The Ringer NBA Show - Is the Ja Morant Era Coming to a Close in Memphis? Plus, Which Recent Trends Are March Mirages? | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Justin, Rob, and Wos are back to discuss the Grizzlies firing Taylor Jenkins. Then they discuss some March trends and decide whether the trends are real or a March mirage. They talk about the Bulls (27:27), Austin Reaves and the Lakers (45:15), and the Timberwolves' resurgence (53:40). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Ben Cruz Social: Kiera Givens The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me as always, Rob Mahoney, Big Was. The boys are back in town. First full squad pod since what? Like a week? Week plus, maybe? Yeah, a week plus. Yeah, you say always, we're just ships in the night out here.

I feel like I haven't seen both of you in the same space in way too long. I can feel as synergizing as we speak. You know, I feel more connected to the two of you than ever. We're like the calves out there. You know, we've already clinched the playoffs. We know we're going to be a one season, the big pod race, the big pod wars. So we're just getting everybody a little bit of rest before the big guns start to kick in. I'll take that.

If you say so. Was, good to see you. As always. As always. I'm happy to be on with you guys, man. But like the thing is for me, like, even when I'm not potting with you guys, your takes or potential takes are always circling around my brain as, I consume the NBA. So it's like you guys have never left my side, to be honest with you.

That's very heartwarming. I mean, I take it in the same way, except to say that there's a miniature Justin and a miniature was in my head. And at any given point in time, I am doing take battle with the two of you, trading takes, doing imaginary pods. I'm just running like billions of pod scenarios in my brain at all times. And now we get to live one of them. And it's been too long.

I do find it hard listening to you guys on other podcasts, because when you say things. I just want to debate you. I don't care about the other person's point. I just want to like kneel you guys for saying something that I disagree with. No, just me? The lines are open anytime, Justin. You can just angrily call

us if the mood ever strikes you. I might just do that for the Patreon, perhaps. Perhaps. Okay. We're going to get into today's podcast. In the back half, we're going to go through some potential March mirages, which are teams that have done well in March, we'll kind of

determine whether or not those recent results have legs beyond just this March period of basketball, which, let's be honest, not the best in the NBA. But we'll get into that. But first, we got to talk about the Memphis Grizzlies, who unfortunately are not whole like us on this podcast because they have fired Taylor Jenkins, the coach for the past six years, 44 and 29 record this season, the fifth seed in the difficult as all hell Western conference. Rob, what was your first reaction to this. Were you shocked as I think most people? Yeah, I think just the timing. The why now question, single digit games remaining in the regular season,

why would this be the time that you would fire your head coach, unless something happening was an abject disaster. I don't think anything with the Grizzlies, sluggish as they've been of late, losing to good teams left and right, all those things are real problems. Taylor Jenkins doesn't have a perfect coaching track record by any means, but he's a good coach.

And I don't know what you accomplish, frankly, making this move at this time. I just don't really see the upside of it. So the two coach firings that come to mind are Eme Adoka, which was right before the season, which was like, what the hell? Then we found out there was some like, you know, workplace. Yes.

Controversy. Okay. Like, this is just off of the beaten path of why coaches tend to get fired. Reasons outside of basketball. Yes. And then there's the Adrian Griffin who got fired with the even. higher winning percentage, his first season as coach, and then you look into it and it's like,

well, he's lost the confidence of literally, man, one through 15. Yeah. And so he had to go. So usually it's like these basically extraordinary circumstances that have to happen for a coach to get fired mid-season on the case of he don't like right before a season is starting, you know. And so I'm like, all right, so like something like that is going to come out about Taylor Jenkins. And then I read the athletic piece and I read other stuff and it's just like, yeah, they just don't like the direction the team is going to season.

Like what? Like how can firing this guy be an improvement for this team this season specifically? Yes. I just can't think of another example in recent history where a successful team. with about a couple weeks left in the season before they are going to make the playoffs fired their coach. It happens to bad teams all the time around this time

just so they can get a leg up on the coaching search over some of these other teams that are going to be in the mix there. But this is a complete outlier. And I think you're right, was it sounds like based on what happened last off season, which they basically changed a lot of the assistant coaches on Jenkins staff,

this seemed to be something brewing for a while. And if there's a takeaway from the past, what, six months of transactions that we've seen, not just being first and foremost. To me, this just speaks to the idea that, like, these are humans making these decisions and humans make irrational choices sometimes based on human impulses. This is quite an irrational one, though, because it is the kind of move that either should have been made in the offseason, which I think a lot of people were eyeing, right? If the Grizzlies

had a disappointing run in any stretch of the imagination, Taylor Jenkins had a long run here, a long tenure as the coach of this team. If they didn't see movement, he could absolutely be out of a job come summertime. And so it was like, it was either, either should have been made then after the run in the offseason or like six weeks ago. But now there's, we're in the middle ground. We're in no man's land where you don't have any developmental opportunities. You don't have really a chance to dramatically reshape this offense in a way that it seems

like maybe part of the objective here, at least if you want to factor in J. John Morant's comfort level or Zach Edie's comfort level or some of the stakeholders on the court for this team and kind of what they're best suited to. running a little more pick and roll. Sure, I understand the argument and the merits. That said, overhauling the coaching staff and changing the offense seemed like a decision that was not Taylor Jenkins and Taylor Jenkins alone. So I really don't know what we're accomplishing or who's accomplishing it,

which is the Memphis Grizzlies in 2025, unfortunately. Taylor Jenkins didn't fire his entire staff last offseason. It was the GM, Zach Kleiman. Okay? And, you know, what tends to happen is, especially in our industry. Nobody ever wants to kill the freaking GM unless he doesn't get 70 draft picks,

of course, because that's the only stupid thing a GM could ever do, according to people in our freaking industry. But, like, bro, you fire this guy's entire staff. You basically force them to implement a new offense, which I'm not mad at. Like, to be honest, like,

it's not that hard to go back to doing what Jai likes the most and doing something new and having your defense be more multiple, more dynamic, I think is a cool idea. But you already fired one of the guys you hired this summer. That's a fuck up. On the GM's part, like the LaRoche dude, like, you don't fucked up with that. And now you're expecting people to think this is a stroke of brilliance or a good idea

that nine games before the playoffs start, you get rid of the head guy and throw the team in complete disarray? That's insane to me. People should be asking Zach climbing some freaking questions right now. Well, Rob, where do you net on this whole offensive thing? Because it does feel like this is the impetus, perhaps for Jenkins's

ultimate firing, dating back to last off season. They clearly have democratized the offense in ways that have been beneficial to the team and also to Jaron Jackson in particular. But it sounds like Jai is a little bit myth that he's not as getting him any as many ball screens. He's probably being off the ball a little bit too much and it's

easier to probably face guard him and take him out. Do you think, like, the offense of one, the change has been a good thing, and do you think they needed to do anything differently from here? I do think it had been a healthy start. The problem is, is it didn't have a chance to, like, fully manifest. You're only a couple months into a radical, radical change. Just to sort of explicate this a little bit, if you haven't been keeping up with Memphis Grizzly's basketball this season, they went from a John Morant heavy driven offense when

he was on the floor in seasons past, very pick and rick and really. very straight line driving kick kind of style into something much more democratic where everyone is handling the ball where John Morant, one of the most dynamic pick and roll players in the league is suddenly off in the corner, playing the wing, playing a totally different role, and not coincidentally, in and out of the lineup constantly, as he has been for the period of his career in which he hasn't been suspended for ridiculous behavior off the court. So I think it is a means to survive, right, when you have John Morant as one of your core players. You need to be able to score without him. You need a system that can make you less reliant on jaw doing jaw things all the

time, but you didn't really give yourself a chance for that offense to actually take hold. And so what resulted is, every time the grizzlies played an actually good defense, the turnover's ramped up, the offense fell apart. These guys aren't yet comfortable with the full extent of what they're being asked to do because they've been doing something else for the last several years. So you either needed to commit to the thing or not to commit to the thing. But these half measures where, oh, Now we're going to do some of this Democratic offense, but also we're going to incorporate the job pick and rolls. I don't know where you're going with that. I don't know what that's accomplishing.

I don't know that that's getting you any closer to the elite teams in the league. And we should say the Grizzies have not beaten a good Western Conference team in quite some time. It's been it's been tough sledding, I will say, for the last several months since December 20th. They have two wins against top eight teams in the West, two, both against the Minnesota Timberwolves. everything else has been a train wreck anytime they meet elite competition and does this change any of that? I can't see how.

Just some quotes out of the press conference that Climbing gave on Saturday. The decision was quote unquote, mine and mine alone. Quote, I came to the conclusion this was in the best interest of the team and urgency is a core principle of ours. so I decided to go on with the move.

The Memphis Grizzlies apparently are in an urgent. What does that even mean? What urgency is a core principle? Yeah, they're in a championship or bus, I guess, mindset. Even though these guys, have these guys made it out the second round before? I don't think so. Not this version of the team, no. I think that's the problem is that they were foretold to be in line for big things,

and it just never happened. And I think we on this podcast could be like, oh, injuries. or Josh is not being there because of all the gun stuff. But I think over time, if you're expecting to be at the top of the West and you're not, I think it just builds tension over time. And Jenkins is the easiest person to move at this point. Well, let's talk about the Jenkins part of this because it's ridiculous timing, but the murmurs were there for a reason.

And I think the murmurs with Jenkins specifically come around a couple of things. One, yeah, clearly this big offensive shift and not everyone is happy, whether you want to put blame for that at his feet or not. I think, frankly, would be a little bit ridiculous, given all the circumstantial factors we've talked about. But also, even when he has had full control of this team, I find that he can be a little too generous with his rotation. At some point, you just have to play Jaron Jackson, Jr., like 40 minutes and not play.

Too many guys. The Memphis Grizzlies have been burdened by too many guys for a long time. An abundance of guys. An abundance of guys. And it suits Taylor Jenkins's coaching style to indulge that and to want to, play your ninth and 10th and sometimes 11th guys in the rotation at the expense of really good all all league all NBA all star level players or near all star level players. I just think at a certain point that's a bad idea. And factoring into that in the playoffs we've seen, not the most creative coach in terms of evolving beyond his original game plan. Like the grizzlies go in with an

idea of what they want to execute. They start executing it. Maybe they win a game or two. Things change they're just still executing the initial game plan, still running their stuff, still running into the wall over and over and over in a way that, yeah, for a young up-and-coming team that's trying to move further and further in the playoffs, presents a little bit of a problem.

And look, I'm not going to sit up here and pretend that Taylor Jenkins is the next Phil Jackson or anything like that. To be quite honest and fair, things that I've heard about Taylor Jenkins and Rob said, as Rob said, his approach to the Grizzlies people would say that

they kind of walk all over the guy. That's what would be said. Like he basically didn't implement any level of control or hierarchy or the kind of things that the coaches that have a certain level of gravitas and respect

are able to do selling of a vision, that kind of thing. Not to say that they were aimless, but like you don't see the Grizzlies as this like rigid is like tough, discipline type of team. That's not been their reputation.

They're not exactly fighting everyone like the Detroit Pistons, but like they're not choir boys, as we've seen time again. Yeah. And, and, and, you know, and again, I think that's been the critique of his that I've heard from people that have been around the team. And who knows, maybe this guy from Finland

that's now the interim coach. Tuamus Isolo, we should say, is now the head coach of the Memphis. Tuamus Isolo, the new interim head coach of the Memphis Grizzlies, a quite creative and accomplished offensive coach in his own right. In France. In France. In a different circumstance, you could see a team like the Grizzlies taking a chance on with an open coaching vacancy.

Under these circumstances, you're putting a lot on him. Especially when he kind of, like, I would say the reporting out of Memphis has been much more anchored with Noah LaRoche as far as the person who sort of engineered the Grizzlies offense to be in the form that it is now. It's very reminiscent of what he ran previously as a D3 coach, if I remember correctly. But Isolo was also kind of involved in spicing up the offense,

also involved and had a hand in some of the things that got the Grizzlies here in the first place. And so the fact that one of those guys is fired, you're gone. And the other guy is now your head coach is a wild turn of events for this coach and staff. So let me get to. straight, y'all. How the Memphis Grizzlies decided they wanted to

revamp and revolutionize what they were doing. They got a D3 guy. Yeah. And a guy from France. This is how you get outside the box thinkers was. Just pointing that out to folks. Listen, the finish are bold, man. The finish

are doing some stuff. You don't know about what the fish got going on there. There are no streets, but they're all right. Okay. Well, I think we're kind of circling the big question here is whether or not the Grizzlies had a coaching issue or if they had a Ja Morant issue because this team has succeeded in the regular season without Jaa and had been just fine. But I think we would all agree when Jaa plays around another level and the type of thing that could type of team that could

compete with the top of the West. Unfortunately, Jaa just hasn't been available first because of the suspensions, now because of injuries, the big old one last year. And this year, there's been about 30 different things that have kept him off the court here. And so did Jenkins ultimately just be the, was he the fall guy because Jha isn't playing? And then I think it opens up a bigger question long term, Rob, which is like, what do you do with a guy like that who's so great, but he's just not as available as you need him to be? Well, let me circle back to something you said there, which is that, you know, with Jha healthy and in the lineup, the grizzlies can compete with the top of the West. I think what this firing is drawing out of all of us and out of the circumstances is the question

of, are they? Like, are the grizzlies ready to compete with the top of the West? I think there's I would. There's clearly a vacancy after OKC where any number of teams could fill that void and could be a Western Conference finalist could be a fellow contender. The Grizzlies have shown that at times this season,

but they've also just been so bad in some of these games that matter. It's really hard to believe in them at this state. I think they're just too talented. They're very talented. You have one of the best big threes in the league and then you have all these supplemental guys that come in. Like they lost Brandon Clark the other day

and it doesn't matter because you have Zach Edie just on ice ready to take lobs from John Morant there. And they competed basically. Jodges all of a sudden got healthy enough to play, which was very odd when he played this weekend against the Lakers in their first game post Jenkins firing. Clearly wasn't right because toward the end of that game was like reaching toward his hamstring. But they still like went toe to toe with the Lakers,

a team that I think we all have a high opinion of long term, probably top four in the West at worse. And we're totally in that game. And so I honestly just think like they just need him healthy. But how do you ever get him into that? position because it seems like these nagging things wise just keep adding up over time over and over again. So I, you know, when they got to top of the West, they were like 34 and 15 or something crazy like that. Number two in the West, I had even previous to that had fallen in love with

the, you know, just a pure talent that is available to them, especially with the ancillary guys where there's just no holes in any lineups that they could put out there. I definitely got excited for what they could do. And I think, yeah, the talent remains there for top four, top three, even Western Conference kind of side. I think my problem with the firing is that you guys have not built a foundation over the course of this season to perform at a top three in the West level. I don't care what coach you fire.

Y'all not going to get there in nine games. You just haven't built. the habits, the sort of ideas about who you are as a team over the course of a long season, like, say, a Cleveland, to name a team. Not to say you got to go out of winning a 63 win pace, but I'm just saying, like, what they're doing on a night-to-night basis, feels very consistent, which is just what you don't hear about, what you don't see from Memphis.

And I don't know how this is going to build more, foundational consistency for this group this season. That's why I'm just completely miffed by this. Yeah, it's not a move that brings out or inspires any belief in the team to be able to succeed. Like on the one hand, you're saying, we are more talented than we believe our performances right now, and we should be playing better. Okay, how are we playing? Who is playing?

In what combinations and in what orientations and in what style? And who does that style ultimately suit? because if you're someone like Jared Jackson Jr. who's been cooking in this more democratic offense, how do you feel now about potentially being put back in the box in some points to run more pick and roll, to run a more traditional offense, if that is even the direction of the team. I don't think Isolo wants necessarily to do that

just based off of his previous coaching experience, but that may be what the Grizzlies end up. Yeah, the crazy thing is they haven't been bad offensively. One of the best offensive teams in the league, and the problem has been defensively. Which used to be their issue, by the way. Right. And so changing who is technically in charge of everything, I don't, what's going to actually fundamentally change about the team this year? is why I keep coming back to Jha. It's almost like the tension point for all of this,

because I don't think you go more democratic because you want to appease Jha first and foremost. If anything, this is more leaning into the strengths of some of the other players, the depth behind Jha, and in particular Jaron Jackson, then Jha. And so I have to wonder, because I think Howard Beck even kind of floated the idea earlier this year, just like, he was asked the question, like, oh, what guy off the beaten path, like, could you see being moved? And he mentioned Jha. I think the Grizzlies took offense to that. But like a lot of the things that they're doing would suggest that they are at the very least entertaining this idea that Jha is in all the end all be all. And so I have to start wonder like, is that the other shoe to drop here?

If not this off season, then maybe a year from now that we're basically laying track for Jod to be out. But aren't they by firing Jenkins? Yeah. Aren't they by firing? I'm so confused by the Jahn element of this. And whether there are, are they. pushing in his direction or are they pulling away from it? Why would you trade John, not Desmond Bain?

Because just the job not being available in the same way that Kauai isn't available has just created like a logistical problem. You need your best players playing. If he's not going to play, we've gotten so upset about that. That will just move on for him. Yeah, I mean, I guess I could understand that. Availability is a major component here. obviously, and I think the amount of time that he's missed,

and it's been like so many different injuries. And it's like six different things that have been on an injury port. This season alone, that's crazy and it's problematic. But I don't like trading job, like it just firing your head coach mid-season. But then also on the other hand being like, well, we would trade job. who like basically that means we have to do a hard reset. Like those two things don't seem like they're, they make sense.

Like the in season firing means you believe in the capabilities of this group to achieve in the now. Totally. But yet at the same time, it's like Jaws on the market. So I'm just going to blow this up. Y'all not going to be relevant without John Moran. Let me try to thread the needle here.

I think like, yes, you're right. The coach firing suggests that we have something in-house that we just need to change who is running it in order to bring out the best of it. I think I am wondering more long term if they're trying to, they're kind of shuffling the chairs because the issue is that Jha isn't playing. And for the same reason, they made a very, it almost feels like they made a human decision by getting rid of someone who may not align

with their vision for the franchise. Could they make another human decision by getting rid of Jha, who is the best player on the team? But the practicalities, the tension that builds over him not playing tends to wear on a team over the course of several seasons. I think clearly there are the ceiling-related. reasons for the Grizzlies that we're talking about as far as like why you would conceivably fire a coach at this stage in the season. If you just think there's no way we're going to get

past a certain threshold with Taylor Jenkins as the head coach and anything is better to open the possibilities, okay. I think the other reason for the urgency being a core principle of the Grizzlies organization would be if you think there is a human breaking point

in the near future. If you think this team is close to combusting and this is just like conjecture based on circumstance. If you think that the tensions are high enough, where people are unhappy enough, where if you did go through a playoff run and say a first round out or just losing in any fashion that people like deemed to be unacceptable, then there could be a real cost to that. And so maybe this is an effort to get ahead of those costs. But that's me really going around the bend to try to justify something that just does not make a lot of sense. So I got one more

climbing quote for you guys. He's talking about his coach. What's his coach name again, Rob? trauma Cicelo Cicelo Isolo Isolo Isolo Isolo Isolo

Okay This is This is Climing here Looking forward to What he's able to do With this group There's realistic

Expectations So he's trying to tamp down Like Oh we know we're not going to win the championship This year There's not going to be time To install a bunch of things

This time of year My expectations are clarity of direction And we'll see what we can do, we'll see what we can execute. What in the entire fuck is this guy talking about?

He's saying not my job. You know what? I just stepped into this seat. No, this is the GM saying that. Oh, that was that was Klein. That was Klein. Oh boy.

These press conferences are just kibuki theater. I mean, what are we talking about? To install a bunch of things this time of year. but I want to I want to see my expectations are clarity of direction

and we'll see what we can do we'll see what we can execute that doesn't make that statement doesn't make any sense you can't do shit but I need to see that there's a clear path it's all word salad man all these like these

we have to put something out there to account for a decision that was clearly like personal and like more about like a workplace trying to figure things out. Yeah. Yeah, it feels like this dude just ain't it. And I'm tired of looking at his face. That was it.

I get it. Don't you? Why not just run a couple ball screens for Marines? They ran a few more. Yeah, they ran a few more against the Lakers. I mean, they ran plays for fucking Kendrick Perkins in Oklahoma City. You could run a couple ball screens in the midst of your beautiful offense for one of the most dynamic talents in the league.

Like, I think they'll be. fine. I just think the question you do not want to be asking yourself as March turns into April is what kind of team do we want to be? And now that is the only question in the room for the Grizzlies. Who are you? What do you want to do? Yeah. I don't know the next step though. I think it really is between these half measures versus the big old giant move of making something significant happen with and Jai would be the obvious candidate, I think. So we'll see. The ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fanduel. It's the final stretch of the NBA season and the playoff picture is changing by the minute. Every three-pointer or fourth quarter comeback means that much more. And with live

betting on Fanduel, you can make the playoff picture a little prettier. So whether you're looking to ride with a hot shooter or think a team is due for a run, you can get in on the action until the final buzzer with America's number one sports book. All right. We're looking at Monday's Slate March 31st. I really like the Celtics. Yeah, a team that has one loss in the month of March. I think they're going to close it out here. They're minus five in Memphis and the Celtics are sitting people left and right. But I don't know. Memphis just doesn't seem right to me, even post-coach firing, which we talked about on today's episode of group chat. I just, jaw doesn't seem fully healthy. Doesn't seem like they're quite right. So give me the Celtics.

They've been an absolute buzzsaw minus five in Memphis. Memphis. Lock it in. And however you want to play, now is the perfect time to join. New Fandall customers get started with $200 in bonus bets if your first $5 bet wins. Just visit fandle.com slash ringer MBA to join today. Make every moment more with Fandle, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Must be 21 plus in present in select states or 18 plus in present in D.C. First online real money wager only $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-witrable bonus best, which expires seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply.

See terms at sportsbook. Fiandule.com. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. All right, let's flip to the next part now here. We're going to talk about some better stories that have popped up here in March. We like to call them March Mirages or I like to call them March Mirages. In fact, I have been singing in my head a song about March Mirages as I've been noodling with this brilliant idea that I brought to you guys.

It sounds kind of like a Katie Perry song. Okay. Some sort of like... Which era of Katie? Is like a California girls? What are you thinking? The one where she was making out with girls. Oh, I kissed a girl.

I kissed a girl. Okay. All right. Like OG. Yeah. This is just a march mirage. Oh, as a sample, good enough. Okay.

That's not Katie Perry. That's Miley Cyrus Recking Ball. Yeah. Oh, okay. That was, that's exactly. But a pop banger, nonetheless. I don't disagree. Yeah, I like Wrecking Ball, too.

You put some production under that shit, we got a hit. Marash. Yeah, just get the Tom's going. But basically, it's the teams that have popped here in March. We're going to decide whether or not it's a Mirage, a March Marage. Y'all going to be shocked as he's at the top of this list, by the way. Well, one of the hottest teams in the NBA in the month of March, it's the Chicago Bulls, nine in four.

five. You hear that, Rob? Nine and five. You're Chicago Bulls all of a sudden playing gangbusters without Zach Levine yet again. What is shock? What a surprise that Levine opened the door for some of these other guys to pop. Kobe White just on another level. 29 points.

Averaging in March and then Josh Giddy. Our beloved baby boy, 21 points, 10 rebounds, nine assists, 1.6 steals a game in March. I don't think it's a mirage. I think these guys are good. So when you say this is not a mirage, what do you mean by that exactly? By these guys, do you mean the collective of the Bulls?

Or are you talking about white and giddy individually? Okay. Here's what I think. And this is ultimately what I've always think. I think the Bulls have a radio edit of a serious team. They have the version of an album where they take out all the swears and you put it in Target. Right? Okay.

Because I do think the offense, the vision for the team makes a lot of sense. And it's why they popped originally by adding guys like Caruso and Lanzo, veterans who are a little underrated. And they brought out the best of them by democratizing the offensive system. There's a lot of guys past trouble shoot. Their size. It just flows. There's just like something beautiful about the vision that they've had. They just haven't always had the right players in there.

And to that point, like are they for real? maybe not this season because Mattis Bezellas, a rookie is now part of this core five starting for games. But I think if they get the right guys, if Bezellis comes along, if Giddy plays like this over the course of a full season, I see it. I want to say this up top,

Buzellis rules. And if he had been given a real runway, I think we'd be talking about him as a rookie of the year candidate. I think he's been playing at that level and really, really thriving. He just has that weird, long stepping gate that's so hard. hard to time out and so makes him so hard to keep in front of you. I've been really impressed by

him. Obviously impressed by what Josh Giddy is doing. Obviously blown over by Kobe White being like a 30 point score. I mean, impressed by Giddy but not blown over. I find that curious. I don't. Dude. I don't think, was, let me put this to you. Does this month change how you feel about Josh Giddy or the way you look at Josh Giddy as a player. A little bit. It does. Like, Josh Giddy is capable of being an additive player to a real basketball team. That feels like something that I didn't believe specifically coming out of the playoffs last year, where the guy was a freaking disaster.

Let's call it what it is. However, the listeners got to take March basketball in its proper context, which is. is what? The bad teams are angling for a race to the bottom. Yep. The good teams are sick of the regular season and want to get to the playoffs already. And so that's the landscape that Josh Giddy

has his best stretch in the history of his life. Yeah. Josh Giddy in a contract year, we should say. I think that context needs to matter. And I think, you know, I think the Jalen Green March run of last year needs to be instructive here.

Where it's like, yeah, like, he's definitely showing something that we've never seen him do on any consistent level before. Okay, we like that. We're happy about that. And I was especially higher on Jalen Green.

I didn't think he was going to make an all-star team, but I was like, hey, man, he's building on something serious here. And I think you can say the same thing for Josh Kitty, but like, do I think this is who Josh Kitty is now? No. I don't. I think the counter to that would be that he's been playing around this level,

certainly not at March level for practically half a season at this point. And I do think the shooting is the one thing that stood out. And I do wonder if that's more closer to who he is as a player, considering that he's still what? I think he's 20, 22 years old. He's actually, I believe, around the age of a lot of the older rookies that came into this draft, like Dalton Connect is older than this guy. there's a bunch of them

but if he could shoot at this level so he's at 38% for the entire season you just see if he's hitting shots how much the rest of the additive stuff that he does it just opens up for him and the team he's playing the best basketball of his career

full stop like no explanation necessary he's looked better and I think overall this role with the bulls just suits him better than the one he was being asked to play with the thunder right like being a strictly connective player and trying to find the gaps in the creases in the offense that it's being driven by somebody else is tough. It's really tough if you can't shoot in particular. And so having him and Kobe

White able to play off each other and in the Democratic style you were talking about Justin, where the Bulls run a lot of pick and roll into pick and roll into pick and roll. It's just one action flowing into the next, the past triple shoot stuff that you alluded to. All that fits how Josh Giddy plays really, really well. And there isn't so much happening that's better than him to marginalize him off to the side. And so then his playmaking gets to sing. Then the fact that I would say he's been more assertive in attacking the basket and driving this year than we've ever seen from him before. That's a meaningful change. The shooting, I just don't know whether to believe if it's real or not, it still feels pretty disproportionate to the guy that he's been.

And maybe that's just a young player getting better. I would love to see it. I think overall what the Bulls where I'm at is I give Josh Giddy a ton of credit for driving an offense that is winning games and participating in that at a super high level. and being the best version of the player he's been in so many different ways. Like maybe even like an under the radar thing that Josh Giddy is doing right now is he's been so active going after offensive rebounds because teams don't guard him. Like if no one's going to, if no one's going to put a body on you, all of a sudden you can snake into space and you can pick up so many loose balls

and the bulls are just thriving off those kinds of second chances right now. Like they're thriving because he's helping with the second chances. He's helping with the connection on the passes. He's helping push the pace. Like that stuff is all giddy oriented. I just don't know how much it capital M means when the teams that you're beating are the nets and the jazz and the heat,

the Nuggets without Yokish, the Kings without Sabonis, the Pacers without Haliburton. The Lakers wins are what they are, and one of those is just like, as emphatic a statement win against the team as we've seen all season in terms of the 143 or whatever

they hung on the Lakers. Everything else in that 9 and 5, especially the 9, is kind of okay. It is very March basketball. I think you're just illuminating why I've always saw the vision with Giddy to begin with, because he is as big as a power forward. And as long as the shooting is there enough.

And I don't think he needs to hit 38% of his threes for an entire season or shot above his head like he has in March. I think he just needs to be a credible shooter in order to draw enough of attention to open things up. Because the space is why all of these guys are thriving. We're going to talk about Kobe White eventually after we get through this 30-minute monologue on Josh Giddy. but I would say the rebounding is there and it's so wild watching him drive into the teeth of the defense and basically do a U-turn around the basket and then go and try to get a tip with his hands.

He's very crafty and aggressive on the boards in a way that you would want from all of your guys but you're getting that from your point card is obviously huge. I think he's trying more defensively because frankly I think he got shamed even with the Bulls earlier this season. I think they're being better about using him against bigger players because he does have size but he isn't particularly athletic

and also his hands have been better. He's using that kind of reed of the court in order to create steals, which obviously sparks the break for this team. The biggest thing, though, was I think the fact that his usage rate was actually lower this season than when it was with the thunder gives me hope, because I thought he was someone who would have to be on the ball because of the shooting issues in order to make an impact. If anything, the ball is pinging, and he's often the recipient

or the spark that starts that chain reaction. Yeah, it's nice that he's realized that he can't, break people down off the dribble. Like, that's a good... But it's like self-realization, though. It's like a sort of like self-awareness where it's like, you know what? That's not how my skills are best served. And like I said, like I really do think he's become an additive player.

Like it feels obvious that that's the truth in a way that I just, again, didn't see as obvious. Now, in the future, particularly when you talk about a future contract, do you you pay him like a starting wing? Do you? I think he's going to get a lot of money. Well, they're going to give him a lot of money. That's,

that's for damn sure. That's where I'm just like, anything above like 25 a year for Josh Giddy seems nuts. If the Chicago Bulls give him a contract, I'm going to take the over on 25. Totally. Especially because he's hitting the market at the right time. Yeah.

Like to me, he's still a player who raises a lot of questions as far as the construction of your team. He's a firm starter now. So like starters should get 25 million a per. I think he's like on the level of Kobe White. And like White also playing above his head.

I think they're above average starters. I don't know. You don't think Josh Gitt? Oh, that's wild. You think Josh Gitties as good as Kobe White? You really think that? I think he's better because he does more. I think White is an electric score and he has been on another level this year. But I also think he doesn't even...

valuable. His one thing is a more valuable NBA trait. I think it's easier to find his level score because I also think like he comes and goes. He also hasn't put together a full season. He's been able to kind of work his way in the background because Levine takes a lot of the arrows and then he'll pop and he'll be like, Kobe White. Like to that point, like when Levine first got traded, White looked awful. He's just like kicked in of late. And I think it's hard to also like separate the two because I do think they're both a product of the system and the ball movement because both of those, guys do a lot of different things. Like white off the ball is good. And I think the thing that stood out

to me, Rob, is just like white using his athleticism and his speed to almost build this ball handling bag has been just like a revelation. He's looked craftier and craftier, honestly. Like he does use that quick burst to his advantage, but he isn't like an end to end kind of score necessarily. It's a lot of stop and go. It's a lot of changes in direction. It's a lot of manipulation. To the point that, yeah, he put up 29, 5 and 4 this month on 50, 38, 38, 8, 8, 8, 8, splits. That's fucking ridiculous. He also, as far as Mirage caveats go, it's just all

of a sudden, like, getting to the free-thruel line at Janus-like levels. I don't know that that's always going to be the thing. I also think Kobe White, who I do like quite a bit, and I do think is better than Josh Gidey if I were to, like, pick and choose who I would want on my team, hypothetically, I would pick Kobe White.

That said, perfect March player because he's just good enough that you can't look past him. If you, like, gloss over the scouting report, that day and don't really pay attention to how Kobe White plays and just kind of roll into the United Center to play the Bulls, that dude will torch you. And so this is

kind of his time, right? This is his moment where teams are looking ahead on the schedule, they're resting guys, they don't have the best defenders out there. He's been awesome. You guys don't see it. You don't see it. I see him being quite a good player. I don't see him being a 30-point score who's outscoring like Ant and Jason Tatum and Katie

and Kate Cunningham. No. He's a good player. Really good. Here's, I think, the ultimate question is if the bulls bring this construction back, this loose idea of their team. Don't do it. Well, don't do it. This is the question. Is white, giddy, bezellis, draft pick, and then go from there. Is that a team that could do anything more than being a perennial play in?

Because they are kind of falling. I'm not allowed to talk about Portland anymore. No. There's a hard. We got so mad about that. And what's funny is Rob and I came away from that podcast being like, man, we actually had a lot more material on the Blazers that we could have talked about. It's true. We're not talking about Portland.

But I'm only using them as an example like they played above their heads. But now they've gotten themselves in the position where they can't draft a star most likely unless they get lottery luck. Bull's kind of in a similar situation where they're down in the lottery odds. Like what's the path now, was you see anything with this? It's zealous becoming an all star. That's the pathway because we know. Do you think he has that potential? I mean, I have not been convinced of that.

I'm loving what I'm seeing. I just think he's like bigger than I really understood that he was. And that, like, combined with his skill has been really cool to watch. I just know Josh Gideon and Kobe White aren't all-stars. Like teams that like are out of the playing mix all the time, like, where you could permanently say that they have an all-star on there. True. Like, and so I don't see that here.

and unless it's a guy that they're going to draft or is already on the roster, like, like it feels like Kobe White is kind of a known quantity. He's not going to turn into a perennial all-star. I don't believe Josh Giddy is either. And so where is this level of, you know,

high level of production going to come from? I honestly don't know. I think they've improved in one way that is very material to us, which is if the Bulls are going to be a playing team, at least be a fun playing team. At least be a team that has a very charismatic style. JV, I'll give you credit on this.

You were ahead of the curve of the Bulls as a league pass enterprise. Are they good? They're better. They're improving. I completely buy that there is a material level of improvement here for some of the core players involved. Giddy, Kobe White, Bezellis, obviously just getting time to run.

Also getting some like real live bodies in the back end of the. rotation has helped a lot, like Trey Jones before he went down with the foot injury. I have no idea what has happened with Kevin Hurtor's season and why he was a train wreck for the Kings, despite its system that was tailor made to his strengths. Then he shows up in Chicago and all of a sudden. Rejuvenated. Completely rejuvenated. Didn't even get picked in the white boy draft, which is crazy.

But didn't deserve it. At that point of the season, did not deserve it. Worst season by far. Yeah. So, yeah, there's some good things happening here. There's also some March flukery. There's also just like, I just don't believe that the Bulls are in above average. defensive team. I don't believe that this collection of players is that.

So that's where I'm going next year. I do think the tension point, if you will allow me this very right early word that I keep relying on, is Vucevic, who is going to be a free agent after next season. So he has one year left, $21.5 million on the books. It would be nice if they had a real thumper, a rim protector back there, because I do think they need someone to clean things up. But it does feel like their offense needs someone who needs his stretch, who has his stretch, and his ability to move the ball. And I don't know how you get one of those guys in one because those are very valuable players

that don't just come along. Maybe they draft someone in this year's draft. We should peruse Kyle Mann and Dan Chowell's draft guide to find that guy. But that's what they need in order to take the next level in this basic construction. Do they need Patrick Williams

having his worst shooting season of his career in year five? I could have stopped you at Patrick Williams, frankly. $18 million for the next. 30 years on the books. If you have the chance to give that guy a player option, though, you just got to do it. He's shooting 38% on the season. Like, bro, what is that?

Like, you don't do any shot creation whatsoever, bro. How are you shooting 38%? Wow. I think we're all saying similar things, though. I think it's mostly a mirage. I probably believe in the bones of it a little bit more. I think that's fair. You're too high on those bones.

I do think you're right to bring a vouch, though, Justin. That is a bit of a conundrum. The kind of player that he is and what his function within the offense is not so easily replaced. And I say that not just because of the stretch you're talking about, but if you're going to run multiple actions, ball screen after ball screen after ball screen, you need someone who can pop, you need someone who can reset quickly. You need someone who can float to the free throw line and hit a little push shot. He's got all that stuff in a way that if you just get like a rim runner,

you're not going to be able to find it so easily. So bigs like Vooch don't just come along. That said, he also kind of hampers them and handcuffs them in certain ways. Yeah. It's an interesting idea that I'm sure we'll keep talking about on and on again, more than most podcasts would ever deign to. Yeah, I'm sure. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm sure, meaning I'm going to keep bringing it up for the rest of my life. We're trying to find the person that did this. I need a hot dog costume. Well, I'm Wads. I'm actually a little surprised that you aren't as in on the Bulls because I think there was a point where they were playing a five white guys starting lineup. Well, I mean, obviously I'm into that part of it. Do you want to explain the context, Justin? They're just playing five white guys. Well, including Kobe White. Oh, is

that's the bit? That's the joke. I feel like I've seen them play five white guys independently. The bit, the versions of this bit that I have seen involve Kobe White. So, you know, just sort of having a little fun out here in March. Maybe it was Lonzo and I got it. Wow. Wow. It's a difficult. He kind of counts.

Woz said that, not me. Why don't we move along to another white guy who's doing great in March? That's Austin Reeves, who this month 24, 5 and 6, 5 rebound 6 assists, basically, been surprisingly one of the Lakers best players. Was, are you surprised that Reeves not only is doing this. well, but doing this well post-Luca trade when we thought a lot of this offense, a lot of what they were going to do is going to flow through Luca and LeBron. No, I'm not because honestly, I think he can be complimentary when he wants to.

But he has this on-ball capability, this pick and roll capability. Like, you can't go on the screens on him. He'll kill you. You know, he has the 40 million up fake stop and starts in the mid-range. to draw, you know, to do the foul baiting stuff. And he's just a really smart player. He just straight up is. And so I think why Austin Reeves is important, too,

is that LeBron is 40. And Luca, I don't think, like, you know, that Luca from three years ago who could just monopolize possessions, I don't think he's in the good enough shape yet to do that all the time. And I think it is going to be incumbent upon Luca to, like, keep himself, like, like in good, you know, sort of windedness is get off the ball, space out for Austin Reeves at some point.

Let Austin and LeBron work their pick and roll situation. Let Austin working with Jackson Hayes and space around it just so you can take over in the biggest spots. And you haven't had to do it from first from the freaking tip off until, you know, down five minutes left in a close game in a playoff game, right? And so I believe in what Austin is doing. I think this is who he is. I think he's been showing this basically since the Memphis series, man.

Like, this is who this guy is. Yeah, for a dude has only been in the league for a couple of years. Austin Reeves has lived a lot of lives as a basketball player. He's played a lot of different roles in a lot of different kinds of lineups. Man has to do a ton of different things. And this to me is the perfect intersection of sort of flow and opportunity, right? He is playing off of two creators, as you said was, LeBron at his age, Luca with his current state where even when he drives is driving more to draw fouls and to create for other people than to say finish at the rim.

Austin Reeves is the best driver on the team, period. I would say overall in terms of like end-to-end driving and finishing, probably the best driver on the team. Also, one of the best cutters on the team. Also, someone that both LeBron and Luca have very clearly decided, we want to have bolt in this guy. We want to hit ahead to every opportunity. He is kind of the first thing out of the canon that's starting every Lakers fast break. And so the fact that those two guys who are visionary passers can just throw sweet outlet passes, that works for everybody. And it just led to Austin Reeves playing, I think overall, the best sustained basketball of his entire career.

And that's that and the contextual factors that are making him a compliment to both Luca and LeBron. That's kind of why I believe this is more than just a mirage. I think there's the bones of something actually real here. My working theory with Reeves has always been that he has juice, but not elite level juice. So he always has needed some help in order to get that extra edge. A lot of it has been, and he popped early on, in part because he has an economy of movement. He makes quick decisions. Like he doesn't think when he gets the ball.

He's instantly going. And because he grist the shit out of every fucking possession. And those grifting moves, I think, play a role because then defenders get in their head like, oh, I can't leave my arm out. And that gave him a little bit of space in order to get downhill. He's not the biggest athlete, but he's a good athlete. And I do think you have seen that start to pop yet again because teams are so dedicated on stopping Lucas, stopping LeBron, especially when they're both out there. That is given Reeves the Ed to do what he's done. I've always thought he was a good score.

He's showing that yet again now that he has the extra bit of space. I think the, dare I say, tension point yet again is just this team need more offense. Like, do they need to outscore teams? Because obviously the defense is starting to lack. part of that is because LeBron's been out of the lineup. Part of that is just March basketball. Maybe they're saving themselves for the playoffs. But I do think if they want to be legit,

the defense has to be at least like, you know, better than league average. And I don't know how they get there with Reeves, LeBron at 40, 41 going into next season and Luca. They probably do need a little more offense than that way. And look, this Lakers team, I think, is going to undergo some renovation in the offseason overall. This is still a post-Luca trade team that had to,

reconfigure itself on the fly. The reality, though, is if you have that roster and you're going to try to win with defense, which is what they've mostly done since the Luca trade until recently when things have started to slip, as you said, that requires playing a really taught, connected, high energy style of defense. Like, you don't have Anthony Davis back there anymore. You have Jackson Hayes, and that's only on the days that he's healthy. And so everything else has to work.

Everything else has to be connected. And if one piece is off, and this is, I think, is fair a place to criticize Reeves as anywhere. He does play with energy, but is a defender who can get picked on. The defense is nasty work. He will get targeted and exploited. That's a real thing that you have to talk about with his game. And the Lakers right now today aren't always so finely calibrated that they can make up for that every time out.

I think on their best days, clearly during their best stretches, they've been one of the better defenses over the last couple months. But it's hard to sustain that all the time. It's hard to keep that up in ways that I think maybe aren't just picking your spots and waiting for the playoffs. but a representative of just how difficult it is to defend the way that they do. I think the question is, like, are they preserving themselves in order to hit another level in the playoffs? Because their top six seating is virtually assured.

They had a long runway when they traded for Luca. Do you think, like, they're putting, they're easing off the gas pedal a little bit where they know that they'll have extra days of rest in order to execute this? Or do you think these sorts of issues that their 20th defensively in March are going to carry into the playoffs? Look, we like the Bulls to allow 150 points to them in regulation shows that, like, you've taken a step back on defense in terms of the energy you're willing to put out. The freaking Pacers game, when LeBron made that tipping at the end, I mean, Luca got blown by two times in the clutch with no effort. It's just obvious collectively, they show that, all right, like, when we're super connected and playing on a string, we can be good enough on defense to where we even sometimes look good on that end. But what that takes is maximum buying and maximum effort from every single person on the floor. Like, nobody can take a possession off for that type of defense to work.

And so I think they still have it in them. And they're like a veteran-laden group. guys are going to be in their right spots, come play all time and execute their game plan. Like, you know, remember the Nuggets game where they're fronting Yolkich and following them and being physical. Like that team does not give up 150 points to the freaking Bulls in regulation, right? So you know there's like a difference in the gears they can hit defensively. Not that they're going to end up being as good as like a Rockets or something like that on defense, but they're going to be like respectable.

It's not going to be a freaking turn style. And I think they'll be fine enough on defense. Well, especially because they have a bit of an opening, given the teams that are fighting in that tier was. Like, yeah, they're not going to be as good as the Rockets on defense. But you watch the Nuggets some nights. They can't guard anybody in certain games. You know, we've talked about the Grizzlies where they are.

Who knows? The one exception to that, Justin, maybe another one of our Mirage teams that is storming up the bottom of the West. And I got to say, really feels like a. team that's peeking at the right time. They're definitely fighting for a lot of things these days, including that succeed in the West, but first and foremost, the Detroit Pistons, which that was spicy. Yeah.

Pablo Prigioni getting involved. Yes. Also, I don't know if you caught the video of that. Prigioni, as he was warring with J.B. Bickersat, both of them ultimately got ejected in that seven-person ejection that erupted last night. He tried to, like, do the very Euroleague, like, Euro player thing of putting his armor around the assistant coach while you could clearly see he was badgering somebody. And the coach was like, get the fuck off me, which I really appreciate.

I have to say, we're going to talk about the wolves, but I do want to talk about the fight first and foremost. Sure. Yeah. Like, is this Stewart okay? Sometimes I think he's on the court because he wants to hurt someone. He's a maniac. This, his name is beef stew.

Like, this is what he's out there to do. Like, he is. You think the beef refers to him wanting to start beefs? Yes. Oh. Oh. I thought it was more. I thought it was the build.

Yeah. I thought it was shoulders alone. He was beef stew. He's constantly in beef. I mean, in that case, Justin is our beef stew. There's no doubt about that. I don't know if I'm at that level. Because I don't know if you saw the strum.

Like, so Hollins starts shit with, with Devin Chenzel. Or actually, Stewart. If you want to. If you go all the way back, it was Stewart starting with Defenza, but then Holland got involved. But as he's his beef protege. He's like taking him under the wing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When Holland was on the ground and there was a scrum forming and clearly Reed and Holland were being buried,

that's when Stewart decides to jump over the mosh pit like he's a running back trying to score at the goal line. Just the fucking fight, DeVincenzo. That guy's a madman. That whole fight was just like every incendiary element you could pack on a court in one space. And I put Dante DiVincenzo in that too. Like that, that dude is not afraid to get into a scuffle with just about anybody. And so, yeah, you put enough of that in one space. You light a match.

You walk away. You see what happens. Apparently it's this. But I appreciated the wolves, not only like standing up to the tough guy stuff that obviously Detroit tends to bring out of a lot of different teams. I think we're half the league at this point where they've tried to start fights or actually did successfully start a fight. but the wolves came back.

They threw a goddamn haymaker in the second half. Edwards looked incredible. And I have to say, like, Jaden McDaniels might have played the best two-point game that I've seen in history. Yeah. That guy was literally, like, just skying in the air for offensive rebounds.

And at a certain point, the broadcast was like, Jaden McDaniels from the ceiling because he was like sting descending from the top of the arena in order to get offensive rebounds. He's been on another level throughout this entire bunch.

I feel like someone reminded him. him was like, hey, actually you're incredibly large and have a huge wingspan. Yeah, you should play that way. Maybe you don't have to be just a wingstopper. Maybe you could do other things that combo forwards do, that the more versatile players in the league do. And all of a sudden, yeah, scoring is never going to be the Jane McDaniels skill set. It's never going to be the calling card.

But you do enough of these supplementary things. All of a sudden, you're just in a totally different class of player. I mean, the wolves on paper have the most physically imposing team in the NBA. in terms of the collective size. Look at the front court. It's not even just length. It's like these guys are diesel. Like these guys are, and they play that.

Like Julius Randall, for all of his flaws, he plays a physical style of basketball. Even Nas Reid, who, you know, he's taking a lot of threes. But when he wants to, he can bang with the best of them on both ends of the floor. And then, of course, Rudy has his, you know, 9 foot five wingspan or whatever. Like, and again, Jayden McDaniels, like a long, huge wing player. You know, Anthony Edwards, big, strong physical guy on both ends of the floor.

And so, you know, I think they're finally playing to their strengths and to the personnel, which is nice because the defense, you know, was pretty disappointing to start the season. Right. And things are finally coalesced. I think this is because a lot of, you know, a lot of the hipster takes when they traded Carlton's like, they could be just as good as they were last year. which I don't think it wasn't just you though it was a few people that had that

um like and I don't think that they've shown that quite that I don't think they've been even in this stretch and March and all that I don't think they've been as good as the team that they were last year which is damn freaking good but shoot man like a little notch and a half below that is that's a nice team if they play like this all year they'd be in the top four three in the conference

so what they have put forth 11 and 3 in March fifth on offense, third on defense. You can pick a lot of reasons why that's been the case and why things have turned around. Jaden McDaniels, we already said one of them. But there's kind of like a choose your own adventure thing here for us in terms of what you guys want to talk about.

Mike Conley lives, huge development for the wolves. Still alive. Julius Randall, I will say, playing some spirited team-oriented basketball, really and truly spirited team-oriented basketball. They got Dante DeVincenzo back, who's out for most of February, if I remember correctly, been bawling out. I think they've really

found something in Jalen Clark and something that they actually really needed. And then also Rudy Goberra, particularly since the All-Star break, I think has been dynamite. Also playing bigger and more dominant than he has at any point this season. What sings to you guys out of that group that we should dig into? I think they just have their identity back.

It's Edwards doing starship with the attacking, hounding, dog perimeter defenders. And I think that's why Clark has popped so much. And Nikila Alexander Walker is also playing well of later. Or at least he did against Troy. it just seems like they have reestablished their perimeter defense, which has made things easier on Rudy,

which is my biggest critique of Rudy, is that he's getting paid in order to be a defense unto himself, and he needs all these perimeter defenders in order to make his life easier. But having said that, it's all working in concert in the way that he did last season. The great Britt Robson, I've seen him referring to Jail and Clark's assignments as being in Clark County jail.

And I just think we need to get that. We need to get that out into the ether as far as humanly possible. For me, it's the Randall. portion of it because it feels like he's doing his Randall stuff with more emphasis on the past than previously had been the case. I think he's gotten it out of his head that he needs to drop 30 or 25 in order to get a nice new deal. And what you need to do is be an indispensable team player and you will get paid, bro.

And that's what I've been like when he does his little bully ball thing, a lot of times it feels like he's doing it to draw too. Like he's doing it to manipulate the defense and spray out the shooters. Which like, okay, like now you're, I'm starting to be interested. Julius Randall, jab step, dribble, dribble, you know, flailing and throwing something up

and shooting step back threes. I'm not that interested in that. Yeah. Player. Julius Randall, who is like just mauling every single defensive mismatch when a little guy is on him, getting to the line, you know, spraying out to shooters,

being a nice little transition player, like that guy where he's putting all of his physical gifts to use for the betterment of the team and not just his individual scoring output. Yeah, I'm interested in that. So the Randall part is what I'm watching because he's had like seven straight bad playoffs in a row. Has he ever been good in the playoffs in his life? Can he be good in a way that's complimentary to the guys that's on this team in the post?

and that's what I'm interested to watch. I hope so. I think that playmaking is a huge part of that. And he's still, he's always going to be a high turnover creator in that way, and he's going to throw some balls away. But overall, if the production,

like if the playmaking is productive enough, I don't mind a couple of sloppy passes. I don't mind getting caught in traffic now and again. Ultimately, this is a team that was five and eight in February when Randall did not play, and they were 11 and 3 in March when he did play. And in some ways,

it's more complicated than that. And in some ways it's not. I think what he's brought to them this month has been really, really huge. And whether you believe in that to continue is a fair question, as was circled around. Like, he just has not had the playoff resume to think he can be this guy all the time. But I certainly hope he can. I think they made the trade, obviously, for financial reasons. That's why they got rid of Katz, big old contract.

But I think it was also a bet on Edwards taking the next step and leaning into him more in terms of the long-term vision of the team. He is clearly our North Star. let's build the best possible version of team around him. And they didn't bring Julius Randall in, presumably, in order to jack a bunch of shots and like in order to earn a new contract, it was to help with the ball handling, to facilitate a little bit more. It's why Conley has been such a good caddy for Edwards and his development is because he kind of just like does all of the adult shit that you need from that.

Randall won't do all of that, but the playmaking is something that he desperately needs and you've seen it kind of trickled down from there. I think the big question, though, is have we recalibrated our thoughts on the wolves this season? in terms of what they can do in the playoffs. Right now, they're half game and back of the Warriors for that six spot. Was, do you think, one, who's your favorite now? We do this practically every podcast, but who's the favorite for the six spot? And two, do you think the wolves, like, how far do they ultimately get in the playoffs?

I still think it's got to be the Warriors, because, again, they just look freaking mega-motivated. And they look really good when Jimmy, Drayvon, and Steph take the court together. Also if the Grizzlies keep losing, the answer could be both. Yeah, facts. Good point. And so I still think it's the Warriors, but what I will say, man, is I don't know. I feel like Minnesota is definitely the scarier of the two is playoff opponents because of that physicality that I mentioned. And Edwards just, there's always the feeling that he's capable of even taking it further than even what he's already shown.

And as much as I love Jimmy, I love step, we kind of know what they're going to go out and do. And it's going to be varying degrees of really good to grade. But like it feels like with Ed, he could just go into the freaking atmosphere at some point. And that's why I think they're the scarier of the two. But I think Golden State will ultimately get, you know, that six seed. They're both pretty scary.

I think this could easily be the kind of year where we look up and a six or seven seat is in the Western Conference finals, right? like that somebody kind of stormed up the other side of the bracket that doesn't have the thunder on it, whether it is the Warriors, whether it is the wolves, or I mean, the Clippers have been super competitive and really fun to watch. And Kauai Leonard is an absolute fucking buzzsaw right now. I think the difference with Minnesota is they've sort of separated themselves

from the team we saw at times this season, which is super competitive in high leverage games against quality opponents, right? Like they showed they can show up and just like beat the nuggets, right? Like beat good teams on a regular basis. into one that does that, but also just overall, as a general rule, is showing up for these games

and delivering. And I really do think a lot of that as the defense you were talking about, Justin, like getting back to the point of defensive stability where Rudy is a good backline anchor, we have all of these supporting parts

on the perimeter who are doing their jobs. All of a sudden, the wolves look like the wolves again. So we're saying the wolf's success in this month, not a mirage. Not a mirage. We'll see about like long term

in terms of this playoffs. Yeah. I wouldn't want to play against them. If I were one of these teams at the top of the bracket, I wouldn't want to see the wolves. Unfortunately, that's like half the West at this point. I'm like going over my scary rankings and it's basically every goddamn team in the West. But let's wrap it there. We have something special for you on Thursday. We have an entire podcast. The whole shabang devoted to one team and that is our team of the season. What team is that? You'll have to tune in on Thursday.

But we not only are going to talk at length about that team. Also have a special guest from that team. So tune in on Thursday to check that out. But we'll be back then. We'll talk to you then. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll talk to you next time. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG dash help.com. Call 1-888-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline, ma.org, or 800-327-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts, or call 18778 Hope NY, or text Hope NY in New York.