The Ringer NBA Show - Is the NCAA Still Effective at Developing Prospects? Plus, Sue Bird on the Rapid Ascent of Women’s Basketball. | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 28, 2024

Logan and Raja discuss how effective the NCAA is at developing NBA prospects in comparison to the past, the positive (and negative) impacts of NIL, and differences in the international approach (3:47). Next, they talk about what is required of athletes to navigate the new era of sports gambling amid the ongoing investigation into Raptors center Jontay Porter (31:46). Along the way, the guys pick their Real Ones of the Week (46:52). Later, four-time WNBA champion Sue Bird joins the show to talk about the current state of women’s college basketball, how the game is growing through player-led media platforms, what makes Sabrina Ionescu such a special star, and much more (49:10). Email us questions for Mailbag Monday! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Sue Bird Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever wondered about the meaning behind your favorite song lyric or why certain melodies make your skin tingle? I'm Cole Kushner and these are the kinds of questions I try to answer on Dissect, a podcast that dives deep into one album per season examining the music, lyrics, and meaning of one song per episode. I've dissected full albums by Kendrick Lamar, Radiohead, Tyro the Creator, Beyonce, Kanye, and more. Our latest season just launched all about MF Doom's Mad Villany. Listen to Dissect wherever you get your podcast because great art deserves more than a swipe. What is Poppin? Logan Murdoch here, Raja Bell there.

It felt so good to say that. I'm back, me. You're back. I got to set up, people, the fucking producer said I got to set up a segment before we go into our talkby bag. You know what I mean?

So hold on one second. First segment, we're going to go. Wait, rules have changed. Rules have changed. Rules have changed since I've been gone. A little bit, a little bit, a little bit.

A little bit. A little bit. First segment, we're going to talk about a little bit about the state of college basketball. Second segment, we're going to talk about how a player navigates, the new era of gambling in sports that we're in.

Then we're going to talk to, I'm going to talk to an old friend of the show, Sue Bird, who came to gave us the state of women's basketball talk that we have every year. But first, where the fuck you been, Raja? Can I just say, we missed you, dude. What? I mean, you guys know I missed you. I mean, I haven't been this true step to start a pie. People could probably tell in a while.

And it was 10 minutes late still. I could see. I could see why the set. up would be important from a production, right? Like, like, if I were listening, let me know what's on the agenda for the day before you guys get off on one of those crazy, like, tangents. Like, give me, give me what I'm going to be either staying here or leaving. And would just be like, okay, they know what we're going to talk about.

And then we get to it. And then I guess that's not how it goes. Never assume. Never assume. People don't realize me and Rogers got put together. We didn't know what the fuck we were doing on this podcast. We had no idea how the hell we were going to do a podcast. My first thing with Bill Simmons when he called me was what, what?

What is a podcast? What's a podcast? Real talk. Like exactly what, I mean, what do they do? Bill literally just hit me and was like, hey, you're going to do a podcast with Roger. Going to see how it goes. Here's his number. And then we had the most awkward 20-minute conversation that has ever happened.

And then this is where we blossomed to me. Anyways, where the fuck you been? I was traversing the United States with my son. It was his spring break. So we took the opportunity to go out and hit as many of the programs that he might be interested in as we could. So, I mean, we were at LSU, we were at Texas, we were at Ohio State. I was on his story. The offers were just flowing in.

They were just flowing in, all the offers. Yeah, those were kind of unexpected. The ones he picked up, I'm sure he's very grateful for them and appreciated that. But they were programs that whether he had an offer or not right now, he was interested in, like hoping that one day they might reciprocate the feeling. So it was good. Man, it was a long trip. It was, we saw a bunch of great schools.

I was able to draw some parallels to being back in a locker room and remembering how important culture is and having guys at the top of your structure even in the NBA that are living that culture. So the young guys, like the Dias coming in, you know, can be immersed and integrated into it. And then it was just good time for me and him, man. Like I got two more years with him.

And then he's flying on his own. So like, it was a good trip. You're getting a little sentimental, bro? You're going to be like, damn, dog, a little more. That's your firstborn. So he's about to be out. Goes fast. Yeah. I wanted to have a conversation. Keep it on college, but keep it on college, bring to college basketball since we are in the thick of March Madness.

One of the things that I really wanted to do is kind of have a state of like college basketball conversation with you in terms of where we are as a, how college basketball has become, you know, it's always been a development league by and large for the NBA or pro basketball in general, right? Like obviously, for student athletes and obviously it's it's it's it's it's it's what it is in those in those ways but how have you seen us evolve as a as a college basketball staff record label mother effing crew because i'm looking at kOC's big board and three of the five guys aren't from the you are not from the u s and are not playing on college teams two of which of the two of those players in the top 11 aren't even playing for traditional um college powerhouses both of which are playing for the g league and nine of two things. thinking about Ron Holland and someone from Lithuania that I do not know his name.

But where we are right now, I know the NIL is, me and Sue are going to talk about this in the next segment. But just where women's college basketball, it seems like NIL has, it's like the perfect storm for women's basketball. I feel like for the men's, it's just widen the divide. and I don't know where we are with this in terms of how that affects development. I'm honestly just coming at you and I just have you with hell of question. Just going to bring you hell of questions.

Where are we in this NIL era for college basketball and how is it affecting how we prepare guys stateside for the professional leagues? It's a big question. I'm not sure that I have all the right answers as it relates to the question. I would start by looking. at it from from two different perspectives. I think from the NIL era specifically from a fan

perspective, I don't think it's been great for the game of college basketball. I am I am all four cats getting paid. I remember when I would run out of like whatever the point system was at Boston University on my card where they give you this little bit of money and I'd run out and none of the none of the cafeterias would be open and you're literally starving like my I didn't have no money. So I always thought that was crazy. I'm all four people getting paid. But what it's done for the fan is the 12-year-old me that loved North Carolina basketball and knew Logan Murdoch when he came in as a freshman and watched him go through his, you know,

struggling year where he got on the court once in a while to now he's a junior and he's one of our best players. Those days are done. So the warm and fuzzies that you get with the program because you grew with the people, and you've known them for years and you've watched them on their journey. Like that doesn't exist in the same way. Yeah. You know, so like, I couldn't tell you more than 10 names in college basketball right now. Like, that's hard for me.

And I'm aware of the teams. I've seen some of them play, but I just don't have that same attachment to the programs. Now, some of it's that I'm a pro, but I imagine that, you know, that's the same way for my sons and younger people out there. So that's difficult. From a coaching perspective, you know, I've talked to. to a few coaches, right? Like, a couple weeks ago I came on and gave you my real one of the week.

It was my young, like, nephew from Colonia, New Jersey, who was player of the year. So he's in the portal now. And his portal is blown up. Like, he's got, like, some really cool opportunities in front of him now. And because I'm so close, I've been in some conversations with some coaches in regards to him, right? And so hearing them talk about what NIL has done to their ability to develop kids, not specifically for the NBA, Logan, but develop them in the way that they'd like them to be developed

so they could be contributors to a program ultimately. And it's not just an individual thing with the college coach. Like, you're developing a class. You know, I came in with two other guys. We were, the class, we were supposed to be the face of Boston University basketball, or FIU basketball as we got older. And so never knowing when one of those things is going to get pulled away from your program, especially if you're at the FIUs and the Boston universities

and you have a good play. You really have no chance of retaining them. Like they're gone. You're like a, I mean, you're like a Juko in some regards. Like it's tough because they play great basketball. Those coaches,

the dude, Joe Gallo at Merrimack is a stud. Like, he'll coach with the best in the country. And I mean that. I've watched him. I've been in his practices. But they just don't have the resources to keep the kids.

They're not playing on the platforms. And the money and the opportunities with, with facilities. and things like that are just too great in other places. So it becomes very difficult from a coaching perspective to really develop, to develop what you'd like to do,

to have a plan in place. And it's tough also when you're talking about that and building on that point, it's also tough when, and I'm not I'm going to preface this by saying, I am hella juke that the players

are getting paid and I also have some level of power in this, right? Like, that they can, you know, make the money that they make. Also, we both know this. There's a lot of, like, bad situations in college where the players are getting messed up over, you know, and they want to leave, and it's hard for them to leave, especially back in the day when it was the one-year rule where you would have to sit out a year if you

transfer that's just tough on everyone. But how much of it is now where there are some things where complaints from coaches where as soon as he or she or they try to maybe get on a player or maybe just tell the player, this is what it is. The player is like, I'm out. You know, I'm going to the transfer portal. And they have that power. But also it's like, are they going to get the other side of it where they're going to get the discipline that is required to be on the stage?

Because as a consequence, I was talking to Steve Kerr a couple months ago. And, you know, he made the, he said this just in regards to Kaminga. It's in the story. This is on the record where he was talking about how nowadays, we are coaching sophomores, juniors, and seniors as players. And it's a different development and different type of pressure now on the NBA. Because these guys are what moving around a lot, they're not sticking with a coach. And when you move around, you're not actually getting developed when you're, as soon as you get critiqued,

you're like, I'm piecing out. I'm out of here. I'm going to somewhere else. That's a better situation. And that's not just a basketball thing. I know you see that on the football side as well. What do you, I don't, how do you find a balance between, you know, the power and also like, I mean, this probably is good for me. And you have a coach that it may be at a mid-major, but I want the greener pastures. I want these other things where at the end of the day, that might actually hurt you in the long run. It's a good question. Let me go back for a second and say that while it is very difficult, and I'm telling you that these people

can't retain their players in some instances because of financials and so on and so forth, I mean, I support the movement. I was the beneficiary of being able to move. Now, I did have to sit the year, but I would never sit here and tell you there needs to be a system in place where kids don't have opportunities and options, right?

Like that, I would never sit here and do that. Let me get back to your question. It's where it's critical that you have people around you and a support system around you that has some perspective, that has a level head on their shoulders, that isn't just telling a player, a kid, a young woman or a young man what they want to hear. It just becomes critical. Like, again, I've had these coaches talk to me about parents and their unrealistic expectations and how that seeps into a kid's ear. So at the first moment, a coach tells them it's

not what they think it is or not what mommy and daddy told them it should be that there is work to be done. It could be that one day, but you're not there yet. As soon as they hear that, their first instinct is to get up and bail, looking for someone that's going to do what mommy and daddy do, which is tell them, hey, no, you're good. You're already that guy. That's not helpful. So it's, it's a very, it's a very difficult thing. And I think, you know, you see the younger generation of player come into the NBA and the ones that, that are moldable and can get it. There's a faction that already get it. there's a faction that already get it.

They're straight. They got a good head on their shoulders. They're fine. That's not who we're talking about. Then there's a group of people that may not fully get it. Some of them, if you indoctrinate them and put them in a system that promotes the right stuff, will eventually get it. You never know what time line they're on.

Some get it quicker than others, but eventually might get it. Those you see succeeding, the ones that don't get it are chewed up and spit out by the lead. Like they don't get it. they'll never figure that out. They'll never figure out that, you know, the tough love is necessary at times. And it's okay for someone to maybe hurt your feelings, right? Like, you're not going to hear everything you want to hear all the time.

Let me just go back to me again. I went to Boston University. I played for Dennis Wolfe, who was not the person who recruited me. I was 17 years old. I was a very young freshman. it was my first time away from home, and I was doing dumb shit. And Dennis Wolfe was telling me that I was doing dumb shit.

If I could have got up and left at that point, I might have left on my own accord. My dad probably would not have let me walk out of there just like that. But the fact that I stayed another year listening to Dennis Wolf, it didn't sink in for me right then. It did not. But I've told Dennis Wolf, this since then. Like, I left after the next year. And so much of what he was trying to get me

to understand, even if, even if I wasn't ready to understand it, stuck with me and lasted and eventually it sunk in, right? And eventually I got right. Did you transfer because it, you was hardheaded? Did you transfer because it like, what was the reason behind that? I transfer over multiple things, right? I was, again, I was, I was up there not doing what I should have done academically or or even even in the space of just just uh you know being the person all the way around that i should have been but i thought that there was more out there for me in terms of having the ball in my hands um you know we were we were he was recruiting his kids and it the complexion of the team looked like one where i wasn't i wasn't going to be as focal a point in it as

i thought i might have been when i was recruited by someone else and so when you put all that stuff together we made a decision to leave there. But I'm sitting here telling you now, as much as I had a distaste in my mouth for Dennis Wolfe when I left there, he's a huge part of who I became. Because sometimes you got to tell young kids hard things to listen to from their perspective

because it's what they need to hear. You know, you're 40-some years old. You got perspective. I did not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's bring this to like a global stage, right? where there's a lot of, and I think this might be a little bit even more you're bad because you're in the AAU streets. You're in the gyms right now.

And that's the first look at who was going to be in the league and who we're going to be talking about in four or five years. And there's been a big criticism of AAU. We can get into that or not get into that. But like, how do you see how we prepare our young players at a youth level versus how they prepare players overseas at a youth level? What are the differences? I mean, there are a lot, and I could get in the weeds with it. But I think fundamentally, they take a holistic approach to developing a kid and to developing a young potential prodigy in the sport.

That's your skill set. It's your understanding of the game. It's your understanding of hierarchy and how to not have it all given to you right away because you're playing with men and you can be Luca Donchage, and you're not the first option right away. As a 15-year-old, you're paying dues to a certain respect, right? It is the we over me in a lot of instances, the way they learn to play the game.

There's a lot of sharing involved. Far too often, because I won't say all the time, but far too often, we promote the me culture. We're solely focused on skill set, handling the ball, scoring the ball, creating shots. Go on Instagram, right? There are some remarkable, and I've talked about this years ago, micro skills guys out there.

They can teach you how to basically perform and execute all of the moves that your favorite NBA player executes and break that down to like little tiny pieces of skill that ultimately build you there. That's a remarkable ability. Right now, you might not wind up being as physically talented as some of those guys so the end result doesn't look the same, but they can get you to do it. you rarely see anybody talking about the understanding of the game, situational awareness of the game,

identification of what someone is trying to do to you defensively, and because of that, these are the areas of the court that we're trying to attack and why we're trying to do that. We don't do that. And the reason those guys, you can't find them on Instagram is, no one wants to hear that shit.

I mean, their salesman too. They make their money. off of this, right? So, like, why would I put up videos that no one wants to watch? Everyone wants to learn how to make a, a dig step into a downhill, underdrag,

toe tap, step back. Everyone wants to do that. Are we going to do that? Are we going at JJ and LeBron with the bag right now? We're just talking about the game? Are we mighty the game right now? No, I love the game. It's a beautiful thing. But once you've developed all of the holistic parts

that I'm talking about, we can then get to that. Those are refined. of your game. Those are at the highest level, and I'm dealing with apex predators defensively that I have to get a millisecond of light to get this shot off. So I got to have these type of skills. That's not the way a fifth grader should learn to play the game. How should a fifth grader learn to learn the game right now? What is it? What should it be? Should it be a gradual thing? Like, how should they, how should they be developed? I deal with this all the time. I'm, I'm in a little mini cold war, you know, at times right now, right? Like, 15 you, let's say. We go back, fifth grade, you should learn fundamentals, dude.

Like, you should learn basic fundamentals, things that will transcend your whole career and carry you through it. You should learn, you should learn what zones are trying to accomplish, what man to mans are trying to do to you as a ball handler,

what they're trying to do to you, when you're off the ball, you should learn that if, you know, your man is locked on the ball as a defender, when he turns back and looks for you, you should not be there anymore. You should learn how to cut without the ball.

There are things that you should learn that make you good basketball players. Our fifth graders far more often than not are just learning how to shake their man and make the crowd go, ooh, so they can get on some sort of social media. So I deal with this now, like 15 you. You know, there's a player, and I live this,

and I'm going through it with my son. Like, I didn't train my fifth, my, my, my, my, um, fifth grader to like go between the legs and, and, and shake his man down and have four people stand there and watch him. and he just doesn't play like that. So he's in the eighth grade now, and he's playing on a ninth grade team.

And understanding the game, there's a huge, vast void between him and the players on his team. They don't understand the game. They think that the game is played the way I'm describing it, right? And because some of them are really successful at being able to dance on the ball and get a bucket, like people become fascinated with that. And I'm talking with my son about like, look,

brother, skill level will develop. Like that's coming because you're working at that every day. Like you and I are in the backyard or you're with a trainer or you're back there by yourself. That will come. It's getting better and better and better. Right. But your understanding of what you're trying to do, what you're trying to accomplish as a

primary ball handler, what you're trying to do when you get downhill on a pick and roll, who you're identifying if that pick and roll stretches you out and now you've got to either hit the roll or hit the lift behind it. Like, your ability to process that at the end of the day is going to have you light ears ahead of the kids who have no understanding of that. I don't care if their skill sets better than yours or not right now. Don't even trip on that. But it's a tough world he lives in because the people with the skill sets are rewarded. Yeah.

Because that's our culture. They're getting the rankings. They're getting the rankings for their highlights, right? They're getting the looks because of their highlights, right? Which is a bigger, which is a bigger conversation, Logan. How dare you have me come right back and get right in my bag? But I deal with this with Dio all the time. Like my older boy is ranked, right?

And people like, he's 16 years old, man. You got grown men on there talking about either he should be ranked higher or he shouldn't be ranked. You know what I tell all of them? It's the same thing I tell him. Who's the fuck about a ranking? Yeah. Why the hell are we ranking 16 year olds and 15 year olds? It's not even about that.

I literally, I never get in somebody's DMs. I got in somebody's DMs the other day about like it's not about ranking. dude. Yeah. It's not. It's about development. Hey man. Once upon a time a young kid by the name of LeBron James was wasn't as ranked as high as you thought he was

and went to ABCD camp and played the number one recruit by the name of Lenny Cook and cooked him. That's what it's about. And that's what it's about. It's always settled on the floor. Yeah. That's what it's settled. But like the different, okay, so we just talked about the American version of that. What is

the European version of that? The the overseas version of that. What is a kid doing in Spain that a kid in Detroit ain't doing right now? Now, they have an advantage because in a lot of instances, they are in an academy where they are not at home

to the degree that a kid in Detroit or Florida would be at home. This is multifaceted. One, you don't get the parent in the ear all the time. The parent has no agenda in most cases unless you have real perspective on it. other than your kid's success. Like, there's no talking about giving up a little piece of yourself for the team.

Like, there's no conversations around maybe turning down a shot that's good to get a great one because you're solely concerned about your kid's success. So in Europe, they get these kids out of the home in a lot of cases and they have them in an academy, right? The academy, of course, you're going to work skill. That's a huge part of playing the game. Don't get me wrong. If you're not skilled enough to operate on a court, like you can understand all you'd like

to you're not you're not going to have success you won't be a successful player so we've got the skill component then in a lot of instances they spend a lot of time without the ball in their hands they spend a lot of time focusing on how the game is played without a ball in your hands because think about the amount of time you're on a basketball court just in pickup yeah the vast majority of your time is spent without the ball in your hands hey i'm gonna be honest i used to hate that shit, bro, because I was not that good and I wasn't the ball handling guy. Like, I didn't get the ball all the time, bro. I'll just be running cardio up and down the floor.

Yeah. So, like, that can be very frustrating, right? So they focus on that, which allows even a player who matures into a primary ball handle, like a yokeach, right? Let's say when he first starts, ball's not in his hand a lot. He's learning to play without it in his hands. But now he develops into this thing where you're like, the ball's got to be in his hands because he's just this talented.

like he's a unicorn, so to speak. The ball's got to be in his hands. But because he understands how everyone is going to be playing without the ball in his hands, and that's his background, he becomes that more effective with it in his hands. Yeah. Because now he's able to just like, it's like a quarterback who grew up playing defense. Like my son Dia played safety, strong safety and linebacker coming up. And he always would say to me, when I'd ask him, because I have no football background,

he'd be like that. I understand where they're going to be. I know where they're going to be because that's what I would have to do in cover three or cover two. So he knows, before he even really knows what he's doing from the quarterback perspective,

he understands what areas of the field should be open. So Yokic has it in his hands, and he understands, well, you know, Michael Porter Jr. is in that corner. If I were in that corner and the ball was up top

and this happened on the weak side, here's what I would do. And so if Michael Porter can learn to see it like that, Yokic has just put it into space. You'll see Yokic pass the ball into space. Yeah.

He's anticipating what you're going to do. There was a fucking pass that Yokic did the other day, bro. I don't know if you saw it, but he was in the post. Hey, Keith, find this. He was in the post. And Aaron Gordon comes out of nowhere. He didn't even see Aaron Gordon. He's in the post, just throws it over his head to Aaron Gordon, bro.

That's the type of anticipation that he has. Find that, Keith, clip that, lock it in, we're ready to go. Well, that, I mean, again, that's a perfect example of this is what, in theory, I would do. Luca has that in his bag too, man. I saw him the other night just literally, just sees the floor so well. You could see those dudes get really frustrated. And I'm not saying our American players don't have that

because LeBron is like that. Like LeBron understand it. And you could see them like, you know, that look where NBA players are giving you these huge saucer like eyes. Like, yo, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. Like, you missed that. And some players, like, I was one of those players. I didn't see it.

I didn't see it that great. So it's not a knock. But, you know, the other thing I think they do in Europe, is also, at least when they're younger, to whatever degree they can keep you as a part of the pack, as a part of the unit, they try to keep that for you. You know what?

It was funny. I was talking, I was having this conversation with a coach about a week ago, and they were taught, Yokets got brought up. And they were like, you know the reason why? Because it was actually the same questions as you that I was asking to him.

And he was like, you know why the Slovenian team is good? and Serbian teams are good and why Yokic is good. It's because it doesn't matter that he's Yokic. He's still sitting at the table. They're having lunch and dinner all together. There isn't any like agendas.

It's not like it isn't David Ruffin and a temptations. You know what I'm saying? Like it's we're all living and breathing this culture together and it don't matter to how much money we make. We're all going to be in this Olympic village together, eat, chill and catching up with the family. It's more of a family environment. Yes.

When it comes to. like when you're a European basketball player. They preserve that for you in a way that doesn't self-promote for a kid too early. And we are the opposite of that. We are about brand-building. So self-serving. We are about brand building out of the jump. I have no beef with the coldest third grader on the planet, whoever he is or whoever she is.

I don't have any beef. I haven't seen your highlights. I haven't seen your highlights, but I know you're out there. I don't have any beef. But Logan, what is that telling the third grader boy or girl? What's it telling them? It's about, it's my show.

The money suggests that it's your show. You always follow the money in America. We have, and it's like a source of a lot of like frustration for me, a culture where not even the kid, not even the kid, like they will media outlets cover a kid who had 35 points in a game. And that be the most viral clip on Instagram, 35 points in a game. All of these incredible skills and shot-making ability.

And guess what? His team lost by 20. I see that all the time, man. I see that all the time. What are we doing? It's just like what Kelly Ubrae did the too small down 30. You know what I mean? Like it's just,

that's where we're at right now, bro. Now, now don't get me wrong. I'm saying this. I live in a world where a videographer might want to come film one of my son's games. Yeah. And I've had the conversation with him.

about a dope-ass video, fire video. You're not posting that. Why? You lost. You're not putting that up. You lost. It's not going up. I have the feeling that for the, as long as we do real ones,

we're going to have about a million more of these conversations. But, you know, I had to get you back in your back. I appreciate it. They're cathartic for me, man. I really appreciate it. But look, I mean, our game isn't more skilled. The players are, we've said this. They're better as skilled basketball.

basketball players, they're bigger, they're stronger, they're faster. There's nothing wrong with any of that. But once you strip down, like, once you strip that conversation away and you get into the overall development, there are things that are lacking. Like, I don't even think that's arguable. Like, we, we have some fundamental, like, issues as, as a basketball culture outside of the beauty of the training and the, the skill development and the strength and condition. I got an eighth-year-old, And, I mean, an eighth grader that's, that's dunking, like real coming down the lane, piping on people. I didn't dunk until the 11th grade. You can't tell me that kid's not better than I was in a three.

And I still can't dunk. Do you know what I'm saying? So, like, that's come a long way. But the reality is, like, we could do better. I think it's just a little bit more tweaks. Like, we do a couple tweaks here there because you have the skill level, bro. We just had the, you know, just had the desire. Just have a couple little tweaks.

It's just like, yeah, but I think we'll be fine. Let's say a quick break. And then we're going to talk about the current. landscape for players and gambling. Van Duel's putting the ball in your court for the rest of the NBA season because right now, new customers get $200 in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $200 if your bet wins. My bets tonight, I'm going to take Atlanta with the points, and I'm going to take Milwaukee

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Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit the ringer.com slash RG. First online real money wager only, $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-waddrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook. bandwold.com. Hey, Sue, you know I'm a bucket, right? A bucket?

Logan, everybody knows journalists can't hoop for shit. Brer, you really hating on me right now. You know the jumper's pure. Watch this. Whoa, pure garbage. Stop embarrassing yourself. Whoa, whoa, wait. Stop playing. Stop playing. Stop playing.

Yo, on the real, though, I got this men's league popping in the night. I know you in town. Pull up. Watch me. Do my work. Watch. Just watch. I'll show you. Did you just say Men's League? The only way you get me to watch that is they lowered the rims for you, bombs. And we are back.

Curious times right now in sports. I just want to talk really quickly just about not necessarily like gambling in sports. There's other places that are smarter than me that can do this conversation. Maumani Jones had a really good conversation about this a couple weeks ago. But I do want to talk, just in light of this Jonté Porter's, situation. We just know that the NBA is is investigating whether or not Porter intentionally ensured that his stats would come in below prop lines. I just want to have a conversation with Raja about the discipline that's going to be required by NBA players and athletes in general

in this due era in general. Now, I know Van Duel is a sponsor of the pod. Love Fandual. Thank you for all you do for official sports book partner of the NBA of the NBA damn right but in this um in this era that we're in like what is required of a player in this type of time right like there's there's there's there's so because gambling is here it's going to be here this is it's here to stay the money's there how do you navigate through this world clean in this way and i guess that's the that's the the best the best question i can ask right now during this time Let me answer this question by first starting with a story. I got a phone call from my son.

He was at school one day. Weird time to get the call. Any parent out there knows, like as a parent, a pit kind of gets in your stomach when you get a weird out of the moment phone call. Out of the usual pattern of calls call. So I'm like, what's going on, dude? And he's asking me about a game. and what I thought about a game. And it sounded gambling-ish.

So I asked him, and he was like, you know, someone asked me because they gamble and they got a parlay or something like that. And I didn't know much about this game. So I'd ask you. First of all, love that you feel comfortable doing that, right? You got a little proud, didn't you? You were like, yeah, that's what I was irate. And I say that to say, like, you get preachy as,

a dad about about or a mom or I don't know like someone who's responsible for another young person's life about a lot of things right like very important things and you could get preachy this conversation felt as preachy as one I would be having about him and his relationships with with with with with people that he liked and respecting them and not crossing lines there like do you these this was a heavy hitting conversation because I would say idea do not get involved in any way shape or form with gambling. Like, don't do it. Don't start that in the 10th grade. Do not. And he was, I said, this is not, you're not making bets. I checked his phone. I'm like, you don't have an account on one of these apps. Like, you're not gambling. Like, I wanted to make sure that this wasn't him

because it becomes exponentially harder to refrain from it, you know, when you start at a young age with it, just dibbling and dabbling and trying to figure out how to place bets. I don't even know betting verbiage. It's never been a part of my life. And so for me, it's not hard to abstain from that, like if I'm a player in any capacity, because I don't know anything about it. And so I was adamant with him because not only does it open up, and I had this conversation with him, because you know, he has an opportunity to be a high level athlete. Like, this isn't just about whether you're going to get kicked out of a league or not. Like, this gets into like every person that you've ever heard fixing games has had some kind of tie to like gambling. That's usually what it's

about. And also a little, a level of a deal. too, right? Like that that is also a big thing as well. And so like I was like, look, Dee, you don't, these are young kids. And the reason I say this is because the reason I said that to him was specifically was because these were younger kids that they don't, I don't think they have a fan dual app. They got a bookie. Like, now real talk. Like these are 11th graders with like, with bookies. Because and the reason I know that is because he said the word to me when he was describing what was going on. And that's when my red flags went up as it related to like, this isn't like a regulated thing. Dude. You. You know, he's you don't want to live in that world. Don't get in that world. Because the next thing you know, somebody's talking about, yeah, you owe them two grand. As a 10th grader,

you can't pay it. I need you to go out there and throw an interception. You don't want to be in that world. No, sir. Right? So we went, it was a heavy hitting conversation

and I'm sure from his perspective, he was like, why the hell is this dude bugging out? This was an innocuous conversation about who I thought was going to win the game tonight. Like, why are we here? But that's how important it was for me as a dad of a young kid.

who might have a chance to play sports in college and stuff like that, for him to understand that he should not dip his toe into those waters because it just opens up the possibility for so many things that far more often than not are negative. Like, you know what I mean? Like, they just are. You're not going to make enough money like to make a living out of it. Like, I'm sorry that I'm losing my train of thought on it and mixing my words

because it's a very real thing. I would say to any person that thinks that they are going to play in college or in the pros, don't introduce yourself to betting. Betting is great. Like, I got a lot of friends to bet. Yeah. A lot of them. They don't play in the NBA or the NFL or in major college sports.

And they don't, they don't bet on the things that they're doing. Do you know what I mean? So like, don't do it. Yeah. It's just interesting because like, I mean, it's going to, it's here. Like, the revolution is here. And it is getting televised in real time. I mean, you guys can look at your, look at all the news that has been coming.

And not just in the NBA, but just show me. Right. Exactly. All of that. And so I just, and like with that being said, like we are going to have to train our minds and how we look at it. And athletes are going to have to train their minds on how to be disciplined enough not to get caught up in it in that way, right?

Like it's just, this is what it is. And the people around them are going to. And I think it's more of a conversation of that, right? And it's not just gambling. It's how you stay disciplined. in a world that is so undisciplined. Like, what is the, we can just get off of gambling on that. Just like,

it gets a little, it gets a little tense. So when you talk about gambling on a show like this, right? But like, just in general, as a general state, as an athlete, what is it like where you have to be that locked in and focused when everything around you, pre, even this time,

it's just going a million miles an hour, right? Like, players can get caught up and so many different things in this life. What is the key to just keep it as straight and narrow as long as you are able to, right? Because that is a really tough balance in this era and in other eras in general. Like, how do you keep that focus? You have to figure out what your priorities are. What's important to you?

What's your main focus agenda? What are your dreams, your desires, your hopes? and then you're trying to protect them at all costs. What things in my life could put those in jeopardy? And anything that could put it in jeopardy, you try to get rid of it. It's as simple as that. Now, there are degrees of difficulty when it comes to that.

Some things might be more of a vice for you than that. Like alcohol or anything. Like it doesn't have to be gambling, right? Like some things are harder to give up. And they're going to be levels of success versus, you know, know, failures in some areas, but to the best of your ability, that's what you're trying to do. This is important to me. This is my dream. This is how I make my living. This is what may or may not change the trajectory of my family's legacy. Like, not just mine, but like generations of people,

I might be able to use this vehicle to change the trajectory of our family name. I'm not going to risk it by doing X, Y, and Z. You know, and look, this happens in every walk of life. This is not a gambling per se conversation. Right? Like there are things that a regular nine to five person can do and make a mistake with that may not cost them the opportunity

to work at their job. That same mistake made by an NBA, NFL, WMBA player could cost you your livelihood. It just comes with the responsibility and the platform that you're on. And so you have to protect

those things in the best way that you can. And the first step to that is priority. Like, what is a priority? Is the paycheck? Is your mom's new house? Is your, is your, is your, is your, you know, uh, siblings college tuition? Are those the priority? Or is the priority hitting a three leg parlay, um, that's going to pay you $1,200 just for the thrill of it? And I get it. It can be thrilling. But what's the priority? And I mean, I didn't mean to oversimplify it, but that's it, Logan. I don't have the answer to how you abstain when you grow up in a culture of this is like legal and their apps on your phone where you can do it. That didn't exist for me.

So those temptations, even though I'm sitting here all preachy guys saying I never did and I know the jargon, it wasn't available to me. Yeah. So I don't know how to live in this world necessarily that they live in. if you are someone who has grown up gambling, never really knowing that, hey, man, this might conflict with my ability to be a professional athlete. I can understand that. I could see that side of it. I would say never, ever, ever make it a habit of gambling on your sport or the female

version of your sport. Don't blur those lines, right? Like, if you play basketball, bet on football. Don't ever get it. Don't even bet on NCAA basketball. Don't do it. Do you know what I mean? Like, just try to keep some.

lineation, like clear lines in your mind that you'll never cross because those lines blur very easily. Yeah. And generally speaking, like, how did you, how do you, like, I always, always ask players, my favorite question, too, is like, whether it's this or it's like the first time you're going to the playoffs or first time, you know, you're going to league playing your first game. Like, how do you prepare for a situation or a life that you have no clue you're getting into, right? Like, there's always an adjustment period. I'm a remember there was an adjustment period. Like I didn't get my first beat job until like six, seven years of interning, right? Like, and not even knowing this life. And even then it was just like,

you get to another level and you're like, what the hell? How do I, how do I stay afloat without being stressed out or like just, I don't know, losing at all? You know what I mean? Like, you're always scared of the fall. Yeah. I don't even know. How do you do that? Like, I don't, I don't know. because you're in a different world than me, even in general, generally speaking. Like, how do you do it? Because for me, it's like, every day, it's like, oh, this person knows who we are.

This person is listened to the pod. It's crazy. It's a crazy world that we're in right now. It is a pretty crazy world, especially, you know, obviously with social media where all eyes can be on you. And I'm, you know, I, I wrestled with that at first. I didn't want to, I didn't want to have a public social media page.

You know, like I was really guarded. It was foreign to me, man. I'm like, man, I don't want people knowing who my kids are. Like, I don't, I don't, this feels creepy, you know, but I've, I've evolved. And, you know, there's been benefit to my kids in, in certain aspects of their life. So, you know, that's, that's been interesting to navigate. What I would say kind of to your original question about not knowing what you're going to wind up being, because I said, like, if you're going to play in the, you know, the NCAA in some capacity,

or you're going to potentially be a pro, don't do X, Y, and Z. then you'd say to me, well, like at 12, who knows that they're going to do that? And that's fair. You know, that's very fair. What I told my kids, when they told me their goals were to do whatever it was to do, like Ty wanted to play, you know, in the NBA and in college basketball, DSA wanted to play in the NFL and in NCAA football. Those are their dreams, right?

When we got those dreams, now you have to start preparing yourself to chase those dreams, right? And part of the preparation to chase those dreams is discipline in some of those areas. So as it related to them, social media was the first big thing that we had. Like, hey, man, you guys can't be putting, like, whatever you feel like putting up on your Instagram, on your Twitter, on your, on your, on your, tiki talk. You can't do it. I love that that's the name now. It's just the name. You have to have some discipline.

You have to comport yourself like. Like, and this is all, this is, like, people are listening to this like, oh, that's ridiculous. It's really not. Like, you have to comport yourself appropriately on those platforms because people will go back and find things that you put up that, that may paint you in a poor light and you were 13 years old. You had no perspective just being a young, dumb 13 year old, which I was probably dumber than most. But they captured that because you put it up. And now that's going to cost you something on the back end. We don't want to live in that world.

So it was fluid. They didn't get it overnight. I'd have to have conversations with them like, yo man, you have to take that down immediately. Or your choice of words on that caption, you don't want that. You don't want that. Take that down.

But that may never come into play because you might not wind up playing in the NCAA or the NBA or the NFL or playing in college football. But you have to start preparing yourself for that now and start acting like that now. so it doesn't cost you then. If you had never get to do it, you've lost nothing. You have a clean social media page.

Oh, shoot me. Do you know what I mean? But like you don't want to have a- I have a clean, not controversial Instagram page. That was the carnage of this. Damn. Right. And so those were the conversations.

Like, because you're preparing for something, Logan. Like you don't get to, I mean, to your point, you ain't wake up at 25 and say, hey, I want to be a writer. And I'm going to like, that didn't happen. you worked at that you invested in that for a long time knew i wanted to do this shit since like six years old bro yeah man yeah so you've been working towards that and part of that are the conversations about the behind-the-scenes stuff and and and things that could be you know um in conflict with that

if you will and we don't win all those battles we don't yeah but you're you're teaching yeah it's going to be an interesting um it's going to be interesting to watch how the next uh few years unfolded sports is all i will say um this is your own thing um we're at 50 minutes And I know Kai's going to kick our ass because we are giving him a damn near two hour edit. So let's get two Roan of the Week. I want to start it off first. And then we'll go to – this is a – I've just been lazy and forgot to give this Rowan of the Week. But I want to give one – it's a two-fold one.

And then I have another one. But I want to give a shout out to the staff record label and Mother F&Crew of 60 songs. They did their final episode a few weeks back. I know they got some stuff cooking very soon that you guys will be really, really be excited about. But that is Rob Harvella. That is our own Jonathan Kerma, who did a really great job producing it. The Super Producer at the Ringer. And my guy just sales and everybody that has been a guest on that show, it has been an iconic show.

I've been blessed to be on it twice. You guys did your thing, man, real ones. And also I want to give one real one to Kai Grady, who is going to have this two-hour edit, and he saves our ass. So thank you to those people. My dog, third eye, Kai. My real one of the week, I have a few candidates,

but I think the one that trumps them all is my wife, Cindy Bell, who stayed home. We have four kids. They have different spring breaks. Diaz was last week, and he had to get out and see some of these places. these colleges that he may want to go to. And she stayed home and greenlit the trip for Dia and I and had three different school

drop-offs every morning, three different practices every evening, three different school pickups every day. And she did all of that Dolo so that, you know, I could free up to take Dia out to see some of these places because he's got a decision looming on the horizon. And it is not lost on me how much work that is and how much sacrifice goes into like, you know, people's journeys. And so for that, she's the real one of the week. That's what's up, man. Shout out. No doubt.

Also, before we get to Sue Bird, real onesmailbag at gmail.com, real onesmailbag at gmail.com, real onesmailbag at gmail.com. Tap in with us. We're not playing. We'll answer all your questions on Monday. So now, Sue Bird in the flesh. Okay,

we have Sue Bird here. Second timer. You're kind of like, you're kind of like extended family of the pod now? Like, welcome aboard? Two times? Two times get you that? Just two times? Well, we haven't.

So this is the esteem company here. Steve Kerr, Kendrick Parkins, and I think you. I think of like that's the company you are in right now. Yeah, you finally got some East Coast blood. Oh my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So we have your East, uh, get whatever.

We'll have that argument offline. Okay. So you are going into your third year, uh, third year with Diana for the, to cover the final four alt-cal. It's interesting because I've been watching women's basketball for a long time at this point. And it seems like it has been in stages, right? It was like immediately after Title IX, the 90s, there's just this boom, right, where I think about Shemika Hostclaw, Rebecca Lobo, the Tennessee, Yukon rivalry.

And then I think the first peak is that 02 national championship, right? Where I think you guys have like 5 million viewers or something like that. And then, you know, we go to the Candace Parker era of college basketball. And then, like, I feel like not that there was a Dragers Maya more, there's all these things. But then, like, we're in the midst of this renaissance that reminds me of, like, the late 90s energy. When did you see or have an inkling of where we are right now that this was coming, right? Where you have the jujus and the Caitlin Clarks? Where did you see the start of this?

Where were the seeds planted on this run? that we're currently in. The main thing that's at play is like societal things. So there's some societal changes that happen. Sedona Prince's TikTok highlighting the discrepancies at the NCAA tournament when they were in a bubble,

so the men's weight room versus the women's. I think 2020 in general changed the conversation in this country around race. The WMBA was uniquely positioned because we played in our season that summer. so we're on TV a lot more, having to have, you know, getting to have these conversations. Obviously, it's a league made up of black women. So there's like probably a couple others, like societal things.

For me, that is like the main thing. That is the main thing. Like you can't have a conversation about the state of women's basketball without understanding how racism and sexism and all these isms really, like homophobia, et cetera, et cetera, have impacted it. But when I started to see. I would call it 2019,

because I remember vividly, we were about to enter, we were like really getting into our CBA negotiations. Like we were like in the thick of it. And when I started to see Paige Beckers and Haley Van Liff, fast forward a couple years, it's juju,

but when I started to see high school basketball players have huge followings, like Paige Becker's and probably Caitlin to some degree, I'd have to go back and check, but like I know page for sure. Page was like borderline a million followers on Instagram before she even got to be on. Yeah. So like when I started to see that, I literally thought to myself.

I've never said this out loud, but I literally thought to myself like, yo, from, from a not a player standpoint, like a WMBA league business standpoint. I was like they can't let these kids ever go overseas. Like the WMBA needs to do something with their business where these kids who are creating followings in high school, which are only going to get. like magnified in college because of the college basketball platform and the NCAA tournament, all the things, they can't, when those kids get to the WMBA, they can't let them ever leave. And that could be a turning point. And it's actually happening. Well, yeah, it's interesting because when I think about the time that we're in now, right, like just in college sports in general, we are in the NIL era, full stop. This is where we're at.

Right. And, but I've just seen the difference between the men's games and the men's sports versus the women's sports. And it seems like NIL on the men's side has really just divided how we think about college sports, right, with just the conference realignment. And I know that does affect women's sports, but I feel like in Ben's, it has widened the gap between the haves and the have-nots. Where I feel like when I watch college women's basketball, it's actually just gassed up what you guys have already had, right? where it's a good thing that Juju is getting all these sponsorships. And now she's in a great market like Los Angeles, right?

But then you also have Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese becoming these voices in a way that I feel like it's helping college women's basketball in a way that it's not happening on the men's side. It's more of like a widen and the half of the have. What is the difference you've seen between both entities on the men's side and the women's side? Yeah. Well, first of all, NIL, it even is a part of the last question. you asked, like, what has caused, like, some of the, it's NIL for sure. I mean, I'm going to take a stab at this. I've never really, like, thought about it, like, too deep. I would guess that in men's sports, because the professional leagues are still the destination financially, like, nobody's really as

focused on the NIL space as much in the college game for men's, right? Because a lot of these guys, like they're making their money, they're making their money, they're going to go make more money when they go to the next level. Now there might be, yeah, there's going to be outliers that are bomb in college and then don't become professionals. Obviously it is shifting like football and where players are going and transferring and this and that, which is shifting the conferences. But I think for basketball specifically, like just basketball,

either these players, the ones that are exciting to watch or the ones that have brand names have already been like one and done and are already in the NBA or maybe they went to, you know, the G-League Unite team or whatever other path there is. So they're not in college. So the ones that are in college, if you're good enough, you're going to go make NBA money. So it's just, it's not as much as, whereas on the women's side, it's, by the way, this is where we're getting to a whole other NIL thing. The money is there to be made as a professional women's basketball player.

I can sit here and tell you that. Like, I'm doing just fine. But the fact that these women... I've been to your house, Sue. You're doing just fine. It's great. You're doing great. I know.

We're dinks over here. Double income, no kids. Yes. Jealous. So with the women's side, I think, like, because college basketball has been around for so long, there's like these built-in fan bases, the game itself is big. March Madness is its own entity the women play on. Now they're getting paid.

It just elevates that status. So now you have a certain status that's coming with a college women's basketball player that for some reason, it's changing in the WMBA. For some reason, there's been some, like, negative narratives about the money we make or even that kids should stay in college. And obviously, listen, Caitlin Clark has a year on the table, like a year of eligibility. And she's given that up to go. So clearly there's money to be made on the other side. Would you guys have three years? I think also you guys have three years, right? Like I think I don't, I'm, you guys have three years in college, right?

Kind of. You can go play pro for one year at any point. And then you're eligible. Got it. Okay. If you go overseas, if you go anywhere and play pro for one year, you're immediately eligible, no matter how old you're eligible. That's how Europeans are in our league at 1819. Got it. It's kind of like one and done. You just got to go play pro somewhere for one year. It's like the old school Brandon Jennings back in a day.

You just go overseas for a year and come right back. But like the point that I was wanted to make on that, though, it seems like that is working to as an advantage. And this new NIL structure, right? It's working to the advantage of women's sports because you can make your money if you are a pagebackers or if you're a Caitlin Clark. But you have a bit of that more of that recognition around the country. because the consumer actually sees you over three years and then you go into the W.

And as you're building your brand through college, then you can go right to the W and you're already a star. Whereas I think right now where we are specific to college basketball, they haven't been able to manufacture those stars in this way in the NIL era because you don't have that recognition, right, the same one. And I think we're starting to see that even now with the tournament. One of the things that I wanted to ask you about, because you know, you started to touch more and you have been one of the guiding voices in growing the game

and how we are in this new era. And I know you were with LeBron and with uninterrupted. Like, what did you learn from that side of it and how to grow the game on the women's side and with the player-led media? Like, how have you been able to use that to also kind of do it right, do it with together and a touchmore and in different places like that. And how is the women's game kind of uniquely suited for this right now in the media age right now? We're growing all together as a media structure to cover women's sports.

Yeah, I think what you see on the guy side, on the men's side, obviously LeBron and uninterrupted is a great example. If memory serves, part of the reason why he started it and part of the reason why it's called uninterrupted is because, like, I don't want to put words in his mouth. I heard him talk about it once. It was like he felt like the media was able to, for lack of a better control things a little bit. He couldn't always get it out without being interrupted, like that kind of a vibe. And really, all that is is understand what I take from that and what I bring to the women's game. And what I'm really finding in my retirement is the stories exist. Like the storylines exist.

The rivalries exist. I mean, just touching on what you were saying, especially given that it's March, given that we're in the thick of it. The beauty of these women going to college for multiple years is it's going to, like, rivalries are going to, you're going to want to see Paige play juju, this NC tournament, and next. Like, it's going to continue.

Point being, all these things exist. They just haven't been told. And if they have been told, a lot of times, they haven't been told with the nuance that you need to tell these stories. So I think player-led companies, you already mentioned together, the other one that Megan and I have is a touch more. We're going to be able to have our experience and our knowledge and all that we bring. We're going to be able to provide that nuance.

So our fingerprints are going to be all over this storytelling. And then you're telling it accurate. You're telling it right. I can turn on the TV and listen to some people talk about college basketball right now. And they're getting like two or three things just like blatantly wrong. Wow. You sound like LeBron right now with the mind of the game. But it's true.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's true. It's like not even the X's and O. It's like, I'm not trying to call people out, but I turned on a popular ESPN program where there were two people talking. And they even got, they ended up changing and coming back and correcting it. But in the moment, they got the fact that Caitlin had a COVID year wrong. They didn't know that little. And those types of details, when you mess those things up, they add up. And so I just think our stories need to be told by those that have experienced it. Not that mainstream media isn't important. It is. is, but having these player-led companies come in, it's just going to make the storytelling that much better. And that's what grows games. That's what grows leagues. That's what grows sports. So the thing that I, the key difference I think is, you know, I've covered the NBA for a while. And it'll cover LeBron for a while in a distant way. But like, the difference I think with uninterrupted with LeBron and what you guys are doing is that there was a media infrastructure centered around covering men when he, when he started uninterrupted, right?

And I think with you, I think with Megan, and I think who I think with with the rise of women's sports, you guys are kind of coming on the lack of a better term ground floor on this, right? Where you guys are growing as the game is growing with this media apparatus that is now paying attention to women's basketball right now. And I think to your point as a consequence, one of the growing pains of that is a lot of people that aren't watching women's sports talking about women's sport at the highest. level because you see these people, they have these platforms already built in just in general. And in its adjustment, they probably just started watching women's sports maybe a couple of years ago and they maybe not have the infrastructure to do it. And I think that it's going to take, like, as a Monica McNutt, who's, I'm a stand of

Monica McNutt, she knows that as those kind of come into focus and the Andrea Carter's come into focus, right? And Chenet continues her rise. I think we're going to start getting more nuanced discussions on a higher level. level about women's sports in that way. But like, how do you watch the game now? You're retired right now. I don't know if you're coming back. Maybe you're going to, you know, I ask you this every time I see you like, are you going to, are you getting that itch? I guess the, how do you watch the game and how do you keep like the competitiveness of always, me and Raj, always talk

about the retired athlete? How do you keep the competitiveness in like served while you're in this stage? Are you, what do you do? Like, how are, you? How are you doing? Like, how are you? you watching the game, how are you living and breathing the game when you don't have that competitive edge served? Yeah, well, real quick, I'm going to go back. You name Monica McNutt, who I love, Chenet's doing her thing, Andre Carter. Two of those commentators, Monica, Janay. Chenet comes back every now and then for the NCAA tournament. We'll see if she does WMBA. A lot of them get pulled away from women's basketball. Yeah. Because these media companies aren't investing in the announcers that do know women's sports as you. As you

women's sports commentators. They kind of get pushed over to the NBA side at time. So I just want to kind of make that clear that we need them on our side because that's who can tell our stories in the right ways. Anyways, I digress. We need the Roz gold on Woodhays too. We need rise as well. She's been killing it too as well. She has been killing it. And she's been

they've actually been, even like you know, like I said, Chenet O'Brien, like she does NBA a large portion of time. She comes back. Like, she's still involved in the women's game, of course. But I would love I would love for Chenet to be 100% women's basketball. But that's just me. I know she's got to make that money too.

So there in lies the dilemma. Anyways, competitiveness. Talking about this shit, that's what makes me competitive. It hasn't been that hard. Like at times, I miss it. At times, like when I watch, really, I only, the moment where I, like, I struggled, I don't even know if it was a struggle, but the moment where I had to face that the most was when last WMBA season, the 2023 season was the first one I didn't play.

I was cool until the playoffs started. And then I was like, God. damn I want to be out there. Like I really missed it. And then I kind of just got to a place where I was like, wait a minute, I don't want to do any of the things that get me to that point, the grind, the working out, the practicing, the traveling, all the things that make the life of a professional athlete difficult.

I was kind of, I got into a place where I was over that. So I kind of understood like, all right, if I'm not going to do those things, I can't just go out and play in a playoff game. I mean, if that contract existed, sign me up. The Marchan, like, 2019 contract? Yeah. You want to bring me to the playoffs? Sign me up.

I will work out. I will get ready for that. Until that exists. I'm just, I've come to a peaceful place around the fact that you got to grind to get to the playoffs. Because I don't want to grind, I have to be okay with just missing the playoffs forever. And I don't think there's any replacing that. You know, I work out a lot. It's hard to find the competitive stuff.

We'll see. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And who are you, like, is there any of the players that you see now, like the jujus, the Angel Reese's, the Paige Becker's, the Caitlin Clarks? Which one of those are you like, damn, I wish I was like a little younger so I could just like see what I could just see. I can just kick their ass. Like, do you have that in you? Which one of those players, though, do you wish that, like you played with or against?

Like, which ones you were like, I wish that I had just like one more year with them? Like how when Jordan came back and was like, I got, I can get. get back, I can, I could, I can play against the Alan Iversons again, you know? Like, what's that for you with, with this current crop? Who do you wish you could play against? Or with, or with, or with, with and then against? Man, that's tough to choose between all those plays. Man, that's tough.

That's tough one. I think I'd want to play with Juju. I mean, honestly, I'll be just completely honest. I don't want to guard any of them. I think I'd want to play with Juju. I think she'd be really interesting. As a point guard, she'd be really fun to play with. I think she'd be really fun to play with.

I actually feel the same way about Paige and Caitlin. I think for them, I'd more, I'd like to play against them to, like, feel what it is they're doing out there. Because it is different when you're just watching. I mean, I can gauge based on, you know, my years of playing. But, you know, what is it like to have to guard Caitlin, you know, at the logo? What is it like to have to guard a player like Paige that can impact the game in like 50 different ways? More than anything, though, I swear, to be true. More than anything, I would have loved to have played just like in this era in regards to not even, okay, yes, the NIL and yes, just like the excitement of it all, of course.

I wish I could be 25 right now. Oh, God, forget it. Hey, I will say this. The view of Manhattan would look even better than it already does at your place. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you very much, sir. If you were in this era. Yes.

Oh, I know. Oh, I know. Yeah. So for sure, I wish I could play in this era. But the way the game is, I'm like, I was born at the wrong time. Like, I feel like I was born and played in like the equivalent of like 90s NBA. And I'm like, I need to be Warriors 2015, 14, 50. Like, I'm like freedom of movement.

Don't fucking touch me. Let me just do my thing. So to play in that now, which I feel like the game has really trended in that direction for the women as well. I mean, I would love to play now. Like now it's like, I feel like suited for what. my game could have been. You got Sabrina like rookie year. Like what was that like? What was that like? What was that like that's what was that like? What was that like, what was that like? What was that like? You know, pass a baton of the next generation. What did you have those feelings? Like what's like the first game against Sabrina like? Are you like, oh, she's she's the next hot shit. I got to send a message or like how are you feeling with when you guys are playing? What was that like? A little bit of both. So interestingly enough, I did get to play against Sabrina her rookie year, which was the 2020.

bubble season, but like a game, two games later, she messed up her ankle bad, didn't play the rest of the season, like left the bubble or whatever. So while I did get to play and play against her in her very first WMBA game, that was it for her rookie year. So you didn't get like the, you didn't see her kind of evolve within that first year because rookie years are so interesting. There's like you're up down, left, right, you don't know what the hell's happening. But in that first game, what I really noticed about her, she has a relentlessness about her. her that you can't teach. And it's like she just constantly is coming at you in different ways and different ways and just is always there. So even if she comes off a screen and shoots it,

she's chasing after it. And even if your team got the rebound, she's coming out and poking it away. Like there's just a relentlessness to her game. And then what I've seen since, I play against her next year as well in 2021 and 2022. What I've seen since is she's really become so efficient in her three-point shooting that it allows other aspects of her game to open up. That has been a, I mean, you can see it. Everybody got to see it when she shot against Steph. It's something I think in the WMBA we were already knowing. The efficiency and the range, it has allowed her game to to expand. She had this in college where, and like you kind of see this in with like Mahomes and all the greats to be honest. Like Mahomes, like Jordan, Steph, you, the calmness that you have like under

pressure, right? She has it in the WMBA, but I don't know if there's a difference between honing it in college and honing in the WMBA, whereas there's this calmness down the stretch that you get to, right, where everything is going, everything around you is going fast, but you've kind of zoned out. what age do you typically get that specifically as a point guard when you're running a team right like because i would i would say that she is of that special caliber very clearly when do you get the to the point of the game where you're calm in those type of situations and where do you when how far away is she from that on a consistent basis do you think i don't know that there's an age i think you're talking like it's a combination of things i honestly think some people are born with it it's just it is what

it is inside of them. I think for some, it comes with experience. Like a sensing of the moments, right? Yeah. Oh, no, she senses the moment. That's not,

she senses the moment. I think experience helps. I mean, I always say there is, you cannot name me. I mean, there's very few athletes that didn't have some sort of epic fail

before they won. It's just, it's just like, it's how it goes. What was your epic fail? What was your epic fail where you were like, what do you call it? Okay.

What was your first one where you were like, I'm learning, this is the one like, Like the world is ending. This shit is all fucked up. I got to get, I got to, I got to lock back in if I want to get to where I want to get to. What was that first failure for you? Yeah.

So one of them, it comes in the form of an injury. I tore my ACL, my freshman year. So I only played, I really only played three years in college. I played eight games my freshman year and missed the rest of the year. And so that was like too many to red shirt. So I only played three years in college. So that year was, was really hard, rehab, blah, blah, blah. We did, we win my sophomore year.

And then my junior year, epic fail. Epic fail. We're up like 14, 15 at halftime against Notre Dame and the semis. They were really good. So it's not about like getting upset. It's just like feeling like you had control in the game. And then they come and have a huge turnaround end up beating us by double digits. So it was just epic failure.

And that's really what allowed us to go undefeated the next year. And the same, I can tell you stories for days about like losing in the first round and the playoffs in the WMBA, which motivates the next year. or makes you realize things. But in terms of the calmness in the moment, some of that, that can exist and you still lose. Like, it doesn't, not every player wins every playoff series

or every big game or every moment. It doesn't mean you're not playing well. It doesn't mean you're not calm in that moment. I don't wonder if for Sabrina, and really the whole New York Liberty team, I'm sure what happened in last year's playoffs against the Aces, I'm sure it'll be their fuel. Yeah.

It would be my. I'm sure it'll fuel them, right? It'll, it'll just put them on their toes a little bit more throughout the regular season as they gear up to playoffs. And then for Sabrina, I'm just like, is there anything that has more pressure than what she did against Steph? I'd argue that's the most pressured situation. Like, it's like Billy Jean King pressure.

That's a different kind of pressure than just winning a championship. You know, it's funny, I didn't really think about that as like, because in theory, it's an exhibition, right? Like, it's an All-Star game, da-da-da-da-da. But in practice, no athlete takes anything as a, no professional athlete takes anything as an exhibition. I mean, is it an exhibition if it's nationally televised and everybody's tuning in to see your demise?

Is that exhibition? Like, you can't tell me half the people that watched weren't trying to see her fail. I was looking at the prism of All-Star Weekend. And as you know, the NBA doesn't care about All-Star Weekend, at least it's players, right? But like I was looking at the prism of that. But I didn't think about it as like, that could be a moment for her, though, right?

That could be like that. That could be a moment in that way. It's interesting because I did want to get back to that when you referenced the Steph versus Sabrina. Like I'm pretty sure. I mean, you're obviously in league circles. I know a little bit. I think that's going to happen next year, right? Like I think that they're going back to the Bay.

I know Steph wants it. I'm pretty sure Sabrina's representation definitely would want that. And both in the Bay. like, you know, Sabrina's coming home in that way. But how big was that for the game, Sabrina versus Steph in that? And I don't even want to say for Steph to do something like that. But how big of a moment was that, are we going to look at that moment is something that really, when we look at the W&B in five years?

We're like, oh, that was a similar moment and whatever this game is five years from that. Yeah, I think it's saved NBA All-Star. I think you should be, not you personally, the general you, should be, Thanking Sabrina, thanking women. I think a woman's basketball player may have saved NBA All-Star. I think that they should do it at WMVL-Star. A men's player who's not in season, who's not in the flow of his season,

should come shoot against Sabrina or shoot against anybody. WMB All-Stars in Phoenix this year. Phoenix is a vibe. A lot of people love Scottsdale, but it's also an Olympic year, so I don't know. We'll see. I don't know. I don't know.

Let's take a quick break, and I want to talk about the tournament. Okay, we're back with Sue Bird. I want to talk about the tournament. And just, you know, you're doing this, the alt cast again with, with Diana Tarasi. I'm sure, like, the prep is just shots of tequila. I think that's what it comes off as. Is that the, is that the, is that the how the show works? Is that what you guys do?

Is that what we're putting out there? Yeah, you know, we are a, we are a show that has no boundaries, not a lot of rules. And we're, we're really figuring out as we go. So the first year was more of the solo cup five year. Second year was more subdued. This year we might even, I don't know. Actually, I don't know. I can't even talk.

We haven't even, well, you know what? When you guys see it, when we pop up on TV, that'll be the first time D&I discuss it. I just love how Sue. I love Sue just did the thing where she like disagrees like, oh, is it the alcohol thing? And then prove my point on the back end about the preparation. It's like real ones. It's like we just show up. But how do you, when you're now that you're away from the game, like, how do you watch it?

Are you, what are you watching for, especially like, you know, as you're prepping for this? Because like, we make a joke out of it. I know you're prepping by watching, like, most of the games. Like, how do you, as someone like when you're a professional athlete and you're in season, you can only watch so much. You're inundated in the season, but like you watch here and there, oh, this thing happened pregame. Oh, I saw this game. Pregame wasn't getting taped.

But now, like, you have so much more free time on your hands. How do you watch the game and what are you looking for in the intricacies of each game? I watch it more so than anything. I would say like generally I'm watching just as a fan. Like I'm just looking to watch like a good game and be entertained. There's definitely some elements of seeing like who's talented. Who do I think? I think I'm always watching from a WMBA perspective.

Like, oh, could she be a this and the WNBA or that? Or that's like that could be a good role player. This could be this. I think I'm always kind of doing that. At times I'll tap in. to like the X's and O's strategy. Like, you know, every now and then I'm like, give me that remote. And I rewind something.

And I'm like, what were they doing here? I'm usually really disappointed by that, if I'm being honest. So it's kind of a mix. I'm just going to say really quickly, though. I watched the game like, Lasia Clarendon, who is a mutual friend of ours. And it's so annoying because watching with a basketball player, a professional basketball player is so annoying because you guys have to they'll go like stop stop it right there

in front of everyone and make us rewinded and watching the film that's the most I just want to decide to get that off my chest that's just so annoying I really only do it to Megan I try to keep it in-house but yeah not too often but like every now and then for sure but yeah more so anything as a fan I think now oh yeah now that it's March

now that we're getting, it's getting dicey. I'm definitely like way more in tune. Not even just for preparation of the Final Four. I mean, honestly, like, truth is, we barely get to watch the games because we're really focused on interviewing our guests and it's like hard to do both at times. I try to know, like we both try to know enough.

And this year I think we might like lean into the basketball a little bit more. We'll see. But yeah, now that I'm watching the games, like, I'm like, all right, like, what are the, how's Colorado going to guard Caitlin? You know, how is, You know, LSU has a tough matchup. So it's like UCLA has the big kid, Lauren Betts. So it's like, how's that dynamic going to play out?

You know, is Kiki Rice, who's now a sophomore going to elevate her game? She had a great game last game. Is that going to continue? Like, I do start to pay attention more to how things are going to get impacted with the matchups. Does Sue's places help? Like, I've watched your, I don't think people realize how much charisma Sue Bird has. Like, you have the sneaky charisma? where you only do it if you fuck with somebody.

But like if you see, you slide it in. But like we all get to see it all suits places. But it's connected you to the game in a way, right? Like as you're growing it, I watched the, I watched the Caitlin Clark episode in the beginning. And you're like milking cows with Gino R&M.

How was that kept you within the game? Like, how was that been? And also, how's, how's Gino doing in his older age? Is he softer now? Like, what's the vibe? What's he? Softer, like, like, is he more cuddly now? Is he more cuddling now?

that he's older, like he's switched to 70? He's a grandpa. He is 70 now. He just turned. Yeah. I don't think he's soft as a coach. I doubt it. I haven't been to practice.

Something tells me he's still finding ways to get the like, yeah, to get the sharp wit out, if you will. But I'm sure overall he's had to calm down a little bit. I think that's just natural with age. But he was, listen, he did his thing with those cows. He was milking those cows like I've never seen. My favorite part of it was, you trying to like not, it's just like this thing. It felt like you were not trying to disappoint Gino because he's your coach.

You're also not trying to get them Jay's dirty in a barn. And you were completely misdressed for going on a farm, which is hilarious. And then you're trying to make good television. So I really empathize with you on that one. It was a lot happening. At one point, like, it didn't make the cut. But at one point, I'm like under the cow. I've got like my hands on the udders, the little teats, if you will.

I'm doing my thing. I'm trying to milk the cow. And we're filming all of a sudden, there was like a door right by us. All of a sudden, this one cow just like breaks through the door. Not like, it wasn't dangerous. They weren't like charging us. But it was like, fucking alarming. I was like, whose cow is that?

It reminded me of Jamie Fox's stand up when he's like, it's like, it's like when you see Mike Tyson in the club. He's like, oh. Yeah. Whose pit is that? That's how I felt. I was like, who's cow? I played out of your pit.

Is that your pet? Is that your cat? Is that your pet? That's your pit? it out of me. So that didn't make it. But yeah, so that was, it was interesting. But Suis Places was great. Why did you cower? Why you, why you, why did you, why did you cower to Caitlin Clark on the, on the shooting contest? Why did you, how come you wasn't, I was, making, I was, I actually, you want to be honest. I want you to be honest. I need to get in your

back, because I was disappointed. I was like, why. I messed up the whole script. I messed up the whole script. It was supposed to be, it was supposed to be. So the fun thing about this is I'm actually, I can lean into self-deprecation. You know, like the one with A Rique, I'm wearing all the Notre Dame gear, talking about that, like, taking my hits. It's, it's like, I love it. I actually have a lot of fun with that. So with Caitlin, it was actually meant to be that I was going to be shooting and she was going to be rebounding and I was just going to be missing and missing and missing. And then I was going to say to her like, oh, clearly I've, you know, clearly I'm retired, washed up, but I have somebody that can take you and then jimmer walks in.

But when I went out there, you know how it is? Like, what am I going to miss on purpose? And I was just making them. So I was making them, making them, making them. So they were, They had to, like, figure out a way where I was like, okay, even though that just happened, I'm still going to bring in Jimmer. Okay. I was just disappointed that you didn't participate. It wasn't a three-person competition. That's why I was pissed off about that. It wasn't about me.

It wasn't about me. It was my face-up. It was called Sue's Places for a reason. It's about you. You duck the smoke. I don't know how to feel about that. But is television your bag? Is that what you're going to do?

Is that what you think you're going to do? Like, what are you, you're just dabbling in everyone? Where I don't get anywhere I fit in. I like it. I think there's sometimes, there's some places in which I belong in front of the camera. I think Sue's Place is a good example. I had a lot of fun doing that.

I would do it again in a heartbeat. I think there's other situations where I belong behind in the production area and that kind of thing. So I'm just trying to find that balance. So let's get back to the tournament. This is obviously what we talked about throughout this podcast. The growth of the game is at an all-time eye. But there's some drama in this one, in this, going into this tournament, not only like, if I want to see Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, but like, there's this Kim Mogi shadow that is just over the game.

Like, what is in the bat in the W community or the women's basketball community? Like, is it, is there a brace for what's about to happen? Like, what are, what is the overall vibe that's, because this is it's been lingering over. She's been lingering over this tournament in general. And then like, this article that's about to come out just seemed to put gasoline on the spotlight on her. What is the community, how is the community bracing what's the unknown of what's about to happen? Yeah, I mean, I think that's it. It's unknown. I think we've all understood for a long time. And by we, I mean players, particularly in the WMBA. Because obviously, listen, college is four years. WMBA is hopefully 10, 15, 20. So for a really long time, like, we've all had conversations where we understood.

Like once this takes off, because I think we all believe at some point women's basketball would have this moment, once it takes off, like, I mean, it really is more money, more problems. Like, that's just how it goes. The more, the bigger you are, the bigger the league is, the bigger the players are, the bigger coaches become, right? The more presses involved, the more journalists come. The more stories are like, the more deep dives are done, I should say, I'm from a story standpoint. Like, that's the reality of the world we live in. You can't really avoid it.

it's a good thing because it means it's blowing up. And then it's something you got to deal with on the other side. So you're not going to get away. It's going to get called out. This is your first big potential scandal, it seems like. Or whatever it is. We don't know what it is. I mean, on this scale, on this scale, we have no idea what it is.

I'll tell you what we all know. We all know what the definition of Barber Streisand effect is now. Right? Right. We all know that. I mean, I went to, I got to get to Googling quick. And I was like, oh, yeah, Barber Shrizen effect. That's exactly what's happening because everybody now is tapped in.

No, like we've had, like, I think the good thing is it's like if something bad has happened or is happening, you need to, that needs to get dug up, right? Similar to what happened in women's soccer, I mean, literally just, what, a year and a half ago when all the things were coming out around the sexual abuse and harassment in terms of the coaches, players, the power dynamic, all that. Like that needed, it needed to come out. So similar to that, I think what's, I think what people. aren't realizing who are new to this space is this has been hanging over Kim Mulkey since Brittany Griner was in college very shortly after BG left. I believe Kate Fagan wrote a piece about Kim and things she said to BG. I want to say Kim even tried to get Kate fired at that point.

So it's not really, I think the world of women's basketball is not necessarily surprised by this. Well, I mean, she's an interesting figure in that way, right? Like, you talk about the British Griner situation. She's very, she's a polarizing figure. And she's charismatic, yo. That's the thing. She'd be getting fits off, but she'd be saying some wild stuff just about like,

she gets fits off, but we'll say some wild stuff that is counterculture to what somebody would think the, the, the WMBA's values are, or women's college basketball's values are, right? Like, so if there was ever a person that was going

to get anything done or anything. If there was ever a person that was going to be this big figurehead that would a story that we don't know what's coming out, it would be her. I just, I, it's, I'm interested to see whatever it is, what the response is going to be about with her because she's so polarizing. And I just, I don't know what that will do to the game, right? Like, I don't know how, what's, what is, what do you, what do you think, knowing that you don't know what's going to happen?

what do you think it's going to do for her reputation and where she is right now because there's a lot of people that don't like Kim Moki as you are well aware of. What does that do to her and by extension LSU who is a great team at this point? What does that do for this league? Man, I don't know.

I mean, it depends what's in the article. You know, it really depends. I mean, there's a lot of like theories as to what it's going to be, you know, I think what I've heard the most is just that and she kind of alluded to it when she made her statement that, you know, former players of hers have been contacted and interviewed and that kind of thing. So you assume it's going to be from the player's perspective, which, you know, is never good.

When players come forward, it's usually doesn't turn out well for the coach because it's likely, you know, I don't want to speculate. So we'll just leave it like that. But yeah, yeah, but like, yeah, I mean, this has been, I guess the thing that is a bum, for the current players at LSU is the timing. Like this has really been been brewing for a couple of years. But drug, like, this is life. This is what it is.

The timing is probably chosen for a reason on the Washington Post side of things. And this is my money more problems. Like this is what it is to have the limelight on you. But yeah, if you're a player currently, you're going to get asked a lot of questions. Maybe they'll wait until after the tournament. I don't know. But it's another thing added to your plate for sure as a current player.

And LSU's been through a lot this season. Like, you think about the Angel Reese. Like, it just seems like a long time ago, but even with the Angel Reese, the situation that we didn't really get much clarity on to start the season. But now we're going to this. It's been a really polarizing LSU season. I mean, we're all going to find out because of the Barber Shries in effect. Yeah. She didn't have to say anything.

It's a wild thing. She did not have to say anything. It's not a thing. I'm going to put you on the spot here. How do you see this tournament kind of to push you like coming to bear? Like are you as does LSU pull it out right now? Like are they the team that they seem like the team to beat. But then I see, but Iowa has has had.

You're missing. Iowa is right there. What am I missing? Nah. You're missing South Carolina. Uh, yes. Yes. They're the,

that it's, this is, you know, listen, I'm always going to pick the Yukon Huskies. I picked them in my brackets. Oh my God. Oh my God.

The Yukon propaganda lives. Not propaganda. As an alum, I'm allowed in my bracket to have my bias show. On your show, asked a question, it is South Carolina's tournament to lose. There's no doubt about that. They've been the best team all season. Their best player is their bench. Don't get me wrong.

Their most impactful player is probably Camilla Cardozo. Like, with and without her, it's a different impact on the game. and they look different. I think getting pow-pow in the transfer portal was big for them, gives them shooting. Raven Johnson has stepped up. So you can say a lot about their starters, but what they bring it off the bench,

that's where they come with that second wave. And it's just like, so this is their tournament to lose for sure. I think with Don Staley just doesn't get enough credit for just how to, it's kind of like the Belichick effect where it's like he, someone that has been able to. to win with totally different lineups on the fly. I mean, it's even

different than Bill Belichick because she's doing, she's in college, right? Where you go from Asia Wilson and then you kind of just evolve on these teams and South Carolina is right in the hunt. They're kind of like pushing like Yukon territory where, you know, like they can year and year out, they're right there. I think Don Staley should get it to do more credit.

I don't know, 11 rings. Last time I checked. Eleven rings is kind of the... You know I did that on purpose. You don't absolutely know I did that on purpose. No, listen, I got, I was, I went to, I went to South Carolina, I stood on a ladder with Don, I twirled a net, I sang the fight song. How did that feel just to be, like you've had to be, okay, you've had to be a traitor

a few times during, during Sue's places. I don't have that, like the, especially the longer you're away from college. When the, when the, when you caught, listen, when Yukon was on TV the other night, playing against Syracuse and KK Arnold hit a three with like, 40 seconds to go up six. I was on my couch jumping. Like, when the ball gets tipped in Yukon's playing, yes. And I'm just expecting it.

Did you bring your sweatsuit to New York? Does you bring the sweatsuit to New York? Tune into the phone for you, you'll see. Let's get it. But like when it comes to talking about the game and assessing and seeing all the things, like, and then just like honestly, being in social settings, like with friends, like Tennessee people who I used to hate, where then became my teammates. In the WNBA, Dawn, Dawn was my Olympic teammate, was my Olympic coach, someone that I've been in the same circles with for forever.

And now she, yeah, she's the South Carolina coach. I don't care. Okay. Like, I don't look at Don any different. I don't look at that. I step on these campuses. I feel happy that they're killing it. I don't feel that way.

It's like the further you get. And it's funny because I think people assume we feel that way. Like, I've had people from other schools kind of approach me like, oh, I'm sure you didn't like it when this school won, huh? And I'm like, no, bro, I actually didn't care at all. My life went on. It didn't bother me that Yukon lost. Like, it just doesn't. So it's interesting.

But with that, South Carolina is, is, you know, they're going undefeated now in the regular season regularly. So I see where you're going with that. They're getting that buzz a little bit. They're getting that buzz. All I'm saying. If I literally was going to bet, I didn't actually do any proper betting this particular March Madness.

If I was going to bet, yeah, like I'm picking South Carolina. Well, when you think about Yukon, like in this. error right now right like when i grew up like you guys were mashing all the time like even just even up until a recent thing how do you know gino's getting older like how do you guys adjust to this new error right now especially when you guys have a figurehead that is like how are you how do you how do you see that happen not my problem not my problem i don't know it's going to be hard i don't know anybody who wants to take that job once coached rama retired would you ever would you ever coach no all right same thing like when pat summit rest in peace was no longer with the university tennessee who wanted that job

That's a hard job. Those jobs are hard. Who wants, you know, those are tough jobs. I will give you, like, my one little hot take, which is to say, like, what I think is interesting about South Carolina right now is, or interesting about the world of women's college basketball. I think the teams of the past, like you talked about at the top, whether it's my, my era, Diana's era, Maya Moore, Stewie, those are Yukon. Then you've got BG's era at Baylor, Candice Parker at Tennessee. Skyler Diggins at Notre Dame. I know they didn't win, but Skyler Diggins at Notre Dame. All those teams would likely dominate college basketball in this year.

But South Carolina is the one team where it kind of crosses eras where I'm like, okay, they'd be a problem in a lot of those errors too. Let's quickly talk to NBA before I get you out of here. Where do you, is this going to be, do you sense that this W season is like going to build off of it? Like, where do you see this type of season in term of engagement for this one? Like, are we prime for another Aces Liberty rematch? That's on the table, obviously. There's the momentum from what is happening with this current class that's going on.

Like, where do you, how do you see this? And it's an Olympic year as well, right? Like, where do you see that this W season kind of unfolding? How do you see it going? So I think women's basketball in general has, throughout the course of the last 20-plus years, has had different moments. We've had, you know, different classes come in. Like when B.G. Skyler and Elena Deladon came into the league, it was the three to see.

And that had a lot of excitement. And we've had storylines within the WMBA, Minnesota Links and the sparks, you know, playing each other in the finals multiple years. Like these all have existed. And kind of what you were just saying, this is one of the few times where it's all happening at the same time. And then multiply because of the women's college basketball platform and because of the Caitlin Clark effect. all of it is happening at the same time. So now we have storylines in the rookie class. People are going to be tuning in to watch Caitlin, whether they want to see her succeed or fail.

I don't know, but people are going to be tuning in to watch it. They're going to see how she translates. Some people think this. Some people think that. Let's tune in and see. Then you have the Aces who are trying to go back to back to back. The three Pete has only been done by the Houston Comets. So that's the storyline.

Will the New York Liberty, three agency, you know, New York, New York did okay. A little, a little, a little, little Chicago bulls and the aces right now. They're a little, a little bit. Their ACEs are interesting, man. They're fun. They have, Becky has done a really unique thing,

which is take a team that is like, by far, arguably the most talented team, definitely the most talented starting five. By far, well, not by far, but because they were,

they were defending champs, they'd already proven themselves. And she's somehow taken this team that is at the, top of everything and still made them play and act like underdogs or like they've been slighted or like people didn't think they were going to win she's I don't know I'm like whatever you're doing is working because that's how I see it because sometimes they're like nobody thought we could do this and I was like I feel like everybody picked you to repeat but but somehow

yeah I picked them to repeat and that's where it's like but they but they keep that chip and that's hard when you win that chips can fade so somehow they've kept it um But yeah, I was just saying, like, the Liberty did, like, they're still talented as hell, but I don't think they made as many moves as they would have wanted. And to me, a team that people aren't going to talk about a lot, it's like, Phoenix Mercury, they did all right. They did all right. Hey, Seattle Storm did all right, too.

Shout out to the home news, but Phoenix Mercury, they did all right. And if BG is playing at a certain level, it's still BG. She's still 6.8. She's still 6.8. So it'll be, I'm, like, excited. It's going to be a lot. Speaking of your Seattle storm, I have to give a big shout out to Marie and Tenley, who are on the fifth floor of my building, who are this beautiful couple. They fly up to Seattle for games all the time.

They're actually flying up to Portland for the, was the Sweet 16 right now? Like, they're huge. They want to know, how long is it going to take for there and your, well, I think Tenley's an Aces fan. So this is more for Marie. what is it going to take for the Seattle storm to get back on top and get back to the championship level that you guys are accustomed to being on? What's going to happen? What's needed for your storm? What's going on?

Listen, they already did, you know, what technically started out last year is, I don't know if it really was a rebuild, because it kind of just happened that way. I retired. Yes, your fault. Your fault. Yeah, my bad. they already kind of started to rebuild. I think that gave Jewel, like this unique opportunity to take over, take ownership, become the player that she already was, but now she got to flex muscles in a different way.

And then this offseason, they added Skyler, they added NECA. So right now you do have like a version of a big three. And that's not to top, that's not big three. I feel like a lot of times nowadays gets like translated. or interpreted into super team. I'm not even going in the super team conversation. Big three to me is just you need, you need three legit players

in order to contend for a championship. You need them. I can't name a championship team in the WMBA that only had two. And then like the rest you kind of hope, no, you need like three sturdy big time players. And then from there you build. So the storm now has the hard part,

which is the getting those three, and now they can build from there. I tell you what? And I'm just going to, Before I get to my last question, I just say watch out for the Bay Area WBA team is all I'm saying. Okay. That might ruin the plans.

You think all the Oakland, you think Chelsea Gray, Sabrina are going to be like, see ya. They're going to come back. I mean, I'm going to put it on right here. Hey,

WBA blogs, you can, you can aggregate this. Sabrina Yinescu is coming to the Bay Area at some point. She is not going to finish her career in the Liberty uniform. I will tell you that right now. The Bay Area, do New York?

city, boy, bye. Anyway, anyway, to see, this is the East Coast buys. It's the East Coast by. No, I think, I think, no, this is, and I'm going to give you the reason why. I mean, the, the, the, the, this is why I think that it's, it's, it's, I think subred, I think off top Sabrina is going to come back home. Just in just, that's just my view on it. Off top. That's going to happen. But the thing that, I think that the, the, the, uh, the, the Bay Area team has over everybody in the W, it's just

the influx of cash and resources. And we kind of saw that with the Aces last year, right? And Joe Lekob is not getting into this if he's not going to try to win a title, right? And they're going to have, he's going to, everything is going to be first class. They have the practice facility in Oakland. They are going to just continue to build up on that. And the Bay Area, if you were to, no disrespect to New York and, you know, all disrespect to East Coast, you know how it goes. But when you think about if you were to create a market for the W,

it would be the Bay Area just in terms of demographics, in terms of influx of cash, in terms of all those things. So I think in the next three years or so, I think you're going to see, I think you're going to see the Bay Area team upend all of the W,

rest of the W's plans. Yeah, I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think coming into the WMBA now and kind of starting from scratch in a sense, like they're getting to build it in 20, well, obviously they've started to build it already, but technically they start 20-25. They get to learn from the past,

maybe even past mistakes. And they got Kimberly Veal. They do got Kimberley-Ville. And they got Kimberly Veal in the fall. Like, I'm not betting it gets Kimberly Veal. But where'd she come from? It doesn't matter. We're talking about the Bay right now, too.

I was just saying her old end. But she didn't come from Seattle in terms of that. But she started with the storm. Shout out. Kim Beal. No. So they're like uniquely positioned to like, do amazing. I still think the CBA's about to likely, I mean, I have no inside information there,

but I would guess it's going to get opted out of. I think that's going to change Sally's structures and things and it's going to be a whole new world. So because of that, I think you might be on to something. The Vague team's going to be up to something. You might be on to something. Last question, though, is there any hope for my Los Angeles sparks right now? Because I'm going to give you, I'm going to, let me just say real quick. I'm just disappointed in like, this is me talking not you. agree or disagree. I think LA has been such a bad market for the sparks in a lot of ways just because they have to play

in so many different places and it's just really hard to get like in a place like Seattle. Like you know where you're going to practice. You know you're going to play and all those things. And I'm kind of like losing. I don't hope on my sparks right now just because of those reasons. And also just like I just I'm not really, I know they have a new front office person, but I haven't been excited with the output lately. So it's a

Can you give me some level of hope of what's going to happen with the sparks? Sorry to hear that for you. I don't have anything to add. I think, well, listen, you've got the number two pick. Who are you picking? Who are you picking? Who am I picking? I saw Canbrink play.

I really love Cambrink. If they definitely need a front court player. I saw her. I don't know if she's going to, you would know better than I, but I saw it against Cal and she kicked Cal's ass. but I'm curious to see if she's going to have the strength immediately to play in the W. And if she's going to, if I want to win right now, do I pick Cam Brink? Just because I, safe pick.

No, no, more than a safe pick. I would probably pick Cam. I think Cam, so there's things you can't teach, right? Like, height, mobility. You can get better from a mobility standpoint, but height, mobility, quickness. Cam has that in a 6-4-6-5 body. And so to me, she has to add to her game. She has to add to her game offensively.

But she has some things you can't teach. And in the world of basketball today, fours kind of dominate, especially women's basketball if you're versatile, but regardless, like the four-player has become so important. And so if you have a four-player that's versatile, that can pass, shoot, defend, block shots, that's but but you could make an argument that rickia jackson could be that player at a tennessee and her motor is crazy so you can make arguments i think i think cam is is is who i would take though okay all right okay jess will kill me if i don't if i don't plug this right man you're on yeah

give me give me give me uh 45 second pitch on in the clutch and why we need to watch it um your documentary that is coming out that you just premiered on sundance but yes you yes Yeah, the pitch. Yeah, it's a documentary on my entire career. It started out as covering my retirement year, which was potentially going to be 2021, finished my last game, lost to Phoenix in the playoffs at home, did an interview on court with Holly Row. The fans started chanting one more year, so I couldn't go out. I couldn't go out. I had to come back for a second year. And this is really a story about that final year, but really about my career. And given where women's basketball, well is, I think there's always been a hunger for understanding our stories, but given where it is now,

I think it's a really cool way for people to tap in. And, you know, my career kind of parallel path, the growth of the WMBA in a lot of ways. So for people that, that weren't paying attention before, it's a really good way to catch up on everything. When can we see it? When is it coming out? It'll come out for like rental or purchase on March 29th. You can do it on Apple TV, Amazon Prime. And then we'll have more announcements out. All right. There you go. Growing the game.

Thanks, Sue. We do this every year. I'll see you next year. Thanks again for coming on, man. That is Sue Bird on Real Ones Part 2. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fanduel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler, or visit Fanduel.com slash RG in Colorado,

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