The Ringer NBA Show - Is Giannis the Best Player in The World?| The Mismatch

Episode Date: December 20, 2019

The weekend is here, and we are here to talk about the excellent face-off between the Lakers and the Bucks. We discuss whether Giannis Antetokounmpo is the best player in the world (05:56), focus on the short-handed Raptors (36:26), and look ahead to some of the exciting Christmas Day matchups (39:05). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by the Google Assistant. The Google Assistant is ready to help you get more done with just your voice, in the car, at home, and everywhere you take your phone. You can personalize the way you interact with the Assistant to help with everyday tasks. If I say, hey Google, remember that Kevin O'Connor is KOC. Then when I need to call them on the phone quickly, I can just say, hey Google, call KOC. A little help, hands free. Just say, hey Google, to get started.

Today's episode also brought to you by State Farm. Just like basketball, the game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a State Farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws your way. Unexpected like Janice Antecoon Poulin threes from everywhere last night. He's pulling him from 30 feet against the Lakers. Get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today about combining your home and auto insurance.

Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. Bernie Vernon and joining me as he does every Friday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k, Kevin O'Bomber, A.K.K.m. A.k. Kevin O. Kavanaugh, Kevin O'Connor, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, Kevin O'Kri-Kle. Kevin O. Burdow, you got energy this morning. I'm feeling it. I'm ready. Yeah, you know, I actually, I loved watching those basketball games last night. And now we're about to be headed into the Christmas break. But before we get to any of that, I know you're very grateful for this holiday season back at home, but yesterday you tweeted out. I'll tell you this, Kevin, God bless you.

You have had a hell of a 2019. And you've been very open about all of it. We know about your father and the cancer diagnosis and then the dunked on cancer and all that charity and everything that did so well. And you've been keeping us updated on him. But now, mom? Yeah. My mom had to have open heart surgery on Tuesday to have a,

bicuspid aortic valve replacement surgery. We knew for about a year before my dad got diagnosed that she added some type of, you know, issue with the bicuspid valve, which is in your aorta. But it went from like minor to severe in like a year. So she had that replaced on Tuesday in Boston. And the surgery was success. And her recovery is going well so far, which is great to hear. And I mean, it's interesting because it's.

the doctor the doctor said like her aortic valve was working so hard that her heart was starting to get like enlarged slightly hardened which is something that like we've heard about in the NBA with like enlarged hearts that some athletes have and I never heard about that with like a five foot seven woman but um she's been this year just a absolute superhero she's always been the best mom that I could ever ask for but this year she's been a real superhero taking care of my dad with cancer and it sucks to see her rewarded at the end of the year with having to get heart surgery but um i don't know it just kind of like is another way of looking at just how hard she's been working taking care of her husband so hopefully for her this is a brand like a brand new

heart and she has full of energy in 2020 and i i hope next year's better for our family than this year's been but ultimately though chris it's like you know you and i talking about this throughout the year like you and i sometimes touch on our own personal lives and just with me running the article with my dad and like, you know, sharing this about my mom, the amount of people who reach out and are open and vulnerable and, you know, are just spreading love. Like that feels good. And like despite all the bad this year that's, you know, happened in my personal life,

there's still so many good little memories that we've had, you know, along the way. And that's because of like you, you people, the listeners sharing your own stories and reaching out as well. So that's made this year very meaningful for me. And I'm sure it has for you, Chris, well. So I just wanted to say thank you at the end of the year to everybody for help and make this year special despite how difficult it has been. Yeah, thank you to all of you. We got super, there's a, you know what, and it has been a tremendous reminder. And it's, it's a shame

sometimes it takes struggles to see, but it's been a tremendous reminder that generally people are good. And there's an awful lot of really nice, caring, empathetic people out there. I think we can get caught up in this, you know, not to get long winded yet, but you can get caught up in this bubble that just seems like constant negativity, right? And people complaining about things and people being mean to each other about things. And yet you see when push comes to shove and there's somebody out there that is hurting, the level of outpouring, it gives you a lot of confidence that there are so many good people out there. maybe they're just not as vocal all of the time about the good.

And a lot of people that are very caring, very empathetic. And I think, look, I see it in my own life and I see it when it comes to you regarding things that have taken place over the course of the year. And I'm glad that all that surgery was successful. And here's hoping mom and dad can end up having an awesome Christmas with you. And then we head into 2020. Yeah, time to turn the page to a new year and all of our personal lives and also in the NBA calendar as well, another big year ahead. I'll tell you this, Kevin. I got really excited last night to watch that game between the Bucks and the Lakers.

Though they had both dropped games right before so they weren't on crazy wind streaks going in, it felt like maybe they both lost games going into that looking ahead to this because everybody knew this is going to be a premier matchup. and it is possibly an NBA finals preview when you get to see these teams. And they're only going to play twice during the year. And it was the first Thursday night that we had without a football game on. So this was going to be center stage. And it looked there for a while. I know NBA is always a game of runs, but it looked like for a while, certainly after the

second quarter, that the bucks may drill them like they did the clippers when they caught them at home earlier this year. But this turned out to be an extremely entertaining basketball game with a ton of stuff that happened. Do you look at it and say this was more meaningful than just a regular season game? Or do you look at it and say, look, in the end, this is a regular season game. So let's not draw too terribly much from it. I think it's a little bit of both Chris and that it's one game. But the Bucks have now beaten the rockets on the road.

They've beaten the Raptors. They've beaten the Clippers twice. They pummeled Indiana earlier this season. They beat Utah. They've beaten now the Lakers. So this is another sign of a team like 25 and 4 now. Best record in basketball is that not only the sure they'd be taken seriously is just perhaps a finals contender, like we thought going into the year on the same level as the Sixers, Lakers, Clippers.

but maybe this team is a hair above some of those other teams because of not just Janus. And every single night, this guy is an absolute freak. He does something special. At this point, it's a broken record to talk about how incredible he is as a player. But we saw the depth of this roster and how they can match up against the team that is tough to match up against in the Lakers. Davis and James have caused so many issues for opposing. defenses the season, as they did for the Bucks, because that's what naturally happens. But we did see with Lopez and with their switchable wing defenders and somebody like

West Matthews, who has been very good defending on the ball this year, the Bucks have the, the weapons alongside Janus to be a team that could dictate matchups and defend itself against tough matchups like a LeBron, A.D. Pick and roll. Yeah, you know, shout out to West Matthews, by the way. I'm glad you brought him up because I'm watching him last. He was great. And, you know, he got the huge contract despite the torn Achilles, and he's not been the guy he would have been, like reaching his death. And he could have been. I know that that last healthy year, Dave Yeager said that he thought he was one of the best handful, like you could count on a hand, how many two guards in the league were better than West Matthews, because he was that sensational of a two-way player. And he was drilling threes on a regular basis.

and, you know, he's never going to reach whatever that pinnacles. But this tells you how damn good the guy was because he has come back from Achilles and you watch him last night and he is just ultra solid, ultra solid. And part of big winning right now. And you got to remember the bucks, say whatever you want. I know some people are more down on Bledsoe than others, but they weren't down a starter last night.

You know, Divencenzzo started for them last night. So Bledso wasn't in their lineup. and when you talk about that level of depth that they have, I think the reason this one mattered so much to me to watch this is you wanted to see, you know, like you said, the Bucks have beaten all those teams, but are the Lakers the team or who's the team that can kind of match up with all of that and also maybe just be a bad matchup for the Bucks?

Like who are the team that it's just a bad matchup? Sometimes teams can be great, but another team can play against them. and they've just got some, the things that can cause them real, real problems. And last night, I mean, you see Janus, he's shooting from 30 feet. He's crowning himself. He had all this swag. Oh, that's great.

And that depth that you talk about, that depth shows up because I'm going to be honest with you. Anytime LeBron wasn't on the court, the Lakers are just not good enough to compete at the highest level. I know that sounds simple to say. But there are some of these other teams that their star can rest, and they can get by. They look okay. And I know that in the playoffs, you're going to play a million minutes, but geez, man, it was almost every time LeBron wasn't on last night. I was like, boy, they better get him back on the court because they are not deep.

They're not, especially without Kuzma. Sure. And I thought in last night's game, some of, look, Rondo has been better than people expected this season after they paid him nine, 10 million dollars over the summer. He's been better than expected because of his playmaking ability. but last night Rondo was in total eyesore on the defensive end of the court on offense when he was spotting up on corner threes the bucks were helping off him completely clogging the paint on LeBron drives on AD drives and that was hurting the Lakers half court offense never mind like I said Rondo was being was so bad on defense and with the Lakers you mentioned well the bronze off the court that's where

Rondo has been helpful because because of his playmaking ability but I do wonder in certain matchups where you have 80 playing 43 minutes, LeBron playing 37 minutes, and come playoff time, maybe those guys are cracking 40 minutes that's in certain series. At that point, maybe Rondo isn't the answer for the Lakers bench unit,

and you do need to increase minutes of a Bradley or Caruso, or maybe it's just going to a guy at a different position. Last night's game, I thought for me was a bad look for Rondo on both ends of the court, whereas the Bucks just up and down their roster, or guys just fit into place around Janus, who, by the way, I know I just said, like, it's a broken record for us to, like,

just continue heaping praise against Janus. But in last night's game, though, hitting the five threes, oh my goodness, man. And some of the threes, we talked about this last month. He's hitting those one dribble pull-ups, pounding the ball with his left hand and then going into a shot. He had one last night off the right hand. He had some off of multiple dribbles,

dribbling the ball backward from inside the three point line. Oh my goodness, man. Scary. Yeah. And I was reading something this morning and it was about his percentages. I don't have the numbers right in front of me. But as I remember reading this article and it was saying he shot like, you know, 17% and then he shot like 30 something percent.

And now he's been shooting over 40% this month from three. Like if this is, if he's going to be hitting. threes at let's just even let's just even put him in the 30s right at a reasonable rate he's shooting in the he's shooting in the 30s to where that is an effective and dangerous shot and you just can't sag off of him i mean forget it i mean that there is there's just nothing you can do against the guy because that was like his numbers right now is up to 34 percent so he's shooting 34 percent from three right now. And all I'm saying is the way it used to be was your chance was to back off him. And you'd be like, well, thank goodness. At least we got him to, at least we got him to shoot a

three. Like, we'll take it. Same way you did with the LeBron. Same way you do it with Westbrook. Like, you know, you feel like they're kind of bailing you out if they take threes. But if that's not going to be the case and you can't just leave him the room and back off of him? Oh, Lord. like, then what? I mean, he's only playing like 20-something minutes a night or low 30s right now. I mean, so he's doing everything he's doing while only while playing less than many of his peers. In fact, the number is 31 minutes right now. He's playing 31 minutes a game.

And he's putting up 32 points a game. Just to put it into perspective, you mentioned Janus's three-point shooting numbers before this month. he had shot 22% on catch and shoot threes, four of 18, and 23 of 76 or 30.3% on dribble jumper threes. And since December 1st this month, he's 7 of 10 on catch and shoot threes, 70%, easy math. And then 14 of 37, 37.8% on pull-up threes. And the majority of the threes he's still taking come of the one dribble

variety or it's multiple dribbles and he's shooting off the left hand. But it does seem like, and this was my point in the thing that I wrote about Janus's shooting last month, he's getting progressively more comfortable. What happened this season and towards the end of last season was getting comfortable shooting off the left hand. But if he continues adding and he becomes comfortable off the right hand or he becomes comfortable off a crossover from left to right into his jumper, whatever the move may be, list anything you want.

That's when we're talking about a guy who, like last night, was putting the crown on his own head. That's when he can take that leap to becoming the indisputable best player in the league. Right now, it's still arguable with LeBron James, even after last night's game. It's still arguable. But moving forward, if this shot continues expanding and he becomes a more dynamic player,

as you just touched on right now, yes, the best thing a defense can do is sag off and still force him to make a three. But at this point, he can make those people paying. Like, if you step up on him, it's still an aggregate loss for the defense. Because if you're contesting that shot, what's he going to do? He's driving and he's taking one dribble and he's dunking or laying the ball up or drawing a file or kicking it out for an open three-pointer from a knockdown shooter. It's still a loss for the defense. you're still better off making him shoot.

But it's getting to the point where like you're screwing yourself by not contesting him. So what do you do? What do you do with the honest at this point? I don't know. I don't have the answers. I don't think anybody has the answers. And here's the and here's the wide view of this, Kev. So the first five seasons, he shot 28% from three. Okay. Then through the first three months of last year when he won the MVP, keep in mind, he shot 15% from. from three. When the calendar turned, when it became January 1st, from that point on, he hit 32%. So the number doubled last year once the calendar turned. And then as we mentioned so far this year, he's shooting 34% through their first 29, 30 games of the year. And so this number

has ticked, you know, if we, a year ago, we're doing this. And it's not in his repertoire at all. it's six he's hit 16% for three months for three months and then he went and became reasonable you know 32% is reasonable and now it like what what's the trajectory though are we are we going to look up and this guy is is shooting threes at like a real clip like I mean look the the timeline if you're if you're taking it from afar you look at like where the number was and where the number, it's this slow progression to getting better and better and better at that. It's obviously something he's practicing all the time. And I mean, forget it. This guy, this guy is, I mean, it's historic what he, what he is already doing and what he can do.

Because when you extrapolate what he is doing, because you got to take it into consideration, he's playing less minutes than some of these other guys that are, that have better stats than him. Yeah, and that was the thing I looked at last month on the ringer. Since Christmas last year, and this number is slightly better now because of the percentages this month. But since Christmas last year, he's been shooting 41% on three-pointers off one dribble. Before that, the rest of his career, it was 23% off of one dribble. And the majority of those where the one-dribble jumpers off his left hand transferring to the right-hand for his shot. And what he has gotten better at since even last Christmas is when he's dribbling

three, four, five, six times. But he gets into that same motion with the left hand into the right hand. But if he can expand further from that, I don't know what you do as a defense. And it's, again, it's at the point where if you can test that shot, Yannis has the move where if you step up on him, he has the look like he's going into his shot, but then he just drives right past you. And it's scary and he was right to put the crown on his head last night he should feel like the best player in the world and we're nearing the point not there yet i'm not ready to go that far but we're nearing the point that it'll be the truth that yannis will be the best player in the world we're getting close chris we're almost there i think he is right now i'm sure there i told you there's a lot of people who would agree with you a lot of people we i mean look he's got to win huge i mean that is the that is the step but that's coming that is coming that is coming that is coming that is coming coming because you watched last night. Who do you want him to face? I mean, he's facing LeBron and Anthony Davis on the same damn court and doing what he's doing.

Like, who do you want to throw at him? There's nobody that's going to be better than that to deal with him. He is just, he's spectacular. Now, here's the thing, Kev. I did think this. So Davis went off after halftime. He was okay in the first half, but I mean, I think he had 28 of his 36 in the second half. I mean, he really imposed his will and started getting to the free throw line all the time.

If we're looking at the long view on this with the Lakers, because look, when they've got LeBron and Davis on the court, they're devastating. And they are going to have those guys for big minutes when it comes to playoffs. But who's the third guy? If we've learned anything from history, you generally, you've got to have that third guy, whether it's, you know, last year, Lauri will have some big games. See, Ackham will have some big games. Like, there's always a third wheel. that's getting stuff done for you when you, because we talk about this team as a possible championship team.

Who's the guy outside of Davis and LeBron that you count on the most? Or do you think they're going to have to count on? Danny Green was good last night. Is it, I mean, I feel like it's probably Coosma, right? Who's out of the lineup? I would hope it's Danny Green as your 3-and-D guy who, you know, defends some of the opponents, better players who hits spot-up threes for you and reliably just spaces the floor for LeBron

and AD. It's Danny Green in my eyes, but I think you're touching on that guy who steps up as the score more so than just the all-the-round guy. And in that case, this is long my issue with Kuzma. He's more like that spark plug. A lot of people think of spark plug guards, point guards, shooting guards as guys can come off the bench, but he's a spark plug forward. He's a guy who some Knights is going to be a, you know, maybe a negative overall player for you. But there are nights he can pop for 25, 30 points and swing a game your way. And thus far this season, that hasn't really happened like it had had last year for Kuzma. Naturally, when he had more opportunity, when he wasn't dealing with injury, when he was playing far more minutes, getting far more touches. But you do hope for

the Lakers this season that Kuzma can get into that rhythm at some point over the course of the season and become that spark coming off the bench for your roster that every championship typically needs. Yeah, well, because that is the juxtaposition of these two teams, right? That if you feel like with the Lakers, they're going to have to have somebody else that can go 15, 20, because what the Bucks have is a bunch of guys that can go from, they're going to get you 10 to 15 points.

That's what they're going to do. And none of them scoring 15 would be, if I told you Eliasova scored 15, you'd believe it. if I told you George Hill, which he did last night, or, you know, even Kyle Corver one night might get you 10 to 15. And then you've got all those guys, West Matthews, Brooke Lopez, Middleton, who's better than 15. He's more towards 19. Devencenzzo. But the Lakers.

Corver, one thing, I always remember Brad Stevens said maybe four years ago, Corver might average 12 points a game, but you need to defend him like he averages 35. I just want to point out because of his shoe. stretch the floor, yeah. That always sticks with me. Well, and that's the thing with the Lakers. It's like, who's that other guy that when you get to the biggest games of the year, which last night was a huge game. Like Danny Green had 21 and Caldwell Pope had 18.

But over the course of seven game series when teams are planning against you, you know, there's only like at best you're getting like maybe you're hoping for a combined, God, I'll even go high on this. 55 to 60 every night from Davis and LeBron. The way the league is right now, you got to add up to get to 110. So you've got to find the way you're getting the rest of the 55 points on a given night. I don't know, man. At least last night, it wasn't persuasive.

They're their team. They just don't have, they ain't got that much that I feel all that confident in. stepping up for me. Their bench is better than it showed last night. We're talking about this. Everybody's talking about this. The morning after their bench had four points. It was the worst.

I know. The bench had more turnovers. Rondo alone had more turnovers with five than the bench had points with four. The bench was horrific last night. Alex Caruso is a better player than he should. But I don't need to see their bench versus Charlotte. Like I don't give a shit what they do against them. I do need to see it against the bucks and what it looks like.

I know it's ridiculously small sample. You know, those are the best teams playing against each other. And I think the other side of this, and this sort of also leads into Rockets Clippers, I do think a team deserves credit in fighting back when they're down big on the road. Lakers did come back and get that came closer towards the end. As Houston did against the Clippers, they just happened to come back with the win. No, that's totally fair. And, okay, let's get to that Clippers Rockets game.

This was clearly a Russell Westbrook night because there are times where as many people as can get down on him, he can just absolutely impose his will on a game. And you got the best of Russ last night in a game that, you know, weirdly Hardin only takes 16 shots last night. But it just feels like sometimes Russ, I know he's got the time. turnovers, but it feels like he's playing at a different speed. And there's just times in those games where you just feel like he is, he's the guy. And even in a game that featured Kauai Leonard and Paul George, there was just no taking your eyes off him. Yeah. And last night's game was one of the best examples of the season will probably see of the higher up side he can

bring to the floor over Chris Paul. I think there's an argument to me made. that Chris Paul, if you add up all the games together, it could be equal or near equal to as a point guard as Russell Westbrook. But Westbrook does that have that higher sailing that he can reach where he changes a game where he's getting to the rim at will, like he did it at certain points of the game last night, either in transition or in the half court, even sometimes when defended by Kauai Leonard and stellar defenders,

he was still getting to the rim. He has that ability where he can raise their ceiling as Daryl Moore, might say increasing their risk profile, increasing their variance and what they can be as a team. Because that come back last night was pretty sensational in that third quarter, obviously mostly driven by Russell Westbrook. I do hope for Houston, we see more games like this from Westbrook over the course of the season where Westbrook and Hardin can find better balance because you can't have Hardin doing what he's been doing so far this season through April into the playoffs. There needs to be nights where Westbrook carries this team and these guys are able to

balance each other out from now until then when the postseason gets going and then things get really serious. Yeah, he made some big shots and he had 14 in the fourth quarter did Westbrook. He also had another tense night with Beverly who got ejected with a little less than three minutes remaining after receiving his second technical. And then Westbrook was given a technical for taunting Pat Bev as he was getting out. I mean, we need this come playoff time, don't we? We need this. Oh, by the way, Lou Williams also

that needs to be mentioned. Lou Williams also ejected from the game. I mean, the Clippers just totally lost their composure last night. It's weird. I feel like Rockets and Clippers cannot have any normal games. It's just part of the rules. Yes. Something weird needs to happen.

We need another tunnel fight. Oh, look. This Beverly Westbrook thing is great. with Westbrook calling him an overrated defender. You're getting thrown out of the game. I mean, by the way, I mean, I don't know what the, I mean, has Lou Williams ever been thrown out of a game? I can't imagine.

Like, he just is not that guy. He's not a hot hand, right? And so he obviously felt like it was egregious what was taking place against him. But that's, as we know, one of the major, major advantages for the Clippers. and Lou Williams only playing 17 minutes by virtue of getting thrown out with 11 minutes left last night. Because when him and Montrez come in the game, there's nobody in the league that deals with that well. Nobody.

Their pick and roll is just beautiful. But like you said, with Lou Will out, that means more is on Kauai and Paul George, naturally. And we did see last night, PJ Tucker against Kauai Leonard was just absolutely. sensational. I mean, the defense he was playing on Kauai and denying the ball, fighting over screens to prevent switches. Oh my goodness, man. That's, that's some of the best defense we're going to see the entire year. What a display from PJ Tucker, who, by the way, has never been an all defensive player for a number of reasons. You know, maybe it's minutes. Maybe it's because the team defense has not been as great.

but individually, PJ Tucker put on an all-world, all-world defensive performance last night, and I think he deserves to be in that conversation as an all-world defender and as a guy that gets honored with all defense at the end of the year because of games like last night. That was awesome.

No, and it takes that kind of a game, right? Where you're on a massive stage and people like wake up to it and like, good grief, this guy. See, the problem is you can watch the random huge. Houston game. They're certainly that second half. They're locked in. If you watch the first half, you're not walking away going anybody on that frigging Rockets team should be all defense. I mean, they'll dick around in the first half a lot. But that second half, when it was time to lock down and it's time to make some plays, they did. And that's, so that's what I'm saying.

There's there's, there's too many Rockets games that you can watch where it's not just PJ. Like even if PJ was individually playing great defense, they'll let you score a lot of points. And so it's hard to gauge until it gets to these nip-tuck games and you watch him in big moments versus the big stars. And you realize how good he can be when they're locked in. But that's not a totally locked-in defensive team a lot. Sure. It's hard to make all defense on the freaking rockets. I mean, we saw that possession.

I think it was maybe two, two minutes, three minutes left in the game. Tucker fought hard over a screen set. by Montrez Harrell and he was kind of like just jabbing at the ball Kawhi was possessing and knocked it away and then Tucker clapped his hands KG style while Kauai ran back and get it and watching that you know it's a reminder of his versatility he can defend the players like Kauai Leonard those beefy six eight wings he can switch on to the larger bigs like Anthony Davis and battle on the post he can switch onto guards like stiff curry and defend on the

perimeter. Tucker has immense versatility to defend any type of player on the floor. And that's what makes him, last night's game, the best defensive player on the floor and one of the best defensive players in the entire league, period. Do you think the Rockets are going to be better with the Westbrook version than they were with the Paul? Because by the way, Chris Paul's had a hell of a week leading two comebacks, first versus the Bulls, then versus the Grizzlies, to let, to remind everybody. Andy, Andy bought his whole team suits,

which was a nice touch. You know what I mean? Steven Adams in the suit. But do you think, do you think that this team has a higher ceiling and will be better than if they would have run it back like it seemed Dantone wanted to do? Yes.

Not because you put Westbrook versus Paul in a vacuum, but because this is the real world and Hardin and Paul didn't like each other. And the chemistry, the human aspect matters a ton. And in that sense, it's pretty clearly that Houston is better off now without Chris Paul because of the relationship aspect. But if you're playing 2K, maybe you're better off with Chris Paul. But we don't live in a video game here. So they're better off with Westbrook because of the personality factor. And that's why they had to make that deal.

That's why they had to give up those picks. Because you weren't just trading for Russell Westbrook. You were trading for the happiness of James Harding. in too. And that's why they had to do that in addition to the raising of their ceiling, increasing their variance, however you want to put it, Houston raised their ceiling with Westbrook. And they would hope that pays off on a seven-game series against whoever it might be in the postseason. Thankfully for them, thankfully for them, like Clay's out, Curry's out. They can move forward this year and not have to worry about going past Golden State in the postseason.

And of course, they have more difficult foes, potentially, with the Lakers and Clippers. But without those guys, that's been their crimson night, of course. The good thing for Harden is when it comes playoff time and everything gets real tense, unlike Chris Paul, Westbrook's such an easygoing guy that probably won't yell in the locker room or anything. Yeah, yeah. He's just so easy to get along with. You see last night, his reporter asked him about, like, the, uh, him having like a tarnished relationship with Katie or whatever.

And, and Westbrook's like, what are you talking about? I, I, I don't, I don't have a tarnished relationship with anybody. That's, media's always trying to stir stuff up. And I'm like, dude, you had cupcakes, put at your party on the 4th of July. It's a shot at KD. Come on, man. Stop. Come on, Ross.

It was a very, it was a very fair question that that reporter asked. Media is full. It's always. All the media's fault. Yeah. All right. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we do have to talk about some injuries that have taken place over the course of the last week.

A potential number one draft pick that we won't see in college basketball and some other stuff. We'll do it after these words. This NBA season, Mountain Dew, is all about the threes. The shot that's changing the game. And last night, the Rockets beat the Glippers, 122 to 117, like we were talking about. They only shot 37 threes. the same number as the clippers last night and hit a lower percentage. They're still able to come up with the win.

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And you never like the word behind it, which is indefinitely. They host the Wizards tonight, but they have announced that Gasol, Seacom, and Norman Powell are all officially listed as out indefinitely with injuries suffered in their win over the Pistons on Wednesday. Ciacom, who's averaging over 25 points a game, sustained a stretch groin after an awkward landing. Powell sustained a sublixation of the left shoulder, and then we've got Gasol with hamstring. So who knows? I mean, look, you never like indefinitely behind them

because it makes you, I know why teams do this, but it makes you conjure up thinking of the worst. This is a hell of a thing to have to deal with for, I mean, look, you lose one of them, okay, but losing Gassalciakum and Norman Powell, I guess it's all going to depend on how long they are going to be without those players, but this is not great for the Raptors right now. I'm losing track of all the names you just said. All I know is that I'm excited for the OGN and Obie show. No, I'm serious. I'm looking forward to seeing what OGN and Obie can do with

increase opportunity because without the guys out that you listed, more is going to fall on his shoulders and there will be opportunity for him to do more on the ball, I would think. But beyond Ananobe, maybe you see a guy like undrafted rookie Terrence Davis come off the bench and get more minutes than he's received and he's done very well with the opportunity provided. For Toronto, this is still, even with the injuries and like this could really knock them down from being in the conversation for the two seed to maybe being smack in the middle four or five. But I'm still looking forward to seeing what some of the guys can do in this team. They have a lot of young talent.

And for Raptors fans, I think that's the silver lining here. It's seeing what guys can do with more opportunity. Just like in the past, you saw the flashes of what Siakam could do when Kauai was out or in years prior and showcasing some ability beyond being a role player. So what can Ananoi do? what can Terrence Davis do? What can these young guys do with more opportunity for the Raptors? I'm excited to see it. That is coming from a hardcore NBA fan.

That is for sure because I've got to imagine, there's not a lot of ESPN people's executive sitting around going, you know, these Christmas games, we got Raptor Celtics starting the day. Really excited to see what Terrence Davis and Oce Anatovi can do. I mean, this, by the way, Christmas Day. is an unbelievable day for basketball.

It's one of the things I really look forward to. But these games have outside of Buck Sixers and Clippers Lakers, both incredible. I can't wait. Raptor Celtics has gotten ruined, possibly, certainly. Warriors Rockets, terrible, and Pelicans Nuggets. Like nothing worked out. Nothing.

because of these raptor injuries except for the middle of the day game with Buck Sixers and Clippers Lakers at night, which will be amazing to see those two teams playing full strength against each other. But those other games, holy mackerel. And I'm sure we'll talk about this on next week's show,

but those two matchups you mentioned could be playoff previews, or Eastern and Western Congress finals previews, perhaps. Oh, no, those two are great. I mean, but I, and I know, But you've got to be really looking forward to seeing what Eric Pascal can do against the Rockets on Christmas Day. I mean, like, who gives a crap about the Rockets Warriors?

That's terrible. No, I mean, sure, for hardcore NBA fans tuning our team tuning. I am a hardcore NBA fan. If that game was on league pass, I wouldn't flip it on. Well, I mean, if the Rockets were playing the Warriors in my backyard, I don't know if I'd raise the ball. Oh, boy. Come on. I don't need it.

I mean, I know I already know you hate watching Houston. So, I mean... Oh, and the Warriors, they're a bag of fun right now. Yeah, of course. I mean, without Clay, Stiff Carrey, no, the Draymond. Of course, I mean, Draymond being the only guy playing, sure, I can understand. But there's still some interesting stuff to watch. Daniel Russell, I mean, will it...

for hardcore NBA fans. I had to finish my sentence for hardcore fans. Oh, so you're really looking forward to that Nuggets Pelicans game too? I'm on the East Coast, so I will probably be sleeping. 10.30 is past my bedtime on the East Coast. Oh, okay. So you're going to be sleeping for that one. Yeah, yeah.

All right. The original point was this is now going to be, you know, a tough road, at least for a little while when you're losing all those guys. those are major, major pieces. You're taking 25 points out of the lineup at Siakum. You're taking your defensive backbone in Marcosol. And then Norman Powell, who certainly plays for him. A couple other things that I want to mention today.

First one, Stephen A on ESPN did this riff saying that the Pelicans should not bring Zion back at all. Last week we covered. And I just mentioned the Pelicans who happened to be scheduled for Christmas Day, which was so that they could put Zion on center stage on their big day. He ain't going to be playing in that. We still don't know a timeline of when he might be coming back, but there is at least a sentiment out there expressed by some big media people. Reggie Miller said he won't play this year.

Stephen A is saying, look where they are in the standings. He shouldn't play this year. Where do you come out on this? Should the Pelicans just decide, hey, we're going to do the Ben Simmons thing? and we're going to have him be healthy, full version of himself for 2020, but bringing him back now this year might not be in the cards. What do you think? Whatever their doctors are saying is what they should do.

I mean, if he's healthy enough to come back and the risk for re-injury or risk of a new injury is zero or insignificant compared to waiting, then I don't see the harm in bringing him back and getting him opportunity to play because if you're in New Orleans, you expected to be more competitive this year. And going into next season, you would again expect to be competitive. And so playing Zion this year could be advantageous for the following season, the 2020, 21 season. You're building towards that point.

And I don't think there's harm in playing him as long as he's healthy. That's all that matters. No, this is a reasonable point because even if you just say, hey, he might be healthy, but we are going to be more cautious than ever, given our standing in the league. It would be very beneficial to get a look at how he looks with this roster. Because given the disappointing season, you've got to make decisions on how you want to build around him. How do him and Ingram look together?

Ingram's up for a contract. And somebody's going to throw the max at him. And so how does he look playing next to Ingram? How's that fit? You know, because you don't have a good enough sample on that. You don't have any sample on that. You want them to build chemistry. Yeah.

And the rest. Well, and also you got a big decision to make. Is that how you want to spend that money? It should be. Yeah. It should be how you spend your money. I think so too. But you know, but you know like, hey, what does this look like, you know, with the roster that we have right now?

And because you're building that team to best fit around him. But in the absence of him, how can you know? And so I think the sooner the better to get him on the court just so you could do some figuring out of how you want to build for the future so that next year's not just this year. Exactly. I disagree with Stephen A and you should play him if he's healthy. I mean, we're not a doctor's. None of us are doctors. We don't have the medical information.

If he's healthy and the risk for injury is insignificant based off what he's coming back from, then he should play and build chemistry with these guys. And they're still going to lose games. They're still going to have an opportunity to get a high. pick. He's not going to swing their fortunes so far. I don't think. I don't think that they pull themselves out of the potential of getting a top four pick in the lottery. We'll see if that changes. But I would expect with the potential of a holiday trade, they're not going to be very good. They're still going to have high draft odds, no matter what they do.

Yesterday, the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame announces eligible candidates for the class of 2020. They included some of the biggest name. ever. Chris Bosch, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett. And then I thought it was interesting. The other two guys that they had like kind of on their poster that they put out, the other two NBA players were Michael Finley and Sean Marion. Now, I think off the, now off the top of my head, I would say Finley no Marion

that's an interesting one I doubt it just because I mean I don't I don't even know how many all-star teams Marion ended up making

what do you think's a number on that maybe maybe four or five I mean and he wasn't like an all NBA guy usually I mean he was he was a four

I just think okay four he's part of some of the I mean most fun teams ever and he won that title in Dallas and was a

not just like a A side piece, he was a big part of it. Oh, he did make two all-NBAs. In 2005, 2006, he was third team all-N-B-A. And he made, then he won that title and he won four All-Star Games. I mean, he's one of those guys that I think we did this with Ginoboli. I remember, and obviously Genobley's career is better.

But you look at it and you say 15 points, 8.7 rebounds, 1.2 assist. He's better than those stats. anybody that watch Sean Marion and that's why it gave me a second to go, huh, I need to go look at his numbers and see where he ranks. But I thought that was an interesting one that they put in there. And of course, they've got Swin Cash and Tomitia

Catchings, both all-time greats on the women's side that are up for it. But I thought that was interesting that those two guys were mentioned. Bryant, Duncan, Garnett, and Bosch, those are 100% no-brainers. Yeah, all of them should be in. And I would put Sean Marion into

for a lot of the reasons that you still dated his his elite defensive ability. He was really a player ahead of his time. Imagine him in today's league the way in which we would talk about him as a player with his defensive versatility, with his ability to make plays off the dribble with his competent three-point shooting. We would talk about him in today's league as one of the better players in the game, like a top 15 guy, I would think, with the nature of today's game.

But in that past, like he was obviously a great player, probably, maybe a bit of an underrated player in his time. So it's nice to see him get recognition as a potential Hall of Famer. I would put him in. I would put him in. Would you have him as a Hall of Famer? You know, I would listen to the argument. Looking at the accolades, it's hard to put him in there.

It is. I mean, but in fairness, they put Mitch Richmond in the damn Hall of Fame. So, and he never won nothing. So this guy was, this guy was a winner. As you said, he's a great player on both ends of the court. I would, it's one of those that I would not have a problem with. How about that? Is that fair? I'm trying to look to see defensive teams.

Did he not make all defense teams a bunch? He did not make one. I mean, that's incredible to me. He's such a good defensive rebounder. And I guess that was the, you know, remember how we were talking about PJ Tucker? When you play fast, score a lot of points, everybody thinks about you for offense, that you don't, you're not going to get necessarily the, credit you deserve. But I mean, his teams were better with him on the court. And God, that,

that 0506 season is unbelievable. That's immense. 22 and 12. I mean, you think about it, though. Think about those errors. And obviously every year's different, but just pulling up the list, you get like KG and Duncan at the forward spots. You got, you know, Dwight Howard at a center position, Karolinko, Meta World Peace. There's a lot of great defensive players that were on maybe getting more minutes or perhaps getting more just had better name recognition. It was a lot or like I said, I think he was an underrated player at the time. I just don't think he got the credit necessarily that he may have received it.

And he was on Phoenix too. He was a great individual defensive player on some average or below average defenses. His peak was just amazing. Seriously. Like really from year two all the way through. I mean, this guy was reliable as hell. He was durable as hell. He played every night.

You know what? You could convince me. You know, I don't want to demerit a guy because he played 16 seasons and ended up being a fantastic role player for those. Sometimes guys, when they're when they're that good, it's very difficult for them to find, you know, just being one of the guys and a role player. But I didn't realize he played five seasons in Dallas. He got five extra seasons. they still always scoring double digits for you at a good percentage. So I don't know.

I could be convinced. I could be convinced. I, but I might be higher on him. I loved him as a player. Unbelievable. And also on Kevin Garnett, my first basketball game seeing live was against the Timberwolves.

So Celtics Timberwolves. I forget if it was 1999 or 2000. I know Minnesota won the game. Kevin Garnett had a great performance. So it's cool to see him now on the ballot when he was one of the reasons why I really first fell in love with the basketball in the first place was seeing him live. Always have loved Kevin Garnett. I remember arguing on forums back in the day during certain seasons in Minnesota that he was actually better than Duncan. Duncan had the better career.

Duncan is the better player. But I think there were a couple of years in Garnett's peak individual seasons in Minnesota, where he was. he was better. He just was on worst teams. It was sort of like the Rainey Johnson, Roger Clemens, Say Young argument in the early 2000s. And KG at his peak was just on another level. It was incredible. And I would just alert, I would alert everybody. If you have not listened to the podcast with him and Adam Sandler on with Bill, it is absolutely unbelievable. It's so funny. He's such a good storyteller. And he is, he is so dead ass serious all the time. I love the guy. It's one of those, it was such a good pod.

I usually listen to a podcast on like one and a half speed or one and a quarter, but that pod I listened at normal speed because I wanted to hear the nuance of all their jokes, of their banter back and forth. I wanted to make sure I heard and absorbed every single word Kevin Arnett was saying. I'm sure a lot of our listeners listen to us on fast speed, Chris. That is a pod to listen to on normal speed. is just incredibly funny. KG and Sandler have such great chemistry

and Bill steering the conversation. We're just really an enjoyable listen. It was great. Last thing we need to get to, James Wiseman announced that he is leaving the University of Memphis. This is a potential number one pick in the draft. You are a draft, Nick. You are one that comes up with list and compiles them

and alters them as the year goes on. Wiseman, I mean, look, there's nobody that doesn't have him in the top five. Most people have him in the top three. there's some there's some people in the NBA. Really? Yeah, there's some who are not high on him. Does it matter to you that you will not see him in college in terms of evaluation? It matters.

It matters because I would have liked to have been able to see him sustain the high level effort that he showed early in the year. Through his three games, he was playing hard. As you saw right up the street from you in Memphis, Chris, he was playing hard. and that was a question about him at lower levels. Sometimes he would go in and out of games, and I would have liked to have seen that over the duration of a full season. But with that said, though, we have seen players give poor effort.

Ben Simmons comes to mind, number one, playing for LSU. He did not try on the defensive end of the floor, but he has now become one of the best defensive players on the planet. Super versatile. Plays with effort, plays hard, is constantly engaged. with Wiseman, it would have been nice to see. It wouldn't have guaranteed that he would do that or wouldn't do that in the NBA. But I would have liked to have seen that.

And I think there's other areas on the offensive end of the floor. I would have liked to see what he did in difficult matchups, maybe when double teamed, how his passing developed. I would have liked to seen his decision making. How many of his moves were premeditated? How many of his moves were coming against reacting to a defense and adjusting accordingly? Little things like that over the course of the year we're going to miss out on. And that disappoints me.

But with that said, he's obviously a top five talent and obviously a guy that should be a lottery pick on everybody's board. And very well could still end up the number one pick in the draft because of his elite talent level. But there are questions that I would have liked to have seen answered over the course of the year that we're unfortunately not going to be able to see. And we lose out on that as NBA fans. college basketball loses out on that as well. It's just a disappointment for everybody, except hopefully for Wiseman himself, making the best decision for his own life.

Yeah, I mean, the only game that we saw him in, the Oregon game, I guess, which was, you know, I mean, he ended up getting in foul trouble, but he had monster, monster numbers. And I've probably seen more of him than most people just because of the high school basketball scene around. But here's, I keep coming back to this,

like you do have to figure out where James falls in in the landscape when you are using that high of a pick on a guy. Because if you're not a, if you're not a Davis, if you're not a towns, if you're not an M-B'd, one of these guys, like, that's what you need to be. This is a perimeter game now. And so how much impact and how great can you be as a guy that is a close to the basket player? Obviously those guys, the ones I mentioned, have stretched it out more, which people will argue he will have to too. But I mean, I just, you look at the way this NBA is being played right now. And using the super high pick on the big guy, that guy better be awesome. Like, super awesome.

And even then, you know, we saw Davis, I get it. They didn't build around them well. They haven't built around towns well. But, I mean, these guys, they never won nothing. I think they were certainly better prospects than James is. I'm leaning a lot more towards the perimeter guys now. I mean, look, go back a couple years. You think everybody wishes they would have taken Luca instead of Aitin and Bagley?

And those were big guys. By the way, and by the way, from that draft, the third leading scorer in the NBA is Luca Donchich, and the fourth leading scorer in the NBA is Trey Young. Trey Young, yep. I mean, and it was big guys that went ahead of them. it's it's interesting because you look at the top of the draft this year you have wiseven who played three college games lamello ball who played zero college games r j hampton potentially top five pick

zero college games cole anthony out with injury right now of course he he is playing college basketball but could miss six weeks maybe longer who knows has only played nine college games it's just been really not very fun watching high level talent in college basketball this year because there hasn't been much of it. I know. And it's disappointing. It has been a dud. Kevin, it is always a pleasure.

I hope you have a great weekend and I'll talk to you right after it's over before we get into these Christmas games. I'm looking forward to it, Chris. Have a great weekend, everybody. And thanks Steve for producing today. Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating interview on iTunes. Five stars, five stars.

It really helps. And we will talk to you next week.