The Ringer NBA Show - Is Kawhi Leonard’s Load Management a Problem? Plus: Gordon Hayward Is Back and the Wolves Need a Leader. | The Mismatch

Episode Date: November 8, 2019

The load management conversation is at a fever pitch in the NBA after the Clippers were fined for not communicating Kawhi Leonard’s reason for sitting out. Is this a real problem for the league or is it confined to Leonard (2:00)? Plus, we run through Kemba Walker’s return to Charlotte, Gordon Hayward’s resurgence, the Wolves' precarious position, and more (19:33). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This NBA season, Mountain Dew, is all about the threes, the shot that's changing the game. During the course of our podcast, we'll end up talking about Bill Simmons' book of basketball podcast that he's come out, but I was just listening to he and Rosillo talk about Steph Curry and how much that shot, and he in particular has changed the NBA. Brought to you by Mountain Dew, the official beverage of the NBA, Dude, the Dude. Today's episode of The Mismatch on the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by, Farm. Just like basketball, the game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a State Farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected

and help you handle whatever life throws your way. We will talk about all manner of unpredictable outcomes, including Gordon Hayward's massive resurgence that has taken place so far this year. And Kawhi Leonard, after three quarters last night, just looking so-so and then exploding in the fourth quarter because of load. management possibly. Get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a state farm agent today about combining your home and auto insurance. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Friday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber,

aka Kevin O'Climber, A.K. Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Conert. Kevin O. Verna, what's going on this Friday morning, man? well I hate that the topic around the NBA for the course of the last week has not been player performance or a player performance but rather a player's non-performance but we must broach the subject at least for a second off the bat kawai leonard who sat out a game two nights ago has been the topic and then he came back as he has been sitting out back to backs came back last night and was just okay maybe the worst he's been for the first three quarters and then exploded for 18 points in the fourth

quarter. He now leads the league in fourth quarter scoring 13.5 points per game. And, you know, this is to me, Kev, this is a function of his explosion into total and complete superstardom. Some more people are paying attention to him than ever before. But beyond that, the focus being that he is in L.A. and those games are on national television because he only played 60 games last year for Toronto. Now, he ended up playing 24 postseason games, but he only played 60 games last year.

And Kauai Leonard's load management was not much of a topic at all. And yet here we are very early in the season. And it's already a talking heads show topic, right? It certainly strengthens the arguments from Rafters fans that we've long heard that nobody pays attention to them. The fact that nobody talked about this or cared about this past season and now it's suddenly a bunch of hoopla about it because he sat on a national TV game and, you know, look, I let me just say, like, I feel badly for fans who buy tickets to these games

and they're expecting to see Kauai Leonard and they don't. I've been to games when I was a kid where I thought a player was going to play and he was out either because he was hurt or was just a day or rest or like at a baseball game, you know, the rotation changed slightly. And I had to see Tim Wakefield pitch for the hundredth time for the Red Sox. Like it, it was disappointing as a kid. But, but, you know, with Kauai Leonard, though, he is such a unique case with the fact that he's had this chronic quad issue since 2012. Tom Haversstrow, when he was at ESPN in 2012, wrote a great piece detailing what the Spurs did to what they thought at the time was Kurt Taylor.

this problem that he had. And it's obviously seven years later, still an issue. So what needs to happen for Kauai Leonard to maintain this problem? Well, we saw it last year with getting rest, load management, whatever you want to call it. And that's going to be something that happens moving forward for him so he can stay healthy not just in November games, but as far as they can take it, whether it's April, May, June. That's ultimately the goal for this squad is to keep him healthy. And by the way, I find it so hypocritical sometimes when people are like, he needs to play these games, you're paid to play 82 games. And like, yeah, that's true to an extent. But does the benefit of him playing today outweigh the risk in their eyes, what their data, what their doctors are saying?

Because if you are playing kawai in these back-to-backs just because old school, got to play all 82, going to be tough. Well, maybe that results in him suffering a serious injury down the line, which results in him missing even more time or shortening his career. I think we, you know, oftentimes it's understandable to be frustrated when players aren't performing. But I think when it comes to someone like Kauai Leonard, I would trust, you know, after seven years of him having an issue that's probably for the best for him to be resting on back-to-backs. It's just unfortunate that it's impossible for the league to not schedule a back-to-back with two national TV games. It's unfortunate that fans pay tickets without knowing.

And I wish those were problems that could be solved more than anything else. But players are always going to be resting or players are always going to get hurt and they're going to unfortunately miss games. That's inevitable. I wish we could find other solutions to the schedule and with, you know, really messaging to fans that there's an increased risk with back-to-backs that players could miss games. Well, the other thing is that it's not like Kauai Leonard goes to the arena and says, hey, I'm not going to do this. I mean, it is, he is being advised to do this. And it was interesting that the NBA fined Doc Rivers 50 grand for saying basically that he feels great. But and the whole, I guess the concept of that was he feels great because we are doing this, right?

like we want him to keep feeling great that it is not a he is hurt and that's why he can't play but rather a preventative measure to say this is why he is not getting hurt and and there is you know you and I both heard darrell morey saying this uh over the course of the off season where he was asked about it all and he's like it's i was expecting him who has been at the forefront of the analytics revolution to say, you know, to maybe come to its defense, but rather he thought it was a lot of pseudoscience and that there is, as he has looked very, very in depth to it, that correlation has been very, very difficult to find between resting or playing and then injury and or non-injury. But at least with this particular training staff, they feel as if that they are, they feel as if that they are doing the right thing by Kauai by not having him do this. as a preventative measure,

not because he is hurting at that time, but rather they don't want it to, they don't want him to be overextended to the point where he does hurt because he has been prone and he just missed a season a few years ago and destroyed an entire relationship with a franchise that we thought he would be with forever

over said injury, right? Like, I mean, that's what, that's why it all fell apart in the first place. So if I'm the team that has Kauai Leonard, you better believe I'm being mega careful and putting the player first because the Spurs once upon a time lost the best player in the entire NBA because of the way they handled the situation. And they are known for load management for goodness sake. They've been doing it for years and years now. It's not like the Raptors invented this. Spurs were fined a quarter of a million dollars years ago for resting all their stars on a national team game by then Commissioner David Stern.

I thought Earl Watson, you know, former Phoenix Sun's head coach, former NBA player, raised a good point on Twitter that day that nobody was really talking about, that he said, quote, load management isn't the toll of the NBA schedule, it's the toll of youth travel basketball playing 12 to 15 games a weekend to keep their monthly fees validated. That hurts the players in life and rookies entering the NBA. Youth hoops needs less games and more teaching. And that relates to what Baxter Holmes wrote on ESPN earlier. about how youth basketball oftentimes causes kids to have issues with muscles or cartilage or

anything with their body before entering the league or even before entering college. This goes down to the youth levels. And that's something that's sort of beyond the NBA's reach. But perhaps it's something that needs to happen through just awareness of making sure players aren't playing all these games on, you know, multiple games in a weekend. when they're young because it does hurt them down the line. You have no idea. And I think that I, until I was a parent, I didn't realize the full extent of it.

But now I have a son who is involved in a myriad of sports and he plays all seasons. But he just plays one per season and he's been asked to be on a ton of AAU teams. And I mean, my answer is he is nine. He's nine. No, he's not doing this right now. or whether it is, he has a friend. He just played 80 baseball games, Kevin. 80.

They're nine years old. He just played 80 games. And I was like, what in the hell is going on? What? And you're right about these tournaments, they play all manner of games. Sometimes up to four in a day, back to back. I do think it is an issue. I know it's an issue in baseball, especially with the arm damage.

that, you know, there's hardly a young pitcher that comes up to the major leagues now that doesn't have to have Tommy John or shoulder surgery or something, and many times within their first couple of seasons in pitching in Major League Baseball. But in basketball, too. And I do think that there is, there is an uptick in younger players getting hurt. And I think that they, you know, it used to always be, look how many miles this player has. logged. We used to do this with guys that had an immense amount of carries when they were in college as a college football player. And then they would go to the NFL and like, well, if the guy didn't, you know, if the guy wasn't running to the ground in college, then he may have a better chance of staying around a little bit longer, maybe I have a bigger lifespan. And the miles that these kids are logging because right now, they are traveling. They are being evaluated. and I'm talking about nine and 10 year olds.

Nine and 10 year olds. That's when it starts for these kids now. And I, you know, I do think that there is a bit of disservice done to them at that young age. Everybody can do their own thing and everybody's got to raise their own kids and I'm not here to judge anybody and how they want to do it. But I am of the belief that you are at greater risk of injury and that, you know, when you get older playing 80 games is absurd, much less when you are nine years old, but do each their own.

But I agree with Earl Watson. By the way, one of my favorite players I covered. I had Earl Watson. He was traded for very early in the Jerry West tenure. Really, really sharp guy. He's always been a sharp guy. And was a good basketball player, too.

Earl was one of my favorite interviews I've ever had when I did my story in the bright future sons back in 2017, when he was head coach, just a really awesome, awesome guy. Yeah, and I think he knows what he's talking about. I did. He does. I mean,

he's been in those meetings. And he's someone tied into that network. But here's the thing, man. The Kauai Leonard thing is a top. And I heard Jay Williams talking about this on ESPN yesterday, and I agree with him. It's not an NBA problem. It's a Kauai problem.

Really? I mean, this isn't, this isn't, we're not talking about it all over the, league and like this is a frigging crisis. We're talking about one player. Seriously. That's what we're talking about. You know, we're talking about one guy. And I think it sucks when fans buy tickets to games, but I had a guy two days ago

tell me he spent $400 so he could take his daughters to go to a game in a, I think it's in a couple weeks. Spent $400 on tickets because his daughters love Steph Curry. Steph Curry's got a broken hand. I mean, he's going to go watch Jordan. pool. Like it does happen. You don't know what I mean? Like, I mean, it sucks. That's one of my points that I made on Twitter.

It's, you know, if, you know, injury or rest is inevitable, what can you do here? I mean, like, players miss games. I think when it comes to the risk of rest, I would love to see something in which. So, like, if you buy a ticket, I remember going, you know, Fenway Park when I was a kid, there's certain tickets that before you purchase it, it tells you. you that this is a ticket with an obstructed view. I think it would be cool if with NBA with back-to-back games or like a game that's a three games and four nights, if those tickets were labeled as there is a increased probability

that a star player will rest for one of these games. But not now. Not now. This isn't a crisis. I know. I know. I know it's not. It's not a crisis.

If it becomes a crisis, I agree with you. Yes. I'm saying exactly. If it gets to that point that it's such a big deal, then at that point, I think it would be nice to do it. But guess what? Like, an individual team could decide to do that. You know, like the Clippers,

if they really wanted to message that to fans because of the nature of Kauai Leonard's workload, they could put that on tickets. They could say on back-to-backs, there's an increased probability, but no guarantee that Kauai Leonard may miss this game because it's a back-to-back. And you know this, too.

The only reason anybody gives a crap is because it was a national TV game. No, and that's the only reason anybody cares. You know what I mean? That's the only reason. Yeah, that's right. It's the only reason we're talking about it. And so I don't think that we are anywhere close to a crisis problem.

I think that there is a Kauai thing and not a NBA thing. And for the old heads like you were talking about, that talk about load management in my day, whatever. Like Isaiah Thomas, who was a subject of, you know, Bill Simmons book of basketball and the updated one, which by the way, that podcast is great. I've heard great. I listen to one with Steve Kurt. It's awesome.

Yeah. And I'm not just saying that. Not being a company man here. Like, it's a dope pod. Yeah, but he's talking to, he's talking about Isaiah Thomas. He's talking about the secret, okay? Well, anybody can go look up. This is one of the all-time greatest players, Isaiah Thomas, right?

Isaiah Thomas retired when he was 32 years old. You know what I mean? So, like, we didn't always do everything the right way, way back when we were tougher. You know what I mean? You know, you mentioned how, like, this isn't a, crisis and yet we just spent 10 minutes talking about it instead of the fact that on the first nine of that back to back the clippers lost by only five to the bucks with just behind an outstanding

performance by their other players montres harrell lou williams patrick beverly or the fact that in last night's game the clippers stomped on the blazers in the fourth quarter behind an unbelievable effort by kawai leonard it's like everybody before the season is talking about how this year in the NBA it's going to be about basketball not as many trades and are not many trades are out there potentially, so it's going to be about basketball. The China stuff is behind us. It's going to be about basketball.

And then early season, it's always about something else instead of the game. And that is a little bit disappointing to me. It is, but this guy is the best player in the NBA. And I think it speaks to why this is a huge topic right now. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it. Do you want to remind everybody, today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by Roman,

With two-thirds of guys experiencing noticeable hair loss by age 35, most guys assume losing their hair is inevitable as they age. Some don't care, some shave their heads, some embrace hats. What they don't know is that there are FDA-approved medications designed to stop hair loss and even regrow hair. That's why we're excited to partner with our sponsor, Roman. Roman makes it easy and safe to get FDA-approved hair loss treatment all from your phone or computer. And when you go to get roman.com slash ringer NBA, your online visit is free. Consult a U.S. licensed position through their secure online platform. No awkward conversations with receptionists or reading bad magazines and waiting rooms.

Once your doctor ensures the treatment is safe and effective for you, Roman's dedicated pharmacy can ship your medication to you free. Two-day shipping indiscreet packaging. If you're noticing unwanted hair loss, starting treatment early is key and Roman can help. And today, Roman is giving the Ringer NBA show listeners a free online visit at getromen.com slash ringer NBA. That's get Roman.com slash ringer NBA for a free visit to get started. Go to get Roman.com slash ringer NBA. Today's show also brought to you by Brilliant Earth.

Create your own one-of-a-kind engagement ring from a variety of ethically sourced diamonds, gemstones, metal types, and settings with Brilliant Earth. Brilliant Earth has exclusive unique designs you can't find anywhere else brought to life by master jewelers. They also offer wedding rings, earrings, bracelets, and necklaces. Brilliant Earth is also the global leader in ethically sourced fine jewelry. They offer beyond conflict-free diamonds along with fine jewelry crafted from recycled precious metals and they donate 5% of profits to help build a brighter future in communities impacted by the jewelry industry. To make your Brilliant Earth purchasing experience as stress-free as possible, they offer free shipping and returns on all orders.

They also offer flexible payment options, including easy monthly payments from 0% APR financing. And now, if you purchase an engagement ring, you will also receive a complimentary diamond jewelry gift. To see terms for this special offer and to shop all of Brilliant Earth selections, go to BrilliantEarth.com slash ringer NBA. That's BrilliantEarth.com slash Ringer NBA. A couple other things that took place last night that we need to talk about. So we knew there were going to be a bunch of return games this year. Guys returning to places that they played for a long time. What about Kauai?

What about that actual game? Portland, L.A. Clippers. I said he had 18 in the fourth quarter and that he leads the league in fourth quarter scoring. What do you want me to talk? What do you want me to say? I mean, the fact that Portland sucks ass at the three and four position, they're relying on Anthony Tolliver and Mario Hizonia. like this team needs to make a move.

It has not been any more clear than their early season start at three and five. They stink at that position. Like I thought, I mean, the guy that they faced last night, Mo Harkless and obviously losing Alfa Rukamino as well, I thought those were, you know, shitty losses for them. But I underrated those losses. They need to make a move at some point. And I think you look at that team,

it's got to be Hassan Whiteside salary filler that they use once Nerkich's back. It's got to be, they got to find a three or four. Really not just have a shot at making noise in the playoffs, but maybe even making the postseason at all, Chris. Oh, how could you be Moharkless? They also, look, they just lost the Collins kid for four months. So that sucks.

You know what I mean? There is part of it. I have always thought that they are the absolute perfect destination for Kevin Love. and that he would be amazing with Dame and with McCollum. And I don't know if they've got the young assets to put that together. I know everybody's in love with Anthony Simons, but if you could package together, salary, Simons, maybe something else young, a pick, whatever it takes to be able to get Kevin

love, I do think that that would solidify that team. And it would be a homecoming of sorts for love. I think you're on the right path there for That's who I'd go for if I was Portland Or even someone like Danello Gallamari On Oklahoma City Thunder and Gallinari Fort Worth is very very available They're not shopping him but he is very available

Kobe Altman Cavaliers gentleman just said earlier this week That Kevin Love is not available I've I've literally talked to a handful of executives about this And one of them just rolled their eyes at that statement Kevin Love, for the right price, is tradable from the Keleland Cavaliers. Do you think that's a perfect fit? That's a perfect fit. It is.

And for Portland, it's just a matter of if you can put together enough assets. They have the salary filler. They have, you know, Simons. I don't think I would give up Simons in that deal. I'd try to give picks. But for Portland, dude, you know, you look at this team and you look at the opportunity that's out there in the NBA, this season, and next. there's a window here for a team like Toronto just did last year

to just jump through and have an opportunity to win a championship. And for Portland, when you have Damian Lillard at his peak powers and C.J. McCollum being who he is with some talent on that roster, there's an opportunity here. And I think if you're Portland, you got to go all in. I mean, you and I, Chris, we've talked a long time about which teams need to blow it up, which teams need to forget about going for a title. I think right now you look at the landscape of the league.

I look at Portland as a team, like, screw the future. Go all in now. Go get in the mix while you've got these two amazing perimeter players in their brides. I think this is a year for that. Granted, Lakers are superpower. Clippers are as well with Paul George returning next week in all likelihood. But still in a seven-game series in the postseason, there's a real opportunity here. I think Portland needs to go all in.

No, and you've got those I mean, look, you've got those three guys, you get into a playoff series, and that threesome could score you 80. Sure, yeah. And now you're just mixed and matching around the rest, and, you know, you get Nurkich. He's a great fit by Love.

To me, you know what I mean? Like, because he's your traditional, like, big man do the dirty work, and Love can obviously stretch the floor and he is a rebounding machine when you throw him down low. Playmaking machine, too. I mean, Kevin Love, Kevin Love this year.

By the way, we might have touched on this before, but I am loving. No pun intended, the Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson pick and rolls that Cleveland is running. It is so dang fun to watch. And Tristan Thompson, like, he's on a contract year as well. It feels like Cleveland is just force feeding him the ball, trying to increase his value as well. Average 17 points on a career high, 13.9 field goal attempts. Ooh, unreal. You know how you talk to?

earlier in the year about how there's less teams in bad shape than in years prior and that is absolutely true when you were flipping around on league pass. Even the crappy teams are pretty fun to watch. Dude, the team with the two worst records in the league, the Knicks at 1 and 7,

you still look at RJ Barrett and you're like, oh, yeah, fun, fun, nuance, Pelicans, one and six. I mean, it goes without saying all the own talent they have on their team. the fun, you know, fun, up and down the league right now is pretty impressive. Even Golden State losing Stefan Curry, you see Pascal scoring 34 points earlier this. No, no, no. You went too far.

You went too far. I was testing the limits. Yeah. I was testing you. I don't know if, well, if it was a test, then I passed because I was not good. Yeah. That's when you were going to get me. All right.

I know. I wouldn't say, go and say this fun. I'm not going to how fun it is to watch Eric Pascol score 30 points. All right, let me get to returns. So there was going to be a lot of returns to the former teams. Kemble Walker, very emotional night last night. Big video tribute to him, many standing ovations. And so that was nice.

We have a couple that are coming up that we know we're not going to be that nice, Kyrie Irving, Anthony Davis later in the year. Kauai Leonard will inevitably get a standing O in Toronto. Next week, we've got two of them. One amazing, one bad. One is going to be, it's back-to-back nights. November 14th, Porzingis goes back to New York, November 15th. Mike Conley comes back to Memphis.

So those are going to be two totally different situations, right, that you are with Porzingis being introduced in New York and then Conley being introduced in Memphis. But the Kemble one was a super nice moment, and you saw how much those fans loved and appreciated a guy that they lived and died with and rooted for for the last, you know, eight years. That made me so happy to see that. Yeah, and then Kemba and the Celtics kicked their ass.

And here's the thing. Let me talk about this. Celtics 6 and 1. I got a 21 point win last night. This is what we got to talk about. We got to talk about Gordon Hayward. 2010 and 6. He is averaging on the season now.

20 points, 8 rebounds, almost 5 assists. He's got a 23 P.E.R so far this year. 56% from the field, 44% from 3. And these are his last four games. 21, 10 rebounds, 7 assists, 13 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists. 39.7 rebounds, 8 assists, 20.10 rebounds, 6 assists. This is what the Celtics

threw out that big contract to get. My God, he has been awesome, Kevin. He looks all the way back. This sort of confirms what every single player on the Celtics was saying at Media Day in September. It confirms stuff that, you know, it's heard about behind the scenes from Celtics sources or sources around the league that he looks good.

and we're seeing it right now. Hayward is getting to the basket more frequently than he did last season. It's comparable to his numbers his final year in Utah. He's shooting the ball with increased confidence on pull-ups against contact on drives towards the rim. He's playing with an aggression that was just non-existent this past season in Boston. And for this roster moving forward, with Hayward being back, I feel confident saying that even though it's only been seven games. With Hayward being back, Tatum making a leap.

He has been sensational on the defensive end of the floor and has also been a lot better on the offensive end too because of his willingness to attack the basket and not settle early in the clock for mid-range jumpers. Tatum being better, Brown being better, Hayward being back, Kemba in this roster overall having so much better chemistry. Boston, they are still not.

not better than Milwaukee and Philadelphia, but they're a lot closer than I thought they were. And you got to think, what is the move they can make to put themselves on the same level or even over the top in the Eastern Conference? I don't know if that move is out there, but they have to be looking for it.

Because again, same thing we just talked about with Portland, Chris. There's an opportunity here with this team and the progress that's been made. But I think they need to find one more guy out there, maybe a big man, a rim running big man. Because, I mean, look, Canter and the Time Lord, that's not good enough, especially when you're talking about the guys

you're going to have to go up against. Cancer and the Time Lord. That sounds like a high school band name or something like that. Canter and the Time Lord. Somebody should name their high school band, Cantor and the Time Lord. Maybe we can name Ringer Band,

can't turn the time Lord. Or maybe we just change the name of this podcast. Yeah, I know. Here's the thing. They have to get another big, because those teams that you were talking about, you've got to deal with M-Bed and mega-size on that Philly team and Toronto or with Milwaukee. You're not dealing with massive size, even though Brooke Lopez and Robin Lopez will surely get down in the paint in playoff time and be able to grab rebounds.

But you need the extra fouls and you need more attention for Yannis who needs a big guy. You know, he will crush your Gordon Haywards and Jason Taylor. of the world. Like, you do need more size on that Boston team. And, and I would, I would presuppose that they are, they will acquire it. But with the eye towards that future and here's the teams we're going to have to be going up against. And even to a lesser extent, they got some big guys on Miami and they got some big guys on Toronto to deal with. So you're right. It's a good start. Extremely good on the perimeter. But they need more size for the playoffs. That is for sure. I tweeted about this last night and somebody suggested Clint Capella from the Rockets.

And whether he's available or not, you know, it's hard for Boston to put together the financial pieces to actually make that deal work. I think the guy you have to look at is someone like Duane Dedman on the Sacramento Kings. So they signed to about, I'm serious, about 13. Oh, no, you're just, you're just touching a nerve. Because when they signed him and I tweeted out about it and I was like, what the hell? You know, I get, I get you all hate Colley Stein, but enough already. Dwayne Deadman is one of those guys where everybody watched him twice a year playing against their favorite team or caught him on league pass every once in a while and then

had this grand opinion of how good he is. He's a solid player. He's okay. I mean, he's a function of playing for Budenhouser. I mean. Well, now he can be a function of playing for Brad Stevens. if a deal. No, no, no.

I get it, right? He might be perfect for him, right? But, I mean, I don't think that, I don't think that Dwayne Dedman in his, I don't think you can throw him in any situation and he's going to be some kind of fantastic or he was some kind of a steal. He's just overrated. That's all I'm saying. And he's overpaid at $13.3 million this season and next.

And yet, for some reason, Sacramento signs him for this money and they're playing him only 18 minutes per game. And they got 600 centers. Yeah. I mean, that's the other stupid thing. We already know they don't know what they're doing with Vladi Divac as general manager there. And I also don't know why Vivek gave him a four-year deal. But that's a whole other situation.

Well, my point is that if you're Boston, I think those are the types of players that fans have to have in mind for them. It's not the 20 million plus dollar of players. It's the guys in that $6 to $14 million range where you can. package together smaller salaries or maybe get a younger guy. I just don't know what that move is for Boston. Maybe it turns out Cantor and Tice or enough. I don't think so. If they can get a move that's an upgrade over Tice pushing Cantor to the bench

where he can maximize his scoring and minimize any defensive weaknesses, I think that's the goal for Boston, is finding that upgrade over Tice. Hey, you know, here's a quick little aside. here's a note you might like on the Sacramento front and I know that we have been crapping on them and they have, you know, they were, it looked like they were on a big forward trajectory and that has been.

They were overrated last year. It's been a train wreck. They had like the 22nd ranked half-court offense overrated last year. Yeah, but they had an extremely good full court offense and here's what I will tell you. They didn't want to play half-court basketball last year and this is why the little side note.

So you know, I know that entire. staff that was there. It was all the staff that was in Memphis for many years. So I know all those guys. Now, one of the guys on the staff is now the Memphis Hustle G League coach, Jason March, who is a fantastic guy. And so a lot of the guys have come in town and they have been here supporting them. So I've run into a lot of guys from the past who have been in Sacramento for the last three years. And I will just tell you this, that this is not a indictment necessarily of what is going on now, even though that whole staff and Yeager look better in retrospect with the way they were getting to Sacramento to play last year.

But this is one thing they did tell me about how fast they played last year and that they will go. And of course, they watch their old team because it's, you know, they spend a lot of time with those guys. It's like checking your ex's Instagram to see. Probably so. But that they noticed that they, that it's a different level of shape this year. And they're playing different for sure. but that they knew that when they had Fox, that they were going to have to,

they were going to be able to outrun everybody and that in fourth quarters, other teams were going to wear down. And that is exactly what happened. It's why they were on the cusp of the playoffs last year. But they said like their whole training camp and beginning of the season last year, they literally had trash cans all around the court.

That's how much they ran those guys. They ran them every day. And of course, NBA players hated it. but they ran and ran and ran what they call sevens, ran and ran and ran and that the players would come to the sideline and be like they, they're done, they're done like in the fourth quarter. Like it was like when it paid off, they were happy about it because they could keep running off the rim in the fourth quarter

while the other teams couldn't. And I thought that was a fascinating thing about kind of how they had success with that team last year and that they thought a key component was they were in unbelievable physical shape. And when you have a lot of young horses like that and you're still racing down the court in the fourth quarter, a lot of teams can't. And that this year it's not the same. I get the numbers behind that, Chris. I looked this up recently and just pulled it up again right now as you were talking because I asked Luke Walton about this. You know, when I was in New York earlier this week, I asked Walton before a game,

you guys are playing at a slower pace than the team did last season, how much of that is by design. And, you know, long answer short, he basically said, no, we want to play fast. I don't really buy that because of, you know, as you said, Chris, they are playing differently, and that shows them the numbers. Last season, after defensive rebounds, Sacramento's average possession time, according to Inpredictable.com was 10.3 seconds. That ranked third fastest in the NBA. After turnovers, their average possession time was 7.7 seconds, which ranked second in the NBA.

This season, after defensive rebounds, it's 11.6 seconds, which ranks 25th. And then after turnovers, it's 9.2 seconds, which ranks 21st. So they went from the top three after defensive rebounds and turnover. into the bottom 10 this season. The numbers actually back this up. And they're also going at a slower possession time after made shots as well. Last year, they ranked third after made shots.

This year they rank 11th. So they're still moving at a fairly fast pace after makes, but after rebounds and after turnovers, they're moving significantly slower. So I don't really buy that it's not by design, but maybe it's more about what you touched on with your story, Chris, about maybe actually the training

and the intense that's happening at practices and training camp. It could be that. It could also just be a small sample. It could be teams getting back on defense more. I don't know everything. But they're definitely moving slower and that works to their disadvantage,

not their advantage. Here's me betting that Luke Walton did not run them into the ground. But I do know that those guys did get run into, I mean, that's a guy's honest truth. Guys were throwing up at their training camp. That's how much they had to run. And it was, you know, it was the method behind the madness, right?

Yeah. And they did play fast and they had a lot of success. They outperformed what we thought they were going to do last year. And they are underperforming what we thought, even with the Bagley loss, they are underperforming this year compared to what we thought they would be, even if they were overrated, even if they weren't. We thought they were going to be better this year than they had. have been, they have been a surefire disappointment early in the season.

Oh, yeah. I definitely thought they'd be more competitive than what we've seen so far. It's disappointing, man. I mean, like, I feel bad for Kings fans. You come into the season with high hopes. And then through eight games, you get the third worst net rating in the league. You're two and six. You're one of your best young players in Bagley's out.

You're questioning the front office and the coaching and ownership. It's just that after one impressive season, it goes back to, feeling how it did before. That sucks. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it. Do you want to remind everybody today's episode brought to you by Sideline. Support for today's show comes from Sideline, the only free prediction machine that helps you win cash while you watch live sports. If you're listening to this show, chances are you love the NBA, and why wouldn't you? Maybe it's Joel and Bede clowning Hassan Whiteside. Maybe it's James Harden somehow making math exciting. Maybe it's

Donovan Mitchell hitting a big shot and proving once again that he should have won rookie of the year. Don't at me, Ben Simmons. Regardless of what your reason for watching is the NBA is must-see-TV. What if I told you you could win money? While you're tuning into these games, you're going to watch anyway. That's where sideline comes in. It's not all insidery like daily fantasy sports,

and it's not complicated like live prop betting. It's fun, and it's super easy to play. Just join the game before tip-off, and you get the chance to make picks in real time during the game. All you have to do is answer. questions like how will Kauai Leonard score his next points? Or who will hit more threes in the next five minutes? Kemble Walker or Kyrie Irving?

Answer six questions right? And you just won real cash faster than you can say, Donovan Mitchell was robbed. Sideline. The game about the game. Download it now by searching sideline sports in Apple App Store. Or visit winsideline.com. That's winsideline.com.

do want to tell you about one team that I saw in person. I saw Minnesota in person the other night, and here's just a few things that stood out. I got a ton of feedback on talking about after seeing Phoenix in person last week. I can't tell you how many pictures of McKell Bridges' arms I received over the course of the past week. But I saw Minnesota in person, and here's a few things that stood out to me. They need an alpha dog terribly. It was the role that Jimmy Butler filled, and I don't know if, you know, they can find another guy that is like that. And clearly, not all the guys responded to his leadership method, even though they're clearly responding to it in Miami so far.

But, you know, Towns isn't that guy. Like, he's not the guy that is going to yell at everybody and get everybody. He is an immensely talented player. That is without question. You know Wiggins is a passive guy. And then the other guys aren't good enough to really be the guy. Now, I saw them in a game where they had to play Jared Culver at point guard because they did not have Napier available and they didn't have Teague available. And that's not an amazing rotation either.

But you notice when you see them, when things started going wrong, I always watch this with teams. When things start going the wrong way, like who's the guy? And they don't have the guy that is like the unquestioned leader of that team. The second thing is the rent has come due on paying towns and Wiggins, you know, and then not having a lot of money for the rest of it. And in addition to that, you know, the draft, which they have, you know, it's Pelican-esque in what they did around Davis because you go back to 15 and they traded all their picks, but they traded it for Tyos Jones, who they let Walk in Free Agency.

The next year is Chris Dunn for after the, the bad season and we know he was traded in the Jimmy Butler deal. The next year is Lori Markinen. He was traded in the Jimmy Butler deal, as was Levine, who was the year prior. And then we have Josh Okoji, who's only in the second year, so impossible to judge.

And then Culver, who both of us do like and was a function of the Dario Saris trade. But they have not built around towns. I know I'm not, you know, I'm preaching to the choir here. But they have, the draft has not been their way of building around towns and the butler thing failing really highlights that they have nothing to show from the drafts post towns and then here is the other thing Kevin that stands out to me you know the the locker rooms are open after every game right I've got a

I've got co-workers that go in and cover visiting locker rooms every you know so they'll tell me like what their locker room was like after after the games there was music playing and guys were like goofing around, cracking jokes and whatnot and whatever. I mean, they just got beat by the frigging grislies by 16 points. And that is, I mean, and their coach, Ryan Saunders, was mega pissed. But that just tells me everything I need to know about a team. I hate to say that. And you can say that's old school.

But like, if you're in the locker room after 16, I promise you, there are not good teams in this league that, get their ass kicked and have music playing and are goofing around and everybody smiling and, you know, playing games in the locker room. It just doesn't happen. It does not happen. And, you know, then you go look at their roster. They have no veterans. What are they got?

Like, Teague. So, like, who's the guy that says turn that shit off? You know, you guys should be upset. We just got our ass kicked. Like, why is everybody goofing around here? And I don't know. This Rosas guy has got a job ahead of him there. I know this is not his doing

but that cannot be and I would be incensed to know that if I were a fan that I am I'm pissed off about the game seemingly more so than some of the players on the team You know it's obviously I was not in that locker room so I can't speak to it directly but you know with Carl Anthony Towns he is somebody in the past

I remember I wrote an article about him I think the 2016-17 season about the leap he was going through in the second half of that year. And there was a great clip of him just really down on himself and down on the team after a loss. He had an awesome game. He scored like 40 points what they lost. And he was pissed off after the game. Carl has any towns as somebody who does have that mentality that you describe where he hates losing.

But he is not a vocal guy. And I think this is a situation if that, you know, is exactly what happened. And it's like where Towns needs to be the guy who really is like, what are we doing here? Like turn that off. We should be pissed off. We just lost the bat. As you would say, Chris, that rat team. Well, and he's got to be, he's got to be the guy.

He does because they don't have anybody else, right? Like, Jimmy Butler would fight you if you weren't mad about losing. And I'm not saying you got to have somebody that's going to fight you, but you also, there has to be someone. You know, and Covington is a dog, but, you know, he's not going to be. He's not going to stand up and say, hey, no, he's not that. Like, they need an alpha vocal. Like, I do think that that was why they were extended the way they were wins wise with Butler on that team. They need that kind of guy, that dogmatic type of leader.

By the way, in that game, we can't let this go by. In that game, Memphis won over Minnesota. Brandon Clark off the bench, 18 points on 7 of 7. shooting, eight rebounds, two assists. Same quintessential Brandon Clark that he was in college. Just putting up numbers, playing well on both ends of the floor.

I still have not heard a good reason why he fell out of the top 20. I don't get it. He's a top 10 prospect on my board. I stand by that, and I don't understand why he fell. Well, you know this. Come on.

We do this every year. It's age, blah, blah, blah. That's not a good reason. It's not a good reason. They're ageist. You know who one guy? I will tell you that when I was preparing my article to put it together. And the only reason I didn't have Clark in my article is not because I didn't like him

was because everybody at the ringer was in absolute love. Right? So it was like, all right, what am I going to? Like, I got to pick other people because every, you guys were all super high on him. I mean, Charks had a, you know, a Clark Gonzaga jersey for God's sakes. Oh, okay. A back tattoo. Yeah.

I'm not kidding. Yeah. And so he, I'm not kidding. Chart? Yeah, he's got a back tattoo of Brandon Clark. I love to start.

Please start this rumor. So that we have to see charting. So charts is going to have to take his shirt off. I'm not kidding. But well, you know, I can't wait. I can't wait.

I can't wait. people are going to demand to see George's tattoo. Here's the thing. Agist and you know who won? Because I went back and pulled my notes early in the season about what different executives, college coaches, et cetera, said to me when I called around about all these guys. The one that I had listed out was somebody said to me another Larry Nance.

That's who they told me Brandon Clark was. He's better than Larry Nance. That's what they told me, I promise. Who said that? I want to know. I'm not going to tell you. He's better than Larry Nance. Come on, man. I'm like Larry Nance is a good player, but

Brandon Clark is so much better. That's what they told me. That was what was on my note. It said another Larry Nance. By the way, Larry Nance, got to give credit to him for improving his three-point shot. Just saying, it's been shooting like three. He's a pretty good player.

He's a good player. I'm not knocking him. I just, I love Brandon Clark. Oh, everybody does. And look, he gets all the same. college shots.

He takes two dribbles. He gets six feet away from the basket, and he's got this little floater he hits. Oh, that floater. And then he dunks. Boy, I love that floater. And then he dunks, and that's like,

do what you're good at. I always talk about this. Do what you're good at. And he has got... That's what Brandon Clark's always going to do. He's going to have a 10 plus year career. It's going to be a highly successful player. And every single season,

people are going to be like, wow, steal the drafts. Well, you know, he and Morant have the two highest PERs for what that's worth. in the league for rookies. You know what's funny about Memphis, not to go down, talk too much about your team,

but it's like, Jaron Jackson also has not been great so far. He's struggled. Not been great. He's not even on the court. I know. He hasn't produced, and it's kind of weird.

Well, it's because he's foul. He gets too early foul. But I know, I know. That was my thing with him pre-drafts. And I was really dumb to rank him behind Mobamba.

why am I even admitting to that? I don't know. Why am I even admitting to that? Why did I say that? I don't know. But you know what? And I let you off, though. I wasn't even going to bring up you wanted R.J. Baird over John Moran.

I wouldn't even going to do that. But the following aspects with Jaron Jackson, that was a big concern than I had. Pre-draft. And it still has not gotten better. You can get past the foul stuff and hopefully he grows out of that. And it has been an ongoing thing for three years. The big thing is, you can't get discouraged when you get the fouls and let that then take you out of the game.

And that is what has befelled him early in the year. So honestly, have not seen John Morant and Jaron and Jaron Jackson play much basketball together. As crazy as that sounds. Pretty wild. But Morant is superstar written all over here. He looks so good. I have never been happier my life to get to watch this kid play every night.

Isn't it good to suck Chris and have high graphics? Isn't it nice? Isn't it fun? They were supposed to convey their pick. Yeah. They won 30-something games. They didn't suck that bad. You weren't the bright futures.

I know, I know. Like I said, it's good to have high picks. That's my only point. It's nice to have high draft picks. It's nice to get lucky. I know. That's, yes. And your odds are increased of getting lucky the higher pick you have.

Oh, here we go again. Yeah. And you get a guy down the street in Memphis, James Wiseman, who looked on, dude, he looked like Yao Ming next to those scrawny kids on the other team. It's like one game, but James Wiseman in that game. I'm going to see him tonight, too, against the, who is it, Illinois, Chicago or something? I mean, it's another team that he's, no, he's Freakow. The big question with him entering the season with his, was his intensity. Like, because sometimes he's a player who would, you know, be disengaged, at lose,

focus, his energy would come and go. But in that first game, he was on the entire freaking game. And if he's going to be that player, the whole season, he's the number one pick if he this continues. And he needs to keep this up.

Last thing before we get out of here today, you wrote a college preview earlier the week. So I'm glad you brought up Wiseman, who was a very highly ranked player in this upcoming class. I saw some of, I watched some of Kentucky, Michigan, State. I saw or

and then Kansas Duke which my God Kansas. It was like 30 turnovers or some crap. I was at ridiculous. I was at those games in New York and boy was that ugly basketball. Oh my God. I didn't. I didn't. How about this? I'm driving home from the

I'm driving home from that T. Wool's game I was at the other night and I checked my app and it I swear to God I thought the Virginia Syracuse was a half-time score that my app had wrong. Did you see that? No, I did.

I mean, that's two premieres. Hold on. What night was that? Wednesday night? I'm gonna check this while you're out of me. College season started Tuesday, so it might have been Tuesday. No, it was Wednesday night that I was at that game, though. It was like 40 to 30 something.

I swear to God it was the other night. This was the final score, Kevin. 48 to 34, Virginia. What the hell? Wow. I thought it was halftime. 48 to 34, Virginia Syracuse on Wednesday night. All that zone defense and Syracuse holding.

Come on, man. That is ridiculous. All right. So there have been games going on. You saw some of the games the other night at Madison Square Garden. Give me some guys, especially when the weekend's going on and I'm flipping around and now you notice that college basketball is on. Give me some guys I should go out of my way to watch.

Well, I mean, the guy this week that everybody was talking about was Kentucky's Tyrese maxi. He had an outstanding first game. He was really in the two games that I saw in New York with a New Ringer co-worker, Jay Kyle, man. Tyrese Maxie was the only guy that really stood out in those two games. He's six three, scoring guard, very fast pace, gets buckets. He has a awesome floater. It's very nice. He can transition so seamlessly from his dribble into that floater from mid-range. He can create from the perimeter hit three of his seven three-pointers in that performance. And he's also just like a really fun, you know, high character kid, too. That showed him in his postgame presser shows him, you know,

it's consistent with what I've heard that he's a good kid. So he's one guy that I'm really, really excited about from what we saw this week already. If you're looking for the sleepers or guys to keep an eye on, in my article this week, I mentioned Arkansas sophomore wing Isaiah Joe. he is projects realistically as a 3 and D style player. As a freshman, he hit 41% of his near 3003 point attempts, but he's not just a standstill shooter. He can be somebody who hits one or two dribble jumpers,

somebody who can shoot off screens, pull up off the catch and transition. But in his debut this season, he did show a bit more diversity as a scorer off the dribble. and it's just interesting to monitor moving forward from Arkansas. Not that you're going to be tuning into Arkansas games, not that you're going to find them on national TV necessarily, but in his first game he scored 24 points on 10 of 18 shooting

and did quite a bit off the dribble leading to also 7 assists. So Isaiah Joe is one guy to keep a close eye on if you see Arkansas on TV or you want to find an illegal stream out there, watch an Arkansas game. You know, They've got my guy, Eric Musselman there now. Coaching at Arkansas, a longtime NBA guy. Father was one of the elder statesmen of the NBA Bill Musselman

and just built that Nevada program into something great over the course of a couple of years. And now he's now at Arkansas after Mike Anderson's up north. I just went and looked up this Tyrese Maxie kid. We got to ask sharks about him too. the Brandon Clark tattoo having Jonathan Charks. He's from his stomping grounds in Dallas. Max, he is? How about this one?

When I just pulled him up, this is the funniest thing. It says he chose Kentucky over SMU. And that's not huge on the surface, considering the kids from Dallas. And so SMU, which is the home team, might have had a shot at him.

But I was like, that is, you know, it's usually like Kentucky over Duke and Kentucky over North Carolina or whatever. right? But then you go down and his father, Tyrone Maxie, was the director of recruiting for the SMU Mustang's basketball team in 17. His dad was the director of recruiting at SMU and they didn't get him.

Caliperi still got this kid to Kentucky and the kid's dad was literally the director of recruiting. They made the right choice. honestly. I'm just being real. Didn't he have to call and tell his dad? I'm sorry. I'm going to Kentucky. What the hell? What a waste of money for SMU, huh? That is. Maybe they just didn't have the money. No, I'm saying, but they obviously paid him to do the job. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? That's what I'm saying.

Oh, I see. I thought we were going down the college corruptions. No. not college corruption. I'm saying this is above board corruption. We hired your dad to be in charge of our recruiting. And somehow he did not deliver his own son. That's the worst. Holy mackerel.

That kid is a good grief. I mean, he was five star all across the board, top 10 high school player. So unsurprising that he would be awesome. But hell of a debut with 26 over Michigan State is a hell of a debut. Sure. And by the way, just one note on this draft. Had this a article this week if you want to check that out.

It's called a 2019-20 college basketball primer for the NBA fan. That's on the ringer.com. But, you know, talking to executives and scouts around the league, the most consistent takeaway about this draft is just how guard heavy it is. Like over half the first round could end up being one guards or two guards. in a traditional sense. It's going to be a guard-heavy drafts. We mentioned Maxie.

There's Cole Anthony from North Carolina, Georgia's Anthony Edwards. There's a handful of guards in college basketball. Never mind the guys that we've talked about from international, you know, playing internationally right now, La Mello Ball, R.J. Hampton. This is going to be a lot of guards. And it might be headline, though, by the big we mentioned James Wiseman. But just something to keep in mind, keep in mind that a lot of guards will be entering the league in the 2020.

drafts. Kevin, have an unbelievable weekend. I will talk to you on Tuesday. I'm looking forward to it, Chris. Have a great weekend, man, everybody, and everybody else as well. Thanks, everybody for listening to another episode of the Ringer NBA show, The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you on Tuesday.