The Ringer NBA Show - Is This a Boring Year for NBA Free Agency? Plus, Why Kyrie Irving to the Suns Can’t Work | Real Ones

Episode Date: June 29, 2023

Logan and Raja open by discussing what it’s like to be a retired NBA player during the offseason and the last time Raja almost convinced himself to make a comeback to the league (2:59). Next, they preview the upcoming NBA free agency period and debate whether or not it will have significant implications on the year ahead, and explain what it’s like for a journeyman role player during this time (13:05). Later, the guys walk through this year’s top free agents and pick their dream destinations for each player before touching on the rumors about Kyrie Irving going to Phoenix (30:41). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (52:00). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Erica Ramirez, founder of Ili, and hosts of What About Your Friends? A podcast dedicated to the many lives of friendship and how it's portrayed in pop culture. Every Wednesday on the Ringer dish feed, I talk to my best friend, Stephen Othello, and your favorites from within the Ringer and beyond about friendships on TV and movies, pop culture, and our real lives. So join me every Wednesday on the ringer dish feed where we try to answer the question TLCS back in the day. What about your friends? What's popping? Real ones.

Logan Murdoch here, Rajabell there. we are on the eve of free agency. First of all, Roger, isn't it weird? Like, they give us this mandate that the season is over,

right? It's not really over after the finals. It's not really a thing. I think that's the biggest farce that we have. You go right from the finals to the draft to free agency to summer league. I think you trick your mind

into thinking that you got time off and it's not that until at least August. No, and for a lot, I mean, certainly for, for media members. But, you know, for players and dudes on that grind

and people who have dreamt about playing in the NBA the entire life, that's the beginning of the season. I mean, that's the beginning of when stuff really starts to percolate and starts to pop and opportunities for cats that aren't necessarily in the league and draftees and, you know, Summer League and then his bag season starting tomorrow.

So, like, you know, a lot of guys who were knocked out of the playoffs or, or didn't make the playoffs or were knocked out relatively early for a lot of those, you know, pieces on some of those teams. Once the finals end, it really starts to get hot. What's the vacation schedule for an NBA player,

depending on, like, time you get out of the playoffs or if you even make it to the playoffs versus if you're, like, going on a deep, deep run? I think the few times I missed the playoffs, you know,

you were probably three weeks or so, like you take a vacation with the family, maybe go fishing or golfing, whatever it is you like to do. And then it's back to the grind, right? Like, you didn't have the whole, you just need a refresher. You need to kind of hit reset, right? 82 games was a long season, but, you know, you didn't have the stress of going through the playoffs and stuff like that. Now, if you made a long run, the tricky part is you still need the reset and you want to get away for longer, but you have much less time. So you really have to decompress in a matter of three weeks and get back at it because that offseason, once you've gone all the way to the finals or the Eastern Conference or Western Conference finals, isn't as long as you think it is. Once you get three weeks in, you know, now you're working on a month. You have to really start, you know, getting back to work.

You know who has gotten back to work, ladies and gentlemen. Roger Bell. We were in the pre-pod meeting that I was two minutes late to. This is the first time in months that I was later than Rajah on the call. And I think I know why. Because Raja has been working his ass off lately. I don't know if you guys listen to previous episodes, but he was talking about how he had, his shot was lost.

He didn't have his shot anymore. It was done, right? And recently as this, recently as this morning, he has regained a bit of his shot. and he had the video playing in the backyard with freeway out here playing. Shout out to Philly. And he was cashing shit out. And he thinks he's going to make a comeback.

It's not ready to release the footage yet to the people, but is on the road back. Raja, talk to the people about your journey. Tell us what's going on. Help us since you will, since you're being a coward and not giving us the footage, tell us what's going on. Wow. Well, the footage, wow. Let's just say this, all jokes aside, even if you're a decade plus out like myself, like there's a part of you when it comes this time of year and it's free agency time. There's just, there's a part of you that's like, man, I should be doing something right now. I should be getting, I should be getting better, right? Like, 9.9 times out of 10, I disregard that little voice, right? Like, I'm sitting there on a couch, mine in my business, drinking something. You got a burbin, you know, you're like, fuck that shit. I'm not true.

Bro, my back hurts. But what happened to me, full disclosure, was about a month and a half ago, maybe two months ago. You know, I was at, you asked me what I played at. I played right around, right under 215 was a sweet spot. Over 210, under 215 was where I felt good. And I was up probably around 233, you know? Yeah. Yeah, but I don't have like a, I mean, I was heavy for me.

But you would still probably look at me and be like, he's in decent shape. I mean, I said, you know, you look like you could give us two minutes maybe. No, you could give an elbow. An elbow, yeah, two minutes, probably not. Quick elbow. But what happened to me was I was messing around with my son and anybody who has, you know, children that are in this range, like my son's about to be a sophomore in high school, plays football.

We talk about him a lot, but he lifts a lot of weight. So, you know, my wife was in the room where she could see us. with my middle boy and me and my older one kind of were, you know, messing around pushing each other, right? And, you know, we push and we push and then we kind of locked up a little bit. All fun in games. Yeah. No, all fun in games. No, I know.

I know. But he got up under me a little bit. And I was in my flip-flops and, you know, the floors in the hallway are a little slippery. So before I know it, buddy got me sliding backwards. Oh, we can't have that. I knocked the picture off the wall, the frame broke the whole nine. I'm like, oh, shit. So, there's a long story, but at that point, I said to myself, man, this is not happening.

It stops now. Right now. So we got on our intermittent fasting. We started getting in the gym in the garage. Three times a week, dog, we started getting our mileage up. Like, this was a mission, dog. So yesterday, I ain't feel like running because I was so sore. So I said, I'm going to take the shooting machine out.

Last time I was on, you know, I couldn't find that shit. And that was disturbing. and it's not going to be like this today. So I threw on DJ Clue, I was still not finding it. And then what happened was I got thrown in the time machine with some of the beats that were coming out. And I clicked back into like 01, 02, 03,

like really angry, trying to prove something to somebody. And there it was. The jumper was back. Roger? Okay, this is what people who don't know, man. Whenever Roger is in the bag of bags, which he tends to be around this time of year when he's shooting around and fucking around.

The muse, this is why he doesn't listen to new shit because it throws him off. This is why he doesn't listen to your, your baby Keams, your little oozy's, your whatever new shit you think of, he doesn't listen to because it throws it off his game. When you know Rogers in his bag is when he's fucking playing that body in the trunk,

he's playing that fucking, it ain't hard to tell, or he's playing that fucking freeway, or he's playing that onics, or he's playing that Annie up, the M-L-P, like you know he's in a bag. Now, Roger, my question to you is you're 45 at this point, right? 46. 46.

Okay. So do you still like I know that you're retired and everything like that, but do you still see a pathway? Like you know the pathway to go back to the pros. You just know it can't, you can't do it. But what is the, do you see it sometimes where you're like, bro, I can fucking actually do this as a retired NBA player? I can, if I just fucking went hard without any injuries,

for however long many time, do you see that end of the tunnel? Like, I can do this, but I really can't. Like, how do you, what is, what is going through your mind throughout the season on a day to day? There is a zero percent chance. I mean, I could barely be in the NBA when I wasn't in the fucking NBA. Oh, God. Like, dog. There's no, there's no disillusion here.

It's absolutely not like that. This is proving to oneself out there that he can find something that he, he was very good at at one point. And there's some satisfaction taken from that. You know what I mean? And generally, just not trying to get pushed around by my 10th grader. You know,

those are the things that keep me motivated. There is not a piece of me that thinks about playing in the NBA. You know, me and Simmons be gassing you on the group chat and shit. Like every once in a while there's a playoff game. One of us just hits you like, yo, you could give us 10 minutes for the nuggets right now.

What's up? And you just never respond. Or it's like a crying emoji. You don't even give us like, you don't even be like, yeah, motherfucker, I got this shit. You don't even give us any, you don't even take the pain.

It is so out of the realm of possibilities. I mean, if there was a 1% chance that that could happen, I'd indulge. But when I tell you there's a zero person, like there's a zero percent chance that I could get up and down to court for three possessions, dog. I would tear something, hurt something. I don't know if I told you this. I mean, I got free agency coming up, which is probably storytelling today. But when I was with the calves, you know, it was my first.

I had been retired probably two and a half years. This is my third year going into retirement. And I showed up with the calves. I wasn't in great shape, but I wasn't that far removed from really training. So we started off really slowly, and our team had some holes when I first got there, right? We hadn't acquired J.R. Smith and Amund Schumpert yet.

And so it was in our offices with Trent Redden and Kobe Altman and David Griffin, there had been a couple instances where people had alluded to to me maybe having to get in shape to fortify our bitch and so... Shut up!

No, no, no, no. But now, so it was I mean, it was a joke but not a joke, right? So like... It was like ha ha ha, but I mean, if you want to. So I was kind of given the green light to like really start training in our facility.

So I would do my work like as whatever my role was, I forget exactly what they called me. But then I would get in and really, you know, get a lift, you know, get in, get in my shots, start taking care of my body in a way to see if I could do it. And I mean, it never played itself out like that. But that was the last time where I really said,

if I have to, I could do this. This is before to JR something? Absolutely. So, like, wasn't there, like, injuries or something, too, before that? Like, was this around that time? Like, I don't know. No, LeBron just had gone away for a little bit, right? He went to Miami.

The team wasn't playing great. You know, there were probably some pieces that came with LeBron from Miami that weren't exactly what the Cavs thought they were getting maybe as a fair way to put it. Like, whatever roles they were needing from them, they didn't feel like that was great. Defensively, I don't think we were very strong at that point. And so, you know, they were, Griffith, he said to me multiple times. So I was like, okay, well, I mean, that's not what I signed up for.

but are you watching film? Are you saying this is where LeBron is going to throw with a pass on the corner? No. If I do come out. Like how far did it get before it was like, you know what? I'm going to sit my ass down. I can't do this. Well, so I got in a few noon ball games with some of the coaches.

Sean Marion was rehabbing so he'd be in those games. Phil Handy's Young Buck, McKenzie, was telling him. Shout out Phil Handy. Straight up. So I plan a few of those after a couple of those. couple weeks of really, you know, getting some work in. I playing those. And I was, I was good to go. I was straight. Now, I wasn't an NBA player, but I still had work to do. But it just, it became clear that that wasn't going to be an option. And so I just, I used it as a way to

get back in shape. But it was the, there was the last time that I ever convinced myself that it could be possible to get back into that. Damn, bro. There's so many what-ifs there, man. There's so many what-ifs. Jeez. Wow. You could have got revenge on the warriors and the, in the finals, you know, you could have like, damn, dog, like, you could have, fuck. And real talk, if I had pushed for it, like, I didn't really push for it. Like, it was always coming from them and me just kind of listening because real talk, I couldn't tell if it was, you know, jokes or testing the water. So I didn't really, you know, I didn't really reciprocate with, like, yeah.

And that screamers, though, was you still like, you know, did the competitive juices come out? Did the freeway start playing? And did that body in the trunk energy come out in the, and a noon pickup? games. I was cooking in noon ball. Don't get that twisted. All right. Here we go. There we go. There we go. There we go. Don't get to. Okay. Let's somehow get to free agency, Roger. Let's somehow get here. We're 13 minutes in. We got enough of that. Not even that we have enough of that. I just feel like we should address. I mean, listen.

Yeah, but like you got to have some fluff. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. I'm down with it. I'm locked it because, Raja, you know, there's been stories on the ringer.com. Rob Bohoney. wrote something, Zach Cramm wrote something. And it's basically alluding to the fact that this is just a boring free agency period. It just, you know, it is. Right? Like where...

I think we would say peak free agency is 2010 with LeBron, right? And then you go into 2016. Kevin Durant is going to the Warriors and you have the signing trade for Jimmy Butler

ensuing Summers, right? All right. So now this year, we have basically an older version of that, right? Where we have James Hardin, but it's not Prime James Hardin, who is a multiple all-star James Hardin, right? It is Hardin that is a contributor, but not what he was at a younger age. And we're seeing where he's going to go, right? We have Fred Van Bleak, really good player, but is it going to get a special made around him, right?

where do you see this free agency in comparison to other free agencies, Raja? And quite frankly, are you going to be on your couch on pins and needles this weekend? How do you feel about this whole shabang? I mean, I don't think it's the most exciting free agency period that we've had for sure. But I never really, although my job now is on the media side of it, so naturally you're going to be, in tune with all the big names and those are the things that are going to sell. I never really looked at it through that prism.

Like just always being a journeyman, I was always more concerned with, you know, the guys that your average fan wasn't really paying attention to in free agency, but he was about to change his family's life. You know what I mean? Or legacy and be able to do things that that he never dreamed he could do.

And so there's still going to be a lot of that going around, but you just don't have those major, or stars that are at the peak of their powers, you know, changing the landscape of the NBA, this free agency period. And that's okay. I mean, it's not as exciting for the fan, but there's still a lot of boys out there that are,

that are going to fulfill lifelong dreams of securing a nice bag in the NBA. I agree. I understand that. That's, I mean, obviously, that's the human element of it, right? What is it as a journeyman to go

through this period. We've talked about it in previous episodes of just like your journey as a free agent and the near misses that happened. But from the day to day, like, what is the nerves like? What are we thinking about? And because the NBA is a especially free agency, it's

kind of more of a crap shoot than you think, right? Because one of those things are, oh, this person that we targeted just got signed by somebody else with an offer. So we need to pivot right now, right? To get this guy or get this guy. Or maybe this guy thought he was going to get a bag and maybe he's not. So now we have to have our eyes on this guy to bring him in, right? And there's a lot of

split second decisions that happen in free agency. From a player's perspective, how do you go through the ebbs and flows of that when you are a journeyman player and you might not have the first priority and the pick of the litter that you want to? You have to just take it while it's there. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good question. I mean, I've experienced free agency from a lot of different perspectives, right? Like one of the first ones I can remember is when I was told by Philly that they weren't going to bring me back. And I had no expectations. I was hoping to get picked up by somebody and I wound up in Spain. You know, like so that was one with no expectations, like really hopeful, sitting around watching all the dominoes fall and then quickly realizing like and having to have a powwow with your agent.

Like look, this has dried up. Like what's our next move? Because the next thing that's going to happen is those major deals in. Europe, the ones that, you know, are really lucrative, they will dry up because they're going to be people like you that realize they're not going to get signed here in the NBA. So now we got to pivot. And so that was my first time. My second time was after coming back from Spain and playing with Dallas and having contributed to a team that went to the Western Conference finals, I'll be at half the time. Nellie would play me half the time. I either started half the games or I didn't

play in the other. Like, it was weird. But I was a little disillusioned because I really thought that I was going to have a little deal. Like there would be something there for me in maybe not the first night, but in the next week and a half to two weeks. And that didn't happen either. So I got really frustrated. I was young. I was insecure because I had just had to go to Spain. I felt a little, you know, I was a little jaded and felt disrespected. And so, you know, I wound up taking a very marginal deal from the jazz. And it wound up being the best thing that ever happened to me. But I had to swing at something because there just wasn't. It wasn't, we had misinterpreted the market.

So my agent, and this is part of it too, what you get from your agent kind of shapes, you know, the way you're looking at that. So when your agent tells you, you know, I got a lot of, I got a lot of irons in the fire. I fielded a lot of calls. There are a lot of people that are interested. It starts to shape like the way you think that's going to play out for you. So I'm like, okay, well, this should be a second, third week. And when he's coming back saying, look, I just, they're not calling.

You're like, well, what the fuck? Like, you, you're the one taking a call. You told me. Right. Yeah. So that was that one. After that stint, two years in Utah, scored the ball a little bit. I was unbeknownst to me because I wasn't going to make the same mistake as I had the two years prior where I was really gassed and thought I was something that I wasn't.

I was just kind of chilling with my wife. This was a regular, this was a regular evening for us. You know, we had gone out. We were on the beach and I'd come home. and I was in the shower and my phone started ringing. This was at 1201. So when I say my phone started ringing, it was ring. Hey, hold on real quick.

I got another call. Hey, can you call me back in two minutes? Finish that conversation. Ring. Hey, this is such and such from so on and so forth. We want. So I had about seven or eight calls. Wait, so is a general manager called players too?

Like, is that a thing or do they call the agent to call the player? Like, how does that work usually? I think both because I, I had heard from multiple general managers and I had heard from my agent multiple times, right? So some people were reaching out to me. Some people were reaching out to him. But we had a list of like a handful of teams that were going to come down to meet where I was going to go see them. And so I was prepared to start fielding offers and seeing where I wanted to play. And Phoenix came in, which was one of my, you know, we had put a list together of places that I really wanted to play.

Utah was on that list as number one. Phoenix was on that list as like 1B. There were a few places like that. So when Phoenix got on the horn and they were super mad aggressive, like here's the deal. We really want him. Take it or leave it. It won't be there tomorrow.

Why did you want to go to Phoenix? I mean, I had played with Steve in Dallas. He and I were cool. We had hung out and talked during the year. They had a really exciting style of play. This was right at the beginning of what they were doing. They had lost. Or they'd beat Memphis or they'd lost.

It doesn't matter. Maybe lost to Memphis. Did somebody get hurt? But the point was they were playing this style. No one was playing it. And I was really familiar with Steve. And we had had conversations that made me feel comfortable that I would fit in well there. So it was high on the list.

Plus Phoenix was a great city. So I pivot. I went back to Utah like, hey, you know, here's the deal. Like my agent was like, look, we need to talk. Kevin O'Connor is like, we'll talk. Here's what we got. And he was like, yeah, we'll talk in the morning. And I mean, we didn't have until the morning.

Like, you know, it wasn't like. I didn't want to wait until the morning. We just didn't have the luxury. So we signed that night. So that was my experience with being a coveted, highly tiered free agent, right? Phone ringing at 1201. And then, you know, maybe the one that's most pertinent to this conversation would be after I play out that deal, and I'm now an older veteran player that probably could contribute

to a winning situation, maybe not the minimum anymore. But it coincided with LeBron being a free agent. this one was really unique because I did get a little frustrated with LeBron because no dominoes were moving. We all had to wait until LeBron figured out what he was going to do because obviously that was going to reshape if he moved the whole deal. Do you know what I mean? And so there was this period of time that almost everyone was just in a stand still waiting

to see what happened. And then once he made the decision, that's when things started to heat up. That's when everybody, all these mid-level guys started signing. And then, you know, these fringe players started signing. And then I was sitting around and, you know, Miami, you know, offer me in Boston came in late. And Utah was there. And I talked to Kobe. And but that one was frustrating for different reasons because I had to sit there and wait like a lot of us did for LeBron to make that call, which, you know, look, I love LeBron.

But at the time, I was frustrated because I wouldn't figure out where the hell I was going to be. Well, yeah, it's because I'm looking at a decision. That's July 8th. 2010. So that's a whole week of not knowing what the hell you're going to do and where you're going. And like, it's all because of one man. And greatest player of our generation. So we did it. But like, damn, dog, like, where are you, what are you doing? Where are you doing during that week when he's just fucking whatever the fuck he's doing? Whatever, what he's doing, whatever. He's not, he ain't tripping off of you, but like, whatever he's doing to make his decision. I was somewhere

talking shit, I'm sure. I mean, I think, so if I remember at 12, I did get calls that night at 1201, right? I was in my, my in-laws home in Long Island. And I remember, you know, getting a call from the Lakers and getting a call from a few other teams. But it was, hey, we were really interested and, you know, we'll be back in touch. We just wanted to express that we're interested. We got some things to take care of and then we'll get back. So it wasn't the same 1201 call, which was like, yo, we want you or we want to come to you tomorrow or we want you to come to us or take it or leave a type of deal. This was like, yo, pump the brakes for a second. Give us some time. We're interested. Let us see how our roster shapes out. So I was in New York and I think that helped because I got out, you know, you're visiting people. You know, I'm out there playing golf. I got a lot of shit going on.

But every day you got to go work out. And every day in those workouts, I think I was working out with Jay Hernandez up in Long Island. And, you know, a lot of conversation revolves around like, hey, what are you thinking? Like, what, what, where you're trying to go. And that becomes frustrating because you just really, you're like, listen, dog, nothing is going to happen for me at least until,

until this domino falls, right? And so, you know, you just take it, you just take it one day at a time, put your work in, you know,

understand where you fall in the hierarchy. Like, that's who I was as an older player that wasn't going to move the needle that much for a team. I was going to be an accent at best. And so as frustrating as it is, it's business. And,

you know, you have to learn how to operate, you know, as a pro. And so I waited my time. And then once LeBron made his move, we started sifting through the options. Bro, life is a journeyman, man. You need, it's tough, bro. And it also, it also shows the reason why, like, if you, if you're an NBA player

or you're a young NBA player, you got to get your bread where you can get it, man. Like, you got to just, you have to take those opportunities because it's just, it's a split second decision. That's a life-changing decision, but it's split second. It's like, you don't got a lot of time to think. like, I'm going to take this or I'm going to not take this or and these are the ramifications the other way. And you got to have that self-awareness because it's tough here, man. No, yeah, that last time around the block was really difficult for me because, you know, I always

wanted to play in Miami. Miami came in and made me an offer, you know, after they had signed James and Mike Miller and Eudanis and all of those guys. But it was for the minimum. And it was a one-year deal for the minimum, right? And so that was a one-year deal for the minimum, right? And so that was a on the table. Then, you know, I met with Kobe and talked to him or I didn't meet with him, but we had had conversations. And that was going to be a minimum type of situation too, right? And then I had Utah and Chicago for roughly the same amount of money, but different amount of years. So, you know, you had these similar like deals in terms of overall money, but one was spread out in Utah a little longer. And so now you're trying to figure out, all right, like Miami's probably

closest to a championship. But, like, you know, the minimum was, like, one-tenth of what I was still, like, able to kind of get from other teams. So is that a guarantee championship? Like, why I liked the winning championship? You know, man, that's going to be really tough. And, like, you know it's your last deal. Like, you know this is probably going to be your last deal.

Yeah, at that point, like, if you're bringing me in on the minimum, you're not going to play me a lot, probably. There's going to be no way for me to restore any value. So like I am now a minimum player from here on out if I get to play past this last year because you could sit me and that effectively ends my career, right? Because people are like he's washed.

So that one was like, I probably can't do that. And so then, you know, Kobe and I always wanted to go see how he worked. And if I could kind of live up to that standard and that was one. And I was like, man, I can't, I probably play more with the Lakers. Because his pitch was like, look,

LeBron, D. Wade, and these dudes are getting, a super team together and, you know, we're going to do something like, you know, we'll have answers for that. And he was talking about me being able to guard, you know, either of those two dudes and then him being able to guard and whoever else was out there. So I knew I'd have more of a role on that team, but it was still minimum. He said, we got answers for that. He did. And that was appealing, right? Hey, hey, Beat is a cold motherfucker to say some shit like that, bro. He's like, oh, you got LeBron and DeWay, but, yo, we got answers for that. He literally. He literally,

said that I was walking, I was pacing in front of my in-laws house in Long Island in the middle of the street having this conversation with this man. So like I remember it because I went back in the kitchen and I was like, you guys will never guess who I just got off the fucking phone with. And people were like, what? But that's where his mind was. His was like, yo, we could we're going to take care of that. And so, but it was the minimum, Logan. And so then, you know, Utah had familiarity, Darren Williams, Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap, Mehmet O'Core. Like we were going to, Andre Carolinko, we were going to be a really good team. And their deal was spread out over three years. So it was less money per year, but we were going into a lockout year. So we didn't

know how much of that first year in, let's say, Chicago, even though the money, you know, the money was more. Like if I missed that whole year, you know, I stood to lose more money by taking the two-year deal than I would spreading it out over three. And this was probably my last time around a block. And so ultimately, my familiarity, I love Jerry. I thought we were going to be. really good. And the three years allowed me to kind of mitigate maybe some of the loss if it was a long lockout. So we took it. That makes

sense. And then you know, also like there's any NBA players listening. Hello. But also if you if you do that, right? Say you're signing a minimum deal with the Lakers, right? You just

said all the reasons why that would not be great, especially if it's a one-year minimum. But if you signed this multi-year deal with the Utah Jazz, there's a world where you can get traded to any one of these teams that you initially probably wanted to go and have a higher salary and more security on those teams. So I get what you were doing, like even if, like, this is just the best deal. I had to take that at that point in my career. If I hadn't gotten sideways with the Jazz and been a dummy, like I was a dummy for what I did, that probably would have happened because it would have

been easier to trade me. But, you know, like, I didn't help myself and the Jazz didn't help me and out of their spite they didn't help themselves because they couldn't move me. Can you dig what I'm saying? Like they wanted to spite me. You talk that shit. You tried to pay me as a bad guy and therefore you couldn't trade me and then boom, here we are. We're both fucked. But the point was that could have happened. And if I were a younger player, Logan, and had real belief in myself, I would take in a minimum deal maybe because I know I'm going to play, like I know that I can play. Some of like Malik Monk, I don't know if you took a minimum deal, but like one of those deals where, yo, I just need to get back on track and then I'm going to get my back.

Absolutely. But at that point in my career, like, that wasn't really what was going to happen, right? Like, I knew that I was slowing down. Like, teams knew that I was slowing down. So taking the one year minimum deal was going to seal my fate more so than more than me being able to show the world that I deserve more than that next time at the age I was. Now, ladies and gentlemen, is an education on free agency. We're going to take a quick break. And we're going to play a game, Raja. Stay tuned. And we are back.

Let's put a little game, I literally just told Raja this game that we're about to play that I literally thought of last segment. And it is, as we're going into free agency,

we have a lot of key free agents, and we're just going to pick some names and just say what team we want them to go on. And honestly, this has nothing to do with like salary cap situations or trades or if it could actually work or not. You know how we do it ruins.

It is just vibes. So, Raja, we're going to give you a quick name first. Someone that is a guy we talked about a lot on this program, Mr. Kyrie Irving. Who would you want Kyrie Irving to, which team would you want to see him play on next season? Yeah, in a vacuum, right? Like, again, where there's no salary caps, none of that. I'm talking purely basketball, like, where I think he would fit best and thrive. And there would be two places.

It would be the Lakers. and it would be the Miami Heat. Both of them have a need for more playmaking and scoring. Both of them have defensive pieces that they would kind of be able to maybe make up for his lack of... I see, Kyrie's a better defender than he gets credit for. He just don't defend all the time, right? But so for that reason, they've got defense in place. And here's the biggest part.

They're culturally, you know, there's a big culture piece in place. LeBron is a culture piece. Like, he drives culture. The heat and their heat culture has talked about at lengths. Like, they can maybe absorb a Kyrie and get the best of what he has to offer in a set-in like that. And so for those reasons, it'd be those two. When you talk about, before I wanted to talk about, like, the defender that Kyrie is, great defender when he's locked in, especially during the finals against one guy, right?

Like, where he just was, where he has a point to proof. I saw him in his first finals. He was blocking shots. He was stripping motherfuckers. I was like, who are you? What is going on? Right? But I think that it's funny, you took both of my picks.

So I would like, I might have to take it. I might have to do it and take another stab at it. You know who I would love to see him play with? And this is assuming that they're healthy. L.A., but the clippers. I think that would be fun. I think that would be a great opportunity to see him play alongside Kauai, play alongside PG.

Assuming it's like I would want him to play on the Clippers. If it was like the 2K setting where injuries were off and like and like stamina and energy is all the way on like it's that's great too. So they're just playing and it's I would love to see him play on on on the LA Clippers. I think that would be a fun get interesting interesting collaboration of talent. Interesting collection of talent there. And I could see where you're going with that. The only reservation I would have in this make believe world and maybe since this make believe it doesn't it doesn't matter is like. Kawhi doesn't really lead, lead, or drive any kind of culture, and nor does Paul George is great, and I love him, but I don't think he's really a culture driving duty either. It would be Kyrie's team in a lot of ways, right? And that's not the best thing, right? Right?

I mean, for Kyrie, maybe he thinks, but I think for him, that's not the best idea. The reason why I'd say, like, I mean, I feel like every team post-Cavilleer era, Kyrie, has had his imprint on it, right? Like, he just is the biggest personality in the room. He is that. So that would happen in, uh, in L.A.

It was interesting because like I was hearing like a slight, a slight buzz that, you know, he would try to reunite with, uh, in Phoenix with KD, but that wouldn't work. I would never want to see that happen. Um, that's Kyrie. All right. I'm going to go on another name that we, we've been talking about on the, um, we've been talking about a little bit over the last few weeks. Draymond Green.

Now, I think that he's going, I think, if you had to ask you right now, he's probably going to go to the Warriors on a multi-year deal, right? I think just with the roster set up and you trade for Chris Paul, you're trading for Chris Paul to pair him with Drame, with the idea that Draymond, Clay Thompson, and Steph Curry are all going to be there, right? And the Warriors seem to be confident of that. So with that out of the way,

what team that I would love to see him on and it would be really fun. I would love to see him on the Sacramento Kings. I've said this, I've said this many of times throughout the season on this podcast, on Bill's podcast, on anyone that would give me a mic,

just say how fucking fun that would be. I just, I would want to see revenge Dremont. Like, the best Dremont is someone has him fucked up. right where he feels slighted where even if he even if he was the one that did something wrong

and he feels slighted a season of that I think would get the Sacramento Kings to a four seed I think it would I think it would get them I don't think they would want a title by any means but have the Kings play the Warriors in any sort of circumstance

if he's on the Kings bet that the Kings are going to come out and come out on top I would love to see him in that type of situation. I think that's a fantastic call. I was going to say Golden State because I think he's so unique as a player that you've got to play a certain style to really get the best out of it. Like, you know what I mean?

I know this always comes off as shade and I don't mean it like that. I don't think his style of play and what he's kind of master doing fits in every situation. They just don't play like that to get full value out of Draymond. But Sacramento Kings, and I was only going to say Golden State, Sacramento Kings was the other name I was going to play around with. I think it's a great call. You got a bunch of pieces that they play fast. They move the ball.

They're explosive, and he can kind of conduct. Yeah, I agree with you. I love that call. I think that, yeah, I think it would work just for this. Specifically, like I don't want the other team that, was out there was the Detroit Pistons. I don't think he would, I don't think that's a, that's not a great fit. I think Sack has the combination of young dudes and just young like just dudes, you know,

like who ain't scared as shit. Like Malik Munk love him. Deerrin Fox love him. And I know Jory loves him too, right? This would be like a great. And also it would, it would prove to, it would be his opportunity to prove to the NBA world that, no man I am a great fucking player

I am a great player and I can be a I'm a great basketball player and I can do that in any setting um damn do we just convince ourselves to just like draymond go to side bro um all right

another name Damian Lillard he continues to double down on Portland I mean that's just what it is man he continues to do this um

I guess the easiest call is Miami because, like, man, that would just be great. I'm going to go without just vibes. I want to see him on the Lakers, bro. I want to see him on the Lakers. I think that would be great. I think that would be awesome. He has LeBron's respect. He's a good enough player to not have to play.

It could say could not have to play in the shadow of LeBron. And what I mean by that is he could say, man, I'm dame fucking Lillard, bro. Like you got like, I have a, he has enough of an ego, earned ego to be like, no, I'm my own man. I can get us right, right? I think that I would love to see him on that team. I think it would be a better fit than Westbrook. And in fact, like, before the Westbrook deal went down,

LeBron was recruiting Dame Lillard to come to Los Angeles. And Dave, similar to this summer, was like, you know what? I'm all hardest in Portland. And signed a deal to go back to Portland. But I think the Lakers would be a great fit. What you think, Rob? Yeah, I love the Laker call. It was going to be one of mine.

There are a few places, not unlike Kyrie. Miami. Just plug and play. You know, you're good. You got him, Jimmy, and if you could keep Bam in that scenario, I think you're set up really well. Philly. I think that'd be a nice fit with him and Joel and whatever, you know, pieces you had to to kind of support that.

And I do think, weirdly, that Clippers, the team you mentioned with Kyrie, if you plug Dame into that with Paul George and Kauai. I think it's because of his stability. Yeah. I think you're better than if you plug Kyrie into it. So, um, Clippers are a nice one though. Clippers are a nice one because he could,

he could be a guy that can just, he is a strong, strong enough personality to where he could, Eddie speaks. He could be a really, he could be the leader of that locker room. If he goes to Clippers. Totally. And, and what, you know, all those places are, you know,

when you're saying you can plug, Damon, like you could probably plug Kyrie and skill set-wise, right? Like, you could debate over who's better, but what they're going to do for your team in terms of offense and scoring is kind of in the same box. But personality-wise and cultural fit, I think there are certain scenarios that are set up to be able to handle, you know, Kyrieg because there are things in place. And I don't think you have to worry about that to the same degree with Dee Lillard. So, like, you could put him into like a Clipper situation.

and he'd drive that kind of culture. So I like those for him. But ultimately, I think my two favorites would be the Lakers. It was a great call and the heat. Last was certainly not least. Let's go with James Harden, which would be very interesting. Could. Houston?

No. Would you want to? No, absolutely not. Where would you want him to go? The only place he can go, Philly. Really? I was going to make the case. Let's go to, wait, hold that thought on Philly.

I was going to make this case for quick. Is there a way that if he went down to South Beach and they put him in heat culture? No. No. No. Roger, how would that work? That cannot work. No.

He's in Miami all the time. time. What do you mean? That's like a home for him. Right. I'm not even about to do this with you, bro. No, no. No disrespect to James Hardin. No disrespect. I don't think that he would even entertain. They're not even taking as soon as James, it's to hang that up. James is like, yo, I, Mickey Erison, got a lot of respect for you, Pat, got a lot of, of respect for you. Hang that box. I'm locked in.

I'm ready to go and I'm ready to be serious. Let me be serious then. Let me allow me to be serious because I know like we're not even getting to like the things heat culture wise that he does not check boxes for that would be red flags off the bat. Right? Like not even a touch on those. But just from a style of play like he can't fit in that. Like they're all you know what I mean?

Like I do ask Jimmy Butler and. and Bam out of bio on them to just stand? Like he went to Brooklyn saying that he was going to, you know, hang out and be a piece and not have to have the ball. And by from what I got from people, that didn't last very long. Like he was in there talking about, yo, I need a ball.

I need a ball. I don't want to just stand here. Like, and that's playing with Kyrie and Kevin damn Durant. What do you think he's going to do if you give him Jimmy Butler and fucking bam at a bio? You think he's going to play off the ball? No.

you got me like you got me like curved the other day no no no so like like like i'm sorry but no no no no you took offense to that i'm sorry pal i did i really did that that hurt you bad he's going to philly you know it's funny uh third i kai just sit me at text that's going to be very interesting. It's hell of funny that I just told you this. Remember I just said literally five minutes ago that there was a rumor that I kept hearing that like don't, don't rule out

Kyrie Irving. Yeah. For Phoenix. Chris Haynes just fucking tweeted NBA star, Kyrie Irvin intends to beat with the Phoenix sons with the Phoenix, when the free agency period begins tomorrow. Also,

also that would take a lot of work. That would take us, I would believe would take a sign and trade for Aiden at least, right? Like, I don't know how this works with their salary cap set up, right? Like, I don't know. I just don't, like, I don't think that would just, that would just be wildly stupid, honestly. Like, I can't. Yeah.

That would just be wildly stupid for that to happen. I get my guy James Jones more credit. Come on, Joubs. Joubs is my guy. I don't know. I mean, this isn't even a Kyrie thing. I mean, how small are you going to get? like do you know what I mean like yeah I mean

how are you replacing Aiton I guess you know I know I've heard the stuff about Aiton and he doesn't like not getting a ball and he doesn't give you the best and this and that and now that you've got you know Bradley Beale and and I mean you're already thin as it is like what do you replace him with I'm just gonna say this Roger I'm putting my I'm put my media hat on right now and I'm just you know I'm just look pursing through the rumors right now this definitely seems like a leverage place from Kyrie, bro.

This doesn't make any sense. This doesn't make any sense to even broach the topic of going back, right? Like, but like I said, I've heard these rumors, but like I've heard the Bradley Beal deal, this doesn't make any sense for him to do that. Like, just sign with the Mavericks, dude. Just sign with the Mavericks.

This is where you're at. I mean, like the Mavericks are sitting around saying, yeah, that's a possibility. Like, but that's what's a lot of smokescreens, right? It's a lot. Kyrie's trying to make it appear that there's a market. market out there for him that might not exist. You know what I mean? And so I don't know. I think there

might be a little bit too much dip on his chip. It just seems like a little bit too much dip on his chip, which is so much like, Tyree. Yeah. I don't, I don't, yeah, it's a silly one. I mean, but here's the crazy part. Like, no, I'm not even going to get into that. I'm not even going to do it. Because I was going to say, like, in some world, like, because James Jones is there, and there's a relationship in place, and there's some familiarity. And they're, like, Those are things that if I'm looking at situations where you might get the best out of Kyrie as a, as a, as a, as a accountable piece of your organization, like those are things that if in place, I could say, oh, okay. Yeah, maybe. It's a recipe to get a lot of motherfuckers fired, Rogers, all that is. That's what that. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. No, I'm not doing it either. Don't get me wrong. I'm just doing my thing where I try to say,

I could see potentially how it might, you might get a decent chyri in that, but I see it makes no sense. Just sign with the Mavericks, dude. Just sign with the Mavericks, figure it out there. Like, I get it. You need leverage and you want guarantees in your contract. I understand. I get it. Well, the two of them, the two of them, right?

Like, maybe for different reasons, you know, Hardens older. But I think they both fall into this category where they need to stay. Like, that's the best place for them, right? Where they're at. But the club, again, for different reasons, is it would behoove them, for different reasons, for different reasons, it would behoove them to not lock into something long, right?

Like, you don't want Kyrie locked in long term if you're the organization. The Mavericks and the Sixers as it relates to trying to resign James Hardin and needing to retain Kyrie, right? After all that you did to get him. So both of those, I think, are the best destinations for the player and the teams need to bring them back. And what I'm saying is four different reasons,

but similarly, you would want to get them in a contract that doesn't lock in, you know, that doesn't lock in for a long time. So that there's leverage there that you can apply, if need be, if,

you know, Kyrie were to, you know, revert to some of the behaviors that he had in Brooklyn, right? And now you're not sitting there with him locked into five years, telling you, hey, bro, you're fucked. Right? And then James Hardin,

just because of where he is in his career, and you know, you're going to need to do some things with Tyrese Maxie, and, you know, he hasn't, his playoff failures, it's a thing. You know, and at that age, you probably want to lock into that four years, five years, you know? It's, uh, we'll see what happens. I'm curious, though, like,

and I'll just briefly skimmed through Haynes' reporting real quick. And it wasn't really addressed. So I wanted to, I do wonder what, like, I'm just like openly wondering. I do wonder what his relationship with is, with Kyrie's relationship it is with Kevin right now. Like that's just a question that I have. Because when I asked Kevin in Phoenix a couple months ago,

yeah, so his comment was basically, that's something I'm going to keep internal. I don't want to expose our relationship. I think that's deeper than basketball, but I wouldn't say my relationship with Kyrie was a problem. I didn't think it was a problem. That was what he said. It seemed like he was,

reconciling all that himself, right? Like, that's what I wrote in the story. And I just do wonder, like, you know, I wonder what that dynamic is at this point. And I'm saying this is someone who genuinely doesn't know their relationship at this point in time. I do wonder, like, how you reconcile it would want that back into your locker room after what happened. And this is just me asking as, as an observer. how you could do that, even if he was going to okay that. Like, I wouldn't want, like, Brooklyn was a headache, man.

As we both know, that I wouldn't sign back up for that if a KD after what just happened and transpired. Like, I don't care if we cool or not. That's not something I want if I'm moving on. Yeah, I think if you are sitting there with just you and Devin Booker and that Kyrie talent despite everything that took place in Brooklyn, that Kyrie talent is staring you in the face with an opportunity to have it on your team. I've said this before. That's a very, very hard thing to say no to. He's that damn talented. And I'm not talking about to a regular fan. I'm talking

about to some of the greatest to ever play the game, like a fucking LeBron and a Kevin Durant would sit there and watch him. I've seen it with my own eyes. They'll watch what he does and be like, damn, bro, how you do that? So when those dudes have that reaction to your skill set, I'm sitting here telling you right now, if it was just Kevin Durant and Devin Booker, he might be able to put those feelings aside and say, man, let's take a swing at that if it were possible.

But with Bradley Beal in hand, and now you're sitting there with Bradley Bill, Devin Booker and Kevin Durant, I'm 100% with you. I'm straight. I don't need a roll of dice on that. who you need front court help more than you need another guard. Well, no, one thousand percent. But, but, but, but, yeah, 1,000 percent.

But because, because it's there, because you have that third guard, like you, all those feelings that you may have done a good job of being, you know, mature and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and you're this, you know, you've got this ability to kind of let bygones be bygones and water under the bridge in a way that I quite frankly couldn't do so easily. But you could do all of that and you'd still probably say, no, we're good, man, because we got Bradley. There's no real need to risk that. Now, LeBron, in a vacuum, again, not cap,

not talking about what you'd have to give up to get him or anything like that. But in their situation in terms of talent and ability to create plays and score, if I were LeBron, I take a swing at it. I'd say, sure. Let's rock out. And the history is different, right? The history is different than it is with KD. But I would definitely say, yeah, man, bring that.

All right. I guess this free agency is going to be more entertaining than we thought, Raja. But in the meantime, it's a Thursday episode, so you know what that means. Time for a real one of the week. Roger, I'm going to let you go first. I have my one of the week, but I'm going to let you go first. No, no, I'm going to let you go first. All right, fine.

I'll go first. If you want me to go first, if you want me to go first. You know who I'm going to go with? I'm going to go with JJ Watt. You know, shout out to you for joining CBS Sports as an analyst. You came to the dark side. It's going to be fun to see you on television, my guy. J.J. Watt.

Happy retirement. Let's see, man. You know who I'm going to go with me? Just because it's, you know, this is my world now. It's high school football centric here in South Florida. Teddy Bridgewater. Teddy Bridgewater is back in the community working at a local high school where he played and it was an all-time great.

And, you know, I checked them out yesterday. He was on Facebook and some conversations with some parents about the teaching that needs to take place and should be provided here in South Florida. And having pros like that come back and pour into their communities and help at the grassroots level and try to get some of these young men the proper tutelage so that their skill sets can match their athleticism is critical. And I applaud them for it. And so real one of the week, Teddy B.

Gang, gang. There you go, man. And that has been another edition of Ruins. A little housekeeping. We will not have a Monday show next week. So we'll see you guys next Thursday. Happy free agency. All the shits. Ah, ah. All right, man. Bye.