Braden Burry's tape. Come on, man. I got bad news. It's more than three hours. That shit is crazy. How long is it?

It was unbelievable. But it was like, it's almost four hours plus intermission. That's crazy. Holy moly. Well, that's a great sell for this podcast, though, because we're going to be talking some draft stuff later on, but we're also going to be mirroring it with like teams that might be doing things outside of that. Teams kind of stuck in this middle ground where they have high draft pigs, but they also have some business to attend to into the off season.

A little draft cause and effect is what we're going to call it. Check that out. But first, we got to talk. about Janus, but we'll do that after the break. This episode of the Ringer NBA show is presented by Ferreiro. The world is watching. Go all in for your team this summer with Ferreiro. Enter for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats.

Like Kinderbuezboino with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling, or Keebler-chips deluxe cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks, or Ferreiro-Roschet squares with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold. Go all in. Buy any two Ferreiro brands and you could win $1 million. Official rules apply. Learn more at go all in and win.com. All right.

It is currently 9.15 a.m. Pacific time on Monday. So if you are listening to this, that means that Janus has not been traded. But we are going to talk about this and what could happen because it seems like something is at the very least on the goal line. We have reports as of this morning. seems like it's Miami or Boston, and it seems pretty certain that he's going to get moved

before the deadline. Rob, I don't know about you, but I'll say this. I was pretty much done with all Yanis talk until about, like, two days ago or so, just really fatigued. And so if the audience is out there being like, oh my God,

what's going on here? We're going to do this again. At the very least, like this feels more realistic than ever before. Like, it feels like we're about to get something finally. We'll take it.

We will take the finish line. I think all I was really hoping for, though, is if this process was going to drag on, and it certainly has, that we would get some twists and turns, that would get some new suitors entering the fray, that, you know, teams like Portland would be considered in a totally different light. The fact that we're here and it's still just kind of like the heat,

and I guess the change is that the Celtics are materially involved in these conversations and that Jalen Brown in particular is so heavily rumored in them, that's the new development. Maybe that's enough. Maybe that's enough to kind of get the juices flowing again and make this feel exciting after, I mean, we've just gone round and around with the Yannis stuff for so long. It feels like every other possible consideration and option we've already kicked around. Yeah, I think the combination of Jalen's, the thing that has kind of made this cross,

go over the mountain into, you know, more of a real, like it's a realistic possibility and a more interesting possibility, in my opinion, is the combination of this track that Jalen Brown set on with Tatum being out this past season where he went on this journey of having all this new responsibility that he clearly enjoyed and relished and maybe, you know, like Caesar once he got control of the army, didn't, or he became, isn't that the way to say, he didn't want to, didn't want to give his power back after he had taken it. So I think, and so the, I think the juxtaposition of, you know, Jalen may be wanting to segue at this point into his career to his own team, the Bucks needing a new kind of central piece for their team, getting rid of Janus. I mean,

that's one of the possibilities. This has yet to, as we said, uh, actually formally happen, but it's a very, very interesting storyline, I think. And watching Jalen, if this does go down, I think will become a very fascinating thing in the East for for Milwaukee next year. So is the, is the, the Dias cast moment to just like really torture the Caesar thing further? Is it Jalen Brown becoming a superstar or is it him becoming publicly kind of involved in these conversations to a point where maybe there's no going back from something like this? You're saying, like saying on a Twitch stream that you would prefer to have your own team might have like, push them in the direction of giving him his own team.

He said a lot of thing on Twitch streams. You know, like, I think it can all be chopped and elipseyed into being whatever you want it to be. But look, he's, he's been, I think, as forthright as you're going to get an NBA player to be on record about the fact that he enjoyed having this opportunity. And I really don't begrudge him that. Like, I know it's a little weird coming off of a season like this to say things in that particular fashion. But a lot of these guys want the chance, want the control, want to lead a team of

own want to see what they can do. It just may take moving away from Boston in a deal like this to kind of really make that happen for Jalen Brown in a sustaining sort of way. You're welcome to lead your life any way you want. If you would prefer to be playing off of Ryan Rollins and whatever like second round picks the bucks can cobble together over the next like five drafts or however it is long it is until they get their own picks back, like have at it. I think the thing, Kyle, that really like jumped out to me throughout this entire process and is still going to be the case once we finally get a Yonnas deal, is just that the Bucks really screwed this up by waiting this long.

Like, as we're going through the draft, I'm like, why didn't you like just settle this last off season, tank so that you could be a part of this great draft that we're about to get and also avoid the forthcoming penalties or the new lottery restrictions that are going to make it tougher to be in your exact position going forward from this point. And it also feels like they're in the situation where they have to choose between two like fine returns. It's either Jalen Brown plus whatever else is cobbled together or like the poo-poo platter in Miami where it's like Hakez, hero, where you might spin hero off some like late

round picks. And so I'm like, can I have neither? Like neither is neither an option anymore? Well, I think parsing which one is the poo-poo is a big question here because I keep here, it's all a matter of perspective. Obviously, we're evaluating guys in when we go into these deals. Evaluating doesn't just happen when guys come into the league. I talk to people around the league who work for teams. We're like, we're always evaluating. We're always evaluating guys that have been in the league for a while. And I think when you look at the Miami Heat one, I keep hearing repeatedly people like saying that that's, or it was reported this morning that it was believed to kind of be the better asset play. But I'm like, Kalele Ware was sort of a risky pick for Miami took him knowing that that was

sort of a like, this might turn into something. I don't know that we've moved out of this might turn into something phase with Colele Ware as much as he's shown off and on. We're like Tyler Hero is he we know he can we know he's clutch. We know he's been in big games. We know he'd be hypothetically going home. People keep talking like that. That's more of a just connection that I think we all keep drawing and assuming that it's like some kind of positive thing for the bucks. It's like I don't know that it necessarily is. I think repeatedly we've heard these these NBA players like I wouldn't want to move to my fucking hometown. I don't know if you guys are like this. granted i'm from a very tiny town but i um nothing against taylor'sville but uh granted i just

i think there was a lot there i just diss sailorsville sorry it's just small i didn't want to live there anymore um bolts and board material for taylor's man i can't go i'm not getting a banner that's for sure uh no uh we're just talking about which one makes the most sense i mean we went through this cycle of um the bull or the you know the warriors with their their offering that and i thought that that was kind of an attractive offering. But I also think we've gone on an interesting ride with Janus in terms of his, the three of us charted this throughout the year where it's almost like the bucks sort of in there, in their, like accepting the possibility that they might be breaking up with Janus in moving on and sort of trading that off. I feel like we've gone on an interesting

ride with him where I don't feel like we feel the same way about him that we did six months ago. I mean, even how recently it's just been a, it's been an odd sort of sea change for how he's viewed within the league, I feel like. Yeah, he's going to be what, 32 next season. Obviously, the injuries have been mounting even before this season. And the weird thing is it feels like no matter where he goes, let's say it is Boston or Miami at this point. They're going to need a lot of him because you're gutting probably a lot of the depth or your rotation pieces in order to do it, especially in Miami. And so it's just like you're going to need a lot from him. And that led to some. of the soft tissue injuries with the bucks in the first place. And so I get all that. It's just, I just don't know at this point, if you're the heat, for instance, if you want to take this team by team, like, what else are the heat going to do? That's kind of where I've ultimately netted out here. At first, I was a skeptic of, like, Miami trying to pull the trigger on something like this, Rob, but, like, you go through it. It's just like, is Bam, Janis, Wiggins, if they bring

back Norm Powell, like, that's way better. I would. assume than just going with the poo-poo platter and figuring out later. Yeah, I think it's better in terms of the basketball. I also think it's better just in terms of sort of the spirit and energy around the team. Miami likes to kind of linger in these spaces and see what developmental projects are going to pop. What's the piece that might elevate them to a surprising tier? And frankly, we've seen them do that enough and Eric Spolstra do that enough to ever kind

of turn our noses up at it. Like they are very good at finding ways from the middle of the Eastern Conference Pack up into competitive echelons. That said, like this particular group, it's harder and harder to see those inroads. Like, this is a perfectly competent team. I suspect if they rolled it out as is, they would be perfectly competent again in many ways. But why?

Like, to what end other than that continued sort of treadmill existence, hoping that you get the jump, hoping that you get the pop? Why not see what you can do with Janus? A player who, I think, temperamentally, in terms of his habits, aligns with a lot of what the heat are about could fit what they do in a lot of ways, could fit the development of someone like Bam who is trying to stretch out his game more and more every season. And thus, those two guys might be able to play together if you can keep Bam in a trade like this. I really just don't see the downside for Miami, given everything that they're playing for right now, which is mostly

just where are you going to fall in the play and mix, if that. No, I mean, I know Miami wants to do it. I'm just kind of, do we, if we're weighing the potential offerings between Boston and Miami, though, are you taking Miami's like just no well sure because I'm not I don't see it as much my thing with every one player centric offer for Janus dating back to when Evan Mobley was like a hot like sort of speculation is that why would you just basically trade Janus for another player in a similar situation where you had so much difficulty building the right contender immediately around Janice Jalen Brown is just like a younger different version of that and I get if you're an owner and you just want to sell a certain product and the offers are already

so middling to begin with, maybe there's enough there. But I like Jalen if they're then going to spin Jalen off into other assets because my whole thing for this entire like what, two years at this point is you just need stuff because you traded all your stuff, all your raw resources, your draft picks, everything else in order to build the teams you had in the past. Like where's the other stuff coming from? Like there are no means to get there other than just like mining guys from the G League and like on the fringes. So we're just in stuff acquisition mode if we're the bucks now. We're not thinking like we reset.

Now we have Jalen. We're moving forward. I mean, is that, I feel like that's probably the smart way to go. Yeah. That would be my approach. Yes, because what's left with Jalen?

It's Ryan Rollins. You presume Kuzma might get traded in this. Like Turner, you would assume want to like spin off again. Like it would just be a like six C, like what we're saying about the heat right now. Sure. It would be that sort of team where it's like,

in maybe in the right year it gets a little bit better. Well, to me all this is kind of order of operations talk. Like, do you want the supporting picks and role players and infrastructure necessary before you try to bring in a star? Or do you want the star to be a kind of foundation that then frees you up to trade and try to acquire the other things through other means? I think the Miami offer, as it's been reported so far, we'll see if that isn't happening, what the finals on it turn out to be.

But there's nothing in it that's so definitive that it gives you hope. There's a lot of like ifs, decent enough players, interesting enough players, potential picks, and the picks are useful for exactly the reason you laid out JV. But at least with Jalen Brown, yes, he's a lesser version of Yannis, but he buys you time. Like that to me is the huge variable in what you're talking about. It's like, why do you trade Yonis for a worse player who's maybe a little bit younger? The answer is Yonis doesn't really want to be here anymore. And time will tell if someone like Jalen Brown wants to be the leader of the next version of the bucks or not.

but at least you have time under contract to make some decisions, to make some further moves, to like figure out what the next stage of this is really going to look like without the sentimentality that I think clouded a lot of the Janus trade like Odyssey to begin with. It helps that Jalen Brown is trapped, basically, which is always the funny thing about this. It's like, we need to get rid of this disgruntled guy who wants out for a guy who has no options and has to be here. Could we talk about the Celtics and all of this as well? because I guess I get it from a pure talent grab standpoint, like marrying Jason Tadam with Yana's two top 10 players in the league. Like, it's a pretty attractive option. I just don't know

how we got here so quickly. I guess like I kind of do because we just laid out like with Jaylen Brown all the difficulties he is as just like a personality type. But I left the season and even the playoffs being like, you know, injuries, but this team still has a lot of what made it good, the fact that they found so many interesting guys on the fringes. I know Brad's Stevens came out pretty strongly, basically being like, we're not good enough in his post game or his postseason press conference. He had that sad about like being three and 11 against the top three seasons and his conference. I get all that. But I didn't think that they were like light years away from leveling up and being on the same level of like, uh, Knicks, a Cavs in the East,

where they had a chance at it. And if anything, they basically did such a good job resetting to the point where they could add something else. I know they were in the mix for Visa Zubach, for instance, at the trade deadline, something like that to just add to what they have. I have to imagine that, like, they're just so sick of dealing with not only Brown as a personality, but perhaps just like dealing with all the struggles that comes with trying to bring out the best of these two guys as our pillars. Yeah. It took Drew Holiday and Christopps and this, like, awesome rock solid core that, like, played

the exact right style in order to hit the ground in 24 and win the title. Maybe it's just like, it was just so, like, exhausting trying to make this all work from both the personality and the fit side that they're just like, let's just do something different. I think that's the way to think about it. And I want to soften the like Jalen Brown as difficult personality stuff a little bit because to me it's less that he is uniquely challenging to work with or uniquely difficult. Most NBA stars are challenging in their ways.

They have certain demands. They have things that they want. I think the way you laid it out though, Justin, as far as like how much, how much work does it take to make this function at a potential championship level? And clearly it takes some work. Like it takes some work in terms of the personalities involved.

It takes some work in terms of the basketball side and building around, you know, Tatum and Brown in the best and optimal way and figuring out how to reload and do that yet again. All of that stuff takes a lot of effort and a lot of consideration and a lot of resources. And maybe at a certain point it is worth it for everybody just to move on a little bit and turn the page and try something new. I think that's a normal, healthy part of the team building cycle. And to me it has less to do with like, oh, Jalen Brown is such a challenge. part of this and more just these things run their course and this team has been good and they've been together and maybe they can be good and be a part and that's going to be fine too you guys like

either option more than the other like from whose perspective i guess from the team that is trading for yannis do you like yonis on the heat more than yonis on the celtics i like him as as a celtic a little more. Kyle, I mean, how are you feeling about it? I'm in the same camp. I mean, it kind of depends on how big a bite out of the Celtics roster they would have that, you know, the bucks would take based on what's there. I mean, I would like for like Derek White to be there. Although the Derek White part of this, I think when you're when you're comparing, why couldn't the Celtics have just kind of gone forward with the version of the roster

that existed, the fact that Derek White kind of turned into a non-entity on offense, at least as a score, I think is a huge part of why you can't just go business as usual for them. Yeah. Is that a blip or is that a trend that we think is like going to continue? I kind of feel like he'll, I feel like he'll come back the other way. I don't know. I've seen it. The sample size is so good at this point.

Were you going to say something? I think he's going to be better. Like he's going to shoot better almost because he can't shoot worse. But I wouldn't expect him necessarily to reach the kind of scoring and playmaking highs that he has earlier in his Celtics. career already. Like that that might have been kind of the high watermark for the version of the player he's going to be for this team and he's still going to be useful and he's still going to be an incredible defender, especially in helping off the ball. But expecting him to be a real deal

consistent score just might not be what his role is for Boston going forward. Yeah, I think the playoffs are really where it becomes a concern there, all of like the connective plus minus goddy traits that he has that, like, kind of support him when he isn't shooting well, I think stand out just a little bit more when you're counting on him to provide offense. And, like, he shot 33%, I believe, in the regular season. Yeah. Excuse me, yeah, 33% from three in the regular season. He was worse in the playoffs. It was, like, dreadful at times where you just couldn't count on him to hit shots. And that's just a critical component to, like, what they're doing. I agree with what Rob is saying. Like, I think he's, honest with the Celtics, obviously, there's just way more

talent there. I just find the fit a little bit less seamless. If only because, like, one, like, are you sure that Janus can play with another big? I think it's a little bit easier now that we're not in, like, the thick of the three-point boom. Like, teams are doing things a little bit differently, and you have so much support outside and the rest of the team with that. But there's still, like, some stuff to figure out there where it's just like, is he going to play center? Is he going to play next to Keda? Will you then have to trade for a shooting center? Is that going to be Nicola Jusevich. Like, is that someone you want next to Janus?

Because the whole thing with Brooke Lopez is he could protect the rim on top of being able to shoot. And so, like, I don't think it's as plug and play as you think. Whereas, like, Shailin Brown is like, that's the exact type of player you want in order to solve some of these issues you're talking about. And so if you're not taking advantage of the next year with Janus, you say we're hitting the ground running and we can win a title tomorrow. Then I'm less prone to, like, be willing to rip things up in the same way that it seems. that they're willing to with Jalen. Yeah, I mean, you'd have some questions to answer for sure. You'd have to go find something.

I mean, you know, Brooke Lopez is as much as people might not think that he, you might not think he's a super unique special player, but finding a guy that can shoot pushing 40% from three and protect the rim and above, you know, it's just those guys aren't, they're just not really out there. But I think if you look at Janus on the Celtics, I brought this up to you all over group tech. There are some interesting parallels that he is. the same, I didn't know if you wanted me to bring this one up now, JV, or not, but he's the same

age and about the same mileage as Kevin Garnett was when he came to the Celtics in 2008, which I find interesting. So you could, I know people kind of worry about his health style of play, but I think his style of play does feed into a lot of the guys that they naturally already have on this team. You're talking about just like the lesser, you know, role players that they've gotten a lot out of and elevated like the Baylor Shireman's or, you know, talking about the Sam Housers, Peyton Pritchards, guys who can just catch and shoot. And we know that Yannis just makes those players look good. Like, you know, Pat Connethin back in the day. It's just, he has a way of getting a lot out of those guys. So I feel like it would work. He and Tatum, there is the Tatum's on

ball style. You kind of wonder if there might be some parallels between the way that the, the Dame Lillard fit was a little sticky. Do you need a guy who like really readily gets off the ball quickly if you're playing with Janus? They probably have to figure that out. But I don't know, I don't know that it would even be all that much different than the like Tatum Brown kind of thing. It's like Tatum needs to play with somebody that is more deferential. What do you all think is the optimal state there and how much of a problem with that cause? Well, especially as far as the dame contrast goes, I think there's a different kind of pressure when it's like point guard and big. It's like, okay, they have to work together.

Throw them in the pick and roll. Like, what is their immediate chemistry? And when it's more wing and big, like, I don't know, there wasn't the same conversation about like, how are Paul Pearson, Kevin Garnett going to amplify each other? it's like more how do they function within an offense? How does it find balance and less how are they interacting in like a really direct way all the time in part because like if Jason Tatum and Janus run a pick and roll, most defenses are just going to switch that and kind of try to batten down the hatches

and hold on through your life. And maybe that'll work and maybe it won't. But ultimately, I think the reason I'm a little more bullish on Boston finding a flow within their offense that works is that they're really good at one, just ball movement period, like one of the best ball movement teams in the league last season, they're really good at fainting spacing even when it's not really out there. Like they create the illusion of spacing through their movement in a way that I think is going to be really challenging for teams to came up with if Janus is also a part of that.

And then I think Janus is just going to have to play more five as his career advances. That's going to be something that he's going to have to accept as much as anything. I don't know that he was ever going to get to that point of the bucks. There is that like mental hurdle when it's this is the team that I've been on. This is my team, my city, my franchise. I'm going to do everything on my terms. Sometimes when these guys go to a new organization, they're a little more accommodating.

They want to fit in. They want to, you know, endear themselves to the Celtics faithful, and they want to be a part of this kind of team and this kind of history. And so they're willing to do some things. They may have not, you know, been willing to do otherwise.

So I wonder, too, how much of this will be resolved by, you know, there's just a lot more space out there. If Tatum is at the four and Janus is at the five, and I would guess if things go that way, we're going to see that a not insignificant bit, especially in the playoffs. Yeah, this does feel. feel like almost like a tacit acknowledgement to Janus that the way he's done things, especially

last season where the Bucks basically re-tailored their team so that he was everything and went out of their way in order to go into extreme debt unlike we've ever seen before in order to just get him the type of big that he wants, that he needs to do things a little bit differently. Like he's still a superstar and things should still revolve around him wherever he goes. but like the dame situation leading into this now where like the offers aren't all that attractive just seems like he really needs to hit that next phase if only to avoid some of these injuries that we were talking about and only to make things a little bit easier on his life. I just don't know how much he could just keep battering his head into a wall year after year going into his 30s.

And so I think you're exactly right. I almost wonder, Rob, if he needs a Missoula or a Spolstra as much as he just needs a fresh start and new personnel around him. because it would be interesting to see him embrace being more of a five. I think with the Celtics, he could probably still have his preference of having the ball in his hands more than he's used to. Maybe in Miami, too. Like Miami, I guess I lean more in that direction. One, because I just want to see Miami back on the board.

I just think the league is more fun when they're, like, more involved in this thing. But also just like it feels like he could really energize them in a way. But it also feels like he's just going back to something similar to what he knows, where it's like Boston feels like a fresh new idea. I just don't know if he's accepting of that at this point. Yeah. And as far as the old idea goes, look, the reason we're having this conversation is the Bucks were not a good team last season.

When he was on the floor, they were dominant. Like even still, even with all those considerations, even with that supporting cast, like any team driven by Yonis when he is healthy enough to do it is incredibly competitive. And so the idea of whether you're throwing that version of that player out with the heat and Janus is willing to experiment and try some new things with the Celtics where he's recast in a new light with a very different kind of co-star, those are exciting possibilities for as much as we kind of, you know, rude talking about every Janus trade rumor along the way, like seeing him

be a part of an actually good team again. I think we'll be just refreshing for all of us. Another fascinating thing is that these are two teams that he could potentially go to that have spent a lot of resources trying to figure out how to stop Janus. That's why I always thought that the Sixers were an interesting possible in the past because if you just think about the binders and the like printer paper boxes of course we're talking about the digital version of that that these guys have just

especially spolstra if you just think about the amount of time that he has spent trying to stop Janice so he knows all that kind of counter factual stuff in his mind about like how we can approach using him but you're right Rob I mean like I just pulled it up because I was curious and it is going to be interesting

to see if he transitions away from this if you wanted to say like the okay, what was Garnett? Like way more stationary offensive player than a Yoness, not that comparing them is going to make it live or die whether it works. But his hard charging ball in my hands transition style yet 1.187 points per possession in transition as the ball handler, pushing 70% from the field, got fouled almost 30% of the time. I mean, he's still one of the most unstoppable transition proposition.

positions in the world. So, I mean, it'll be interesting to see if they can kind of take the pressure off of that and still get a lot of production out of him if he's more of a half court. You can't be ramming your head into the wall forever. You know, you only stay young for so long. Yes. I think just having like other players so that you can't guard him the entire length of the court so that you stop him from getting ahead of steam will go a long way. Just like getting to a new situation, having more talent, he'll be back on the map in that regard. Well, before we move on here. I kind of want to talk about like a subplot of the subplot going on here where I guess if the Miami package is accepted, it seems like Tyler Hero Mike has spun off. The pistons might be

interested there. Then there also is the whole like conspiracy theory that like maybe Isaiah Stewart might also go to the Lakers in that situation. And so I'm just curious overall what you guys think about Hero to Detroit. And second to all that like is this the answer for Luca with the Lakers? like we've been now two years into this whole mess. Like I guess it beef stew plus Austin Reeves plus maybe LeBron coming back like the best we're going to get in the situation. Well, where do you want to start, Kyle? You want to talk Pistons first or Lakers first?

How did we spin to the Lakers? Like them and the Yonis at sweepstakes? Well, Justin's driving the ship. Any road can go to the Lakers, you know? Like, what is this? This is just like, I would say this is the other story out there that's like a major thing going into the draft because I don't know. no, just like as I think through like all these teams that really need to do something,

it's just like, look, has been there for two years and we're basically being like, oh, they need to bring back Austin Reeves and then figure everything else out. I'm just like, why? How is this happening? Well, she's been there for like 17 months. Yeah, year and a half. And this is going to be the reality of the Laker situation is going to be one kind of piece acquired at a time in a lot of ways. And honestly, they got about as lucky as they were going to get in terms of like the returns on Marcus Smart, for example. Or even what they got out of DeAndre Aden, I would say was above expectation given the

player that he was in Portland. A lot of flaws. You almost got through the year with that with Aiton. They almost got there. And even then, look, he had some huge games that he had to show up for. So I don't want to throw DeAndre Aiden under the bus other than to say, this is going to make an incremental project, given where the Lakers finances were before acquiring Luca given the state of the team and how long this thing is going to take to kind of turn around

to begin with to reshape what kind of roster you want around him. It's going to be an Isaiah Stewart there, a Peyton Watson offer there. I just don't see things shifting so dramatically for the Lakers that all of a sudden they're going to come into next team and even then look like a fully formed Luca Donchich operation ready to go. Do you have to move past LeBron to really begin that conversation though? Because it just, I wonder if these two things are working against each other because you didn't expect to get Luca. You didn't expect to be in this position. It kind of makes me wonder if you got to, you got to move on, let go of one branch to really free up the resources to enable the other. Because, right? But he's also so much better than so

many of the alternatives. It's true. It is. But he eats up so many resources. And at this, at this point, you know, there are caveats with LeBron too. I mean, he is. I just, and there is some kind of dissonance between the way those two guys play. Granted, they can put up points. but it's like the defensive stuff that you have to, I wonder if it just makes more sense to just kind of move on. Yeah. That's what I'm starting to wonder if like the real logic behind trading him was to put him into this weird purgatory where although he'll just be like

just good enough for the rest of his career. He's still really good. I'm trying. I want to be careful to say that he's incredible. He dominated the first round. We went on and on about it on. No, it's more about like the construction of the team where. It's just because LeBron is so good, you can't really just like easily move on from him.

And because Reeves is coming into his own, you can't move on from him. Or just like, and if you try to trade him, like, what do you get back for all this stuff? It's just like, you're really just stuck in this, in this muck. And I don't really know how to get out of it. And I don't know what you would trade in order to get something good enough in order to put alongside him while still having the role players in order to put together in a good team. So it's like, it's like a multi-step process. then I don't know when it's going to start, and we're now two years into this

or 17 months or whatever you want to say. And it really hasn't started. Like they haven't turned the page to the Luca-centric team, perhaps spiritually, but certainly not functional. They have, I think they did to an extent last season.

And we started to see that shift as LeBron went into more of a facilitating, almost like supercharged Draymondi kind of role. Yeah, before Luca got hurt. Yeah. Honestly, an incredible blow to the Lakers that they didn't get to see

kind of that version of the team through to the end of the season and end of the playoffs. But I think this is one of those things where LeBron himself is probably going to have to put this whole exercise out of its misery one way or another. Either he's going to be a part of this or he's going to go somewhere else because the like Hall of Fame, Golden Handcuff situation you're describing, Justin, is so real and so potent. You're just never going to opt out willingly of, oh, we have this guy on our team who can

outthink everybody and also is an incredible playmaker and also even at his age can be a great like glue defender. He has so much going for him in theory and in practice. It's like, when are you going to get out of the LeBron James business? When are you going to sign up for that? It's an odd situation to be in, to be as fun as they could have been. And probably, I mean, it would have been really fun to see them in that next round if they had had Luca, who's tormented the thunder in the playoffs in the past.

And just, but then to also think to yourself like, this is really good, but we can't. I always think about, this is so we're in a bit banana grams that game. I think I brought this up before. You guys get at this game? My wife and I obsessively talk about this game. Sometimes you'll have all, you got to use all your tiles. It's basically like improv scrabble.

Yeah. And you have to like use all your time. And sometimes you'll get very far down a road and like your board and be like, I got a great board here, but you have like a few pieces. You're like, I don't think I can, and you have to tear down a pretty good board.

That's what that feels, this feels like to me. Where it's like the Lakers are like, Jesus, they could have given the Thunder an interesting series. I don't know if they would have beaten them, but sometimes you'll go far down a road. like you were like Rob was saying and just have to start over because the end or you stick it out

because it's fun. I don't know. It's a business also. It's it's tough. I'm glad I don't have to make these choices. You go so far down the road that you're talking about Luca when you started off at Yonnas. I didn't want to. I know. Well, I didn't want to belaborate. No, in my mind, they're paired because it's two players like that have been at the forefront of the league trying to figure things out this off season. It's the day before the draft. We're talking about the Lakers. We need someone to review the tape and see Justin's just in six degrees of separation to get back to the Lakers from any given topic is

do I talk about the Lakers a lot? I just make it seem like a forward all your garage LA radio guy here. It's not even that you're L.A. radio. I think it's just you see the red meat. The editor brain in you is like, no, Luca's right there. We could just jump over there and talk about Luca for a minute.

No, I think of the show is more like these are the things that we've been percolating on over until we record a next one. Like these are the two big stories that I have been spinning through in my brain. I don't know what the rest of the world is talking about. If that is just so happens to appeal to a vast number of fans, that's just my, you know, expertise just showing, I guess. You're just out there pruning the garden thinking about Luke Knard, you know?

I do think, I do a lot of that, unfortunately, which is probably explains a lot. Do we want to talk about hero quickly? Hero to Detroit possibility? No one's going to hear this part of the pot anyway. This is all going to be like in two hours. He's going to get traded. and we're going to have to redo this whole thing. But yeah.

How would that happen? I like that. I mean, what do you do with that right? I mean, I'm scintillated by the possibility. As far, you know,

Tyler here's a hard guy to find a good home for, right, to find the perfect combination of every factor of the exact kind of playmaking around him, the exact kind of defensive coverage, the exact kind of like potential pick and roll partners. Somehow Detroit has all of the stuff. And especially because he could wind up with,

you know, a Milwaukee team that may or may not be super interested in his services. Like, I think that could make all the sense in the world for basically everybody involved. Yeah, we're talking, we're writing about in the draft. They're trying to find that type of guy through the draft. And you're just hoping that one of these guys can elevate and rise to that level and help out Cade. But if you look at the way the pistons are built, it's like, okay, we have this pillar, this synergy between Duren, granted, everybody's got to hold up there into the bargain.

But we got this guy who can, you know, get in the paint and score. We can spray. we could score, we can draw fouls. We need somebody next to K to sort of lighten that, add some more oxygen to the offense. I think Hero would be actually one of the better options, I think, I really like that fit because you kind of let him be himself a little bit, too. We're like, you don't have the burden of being like our full-time playmaker.

Just go be cocky, audacious. Tyler Hero hit big shots, spackle when we need you to. I think that'd be an awesome fit. I mean, Tobias Harris was about as important to the Pistons as any player was to any team in the playoffs. So long as that is the case, Tyler Hero is a massive, like, schematic upgrade, skill upgrade. I think what he brings out in your offense is just so much more balanced and diverse. I think this is the advantage to having the context that they do have. And a lot of that stems from having such a giant creator doing things that, like, impacts the defensive end.

And also just having the defense around him is that they are a welcoming home for the type of players that I think a lot of teams overpay and probably want to get off of because they don't rise to the level of being like their frontline guy, the Tyler Hero types, like the on ball, juice guy that like might be a six man, but like we got to play him with the starters because that's just what his reputation suggests. Like if anything, they seem like the perfect recipient to that. And so like I still don't know why they didn't hit the button at the trade deadline, but at the very least they seem like they're in a good position this offseason to add. And it seems like there is a little bit of urgency

to what they're doing anyway. I mean, it would kind of be the promise of Jaden Ivy fulfilled. You know, if that wagon hadn't lost every one of its wheels and gone into the river, this is kind of what we dreamed that it could have been. All right, let's take a break.

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Like any second now. Okay, Twizzlers, time to keep the fun going. All right, the draft is hours away, less than 24 hours away at this point. Kyle, how you feeling? Just, you know, it's right on time. You just published a mock draft recently, almost at the finish line. What's going through your head right now? This is the time of the year where it's kind of like,

I said this to Zach Lowe the other day. You have a moment there where you're like, did I study enough for the, you know, the SAT or whatever it is, that moment of panic of like, am I ready or right? But really the work happens through the year and, you know, it's like the work's kind of done. Now we just need to see where the chips fall and, and then we react to it and see, you know, and just kind of cast judgment on who's dumb and who's not based on what on our short term reactionary kind of thing. And that's the way this works, right? We do it every single year. I'm not your editor, Kyle, but I got bad news. The work is not done.

You have a lot of podcasting and writing ahead of you. No, I mean, the preparation, Rob, that's what I'm referring to. We've watched all these guys unlike you. I value the year tomorrow. For some of us, the work is just beginning. You know, I'm still getting up to speed. And really, until I see some of these guys in Summer League, I'm not going to believe that they fully exist. Because to me, they will only be a YouTube sensation.

So we're nearing the point of these being real, corporeal NBA players. All right. Well, we're going to try to loop into the draft in a way that Rob can, at the very very least tolerate. Thank you. What we're going to go through is a couple teams that have big decisions in the draft, but also big decisions waiting them in the off season because they're in this weird in between ground where they have a high pick, but they're still built kind of more for

the now. And so Kyle is going to walk us through the pick for the team, why that would happen. And then we're going to get through some of the ripple effects that would come as a result of that. So why don't we start at number two, which I think is going to be the most interesting point of the draft. It seems like AJ DeBonsa more than likely is going to go number one. I think Kyle would agree he has him there and his mock that's out right now, which you should read on the ringer.com.

Number two, though, Kyle, I think is where things could swing. Do you think that the jazz go Camboozer or do you think if Darren Peterson is still on the board that they would go with it? I'll pretend to say this with confidence, but I think they're going to take Cambozer. This is very similar to the Palo Pablo or Palo Chet Jabo Jabari draft where things kind of went up to the last minute because we're continuing. to hear new reports about like, oh, turns out Darren does want to meet with the jazz or the jazz in New York, potentially work out with them. Hard to say. But we're going to go ahead and just assume that the Boozer connects in there, that, you know, the organizational taste historically kind of aligns with Boozer and just kind of go from there and talk about the fit of that, which is what we're doing here.

Right. So Boozer could potentially be the better player. It sounds like you have them number one on your board, And it sounds like a lot of people are coming around to Boozer late in the process being that guy. I think a lot of it's driven by the analytics. I think it's probably just like the more people dig into Darren Peterson, perhaps, are starting to like be a little bit more shaky on drafting this guy as high as possible. Do you want to walk us through just quickly like why you have Boozer number one and like why you would pick me even over to Bonsa? I'm always careful to correct people or eager to correct people, whatever we want to put it, that it's not just an analytics thing for me. because this kind of reminds me of the Yokch thing where I'm like, people just say that over and over again where they're like,

well, well, it's the analytics and that's all. It's like, no, man. I mean, like, people say that,

people get, people who think the Yokic supporters are weird, you know, often we'll throw like, you analytics boys, you know, you dorks and your indie rock band t-shirts that just like numbers. It's like,

if I, if you need numbers to see how good Yokich is or how good Kambuzer is, I'm just kind of like. You want some numbers? How about wins? Yeah. I'm just like, well, I'm just, you know, I need to take you to an optometrist is my thing. It's like he's, he's so good.

You watch a basketball game and he impacts it in such a wide variety of ways. You know, if he had been born, you know, if he were playing in the NBA in the early 2000s, would he have been catching, you know, a million postups like Al Jefferson or like his father, Carlos Boozer, who played that way? It would have been a little bit different. But his skill set is very wide. He has catch and shoot game. We talked about this on this show just this last week.

I think he's going to, he can add to your game without, he's, I'll put it this way. Among the top three guys, he's the least, like, I need to get a ton of shots up to be super effective or to get the most value out of me. He will, he is role malleable in a really mature way. He can score a ton for you. I think Boozer would also be content being like, all right, I'm getting 18 a game and seven assists. Like, he's willing to play however you need to play. And then the issue here, Rob, is that this is now another front court player.

after they just added one at the trade deadline. They were already a little beefy up front with the team that they already had. Ace Bailey also a pretty big wing. And so if you draft Boozer, you have Boozer, you have Jaron Jackson, you have Lowry Markanin, you have Walker Kessler, you have Ace Bailey. You also have a bunch of other draft picks that they're just kind of being like, these guys are fine. Cody Williams.

Cody Williams actually was like- Had a nice little pop, yeah. Yeah. So what do you do after that? And I guess how quickly do you need to do something after that? Like, do you make a move immediately? Do you take advantage of, for instance, Detroit would be very welcoming of one Lowry Marken, as we've been saying for years now? Yeah.

Or do you want to play it out, see things are happening? What in the draft room, if you were there, what are you recommending? Oh, I want to play a lot of it out. And some of it is if there was going to be a piece that would feel materially different after drafting Camboozer, it would be Walker Kessler. And we've already seen some of the numbers that have been percolating with his extension negotiation had five years, $140 million on the table, according to McMahon. That was not satisfactory to Walker Kessler in his camp.

I think the math on that changes a little bit if you have Kambuzer in house. The desperation to keep Walker Kessler changes a little bit. But you also want to retain him to potentially flip him to another team. So it's not like they would just cut base, not like they would trade him immediately. I think you can slow play that sort of process. But the size of Ace at the two, Lowry at the three, and a boozer Jaron Jackson front court

is very appetizing. Like I think that is an incredible kind of like allotment of skill and flexibility and mobility to throw out there all at the same time. Like that's a version of the jazz that if I were Utah, I would really be looking to cultivate. And Walker Kessler can be a part of that or not. And if they draft came, I would assume that over time it becomes clear

that he probably will not be a part of that blueprint. Yeah, I think the, interesting thing about taking Boozer here is that as opposed to taking Peterson is that you are kind of signing up for moves that you need to make or maybe a lack of a move with a Kessler. I still, the interesting thing between that has muddied it a little bit for me is like they are going to have to figure out the two spot. They're going to have to figure. If they want to go big like this, you're talking about a real lack of like off the drivel creation. Like you have Kiante. You can, are you going to play Kianti and Kahl? You're together. I just think you need to have a little

more creation at the two spot there. Maybe you use some of the leftover pieces that you have there. Maybe you can go get a Tyler Hero. I don't know to go with what we were talking about. But the argument that I made in the mock was that I think I would just kind of look at it as like this is a good problem and be like somewhere in this cluster of what we have is something that is going to be really valuable that we can kind of sculpt around. I think this the most simple proposition here is just like Boozer and Jaron Jackson Jr. next to each other is kind of. my starting point. You know, I'd love to keep Lowry around, but both of those guys can shoot it, so I'm not really losing front court shooting. That's kind of where I would go from there.

The Keontay Boozer, Jaron Jackson Jr., triumvirate, is something that I can really work with. And you're okay with playing Jaron Jackson at True 5, especially considering, like, you know, against like big old boys, which the league seems to be adding more of these days, especially with Wembe, terrorizing the league and teams like kind of building their, ourselves in order to counter him, like him being the five and also like the lack of rebounding that comes with it. I guess from a talent standpoint, yes, like Jaron over Kessler is obviously a clear winner there.

I just don't know fit wise. Like there's a lot to work with. And I like the fact that they would have an identity of being like the biggest, baddest team like across the board. But I do wonder if like threading the needle seems a little bit more difficult than perhaps like just like, yeah, we'll just go with this guy over this guy, you know? Well, especially there's a version of having a bunch of size on the floor that just makes you like the Orlando magic. You know, it's like, yeah, you're big and you're tough, but you're also kind of awkward and inflexible as a result.

And Kyle, I think you're right to single out the ball handling in particular. If they do have designs of playing ace at the two and Kiante as their kind of go-to point guard, their offense is basically like Kiante and the blunder. Right. It is him initiating a lot of stuff off the dribble and the ball movement and the spacing resulting from those other guys creating offense for you. but maybe that works and maybe it doesn't. I think it depends on how heavy the stakes are for the jazz in the immediate future. Given everything we've seen from them and their willingness to be very patient with every single, sometimes excruciating step of this process, I would think they're going into this season trying to feel it out more than anything,

trying to understand if that Jaron Jackson-Cambuzer combination can be one that will work full-time. And that's yet another reason why you don't cut bait on someone like Walker Kessler immediately. but again, you kind of tease that into the season and you work all three of those guys into your front court together. But as far as other moves they could make too, I think if you do draft Boozer, you probably do need to make like one veteran free agent wing signing of a kind. It's just like those guys are so young and so unproven in some cases. Like I like Bryce Sinsibaw as much as anybody, but I think you need somebody who's a little more seasoned and you can bring off the bench in like certain alternative situations who isn't like Svi. You know, like I think you need something else there. But if they were going to end up with the Darren Peterson in this spot,

they might desperately need either to bring back use of Nurkich as a backup center or a use of Nurkutch alternative. So you can see kind of the downstream stuff as far as their bench goes with this pick as well. Yeah, it's interesting. You were talking about them like staying with like excruciating. The jazz, their like commitment to stay with the excruciating bit is like Neil Hamburger level. Like it's like what, man, we are really sitting in this in this for a long time. A couple kind of pro arguments to kind of say, to answer what you were saying, Justin,

about like the rebounding stuff. Like, you're adding an elite rebounder and Camboosur. I think he's going to cover a lot of the sort of neurotic things about the way that Jaron Jackson plays that will help. And another thing that's working in your favor here is that Jaron has kind of developed to the point where he can kind of drive closeouts a little bit. He over the course of his career has started to drive the ball a little bit more. So that would differentiate them a little bit from the Orlando Mazzar.

kind of thing there. And then, but yeah, you're right about, like, weighing it against Darren is like, so much of this is sight unseen because last year, the lineup that they ran out when you said Svi, it reminded me, yeah, it was the heaviest minutes lineup that they ran was Kiante Svi, A, Slauri, and Yuse of Nerkich. So we're really seeing a lot of things for the first time here. I would be really tempted. I know I have KAM mocked here, but I would be really tempted to just roll out Peterson

there because that just, that would immediately make sense. That basketball team, I think, would be a playoff, a lower-seated playoff team immediately. This is just the unfortunate part about going out and doing the Jaron Jackson trade when they did, where it's like you almost feel locked into thinking about the fit more than you probably would at this point because you have all this stuff here. And it is tougher to get like the exact fit you want once you've already had the names on the paper

in order to make all the math work and all the actual finite, just strategic stuff. stuff work. The other part of this is just like the money is starting to add up very quickly. Like in two years. So once Keonté George presumably banks an extension, he's like up for it and he's going to have it lock in then. You have Jaron Jackson making 51. You have Lowry making 50. Kessler's going to be making what, probably 30-ish around there. George like probably 30 to 40 million at that point. Like I was trying to approximate it and like Jalen Green for instance is making 35 on an annual value if George has a goes out and has a good year to kind of build upon last year. Like all of a sudden like you're getting more than that.

We're already talking like pushing 200 million just with those guys alone. And then you add in another high draft pick. And the problem with the high draft picks is they're coming in with pretty sizable salaries at this point. The number two draft pick last year, Dylan Harper makes about 12 million. So this isn't the type of thing where it's just like you're waiting for those guys to assert themselves and then they make the money. They make a pretty good salary just from the.

start. So there's just like a lot to figure out sooner than you hope for. But I am coming around to the basic logic of drafting Boozer. If only because like if you think he's the best player, like there are options for you still to figure this out. Yeah, I think especially for a franchise that is so desperate for cornerstones even still. Right. Like Keonti George popping was such an important development for the jazz because it was even just the hope that hey, this is a guy who could be around here for a long time. He could be driving offense for Utah on the ball. off the ball, even off the bench, whatever his long-term role ends up being, but could really be a part of this. And like, whatever you may think of Darren Peterson, there are so many questions swirling around him that just don't really seem to be there with Camp Boozer.

I understand all the arguments with Cam about his athleticism and how that factors into the NBA and what he will and won't be able to do as a pro. I get it. He just feels like a safer bet for a team that yes, needs stars, but needs like a safe bankable star bet. And maybe Darren Peterson is that, but maybe he's not. depending on the eye of the beholder talent evaluation wise. Yeah. All right. Want to move along here?

I have up next the Clippers at five. Kyle, who's the pick? The pick is Keaton Wogler. The justification for this is, I mean, it's been hit ad nauseum. It's just if you're in the Darius Garland business, which they've chosen to get into, that kind of scratches off a lot of the options on the board because, you know, you don't want to really go in with a huge exacerbated guard defensive. issue here and the guys that kind of fall into that category of like, I don't really know why I would

do that would be Darius Acacup, Michael Brown is offensively, you know, he has a lot of defensive problems. Kings and Fleming's LaBaron Phylon, Christian Anderson, Abuco Corey, on and on and on. We're out of the small guard business. Keaton Wogler is 6-6. I think he projects as sort of a guy who will sort of straddle the line between some primary stuff. I don't think he's going to pound the ball and play pick and roll the way that he did at volume at Illinois, where he's just kind of like pounding it surgically finding his spot. He's capable. I know Rob, you've seen him a little bit. He's one of the dudes that you have bothered to see.

He can kind of shoot the ball. He can play off ball really slick with a lot of that stuff. So I think he and Garland, you'd still have defensive issues because you're wispy, your light, you're more skill-driven back court. But I think that he would be the pick if you're going to decide to keep a guy. There's all kinds of permutations where they don't keep this pick. But assuming they do, I think Wogler's the guy. Well, to me, the other part of being in the Darius Garland business is you need somebody

who has that on-ball, off-ball flexibility you're talking about Kyle, but you also need somebody who could potentially fill in as a primary when Darius Garland is inevitably injured. I mean, it just kind of like happens. He picks up all these random ailments these days. So the idea that, okay, this is a secondary facilitator who makes sense kind of patiently working off of Darius Garland, working off of Kauai, whatever the near-term vision of the Clippers ends up being, but also could take over some of those responsibilities when you need him to. That, that to me is very appealing. I guess my question overall, Kyle, is how much of the logic for this pick is just that Wagler would be the best player on the board at five, because there's a clear tier at four,

if anyone hasn't been following the draft, and then there's just all these guards. Like, would you pick Wagler for the clippers in a vacuum? Or are we considering the Garland fit? And how much should we consider the Garland fit at this point? Like, is he the guy that is ultimately just going to be a stopgap? Or are we thinking going forward, let's extend him, let's, let's make him a part of whatever is next. Wogler is very good in his own right. If you wanted to just pivot away from Garland and say like, you know, there's, and there have been worries about Wogler's athleticism, about that he's a slow-mo guy.

I think we've seen enough in today's day and age that you can play that way and be an effective lead guards. You don't need to be, you know, putting pressure, like dunk pressure on the rim every single time you come down the, down the court. I have, I mean, I've gone all over the map with this pick in terms of, of guys that would fit better if I'm trying to build a playoff team. One of the ones that I've circled back to over and over again is Burrys. And, you know, one of the first mocks, I don't know if you remember it.

Was it the first one where I mocked Burry's there? And that was mocked in the comments a lot. I got a lot of just like, you fucking idiot. There's no way the Clippers would do this. And then, oh, lobehold, the reports come out that Burry is being, yeah, anyway. I know I did this on last week. Take that. You fuck.

No, Kyle, talk your shit. You got it, you got to swear when you can. I it's just we go into the playoffs and we do this thing every year where we're like okay well the upside of him scoring and his pick and roll and his shooting and blah blah blah blah blah it's like we just do all that it's like and you get to the end of the year and it's like all that stuff was adorable but it's like when you get into a series where you're being picked at over and over and over again would you this is this is a classic like tray young derrick white thing that we talked about that we've joked about a lot where i was like Derek white upside on ball and stuff like that no not necessarily tray young's upside is higher on that that that that you know, type of thing. But is Derek White going to get picked on in a playoff series? That's what we, we have to have like winning, driving our mentality whenever we talk about these guys. And that's just my problem a lot of time where I get off course with people.

So I've considered Burry's there because I think he's a better two-way player. I think he's an encapsulation of what we were talking about there. I think Wogler's going to get better defensively. It's just he's one of the other guys. I guess it kind of comes into a question of do you want to, the guards are sort of the implied players there. Do you want to reach for a Marez Johnson? You want to reach for a Yaxilinda Borg that

high, these more playoff ready players? That discussion, I think it gets a little rich to reach for those dudes there. That's kind of where I am. Well, with that guard debate, too. That's a lot, I know. No, no, no. I think there's a lot of food for thought there, as there should be with the clippers in their situation. Like, they have one of the

stranger circumstances to kind of fall into this pick in the first place. And where they want to go if they do draft a guard, I think not only shapes how you think about Darius Garland and the future of the back court, but what happens with some of these other guards on the roster too, right? So it's like if you if you do take Wogler, Chris Dunn is extension eligible. And to me that is like a no-brainer. Like you should try to get Chris done under a couple more years under contract because his defense is going to be even more important

plying off of both of those two guards and kind of alternating backcords. But the other huge piece of business that the clippers have is Benedict Mathurins restricted free agency. And if you do end up going more defense first with this pick in terms of like, you know, someone like Burry's, for example, is the math on mathoran even stranger in terms of you're willing to invest more than, say, the mid-level or a mid-level adjacent salary for a player like that? Because you need his punch off the bench maybe a little more than you would have expected to otherwise. It's just going to affect the rest of the shape of this back-cord rotation period. And with two of those guys kind of up for financial consideration, I think we're going to see some of the effects pretty quickly.

I think the clippers are just in the unfortunate situation where they have no other choice but to build on the fly and just to keep doing that and keep stacking good moves because they just don't have their picks until I think they don't have it in control of it until 2030. And so I would like to say like lean into Kauai's last year and just be the best team that you can be. But I also don't believe that because I don't know how that's going to happen. And I also feel like that already has such a defined ceiling to begin with. If anything, it feels like they're kind of stuck in the situation they were after trading Chris Paul and they got all this stuff back. And they just have happened to overachieve, they got Shea in a trade, and all of a sudden, they eventually spun that

off into Kauai, but like, if you could just be good enough and keep getting steadily better, and like, if Garland, for instance, doesn't totally fit, let's trade them a deadline from now, right? Like, just basically, like, trading out parts here and there, as opposed to, like, forming the Megatron from the jump. I just don't see another path forward at this point. I also think even within that, yeah, it's a little haphazard, and there's going to be some fits and starts as far. as building the next version of this team, it still feels really exciting to me, right? Like, Darius Garland getting a chance to kind of reframe

who he can be as a creator without some of the like guard-to-guard overlap or obstruction, however you want to think about it, of what he was going through in Cleveland. I want to see what that version of Darius Garland is. Yonit Conan Niederhauser, when he comes back from injury, oh my God, just like absolutely popped in the middle of last season. I want to see what he looks like for a completing version of this team.

And now you're bringing in another potential guard to work alongside those guys. There's just like another wave of clippers coming up that I thought, to be honest, we were going to have to wait like four or five years before they found those sorts of players again post-Kawai. And to have them here during this time, yeah, it's a little like two timelines-ish in terms of what they're trying to balance. But I don't think they have a lot of alternatives to what you're talking about, JV.

They do just have to take these things as they come. And as they're coming, they're at least bringing in like good young players in the door who are going to be interesting for the clippers for a while. Can I ask a quick question? Just a real jumping off for the Clippers is we keep talking about this. Like it's an immediate, I even did it during this conversation where I was just like, well, this has to fit with Darius right now. Are they a playoff team next year? And how much is the like urgency of win now driving this? Because if you think about the fifth pick, is it, is it worth it to take a Wogler? If he's going to be your second unit guy and get those, let's just say he's that. If he comes in and he's the guy who,

who maybe you stagger a couple of the starters with some bench guys and then Wogler takes over as the main guy. Is it a failure if you take the fifth pick and he's kind of for two or three years playing in that role? Or does he need to, if you take him at five, is like, we need this guy to come in and be a star like immediately. Like how, I guess where the clippers are and whatever this timeline there on is drives that, I would think. They were 20 and 15 after trading Hardin in Zubach. And so, like, they were pretty okay. I think it just really, like, lays on how okay are you with being pretty okay is, like, really the ceiling for this team. And, like, if you think that's a good thing that, like, the expectations are low, and we're just going to have as much fun as possible

and we'll go from there. Then it's fine. Otherwise, then it can get pretty bleak pretty quickly. But I just think whatever pick they have should be thinking about first year Shay is the goal, where it's like he does enough to be a contributor. to a good team. Play some defense, move the ball, be a connector, do whatever you can on offense, and we'll deal with the future down the road.

Just be like a contributor to a healthy environment, I think would be a good start for the others. And then eventually he becomes the best player in the world. Well, I was going to say, but that was also like the fourth, what, 14th pick, I guess, you know? I'm just asking you,

is that a little more stomachable than if you take Shea at five and then, you know, I guess that's what I'm wondering, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, they luck to this pick to begin with. So I guess it's all found money to a certain degree. All right, hawks are up. Pretty active in this pre-draft, pre-free agency sort of period here.

Aaron Wiggins for two seconds seemed like a no-brainer. Like, just have to be able to accept the salary and give nothing back to the Thunder. Done. C.J. McCollum, $21 million for just giving it to the Knicks. Really bought them some leverage there. But at eight, they have a nice little opportunity to add a good player. Kyle, who do you think they should go with for their pick? There are two train tracks ahead of the Hawks here, and there are people who think that they could reach and address their rim protector, defensive anchor thing. They need another quality big, but I think it's a little rich to reach for Ady Mara here,

based on, I do have some kind of questions about his craft around the rim in terms of a score. There's the minutes, the volume of minutes kind of thing. There are just kind of outstanding questions for me. I think it would be really, really beneficial for them to go with a drinkster like, you know, Kingston Fleming's who is the fastest guard in this class. I think he's tougher than he gets credit for. I think he's super smart. I don't think he's a bullheaded. Like I just have to pound the shit out of the ball and score all the time like a Colin Sexton type player. I just think about him adding to the already kind of established really great defensive perimeter personality of this team, already an incredible in transition group, very physical. He would elevate those things and make them, that's the pick that I have projected there for the Hawks at 8 because I think that he would do great in Atlanta. So, yeah. Yeah, this feels like you made this pick to appeal to me personally. Like the idea of putting in Kingston Fleming's

with the Nikiel, Dyson, Daniels sort of like hellish perimeter rotation. I mean, really speaks to me. It really speaks to my sensibilities. And I think if we're talking about how do the Hawks get to the next level. Clearly, they need more independently driven offense, right? Like, we are, we are getting post flow into, like, who has the shake off the dribble. And that's somewhere where, you know, Aaron Wiggins, for a guy who's coming in off the bench, potentially, like has a little bit of that one-on-one offense that could really help them. Hopefully, Kingston can give them a dose of that, too, but without taking away from all those other defining attributes of what made the Hawks so good down the stretch of last season and

makes them still so interesting going forward. I think the question might come down to whether or not they should make this pick to begin with. Like, are they so far along that actually we should be looking to spin this pick and not take a young guy into just a veteran player because we show that we're at a certain level, especially late in the season and pushing the next to the only team in the playoffs that actually got two wins on them? There's a popular rumor about maybe trading this pick for Trey Murphy. I think that would be great, if only for the comedy of giving back the Pelicans their pick. for one of their best player that seems like everybody wants. Incredibly mean. But also, I think it's the type of guy that they need because he's young,

still has more in him that perhaps another team could unlock, but he also allows them to level up. And so like that just is more of a timeline fit than someone like Fleming's you might need a little bit more time. Kyle, what do you think about that? Like, would you rather Fleming's because of the fit? Or are you thinking like the Hawks are in a different phase right now? I think the fit is great there.

You know, if you think about a Trey Murphy, how much does that affect sort of the strength of the thing that you already have? Like, do they need to change their perimeter core? Because bringing in Trey Murphy would change the – you've already got Kuminga coming in that you're trying to figure out how to play. Granted, the Pelicans might want Kuminga knowing them. But I just – I think Fleming's – there's a hole on their roster that he fits into really well. And I think if you think of people worry about the small guard thing, it's like, no, I mean, like in Tuesday, six-foot-three. maybe he doesn't have the longest arms in the world. The jump shot isn't pure, but he's like a shot maker.

He tends to, he's very, very fast getting to his spots. I think the wide open nature of the NBA game, he is going to pop even more, I think, because it was definitely a cluttered offense with bigs that had very narrow. The two bigs for Houston were limited in their own ways in a way that really kind of hurt Houston spacing this past year. And Fleming's was still really fast getting downhill. So I think if you think about the way, the hawks are built. I just think he would really, he would really help them. And another quick thing about the defense with him is, if you're a small guard, the things that you can do to bridge the gap

and make you less of a liability, which Brunson has kind of figured some of these things out is that he is really bullish and aggressive in his like helping and retreat kind of principles. He's really competitive in those areas. I think Kingston's going to figure those things out. I would like him with the hawks. So I think he's a good enough fit that I would go ahead and take him here. Yeah, for as much as Trey Murphy could help the hawks, I'm not so forward pressing on the timeline for them. Like, Jalen Johnson's 24 years old. You know, like there is time here to bring along another college or college age prospect and hope that they can be a core member of this team for the foreseeable future. There's nobody who's like really on the advancing side other than

CJ that you're really worried to have to replace. And even he's only on the team for one more year under So to me, it feels like a really natural handoff point for them to bring in another guard who, yeah, maybe coming off the bench for the course of this season, but then could eventually take over the reins and be a critical part of driving the offense. Yeah, I thought their biggest issue last year, especially in the playoffs, was just the depth. And it seems like by adding Wiggins, bringing CJ back, maybe adding Fleming's, maybe adding somebody else, the very least they'll round out the version of the team that they have now. Trey Murphy, as good as he is, seems like he's more of a finishing piece to an already established core versus what the Hawks. where they really just like don't know who they are right now. And if anything, perhaps I want to save my powder and like if I need to trade Fleming's, like wait for it to be like a true blue superstar who is like a clear like companion to Jalen

Johns and not just someone who augments him. They don't have their pick next year. It goes to San Antonio. That's like some factor. But I think they're already going to be so good that it doesn't really matter to begin with. So I agree with Rob. I think they just kind of take Fleming's and go for it. Yeah.

I mean, they also have the 23rd pick to play with. And they could flip that into another veteran. guy potentially a big i mean we talked about that as far as what this team really needs like i thought a congou really proved himself as a starting level center for most circumstances but mo gay as a backup five like asa newel will see if he's ever really fit to kind of play that role for them i honestly don't know um they just need like a little burl there and all of their alternatives you know the jock landale uh tony bradley types like all those guys are going to be on the open market and for agency this season. I think it makes all the sense in the world for them to play with the possibilities and not

back themselves into like the Jock Landale corner just because like see what's out there, see what you can drum up, see what team might need to get out from a center's contract to make the moves that they want to make. I think there's an opportunity there for them to do something and maybe it comes with attaching that 23rd pick to make it happen. I don't know. Yeah. All right. Two more here. Dallas at nine. And before we recorded this, they just got a new head coach because Rob refused to take the job. Dusty May, who just sounds like a Dallas coach, like a Dallas sports coach. It's like Jimmy Johnson.

Jimmy Johnson was like, he's from Arkansas, so I could get it a little bit more. But like, I know Dusty May is like an Indiana guy, but Dusty May just feels like the type of gun slinger who just doesn't take no for an answer. He is an Indiana guy, but he's absolutely also been the Cowboys quarterback coach at some point in time, right? Like maybe not up for the head job, but a positional group without question. Yeah. Kyle, really what do we think about this guy? Yeah. Incredible climb. I mean, Dusty May, I had it pulled up here. His coaching history is really wild. I mean, he just, he started out at Florida Atlantic, I believe in 2019, just built that program from nothing, had them in the final four, goes to Michigan, has success, wins the title in year two. He's just, I don't blame him also for getting out of college basketball,

because it is just an absolute train wreck mess right now and dealing with that headache. So, but I think in terms of, if you're the Mavs, um, I think this guy has the right temperament to coach an NBA team. He can like chew,

he can chew on that ass when he needs to. I've seen him get fired up and, and get on guys, but he also is very mellow and kind of level most of the time. So, and I'm sure that, you know, that I'm sure they vetted this with Cooper and,

you know, talked about it. And I think, I think this is a great opportunity for him. and I think it's going to work. I like it. And it also opens the door to like, is this going to open the door to maybe you taking one of the Michigan guys at that spot?

So it's interesting on that level too. Well, and just continued signaling that the Mavericks have the right priorities in place after not for at least several years there, right? That this is going to be a longer term process. This is going to be building around Cooper that this is a program, right? That you're trying to cultivate and build from the ground up in terms of personnel,

in terms of culture, in terms of all those things. and in doing so, I mean, not only do we just not see many college coaches jump to the NBA at all anymore, although as you're alluding to Kyle, maybe we'll see more and more of it as they get frustrated with the ins and outs of navigating the transfers and everything going on with NIL right now. I was trying to remember any coach I could remember winning a championship in college and then immediately going to the pros because this is usually the time where you squeeze, right? It's like you flirt with the Lakers or whoever and then you sign the like insane extension. Like this is just what happens But like Well Billy Donovan right

Signed up with the magic And then and then aborted But then he went back to college Held the ball in the picture Which is wild And I think he was rumored to even be in the mix For that job again Which would have been a real coming

Coming full circle moment Well I'm glad you brought this up though Because there really are so few examples of this When I felt like when we were younger This was happening a lot And it was more about like Taking the cult of personality and bringing it over to the NBA

and maybe leveraging that for like for gates, like for receipts. It's really Brad Stevens, Billy Donovan, and then on the bad side, John Bayline and Fred Hoyberg. Horberg wasn't bad per se. He was just like, fine. He got dealt a pretty weird team there.

I do wonder like not only because NIL perhaps in the rigors of the job in college might force guys to think about this more now, but is there any opening considering the way the league is going where someone who's maybe more strategically aligned. For instance, like, I thought that would have made sense a lot last year for a guy in Yukon just because, like, his system felt a little bit more sophisticated than what was typically running college.

I think it would have applied a little bit better to the NBA. Is there more, Kyle, like, there's more reason to go to coaches in college than ever before? I think there's a differentiator there between, like, Hurley and May in that I still think Hurley is a little bit from the last generation of coaches of traditional sort of crack the whip like coach really hard. His style, the motion kind of approach. It's just so it's a different type of a buy-in. I think I don't know that it would have poured it over to the NBA super, super well. But another difference too is you talked about Beeline. You talked about Donovan, even reaching back like Petino and Caliperi going to the NBA. Those were guys who just, it's a little different, I think,

with Dusty May because he is a part of this new ascendant crop of coaches that are in the college ranks that are so analytically driven that are just forward thinking that I think it makes sense for him to sort of leap. And he's thought of one of the more progressive basketball minds in the country. I know he had a team that just basically had the most like old school bludging you to death with size kind of thing. But he's considered a forward thinker. So I think that he'll on that front just be jump right on the the spinning, the already spinning merry go round of the way the NBA runs now. It does seem like a tough thing to navigate, though, for a lot of college coaches.

And I think the Fred Hoyberg example is kind of instructive of a guy who could walk into a college system and just have an authority based off of that rank alone. And you can, you can talk to players a certain way. You can deal with them and address problems in a certain way. And then you go to the Bulls and you have to like manage a locker room with Jimmy Butler. and Rajan Rondo and Dwayne Wade, it's like you are just in over your head so quickly. The difference is like,

I think if you are of kind of the Dusty May mold, it's a lot of your currency comes from, yes, you've done all these great things in college, but you come in, it's like, if you're helping guys, whether it's helping them win, if that's the goal, or helping them develop,

if that's the goal, players respond to that kind of thing. More so than just like, you know, being the big swinging dick college coach who can just like throw your weight around in a locker room, it's so much about like, How do you appeal to these players on their terms in terms of what they need from you?

And it does seem like he might have the right kind of temperament and approach for that as much as anything. All right. So they have number nine in this draft. Kyle, do you think this affects anything that they're going to do? Not only just because obviously he comes from Michigan, you have Maris Johnson, you have Mara, you have all these guys in there, Lindenborg. But also, like, do you try to lean more in direction in terms of like stylistically anything you might want to do? it did come to mind to me that I've made this parallel on a few different shows now that Linda Borg in particular is a guy that we've discussed who has a really wide range of

offerings he's 24 years old there's people who are worried about that but started late I compared his developmental arc and path to pascal siacum who started late and just sort of like rocketed upward you know he just started getting he just his rate of improvement started as a late teenager in a way that yaxels did but there's been like maturity concerns with with Yaxel and how he interviews and things like that. You know, less we forget, the guy who drafted Seacom is now, you know, involved with the Mavericks.

So I just, and if you, if you wanted to think about a situation that could absorb, somebody in those concerns about Yaxel, who is a very good player, does all kinds of stuff. It does kind of seem like the Mavs are increasingly a candidate to do that. And I think it could play with Cooper and give you a little bit more passing. He can play with anybody.

But, so there's that. I don't know if it, necessarily means they're going to reach for like an Adymar. I think it's a little high for Mores in terms of the type, the player type, even though I love Mores. I still have Brayden Burry's mapped there because I think that he would be an excellent companion with Cooper. I think he'd be a great two-way player. I think that he'd give Cooper a shooter out there. He's a guy who can run some point guard and still allow Cooper to kind of take the majority of the reps. I think that he's an excellent

sort of tanned up like a pairing there for him. So yeah. I still think that that's probably who they should take. Yeah, I mean, the consideration for the Mavs is who fits with Cooper Flag, who makes sense long term with him. You want to prioritize the talent, but you want to at least have a vision of how it might work together. I also think for where the Mavs are, having someone who, I don't think Dallas has any urgency to trade Kyrie Irving right now and nor should they, but having someone who can handle on the roster so that when you get to January and February,

if it makes more sense to trade Kyrie Irving then, you don't have to like scratch, ramble and reconfigure everything you're doing offensively. It's like, oh, my God, we have to get another guard in this deal because we literally don't have enough infrastructure to allow Kyrie to leave. That feels like the kind of freedom this team could really use right now. And frankly, I think is a broader philosophy, getting the level of depth that lets you let go of Kyrie and PJ Washington and Daniel Gafford and some of these like vestiges of the last version of the Mavs, that's kind of the position that Dallas is in right now.

Have you guys been following the reunion of the 26th, Cavs title team that's been happening, I believe, in Scotland. Is it in Scotland? It's somewhere like that where they're basically on a big old mega rich guy golf outing. Is it making anybody else feel old? Those pictures are making me. It's been a decade.

Kyle, it doesn't take anything to make us feel old these days. I get up off the couch and I feel old. Granted, those guys are like kind of my age, all of them. Yeah, I was looking at those pictures. I was like, damn, it has been a decade since that happened. Wow. Not only does it make you feel old. But then you see guys like Richard Jefferson trying to mind it for content where he's doing like Instagram TikToky memes based off of those guys all hanging out together.

And I'm just like if it has a real like old guy still trying to get after it sort of vibe. And I was like, oh God, time has just slipped away from me, hasn't it? I mean, well, we are the old guys still getting after it in our way. So I hope it's still allowed. I hope it's still a thing that we can do. What did it for me was Dave McMeneman was posting some like flash. photos to that 2016 run and just seeing LeBron who looks like a totally different person physically. Like in terms of his frame, his build, like he, I mean, he looks understandably.

It was a very slim fit era for sure. And it's just been a long time since we've seen that LeBron. That's all he's doing great at 41, but, you know, it's a different time. Yeah. And they were like, the parade was like, they were just in like flatbed trucks too in Cleveland and like in comparison to what was gone on with the Knicks where it's just like, Fat Joe had his own float, seemingly. Every person had their own, yeah, I was pretty amazed by that.

Mitchell Robinson had basically a monster truck that he was riding around. That is his style. I think he has several of those somehow. Pretty crazy. Well, I was just like, if you're in a neighborhood with a lot of little kids, I hope Mitch is riding that thing pretty slow. Because I was just amazed that the kids were like under the frame of the truck. Like they're at their standing height.

I was like, hope we got some speed bumps in that neighborhood. That scared me. Yeah. There were a lot of health issues going on. for that Knicks parade. I don't know if you guys saw some of those, but there's a lot of shit going down. Like, congrats to the Knicks.

Liver damage health issues. I would say just the absolute basement of foot issue related content. Just we got to get out of the gutter, guys. Like, what are we doing? Okay. Last one on the board here. Golden State at 11.

Kyle, who's the pick? Give it a little jingle. This is, this is a tricky one because I want to get your all's perspective on this because I think you kind of have no choice but to approach this as we can't go pure upside like this guy might help us someday. You know, I think you are, you know, I know, Golden State fans are probably going to wince when they hear this, but you're going to have to have a two-timeline thought process with the one person that you take in this situation.

And somebody that's going to be able to give you something now and then be a part of whatever this next, you know, I said in the guy here that like Steph is pushing 40 years old. This can't go on forever as much as I enjoy seeing them do another run potentially. I have Adai Mara as the guy that they pick here. And my reasoning is in the immediate term, he's fucking gigantic. I think that he's that, just put him on the court. You got to avoid him. He's big.

Gives them a rim protector, gives them some depth in the, you know, the Frenchman dominated looming kind of thing going on in the Western. conference. You get some Porzingis insurance in the short term in case he's in and out. We could kind of have both of them go. And then I also think offensively he fits the way they play. Very, very good passer for somebody his size, for any size. He's a great passer. And then, you know, going forward, you've got a seven foot three guy who potentially could turn into an above average defensive anchor in the NBA. So that's my thinking. What do you all think about that mindset with this pick? I don't have any objection to the mindset. I just like, what?

is this front court? Like, what is, what are the warriors going to do where there's, you know, there's rumblings that they want to bring back Chrisaps for Zingis. We'll see if that happens or how much he's able to contribute or just like what his state is, generally don't know. Dremont Green is obviously at a very peculiar place in his career in terms of what he gives a team and where he should be playing in the lineup and how. Al Horford is a player option and could just like bolt out the door at any time if he would

like to. And honestly, the best versions of this team are still the versions that play like, Moses Moody or Guy Santos or Jimmy Butler when he's healthy at the four to begin with. And so I'm a little worried that, I mean, look, the warriors have lots of problems. They have lots of limitations. They're banking on aging stars of various kinds for a one last ride kind of thing. But as far as they're bigs, there's a little bit of like, if they draft a big here in particular and then also have a lot of these kind of old timers or guys who are not as available as you'd like,

like where is the Goldilocks zone of this is an actual good player who can play 70 regular season games and give us good minutes at a time where we desperately need it. Like this is, there is no longer the luxury of just bringing in 16 game players anymore. It's like, how do we get through the season alive? And then if you do and Steph is in good health and playing well, how can you maximize it going forward? I have no idea how they do it. Are we past the point of James Wiseman-induced PTSD of like reaching for the big?

Because I felt like we got to the point where we move past it and like, oh, we're actually at our best small ball finds energy. Let's just go to what works. And then they bring back Christops. And then you bring up Mar and I'm like, it would be great if they were a little bit bigger and had something a little different than they're used to in order to counterbalance

all this other good stuff that they have. But just like the fact of doing that, I almost feel like they move past it. And so I don't know like how to feel about just the idea of going big at this point, especially because as Rob is alluding to, like they just need good players here, which is becoming increasingly difficult

because they have so much money tied up in Jimmy Butler and Steph Curry. And also if Draymond is coming back. And then because they're also like trying it out there being like, oh, let's go after LeBron. Let's go after Kawhi and just be like the expendables. And so I just don't know how all these things fit together. Is it acceptable to draft a backup big that could play in a playoff scenario at 11? That's the question you got to ask yourself because, I mean, I think so.

I mean, if he's going to hold up in a playoff setting and then eventually he could become the starter. because I think some of the on-ball sort of guys, they're risky. I mean, if you think about taking, like, you know, some of the guys that are mocked in this range, I mean, Dailen Swain is a guy for Texas. He plays for Texas, but I bet Rob has never even heard of him. We're seen him play. Like a big guy, a six-sevish guy who can really handle the ball,

but it's going to be dared to shoot. So that's going to be like, I don't know how that's going to work in the playoffs. Defensively, with like a Cam Carr, he's going to get attacked. all the small guards, those are non-starters, as much as I've mocked Blabarin Phelon there before, but stylistically, I don't know that he fits the Warriors. You'd hope maybe the long term he could play. That's my kind of thing there.

It's like, I think in the short term, taking a backup big who can help you in the, and it's not just Wimby, it's the other big teams in the West. Sure. I think having Marr would be a helpful thing to have on a playoff team in the short term. So that's kind of, that's why I'm thinking that. I think that's the issue with the like, how should the Warriors play big versus small debate?

it's less about like what is their optimal version and just more accepting the reality that draymond can't do that all the time anymore alhorford if he's back certainly can't do that all the time anymore so they just sort of need size by default unless you have another anomalous playmaking for who can play the five just like you can find under a rock somewhere like they they just need something a little more conventional in a bunch of different respects they need some front court size they need just like ballast on the wing i'm not really sure where they're going to find it especially if like d anthony melton's another guy who could just kind of walk out the door if he would like to and i think there's a lot of winning situations that he or horford could potentially sign up for that

would be more promising than gold state we'll see what they do maybe they just like being around and being a part of this team but also i mean even if the the on ball options are a little dicey as as you mentioned kyle they just need somebody who can initiate like you can't put step through the meat grinder of this through yet another year and jimmy butler hopefully being out there and healthy for a good portion of that will help, but you need more than that. Like, they could really use another guard one way or another who can actually drive something on offense. Yeah, I wonder if there's a way to split the baby here, whereas, like, if Mar is the extreme,

we're saying we're just going to get the biggest old boy and perhaps it could be a nice little counterpunch, like, are the yaxels, the moreazes, like, do they have the girth and, like, the physicality that could bring something different, but more in, like, the four, three mold? And obviously, like, while still having more upside, I think the unfortunate thing is they didn't get higher in the lottery because you get a guy like burries for instance where it's just like you kind of unleash him in that sort of shay role that we were talking about before just let him do work and then just like develop from there like to me that is what they need and I almost feel like

maybe what they shouldn't be doing is like trying to chase after 40 year olds in order to get even older and like make next year the only year that matters at the very least like pry open like move up in the draft pry open something and like maybe just like try to get a two three year run going here, but they're in a tough spot regardless. I honestly don't know what they do from here. I'm not sure there are two, three-year runs. I think if you're a Golden State, every year is a one-year run. And it's just like, what can you do?

What can you roll out there? How can you make, you know, Steph and Draymond and Jimmy Butler and Steve Kerr's life a little bit easier in the process? We'll see what they have in the books. All right. Well, we wrap it there. This is a long one. But, you know, it's that time of year.

There's just so much to talk about, including the Lakers. we'll be back on Wednesday after the draft recapping all of the most important things that happened. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. We'll talk to you next time. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation

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