The Ringer NBA Show - Is LeBron James Catching Up in the MVP Race? Plus: How the Coronavirus Might Affect the Rest of the Season | The Mismatch

Episode Date: March 10, 2020

Kevin wonders whether LeBron James should be getting more serious consideration for the MVP award, which leads us to a knock-down, drag-out fight about whether or not Khris Middleton is a top-20 player in the NBA (0:40). Then, with the coronavirus threatening to affect the NBA regular season, we imagine what it might be like if games have to be played without fans (36:40). Host: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber, A.K.K. Kevin O. Climber, Kavanaugh, Kevin O'Conflict. Kevin O'Conflict. The bearded Bumble God. Kevin!

Burno. What's going on, man? Well, first things first. Since we last spoke, I saw that you were at the Lakers Clippers game just a few days ago. It was a light night in the NBA last night. and we'll get to what mattered. But first, that Sunday afternoon game, which took center stage,

which saw the Lakers, beat the Clippers, LeBron getting vaulted into the MVP narrative, you know, both feet in. And I saw that you were there in that arena. Give me your biggest takeaways from being there Sunday.

Well, if there's a Lakers Clippers playoff series, it's all Lakers home games, you know? And in that crowd, it was maybe 60s, 40 Lakers fans or maybe even 70-30. I would say like if with sound it felt closer to 50-50, but when I'm looking around,

I saw more Lakers jerseys, more Lakers fans cheering. Okay. So let me take a quick time out real quick, okay? This is a 20-second one. How is that? Does that mean the Clipper fans are all selling their tickets for a premium rate, right? Like they're looking and they're going, all right, I'm going to put these tickets on because I can make a ton of money back.

because theoretically, season tickets are very high for Clippers games too. And so if you get that kind of discrepancy in the crowd, that means Clippers fans have sold their tickets to Lakers fans, I would think. Sure. So the way it happens, right? I'm sure that's an element of it. But there's also just more Lakers fans that before the season, you know, when tickets go on sale on whatever date in August or September,

they're just buying tickets because, you know, they're just buying tickets for another LA game. No, I get the single tickets, but that doesn't make up for what would be the majority of the arena, which are season tickets. That's what's crazy to me. Hey, man. If you look at the difference between Lakers games and Clippers games, like on StubHub, on Seek and all these resale sites, you can get Clippers seats like the day of the game for like $20. And Lakers games, it is like a minimum of like $150 for. No, I get it.

Listen, I understand. And I am not, I'm not here to judge. I have had friends. I've had friends, you know, during that warrior run, I've had friends sell Grizzlies Warriors tickets and make back a third of their season ticket deposit. Just on one game. It's pretty wild, man. It's not a bad way to make money.

If you're a season ticket holder of a contending team. Oh, look. And also it's hard to make 41 games. Let's be real, right? If you do do a full season ticket package of 41 games, you're not going to make all those games. Hey, I'll tell you a quick story real quick. This is years ago when I was young, I had just gotten married and I told my wife, I said, hey, I've got this idea because we didn't have much money. And I was like, I got this idea.

I always see tickets going for crazy amounts on eBay, like SEC football tickets, right? And I'm like, so here's what I'm going to do. In the summer, I'm going to buy them. Like, I'm going to look at the schedule and I'm going to predict what are going to be the biggest games. And I'm going to go and I'm going to find them on eBay. And then the week of the game, I'm going to flip them, all right? And so this is going to be, yeah, this is going to be my big money venture. So I scouted out a game.

I mean, this is over a decade ago. So I scouted out a game. It was when Tennessee and Florida were both in their absolute heydays. and they were going to be playing in like the third week of the season. And so I went on eBay and I found this guy selling them off. He had first row in zone tickets, first row, okay? And so I buy the tickets and I think I spent like maybe, I don't know, maybe a little over $300, which was a lot for us at the time, for sure.

I end up buying them for like $300 something. In week one of that season, Tennessee goes to UCLA and loses in. overtime. And now their season is going to be this disappointment. So what was, hey, it was going to be two top five teams playing against each other. That's what I predicted because I know more than everybody, right? And so I'm going to, I'm going to sell these tickets. No lie. Long story short, by the time the game came around, I could not get rid of. I ended up selling them for like $70 a piece. By the time the game came I lost like $250.

And it was the last time I ever tried to flip tickets again. It feels easy. But some things have to break the right way. That's for sure. I'll tell you this, the people that bought Warriors tickets everywhere thinking they were going to be able to flip them this year. They have taken a bath on those. That's for sure because Steph Curry hadn't been in any of these markets when he's been playing.

But back to the game. You're saying 70-30 Lakers? Yeah, 60-40, 70-30, something like that. It was definitely balanced in the Lakers favor. And that makes for a really cool atmosphere. I mean, it was like that on opening night between these teams. It was like that. I wasn't there for the Christmas game,

but it was like that on Sunday as well. And it's just really fun, like the closest comparable that I can think of is a, you know, a sweet 16 or an elite eight game, you know, where it's a 50, 50, 60, 40 crowd and teams are chair, fans are chairing for each team. It's fun. It's a great atmosphere to watch a basketball game.

And I really do hope we get that in the playoffs. It would be really awesome to see that, especially if the games are as good as they have been between these two teams. I mean, on Sunday, LeBron James down the stretch of that game was just magnificent with him hunting Lou Williams and then hunting Marcus Morris. It was a lot of fun to see those micro strategies happening in the game with them attacking the weakest opponent and the Clippers with the way that they are willingly switching Morris. and the way they were trying to avoid switching Lou Williams. And that's something that in the playoffs, it's going to be interesting to see how the Clippers do account for that, regardless of the matchup,

because teams are going to hunt Lou. So they're going to have to pre-switch or just blitz or hedge with Lou Williams in order to avoid having the switch. It was fun to watch that down the stretch of the game. And on that night, on that day, rather, was a 1230 game. LeBron James came out victorious with that matchup. Well, and it does feel like, as the season is going on, and I know we have had different players playing in some of the different

games, we could probably just throw the first one out completely. But it almost feels like a playoff game where the team that loses is always the one that is going to make more adjustments, right? And so you have this Laker team that's now gotten to see them a few times like, okay, how do we, what do we want to expose? How do we want to attack them? And I do think that if these teams are indeed on a collision course to meet each other in the playoffs, there is like no chance. It doesn't go to, I mean, six would be the minimum, but probably go seven games with both teams being able to expose different areas of the, I don't feel like either one of them is significantly better than the other.

I mean, this could be an amazing Western Conference Finals. Well, we have gotten some great ones, especially Houston Warriors recently. Last year's was a dud, but we've gotten some pretty great Western Conference finals recently. But this one, this could be absolutely epic. I'm not sure which of those two teams I feel is better if they faced each other. I'm not, the fact that there's 18 games left to go in the season, and I don't know who I would pick in that. I really don't. I would pick the Lakers.

I picked them before the season. I'd pick them now. And I'm going to pick them to win in the playoffs as well, assuming that they're healthy. We saw on Sunday that they have a championship level defense. They do. They can play big if they need to. They can play a little bit smaller if they need to as well.

Not that they had to in that game. But they can play different styles and take on different shapes, depending on the opponent, just like the clippers can. The clippers have more guard depth. They got more depth all around, they do. They have a better roster.

know, three to ten, four to ten, whatever way you want to look at it. But the Lakers, they are not without, you know, quality depth either. They have guys that can pop off or guys who have solid individual skills. Like Danny Green scored zero points in Sunday. Yeah, but Avery Bradley went off. And Avery Bradley went off. And that's not going to happen every night. Sometimes that might be the inverse.

They have guys who can have big performances. Kuzma has been struggling offensively had only eight points, but he can have games where he can have. he pops off, right? They have guys that can do that. It's not like they have just absolute garbage depth. However, their death isn't as good as some of the other contending teams. And that's where LeBron James, it sort of gets to that MVP debate.

Last week, you said to me that, no, it's Janus, like, this is over. And I was like, well, wait a minute here. There's still a month to go. I'm curious about your thoughts on the overall media reaction, fan reaction, to the Lakers wins over the bucks and the clippers, should the reaction, should the needle be moving that much in LeBron's favor after two games? Have you changed your thoughts as well since last Tuesday

when we first spoke about this? Absolutely not. This is what I talk about all time. They're on national TV all the time, and they are the biggest conversation piece. If you put LeBron James in the title of any podcast, of any show, if you are talking about LeBron James, it's going to get clicked, it's going to get views,

it's going to get listens, whatever it may be. Also, if you put them on national TV, everybody's going to watch. Look, I don't, I think there are a lot of people, and a lot of people whose basketball opinions I respect, who have probably watched less than 10 full bucks games the entire season that will have a vote for the MVP. And yet they have watched LeBron play 40 times, because we all have, because it's always on.

And so the more somebody's on television, and the more they're going to be setting the narrative on national television. And then they are going, like, you can debate about Janus and people don't, people don't have the same interest level. But there is no indication that he's not having a better season. All the advanced metrics, like everything, everything points to it. And he has got, his second best player is like Chris Middleton, whereas the second best player on the Lakers is Anthony Davis.

And allow me to remind you that even. in the All-Star game when those two were matched up against each other, it was, to me, it was perfectly symbolic because they were matched up against each other at the top of the key. Everybody's waiting for this moment. And LeBron threw it to Anthony Davis, which he can all season long if he needs to. Anthony Davis is one of the best five guys in basketball and he's on his team. And so if we're talking about MVP, who is truly most valuable, what, how many wins does that Bucks team have? How many wins? I'm sorry, but I think you're underwriting what Chris Middleton has been this season.

I know Bucks fans will be the first. No, Bucks fans will be the first to say that, dude. Middleton this seat, Middleton, no, no, wait a minute. Middleton this season, I'm not saying he is a top X player, but this season he is performing like a top 20 guy. That's what he's been doing during the 2019-20 season. You can look at all the other years and say, well, no, he's not a top 20 guy.

And I would agree with you. But this season, he's performing. like a top 20 guys. So you can see an Anthony Davis has also been one of the 10 best guys. But Middleton has it been like the 45th best player in the NBA this season. He's been really awesome. He's very important to that team with his shooting ability, his shot creation ability with his defense with his secondary playmaking. Middleton has been awesome for the bucks. So let's not underrate what he's been to the bucks.

Look, we're not underrating it. You can kiss up all you want, Kevin. It's not kissing up, dude. It's not kissing up. You are so full of shit If you want to tell me How do you think this is kissing up? 20 players?

That's what he has been this season. If you're looking only at the 2019-20 season, Kevin, here's what I'm asking you. There is zero percent chance that you don't get to 20 before you pick Chris Middleton on your team. I'm saying specifically this season. If your memory was erased from everything prior to the season,

you would have Middleton in your top. 20 this season. I like Chris Middleton. Chris Middleton's a good player. Chris Middleton is probably a great third wheel. He's not even a second banana. That has been what has held them back. The best player that Yonis has on his team besides him is Chris Middleton.

Okay. All right. On the ringer.com, and maybe you disagree with our staff, in mid-February, February 18th, We had, I think, you know, maybe eight to ten of our staffers vote for their top 25 players of the first 60-ish games. And Middleton came out at 15th of our entire staff. And you can say we're all kissing ass or you can say that we're watching the games this season and voting under the criteria. And that's what Middleton is and has been for the bucks. He has been a top 15, 20, 25 guy, whatever number you want to put on it.

he's been one of the best freaking guys in the league. And so don't act like he's just a third wheel because he's not. Middleton has turned into more than that. And that is shown by our entire staff. It's shown by me. It's shown by a lot of people. And Bucks fan sure as hell know that watch that guy every night. Oh, I know.

He's been awesome. He's been awesome. So don't act like Yonels doesn't have any support. And by the way, Janus's 3 to 10 on the roster are better than what LeBron has. So if you want to talk about strength of the teammates. Yanis has a better team. And if Janus does win MVP, and like I said, let me preface all this. Last week and today, Janus would have the edge for me over LeBron. But that may change because there's still a lot. There's a month to go. And if Janus does win MVP,

he'll have set a record low for minutes per game for any MVP. And depending on the amount of time that he misses from this current knee injury he has, he might play the fewest games of any MVP since Bill Walton in the 78 78 season. And if you don't think games and minutes shouldn't be part of the criteria, I don't know what to say because everybody's talking about Janus's numbers. He has the best numbers. Yes, he does. We get it.

But the MVP doesn't always have the best numbers like Steve Nash in 0405, who won partially because he changed everything in Phoenix. Hold on. He has the best number and the best team. partially like Derek Rose in 2010, 2011, because he changed everything in Chicago. Sometimes it's not all of them. about the numbers. No, he has the best numbers.

It was all about the numbers. James Hardin won over Yonis last year. Kevin. It's not always about the numbers. He has the best numbers and the best team. Right now, right now they're one game ahead of the Lakers and the lost column. And please, I would love, let me, let's do this exercise.

I can't, I can't wait for this. Please, list me off three through 10 for the bucks. Please. I'm begging you. Honestly, Chris, let me just say this. This is going to be a repeat of what you. happened with Middleton. Name the third guy.

Or you're under rating the guys on that team. I can't wait to hear you name the third guy. And you, I can't wait. Brooke Lopez. Holy shit. Brooke Lopez, who has been one of the, Lopez.

Yes, who has been one of the best defense centers in basketball. Dude, you got to be kidding me, Chris. I'm sorry. You've got to be kidding me. I'm dead ass right now.

You got to be kidding me that you're, that's your reaction to Brooke Lopez. You've got to be kidding me. Wait, which one? Hey, hey, hey, maybe you can do your whole. Let's repeat on your, it's not always about the numbers, Chris, because if you want to talk numbers, 11.4 rebounds and a 14 P.E.R. Broke Lopez.

It's not all about the numbers. Of course it is. Because Brooke Lopez is one of the best defensive centers in basketball. There are no centers. What? Brooke Lopez is one of the best defensive centers in basketball. What are we talking about? If anybody hadn't watched the bucks, it ain't me.

Brooke friggin' Lopez in year 35, and he's averaging 11 points and four rebounds. Okay, that's our third best player. Chris, he's one of the best defensive centers in basketball. Okay. And he's important to the way in which they play defense. I don't know. Would their drop style on the pick and roll? Yanis is allowed to roll off ball and just wreak havoc.

He is integral to their defense. One of the best defenses in basketball. He's integral to their success. I can't tell you how many people I've seen look up and thought about driving to the basket, but then they see Brooke Lopez and they go, oh, not going to do that. Well, you're wrong. You just are. You just are.

You just are. I'm sorry. And you can say, oh, he's shooting only 29, 30% from three. You can say that, but you could also say because of the fact that he's, He's a five that's able to space the floor from 30 feet. The spacing that provides helps Janus attack the basket and helps him get his numbers because he's able to space the floor. That's important as well. Brooke Lopez is super important as a role player.

Like I can't. I honestly am just flabbergasted. If we're talking about. That's your reaction. I am shocked. If we are talking about defense, I would take his brother over him who's on the same team. Robin Lopez. I would not, I would not take him as an offensive.

player, but I would certainly take him as a defensive player. Okay. Let's move on. Wesley Matthews, who's been a very, very good. A seven-footer that doesn't rebound, but he is an amazing defender. Oh, my God. Oh, my God is right. I can't even believe I'm hearing this. This guy signed for the minimum like two years ago. What are we talking about for Glopez? Giannis has elevated these guys to make you think something that they're not. Yes. That's what's true.

the other guys, at least Lakers guys. That's true. That's true for any freaking team, dude. That's the point. That's the point of building a roster is building the pieces together around your star. And the Bucks have built an awesome roster around Yannas. They have built the type of team you want with a floor spacing big man who can shoot threes, who can make smart plays, who can defend at a high level with a three and D wing in Wesley Matthews, who can shoot threes, who plays unselfishly, who can.

defend multiple positions with Dante Divencenzzo, a young prospect who's turned into a very, very good two-way player for the Bucks. This is a perfect example of the LeBron Bologna that gets pumped out everywhere, is that do downplay his supporting cast, but then play up how great the Bucks are outside of Yannis, which is just horseshit. That team would be terrible without him. Do we do nothing? Who are we talking about?

I saw them last night, for goodness sake, the guys that they were starting out there. I mean, they didn't play anybody last night. They wouldn't. They wouldn't be terrible. They wouldn't be terrible. I saw their depth. I saw their depth.

They wouldn't be terrible. Their depth last night was Sterling Brown, Robin Lopez, West Matthews, Dionis Ante Coupo, and Pat Coniton, Kyle Corver, DJ Wilson, Frank Mason, Ilyasova coming off the bench. That's who they had. Look, dude.

I'm not saying this as some knock on Janus. All I'm saying is if you're, you're saying like the Bucks have some garbage supporting cast. I'm saying that's not the case. You're saying Chris Middleton's not a top 20 player. I'm saying that he is. You're laughing at Brooke Lopez for being a great defensive player. I'm saying he is a great defensive player and he's important to what they do.

Just like for LeBron and the Lakers, it's not all about LeBron. Of course it's about AD. Of course it's about Danny Green's defense. offensive ability. Of course it's about how Javala McGee rolls to the rim and sets screens and plays with energy. Of course it's about all these things. What I'm just saying is the bucks have a better supporting cast than you're giving that team credit for and that's what makes them finals contenders. It's not just Janus. Just like it's not just LeBron. You're the one that played up three through 10, not me. Their three to three through three, three, three, three, three, ten. It's than the

Lakers. Then the Lakers. Yeah, it is. It's better than the Lakers three to ten. Okay. When three is Brooke Lopez, I'm not sure you're going to convince me on that. But we're allowed to have different opinions. Who's your three of the Lakers? And you and the- Who's your three of the Lakers? Danny Green?

Kyle Cusbell, who's your three in the Lakers? I think if I were, if I'm going to the playoffs and I'm trying to win a game, I think I would take Danny Green. I think that's who I think. I mean, and I'm going to remind you of this when you don't pick the bucks to come out of the east. That's going to be a fun one. Who said I'm not picking the bucks. bucks to come out of the east. You haven't all year. You haven't all year. I haven't? I haven't.

No. When have I not picked the bucks at the beginning of the season? I didn't. I picked the sixers and I was dead. Yeah, but at the beginning of the season, I'm not picking Philly now. Oh. I didn't know you would come off of your prediction. Oh, I'm not picking the Sixers to go to the finals right now. You're going to be kidding me? I mean, come on, Chris. Let's be serious now. I mean, by the way, I mean, like, I hate to say this, but, you know, the other day I was reading this article and it was about, oh, what was it? Hoops hype had it.

Oh, it was the, you know how much I was going to love this. The players that have made the most money on losing teams in their careers. Like they have played for the most amount of losing teams, but made the. the most amount of money. And it wasn't even close. Stefan Marbury was like $30-something million ahead of everybody else. Number two on the list was Nicholas Batum. And number three, 13 of 19 seasons was on a losing team, Elton Brand. And I thought, what does he know about winning?

He's the one running the Sixers now. He made $105 million playing on losing teams. It's crazy. By the way, number four was Rudy Gay. talked about him on Friday. And number five was Kevin Love. How about that? And one other thing.

This isn't has anything to do with MVP. You can use it as MVP, you know, ammo if you want. But the Bucks this season with Yannis off the court and Middleton on the court, outscore team is by eight points per 100 possessions. And that's just one last thing I want to say in support of Chris Middleton as being a guy that the bucks have leaned on when they need to, when Yonis is off the court. I'm not saying Chris Middleton's not good.

Don't get this twisted. Chris Middleston is a fantastic player. I do not think he is a second best player on a championship team. Good. And I certainly don't believe that anybody, and I don't give a damn what the ringer staff voted, that anybody would take them in their top 20 players. If I lined them up and said,

now we're drafting. no way would he go in the top 20. No way. No way. And by the way, I'd imagine. Dude, that exercise in what I said is strictly about this season, the way a guy has performed this season. And that's why he was also named an All-Star,

one of the 24 best guys. I understand. But, I mean, we don't always do things with just this season. Thus, why everybody's talking up LeBron. There is no argument for LeBron over Yannis. except for that he is LeBron James. Yeah, yeah, there is because the Lakers were not favorites in the Western Congress before the season. The Clippers were.

Some people even said the Lakers might have to fight to make the playoffs in the Western Congress. Yeah. Who? Not you, not me, but it was out there. Not Las Vegas. I don't want to say any, yeah, not Las Vegas. I don't want to say any names. Oh, they work for the ringer.

It was out, no, it was. I don't know. I forget who. My memory doesn't work like that. But it was out there in the media world. before the season. And it's out there for if you want it. And by the way,

very few people pick the Lakers to win the finals. So the Lakers weren't favorites. They are exceeding expectations. They were second favorites. I mean, they were as many. Well, I mean,

through the predictions. And also I just, one thing, James and Anthony Davis. One thing I just want to ask you about, though, too, Chris, is why,

why this season is it all about the numbers? And this is coming from someone who is leaning Janus right now. But in the past, it hasn't always been about the numbers. I mentioned Steve Nash winning in 0405 because of the way in which he changed Phoenix when he drove, when he was the engine of that offense of Derek Rose in 2011, when LeBron was better statistically across the board, the Derek Rose. I do not think. I do not think.

Because I, I believe when the numbers are historic numbers, that's when it needs to be about the numbers. And Janice Ante Dacompo is having the greatest PER season of any player in the history of the NBA. It's downright history. So it's not like we're parsing through stats between guys in the same season. And we're saying, we are putting Janus's up against all. time seasons, all time. And he is having a better season, according to many metrics. He is having a historic season. So that's when it becomes about the numbers. When you have a historic season,

when we have been playing basketball for over 75 years, and yet no one has accomplished what this guy is accomplishing this year, and he has the winning thing on his. side to. I mean, I don't, I don't understand. Like, it's not all about the numbers unless you want to tell me where those numbers stack up historically. And at that point, yeah, it becomes about the numbers because this is frigging history. And it would be a miscarriage of justice to deny that. Because all of the arguments that are made to the contrary, then all anybody cares about is numbers now. So that's what's amazing to me. We live in an age where everything is dissected through the numbers rather than me being able to say, I don't care if Chris Middleton is having a

better, you know, season than some other guy. I don't, I'd rather have the other guy. And then you say, well, look at these numbers. I mean, that's how we decide arguments. But if we're talking about why is this year about numbers, it's because of the season that Yonis is having, which his historic season is not getting the credit it deserves because people are bored because they gave him the MVP last year. That's the way it happens. And narrative takes over. And he's not nearly as popular. He's just not. You know what I mean? Look, like I said, as somebody who is leaning Yannis right now, I'm with you. The honest is, and I, but I disagree with the fact that you don't think Yonis is getting the credit that he deserves. Every single

time a media member has done a panel of prior MVP voters, Yannis wins nearly in a landslide. I mean, I think Yonis is getting the credit that he deserves from fans, from media. I think just what we're seeing right now in these recent weeks is what should have been happening the entire season. And that's the question of, well, wait a minute, should this be unanimous? Is this a little bit closer than we think? Because LeBron all year long has also had a pretty historic season as well. he might not have the highest box plus minus or the P.E.R.

like Yannis has, but he's only the third guy to have an average over 25 points and 10 assists per game. If you want to look at the numbers. It's very rare in NBA history that a player has put up numbers this high with assist totals and scored as much as he does. LeBron James is doing something special this season as well. I think LeBron James is unbelievable. And I, of the two people on this show, I'm the one that doesn't take. taken for granted. But I'm sure you will remind me.

But that's only because you've reminded me to not take him for granted. He is having an amazing season, Kevin. There's no way around it. He is, what he is doing at this age is absolutely incredible. It is only that Janus plays in Milwaukee that his, if it weren't for me telling everybody that he has the greatest PER season in the history of basketball,

I'm the only person you've heard that. With all due respect to John Hollinger, nobody really uses P.E.R. anymore. That's not true. I mean, it sort of is. But, you know, to your point, though, it's like we talked about last week. It's still a rough guideline of who the best guys are. But I wouldn't use that personally in a MVP debate or anything like that. I'm sure you have your new, newfangled numbers.

Well, box plus minus the new up. dated version on on basketball reference is very good. Who's number one in that? The highest one all time or this season? Who's the highest one all time? All time is LeBron's 2008-2009 season. Then Michael Jordan 87-88, Michael Jordan 9091, Steph Curry, 15, 16, Jordan 88, 89. And then you get down to number nine on the list.

It's this year for Janus. Which again, again. Where's this year's LeBron? 75th. Oh, interesting. Sorry, 74th. Okay. All right.

So you know what? That's fine. We can throw out P.E.R. We'll use your number. I mean, I wouldn't use that either, personally. Oh, okay. All right. I just, I just wouldn't.

I never have in any of my votes. I'm not a big fan of single number statistics because of how difficult it is to really just quantify the load of player carries their importance to an offense. It's difficult to use that. to quantify defense and with Janus, it's very possible his numbers would be better if it could, if he had better quantified defense with the impact he makes on that end of the floor.

You know what I mean? I prefer just looking at the offensive side for that. But even then, I mean, I, with MVP, it's always been more, been more than just the numbers. If you look at the way votes have happened, the way there's no doubt about that.

With Steve Nash, Derek Rose, guys, there's, that aspect too, with expectations. versus what happens, surrounding roster, there's things that the single member can be used for as part of an argument,

but it's not the entirety of your argument. No, and what I would say is there's a lot of times where that narrative ends up creating a mistake. That's what I'd say. You know, I just listened to Bill talk about this and, you know, the egregious Carl Malone over Michael Jordan, you know, Jackie McMullen, who was one of the greatest ever, and she, I don't think she was intending to do this,

but she wrote a cover story about, you know, the mailman's playing at an MVP level, not that anyone noticed. And it got the wheel rolling and people started talking about how great he's been for so long. And next thing you know, Carmelons got the MVP over Michael Jordan. It's like, what the hell happened here? And there are other times it has happened in history where once the narrative gets going, it can change people's minds. And then we look back and we say, I'm not sure that, I'm not sure that guy should have won it.

And so that's where you've got to be a little bit. careful. Not that the numbers mean everything, but the narrative can sometimes lead us astray. Let me ask you about being in that locker room the other day because I read where they're saying that the locker rooms are going to be closed very soon. The NBA is meeting with its teams on Wednesday about what to do about this coronavirus scare. I'll tell you this. I saw your picture from the locker room on Sunday. You were at no risk of getting the coronavirus from LeBron James or anywhere else. Or giving it to him because it looked like you were 100 yards away. So I didn't know if they had implemented the coronavirus rules onto you already.

Or is that just you got into the locker room a little bit late? I've never seen anything like that. You were so far away. I mean, I would say to anybody listening, just imagine, you know, you're at a concert or some type of events. and you're like six people, seven people, eight people back. And you're close. But the problem is that the person you're trying to look at isn't on a stage. So LeBron James was blocked by a bunch of cameras and humans and phones and everything.

It was a lot of people surrounding LeBron in a tiny space in a locker room. And to the NBA's point, this is why, you know, across the world, we're seeing countries use social distancing to protect and to detainting. the spread of coronavirus and that's why the NBA is right to take media members out of the locker room because man that you know the players are the reason why you know we're doing what we're doing Chris it's the reason why any media member is doing what we're doing it's the reason why we have jobs it's a reason why fans care to watch and so it the NBA is right to protect the players from getting sick because once one does boy could that spread pretty quickly with

the way players sweat touch the ball dab up hands I mean like it could get bad quickly. And so the NBA is right to take those precautions. I'd imagine, I'd imagine what they'll probably do is, you know, just like we do when it gets to the playoffs. They'll do the podium thing, right?

Well, I don't have a problem with that anyway. I saw, I saw a couple of media members take photos today of their, you know, shoot around or pregame, you know, set up and it will be podium style where teams are going to take a player out

or multiple players out. And, you know, we'll see how this works. I don't really care to get into the media aspect of it, you know, with regards to access. But for fans, we're still going to get plenty of clips from players.

It's just a matter of how many actually get brought out onto the podium before each game and after each game. The NBA is supposed to, or rather the team PR, is supposed to, you know, grant those requests from media members. So we'll see how it's done over the next couple weeks. Yeah, and I'll be

very fascinated to see how it all plays out too because we haven't, I guess, I'll see tonight. Maybe I'm going to Grizzlies Magic. Magic who have been hot, by the way. Where'd this come from? They just pounded the rockets and they've won like seven of their last 10. One second though with like coronavirus though.

Do you think it's going to get to the point that we're playing games in empty arenas? Do you think we get there? Does that happen in the NBA? Not widespread. I think it would depend on the market. I think there would have to be a tremendous outbreak in a particular market. rather than do it with all the teams. As I've told you about when people talk about canceling games,

like you remember when the Colby stuff happened that came up, right? And I remember saying, like, I understand the emotion of it right now, but you've got to think about how many things and how many businesses and how many people that affects. And, you know, that, like, I'm talking about people that, like, that's their jobs is going and working at the arena. or the parking lots or the, you know, the ushers or, and that's beyond all of the players and all the staff and all the media members and everything. I mean, it affects a tremendous amount of things to cancel a game.

It's not just, yeah, I'm not just talking about the money and the NBA wants their money and everybody loves to just, you know, scream about greed. Like, think about all those people that have jobs connected to a game. The confession workers. security guards. Yeah, I mean, that's their, that's their livelihood is what they are doing. Not to mention all of the people that work for a team and all of the people that work at the businesses in conjunction with the team and the security service that gets hired. I mean, there's just, there is just so much that goes into staging one night. The NBA is so good and athletics in general so good at making it all feel easy.

But when you're talking about ticket takers and the box office all the way down to the parking garage attendants, and I mean, there are literally thousands of people working. Well, that's why when people, you know, bring up the stock market plummeting, it's not just about like Warren Buffett or, you know, or any of these billionaires losing their money. It's the stock market plummeting is a reflection of the amount of money people are spending, which hurts small businesses, restaurants. Sure. And if people aren't going out and doing those things, people might be losing.

jobs. Like there's there's ripple effects of what can happen here from a social standpoint, whether it's a game or an arena or whether it's, you know, someone going to their local restaurant that they always go to. This can hurt a lot of people even if they don't get sick. It's very complex. I don't think you'd ever cancel a game, but in terms of not having fans at the games, I think there would have to be a very severe outbreak where the risk would be tremendous because there is just, you don't. don't want to have to do that. My whole life, I have never really been someone who, you know, is

overreacting or or getting scared about stuff like this. Usually I'm the person who's like, it's really not as big of a deal as we seem to think it is in the moment. But with this, this is a little different though. Like with this, this is really the first time in my life. I've really thought to myself, well, maybe it is the best thing to self-quarantine, you know, to stay home, except for in need of going out, like going, picking something up quickly from the grocery store or something like that. But with the way this has spread in other countries in China, South Korea, Italy, and many others, the fact that it's really doubled with its cases each week. This is something that I hope here in the United States that we are proactive and, you know,

in some ways we have been, in some ways we haven't been in using social distancing to prevent the spread of the, or deter the spread of this virus. Because this is serious and how quickly it and has spread across the world. And, you know, there was a great study yesterday, forgive me for getting the name of it, that showed that I think 50% of cases in which this did spread was from somebody who the virus is still in its incubation period. It wasn't showing symptoms.

And that's the complicated thing about this because you feel like you're okay. You know, you still go out to eat with your family or your friends. You know, you might be sharing plates. You're shaking hands with coworkers or whatever. but you could have it. And you might be in a stage where you're not showing symptoms, but you can spread it.

And that's what makes this so complicated and why we're seeing the NBA, take media members out in the locker room. It's why we're seeing certain colleges across the country shut down and not and only have online classes. It's going to happen more and more. I've wondered about this too because this upcoming weekend, you know, all these conference tournaments are going on. And up the road in Nashville last year,

I went to the SEC tournament. so that I could see, you know, Grant Williams and Admiral Schofield and that Tennessee team and the Kentucky team that had PJ Washington and Tyler Harrow. And I mean, there was a bunch of good players. LSU had some drafted kids. It was a good talent year in the SEC. And so I went to the SEC tournament last year. And of course, it's in Nashville again. And I have wondered what that's going to be like. Is it going to be? Because you're seeing all of these things being canceled. And yet we are going to have, I mean, look, I was there last year, Kev. It was slammed to the gills because it's, you know, it's close enough.

Nashville is close enough to Kentucky. Kentucky fans just take over everything. The Ivy League just canceled their tournament. Oh, they did? Yeah, just now. Just broke. The Ivy League. All right, has canceled their tournament.

I mean, I do wonder on these conference tournaments because I will tell you, as someone who was there last year, it was at Bridgestone Arena in Nashville. The place is slammed. So, I mean, if we're talking about our amount of. of people being in a, you know, tight quarters, like, that's it. You know, you're standing in line amongst thousands of people trying to get in that arena. And then when you're in the arena, there's not a seat empty. And you've got fans from all of these different schools.

You know, right? That's the other thing. You got people traveling from all kinds of different states to go to something like these conference tournaments and the NCAA tournament, which is, you know, we're only a week away from that. I don't know what's going to happen when you're seeing all these musical festivals and whatnot being canceled. We just saw South by Southwest

get canceled. And there was a story yesterday that South by Southwest had a layoff 50 employees because of the decision to cancel the festival. We might see Coachella get canceled next, which has two weekends in California. It's very possible like this is going to happen next.

Whether it's events getting canceled entirely or, I mean, I'm a little bit surprised with the Ivy League. They just didn't play the games in an empty arena that they just straight up canceled. Maybe there's other reason for that. They also, they,

right, I don't know. They, they all, look, the Ivy League is much more like old school college basketball than anything else, right?

You get academic scholarships. They don't even have like basketball scholarships at, at these schools, right? Like you go for the academia of it and sports is secondary. So their deal is a little bit different. We know how much. money hungry the NCAA and these conferences are.

It's going to take 50 people dying for them to cancel anything. I say that in jest, but it's scary. They are so money hungry that you would have to have for college for college athletics to do anything that would cost them money. Lord knows, they're willing to fight to the Supreme Court to keep, you know, athletes from making 20 bucks. they're willing to suspend somebody for, you know, something that they did 10 years ago.

It's crazy. Everything we're talking about, I read on the ringer.com a piece by Brian Phillips last line. It's one of my favorite things that I've read about this coronavirus, COVID-19 thing happening across the world right now. And Phillips wrote about, I'll just read the top part, you know, quote,

major sporting events provide essential communal and human experiences. Some of these events, like the Olympics are where complex global systems intersect. How then should we proceed with them during a public health crisis such as the coronavirus? And basically, it's just about the importance of sport, how sometimes it can seem like the most meaningless thing, but it can simultaneously feel like the most important thing. And I think we're entering a stage collectively as a society across the world in which that is going to feel like that to the extreme, where this is one of the few things where if a lot of people

are isolated like they are in Italy. People are, they are not having weddings, funerals, bingo games, anything in Italy right now. People are just quarantined at home. And maybe that happens here. Maybe it doesn't. Who knows? But the fact is that still sports is one of

the connecting things in our world. And if that gets canceled, won't have that. I hope, I hope like that no player gets affected by this. That's probably a, a fantasy. The odds are that somebody will. But I really do hope that we're able to still have

sports to just keep us together, you know. Well, I was reading earlier that Charles Barkley, who we all go to for wisdom and opinions on everything, says, we already have enough stadiums in the United States. So they shouldn't cancel the Olympics. They should move them here. And it wouldn't be fair to the people who've been trying to make it for basically four years. years. They should move them to the United States. How about that? So he said he had the Olympic opinion. Oh, it would be the worst. I mean, think about that. Your whole life, you've trained for the 2020 Olympics, right? In Tokyo. God forbid they, God forbid they have to cancel that. That would be just horrendous. Horrendous. Hopefully they're able to pull it off some way somehow.

One other thing that we do need to get to today, Kevin, before we get out of here, is we have not spoken to each other since the news came down about Kenny Atkinson. Now, according to many in the media, this is something that has kind of been, like, that there have been murmurs about this, and then it finally just came to a head and they just decided to part ways, but that things were not all great there in Brooklyn. and I was reading this article by Sharm Sharania and Alex Schiffer talking about this. Have you heard about this or read about this, this players meeting that they had with Kenny Atkinson? Fill us in.

Fill the listeners in, Chris. Okay, it says, The Net held a spirited team meeting, according to sources, starting with several veterans expressing that they wanted to see Spencer Dinwiddie play like the player they know. and later with people in the room calling out Dinwiddie and DeAndre Jordan. Then perhaps the most critical thing of all happened. Sources say Durant chimed in, pointing out that the Nets have to improve their habits and that they are not building the proper culture traits necessary for a title contender. Durant's comments weren't the final nail in the coffin for Atkinson,

but given his star status, Durant's opinions carry a lot of weight within the organization. and they say that Kenny Ackinson, instead of coming back, fired up and saying, here's what we need to do, here's what we need to do, just got dejected about the whole thing. Like, I mean, obviously, you're having this meeting, and Kevin Durant stands up and is questioning the way the entire, you know, the culture and the way the team is running. And look, I told you, I think Kenny Ackinson is a very good coach. That was one of the most fun teams in the league last year. You saw how much they liked each other and the team.

chemistry they had. And then now we fast forward a year. And the thing, I mean, that joy is gone. And now you have Kenny Atkinson, who I'd imagine we'll have a job in two seconds. They should put him on TV for the rest of the year, by the way, because his press conferences are great. He'd be great on TV until he gets a job for next year. Kenny Atkinson's great. And he's a really good coach. And the one, by one takeaway from that article, level two. First of all, Kenny Atkinson is a good coach, but it doesn't mean. he was the right coach for the Nets because of these problems. These problems are real.

They're problems that Katie, Kyrie, DeAndre Jordan, other unnamed veterans had. And, you know, Jock Vaughn, the first change he made is putting DeAndre Jordan in the starting lineup instead of Jared Allen. So some of the complaints about, you know, roles being defined by Atkinson seemed to be, from my impression, more of a disagreement with those defined roles. the players, Kyrie and Kevin Durant, wanting their friend DeAndre Jordan

to get that opportunity and role in the starting lineup, even though, you know, Jared Allen may be a better performing player. Secondly, it seems like all of the complaints in this reported piece,

which is fantastic by Shams and Alex Schiffer at the Athletic. It's fantastic, the information packed in here. It seems to me that still Katie and Kyrie were at the core of this. And again,

That's okay. Like, they just didn't think Kenny Atkinson was the right coach, and it is what it is. But it is fast, going to be fascinating to see how much control and power they wield when it comes to the next decision of who is actually hired. All of it. Yep. All of it. All of it. All of it.

All of it. Yep. All of it. Yep. I mean. And, and my point here is that I hope, I hope for that organization. and the other players in that team and for fans of the Nets,

I hope they make the right choice. I hope they do, because there's a lot of talent on that roster that when Kady returns, and if he's anything close to what he was prior to his unfortunate injury, if Kyrie is finally able to stay healthy, if this team and their two stars

are able to stay healthy, they have a lot of talent on that roster, a lot of talent, and I hope they get a coach that can get it right. Kenny Ackinson could have been that guy, but he wasn't for the player. players. So I hope for them they do find that great coach. Yeah. And they brought in,

they brought in veterans that were not a part of what they had built last year, right? Like all those guys are gone. Like the, Damare Carroll and Jared Dudley and Ed Davis and like all the, all those guys that were like on the bench and they were all rooting on, you know, DeAngelo Russell and Joe Harris and Karris Lavert and on and on. I mean, that team was fun. The team was fun. And it was like moving, it felt like it was moving towards stuff. They sold out.

out to get the two superstars. I mean, every team would want two superstars if you can get them, but there was a cost to doing that. And the cost was they did have a culture. They did, you know, that had built up. And these are not guys that were, the truth is, you can like that culture from the outside, but that culture was going to be whatever Kevin Durant, the Kyrie Irving and DeAndre Jordan decided it's going to be.

Sure. You know? And sure. I tweeted this on Saturday, and I believe this whole whole whole whole thing. So I have seen, I believe I've seen, I may be like two or three short of seeing every team in the league in person this year. And their one team that popped out to me as soon as Atkinson got fired was the Bulls. They are the team that I have seen where I have thought they should not,

they should be better than they are, but it just feels like a totally joyless operation. Right. And so when I think back to the type of team they had, because they got some cool vets on the team, too. Satteransky's a good guy and Thaddeus Young's a good guy. And they've got a bunch of young players who are, you know, frustrated from Kobe White to Lori Markinen to Wendell Carter who had the injury plague season. And you could tell they're not all on board with the coach and what's going on there. I just feel like Atkinson would be absolutely perfect for that. particular situation. They are the team that I've watched that I thought, golly, there's like no chemistry on this team, and it just feels joyless.

And they got players. Like, you look at the Bulls, like they've got talent on that team. And they just suck. And I'll say this. This could be a summer. Could be. Not will be.

Could be a summer in which we see a lot of coaching changes. I mean, look around the league right now and think about teams that could change their coach. It could be Portland with Terry Stott's, Philadelphia, with Brett Brown. It could be Washington with Scott Brooks. Oh, it's going to be, I think it's going to be a Tony. Atlanta with Lloyd Pierce. Orlando with Steve Clifford.

It could be Jim Boylan with Chicago. Could see Ryan Saunders with Minnesota. And of course, Brooklyn and Cleveland, who have already changed their coach midseason. There's a lot of the Knicks as well. that's a lot of coaches, potential coaching vacancies. So guys like Kenny Atkinson are top assistants across the league, you know, could get opportunities this summer if some of these teams decide to make a change. That's for sure. Like, look, we haven't had a lot of coaching changes in recent years, but this could be a summer in which there's like five to ten changes.

And maybe, maybe we might see the man, Mark Jackson get back in the league. we sure as hell know that considering Rich Clyman, Katie's agent, was really pushing for the Knicks to hire him. You damn well know he's going to do the same with the Nets. It doesn't mean that the Nets will hire Mark Jackson, but Climman and possibly Kevin Durant, his only client, will be pushing for that.

And that's just something to keep in mind heading into the offseason when that coaching change has happened. And by the way, I saw Mark Jackson at Staple Center on Sunday and he gave me an elbow greeting, like the new coronavirus elbow greeting. the Bash Brothers McGuire Kinseko style was pretty good

my first time meeting Mark Jackson You know I'm You know This gives me a good opportunity to say this So I met him

About two or three years ago At Summer League Right And you know I did obviously I just I just know him from television That's it And his time

You know As the coach of the Warriors But I do I have no personal relationship Whatsoever But anyways I came across when we both happen to be in the same area, whatever, and we start talking, I found him to be

intensely likable. He is such a nice guy. He really is. He was the nicest guy. And I was thinking like, you know, brash, New York guy, you know, I hear him on the broadcast where him and Van Gundy can be bitching about, you know, this and that. He was the nicest guy. There were actually two that summer that I came across where I was like, oh, man, I get it.

Like the power of persuasion that these guys can have and why. you know, and that people would want to hire them and that they would make for good coaches possibly too, was, have you ever been around the elder Isaiah Thomas? I have not. Oh, my gosh. You want to talk about charming. This guy. I mean, there's two guys that were like that where I came across them and met them,

both Mark Jackson and Isaiah Thomas. And I walked away and I'm like, oh, I get it. I get why people, you know, why he, you know, why they when. James Dolan, like then they say, oh, may bring back Isaiah Thomas, right? Like that's his guy or whatever. Like, or there's so many people that, you know, been around Isaiah Thomas or swear by him. He is, he's always smiling. He's legitimately, and this is like not on a camera or anything.

He's just like a delight. He's a charming guy. Like almost like a, like a politician. It wouldn't surprise me if either him or Jeff Van Gundy get another opportunity. Oh, well, and then you've got all. these other guys that have won games that are on the side. Like, you know, Dave Yeager doesn't have a job. Tom Tibido doesn't have a job.

Brett Brown would get another job. Kenny Atkinson will get another job. And then you've got, you know, Darvin Ham, who's the lead assistant for Boudnohzer. He's like the only one that's still around. That's one of the guys that I would hire. Just after seeing what Taylor Jenkins has done and what Atkinson did in Brooklyn, obviously what Boodnhulzer did, that staff that Boodenholzer had in Atlanta, it was, it was, it It was Kenny Atkinson, Quinn Snyder, Taylor Jenkins, and Darwin Ham.

And Darwin's still with him as his associate head coach or whatever. Darwin Ham will get a job too. So, yeah, I think you're right. I think there's going to be double-digit changeover. It could be a lot of change. You know, because I mentioned somebody like Terry Stott's. And look, this is not sourced at all. But I'm just saying, theoretically, Portland misses the playoffs.

they want to undergo change. Something like that could happen. I wouldn't, no, I would be shocked. He's got a long tenure there. Yeah, I know. That's what I mean. Like, he's been there a long time. That a team like that can say, you know what?

We're just going to make a change here. That could happen. Yeah, but they've been disappointing this year because of injury, not because of Terry Stott's. That's what I think. They're about to get Collins and Nurchach back this week, I think. Or very soon.

It's probably, it's probably too far gone though now. You got, you get all these teams in the heels of your grizzlies, New Orleans California You know Antonio

Hey Well you know All the New Orleans has been In all of like the projections Still to this day

If you Anybody gets a chance You can go Look at their schedule After they They have like a three Gamer this week They end with the Clippers

On Sunday They have a three gamer this week Like at Utah At the Clippers I mean And it's rough Once they get to Sunday I think

I think they play two teams over 500 the rest of the season. Yep. They got some big ones though. They still have three games left against San Antonio. Two games left against Memphis. That's right.

Two games including this week against Sacramento. So they're facing other teams that are in the hunt. And if they take those games, they're going to jump up the standings pretty quickly. And other than that, like you said, they don't, they have a very weak schedule. They should have. should have caught them. They should have caught

them this last three weeks, Kev, because Jaron Jackson Jr. and Justice Winslow coming back in the lineup. The Grizzlies went, the Grizzlies without those two and Brandon Clark went four and three, which is good enough to hold on to the lead, you know?

Yeah, I don't know. It's, look, it's going to be tight. It's going to be tight. But, but, New Orleans, probably, despite the fact they're four games back, that schedule's really weak. it's weak.

It's going to be within a game or two, whereas Memphis, they got some really tough games coming up. Well, and that's two, two, three weeks or so. And it could very well end up tied. And both the Pelicans, well, we'll see what happens in the last two games, but the Pelicans have killed the Grizzlies both times there and in Memphis. And then Sacramento's beating them too. So they don't have the tiebreaker against either of those teams as of now. A battle, a battle of teams to get the opportunity to face the Lakers.

in the first round. Yeah, right. But you know what, though? Like, that's a good, valuable experience for a young team to get to game plan and get that experience going against LeBron and the Lakers. So, like, whatever team slides into that eight team. Yeah, you just, you hope it's one of the young teams that gets to catch some battle scars. Yeah.

Like, what value, yeah, what value is it to Portland? Come on. They were just playing the Western Conference finals last year. Just to get spanked. You know. Kevin is always a pleasure. I will talk to you on Friday. Looking forward to it, Chris.

Have a good day, everybody. Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a reading interview on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. Also, we are very close to 100,000 followers on the Ringer NBA Twitter feed. So go follow that, if you will. And we will talk to you on Friday.

Thanks to Bobby Wagner for another episode of producing. Talk to you on Friday. Thank you.