The Ringer NBA Show - Is There a Good Defensive Strategy for Nikola Jokic? Plus, Harden Puts the Celtics in a Blender | The Answer

Episode Date: May 2, 2023

Seerat and Michael begin by breaking down Nikola Jokic’s MVP-level performance in the Nuggets’ win over the Suns in Game 2 of their second-round series. They express concern over the shot and usage rate for Phoenix’s big three and speculate on their ability to come back from 0-2. Then Seerat issues an apology to the Denver fandom for overlooking their potential before the playoffs (19:26). Next they shine a light on James Harden’s master class versus the Celtics and discuss whether Monday night was the biggest Sixers win since the days of Allen Iverson (31:50). Hosts: Seerat Sohi and Michael Pina Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mac Jones is ripped. Matt Patricia's calling plays. The Celtics are title favorites. And The Ringer has a new Boston show. I'm Brian Barrett, host of Off the Pike, the show covering all things Boston sports. I'll have shows multiple times a week covering your favorite teams and with your favorite ringer and local guests. Plus, maybe Bill will stop by to rant about the socks. Follow off the pike with me, Brian Barrett, now on Spotify.

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another special Monday night edition of The Answer. We are coming off two pretty great games here. We're going to start with, we're going to talk about the Sixers a little bit later. The Sixers pulled off an incredible win against the Celtics, really against all odds and one game one. And the Nuggets, the Nuggets have a 2-0 lead against the Sons.

The Sons are in big trouble. The Sons tried to, the Sons tried to suppress Nikola Yokic in the best way that you could ever suppress Nikola Yokic, which is by going single coverage on him. worked out a little bit earlier in the game, but he finished with an MVP-esque 39 points, 16 rebounds, five assists. So he did get his guys involved a little bit.

What did you think of this game, Michael? I'm waiting for Yokic to get exposed in the playoffs. Everyone told me it was going to happen all season long. 39.16 rebounds, 42 minutes. This was the type of game that, I mean, the Nuggets, everyone assumed that the Nuggets could not win a game like this, where they hold the Phoenix Suns to 87 points. And KD missed a lot of shots that KD normally hits. Chris Paul got hurt. We're definitely going to talk about that, I assume, in this conversation.

And, yeah, it was a masterful performance by Nicola Yokic. single coverage. I mean, it's funny when you look at Phoenix's rotation right now, which is just really gruesome stuff, but they're playing three centers, Aiton, Biombo, and Jack Landale, and like, they need all of them to stop this dude. And I don't know, he's, in my opinion, the MVP, my opinion, the best player alive, and tonight he showed it. I'm going to let you get on the soapbox today just because the second half of the podcast is going to be really difficult for you. And just,

and just, you know, I don't, I didn't vote for him for MVP, but I think, I think this performance definitely highlights why,

you know, there was no wrong choice for the MVP this year. And it also, it completely cuts into the argument against Yokish for MVP, which is that like he can't create on his own in the same way

that a guy like Joelle and Bede can, where you see in a game like this, where if you give him the same type of coverage, not to say that, you know, Joel ever gets single coverage these days. But if you give him 30 shots, he'll give you 39 points. On a different night, he might give you a little bit more even. But yeah, he was just, he was incredible tonight. There were very few answers to what he was doing.

Aitin started off the game with a pretty good stop on him. He kind of like he got him going to his left and got him under the rim at a really bad angle and he kind of just ended up shooting it under the rim. And it was like, it was one of those shots that wasn't recorded as a block, but it might as well be. And I was like, oh, okay, this might work. And it kind of gave me flashbacks a little bit to the Suns Nugget series in 2021, the COVID year.

But that year, of course, there was no Michael Porter Jr. There was no Jamal Murray, who also had a really, really tough game, 315. You know, he's just, Jamal's kind of like that. You know, sometimes he's going to just go off. And sometimes he's going to have these really streaky nights. Michael Malone said going into the 4th. quarter that he was just putting way too much pressure on himself that he just, you know, kind of need to get out of his head. Remember, there's so many other ways that he can contribute.

But that is, that is like the Jamal Murray story. We've watched this for a really long time. That's just kind of the guy that he is. It's a little bit electric. Honestly, I find it fun. I imagine it's not that fun for him, but it's just one of those things where you never really know which version of him that you're going to get. But he is kind of like, he is turned being like a microwave scorer into an all star and sometimes all NBA level art. And then you sometimes get a night like this too. But he was also, man, like the sons, the sons have really struggled with getting production out of like pretty much anybody when you consider the fact that, you know, their bench is what it is. And also that, you know, they're not getting it.

They're not getting what they would expect out of Kevin Durant. Chris Paul. Jamal was doing a great job on him. And I feel like Devin Booker is pretty much the only guy for the sons throughout the entire playoffs, but especially these two games against Denver where you're like, okay, you actually kind of. consistently know what you're going to get from him. Yeah, book was phenomenal tonight. I'm just looking at like the minute totals for him, like 45 minutes again. Kevin Durant, 45 minutes again.

They combine for doing math on the fly here, so bear with me, 56 shots, I think. Did I do that correctly? Like, they are the whole team. And I think they made a concerted effort tonight to balance out the math problem that they had in game one with not taking basically any threes. KD and Book alone combined to take 20 threes, and the role players just missed everything. I thought that just like the reason I picked the nuggets in the series in six was I think it's a two, three, three and a half player team right now. You need seven guys you can rely upon. And I like my two. I like

KD, I like book, and then Aiton sometimes, but not a very consistent big man. And CP, you know, part of the risk in making the KD trade is that one of these dudes is going to get hurt. And CP pulls his groin, does not return. I think that that could be a massive injury for the same. We don't know right now as we're recording how long he's going to be out. But that's like the big, or the 1B storyline, I think, coming out of this game is his injury beyond just how well the nuggets played defensively. But what do you make of the Sons without Chris Paul? If Chris Paul can't go if Chris Paul is impaired, because you look at this roster, the campaign came back from his whatever injury he had that kept him out for the past few weeks and was really rough. like extremely tough minutes from campaign.

He just did not like ready to play. You know, Moni is throwing Ish Wainwright out there. He's leaning on Damien Lee, who was on the Warriors last season, the title team and just like didn't play. He wasn't in their rotation. So it's just such a thin team.

But what do you make of the Chris Pauldry? Like how catastrophic is this? Yeah, this is kind of the structural issue with putting together a super team, especially a super team that leans heavily towards it's perimeter oriented stars. You know, I think super teams of the past, you had the Miami Heat with LeBron

and Chris Bosch and Dwayne Wade, and those guys could do other things and actually specialize at doing other things. Like Chris Bosch specialized at being a rebounder. He turned himself into an incredible shot blocker and defensive linchpin. LeBron can obviously do everything. We know that.

But when you look at the Suns, you have basically two years of Kevin Durant being one of the best help defenders in the NBA pre-Achilles when he was with the Warriors. And aside from that, you kind of have a team of guys that like to play on the ball. They like to shoot a specific set of shots, which is why, as you alluded to the math problem of like the amount of mid-range shots that they take, they tried to get away from that. But even the way that they got away from that was by calling their own number.

Durant went two from 12 from the three-point line and he in particular now historically has struggled against physicality and we're just kind of seeing that happen again where it feels like if you play him rough and by the way just like the work that Aaron Gordon has done in two games on Kevin Durant like it's just been absolutely incredible

not only has he basically kept him out of his spots he's got him off balance like on every jumper I feel like I've seen it's been like it's been you know it's the Kevin Durant shots that you like to see, but he just doesn't look comfortable at all. And it actually gives me a little bit of a flashback to the first round against the Celtics.

And yeah, so like we now have, we now have like the three superstars being down to three and a team that because you have focused all these assets or traded all these assets for Kevin Durant just doesn't have a lot else going on. So unless you get incredible, like, God

level every night contributions from the superstars, it just doesn't really work. Those guys have to make really difficult shots. Those guys have to get to the free throw line. This team attempted five free throws tonight. Credit to the Nuggets and how they defended. I think one of the big, like, I don't know if it was, I'll call it a mistake,

but one of the big shortcomings for the Clippers in that series was how often they were committing fouls and just putting book, KD, that offense in the bonus repeatedly. Phoenix was a very low free throw rate team throughout the regular season and has been throughout the Chris Paul era. And I think they were second or third in free throw rate coming into this series. And five free throws is just not going to cut it in the NBA playoffs, especially when you shoot six for 31 from behind the three point line. So I really agree with what you're saying about Aaron Gordon's defense. And honestly, shout out to Christian Brown. I always want to call him Christian Braun.

Christian Brown, who I hope makes an all rookie team, just an absolute stud. And the minutes that he gave Michael Malone, guarding KD, to afford the rotation where Aaron Gordon is basically the backup five. And so he needs to come out in the first quarter at some point when Katie's still on the court so he can start the second quarter.

Christian Brown was just great. As good as a rookie could be on Kevin Dore. Rand and again, like Kevin Durham missed shots that he normally would make, but they're tough shots. They're contested. He didn't foul. That's key. So tip your cap to him.

I feel like do we ask the question, you know, the series is, what's the slogan? I'm road team wins on the road. Thank you. I appreciate you. You're a great teammate. Sometimes the series never starts. It's true. It's true.

Is this, what are you thinking about Phoenix's ability to come back in this series? Obviously not having home court and down, 02. right now going back to Phoenix. I mean, a lot of it hinges on Chris Paul. I think that Monty might be able to find a few things in a rotation. I think Landil's, I laugh even saying this, but I think Landale played a sneaky good five minutes. I think you could give him a little bit more time. He played, he had, he had some great offensive rebounds early in that fourth quarter, but that fourth quarter was an absolute disaster for the Suns and they would have gotten some second chance points off of it, but they miss like their first nine shots going. And then, and then he had the Chris Paul

injury. And I think that was actually, that was like the point where the game turned because it looked for a moment like the Sun's game plan might work. You know, like I think they tried to get the nuggets to play on offense a Sun's S game. Like all for the last pretty like the last day or two, we've all been talking about the math problem, right? We've all been talking about how these guys take way too many mid-range jumpers. It just doesn't, it's not viable in this league. And they, went single coverage on Nicola and luckily Jamal just didn't have a very good game but they got the nuggets out of their flow.

They got them especially in the first quarter. They got them to basically just not play in the way that they like to play. I think Yokic had like 16 of their 19 points in the first quarter or something, you know, astronomical like that. You know that's not like the way that he loves to play either. The nuggets end up shooting 25% from three and they kind of get bogged down a little bit. But, you know, they just completely fell

apart in the fourth quarter. So going into game three, Chris Paul is obviously a huge question, but I almost wonder, do you run back the Yokish plan? Because it's much more viable than anything else. I think that's the way that you guard Yokish, but I think the issue is that he's still Yokic. So it's kind of like what it was with Embed in the first round with the Nets, where there wasn't really a viable solution to guarding him. You had to double team him.

But I think in this case, there's no viable solution. you have to play single coverage so that the other guys don't get off. I don't know if it'll necessarily work, but I'm also not completely ready to count them out yet. I think also the role players were specifically bad. I wonder how campaign will be with another game under his belt. I wonder if Tori Craig will hit some shots when he's back at home. Just things like that.

And, you know, I don't like, I very, I'm honestly just very, very confused by the Damien Lee 26 minutes, especially on a night that he went over five. I just hope that that from a rotational perspective doesn't repeat itself. I do have the Nuggets winning this series, obviously, but I don't think that it's necessarily over yet. I think Phoenix could tie it up. It wouldn't stun me. I'm just looking at their roster right now, though,

and I know we're harping on this, but it is a huge deal. It's kind of their identity is just being so top-heavy. Terence Ross doesn't play. Landry Shamit, DNP, T. T.J. Warren, DnP. They trade Darius Arich at the trade deadline for tax reasons for Darius Basley, D&P. Tori Craig gives you absolutely nothing.

Josha Kogi gives you absolutely nothing on the offensive end. He did a good job on Murray, but like catches it in the short role in the fourth quarter, has a four-on-three advantage or a three-on-two advantage. And on one play he found Aiton. On another one, he looked at. I forget who was the low man on the play. Look very confused. Passed it back out to Katie.

Katie, Mr. Contested 3. So these guys are just so passive. And it's just not a, I mean, you talked about the heat earlier. It's like the heat had superstars that were compatible. Absolutely. They also had Shane Battier. They had Mike Miller. They had, I mean, put Mario Chammers on the Phoenix Suns.

Like, they don't have a Mario Chombers. You know what I mean? So really a tough roster going to need insane great shot making to get back in this. It's totally possible. These are really, I mean, two of the top 10 players in the NBA are on their roster. I just think if CP is heard, if CP can't go, it's kind of devastating for how they want to play. And to answer your question real quick, going back to the Nuggets and the defensive strategy with Yokic, I don't necessarily think, like, it worked tonight. by the numbers you could say, for sure.

Guarding Yokic single coverage, I don't know if, I don't think there is a good defensive game plan for him. I don't think you can stop him on offense, period. He'll score single coverage. He'll find guys if you double. I think the way you beat him is with your offense and you force him to defend pick and rolls.

I thought he was really good executing their game plan up to the level, soft doubles, drop in the pain. He was switching it up and he was engaged. Throughout the regular season, he just wasn't engaged. But against a team like this that doesn't go to the rim, which is his weak, that's the weakest part of his game by far is rim protection. He was just letting guys Olae past him.

This team doesn't attack the basket. And I think that if you're just going to shoot jump shots, it kind of plays into his hands and plays into Denver's hands. And I think they're in a really good position to win this series. Yeah, it makes things. a lot easier on Yokic. I think pretty much the only guy for the sons that was getting anything going towards a rim was Booker. You know, Katie kept kind of going to his jumper.

And he was actually probably the only guy that I thought had any level of real luck on Yokic single coverage. But you just can't have him, he can't afford to pick up fouls like that, especially if Chris is going to be out. So that's not really a viable strategy either. And I also imagine that, you know, give Yokish a few more reps. He would suss out the Kevin Durant matchup too. He's just unsolvable. The NBA playoffs are in full swing and you can turn crossovers into cash with Fandool.

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By the way, while we're here, I just need to issue a formal apology. So I'm just going to take... To me? To me? No. No. Okay. Don't make me laugh.

No, I'm kidding. So I, I pick the nuggets to lose in the first round. Devastating. I don't know what the fuck I was talking about. You're better than that. Honestly, yeah. Just really, really bad analysis. really bad analysis on my part.

I hyper fixated on a weakness, which was the Yokic rim protection thing, that they've actually done a pretty good job of mitigating throughout the playoffs. And my whole thing was that, like, what are they going to do with a team that just drives to the rim? Whatever. It was a really bad take.

I just, look, I want to apologize to everyone involved. I was in Denver last week. It's a lovely city. The people there are incredibly happy all the time. I think it's because there's just so much sunshine. Unless you say the nuggets are going to lose in the first round, they're not very happy if you do that. But justifiably so.

And like, you know, just everyone. I want to apologize to Yokic. I want to apologize to his horses. I don't want to apologize to Calvin Booth, by the way, who signed like one of my favorite, one of my favorite under the radar free agency signings that has been talked about a lot now is Bruce Brown, who is just available,

who the Nets, by the way, I wrote about this in the preseason. the nets told Bruce Brown that they were going to resign him and then just didn't. And if you look at the pre-trade nets, which I know, unfortunately, you had to look at quite a bit. That was just one of the most disastrous non-moves that you can make. It's not bringing back one of your best role players who, like, developed a lot under you. But he's obviously like just kind of playing the same spacing situation. It's been awesome for them.

It's been awesome in this series, too. like just he's picked up against everyone you know like Booker Durant and he's just like he's a really good playmaker I love him on the short role and you know also just like the KCP signing as well so yeah the offseason signings I think I think like for a really big chunk of this regular season I was my thoughts on the nuggets were that that they did the best that they could with their offseason signings and mitigated their weaknesses as best as possible but I just didn't

think it'd be good enough. But right now, it's looking like it'll be good enough. And honestly, I love that because this is one of the most fun teams to watch in the NBA. Yokic is one of the most fun superstars. And the fact that these guys could actually be making like a title run at this point is something that just, yeah, it's awesome. I'm really, I'm really happy to see it happen. So honestly, I want to apologize to myself for turning, turning on this team. And I'm flipping completely back on that side. I might even just like become a zealot to like, like, overcorrect a little bit. So I know that you won't be the one to,

uh, to help me kind of get on the right side of things or like, you know, backtrack. I think we'll both be on this train, but I think we'll have, we'll have fun. This is going to be a fun train.

First of all, big of you to apologize. You're a wonderful person. That's what I was looking for. Thank you. Of course. Of course. Uh, the,

I mean, the Bruce Brown signing was amazing when it happened. He just fits this team so perfectly well with how they want to play with Yokach offensively and helps you out defensively. The KCP trade getting him for, I forget everyone who was involved in that. Monte Morris, Will Barton, I believe, went to Washington. I mean, just that's exactly what they needed. If you watch the first round series that they lost against the Warriors,

they just not had anyone who could cover those guards on the perimeter. KCP is one of the best. And tonight he hit, I think one of the, maybe the biggest shot of the game that pull up three with like three minutes to go. He had a lot of big shots tonight. Off a screen. Huge, just a huge game from him. And only took six shots made five of them, didn't miss from behind the three point line.

Yeah, Bruce Brown closed for the Nuggets tonight instead of Michael Porter Jr. Michael Porter Jr. was minus 12. Bruce Brown was plus 12. I just think they can give you a lot of different looks and they can play a lot of different ways with their roster. And it's the exact opposite of Phoenix. Phoenix is so thin. And we thought all year long that Denver was relatively thin compared to some other or the prototypical title contender or actual champion. But when you look at the roster, they can do a lot of different things.

And I think Michael Malone has coached his ass off, frankly, since the postseason started with his rotations and the way he decided to make Aaron Gordon the backup five, I thought was just like a master stroke. And it's really paying off for them. They would have won this game, I think, by a lot more if Jamal Murray was not ice cold for basically the whole game. I mean, he went 0 for nine from behind the three point line. So I think they're just a lot better than the Phoenix Suns. And I'm not ready to call it yet because only 2-0. But I think, again, they're in the driver's seat right now to advance to the conference finals. They're a good spot.

They played eight guys tonight. and let me count this up real quick. The Suns played 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 guys tonight. And I think the eight guys, the three guys that the nuggets brought off the bench, you would, I mean, I think Monty Williams would be dying to have either of them. Shout out Jeff Green, by the way. Just huge dunk. Amazing time.

Again, legend. Yes, incredible dunk. Shout out to the refs for letting Jeff Green play. Maybe that's something that we'll see. This was a loosely refereed game. Let's put it that way. Yeah. Okay, sure.

Yeah. Five free throws is not a lot of free. I just can't get over that number. It's wild. It's not. It's not. You know, I think that they let the guys play. They let the guys play tonight.

I like that. It's playoff basketball. And I think it's just like, yeah, it's a physicality issue that the sons, I don't know if they, I don't know if they have it to get over it. You know, I think like Aiton had a great first half. And then he kind of faded down the stretch, which is kind of like just like the Aiton thing at this point. So I don't really necessarily expect that to go away.

But yeah, maybe he'll have a big game. There are ways. There are ways out of this for Phoenix. But right now, Denver just seems so much more dominant. Like, they've got this thing figured out. I think they've got, they just, they just have so many cylinders they can fire off on offense. And not even all of them have to be firing.

Can I ask you a, like a hot takey type of question? That's what got me into trouble in the first place, but sure. Do you think that the Phoenix Suns? regret the KD trade? See, I was kind of alluding to this earlier when I brought up the trade. When you trade, I mean, look, the post-all-Star season that McKeel Bridges had,

which actually started in the last like five or so games with Phoenix, it was starting to happen. Maybe that's what got the trade done, you know, and you don't have to include Aiton. So there could be something there. But yeah, I mean, I would love, I would just love to have, like, one of the best help defenders in the NBA right now. That would be great.

I would love to just have a body. I would love to have two bodies. I would love to have wings that I can actually play. I would love if I have to have Chris Paul out right now to have the option to go with some sort of crazy, like, four-wing variation that has Aiton in the middle. And Booker basically playing, like, your point guard. I think that gives you a lot more versatility. And versatility isn't always the most important thing in the playoffs, but it matters. matters a lot.

And they... It's important. And they lost a lot of it. I don't know that that wins them this series, though. I don't know what those guys are doing to mitigate the impact of Nicola Yokic. I think, yeah, sure, McKeel probably causes a few more turnovers, right? And I think you can rely on Cam Johnson. But those guys play the same way.

Like, you're not solving the math problem with McAil or Cam. Like, those guys... Man, McHale learned, like, basically from, like, the developmental... tracks of Booker and Chris Paul. Like he, his development has been imitating those guys. Like that team has played that way. I mean, that's why they lost the bucks. So yes, I think it's an interesting

question. I also think, man, like, Kevin Durant could go put 45 on the on the Nuggets head in game three and we'd be like, oh, that was stupid. So I don't know. I'm slightly trolling with that question. Yeah, like

you're giving up a lot of draft. We didn't even talk about the draft equity, of course. But the reason why you make that trade is because if they didn't and Chris Paul pulled his groin and was out, then it's Devin Booker getting double teamed and on every possession. And what are you doing? What's your offense? So, you know, we'll see. Like, I don't really want to second grasp that trade.

It's kind of is what it is. They gave up a lot, a lot of really good players. That was kind of always the thing with any Kevin Durant trade though, right? Like I think that's why it becomes a fair question. You have to give up so much to get him. It kind of took a lot of teams out of that bidding and the sons did it. And I don't think, I mean, I don't know. It's a hard one to look back and say they shouldn't have done.

It's Kevin Durant at the end of the day. And I think it's also hard to make these deals in the middle of the season too. Like a deal for a big three that becomes like this huge sort of hyped up team makes a lot more sense in the office. season when then you can just go get every single aging role player that can play a role and like that just wants to win a ring but just like that's that may be an option for them in the off season that they just didn't have in like obviously the trade deadline they'll have to uh i don't want to make this the obituary for the phoenix sons but yeah it's a major off season for them whenever their season happens to end and uh yeah it's going to be uh just imperative

on them to grab actual versatile players who can compete on the floor in a big playoff game who compliment Booker and KD. And yeah, I don't know. They're in a really, they're in a pickle. They're in a bind right now, I think, as an organization because he's 34 years old. The window here is not open forever. It just isn't. And CP is even older than that and gets hurt all the time. So it could be fascinating. They've got some cards to play. Some players, some contracts to move. We'll see what happens. Maybe they win the series. Maybe they go to the finals and whatever. We can completely change the narrative then. But right now, it's just looking like a very thin team. And James Jones would not have made the trade that

was made, if not for Matt Ishbria becoming the owner. That's been reported. And this is why. Our producer, Ben, shot me a note that I should also apologize to Yolkha's brothers. Incredible oversight. Thank you. I will apologize to his brother. I'll brothers, I'll apologize to his horses. I'll apologize to the ice that Jamal Murray practiced on as a young kid in Canada. I'll apologize to Aaron Gordon's short-lived podcast. I think it was called the Quest for Enlightenment. Apologies all around.

Apologies to Michael Porter Jr.'s YouTube search history. Like to Michael Malone, the grumpiest yet cuddliest head coach in the NBA. I listened to that podcast, the Aaron Gordon's podcast. I listened to almost every episode, I think. I don't know how many there were. I remember listening to a few. It was actually pretty good. For research.

Not for pleasure. Oh, okay. Yeah. For research. What were you researching? Mental health. Did a mental health story last year. Good times.

I thought it was actually pretty good. Interviewed him for it. Yeah. It's just kind of, you know, it's hard to do a podcast when you're in the NBA. I see a lot of podcasts these days where, like, you know, some people will have a podcast in an Instagram bio and I'll have like three episodes. I feel like everyone's tried to start a podcast. It's new media, you know? What are you going to do?

Taking over. Okay. So James Hardin just had a legacy defining. Like, holy shit, shot making game. Like, 45 points on, man, on the likes of Marcus Smart, Jalen Brown. Joelle Embed is out. Game one. The odds makers are basically just like, yeah, the Celtics have this in the bag.

Celtics in five. Like, don't even bother with the Sixers. they were not supposed to win this game at all. Like they probably shouldn't even have been in this game. There were times during this game where I was like, how the hell are they in this game? And the answer to that was always, always James Hardin, who just put on a shooting master class

that the Celtics just decided that they weren't going to have any answers for. They weren't going to come up with any answers. Tough. It was tough. Hardin was amazing. He was vintage. I have some numbers here for you. James Hardin's effective field goal percentage in this game was 68.3. That was 22.4% above his expected effective field goal percentage based on the shots he took and how closely they were contested and all that.

That is just off the charts insane shot making. He had 61 pick and rolls, which was his fifth most in the game this season. He had the mid-range cooking. He was hitting stepbacks. The stepback midi was going. I thought that we were going to get to lead today's show with an appreciation of Grant Williams. He gets subbed in the game, surprisingly.

He's been out of Boston's rotation forever. And James Hardin just immediately calls this man up for a screen, brings him to the mid-range, hits a step back over, and Joe Mazzula's like, yeah, you got to come out of the game. So Graham Williams did not get back in the basketball game after that, which was a shame. Boston's defensive, they switched everything up. Like, they literally switch screens.

They dropped a ton. He had pull up threes over. What I thought was lazy drop coverage for most of the game, especially in the first half. He hunted Sam Hauser. He hunted Grant on that play that I mentioned. He hunted Malcolm Brogden. He cooked Jalen Brown multiple times, put everybody in a blender.

Marcus Smart couldn't do anything with him. Derek White had a terrible game, period, and wasn't really stopping any. buddy. Honestly, I didn't know he had this in him. Did you, did you, like, how shocked do you? No, I don't think any of us walked into this game and we were like, oh, James Hardin is going to have the game of his life. And the 76ers, coached by Doc Rivers, are going to pull off this upset without Joelle Embedde, who has, aside from being the best player on the team, always been the adults in the room and the adults on the court. and the one guy who is like pissed off when you don't get an offensive rebound

or when you miss a defensive rotation Yeah, I didn't see this coming I didn't see this coming That's why this is like this is how you erase your pass You have games like this that you have to win And if the Sixers go on and win this series We are going to remember this James Harden performance And it was really cool to watch

So the first against the Nets in the first round I think like the one concern was just how James was playing underneath the three point line. He was not getting to the rim. I think I think the Sixers one shot at the rim in the half, one shot at the rim and the half, by the way. I'm just going to repeat that. That was they shot once they got, they made one shot at the rim, the half. Okay, everyone's got that, right? Wild.

It was when he was when he crossed Jalen Brown around the free throw line and got all the way of the rim. I mean, I think everything else for the Sixers was basically mid-range shots did not see that coming from a Darry team. Half of their shots this game came from mid-range. And a lot of that was James Harden. A lot of was Tobias Harris, too. But yeah, just this evolution in his game, if he can hit that shot, it just adds a different layer. And obviously he can hit that shot. But there was this one possession where Malcolm Brogden, who was the best James Hardin defender,

who should have been defending him from pretty much the first quarter. or on. He should have been, like, you might as well just start, like, if it was later in the series, you start Malcolm Brogden for the sake of defending James Harden. It is not close how much better a defender he is on, like, on James Hardin than anybody else in the Celtics. I know it sounds weird to say because, you know, they have Marcus Smart, they have Jalen Brown, they have Derek White, they have Jason Tatum.

Trust me, guys, Malcolm Brogden is the single best James Harden defender. We've known this pretty much the entire regular season. I don't know why it wasn't the first adjustment that was made. I'm like a little bit confused by that. On the possessions that he was switched on to him, you kind of saw why, but there was one where Malcolm Brogden is backpedaling, assuming that James is going to the rim and he just pulls back with a midi. And it's just really tough because he's so strong. And when you combine, when you combine strength with having a good midrange game, it just adds a new dynamic to pretty much every offensive player. I think it's the way that Kauai has been able to be so steady and don't.

nominate when he's been healthy because the three-pointer just has too much variance, right? Like when you absolutely need a shot, you don't necessarily want to go to that. I think, like, you know, we've seen the worst end of that with the hardened rockets. But just having this shot, it just, I don't know, like, it gives James Hardin a go-to move that I actually trust in the postseason, you know? He was five for eight on long twos, six for 13 on non-corner three. So he did dice up the Celtics from behind the three-point line as well, especially on the go-ahead three that he made with,

I don't even know how much time was on the overall Horford, on a semi-controversial decision by the Celtics to just switch that, put Horford on him instead of sending to his way, when you could have doubled, you could have forced a pass to someone like PJ Tucker who didn't take a shot in this basketball game. Just something to note down in crunch time for the Celtics defense. On that note, Jared Dubin tweeted this during the game. So I don't know at what point in the game this was, but it was before the Horford shot.

16 direct picks where Hardin was running pick and roll against Horford, he generated 28 points. So yeah. Is that even mathematically possible? If you're hitting like every possible three-pointer out there, it is. Robert Williams only played 20 minutes, by the way. Yeah, this was not Rob Williams' game. We'll see what happens. You know, James Hardin played a great game.

I think the story beyond just how great everyone on the Sixers shot the basketball, like as a team, I think they were 50, 44, 100 was, that was their shot splits, I believe. And Paul Reed hit four major free throws down the stretch to shout out to him. Melton was just absolutely on fire in the first half and kept them in the ball game. Tobias Harris isolated a little too much for my taste and I think Doc Rivers' taste probably

but he came through. He hit that straightaway three that when Horford was dropping Hardin drove kickback to Tobias knocked it down and Boston's coverage was just totally busted on that. that's not definitely not what was supposed to happen.

I feel like the Celtics, we should be criticizing them a little bit more than we are just solely praising Harden, Hardin played great, and the Sixers made shots. But like, the Celtics still should have won the game. Like, I feel like down the stretch especially, one of their problems this entire season really has been how they slow down and get bogged down offensively in crunch time. and there were two plays that come to mind for me where Jalen Brown has an opportunity to attack and transition off a miss. That's his sweet spot as a basketball player. If the pain is open and he's dribbling up the floor,

he usually goes right to the basket. And he dribbled out with, they were up four with three minutes to go, it just dribbles out, does not attack. They set up offense against a really good half-court defense and can't get anything. they went out of their way to hunt Maxi when he had five fouls, which makes sense. But it really, like, messed with their rhythm. Marcus Smart was kind of wild with some of his decision-making down the stretch.

He had finished with six turnovers, I believe. And honestly, like, the quote-unquote biggest play of the game was probably besides Hardin's three, Malcolm Brogden's turnover, where, like, nobody wanted to shoot the basketball. I didn't understand. You're up one. Jason Tatum has a wide open pull-up three. There's 1.7 on the shot clock and he passes to Brogden and Brogden throws the ball behind him.

I haven't seen this since Georgetown, UNC, seven years before I was born. It's just like, how is this happening in the crunch time of a playoff game? One of the worst turnovers you'll ever see. And yeah, I just feel like the Celtics barfed this one up. Should have won the basketball game. made a lot of dumb decisions.

And I don't think that they should be super concerned. I think they're still the better team and should win the series. But it's just it stings to lose a game like this. Yeah, Tatum left a number of three-pointers on the table. I thought there were times. I love that he was trying to get things going towards a rim, especially when you have. Melton's a pretty good defender on him.

But I also think that the best move when you have somebody like Mountain on you is just shoot over him. there were times that he isolated against Maxi, as you said, I think those were good. But overall, it just felt like there were times when he passed up a wide open three-point shot. And he was four or five for the night. So it's like, you know, keep shooting those. And yeah, like, as for Brown, too, like it felt like in the second half, the Celtics just took their foot off the gas. And the Sixers were playing awful transition defense.

That was the whole basis of their first quarter run was not. even necessarily that they were running off of stops. There weren't a lot of stops to be found in this game. But when there were, it was basically just a layup line for the Celtics. And transition defense has basically been the Sixers biggest issue for the entire season. So, yeah, I don't know why they didn't go to that well more. I really don't understand the final offensive play of the game. A post-up set for Marcus Smart to make a decision on a night that he already had five turnovers and was having just a very strange Marcus Smart game.

Like there are excellent Marcus Smart games where he is just so totally locked in like his intuitive understanding of basketball at a level and like slowing things down in a way that like people, like lay people like you and I will never understand versus also just total like bad disaster. Marcus Mark is somewhere in the middle of those. Like he had one play where he just passed a ball

to Tobias Harris. Like he was trying to get it to He was trying to, yeah, okay, you remember that play. I don't have to go through it. Yeah, he had a couple really bad ones like that and it felt like yeah, he was just he was just trying to get too cute. Sometimes he tries to get too cute.

So he's not the guy that on this particular night I would have said, hey, like, let's have Marcus Smart make a decision. But at the same time, you also have Tatum and Brown who have had incredible nights just at your disposal. You've got a ton of time on the clock. Honestly, like give him the ball and let him cook. Like give it to them at the top of the key.

like see if see if the sixers double Tatum's been making great decisions out of double teams he had five assists tonight only one turnover so I don't know it just feels like it feels like the Celtics obviously had more talent on the floor tonight we'll see what happens when Joelle and Bid comes back the last time Joelle and Bid played the Celtics he had 52 points

so I don't know like healthy knees healthy knees he had healthy knees for sure so yeah Joel and Bid's health status is obviously the big question for this series but just the fact that they have the fact that they stole a game too i kind of wonder if you're if you're the sixers do you sit them out until game three right now do you kind of just expect that you're going to lose game two no matter what or do you think okay well it probably depends on how imbets feeling but do you think okay we beat them without mbid now we just throw this seven foot MVP wrench into

the equation and they're not going to have an answer for that and maybe we can go up to oh you know, and go back home and just finish this thing off. But yeah, obviously that depends on Embed's health. But what do you think? I think you're playing with House Money if you're the Sixers. You know, if he can run up and down the court and defend outside the pain a little bit and come up because they're going to attack him and pick and roll a lot, I would imagine, to test that knee.

But if he can come up and he's mobile and offensively, he's forcing double teams and he's moving well in the short role and he's getting to his spot around the elbow, knocking down jumpers. Sure, play him. If not, if he's anything less than that, I think that, yeah, you trot out the same recipe that you had in this game. Hope you can go up to O magically, shoot the crap out of the ball again. And which is so amazing is that the Celtics, like, I don't think a team has ever lost in the history of the NBA playoffs

shooting the ball as well as the Celtics did tonight either which is just like just wild stuff so you tip your cap to the Sixers there but yeah like get him healthy make sure no more damage can be done

and have him play in game three I think that that's probably the wisest route because of them stealing game one I don't know it's an interesting call and who knows how healthy he is. I'm sure it was really interesting to me that they didn't rule him out until they absolutely had to.

He was doubtful and it was kind of up in the air whether or not he would play in this game. So I could see him playing in game two. It would be really interesting. It would be an emotional lift for that team. Absolutely. I think game one was was game one the biggest Sixers win that you can remember since Alan Iverson played for them? I can't think of a bigger Sixers win. I remember thinking at some point in the third quarter of this game,

when it still felt to me like the Sixers were eventually going to lose, that this reminded me of a lot of Sixers games where they win, but they leave you feeling uninspired and dull somehow. And this game was the complete opposite of that. And it has been a long time. It has probably been like since Jimmy Butler has been on the, Sixers, that you could say anything remotely close to that about this team. Now, there's something funny about saying that a game one win in the first round is huge

for a team that wants to be a title contender. But at the same time, I get what you're saying because of how this game belts, you know, because of the contributions that they got from guys outside of Hardin, because of the fact that Hardin ended up keeping it up. Like there were times in this game where I was like, oh, okay, he's starting to slow down a little bit now. Like he missed a couple shots early in the fourth and it looked like the Celtics were going to pull away.

And then he just comes back and he's like, you know, he's on an absolute heater. Like he just continues it and he hits that huge shot over Al. And man, like, that's the game. And you're like, okay, wait, this actually, we played the tape till the end and it actually worked out. And the thing is like, it's so rare that you play the tape to the end with the six and they win and you feel good about it. But I'm coming away from this one thinking both those things.

Like I love what Tobias Harris brought. I think Ty Maxi, like, I just love that he kept going for it. You know, I didn't love all of his decisions. I think there were times where it's like, you know, that's a shot that you pull a little bit early, especially when the superstar is on a heater. He was feeling himself. He was feeling himself.

But for a guy that can also, like, when he, when he misses some shots, for a guy that can actually often disappear, I way prefer that. And, you know, I love what Mountain brought. I love just, like, PJ Tucker, once again, like, the rebounding. I love Doc's rotations. How often do you say that, you know? Like, that was one of the biggest, like,

I honestly, one of the biggest factors in the game, I think was how Doc just, like, he was masterful tonight. Like, honestly, early in the game, you get Nyang, he drives and has this weird turnover. and he only ends up going one for three for the night. So you realize early that it's not in the Ang night. You put Paul Reed in there. Bebal Paul,

fucking shout out to Bebal Paul. What a legend. Not only does he hit those free throws, but he's just awesome on the offensive glass. And I remember thinking like early, early in the game, I think there was a Celtics offensive rebound that led to a Jalen Brown three. And I was like, oh, is this going to be a problem for the six or something? And it ends up actually being a problem for the Celtics because Paul Reed gets four

offensive rebound and he's got Tucker helping him out down there too and they're creating like just enough extra possessions. He ends up with 13 rebounds. He gives him just enough room protection. It's just, yeah, it was a great game from him and I'm glad that he's the guy that got 37 minutes tonight too. And Jalen McDaniels, another guy was not having a good night. You would think you want him defensively in this series. He gets beat. I think he got beat pretty bad by Brown backdoor. A lot of a lot of bad backdoor cut beats from the Sixers tonight that I think the Celtics will continue to exploit. But yeah, I don't know. Like, I look at this game and I'm just, I'm happy all around. I don't look. There's usually some larger structural, structural or spiritual issue that comes to

light when you're watching the Sixers. And it just didn't tonight. So I don't know. I feel like Sixers fans should just enjoy this moment. They just like, they've had so few moments to just enjoy throughout this entire like 100%. No, I mean, their identity as an organization for, I don't even know, like a decade has been being kind of the favorite expected to win and then not. So to go on the road without the presumptive MVP and beat the team that has had their number since Embedit has been in Philadelphia. just tremendous stuff in the second round. And again, like, I don't, I'd still think that the Celtics,

I still think the Celtics will win this series. Maybe comfortably, we'll see. But to your point, like, Paul Reed, just like stepping up in that environment, also something I just did not see coming out of him. You have to just like shout out to him. I mean, took advantage, like when

the Celtics actually were aggressively loading up to stop Hardin and Hardin would hit Paul Reed on a dive to the rim with a pocket pass and he knew what to do with it and he finished or he drew a foul and then he went to the line and he made the shots. So he was great

just knew where to be. I really like how the Sixers are switching a lot. I like the pass to Tobias Harris by the way. Yes, yes. These plays are all seared into my brain. Yeah. It's just that his bag keeps expanding. He had a couple of dribble moves against a net. You were like, whoa. And now he had the past hairs. And I'm like, okay. He's really putting the B-ball and B-ball Paul. Yes, an appropriate nickname. So, yeah, I think this is a really interesting series all of a sudden. And I, the more we talk about it, the Saturday get. So I don't know, you know, if you have anything else to say about it. Do you feel like it's meaningful beyond the symbolism of Philadelphia, like, winning a game no one expected them to, or not?

Yeah, I think the guy who put 52 on the Celtics, like, not even a month ago, is still on his way. So, yeah, I think this was probably meaningful win. I think this is... With one knee. Sure. Cere, come on. They didn't even, they didn't need any of the knees tonight. That's true.

That's true. Very fair. Okay, before we get out of here, we've been alluding to adjustments. Is there anything that you think the Celtics can do that? we didn't talk about. I mean, I would like, honestly, like, if Embed does not play, I don't want Samhouser to play over Great Williams. I don't think that makes sense at all. It makes sense dramaturgically.

You saw how a, dramaturgically, yes. Like, I think that the Celtics will live mostly with their game plan on both ends. They just need to tighten some things up with, you know, how they dropped. Maybe Horford could be a little higher on those. Even just like going under screens early on Maxie and Hardin, just not thinking that those guys can hit pull up threes for some reason in the first quarter. It was just, that's the type of stuff where it's just like, this is the playoffs, guys. And this is a team with NBA players on it.

And they can play basketball really well. So maybe execute the game plan. This is the best three-point shooting team in the league, too. So it's like if it's not going to be here. Great point. That is the only thing they're going to do. That's the recipe for them to win. Yes.

So tighten that up. And I think that Derek White will play a lot better. I think Jalen Brown will be a lot more aggressive. He only took 10 shots in this game, which is just like very abnormal. I thought Tatum played really well. Overall, his aggression level was high. attacking the basket, getting to the free throw line, and he was making quick decisions. He was really good off the ball, too.

A lot of backdoor cuts for dunks. He had two early dunks in this game. So, no, I don't think that, like, strategically there's anything huge that they have to switch up. It's, you know, it came down to this being kind of like a make or miss situation. The Sixers made a lot of shots, a lot of tough shots. And the Celtics also made shots, but a lot of their key players. I feel like just kind of crap the bed in this one in ways that they won't going forward. Do you have any thoughts on the general locker room culture slash possible malaise?

Or I wouldn't want to put it at the level of malaise, but just as a Celtics fan. Obviously, Jalen Brown has done like every interview that he possibly could since the All-Star break. Shout out to Logan Murdoch, by the way, The Ringer who wrote. the best profile on him this season I thought. Obviously doesn't seem that happy about the Kevin Durant trade rumors. Seems like maybe his best pal Jason Tatum was like, hey, Kevin, wouldn't it be like so cool if you were on the Celtics? Yeah, I don't know.

Just like what are your thoughts? But do you think that that like at this point where like they could be competing for a title that still is something that matters? I mean, those things are really tough to speak on because I don't know the answer to it. I don't think that it's like that concerning, to be honest, I think, that he also said multiple times in that interview and since that his sole focus is on making a deep playoff run with this team and avenging last year's loss in the finals. And who knows? We could, I think it's lined up right now for us to get. I don't want to look too far ahead because that's just, I'd be the Milwaukee Bucks right now.

but we could easily get a Golden State Warriors Boston Celtics rematch, and that would be awesome theater and awesome basketball. Shout out to Ben Cruz, who would be my mortal enemy for a little while. But, yeah, no, I don't think that, like, chemistry is an issue with that. I mean, these guys have been together for so long years and years and years, and they all seem to generally like each other. They have good on-court chemistry, off-court chemistry, that sort of thing. So I think it's fine.

Oh, you successfully put me on tilt before our last podcast ended. So I had to try. Ben Cruz is actually always my mortal enemy, but I will thank him. Fair. I will thank him today for helping produce a podcast. And thank you for Chris Sutton, as always, for being here. Thank you, Michael, for being here, despite how badly you didn't want to. I hope we made this only like the appropriate amount of painful for you today.

Appreciate you, Suez. All right, good night. We will talk to you guys next week.