The Ringer NBA Show - Is New York Really the Best Destination for Kevin Durant? | The Mismatch

Episode Date: June 25, 2019

The results from the NBA awards were largely unsurprising (0:50), but free agency may have some surprises in store (27:48). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. It's Liz Kelly, the co-host of Tea Time. Your favorite celebrity and pop culture podcasts have moved out of Channel 33 and into their very own feed called Ringer Dish. On Ringer Dish, you can still listen to Jam Session on Wednesdays and Tea Time on Fridays, and we'll be launching a brand new show that will publish every Monday. Episodes so far have included a heated debate on which celebrity Chris reigns supreme and a social media deep dive on the Big Little Lies cast. So to hear more about the royal family and our current celebrity episode, sessions, subscribe to Ring Your Dish on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon.

And joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Conflict, aka Kevin O'Champer, aka Kevin O'Connor A.k.A. Kevin O'C.O. Kahntyland. Kevin O'Brien. Verno, what's going on this morning? How you doing, man? Well, we actually, though we have been bereft of basketball, after the draft, here we come with the NBA awards that took place last night. Did you watch? I did watch this. Cool.

You did not. I watched the speeches on YouTube this morning. That's what I did. I did not watch live. I watched The Bachelorette last night. I actually wish I would have watched The Bachelorette. It was really tremendous. And I've never watched an episode of my life.

But considering I did watch this NBA awards, I feel like that might have been a better option. You know, Adam Silver is a guy that is constantly thinking about how they can do things better, how they can improve things. He is an extremely good forward thinker with the NBA, and he is certainly not stuck in his ways because of traditions or other things. he is constantly thinking how they can improve. With that being said, he needs to think a lot about how they can improve this whole thing because this is for a league that is known as cool, for a league that gets so much traffic in terms of people cracking jokes or celebrating plays or whatever it may be throughout the year.

Number one, the timing of when they give out their awards and the show itself, which last night was hosted by a shack instead of a real comedian. I don't know if the jokes are just bad or if they throw out all the ones that would be good. But there's a million jokes cracked on Twitter literally every night about the NBA and everything that goes on with the NBA. This should be a powerhouse show if they're going to do it like this. It should be hysterical. It should have all kinds of moments in it. And instead, you know, Janus and honestly, the other really heartfelt one that stood out to me was Robin Roberts, who was given the Craig Sager Award. And she had a quote that I honestly will never forget. I believe she was quoting her mother when she said,

make your mess, your message. And it just stood out to me. And she was great. And that whole deal with Robin Roberts was great. And then obviously, Janus at the very end. But I liked when they used to do this in the middle of the playoffs. I liked when it was all still fresh. and for them to wait this long, and then the show is just not good. It's just not. But anyway, let's get to the awards,

because you didn't watch it anyway. One thing on the show itself, I like Darrell Mori's recommendation. He said, I support the 2020 NBA desktop takeover of the NBA Awards. I agree with him. It's an idea. It's an idea.

I mean, even if it's not NBA desktop or even if, like, NBA desktop is a portion of it and, like, you work with other internet creators

to sort of spice up the show, then maybe that would work. However, I can also see the NBA not wanting to take a risk in doing that, but it's like any other award show, any type of host might have a joke they want to say it and they say no. It's like if Jason Concepcion

wants to say something wild, they can tell him no. All right. Then he has a 500 record last night, Darryl Morey, because that is a great recommendation. On the other hand, I would imagine that everybody okayed this hater-ass tweet

that's a rocket sent out. what kind of BS is this? As soon as Janice wins the MVP gives this incredibly heartfelt speech, they drop a tweet, basically, here's the real MVP. You know, no disrespect, blah, blah, blah.

And then puts out, here's the real MVP type of stuff. And all these stats about James Hardin. And I'm like, does anybody how does nobody there say this is a bad idea? Like, number one, this is one of the most beloved characters in the entire NBA. Number two,

all anybody is talking about is how amazing this speech and this moment is and how good everybody feels for the guy how does nobody ever in a Houston organization say abort abort you know what I mean like yeah okay there's going to be some psychos in our fan base that this plays well too but everybody else is going to hate us for this and nobody I guess stood up and said hey maybe we shouldn't put out this hater tweet, but they did. So congrats to the Houston Rockets for everybody hating you after Janus' amazing moment. You know, they easily could have, if they just worded it differently, I think it would have been okay. But the fact that they said, congrats to the new MVP, but we respectfully disagree, I think that changed everything. It's like, congrats to the new MVP.

Yannis Anta Koumo had an incredible year. We're proud of what James Harden accomplished. Here's a look at at his highlights of the season. Nobody would care. Nobody would care if they said it that way, right? I don't think you would care, would you? We wouldn't be talking about it. No, no, you do the fan-based thing and you say, you're still our MVP.

Yeah, it's like simple as that. Yeah, you're still our MVP, James, you know? And then everybody can look at the stats and the highlights. It'd be like, damn, man, he had an amazing season. This touches on, like, something on the editorial side. It's like, this is the importance of having editors, of having a copy desk, having fact checkers and the whole process that is required on many editorial staffs,

including here at the ringer, it's like there's certain tweets that I write. And I'm like, yeah, I frame that a little bit differently than I wanted to and I'll delete it. And it's like, I wish I had an editor to work with before I tweeted. And in the case of the Rockets here, it's like, yeah, it's too bad that there wasn't an editor to say, hey, maybe we should say this a little bit differently because it's going to come off in this particular way. Because you know what, man, like, it's too bad that that was sent out because, like, James Hardin did have an unbelievable season. And, like, it was a joy to watch for some people and a pain to watch for others, but there's no denying that it was a tremendous performance by him.

But what Yana San Antonio did throughout the season and with his speech last night was beautiful and should be celebrated. Well, and there is, I work hand in hand with social media people all the time. It's not an easy job. Not at all. It's tough. One of the things that is difficult is you do find yourself in this. bubble where it can become, especially if you're a team account, it becomes an echo chamber, right, where you are going to have, of course, the people that are always cracking jokes or, you know, saying bad things to you, but you kind of zone them out. And you generally are

playing to your fan base, right? Sometimes you don't grasp how this looks to literally everybody else. You know what I mean? You don't get to just send it out to your fan base. You send that out to the world. And then everybody reacts to that. And generally, I would imagine the majority of their feedback is positive. And I'm sure that their feedback from their fans was positive. But everybody else thinks it's a terrible idea. You know what? You know what?

Who cares? I do. I mean, who cares? Let's talk about Yannis. No, I do. I care about that. The speech last night was unbelievable. I love the quote that he had.

Then you mentioned Robin Roberts' quote. I liked when Yannis talking about his family and the journey he came from. at the end, quoted his dad who said, always want more, but never be greedy. And with Yannis, that's always what it's been throughout his whole life. When he was hustling, selling sunglasses on the streets as a young kid in Greece, getting drafted by the Bucks and transforming his body and his game, becoming a most improved player of the year now in MVP.

And the whole NBA awards this year had an international feel to it with Yannis winning MVP, Luca winning rookie of the year, Rudy O'Bare winning defensive player of the year. than Siakam winning most improved player. And with Yannis, it's like he's the perfect role model for young kids watching basketball from around the world. One of the things from last night, too, and we have talked about this before, we talk about with anybody that is great,

typically there's going to be a load of people that really cannot stand them, and then people that love them. And then there's the fights, and then there is the arguments, and then whatever. I think that it is so many, I have never met anybody that doesn't like Janice, ever.

And I'm not talking just like know him personally. I'm talking about fans, NBA fans. Like, who doesn't like him? And somebody sent to me last night, I dread the day when people turn on him. Like they always turn on everybody. And, you know, some guys never really get turned on. Like, Dirk. Dirk, one guy.

And there are people, when we talked about this before, people were like, oh, well, you weren't in Dallas when people were saying that he couldn't be the best player on a team or they didn't love him or whatever. And I'm like generally people always had good feelings about D. I actually kind of felt that like about Wade. Honestly, I don't think D. Wade caught the shrapnel from the LeBron stuff nearly like you would think he would have. You know, it was really LeBron that everybody found the vitriol for. But I think Wade generally has a very high score amongst like, you know, if you just asked fans of every team, do you like this guy? I think that Wade was always up there.

People didn't really hate Dwayne Wade. You know, and I'm talking about somebody that has to be so good that he would elicit in emotion one way or the other, not like some level of indifference, right? Like, because you could ask people, do you like Campbell Walker? And everybody's like, yeah, I like Campbell Walker. Like, who doesn't like Campbell Walker? Like, what is it? There's nobody out there sitting around like, I hate Campbell Walker.

for what? You know what I mean? Like there's no reason to say Kimball Walker. But yeah, I think he's very, very high on that list. I'll tell you this.

And some of it has to do with the small market thing, right? Because people always have a soft spot for guys that achieve a lot from small markets. Janice was like that. Durant was like that

in Oklahoma City. Prior to him leaving for Golden State, he was virtually universally beloved. I think Anthony Davis until this last year almost everybody liked him yep you don't I mean there's no reason to dislike anthony davis right now it's kind of yokech you know yokech kind of vaulted into there

where he's a guy that you know Lillard Lillard that that's exactly he just came to mind yep yes very very high on that list I mean you even saw it last week when the Conley trade went down and obviously I've known Mike since he was 19 years old but I mean people love Mike Conley What's the reason to not like Mike Conley? Like if you don't like Mike Conley, you're just a dick because he's like the greatest guy in the world. Like seriously, this is more about you than it does about him if you don't like him.

Well, he won the teammate of the year and sportsmanship awards last site. Mike Conley did. Yes. I was glad he got some recognition. He just had to get traded before he got any recognition. The guy finally gets some recognition. It's right after he got traded.

Unbelievable. Speaking of, it's like Kemba Walker came in second in the Sportsmanship Award for guys who are loved across the league by players, by fans, and everybody else. Yeah. Well, and I actually, I showed my son the Yonest speech this morning. He loves Yonis, like every little kid loves Yonis. And I just find him to be an unbelievable representative of the NBA. I love that he won the MVP. I love that he was out front and center, and the speech was great.

Coach of the year. One other thing on Yonis, though. Yeah. I would say, like, he's a. strong representation of mankind. I think that's fair. And I mean that in the sense that it's like the vulnerability that he showed on stage last night, the love for his family, for his mom, for his brothers,

and his father who passed a couple years ago. It was just really beautiful to see that. And Janus, I think the reason why he is loved by so many fans is because he's been like this as soon as he was drafted. As soon as he was drafted, he was like this. It was just kind of, you know, starry eyes of America. tweeting about the first time, what was he, he had a slurpy, right? The first time

he had a slurpy. A smoothie. Yeah, the smoothie. Yeah. Smoothie. That's right. He said, I just taste for the first time a smoothie. God bless America. Like, that was back in 2013-14 during his rookie season. And it's stuff like that that added up over time that you know, like,

this guy is a genuine dude. And then you see how much he improves on the court. It's like impossible not to love him as a player. And it was so, so great to see him rewarded last night for his family. to be there to share it with him. Yeah. Coach of the year,

Boot and Holzer, they won 60 games. I mean, it's hard to disagree. The guy obviously did a great job. He got my vote, yeah. Rookie of the year,

Luca, almost unanimous. I thought Trey would get some more votes. I mean, I voted Luca, and like, it was an easy choice for me, but I expected Trey

to get more votes than two for first place. He did not. Lou Williams, he's got that six men of the year on lock. Yeah, that was not.

even close. Yeah. But the cool part, though, is like how Montres Harrell still finished in the top three. Those guys were such a dynamic duo with the pick and roll this year for the clippers. And depending on other changes that they can make, that should still be a stable

force for them off the bench this coming season. There was some thought that maybe Yonis could take home the MVP and defensive player of the year, but the defensive player of the year went to Rudy Gobert. That's another thought. I thought Yonis, he got 26 first place votes. I thought he would get even more. I thought that would be like closer to

50-50, but it wasn't. Yeah. And then my best friend, John Horst, great job by him. The executive of the year in Milwaukee, have not talked to him in a long time, but it's always great to see your friends do so well. And so congratulations to my best friend John Horst on winning the executive of the year. It's interesting to see the voter breakdown for that. Vladi D. Bach. Do a lot of great jobs. Vladi got one vote for the Sacramento Kings. Mori got one vote for the Rocket. Elton Brand got two for the Sixers. Interesting to see a couple of the votes lower on the totem pole. To me, it's either Horst or the guy in Denver.

Tim Conley. And that was a tight vote. John Horace had 72 total points and Tim Conley had 69. And I'll tell you the one that, you know, if this is done right now, if you do this vote right now, it's Maasai. If you do the vote right now, it's Maasai. End of story. Because of the Kauai trade and the Gasol trade. Yes, if this is a full season award, you know what I mean?

And we include the playoffs. It's Maasai. It's not even close. Yeah. In some ways, it is kind of silly that executive the year is only a regular season award. When teams are building for the postseason, like, that's what they're building for. Well, I mean, it's the same way you do with coach of the year, right? Dwayne Casey doesn't win coach of the year last year unless it's a regular season award, right?

Which it is. I know, I know. just, you know, both good and bad. I wouldn't be cool if there were, like, the regular season awards that they gave out during the postseason, you know, so we got all the speeches. That's what they always did. Yeah, that would be great. Like, that's when you get

the KD moment, you know, you're the real MVP, you get Alan Iverson holding the MVP trophy in front of all the crazy Philadelphia fans. It was so much better like this. Yes, you do it in front of your home fan base. I've been in the arena, Hubey Brown won coach of the year during the playoffs one year. And it was one of the most memorable moments I've ever been in an arena.

You know, any of those awards that have been given out to players over the years. If you're in the arena for those and in front of your home fan base, it's just a different deal. The other thing is it adds a little intrigue when you get to the playoffs. So now it's like all of a sudden the MVP Janus versus the Raptors or, you know, versus whoever. And then you have last year you would have had the MVP James Hardin versus this all-time great team in the Golden State Warriors. And so, yes, if it is a regular season award, then they should give it out after the regular season. Because what happens is our minds get altered by what takes place in the playoffs. And so in retrospect, yes, John Horst should have won executive of the year for what the Bucks did during the regular season.

but when you take it in total, Masai Ujiri did the best job in retrospect, right? I would still argue it's John Horst, but that's sort of beside the point. They sort of overhauled the roster. I understand. Hiring Boone Holzer as well who overhauled the system. Their three best players are still carryovers.

Now, they had better seasons, but Brogden, Middleton, and Janus were all there. Sure, that's fair. I want to argue with that. Put it this way. Masai would have been higher than fourth place. I think that's fair to say. The hard part is getting the stars, not getting the role players, right?

And that's what Maasai did. He got the guy that won them the title, which is just, I mean, it's almost impossible to do. It's almost impossible to get a guy that's going to go win you a title. I don't know. I mean, it's semantics in some ways, but it still takes a lot of luck, too. It's like it takes a San Antonio team that is willing to take on a player who plays an archaic style and DeMardo Rosen. It takes skill in doing that, but it also takes skill. in finding appropriate role players to surround your star player with.

And that's what Maasai did with the Gasol move. Yep. That's what Horst did with the Brooke Lopez move and so on. So it's like both those guys had incredible seasons in many ways. Like they should be rewarded Maasai for the full duration of the season, Horse for what he did last summer. Because it's different. It's like team building so much to focus is on the summer what you do in free agency.

But the truth is is that team building does not end until you're unable to sign waived players for the postseason. So it ends around the trade deadline, but also into March when it comes to getting waived players to try to bolster your bench. So it's like team building never stops for these guys. And Maasai did more during the regular season.

Horace did more during the off season. We still have a little time before free agency is going to open. But we did have post-draft, a trade that went down yesterday. Also, Seacom. You forgot to mention Seaccom. Oh, I did.

Most improved. He certainly was very deserving. and who else, Dearen Fox was up for that? Fox and Russell. Yeah, Russell. All three improved a lot. My votes were identical. All the people that I voted for ended up winning.

I'm surprised there was not a single one that was different. I would say the only one that I think would be argued a lot. Well, no. I mean, Gobert and Janus, I guess, for defensive player of the year. That's the one I thought that would be way closer. And even most improved. Siakum got 86 first place votes. Russell got 12, Fox got one, Derek Rose's got one.

Seacom had that narrative starting in like December. He got the spicy P. Moniker and he was hitting game winners and it was like, once that narrative starts for you, then it's very hard for another guy to jump in because it just becomes the thing that Seacom's going to be most improved player. Seacom's going to be most improved player. And the more times people say it, then everybody becomes, and it's true. I don't want to say he's not, but you all become conditioned to just. Like, that's the answer.

You know? I mean, he was the most approved player there. Yeah, but I mean, nobody else is saying that, right? Like, if somebody put out a big article saying, hey, there's all this talk about Seacom, but Deerrin Fox is actually the most improved player. And then it would at least give people cause for pause and maybe to debate it a little. But it was never a debate throughout the year. It was just kind of a, okay, that guy's going to win that award.

So then when it comes time to vote for it, I don't know. I just think if somebody, if somebody would have taken the other side of that forcefully and made it a relevant topic and saying, hey, DeAngelo Russell actually deserves this or DeAnne Fox actually deserves this. And here's the reasons why. Then maybe it could have been different. But it just became a, I don't know, what we knew was going to take place. He was also the deserving winner.

So I agree. The trade. The Trailblazers traded Evan Turner to the Hawks for Ken Baysmore. Traynor Baysmore, the trade. The very rare player A for player B. This almost never happens in the NBA anymore where you

just get a one for one. No top 55, protected pigs, no. Yeah, right. None of that. The word out of Portland was that they think that this may be just a passing through for Baysmore. And I got some response from people saying like, why would that be?

Well, I mean, the reason is because you've got Damien Lillard, you've got C.J. McCallum, and, you know, if you're spending that kind of money, there's probably better use for the Blazers salary cap than spending another boatload of money on a guard who's probably not going to start for you, unless you think he can play small forward for you. You know, you don't pay third guards that kind of money.

And so I've got to believe that this is a passing through for Bazemore, right? Yeah, it's an interesting deal in the sense that I think you're getting Bayesmore because of the fact that he's a better spot-up shooter than Evan Turner. Baysmore over the last five or six years shoots in the mid-high 30 percentage on spot-up three-point shot. So that's why you're getting him over Evan Turner, who is a non-shooter, a guy that teams do not consider a threat. However, to your point, Chris, Baysmore is also smaller than Evan Turner. He is a solid defender, but Evan Turner has more size to defend those threes. So Baysmore, if he is playing the three next to McCollum and Lillard, you're a small team.

You can't do it. You're a small team. And if another team goes big against you and has a larger forward at that three spot, it's a disadvantage for Bazmore. So it's an interesting deal in that sense. And then for Atlanta, you're getting another secondary ball handler. I'm not sure how much Evan Turner will play, which could be unfortunate for him, because they have so many younger players that they need to develop the wing and forward

positions and obviously Trey Young at point guard. but maybe if Turner does play for them, he's a secondary guy who can handle a ball, and then you get to develop Trey Young off ball a bit. I think Turner could help there, whereas Baysmore is more of the shooter, Turner is more of the ball handler. So it seems like a mutually beneficial trade for both teams.

On the Bayesmore part, I mean, Portland, the best thing that Portland could do was find somebody with a trade exception, trade him to that team without taking it back. Therefore, you are able to clear up money on your cap that you can spend on things to better build around those two elite level guards, find some better use for that money. And there will be teams with exceptions out there that might be willing to take on Baysmore.

I know one, maybe, but I can't imagine that they will have him on their team this year at that number. That would just be crazy. I don't know, man. Even if a team can absorb him, it's extremely difficult for them to get cap space because of the other contracts they have on. their roster already. So even if you, even if Bayesmore's contract went from 18 to zero and you renounced all the rights to everything else, you still could create only about like 13 or 14 million dollars in cap space. So you would also need to move someone else like Harkless or Leonard in order to get up to like 20, 25 million dollars on cap. It's tough for them to create cap space.

I don't know. They might be better off paying like using the mid-level exception and the bi-annual exception in order to assign guys rather than creating space. It's unrealistic. I don't agree with that. It's unrealistic. It's unrealistic that you're going to find a suitor to take on Baysmore's salary without giving up another asset. I don't believe that to be so. Who's going to take him?

I told you I know of a team. Which team? That needs a two guard. Who? My team, dummy? Why do the Grizzlies want Baysmore? Why would you not with a team that's going to fly up and down the court and you need a shooting guard? Why not? What's the reason not to?

Because he makes $19 million. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. You've got a $25 million trade exception. Are you telling me you already to dump Avery Bradley? Avery Bradley's not under contract, Kevin. He's got the non-guarantee. Oh, you think somebody's picking him up for $10 million or whatever it is? 12 million bucks.

Come on, brother. But then you want to get Kitt baseball for 19? I mean, listen, it's expiring, right? Yeah, so is Bradley. Okay, well, everything expires. buyers at the end of the year. And so, yes, I mean, then having that money come off the books, it's not a bad idea. Put it this way. The odds are baseball is going to be an off ball player for the Portland Trailblaers. It's just not a guy running up the floor for the gruellies. Chances are

that's what it's going to be. Well, I think that if I'm Portland, I don't want to spend that money on Kent Basmore. That's what I'm telling you. That seems asinine to me. Speaking of it being asinine, that's exactly what I wrote about today on the ringer, Chris. where these are the artifacts from the great 2016 offseason where we saw so many overpays for guys like Kent Baysmore and Evan Turner and Chandler Parsons and Solomon Hill, so many guys across the league that just got these huge contracts because of the cap rise that offseason.

And now this summer, we're going to have a similar type of environment because teams entering the offseason are going to have a projected $474 million in salary cap space. And that compares to 2016 when there is a collective $568 million in cap space because of the cap jump. So this summer, there's more than double that we saw the past two off seasons

when it was $176 million and $17, and then $154 million and 16. So we could have another summer where we're seeing more, Baysmore, Turner, Parsons-style contracts where it's like, what? How'd this guy get that? That's what we could be encountering in the coming weeks, Chris. Moreover pays where you're like, it's assinine for so-and-so to make this type of money.

Watch out. Watch out. Been down that road before. Free agency is around the corner. And the story from yesterday was Andrea Godla is doing quite the media tour. He was on the Breakfast Club with Charlemagne, the God, DJ Envi, and Angela Yee. He was on C&D.N. He's making the rounds talking to everybody, but it was the one on CNBC's power lunch yesterday that made some news. Iguodala, as you know, has a few connections. A wide range of shows that be a paradigm. Yeah, well, in connection to the Golden State Warriors and free agents, Kevin Durant and Clay Thompson, he was asked about free agency and the Warriors. and his response as he was leaving the show was nobody's going to the Knicks. Sorry.

Hmm. I mean, in context, it was sort of just like a sort of a joke. In context of the conversation, it's like just that one quote plucked out. Well, no, there has also been Andrea Godala lending people to believe that both of them could be back

with the Golden State War. What do you mean? I don't think he's public. going to express it out. Like, oh, yeah, Katie, Katie's going to leave. It's like, of course you're optimistic then in the end. No, what you say is Kevin's going to do what's good for Kevin. He did say that.

He's going to be my friend either way. He did say that. You don't say, I don't think he's going to New York. And I think he's coming back with us. He did say that, though. Like, he said, I think Katie's going to be back with Golden State, but Kevin's going to do what he wants to do. That's like exactly what he said.

Okay, well, why would he say, I think Kevin's going to be back with Golden State? I'm pretty sure it was in response to the question he was asked. Do you think he really believes that? Who knows, man? Who knows? He really believes that. There's also a report yesterday from Rick Buecker that KD is pissed off of the Warriors following the ruptured Achilles

and that it's going to be Knicks or Nets. So who really knows, man? Who really knows? Who really knows? Like, we're going to find out super soon. And for KD, like, to me, one of the more interesting aspects is regardless of the gossip of what's going on is, like, for his own decision, what's in his control.

Brian Winhorse last week talked about the idea of KD signing the full five-year-max contract with the Warriors with the intentions of being traded a year from now. And that idea to me is intriguing, but I'm not sure it's actually in Katie's best interest because it's the type of thing where if you sign that Supermax, you do secure an extra $57 million guaranteed. Like that is a significant difference because of the fifth year of that contract. However, for KD, over the first four years of that deal, if you sign with the Warriors, compared to any other team, the Knicks or the Nets. Let's just say the Nets for the sake of

conversation. If you sign with the Warriors over the Nets, over the first four years of that deal, the difference is only $6.9 million in salary earnings. It's the fifth year that's the difference. That's where the 50 million guaranteed with the Warriors makes it up to be 57 million more guaranteed. However, if the salary cap continues to rise as it did, as it usually does, around 5% each year, at that time in 2324, KD could sign for about 47.8 million. So the difference in salary earnings over five years comes down to about $10 million. And for KD, there could be an advantage to signing that next contract one year earlier at age 34 instead of at age 35.

So for KD, it's the type of thing where if you sign with the Warriors for that five-year deal and you're putting your destiny in their hands where they're going to trade you to a team, maybe you need more time to decide. Maybe you want another year to think about it. Maybe you really do want to stay there. Then you do it. But if you actually just want to leave anyway, I think it would just be just silly to go back there

and put your destiny in their hands just for an extra $57 million guaranteed when it's really not that. Because you're betting on yourself to be healthy and have the ability to sign that next contract when the time comes whenever it does. So for Katie, it's like, to me, if you're going to leave, just do it now.

I don't think there's any use and going back there just to rehab for a year. If you're going to leave, you've got to do it right now. All right. Why would you go to the Knicks? If you're KD. Yeah. Over the Nets?

Over anybody. Over anybody. Well, they have a nice young core. What? They have one player that they just drafted. They have a solid young core. Who? The New York Knicks.

They have Kevin Knox. Are you giving up on him after one year? Are you serious? That's my nice young core, Kevin Knox? Kevin Knox. I still like Frank Nilakina. I don't care. that they might be trying to trade him.

Frank Millikena is already one of the better perimeter defensive guards in the NBA. He shoots at three. It's got a better chance of killing a fan than going in the fashion. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Okay, here's the thing with Frank Milakina. Of course you wish that he was further ahead

on the offensive end of the floor. But you knew when you drafted him, you knew when you drafted him that the offense was going to be slow to develop. So maybe in the first place, Phil Jackson shouldn't have made that investment in him knowing how long it was going to take. Frankie needs to go somewhere where somebody's going to believe in him because this is what happens to young players in the league.

And it's the politics of the league. It's something I've seen happen to millions of players over the years. You get with the team, a front office changes over, a coaching staff changes over. They don't have some kind of grand interest in your success. If you're not any good, they get to blame the last guy. What they have stock in is the guys that they handpicked. And so they are more invested in their success. And so those guys will get to play. Those guys will get to prove that we are smart.

And so the guys that were of the previous regime, especially young players, they don't get that same level of interest and they are left behind. And it's troublesome. But I do think what would be best for Frankie would be to get somewhere else where somebody that really did believe in him coming out of the draft will nurture him. Because then you are with new faces that it does. it now all of a sudden you have this backbone of people that do believe in you and want you to succeed and will give you every opportunity to succeed because it reflects on them. If Frank Nilequina succeeds, it's a reflection on the drafting of Phil Jackson. If he fails, then they just get to say that ain't our guy. So handpicked guys always have a better chance than the guys that are

left over from a previous regime. And I do think it's a disservice to the kid because his development is obviously going to be stymied. I mean, you just saw it last year. They played Trier over him. I mean, obviously, you would typically use your time to develop. You're losing a thousand games anyway. How about you develop the guy that you took in the top 10 of the draft?

Instead, they played the guy that they, you know, undrafted guy. Well, Trir is a better player right now. He's better player than Frankie? Yeah, he's like three. and a half years older. He should be a better player right now. Okay, but typically you would develop that guy. You would want to be right about your top 10 pick. Yeah, they should have played Frank Nilakina. But like in regards to Kevin Durant going there, that's part of the appeal is the young core. Nilakina, Smith, Knox. But really, the real reason he would want to sign there is not

the fact that there's young guys. It's the fact that another max free agent could come with him. It's the fact that's one of the biggest basketball markets on the planet. So for KD, like, It's about weighing that against cores that are better. A team like the Nets that have a better core that's ready to contribute and ready to make a push in the playoffs. A team like the Clippers, who I don't think he would consider at the same level of the New York teams. But the Clippers, they are ready to take in a superstar and make a leap.

The Knicks are not. The Nix have a lot of work to do. So should he sign with the Nix? No, I think he should go to the Nets if he's going to leave. All right. I love Nix fans. I really do. I hate that your owner is James Dolan.

I really do. I think you have always deserved better. So let me get that out of the way. Kevin, name me the young core that theirs is better than. Just pick a team. I mean,

off the top of my head, there's not, no, wait a minute. You can't sell me on young core. Sometimes I take a minute to calculate these things. I'm slow over here.

Give me a second. The wizard. The wizard. How about the Cleveland? How about the Cleveland Cavaliers? But at least they got Brad Biel. How about the Cavaliers? The Wizards, the Wizards, the Hortons, the Pistons.

I had to pull up like a list of teams. The magic. The Pistons don't have a young core. Exactly my point. Yes. No, but you're selling young core. That's what you're selling. Yeah, their core is not bad.

Of the teams that have a young core, you can't just pick teams that don't have young players. Okay, so I've non-playoff teams. Their core is better than the Hornets. It's better than the heat. It's better than the Wizards. It's better than the Cavaliers, arguably. Maybe not better than the Cavs. Would you rather have Sexton and Garland?

No, it's not better than the Cavs. It's not better than the Kings. The Lakers aren't a young core team anymore. Pelicans, Grizzlies, your bright future son. It's not better than the Timberwolves because of Carl Anthony Towns. He's still young. It's not better than the sons because of Devin Booker for the same reason. Not better than the Mavericks.

Not better than the Pelicans for damn sure or the Grizzlies. So it's not better than the Bullslevese. So it's not. sell me on market. Just sell me on market. Don't sell me on their young core. Because, I mean, this is not, it just doesn't,

they haven't gotten luck. I mean, they've sucked, and then they got Kevin Knox, and then they suck, and they got Frank Nilakina, and they sucked, and they got R.J.

Barrett. If they would have gotten Zion, it's a different world. It is. It's a totally different world. But they didn't, you know? And so it makes it tough right now. But you know what?

Listen, if somebody's going to give him the full, on Max deal, which he will get. With a torn Achilles, then by all means, yeah. Then would they be the only one that would do that? Nets would do it. Do you think the Nets would do it still? I think any team would be happy to do it if they can.

Yeah. Interesting. You think the Warriors will? Yeah. Offer him? Yeah. They would offer him the maximum amount of money they could. I've heard that they will.

Others have reported that they will. So I would expect Kevin Nuren to receive a full full. five-year Supermax offer from the Golden State Warriors. All right. I'd be surprised otherwise. We have not spoken since the entire Al Horford thing popped and the Celtics. So much has happened since last week, man. I know.

Wait, that happened. That happened. Wow. The word is out. The word is out. Like the name that keeps popping up is Dallas as a possible destination. Obviously, he's 33. He'd be 37 by the end of a four-year deal with Al Horford. All right.

twofold. Number one, Horford feels like the kind of guy that is not a superstar, but has superstar level impact, meaning he makes you good, right? Like, it's hard to imagine Al Horford on a bad team. You would really have to have crappy fighters. If you, because he's so good defensively, and he's so good offensively, and he makes people better on both ends of the court. I feel like his impact is tremendous. Where do you think Al Horford would be a great fit. Is it Dallas as a great fit in your mind's eye? And where do you go from here if you're the Celtics? For Horford, like, he's a fit anywhere. He's the type of guy where he can fit into any type of system. You can use him at center if you need to. You can use him at the four if you need to because of the offensive spacing he provides, the playmaking that he provides with his

ability in the half court or going coast to coast. And then as you mentioned, Chris, his defensive ability, as a room protector and a guy, you can switch. Horford has lost a lot. little bit of a step and he had a knee issue last year that should be at least mildly concerning if you're giving him a four-year deal over $100 million, as was rumored by Jackie McMullen and Mark Stein. But with Horford, he's a fit. He's somebody who could accelerate the Mavericks Young Corps and offer support for the Chris Stapps, Porzengis and Luca Donchrich. He's somebody who could compliment Kauai Leonard if he were to go to the Clippers and again, stabilize them in the front court, give them a veteran presence. He's somebody if he went to

the Lakers. He's somebody who could work next to Anthony Davis. If he goes to the Sixers, as was rumored from Tom Havistro and Keith Pompeii from the Philadelphia Inquirer, if they lose out on Jimmy Butler and or Tobias Harris, Al Horford is somebody that like, how many teams can defend a front court with the size and skill of Horford and Bede Simmons? Everybody talks about small ball, which has long been overrated and overblown. Smallball is a myth. Teams do go smaller, but guards are bigger in today's league. Wings are bigger in today's league. And teams still play with size. And a lot of the teams that are up and coming have big players, just big guys. The Yokic and Beads, Yannas's, the Ben Simmons, like, there's a lot of big players.

You need size in today's league. Small balls is a myth. In regards to Horford, like, how many teams can defend that jumbo lineup? There are not, there are a lot of teams that can play smaller and traditional, but there aren't many teams that can play jumbo, like that Sixers team, and still have spacing with Horford and B. Simmons remains an issue shooting with the wrong hand, inability to space to floor. However, like, that size that would be presented with skill, that's a difficult issue that teams would have to try to solve. So the Sixers are intriguing.

I don't think he'll go there, but it's intriguing nonetheless, Chris. Horford can fit anywhere, man. Okay. Why does he not want to be in Boston? I think it's partially because of just reading the tea leaves here of what was reported. I do not know this to be true. But it sounds like Boston did not give him a full offer that he was expecting. Like it was rumored from Jackie McMullen that the Mavericks are rumored to be offering a four-year $112 million contract.

It has also been rumored that Boston's offer was three years or maybe it was like four years at a lower annual number. So maybe for Horford, it's like, you know what? Hurt feelings. It hurt feelings. I'm going to look around and go somewhere else. And without it also, maybe it's also a lifestyle thing. Maybe his family wants to settle down somewhere else. He has a wife and he has a kid and it's the type of thing where maybe they just,

Horford's going to be 33 years old. And this could be the final contract of his career. So maybe it's about like establishing a route somewhere else and there's nothing to do with Boston. There's nothing to do with the organization. It just has to do about where you want to raise your family. It could have to do with that too. It could be all of the above.

We have not spoken since draft night. Who do you think improved the most on draft night? Who improved the most on draft night? Is this in terms of... Who is your favorite draft? I mean, the Pelicans goes without saying, even if you don't factor in Zion, I think the trade down from four in the value they got

is pretty remarkable. The Grizzlies, Morant's at second, I don't love Morant, but I really, really like Morant. I think the trade-up, the aggressive move that they made for Brandon Clark, who I love as a prospect had him ranked in my top 10 and is somebody who I think can be an immediate impact. I think you look at the Grizzlies,

the combination that they have with Morant, Jaron Jackson Jr., and then Brennan Clark, those guys, Clark and Jackson can provide such versatile defense where they can both be room protectors, but both are guys who can switch screens to defend on the perimeter and Morant being a smaller point guard who'll be attacked. You're going to need that support in the defensive end, but also on offense, how well they complement each other.

with Jackson's ability off the dribble, his ability to shoot from three, his ability to roll to the rim, and then Clark, as an explosive guy, rim running, somebody who is a smart, high IQ player, as a passer and is a screener who could maybe also extend his range to three, paired with a dynamic pick and roll a point card, just a playmaking savant like John Morant. It's exciting for the Grizzlies to have that trio together. I think it's a, you don't draft for fate, you draft for talent, but they have a talented core that also happens to be a perfect fit. So those two teams and then the Hawks as well. I think Hunter, the fit there's perfect next to Trey Young.

And then Cam Redish, it's a perfect opportunity to be in a really simplified role as a 3-and-D guy, but also have time to grow into the player that people expected him to be at Duke before he was the third wheel behind R.J. Barrett and Zion Williamson. So those three come to mind the most. Pull up the draft if you get a chance very quickly because I just want to ask you, when is the first time that you were legitimately shocked by a pick? Like go down the draft and when was the first time that you were like, like you wowed, but not like, oh, that's a little higher than I thought he'd go.

Like something that really made you, gave you cause for pause that you just did not see coming. So it wasn't Rui Hachamara going ninth to the Wizards because they're... It was a little high. It was supposed to go lottery. He was expected to be a lottery pick and there was some noise ahead of the draft that it would be like 12 to Charlotte. So it wasn't a shock. Rui's a very likable player. and he's like the highest of high character guys in the draft.

Like he's somebody that you want to bet on. So it's not a big surprise to me that somebody looks at him at being a young 21 years old. It wasn't that. It was Cameron Johnson at number 11 going to the Phoenix Suns. After they traded down, following the T.J. Warren trade that they made earlier in the day. Cameron Johnson is like, it's easier to talk yourself into him. He is the best shooter in the draft. He is somebody who like is a good kid, a hardworking kid who got better in his time.

at UNC, but he's also 23 years old. He has had hip issues in the past. He had a surgery to repair a torn labrum. I believe it was last summer, the summer before. And with him, it's like he projects, in all likelihood, as an average defender. He is not a guy who's dynamic off the dribble. So Cameron Johnson's, he seems sort of like a, in the draft guy, I have a comparison to Jonas Durebko.

That's sort of insulting to Cameron Johnson's shooting ability. but Cameron Johnson is like the knockdown shooting version of Jerebko in my eyes. And that's a good player. That's a really good player because Jerepco's had a long career in their NBA as a role player on multiple teams. And Cameron Johnson will have a long career as well. But with the 11th pick, I'm a bit surprised Phoenix didn't go for more upside here, trying to pair Booker with another star. I think you can get the Cameron Johnson's later in the draft,

especially this year in which there, I think there was quite a lot of appealing role players, including Cameron Johnson, but at 11. that was a shock to me, Chris. Yeah, it's crazy that the sons would do something goofy. Do you think you were more shocked at Cameron Johnson's drafting than Kobe White was? Oh, boy. Yeah. I mean, that was unbelievable.

In the middle of his press conference, it's great. I was on with Mark Titus and Tate Frasier on One Shining podcast last Friday, and Titus was joking. This was a joke to be clear. He's like Kobe White, everybody's, everybody's raving about his reaction, how genuine it was, how great it was. He's like, well, it's actually bad. It was actually bad because Kobe White shouldn't be shocked. He should be up there like, why are you all shocked? Why are you all shocked?

Of course Cameron Johnson's a lottery pick. Did you watch him this last season? Instead, he was more shocked than all of us combined. I tell you what, we see guys go higher than they are expected. And so that one doesn't, I mean, it was stunning. What was stunning the most about that particular pick? like a shooter, a great shooter, going higher than what we expected is for, it's at least somewhat foreseeable.

What is not foreseeable is them saying at the draft that he is older than Devin Booker, which I fell out of my chair. I was like, I feel like me and you have been arguing about Devin Booker for a decade. I feel like he's been in the NBA forever. And I was like, how? How is this guy older? I'm like trying to do the math in my head. I'm like, hasn't Devin Booker been in the league for like six years?

How is this possible? I mean, Cameron Johnson's a guy who feels like he's been in college basketball forever, playing at Pitt for three years and then two years at UNC. Like, he's been around forever. Yeah. So it's the type, he to me is who he is. And that's like a solid role player. And he's going to work out in that sense. But I don't think that that's the guy you want to go with at the 11th pick.

I think in terms of value, it's a poor value pick, even though he could pan out to be a solid player. Okay. So I'm going to give you one that's crazy. So in terms of doing my, when I put out my ringer article about the players that will not fail, the way I do this, just so everybody knows. The death sentence for those guys. No, it's not. I'm only kidding. Let me tell you that what I do is I print out, by the time I am done with this, I'll talk to, you know, I don't know, double digits amounts of people, but I have printed out mock drafts, like usually two separate mock drafts from two different time periods.

and so then I will jot down the notes next to the player and I will try to go through every single player on these mock drafts, right? And so when I go to the draft, then I can see, I can go back through my notes and see what I was told about these players. What kind of intel I got about them? I was surprised but not shocked at the Basley pick when that came off, just because it was a little higher than any of the mocks had. But when there was one player selected, I swear to you, Kevin,

neither of the mock drafts that I had printed off as just a template for here's the players I need to know about, be able to talk about, you know, consider for a list. Jordan Poole was not on any of them. Interesting. I thought you were going to say Marco Silva. No. He went 28th to the Warriors. When they said Jordan Poole, Michigan, I said, who? Like, just because he has not been on my radar in the last month and a half.

I've talked to people about a myriad of. of players that were not drafted the other night. But I don't think I talked to anybody about Jordan Poole. Was he on the ringer list? Yeah, he was. He was on our top 60. What number was he? For the mock, he was 47 for my big board.

I have him 54. And with Poole, like, let me just say this in terms of that ranking, pool's the type of guy. If you're telling me, he's getting drafted to a team with a stable situation and an established offensive system that's going to try to get his ball hog habits. out of his system, I would have had him

ranked much higher than I did. And that's exactly what he was drafted into in the Warriors. For him, it's a perfect fit as a player because he has shown flashes as a passer, but he's more of like just a bucket getter or J.R. Smith type of guy. But with the Warriors, maybe they can develop some of the passing skill that he flashed at Michigan.

He's going to be an interesting guy to watch for that team. Well, then good job by you guys at the Ringer. I will tell you that the one that I first started with when I printed this off was, uh, let me see the date on this. Uh, June 6th, June 6th, uh, the ESPN one of the top 60 players, whatever it was. They're mock draft. They're two round mock draft. I'd use that as a template at one point.

And he is nowhere to be found on that. Nowhere to be found. And so 28 from nowhere to be found a few weeks ago was pretty crazy. You know what I mean? So I don't know. Warriors have done pretty good drafting, guys, so maybe we're all goofy possible. Kevin, we will, by the next time we speak, we're going to be talking about free agency and where everybody is going to be playing.

It's going to be wild. This is going to get, this is going to get crazy, quick, right? By what do we got? A couple days. June 30th. It's like a little weird to get adjusted instead of saying July 1st. I know it. June 30th.

Oh, boy. It's coming soon, man. And then a week after. summer league in Los Vegas. Oh, yeah. I'm looking forward to, and this is a callback to your five players that will not fail article. I look forward to seeing you and your incredible brain. Yes.

In person. You ready for you ready for Shomori Ponds and the Rockets? Because he was on my lane. When he got signed undrafted, he was the only player on my list that didn't get drafted. And then he signed a deal with the Rockets right after the draft. And I mean, I was so excited. I was like, this is exactly what he needs. A total green light team.

He can go play for the Rio Grande Vipers and shoot 5,000 times a game and score 60 points. And this is going to be great. Of all the teams he could have gone to, a Mike Dan Tony run team. Hopefully, let's hope Mike Dantone comes back. You know what we're going to see together, Chris? What? Brick. House.

How dare you? How dare you? I can't wait. I can't wait to go to these. I can't wait to go to these games that just crap on the players that you liked. They're like, oh, yeah,

Hey, Kevin, didn't you love Cam Reddish? You know what? You do inspire me, though, to be even more, I'm a generally positive person, but you inspire me to be even more positive. You said that following the pawns comment.

No, the instant draft reaction pod. I listened to you guys, the one you did with Charks and Danny, yeah, yeah, right after? and you're talking about, you know, the hawks and what they did in the draft. And then you said, you know, I'm not as high on Hunter as other people are.

I've got him 15th. And I'm like, only Kevin O'Connor could find the positive in a team taking a player that he thinks is the 15th best fourth overall. Like, I would be like, this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Like, why would you take DeAndre Hunter at 4 if you think he's the 15th best player? Again, it's about fit and expectations. That's Kevin O positive. It's about fit and positive. It's not positive. It's about fit and expectations.

And with DeAndre Hunter, in terms of playing next to a point guard like Tray Young, who is going to orchestrate your offense, it minimizes the need for Hunter to do the things that he is worse at, handling the ball, playmaking, making decisions off the dribble. For Hunter, it's like now he can be maximized within a role spotting up and shooting threes, attacking. attacking clothesouts in a straight line, attacking mismatches, playing the four in some of their versatile lineups that they can have, and then just really just grinding on the defensive end of the floor.

That's where with Hunter, it's like if I'm ranking guys for the Atlanta Hawks, Hunter is higher on my list. Listen, you're usually at the top of the draft because you weren't any good. You take the talent. This is an age-old story.

Otherwise, you look at it and you go, you know what? We already have Clyde, Exhler, the better fit by him is Sam Bowie. Not this Jordan guy from North Carolina. And that's how that happens. But this year, the drafts, look, man, I had Brandon Clark ranked 7. I had Grant Williams

ranked 8th. And these guys went in the 20s. Like this year, if you're evaluating the players from like 4 through 16, 17, or 18, like, it's pretty flat with my personal rankings. I agree with you. That is the fair side of this, which is, if you told

me that who got taken 15th was Seku Dumboya for the Detroit Pistons. Okay fine. Let's say he's better than Diannoy Hunter. That's totally plausible. It would not be a surprise. Yes. He's also much younger. He's like four years younger and

like he has a long way to go. So he's not going to be better over the next three or four years in all likelihood. He's the type of guy. It's a long-term investment. And that was Detroit? That was Detroit. Yes. Yeah. My man Eddie Stefanski's a good draft there too. So I think it might be a good little bet that that kid's good.

Anyways, that's going to do it for our show today. I can't wait for free agency and then Summer League soon after. Thanks, Kev. I'll talk to you next week. See you next week, Chris. Thanks to everybody for listening to another edition of The Mismatch. We will talk to you next week.