The Ringer NBA Show - Is OKC Inevitable? Plus, Swing Factors for Top Contenders and Take Forgiveness Day. | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Justin, Rob, and Wos are back together to discuss the potential NBA Finals preview between the Thunder and the Celtics on Wednesday night. They discuss their takeaways even though both teams missed key contributors, who they’d pick if Boston and OKC meet in the Finals, and more. They then move on to discussing what the swing factors are for the top contenders. Lastly, it’s Take Forgiveness Day. Each of the guys bring an old take that they are holding themselves accountable for. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, humanoids. It's the Maskman David Shoemaker. It's a new era in professional wrestling, and that means a new era here at the Ringer Wrestling show. Kaz here, every Monday and Thursday hang out with me and my guys' shoes on the Masked Man show. And Ben Cruz here. Come kick it with me, Cal, and Brian on Tuesdays for Ringer Wrestling worldwide, where we hit on the most interesting headlines and even react to some of Maskedmans and even your hottest takes. Don't tap out. Tap in to the Ringer Wrestling show feed now on Spotify. or wherever you get your podcasts. Worldwide. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me,

Big Was, and back from Boy Meets World with Minkis and talking to all his friends, Rob Mahoney. How was it? First of all, would do a Boy Meets World rewatch, pod, video, content, whatever we want. Just a lot of wholesome life lessons to be learned, I think. I've been singing the Boy Meets World theme song in my head, practically ever since that podcast.

What a time. The kids don't know about real drama, is what I would say. The problem is they do know, because remember, they tried to reboot it as Girl Meets World, where Cori and Topanga, I think, were the parents and it was about their daughter. I didn't see it. Didn't seem like it went well. Yeah. But was your time away from us restful?

We had a very lively podcast without you. Yeah, I had a nice time. What happened while I was gone? What did you guys get up to? Waz had some very specific opinions. What did we get up to? I've already forgotten, to be honest. The white American draft.

Oh, the white American draft. I did see a very spirited rallying cry from Waz stirring the white Americans and stirring their inner pride and to find it within themselves to meet their European counterparts on the level playing field that is the NBA court. I was I was roused, was. I got to say, I was, I was called to action. Listen, in the past few years, there's been so much chatter about the young white American male and his disaffected nature and his alienation.

I'm just here as sort of like a warm hug. Like, it's going to be okay. Like I said before, there's greatness within you, young white man. I personally was inspired as well. So we appreciate your activism on this show. Thank you. So on today's episode on the. back and we're going to get into take forgiveness days. We're going to do a little

Miacolpa action on some of our takes from earlier this season. But I think we have to start first and foremost with the potential NBA finals preview we witnessed last night, Celtics versus the thunder. Unfortunately, a little bit of, you know, not, we didn't get the full show because a couple guys were out there. First and foremost, it sounds like Christopps Porzingis might have like the fungus illness from the last of us. I don't know what's going on there. What's going on with him having an unknown virus? Just the phrase unknown virus does not sit well with me. Did they say virus or respiratory illness?

What did they say? I feel like I've seen the word virus. I've heard virus, which might be technically correct, but it sounds more ominence. Yes. Coronavirus. Well, either way, whatever he's got, fungal, last of us oriented, zombified, that dude's just sitting on the bench. I guess it must not be communicable in an easy way, whatever he's got. You're saying he should be quarantining or something.

But just if you're not, if you're sitting up the game because you're sick, you should go home. You should not be attending with your teammates. I think that's a reasonable expectation. But apparently the Celtics doctors know a lot more than we do. Should we be doing the Celtics title chances because Borzingus is an anti-masker? Is that what we're going with? That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying help the team stay healthy.

That's what I'm advocating for. But we got a pretty good show nonetheless. Hell yeah. This one went down to the wire. Rob, what was your takeaway from this one? Chet looks ready to go. And I think ready to go in exactly the way they need no Jalen Williams for this game, which is critical in any kind of high leverage matchup for the Thunder.

Because I think all of us on this podcast want to see what he can do for them against elite defenses, what kind of secondary creation he's going to be capable of in a long playoff run and really competitive series. Without him, I thought Chet stepped right into that kind of role. And most importantly, not just doing the usual, stuff, but some intermediate scoring, right? Like getting into the lane, finding the pocket within the Celtics defense, creating in a way that the thunder, I think overall, really, really need for the health of what they're trying to execute. And so between Shea doing his usual act, looking unstoppable offensively, the defense being as formidable as advertised, one of the few

that can actually slow the Celtics down for any meaningful amount of time. And Chet delivering in that way, I got to say, I know a lot of people have the questions about the thunder, they sure look like a championship team to me. Yeah, I thought last night for me, the offense, I've still got a lot of questions. As good as Chet looked last night, it's not as if he was driving any of the advantages, right? It was like him working off of Shay being, you know, a top two or front-running MVP candidate. And that's important because that's what they're going to need in order to meet whoever comes out of the East and the NBA finals. I was more impressed by their defense in the sense that, like, the Celtics got up 63-3s, which I don't think is a good game point.

against the Celtics to let them get up that many threes. But to me, it's how they got there. And, you know, I text you guys. I was like, OKC makes these guys actually have to break a sweat to generate good offense. Like, they can't just go through the motions, which not most, not out of 10 NBA teams can't say that. No. And so the defense is completely legit. I thought even in the loss and the win against the nuggets previously this weekend, this past,

weekend, I felt like the Hartenstein heft and like, it's just a difference. They're just not as paper thin. It's not like paper mache their interior defense anymore. We know what they do on the perimeter in terms of like swarming, you know, around offenses the way that they do. I was like, for me, it's the defense that kind of impressed me in the way that they made Boston actually have to work. You know, some of those shots could have went in of like make a mislead kind of things, but for me it's just process. Like Boston, has to actually like really methodically work through this defense to generate good offense. And I was quite impressed by that. It's the defense and the overall just swarming just the depth of the

defenders that they have, but also the malleability. Like yes, they have Isaiah Hartonson, who's made a pretty pronounced difference for them on the interior. He's just basically built of marble and he lays the wood in the way that they just didn't have last year. But it's also the fact that they could put their $30 million center and company. bring them off the bench just because they want to try something new with that starting lineup. I think the starting combo that they started with hadn't started a single game, just to say started four different times. SGA, Kasten Wallace, Aaron Wiggins, Ludo, Chet Holmgren.

And to be able to basically try something new in a high leverage game at the end of the season just speaks to kind of like their overall principles and they're just like P.OV and all this stuff. I asked earlier in the season, Mark Dagnol, like, why, do you try all these different lineup combinations to start with getting guys like Dylan Jones, guys who aren't really in the rotation anymore. And it's because he wants to like build just familiarity with different combinations. And it comes home to Roos in a game like this where they didn't look out of sorts trying something different. I think for them especially, they're going to need to find a lot of their offense along the way over the course of the playoffs.

They're going to have to invent new ways to score that are outside of their normal rhythm, they're outside of system. not unlike what the Celtics had to do last year. I think it's very normal and a part of the evolution of these teams. And they're going to have to find it from someone like Aaron Wiggins who did not have a good game,

but has been balling a lot lately. Really scoring for them has really come on strong over the course of the season. It's had a great just like month or six weeks stretch because he's been put in those sorts of situations. And you can see Kays and Wallace have those sorts of games. You can see Kenrich Williams come into the lineup.

This is a perfect Kenrich Williams matchup, by the way. The fact that the Thunder can just reach onto their bench and throw out a lanky, versatile, good rebounding wing who can actually hang with some of these guys. There just aren't any other teams that have that kind of luxury. And so OKC's depth, even when J. Dub is out of the lineup and Alex Crusoe is out of the lineup, is so formidable.

And it comes from, as you're saying, JV, like Dagnalt fostering the confidence in those guys, putting them in positions to succeed and pushing, putting them in positions to explore what they can offer the thunder as well. Yeah, that's kind of the same thing with Chet, basically been given the second half of the season to really find himself in a way that I think is going to bear fruit in this game, first and foremost, but definitely in the playoffs. I mean, we could talk about some of the concerns, I think, are well-founded about the supplementary offense that the Thunder have at times had to reach for it. It hasn't been quite there. J-dub, probably one of the prime candidates for that

in the playoffs, but obviously Chet is going to have to be able to give that extra punch. And I think in this game, you saw the difference that it makes for this team where they could just go to him because there's just nobody else like him. Another team just doesn't have a Chet who could start at center and basically guard out on the perimeter, but also go down into the trenches and be a rim protector for you. And then also play next to Hartinstein. It doesn't really change much of what they're doing fundamentally. Being able to basically pace him out, not going out at the deadline and giving any sort of

like of a safety valve or any sort of net in case like he didn't play well if the injury just kind of lingered into the second half. I think really just speaks to their organizational just POV and just like how they're just doing things so meticulously and not being too overwhelmed with the stakes and the fact that they are probably the favorites for the title right now that they're still going to do the little things that have led to their cess and gotten them to this point.

I think the only reason that stuff plays is because of the internal improvement. It's because a guy like Lou Dort, for example, is just knocking down threes overall this season, is punishing teams that try to leave him. is not only doing that, but then when he freaks teams out enough that they start to close out,

can sidestep into other threes and other looks. Like, that's who Lou Geord is right now. And will he be that guy in May? I think it's fair to ask. We're going to, we're going to certainly find out sooner than later. Will Alex Caruso be that kind of player when he's back in the lineup?

Because teams are going to dare him to shoot. This is what the Thunder make you do, is they force you to give up some of those looks, two guys like Lou Doort, two guys like Caruso, two guys like Aaron Wiggins. I just think that they're all at a point. maybe Crusoe accepted because he's had such a weird shooting season overall.

But Aaron Wiggins and Dort have evolved as shooters to a level where I'm not really comfortable leaving those guys wide open. I don't feel great about the prospect of sort of the either or game that the Thunder put you into, even knowing that we've seen them have lulls with that half court offense was. We've seen them have, you know, 18 point quarters where it's just like something's a little off. The process is good, but they're not knocking down the shots. I just think overall they're coming into a state and a place where I feel really, confident in so many of those role players right now. The thing about Lou Dort last night, that was kind of crazy.

You guys mentioned the side step three, but also there was like a couple of drives where he just took Derek White to the rack, just put him on his hip and babyed him, which I thought was interesting because I thought against Dallas last year, part of the strategy was like, all right, Lou Dort's not a complete zero from three. Let's run him off the line and he's going to make bad decisions. He's going to take the wrong layup. He's going to make the wrong kickout. This year he's, like, more confident and patient when he gets ran off the line.

So I'm just like, wait a minute. Like, Lou Dord is becoming a complete, like, guard in that way. And that's something to watch because, you know, like Bruce Bowen, you know, to borrow somebody from yesterday, another chip angling disciple, he could knock down quarter threes with the best of him. Cool. But that man could not dribble. No. That man was not going to the basket and finishing over length and.

you know, like putting people on his hip. He wasn't doing any of that. Lou Dord is like, all right, I'm dead eye from three now, which I think it's safe to say, like, he's making like 40%. It's inarguable at this point. He just can shoot flat out. And now he's adding some of the ball skill stuff. That, that I think is going to be key.

Because the best teams in the playoffs are going to be like, all right, you've made a couple of threes. We're going to close out on you a lot harder now. Now, you know, do you have it in you to, make the right decision whether on the drive or the kick or on the shot that you ultimately decide to take. Listen, I think we're in Fulme 17 times with Ludo and just like counting on his three point shooting.

But I think that's where you get back to the defense and how much that is just like such a foundation for everything that they do and something that you can almost bank on as a strong counter against one of the most three point dependent but also most high octane offenses we've ever seen in the same. Celtics. I've long had this fascination with as the three-pointers and just the attempts just kind of skyrocketed about what was going to happen defensively because I felt like there's always going to be an advantage for someone to finally coming up with the right sort of approach

in order to counterbalance that. Like, threes were just such a powerful tool to harness. It seemed almost impossible to the point where we were getting into defenses where teams were selling out with two rim protectors and basically living with the variance on the three-point end. It's not as much of a either or a situation. The Thunder actually do probably prioritize the interior as opposed to a lot of the threes. And that's probably why we saw the Celtics rack up 63, which I believe was tied for the third most in NBA history in this game. But just their ability to both guard the interior with players that look like guards, but they're basically so stout and long and aggressive that they could also, and they're so mobile

that they could also get out and provide like a credible contest is like not. It's something that we've never seen before. And so I almost wonder, like, yeah, we can marvel at the Celtics ratcheting up 60 plus threes. But if the Thunder have the only solution to ungodly amounts of volume, like, that might be the Trump card in these playoffs. I know we can start every discussion after a Celtics lost with the token. Like, did they take too many threes in this game? They did. But probably because they had to.

This is what I'm saying is like, I think this matchup nudges them in that direction overall. and that's something they're going to have to monitor if these two teams do meet in the finals. I think having Chris Apz Porzingis out of the lineup counterintuitively also nudges them in that direction. We think of KP as a space five, but his ability to punish mismatches, get to the elbow,

shoot over the top of guys inside is so important to the overall balance of their team. And Al Horford bless him for playing fucking amazing basketball overall. It just has been incredible, but it is not that, right? He will get the occasional duck in, but mostly he's going to be at the three,

point line. Mostly he's going to be sniping from outside. He's proven to be very good at it, but it's a different element to your offense. I just think there was that stretch in the second quarter where the Thunder didn't have Shea on the floor. They obviously didn't have J-Dub on the floor because he's been out of the game. They had Isaiah Hardinstein. They had Chet and had Usman Jang all together. And they

were just mashing everything that came inside up. And then Kaysen Wallace is at their chasing dudes on the perimeter. Isaiah Joe was putting in work. That's not a lineup that's going to churn out points for OKC. But they are a lineup that can chew you up and spit you out every time you try to drive and force you into only

relying on those threes. And that's always the delicate balance with this stuff. It's like when you're choosing to execute to create threes that can be good offense. When threes are all you've got, you're in like pray and spray mode at that point. Yeah, and I think the ultimate question, last night Drew Holiday

and Al Horford took 23s. I think most teams that play the Celtics, that's the outcome that they're aiming for. Our 23s, combined by Drew Holiday and Al Horford. And so, you know, I've seen Drew Hollidays make four threes in the game before. Like, he has it within them to do it.

But, you know, specifically in the playoffs, I've seen them miss some plum three-point opportunities. It didn't really happen for real for them last year in the playoffs, particularly in the Eastern Conference playoffs, but it's definitely something to monitor. Yeah. I mean, I do think Chris Thompson makes a huge different. By the way, I mean, six of 12. He killed it.

You definitely saw it, though, like the missing Christops, especially when the Thunder went to the zone, because Chris Stops is just kind of the ultimate zone buster there. As long as, like, the quartercepts don't just completely envelop his body. Like, he should be able to provide that for them in this matchup. It just seemed like the Thunder were the more pragmatic, practical approach here. And it's obviously on the defensive side, just being able to counterbalance the high volume,

the high variance of what the Celtics were doing, but also offensively where it's just like Shea just he gets to the line, man, and he's going to do it all the time. Like he basically had one fewer free throw attempt that the Celtics did as a team. And it's just like, that's repeatable, you know? Like, where's the Celtics? Yeah, like maybe they might shoot their way into four wins. Like, but I can bank on Shea doing this four times in a series and then getting the win

as a result of that. I absolutely agree. I don't, I think the three point, the free throw stuff is going to carry. Um, because look, at the end of the day, like you cannot afford to give this guy any daylight for his shot. That's why he's drawing these files. A lot of it is foul hunting, but it's not get it twisted. He's good at it.

He's really good at it. Shouts to my guy, Lou Will, who on his podcast is like, all you guys complaining about the foul drawn, we taught him that shit. He was my brook. I told him how to do that. From one of the best ever do it, to be honest with you. That's right. But what do you think about that aesthetically?

Because I think Shay is starting to get a little bit of blowback, especially when you see like in the Nuggets game where he's not even being touched and he's just flailing around. Like do you find it off putting to watch him? That one file that he got against the nuggets at the free throw line where he's leaning all the way into the, that was ridiculous.

But I think there'll be a lot less of that in the playoffs, honestly. And it's going to be, you know, if he doesn't get there 12 or get there nine. And it's going to be honest to God had to file this guy type of attempts. I don't think in the playoffs he's going to get, you know, somebody's benefited at that. out calls because generally speaking, that's not how

the playoffs go. And so I think people like him are going to actually get their yokeage, those kind of guys that like you can't give them oxygen. If you give them oxygen, they kill you. What do you want defendants to do, man? He draws a lot of fouls because he's the best one-on-one player in the league right now.

He's driving more than anyone else in the league right now. And it's not as if the thunder overall are winning games because they're dominating the free throw margin, right? And so I think if it were him and another teammate doing the same thing. Maybe it would grate on me a little more. I love watching him try to score.

I love watching him go through guys. And frankly, a lot of the times defenders object, it's like Jalen Brown with a forearm in Shea's chest, and you're wondering why they called a foul. But that is another thing, I will say. He's got a Janus-esque off-arm Billy Club that he likes to employ. I mean, they all do. It's true.

His is pretty up there in terms of aggression. But it's part of the game, man. as a defender, you know what I mean? Draw that foul. I also want to say this in Shea's defense because I was a bit of a James Hardin Apologist too, just from the perspective of like if it works and it's efficient and you can put up the kinds of numbers James Hardin was putting up throughout his career, you should probably do it.

Was it aesthetically pleasing? Not always. And some of that was when Hardin would drive. He would obviously pull up, you know, through guys arms. Hook the guys arm's arms and pull up, but he didn't even do it with the attempting of a shot. He would just throw the ball in the air and wait for the wards. and almost like force the whistle in that way. One thing I really like about Shay

is he plays until he hears it. And he's going to throw the shot up. It's going to be weird and off balance, even if he's trying to bait out the contact. But he's playing to get up a shot. And he's going to do it in a way that may be conducive to a whistle. But I don't think he's out of bounds, frankly.

The Hardin thing that I objected to was the three-point shot, Faust. Just the falling over kind of, yeah. Freaking crazy. That's what I'm saying. Like, we live through Hardin. Yeah. Yeah, we live through, this is like ethical Hardin is what I've always kind of referred to Shea as.

Like, yes, he gets away with some stuff, but it's within the flow of what they're doing offensively. He's not dribbling at the top of the key for 20 fucking seconds and then just trying to like get up underneath somebody with a side step three. Like it's a completely different experience. Just so people at home understand that Justin's been ethical pilled with his mustache and his, you know, his flannel shirt, which he called a dress. flannel. He's in the land of ethical non-monogamy, y'all. So that's why the ethical is in his brain. He's just about ethics these days.

Justin, could you outline for us what separates a regular flannel from a dress flannel? It's a great question. One price. I'm not going to like Pendleton. I'm going to like the bougie knockoff trying to do Pendleton, but it's more expensive whatever reason. But I don't know. This one just sits a little nicer.

It's not like I'm wearing it for warmth. I'm actually wearing it for aesthetic purposes. Yeah. This one's like a little tighter, but I also have a flannel from the same maker that's a little bit chunkier and bigger, but also basically in the same pattern, but a different color. I would say 80% of my wardrobe is flannel. So I was built for this environment.

Someone would say I found Portland, but I think Portland found me. Yeah, let's all be honest about that. Big facts. But yeah, no, I just, I get it. Every time someone's going to be in the spotlight and they're going to do the herky-jurkey stuff and just like maneuver their way to the line, people are going to be upset about it. But it's like, it almost is like, I'm not going to complain about the brutalist using AI when like we've witnessed like Marvel movies and like Transformers movies just doing like basically doing movies in front of a green screen where there's no actual people. Like there are degrees to this.

certainly so. Especially I think the contrast always comes out in games like this because Jason Tatum in some games doesn't play in a way that facilitates foul calls. In some games I think he gets kind of a bum whistle to be honest with you. But it's not helping the fact that Jalen Brown

just did not participate in the way that the Celtics needed him to. So much of like if Chris that Spasforzingis isn't going to be out there. If Tatum is doing frankly about as much as you can reasonably expect him to do, Tatum was great. He had a great game.

A lot of the supplementary creation and the ability to step outside, just like the normal rhythms that are generating all those threes, we're looking at you, Jalen Brown. We're looking at you to push through defensive pressure to score against some of these guys who are smaller but stout

to make hay of matchups that, yes, are difficult. But frankly, if you're going to succeed at the highest levels, those are the matchups you have to be able to, if not win, at least leverage at the level that Jalen Brown did in last year's playoffs. And look, Jalen Brown, to get no free throw attempts in this game,

I think is kind of inexcusable. I get it. They're packing a paint. You're probably passing it out when you draw two. But he's got to be better at forcing the issue, especially when they got guys like Wiggins and Isaiah Joe out there, like attack those guys and beat them the hell up. Yeah, I appreciate Brown's perspective, especially when things get tight. He has the doggedness that you really want to see unearth from this team when they get into crunch time situations. And in the playoffs, they obviously went to him a lot there. But I think Wads is right. You want to see him put his head down, get to the rack, manufacture something, as opposed

to like step back into a three there's i think it was against the lakers game where things were getting down to the wire there and he just like airballed a three and it's just like oh that's that's not what you want from jaylon brown there but i have a hard time just conjuring up any sort of worry at this point with the southics i guess this is just what happens in the encore season with the champions just like oh i i know what the issues are but i'm not going to get into a tizzy into it until i see them fail in this regard in a high leverage playoff series like we could talk about like oh over reliance on threes, not having Chris stops, Drew, once again, kind of being a dud offensively. But like, it's such a known quantity at this point. I can't manufacture any outrage

over it. I have a question for you guys today. Who are you picking if these two lined up in the final, the NBA finals? Okay, see. Yeah, I still have the thunder. Maybe that's because I picked them going into the season. Yeah, same. You guys think the Thunder are going to win the championship this year. I do. Yeah. Do you not? No. No. No shot. No shot. No. I think they're coming out the West. Who do you think it's coming out of the West then was? See, that's the thing. I'm taking the field over O KC. I haven't drilled down on an actual team yet. I just sure if you give me the field, I'm going to take the field. But if you're going to tell me to pick one team, I'm picking the thunder. They're not coming out to West. They're not tiger.

Oh, man. Shouts to Ernie L's. If I had to pick one team that wasn't O KC. Yeah. Yeah, it probably be Denver. So long as my guy Gordon plays. Long as Gordon plays, it'll probably be him. Probably be done.

But the cast, that's a tough one. It's tough. This episode of The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by State Farm. There's a lot to say when buying a new home or car, but only one thing to say when you need help to protect them. Like a good neighbor, state farm is there. A state farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need, like a good neighbor, state farm is there. Yes, and that's actually a good entree to the second part of this conversation we wanted to have here. I asked you guys to come up with basically the swing factors for a lot of the biggest contenders on the board here,

because we've gotten to the point where it really is four, maybe five if you really want to stretch it. it like I would be surprised if anyone but those teams made it into the NBA finals at this point. But, you know, there's still some slight concern. So what are, I guess X factors is traditionally what we call these, but like what can swing a title run one way or another for the biggest teams? And I think for Denver wise, you hit it for me. I think it's Aaron Gordon. This is a third time now he's missing time with this calf strain.

And you just look at like the product one, just the eye test of it. And they look like they have so much more margin for error when Gordon is playing. playing, but when he's not, all of a sudden, Russ seems essential as opposed to this bonus that they could just take what they can get. And especially under the microsop of a playoff series, just the fact that he does throw away possessions a lot of the times I think is going to matter more. But, you know, just you look at the numbers. Like, he's basically on off, net rating wise, like right there with Yokich right now. I think Yokic is at 10.2. I think Aaron Gordon is at 10.1. So like, if this thing is going to linger into the playoffs, I don't know how, what they could do about

that, Rob. He really is. the piece that makes their rotation makes sense. And that is concerned. Especially on defense. Especially on defense. And now like, so if there's one big swing factor for the nuggets, it's that of all the contenders,

they are easily the worst defensive team. And so they just might not be good enough defensively to win. If they are good enough defensively to win, it'll be because they can kind of hold water on that end and the offense will be overwhelming. But when you're bleeding all those points, especially without Aaron Gordon, it puts so much pressure on the offense to be in high gear all the time to

overcome everything that you're giving up the other way. And so when you don't have Gordon, you're missing his defense, you're missing his kind of connecting playmaking, you're missing his rebounding. You're also missing by percentage the best three-point shooter on the team this season, which is quite an evolution from the Aaron Gordon. It's crazy. But that's why I think as much as anything, it is Aaron Gordon, but even within that, if you want to zero in on what offensively can sort of swing the way things go for the nuggets, I think it's so much to do with their spacing against high-level competition. And you saw it last night against the wall. wolves too. If you can kind of crowd Yokic and shrink his passing lanes at the same time,

you have a real shot to put the nuggets in a box. And that gets harder and harder, the more you put these sort of borderline shooters on the floor and you have a guy like Aaron Gordon out. Yeah, the nuggets, they've lost four straight against the freaking wolves. Like a team that knocked you out in the playoffs last year, for you to not be able to get one win off of them, like play with some level of pride and beat them one time in the regular season, like, that's a bad omen. Aunt Edwards just absolutely loves every single matchup the Nuggets

for it. Like he feels so confident and empowered against this guy and now, you know, and shouts to Aunt Edwards, he said, I've been watching Luca tapes about how to beat these double teams. He looked at. He's getting off of it much faster. He knows

exactly where he wants to go with it. It's kind of crazy. Some of those whips to Jaden McDaniels in the corner out of the double, that superstar That's what we've been waiting for for man. He absolutely loves playing against Denver's defense. And then, you know,

Jamal Murray just looks horrible. Yeah. He just looks hard. He looked bad against them in the playoffs last year. Last night, man, they were just bullying this guy. And he felt harried. He felt pressured. He felt like he was feeling the size.

And yeah, they got to figure. They got to clean that up. Because if the Murray, if they're guarding your Yokic and Murray, too, game with like two and like a quarter right like they're they're shading guys but not completely selling out right and murray can't find any space then it's like this shit is easy to guard yeah i appreciate the i guess ethicalness of of the thunder or the nuggets is three point shooting because they have managed to be one of the best teams percentage wise but one of the lowest volume teams it's

such a stark contrast to not only with the celtics but what even we're getting with the minnesota to Timberwolves with their ratcheting up 43s a game. The nuggets are basically like, now we're just going to let Yokish create the best shot and we'll take whatever we're going to get. But I do think it comes to bear sometimes, like the margin for error is just a little bit slimmer when you have a team like the wolves that is going to ratchet it up in that regard. I do think it makes it a little bit more difficult. And so it really is incumbent on them to execute on the highest level.

And so if you don't have a Gordon, if you don't have Gordon hitting in the way that he has, or Christian Brown, who before the season was like a good shoot, but not someone you would rely on. Like you need all those things to be clicking. And the Nuggets just feel like they need to be optimized all the time in order to play in some of these games. One thing I will say, though, the size advantage is real. And you saw that in the first game against the Thunder where Yokch was basically hunting Hartenschine. And we talked about like what a physical pricing Hartnstein is.

But like Yokch was seeking him out just to bully him into the basket. And so they can keep doing that. And that's the thing in the like. individual matchers. We always say this. The playoffs is like a boxing match. The styles make the fights, right? And I think in an individual matchup, like, I could just see several games

or Hardinstein just gets two quick files. Just you're out of here. Immediately three minutes into the first quarter. Same with Chet. Like, you know, and then now your defense is compromised where you're, like, you're making your doubles and triples obvious. And that has, like, these compounding effects. But again, the defense is definitely some of the monitor.

like I even think Aaron Gordon is their best matchup against Ann Edwards because he can be the most physical although Anne can dribble by him. Yeah, we saw that last year in the playoffs some too. I mean, Anne was too fast for Gordon. He was too big for KCP. He treated KCP like he was his child. It was discussed. Same with Christian Brown, who freaking Zach Harper has me messed up calling his kid

Braun instead of Brown. I do know. It looks like he's diesel enough to guard. But like it just does whatever he wants to get to him too. Yep. They ask a lot of Kristen Brown in terms of the perimeter defense. And so if you want to point to like where might their defense breakdown in particular, it's not just, oh, you know, like Yokic isn't the most flexible pick and roll defender.

It's not just Michael Porter Jr. sort of okay. It's like they don't really have a great go-to defensive stopping option. Christian Brown is quite good and works really hard. Payton Watson is a little too skinny. Payton Watson is a little too skinny at this point. Aaron Gordon, as we said, I mean, asking him to hang with aunt is ridiculous. Asking anyone to hang with aunt is ridiculous. So they have guys who can try and they can rotate in those matchups, but the Nuggets aren't a flexible defensive team. They do have a lot of size and that size helps, but they don't have a lot of chess pieces to move around the board per se.

Yeah. Well, it sounds like, was, you're becoming a little bullish on the wolves. Like, do you think, because, like, slowly they've been rising up. Okay, but we're not like leaving. No, no. Do you think the wolves are going to go to the finals? No, but.

They employ Julius Randall. They can't go to the finals. I think quietly, though, if you have Julius Randall, they won't even let you in. You can't make, no. It's like having the friend with the wrong shoes, you can't get into the club. Yeah.

That was from a place of pay, Justin. I hear you showing up and Doc Martins to the club I do wear a lot of boots these days don't get to break out the new balances as much as I'd like but no but I mean the Warriors are gaining a lot of attention is like maybe the dark horse

in the West here seems like steadily the wolves at the very least have found balance before where they were just like struggling to be in some of these games yeah I think they're playing way better than they were easily but since we're talking around the West why don't we talk about the thunder then?

Is there anything that we hadn't talked about in the Celtics game that is going to worry you? Like, Rob, what do you have is there a swing factor? I think it's mostly what we already discussed, which is the secondary tertiary offense. Their half-court offense is actually quite good in the regular season, but it does have those spells. And I think those spells will get worse against higher levels of competition more consistently. And so a lot of it is going to be Jalen Williams and Ched, where I thought were pretty good in that Dallas series.

last year that the Thunder lost, one of them is going to have to be very good to great in order to have a really sustained championship level run. And both might have it in them. And it's great to have two possibilities so that maybe one guy doesn't have to do it all the way through and it can be a little bit more matchup dependent. But they're going to need some diversity to what they do on offense beyond just shaping, generally unstoppable and creating kind of driving kick action for everybody else. Yeah.

I think it's the difference between having options and having versatility. malleability, whatever buzzword you want to throw out there versus knowing exactly what the order of operations is. If I'm Denver, I know I'm going to do this and this. And if not that, then this. Whereas like the thunder, it's almost like a giant flowchart where there's like 90 different options. And it's like, oh, well, against this match or this sense, I could use this guy. But maybe even this guy, like they have so many different options to cycle through. I do wonder sometimes if you're going to waste time in a critical playoff game, trying Wiggins because he's been playing well or trying Joe in certain situations. But oops, he gave away. too much on the defensive end.

Like that optionality, as the NBA likes to say, sometimes can work against you. I think it's important to, with a young team developing the confidence of these guys to say, look, this isn't just a Shay and the Pips, right? Even though we know it is, we want you guys to feel like you're more than that,

feel more empowered. Go ahead. Take over a possession, Isaiah, Joe. Who cares? Like, go ahead. Do the same thing, Rooda. And that stuff is nice and it's cute and it's cool in the regular season. But in the playoffs,

you do that and turn it over one possession, brick a shot the other. Your confidence now is like, I don't know, man. Like every possession counts. And like you wonder if they, like you said, develop that sort of know how being like, you know what, this thing is open for me, but let's run this other thing

that makes more sense for how our offense is supposed to operate. They also feel like the kind of team too, and you'll see this in the playoffs sometimes, where teams that are not amazing offensive rebounding teams in the regular season have the personnel to crank it up when they really, really want to. And you could see them, especially the more that they play big with Chet and Isaiah Hardenstein together, they could mash the offensive glass.

And that's another way to kind of max out what you're doing in the half court, right? Is not only you're getting the great first shot or fouls from Shea, not only getting the secondary and tertiary stuff from J-Dub and Chet, but if you're also cleaning up misses, then I think you're putting yourself in a different category of execution, too. And my thing with the Thunder again with their offense is like, what happens in the playoffs when Chet misses two straight three-pointers on two straight possessions. On that third one, is he going to take it even if he's completely wide open or Hartenstein misses two of those?

He'd be shooting them shit from like the free throw line sometimes. The floater. He misses two straight of the push shots. Yeah. Right? Like he misses two straight of those and it doesn't go swish like it has been doing all season. And he gets it at the free throw throw the third one up. And if he misses that way, like that's those are the things that I think about.

with this team and whether they're going to be able to execute in the tightest spots in the playoffs. On the other side of the bracket, the Celtics, I think we kind of talked through it. Mine is just old guys. Yeah. Yes, it's KP. Their old guys got to make it through. It's Drew. And then it's Horford.

Horford is playing incredible having one of the best like late career stretches he's had over the past week plus. But, you know, sometimes the music stops. And it's just like if you get the wrong matchup, if the opponent's a little bit more dynamic, then he might be a little bit more. exposed. But the fact that he is still keeping his feet moving against some of the bigger body, Lukas and type is, I've been marveling this entire week at what he's been able to do. He's been awesome. But again, a lot is asked of him. And they've shown that they can win without Chris Epps forzingis, without Drew Holiday at 100% dealing with some of these injuries, just normal regular season stuff. But things are so much easier if they don't have to do that.

And so as we said earlier, if anything with the Celtics right now feels like nitpicking, they're not a shoe in, but they have everything that they need to win. We've seen it empirically. So as long as those guys are healthy and relatively in good flow and shape in terms of their games, I think Boston's going to be just fine.

But things can go off the rails a little bit as soon as you start dipping into that bench more than you have to, especially we've seen what great defenses can do to a Peyton Pritchard here, to the Luke Cornett minutes there, to Sam Hauser, if you have to stretch him too far. You don't want to have to dip into those things

if you don't have to. I like when Pay and Pritcher takes a step back. I don't like when the step back is 26 feet. No. Right? Like, if he's stepping back from a long two and two or three, all right, cool. But sometimes it's like, bro, you're taking these shots a little bit too far. Just sometimes.

Again, he's a nitpicks, you know. I think he's been way better about getting to the basket, you know, getting a guy on a hip, turn around, fade away from nine feet because the floor is so freaking spread. It's just him and the guy that's guarding. down there. You know, some people like, oh, Sam Hauser, you think he's going to do this to the play? I think he's going to do fine

in the playoffs. I just think it's a matter of these guys being locked in, honestly. And Drew and Porzing is playing a reasonable amount of minutes and games in the playoffs. They will be able to get through this thing. We were talking about this little before we came on, but I think

Drew Holiday might have the best career in NBA history, if only because right now he basically has to really pop in like seven regular season games and just like that we have the knowledge that he can turn it on in a playoff series but sometimes he doesn't offensively and that's fine too because team just need him they need exactly what he brings it's like if toby harris would have signed three 140 million dollar contracts right where whenever anything goes wrong nobody gives a shit nobody's asking drew holiday to answer any questions yet he's getting paid 35 40 million every single time

out. It's amazing. I feel like Drew Hallad I had to answer some questions in Milwaukee sometimes. I'm not saying he was getting, look. It was Chris Middleton and Janus. There's different levels of scrutiny based on stardom, based on market, all of these things like Drew Holliday. Drew does get to skate a little bit. And I will say, while he skates, has the complete respect of all of his peers who talk glowingly

about him at all times. Seems like a great guy can be a really good high impact player. also has some real playoff stinkers on his resume. Alton Man of the Year candidate for sure. There you go. Even though he doesn't play in the NFL. It's the Twyman Stokes Award in the NBA. The Twyman Stokes Award.

Media Darling, so you know he's always going to get great press. But by all accounts, it's deserved. Like the guy is a great guy, great teammate. You know, plays his at, plays hard as hell. Never like, you know what I mean, hot dog in it. I get it. But it's just like, who he has made his accountant. your boy is proud.

This is what defense gets you. Bies you a lot of goodwill, you know? That's right. And also the timing of being a free beer, it doesn't. That's true. The double standard towards Biggs. It's ridiculous. Yeah, he's made a lot of money himself.

And unfortunately, he's going to be making a lot more for the next three years for the, for the Timberwolves. Last team I have on the board here and then we can maybe get into some wild cards, obviously, the Cleveland Cavaliers. I have down the Celtics because the Cavs have

virtually acquitted themselves against every other opponent. they're going to face in the Eastern Conference. Yeah. As we're talking about them, 15 game winning streak, just out of nowhere, just as if like they have anything left to prove, just rallying off, have not lost since February 5th, have lost one game since January 27th. We're talking about almost two months here.

It's insane. It's fucking nuts. Yeah. I think, look, the Celtics jumping out on them 25 to 3. I think is indicative of something. I think that Celtics are a stronger team. The matchup is just tough. But, you know, you just wonder if by the time they faced the Celtics...

Didn't the Cavs win that game? They won the game. Okay. They won the game. But, like, going down 25-3, that's a bad look. Yeah, I certainly. What I'm saying, and the other win that they got was a major comeback as well. Yes.

I'm wondering if, because they wouldn't play the Celtics until the conference finals, if they could just get so much confidence between, you know, Evan Mobley, and Darius Garland, specifically those two guys, that by the time they get the Celtics matchup, it's like, you know what, we can do this against anybody, and they're not afraid to seize the moment. I think that could be a saving grace, but right now I just, I don't see it for them.

But I understand people that are enthusiastic. I'm way more convinced of it now, obviously, than I was back in January or December when they had the same winning percentage, you know? Right. I think the Celtics matchup is always going to loom large for them. I think you're right about that, Justin. And to me, it's the Celtics. It's also just the more, the broader idea of executing against length.

Because you're right, they've been great, a buzzsaw against basically everybody. If you want to pick out the few losses on their resume, there are quite few, right? It is teams like Boston. It is a couple, it's games against the Hawks who have a lot of defensive length on the perimeter. It's games against the rockets who have the same thing, a lot of pressure, a lot of disruptive ability. It seems they can really get into you out there. That said, they've been an elite offense. against elite defenses in general.

They've been in elite offense, the best in the league, against top 10 teams overall. It's really hard to pick apart what they're doing right now. I think to the extent that there is anything, it is that. Can you run your stuff through

these big, long, flexible opponents? And that is going to come down to. I'm really glad you identified those two guys, Wazz. It's Darius Garland, who's been creating out of crowd so much better this season in part because he's been healthier.

Donovan Mitchell has had a great year, but he's going to have to go out and prove that he can do that on a really consistent basis. Evan Mowley, able to facilitate is going to help. I think having even more shooting than they had last year is going to help. They have a lot of weapons. It's going to come down to that can they get the ball to the right places against those defenses that really know how to muck things up. But I love about

what the Cavs have right now, especially after bringing in DeAndre Hunter. And he's just like a barrel-chested big old boy who I think is going to help them, especially if they need to size down against a team like the Celtics. They've basically given themselves the absolute best possible chance in order to win that Celtics matchup. And I would still, if you were to ask me to pick one or the other, still pick the Celtics because they're just on another level. But they basically work the odds so that like if you were to look at like the actual math, the percentage of it, the calves might have an equal chance or maybe a better chance. But I just like the Celtics like high end their ceiling better than that. And that's why I would pick the Celtics.

But it's almost like the logical pick to pick the calves because they have everything you want. And it's in part to jump on some of the opportunities that the Celtics provide. Because as much as I agree with was, I think like going down to start with was like, oh, that's the type of haymaker. I wonder that they could recover from in a playoff series. The Celtics also had those lows where like, they'll go up 20, but then they'll be down 10 all of a sudden at the start of the third quarter because they're just so over-reliant on the variance. I think the calves have gotten to the point where they can jump on that in a way that they probably weren't before. And so I like their chances, but I still wouldn't pick them, is what I would say. I think we'll have to wait

and see. I want to get a little closer and certainly see how those teams are in playoff form. if they do find a way to face off in the bracket. But what they have done to me is eradicate a lot of the other Eastern Conference competition, right? It very much feels like a Celtics or Cavs conversation and not. Tough month for the Knicks. You know, although McHale Bridges certainly had his moment last night. Justin, were you at that game? I wasn't, unfortunately.

I was cram in Nuggets tape with you guys. Cramming Nuggets tape missing maybe the game of the season with like 50 lead changes in a game winning three from Mikhail Bridges to beat a game winning layup from Denny Avdia that you could have been there to see in person. It's tough. All the benchmarks that I look for in basketball game. Deni Obia close competition. I just, man, the fact that they're like relying on kickouts to Miles Bridges and some of those overtime possessions just speaks to like they just don't have much of a room for error, man. They just like not having Bruns in there just means so much. And like, they just don't have. It just feels like they're on a different level, even though earlier in the season,

they would be right there with the calves. So credit to the calves for what they've built and what they've kind of accomplished this regular season. 10 losses. Like we talk about like the historic point differential for the thunder. The calves have 10. This is insane. Yeah.

It's crazy. It's the greatest regular season. They're about to break the 09 Cavs record for greatest cabs regular season ever. That's awesome. First real team that you could say like, all right, this is real since LeBron. Like, so in 20, like, and before LeBron, was it probably like Larry Nance and Mark Price? You know, like Craig Elo? Like, when's the last time they had a serious team?

But, you know, like, they made the second round of the playoffs a year ago. Nobody thought they could go to the finals, though, Rob. I think we have different definitions of seriousness. If you make to the second round, I think you're a serious team, if not a charity in the mix. A championship worthy team. Like, did we think they were as good as Denver and Dallas and. and the wolves and the Celtics last year. No.

No. Probably one of the weakest of the teams to make it to the second round, but they made it. And now they're in a position to do even more. And I do think having that experience helps, right? Like being through those fights, especially, I mean, that rock fight against the magic.

That kind of stuff brings something out of you. Oh, my God. I forgot about that series. That took years off of all of our lives. That was 90s heat knicks level, brickery. Woo. Well, speaking, of things that we'd like to forget.

Let's get to some of the take forgiveness here. So Rob, explain this to us. There's this idea of email forgiveness, email debt forgiveness. Email debt forgiveness day for those who aren't familiar. There's that one email that's been sitting in your inbox that you forgot to respond to. I think I have some of those right this second actually that I need to get to after this podcast. You know, it doesn't matter how long it's been on email debt forgiveness day. Even if it was five years ago, you can respond to it.

no questions asked. You know, we're just going to, we're going to apologize implicitly by sending it on the day. But ultimately, we're here to write wrongs. And I thought, you know, we could do that with some of our previous takes, you know. This is a judgment-free space for us to voice our feelings, to be there for each other as we revisit some of our worst takes of this season or in my case, potentially even longer than that. I just think there's some things we have to account for, not just to each other, but within ourselves. we listen but we don't judge

is what we're doing we are going to attempt to do that will we do it successfully it remains to be seen we're basically just doing TikTok SponCon here at this point are we is that a TikTok thing

you gotta put some dope music behind my shit though you guys don't know this no what are you talking about you listen but you don't judge and you just say things that you know you're in a safe space you could talk about your partner, for instance,

about something that they do that upsets you. Interesting. And because you've created a safe space, your partner's not going to make your life miserable for the next five days. That's right. Yeah, that's kind of the bit. Totally not speaking from experience.

Tell them you slept on someone and then it gets haywire. What's the kids are up to these days? Not us ethically non-monogamous. We don't actually have to get into that. It's all on board. Um, my take forgiveness, to be honest, it's to two people. It's one to Justin Verrier. Oh.

But most importantly, it's to Victor Wembeyanama, or as my brother likes to call him, Wembeiana. Um, not just your brother, a disturbing amount of NBA broadcasters cannot get Victor Webonyama's name right. Um, we, I definitely scoffed at the idea that these guys would challenge for a plan. that Wembe would be the kind of guy that's averaging damn there, 25, 26 points a game and dominating on the defensive end. It's like, all right, it's the freaking lottery team, the team that stunk up the joint last year, Harry Barnes, Chris Paul, like, what are we doing?

A rookie? Like, why is this going to be so much better? And I'll be damned if it wasn't, man. Like, these guys, I think, showed a level before the injury or the blood clot, whatever, the ailment, whatever we're calling what happened to Wembe. they're just a way more serious outfit and way further along on the timeline

than I gave them credit for being somehow I underrated Victor Wemianama again and I would like to apologize for that will I underrate them again next year probably but I still have to say man what they showed I was thoroughly impressed by we appreciate that

unfortunately it looks like I will still be losing this bet Well, luckily, I've already primed the mustache. Spiritually, you won. I think so. Yeah. I mean, to be frank, if Victor Webbenyama had finished out the season, probably the defensive player of the year, probably first team all NBA,

the spurs, I would think, are at least in the mix of the playing if they don't make it. That would be an incredible result, as was said, for the roster that they have, for the state that that team is in, that certainly above and beyond what I expected. You know, I'm always a little slower coming around on the younger guys, too.

and I want to see them prove some things. I don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt too quickly, especially when you're playing for lottery teams that don't have a lot to compete for out of the gate. And they're still trying to bring pieces into rebuild and all of that stuff. Of course. What Webin Yama and the Spurs did this season, I thought was incredibly impressive.

I thought the level of competition clearly stepped up, the level of sophistication stepped up. They look like a more professional outfit, which is something quite impressive to say about a team that's that young. Well, listen, we on the right side of history forgive you guys. So don't worry about it. That sounds like judgment. No, no.

Listen, but we don't. Are you guys limiting your take forgivenesses to this season? Or are you going beyond that? We're going beyond that because mine is a longer running. I like that. A longer running thing that I need to ask forgiveness for. I think I know where we're going here. Malik Beasley?

Yeah. I am sorry. I'm sorry to Malik Beasley. You know, for a long time, I tried to talk myself into Malik Beasley as a nugget, as a Timberwolf, only to see him get picked on defensively, played off the floor. The sterling percentages in the regular season didn't quite pan out. And everything I heard, I will say, including for people who worked for those teams, was, you know what? Like, you can't really trust his game to hold up in that way. I was wrong.

They were wrong. Malik Beasley is good. the leader in the league and made threes this season he has been absolutely steadfast for one of the better teams in the league in the Pistons which that in itself

is a crazy sentence to say out loud but shout out to Malik Beasley he's having a real winning impact for a team that actually matters something that I did not know would happen well here's the thing I almost want to like

write off your take forgiveness because I don't think you are necessarily wrong about Beasley because I don't think I fundamentally think about him as a different player I just think that when he's shooting at this level and he's this dependable, then he is a good player.

It just so happens that that happens practically every other year. And you just don't know which of the good Beasley is going to show it from. The Pistons have gotten the absolute best. It's like the odd year spurs championships. That's right. But I think that dependability is a skill and has been such a big part of what has been holding him back. And so it's like when you see players who are like that, who have a more mercurial game, a little bit of come and go,

it's very tempting for people in our position to say, oh, they're never going to be wholly reliable. I'm not saying Malik Beasley is a perfect player. He's not. He yo-yo's in and out of the starting lineup for a reason. You know, like I think he's good in both capacities for the Pistons. But ultimately, he is dependable. He feels dependable in a way that I think transcends the sort of every other year

or some games, but not others thing, that he and a lot of other role players go through. He is, I think he has put himself into a slightly different class of player than he's ever been before. And for that, I simply, given the number of shots I have taken at him over the years, have to apologize. So there's the way that he's playing,

and there's the knock-on effect on a guy's development on his way to being like a bona fide all-star and Cade Cunningham where it's like playing with a dude that is producing that way and therefore attracting that level of attention from the defense opens his game up that just wasn't open before when he was playing with Killian Hayes and all these other cats.

And so I think that's an important part, too, just like the Cade of it all. Totally. This guy has completely shown himself to be everything folks thought he was, and he seems to be on his way to more. I'm glad you brought up the Pistons, though, because they're on my list here, if only because I kind of discredited their chances

of getting up to the sixth seed. And practically, honestly, they might even have an outside shot of getting into the four at this point. They're pretty much neck and neck with the box and the Pacers after one of the most wild late season runs I can remember in recent history, especially considering last year this was by far the worst team in NBA history. Now all of a sudden just looks reborn with like not only good, like they're playing

well, but they have such a clear identity of who they are and how they all fit together in a way that's just like an awesome watch. So first of all, they're 12 and 3 over the past 15. It's second in the NBA right now. And while I did not get to see the Knicks last night, I did see the Pistons a couple days ago. And I think they have everything that you would ever want in like a league pass sort of team the teams that like we're all gravitating toward maybe not like the the star studded sort of teams and i have this list down here where one the irrational confidence guy which tim hardaway junior in a dallas setting just seemed just like kind of a bonehead that like you always had to tolerate here he just like he just like pops and so he'll like he'll dribble for 14 seconds jack up a three they get a rebound and he kicks

it back out to him and then he shoots it right again and he makes it And it seems like it's all part of the plan because nobody's getting mad at him for doing that. If anything, they're encouraging him to be his most irrational self. And so I love him. They got the crazy guys, which by the, they have a bountiful of just guys who are ready to fight. Isaiah Stewart, obviously, first and foremost, they're Ron Holland basically as the number one backup just ready to jump in whenever that happens. Hell yeah. You got the Uber prospect, the Assar Thompson, just the way he's just blankets guys, like right off the jump from a game is in like amazing to watch and just being able to explore the depths of his game finally after he had the blood clot scare earlier this season.

And then you just have the star coming into his own kind of hitting the next level. I wouldn't say this is like the breakthrough top of the billboard sort of album for Cade Cunningham, but this is the album before the big album. And it's been fun to watch like as he's slowly. solidified himself as an all-star, but then getting to the point where he's taking the next step. Well, the album before the album is obviously our favorites. It's the one where the real ones know. And we've been

out here watching Kate Cunningham. I think wanting to see him cross certain thresholds, but you're right, he's been acing every test this season. He looks so comfortable orchestrating, putting all these guys in the right spaces. I'm also glad you brought up beef stew because I haven't really sussed out what the sixth man

of the year race looks like, and maybe it's all cavaliers, frankly. Maybe it's just like DeAndre Hunter or tie Jerome and that's kind of the end of discussion. Isaiah Stewart has kind of a sneaky case as one of the best reserves in basketball right now, mostly because of his impact on defense and the way he protects the rim and what he's bringing to the table in that regard. He has stepped out from being like undersized but hustle big who you admire but might not actually be making that big of an impact to he just contributes to winning basketball on

a nightly basis for the pistons. And it's funny how many like players on their team have slid into that place now, now that they have a more balanced roster. It's just everything makes more sense for Detroit. Yeah, my guy Danny Morang in Portland was showing me the second spectrum rim protection stats for Isaiah Stewart. And it's like you have the clear cut top level where it's, you know, Wemby, chat, all the names you'd expect.

And then right underneath that is beef stew. He's like one of the best rim protectors all of a sudden in the NBA. Plus he has like the versatility offensively to step out to three. Like, yes, he fights a ton of guys and is probably going to miss half of the playoffs because he's trying to knock out DeAndre Hunter or someone, but when he plays, he's been awesome. I also like how Cade Cunningham,

like the, like the feciness is almost rubbing off on him to where like he's outside of the fray. He's trying to be the stoicism guy. Yeah, he's the guy you have to protect. Like he's the one that like all the offensive linemen are jumping to get into the in the scrum. Yeah.

Exactly. All the goons have to protect. But he has a little shit to his game too. Like not only just like his game, but also his personality. At one point in the Blazers game, like the ref called him for a bad fall. So he just like pointed at him and got a tech as a result of that. It was kind of like if you have ever seen Zodiac and you see Jake Jelenhall at the end of the movie just go and stare at the guy he thinks did it. It kind of had that vibe to him.

I appreciate it. I feel like we need some kind of. of exception around the technicals. Like I think gesturing like non-obscene division, it should all be allowed. Any pointing, any gesticulating, any dancing, any exaggerated movements or motions, I think should be fair game. Like, come on. So outside of flipping the bird or like, you know, one of these.

Sure. Well, clearly the crotch shop is beyond the pale by NBA standards. I love the crotch shop. I think we need to get that back. I think we need to legislate the crotch shop back into the game. You know, it's just, right. It was, you know, you never know. 20, 25.

Lots of, lots of things are back on the table. Maybe the crotch shop can make a comeback. I want coordinated celebrations like they do in the NBA. Like, you throw the football up and then it explodes and you all fall over. I want that after like a cool dunk. Absolutely. What are we doing? Yeah.

All right. Let's wrap it there. I will not be here on Monday. You guys have something special. Special. us heard the schedule that we plotted out two weeks ago. You know what? I don't think we're going to be drafting white American players,

but who's to say for certain? No draft, but I'm sure we'll come up with something mind-blowingly creative. I promise you that. We actually have something good for this one. It will not be a draft. It will not be a mailbag, as is Wozanai's tradition. Oh, my God.

We actually do have a plan. We have a mailbag. We have ideas. We're ideas, men. Yeah. Okay. I will say you guys have really stepped it up in this second half. You're like the Pistons when it comes to segments for this podcast. Thank you. You're on another level these days. So we appreciate that. These days, that's an incredible compliment, Justin. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. These guys will be back with you on Monday. They will talk to you them.