The Ringer NBA Show - Is Houston the Biggest Threat to Golden State's Dynasty? | Group Chat (Ep. 220)

Episode Date: March 1, 2018

The Ringer's Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are joined by Haley O'Shaughnessy to talk LeBron rumors (2:25), the red-hot Rockets (5:30), and Anthony Davis's MVP candidacy (13:10), before trying to pin down some of the teams between third and 10th place in the East and West who might make some noise in the playoffs (22:50). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, everybody. Today's episode of The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by the Yahoo Tournament Bracket. You know what time it is? Bracket time! There's no wrong way to pick teams with the Yahoo Sports Torny Pickham all through the Yahoo Fantasy app, joining a public group or create a group, or join Draymond Green's group for a shot at 25 grand. Don't miss out on March Madness. Get your bracket in before the games tip off March 15th. You can't make in the tournament this year? Don't think so. Okay. Basketball is very good.

The Raptors are the best team in the East. Phil Jackson actually saved the Knicks. Mark L. Fultz will be an all-star next year. Basketball is very good. Hello, and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It's group chats. Haley O'Shaughnessy. Hello.

Justin Verrier. Hi. When did I start going group chat? You're going to just, a few episodes ago. I tried to give everything a signature. You know what I mean? You're getting more and more excited as the season goes on. I'm not excited for you.

today because I have to talk about my Bet Noir, the Houston Rockets, because they're the second best team in the NBA, the first best team in the NBA. We'll figure it out. We have to talk about the Rockets. They're on a 14-game win streak. Before we get to the NBA, I want to tell you guys a little bit about what's going on on the ringer this week. Because

what a week. What a banner week for this website. Great website. A lot of long-form features, including we are in the presence of a long-form writer, Justin. Me? No, Haley. We are in the presence of a great long-form writer, Haley O'Shaughnessy has a piece.

See, I don't put her in her box like that. No, I know. I know. You are. It is, it is true. But she wrote a great piece about inside the world of NBA barbers, uh, working with guys like Courtney Lee and Dwight Howard. It has some funny quotes in the piece. Great piece, Haley. Thanks, Chris. We also have to talk about draft class and one shining podcast. Those are the places you need to go to get ready for March Madness and to get ready for the NBA draft. Draft class is Danny Chowell, Kevin O'Connor and Jonathan Sharks talking about this coming NBA draft. And one shining podcast, say hi to the bad guys.

You know what I'm saying? Tate Frazier, Mark Titus, guiding you through this crazy FBI world of college basketball. Oh, are the FBI? Are the college basketball coaches the bad guys? Bagg guys. Because they have the whole thing, good guy, bag guy. Right. That's funny.

One shiny podcast, check it out. Also on the ringer.com, Justin and I. Justin played Dr. Melfi to me and helped me work through some feelings about. LeBron James possibly coming to the Sixers. Let's start there. Why don't we just start there? Did you guys see what they asked LeBron if he had said he'd been in Philadelphia looking at schools over the All-Star Week? And he was just like, was I in Philadelphia? No. He's definitely coming.

He also made this weird distinction between like Philadelphia and Pennsylvania. He said Pennsylvania? Yeah. Malvern Prep, I believe, is in New Jersey. And that's the place that he was rumored to have been looking at for his kids. What a weird side trip to take, like, regardless of if he wanted to be there. I was actually watching Instagram videos of his kids. I think it was his oldest son. And he already has all the swagger of LeBron.

Like, the way he moves is amazing. Like, I'm already so excited. I'm probably going to watch, like, YouTube videos after this. He's, like, 10-year-old muscles. Yeah. I don't have muscles in 30. Right. I seriously think that this is how the rumors of LeBron juicing up end,

because his kids are literally the existence. Now even his children are swole. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to say that I think he's coming to Philadelphia now. Wow. Yeah. I do.

I just, it just feels right. It feels like they, okay, I definitely think that there is going to be a serious conversation between the two parties. I can see that. And I think that it's just, like I said in the piece today, any one piece of evidence is refutable on its own in a vacuum. All of them put together is just too weird. make it not a story. Yeah, I think LeBron likes to flirt with other teams. I think he likes to be wanted.

He's not flirting with the Lakers like this. Maybe he knows that Magic Johnson would get like fine $3 million next time he tamper. Right. I just think that I think we're just in a different fit. I think we did all that. And now he's, he basically is just responding to everyone that's, that's kind of putting it out there in the ether. Yeah.

I think he wants to stay in the East too. Yeah. That's big. I mean, if you look at his legacy, like just stacking up finals appearances. If you can't get titles, that's like, that's still an accomplishment. I just don't know about the fit.

We talked about this. Yeah, I mean, it's basically how much of the Sixers that you love do you have to get rid of to make a new Sixers built around LeBron James. And obviously, the clutch connection would suggest that Ben Simmons and LeBron James would play together, but the actual basketball connection would suggest that would not work very well because Ben Simmons cannot shoot.

Yeah. Dario, another guy who's similar in type. He makes decisions ultimately, I believe, because of the basketball decision, because it helps him win titles. Yeah. And I don't know, as currently constructed,

the Sixers would do that. But on the other hand, he's also gone to teams and kind of got them to trade their best assets. Andrew Wiggins never played for the Cavs as a result of... Turns out it wasn't the best asset. Yeah, exactly.

His face when I said that was pretty... Yikes. Pretty gripping. Okay. Yeah, I just... I think he's coming. We'll see. I just think it's...

I just have a weird feeling, my spiky sense. Let's talk about the Rockets. So the Rockets beat the Clippers and the return to the hallway brawl. 105.92 last night. They have two 14 game win streaks this season. They are 33 and 3 when James Hardin and Chris Paul play. They're making me a huge Warriors fan.

I don't know why I can't get over the hump with this team. There's something about them that feels like a cheat code, I think. There's something about it that feels like it's like you're trying to game basketball a little bit. Like Golden State? Hasn't been that for like the last three years? Yeah, but I don't see Golden State. It's hard to explain it.

I respect how the rockets have like literally changed the geometry of the game. I watched some of the plays last night and they were accounting for the idea that Eric Gordon was going to make a shot five feet from behind the three point art. You can't defend that in traditional NBA defensive. schemes. I mean, there's just, eventually they will find an open shooter who's like going to have a 40% shot of making a shot, even if it's like 36 feet away. That is crazy. But there's, I think there's just an, a dodgy old man in me who's just like, I just like to see a little bit more. I don't like the idea that they've like fixed, they've solved the Rubik's Cube, you know?

Like a fair weather fan except like a fair weather hater. I'm not, I've hated the Rockets this, this entire Harden run. I've never. liked the Rockets since Harton's been on the Rockets. I'm going to do a little fact check on that after this pod. Why? You think you're going to find some some evidence of me being like, man, I love the Rockets. weren't you like pretty hot on them when you literally made up that Chris Paul was going to go there? And then like a month or two months later, it actually happened where the weather vein takes me. It's not that wasn't like I'm into this. That was just like I can't ignore what I'm seeing. Well, it's interesting that you you specifically pick out Eric Gordon hitting long threes because

Isn't that just Steph Curry's move? So if anything, they're just kind of following suit with a certain trend. I think that there's something about the pace that they play with in possessions and the tempo that they play at and the way in which... The way in which they probe for baskets is somehow frustrating to me. And I'm open to the idea that I'm just a hater. I'm open to the idea that there's... that I have some sort of like strange Russ thing going on about Hardin

and that that's affecting how I like them. But it's it they have, they've really like they've proven over and over again that they're an elite team. Like there's no conversation about that. I'm not arguing whether or not they're great. I'm arguing whether or not I like them and whether or not I like watching them. They're so fun. That's ridiculous.

Did you watch Hardin literally destroy a man's life last night in three seconds? that was kind of corny. Oh my God. Oh my God. That's a take. You really, like, you know what? I hate to get 90s, but like someone should have dropped a forearm on Hardin the next time we went down the lane. What did you do when Alan Iverson stepped over Lou?

Were you excited about it? Alan Iverson used to catch forearms, though. When he would do crazy shit, Anthony Mason would bury a forearm into his, into his sternum. And that, like, you just, there was a logic to it. And that made what Al-Ale-Averson did even crazier. Hardin can't control that the league is softer. That's not his problem. We do not support violence on the ringing NBA.

I don't know why it sounds like a 90s mixed fan all of a sudden. I don't mean to sound like this. I love progressive basketball. There's a part of me that wants to appreciate this Houston moment for what it is. But there is something about the way that they like kind of lope up the court and they have these two elite point guards that probe and probe and probe. And then they finally find the soft spot in some. he hits a 35 footer. Yeah, the fuck you vibes on this team are just out of control right now.

And I don't think you ever got that with the Warriors, even though like Dremont is tough, but like he says such funny stuff. It kind of almost like dolls and like some of the sharp things that he says. Whereas like with Hardin, there really isn't another side to it. And with Chris Paul, there isn't really another side to it. It seems like they're, they don't really balance out some of like the sharp, like harsh things that they're willing to say and do with something more likable. And I think what you're saying, it almost speaks to the way.

they play. It's like just so cold, hard, and efficient where it's like no, nothing in the middle ground, whatever. And I think that might be what you're getting at. Yeah. It's, it's, it, it really, really could be Russ. It really could be the fact that I feel like, that's actually fair. All the, all the, like,

work we did to, like, cheer for us last year has now gone to, like, cheering for an upgrade, you know, a version. We had to stand for it through and through. A new IOS. Struggle this season. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of Dremont and speaking of, of, of having a little bit of swagger.

He said last night, it's been highly publicized that that team, speaking of the Rockets, is designed to beat us, noted. Great. We'll see y'all soon.

Do you think this Rocket's team could be the Warriors? Well, I looked up during their 14 game win streak, the teams that they've beaten, the legitimate teams that they've beaten. So it's the Cavs twice, Raptors, Jazz, three times.

We're counting the jazz, right? Sure. Blazers, Spurs, twice, wolves twice, warriors. So. Pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah.

And we also have to consider that. There's no softness to a 33 and three record with those two guys. No, absolutely not. Yeah. And also, like, in a series that could go seven games, you don't go cold all seven games. And I think that that's... James Hardin's like, hold my beer. And even if they did from outside, like, you have James Hardin and Chris Paul

able to drive in whenever they want, draw fouls whenever they want. Yeah. Tactically, this is going to be a fascinating postseason, especially. especially for Rockets opponents because I think that we typically say, or we used to say, playoff basketball is different. Every possession matters. There's not going to be easy threes. There's not going to be Wesley Johnson laughing on the ground as James Hardin stares him down.

There's going to be someone making a run. Every one of these three is trying to chase them out. Do you think it matters? Yes and no. I could definitely see it working against them. I've always been wondering, been curious about playoff Chris Paul and how he messaged with James Harden. I think that was one of the biggest questions I had.

going into the post new year's period. It's just like, yeah, this obviously works. I think they've even gotten better in their small ball lineups with just PJ Tucker and Luke Mbamute. They've been just very good in those sets. But I do wonder, you know, when Chris Paul becomes just Uber Chris Paul and he wants to put the vice grip on a game, I wonder how that's going to affect things. But one thing that I thought was really interesting is Kevin Pelton had a story on ESPN

about the Rockets the other day. And he said before the Rockets, the best competition, the Warriors had had in this run was that 67 win spurs team. They had the highest point differential of any other team, any Cavs team, whatever. Both the Rockets and the Raptors are on that same level.

So we could see the Warriors get pushed in a way that we never seen before. Yeah, and I think that I, I think I would argue at this point that the Rockets are deeper than the Warriors. I think the Warriors have more top, top talent, but the Rockets,

when you watch all the different combos of guys they can throw out there, and especially if, Capella is healthy in playing, like the way he's playing. They are, I think they go, they're eighth and ninth guys are better than the Warriors, eight and ninth guys. It might not matter in the playoffs. Right, that it's taken us this long to even mention Capella, like, says something about

how deep they are because he's truly like one of the most influential players on the team. 100%. Speaking of influential players, Tate Frazier from One Shining Podcast had a tweet the other day. I'm going to mangle it a little bit, but I'll get the essence of it right, which is the only thing you can hope to do with Tate. Hashtag UNC. He was basically saying that James Hardin's obviously the MVP this season. But if we are judging MVPs based on the way that we judged Russ last year, the way that we elected Russ last year, then it should be Anthony Davis.

Because Anthony Davis means the most, like what Anthony Davis is doing with the talent that surrounds Anthony Davis is more impressive than what Hardin's doing with the Rockets. Now, I actually do disagree. I throw my hands up, hardens the MVP. He's obviously one of the great offensive talents that have ever played the game. He's almost single-handedly changing the way you can understand positions.

How many different things has he been over the course of his career from sixth man to wingman to point guard to now this weird co-point guard floor general, but also offensive whirlwind. But man, I was watching that Spurs Pelicans game last night and he is fucking good. It's amazing.

Yeah. I mean, you've watched a lot of him in this career. Yeah, I feel like this is like when, like Trinity College goes on those squash runs where they win like just 80 games in a row and you just need to find some expert to like talk about it.

Just like, let's just say pause. Trinity College goes on squash runs. You don't know about this? No, are you? Are you on squash message boards? What's happening?

I grew up in Connecticut. They were just outside of Hartford. Everyone listening is going to be like, wow, like he's right. They do. Exactly. No, they have like just historic, like dominance in the squash world.

Yes. And occasionally, ESPN has to go and cover it. And they're always just like, who do we send? And they just pick out some guy that's probably on retainer. Is there an Anthony Davis of squash? What I'm saying is I'm the squash expert in this metaphor. I got you. I got you.

And so I'm finally getting tapped in after three years. Yes. You're the right Thompson of squash is what you're saying. You've watched a lot of Anthony Davis over the years. I think that sometimes he puts up a lot of numbers in the Pelicans. struggle and we're like, well, these are kind of empty or maybe what's it all for if the if he's not going to be in a playoff situation? It was so awesome. Even for them to get stomped by the Warriors that year that they got to the playoffs that. I mean, there's that one game that's

deaf at the corner three. I think it was in game one maybe where it was like, maybe the Pelicans are going to steal one from the Warriors. And he's been open about wanting to get back there. They are going to get, I think they're going to make the playoffs. They have a very difficult season. I mean, the rest is they have 19 games left and only like four of those games are I would say six, optimistically. I saw one stat today that said that they had come back and won from

a 15 point deficit nine times this year, which seems like a lot. And you look at their recent just win streak and just the games before that. Everything's been very close. They've been playing at just an incredibly high pace. I looked it up the other day and it would be like the highest in 30 years.

Jeez, really? Yeah. And so they're winning a lot of track meets and I think there's something to be said about that, that they've been winning these games that I remember last year that they would always come out on the other side of it because they just didn't have that little extra to get by

and so maybe this will all work out for them but I also wonder if there's a course correction coming in these next couple games. One of the things that's surprising is I think we just wrote them off after cousins went out

not necessarily because we didn't believe in their talent which frankly I didn't but because if you build an offense around two big guys and then you go I mean they're essentially mimicking the four out one in

offense that that was popular, more popular a few years ago after the magic. Yeah. Yeah, that kind of, it's Anthony Davison as many wings as we can find, even guys named Lemon, who I've never heard of before, right? Okay, I just want to say, I think that that's a bad thing. Okay. Have you guys, I'm sure you have heard of the term Lemon Booty?

No. But I can't wait to hear what you have to say about it. So we're just getting a lot of different looks there. We got Trinity Swash. We got Lemon Booty. It basically means like a guy's choking. Like he's falling apart like in the end of a game. Okay.

So I didn't think that's where you were going to go with this. Okay. As a name. Maybe as a player. I mean, we're going to have to see. Okay. They're getting a lot from guys like holiday more. Even Rondo last night, 13 and 12, like looking very motivated.

Maybe he's like this, it's contract time. but how are they even doing this? I think we always gripe about the talent around Davis, and rightfully so. I think it obscures the fact that they've actually been pretty good when he and Drew Holiday have played throughout their career. Drew has historically had a lot of injury issues, but last season didn't have virtually any, I believe. He missed 10 games early in the season because of his wife's condition.

But when they played, I think they were at 500 or above 500. And that wasn't good enough considering the start that. they had to make the playoffs. But had they had him for that time, I think they would have been just as good as some of the other teams that were kind of kicking around for that eighth, seventh seed. And then obviously,

Boogie came in and it changed the whole dynamics of the team. But they are very good together and they've done a good job this year, just kind of filling out around them. Rondo is just kind of more of like a better version of what Tim Frazier was giving them the year before. Darius Miller is really good on the wing. Etouin Moore, I think is completely underrated.

And they're still going to get solid. They're getting stuff from Ian Clark. they're getting stuff from Miratich. They're getting minor, but, you know, Dialo's out there coming in and subbing in. Yeah. Did you watch any of this game last night? Yeah. And I also want to say that I think some motivation maybe for Anthony Davis, other than just like, man, I want to get back to the playoffs, is that, is like proving to boogie.

Like, look, we could do this and imagine if you were here. Well, it does, like, bring up an interesting conversation about what they do next. I think that ultimately they have to bring Boogie back. Because there's nothing else they can do. There's no player, even coming off in Achilles, there's no player comparable to Boogie that they actually have the flexibility to acquire. 100%.

And while I think Boogie raises their ceiling in a way that I don't think they can get to under this kind of construction where we have Nico essentially playing the stretch for Ryan Anderson role, I think that sort of team, the Boogie brow combination, just like, that's a scary proposition

for our team like the Warriors. You just don't have that sort of size, the Rockets, those to our teams. They're a bit more conventional, but I think it plays into Anthony Davis's particular skill sets better than the boogie brow combination, simply because I think AD is the perfect stretch five in the modern NBA,

and you've seen them kind of unlocked that in this recent run where he's basically just getting more possessions and he's doing what he normally does with them. Could they beat the Spurs in a first round series? Or was that last night more about Lamarcus's injury? that's tough I'm not I'm not completely sure

and also like we have no certainty now that Kauai might not or might come back I'm operating under the assumption that he's not I think that the Pelicans could win then I do because like he said earlier and something you've Justin have pointed out to me throughout the season is that their role players

have got like they're significantly better than maybe the Pelicans of old yeah I mean I do wonder just like the tactical advantage that the Spurs have. I think Elvin Gentry's done a good job kind of adjusting on the fly here. But I just wonder going against Pop

in a series, he's just going to be able to pull out things and take things away from that team simply because they don't have maybe the third or fourth guy that can kill you. Davis has averaged 35 and 13 in February. He is the... He joins Moses Malone

is the only players in the past 40 seasons to average at least 35 points and 10 rebounds in a month. It's pretty good. Very basketball reference. type stat, but it suggests what kind of talent level we're dealing with. We're going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors,

and then we'll be back to talk a little bit more about some of these other teams that are all bunched up together in the three through 10 seeds in each conference. Today's episode of The Ringer MBA show is brought to you by Belvedere, produced in one of the world's longest running distilleries. Belvedere vodka is the world's finest all-natural vodka, crafted by

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Don't miss out on March Madness and get your bracket in before the games tip off on March 15th. All right, guys, we're back. We're going to talk a little bit about the bottleneck that we have in both conferences with some of these teams that are in the 3 to 10 seed area. Obviously, in certain situations, some teams have found a little bit of separation. I think, you know, obviously, the calves are going to be fine, the wizards are going to be fine. But there's a bunch of, there's a bunching. And then if you start looking at, oh, you could lose three, you could lose four.

Things get interesting here. I've given you each 10 cards. They're supposed to be chips, like gambling chips, because I basically want to see your investment. Sean Fennessee is going to be so upset. I know. Molly's game all over again. I know. Did you actually want to see Molly's game?

We talked about this? Yeah, that was the reason we brought it up. Oh, that's right. I love Molly's game. That's right. And I know it's a very unpopular opinion. It's the group chat's best picture Oscar winner. Now I have Jessica Chastain's voice narrating everything for me, all my decisions.

Even this podcast? I mean, yeah, she's like telling me what to say. So big Pelicans fan. Okay. You guys each have 10 cards. You're allowed to put as many cards as you want on any team. Okay. I think you could probably, within reason. I don't want you to put one card each on 10 teams.

That would be boring. but I want to talk about these teams that are between three and ten in each conference and you guys can invest as many chips as you want here as many cards as you want on these teams in the west those teams are the wolves spurs pelicans blazers thunder nuggets clippers and jazz and in the east it's the calves whiz pacer sixers bucks heat and pistons so haley I want we start with you okay you're a seed investor you're coming here who are you been here many times yeah who are you putting your money on uh well first of all we're talking about that we believe could have an influence.

Make some noise in the playoffs, right? So there's, we were really hot on Utah like a week or so ago. Now I feel like that's leveled out a little bit. They're still on the outside looking at on the playoffs. But feel free to bet on Utah. Feel free to bet on whoever you want. I know that I've been kind of a San Antonio downer, and I'm going to continue that right now.

I just don't think that it's going to be enough to go into the playoffs. They're aging, man. You know what I mean? Like, and that's a long season. and I'm not for sure that Kauai's coming back. I think maybe he might have got freaked out by all the talk. It was like, well, it's his choice. And, you know, that's kind of a bummer.

And, you know, I bet he just doesn't like all the attention behind that. So I'm out on the spurs. Just not for the playoffs, just making a big deal. Making noise in the pro season. So even if it was to push the Warriors a couple of games or push the Rockets a couple of games. Definitely not. And I'm also out on the wolves.

Okay. Even if Jimmy Butler comes back and they made the decision, to like have a surgery that is good in the short term. We'll bring him back faster, but it's like bad in the long term. And I just am very upset at both him and Tibbs for doing that. Okay. Even if he comes back, like, we have no guarantee that he will be. So you're not betting on the spurs.

You're not betting on the wolves. Yeah, the Jimmy Butler that we've seen this season. So I'm going five on the thunder. Five on the thunder. Wow. Yeah. Because they have that, well, it's kind of been softened as like lately. but they started out the season, like, not losing to the Warriors,

not losing to the Rockets, not losing to the Cavs. And they've fallen to them a couple times since, but they've only lost the Warriors once. And then I'm putting five in on the Blazers, which is something I would have never expected going into the season. But they are playing really well, really good basketball. So five on the Thunder. Five on the Blazers.

Okay. Those interesting picks. Yeah. You know, I do feel myself being. pull to the Thunder because I look at all these teams. And they just seem like they have another gear in a way that some of these other teams don't. And the same way that we were talking about what's postseason basketball feel like and look like against the Rockets, I feel like the flip is true for the Thunder where there is

some version of this team that is supercharged in the playoffs. And finals experience. And finals experience. And I was listening to Bill and KOC on Bill's podcast just on the way in. And they made the good point that like there's still the possibility that like peak mellow might show up in the playoffs when he's able to kind of suppress his ego a little bit and like play a little bit more in this system. I know. Well, I'm still not going to bet on that. Someone else said that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to go five on the Nuggets. I just really like what they have right now.

Yokic is already starting to kick up some dust for MVP. Now it's coming from his head coach, not necessarily from anybody else. I like what they have there. And Paul Mills, probably theoretically their best player today came back and I think he made an impact in that game the other night even though they lost the clippers. But I just like what they have. I think they could push a team like if the wolves end up in the three seed. Could they be a funky, like scare the rockets a little bit?

Those would be like 150, 140 games, right? Yeah. The thing about the rockets that the nuggets don't have is just the defense. I still wonder what they are defensively even with Milsap in there. So I'll do five on them. I'm going to go three on the spurs. Okay. Just because I trust the process to a certain degree there. I just believe in playoff pop.

Yeah. I just think they manage to win games in those sort of situations. I'm going to go two on Los Pelicans. Well, you're really spreading. You're like hedging a lot. 100%. Okay. Scared money don't make money.

Yes. I'm going 10 on Trinity Squash. Okay. So the Pelicans? Yeah. I just, Anthony Davis is probably the best player amongst these teams. Okay.

And you always want to bet on the best player. I am going to go, uh, seven on the thunder. So, I'm just going to, for the sake of visualists, right? Seven on the thunder because I think in any given series outside of,

outside of the Rockets and the Warriors. And so this behoove the thunder to get out of that seven and get up a little bit. I think they could have two or three of the best three players on the court at any given time. And I understand that they have all sorts of problems, but over and over again, over the course of this season, they have proven that they can play in any game with any team, right? And it's just a matter of actually not having to go to overtime against the Mavericks. And waste unnecessary energy over the course of the season. I don't think this is going to be the season that they were hoping for. And I think the Roberson injury really did hurt them. I don't think Corey Brewer was going to make much of a difference. Like I am thrilled for the Florida Gators reunion between him and Billy. Donovan, but I don't think that that's like a game-changing addition for those guys. I think there were other players out there at the trade deadline that would have been more interesting for them, but it's, and it's too bad that they didn't get in on the Joe Johnson sweepstakes or in some of the other things.

But yeah, I think that they're going to be a really scary team in the playoffs. I think that they're capable of beating the Warriors. Can they beat them four times in seven? I don't think so. But I think that they can beat them two or three times. Right. And against the Mavs, they had 22 turnovers. but something to take away from that is they've closed games really well as of late.

And also I think that they're a team that kind of like plays down to their competition. Yes. In the sense that I feel like the rockets have been really good at ending games in first and second quarters. The Thunder have been really good at ending games in the last two minutes, it seems like. Or at least being in games in the last two minutes. They don't often get blown out like the way the Cavs were around, January. They stick around. So I'm going to put a bunch, I'm going to put seven on the thunder, which is typical for me.

They have Corey Brewer now, so everything's changed. I also want to put three on the spurs like you. I also agree that I just like the idea of Popovich in a seven game series against pretty much any of these coaches except Kerr. We'll make a side bet after this. Okay. Let's talk about the Eastern Conference. Hellstorm. Tough. Because the Eastern Conference is like a close mess.

Yeah. This is where we rely on you for experts. Punditry. Well, thank you. I think that the Wizards have looked capable lately. I'm still not really sold because I'm like... Are you not sold on this team or you're not sold on the specter of John

Wall returning when he's done making his 1970s funk album, which is how he's dressing. I love it. That's great. He's so based. It's awesome. Seriously, both. Because if this keeps being successful and then you put him in the lineup, Scott Prox is not going to

not put him back in the lineup. up. And if that ruins some things, if it shakes it up, if you need time for adjustment, like it's going to be late in the season. When is he expected back? Before the playoffs, I believe. Before the playoffs. I mean, yeah. Okay. So let's say it's like a couple games before the playoffs. That kind of doesn't give you a whole lot of time. But at the same time, the Pacers are kind of shaky. They dropped three in a row. And the heat were eight and one before the All-Star break. And they had that amazing Dwayne Wade game where he just was. de Wade that we all loved, but I'm sorry, like, he's not going to be D. Wade every night.

There's no way. He's explicit about that. He's like, yeah, this is, we're going to get, like, we're going to get flashes of flash, but we won't get me every night. You know, I think he's pretty comfortable with where he is. You were always a little skeptical about the heat. Yes. Because we had talked about whether or not last season's second half run was going to be

a predictive of this season. And then it seemed like they, they were up around fourth or fifth, I think, at one point. They were really cruising. And things have sort of started to fall apart. three and seven their last 10, they have a negative point differential of point four. Do you think there's another run in them, or is this sort of where they're at? Maybe, but I would have pointed to that point differential in just their recent record. I'm looking at it right now, they're three and seven in their past 10.

Yeah. It feels a little bit more accurate. I mean, they have a worse point differential than the Charlotte Hornets who are like slowly starting to creep back into this. Zach Cram in the office the other day showed me 538's just play off odds going forward. and the Hornets actually had better odds than I believe both the pistons and the heat, which is insane to think about. Now, I don't think they're better than either of those teams.

I think the heat are more like... Yeah, I think the heater probably have a better top end, but the East is slowly starting to get some better top-level teams. Like I look at the list that we have here of just guys that we can bet on, and I kind of like a lot of them. Yeah. Are you putting the wizards in there?

I wish I could. I love what they have right. now. I think it just makes a lot of sense, especially when you look up the matchups in the playoffs. I think they match up particularly well with the Celtics. But again, just like you, Haley, I'm worried about the John Wall effect and how much he'll throw things off. I wish this is this weird thing to say. I wish the John Wall injury had happened in December. And that- Well, it did. And then he had another one. Yeah, I know. I mean, I wish that he had been out for, say, Christmas to Valentine's or whatever.

Yeah. And then they could reintegrate him back into the team. And maybe Scott Brooks see some things about how I should stagger. I should have Beal and Wall split a lot of the game and then be on the court together in the fourth quarter or whatever it is, you know, follow some of what Dantone does with Paul and Hardin. Have basically two different looks you can throw out there where there's a Beal-centric ball movement on

and then there's maybe an isocentric wall thing. And that would just fuel the fire under John Wall. He'd be so upset about that. Well, I'm not saying bring him off the bench as much as... No, I don't think you are, but it's like you're going to be very, aware of what's going on if you're not playing with Beal anymore. Like one of you is a rotating second unit. I don't think that we're, I think that we're getting a little carried away and like talking about Wall like he's Isaiah Thomas. Like I don't, I think he's like a really good player. And it's not

like the wizards are like in the second seed now without him. They've had, they're 500 a little bit better than 500 team without him. But there have been times before when players aren't getting along and it's kind of like, I don't want to say this particular time is like a poison because I think that it's getting a little dramatic. Yeah. But we've definitely seen that before, and even, like, super talented players become, like, an issue just because

they don't really get along with the rest of the team. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I feel like we skip past your chip distribution a little bit there. So you... I'm all in on the Wizards. Wow. I don't have any...

Not because I'm super confident in them. I'm just not confident in anyone else. Okay. Yeah, Satterancy's good, man. And I think their issue is more of, like, a cap distribution sort of issue. Sure. It's just that Sataranis makes up enough of what John Raw brings

that you probably we need more help in the front court. Yeah, I mean, this will be probably one of the most interesting conversations that we have in the offseason is this idea of trading players at their peak, which I feel like we talk about a lot because we need stuff to talk about, but could creepingly get into the minds of some GMs where ordinarily you would say, wow, I did it. I got John Wall or Anthony Davis locked up for their peak. And yes, it's costing me a lot of money. But now maybe you start thinking three, four years down the line and you see more teams do what the Clippers did. I have a take, not related to anything we were just talking about.

I wish we could jumpets Blair. Yeah, you're going to die in this hill? We have a drop. We haven't done the drop in a while. Kyle, can we, can we drop 300? This is Sparta! I am not saying he's at his peak, but I think that the wolf should entertain trading Andrew Wiggins.

Okay. I think somebody would take him on. It's a very expensive contract. I mean, you got the maximum of extension, but somebody's going to take him on. There's just teams that want a fresh start, that things haven't been working out. Maybe it's like a defensive-minded coach,

and they think, I mean, Tibbs is supposed to be, but he still hasn't gotten through to him. Or maybe somebody who knows that they can be hard on him, you know, on offense. Like Popovich, for example, I don't know if they'd take that risk, but like even Brad Stevens, even Brad Stevens, because hiring,

I'm intrigued. Kyrie went to Brad Stevens, and he's like, it feels like a college team. It feels like we're all working together. We all care about each other. And also, in any given moment, like, our coach helps us win. Yes, and I don't think he feels that way about Tibado. I think maybe even... Haley, I'm very intrigued by the, the Wiggins to the Spurs thing.

I'm a little worried about the wolves now. I mean, Butler, even if he comes back, like, and he looks 80% of what he was? The lady of the wolf did not put any chips down on the wolves? Yeah. I'm nervous about them. Very excited that they'll get in the playoffs. But I don't think that this is there you to make noise in the playoffs quite yet.

Yeah, I think that they are actually a lot like the Thunder if they were healthy. I would not want to be in a seven-game series with those guys grinding me down like that. But they're going to be a fascinating litmus test about how hard you can play players during the regular season. The one secret thing that the Rockets have been doing,

Chris Paul played 29 minutes last night. You know, James Harden played 33 minutes last night. They're not running these guys in the ground. is out here working double shifts to beat the Mavericks, but I wonder if we're going to see at the end of the season some of that pay off. Maybe John Wall will be all the better for his mid-year vacation. Okay. I'm fascinated by this idea that GMs might start thinking more creatively about star players on quasi-long-term deals as assets rather than building blocks. A salary dump before it becomes a salary down. This will be the Blake. Yeah, but the Duran Williams. Yeah,

Exactly. Okay, so we kind of got off track. Do you guys, do you have any Eastern Conference chips you'd like to throw down? You put 10 on the Wizards? Yeah. That's great. She's all in. Yeah.

I keep thinking about this. You really did see Molly's game. What is the Bond movie where they play? It's Casino Royale. He goes, yeah. He's putting them all in. There's also like a 35 minute long poker scene. Often what will happen with poker movies is that you'll be watching them and you're like,

I wish there was more poker in this movie. And then Casino Royale actually, it has all the poker. And you're like, holy shit this is a really long card game yeah it's all about grinding out those wins doesn't that guy have like a weird tear thing going on I think so yeah I can't remember do you or see casino

royale no I don't like the bond movie I'll tell you what if Molly's game star Idris Elba were to be in a bond movie I would definitely check it out maybe we just have our video department like video repurpose Idris into every bond movie

and Haley can watch all the bond movies lovely I am not going all in on one theme. But I am putting eight on the Cleveland Cavaliers. LeBron has been to seven straight NBA finals. That's insane. Are they in fourth place? Yeah. They're in third place. And it's

funny because I was prepared to make the point that we sleep on LeBron for MVP over Anthony Davis, even though like LeBron has led them to so many more wins. Not true. The Cavs have one more win to the Pelicans right now, which is insane. I just think like they have enough around him at this point that he can just lift them to a higher level. I wouldn't be surprised if

made in other finals. I'm going to put two though on your Philadelphia 76ers. LeBron's future team. I mean, I just think that they have hit a stride here in the second half. They know what they are now. The math indicates that like they're a good team. They have Ersaniliozova back.

I think he's going to make all the difference. You never know when Markov could come through. Oh my God. Just kidding. I'm just kidding. They got Ursula that's fine. Yeah. I'm just kidding. For the second round pick on Trevor Booker.

Yeah, exactly. Guys, I have 10 cards. Okay. They're all going on the Raptors. Wow. I know that we... We said 3 through 10. But here's the thing is that...

This is so unfair. There's the thing. The House always wins. But we haven't talked about the Raptors in a while. And they are 9 and 1 in their last 10. And are they the most underrated great team we've... Absolutely. I mean, like, I can't get...

Who do they have to beat? How often they have to win? How consistent do they have to be? I sincerely believe people don't... don't watch them. I don't. You should. I check it every now and then.

It's not even that they're good. They are fun. Yeah. Like they are legitimately fun. No, here's, this is the actual problem with this whole question

for the Eastern Conference is that nobody here has actually, I don't believe in any of these teams. It's like I'll, in theory, talk myself into the bucks, and then I'll actually watch them against the Wizards. And I'm like, what are you doing?

Yeah. I'll watch them against the pistons. I'm like, what's going on here? You know, like, what is this team? Who are we looking for? Yonis is God, but he actually, I'm waiting for him to, it doesn't feel

exactly like it feels when you watch the Pelicans and Anthony Davis, like where you're sure no matter what's going to happen that this guy is going to kind of, is going to give these guys a chance to win. Yeah, Unicorn backlash. I mean, it's not really a backlash as much as like I was watching them against the Wizards and I was like, well, why isn't, why isn't

Yonis bringing the ball up and it's every time down, he's going to make the wizard stop him to not score? And instead there's like these We're dribble handoffs between like Middleton. And I don't know. I was like, I don't think they know what this team is. Yeah, Janice is in the phase of where Anthony Davis was in 2014-15,

where he just rose to prominence and they just made the playoffs. And he almost took a game from the Warriors, but they just don't have enough around him right now. And he himself hasn't even learned how to shoot. I mean, once he hits that level, I think he can win some MVP's and be in discussion of leading a team to, you know, conference finals. So, I mean, I'm not willing to put many cards on them. say three on Janus and three on the bucks because they're interesting. I'm going to put two on this weird wizards team and I would put five on the Sixers because they're actually pretty good. They're actually pretty good. And I actually do think that if he's healthy, Joel and Bede is

probably the best player in a non-Raptors Cavs, I guess Saltics. So you aren't putting any on the Cavs either. I don't think they need it. I, yeah, I'm not going to lie. I kind of forgot about them. I read that as like four through ten. But they're having a bizarre season. The pass is a past. I'm still on the Wizards. Team because it, you know, like what seed does it really matter if LeBron really is? It's not a

third seed team. They can beat any team in the league. They can also lose to the heat. Like I don't really know what they are. And this is the theme of the playoffs is going to be is these enormous changes at the last minute. It's Wall coming back. It's Kawhi possibly coming back. It's Butler possibly

coming back. And it's this Cavs team trying to make themselves into a contender on the fly. But as far as making, I'm not saying finals, but as far as making, you know, upsetting and maybe like making noise in the playoffs, it's LeBron James. Yeah. He doesn't lose playoff series. Yeah.

To bring this back full circle, especially first round series, yeah. To bring this back full circle, the 36 matchup could be Cav Sixers. Could be like the open edition for LeBron's heart there. That's so fun. That'd be cool. He'll definitely be able to check out houses then. Thank you guys for joining us for NBA group chat. Check out draft class on Friday. We have NBA shows every day on the ringer. Thanks for being with us. Take care. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.